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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host. And if you're new and you

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Speaker 1: don't know what couch Talks is, let me tell you.

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Speaker 1: It is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you guys send to me

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Speaker 1: and you can send those to me via email at

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Speaker 1: Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. And before

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Speaker 1: we get into the episode, quick reminder that I like

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Speaker 1: to give all the time that although this podcast is

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Speaker 1: about therapy and I'm answering some questions for you, it

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Speaker 1: does not serve as a replacement or substitute for actual

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Speaker 1: mental health services, although we always hope that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is helpful in some way. Okay, so I hope everybody

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Speaker 1: is having the day they need to have. I personally

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Speaker 1: am having a really good day. I just finished a

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Speaker 1: full day of clients and I had some really cool

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Speaker 1: sessions today and it was one of those days where

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Speaker 1: it just felt good to be a therapist, which is

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Speaker 1: nice to acknowledge because those days are not every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, And that actually has something to do with

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Speaker 1: the question we're gonna answer today. And also speaking of

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Speaker 1: last week's question, same things. Sometimes there's some tough things,

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Speaker 1: it's some uncomfortable things, and some you know, just not

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Speaker 1: so great things being a therapist, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important, like any other job or any other thing,

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Speaker 1: to celebrate the winds and when things feel really good,

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Speaker 1: and today felt really good. When it comes to the question.

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Speaker 1: For those that are new, of course, reminder, I answer

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Speaker 1: one question a week and I keep them anonymous, so

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Speaker 1: I won't say your name, so you can feel like

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Speaker 1: you can send your question in and people are not

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Speaker 1: going to know that it's you unless you write very

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Speaker 1: obvious identifying information in the email, which in that case

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Speaker 1: I would just ask you maybe you don't do that.

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Speaker 1: So the question we have today is a follow up

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Speaker 1: to last week's question from couch Talks, and if you

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Speaker 1: didn't listen to last week's couch Talks, it was about

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Speaker 1: client termination and how to find closure when a client

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Speaker 1: terminates therapy. And what I mean by that is when

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Speaker 1: client ends therapy, and therapists can end therapy, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of times clients are the ones that do that,

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Speaker 1: and this specific listener, I wanted to know how to

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Speaker 1: kind of cope with that and find closure. I recorded

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Speaker 1: last week's episode before I got the context. I got

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Speaker 1: more contacts, so I want to talk about it again

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Speaker 1: because there's some more stuff that I think we can

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Speaker 1: talk about that might be helpful for anybody who is

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Speaker 1: processing the ending of a relationship. Specifically, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the client therapist relationship from the therapist perspective, but I

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Speaker 1: think when it comes to closure, you can apply this

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Speaker 1: stuff to any relationship. And if you're somebody who goes

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Speaker 1: to therapy, it's really cool to hear this kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff because you know what's your responsibility, what's not your responsibility,

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Speaker 1: and kind of um some healthy expect patients. So here

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Speaker 1: is the email that I got clarifying what this client

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Speaker 1: was asking. They said, I am referring to when clients

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Speaker 1: terminate with the therapist without a final session to process

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Speaker 1: feedback and experiences, I can provide more context. I had

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Speaker 1: a client who I was working with for approximately thirty

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Speaker 1: sessions and then asked to take a pause when asking

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Speaker 1: her for feedback. She responded along the lines of I

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Speaker 1: don't have any specific feedback. I've gotten what I needed

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Speaker 1: of therapy for the time being and resolved the initial

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Speaker 1: issues that got me into therapy. There are feelings of

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Speaker 1: not getting closure on my part. I would be interested

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Speaker 1: in hearing your thoughts on the following one. How do

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Speaker 1: you find a sense of closure when there's no final

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Speaker 1: conversation to process the ending of a therapist client relationship

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Speaker 1: to what is the best way to respond to an

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Speaker 1: email like this when a client wishes to discontinue therapy

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Speaker 1: for the time being. Three is there a way for

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Speaker 1: early therapists to communicate that therapy is not only used

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Speaker 1: to process negative thoughts and events, but also for maintenance

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Speaker 1: and to process positive thoughts and events. Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: first thing, if you didn't listen to the first Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks from last week, go listen to that because it's

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Speaker 1: going to give a lot more context just about termination

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Speaker 1: in general. And remember couch stocks episodes are pretty shure,

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Speaker 1: so you can listen to them back to back and

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Speaker 1: get the good information in a timely manner or I

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Speaker 1: try to do that. So for this email, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to break it down with the three specific questions, and

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Speaker 1: what I'll start with before I get into that is

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Speaker 1: something that I hope anybody who listens to this podcast

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Speaker 1: kind of walks into whatever I say with this idea.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not the end all be all for any questions,

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Speaker 1: specifically this one. I'm going to share my experience in

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Speaker 1: my approach. But there is not just one approach to anything.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to therapy. There's not a right approach,

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Speaker 1: although there are some wrong approaches, and I think there

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Speaker 1: can be multiple healthy ways to help process and and

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Speaker 1: move through this stuff. So here my ideas, knowing that

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Speaker 1: there are other ideas out there that might also suit you.

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Speaker 1: The first specific question was how do you find a

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Speaker 1: sense of closure when there are no final conversations to

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Speaker 1: process the ending of a therapist client relationship. So your

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Speaker 1: closure the client's closure. Obviously, this person, this listener is

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Speaker 1: talking about their closure, and that's really important to identify

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Speaker 1: before I go into this. I, for one, operate from

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Speaker 1: the standpoint that closure is what we make it. Just

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Speaker 1: like in romantic relationships, when we want closure, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of times we are actually looking for a

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Speaker 1: different outcome. So it's like when we go through breakups

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Speaker 1: and like I just want one more conversation to to

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Speaker 1: gain some closure. I just have some questions that I

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Speaker 1: need to answer it, And you know, I think we

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Speaker 1: can get closure with the information that we already have,

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes when we're in that space, we are wanting

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Speaker 1: to ask some of those questions because we want a

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Speaker 1: different answer, we want a different outcome, we want things

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Speaker 1: to be different, and instead of I want to be

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Speaker 1: able to actually just accept that this thing is over,

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Speaker 1: so we ask questions to gain answers when really we

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Speaker 1: have the answers and we just need to find acceptance.

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Speaker 1: So rather than closure, if it helps you, I might

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Speaker 1: encourage you to look at this, how do I find

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Speaker 1: acceptance that this relationship has ended? In my work? Here

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Speaker 1: is done? This email, the email that you got back

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Speaker 1: from your client really can be more than enough closure.

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Speaker 1: They got what they needed and really that's it. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes it gets pretty hard. I'm going to say this,

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Speaker 1: it's not so easy. And if if you're listening and

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Speaker 1: you aren't a therapist, you might be like, no, like

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Speaker 1: that's your job. Just it should be cut and dry.

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Speaker 1: But it can be pretty hard to remember sometimes that

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Speaker 1: therapy is not about us. And when we become a therapist,

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Speaker 1: we're literally saying except we might not be actually saying it,

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Speaker 1: so it's not literally, but we're saying, hey, I am

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Speaker 1: accepting the job that my feelings are second when it

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Speaker 1: comes to work, like that's part of our job, Like

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Speaker 1: we have to check them at the door, and we

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Speaker 1: have to really ask ourselves often, often, often, and often

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Speaker 1: Am I saying this because of me? I'm I saying

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Speaker 1: this for the client. And my one enclosure for me

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Speaker 1: and my one enclosure for the client is my closure

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Speaker 1: important to the client's healing process. Now, what I have

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Speaker 1: to remind myself is that it's not my client's responsibility

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Speaker 1: to help me feel better about anything, especially the work

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Speaker 1: that we do, whether we're doing a good job or

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Speaker 1: a bad job, And it's never our client's job to

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Speaker 1: take care of us. And when we start to feel

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Speaker 1: that way, that's a really good indicator that maybe I

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Speaker 1: need some supervision with this client in this case, in

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Speaker 1: what's going on with me, Maybe I need to do

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Speaker 1: some person of the therapist work, because if not, things

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Speaker 1: can get a little sticky and boundaries can get crossed,

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Speaker 1: and we might be doing harm when we're trying to

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Speaker 1: do good. And that's part of our ethical for a

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Speaker 1: license professional counselor, one of our ethical guidelines is do

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Speaker 1: no harm and do good. So I just want to

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Speaker 1: add in that acknowledging all of this is really really

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Speaker 1: a good thing, right, acknowledging when hey, I'm like dipping

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Speaker 1: my in the waters, that I'm not gonna be dipping

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Speaker 1: my toe in and everybody does that, It's really hard

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Speaker 1: to have such I mean, there's no such thing as

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Speaker 1: perfect strict emotional boundaries when it comes to the client

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Speaker 1: therapist relationship because it is a relationship, and emotions are

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Speaker 1: involved in relationships, and things can get a little bit strange.

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Speaker 1: So ask for feedback, ask for supervision, and like I

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Speaker 1: said in the episode from last week, talk to other

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Speaker 1: therapists that also are willing to admit that they struggle

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Speaker 1: with this stuff at times. So, again, going back to

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Speaker 1: the original question, closure can look a lot of different

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Speaker 1: ways with no termination session. There are clients that we

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Speaker 1: do that with, but there are also probably more often

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Speaker 1: than not, you don't get to have that, and you

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Speaker 1: don't get to have this really specific let's talk about

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Speaker 1: all the things we learned, and you say thank you

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Speaker 1: and I say you're welcome, and then we do this

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Speaker 1: song and dance thing, like we don't always really get

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Speaker 1: that and it's not always really necessary, And again it's

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Speaker 1: hard because when we see clients, we develop a relationship

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Speaker 1: with them, and we are humans, and so we have

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Speaker 1: to watch when that relations and ship bubbles over the edge.

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Speaker 1: And what's really important to also acknowledges. I can be

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Speaker 1: sad that a client's done with therapy and really excited

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Speaker 1: at the same time, I can be sad for myself

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Speaker 1: and then go process those emotions on my own and

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Speaker 1: be really excited for that therapist and not put my

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Speaker 1: desires for them on them, because if they're done with therapy,

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Speaker 1: that means they reached their goals, they did the work

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Speaker 1: they came here to do, and they are about to

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Speaker 1: go live the life that they want to live. Which

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Speaker 1: is another thing that I'm side tracking over here, but

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to remember as a therapist that we

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Speaker 1: have to stay on track with the goals of the client.

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Speaker 1: Where we might see, oh, your life would be better

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Speaker 1: if you did X y Z, or your life would

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Speaker 1: be better if you wanted X y Z. We have

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Speaker 1: to realize that we are not living their lives and

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Speaker 1: we're not looking through their lens. So we might have

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Speaker 1: an idea of some things that could be helpful, but

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to their desires, their wants, their needs.

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Speaker 1: They are in charge of identifying those and where helping

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Speaker 1: them work on their goals, not helping them get to

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Speaker 1: a place where they want the goals that we want

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Speaker 1: for them. Okay, so let's go onto the second specific question,

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Speaker 1: which was what is the best way to respond to

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Speaker 1: an email like this when a client wishes to discontinue

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Speaker 1: therapy for the time being. Like many things when it

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Speaker 1: comes to therapy, it depends. It depends often on a

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Speaker 1: client and where they are with their process. But if

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Speaker 1: a client has reached their goals and they want to

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Speaker 1: end therapy, I would probably respond something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of that's amazing. It's pretty cool to see a client

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Speaker 1: reach their goals, and I'm happy you got there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited for you. I want you to know

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Speaker 1: that my door is open and if something pops back up,

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Speaker 1: you are more than welcome to reach back out, and

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Speaker 1: if I have space, I will welcome you back into

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Speaker 1: my schedule with open arms. I make sure to let

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Speaker 1: clients know like sometimes therapy is weekly, and sometimes you

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Speaker 1: move into a space where you're going every other weekends.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's maintenance and you're going once a month, or

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just when something comes I go back to

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Speaker 1: therapy and I see a therapist for six sessions or

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Speaker 1: three sessions, and I move on. And so I might

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Speaker 1: say something along the lines in that email as well,

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Speaker 1: reminding like, remember, if there's ever anything you need to

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Speaker 1: come in for, even if it's just one session, if

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Speaker 1: I have space in my my schedule for that to happen,

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Speaker 1: please do not hesitate to reach out and make that

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Speaker 1: a thing, because I do think that sometimes clients think that,

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Speaker 1: like if I'm not going every week, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be able to go back. No. I have clients

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Speaker 1: that I haven't seen in years that come in and like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I just need to process this for three sessions and

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Speaker 1: then I'm out of here. And I think that's really

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Speaker 1: cool because you've given them the tools to go out

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Speaker 1: and live their life. And sometimes new stuff pops up

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Speaker 1: and we need a little check in, you know, just

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Speaker 1: like I mean, we go to we don't go to

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Speaker 1: the doctor every week. Some people do, but when we're

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Speaker 1: in the maintenance phase of our health, we don't go

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Speaker 1: over a week. We go get a physical once a year.

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Speaker 1: I really think we should be doing that with our

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Speaker 1: mental health. But you know, I don't make the rules.

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Speaker 1: Let's say a client just had a really hard session, Like,

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Speaker 1: let's another example of this, and I get the feeling

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Speaker 1: that they might be running away from something. I may

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Speaker 1: say something different than I said in earlier in that

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Speaker 1: first example, like, Hey, I know last week was really tough,

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Speaker 1: and I totally get wanting to take a break from

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Speaker 1: it all. I think it would be really helpful to

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Speaker 1: at least talk through your decision before we end your therapy.

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Speaker 1: If you're up for that, let me know, we will

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Speaker 1: make sure to get you scheduled. If that's not something

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Speaker 1: you're interested in right now, I will respect your decision

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Speaker 1: and just know that the doors always open for you

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Speaker 1: in the future if you change your mind. I think

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Speaker 1: that's really important as a therapist to respect your clients

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Speaker 1: boundaries that our clients put in place, right because one

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Speaker 1: of the things we do is teach them about boundaries

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Speaker 1: and how they're important, and um continue to empower them

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Speaker 1: to know what's right for them, versus putting in the

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Speaker 1: assumption that we know better and that they should rely

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Speaker 1: on what we know. And it goes back to me saying,

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Speaker 1: like we have to be really clear you're on what

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Speaker 1: are the client's goals versus what are the goals that

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Speaker 1: I want the client to have, and I have to

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Speaker 1: respect that those are the client's goals. Now, this also

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Speaker 1: depends on the acuity of the population that you're working

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Speaker 1: with or the specific client that you have. It might

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Speaker 1: be different based on the protocols that your place of

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Speaker 1: work has. Um If you're in private practice by yourself,

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Speaker 1: you can make your own rules, but that's not always

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Speaker 1: the case. Also, different rules and regulations based on the

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Speaker 1: state you're in with contact and how to terminate sessions. However,

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Speaker 1: I do want to say when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: differences in acuity of clients, if you ever afraid that

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Speaker 1: a client is going to hurt themselves or they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be safe, we have to air on that

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Speaker 1: side of caution and make that known. And also you

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Speaker 1: got to document all of this stuff, which hopefully you've

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Speaker 1: been taught that in school that documentation is your best friend.

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Speaker 1: To make sure that what you're doing is taking care

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Speaker 1: of the client and you have a good record of

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Speaker 1: that very important. You don't want to learn that the

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Speaker 1: hard way. And then the third question was is there

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Speaker 1: a way for early therapists to communicate that therapy is

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Speaker 1: not only used to process negative thoughts and events, but

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Speaker 1: also maintenance and a process positive thoughts and events. What

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Speaker 1: I do is, in the first session with any client,

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Speaker 1: I have a whole spiel, right, So, you talk about

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Speaker 1: the limits of confidentiality, you talk about your cancelation policy, you,

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Speaker 1: I mean, all of the things that you just want

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Speaker 1: to let the client know. I I give a talk

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Speaker 1: about how therapy often gets worse before it gets better,

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Speaker 1: and if you ever feel like it's getting worse and

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Speaker 1: you want to hit the road, I'd love to have

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Speaker 1: a conversation about that, because the last thing we want

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Speaker 1: is for us to rip a band aid out off

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Speaker 1: and for you to run away and have it open wound.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes just we need to take things slower, and

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about that versus and them altogether.

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Speaker 1: So in this conversation is a really good place to say, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: my goal is to help you work on the goals

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Speaker 1: that you come to me with, and when we work

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Speaker 1: on those goals, I want to igno knowledge that and

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Speaker 1: I want you to acknowledge that because that's a big

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Speaker 1: deal and you might develop new goals or you might

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Speaker 1: want to take a break from setting goals, or you

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Speaker 1: might just want to find a way to build upon

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Speaker 1: and solidify and maintain the goals that you've reached. When

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Speaker 1: that happens, the way that we do therapy might change.

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Speaker 1: And I mean that in the way how often we meet.

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Speaker 1: And so I want you to know that just because

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Speaker 1: you're not coming in here with the crisis, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that you no longer should want or even need

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Speaker 1: to come back into therapy. And therapy can look a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ways based on where you are in

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Speaker 1: your life. An easy way to say that is, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you might need to come here every single week for

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Speaker 1: a year, and then if you want to slow that down,

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Speaker 1: you're more than welcome to. And if you want to

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Speaker 1: take a break, you're more than welcome to. And once

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Speaker 1: you take that break and you want to come back,

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Speaker 1: you're more than welcome to. I want you to know

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Speaker 1: that you have a lot of autonomy and how often

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Speaker 1: you're coming to therapy, and we get to talk about

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Speaker 1: how you'll know when you need to maybe take a

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Speaker 1: step down, and how often we're working together. So you

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Speaker 1: get to create a little spiel for yourself that allows

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Speaker 1: the client to know, Hey, this is gonna look different

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Speaker 1: three years from now if you're still seeing me six months.

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Speaker 1: For now, it doesn't always have to look the same

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Speaker 1: way because we're working on goals that hopefully you'll reach.

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Speaker 1: So play around with some different ways to say that.

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Speaker 1: You can practice them on therapist friends. You can practice

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Speaker 1: that on therapists. You can practice that with clients and

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Speaker 1: see how it lands, and then allow clients to come

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Speaker 1: with you and check in. I used to never bring

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Speaker 1: up changing the pace of therapy with clients. I was

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Speaker 1: it was a rule that I had that, like, I

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Speaker 1: want clients to ask for what they need, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to say, hey, let's check in about this. However,

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Speaker 1: I sometimes think that with certain clients they need more

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Speaker 1: of a push, especially because we know some other stuff.

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Speaker 1: If they're people pleasing, if they have a hard time

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Speaker 1: with change, all of that. We might approach it and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I know that you have a hard time with change,

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Speaker 1: and we've talked about that, and I think that this

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Speaker 1: is a really good way for us to apply that.

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Speaker 1: And here in now situation, and it looks like you've

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Speaker 1: reached some of these goals, and when you come in

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Speaker 1: to talk, you're kind of talking about just some really

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Speaker 1: simple things that you know, and I know that you

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Speaker 1: have the ability to process and work through on your own,

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Speaker 1: and so I want to make sure that you are

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Speaker 1: in a place where you are still wanting to come

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Speaker 1: do that and you're getting something out of that, versus

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Speaker 1: you might be afraid to change the pace of how

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Speaker 1: therapies go in and then that turns into a whole

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Speaker 1: therapy session. It's really cool the things that therapists can

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Speaker 1: make therapy that we don't really think our therapy. There's

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Speaker 1: tons of things like when things happen in the here

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Speaker 1: and now in the relationship between the therapist and the client,

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Speaker 1: those can be whole sessions. We can work on those

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Speaker 1: experience for a whole session, maybe an interaction that we've had,

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Speaker 1: or a miscommunication that we have had, or just something

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Speaker 1: that happens within this dynamic. Those things are allowed to

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Speaker 1: be brought into the room and used his therapy. So

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Speaker 1: this is a way to do some really good therapy

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Speaker 1: about things that are happening right now in the room

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Speaker 1: versus out there. Because what I like to say is

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Speaker 1: the therapy room is really good practice for how you

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Speaker 1: want to go outside into the real world and live

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Speaker 1: your life in a really safe place to practice that.

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Speaker 1: So I hope that was helpful. Round two and I

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Speaker 1: love these questions. If there are any therapists out there

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Speaker 1: or any clients who have experienced this are like, oh

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Speaker 1: my therapist handled it this way or this happened. I'm

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Speaker 1: a therapist. Is how I do that? Send me an

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Speaker 1: email Catherine at You Need Therapy Podcast and we can

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Speaker 1: share those thoughts, because, like I said in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: there's not one way to do all of this. There's

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Speaker 1: a way that worked for me and my style, and

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Speaker 1: I'm open to learning more and shifting. And like I

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Speaker 1: just said, I used to do things one way and

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Speaker 1: I've learned that I need to be more flexible in that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm open to hearing what you guys do. So again,

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Speaker 1: I hope that was helpful and it continues to be helpful.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your question, thank you for clarifying your question,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you guys are having the day you

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Speaker 1: need to have. You can follow me on Instagram at

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Speaker 1: cat dot de fata and at You Need Therapy Podcast,

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Speaker 1: and again, email me all of your questions Katherine at

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast dot com. I will be back

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Speaker 1: with you guys on Monday