WEBVTT - Inside the MAGA Mindset with Astead Herndon 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:03.480 At this point, if you're a person who surrounded yourself 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.320 with Trump, you've blown through January sixth, You've blown through 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:07.440 and getting indicted. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:08.960 You've blown through a lot. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.640 The people around him now are much more and I 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:14.520 know this even from our reporters who deal with them 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.040 day to day, are much more unified than the first term, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.840 where he was cobbling together a team of rivals based 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:23.680 off of an election they did not think they were 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:24.080 going to win. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.160 Now that's much different. In this time around. They have 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.000 been planning about what they would do when they would 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:30.760 come back to Valor. 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.920 Hi. Everyone, I'm Kittie Couric and this is Next Question. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.720 Hi everyone, and welcome to this episode of Next Question. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.600 So if you want to know what Americans are really thinking, 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.400 not just what the polls are saying or what coastal 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.800 columnists are opining, you have to talk to voters face 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.640 to face, travel to where they are, and find places 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.440 where they are gained to talk. That is exactly what 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.240 Asteed Herndon does. He is a national politics reporter for 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.440 the New York Times who makes it his business to 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.440 hear what voters are thinking. How are they feeling about 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.640 Donald Trump? What are they thinking? About the Democratic Party today, 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.160 and all this made me wonder, how does the Stead 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.880 get so many people to open up to him and 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.399 tell him what they're thinking? A Steed Herndon, Great to 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:29.080 see you again. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:30.720 Great to see you also, thank you for having meus. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.640 Oh my gosh, we're so happy you're here. And I guess, Astead, 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.200 I feel like you have officially become the man on 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.360 the street, a correspondent for the New York Times, because 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.040 you spend so much of your time talking to real Americans, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.720 and I'm curious just about the logistics of that. A. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.840 How do you manage your schedule? How do you decide 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.360 where to go and who you're going to be able 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.360 to talk to? And are people willing to talk to you? 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.560 So I just asked you four questions in one. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.320 Just kind of where that lens came from. Like for me, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.280 since so much of my kind of entrance into national 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.520 political reporting was coming after the twenty sixteen election, it 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.840 felt as if there were things happening on the ground 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.639 and kind of outside more than it was being dictated 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.120 by parties in candidate It's actually remember when I was 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:17.760 in DC working for the Boston Globe. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.240 Is when Charlott's will happened. 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.000 I was there for thinking, I kind of want to 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.440 be out there, and I think that that's my best 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.600 use is like some kind of change that's happening in 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.320 this country. And frankly, I think in the experience of 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.440 the twenty sixteen election, feeling like not enough political journalism 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.079 had taught me about my neighbor and my communities and 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.240 these other kind of places and the diversity of the electorate. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.760 And so when I got the opportunity and come into 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.120 the Times to cover elections, I made it pretty clear 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.119 that like, that's where I thought my best use was 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.119 was in kind of telling stories from bottom up rather 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:49.880 than top down. 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:51.680 Why do you think there's such a disconnect. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.840 I think that, you know, for a lot of people, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.480 there was a lot of assumptions about the ways that 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.960 the country was changing that were coming from the parties. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.040 Right if we remember that Obama era, you know, the 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.120 idea that the country was having more immigrants, more black 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.560 and brown people were supposed to kind of inevitably move 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.080 it and this assume direction. And I just think some 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.720 of those assumptions really flatten the differences in those folks 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.120 and flatten the ways they were changing the country, and 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.680 so when I got the opportunity to go out there, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.640 it became really clear to me that, hey, some of 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.320 this stuff that people are assuming about these people and 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.160 about the way our politics would be sorted doesn't really 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.239 seem true. And so that really was informing me at 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.639 the time, and I really just get the most energy 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.760 from it too. You have a natural curiosity to those 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.640 folks and really feel like bringing people into the process 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.680 and bringing their voices into the process is really a 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.640 value add. But to your questionon of like how do 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.320 you decide, I think that's a real big onus I 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.880 put on myself. It's like, if our elections are going 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.040 to be decided mostly by me and be people who 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.680 don't trust the New York Times inherently or aren't following 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:54.600 the news all the time, you can't just go to 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.040 that traditional rally, You can't just go to the campaign 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.480 event because they're not there. And so we tried to 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.200 think of more untraditional events where we can find people 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.280 and bring politics to them. So I think of an 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.120 example of the Iowa State Fair a couple of years ago, 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:08.880 where you know, the traditional thing to do is to 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.680 follow the candidates. Now, as we had done multiple times before, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.360 but instead of doing that this time around, we went 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.640 to the Jason al Dean concert on the last day 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.120 of the Iowa State Fair because he had that song 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:20.960 try that in a small town that was kind of 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.520 going viral among Republicans, and we thought that asking people 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.760 there what the song meant to them and what kind 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.600 of royal identity meant to them was more fruitful than 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:31.760 just saying, you know, what do you think about this candidate? 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.280 What do you think about this campus? It's so smart, 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:34.000 That's so what I'm saying. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.560 We just try to think differently about where to go, 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.080 and it really I think gives different results. And so, 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.599 you know, I think of another example about we wanted 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.400 to cover masculinity and young men in this election, so 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.720 we went tailgating with rat boys in Madison and talk 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.440 to them about why they identified with Donald Trump, as 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.200 you know, on a day in which Charlie Kirk was 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.120 coming to campus and a lot of them were going 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.440 to that event. And so to your point, it really 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.960 asked us different questions. I think brings different people into 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.839 the political conversation. But I think you can always have 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.080 a problem of just finding two or three individual voices. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:07.920 So I always want to make sure we're lining up 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.240 with polling, we're lining up with the reporting that the 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.520 rest of the Times is doing too, because we just 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:13.919 have one person who seems like an outlier. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:15.320 That makes me a little nervous, you know. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.760 And so I think the real power of the work 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.760 is when you're giving the why behind a reason why 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.240 someone's voting, and then poling's telling you, you know, the 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.000 Matt aggregatet numbers, or you know, are folks like Maggie 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.320 Haraman Johnson Sma telling you what's happening on the inside. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.400 I think all of those things add up to a 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.119 better political picture. But we try to bring the voter 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.320 and the electorate, bring them into it because I kind 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.240 of feel like, particularly in this moment, they've been the 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.760 ones who have been most outside of that conversation. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.400 Is it hard for you to get people to talk 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.640 to you, to open up and be truthful with you. 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:48.640 I mean, you are from the New York Times that 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.080 for a lot of people in the middle of the 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.640 country or even you know, all over the country, for 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.520 a certain set of people, that's sort of the enemy 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.960 of the people, if you will. So proclaimed President Trump, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.560 but you know, you're a young black man, you're with 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.239 The New York Times, and you're talking to frat voice 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.040 at the University of wiscons about male anger. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.039 I'm out of Trump rally. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.919 I'm curious. So I'm one of those frat boys. How 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:13.719 do you approach me? 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.440 Well, the first thing I try to do is tell 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.240 you why I'm there, and be really open and kind 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.960 of vulnerable about the process, and tell you the reason 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.159 and framework that kind of brought us to it. And 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.440 oftentimes I think when you acknowledge people's concern like I 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.880 don't have a I don't think I'm owed anyone's time. 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.040 I don't think I'm owed anyone's voice or their beliefs. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.240 And I kind of acknowledge the ways in which I 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.039 understand it would be skeptical by it too. And so 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.120 if someone says I feel like the New York Times 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.120 doesn't represent voices like me or hasn't included those people, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.080 I don't really try to talk them out of it. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:47.919 I really just say what am I here for? 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.680 Otherwise it's but I'm here because I want to bring 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.200 your fore but your perspective to the forefront. So I 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.320 think going is really the thing that gives me the 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.240 best opportunity because you've already proven you care about out 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.159 bringing them in if you're there, right. And then the 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.000 other thing I think about is I don't really feel 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.480 the need, you know, I don't feel the need to 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.920 talk people out of their media distrust. I sometimes empathize 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.080 with their media distrust, you know. And it really wasn't 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.320 kind of trump bowlders or conservatives that taught me that. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.320 Back when I was a local crime reporter for the 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.400 Boston Globe and I was going to Roxbury and Dorchester 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.239 and those communities, they would look at a Globe reporter, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.360 even though I was all black or whatever, and say, 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.440 your paper only shows up here when there's a murder. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.040 You're not here consistently and all through that time. And 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.840 so I actually really empathized with that viewpoint. But I 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.960 would also argue, I remember then, saying, you're gonna want 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.600 an empathetic record of what happened today. You're gonna want 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.200 facts and accuracy about what is going on, and you 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.760 were going into the worst day of people's lives all 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.040 the time. And so that was really my training in 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.400 terms of learning how to try to create trust. But 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.480 I really think it's not like a science more so 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.760 than it is. I try to be honest, I try 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.960 to be understanding, listen, and I just link. And I 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.600 think audio helps too because I don't have to tell 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.800 them I'm just picking a quote here or there. Right, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.720 They get to be a more full person and they 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.960 hear that personhood reflected. And so we've had pretty good 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.760 returns with Republicans, honestly partially because I think they feel 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.320 more confident that they will be. 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:19.119 Heard in full. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.840 And so we almost to a person get responses saying 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.360 I like, did not expect this, but I really feel 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:29.640 like represented in what I heard. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.360 And that's to me the best part. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.840 Like I'm not there, particularly with voters to force accountability 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.800 or to indict their beliefs. I really am there to 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.920 get to clarity, and so once they're clear and kind 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.760 of honest, that's good for me. 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:43.200 You know. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.600 It's not like a politician interview or one of those 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.320 where you're trying to need accountability or you're fact checking 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.480 or things like that. With individual people, I'm just trying 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.160 to get them to be most honest and most open. 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.240 So what has been the most surprising thing for you? 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.760 Instead being on the ground in terms of your preconceived 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:05.559 no yep, of how Americans are feeling or even specifically 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.000 Trump voters and what you have found when you actually 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.160 go and speak to them faced dice. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.040 Yes, I would say, I guess I. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.120 You know, we talk a lot about polarization in our 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.240 country and the split between dn R and the ways 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.120 of which our electricate has been divided, and I think 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:26.040 my interpersonal experiences are more kind than people would expect 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.240 across the bore. It actually makes me think that the 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.560 polarization it might be more driven by system, might be 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.200 more driven by the fact that they have to sort 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.160 themselves in two parties, or jerry mandering has changed Congress 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.760 to mean that they don't have to look at it, 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:40.360 they don't. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.160 Have to Algorithms. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.439 Yeah, I like algorithms on the Internet, and it makes 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.959 me think more about the ways divisions imposed on us, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.560 because when I have those interpersonal interactions when I'm. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.319 Actually there, I very rarely have. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.560 The type of contentious moments They've happened every now and then, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.120 but I have them a lot less than people expect. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.400 And so that's one thing that really comes to mind 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.320 almost in meeting. But the other one was kind of corny, 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.160 but like I've gotten to go everywhere. I'm sure you've 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.120 had this experience too, where Like I've gotten to travel 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.640 so many places in the country too, and I just 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.719 think I've had a better appreciation of the diversity, the 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.360 beauty like things there are places like and think about 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.120 the Deep South and my kind of Chicago upbringing, like 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.120 I thought of it was kind of like you know, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.560 Slavery Land, to be honest, or like past and all 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.520 of this stuff. And I think that my experiences there 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.240 were so different than that perception that you can't really shake. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.440 It makes really clear how that was your own biases. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.760 And so I've had that a number of times in 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.080 a lot of places, and I feel like it really 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.160 just makes me feel like with intention and with thought, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.720 you can find connection wherever. And I know that's not 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.280 like fully a political answer, but I do think it 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.000 reminds me about the polarization question we face and how 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.760 much of that is like electorate that's divided, and how 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.560 much of that is a political system that's dividing an electorate. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.000 That's so interesting because I think, you know, I get 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.960 fed a lot of algorithms that reinforce sort of my 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:09.959 own point of view, and I often wonder like, how 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:16.960 can people so blindingly support Donald Trump at this moment 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:21.080 in time? And we'll talk about where we are as 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.560 a country in general, but do you go in like 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.560 how could you in any way? Or you never have 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.360 that frame of reference. It's always why do you? 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.640 Yeah, it's way more why do you? 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.319 And then go back to the Boston and local experience too, 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.439 because I remember when I would do those stories, you 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.920 would have to emotionally center yourself kind of before you 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.199 went in to that tough situation. And I kind of 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.760 still do that outside of the rally or outside of 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.839 the event. And I think whatever happens over the next 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.120 couple hours is not about me, you know, And I'm 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.800 really just trying to draw folks out, and I'm really 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.200 just trying to follow. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.600 My own curiosity, right. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.480 I think that, you know, I remember the complaints about 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.080 the diner stories, you know, Rump in the first term, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.080 where people are so sick of going back to people saying, oh, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:08.559 do you still support them? They would say I still 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.880 support him. They're like, why are we doing this? And 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.439 I guess, to me, those are just poorly executed. You're 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.000 not asking the right questions. Right, And I don't want 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.040 to let people get away with the same things that 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.840 we hear all the time. So because of that self 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.960 selecting media you're talking about, we hear the same phrases 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.160 over and over. Oh he's a businessman. Oh he says 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.960 what other people are thinking. And so I, you know, 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.240 me and the folks I work with were always pushing 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.760 past that. We're trying to say, what is it that 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.400 he's saying that others won't say, you know, like, what 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.320 is the actual issue? What is the moment that brought 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.400 you to him if you were skeptical before, Like, let's 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.160 get actual pieces of themselves that highlight that rather than 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.920 the kind of I think, more neutral phrases that folks 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:49.920 are used to getting to. And I think when you 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.840 break past that barrier, there is actual interesting stuff that 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.240 I can trust myself to just follow. And so if 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.719 I'm bored, I trusted everyone else is gonna be bored too, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.640 write and so in the own and I'm in that 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.360 conversation thinking well, what parts of this do I find 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.040 interesting and how do we get deeper there? But you know, 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.680 some of the experiences are wild, you know, like I was, that's. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.120 Your wildest experience if. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:14.800 We were talking Trump and Trump voters. 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.000 In twenty twenty, right after the election, when Biden was 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.240 finally announced the winner, I was in Wisconsin. Now I 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.199 remember telling to my editor because of these experiences I 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:25.920 had had, I've been talking to all these Trump voters 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.520 along the way, going specifically to like Maga places. In 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.120 twenty sixteen, when Trump won, I joined all these Trump 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.720 Facebook groups and prioritized them on my news feed so 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.000 I would live in kind of trumpness. 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.239 And so I was telling him, I'm pretty. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.600 Sure a group of these people will not recognize Joe 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.520 Biden as legitimate, that there's no way that they would 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.120 actually see him as which have been president. So he 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:50.839 was like, okay, follow up with some of them. And 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.040 so I go down to Texas and I'm with this family. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.240 I spend this day with this family. I go to 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.800 their church, and I went to this county specifically because 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.439 it had the biggest swing to Trump in the country. 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.319 And so I go to this church. I have spent 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.560 this whole day with this church. And then at the 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.880 end of the day we start talking about BLM. And 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.000 you know, at this point, they've been really kind to me. 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.720 They brought me into their home, they made some food, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.360 they gave me some lemonade, all this stuff. But at 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.840 this point they also start talking about if these people 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.440 come to their town, they're going to string them up. 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.600 One of them set the end word like, and all 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.880 of this stuff is happening at the same time the 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.600 kindness existed twenty minutes before and existed twenty minutes after. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.640 And so what I remember about the print version of 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.120 that story is you can't fully feel all of those 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.880 things changed, right. I included in the string them up quote, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.880 and that gets all this buzz and attention, and I 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.640 remember kind of feeling bad for them because we had 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.520 had this whole day that really just got swallowed up 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.760 in a very dramatic and bigoted thing that happened at 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.280 the end. But that's why I liked audio is because 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.640 I thought, I don't have to choose. You can actually 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.000 hear that whole interaction, and you recognize the new once 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.200 and complexity much more without me picking and choosing, and 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.760 so like, I don't want to act like I actually 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.040 felt bad, but I felt like it did not fully 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:13.040 represent my own experience there, and I wanted to be 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.040 in a place that can more do that three dimensional, 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:16.920 like storytelling. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:17.800 That's so interesting. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:19.080 Like there's a. 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.280 Couple others too, Like there's moments I trust people when 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.000 they told me like we don't want you here, I'm 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:24.800 like sure and I leave. You know, like I'm not 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.080 like fully unhinged, but in most ways I often think 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.080 like if you say, if you phrase it in the 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.440 right way, and if you present yourself in the right way. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:34.920 I've mostly had people come to you. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.160 Hi, everyone, It's Katie Couric. 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:48.680 You know. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.840 I'm always on the go between running my media company, 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.000 hosting my podcast, and of course covering the news. And 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.640 I know that to keep doing what I love, I 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.840 need to start caring for what it gets me there, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.720 my feet. That's why I decided to try the Good 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.840 Feet stores personalized arch support system. I met with a 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.880 Good Feet arch support specialist and after a personalized fitting, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.080 I left the store with my three step system designed 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.280 to improve comfort, balance and support. My feet, knees and 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.440 back are thanking me already. Visit goodfeet dot com to 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.040 learn more, find the nearest store, or book your own 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:40.680 free personalized fitting. You know, I'm thinking about a statistic 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.560 I read recently that fifty six percent of Republicans viewed 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:51.560 January sixth as legitimate political discourse now in the hands 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.080 of astet Herndon. How do you talk to a Trump 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:56.040 voter about that? 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.760 Well, one, if you are showing up to a Trump 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.480 voter and you don't live in conservative news, you're already 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:10.639 way behind. So already in those interactions, they can tell 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.719 if you actually read or listen or watch or the 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:16.600 world that they're in. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.600 And so do you have to immerse yourself in conservatives? 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.640 And that's why I say the thing about joining Trump 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.159 Facebook grooves, watching Fox News, following you know, kind of 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.360 maga influencers, like you have to actually know because there's 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.639 a separate stories that go viral, there's a separate news cycle. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.200 They have a different language. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.640 And so if you're in that in person interaction and 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.280 you're talking about things and you seem like this the 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.880 first time you're hearing about it, they know already that 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.520 you're already at a distance. And so I would say 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.480 the first thing I would do is follow what they 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:52.080 follow right to form those connections. And so story I'll 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.920 tell about this is I remember in the period after 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.360 the twenty twenty election, but before January. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.040 Sixth, so right after I did that Texas story. 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.720 I was a signed to go through the Georgia runoff, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.280 so I was in Georgia's a whole time, and I 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.600 remember like again me, someone who has done that work 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.440 has followed has nos. I remember thinking this is more 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:16.159 feral than usual, Like this isn't the usual conspiracy crowd. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.359 I'm at in Levanka Trump event and the Georgia suburbs, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.800 and these moms are talking to me about dominion voting machines, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:27.440 like something different happening here. And so because I live 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.879 in it, you can tell the moments that are outside 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.840 of it too, And I think it had me prepared 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.359 for something like the six I mean not prepared as 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.800 in I think those scenes were shocking to everybody. But 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.200 the possibility of violence, the possibility of illegitimacy of results, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.480 the possibility that they did not see the term democracy. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.520 They thought democracy was under threat too, just in a 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.919 completely different way. I knew all that stuff, and so 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.120 that's where following really helps. The other thing I do 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.000 is I'm not shocked. You know, there's usually a moment 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.760