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Speaker 1: At this point, if you're a person who surrounded yourself

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Speaker 1: with Trump, you've blown through January sixth, You've blown through

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Speaker 1: and getting indicted.

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Speaker 2: You've blown through a lot.

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Speaker 1: The people around him now are much more and I

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Speaker 1: know this even from our reporters who deal with them

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Speaker 1: day to day, are much more unified than the first term,

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Speaker 1: where he was cobbling together a team of rivals based

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Speaker 1: off of an election they did not think they were

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Speaker 1: going to win.

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Speaker 2: Now that's much different. In this time around. They have

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Speaker 2: been planning about what they would do when they would

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Speaker 2: come back to Valor.

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Speaker 3: Hi. Everyone, I'm Kittie Couric and this is Next Question.

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Speaker 3: Hi everyone, and welcome to this episode of Next Question.

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Speaker 3: So if you want to know what Americans are really thinking,

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Speaker 3: not just what the polls are saying or what coastal

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Speaker 3: columnists are opining, you have to talk to voters face

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Speaker 3: to face, travel to where they are, and find places

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Speaker 3: where they are gained to talk. That is exactly what

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Speaker 3: Asteed Herndon does. He is a national politics reporter for

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Speaker 3: the New York Times who makes it his business to

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Speaker 3: hear what voters are thinking. How are they feeling about

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump? What are they thinking? About the Democratic Party today,

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Speaker 3: and all this made me wonder, how does the Stead

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Speaker 3: get so many people to open up to him and

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Speaker 3: tell him what they're thinking? A Steed Herndon, Great to

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Speaker 3: see you again.

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Speaker 2: Great to see you also, thank you for having meus.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, we're so happy you're here. And I guess, Astead,

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Speaker 3: I feel like you have officially become the man on

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Speaker 3: the street, a correspondent for the New York Times, because

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Speaker 3: you spend so much of your time talking to real Americans,

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Speaker 3: and I'm curious just about the logistics of that. A.

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Speaker 3: How do you manage your schedule? How do you decide

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Speaker 3: where to go and who you're going to be able

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Speaker 3: to talk to? And are people willing to talk to you?

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Speaker 3: So I just asked you four questions in one.

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Speaker 1: Just kind of where that lens came from. Like for me,

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Speaker 1: since so much of my kind of entrance into national

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Speaker 1: political reporting was coming after the twenty sixteen election, it

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Speaker 1: felt as if there were things happening on the ground

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Speaker 1: and kind of outside more than it was being dictated

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Speaker 1: by parties in candidate It's actually remember when I was

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Speaker 1: in DC working for the Boston Globe.

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Speaker 2: Is when Charlott's will happened.

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Speaker 1: I was there for thinking, I kind of want to

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Speaker 1: be out there, and I think that that's my best

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Speaker 1: use is like some kind of change that's happening in

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Speaker 1: this country. And frankly, I think in the experience of

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Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen election, feeling like not enough political journalism

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Speaker 1: had taught me about my neighbor and my communities and

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Speaker 1: these other kind of places and the diversity of the electorate.

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Speaker 1: And so when I got the opportunity and come into

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Speaker 1: the Times to cover elections, I made it pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that like, that's where I thought my best use was

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Speaker 1: was in kind of telling stories from bottom up rather

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Speaker 1: than top down.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think there's such a disconnect.

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Speaker 1: I think that, you know, for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of assumptions about the ways that

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Speaker 1: the country was changing that were coming from the parties.

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Speaker 1: Right if we remember that Obama era, you know, the

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Speaker 1: idea that the country was having more immigrants, more black

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Speaker 1: and brown people were supposed to kind of inevitably move

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Speaker 1: it and this assume direction. And I just think some

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Speaker 1: of those assumptions really flatten the differences in those folks

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Speaker 1: and flatten the ways they were changing the country, and

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Speaker 1: so when I got the opportunity to go out there,

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Speaker 1: it became really clear to me that, hey, some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff that people are assuming about these people and

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Speaker 1: about the way our politics would be sorted doesn't really

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Speaker 1: seem true. And so that really was informing me at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I really just get the most energy

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Speaker 1: from it too. You have a natural curiosity to those

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Speaker 1: folks and really feel like bringing people into the process

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Speaker 1: and bringing their voices into the process is really a

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Speaker 1: value add. But to your questionon of like how do

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Speaker 1: you decide, I think that's a real big onus I

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Speaker 1: put on myself. It's like, if our elections are going

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Speaker 1: to be decided mostly by me and be people who

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Speaker 1: don't trust the New York Times inherently or aren't following

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Speaker 1: the news all the time, you can't just go to

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Speaker 1: that traditional rally, You can't just go to the campaign

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Speaker 1: event because they're not there. And so we tried to

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Speaker 1: think of more untraditional events where we can find people

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Speaker 1: and bring politics to them. So I think of an

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Speaker 1: example of the Iowa State Fair a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: where you know, the traditional thing to do is to

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Speaker 1: follow the candidates. Now, as we had done multiple times before,

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Speaker 1: but instead of doing that this time around, we went

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Speaker 1: to the Jason al Dean concert on the last day

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Speaker 1: of the Iowa State Fair because he had that song

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Speaker 1: try that in a small town that was kind of

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Speaker 1: going viral among Republicans, and we thought that asking people

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Speaker 1: there what the song meant to them and what kind

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Speaker 1: of royal identity meant to them was more fruitful than

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Speaker 1: just saying, you know, what do you think about this candidate?

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Speaker 2: What do you think about this campus? It's so smart,

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Speaker 2: That's so what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: We just try to think differently about where to go,

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Speaker 1: and it really I think gives different results. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think of another example about we wanted

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Speaker 1: to cover masculinity and young men in this election, so

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Speaker 1: we went tailgating with rat boys in Madison and talk

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Speaker 1: to them about why they identified with Donald Trump, as

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Speaker 1: you know, on a day in which Charlie Kirk was

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Speaker 1: coming to campus and a lot of them were going

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Speaker 1: to that event. And so to your point, it really

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Speaker 1: asked us different questions. I think brings different people into

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Speaker 1: the political conversation. But I think you can always have

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Speaker 1: a problem of just finding two or three individual voices.

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Speaker 1: So I always want to make sure we're lining up

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Speaker 1: with polling, we're lining up with the reporting that the

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Speaker 1: rest of the Times is doing too, because we just

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Speaker 1: have one person who seems like an outlier.

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Speaker 2: That makes me a little nervous, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so I think the real power of the work

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Speaker 1: is when you're giving the why behind a reason why

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Speaker 1: someone's voting, and then poling's telling you, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Matt aggregatet numbers, or you know, are folks like Maggie

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Speaker 1: Haraman Johnson Sma telling you what's happening on the inside.

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Speaker 1: I think all of those things add up to a

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Speaker 1: better political picture. But we try to bring the voter

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Speaker 1: and the electorate, bring them into it because I kind

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Speaker 1: of feel like, particularly in this moment, they've been the

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Speaker 1: ones who have been most outside of that conversation.

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Speaker 3: Is it hard for you to get people to talk

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Speaker 3: to you, to open up and be truthful with you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you are from the New York Times that

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Speaker 3: for a lot of people in the middle of the

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Speaker 3: country or even you know, all over the country, for

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Speaker 3: a certain set of people, that's sort of the enemy

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Speaker 3: of the people, if you will. So proclaimed President Trump,

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Speaker 3: but you know, you're a young black man, you're with

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Speaker 3: The New York Times, and you're talking to frat voice

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Speaker 3: at the University of wiscons about male anger.

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Speaker 2: I'm out of Trump rally.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious. So I'm one of those frat boys. How

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Speaker 3: do you approach me?

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Speaker 1: Well, the first thing I try to do is tell

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Speaker 1: you why I'm there, and be really open and kind

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Speaker 1: of vulnerable about the process, and tell you the reason

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Speaker 1: and framework that kind of brought us to it. And

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Speaker 1: oftentimes I think when you acknowledge people's concern like I

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Speaker 1: don't have a I don't think I'm owed anyone's time.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm owed anyone's voice or their beliefs.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of acknowledge the ways in which I

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Speaker 1: understand it would be skeptical by it too. And so

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Speaker 1: if someone says I feel like the New York Times

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Speaker 1: doesn't represent voices like me or hasn't included those people,

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Speaker 1: I don't really try to talk them out of it.

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Speaker 2: I really just say what am I here for?

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Speaker 1: Otherwise it's but I'm here because I want to bring

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Speaker 1: your fore but your perspective to the forefront. So I

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Speaker 1: think going is really the thing that gives me the

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Speaker 1: best opportunity because you've already proven you care about out

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Speaker 1: bringing them in if you're there, right. And then the

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Speaker 1: other thing I think about is I don't really feel

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Speaker 1: the need, you know, I don't feel the need to

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Speaker 1: talk people out of their media distrust. I sometimes empathize

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Speaker 1: with their media distrust, you know. And it really wasn't

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Speaker 1: kind of trump bowlders or conservatives that taught me that.

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Speaker 1: Back when I was a local crime reporter for the

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Speaker 1: Boston Globe and I was going to Roxbury and Dorchester

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Speaker 1: and those communities, they would look at a Globe reporter,

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Speaker 1: even though I was all black or whatever, and say,

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Speaker 1: your paper only shows up here when there's a murder.

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Speaker 1: You're not here consistently and all through that time. And

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Speaker 1: so I actually really empathized with that viewpoint. But I

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Speaker 1: would also argue, I remember then, saying, you're gonna want

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Speaker 1: an empathetic record of what happened today. You're gonna want

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Speaker 1: facts and accuracy about what is going on, and you

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Speaker 1: were going into the worst day of people's lives all

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Speaker 1: the time. And so that was really my training in

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Speaker 1: terms of learning how to try to create trust. But

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Speaker 1: I really think it's not like a science more so

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Speaker 1: than it is. I try to be honest, I try

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Speaker 1: to be understanding, listen, and I just link. And I

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Speaker 1: think audio helps too because I don't have to tell

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Speaker 1: them I'm just picking a quote here or there. Right,

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Speaker 1: They get to be a more full person and they

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Speaker 1: hear that personhood reflected. And so we've had pretty good

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Speaker 1: returns with Republicans, honestly partially because I think they feel

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Speaker 1: more confident that they will be.

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Speaker 2: Heard in full.

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Speaker 1: And so we almost to a person get responses saying

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Speaker 1: I like, did not expect this, but I really feel

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Speaker 1: like represented in what I heard.

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Speaker 2: And that's to me the best part.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not there, particularly with voters to force accountability

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Speaker 1: or to indict their beliefs. I really am there to

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Speaker 1: get to clarity, and so once they're clear and kind

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Speaker 1: of honest, that's good for me.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a politician interview or one of those

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Speaker 1: where you're trying to need accountability or you're fact checking

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Speaker 1: or things like that. With individual people, I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to get them to be most honest and most open.

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Speaker 3: So what has been the most surprising thing for you?

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Speaker 3: Instead being on the ground in terms of your preconceived

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Speaker 3: no yep, of how Americans are feeling or even specifically

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Speaker 3: Trump voters and what you have found when you actually

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Speaker 3: go and speak to them faced dice.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I would say, I guess I.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot about polarization in our

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Speaker 1: country and the split between dn R and the ways

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Speaker 1: of which our electricate has been divided, and I think

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Speaker 1: my interpersonal experiences are more kind than people would expect

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Speaker 1: across the bore. It actually makes me think that the

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Speaker 1: polarization it might be more driven by system, might be

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Speaker 1: more driven by the fact that they have to sort

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Speaker 1: themselves in two parties, or jerry mandering has changed Congress

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Speaker 1: to mean that they don't have to look at it,

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Speaker 1: they don't.

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Speaker 3: Have to Algorithms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like algorithms on the Internet, and it makes

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Speaker 1: me think more about the ways divisions imposed on us,

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Speaker 1: because when I have those interpersonal interactions when I'm.

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Speaker 2: Actually there, I very rarely have.

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Speaker 1: The type of contentious moments They've happened every now and then,

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Speaker 1: but I have them a lot less than people expect.

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Speaker 1: And so that's one thing that really comes to mind

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Speaker 1: almost in meeting. But the other one was kind of corny,

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Speaker 1: but like I've gotten to go everywhere. I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: had this experience too, where Like I've gotten to travel

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Speaker 1: so many places in the country too, and I just

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Speaker 1: think I've had a better appreciation of the diversity, the

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Speaker 1: beauty like things there are places like and think about

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Speaker 1: the Deep South and my kind of Chicago upbringing, like

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Speaker 1: I thought of it was kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: Slavery Land, to be honest, or like past and all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. And I think that my experiences there

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Speaker 1: were so different than that perception that you can't really shake.

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Speaker 1: It makes really clear how that was your own biases.

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Speaker 1: And so I've had that a number of times in

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Speaker 1: a lot of places, and I feel like it really

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Speaker 1: just makes me feel like with intention and with thought,

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Speaker 1: you can find connection wherever. And I know that's not

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Speaker 1: like fully a political answer, but I do think it

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Speaker 1: reminds me about the polarization question we face and how

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Speaker 1: much of that is like electorate that's divided, and how

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Speaker 1: much of that is a political system that's dividing an electorate.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting because I think, you know, I get

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Speaker 3: fed a lot of algorithms that reinforce sort of my

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Speaker 3: own point of view, and I often wonder like, how

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Speaker 3: can people so blindingly support Donald Trump at this moment

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Speaker 3: in time? And we'll talk about where we are as

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Speaker 3: a country in general, but do you go in like

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Speaker 3: how could you in any way? Or you never have

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Speaker 3: that frame of reference. It's always why do you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's way more why do you?

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Speaker 1: And then go back to the Boston and local experience too,

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Speaker 1: because I remember when I would do those stories, you

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Speaker 1: would have to emotionally center yourself kind of before you

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Speaker 1: went in to that tough situation. And I kind of

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Speaker 1: still do that outside of the rally or outside of

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Speaker 1: the event. And I think whatever happens over the next

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Speaker 1: couple hours is not about me, you know, And I'm

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Speaker 1: really just trying to draw folks out, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: just trying to follow.

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Speaker 2: My own curiosity, right.

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Speaker 1: I think that, you know, I remember the complaints about

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Speaker 1: the diner stories, you know, Rump in the first term,

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Speaker 1: where people are so sick of going back to people saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: do you still support them? They would say I still

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Speaker 1: support him. They're like, why are we doing this? And

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Speaker 1: I guess, to me, those are just poorly executed. You're

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Speaker 1: not asking the right questions. Right, And I don't want

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Speaker 1: to let people get away with the same things that

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Speaker 1: we hear all the time. So because of that self

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Speaker 1: selecting media you're talking about, we hear the same phrases

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Speaker 1: over and over. Oh he's a businessman. Oh he says

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Speaker 1: what other people are thinking. And so I, you know,

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Speaker 1: me and the folks I work with were always pushing

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Speaker 1: past that. We're trying to say, what is it that

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Speaker 1: he's saying that others won't say, you know, like, what

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Speaker 1: is the actual issue? What is the moment that brought

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Speaker 1: you to him if you were skeptical before, Like, let's

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Speaker 1: get actual pieces of themselves that highlight that rather than

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Speaker 1: the kind of I think, more neutral phrases that folks

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Speaker 1: are used to getting to. And I think when you

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Speaker 1: break past that barrier, there is actual interesting stuff that

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Speaker 1: I can trust myself to just follow. And so if

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Speaker 1: I'm bored, I trusted everyone else is gonna be bored too,

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Speaker 1: write and so in the own and I'm in that

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Speaker 1: conversation thinking well, what parts of this do I find

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Speaker 1: interesting and how do we get deeper there? But you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the experiences are wild, you know, like I was, that's.

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Speaker 3: Your wildest experience if.

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Speaker 2: We were talking Trump and Trump voters.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, right after the election, when Biden was

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Speaker 1: finally announced the winner, I was in Wisconsin. Now I

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Speaker 1: remember telling to my editor because of these experiences I

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Speaker 1: had had, I've been talking to all these Trump voters

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Speaker 1: along the way, going specifically to like Maga places. In

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, when Trump won, I joined all these Trump

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Speaker 1: Facebook groups and prioritized them on my news feed so

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Speaker 1: I would live in kind of trumpness.

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Speaker 2: And so I was telling him, I'm pretty.

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Speaker 1: Sure a group of these people will not recognize Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden as legitimate, that there's no way that they would

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Speaker 1: actually see him as which have been president. So he

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, follow up with some of them. And

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Speaker 1: so I go down to Texas and I'm with this family.

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Speaker 1: I spend this day with this family. I go to

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Speaker 1: their church, and I went to this county specifically because

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Speaker 1: it had the biggest swing to Trump in the country.

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Speaker 1: And so I go to this church. I have spent

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Speaker 1: this whole day with this church. And then at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day we start talking about BLM. And

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Speaker 1: you know, at this point, they've been really kind to me.

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Speaker 1: They brought me into their home, they made some food,

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Speaker 1: they gave me some lemonade, all this stuff. But at

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Speaker 1: this point they also start talking about if these people

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Speaker 1: come to their town, they're going to string them up.

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Speaker 1: One of them set the end word like, and all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff is happening at the same time the

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Speaker 1: kindness existed twenty minutes before and existed twenty minutes after.

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Speaker 1: And so what I remember about the print version of

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Speaker 1: that story is you can't fully feel all of those

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Speaker 1: things changed, right. I included in the string them up quote,

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Speaker 1: and that gets all this buzz and attention, and I

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Speaker 1: remember kind of feeling bad for them because we had

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Speaker 1: had this whole day that really just got swallowed up

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Speaker 1: in a very dramatic and bigoted thing that happened at

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Speaker 1: the end. But that's why I liked audio is because

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Speaker 1: I thought, I don't have to choose. You can actually

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Speaker 1: hear that whole interaction, and you recognize the new once

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Speaker 1: and complexity much more without me picking and choosing, and

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Speaker 1: so like, I don't want to act like I actually

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Speaker 1: felt bad, but I felt like it did not fully

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Speaker 1: represent my own experience there, and I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: in a place that can more do that three dimensional,

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Speaker 1: like storytelling.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Like there's a.

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Speaker 1: Couple others too, Like there's moments I trust people when

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Speaker 1: they told me like we don't want you here, I'm

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Speaker 1: like sure and I leave. You know, like I'm not

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Speaker 1: like fully unhinged, but in most ways I often think

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Speaker 1: like if you say, if you phrase it in the

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Speaker 1: right way, and if you present yourself in the right way.

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Speaker 2: I've mostly had people come to you.

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Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, It's Katie Couric.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I'm always on the go between running my media company,

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Speaker 3: hosting my podcast, and of course covering the news. And

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Speaker 3: I know that to keep doing what I love, I

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Speaker 3: need to start caring for what it gets me there,

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Speaker 3: my feet. That's why I decided to try the Good

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Speaker 3: Feet stores personalized arch support system. I met with a

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Speaker 3: Good Feet arch support specialist and after a personalized fitting,

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Speaker 3: I left the store with my three step system designed

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Speaker 3: to improve comfort, balance and support. My feet, knees and

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Speaker 3: back are thanking me already. Visit goodfeet dot com to

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Speaker 3: learn more, find the nearest store, or book your own

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Speaker 3: free personalized fitting. You know, I'm thinking about a statistic

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Speaker 3: I read recently that fifty six percent of Republicans viewed

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Speaker 3: January sixth as legitimate political discourse now in the hands

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Speaker 3: of astet Herndon. How do you talk to a Trump

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Speaker 3: voter about that?

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Speaker 1: Well, one, if you are showing up to a Trump

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Speaker 1: voter and you don't live in conservative news, you're already

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Speaker 1: way behind. So already in those interactions, they can tell

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Speaker 1: if you actually read or listen or watch or the

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Speaker 1: world that they're in.

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Speaker 3: And so do you have to immerse yourself in conservatives?

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Speaker 1: And that's why I say the thing about joining Trump

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Speaker 1: Facebook grooves, watching Fox News, following you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: maga influencers, like you have to actually know because there's

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Speaker 1: a separate stories that go viral, there's a separate news cycle.

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Speaker 2: They have a different language.

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Speaker 1: And so if you're in that in person interaction and

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Speaker 1: you're talking about things and you seem like this the

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Speaker 1: first time you're hearing about it, they know already that

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Speaker 1: you're already at a distance. And so I would say

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Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is follow what they

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Speaker 1: follow right to form those connections. And so story I'll

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Speaker 1: tell about this is I remember in the period after

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election, but before January.

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Speaker 2: Sixth, so right after I did that Texas story.

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Speaker 1: I was a signed to go through the Georgia runoff,

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Speaker 1: so I was in Georgia's a whole time, and I

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Speaker 1: remember like again me, someone who has done that work

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Speaker 1: has followed has nos. I remember thinking this is more

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Speaker 1: feral than usual, Like this isn't the usual conspiracy crowd.

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Speaker 1: I'm at in Levanka Trump event and the Georgia suburbs,

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Speaker 1: and these moms are talking to me about dominion voting machines,

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Speaker 1: like something different happening here. And so because I live

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Speaker 1: in it, you can tell the moments that are outside

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Speaker 1: of it too, And I think it had me prepared

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Speaker 1: for something like the six I mean not prepared as

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Speaker 1: in I think those scenes were shocking to everybody. But

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Speaker 1: the possibility of violence, the possibility of illegitimacy of results,

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Speaker 1: the possibility that they did not see the term democracy.

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Speaker 1: They thought democracy was under threat too, just in a

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Speaker 1: completely different way. I knew all that stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: that's where following really helps. The other thing I do

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Speaker 1: is I'm not shocked. You know, there's usually a moment

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Speaker 1: when I'm there they push you and are expecting you

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Speaker 1: to react, and are pressing a button almost intentionally, and

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Speaker 1: I've always found act like look at the skot like

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Speaker 1: act like nothing's happened, and it really helps you get

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Speaker 1: over sample I would say about this, I was in

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Speaker 1: northern Arizona and I was at what was called trump Stock,

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Speaker 1: which was just like Trump fans Woodstock, which like had

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people there who are.

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Speaker 3: I never.

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Speaker 1: That what means you were living like a really fringe

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Speaker 1: space like this wasn't even like the normal influencers. These

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Speaker 1: are the folks that like can't even get on Fox News.

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Speaker 1: And I was trying that. I was doing the story

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Speaker 1: about really about conspiracy. And what I do when I

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Speaker 1: get there is I don't want to be secret, so

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Speaker 1: I wear my badge openly.

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Speaker 2: I go to the organizer first.

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Speaker 1: I try to win them over and tell them, you know,

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Speaker 1: here's what I'm here to do. And I remember when

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Speaker 1: I got there, the organizer says, okay, let's talk like

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Speaker 1: it comes in since down and the first thing that

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Speaker 1: is put his gun on the table, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I just keep pushing and just keep going. And so

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Speaker 1: my experience there's that's a dramatic version of that, but

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Speaker 1: people do that verbally and kind of rhetorically all the time,

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Speaker 1: or they'll mention your own blackness, or they'll mention something else,

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Speaker 1: and I'm saying, blow through it. And so those are

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Speaker 1: my strategies. And there's little ones too, Like crowds are bad.

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Speaker 1: So if you're at a rally, find them one on

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Speaker 1: one when they're going to get a concession or when

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Speaker 1: or when you can talk to them directly. If you

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Speaker 1: talk to them in the line and the whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of people start watching, you're going to be a spectacle.

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Speaker 1: And so like there's little things you learn too. But

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Speaker 1: really I just think like I care. Like sometimes when

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Speaker 1: people ask me, how does this work, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you don't care, well it won't work, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so I have a lot of identities, you know.

439
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 1: I'm also from the Newst. I grew up in a

440
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: fairly religious family. Like some of the stuff they say

441
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: it those things feel familiar, you know. I tell people

442
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: that the Trump rally often feels sec football game or

443
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: megachurch just as much as it does political rally. And

444
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: those things aren't shocking to me. Those are things I

445
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: have been to and you know, And so I guess

446
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: I would just say an aggregate like I try not

447
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 1: to make it feel as othering as they expect you

448
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: to make them right.

449
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: Right.

450
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: They expect the black person at the New York Times

451
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: to be treating them like a kind of experiment, right,

452
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: And so if you are the opposite of that, I

453
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: think it helps the interaction.

454
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: So in aggregate, what have you learned about Trump voters?

455
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: And I want to talk to you then about how

456
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 3: things have changed.

457
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: If they have that has changed that definitions.

458
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 3: Okay, well then then let's talk about that. I know

459
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: that you took a break after the election just to

460
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: kind of I don't know, get.

461
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: Live, yeah, like give my life back.

462
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and and sort of stabilize everything. And you

463
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 3: jump back into the fray sort of around the time

464
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: that Trump announced so called Liberation Day, which you see

465
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 3: is a real threshold moment of his second term. So

466
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 3: tell me what propelled you to hit the road again

467
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 3: at that moment in time.

468
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: Well, you need.

469
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: Moments that cut through. And so sometimes things are major

470
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,439
Speaker 1: or big policy, but they haven't necessarily gotten to the

471
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: type of news on interested voter that I'm sometimes talking

472
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: about here or someone who's not following get day to day.

473
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: I think that's particularly true in a year like this,

474
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: but there's not a decision on their hands, right, there's

475
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: not some imminent choice for these folks.

476
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 2: But tariffs.

477
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: And specifically because we heard so much about inflation going in,

478
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: we heard so much about the price of eggs, the

479
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: price of egg over the last couple of years, I thought,

480
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: this is one of the things. And I remember even

481
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: last year asking folks about the possibility of tariffs, and

482
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: they would just assume he wouldn't do it.

483
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 2: You know, there was a lot of you know.

484
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: Projection or I think nostalgia about first term that was

485
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: informing folks vote, and it was much less about the

486
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: solutions he was saying. And so even when we would

487
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: ask people, hey, on that stage he said he's gonna,

488
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, do this, he says he's gonna get tariffs,

489
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: like people just kind of well, he didn't do that

490
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: last time and or things turned out fine then. And

491
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: so now that we had had that kind of moment,

492
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: it felt to me like, oh, I can go back

493
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: to literally these same people and reference to conversations that

494
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: we had now that it's become a bigger reality. And

495
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: what we found really matched up with you know, what

496
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: the times number said and other things which is that

497
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: there's certainly a causal relationship. The White House is created

498
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: with this chaos with these tariffs and people feeling like

499
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: he's not focusing on bringing prices down and obviously could

500
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: bring it the other way.

501
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: And that is own that.

502
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: You know, I saw Trump say the other day the

503
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 1: good parts of the economy or mine the bad parts

504
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: are Joe Biden's nobody believes that right, Like, it was

505
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: very clear even to those voters, even the people who

506
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: voted for him, that whatever happens next, and you know,

507
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: in the White House's version that's a return of jobs,

508
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: and every economist version that's not, and that's the possibility

509
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: of raised prices or even the recession. But whatever happens

510
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: next is his fault because he has created that type

511
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: of relationship, and the voters were expressing that, they were

512
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: expressing fear of what's happening next because of the tariffs.

513
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: And I think the way they were administered also reminded

514
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: folks of the same problems of Trump administration. Number one

515
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: was just bad governance, but lack of expertise increased chaos

516
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: in general. And so I think it was not only

517
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: the reality but also how it was done really seemed

518
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 1: and even in going back to our people really seemed

519
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: to rub them the wrong way.

520
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: Now that's different than saying I regret my vote.

521
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: Right because we talked to I think about twenty ish

522
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: people who we had talked to before. A bunch of

523
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: those folks expressed disappointment about tariffs and about the presence

524
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: of Elon Musk were the things that came up the moment.

525
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: The the co presidency of it all was kind of

526
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: surprising the folks, but very few of them said that

527
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: meant they wished Kamala Harris was president. And so that's

528
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: a very distinct answer, right. We see this in recent

529
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: favorability numbers too, like Donald Trump has had a decrease

530
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: approval rating, but the Democrats is worse, right, And so

531
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: that was really reflected and those type of undecided we

532
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: were going back to, they were disappointed in Donald Trump,

533
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: and I think that could have a big effect in

534
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: things like midterms and the like going forward. But that's

535
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: much different than saying they regretted voting for Donald Trump,

536
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: because they did not.

537
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: At this point, for now, it seems as if they're

538
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: giving him some grace. You know, some people you talk

539
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: to give him credit for trying right, And so there

540
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 3: seems to be this level of forgiveness for Donald Trump

541
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: that might not be applicable to anyone else.

542
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: Anyone else, any other Republican, even we've seen Republicans try

543
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: to do the same thing and then not really work out.

544
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: How do you explain that some of that is a

545
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: literal brand. I mean, I will say this.

546
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: We were at a plant in Michigan talking to auto

547
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: workers who were affected by tariffs directly. Stilantis had closed

548
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: jobs early a couple weeks earlier, citing tears, and we

549
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: were asking some of those people about, Okay, is this

550
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's fault?

551
00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: And you would hear.

552
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: Over and over, ah, he's negotiated art of the deal,

553
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: like you would hear some leeway even if they were

554
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: kind of unnerved. And I remember the White House Press

555
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: secretary saying a couple days later, like, oh, it's just

556
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: art of the deal, and a lot of the journalists

557
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: were like laughing and like kind of mocking it. And

558
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: it is ridiculous, but it's true, Like he has a

559
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: brand that is different than anybody else.

560
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: It's specifically on this.

561
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: Issue that inoculates him from criticism, that.

562
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Inoculates him from some criticism or creates a runway or

563
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: an expectation of chaos that's built into him that's different

564
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: than other politicians. And so I would definitely say that

565
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: part of that comes through. But I would also say

566
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: the thing that came up at that plant was he

567
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: had named a real problem that Democrats had not named.

568
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: They were saying that it is true that, you know,

569
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: their jobs have gone overseas. It is true that they

570
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: feel like globalization has kind of left them behind. And

571
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: so the reason you have the Michigan governor, you know,

572
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: saying tariff's are tool, or other people not fully rejecting

573
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: them outright, is because, particularly in states that Democrats have

574
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: lost in let's say Michigan or Ohio's or Wisconsins of

575
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: the world, those are thought of as helpful for American

576
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: jobs because they feel as if in the last twenty

577
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,239
Speaker 1: years no one's really been talking about it, and that

578
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: the parties had a kind of shared agreement before Donald

579
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Trump came around, that this type of globalization just that

580
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: their jobs are just the you know, a casualty in

581
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: terms of the larger efforts of globalization. And so I

582
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: would say, is like that was true even from the

583
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: Democrats we talked to as the plan people didn't vote

584
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump at all, say oh yeah, but he

585
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: totally is talking about a real thing that I wish

586
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: even our party talked about more. And so I think

587
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: those are the two things that give him cover for now, yeah,

588
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: cover for now, the brand, and then the fact that

589
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: he is naming a problem that some folks agree with.

590
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: But I would just kind of caution the cover because

591
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: I don't think that insulates him from a real raisin

592
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: prisis right, or some tangible inflation that comes because of

593
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: the tariffs. And I don't think that insulates Republicans from

594
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 1: know what could be a bad midterms in a year

595
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: or so. But I just think it's not as black

596
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 1: and white as sometimes it's presented as. And the reason

597
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: the White House has some level of confidence here, and

598
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: the reason why you know uaw President is not all

599
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: against terrors is because even among the Democrats there, the

600
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: non Trump voter there, there's a recognition that Donald Trump

601
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: has named a problem they wish the party named.

602
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,239
Speaker 3: Right. There's a difference, though, between naming a problem and

603
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: executing a solution, And I think there are many people

604
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: who felt, yes, illegal immigration was a problem in this country,

605
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: but we may not want mass deportation without due process.

606
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: And it's the biggest difference between elections and government is

607
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: people will vote on the problem, but then that can

608
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: be completely distinct from what they say the solution is

609
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: and what you're going to realize in the next year. Right,

610
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: And so I think so many voters we were talking to,

611
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: we're not thinking about solutions. They were thinking about their

612
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: distas for the state quo and the Biden administration and

613
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump had kind of named that stuff, but

614
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it was ever a full endorsement of

615
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: the MAGA agenda of Project twenty twenty five, of the

616
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: solutions he was presenting on economy, immigration and things like that.

617
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious, did you hear that from voters or

618
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: are you hearing that astead Like, yes, this was a problem,

619
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: but boy, we don't really think this is the best

620
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 3: way to approach it. You know, whether it's the deportation

621
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: as I mentioned, without due process, or whether it's Elon

622
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: Musk wielding a chainsaw at s pack and saying rip

623
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: to you know, USAID, or whatever it was, whether it's

624
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: doing these tariffs and they're on they're off, they're on,

625
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 3: they're off. Well, that's what I said, doach with Elon Musk. Yes,

626
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: what I was referring to.

627
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: That's totally we heard that on those issues.

628
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: Really clearly was was yeah, there's a part of the

629
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: what we talked about. But they did not see teriffs

630
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: as a solution. They did not see Elon Musk kind

631
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: of running, you know, getting Social Security passwords and giving

632
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: it to his teenage minions as a solution, right, or

633
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: I think the do process and like specifically how defiance

634
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: of courts specifically on immigration, like all of that stuff came.

635
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: Up, and so does it bother voters.

636
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: I think, I guess that's why I go back to

637
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: folks not having a decision on their hands, Like it

638
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: was expressed as not ideal, but only people who live

639
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: in the day to day of politics think about that

640
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: as like that's like regret, you know what I'm saying.

641
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: Like it's like a show you watch but you don't

642
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: like an individual episode. It's not like it's like for

643
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: some of these people, I think they're still gonna keep

644
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: watching the show and they just didn't like they just

645
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: don't like kind of what's happening, right, now they're still

646
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: waiting for other shoes to drop, and so I don't think,

647
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, I get what I'm saying, like people have,

648
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, like there was disappointment that was expressed, but

649
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: it's not as if there was a channel for where

650
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: to put it, and so they.

651
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: Weren't dealing with it. Really.

652
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, it seems an idea, or like yeah,

653
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: it seems chaotic, you know, and moving on with their day.

654
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

655
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: So when do you think or do you think that

656
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: these independent voters and even sort of people who didn't

657
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 3: like the alternative and didn't want to support Kamala Harris,

658
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 3: do you think there will be a turning point? For example,

659
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: we haven't really felt the full impact. Yeah, I think

660
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: of these tariffs yet, and I think in the next

661
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: couple of months it's going to start trickling down to

662
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: the consumer. And do you think then that the runway

663
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: that you describe will continue for Donald Trump or will

664
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: it come to a screeching halt.

665
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: No, I think you're identifying the key point.

666
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: The tangible impact of inflation is what matters here, at

667
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: least in what these folks expressed. They were not saying

668
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: that they're willing to not be able to like feed

669
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: folks in the name of Donald Trump, right, It's and

670
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: I think that's what turns it from just something that's

671
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: happening there to something that's affecting people's day to day life.

672
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: And so if we see that tangible impact of inflation,

673
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: I think we'll see folks And I think think the

674
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Biden administration is actually a helpful correlary to this because

675
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: it colors everything. Once that kind of pocketbook issue they

676
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: lose faith on. So I think when the Biden administration

677
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: was telling people that inflation was not that bad in

678
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, rather than acknowledging people's concerns about it,

679
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: that impacted the way they viewed immigration, That impacted the

680
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: way they viewed Ukrainian A. That impact, you know, it

681
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: impacts everything else. Once they feel like you're not responding to.

682
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: The direct issue.

683
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: It is very I think the White House is careening

684
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: towards a similar problem. I would say the difference, though,

685
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: is this White House cares a lot less about public sentiment.

686
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's.

687
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: Much more a at least you know, my sense of

688
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: talking to them going into election and my sense of

689
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: the reporting from folks I know who talk to them

690
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 1: more on insight now. I mean, this is a project

691
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: somewhat about insulating yourself from day to day public reaction,

692
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: the expansion of executive authority, the reshaping of government. Like

693
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of an effort to not have to calibrate

694
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: yourself to that median voter. I remember asking a person

695
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: who's not in the White House, but it's close to

696
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: the White House, like a couple months ago, like, aren't

697
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: you all kind of you know, this stuff doesn't seem

698
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: that popular, like, you know, And their answer was, what happens?

699
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: Like we you know, there's only like what thirteen competitive

700
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: house seats. They're pretty well set in the Senate, you know,

701
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: like and actually, really I thought was really insightful because

702
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: the parameters, and this might go back to the political system,

703
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: the parameters a blowback for them are kind of small,

704
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: and they know that this time, and so I think

705
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: of this effort the second term versus first term. They

706
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: were reactive to public sentiment a lot more in first term.

707
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: This feels to me.

708
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: Much more like an intentional expansion of executive authority, like

709
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: an intentional pressure points of the legal system and the

710
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: economic system through tariffs. I feel like it's a much

711
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: more three sixty worldview of retribution, and that matters more.

712
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: That kind of power projection matters more than like making

713
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: sure they're doing the right things to keep them in

714
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: a good place for the midterms. I don't think that's

715
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: how they're thinking at all. And so I'm like, they

716
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: are doing things that make their electoral lives harder.

717
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: I just don't think they care. Is that a guy

718
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: say that? I just don't think they care.

719
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds to me like they just want

720
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: maximum transformation while they can do it, even if it

721
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: does maximum damage to democratic institutions.

722
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't believe in those institutions, and so the

723
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: point of this administration, in my opinion, is to wage

724
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: war against them, you know. And so when people talk about,

725
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: you know, what's happening with the ivy leagues or these

726
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: law firms or I'm like, that was their plan, right,

727
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: And so, you know, the thing that was always true

728
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: about the Project twenty twenty five discussion last year was

729
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: like he never had to say endorse or not endorse

730
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: because the group of people around him believe fundamentally in

731
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 1: those principles. And so I guess I just think now

732
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: the limits will be tested almost inevitably, because it seems

733
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: to me like that was the plan.

734
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 3: But it's through the system, not through public opinion, right exactly.

735
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: And so you know, so I care a lot about

736
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: public opinion, and I care a lot about, you know,

737
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: hearing those folks, But I also feel like it's important

738
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: to tell them the mandate that politicians and administrations take

739
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: from elections is totally disconnected from the actual reasons you

740
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: might have voted for, Like they only vaguely care why,

741
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: you know, I think so much of what's happening is

742
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: now is a white house that is not really you know,

743
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: they're looking at the mandate in the macro. Hey, we

744
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: won the popular vote, and we won.

745
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: All all the swing states.

746
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: It does not matter if that was small or for

747
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: what reason or whatever. They have a project in mind,

748
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: and I think scheme. Yeah, they have an ideological project

749
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: in mind, a fundamental belief that government and culture need

750
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: to be brought back from what they would say is

751
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: the liberal abyss.

752
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: And that's what they're here to do. And I believe them.

753
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 3: And they don't really care if he has the lowest

754
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 3: approval rating in his first one hundred days since Dwice

755
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 3: the eyes.

756
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: Now at this point, if you're a person who surrounded

757
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: yourself with Trump, you've blown through January sixth, You've blown

758
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: through him getting indicted, You've blown through a lot he got,

759
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: and he's blown.

760
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 3: Through anybody who challenges your worldview, because if you look

761
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 3: at those cabinet meetings, they're basically going around the tables

762
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: saying saying how great he is and how he's doing

763
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: everything right. So he doesn't really have any pushback internally,

764
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: for sure.

765
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm saying the people around him now are much more

766
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: and I know this even from our reporters who deal

767
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: with them day to day, are much more unified than

768
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,959
Speaker 1: the first term, where he was cobbling together a team

769
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: of rivals based off of an election they did not

770
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: think they were going to win. Now that's much different

771
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: in this time around. They have been planning about what

772
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: they would do when they would come back to power,

773
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: and so, you know, that was kind of what we

774
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: saw on the journey, you know, was like they are

775
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: much more organized and they have a much more clarified view.

776
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: I will define, as you know, retribution as a theme.

777
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: But you know, Trump, I'm like this came up when

778
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: gates Greats nomination failed. I remember saying to someone, I

779
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: was like, I think so much of political media is

780
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: used to dealing in personality. So you know, Gates fall,

781
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: So who's coming next? And da la lah, And I'm like,

782
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: if I was, I think there's an important thing to

783
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: communicate in this term. I'm pretty sure Donald Trump knows

784
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: what he wants to do with that Department of Justice,

785
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: and whoever's doing it is just an executioner, you know, right,

786
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: And so whether it's Gates or Pambondi or whoever comes next,

787
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: if you might get mad at Pambondi, they will be

788
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: doing that because, unlike last time, he has a view

789
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 1: of how he wants to reshape things.

790
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: Does that view scare you?

791
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean I guess, I think. I guess.

792
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 2: I don't think.

793
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't really think like that. You know, that's a

794
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of out of like it's just I don't really

795
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: think like that.

796
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 2: I think I.

797
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: Think you're staying in the micro not just that.

798
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: I really think that we get what we deserve, you know,

799
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: like do we believe in this or not? I don't know,

800
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: you know, And so I think that multi now if

801
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: I get really kind of esoteric about it, Like I

802
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: think multiracial democracies are not stress tested thing. Really, Like

803
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: I think that we tell ourselves we've had this like

804
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: two hundred year democracy and even in my you know,

805
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: my understanding of democracy that only started, including folks like.

806
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: Me for all the loss of stuff so fairly recently and.

807
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: So and most don't last more than two That's what

808
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: I'm saying.

809
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: I actually think we tell ourselves that our commitment to

810
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: these values are entrenched and they're actually to be determined.

811
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: And so I guess I don't even know, like what

812
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: this has always bothered me about the way they talked

813
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: about democracy, they being democrats last year, you know, protect democracy,

814
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, all these and I was like, you know,

815
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: part of the reason I think they lost is that

816
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: trust has already been eroded. And they weren't talking about improving.

817
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: They weren't talking about you know, meeting folks where they are.

818
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: They weren't talk about the ways democracy had failed people.

819
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: You know, they were just saying things are going fine.

820
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: And Donald Trump broke it. And so I guess I

821
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: think now what I believe about this White House is

822
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: they're going to test it, like whether we as country,

823
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: and we as institutions and we as systems have pushback

824
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: space against that.

825
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

826
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: Hi everyone, it's me Kittie Couric. You know, if you've

827
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: been following me on social media, you know I love

828
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: to cook or at least try, especially alongside some of

829
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 3: my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen,

830
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 3: Lighty Hoyke, listen to Roman and Inegarten. So I started

831
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: a free newsletter called Good Taste to share recipes, tips

832
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 3: and kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecurric dot com

833
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: slash good Taste. That's k A t I E c

834
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: o U r ic dot com slash good Taste. I

835
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: promise your taste buds will be happy. You did. You

836
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: talk about Democrats and they have reached their own all

837
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: time low in the polling with an abysmal twenty seven

838
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: percent approval rating. And it's interesting you have framed the Democrats'

839
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 3: broader challenge and you spoke about this a second ago

840
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: as the choice between being quote protectors of institutions and

841
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: improvers of them. Can you unpack that for us? Why

842
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: you think this choice is so critical for Democrats right now?

843
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: Yep?

844
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: And why they're failing so much.

845
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: One of say, and like is I think Democrats have

846
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: a hard, harder electorate challenge on their hands. The Republican

847
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: base is much more monolithic, right, and Democrats, I think

848
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: as they're coming to learn, you know, diversity is a

849
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: strength and it's also a challenge. Like they have a

850
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: lot of different types of people who don't all agree

851
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: on the same vision of much of anything, you know,

852
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: And so I think they have to acknowledge that as

853
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: a first thing. And some of the magic wands they

854
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: were trying to wave around white supremacy or kind of

855
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: like or you know, I think, you know, I think

856
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: they just thought that there were things that could hold

857
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: things together and we would have the all the people

858
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: who dislike the races on this side and your frame

859
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: the other side is races, and then they win, and

860
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not really like that, you know. And

861
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: so I think that one they have to believe, they

862
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: have to believe they even need a vision. I don't

863
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: even know when's the last time they you know, I

864
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: was really close to that twenty nineteen, twenty twenty primary,

865
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, I remember when kind of Warren was leading

866
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: that race of ideas early primary really collapsed because electability

867
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: took over. Everything became much more about beating Donald Trump

868
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: than it was about sorting through what they believed on immigration,

869
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: what they thought healthcare systems should look like. You know,

870
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: all those conversations kind of collapse. They've never really reopened them,

871
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, And so basically what I think is going

872
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: to happen, less so in the midterms because it's kind

873
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: of too fragmented, but definitely in the next primary is

874
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: they are going to have to reopen those things.

875
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: And I just think.

876
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: That like, part of the reason that they're aut of

877
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: twenty seven percent, part of the reason when we're going

878
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: back to these voters and they're disliking Trump and they're

879
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: still not preferring Democrats, is because they do not have

880
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: a sense of the competing vision.

881
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: Right.

882
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 1: They know what Donald Trump largely believes on immigration, nobody

883
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: largely believes.

884
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: On the certain issues.

885
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: And when at this point, when we asked them at them,

886
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: what do they believe Democrats? They talk about abortion rights

887
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: and they talk about trans women in sports, which is

888
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: really I don't even and think is something they're committed to.

889
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: It's something that Republicans have put on them. You know,

890
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: and so that to.

891
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: Me is just a sign they're an empty vessel more

892
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: than they filled up their own cup, you know.

893
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: And so like, I guess I think that's the distinction.

894
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm really talking about, is a kind of internal decision

895
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: among the party about what do we believe?

896
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: And he sees people talking about this, you know.

897
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: I saw Chuck Schumer say the Democrats united and that's

898
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: what's important, and Bernie saying, what are we united around?

899
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: Like, that's what the missing piece is.

900
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: And I think that's coming from I don't even think

901
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: that just in the ideological left right center. I think

902
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: there's other issues that Welders talk about to us all

903
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 1: the time that they don't really deal with. Homelessness, education,

904
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: term limits. That's one that Washington doesn't deal with, but

905
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: we hear about it all the time from everyone, yes,

906
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: all across the money in politics, you know. Like, and

907
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: so I think Bernie's actually a good example because in

908
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: his races, we focus so much on the kind of

909
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: agressive left DSA style when you would meet so many

910
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: of voters who were there really because it just represented

911
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: a break from establishment. It just represented less money in

912
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: politics and a kind of outsider in the same way

913
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump.

914
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say there was so much

915
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: overlap between Bernie supporters and Trump's support because of.

916
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: That kind of outside of establishment thing.

917
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: And so I just think that some of the questions

918
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: they have to ask themselves going for is how do

919
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: they create a closer relationship and a closer conversation with

920
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: their base, and how do they acknowledge that their base

921
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: is diverse and that conversation might be a little uncomfortable.

922
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: Right, We in Poland.

923
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: Would see all the time that the softest places of

924
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: support for supporting Ukraine among Democrats were among black Silentinos,

925
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: about working class folks. So I'm saying there are places

926
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: in the party where the universalness in DC is not

927
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: really reflected on the ground, and those are the places

928
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: where Republicans have picked folks off. And so they don't

929
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: have a problem really among you know, news college educated,

930
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: they've been doing better and better. They don't have really

931
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: problem in like politics. Interested in smaller turnout elections. They've

932
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: been destroying Republicans in the way that they were never

933
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: doing under the Obama era. What they have struggled with

934
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump specifically exploits for the record, So Republicans

935
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: can get nominee and then this collapses. But Donald Trump

936
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: specifically exploits is reaching someone who does not followed the

937
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: newness and exposing I think, just their struggles with authenticity

938
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: and so they've been kind of consulted, in my opinion,

939
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: out of being themselves.

940
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: Often.

941
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: Trump is a lot of things, but he's himself, and

942
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: so that kind of non traditional politician reaches different types

943
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: of people. Can go to different Internet spaces, you know

944
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: that are you know when people talk about Kama Harrison

945
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: caller Daddy, the problem is not just where you're going,

946
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: is that when you go there, you sound exactly the

947
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: same that you sound everywhere else, right, And so.

948
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, that is just a message.

949
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: Thing like that, that is just like a I think

950
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: Trump specifically exploits that.

951
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: But do you think it ever gets so extreme that

952
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 3: it goes from authenticity to bizarre or disrespectful. I'm thinking

953
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: about Trump posting himself in papal garb.

954
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: It's disrespectful Trump is I think Trump is.

955
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: Or saying people can get you know, I don't think

956
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: a beautiful baby girl that's eleven years old needs to

957
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: have thirty dolls. I think they can have three dollars

958
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: or four dolls.

959
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: One thing I'm going to say about this, though, I

960
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: think sometimes we act as if those things have not

961
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: hurt Trump. Trump is an unpopular politician, and when we

962
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: are out there in the world, people cite these things

963
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 1: all the time.

964
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: It's problems they have with Donald Trump, and even in.

965
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: The last several weeks, but they forgive him in the

966
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: last several years. I don't think a vote for him

967
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: is always a forgiveness, right. I think that's why I

968
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: go back to the system. Last couple years, they were

969
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: wrestling with the fact that they didn't like either of

970
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: their options. We would not just hear we were hearing

971
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: both sides as bad, right, And so people were working

972
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: through their expressing their dislike of Donald Trump. But they

973
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: were also wrestling with their dislike of the status quo

974
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: and blaming the Democratic Party for that. And so I

975
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: don't think we should say those things are forgotten or

976
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: forgiven more so than they were tolerated. Yeah, they were

977
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: deprioritized on their list and other things were prioritized, and

978
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: so when there's not an election, those things stick out more.

979
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: That's why his approval ratings going down. That's why you know,

980
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: like that's why they might have a tough midterm. So

981
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 1: I don't think they don't matter, you know what I'm saying.

982
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: I do think they didn't cost him the election, and

983
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: they didn't matter more than anything else, and the democratic premise.

984
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: I remember in twenty twenty three, they were fine with

985
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: it being a referendum on Donald Trump because they thought

986
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: Donald Trump they thought they win. That they thought those

987
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: things hurt him and that he would be kind of

988
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: invalidate himself.

989
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: And I'm like, that was the bad assumption, right.

990
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: Well, if grab them by the you know what, didn't master.

991
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: I think we should have some examples to tell us

992
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: that those where bad assumptions.

993
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: Like That's why I was.

994
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: Thinking, like, are you sure about that, because we've like

995
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: have a lot of things that have already happened. If

996
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 1: January sixth can't cost you a Republican nomination, like, that's

997
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: something else, you know, happening.

998
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 2: And so I was on the same page.

999
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, but sometimes I think people go a

1000
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: little too far and act like he's teflon don and

1001
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: nothing sticks to him. I'm like, actually, that's not my

1002
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: experience with voters either. These things are things they don't

1003
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: like and wish he did not do in large part,

1004
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: like there's a certain set of people who will love

1005
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: whatever he does, but there are Republicans that are underside

1006
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: all of those people. We hear about those things all

1007
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: the time.

1008
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: So were you headed next?

1009
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: I actually I don't know.

1010
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: I think I think we have to I kind of

1011
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: like let things dictate what happens. I think that we

1012
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: see some of these pressure points, particularly with like courts

1013
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: and legal system rising. I think we know that the

1014
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: White House wants to focus on increasing deportations, so I

1015
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: think that's going to be a big focus of ours.

1016
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: Is like trying to see kind of public reaction to that.

1017
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: Do we see the type of scenes we saw on

1018
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: the first term, where you know, Muslim band and moments that.

1019
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: Cause people to really come out and push back.

1020
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: That's kind of where I'm interested in, but I don't

1021
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: know where that leads me just yet, but we're.

1022
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: Figuring it out. Well.

1023
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: I'm really glad you're doing this. Do you think other

1024
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 3: sort of traditional legacy media organizations are catching on to

1025
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 3: the need to have more people on the ground, because

1026
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: I think people pulled back for financial reasons. It's hard

1027
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: and close bureaus and all that. And I really think

1028
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 3: your reporting is so essential because I think the less

1029
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 3: that it's done, the bigger the divide.

1030
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I appreciate that.

1031
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: And I really think you know, the Times, I know

1032
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: has you know from us and others has reinvested in

1033
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: the kind of idea that that's what makes us unique. Right,

1034
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: Like I think there's so much content, right, there's so

1035
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: much analysis even or or punditry, But going there and

1036
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: getting that type of original reporting, I really think is

1037
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: what makes newspapers stand out. And so even though folks

1038
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: are investing in it less and may want to pay for.

1039
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 3: It less and local newsrooms are closed.

1040
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like the ecosystem has changed, you can still

1041
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 1: feel how vital it is and how much it feeds

1042
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: the broader media ecosystem. Like I'm like, someone's gotta go,

1043
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: Someone's got to ask them.

1044
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: They don't matter.

1045
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: I want to pay for you to go, right, Like

1046
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: they don't maybe they, but and so all those consecreators

1047
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: are making stuff off of somebody.

1048
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 3: Going oh now.

1049
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, it's an opportunity for newspapers,

1050
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: but I really think we should also take some other

1051
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: lessons it's like we can't. I think the era that

1052
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: we ask people to trust us just because is over.

1053
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: So I don't think the reason to trust us is

1054
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: because it's a New York Times. I think think we

1055
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: have a process, we show that process, you can hear

1056
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: that process, and I think something that media can take

1057
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: is that type of vulnerability.

1058
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: And transparent is helpful for actually.

1059
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: Gaining those things because I think, you know, I tell

1060
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: the people when they ask me about like the Times

1061
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: and things like that. I'm like the process of editing

1062
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: is actually I think would inspire more trust. Like the

1063
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: difference between us or a random place is that there

1064
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,479
Speaker 1: is a We are used to going through a fact

1065
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: checking and context process that helps a story, and so

1066
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: I think we should open some of that up. And

1067
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the work we've been trying to

1068
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: do and like others, because I think there's nothing to hide, honestly,

1069
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: and that when we print it out there, folks are

1070
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: more likely to come to us not less.

1071
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 3: One person asked on social how do you keep your

1072
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 3: morale as a journalist when the president and the public

1073
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 3: left and right keep bashing the media and you say,

1074
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 3: nobody owes you their trust and you have to work

1075
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: to gain it. On the other hand, when they're loaded

1076
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 3: for bear right, When it comes to the media, it

1077
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: is hard.

1078
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: It's different too.

1079
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: I've even seen it in my time, like that type

1080
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: of media antagonism rise and it comes up on the

1081
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: road for sure. I guess what I think, Like my

1082
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: morale though, is not based and I think this is

1083
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: a change that happened for me, Like I had to

1084
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: remove myself from only caring about impact or caring about

1085
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, a politician or public acting on it or

1086
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: really you know, I really started caring more about the

1087
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: record itself and being like, actually, there's real power in

1088
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: just bringing these voices here and trusting that in the

1089
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: end there's gonna be some value to the fact that, like,

1090
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: whether folks listened or not, there was a record built

1091
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: that showed a more diverse set of viewpoints.

1092
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 3: Even if you don't necessarily understand, even.

1093
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: If you don't understand, even if you don't agree, Like,

1094
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: bringing those folks to the table has value within itself,

1095
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: and so really I channel that through the work and

1096
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: that helps my Marie. Wow, is that like it's kind

1097
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: of distinct from what folks do with it is to

1098
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: stink from how folks vote because of it. I love

1099
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: the process of bringing people in. And the other thing

1100
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 1: I try to do is like election wise, it doesn't

1101
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: help to be a super wrong you know, you have

1102
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: to have interest because people have other interests and it's

1103
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 1: also informing their vote. So I try to make sure

1104
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: I think about things that are not politics and journalism like,

1105
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: and I.

1106
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 3: Think it's actually for your own sanity.

1107
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: Like it's an intentional effort to be like, you know,

1108
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to go ride a bike today. Yeah, I'm like,

1109
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: I have to be in places of culture and like

1110
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: be have a life that is helpfully round it because

1111
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: actually makes my connection of folks better, Like rotching World

1112
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: High Wives makes my journalism better, you know, because I

1113
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: can be somewhere someone can reference something and I understand

1114
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: it right, Like sports makes my journalism better because I

1115
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: know kind of what's informing people in communities. So I'm

1116
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: saying I try to make sure I think about the

1117
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: other stuff because one I would just be too overwhelming,

1118
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: but two, like it actually comes up a lot.

1119
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: I'll tell a story about this.

1120
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: I said this yesterday, But I remember when I was

1121
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 1: in Boston and I had to do all those cop

1122
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: interactions because of I was covering crime and stuff and

1123
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: I was having such a tough time like just like

1124
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: connecting with them and also just like you know, not

1125
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: giving me information. It was just kind of taxing. And

1126
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: you know, I remember talking to some editor about it

1127
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, all they do is sit around

1128
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 1: talk about baseball, and they're like, well, have you considered

1129
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: watching some baseball? And it actually was so helpful. On

1130
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: the ride over. I would listen to WI. I would

1131
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: like hear all the baseball like talk, and then I

1132
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: would get there and the inn the first ten minutes

1133
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: we would just talk about baseball, and the whole day

1134
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: would be better. And so it actually made me remember, like,

1135
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: just treating him as police officer is making this worse too,

1136
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: And so I try to think about that in terms

1137
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: of voters and all this other.

1138
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 3: Stuff is like thinking of that people first.

1139
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm like, and if you want to talk

1140
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: to me about something that's not poled before we talk

1141
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: about something else, sure, Like, but like that requires me

1142
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: not being someone I think we all know people in

1143
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: news who are twenty four to seven news and sometimes

1144
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: it requires that, like, and I definitely definitely follow news

1145
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: all the time. I guess I'm just saying I had

1146
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: to be like that cannot be your whole life, and actually,

1147
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be out there, it's actually better for

1148
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: it not to be your whole life.

1149
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: I really needed to hear this today, Stead.

1150
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: This would be encouraging interest all around me. Talking to myself,

1151
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: I have your hobbies.

1152
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for coming in and thank

1153
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: you for bringing so much energy at the end of

1154
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 3: what I'm sure it was a long day for both

1155
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 3: of us. It's great to see you as dead and again,

1156
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 3: thank you for your terrific reporting and also just your

1157
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 3: overall intelligence and humanity.

1158
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I mean, it's like an honor,

1159
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 1: like you're a legend in the streets. So I'm saying,

1160
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: not even like casually, like any time any place, I'll

1161
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: be there.

1162
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: Thank you with Stead. Tell your mom I said, Hi, Oh.

1163
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: My goodness's gonna love that.

1164
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

1165
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 3: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

1166
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 3: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

1167
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 3: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

1168
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: love to hear from you. Next question is a production

1169
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 3: of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,

1170
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 3: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

1171
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 3: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

1172
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 3: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

1173
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 3: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

1174
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

1175
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 3: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

1176
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 3: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

1177
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 3: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1178
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone,

1179
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 3: it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go

1180
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of

1181
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 3: course covering the news. And I know that to keep

1182
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 3: doing what I love, I need to start caring for

1183
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 3: what gets me there, my feet. That's why I decided

1184
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 3: to try the Good Feet stores personalized arch support system.

1185
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: I met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and

1186
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 3: after a personalized fitting, I left the store with my

1187
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 3: three step system designed to improve comfort, balance and support

1188
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 3: my feet, knees, and back. Are thanking me already. Visit

1189
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: goodfeet dot com to learn more, find the nearest store,

1190
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 3: or book your own free, personalized fitting.