1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Everybody. Today is May sixteenth, which is National 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: Sea Monkey Day. The origins of that observance are unclear, 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: which is something that we talk about in today's classic 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: episode on the Dark History of sea monkeys. Uh. This episode, 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: which I will confess is a favorite of mine, covers 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: how Brian shrimp came to be packaged and marketed as 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: a novelty product and the discovery that the creator of 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: that product had ties to several white supremacist organizations. And 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: this originally came out on January four. Welcome to Stuff 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: You Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: Tracy B. Wilson. So, Tracy, did you have sea monkeys 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: when you were a kid? I did not have sea 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: monkeys personally, but when I started, well, hang on, hang on. 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: When I started at How Stuff Works, which is now 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: really almost a decade ago, you're making the most astonished face. 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: For some reason, we had an office set of sea 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: monkeys for a while. I thought, for sure this is 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: because of some kind of article on the site, but 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: I cannot find said article. So now I think maybe 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: we just had sea monkeys for fun. I had lots 22 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: of batches of sea monkeys when I was a kid. Uh, 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,279 Speaker 1: more than a few packets were purchased throughout the years. 24 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: I've been debating and over getting more lately, but uh, 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: I had one super hardy batch of them when I 26 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: was working in a library. They lived in a little 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: tank on my desk, and they propagated and kept going 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: for like two years until a cold snap got them 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: when the library lost um power and so there was 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: no heat and it kind of got very very icy 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: in there. But despite all those fabulous packaging cartoons featuring 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: tiny humanoid sea creatures having wacky fun and wearing wacky clothes, 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: sea monkeys are as everybody knows, just Brian shrimp, and 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: they're even sometimes referred to as kind of an elaborate 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: hoax of marketing, uh, like a classic case of selling 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of sizzle with no real steak. But the 37 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: real story of sea monkeys and their inventor is actually 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: pretty surprising in some ways. It's kind of like, uh, 39 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: when we thought, oh, we'll talk about the people that 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: discovered the Verosa facca, that cute little lemur, and then 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: it turned out they had done some horrible things. It's 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: kind of similar in that regard, although it did not 43 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: come as a surprise to me this time because I 44 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: knew you knew ahead of time and pursuit pursued it. Anyway, Yes, 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: they are really interesting creatures to look at in my opinion, 46 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: even though they're not making civilizations full of castles and 47 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: what not on your desk, I concur but I like 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: all of the creatures. So so we're going to start 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: with the story of Harold von Brownhood, which is the 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: inventor of sea monkeys. The man himself was as intriguing 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: and unbelievable as many of his inventions. He was born 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Harold Nathan Brown Hut on March thirty one in Memphis, Tennessee, 53 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: and when he was still very young, the family moved 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: to New York City. Yeah, he has like a one 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: of those wild histories that kind of comes across as 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: a lot of tall tales, but a lot of it 57 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: is substantiated, although there are some question marky ones. As 58 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: a young man, he actually raced motorcycles as the Green Hornet, 59 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: and later on he would transition into managing talent. So 60 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen and you may have only seen 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: the cartoon versions like divers that jump from great heights 62 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: into impossibly shallow bodies of water, or mentalists who can 63 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: read minds and ben spoons. Those are the kinds of 64 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: acts that he managed, and he was really, at his 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: heart a showman. He was also ever the novelty man, 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: and aside from the novelty acts that he managed, he 67 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: also sold novelty products like invisible goldfish, guaranteeing their invisibility 68 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: to consumers. He also invented stray specs, so those glasses 69 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: that were supposed to let you see through all manner 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, it's funny. And all of the research 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: that I did, particularly some of the more modern journalism pieces, Um, 72 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: they'll talk about how everyone, every kid that bought X 73 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: ray spects was trying to look through people's clothes, but 74 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: if they were questioned, they said it was like a 75 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: much more No, I'm trying to look through walls. But 76 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: I don't know. Eventually, Von brown Hutt owned hundred nine patents, 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: and those are for all kinds of novelties and other inventions, 78 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: including bulletproof fabrics and insect observation kits. People described him 79 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: as eccentric, similar to a cartoon character come to life. 80 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: They also described him as a sweet, older gentleman who 81 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: could talk your ear off at a wedding. But his 82 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: story goes way beyond sea monkeys, and while he said 83 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: to have turned down a licensing partnership with the company 84 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: because of other products in that company's catalog that he 85 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: thought were too risque, his own story actually has a 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: pretty dark streak running through it. But first, we're gonna 87 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the creatures that made him 88 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: famous in the toy and novelty world. And before we 89 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: dig into those briany little pets, do you want to 90 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: do a quick word from a sponsor. Yeah, we know 91 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: it's early, but we're trying to keep a big chunk 92 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: of the story together. Yeah, the next two sections are 93 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: really his two big inventions, and I want to keep 94 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: those together, So we'll be right back with those. So 95 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: the exact moment that inspired Von Brown Hut to create 96 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: sea monkeys is a little bit unclear, not terribly, but 97 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: there are two different versions of the story that go around. Uh, 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty universally accepted that this happened in nine seven, 99 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: and in one version of the tale, he just noticed 100 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: Brian Shrimp in a bucket that were like part of 101 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: a um uh bait bucket. And in another version he 102 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: noticed them being sold in a pet store as food 103 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: for other marine life. And the pet store story is 104 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: by far the more popular of the two. It's the 105 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: one that he told most often in his life, particularly 106 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: later in life. Any interviews that he gave which weren't 107 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: a whole lot, he always said it was a pet store. 108 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: In either case, he became completely fascinated by the idea 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: of Brian shrimp, and because they can naturally survive for 110 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: years and kind of a suspended animation while dried out, 111 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: they're easily package herble, which meant in his mind they 112 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: could be marketed and sold. Yeah. So, in nineteen sixty, 113 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: sea monkeys first appeared in comic book ads, although they 114 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: had not been christened with their famous name yet. In 115 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: those early ads they were marketed as Instant Life, and 116 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: they sold for a mere forty nine cents. Instant Life 117 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: was not an instant success, just did not grab the 118 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: attention of comic book readers the way he hoped that 119 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: they would, and so he put the product through a rebranding. 120 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: Yeah so, if we have any comic book fans in 121 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: our our listener base, they might recognize the name Joe Orlando. 122 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: He was a comic book artist. He was an editor 123 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: at d C Comics. He was an associate publisher on 124 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: Mad Magazine. All at various stages of his career, he 125 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: did a lot of other really impressive things. And he 126 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: was actually the artist that was responsible for the art 127 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: that accompanied the upgraded Sea Monkey packaging. So those cartoons 128 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: that we know so well in which in many cases 129 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: sparked imaginations and lured in consumers, were his work with 130 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: those cartoons and a new name. Instant Life was relaunched 131 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: as Sea Monkeys in nineteen sixty four, and the name 132 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: was inspired by the Brian shrimps long tale. I always 133 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: wondered that, and now I know. Yeah, And now the 134 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: Brian shrimp that Harold von brown Hutt had first encountered, 135 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: which was our teamyus selena, are not quite the same 136 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: ones that are sold in Sea Monkey kits. Yeah. He 137 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: teamed up with a marine biologist to first figure out 138 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: how to mix the neutral ants and dry form that 139 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: you could add to tap water to create the ideal 140 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: environment for his Instant Life. Incidentally, the medium that he 141 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: created to treat tap water and make it into the 142 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: sea monkey paradise has never been duplicated by another lab 143 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: despite various attempts, So for a long time, only Harold 144 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: and his wife Yolanda knew the formula. Even so he 145 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: was always working on improvements right until the end of 146 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: his life. Yeah, they allegedly mixed those right on their 147 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: like private property, in the barrel, and then they would 148 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: distribute them in the packets. Uh. But then after they 149 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: had figured out this sort of perfect nutrient balanced mix, 150 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: he further developed these tiny marine critters to be really hardy. So, 151 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: like we said, they were not the Artemius selina that 152 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: he had initially encountered. So he and that same biologist 153 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: worked for years to constantly improve the product by cross 154 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: breeding different species from the genus Artemia until they got 155 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: the breed that continues the sea monkey line today. And 156 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: that's now called Artemia NEOs, which is n y O S. 157 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: And that n y o S stands for New York 158 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: Oceanic Society, And that's the lab where this species was developed. 159 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: Trans Science was the company von Brownhood founded to manufacture 160 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: sea monkeys, and from the early nineteen sixties on the 161 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: company was always promoting this amazing product. What's really funny 162 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: is that if you read trade publication ads for Sea 163 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Monkey stock, it's almost identical in tone to the ads 164 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: that were running comic books for direct sales. There's a 165 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: lot of all caps for emphasis. The overall vibe is 166 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: one of excitement, excitement, excitement, come to where the money 167 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: is Sea Monkey Country, which is the ads that went 168 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: out to retailers and sounded a lot like the ads 169 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: to buyers. Yeah, it was kind of funny, and Von 170 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: Brownhod was the copyman behind all of this very enthusiastic verbiage. 171 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: He uh, it's his copy has this sort of wonderfully 172 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: vaudevillian feel to it, so it's like heart huckster and 173 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: part mad scientist and all entertainer. Initially, the brick and 174 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: mortar retail market had eluded Von Brownhood. Just before he 175 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: brought his Sea Monkeys to market, another company, Wammo, had 176 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: tried an instant fish toy as well, and that had 177 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: not gone very well because the product did not work, 178 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: and that made the entire retail arena petrified of doing 179 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: anything similar. But once Sea Monkeys established themselves through direct sales, 180 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: retailers started to come around and wanted to have them 181 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: in stores also, and that at that point they really 182 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: cemented sea monkeys in like the history of Kitch in 183 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: the History of Toys in there was an attempt to 184 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: bring Sea Monkeys to television. It was written by Howie 185 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: Mandel and directed primarily by Sean McNamara, who would go 186 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: on to direct lots of shows for the Disney Channel. 187 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: The show was pretty abysmal, and it only lasted eleven 188 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: episodes before cancelation. Yeah, if you just on a like 189 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: torture yourself for a few minutes, you can find a 190 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: lot of those on YouTube. Uh, they're awful. They're really 191 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: really awful. On October twenty nine, more than four hundred 192 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: millions sea monkey eggs went into space. They were on 193 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: the same mission that made John Glenn officially the oldest 194 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: man to fly in space. So that was the nine 195 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: day STS ninety five mission aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery. 196 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: And during that mission, the tiny Brian shrimp were exposed 197 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: to radiation zero G and of course the violent force 198 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: of re entry. They were hatched eight weeks after they 199 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: came back to Earth and seemed completely unaffected by all 200 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: of that time away from terra Firma and the things 201 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: that happened while they were in space. Yeah, so they're 202 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: it was kind of a fun little experiment. It's that's 203 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: one of those things that gets taught a lot in 204 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: elementary school classrooms when they're talking about sea life and 205 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,599 Speaker 1: suspended animation. Uh. And the next thing we're going to 206 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: talk about is a very different type of invention that 207 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,239 Speaker 1: Von Brown Hutt created and it was absolutely not a novelty. 208 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: It was a weapon called the Kyoga Agent M five 209 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: and the Kioga, which was marketed as the Steel Cobra, 210 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: was intended, according to advertising, to be a concealed weapon 211 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: that you could deploy in the event that you found 212 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: yourself face to face with a mugger or the attacker. 213 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: The ad copy in magazine advertisements read Kyoga. The Steel 214 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: Cobra is an automatic magnetically triggered steel whip that is 215 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: armed with a heavy caliber striking tip when every second counts, 216 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: This instant action feature frees you from the need to 217 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: first locate a push button trigger in order to fire 218 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: it at your attacker because it goes off by human 219 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: reflex action alone. It always works when needed, and there's 220 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: actually a ton of copy in those ads, it's very 221 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: wordy and it goes on to extol the virtues of 222 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: this small weapon, promising that the steel coils can make 223 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: contact through a leather jacket. It also promises that a 224 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: blow to the header jaw can knock an attacker out 225 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: coal old. Basically, this was a small trigger action, spring 226 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: loaded baton that could be purchased for n plus postage 227 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: in the early days. Yeah, and we'll actually share a 228 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: link to one of the ads for it offering this deal. 229 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: And early on in the life of the Kayoga, Mr 230 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: brown Hunt was actually arrested on illegal weapons charges when 231 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: he tried to pass through LaGuardia Airport security with a 232 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: half dozen of them in his briefcase, and he got 233 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: out of the charges by saying, no, this is not 234 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: a weapon that's ever been listed as forbidden, but it's 235 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: an interesting side note to the story. In nineteen eighty one, 236 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: Burt Reynolds used a ki yoga in the film Sharky's Machine, 237 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: and even though the movie was kind of a flop, 238 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: it basically was a great advertisement for this steel whip. 239 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Over years, prices for the kyoga went up. It eventually 240 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: retailed for fifty and the advertising shifted from that kind 241 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: of aimed at women like this is a great self 242 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: defense tool to if you need a gun but can't 243 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: get a license. That was actual copy that was used 244 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: in their later advertising. And this is going to lead 245 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: us to kind of the dark part of the story. 246 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: So before we get to that, let's have a word 247 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: from a sponsor. So getting back to uh, von Brown 248 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: Hut and the kyoga, and we're getting into kind of 249 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: more modern history. But because this person sort of fame 250 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: and notoriety cemented a little bit earlier in the century, 251 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: he becomes a pretty fascinating figure. And even though a 252 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: lot of this revealed fairly recently, it's pretty important to 253 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: the story. So in the late nineteen eighties, the kyoga 254 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: catalyzed basically what became a public image calamity for Von 255 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: Brown Hut. So at the time, the leader of the 256 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: white supremacist group the Aryan Nations, whose name was Richard Butler, 257 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: was in trouble with the law. He had been indicted 258 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: by a federal grand shirt jury for seditious conspiracy to 259 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: overthrow the government by violence, and in a fundraising letter 260 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: to his fellow white supremacists that Butler sent out around 261 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: this time, he included a brochure for the kyoga. He 262 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: also included messaging that the inventor and manufacturer of the 263 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: weapon had pledged twenty five dollars to his defense fund 264 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: against the federal charges for every kyoga that was sold. Unsurprisingly, 265 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: it did not take long for journalists to get a 266 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: hold of this information had looked deeper into it, and 267 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: the news was not great. Butler uh the sort of 268 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: The first wave of problems was when Butler, again head 269 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: of the Arian Nations, confirmed to The Spokesman Review, which 270 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: is a paper out of Spokene Washington, that yes, he 271 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: and von Brownhote were friends, they had known each other 272 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: a long time, and that the inventor had supported the 273 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: Area Nations for quite a while. The Washington Post ran 274 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: a story soon after exposing even more affiliations with hate groups. 275 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: Not only was Harold von brown Hutt a frequent attendee 276 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: of the Aryan Nations World Congress, he also had ties 277 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: to the ku Klux Klan and had helped an Ohio 278 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: branch of the KKK purchased firearms. He also published his 279 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: own anti Zionist newsletter full of rather terrifying and shocking 280 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: rhetoric it was. I read a few snippets of it, 281 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: and I sent an instant message to Tracy, and I 282 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to say any of these 283 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: words on the air while we record. They're just they're 284 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: exactly the horrifying things you would imagine, perhaps more graphic. Uh. 285 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: In an odd snippet of detail, it also came out 286 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: that while attending these Area Nations gatherings, Von brown Hutt 287 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: often wore a clerical collar and claimed to be an 288 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: ordained priest. I was not able to hunt down any 289 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: confirmation that he was ever actually ordained. He may or 290 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: may not have been, but I just thought it was 291 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: odd that he only lived that image when he was 292 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: sort of involved in these groups. So the real irony 293 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: in the Washington Post article was that it also outed 294 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: von brown Hut as a Jew. In a completely bizarre twist, 295 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: it appeared that a major funder and friend of the 296 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: anti Semitist movement was indeed Jewish, at least by birth, 297 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: according to multiple friends of the brown Hut family. And 298 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: you would think that this would mean that the Arian 299 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: Nations would want to sever ties with him, But despite 300 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: this revelation, he was still welcome with the supremacist group. 301 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: Most likely most people theorized due to the funding that 302 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: he continued to donate. He had deep pockets and he 303 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: gave them a lot of money. In fact, he even 304 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: ended up presiding over the funeral of Richard Butler's wife 305 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: long after this story broke, wearing, of course, his full 306 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: clerical ensemble. Throughout all the coverage in the press about 307 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: these allegations and plenty of people corroborating them, and photographs 308 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: of him posing at his priestly garb in front of 309 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: a Nazi flag, Von brown Huot denied any racism or 310 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: anti Semitism, but then in the late nineteen eighties, he 311 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: gave an interview to the Seattle Times in which he 312 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: openly made racial slurs against Korean shop owners and then said, 313 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: you know what side I'm on, I don't make any 314 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: bones about it. However, from that point on, Von brown 315 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Hut basically refused to answer any questions from reporters about 316 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: his heritage or his stance on racism or neo Nazism. 317 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: It's also at about this time that he left New 318 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: York and moved to Maryland to set up an animal 319 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: preserve called the Montrose wildlife conservation on a seventy acre property. Yeah. 320 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: He Uh, it's sort of one of those weird contradictory 321 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: image puzzle pieces that he, you know, was involved with 322 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: all these really horrible things. He also really loved animals 323 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: in nature and wanted to like study and preserve them. 324 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: It's very hard for me to get my head around 325 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: all of these contradictory pieces. It's a lot easier to 326 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: think of people who have those sorts of views as 327 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: like mustache twirling villains. Yeah. So then when you're like, oh, 328 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: but he was really quite kind to animals, it's like, 329 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: well that it almost makes it more distasteful because you 330 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: can't kind of compartmentalize it super easily. And like we said, 331 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people described him as just this charming, eccentric, 332 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: sweet cookie old man as he got older. So it's 333 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: it's a very complex puzzle. Uh. In two thousand, a 334 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Times article about von brown Hunt relaid the 335 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: news that there have been two different distributors that had 336 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: annulled their Sea Monkey licenses because of their unease with 337 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: Von brown Hunt's personal politics. First was Laramy Limited. There's 338 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: kind of a he said, she said, going on with 339 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: this one. Von brown Hut claimed that he wanted to 340 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: end the business partnership because Laramy was neglecting sea monkeys 341 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: in favor of bigger sellers like the super Soaker water gun. 342 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: Al Davis, who was an e v P at Laramie 343 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: at the time, told a much different story. He claimed 344 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: that after hearing about about Von brown Hutt giving money 345 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: to hate groups, he called the inventor on it. So, 346 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: according to the Davis version of the story, Harold told 347 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: him Hitler wasn't a bad guy, he just received bad press. Yeah, 348 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: that's a quote that gets used in a lot of 349 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: different stories. That's the first story that I saw it in, 350 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: or the earliest story that I saw it in, But 351 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: it gets reused a lot because it is in terms 352 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: of SoundBite, like you kind of can't ask for a 353 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: better sensationalist quote. Another licensing ventor in the nineties nineties 354 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: involved the company Big Fund, which specializes in novelty key chains, 355 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: and they were working on like this little key chain 356 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: mini aquarium that you could put like one or two 357 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: sea monkeys in and carry them with you throughout the day. 358 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: And initially Von brown Hut assured Big Fund president Alan 359 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: Dorfman that all of that bad press about him and 360 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: his ties to the Area Nations was really just rumormongering 361 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: that was started by an enemy that he was having 362 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: legal issues with, and initially Dorfman accepted that explanation until 363 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: a few months down the road there was a New 364 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: York Times article that ran that identified the Sea monkey 365 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: inventor as a speaker at that year's arians Aryan Nations Congress, 366 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: and so pretty quickly thereafter the business arrangement was severed. 367 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: According to George c. Atamian, who was an executive with 368 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: Educational Insights when his company bought the license to sea 369 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: monkeys in the mid nineteen nineties, Von brown Hut had 370 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: agreed to cease all of these public political activities when 371 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: some are brought the l a Times reporter who broke 372 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: the story of the business fallout because of von brown 373 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: Hutt's political views, he pushed a Tamian on the issue 374 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: of the inventor's involvement with the white supremacist movement. At 375 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: that point, the Educational Insights executive admitted that he had 376 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: never personally confronted Von brown Hut, but that he would 377 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: Attaman contact. Had brought a couple of weeks later, and 378 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: he said that he had confronted von brown Hut and 379 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: that von brown Hut had denied his involvement and that 380 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: in his mind, that was all that was needed. Yeah, 381 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: there's a sort of a more complex it gets a 382 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: little soap opera element to that, and it's all in 383 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: the l a Times article which will link to you. 384 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: There was actually one of his anti Zionist newsletters that 385 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: this reporter handed at Tamian and another executive involved and 386 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: said like, uh, this is you know, his work, this 387 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: is the newsletter, this is the stuff he's spreading, Like, 388 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: are you really comfortable working with this person? And they 389 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: both independently are said to have asked von brown Hut, 390 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: did you write this? And he said no, And the 391 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: one guy said to him, the evidence that made it 392 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: completely believable when von brown Hut denied his involvement, was like, no, 393 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: this is a man who loves copy and he loves 394 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: writing and he really prides himself and this newsletter is 395 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: terribly written. So to me, that's the evidence. It's all us. 396 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: Like they're in a bit of denial at that point 397 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: about the person they're working with, but uh. In two 398 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: thousand three, Harald von brown Hutt died after falling his home, 399 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: and since that time there has been sort of a 400 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: constant stream of various legal battles around Sea Monkeys and 401 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: who has the rights and whether they're paying Von brown 402 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: Hut's widow her royalties, etcetera. Nothing outside of like usual 403 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: business jockeying. But that's just what's going on with the company. 404 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: After about it seems that von brown Hutt kept his 405 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: word to Atamian and the rest of the leadership of 406 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: Education Insights. UH. He either ceased his ties to the 407 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: Aryan Nations or started hiding his involvement. The Anti Defamation League, 408 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: who had amassed a substantial dossier on his connections to 409 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: hate groups up to that point, doesn't really have anything 410 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: else the track after that. Yes, so he it does 411 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: seem like he kept his word uh in that business 412 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: deal where he's said he would no longer publicly be 413 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: involved in any of these hate groups. But Sea Monkey 414 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 1: sales have made Transcience and their various affiliates and licensees 415 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: many millions of dollars throughout the years, and National Sea 416 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,239 Speaker 1: Monkey Day is May the sixteenth, although we don't know 417 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: where that started. Yeah, is that like their own marketing 418 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: thing or we do not know. Uh. I was looking 419 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: at one of those like you know, wacky Holiday each 420 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: day websites where they track these sorts of things, and 421 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: they're like, we can't figure out where this originated. If 422 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: it was marketing or just like a super fan that 423 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: sort of spread the word kind of like how talk 424 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: like a Pirate Day grew organically. They don't know if 425 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: this was a similar thing where it was like a 426 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: fan group that started it and it just kind of 427 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: became accepted without anyone questioning it. So that's a sup 428 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: of Sea Monkey Day number one. I think if this 429 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: were going on now, there would not be any Oh, 430 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: I will just stop having eyes to these white supremacy 431 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: organizations like I think the uh bad Press and fewer 432 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: are on the part of the Internet would not let 433 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: that stand. Yeah. I had a similar thought while I 434 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: was researching this, like there's just no way one he 435 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: couldn't the odds of him having been able to be 436 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: involved in these sorts of activities for so long without 437 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: anybody realizing it or calling him on it, although there 438 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: were allegedly rumors throughout the toy industry about him leading 439 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: up to that, but there wasn't any evidence. I guess 440 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: that people knew it just wouldn't happen. They would be 441 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: outed so much more quickly and so vocally and so 442 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: publicly through social media that I think it would be 443 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: a lot different if this all went down today. I 444 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: also had no idea until uh, I got this outline 445 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: from you basically, which is kind of weird, because I 446 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: feel like I know so many um Like, there are 447 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: so many kind of urban legend about you know, so 448 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: and so CEO of this organization is a racist and 449 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: it's not actually a true thing, right, And in this 450 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: case where he really was having direct involvement with all 451 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: these white supremacist organizations, I had never heard anything about 452 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: it until this episode. Yeah, that l a Times article 453 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: which is a really good read um that we referenced, 454 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: referenced a couple of times. He even mentions at the beginning, like, oh, 455 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: I thought I was doing kind of a fluff piece 456 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: about nostalgia toys and you know, sort of kitch in 457 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: the modern era, and how there's this new wave of 458 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: interest in toys from the fifties and sixties, and then 459 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: with minimal digging and like he reached out to the 460 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: anti Defamation League after he started hearing these things and 461 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: they sent him a copy of this huge dossier that 462 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: they had a math. He was like, this is a 463 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: very different article than I started writing. Uh, we don't 464 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: know what that's like at all. Yeah, yeah, it's a 465 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: it's so sort of mind blowing to me. This again, 466 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: it's the disparity of his image of being this sweet, 467 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: wacky guy, like a nutty inventor and a a little 468 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: bit of a flam flam man in some ways, and 469 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: then also being part of this just horrific thing and 470 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: that he was Jewish and part of all of this 471 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: is really hard for me to get my brain around. 472 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: But he is deceased, so no one can ask him, 473 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: and if you weren't, he probably would not want to 474 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: answer any of those questions anyway. Do you know if 475 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: his widow is still living. She is, she was involved 476 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: in a legal action as recently is about a eleven 477 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: or twelve months ago, but she also will not answer 478 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: any questions about his background or his political views. So 479 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: that's pretty much all lockdown on all such discussion. Uh. 480 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: It's fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for joining us 481 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: today for this Saturday Classic. If you have heard any 482 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: kind of email address or maybe a Facebook you are 483 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: l during the course of the episod owed that might 484 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: be obsolete. It might be doubly obsolete because we have 485 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: changed our email address again. You can now reach us 486 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: at history podcasts at i heart radio dot com, and 487 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: we're all over social media at missed in History, and 488 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, 489 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen 490 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: to podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 491 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 492 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 493 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.