Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Man,
Speaker 1: we are at an absolute skeleton crew on the bear
Speaker 1: Grease podcast. You say, some say skeleton, some say the
Speaker 1: dream team. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying dream team,
Speaker 1: dream team. It's hard. Hard to work with a diva,
Speaker 1: it really is. Yeah, We'll just keep churning through people.
Speaker 1: I don't know, conversation, maybe coincidence. Man, I you wouldn't
Speaker 1: believe who I invited today that they wouldn't come through names. No,
Speaker 1: just peep person after person or after per person. Maybe
Speaker 1: I should get somebody else to do that inviting. Give
Speaker 1: me the list next time. Maybe. No. We so typically
Speaker 1: on the Burglary Stringer we have six people today we
Speaker 1: have five. But it really is the dream I can
Speaker 1: stretch my legs out today at least. Yeah, a little
Speaker 1: bit sketchy to say this is a skeleton crew. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, for for for typically where we have six
Speaker 1: people wedged into one headset. That's kind of nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: ears interesting beginning. Dan had to totally fix one of
Speaker 1: our chairs. He was screwing together a chair. But hey,
Speaker 1: welcome to the burgery surrender. This is the this is
Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving addition of the burger surrender. Will happy? Thanks
Speaker 1: Glad you didn't skip over and go straight to Christmas.
Speaker 1: That's the way it's going to my house, and I'm
Speaker 1: not happy about it. Really, Hey man, my some of
Speaker 1: our the patrons of our town that we live in,
Speaker 1: like ten days before Thanksgiving, they've got Christmas lights up.
Speaker 1: Every time a Christmas decoration goes up before Thanksgiving, they
Speaker 1: throw a pilgrim off the shield every time. I hope
Speaker 1: you're happy community we live in, Yes, exactly, man. Every
Speaker 1: time I drive past it, I lecture my kids on
Speaker 1: why they need to dial it back a notch just
Speaker 1: to not we got to instill the right values and
Speaker 1: claim when people are wrong. Listen. I think that I
Speaker 1: think that we do need to have a community conversation
Speaker 1: about holiday did core in general, there is a big
Speaker 1: push and I don't know if this is appropriate to
Speaker 1: talk about on the Beggars podcast. But there's a big
Speaker 1: push for morbidity when it comes to it's like they
Speaker 1: wake up and they see their neighbors. I won't I
Speaker 1: won't speak of what they put in their yard. It's
Speaker 1: so gross and gruesome for Halloween. And then the other
Speaker 1: neighbors seem to think, oh, we should do that too,
Speaker 1: and there's like a domino effect. It's pretty well, there
Speaker 1: is a strong correlation and it goes back ancient ancient
Speaker 1: human social the way that we interact with each other socially. Okay,
Speaker 1: you go to any any any little town in the
Speaker 1: world in the United States, and you drove through the world,
Speaker 1: and if there's one family that does something really well,
Speaker 1: you'll usually find a cluster of families, and if you
Speaker 1: have history in that community, you'll you'll be like, hey,
Speaker 1: they used to be the only one that did that.
Speaker 1: What we're talking about is Halloween decor. Okay, there are
Speaker 1: people that are real comfortable like putting like skeletons, burning witches, headless,
Speaker 1: headless people in their front yard Halloween for a month.
Speaker 1: I have to drive by that just to go get groceries,
Speaker 1: Like I can't get milk without seeing something that is
Speaker 1: supposed to incite in us like, oh man, that's where
Speaker 1: we'll stop and we take our kids to go knock
Speaker 1: on the door. Thank you. Maybe maybe it's like that's
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do, is keep people from coming
Speaker 1: to their house. Maybe they don't even buy candle. People
Speaker 1: are so desensitized to it that you just see Halloween
Speaker 1: decor and you're like, oh god, these people are festive. No,
Speaker 1: that's like wildly inappropriate. Yeah, it's something else. So anyway,
Speaker 1: our neighbors put up from Christmas slides down here like
Speaker 1: way before Thanksgiving, and I appreciate the passion of it.
Speaker 1: We need a community conversation, But is three a group
Speaker 1: of people that you guys are Okay, that's what I
Speaker 1: want to just I feel like the open mindedness of
Speaker 1: the Newcomb household is off the charts. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's very open. We have some more community conversations, which
Speaker 1: I feel like would be rather one way from Clay
Speaker 1: and Misty to all the conversation is do what I
Speaker 1: say exactly, You got to have some got to have something.
Speaker 1: Let me let me let me introduce my our guests today.
Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Roupe to my left, good to see dr
Speaker 1: D what all good bear grease render participants are supposed
Speaker 1: to do. Bring the deer that they killed, the racks
Speaker 1: in nice skulls clean. Hey, my wife, I gotta give
Speaker 1: her most of the credits. Are you serious about the
Speaker 1: dreamal tools all the cavity out. Yeah, you'll never see
Speaker 1: a cleaner siinus cavity. And let's kaya gets ahold of up.
Speaker 1: Oh she even Jeremy top of it. Great, So we
Speaker 1: got anice eight point bucks in here, Josh, spellmakerdge didn't
Speaker 1: kill a deer, got a decent trout kill a deer. Ye,
Speaker 1: you're sporting a nice I like that Arkansas flag had
Speaker 1: like the trout on it. Like that. I do like that.
Speaker 1: So Josh Brent, Josh went with me to folsome New
Speaker 1: Mexico when we recorded this George mcjunkin podcast, basically a
Speaker 1: subject matter expert. Now, yeah, and still didn't didn't wasn't
Speaker 1: qualified enough to make it to the actual podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why couldn't you ask me a question? You could have?
Speaker 1: I mean, he was right there with you, and I
Speaker 1: was okay, there were more parts. Wasn't even going to
Speaker 1: bring this up. But now I've been put in the
Speaker 1: corner during during the middle of the interview with Kyle
Speaker 1: Bell and Matt Dowdry and Whorty Dougherty Doherty Doherty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was about I was about there is another way.
Speaker 1: There's lots of words I just can't say. Okay, do
Speaker 1: you guys know what the other word was from the pronation,
Speaker 1: because he definitely it's posthumous. I will say, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be hard to have community conversations if there are a
Speaker 1: lot of words that you can't say. Okay. Sorry, throwing
Speaker 1: it out to maybeing backed in a corner about Josh
Speaker 1: not being on the podcast. His voice actually was on
Speaker 1: the podcast and I had to yell at him across
Speaker 1: the museum, Hey, Josh, quiet, back there. He is back
Speaker 1: there talking to this other guy. So anyway you so
Speaker 1: you kind of were on the podcast. No, Josh broke
Speaker 1: with me out there. It was great having to travel,
Speaker 1: it was we had a great time. It was like whirlwind.
Speaker 1: We were out there for a very short amount of time.
Speaker 1: Drove there. I got there late at night, like after
Speaker 1: eleven or maybe even midnight, I can't remember. And then
Speaker 1: we were gone the next day by like two o'clock
Speaker 1: and got all that stuff for the podcast. So it
Speaker 1: was great. So Josh Billmaker, nice hat mustache is always,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Just speaking of people that I
Speaker 1: tried to get on this podcast, I invited Josh's wife,
Speaker 1: who was a dear friend of ours as well. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: she's way more important than me and couldn't make it.
Speaker 1: She is pretty important to Josh's left. Brent Reeves, Brent
Speaker 1: great to see you, Greetings, Hey, I want I'd like
Speaker 1: to call out Brent for Brent drives three hours one
Speaker 1: way to come to this podcast. He's basically three hours
Speaker 1: the other way going back. Now, just Brent's Brent, Brent's
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, yeah, that's a nice pair of overall,
Speaker 1: as you got on there, they're all nice to Brent's left.
Speaker 1: How many paw many? Yeah? I think it's a good question.
Speaker 1: One is six six one for every almost every day
Speaker 1: of the week, like the Sabbath. He's naked. Are we
Speaker 1: all edit that out? Kids? Close your ears, neighbors close.
Speaker 1: I just went to p. Twelve. That's brit on The
Speaker 1: thank you was wrapped in Christmas lies. I'll wear that
Speaker 1: bear skiing rug to Prince left, my lovely wife and
Speaker 1: Mr Newcom so great to be a part of all
Speaker 1: these conversations were being here. Thanks for so much. Dad
Speaker 1: would have been here, but he couldn't be here. That's all. Okay,
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of housekeeping items I have to
Speaker 1: I have to go through. Number one is meat Eater.
Speaker 1: The meat eater dot com right now has a massive
Speaker 1: Black Friday sale. So if you if you ever wanted
Speaker 1: anything for meat eat, now is the time to do it.
Speaker 1: They've got um so all their all their T shirts
Speaker 1: and stuff are like the big percentage off. Let's see,
Speaker 1: let's just go right through this off logo wearificant hundred
Speaker 1: dollars off Vortex, diamondback, three by five, ten by fifty rifles,
Speaker 1: scope hundred dollars off tex A lot of numbers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then, uh, this is what I would be most
Speaker 1: interested in if you were buying me a gift wink
Speaker 1: a knife if you're buying him a Halloween gift bundles Okay,
Speaker 1: Dan lost his bench made, so you get the survival
Speaker 1: guide and knife for a hundred and sixty five dollars. Uh.
Speaker 1: Butchering Big Game bundle is the meat Crafter knife which
Speaker 1: Josh has. Knife is really feels super nice in the hand.
Speaker 1: I wish you'd put it up. Everybody's out on my
Speaker 1: blood zone. So they have a lot of bundles, so
Speaker 1: you can check out you can check out the meat
Speaker 1: Eator Black Friday sale. I will also say that soon
Speaker 1: and very soon, there's gonna be a whole suite of
Speaker 1: Burgarase merchandise. Hats a bunch of stuff. So that's it's
Speaker 1: not available just yet, but it will be able. I'd
Speaker 1: like to see a T shirt with a mash up
Speaker 1: of me and Brent's face. That'd be good. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that one. Okay, Um, I got a I had a
Speaker 1: little bit of We haven't gone through much feedback um
Speaker 1: from you know, like iTunes reviews recently, and I've kind
Speaker 1: of made a habit not to do that. But I
Speaker 1: did have one guy that gave us a five star
Speaker 1: review but said he said, he said Clay four shadows
Speaker 1: way too much, and he said it's a great podcast.
Speaker 1: I love it, Clay four Shadows way too much. And
Speaker 1: when he said it, I knew exactly what he meant
Speaker 1: and and and I thought, man, this guy must just
Speaker 1: really love surprises. He must like he doesn't want me
Speaker 1: to tell what I'm about to tell in a cryptic statement.
Speaker 1: He just wants a surprise, Like he wouldn't want his
Speaker 1: wife to be like, honey, you're not gonna believe what
Speaker 1: we're gonna have for dinner. He would rather her just
Speaker 1: go for dinner. It's your favorite and he's like, bam,
Speaker 1: thank you. So he's talking about the falsome deal, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: this was this was This was a while back. This
Speaker 1: part two. When we find out what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. It is kind of because I
Speaker 1: said the same thing to Clay that I felt. So
Speaker 1: this is a while back, not not since the forth. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: no offense, but he might be right. Took a little
Speaker 1: bit of time. I just talking about the full sime.
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about like life with Clay. There might
Speaker 1: be Clay loves he loves suspense, he loves build up,
Speaker 1: he loves drama. And when you say you'll never guess
Speaker 1: what happened today, I don't know. My mind always goes
Speaker 1: to worst case scenarios, like do our kids all have
Speaker 1: their arms? We all are? We all still intacted? Anyway? Well,
Speaker 1: I thought it would be funny if I just started um,
Speaker 1: if every single sentence in the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: like any time I just dealt with people in like
Speaker 1: normal life foreshadowed. No, No, Like, we're about to have
Speaker 1: dinner and it's gonna blow your mind what we're gonna have.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna want to miss it. That was the
Speaker 1: best spaghetti of all time. But the dessert is going
Speaker 1: to take you to places you've never been said that
Speaker 1: if you could weave this dynamic into your community conversations,
Speaker 1: you're never gonna guess the standards that we have the community. Actually, Strea,
Speaker 1: you'll never guess the type of community we want to
Speaker 1: built here. Time for you to go to the grocery
Speaker 1: store without having to see that night. Yeah, you're welcome. No,
Speaker 1: I just thought it was funny. It was a good statement,
Speaker 1: you know what there there. It's really difficult to build
Speaker 1: a documentary style podcast, especially with somebody like George mcjunkin,
Speaker 1: because there's so many different facets of it. The whole
Speaker 1: premise of the series is not about George mcjunkin. It's
Speaker 1: about the fulsome sight. But I didn't want to spill
Speaker 1: all the beans about George right at the beginning. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I agree with it way too much. Foreshadow people today,
Speaker 1: they are instant information shadow to the day we all
Speaker 1: know you are. But people today you like you wonder something,
Speaker 1: you pick up the phone, you google it. I needs
Speaker 1: this right and now let me think about this, like no,
Speaker 1: let me type it out real quick. Get you answer.
Speaker 1: So you want the information instantly? You don't. You want
Speaker 1: to you don't want to wait around. And I get
Speaker 1: it because I was about to chew my arms off
Speaker 1: trying to think out what is this podcast about? And
Speaker 1: finally I still don't know what it was about. You've
Speaker 1: got to start listening to these things. Hey, okay, so
Speaker 1: moving on. I've just got a few little topics here
Speaker 1: of things I want to discuss. Did you did you?
Speaker 1: Did you guys here that they they have postponed quote
Speaker 1: unquote the bear season in Washington State. Care about that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: This is a serious This is a serious issue. No
Speaker 1: foreshadowing here. TC seventy four oh three on iTunes called
Speaker 1: him out. All his friends are gonna know. He's triggered.
Speaker 1: That's what we called him. In oh school, Washington State.
Speaker 1: They have they have a commission and right now the
Speaker 1: commission I believe has four seats in it and it's
Speaker 1: supposed to have vibe there's an unfilled seat, and so
Speaker 1: there can be issues that come up. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of decision where they just have to basically be at
Speaker 1: a standstill. Who kind of the question who chooses the
Speaker 1: people who occupy these seats? Well, that would be different
Speaker 1: for every state, and I'm not sure exactly how Washington
Speaker 1: how that works many of them, Like here in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: it's it's a point ease. This is like the su
Speaker 1: yeah in the state, exactly what it is. And so
Speaker 1: what what you have happening just on a if you're
Speaker 1: just looking at the national scale in the in in
Speaker 1: some of these different states, especially states that have big
Speaker 1: urban centers like Washington State would have Seattle. But what's
Speaker 1: happening is that where there are large urban centers like Seattle, Washington, Dan,
Speaker 1: that's where most of the state lives, like in terms
Speaker 1: of population. So these there's big, massive numbers of people
Speaker 1: that typically out number the the people in the rural
Speaker 1: areas of the state, or at least equivalent. Another example
Speaker 1: would be in Michigan where my friends at the Michigan
Speaker 1: Bear Hunters, they're constantly talking about, you know, the big
Speaker 1: cities in Michigan, Detroit and where there's these massive urban centers,
Speaker 1: and these people simply don't have an understanding of rural
Speaker 1: culture in the way things work in terms of wildlife management.
Speaker 1: Those urban centers are often easily preyed upon by those
Speaker 1: who have an agenda too that's not favorable to hunting
Speaker 1: in a significant way. There are animal rights groups like
Speaker 1: the Humane Society of the United States that have massive,
Speaker 1: massive budgets, I mean, like just an unbelievable amount of money.
Speaker 1: And where do you think they're going to spend their
Speaker 1: money in in trying to build their campaigns. They're gonna
Speaker 1: spend their money where they're gonna get banged for their buttons.
Speaker 1: And so they spend money in a lot of these
Speaker 1: urban centers in and pick specific things. And it's not
Speaker 1: always against hunting. Sometimes it's it's with confinement, agriculture or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know. They're they're involving a whole lot of different stuff,
Speaker 1: but hunting is definitely something they're involved in. And there's many, many,
Speaker 1: other even statewide groups that are affiliated with some of
Speaker 1: these bigger national groups. And basically you have this this
Speaker 1: thing where these urban centers end up controlling wildlife management
Speaker 1: in Michigan, Michigan is a referendum state, which means if
Speaker 1: you can get enough signatures on a cheat paper, you
Speaker 1: can get anything on the ballot. That's a very simplified version.
Speaker 1: If they can get a hundred thousand signatures, they can
Speaker 1: basically put vote on just about anything. In some states,
Speaker 1: like in Arkansas, all of our wildlife management is run
Speaker 1: by a commission, a sept a seven seated commission has understanding,
Speaker 1: so all the decisions of wildlife are made by them,
Speaker 1: not by just the average voter in the state. And
Speaker 1: so that's a good thing as long as your commissioners
Speaker 1: understand hunting, understand why life management are pro hunting, and
Speaker 1: you know, I have some sense. I'm not sure what's
Speaker 1: going on in Washington because there's there was a there's
Speaker 1: a four seat commission, and two of them voted to
Speaker 1: against having a spring bear season, and to them voted
Speaker 1: for it. And the way that it came up was
Speaker 1: the anti group started a lot of propaganda about spring
Speaker 1: bear seasons, just saying all this negative stuff. They put
Speaker 1: it up and it's now been postponed. And that's a
Speaker 1: tragedy because it may not seem like that a big
Speaker 1: a deal, but it is no secret that that that
Speaker 1: anti hunting agenda in this country is designed to break
Speaker 1: down our system incrementally incrementalization. They're not trying to, they can't.
Speaker 1: They're not just gonna shut down hunting. Was any of
Speaker 1: it based off of scientific research from the Department of
Speaker 1: Natural Resources or gaming fish gaming fishes is for it,
Speaker 1: and and it's a very very regulated season. It's a
Speaker 1: draw season. I went through and looked at the looked
Speaker 1: at the results of the hunt from the from the
Speaker 1: last several seasons, and basically it's not over the counter thing.
Speaker 1: You can't just go to Washington and buy a spring
Speaker 1: bear tag and go hunting. They have it looks like
Speaker 1: about fifteen different zones and each zone has allotted a
Speaker 1: certain number of permits, and it's very regulated. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that they sometimes have used against spring
Speaker 1: bear hunting is that you could shoot a sow with
Speaker 1: a cub, which just doesn't happen very very often. And
Speaker 1: when you look at the male to female kills in
Speaker 1: these different zones, there's a very high skew towards males
Speaker 1: being killed in that spring season. And they put spring
Speaker 1: seasons at such a time when it's gonna be much
Speaker 1: more likely that you're gonna kill a male earlier in
Speaker 1: the spring. The males are out roaming around a bunch
Speaker 1: more than the soles with cubs. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: just there's a bunch of science behind it. And um
Speaker 1: so I say all that to say, you know, we
Speaker 1: live in like this heyday seemingly of North American hunting,
Speaker 1: and we live in this also, this little time block
Speaker 1: of being humans where it's hard to see beyond that
Speaker 1: time block. And we may be like hunting is not
Speaker 1: that threatened, but it absolutely is. And and these guys
Speaker 1: in Washington or seeing that, but there's a chance that
Speaker 1: the spring bear hunt will come back. But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna work on some action steps for stuff that
Speaker 1: people can do. And you know, this is the phrase
Speaker 1: that we say all the time, guard the gate. And
Speaker 1: maybe if you new to the Burger's podcast, you've never
Speaker 1: heard of say that, but garden the gate. Predator hunting
Speaker 1: is the gate for the anti hunting sentiment wherever that
Speaker 1: comes from, to enter into our space as North American hunters.
Speaker 1: So if you looked at all the North American hunting,
Speaker 1: you looked at elk hunters, white to hunting, duck hunting,
Speaker 1: pheasant hunting, squirrel hunting, the place the entry point for
Speaker 1: people to crack into our little system that works so
Speaker 1: well and has been the absolute pinnacle of of human
Speaker 1: animal husbandry on planet Earth since humans have been here.
Speaker 1: The way they crack in is typically through predator hunting,
Speaker 1: bear hunting specifically. And so that's why we say bear
Speaker 1: hunting is the gate. And so if we we guard
Speaker 1: the gate by becoming informed and knowledgeable about why bear
Speaker 1: hunting makes sense, why it's sustainable, why it's scientifically backed,
Speaker 1: why it is just such a positive thing, you know.
Speaker 1: And I could go on all the all the talking
Speaker 1: and communicate with our legislators and a g FC commissioners
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and and yeah,
Speaker 1: so we say guard the gate. And so in Washington
Speaker 1: they're having a tough time, and there's gonna be some
Speaker 1: places where we can when the when when it comes
Speaker 1: back around and they have a full commission that can
Speaker 1: vote on it and actually make a decision, we could
Speaker 1: flog these guys emails and in different ways we can
Speaker 1: communicate with legislators and say, hey, this is a good thing.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense for us not to have
Speaker 1: the spring bear hunt there guard the gate. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: it's heavy, heavy topic right here before Thanksgiving speaking a
Speaker 1: heavy topic. If that chair that Dan sitting in the
Speaker 1: last to the end of this podcast crash, it is
Speaker 1: Daniel fall into the ground. He's got a handful of
Speaker 1: given this chair. I don't know what's going on for sure. Well,
Speaker 1: I just got back from Nebraska. Had a good white
Speaker 1: till hunt in Nebraska. Uh, it's pretty goot. I don't
Speaker 1: have that. I don't have That's an amazing white tail
Speaker 1: hunt in Nebraska. Yeah, that buck is the size of
Speaker 1: a truck. It the pictures didn't What about the body
Speaker 1: of the animal was big? Right? It was? They're not
Speaker 1: as big as you would think that. There was probably
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty pounds buck, probably maybe maybe a
Speaker 1: little bigger than that. It looked big. Yeah, it it Uh,
Speaker 1: it was a good buck. Had a good hunt with
Speaker 1: the media crew. You'll be able to see that hunt
Speaker 1: on season eleven of Meat Eater at some point, so
Speaker 1: that would be good. So, as you know, on the
Speaker 1: Beargrease Render, what we're doing is we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the last Bargeras podcast, which was part one. This
Speaker 1: is an interesting series because probably three. You won't believe,
Speaker 1: you won't believe how many podcasts there will be, just
Speaker 1: when you thought it was safe. The pot the series
Speaker 1: is about the fulsome archaeological site, but the whole first
Speaker 1: podcast wasn't about the fulsome site really much at all.
Speaker 1: It was about the man that found the falsome site.
Speaker 1: That's that makes it fun though, because it's gonna be
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really interesting. I have a question for you, Dan,
Speaker 1: define for me archaeology. It actually had this thought on
Speaker 1: the way here, like what is archaeology actually mean? Thank you, Josh,
Speaker 1: So I'm curious Dan. It's the study of material culture.
Speaker 1: So it's not just stuff that's dug up, but archaeology
Speaker 1: even present day you can look at material culture would
Speaker 1: look like our look at our phones or clothes, anything
Speaker 1: like that, material culture, but material human culture exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a material human. Nailed on the distinction there, because
Speaker 1: a paleontologist or paleontology would be what study of bones?
Speaker 1: Because that's I was trying to decipher the difference between
Speaker 1: paleontology and archaeology because was was George mcjunkin a paleontologist,
Speaker 1: an amateur paleontologist or archaeologist. Right, well, okay, and that's
Speaker 1: what queued me in. And I think in context, like
Speaker 1: if this had been on the A C. T test
Speaker 1: like we used to bring up because it was okay,
Speaker 1: if that question had been on a test, I would
Speaker 1: have got it right, Like what is rateology? Ap this serious?
Speaker 1: Because I'm really good at understanding context clues. But if
Speaker 1: you would have just said, write an essay on what
Speaker 1: archaeology is with no context clues, I might not don't know.
Speaker 1: Because Dr Meltzer said the the and we're gonna get
Speaker 1: to know. Dr Meltzer really good. On part two. Meltzer
Speaker 1: said that the site went from a paleontological site got
Speaker 1: into an archaeological site, so it transitioned when they found
Speaker 1: the human the human evidence, so material culture, So very good,
Speaker 1: Thank you man. Thanks Yeah, what did so? Josh? You
Speaker 1: went with me to Fulsom, New Mexico. Would you have
Speaker 1: known anything about the folsome side before that? I've never
Speaker 1: even heard about it. I never heard of George mcjunkin,
Speaker 1: never heard of the falsome side. It was fascinating, though, Dan,
Speaker 1: would you ever heard of the falsome side? You know,
Speaker 1: don't try to make us feel like you're smart because
Speaker 1: your doctor tell us the truth. I wondered if it
Speaker 1: was connected all with the Falsome prison blues. Did anybody
Speaker 1: else think that? Was just me? A lot of people
Speaker 1: that I said we went to Falsom, they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash, I was like nope. I was like, no,
Speaker 1: Justifornia different, different, Falsome altogether. Yeah, totally different. If you
Speaker 1: went to Folsom, there's nothing there. I mean it is
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, which made me think, good
Speaker 1: spot for a prison. Yeah, I can see that. No, No, okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't know a thing about it. Okay, good, that's
Speaker 1: good to know. See that's that's a good touch point too.
Speaker 1: Of the smartest people I know, I didn't know a
Speaker 1: thing about Folsom, New Mexico and breath a lot and
Speaker 1: say that, you know he knew about it. Watch this, Hey, Brent,
Speaker 1: did you know anything about Falsome? Yes? Absolutely? Have you
Speaker 1: been to Falsome? I would say in this room, if
Speaker 1: anybody had been to Falsome before, and I have to
Speaker 1: say that the spillmakers and the Newcombs have traveled a
Speaker 1: lot out west. Still, if anybody in this room that
Speaker 1: I would expect to have been at Falsome. I would say,
Speaker 1: went by. We went where the sun when we were
Speaker 1: out hunting was straight. Yeah, that's all the place to
Speaker 1: go out there. Now my familiar that counts as knowing
Speaker 1: a lot about Folsom. I didn't say, you asked me
Speaker 1: that I know about it? Yes, that that, Uh, my
Speaker 1: familiarization with it would be from the projectile points, air
Speaker 1: heads and artifacts Native American Stuff Club I've been We
Speaker 1: picked those up on our farm, from when I was
Speaker 1: picking up to pick up rocks and tell the difference
Speaker 1: between one and I should keeping one, I should throw
Speaker 1: up my brother and my brother is he is real?
Speaker 1: He's self taught about a lot of the different types
Speaker 1: of points, closed points and all the different different So
Speaker 1: you he you would have known that terminology like this
Speaker 1: whole some point. Yeah. Yeah, and just from from being
Speaker 1: interested and not from no one everything, but yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: just from a vein of interest that I have. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would have only probably known about it from the
Speaker 1: Mediator podcast a couple of years ago because Steve Ornella
Speaker 1: had David Meltzer. Dr David Meltzer, who will get to
Speaker 1: KNOWE a ton on about later. He had him on there.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping up with him. That's number twelve. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like when a friend of yours has a tick
Speaker 1: or like a little thing they do, and then somebody
Speaker 1: points it out and then all you can do is
Speaker 1: hear that, Thanks commenter, we're all stuck with the CEO
Speaker 1: of seven three four, Misty? Would you have known about
Speaker 1: the falsome stung? Because I'm married to you, I wouldn't know.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, oh, I know a whole lot about that,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't definitely have heard about it. And this
Speaker 1: is a lot. A lot of Clay's pillow talk is
Speaker 1: archaeological sites talking about the point. So talking about finding
Speaker 1: stone points. What's interesting is that the Falsome point. You
Speaker 1: could find a falsome point in my front yard. Did
Speaker 1: you know that? You could? Not? How she could? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Because the fulsome point we'll be talking about later. They
Speaker 1: found this style of point in Falsome, New Mexico. This
Speaker 1: style of point predated anything they've ever found in North
Speaker 1: America in terms of technology of stone points. So they
Speaker 1: pull this stone point out and they're like, holy cow,
Speaker 1: I have to I have to say, after seeing them
Speaker 1: handling them. They are beautiful stone points. They're they're really
Speaker 1: something to see the way that they're shaped. Like I've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stone points, I mean stone points
Speaker 1: you've found here comparatively, they're so delicate and sharp and
Speaker 1: just uniform, like they took a lot of skill to
Speaker 1: really make those. That was a great description. That was
Speaker 1: super Yeah, that was really that was great. But the
Speaker 1: reason you can find one here is that they then
Speaker 1: use the term falsome to describe a time period. It
Speaker 1: doesn't describe a region, It describes a time period of
Speaker 1: people that were here. But typically they find falsome points
Speaker 1: in the midwestern United Eights from well from like New
Speaker 1: Mexico too. You can find falsome points here in Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and it just it was it was a technology that
Speaker 1: a people of a certain time period used, So it
Speaker 1: just happened they found the first one there, so they
Speaker 1: named it falsome. That's the way that that's the way
Speaker 1: archaeologists think. So that's where the first ones were found.
Speaker 1: That's right, okay, But since then they found them other
Speaker 1: places all over the place. Interesting, yeah, all over the place.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to dive into deep on falsome
Speaker 1: because we'll be talking about it later. But George mcduncan
Speaker 1: though George mcjunkin is was a cool dude. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: I had never heard of him before, and I'm still
Speaker 1: surprised at how little there is known about the guy.
Speaker 1: But what a what a guy of character. I think
Speaker 1: that you know, there's a lot of people that are
Speaker 1: that are idolized in the world these days, some that
Speaker 1: are good, some that are not so great. But this
Speaker 1: is a guy that you can look at his life
Speaker 1: and say, there's a guy of integrity. There's a guy
Speaker 1: who who stuck with things. I really appreciate the fact
Speaker 1: that he he was He really went against the grain,
Speaker 1: you know, and I appreciate that about guys in that
Speaker 1: part of the world that life revolves around providing for
Speaker 1: your families and working hard and caring about others. Those
Speaker 1: are the things that are meaningful to me. And to
Speaker 1: see a guy like that who really went against the
Speaker 1: trends of the age and stood up for what was right.
Speaker 1: Super super cool guy. I mean, I appreciate the fact
Speaker 1: that I got to go with you just to to
Speaker 1: learn about him. These guys revere this guy, I mean,
Speaker 1: these old men just talk about him. With such reverence
Speaker 1: and and honor make themselves great. I picked up when
Speaker 1: I talked to Matt Dowd. He wasn't super convincing on
Speaker 1: the phone that he was the George mcjunkin expert of
Speaker 1: the world. He just kind of, I don't know, he
Speaker 1: just he wasn't just like putting all his cred out there.
Speaker 1: And finally I just asked him, I said, Hey, are
Speaker 1: you the guy I need to be talking? Just tell me,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, because I'm God, I want I
Speaker 1: need to find anything. And he was like, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, that's good enough for me.
Speaker 1: If you pretty much think you're that, that's good. We
Speaker 1: go there. He lives in the building that George mcjunkin
Speaker 1: died in. Turns out he's pretty much that guy, his grandfather.
Speaker 1: So there's a picture of George and you can find
Speaker 1: it online. It's in the book The Black Cowboy. There's
Speaker 1: a picture of George mcjunkin in the early nineteen hundreds
Speaker 1: standing on a porch, just a vertical picture, and there's
Speaker 1: a little you know, in Georgia's black. There's a little
Speaker 1: white baby at his feet, which toddler. That's a story
Speaker 1: right there is it not? And and little baby is
Speaker 1: Matt's grandfather. They just revered George, and Matt's grandmother is
Speaker 1: the one who basically collected intel on George's life. I mean,
Speaker 1: think about think about if a guy died, like just
Speaker 1: got down the street that you knew, and he died,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, five years after his
Speaker 1: death you realized that he had done something that changed
Speaker 1: our understanding of human history and was going to be
Speaker 1: in textbooks. You'd kind of be like, holy cow, we
Speaker 1: should have probably took a few more pictures, wrote down
Speaker 1: a few more dates, saved a few more letters, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's what's so interesting about George's is like his
Speaker 1: life just kind of passed by and they recognized that
Speaker 1: he was unique as a cowboy and all this. But anyway,
Speaker 1: Matt's grandmother was was the main source of info because
Speaker 1: she had saved correspondence. And that's just kind of neat.
Speaker 1: And so I said all that to say, these guys
Speaker 1: I really think of you to talk about about George mcjunkin.
Speaker 1: They would have fought you, would have touched you in
Speaker 1: the face, Cole Bell would have shot you with Okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this because when I was listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast, this was a question that I had.
Speaker 1: It's clear that they revere like you say, and it's
Speaker 1: clear that that was earned. And I know why I
Speaker 1: would think highly of him. Why do you think I
Speaker 1: feel like the intensity with which they respect George mc
Speaker 1: dunkin and to vote a lot of attention to him
Speaker 1: is pretty high and way above average for just someone
Speaker 1: that you respect. Why do you think that is? Two things? Okay,
Speaker 1: do you have an answer? I want to hear what
Speaker 1: you have to say. First. Two things. Might have tiny
Speaker 1: little bit of town folsom New Mexico, has like fifty
Speaker 1: people in it, and apparently there's some kind of political
Speaker 1: election going on there and it's pretty heated. Signs yea, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like a town of fifty and I think they're
Speaker 1: having a city council of election. There was a little
Speaker 1: mudslinging going on. Um, you stepped into that town and
Speaker 1: they just parted like a red one side to the other.
Speaker 1: So it's a small town and he is a hero
Speaker 1: of that town. Yeah, it's like the quarterback from you know,
Speaker 1: like n State championship and so they're they're like maybe
Speaker 1: if your quarterback was Uncle Riko have you never seen Okay,
Speaker 1: So it's a small town and he was a hero
Speaker 1: number one. Now Matt, it's a small town and he's
Speaker 1: the hero. But this was a family friend that they
Speaker 1: were endeared to. Actually they you you you mentioned in
Speaker 1: They're the flood that revealed the bones. There was another
Speaker 1: there's a there's a plaque right near near the museum.
Speaker 1: But she was the switchboard operator and she stood. She
Speaker 1: stayed at the operator things so she could call people
Speaker 1: and let them know that the flood was coming until
Speaker 1: she died in the flood. Yeah, pretty amazing story. So
Speaker 1: the flood that uncovered the Fulsome site was really a
Speaker 1: unique flood and we wouldn't have this kind of stuff here.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't even raining in Fulsome to Mexico, but
Speaker 1: it had rained on Johnson Mesa, which is twenty miles away.
Speaker 1: Fourteen inches of rain fell. Just like man that flash flood.
Speaker 1: This water just comes rushing, it's not even raining. It's like,
Speaker 1: why would people even be that worried about it? Here
Speaker 1: it is Sarah Sally J. Rourke, heroine of the Dry
Speaker 1: Simarron Flood. On the night of August while working as
Speaker 1: a telephone operator, Sally received a call that a wall
Speaker 1: of water was rushing down the dry Simarron River towards Fulsome.
Speaker 1: She perished that storm it it's like blurry, She perished
Speaker 1: that stormy night at her switchboard, warning of the dangerous sounding,
Speaker 1: saving countless lives. Telephone operators across the country contributed dimes
Speaker 1: to honor their colleague with a memorial. Did you know
Speaker 1: they found her body a year later, like miles downstream
Speaker 1: with feet sticking out of the ground. No way, I
Speaker 1: don't think you should do your fingers like that. Telling
Speaker 1: the story also Andy Griffith, the telephone operator. The operat
Speaker 1: on there, Sarah was named after their lady. No, I'm
Speaker 1: lying as the words were coming out of my mouth. Really,
Speaker 1: I was like, you're really hypnotazing voice, even though you
Speaker 1: know you wanted to be just It would have been
Speaker 1: cool though, it would have been really would have been
Speaker 1: a great story. Dan, what did you think about the podcast?
Speaker 1: I was with Misty a little bit. It took me. I,
Speaker 1: first of all, always prefer the podcasts that are about
Speaker 1: peop so the Panther one previously. I think that was
Speaker 1: great and it and it was finishing up on Warren. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, I thought, okay, agree, we get a person.
Speaker 1: You know, I like that, like a story, like a person.
Speaker 1: But I was trying to kind of get my mind
Speaker 1: around what we were talking about. What we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, as I get it, there's there's some bones
Speaker 1: and there's points in there. And but what I what
Speaker 1: One of the things that kind of struck out to me.
Speaker 1: Stuck out to me was you're living in a day
Speaker 1: and age where everything is I guess. And of course,
Speaker 1: now like the worst thing you could ever say here,
Speaker 1: I am a white man. The worst thing I could
Speaker 1: ever say is I don't see color, you know, warm,
Speaker 1: color blind or whatever. That's like the last thing we
Speaker 1: should like, I not. We need to be able to
Speaker 1: be aware of that and see it and interact with it.
Speaker 1: And um. But I think hearing them them so when
Speaker 1: they were first saying that, I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: what's going on. We're not supposed to say that anymore.
Speaker 1: But then the more they talked about it back you know,
Speaker 1: three or four generation sings ago, when everything you're doing
Speaker 1: is practical skills, it really would have been a realm
Speaker 1: for a man of color to kind of move up
Speaker 1: the ranks and then here and how it was actually
Speaker 1: the Mexican cowboys that really welcomed him in and taught him.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just thought it would a
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to hear this story at a
Speaker 1: time when race is such a big deal in our country,
Speaker 1: and so part of me was like, man, that's so great,
Speaker 1: because here's this man who, on the basis of merit,
Speaker 1: was able to display his character and was welcomed in.
Speaker 1: But then at the end of his life, you know,
Speaker 1: it was kind of sad to hear that he never
Speaker 1: married because even though we don't see color, there's not
Speaker 1: a white woman around it's going to marry this guy,
Speaker 1: you know, it was It's just just complex, and it's
Speaker 1: just entering into history and a and a guy's story.
Speaker 1: I think it's really when you hear stories like that,
Speaker 1: when you got to the end and they started talking
Speaker 1: about him not being able to to find a wife.
Speaker 1: You know, you watch the Disney or the Hollywood versions
Speaker 1: of these these heroes and people who went through civil
Speaker 1: rights movements or things like that, and sometimes they they
Speaker 1: attempt to show the difficulty of it. That would be
Speaker 1: a tough thing to show the difficulty of in a
Speaker 1: movie like that. You know, there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that we really uh don't appreciate and and couldn't appreciate
Speaker 1: that they had to sacrifice too to pursue the lifestyle
Speaker 1: that they pursued. And I don't even know if they
Speaker 1: would have had an opportunity to count those costs, you
Speaker 1: know that, I don't know that that would have been
Speaker 1: a logical thing that you would think through. Let's see
Speaker 1: what you're saying. So you're saying, like in a Hollywood
Speaker 1: version of racism, like triumphant, like someone like chanting racial
Speaker 1: slurs in the street, would be something that would be
Speaker 1: very You could look at that, yeah you could. But
Speaker 1: the other side of it that is a harder story
Speaker 1: to tell is a is a man that never marries
Speaker 1: because of and I think it cause people to not
Speaker 1: appreciate the difficulties, the interpersonal difficulties that people go through
Speaker 1: to rise above the you know, to the ceilings that
Speaker 1: are are put there for them at whatever time that
Speaker 1: they find themselves in the reason we like George mcjuncan
Speaker 1: is because he exceeded expectations and he exceeded the boundaries
Speaker 1: that were placed on him. And he did it, like
Speaker 1: Dan said on Merit, and he was he was able
Speaker 1: to he like you said in the podcast, he clearly
Speaker 1: had social tex like he had a whole skill set
Speaker 1: of things that allowed him to reach what what he
Speaker 1: reached and chie what he achieved. That same skill set
Speaker 1: would be a skill set that would really want to
Speaker 1: be married. I mean that that that social ability and
Speaker 1: all that that tells you this guy wants to have
Speaker 1: a family. He wants to to be married, and he did.
Speaker 1: In the book, it says that like his whole life,
Speaker 1: he wanted to have a family. Yeah, and that's a
Speaker 1: cost that he It's hard to it's hard to capture.
Speaker 1: It's it's just hard to take into account the loss.
Speaker 1: To me, it's hard to it's hard to really feel that.
Speaker 1: And when when you went into that part of the podcast, asked,
Speaker 1: it was just really sad to me that that part
Speaker 1: of it, it made me. It made me sad for him.
Speaker 1: You know, here's another interesting aspect of George mcjuncan is
Speaker 1: we would have never known who he was had he
Speaker 1: not found once in a how many gazillion lifetime archaeological site.
Speaker 1: The only reason that he's in the Cowboy Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame honestly is because we know it knew his name
Speaker 1: because and I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be
Speaker 1: in He's not in the Cowboy Hall of Fame because
Speaker 1: of that in Cowboy Hall of Fame because of the
Speaker 1: way rons his life, his ability to be a cowboy.
Speaker 1: But I think if you're really looking at it, the
Speaker 1: only reason we knew him and people told the story
Speaker 1: a hundred years later, it was because he he found
Speaker 1: something that how many humans have been in America for
Speaker 1: the last ten thousand years and one of them found
Speaker 1: an archaeological site that rewrote human well a couple now,
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of but like point being, how
Speaker 1: many George mcjenkins are out there that just weren't the
Speaker 1: one that found something that made him super famous, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting that, uh that George mcjunkin for
Speaker 1: until nineteen seventy two wasn't even credited with that find.
Speaker 1: It was the archaeologist that came from Denver that that
Speaker 1: went and went and viewed the site shortly shortly after,
Speaker 1: within a couple of years after George mc mcjunkin's death,
Speaker 1: and then um they he he and a colleague were
Speaker 1: credited with that find, and it wasn't until nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: two that George mcjunkin was actually credited with it. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what impressed me most about it. I think
Speaker 1: somebody would eventually found that site. He didn't have to
Speaker 1: be George mcjunkin. I was most impressed with the story
Speaker 1: of him deciding to do something in a time that
Speaker 1: was hard. He decided he wanted to read and write,
Speaker 1: so he put himself in a position to learn that.
Speaker 1: He set a goal, and he was gold oriented and
Speaker 1: solely focused on making himself a better human being. And
Speaker 1: he did that, and he did that in the time
Speaker 1: when it was hard, and today you know it's so different.
Speaker 1: Were people gripe about the spoon that they're being fed with,
Speaker 1: about the size of spoon back when that cat didn't
Speaker 1: have a spoon, And people, regardless of their situation, they
Speaker 1: can if you work hard enough, things shouldn't be easy.
Speaker 1: Things should be hard, and you should have to work
Speaker 1: for it. You probably shouldn't have to work for it
Speaker 1: as hard as George did, but he did it, and
Speaker 1: he didn't. Nowhere in that podcast did I hear one
Speaker 1: person say anything or tell a story that that George
Speaker 1: sat around and said, man, I had it tough coming up.
Speaker 1: It was it was always what was gonna be happening
Speaker 1: down the road, he said is And once he reached that,
Speaker 1: just from my summation of it, once he reached that
Speaker 1: goal of educating himself, it didn't stop. He wanted to
Speaker 1: do more, and he wanted to do more. He saw
Speaker 1: he'd but he did find those bones that side, and
Speaker 1: he thought he didn't think it was just bones. He
Speaker 1: knew he knew enough to say, hey, somebody ought to
Speaker 1: check this out. They never did in his lifetime, but
Speaker 1: it was just I think he is a great inspiration
Speaker 1: for what a thirst of knowledge can do for somebody,
Speaker 1: regardless of the situation there in that impressed me the most. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought David Meltzer did a good he had a
Speaker 1: good angle. It's interesting talking to so many people about
Speaker 1: one person and you get this kind of little snippets.
Speaker 1: But David Meltzer said that George mcjunkin was one of
Speaker 1: a hundred of of cowboys that would have even got
Speaker 1: off their horse to look at a bone. And again,
Speaker 1: George didn't see thirty two bison and tick with bones.
Speaker 1: He saw just a handful of bones sticking out of
Speaker 1: the dirt down in this arroyo, and uh, just you know,
Speaker 1: did the cure curiosity to get off of it, get
Speaker 1: off his horse and go down there? And look was
Speaker 1: the curiosity is a thirst for knowing, for knowing, finding
Speaker 1: out what something is, you know, And that that never
Speaker 1: that fire never went out because here he was he
Speaker 1: had probably surpassed anything that he could have possibly dreamed
Speaker 1: of doing growing up as a slave. Here, I am
Speaker 1: the boss, I am the boss of this ranch. Why
Speaker 1: do I need to do more? But yet his curiosity
Speaker 1: never stopped. It was it was really cool. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I kind of I'm I'm very interested in the in
Speaker 1: the Native American part and the folsome stuff, but I
Speaker 1: kind of hate to see this chapter close on him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, that's the thing about George. There's not a
Speaker 1: lot of intel on him. You know. This one book, uh,
Speaker 1: The Black Cowboy is, as far as I know, the
Speaker 1: only book that's written about him. And uh, there's some
Speaker 1: other snippets of intel in a few different places, but
Speaker 1: most of it is is most of us in that book.
Speaker 1: I assume he's buried. Did a cemetery. That's where he
Speaker 1: was buried. That he's buried, He's buried and fulsome and
Speaker 1: I wish we could have gone to the his grave. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't in his house yeah, or where his house
Speaker 1: was his house was Yeah. That was also so sad.
Speaker 1: Yet a man you just got a handful of possessions
Speaker 1: and burns down. Yeah, because he took that skull. You
Speaker 1: think that's what it was. Did anybody catch my joke
Speaker 1: when I said, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer,
Speaker 1: but I want to talk about this part of George's life.
Speaker 1: And then when I ended, I said, thanks, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: we caught. I think it's spend money. Who are you
Speaker 1: hoping that we would bring that on? Our favorite part
Speaker 1: all this up. Now, that one part where you referred
Speaker 1: back to the seamlessly, that one really got me. One
Speaker 1: of the funniest things I've ever been a part of
Speaker 1: my entire life. I was a part of a business
Speaker 1: networking organization back when I had a landscape company, and
Speaker 1: one day it's so it's this super awkward deal where
Speaker 1: we had breakfast every couple of once a week with
Speaker 1: all these business owners in the community. And I was
Speaker 1: a young guy trying to start this business. So I
Speaker 1: was going, there's like twenty people in the room, and
Speaker 1: somebody gives some like terrible news about something like like
Speaker 1: every week you had to stand up and talk about
Speaker 1: your business. And I really don't remember what I said,
Speaker 1: but a guy stood up and said, I hate to
Speaker 1: be a Debbie Downer, but you know I want bankrupt.
Speaker 1: And mother law's house burned down to kill somebody by
Speaker 1: and the place just goes silent, Like twenty people that
Speaker 1: don't know each other just goes silent, and uh my
Speaker 1: c p A who was there who invited me to
Speaker 1: break the silence. After like seconds of just awkward silence,
Speaker 1: he goes, thanks a lot. Damn. I never forgot so
Speaker 1: anytime someone says I don't want to be a Debbie
Speaker 1: down there, I go thanks. So I watched people's faces,
Speaker 1: a couple of people that I was with when I
Speaker 1: listened to the podcast, and they never even got it.
Speaker 1: They've never even registered in our minds. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of hidden clues insot the Burgeries podcast. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of I'll just say it's possibly one of the
Speaker 1: people he was watching. There's a lot of pressure to
Speaker 1: listen to the bearers in front of Clay. Does he
Speaker 1: sit there like, just watch every red you get? Did
Speaker 1: you get? Absolutely? Dude, I'm sorry to know why you
Speaker 1: guys don't see many movies. A whole lot of Missy
Speaker 1: listen to this. It's more like, Missy, you'll never guess
Speaker 1: what he's about to say. You'll never Yes, Well, the
Speaker 1: podcast was adequate. I think it's pretty thank you Gary.
Speaker 1: The yeah two bad Dad's not here. He could really
Speaker 1: could really put me into place. I'm sure you caught it.
Speaker 1: He caught it. He was not amused. It was an
Speaker 1: okay podcast, that's what it said. Okay. I thought it
Speaker 1: was a good podcast, and I'm glad you did it.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad. I think that you understand foreshadowing here,
Speaker 1: um that once you hear the second one, you kind
Speaker 1: of understand the significance of this contribution he made in
Speaker 1: a way that you don't understand after the first one,
Speaker 1: which is the great part about the two parter. And
Speaker 1: and so you'll you'll we'll all come to appreciate him.
Speaker 1: I think that we all appreciate him as it stands
Speaker 1: just for me, the cowboy, I mean, like just for
Speaker 1: what he just for his life, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's also super valuable for someone to live their life
Speaker 1: in such a way that gracious, there's people devoted to
Speaker 1: it and to preserving the honor of what he did.
Speaker 1: And so that speaks volumes in particularly of a man
Speaker 1: who was born into the world at a time that
Speaker 1: he was born into it where it was harder for
Speaker 1: him to reach those those that that level of respect
Speaker 1: than it would have been other people. And so I
Speaker 1: think in and of itself, his life without the discovery
Speaker 1: of this other thing, really without understanding the significance of it,
Speaker 1: was a life that was worthy to be covered on
Speaker 1: The Barriers podcast. People deserve to be remembered, regardless of
Speaker 1: they make an impact. Good people make an impact period.
Speaker 1: His his would be a global impact from what he found,
Speaker 1: but he obviously had a impact on that community because
Speaker 1: all those people loved, so they deserve to be remembered.
Speaker 1: It really is remarkable the loyalty that that whole family
Speaker 1: feels to him and that the people in that community
Speaker 1: feel to him. And that's that is that is notable,
Speaker 1: that's significant. Are we going to get to hear more
Speaker 1: from the Streus Kyle Bell, Nope, We're done. We're done
Speaker 1: with that, remember him. That's how he said that, Nope,
Speaker 1: we're done with him. That that guy is a character.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. And that photo of him, I thinking
Speaker 1: of the right guy braids with the leather straps when
Speaker 1: you described him on the podcast. And then I saw
Speaker 1: I can't remember where I saw a little video of
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, that guy. We followed him all
Speaker 1: over all over that ranch looking for the Falesome site.
Speaker 1: It's kind of in a weird place. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: kind of got turned around. So the Falsome site, you
Speaker 1: actually you can't go to it. It's not like a
Speaker 1: national park or something. It's there's a public, publicly owned
Speaker 1: ten acres that the Falsome site is on. So it
Speaker 1: is the Falsome site is on public land, but it's
Speaker 1: landlocked by private so there's no legal access to get
Speaker 1: in there. We had to get from and from the
Speaker 1: ranch owner to get back. And there's nothing to see
Speaker 1: there either. Yeah, you would never know you were at
Speaker 1: the fulsome side. It just looks like a patch of
Speaker 1: grass and a ditch fence. Well there's there. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a big fence around it to keep the cattle off
Speaker 1: of this ranch off of it just so it's digs
Speaker 1: out there. No, well, yes they will one day. What's
Speaker 1: what I learned from Dr Meltzer is that archaeological sites
Speaker 1: there is like etiquette, their rules in the way archaeological
Speaker 1: sites are now developed or excavated, and they purposefully leave
Speaker 1: some stuff for technology that maybe we can't even foresee
Speaker 1: that in a hundred years from now somebody will be
Speaker 1: able to go back in and learn more, which is
Speaker 1: just bizarre to me. So the way it's the way
Speaker 1: it worked was that the site was excavated in nine
Speaker 1: and that was the first time he was excavated, and
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of people involved in that, and
Speaker 1: then that was it, and it was a multi year process.
Speaker 1: And then David Meltzer, Dr David Meltzer from s m
Speaker 1: U in Dallas, he basically built a case for why
Speaker 1: they needed to go back and do a second excavation
Speaker 1: of the fulsome site. And I don't know what people
Speaker 1: and processes you have to go through, but he got
Speaker 1: permission and they went in and did like a multi
Speaker 1: year second excavation of the site and learned a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of new stuff and now they had radio curbon dating.
Speaker 1: They did not find any points though, and then when
Speaker 1: Steve Ronnella was there, Yeah, yeah, when Ronnella was there,
Speaker 1: after Meltzer did his did his excavation, Steve said they
Speaker 1: were standing there at the fulsome site and he looked
Speaker 1: down and there was a bone sticking out the dirt
Speaker 1: for real, and he he said, he's so bad, wanted
Speaker 1: to go over there and pull it out, and the
Speaker 1: archaeologists that he was with was like, don't touch it.
Speaker 1: So there's something connected to that phone, and archaeology is
Speaker 1: a little honory man, Poor Steve. What if that's like
Speaker 1: the finding of the of the century and he was
Speaker 1: robbed of he'll get credited with it in fifty years. Okay,
Speaker 1: no one will remember Steve Ronnella for his media or
Speaker 1: for all his accolades. They'll go he's he's the guy
Speaker 1: that found that one media guy that horse got out
Speaker 1: of his subaru and walked down to look at that bone.
Speaker 1: They're also going to remember that he's two and a
Speaker 1: half feet taller than you are. From that Instagram video
Speaker 1: that photo he was on a stool. He was, he
Speaker 1: was so Okay, if you're not up to date on
Speaker 1: what it's being spoken up here. There was a video
Speaker 1: that leaked out um of Stephen Ellan debating a painting
Speaker 1: and he was standing on he had the higher ground.
Speaker 1: He was on the milk, and it looked like so
Speaker 1: in this in this living room, there was you know,
Speaker 1: how wood stove will be setting up off the ground.
Speaker 1: To have like a like a rock platform that it's
Speaker 1: sitting up on, it had to be a pretty high platform.
Speaker 1: Is six inches. Maybe he was three ft taller than
Speaker 1: he was standing on that rock platform, Dan, And were
Speaker 1: you kneeling before? I don't know. It was he's taller
Speaker 1: than me for sure, not like a foot taller than me. Way,
Speaker 1: he's he's more than a foot taller than that photo.
Speaker 1: Oh man. But the good news is is that I
Speaker 1: was right. Oh gosh, it was even. And then but
Speaker 1: then Steve comes up with this whole thing about death
Speaker 1: of the author. Have you all heard about death of
Speaker 1: the author. It's like an artist does a painting or
Speaker 1: a writer write something, and even their intent doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: What matters is how it's perceived by the reader. So
Speaker 1: they call it death of the author. So you could read,
Speaker 1: you could look at a painting and go that's morning.
Speaker 1: And then the author chimes in on Instagram and says, no,
Speaker 1: it's actually evening. Even though you thought it was more
Speaker 1: than Steve and trying to tell you that it's what happened.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. And then but then death of
Speaker 1: the author means that, and Steve brought this up. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what author thinks, it's what your perception is
Speaker 1: as Yeah, Brent was with me the whole time. Thanks Brent.
Speaker 1: How many times does this exact phenomenon happen as you
Speaker 1: are looking at your neighbor's Halloween decora, death of the authors?
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to feed my family. That's how those
Speaker 1: community conversations are going to go. Listen if you could
Speaker 1: have seen it, Brent, literally literally there was skeletons in
Speaker 1: lawn chairs, a fire, a fake fire across with a
Speaker 1: burning witch. People in the lawn chairs had a dog
Speaker 1: leash that was connected to the skeleton of a dog.
Speaker 1: That's one. Until you described the dead dog, I was with,
Speaker 1: why are we celebrating this? Okay? George mcdonkin, I love
Speaker 1: what's so great about all this is I'm learning inside
Speaker 1: of all this as well. You know, it's it's pretty
Speaker 1: fascinating to explore these unique people and really dive in
Speaker 1: deep and understand who they are. He's laughing. Why are
Speaker 1: we laughing? MS are you're thinking he's not learned a
Speaker 1: dang day. I think that Clay probably wanted to edit
Speaker 1: out my initial comments about the Halloween and we just
Speaker 1: keep bringing it back up. By the way he was looking,
Speaker 1: it is like the episode Halloween. Happy to say, Happy Thanksgiving?
Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving. No. I enjoyed, enjoyed learning about George mun Junkan.
Speaker 1: These guys I'll never forget. I feel like when I
Speaker 1: look into anybody, whether it's James, Lawrence Warner, Glenn Roy Clark,
Speaker 1: Britt Davis, all these guys. I mean, part of being
Speaker 1: human is that we don't live in isolation and we
Speaker 1: can look at people's lives and glean stuff from it.
Speaker 1: I mean, how stupid would you be to think that
Speaker 1: you're just this independent guy that's just gonna build your
Speaker 1: life based upon no influence from somebody else. I want
Speaker 1: to be influenced by guy like George. I mean when
Speaker 1: he I mean he he dealt with stuff that I'll
Speaker 1: never deal with. But he was he he just was
Speaker 1: dead said on what he wanted to do I appreciate
Speaker 1: guys that are just gritty and tough. I do. I'm
Speaker 1: a sucker for gritty and tough, and man, if you're
Speaker 1: a good BRONC writer, you're gritty and tough. If you're
Speaker 1: a black guy back in the eighteen hundreds that is
Speaker 1: way up inside of the ranching community in this area,
Speaker 1: you gotta be pretty gritty. And then his his grittiness
Speaker 1: to learn how to read and write when a lot
Speaker 1: of people probably weren't. Just I respect the guy. He
Speaker 1: was funny too, he had he had a good sense
Speaker 1: of humor and just like him, I'm gonna incorporate that
Speaker 1: into my life. Yeah, and if you're ever and fulsome
Speaker 1: go to the museum. It's pretty cool, it is. I
Speaker 1: was surprised he walked around while I was making a
Speaker 1: bunch of noise while you were trying to record a podcast,
Speaker 1: and there was a piece of art in there that
Speaker 1: was donated by somebody from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Yeah. I was like,
Speaker 1: look at that. But yeah, fascinating stuff from historic stuff too,
Speaker 1: fossils to everything, World War two stuff. Yeah, pretty cool. Cool,
Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody. You are welcome, wild places, wild it's
Speaker 1: pretty crazy.