WEBVTT - Listener Questions: Ant Cloning Machines 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.799 Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:15.920 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.079 and today on the show, it's a listener questions episode. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.120 You send me your questions to Creature Future pod at 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.400 gmail dot com, and I do my best to answer them. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.520 These can be questions about animals, about your pets, about wildlife, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:36.600 about evolution, about the environment, and I will try to 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.480 answer all of your questions. So let's get right into 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.839 it with our first listener question by Katie. I hope 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.560 you had a great summer. I'm a seventh grade science teacher. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.000 This year is part of our ecology unit. I'm planning 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.640 on having students focus on ephemeral pools, including raising some 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.840 triumphs under various conditions in our classroom. I was wondering 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:01.840 if he'd be willing to do a show on ephemeral 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.880 pool organisms, including these adorable, charismatic little guys. I love 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:10.080 the show. Best wishes, Amanda m I Amanda, so I'm 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.280 so happy that you're enjoying the show. That's a fantastic 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.840 suggestion for an episode that I'm definitely interested in doing. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.280 When I was a kid. I was given some desiccated 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.880 try up eggs in one of those little kids, and 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.399 I managed to bring I think a couple to life 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.440 for a little while, very briefly, but I had no 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.680 idea what I was doing. I used tap water, probably 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.920 not the right salinity, so they didn't last very long. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.280 And yeah, I think this is an excellent episode suggestion. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.280 I do want to do a full episode on ephemeral pools, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.800 including tryops, but for now I'll just do kind of 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.640 a brief overview. First of all, what is a tryup? 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.560 What is Amanda talking about? It is a little crustacean. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.200 It looks a lot like a tiny horseshoe crab or 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.600 some kind of alien. They have this plate like body 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.240 and a segmented tail that forks at the very end 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:15.440 into these two long tips. They're called triops because they 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:20.720 have three eyes. Two are these close together compound eyes 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.160 on the top of their head. They're so close together 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.360 they're almost like kind of merged into one another, like 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.800 Sonic the hedgehog, almost, And then they have a third 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:36.040 eye in between them. And this eye is a simple 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.280 eye with a single lens. So triups mature very quickly, 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.440 and there are many different species of tryops, but in 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:49.040 general they only live to be around ninety days, so 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.640 their eggs, on the other hand, depending on the species, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.600 can remain dried out for years. So let's talk a 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.760 little bit about ephemeral pools. It sounds very mystical and magical, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.919 and it is so. Ephemeral pools, also sometimes called vernal 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:12.040 pools or informally potholes, are small seasonal pools of water 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.760 that come during wet seasons and tend to dry out cyclically. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:23.400 So this means that they generally don't house fish, except 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.720 that there are some fish like killifish that have specifically 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:33.000 adapted to having really brief, fast live spans and produce 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.760 eggs that can survive desiccation, so they can live in 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:41.680 these ephemeral pools. But generally speaking, usually there's a lot 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:47.240 of invertebrate species. You also have some amphibian species. So 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.760 what all these species have in common is that they 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:54.400 have to be able to reproduce within the wet season 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.160 and produce eggs that can survive the dry season. So 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.400 they have to hatch quickly when they are exposed to water, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:10.640 and they have to mature very quickly and reproduce and 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.600 then lay eggs that we'll be able to survive being 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:18.240 dried out. So that's actually why, Like, if you ever 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.320 got sea monkeys, which are also known as brin shrimp 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.480 more technically or tryops, and you know, you can buy 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.440 these kits. You can get them sent to your house. 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.520 I know, back in probably I think like the fifties 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:37.080 used to. They used to advertise sea monkeys and magazines 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.200 and kids could send in their hard earned cash for 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.000 a little packet of sea monkeys and a little plastic 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:49.080 aquarium and maybe or maybe not have them come to life. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.400 Certainly they did not look like the pictures on the packaging, 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:58.440 but they were brine shrimp. And the reason that you 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:03.080 can revive these dried out shelf stable eggs is that 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.360 their eggs are very hardy. They survive being dried out. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:14.119 They go into this sort of like suspended not quite 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.640 suspended animation because it's an egg, so it is not 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:23.360 yet fully matured organism, but yeah, it's in a it's 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.120 in a state of stasis, so you can keep them 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.440 relatively easily, and then once you expose them to water, 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:36.479 hopefully of the right salinity and hardness, then they will 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:42.760 hatch they'll come to life. So other ephemeral pool residents 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:49.320 are amphibians like salamanders, newts, and frogs. So the nice 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.120 thing about being an amphibian is you can move around, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.760 so as your pool is drying up, you can maybe 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.560 find another pool that isn't as dry. But they it 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:04.000 is also important for them to lay eggs that survive 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.720 being dried out. There's some amphibians that will bury themselves 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.360 in the mud to survive dry periods as well. So 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.880 there are other types of adaptation and ephemeral pools happen 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.360 all over the world. So you'll have very different species 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.520 depending on where you are, but you can have in 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.839 one ecosystem for one kind of ephemeral pool, like hundreds 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.560 and hundreds of different species who are taking advantage of 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.320 the cycle, the dry wet cycle. So this is really 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.120 cool stuff. I definitely want to do a full episode 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.400 on this. So thank you so much for the question, Amanda, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.240 and good luck to you and your kids and raising 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.280 an army of tryops. I'm very interested. Let me know 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.080 how that goes, all right, onto the next listener question. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.960 This one is really really good. In fact, I would 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.560 say this is less of a question and more that 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:08.839 someone bringing me some research to my attention and a 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.800 very good summary of it. So I'm just gonna read 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.680 you the whole email. Hi, Katie, I just happen to 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.080 read the most mind blowing scientific paper I've ever come across, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.040 and it's relevant to your interests. It begins with the 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.640 statement living organisms are assumed to produce same species offspring 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.360 and cites two sources, one of which is the origin 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.320 of species. So you know you're in for a wild ride. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.360 A bunch of ant species have queens that lay only 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.440 princess eggs when they mate with their own males. To 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.400 make workers, they have to mate with males of entirely 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:48.040 different species. The workers are thus all hybrids. And this 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.960 isn't even the key finding. Apparently this is just a 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.280 thing some ants do, and it has been known for 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:59.320 a while. No, the finding has to do with Mesor Ibericus, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.840 the queens of which have to mate with mesoor structor 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.040 to make workers. So these are the main two species 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.400 that we're going to be talking about. The problem is 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.320 that m Ibericus and M. Structor don't live in the 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:18.760 same place, so m Ibericus queens do some crazy cellular 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:24.320 jewurry brokery to lay eggs that hatch into M. Structor males. Yes, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.080 these are queen ants that lay eggs of an entirely 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:32.480 different species. So when it's time to mate, the queen's 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.520 princesses fly off and mate with both m Ibericus and M. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.120 Structor ants from other colonies. Then they do something akin 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:45.800 to indosymbiosis on the M structor sperm. Quick note from me. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:51.160 Endosymbiosis meaning that you have a symbiote, another organism living 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:56.680 inside you. Symbiosis is a non judgmental term of a 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:03.280 close relationship between two organisms. Can range from mutualism to parasitism, 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.480 so in this case it's not necessarily parasitism. Probably closer 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.880 to mutualism all right. So back to the email. They 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:15.360 do something it can to endosymbiosis on the M structor sperm, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.280 taking it into the queen's own cells but not merging 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.559 its nucleus. The queen can thus regulate fertilization and mitosis. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.319 She can lay diploid pure strain m Ibericus eggs that 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:34.679 hatch into princesses haploid m Ibericus eggs that hatch into 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.480 m Ibericus males, So diploid and haploid. Diploid is two 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:45.280 sets of chromosomes, usually coming from the mother and the father. 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:50.080 Haploid is one set, usually in this case coming just 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:57.840 directly from the maternal line. So okay, so all so far, 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:05.320 very normal for ants. They lay diploid female eggs with 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.920 genes from both the mother and the father, but then 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:13.520 haploid males with genes usually just from the mother. But 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.440 here's where it gets kind of finicky. So so back to 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:22.160 the email. They have haploid instructor eggs. So this is 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.520 the other species we were talking about. M. I. Buricus 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.760 is the queen, and they're laying haploid instructor eggs that 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:35.280 hatch into instructor males and diploid hybrid eggs that hatch 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:43.319 into workers. So these ants can both create basically male 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.760 clones of another species as well as the hybrid workers. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.240 All right, back to the email. This is amazing, right. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.040 The authors bring up some important points in the discussion section. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.400 The sexual behavior of these ants means we really need 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.440 to rethink the whole concept of speed. She's because kate 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.559 nature cares not what boxes we put things into. They 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.680 also describe such interspecies mating and ants as a form 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.120 of sperm parasitism, but it's ambiguous which is the parasite 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.040 and which is the host. One way to look at 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.920 it is that M. I. Buricus is just using instructor's 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.640 sperm to make more in my Burcus, not letting their 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:24.840 captive instructors mate with princesses of their own species. But 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.280 from a selfish gene perspective, one could say that mstructor 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.480 is piggybacking off the hard work of M. My bu 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.480 because using a whole other ant species to perpetrate the M. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.640 Structor genome nature sure is wild and confusing. I guess 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.880 I should ask a question, shouldn't I? Is this the 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.560 wildest form of reproduction we know? Or do other species 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.360 get even crazier? Are there any other animals that laugh 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.000 in the face of our attempts to define the species? 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:55.240 Keeping great Chris, M Hi, Chris, so amazing email, great, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.360 great detail, an amazing study that you bring out. So 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.560 I read the paper you sent me. The paper is 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:06.400 called one mother for two species via obligate cross species 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.520 cloning in ants. So your summary, Chris is perfect. I 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.360 just want to reiterate stuff because like, there's a lot 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.760 of a lot of things going on. These queens of 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.600 the m Ibericus ants are producing a lot of different offspring. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:26.680 So this incredible species of ant Mesor Ibericus was found 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.040 to use the sperm of a different species, mesr structor. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.080 So the m Ibericus queens are able to use the 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.200 DNA of their own species to produce both male and 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.160 female offsprings, but they cannot produce workers. So their free 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:47.440 male offsprings are future queens and the male offsprings are 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.720 their own species and used for mating for producing more 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:58.800 future queens. Ah. But they need the inmstructor DNA this 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.640 other species DNA to produce workers. But they don't only 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.960 use it to produce workers. They use this DNA to 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:14.320 produce clones of males from this other species, haploid males 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.520 that are only getting their DNA from the instructor DNA, 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.160 as well as hybrid females that have both m Ibericus 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:29.600 DNA and in instructor DNA, and those hybrid workers are 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.439 essential to the functioning of the colony. So the ability 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.880 of the m Ibericus ant to produce workers has become 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:45.160 entirely dependent on instructor DNA. The researchers found that worker 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:51.199 hybrids primarily had the DNA of cloned instructors, although some 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.679 were wild types. So it means that sometimes the queens 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.680 had directly mated with instructors they found in the wild 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:03.520 and produced produced workers from these matings. But a lot 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:09.600 of these workers are entirely produced by clones of this 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.800 other species. So the queen kind of becomes like a 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:17.079 clone factory where she's producing clones of this other species 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:24.920 that are then used to meete with to produce hybrid workers. Meanwhile, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.600 she's still doing normal ant things where she's producing future 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.680 queens as well as males of her own species. So 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.320 the high amount of workers who are fathered by clones 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:41.240 means that, very uniquely among ant species in my Bericus, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.480 queens create a steady supply of clones. You know, like 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.080 in Man. I didn't watch all the prequels to Star Wars, 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.360 but you know in Star Wars they make a bunch 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.000 of a clone army. It's what these queens are doing, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:58.440 and then they use these clones to father worker ants. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:06.000 And the study authors liken this to domestication. Definitely very strange, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.680 very very weird dynamics going on. I think this study 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:14.520 is really really cool Chris, As you pointed out, the 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.480 concept of species is more of an art than a 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.480 rule in nature. The most simple definition of a species 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.200 is the biggest category of organism in which the individuals 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.360 can mate and produce fertile offspring. This definition is definitely lacking. 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.760 What about asexual organisms? Right, So you could say, like, ah, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.800 but so then a species also includes those that individuals 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:45.960 can asexually reproduce. But again, this definition isn'tcomplete given that 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:52.920 hybrids exist, and while most hybrids like mules, are not fertile, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:58.120 you can sometimes have hybrid species that are fertile. So 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:08.600 often biologists use other markers, either DNA, morphological differences, evolutionary 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.200 history to help refine the definition of species. So like 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.840 in this case of these ants, these two species diverged 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.080 a really long time ago, millions of years ago, and 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:28.560 then it seems like this symbiotic relationship developed after they 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.280 had diverged. So that's kind of why they would say 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.600 these are different species, even if they're incorporating these other 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:41.280 ants regularly into their mating. But it's definitely a fuzzy category. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.760 There's a lot of gray area, just as there is 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:49.640 for most things in biology. But yeah, of course, there's 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:58.360 so much debate when it comes to species, particularly differentiating 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:03.320 between species and subspecies. There are a whole like species 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:08.640 complexes where you have things often things like butterflies or frogs, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.600 where you have a huge diversity of species, and then 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:20.640 some of them are morphologically genetically extremely similar and can 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.840 even potentially mate with each other, but they have a 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.040 few differences. So the question is, at one point are 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:32.080 they a different species who can just kind of mate 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.439 with each other and produce fertile offspring, and at what 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.480 point are they different. It's very hard. It's very hard 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:44.359 to kind of make these categories. There's much a lot 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.679 of thought that goes into it that I don't I 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.399 don't quite understand. I'm certainly not the authority on what 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:58.760 exactly counts as a species. As for Chris's other question 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.640 about whether this is the wildest form of reproduction we know, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.280 I'd say it's really subjective. To me. This study is 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.639 really really cool. It's very exciting that you have an 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.480 ant species that is basically producing clones of another species 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.119 that they're using as a farm for genetic material to 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:26.600 create worker ants. That's incredible. But there's so many examples 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:31.600 of really weird life cycles, super super strange, lots of 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:37.639 cases of sexual and asexual reproduction, assisted reproduction from like 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:43.119 other species, sexual parasites, that all get pretty freaky. I 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:50.080 would say, I think that the what is strangest is 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.440 going to be subjective. But I'll offer up an example 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:58.400 of an extremely strange form of reproduction. So I cannot 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.640 recall if I've talked about this on the show show before, 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.919 but this is the Adactylidium, which is a microscopic arthropod 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:12.439 whose entire life cycle is extremely messed up. So these 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.640 are mites. These are teeny teeny teeny tiny mites. Their 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:21.879 microscopic you really can't see them barely at all, I 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:26.560 doubt with the naked eye. So let's start with the 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.080 pregnant female. She has up to eight embryos inside her, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.760 all female, and then she has one male embryo. These 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:42.959 develop into reproductively mature mites inside of her, and the 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:49.399 male mates with all the sister females fertilizing them, So 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.480 all of this is already happening inside the pregnant female. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.760 Then the offspring eat their way outside of their own mother, 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.640 who's only a few days old herself, which kills which 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.879 kills her. So this is not the only form of 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.560 matrophagi in the animal kingdom. There are other animals that 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.399 will eat their own mothers, but this is certainly, I think, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:19.800 the only case where you have already pregnant females inside 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.960 the mother then eating their way outside. You think this 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.119 sounds really unfair for the females. The males don't have 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:34.560 much of a life either. After impregnating all of his 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:40.000 sisters inside his own mother, he has no further purpose. 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.320 Even if he gets outside of the mother with the sisters, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:49.680 he doesn't have any instinct to feed or to mate. 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:55.240 He just patiently waits for death to come. The females, meanwhile, 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.760 will find a thrip EGGA thrip is another teeny tiny 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.160 art pod, So they find an egg of this other 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:09.920 species to feed on, and they are already pregnant because 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.680 they were fertilized while they were still inside the mother. 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.000 So they feed on an egg and after a few 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.439 days the same thing happens to them. So it's a 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:25.640 pretty thankless existence for these mites. Life is an endless 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:32.320 genetic production line and little else. Thankfully, their microscopic they 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:38.320 do not have many brain cells around, not much neural like, 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.880 they do have neural cells, but it's not I wouldn't 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:48.240 feel too much existential horror on their behalf because probably 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.040 they're not super aware of what's going on. So really 0:21:53.080 --> 0:22:00.800 it's us who get to ponder the existential ramifications of 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:06.120 the existence of these Adactylidium mites. So there you go. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.600 I don't know. I wouldn't say it's cooler than the 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.679 ant study. I think producing an army of clones of 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.080 another species that you harvest their DNA from for your 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.480 own workers is also pretty messed up. Nature's very, very 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.160 creatively messed up. There's lots of examples. Here's just another one. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.560 Hope you enjoyed that, all right, So we'll take a 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.399 real quick break and then get back with another listener question. 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:41.040 So here's another listener question. Hi Katie, longtime listener, first 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.199 time questioner. Could you discuss the management of invasive species 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.800 and non native species? I find myself torn due to 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.879 my love for animals. I understand that invasive species can 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.760 negatively impact or even devastate native species, but I have 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.000 a hard time with calling them. I suppose it just 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.919 upsets me that animals have to suffer due to human errors. 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.959 I know that invasive species have to be managed in 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.479 some way, but what goes into the decisions on how 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.360 to manage them? Who typically has the say and how 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:17.280 they're managed? Are the management strategies usually successful? What happens 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.760 when a species is not native but also not harmful? 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.600 Would they just be left alone? Are there examples of 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:28.040 non native species being beneficial? Interested in any information about this? Really, 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:30.280 I'd love to know your thoughts so I can understand 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:35.840 it all a bit better. Thank you, Ashley from Kalamazoo. Hi, Ashley, 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.359 So this is a great question, and I totally get 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:43.040 where you're coming from. Invasive species aren't evil. It's not 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.920 their fault. They usually had no real say and where 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:50.920 they ended up, and they're just trying to survive. Controlling 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:56.560 them is usually very important in protecting ecosystems. But what 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.560 about when they simply adapt to their new home without 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:04.720 wreaking havoc? That's a great question. So we know that 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:10.080 certain species like cane toads, cats, black rats, zebra muscles, 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:15.080 longhorn beetles, these are all examples of animals that are 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:20.760 invasive that can be incredibly dangerous to native species. You'll 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.400 notice that I mentioned cats I'm talking about the same 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.440 type of kiddies that we have as pets. Feral cats 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:32.679 can indeed be considered invasive where they freely roam, breed, 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:39.000 and kill native species, particularly birds. Usually, though we're less 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:43.600 comfortable hunting and killing cats because we love them. They're pets, 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:49.680 so controlling them usually involves spaying and neutering campaigns, though 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.240 we do also sometimes trap them and euthanize them. That 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.080 does certainly happen either way. I think people are more 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:02.360 squeamish about being the idea of colling feral cats, right 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:05.240 even though we do to a certain extent do it, 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:10.800 although we do it humanely with euthanasia. Yeah, rightfully, So, 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:14.760 we were uncomfortable with the idea of calling these feral 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:19.239 pets that we're the ones who introduced them, and we 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:22.840 also kind of have a more personal relationship with them, 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:27.400 so we understand we frankly like see them more as 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:32.000 an animal with emotions, even though there's plenty of invasive 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:37.360 species that we call that are similarly you know, animals 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:42.120 that have feelings, right, So, like it's just it's kind 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.960 of a matter of perspective. Because these are pets, we 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:50.960 empathize with them more even though there's plenty of perfectly complicated, 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:59.480 intelligent animals who are also invasive species. So unfortunately, like 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:03.320 doing a lot of spain and neutering or trapping in, 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:11.360 euthanasia isn't always an option. Uh So, for instance, on islands, 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:17.320 rats can be really really dangerous. So rats are extremely fertile, 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:22.280 they produce a lot of offspring, and so in some places, 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:26.119 if they are not controlled quickly, they can very effectively 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:32.080 wipe out native island populations, and so usually conservationists will 0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:36.800 use lethal methods in these in these cases, like using poisons, 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:41.720 which I think is it's sad, right, Like, I think 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:46.359 rats are intelligent little animals. Some people keep them as pets. 0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:49.960 I'm sure people who own rats as pets will kind 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:53.080 of really sympathize with this, right because you see, like, yeah, 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:56.880 they they they're they they have they they have a brain, 0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.000 they have a mind. You know, they're they're simple creature. 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:02.800 But they that doesn't mean that they don't have emotions 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:06.439 and they don't have a level of social intelligence. So 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:10.919 the control of rats is I think always for me 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:16.760 at least, been kind of an uncomfortable an uncomfortable thing 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:21.280 to reckon with, right because in terms of protecting ecosystems 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:27.240 and also protecting human health, controlling rats is pretty important. 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:31.720 But on the other hand, you know, poisoning them rat 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.240 poison has a lot of problems, one being that it 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:42.480 is not necessarily very humane way of killing an animal, right, 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.320 And then the other is that if you do have 0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:49.480 rat populations where they're also predators, you can cause ecological 0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:53.280 damage if the predators are eating rats who have been poisoned. 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:58.280 So I really only think in cases where you are 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:05.760 very time constrained, right where rats could easily overtake, say 0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:09.000 like an island with a lot of vulnerable bird species, 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.439 and you have to control their population really quickly. I 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.080 do see why conservations and will sometimes use this, but yeah, 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:21.560 it's certainly not ideal, but at this point, right, logistically, 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.359 sometimes it's what has to be done. But that doesn't 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:30.320 mean that humane options are always inconvenient or more expensive. 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:35.240 In fact, I'll bet that at some point more humane 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:39.719 methods will become like the standard. So there are some 0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:44.440 wildlife advocates who point out that hunting right, like one 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:48.520 method of colling, is really ineffective. At this point, right, 0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:51.880 we don't have there's just not enough people who need 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:56.440 sustenance from huntings that are going out and say like 0:28:56.680 --> 0:29:03.200 colling wild boar populations, So it's it's expensive then to 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:08.200 like actually set about trying to purposefully coal and hunt 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:14.880 wild boar. So, uh, there's got to be a more 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:18.240 effective and also more humane option for being able to 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:22.000 control their populations because wild boar can be very destructive 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.840 to their ecosystem. And that's also an example of an 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:31.520 animal who I think is intelligent. I'm not against hunting them, right, Like, 0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:35.560 I think that that's certainly in a lot of ways 0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:44.960 no more if less inhumane than factory farming. But if 0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:48.360 you have to cull a bunch of wild bore, right, 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:52.680 that's just more you're and it's not for using their meat, right, 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:56.840