Speaker 1: You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
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Speaker 1: dot com. Hall of Fame is one of the most
Speaker 1: exclusive clubs in professional sports. But yesterday Cooperstown welcomed one
Speaker 1: new member, and it's David Ortiz in his prime, one
Speaker 1: of the more feared power hitters, certainly reputation for coming
Speaker 1: up big in the clutch in the postseason. Won three
Speaker 1: World Series titles, seventeenth all time and home runs. He
Speaker 1: was great in the World Series World Series MVP one
Speaker 1: year in twenty thirteen. But this is what happens. We
Speaker 1: don't talk necessarily about who gets in. It's who didn't
Speaker 1: get in, because Bonds and Clemens didn't get in again.
Speaker 1: But Ortiz deserves recognition first ballot Hall of Famer. The
Speaker 1: Baseball Hall of Fame has two hundred and sixty eight
Speaker 1: total players. Fifty eight have made it in on their
Speaker 1: first ballot. It's rare company. David Ortiz a Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: and it feels like this time of the year, it's
Speaker 1: about hypocrisy. Way you voted for that guy and not
Speaker 1: that guy. Likability. David Ortiz, big poppy, is a big,
Speaker 1: cuddly bear, big personality, did a lot of great things
Speaker 1: in the postseason. Friends in the industry, works in the business,
Speaker 1: works for Fox, and you can make a case that
Speaker 1: Barry Bonds Kurt Schilling are not media friendly. Likability means
Speaker 1: a lot here, whether it's conscious or self you know, subconscious,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't matter. I don't. I don't like what Kurt
Speaker 1: Schilling represents, what he says, how he says it. But
Speaker 1: I think he's a Hall of Famer. If I had
Speaker 1: a vote, I would say he's a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: I have a hard time I'm putting in Bonds and Clements.
Speaker 1: I just do. But it goes back to it's a museum.
Speaker 1: If you want to tell the story of baseball, and
Speaker 1: you want to tell it through the lens of Barry
Speaker 1: Bonds and Roger Clemens, make sure you tell the story.
Speaker 1: And if you want to put in you know, it's
Speaker 1: almost like make it interactive. If you can press a
Speaker 1: button and you could hear his former trainer talking about him,
Speaker 1: or when he was in front of Congress, or what
Speaker 1: happened with Balco with Barry Bonds and his trainer went
Speaker 1: to prison rather than giving up any kind of information
Speaker 1: on Barry Bonds. You know, Alex Rodriguez has been suspended
Speaker 1: a couple of times. If you want to tell the
Speaker 1: story of baseball, and you want to do it like
Speaker 1: that and include those who were with you using steroids
Speaker 1: and that you know era, because this is what the
Speaker 1: argument is going to come down to. Yeah, but during
Speaker 1: that time period, Okay, that doesn't make it right just
Speaker 1: because hey, during that time period, everybody was doing steroids. Well,
Speaker 1: David Ortiz got caught with steroids in two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: He did, but that was supposed to be just a
Speaker 1: random sampling of let's see how many people would test positive,
Speaker 1: and then they weren't going to put names on. It
Speaker 1: came out David Ortiz's name was on. But it just
Speaker 1: makes it tough for these voters to try to figure
Speaker 1: this out. And you want to ask former players or
Speaker 1: former coaches, former managers, clubhouse guard, whatever it is, but
Speaker 1: I just don't think you can go. I don't like
Speaker 1: I don't like Barry Bonds, but he was great, and
Speaker 1: you can make a case that there's never been a
Speaker 1: greater hitter than Barry Bonds. Roger Clements, you could say,
Speaker 1: is the greatest right handed pitcher of all time. And
Speaker 1: it's not like you go, man, I don't know about
Speaker 1: their numbers. Now, do I think their numbers were artificially inflated?
Speaker 1: I do? Do I think there are guys in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame have numbers artificial inflated? Yes, I do,
Speaker 1: but I don't have to police it. But as a fan,
Speaker 1: I don't want you rewarded. Those guys made one hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars, one hundred and fifty million dollars, and you
Speaker 1: know who paid the freight on that you did? They
Speaker 1: jacked up all of the When your numbers are compared
Speaker 1: to somebody in the fifties or sixties, Hey, you know
Speaker 1: what his numbers are compared to Willie Mays. Well, now,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're gonna get paid more, and
Speaker 1: then you, the ticket holder, has to pay for this.
Speaker 1: The owners aren't. They want to pass it on to you,
Speaker 1: make you pay, So there's a little consumer fraud. Now
Speaker 1: you might say, hey, I don't care if my movie
Speaker 1: stars are jacked up on steroids. I just want to
Speaker 1: be entertained. Or football players their baseball player whoever. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, this is my show, my voice. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's right, but I just feel. And I'm not
Speaker 1: the gatekeeper here. I don't have a vote. But if
Speaker 1: I saw somebody and you say, is he a Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer, and then you say yes or no? And
Speaker 1: really that's the test. Not Kurt Schilling, you know, said
Speaker 1: this about Hillary Clinton, Like, okay, that's that's Kurt Schilling.
Speaker 1: The person I'm looking at, Kurt Schilling the baseball player,
Speaker 1: Barry Bonds the baseball player, Roger Clements the baseball player.
Speaker 1: And just like Big Poppy, I mean big Poppy, you know, lovable,
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean he should be a first Battle
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. You know, we could really dissect this
Speaker 1: if we wanted to, but it gets to be sanctimonious.
Speaker 1: There's hypocrisy. I mean, there's a lot that goes on
Speaker 1: and it takes away from the honor of going in.
Speaker 1: That's like I always hated what Pete Rose did to
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame Weekend because if Pete was in
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. Nobody would care anymore about Pete Rose.
Speaker 1: But we care because we feel like he's a victim.
Speaker 1: He's not. He did it himself. Bonds knew what he
Speaker 1: was doing. Clements knew what he was doing. They rolled
Speaker 1: the dice, they got paid. They're not going to go
Speaker 1: into the whole of fame. Do I think it bothers them?
Speaker 1: I don't think. I think Shilling likes being a victim.
Speaker 1: You get more attention here Pete Rose gets. Pete has
Speaker 1: got more attention by being out of the Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame than in the Hall of Fame. I don't think
Speaker 1: Barry Bonds cares. I mean, I don't know if Bonds
Speaker 1: is like, you know, this is baseball and they've always
Speaker 1: had it out for me, whatever it is. You know,
Speaker 1: I even heard this. Well, they all cheated, and Bonds
Speaker 1: cheated better than anybody else. Okay, if we're going to
Speaker 1: use the Lance Armstrong excuse, then Lance should get all
Speaker 1: of those toward the France Championships back those titles, right,
Speaker 1: he should still be doing Live Strong. No, we pick
Speaker 1: and choose with all of this, and it's unfortunate because
Speaker 1: we watch because we love it. We're entertained by it.
Speaker 1: We're fascinated by it. They do things we can't do.
Speaker 1: And it comes down to this every single year that
Speaker 1: here we are talking about Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds is
Speaker 1: not a victim. Clemons is not a victim. You knew
Speaker 1: what you were getting into. I mean, Bonds Bonds made
Speaker 1: the mistake of you know, when you have plastic surgery,
Speaker 1: you get artificially enhanced even more. You know, just do
Speaker 1: a little touch up here, then only get seventy three Clemens.
Speaker 1: Same way Fountain Youth in Toronto, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden he's winning more. Cy Young's went to the Yankee.
Speaker 1: They all got paid. There's big money in this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: See it's it's strange, right because there's big money in this.
Speaker 1: So the lesson really is do steroids. Just be nice.
Speaker 1: As long as you do steroids and you're nice, you
Speaker 1: get in. But if you do steroids in your mean
Speaker 1: you don't get in. And that's basically the way that
Speaker 1: this works. Just be nice. Yeah, Yeah, he's exactly right.
Speaker 1: Because I have no opinion on this. David Ortiz does
Speaker 1: have some proof that he used steroids. It's very weird
Speaker 1: how it came out with the Mitchell Report and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. It shouldn't come out, but there is. Roger
Speaker 1: Clements has zero he has a disgruntled former employee. He
Speaker 1: called him out. Clements still denies his statement. Yesterday, Clement
Speaker 1: said baseball was my passion. I gave it my all
Speaker 1: the right way for my family and the fans. He
Speaker 1: will never admit it if he did it, and you
Speaker 1: know there is no proof. Well, you could say, hey,
Speaker 1: let's just sit down and have a lie detector test here.
Speaker 1: All in favors say, oh, that's right. Nobody is, But
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, it's not going to go away.
Speaker 1: It's just that there's a whole group of baseball players
Speaker 1: that are going to be lumped in, fairly or unfairly.
Speaker 1: And next year at this time, it'll be about what
Speaker 1: kind of votes Alex Rodriguez, Gott Carlos Beltron is up
Speaker 1: next year? You know, Is the cheating scandal that he
Speaker 1: was a part of with the Astros is that hurt him?
Speaker 1: Is credibility here being on the ballot. I don't know.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean Clements and Bonds won't get in.
Speaker 1: Now it goes to another committee that they can get in.
Speaker 1: I think This is more of a ten year embarrassment,
Speaker 1: like we're not letting you in, and here's your penance,
Speaker 1: you know, say a couple of hail Marys and our fathers,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you'll get in, you know, five years
Speaker 1: from now. But they have all these committees, so it's
Speaker 1: not like, hey, they didn't get in, it's they didn't
Speaker 1: get in now, and then there's a chance they will
Speaker 1: get in. Tim Kirchin from the Mothership, who is a
Speaker 1: Baseball Hall of Fame voter, will join us. Coming up
Speaker 1: Johnny Bench, who is of course the greatest catcher of
Speaker 1: all time, and I asked him the question about what
Speaker 1: he vote for Bonds or Clements to get into the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. This is from twenty sixteen. The day
Speaker 1: after this is January seventh, twenty sixteen. Johnny Ben John
Speaker 1: Bonds and Clements. Yeah both. I mean, I think their
Speaker 1: careers either before they were doing it, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's a long time to make a career, but even
Speaker 1: before those things were done, they were Hall of Famers
Speaker 1: before they even association or even in the suspicion of that.
Speaker 1: I think we're at that point now where we've we
Speaker 1: understand that, you know, guys are always trying to get ahead.
Speaker 1: Everything's kind of performance enhancing as far as but whatever
Speaker 1: we do in the clubhouse now, I I you know,
Speaker 1: I've been totally against it. I think you look at
Speaker 1: it on a broader basis and say, okay, guys, this
Speaker 1: is uh, you know, have we gone far enough with this?
Speaker 1: These guys, you know, in a lot of ways. You know,
Speaker 1: SoCon and McGuire saved baseball. I love Johnny and he's
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer. I disagree because now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, this is what happens. This is this is
Speaker 1: really what bothers me more than anything that you start using.
Speaker 1: And then there's the guys in the minor leagues who
Speaker 1: want to get to the major your leagues, and then
Speaker 1: somebody's doing it or you know, this guy's doing it.
Speaker 1: Now you feel the pressure to do it. And then
Speaker 1: you go back to high school where that guy's doing it,
Speaker 1: or these guys are doing it, or that team is
Speaker 1: doing it. Now you have to make that decision whether
Speaker 1: you're going to do it or not. And that concerns
Speaker 1: me not only in baseball, but all these sports. What
Speaker 1: you do, when you do it, how you do it,
Speaker 1: and it's not just Bonds and Clemens. I mean they
Speaker 1: have the money to be able to spend to get
Speaker 1: the right people to help them with this with their bodies.
Speaker 1: But I mean it's a systemic issue here. It's a
Speaker 1: bigger problem. And it's unfortunate that that's what baseball has
Speaker 1: been reduced to in a lot of ways, because it
Speaker 1: didn't used to be where you watch Joe Morgan hit
Speaker 1: a home run and go, that guy's five eight one
Speaker 1: seventy five and he's got twenty seven home runs. No
Speaker 1: one ever said Joe Morgan was using steroids or Johnny
Speaker 1: Bench go down the lift, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, you
Speaker 1: never ever thought that. Now I can't help. But when
Speaker 1: I see some guy come to the plate and he
Speaker 1: hits a ball four hundred and eighty five feet and
Speaker 1: I go, how's that possible? How's that possible? Launch angle,
Speaker 1: m I got your launch right here, Yes, Todd, And
Speaker 1: the precedent they would set going forward, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's part of the fear, for lack of a
Speaker 1: better word, for the baseball writers. If you do let
Speaker 1: them in, eventually you're saying, you know, and they made
Speaker 1: all their money and all their fame and got all
Speaker 1: their cy youngs and home run titles, and now eventually
Speaker 1: you'll be let in. So what do you do in
Speaker 1: the future if there's other performance enhancing issues. Eventually you
Speaker 1: got to let them in because you've already set this
Speaker 1: precedent with bonds and the clements. And you know, Bud
Speaker 1: Seeley got in as the commissioner, but he was the
Speaker 1: commissioner during this era. Like he benefited and like there's
Speaker 1: just so many things attached to it, and it's not
Speaker 1: going to go away, and guys are going to find
Speaker 1: different ways to cheat. There's so much money to be made,
Speaker 1: and baseball turned a blind eye. Hey look at this,
Speaker 1: you got, so said McGuire. Baseball's back. We're selling out.
Speaker 1: You know, it's unfortunate. In every year I get up
Speaker 1: on my soapbox. But I still would love to have
Speaker 1: baseball tell the story of baseball and include bonds in
Speaker 1: clements and you know, put it on display, warts and all.
Speaker 1: But if they're going to do that, then you have
Speaker 1: to do that for Pete Rose if you want him
Speaker 1: in there. Which Pete to me, you know, the winning
Speaker 1: is player of all time, But he gambled on the game,
Speaker 1: and I think baseball or the Hall of Fame, you know,
Speaker 1: and they have no problem sending that the like the
Speaker 1: back that Bonds used to hit a seventy third home run,
Speaker 1: or you know, here's McGuire's uniform from what you know, like, hey,
Speaker 1: we don't want you in, but we want to cash
Speaker 1: in on what you did. It's it's just convoluted and
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. But I don't. I just can't get to
Speaker 1: that point where I go, Bonds and Clemens, sure, come
Speaker 1: on and a Rod come on in unless you just
Speaker 1: tell the story of baseball through that prism. And if
Speaker 1: you do, I'm okay with that. Sosa you want to
Speaker 1: put him in. But you know, Bonds and Clemens, Sosa,
Speaker 1: a Rod, they're not victims. They're not. But you get
Speaker 1: that feeling reading all these columns now, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: how did Bonds not get in? Where were these people
Speaker 1: the last ten years? All of a sudden, it was like,
Speaker 1: Bonds didn't gonna get in the Hall of Fame? Who cares?
Speaker 1: You got your memories? You know what the hell he did?
Speaker 1: He may not care. Do I think Clemens cares? Yes?
Speaker 1: Do I think Shilling cares? No? I think Shilling probably says, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the establishment, you know, holding me back there. Kurt
Speaker 1: Schilling's Hall of Fame, plain simple, yeah. Point. If you
Speaker 1: look at Shilling's career in Ortiza's career, they're very similar.
Speaker 1: Twenty seasons, about seven All Star games. They never want
Speaker 1: no MVPs for a big poppy, but he was really close,
Speaker 1: like second and third. No Cy Young's for Shilling, but
Speaker 1: he finished second like three times postseason. They're all timers.
Speaker 1: They're posting stats are unbelievable. Shilling as a pitcher and
Speaker 1: Ortiz as a hitter. Ortiz hit six eighty eight in
Speaker 1: a World Series one time, which is all times silly.
Speaker 1: And look at one guy is not close and one
Speaker 1: guy was first ballot. And they had a number of
Speaker 1: positive tests back in two thousand and three. That was
Speaker 1: the Mitchell Report. Well, they let the players know, I
Speaker 1: think that they were going to be tested. Now they
Speaker 1: thought it was anonymous, but then they labeled it. But
Speaker 1: imagine the number of players who would have tested positive
Speaker 1: if they didn't know they were going to be. These
Speaker 1: guys tested positive spring training. Oh but congratulations to big pot.
Speaker 1: He was there last night with his family. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: had Pedro, Pedro, Pedro Martinez was there. I thought it
Speaker 1: was a cardboard cutout of Pedro, like Pedro's there. Yeah, Polly,
Speaker 1: I've got the all time home run list and the
Speaker 1: amountain put guys who aren't going to the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: They're in the top ten, are top twenty bonds A
Speaker 1: rod Ken, Grippy Junior in Tomy in Sosa not even close,
Speaker 1: Marco were not close, Raffia Palmaro not close. Manning Ramirez
Speaker 1: is fifteenth all time, not going in. Here's an interesting case.
Speaker 1: Albert Poolholes is fifth all time and there has been
Speaker 1: no accusations of him, no failed test that I know
Speaker 1: of that I've heard any. He seems to be on
Speaker 1: the field. First ballot. Oh yeah, any problem with Albert
Speaker 1: Pooholes unless something comes out, Yeah, absolutely. First ballot is
Speaker 1: the biggest beneficiary of all this mess. Hank Aaron. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people in their heads and say on
Speaker 1: social media he's the home run king. Yeah, but poor Hank,
Speaker 1: you know, may rest in peace. You know he was
Speaker 1: never ever celebrated the way he should have been, because
Speaker 1: you know, he had people who wanted to kill him
Speaker 1: when he was breaking Babe Ruth record, and then you
Speaker 1: have the bonds situation. Now he's friends with Willie Mays,
Speaker 1: a contemporary, and he's got to talk about bonds without
Speaker 1: really indicting bonds. And you know, he was such a gentleman,
Speaker 1: just a wonderful man, and he went through so much
Speaker 1: and I don't think he was ever celebrated the way
Speaker 1: he should have been. We'll take a break. We'll get
Speaker 1: phone calls coming up. And two years ago today, we
Speaker 1: were in Miami for the Super Bowl and we got
Speaker 1: the news Kobe Bryant had passed away. I'd bring back
Speaker 1: a portion of an interview that I can tuck, the
Speaker 1: last interview that I did with Kobe, and you know,
Speaker 1: I played it last year on the anniversary because it's
Speaker 1: you can just hear in his voice that you know
Speaker 1: one he was. He found his new challenge and that
Speaker 1: was coaching his daughter. And it's tough to hear, but
Speaker 1: it's important to hear, just with his memory. We'll have
Speaker 1: that for you coming up back after this and the
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Speaker 1: Patrick Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every
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Speaker 1: We'll bring back an interview I conducted with Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: talking about coaching his daughter. It was two years ago
Speaker 1: today when we found out what happened with Kobe and
Speaker 1: his daughter and the other super crashed in that helicopter.
Speaker 1: Have that for you coming up? More phone calls as well.
Speaker 1: Tim Kirchin, he has forgotten more baseball than I know.
Speaker 1: ESPN Major League Baseball Reporter, Senior Writer and he has
Speaker 1: been named to the Writer's Wing of the Whole of
Speaker 1: Fame and as of twenty twenty two, Career Excellence Award
Speaker 1: winner inducted into Cooper's Town this summer. Who would have
Speaker 1: thought that Tim would get in before Barry Bonds and
Speaker 1: Roger Clemens. Well, I certainly didn't think that was going
Speaker 1: to happen. I didn't think it would ever happen for me.
Speaker 1: But I think this is going to be the largest
Speaker 1: disparity in size between player that's elected and the writer
Speaker 1: that's elected. I weighed in at one forty this morning,
Speaker 1: Dan so given up at least one forty to Big Bobby.
Speaker 1: And there's no steroid trace with you? Is there? Tim Well?
Speaker 1: Five four and a half one forty? And I can
Speaker 1: bench about sixty that I don't think this possibility of roids. Now,
Speaker 1: if somebody didn't know the results of yesterday, how would
Speaker 1: you explain what happened? Well, I would explain what happened yesterday. Well,
Speaker 1: I hope I say this is the right way. This
Speaker 1: is the most difficult process, the most difficult job that
Speaker 1: I've ever had in forty two years of covering baseball
Speaker 1: is trying to figure out what to do with a ballot,
Speaker 1: say like this, what do we do with bonds and clements?
Speaker 1: And are they in a different category than David Ortiz
Speaker 1: And is he in a different category than Manny Ramirez
Speaker 1: and Alex Rodriguez. Those are the things that you have
Speaker 1: to go through. So I don't want any sympathy, neither
Speaker 1: of the writers. We're just saying, this is a really
Speaker 1: difficult process. So somebody got in yesterday, David Ortiz, who
Speaker 1: I voted for and I believe should be in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame on the first ballot. But the rest
Speaker 1: of it is confusing, and there are no more right
Speaker 1: answers anymore. Dan, I fill out my ballot, and I
Speaker 1: have for thirty one years. When I look at my
Speaker 1: ballot these every time the last ten years, I look
Speaker 1: at it and say, well, I didn't do this right
Speaker 1: because there are no more right answers. It bothers me
Speaker 1: when people would say to me or anyone else, you
Speaker 1: did it wrong. I'm not sure you did it wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm just not sure you did it right. That's because
Speaker 1: there's so many unanswered questions to all of this, and
Speaker 1: we need a little bit more clarity moving forward. There's
Speaker 1: so many people who say the following, well, Bonds was
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer before, Clemens a Hall of Famer before,
Speaker 1: But I disagree. I think if you're a Hall of Famer,
Speaker 1: you're a hall of famer, and a Hall of Famer
Speaker 1: wouldn't use steroids performance enhancing drugs Bonds was the best
Speaker 1: player in the game. Clemens had a run with Boston,
Speaker 1: but then he went to Toronto, like just trying to
Speaker 1: sort all of this out, like a rod got popped twice,
Speaker 1: big poppy with the Mitchell Report. I don't know what
Speaker 1: is hypocritetical and what isn't with this Tim Yeah again, Dan,
Speaker 1: this is what I run into every single year for
Speaker 1: ten years when we vote, and I'm not quite sure
Speaker 1: what to do every year. Yes, Bonds was a Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer before the late nineties with three MVPs. Clemens
Speaker 1: was a Hall of Famer before the late nineties with
Speaker 1: three Cy Young Awards. And yet my dear friend Dan
Speaker 1: Shawns he says, if you shoot thirty three on the
Speaker 1: front nine and you cheat on the back nine, you're
Speaker 1: disqualified for the round, which is essentially what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, it's hard to argue with that. And yet,
Speaker 1: at the same time, this is baseball compared to golf golfers,
Speaker 1: PGA tour players call strokes on themselves, where baseball players
Speaker 1: were encouraged during that Bonds Clements time to do whatever
Speaker 1: it took to win, and there was this tacit agreement
Speaker 1: going in Major League Baseball. No one's testing, no one's checking.
Speaker 1: You're going to get away with this. The other guys
Speaker 1: are doing it. So again, this is where it leads
Speaker 1: to all sorts of confusion. But from two thousand and
Speaker 1: five on, I see a little bit of clarity that
Speaker 1: we were testing and checking. From then on, Alex Rodriguez,
Speaker 1: you know, got popped twice, as you said, so did
Speaker 1: Manny Ramirez. I think they're in a different category than
Speaker 1: Bonds and Clemens. But you can disagree with me, and
Speaker 1: I understand why. It's just really hard to try to
Speaker 1: put all this together. Dan. The easy way outs to
Speaker 1: just say, if you have a connection to PDS, you're
Speaker 1: not getting my vote, period. The other easy way out
Speaker 1: is to say, I don't care what you did. If
Speaker 1: you're one of the ten best players on the ballot,
Speaker 1: I'm going to vote for you. But I think there's
Speaker 1: nuance to it, and I think you have to look
Speaker 1: at each case individually, and that's where it gets virtually
Speaker 1: impossible to do this right. And also with Kurt Schilling,
Speaker 1: I don't like Kurt the person, with what he represents
Speaker 1: or his tone, but I would put him in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. I just I saw him perform on
Speaker 1: the biggest stages. I didn't he played for great teams
Speaker 1: until he got to Arizona, and he was he wanted
Speaker 1: the ball, he was a gamer, he was clean. But
Speaker 1: I don't know it. Likability factors in, whether it's conscious
Speaker 1: or subconscious. Here, how do you explain Schilling not as
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer? Well, like Bonds and Clemens, and
Speaker 1: like Ortiz, I voted for Chilling every year. Now, some
Speaker 1: of the things he said and done recently make me uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: but I'm voting on him as a baseball player whose
Speaker 1: careers ended fifteen years ago, and his political views today
Speaker 1: are not going to sway me from voting for him.
Speaker 1: But again, a lot of people look at it differently,
Speaker 1: and I totally understand that he is not an easy
Speaker 1: case either, And he's not Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg
Speaker 1: Maddocks great. There is some borderline there, but when you
Speaker 1: look at the postseason, you look at the rest of
Speaker 1: the numbers, he's a Hall of Famer. For me, I repeat,
Speaker 1: I voted for him every year. But the character clause
Speaker 1: comes in for certain players. I'm just not real comfortably
Speaker 1: able being the moral arbitrar of all these things. But
Speaker 1: we have to be as voters these days, explain how
Speaker 1: Clemens and or Bonds get into the Hall of Fame. Well,
Speaker 1: they could be on the Today's player ballot in a
Speaker 1: committee in December. I've been on three of those committees. Dan,
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating process. Sixteen guys in the room, media executives,
Speaker 1: former players, and if one really powerful person in the
Speaker 1: room can sway the argument, that's how you can get
Speaker 1: twelve out of sixteen votes and get in the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. My experience on these committees is that the
Speaker 1: former players and to a lesser degree the executives are
Speaker 1: going to be harder on anyone with a connection to
Speaker 1: PDS than the writers are. So this thought that oh,
Speaker 1: Bonds and Clements are going to go on this new
Speaker 1: ballot in December, which I think they will, and therefore
Speaker 1: they'll cruise through as did you know Jim cod and
Speaker 1: Tony Oliva and Alan Trammell and Jack Morris and Harold
Speaker 1: Baines in recent years. I just don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to go that way because those guys don't have a
Speaker 1: connection to peeds. So you better be careful what you
Speaker 1: wish for going up against the players who are in
Speaker 1: the hall. I'm not sure they're going to get their vote.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but it's going to be very interesting.
Speaker 1: And we always talk about well, such and such didn't
Speaker 1: test positive. Well, Sammy Sosa didn't. I mean, he tested
Speaker 1: positive for a court to bat. Why why is Sosa
Speaker 1: so far down the list? Well, that's a really good question, Dan.
Speaker 1: I think it's in part because he is a symbol
Speaker 1: of the steroid era, fairly or unfairly. And I had
Speaker 1: someone explained to me, I'd never thought about this. If
Speaker 1: say he had hit fifty homes three different times instead
Speaker 1: of sixty homers, maybe he would get a lot more support.
Speaker 1: But I think people look at him and say, who
Speaker 1: is the steroid era? Who's the number one symbol. I
Speaker 1: think some people point at Sammy Sosa. If he wasn't
Speaker 1: so dominant during those few years, maybe he would get
Speaker 1: more votes. But bottom line is he has a chance
Speaker 1: to go on that ballot in December also, and it'll
Speaker 1: be really interesting how he and Schilling and Bonds and
Speaker 1: Clemens and maybe others do if they in there. Indeed,
Speaker 1: on the ballot, l Tuve is going to be interesting
Speaker 1: when we get to that point. But you know, he
Speaker 1: is the face of a cheating scandal, nothing else attached
Speaker 1: to that. But how do we look at something like
Speaker 1: that as opposed to pets. Well, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1: The way I look at it is if jose L
Speaker 1: Tuve has Hall of Fame numbers when his career is over,
Speaker 1: and I think he will, then I would vote for
Speaker 1: jose L Twove. I think I'm in the minority on that.
Speaker 1: I think people are going to look at this and say, well,
Speaker 1: he cheated. Now are we certain that he cheated? Are
Speaker 1: we certain that he was taking the pitches and listening
Speaker 1: to the bang of the trash can I'm not positive
Speaker 1: about that, and without positive proof, and I'm still not
Speaker 1: sure if you know what's coming that automatically you're going
Speaker 1: to hit a home run, surely it's going to help.
Speaker 1: But I think l Twove is going to be an
Speaker 1: interesting case when his Hall of Fame possibility comes up.
Speaker 1: But I repeat, as of now, I would vote for
Speaker 1: him for the Hall of Fame. It's always great to
Speaker 1: talk to you, and congratulations again. Going into cooper'stown, this
Speaker 1: is going to be sort of like Aaron Judge and
Speaker 1: al Twove at second base. You and Big Poppy standing
Speaker 1: up there at Cooper's. You got to stand right next
Speaker 1: to him right well, at some point I probably will,
Speaker 1: But let's be clear, Dan, all kidding aside. The players
Speaker 1: are the players, and the writers are over here. So
Speaker 1: if I stand right next to him, it's only a
Speaker 1: physical thing and nothing more than that. You get a
Speaker 1: plaque or a bust. I think I get a plaque.
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure. I think if I get a bust,
Speaker 1: I'll be the only one with a bust that's actual size,
Speaker 1: which they can do your whole body, like you're not
Speaker 1: just your head. Great. Great to talk to you, Tim,
Speaker 1: Thank you, buddy, Okay, Dan, see it, that's Tim Kirchen.
Speaker 1: What I love about Tim, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things to love, is that he wants to talk about
Speaker 1: the positives in the game, like he cares about the
Speaker 1: game and moving it forward. You know, Verducci is like
Speaker 1: this as well, Buster, only they cover this sport, They
Speaker 1: care about this sport. They want to move this sport forward.
Speaker 1: And you could tell it pains Tim to get dragged
Speaker 1: down by this because he does want to tell you.
Speaker 1: Incredible staff with you know these players, he covers it,
Speaker 1: he loves it. He's been doing it for over forty years.
Speaker 1: And even when I ask these questions and I can
Speaker 1: just tell he's going to answer it, and answer it honestly,
Speaker 1: get some phone calls in here. And I do think
Speaker 1: that Altuve is Hall of Fame worthy or will be
Speaker 1: when it's all said and done. But this is what
Speaker 1: the writers sign up for. It's they have to be
Speaker 1: the judge and jury, and it's a really difficult job.
Speaker 1: And if you put one in, do you put the
Speaker 1: other one in? You know, I still think that if
Speaker 1: you get popped once, the next time, you're out of baseball,
Speaker 1: Like you know, there's really no deterrent. And you know,
Speaker 1: a Rod made all that money, A Rod is on
Speaker 1: the balance. Do I think he deserves to get in? No?
Speaker 1: I mean I'm waiting for somebody to say, well, he
Speaker 1: was a Hall of Famer before, Well when did he start? No,
Speaker 1: he claims that he started when he went to the
Speaker 1: Yankees because he had to live up to the contract
Speaker 1: that he signed. And I'm like, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Is that a Yankee tradition, Oh, Yankee tradition? Yes, a
Speaker 1: rat stats if you look at him though, like he
Speaker 1: suffers from both steroids and the likability factor. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's weird because he's doing a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff in media, he's doing a lot of stuff in business. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the campaign that the rehab. Yes, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm part of Sunday Night Baseball and Fox postseason Shark Tank. Ye.
Speaker 1: I would give him and his people or agents or
Speaker 1: publicist credit. If you'd have told me when he retired
Speaker 1: a two time steroid guy, that he'd have a number,
Speaker 1: you know, Shark Tank and different shows, that he would
Speaker 1: have all these things handed to him, I would have said, no,
Speaker 1: dice way looks good on camera. Then he was dating
Speaker 1: j Low and I was told by a baseball executive,
Speaker 1: you know, this is this a campaign? This is this
Speaker 1: a red carpet campaign to get into the whole of thing. Yeah. See,
Speaker 1: he's really interesting too because he seems to be motivated
Speaker 1: by um, if you hear like some of the stories
Speaker 1: about say Alexreder, he gets wanted to know how to
Speaker 1: shake hands and stuff like that. Right, He's that he
Speaker 1: has this motivation of perfection, and it almost feels like
Speaker 1: in a way, so he can be more likable, which
Speaker 1: makes him unlikable. Does that make sense, Like he's so
Speaker 1: focused on coming across perfect and likable that you just
Speaker 1: don't like him because he's not natural. Yeah, it's it
Speaker 1: just comes. It seems so forced. Yeah. But then again,
Speaker 1: just a couple of days ago, a Rod went to
Speaker 1: the Packers game when it was two degrees out. He
Speaker 1: didn't sit in the skybox, the luxury box. He's set
Speaker 1: in the stands, and not even like Row one. He
Speaker 1: was in Row eighteen in the cold. It was he
Speaker 1: got a lot of cred that night. All he did,
Speaker 1: he got some sitting outside cred. A guy like him.
Speaker 1: I was shocked that he wasn't a skybox. Maybe nobody
Speaker 1: invited him into a suite. That's a whole other story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but he had a Green Bay Packer's hat on,
Speaker 1: and he's the co owner of the Minnesota Timberwolves. And
Speaker 1: they're like, what are you doing in a Green Bay game?
Speaker 1: Are we separating people right now into sweet guys and
Speaker 1: sitting outside guys? Oh? Well, a rat's first ballot, sweet guy.
Speaker 1: Oh you would never think of him outside. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't get a tan outside in Green Bay. Who's who's
Speaker 1: like great sitting outside. Let me take a break. Let
Speaker 1: me take a break. Who's our sweet guy? You're a
Speaker 1: sweet guy. I'm I'm in the elements guy. I'd rather
Speaker 1: be there, just a feel of it. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: let me come back. We'll get phone calls back after this.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Dan Patrick Show podcast. Be
Speaker 1: sure to catch us live every weekday morning nine until
Speaker 1: noon eastern six to nine Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,
Speaker 1: and you can find us on the iHeartRadio app at
Speaker 1: FSR or stream us live on the Peacock app. He's
Speaker 1: My Karma. I've Dan Byer. We have a brand new
Speaker 1: fantasy football podcast called I Want Your Flex. Twice a week,
Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Friday, we come up with new episodes
Speaker 1: to not only look back at what happened, what you
Speaker 1: need to do at that minute, and also look ahead
Speaker 1: of what's coming up in the fantasy football world. That's right, Dan.
Speaker 1: Every week we're going to scour the waiver wire to
Speaker 1: find the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup, sits starts,
Speaker 1: fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate
Speaker 1: the competition. Listen to I Want Your Flex with Mike
Speaker 1: Carmen and met Dan Buyer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
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Speaker 1: streaming now exclusively on Peacock. Whether you know every quote
Speaker 1: or you're a newbie to Scranton, you can stream every
Speaker 1: episode again and again, plus ring in the new year
Speaker 1: with season four super fan episodes featuring completely new scenes
Speaker 1: and extended cut. Sign up at peacock tv dot com
Speaker 1: to stream now. So we've come up with a new expression.
Speaker 1: Here are you a sweet guy? Sui te or a
Speaker 1: seat guy? A Rod you would think would be a
Speaker 1: sweet guy, but he was a seat guy at lambeau Field.
Speaker 1: Maybe getting a little too much credit there, but he
Speaker 1: was out in the elements. Yeah, Poland a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. Rob Low, big NFL fan. Remember I had
Speaker 1: the NFL hat on. He roots for the entire league.
Speaker 1: He was out in the elements, but now it was
Speaker 1: I think it was Los Angeles. It's probably seventeen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't count. Clear. Ryan Fitzpatrick, the former quarterback, he's
Speaker 1: a seat guy. Seat guy who went to the Buffalo
Speaker 1: Gang when it was freezing out and took his shirt off,
Speaker 1: shirt off. Seat Guy's a whole other level. Yeah. Commissioner
Speaker 1: Goodell always a sweet guy. Yeah. Why doesn't he ever
Speaker 1: go sit in the stands? I think I know the answer,
Speaker 1: but you do. I would love to see him seat
Speaker 1: in row eighteens. Ever watched the draft? Yeah? Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you think he's thought about that? Like the commissioners? You
Speaker 1: know what I'm going to go with the people buy
Speaker 1: some beers for the crowd. I don't think it would
Speaker 1: go well if you buy beers. I would ignore anybody
Speaker 1: if they bought me. Hey, guys, you up for a
Speaker 1: couple of Bruce Kye Hey, okay, I'm being overlatable. Anyone
Speaker 1: up for some Bruce Ky's? Hey, fellows, Hey bros, how
Speaker 1: about cold one? Hi, I'm the commissioner. Call me Roger.
Speaker 1: Let me zep up this three quarters in real quick. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm buying, okay, commission We had David Carr on NFL
Speaker 1: Network analyst in the first hour, and I asked him
Speaker 1: about the possibility of Aaron Rodgers playing elsewhere next season.
Speaker 1: You know, we were spinning around the table. Me and
Speaker 1: Steve mary Ucci were talking about this because he's season
Speaker 1: taken holder with the Packers. That's kind of weird. Still
Speaker 1: head coach of the forty diners, and he was saying,
Speaker 1: did you think what I was thinking? And I already
Speaker 1: knew what he was where he was going. The Packers,
Speaker 1: if they keep Aaron Rodgers, they're forty something million dollars,
Speaker 1: you know, cap hit should let him go. They save
Speaker 1: sixteen or something trading to San Francisco for two first
Speaker 1: and Trey Lance and then everyone's happy and Kyle Shanahan
Speaker 1: and Matt Lafleur buddies, they can make that thing happen
Speaker 1: over some chipole like, just make it happen, you know.
Speaker 1: That's one of those where you go, all right, maybe,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. If the Niners want to give
Speaker 1: up Trey Lands, I would bring in Rogers, but I
Speaker 1: would try to keep Trey Lands. But then, because I
Speaker 1: don't know if Trey Lance, I don't think he's ready
Speaker 1: to play next year, but he might be forced to.
Speaker 1: And then you've already given up your draft picks. I
Speaker 1: don't know what draft picks you're going to have there.
Speaker 1: Maybe you have to give up Trey Lance if that
Speaker 1: were to happen. But there's gonna be a lot of speculation,
Speaker 1: probably going to be in early March when we find
Speaker 1: out about Aaron Rodgers and what he wants to do.
Speaker 1: Rogers was on the Pat McAfee show and had this
Speaker 1: to say about his decision. Once you make a decision,
Speaker 1: that's a decision, and you're voting for him, and until
Speaker 1: you get to that certainty is don't make a decision.
Speaker 1: But there also is a timeframe for this because I
Speaker 1: understand that my decision does impact a number of other
Speaker 1: people's decisions and I want to be very sensitive to that,
Speaker 1: and so I will definitely a mecha decision sooner. Is
Speaker 1: it just me? But whenever I watch Pat McAfee show
Speaker 1: and he's on with the former packer aj Hawk, is
Speaker 1: that aj Hawk or is that just a cardboard cutout?
Speaker 1: Because it always feels like AJ Hawk is just staring
Speaker 1: ahead that that's that's his role. You could actually put
Speaker 1: it on a loop. You could get like ten seconds
Speaker 1: of aj Hawk making a couple of gestures, grunt, you know,
Speaker 1: facial expressions, and then that's it because I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've I've seen him or heard him speak, because
Speaker 1: he just stares right straight ahead and McAfee, you know,
Speaker 1: he's always engaging with Aaron Rodgers, and then AJ Hawk
Speaker 1: is yeah, like the Ed McMahon of the show. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and it's often very close up, like almost like a
Speaker 1: three D effect, like his nose is touching the laptop
Speaker 1: with a camera. Well, I think a j's head is
Speaker 1: that big that that's probably why. But a former great
Speaker 1: player center Bill Elk, But yeah, he gets he gets
Speaker 1: up close there. Yeah, Ajahawks first team All forehead and
Speaker 1: jaw line. He has both a big forehead and a
Speaker 1: massive jaw line. Okay, like Brian Cushing, remember the former
Speaker 1: linebacker for the Texans. Might have been a reason why
Speaker 1: he had that jaw line, big jaw line. Peyton Manning,
Speaker 1: big five head, Oh sure, yeah, big nogga. Who else
Speaker 1: is on that list? A big nogg You know who's that?
Speaker 1: The biggest head? He's not a household name member. David Deal,
Speaker 1: the former New York child Liman. He's been on a show.
Speaker 1: If I wanted to take a picture, someone said, what
Speaker 1: does this? What did this man do for a living?
Speaker 1: He looks like a football player. The biggest head I've
Speaker 1: ever seen us. Yeah, huge arms and fingers. Yes, Morgan
Speaker 1: and Baltimore's back him. Morgan, what's on your mind? Hey Dan?
Speaker 1: How are you great? Morgan, what do you have? Awesome?
Speaker 1: So I have a song suggestion for Seaton and then
Speaker 1: I have a question for you. Okay, So song suggestion
Speaker 1: when they're driving through Arkansas up on Cripple Creek by
Speaker 1: the band, because that's where I leave on Helm was
Speaker 1: born in Arkansaw, and that's just a solid team. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, yesterday you were talking to Ryan Clark and
Speaker 1: you had said, um that you're not a huge fan
Speaker 1: of running quarterbacks because of like the threat that you know,
Speaker 1: the danger that comes with it. Yes, how did how
Speaker 1: did the quarterbacks like you know, Allan and Lamar and
Speaker 1: Murray take that out of their game when it's such
Speaker 1: a big asset? Does that come with just being in
Speaker 1: the lead longer? Like Brady who's the greatest of all time,
Speaker 1: but he never runs well, I understand if you're Lamar
Speaker 1: and you're Kyler Murray and that ability to make people
Speaker 1: miss Josh Allen. I just realized with that offense, he
Speaker 1: has to run, and as big as he is, you know,
Speaker 1: there's always somebody on the other side who was as big,
Speaker 1: if not bigger. But getting out of bounds, sliding, those
Speaker 1: are those are really important. But I'm just not a
Speaker 1: big fan. I like when you keep a play alive.
Speaker 1: But I realized I have to change my opinion on
Speaker 1: Josh Allen. If they're going to win a Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: he has to play that way, and I think it
Speaker 1: makes him better because now you have that element of
Speaker 1: we got to contain him. If he's running and he's
Speaker 1: got such a strong arm, and he's become he's matured.
Speaker 1: I mean, he really has right before our very eyes,
Speaker 1: where he went toe to toe with Mahomes in Kansas City,
Speaker 1: and not many people are able to do it. Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow did it a couple of weeks ago, beat Mahomes.
Speaker 1: Can they do it again? Coming up in the final hour,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring back a portion of the interview I
Speaker 1: conducted with Kobe Bryant that was April twelfth to twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: and on the anniversary of his passing. I just love
Speaker 1: bringing back the comments that he had about coaching his daughter.
Speaker 1: Have that for you. Coming up top of the hour,