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Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production

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Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render,

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Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Man,

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Speaker 1: we are at an absolute skeleton crew on the bear

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Speaker 1: Grease podcast. You say, some say skeleton, some say the

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Speaker 1: dream team. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying dream team,

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Speaker 1: dream team. It's hard. Hard to work with a diva,

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Speaker 1: it really is. Yeah, We'll just keep churning through people.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, conversation, maybe coincidence. Man, I you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: believe who I invited today that they wouldn't come through names. No,

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Speaker 1: just peep person after person or after per person. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I should get somebody else to do that inviting. Give

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Speaker 1: me the list next time. Maybe. No. We so typically

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Speaker 1: on the Burglary Stringer we have six people today we

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Speaker 1: have five. But it really is the dream I can

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Speaker 1: stretch my legs out today at least. Yeah, a little

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Speaker 1: bit sketchy to say this is a skeleton crew. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, for for for typically where we have six

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Speaker 1: people wedged into one headset. That's kind of nice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ears interesting beginning. Dan had to totally fix one of

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Speaker 1: our chairs. He was screwing together a chair. But hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the burgery surrender. This is the this is

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Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving addition of the burger surrender. Will happy? Thanks

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Speaker 1: Glad you didn't skip over and go straight to Christmas.

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Speaker 1: That's the way it's going to my house, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not happy about it. Really, Hey man, my some of

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Speaker 1: our the patrons of our town that we live in,

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Speaker 1: like ten days before Thanksgiving, they've got Christmas lights up.

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Speaker 1: Every time a Christmas decoration goes up before Thanksgiving, they

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Speaker 1: throw a pilgrim off the shield every time. I hope

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Speaker 1: you're happy community we live in, Yes, exactly, man. Every

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Speaker 1: time I drive past it, I lecture my kids on

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Speaker 1: why they need to dial it back a notch just

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Speaker 1: to not we got to instill the right values and

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Speaker 1: claim when people are wrong. Listen. I think that I

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Speaker 1: think that we do need to have a community conversation

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Speaker 1: about holiday did core in general, there is a big

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Speaker 1: push and I don't know if this is appropriate to

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Speaker 1: talk about on the Beggars podcast. But there's a big

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Speaker 1: push for morbidity when it comes to it's like they

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Speaker 1: wake up and they see their neighbors. I won't I

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Speaker 1: won't speak of what they put in their yard. It's

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Speaker 1: so gross and gruesome for Halloween. And then the other

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Speaker 1: neighbors seem to think, oh, we should do that too,

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Speaker 1: and there's like a domino effect. It's pretty well, there

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Speaker 1: is a strong correlation and it goes back ancient ancient

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Speaker 1: human social the way that we interact with each other socially. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you go to any any any little town in the

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Speaker 1: world in the United States, and you drove through the world,

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Speaker 1: and if there's one family that does something really well,

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Speaker 1: you'll usually find a cluster of families, and if you

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Speaker 1: have history in that community, you'll you'll be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: they used to be the only one that did that.

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Speaker 1: What we're talking about is Halloween decor. Okay, there are

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Speaker 1: people that are real comfortable like putting like skeletons, burning witches, headless,

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Speaker 1: headless people in their front yard Halloween for a month.

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Speaker 1: I have to drive by that just to go get groceries,

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Speaker 1: Like I can't get milk without seeing something that is

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Speaker 1: supposed to incite in us like, oh man, that's where

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Speaker 1: we'll stop and we take our kids to go knock

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Speaker 1: on the door. Thank you. Maybe maybe it's like that's

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to do, is keep people from coming

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Speaker 1: to their house. Maybe they don't even buy candle. People

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Speaker 1: are so desensitized to it that you just see Halloween

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Speaker 1: decor and you're like, oh god, these people are festive. No,

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Speaker 1: that's like wildly inappropriate. Yeah, it's something else. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: our neighbors put up from Christmas slides down here like

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Speaker 1: way before Thanksgiving, and I appreciate the passion of it.

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Speaker 1: We need a community conversation, But is three a group

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Speaker 1: of people that you guys are Okay, that's what I

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Speaker 1: want to just I feel like the open mindedness of

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Speaker 1: the Newcomb household is off the charts. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's very open. We have some more community conversations, which

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Speaker 1: I feel like would be rather one way from Clay

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Speaker 1: and Misty to all the conversation is do what I

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Speaker 1: say exactly, You got to have some got to have something.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me let me introduce my our guests today.

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Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Roupe to my left, good to see dr

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Speaker 1: D what all good bear grease render participants are supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. Bring the deer that they killed, the racks

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Speaker 1: in nice skulls clean. Hey, my wife, I gotta give

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Speaker 1: her most of the credits. Are you serious about the

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Speaker 1: dreamal tools all the cavity out. Yeah, you'll never see

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Speaker 1: a cleaner siinus cavity. And let's kaya gets ahold of up.

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Speaker 1: Oh she even Jeremy top of it. Great, So we

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Speaker 1: got anice eight point bucks in here, Josh, spellmakerdge didn't

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Speaker 1: kill a deer, got a decent trout kill a deer. Ye,

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Speaker 1: you're sporting a nice I like that Arkansas flag had

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Speaker 1: like the trout on it. Like that. I do like that.

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Speaker 1: So Josh Brent, Josh went with me to folsome New

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Speaker 1: Mexico when we recorded this George mcjunkin podcast, basically a

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Speaker 1: subject matter expert. Now, yeah, and still didn't didn't wasn't

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Speaker 1: qualified enough to make it to the actual podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why couldn't you ask me a question? You could have?

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was right there with you, and I

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Speaker 1: was okay, there were more parts. Wasn't even going to

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Speaker 1: bring this up. But now I've been put in the

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Speaker 1: corner during during the middle of the interview with Kyle

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Speaker 1: Bell and Matt Dowdry and Whorty Dougherty Doherty Doherty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was about I was about there is another way.

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Speaker 1: There's lots of words I just can't say. Okay, do

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Speaker 1: you guys know what the other word was from the pronation,

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Speaker 1: because he definitely it's posthumous. I will say, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be hard to have community conversations if there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of words that you can't say. Okay. Sorry, throwing

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Speaker 1: it out to maybeing backed in a corner about Josh

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Speaker 1: not being on the podcast. His voice actually was on

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Speaker 1: the podcast and I had to yell at him across

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Speaker 1: the museum, Hey, Josh, quiet, back there. He is back

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Speaker 1: there talking to this other guy. So anyway you so

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Speaker 1: you kind of were on the podcast. No, Josh broke

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Speaker 1: with me out there. It was great having to travel,

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Speaker 1: it was we had a great time. It was like whirlwind.

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Speaker 1: We were out there for a very short amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Drove there. I got there late at night, like after

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Speaker 1: eleven or maybe even midnight, I can't remember. And then

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Speaker 1: we were gone the next day by like two o'clock

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Speaker 1: and got all that stuff for the podcast. So it

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Speaker 1: was great. So Josh Billmaker, nice hat mustache is always,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Just speaking of people that I

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Speaker 1: tried to get on this podcast, I invited Josh's wife,

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Speaker 1: who was a dear friend of ours as well. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: she's way more important than me and couldn't make it.

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Speaker 1: She is pretty important to Josh's left. Brent Reeves, Brent

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Speaker 1: great to see you, Greetings, Hey, I want I'd like

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Speaker 1: to call out Brent for Brent drives three hours one

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Speaker 1: way to come to this podcast. He's basically three hours

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Speaker 1: the other way going back. Now, just Brent's Brent, Brent's

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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, yeah, that's a nice pair of overall,

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Speaker 1: as you got on there, they're all nice to Brent's left.

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Speaker 1: How many paw many? Yeah? I think it's a good question.

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Speaker 1: One is six six one for every almost every day

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Speaker 1: of the week, like the Sabbath. He's naked. Are we

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Speaker 1: all edit that out? Kids? Close your ears, neighbors close.

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Speaker 1: I just went to p. Twelve. That's brit on The

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Speaker 1: thank you was wrapped in Christmas lies. I'll wear that

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Speaker 1: bear skiing rug to Prince left, my lovely wife and

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Speaker 1: Mr Newcom so great to be a part of all

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Speaker 1: these conversations were being here. Thanks for so much. Dad

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Speaker 1: would have been here, but he couldn't be here. That's all. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of housekeeping items I have to

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Speaker 1: I have to go through. Number one is meat Eater.

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Speaker 1: The meat eater dot com right now has a massive

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Speaker 1: Black Friday sale. So if you if you ever wanted

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Speaker 1: anything for meat eat, now is the time to do it.

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Speaker 1: They've got um so all their all their T shirts

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Speaker 1: and stuff are like the big percentage off. Let's see,

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Speaker 1: let's just go right through this off logo wearificant hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars off Vortex, diamondback, three by five, ten by fifty rifles,

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Speaker 1: scope hundred dollars off tex A lot of numbers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then, uh, this is what I would be most

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Speaker 1: interested in if you were buying me a gift wink

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Speaker 1: a knife if you're buying him a Halloween gift bundles Okay,

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Speaker 1: Dan lost his bench made, so you get the survival

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Speaker 1: guide and knife for a hundred and sixty five dollars. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Butchering Big Game bundle is the meat Crafter knife which

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Speaker 1: Josh has. Knife is really feels super nice in the hand.

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Speaker 1: I wish you'd put it up. Everybody's out on my

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Speaker 1: blood zone. So they have a lot of bundles, so

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Speaker 1: you can check out you can check out the meat

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Speaker 1: Eator Black Friday sale. I will also say that soon

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Speaker 1: and very soon, there's gonna be a whole suite of

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Speaker 1: Burgarase merchandise. Hats a bunch of stuff. So that's it's

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Speaker 1: not available just yet, but it will be able. I'd

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Speaker 1: like to see a T shirt with a mash up

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Speaker 1: of me and Brent's face. That'd be good. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one. Okay, Um, I got a I had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of We haven't gone through much feedback um

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Speaker 1: from you know, like iTunes reviews recently, and I've kind

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Speaker 1: of made a habit not to do that. But I

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Speaker 1: did have one guy that gave us a five star

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Speaker 1: review but said he said, he said Clay four shadows

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Speaker 1: way too much, and he said it's a great podcast.

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Speaker 1: I love it, Clay four Shadows way too much. And

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Speaker 1: when he said it, I knew exactly what he meant

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Speaker 1: and and and I thought, man, this guy must just

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Speaker 1: really love surprises. He must like he doesn't want me

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Speaker 1: to tell what I'm about to tell in a cryptic statement.

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Speaker 1: He just wants a surprise, Like he wouldn't want his

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Speaker 1: wife to be like, honey, you're not gonna believe what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have for dinner. He would rather her just

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Speaker 1: go for dinner. It's your favorite and he's like, bam,

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Speaker 1: thank you. So he's talking about the falsome deal, right, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this was this was This was a while back. This

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Speaker 1: part two. When we find out what we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. It is kind of because I

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Speaker 1: said the same thing to Clay that I felt. So

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Speaker 1: this is a while back, not not since the forth. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: no offense, but he might be right. Took a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time. I just talking about the full sime.

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about like life with Clay. There might

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Speaker 1: be Clay loves he loves suspense, he loves build up,

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Speaker 1: he loves drama. And when you say you'll never guess

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Speaker 1: what happened today, I don't know. My mind always goes

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Speaker 1: to worst case scenarios, like do our kids all have

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Speaker 1: their arms? We all are? We all still intacted? Anyway? Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought it would be funny if I just started um,

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Speaker 1: if every single sentence in the rest of my life,

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Speaker 1: like any time I just dealt with people in like

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Speaker 1: normal life foreshadowed. No, No, Like, we're about to have

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Speaker 1: dinner and it's gonna blow your mind what we're gonna have.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna want to miss it. That was the

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Speaker 1: best spaghetti of all time. But the dessert is going

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Speaker 1: to take you to places you've never been said that

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Speaker 1: if you could weave this dynamic into your community conversations,

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Speaker 1: you're never gonna guess the standards that we have the community. Actually, Strea,

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Speaker 1: you'll never guess the type of community we want to

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Speaker 1: built here. Time for you to go to the grocery

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Speaker 1: store without having to see that night. Yeah, you're welcome. No,

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Speaker 1: I just thought it was funny. It was a good statement,

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Speaker 1: you know what there there. It's really difficult to build

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Speaker 1: a documentary style podcast, especially with somebody like George mcjunkin,

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Speaker 1: because there's so many different facets of it. The whole

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Speaker 1: premise of the series is not about George mcjunkin. It's

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Speaker 1: about the fulsome sight. But I didn't want to spill

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Speaker 1: all the beans about George right at the beginning. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I agree with it way too much. Foreshadow people today,

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Speaker 1: they are instant information shadow to the day we all

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Speaker 1: know you are. But people today you like you wonder something,

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Speaker 1: you pick up the phone, you google it. I needs

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Speaker 1: this right and now let me think about this, like no,

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Speaker 1: let me type it out real quick. Get you answer.

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Speaker 1: So you want the information instantly? You don't. You want

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Speaker 1: to you don't want to wait around. And I get

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Speaker 1: it because I was about to chew my arms off

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Speaker 1: trying to think out what is this podcast about? And

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Speaker 1: finally I still don't know what it was about. You've

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Speaker 1: got to start listening to these things. Hey, okay, so

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Speaker 1: moving on. I've just got a few little topics here

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Speaker 1: of things I want to discuss. Did you did you?

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Speaker 1: Did you guys here that they they have postponed quote

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Speaker 1: unquote the bear season in Washington State. Care about that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: This is a serious This is a serious issue. No

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Speaker 1: foreshadowing here. TC seventy four oh three on iTunes called

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Speaker 1: him out. All his friends are gonna know. He's triggered.

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Speaker 1: That's what we called him. In oh school, Washington State.

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Speaker 1: They have they have a commission and right now the

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Speaker 1: commission I believe has four seats in it and it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to have vibe there's an unfilled seat, and so

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Speaker 1: there can be issues that come up. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: of decision where they just have to basically be at

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Speaker 1: a standstill. Who kind of the question who chooses the

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Speaker 1: people who occupy these seats? Well, that would be different

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Speaker 1: for every state, and I'm not sure exactly how Washington

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Speaker 1: how that works many of them, Like here in Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a point ease. This is like the su

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Speaker 1: yeah in the state, exactly what it is. And so

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Speaker 1: what what you have happening just on a if you're

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Speaker 1: just looking at the national scale in the in in

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Speaker 1: some of these different states, especially states that have big

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Speaker 1: urban centers like Washington State would have Seattle. But what's

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Speaker 1: happening is that where there are large urban centers like Seattle, Washington, Dan,

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Speaker 1: that's where most of the state lives, like in terms

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Speaker 1: of population. So these there's big, massive numbers of people

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Speaker 1: that typically out number the the people in the rural

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Speaker 1: areas of the state, or at least equivalent. Another example

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Speaker 1: would be in Michigan where my friends at the Michigan

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunters, they're constantly talking about, you know, the big

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Speaker 1: cities in Michigan, Detroit and where there's these massive urban centers,

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Speaker 1: and these people simply don't have an understanding of rural

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Speaker 1: culture in the way things work in terms of wildlife management.

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Speaker 1: Those urban centers are often easily preyed upon by those

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Speaker 1: who have an agenda too that's not favorable to hunting

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Speaker 1: in a significant way. There are animal rights groups like

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Speaker 1: the Humane Society of the United States that have massive,

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Speaker 1: massive budgets, I mean, like just an unbelievable amount of money.

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Speaker 1: And where do you think they're going to spend their

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Speaker 1: money in in trying to build their campaigns. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: spend their money where they're gonna get banged for their buttons.

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Speaker 1: And so they spend money in a lot of these

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Speaker 1: urban centers in and pick specific things. And it's not

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Speaker 1: always against hunting. Sometimes it's it's with confinement, agriculture or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know. They're they're involving a whole lot of different stuff,

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Speaker 1: but hunting is definitely something they're involved in. And there's many, many,

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Speaker 1: other even statewide groups that are affiliated with some of

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Speaker 1: these bigger national groups. And basically you have this this

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Speaker 1: thing where these urban centers end up controlling wildlife management

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Speaker 1: in Michigan, Michigan is a referendum state, which means if

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Speaker 1: you can get enough signatures on a cheat paper, you

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Speaker 1: can get anything on the ballot. That's a very simplified version.

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Speaker 1: If they can get a hundred thousand signatures, they can

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Speaker 1: basically put vote on just about anything. In some states,

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Speaker 1: like in Arkansas, all of our wildlife management is run

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Speaker 1: by a commission, a sept a seven seated commission has understanding,

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Speaker 1: so all the decisions of wildlife are made by them,

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Speaker 1: not by just the average voter in the state. And

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Speaker 1: so that's a good thing as long as your commissioners

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Speaker 1: understand hunting, understand why life management are pro hunting, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I have some sense. I'm not sure what's

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Speaker 1: going on in Washington because there's there was a there's

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Speaker 1: a four seat commission, and two of them voted to

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Speaker 1: against having a spring bear season, and to them voted

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Speaker 1: for it. And the way that it came up was

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Speaker 1: the anti group started a lot of propaganda about spring

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Speaker 1: bear seasons, just saying all this negative stuff. They put

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Speaker 1: it up and it's now been postponed. And that's a

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Speaker 1: tragedy because it may not seem like that a big

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Speaker 1: a deal, but it is no secret that that that

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Speaker 1: anti hunting agenda in this country is designed to break

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Speaker 1: down our system incrementally incrementalization. They're not trying to, they can't.

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Speaker 1: They're not just gonna shut down hunting. Was any of

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Speaker 1: it based off of scientific research from the Department of

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Speaker 1: Natural Resources or gaming fish gaming fishes is for it,

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Speaker 1: and and it's a very very regulated season. It's a

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Speaker 1: draw season. I went through and looked at the looked

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Speaker 1: at the results of the hunt from the from the

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Speaker 1: last several seasons, and basically it's not over the counter thing.

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Speaker 1: You can't just go to Washington and buy a spring

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Speaker 1: bear tag and go hunting. They have it looks like

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Speaker 1: about fifteen different zones and each zone has allotted a

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Speaker 1: certain number of permits, and it's very regulated. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that they sometimes have used against spring

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Speaker 1: bear hunting is that you could shoot a sow with

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Speaker 1: a cub, which just doesn't happen very very often. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at the male to female kills in

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Speaker 1: these different zones, there's a very high skew towards males

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Speaker 1: being killed in that spring season. And they put spring

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Speaker 1: seasons at such a time when it's gonna be much

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Speaker 1: more likely that you're gonna kill a male earlier in

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Speaker 1: the spring. The males are out roaming around a bunch

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Speaker 1: more than the soles with cubs. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just there's a bunch of science behind it. And um

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Speaker 1: so I say all that to say, you know, we

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Speaker 1: live in like this heyday seemingly of North American hunting,

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Speaker 1: and we live in this also, this little time block

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Speaker 1: of being humans where it's hard to see beyond that

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Speaker 1: time block. And we may be like hunting is not

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Speaker 1: that threatened, but it absolutely is. And and these guys

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Speaker 1: in Washington or seeing that, but there's a chance that

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Speaker 1: the spring bear hunt will come back. But uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna work on some action steps for stuff that

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Speaker 1: people can do. And you know, this is the phrase

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Speaker 1: that we say all the time, guard the gate. And

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Speaker 1: maybe if you new to the Burger's podcast, you've never

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Speaker 1: heard of say that, but garden the gate. Predator hunting

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Speaker 1: is the gate for the anti hunting sentiment wherever that

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Speaker 1: comes from, to enter into our space as North American hunters.

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Speaker 1: So if you looked at all the North American hunting,

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Speaker 1: you looked at elk hunters, white to hunting, duck hunting,

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Speaker 1: pheasant hunting, squirrel hunting, the place the entry point for

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Speaker 1: people to crack into our little system that works so

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Speaker 1: well and has been the absolute pinnacle of of human

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Speaker 1: animal husbandry on planet Earth since humans have been here.

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Speaker 1: The way they crack in is typically through predator hunting,

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Speaker 1: bear hunting specifically. And so that's why we say bear

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Speaker 1: hunting is the gate. And so if we we guard

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Speaker 1: the gate by becoming informed and knowledgeable about why bear

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Speaker 1: hunting makes sense, why it's sustainable, why it's scientifically backed,

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Speaker 1: why it is just such a positive thing, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I could go on all the all the talking

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Speaker 1: and communicate with our legislators and a g FC commissioners

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and and yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we say guard the gate. And so in Washington

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Speaker 1: they're having a tough time, and there's gonna be some

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Speaker 1: places where we can when the when when it comes

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Speaker 1: back around and they have a full commission that can

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Speaker 1: vote on it and actually make a decision, we could

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Speaker 1: flog these guys emails and in different ways we can

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Speaker 1: communicate with legislators and say, hey, this is a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense for us not to have

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Speaker 1: the spring bear hunt there guard the gate. Yeah. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's heavy, heavy topic right here before Thanksgiving speaking a

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Speaker 1: heavy topic. If that chair that Dan sitting in the

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Speaker 1: last to the end of this podcast crash, it is

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Speaker 1: Daniel fall into the ground. He's got a handful of

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Speaker 1: given this chair. I don't know what's going on for sure. Well,

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Speaker 1: I just got back from Nebraska. Had a good white

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Speaker 1: till hunt in Nebraska. Uh, it's pretty goot. I don't

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Speaker 1: have that. I don't have That's an amazing white tail

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Speaker 1: hunt in Nebraska. Yeah, that buck is the size of

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Speaker 1: a truck. It the pictures didn't What about the body

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Speaker 1: of the animal was big? Right? It was? They're not

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Speaker 1: as big as you would think that. There was probably

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Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty pounds buck, probably maybe maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bigger than that. It looked big. Yeah, it it Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was a good buck. Had a good hunt with

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Speaker 1: the media crew. You'll be able to see that hunt

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Speaker 1: on season eleven of Meat Eater at some point, so

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Speaker 1: that would be good. So, as you know, on the

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Speaker 1: Beargrease Render, what we're doing is we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the last Bargeras podcast, which was part one. This

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Speaker 1: is an interesting series because probably three. You won't believe,

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Speaker 1: you won't believe how many podcasts there will be, just

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Speaker 1: when you thought it was safe. The pot the series

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Speaker 1: is about the fulsome archaeological site, but the whole first

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Speaker 1: podcast wasn't about the fulsome site really much at all.

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Speaker 1: It was about the man that found the falsome site.

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Speaker 1: That's that makes it fun though, because it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be really interesting. I have a question for you, Dan,

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Speaker 1: define for me archaeology. It actually had this thought on

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Speaker 1: the way here, like what is archaeology actually mean? Thank you, Josh,

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious Dan. It's the study of material culture.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just stuff that's dug up, but archaeology

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Speaker 1: even present day you can look at material culture would

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Speaker 1: look like our look at our phones or clothes, anything

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Speaker 1: like that, material culture, but material human culture exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're a material human. Nailed on the distinction there, because

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Speaker 1: a paleontologist or paleontology would be what study of bones?

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Speaker 1: Because that's I was trying to decipher the difference between

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Speaker 1: paleontology and archaeology because was was George mcjunkin a paleontologist,

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Speaker 1: an amateur paleontologist or archaeologist. Right, well, okay, and that's

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Speaker 1: what queued me in. And I think in context, like

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Speaker 1: if this had been on the A C. T test

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Speaker 1: like we used to bring up because it was okay,

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Speaker 1: if that question had been on a test, I would

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Speaker 1: have got it right, Like what is rateology? Ap this serious?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm really good at understanding context clues. But if

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Speaker 1: you would have just said, write an essay on what

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Speaker 1: archaeology is with no context clues, I might not don't know.

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Speaker 1: Because Dr Meltzer said the the and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to know. Dr Meltzer really good. On part two. Meltzer

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Speaker 1: said that the site went from a paleontological site got

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Speaker 1: into an archaeological site, so it transitioned when they found

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Speaker 1: the human the human evidence, so material culture, So very good,

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Speaker 1: Thank you man. Thanks Yeah, what did so? Josh? You

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Speaker 1: went with me to Fulsom, New Mexico. Would you have

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Speaker 1: known anything about the folsome side before that? I've never

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Speaker 1: even heard about it. I never heard of George mcjunkin,

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Speaker 1: never heard of the falsome side. It was fascinating, though, Dan,

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Speaker 1: would you ever heard of the falsome side? You know,

424
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: don't try to make us feel like you're smart because

425
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: your doctor tell us the truth. I wondered if it

426
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: was connected all with the Falsome prison blues. Did anybody

427
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: else think that? Was just me? A lot of people

428
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: that I said we went to Falsom, they were like, yeah,

429
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: Johnny Cash, I was like nope. I was like, no,

430
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: Justifornia different, different, Falsome altogether. Yeah, totally different. If you

431
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: went to Folsom, there's nothing there. I mean it is

432
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, which made me think, good

433
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: spot for a prison. Yeah, I can see that. No, No, okay,

434
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: I didn't know a thing about it. Okay, good, that's

435
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: good to know. See that's that's a good touch point too.

436
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: Of the smartest people I know, I didn't know a

437
00:27:52,640 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: thing about Folsom, New Mexico and breath a lot and

438
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: say that, you know he knew about it. Watch this, Hey, Brent,

439
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: did you know anything about Falsome? Yes? Absolutely? Have you

440
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: been to Falsome? I would say in this room, if

441
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: anybody had been to Falsome before, and I have to

442
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: say that the spillmakers and the Newcombs have traveled a

443
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: lot out west. Still, if anybody in this room that

444
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: I would expect to have been at Falsome. I would say,

445
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: went by. We went where the sun when we were

446
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: out hunting was straight. Yeah, that's all the place to

447
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: go out there. Now my familiar that counts as knowing

448
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: a lot about Folsom. I didn't say, you asked me

449
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: that I know about it? Yes, that that, Uh, my

450
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: familiarization with it would be from the projectile points, air

451
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: heads and artifacts Native American Stuff Club I've been We

452
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: picked those up on our farm, from when I was

453
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: picking up to pick up rocks and tell the difference

454
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: between one and I should keeping one, I should throw

455
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: up my brother and my brother is he is real?

456
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: He's self taught about a lot of the different types

457
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: of points, closed points and all the different different So

458
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: you he you would have known that terminology like this

459
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: whole some point. Yeah. Yeah, and just from from being

460
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: interested and not from no one everything, but yeah, exactly,

461
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: just from a vein of interest that I have. Yeah.

462
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: I would have only probably known about it from the

463
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: Mediator podcast a couple of years ago because Steve Ornella

464
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: had David Meltzer. Dr David Meltzer, who will get to

465
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: KNOWE a ton on about later. He had him on there.

466
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm keeping up with him. That's number twelve. It's kind

467
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: of like when a friend of yours has a tick

468
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: or like a little thing they do, and then somebody

469
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: points it out and then all you can do is

470
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: hear that, Thanks commenter, we're all stuck with the CEO

471
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: of seven three four, Misty? Would you have known about

472
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: the falsome stung? Because I'm married to you, I wouldn't know.

473
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, oh, I know a whole lot about that,

474
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't definitely have heard about it. And this

475
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: is a lot. A lot of Clay's pillow talk is

476
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: archaeological sites talking about the point. So talking about finding

477
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: stone points. What's interesting is that the Falsome point. You

478
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: could find a falsome point in my front yard. Did

479
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: you know that? You could? Not? How she could? Yeah?

480
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: Because the fulsome point we'll be talking about later. They

481
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: found this style of point in Falsome, New Mexico. This

482
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: style of point predated anything they've ever found in North

483
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: America in terms of technology of stone points. So they

484
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: pull this stone point out and they're like, holy cow,

485
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: I have to I have to say, after seeing them

486
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: handling them. They are beautiful stone points. They're they're really

487
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: something to see the way that they're shaped. Like I've

488
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stone points, I mean stone points

489
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: you've found here comparatively, they're so delicate and sharp and

490
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: just uniform, like they took a lot of skill to

491
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: really make those. That was a great description. That was

492
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: super Yeah, that was really that was great. But the

493
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: reason you can find one here is that they then

494
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: use the term falsome to describe a time period. It

495
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: doesn't describe a region, It describes a time period of

496
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: people that were here. But typically they find falsome points

497
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: in the midwestern United Eights from well from like New

498
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: Mexico too. You can find falsome points here in Arkansas,

499
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: and it just it was it was a technology that

500
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: a people of a certain time period used, So it

501
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: just happened they found the first one there, so they

502
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: named it falsome. That's the way that that's the way

503
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: archaeologists think. So that's where the first ones were found.

504
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: That's right, okay, But since then they found them other

505
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: places all over the place. Interesting, yeah, all over the place.

506
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: But I don't want to dive into deep on falsome

507
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: because we'll be talking about it later. But George mcduncan

508
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: though George mcjunkin is was a cool dude. I'm surprised

509
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: I had never heard of him before, and I'm still

510
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: surprised at how little there is known about the guy.

511
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: But what a what a guy of character. I think

512
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 1: that you know, there's a lot of people that are

513
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: that are idolized in the world these days, some that

514
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: are good, some that are not so great. But this

515
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: is a guy that you can look at his life

516
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: and say, there's a guy of integrity. There's a guy

517
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: who who stuck with things. I really appreciate the fact

518
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: that he he was He really went against the grain,

519
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, and I appreciate that about guys in that

520
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: part of the world that life revolves around providing for

521
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: your families and working hard and caring about others. Those

522
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: are the things that are meaningful to me. And to

523
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: see a guy like that who really went against the

524
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: trends of the age and stood up for what was right.

525
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: Super super cool guy. I mean, I appreciate the fact

526
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: that I got to go with you just to to

527
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: learn about him. These guys revere this guy, I mean,

528
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: these old men just talk about him. With such reverence

529
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,239
Speaker 1: and and honor make themselves great. I picked up when

530
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: I talked to Matt Dowd. He wasn't super convincing on

531
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: the phone that he was the George mcjunkin expert of

532
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: the world. He just kind of, I don't know, he

533
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: just he wasn't just like putting all his cred out there.

534
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: And finally I just asked him, I said, Hey, are

535
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: you the guy I need to be talking? Just tell me,

536
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, because I'm God, I want I

537
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: need to find anything. And he was like, yeah, pretty much.

538
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, that's good enough for me.

539
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: If you pretty much think you're that, that's good. We

540
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: go there. He lives in the building that George mcjunkin

541
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: died in. Turns out he's pretty much that guy, his grandfather.

542
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: So there's a picture of George and you can find

543
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: it online. It's in the book The Black Cowboy. There's

544
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: a picture of George mcjunkin in the early nineteen hundreds

545
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: standing on a porch, just a vertical picture, and there's

546
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: a little you know, in Georgia's black. There's a little

547
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: white baby at his feet, which toddler. That's a story

548
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: right there is it not? And and little baby is

549
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Matt's grandfather. They just revered George, and Matt's grandmother is

550
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: the one who basically collected intel on George's life. I mean,

551
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: think about think about if a guy died, like just

552
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: got down the street that you knew, and he died,

553
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, five years after his

554
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: death you realized that he had done something that changed

555
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: our understanding of human history and was going to be

556
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: in textbooks. You'd kind of be like, holy cow, we

557
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: should have probably took a few more pictures, wrote down

558
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: a few more dates, saved a few more letters, you know.

559
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: And that's what's so interesting about George's is like his

560
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: life just kind of passed by and they recognized that

561
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: he was unique as a cowboy and all this. But anyway,

562
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: Matt's grandmother was was the main source of info because

563
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: she had saved correspondence. And that's just kind of neat.

564
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: And so I said all that to say, these guys

565
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: I really think of you to talk about about George mcjunkin.

566
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: They would have fought you, would have touched you in

567
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: the face, Cole Bell would have shot you with Okay,

568
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: let me ask you this because when I was listening

569
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: to the podcast, this was a question that I had.

570
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: It's clear that they revere like you say, and it's

571
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: clear that that was earned. And I know why I

572
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: would think highly of him. Why do you think I

573
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: feel like the intensity with which they respect George mc

574
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: dunkin and to vote a lot of attention to him

575
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: is pretty high and way above average for just someone

576
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: that you respect. Why do you think that is? Two things? Okay,

577
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: do you have an answer? I want to hear what

578
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: you have to say. First. Two things. Might have tiny

579
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: little bit of town folsom New Mexico, has like fifty

580
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: people in it, and apparently there's some kind of political

581
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: election going on there and it's pretty heated. Signs yea, yeah, yeah, yeah.

582
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: It's like a town of fifty and I think they're

583
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: having a city council of election. There was a little

584
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: mudslinging going on. Um, you stepped into that town and

585
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: they just parted like a red one side to the other.

586
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: So it's a small town and he is a hero

587
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: of that town. Yeah, it's like the quarterback from you know,

588
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: like n State championship and so they're they're like maybe

589
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: if your quarterback was Uncle Riko have you never seen Okay,

590
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: So it's a small town and he was a hero

591
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: number one. Now Matt, it's a small town and he's

592
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: the hero. But this was a family friend that they

593
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: were endeared to. Actually they you you you mentioned in

594
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: They're the flood that revealed the bones. There was another

595
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: there's a there's a plaque right near near the museum.

596
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: But she was the switchboard operator and she stood. She

597
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: stayed at the operator things so she could call people

598
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: and let them know that the flood was coming until

599
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: she died in the flood. Yeah, pretty amazing story. So

600
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: the flood that uncovered the Fulsome site was really a

601
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: unique flood and we wouldn't have this kind of stuff here.

602
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: But it wasn't even raining in Fulsome to Mexico, but

603
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: it had rained on Johnson Mesa, which is twenty miles away.

604
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: Fourteen inches of rain fell. Just like man that flash flood.

605
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: This water just comes rushing, it's not even raining. It's like,

606
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: why would people even be that worried about it? Here

607
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: it is Sarah Sally J. Rourke, heroine of the Dry

608
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: Simarron Flood. On the night of August while working as

609
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: a telephone operator, Sally received a call that a wall

610
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: of water was rushing down the dry Simarron River towards Fulsome.

611
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: She perished that storm it it's like blurry, She perished

612
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: that stormy night at her switchboard, warning of the dangerous sounding,

613
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: saving countless lives. Telephone operators across the country contributed dimes

614
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: to honor their colleague with a memorial. Did you know

615
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: they found her body a year later, like miles downstream

616
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: with feet sticking out of the ground. No way, I

617
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: don't think you should do your fingers like that. Telling

618
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: the story also Andy Griffith, the telephone operator. The operat

619
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: on there, Sarah was named after their lady. No, I'm

620
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: lying as the words were coming out of my mouth. Really,

621
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: I was like, you're really hypnotazing voice, even though you

622
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: know you wanted to be just It would have been

623
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: cool though, it would have been really would have been

624
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: a great story. Dan, what did you think about the podcast?

625
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: I was with Misty a little bit. It took me. I,

626
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: first of all, always prefer the podcasts that are about

627
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: peop so the Panther one previously. I think that was

628
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: great and it and it was finishing up on Warren. Um.

629
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: But you know, I thought, okay, agree, we get a person.

630
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: You know, I like that, like a story, like a person.

631
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: But I was trying to kind of get my mind

632
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: around what we were talking about. What we're talking about,

633
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, as I get it, there's there's some bones

634
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: and there's points in there. And but what I what

635
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: One of the things that kind of struck out to me.

636
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: Stuck out to me was you're living in a day

637
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: and age where everything is I guess. And of course,

638
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: now like the worst thing you could ever say here,

639
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: I am a white man. The worst thing I could

640
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: ever say is I don't see color, you know, warm,

641
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: color blind or whatever. That's like the last thing we

642
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: should like, I not. We need to be able to

643
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: be aware of that and see it and interact with it.

644
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: And um. But I think hearing them them so when

645
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: they were first saying that, I was like, wait a minute,

646
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: what's going on. We're not supposed to say that anymore.

647
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: But then the more they talked about it back you know,

648
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: three or four generation sings ago, when everything you're doing

649
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: is practical skills, it really would have been a realm

650
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: for a man of color to kind of move up

651
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: the ranks and then here and how it was actually

652
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: the Mexican cowboys that really welcomed him in and taught him.

653
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just thought it would a

654
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to hear this story at a

655
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: time when race is such a big deal in our country,

656
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: and so part of me was like, man, that's so great,

657
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: because here's this man who, on the basis of merit,

658
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: was able to display his character and was welcomed in.

659
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: But then at the end of his life, you know,

660
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: it was kind of sad to hear that he never

661
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: married because even though we don't see color, there's not

662
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: a white woman around it's going to marry this guy,

663
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: you know, it was It's just just complex, and it's

664
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: just entering into history and a and a guy's story.

665
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: I think it's really when you hear stories like that,

666
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: when you got to the end and they started talking

667
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: about him not being able to to find a wife.

668
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: You know, you watch the Disney or the Hollywood versions

669
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: of these these heroes and people who went through civil

670
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: rights movements or things like that, and sometimes they they

671
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: attempt to show the difficulty of it. That would be

672
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: a tough thing to show the difficulty of in a

673
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: movie like that. You know, there's a lot of stuff

674
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: that we really uh don't appreciate and and couldn't appreciate

675
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: that they had to sacrifice too to pursue the lifestyle

676
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: that they pursued. And I don't even know if they

677
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: would have had an opportunity to count those costs, you

678
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: know that, I don't know that that would have been

679
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: a logical thing that you would think through. Let's see

680
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: what you're saying. So you're saying, like in a Hollywood

681
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: version of racism, like triumphant, like someone like chanting racial

682
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: slurs in the street, would be something that would be

683
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: very You could look at that, yeah you could. But

684
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: the other side of it that is a harder story

685
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: to tell is a is a man that never marries

686
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: because of and I think it cause people to not

687
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: appreciate the difficulties, the interpersonal difficulties that people go through

688
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: to rise above the you know, to the ceilings that

689
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: are are put there for them at whatever time that

690
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: they find themselves in the reason we like George mcjuncan

691
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: is because he exceeded expectations and he exceeded the boundaries

692
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: that were placed on him. And he did it, like

693
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: Dan said on Merit, and he was he was able

694
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: to he like you said in the podcast, he clearly

695
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: had social tex like he had a whole skill set

696
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: of things that allowed him to reach what what he

697
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: reached and chie what he achieved. That same skill set

698
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: would be a skill set that would really want to

699
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: be married. I mean that that that social ability and

700
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: all that that tells you this guy wants to have

701
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: a family. He wants to to be married, and he did.

702
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: In the book, it says that like his whole life,

703
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: he wanted to have a family. Yeah, and that's a

704
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: cost that he It's hard to it's hard to capture.

705
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: It's it's just hard to take into account the loss.

706
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: To me, it's hard to it's hard to really feel that.

707
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 1: And when when you went into that part of the podcast, asked,

708
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: it was just really sad to me that that part

709
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: of it, it made me. It made me sad for him.

710
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: You know, here's another interesting aspect of George mcjuncan is

711
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: we would have never known who he was had he

712
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: not found once in a how many gazillion lifetime archaeological site.

713
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: The only reason that he's in the Cowboy Hall of

714
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: Fame honestly is because we know it knew his name

715
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: because and I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be

716
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: in He's not in the Cowboy Hall of Fame because

717
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: of that in Cowboy Hall of Fame because of the

718
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: way rons his life, his ability to be a cowboy.

719
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: But I think if you're really looking at it, the

720
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: only reason we knew him and people told the story

721
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: a hundred years later, it was because he he found

722
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: something that how many humans have been in America for

723
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: the last ten thousand years and one of them found

724
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: an archaeological site that rewrote human well a couple now,

725
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of but like point being, how

726
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: many George mcjenkins are out there that just weren't the

727
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: one that found something that made him super famous, you know.

728
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting that, uh that George mcjunkin for

729
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: until nineteen seventy two wasn't even credited with that find.

730
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: It was the archaeologist that came from Denver that that

731
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: went and went and viewed the site shortly shortly after,

732
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: within a couple of years after George mc mcjunkin's death,

733
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: and then um they he he and a colleague were

734
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: credited with that find, and it wasn't until nineteen seventy

735
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: two that George mcjunkin was actually credited with it. I'll

736
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: tell you what impressed me most about it. I think

737
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: somebody would eventually found that site. He didn't have to

738
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: be George mcjunkin. I was most impressed with the story

739
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: of him deciding to do something in a time that

740
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: was hard. He decided he wanted to read and write,

741
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: so he put himself in a position to learn that.

742
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: He set a goal, and he was gold oriented and

743
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: solely focused on making himself a better human being. And

744
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: he did that, and he did that in the time

745
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: when it was hard, and today you know it's so different.

746
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: Were people gripe about the spoon that they're being fed with,

747
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: about the size of spoon back when that cat didn't

748
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: have a spoon, And people, regardless of their situation, they

749
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: can if you work hard enough, things shouldn't be easy.

750
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: Things should be hard, and you should have to work

751
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: for it. You probably shouldn't have to work for it

752
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: as hard as George did, but he did it, and

753
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: he didn't. Nowhere in that podcast did I hear one

754
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: person say anything or tell a story that that George

755
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: sat around and said, man, I had it tough coming up.

756
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: It was it was always what was gonna be happening

757
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: down the road, he said is And once he reached that,

758
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: just from my summation of it, once he reached that

759
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: goal of educating himself, it didn't stop. He wanted to

760
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: do more, and he wanted to do more. He saw

761
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: he'd but he did find those bones that side, and

762
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: he thought he didn't think it was just bones. He

763
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: knew he knew enough to say, hey, somebody ought to

764
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: check this out. They never did in his lifetime, but

765
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: it was just I think he is a great inspiration

766
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 1: for what a thirst of knowledge can do for somebody,

767
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: regardless of the situation there in that impressed me the most. Yeah,

768
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: I thought David Meltzer did a good he had a

769
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: good angle. It's interesting talking to so many people about

770
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: one person and you get this kind of little snippets.

771
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: But David Meltzer said that George mcjunkin was one of

772
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: a hundred of of cowboys that would have even got

773
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: off their horse to look at a bone. And again,

774
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: George didn't see thirty two bison and tick with bones.

775
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: He saw just a handful of bones sticking out of

776
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: the dirt down in this arroyo, and uh, just you know,

777
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: did the cure curiosity to get off of it, get

778
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: off his horse and go down there? And look was

779
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: the curiosity is a thirst for knowing, for knowing, finding

780
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: out what something is, you know, And that that never

781
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: that fire never went out because here he was he

782
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: had probably surpassed anything that he could have possibly dreamed

783
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: of doing growing up as a slave. Here, I am

784
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: the boss, I am the boss of this ranch. Why

785
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: do I need to do more? But yet his curiosity

786
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: never stopped. It was it was really cool. I can't wait.

787
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: I kind of I'm I'm very interested in the in

788
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: the Native American part and the folsome stuff, but I

789
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: kind of hate to see this chapter close on him. Yeah.

790
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: You know, that's the thing about George. There's not a

791
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: lot of intel on him. You know. This one book, uh,

792
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: The Black Cowboy is, as far as I know, the

793
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: only book that's written about him. And uh, there's some

794
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: other snippets of intel in a few different places, but

795
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: most of it is is most of us in that book.

796
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: I assume he's buried. Did a cemetery. That's where he

797
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: was buried. That he's buried, He's buried and fulsome and

798
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: I wish we could have gone to the his grave. Yeah,

799
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: we didn't in his house yeah, or where his house

800
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: was his house was Yeah. That was also so sad.

801
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: Yet a man you just got a handful of possessions

802
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: and burns down. Yeah, because he took that skull. You

803
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: think that's what it was. Did anybody catch my joke

804
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: when I said, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer,

805
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: but I want to talk about this part of George's life.

806
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 1: And then when I ended, I said, thanks, Yeah, we

807
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: we caught. I think it's spend money. Who are you

808
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: hoping that we would bring that on? Our favorite part

809
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: all this up. Now, that one part where you referred

810
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: back to the seamlessly, that one really got me. One

811
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: of the funniest things I've ever been a part of

812
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: my entire life. I was a part of a business

813
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: networking organization back when I had a landscape company, and

814
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: one day it's so it's this super awkward deal where

815
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: we had breakfast every couple of once a week with

816
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: all these business owners in the community. And I was

817
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: a young guy trying to start this business. So I

818
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: was going, there's like twenty people in the room, and

819
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: somebody gives some like terrible news about something like like

820
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: every week you had to stand up and talk about

821
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: your business. And I really don't remember what I said,

822
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: but a guy stood up and said, I hate to

823
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: be a Debbie Downer, but you know I want bankrupt.

824
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: And mother law's house burned down to kill somebody by

825
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: and the place just goes silent, Like twenty people that

826
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: don't know each other just goes silent, and uh my

827
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: c p A who was there who invited me to

828
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: break the silence. After like seconds of just awkward silence,

829
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: he goes, thanks a lot. Damn. I never forgot so

830
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: anytime someone says I don't want to be a Debbie

831
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: down there, I go thanks. So I watched people's faces,

832
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: a couple of people that I was with when I

833
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: listened to the podcast, and they never even got it.

834
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: They've never even registered in our minds. So there's a

835
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: lot of hidden clues insot the Burgeries podcast. There's a

836
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: lot of I'll just say it's possibly one of the

837
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: people he was watching. There's a lot of pressure to

838
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: listen to the bearers in front of Clay. Does he

839
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: sit there like, just watch every red you get? Did

840
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: you get? Absolutely? Dude, I'm sorry to know why you

841
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: guys don't see many movies. A whole lot of Missy

842
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: listen to this. It's more like, Missy, you'll never guess

843
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: what he's about to say. You'll never Yes, Well, the

844
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: podcast was adequate. I think it's pretty thank you Gary.

845
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: The yeah two bad Dad's not here. He could really

846
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: could really put me into place. I'm sure you caught it.

847
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: He caught it. He was not amused. It was an

848
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: okay podcast, that's what it said. Okay. I thought it

849
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: was a good podcast, and I'm glad you did it.

850
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: And I'm glad. I think that you understand foreshadowing here,

851
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: um that once you hear the second one, you kind

852
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: of understand the significance of this contribution he made in

853
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: a way that you don't understand after the first one,

854
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: which is the great part about the two parter. And

855
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: and so you'll you'll we'll all come to appreciate him.

856
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: I think that we all appreciate him as it stands

857
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: just for me, the cowboy, I mean, like just for

858
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: what he just for his life, and I think that

859
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: that's also super valuable for someone to live their life

860
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: in such a way that gracious, there's people devoted to

861
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: it and to preserving the honor of what he did.

862
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: And so that speaks volumes in particularly of a man

863
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: who was born into the world at a time that

864
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: he was born into it where it was harder for

865
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: him to reach those those that that level of respect

866
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: than it would have been other people. And so I

867
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: think in and of itself, his life without the discovery

868
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: of this other thing, really without understanding the significance of it,

869
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: was a life that was worthy to be covered on

870
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: The Barriers podcast. People deserve to be remembered, regardless of

871
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: they make an impact. Good people make an impact period.

872
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: His his would be a global impact from what he found,

873
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: but he obviously had a impact on that community because

874
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: all those people loved, so they deserve to be remembered.

875
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: It really is remarkable the loyalty that that whole family

876
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: feels to him and that the people in that community

877
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: feel to him. And that's that is that is notable,

878
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: that's significant. Are we going to get to hear more

879
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: from the Streus Kyle Bell, Nope, We're done. We're done

880
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: with that, remember him. That's how he said that, Nope,

881
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: we're done with him. That that guy is a character.

882
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. And that photo of him, I thinking

883
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: of the right guy braids with the leather straps when

884
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: you described him on the podcast. And then I saw

885
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: I can't remember where I saw a little video of

886
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, that guy. We followed him all

887
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: over all over that ranch looking for the Falesome site.

888
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: It's kind of in a weird place. Yeah, and we

889
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: kind of got turned around. So the Falsome site, you

890
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: actually you can't go to it. It's not like a

891
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: national park or something. It's there's a public, publicly owned

892
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: ten acres that the Falsome site is on. So it

893
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: is the Falsome site is on public land, but it's

894
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: landlocked by private so there's no legal access to get

895
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: in there. We had to get from and from the

896
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,959
Speaker 1: ranch owner to get back. And there's nothing to see

897
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: there either. Yeah, you would never know you were at

898
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: the fulsome side. It just looks like a patch of

899
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: grass and a ditch fence. Well there's there. Yeah, there's

900
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: a big fence around it to keep the cattle off

901
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: of this ranch off of it just so it's digs

902
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: out there. No, well, yes they will one day. What's

903
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: what I learned from Dr Meltzer is that archaeological sites

904
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: there is like etiquette, their rules in the way archaeological

905
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: sites are now developed or excavated, and they purposefully leave

906
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: some stuff for technology that maybe we can't even foresee

907
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: that in a hundred years from now somebody will be

908
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: able to go back in and learn more, which is

909
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: just bizarre to me. So the way it's the way

910
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: it worked was that the site was excavated in nine

911
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: and that was the first time he was excavated, and

912
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of people involved in that, and

913
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: then that was it, and it was a multi year process.

914
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: And then David Meltzer, Dr David Meltzer from s m

915
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: U in Dallas, he basically built a case for why

916
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: they needed to go back and do a second excavation

917
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: of the fulsome site. And I don't know what people

918
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: and processes you have to go through, but he got

919
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: permission and they went in and did like a multi

920
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: year second excavation of the site and learned a whole

921
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: bunch of new stuff and now they had radio curbon dating.

922
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: They did not find any points though, and then when

923
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: Steve Ronnella was there, Yeah, yeah, when Ronnella was there,

924
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: after Meltzer did his did his excavation, Steve said they

925
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: were standing there at the fulsome site and he looked

926
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 1: down and there was a bone sticking out the dirt

927
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: for real, and he he said, he's so bad, wanted

928
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: to go over there and pull it out, and the

929
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: archaeologists that he was with was like, don't touch it.

930
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: So there's something connected to that phone, and archaeology is

931
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: a little honory man, Poor Steve. What if that's like

932
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: the finding of the of the century and he was

933
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: robbed of he'll get credited with it in fifty years. Okay,

934
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: no one will remember Steve Ronnella for his media or

935
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: for all his accolades. They'll go he's he's the guy

936
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: that found that one media guy that horse got out

937
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: of his subaru and walked down to look at that bone.

938
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: They're also going to remember that he's two and a

939
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: half feet taller than you are. From that Instagram video

940
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: that photo he was on a stool. He was, he

941
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: was so Okay, if you're not up to date on

942
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: what it's being spoken up here. There was a video

943
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: that leaked out um of Stephen Ellan debating a painting

944
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: and he was standing on he had the higher ground.

945
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: He was on the milk, and it looked like so

946
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: in this in this living room, there was you know,

947
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: how wood stove will be setting up off the ground.

948
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: To have like a like a rock platform that it's

949
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: sitting up on, it had to be a pretty high platform.

950
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: Is six inches. Maybe he was three ft taller than

951
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: he was standing on that rock platform, Dan, And were

952
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: you kneeling before? I don't know. It was he's taller

953
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: than me for sure, not like a foot taller than me. Way,

954
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: he's he's more than a foot taller than that photo.

955
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: Oh man. But the good news is is that I

956
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: was right. Oh gosh, it was even. And then but

957
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: then Steve comes up with this whole thing about death

958
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: of the author. Have you all heard about death of

959
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: the author. It's like an artist does a painting or

960
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: a writer write something, and even their intent doesn't matter.

961
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: What matters is how it's perceived by the reader. So

962
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: they call it death of the author. So you could read,

963
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: you could look at a painting and go that's morning.

964
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: And then the author chimes in on Instagram and says, no,

965
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: it's actually evening. Even though you thought it was more

966
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: than Steve and trying to tell you that it's what happened.

967
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. And then but then death of

968
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: the author means that, and Steve brought this up. It

969
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what author thinks, it's what your perception is

970
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: as Yeah, Brent was with me the whole time. Thanks Brent.

971
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: How many times does this exact phenomenon happen as you

972
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: are looking at your neighbor's Halloween decora, death of the authors?

973
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to feed my family. That's how those

974
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: community conversations are going to go. Listen if you could

975
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: have seen it, Brent, literally literally there was skeletons in

976
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: lawn chairs, a fire, a fake fire across with a

977
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: burning witch. People in the lawn chairs had a dog

978
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: leash that was connected to the skeleton of a dog.

979
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: That's one. Until you described the dead dog, I was with,

980
01:00:53,240 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: why are we celebrating this? Okay? George mcdonkin, I love

981
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: what's so great about all this is I'm learning inside

982
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,439
Speaker 1: of all this as well. You know, it's it's pretty

983
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: fascinating to explore these unique people and really dive in

984
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: deep and understand who they are. He's laughing. Why are

985
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: we laughing? MS are you're thinking he's not learned a

986
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: dang day. I think that Clay probably wanted to edit

987
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: out my initial comments about the Halloween and we just

988
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: keep bringing it back up. By the way he was looking,

989
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: it is like the episode Halloween. Happy to say, Happy Thanksgiving?

990
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving. No. I enjoyed, enjoyed learning about George mun Junkan.

991
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: These guys I'll never forget. I feel like when I

992
01:01:54,560 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: look into anybody, whether it's James, Lawrence Warner, Glenn Roy Clark,

993
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: Britt Davis, all these guys. I mean, part of being

994
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: human is that we don't live in isolation and we

995
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: can look at people's lives and glean stuff from it.

996
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: I mean, how stupid would you be to think that

997
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: you're just this independent guy that's just gonna build your

998
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: life based upon no influence from somebody else. I want

999
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: to be influenced by guy like George. I mean when

1000
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: he I mean he he dealt with stuff that I'll

1001
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: never deal with. But he was he he just was

1002
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: dead said on what he wanted to do I appreciate

1003
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: guys that are just gritty and tough. I do. I'm

1004
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: a sucker for gritty and tough, and man, if you're

1005
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: a good BRONC writer, you're gritty and tough. If you're

1006
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: a black guy back in the eighteen hundreds that is

1007
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: way up inside of the ranching community in this area,

1008
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: you gotta be pretty gritty. And then his his grittiness

1009
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: to learn how to read and write when a lot

1010
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: of people probably weren't. Just I respect the guy. He

1011
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: was funny too, he had he had a good sense

1012
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: of humor and just like him, I'm gonna incorporate that

1013
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: into my life. Yeah, and if you're ever and fulsome

1014
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: go to the museum. It's pretty cool, it is. I

1015
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: was surprised he walked around while I was making a

1016
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: bunch of noise while you were trying to record a podcast,

1017
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: and there was a piece of art in there that

1018
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: was donated by somebody from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Yeah. I was like,

1019
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: look at that. But yeah, fascinating stuff from historic stuff too,

1020
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: fossils to everything, World War two stuff. Yeah, pretty cool. Cool,

1021
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody. You are welcome, wild places, wild it's

1022
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: pretty crazy.