1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: I'm Maria no Hoosa today the wrongful incarceration of JJ 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: Velasquez in jail for twenty two years for crime the 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 2: evidence suggests he did not commit. I'm here in the 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: virtual studio with producer Maggie Freeling, which means that both 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: of us are recording from home. You might remember Maggie 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: because she's been a part of our team at Latino 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: USA and Fududo for several years now. Today Maggie is 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 2: here to bring us her latest project. 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: Hey Maggie, Hey Maria, I'm so glad to be back 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 3: with you. 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 2: So the name of your new podcast series is called 13 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: Unjust and Unsolved and well, okay, Maggie, I'm super intrigued, 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: so tell us about it. 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, as you know, I left Puturo in April 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 3: to start my own project, I'm justin Unsolved and it's 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 3: about wrongful convictions and of course, when you wrongfully incarcerate somebody, 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 3: it goes into these now unsolved crimes. 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: All right, Maggie, So tell us specifically about this episode 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: and this story. 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. So this episode is about John Adrian Velasquez, or 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: JJ as his friends call him, and JJ was really 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: one of the first people I talked to for this project. 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: I was, you know, we're in New York, we worked 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 3: in Harlem, and so I was just googling New York 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: wrongful convictions and JJ popped up, and I was really 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: drawn to this case because it took place down the 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: street from the Puturo offices. So to me, this was like, Wow, 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: I have to get in touch with this man. So 30 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 3: basically what happened is, on the afternoon of January twenty eighth, 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight, retired NYPD officer Albert Ward was shot 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: dead in Harlem, New York, right down the street from US. 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 3: And really there was no physical evidence at the scene. 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: JJ had an alibi, and then the description from witnesses 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: at the scene. They described somebody that does not look 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 3: like JJ at all. So JJ gets called to the station, 37 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: you know, thinking I'll clear this up in a few minutes. 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: I'll enter a lineup. I didn't do this. He wants 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 3: it being identified, arrested, sentenced to twenty five to life. 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 3: He's been in prison for twenty two years for a 41 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: crime that all of the evidence suggests he did not commit. 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: Wow, I mean, this is extraordinary. 43 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: Maggie, And I mean, what's crazy is that you you 44 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: didn't really have to search so hard to find this story. 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit more specifically, because like, 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: there have been some eyewitnesses, right that have been part 47 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: of what's been going on with his case. 48 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. So one of the major things in JJ's case 49 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 3: is the entire reason he was even brought to the 50 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: station entered a lineup is because you know, there are 51 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: these witnesses who who mentioned that JJ looked like the shoot. 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: Turns out these witnesses later have recanted said they were 53 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: coerced by the police. JJ really had nothing to do 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: with it. They didn't even know who he was. They 55 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: kind of just wanted to get out of the police station, 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: pointed to a photo, and that's how JJ wound up 57 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: in prison for twenty two years. 58 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: So you've been visiting. How have you been in touch 59 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: with JJ and where is he? Yeah? 60 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: So I got in touch with JJ actually almost about 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: a year ago. At Thanksgiving. I reached out to him 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: and he is in sing Saying, just about an hour 63 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: outside of the city. So I was able to go 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: visit him in February, right before the pandemic broke out, 65 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: right before we went on lockdown. Prisons are not allowing 66 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: any visitors. They haven't for eight months, so I was 67 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: really fortunate that I got to see JJ. He's been 68 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: the only person I can visit in prison and Maria, 69 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: as you know, it's just such a personal experience when 70 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: you get to see somebody in real life and talk 71 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: to them in real life. And because of that, I've 72 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: gotten really close with JJ and I now consider JJ 73 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: a friend of mine. 74 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: So what's happening in terms of JJ's case, because actually 75 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: we're airing this at the end of the year, and 76 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: something could happen with JJ's case right now. 77 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. So usually at the end of each year, New 78 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 3: York Governor Andrew Cuomo grants clemency to somebody, and JJ 79 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: currently has an application for clemency on Cuomo's desk. This 80 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: is his third year in a row applying for clemency, 81 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: and this year JJ has a really great shot. And 82 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: so I want to say off the bat that I 83 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: am asking listeners if they feel compelled by JJ's story, 84 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: to email Governor Cuomo urgently, there's just a few days 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: before the end of the year, telling him that they 86 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: believe in JJ's innocence. And to grant this man clemency, 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 3: And I just want to say full disclosure. I also 88 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: wrote a letter of support for JJ's clemency that also 89 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 3: went to Andrew Cuomo. 90 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: So, Maggie, I've known you for quite a while well 91 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: as a journalist and then as a friend. You don't 92 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: usually say those kinds of things like go ahead and 93 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: email somebody and rally behind their bitch for clemency. 94 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: You really believe in this case strongly. 95 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: I mean absolutely. When you listen to the episode, you'll 96 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: hear I mean, JJ was in the Bronx. He wasn't there. 97 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: Witnesses have recanted Maria. As you know, sometimes you look 98 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 3: into these things and the evidence is just so overwhelming. 99 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: I mean NBC producer Dan Slepian you'll hear him in 100 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: the episode as well. He looked into JJ's case for 101 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 3: ten years. For ten years he was investigating, talking to 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: witnesses before he did a dateline special on it, talking 103 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 3: about JJ's innocence. I mean, the evidence is so compelling 104 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: and so overwhelming. JJ was born in Manhattan in nineteen 105 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,239 Speaker 3: seventy five to his mother, a union organizer, and his father, 106 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: an Amtrak police officer. He lived in Brooklyn the first 107 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 3: few years of his life. Actually, he landed in the 108 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: Bronx at sixteen, where he lived and had a family 109 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: until his incarceration. JJ was described as a fun, loving 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 3: popular guy. We're rolling world. That's totally fun. 111 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 112 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 3: You do a lot of media, don't you. 113 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 4: Yes, I do. 114 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 3: JJ is now forty four. We're sitting at a table 115 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 3: in an outdated conference room inside Sing Sing days before 116 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 3: visitation was cut off because of COVID nineteen. Before JJ 117 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 3: came in, they had him waiting over two hours in 118 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 3: the freezing hallway for us because security took so long 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: for us to get through. Sing Sing has a dark 120 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: reputation for housing and executing some of society's most notorious criminals, 121 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: including Albert Fish serial killer, child rapist, and Cannibal. 122 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 5: Long before Hannibal Lecter fictional Cannibal, there was a man 123 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 5: the tabloids labeled both the Gray Man and the Werewolf 124 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 5: of Wisteria. He was a true life Cannibal, a living monster. 125 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 3: The prison is almost two hundred years old, built in 126 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 3: eighteen twenty five, and I have to say it looks 127 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: like it even though it's located in a beautiful town 128 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: with a waterfront view on the Hudson River. The prison 129 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: is ominous, dark, clammy, absolutely chilling. I'm shivering as I 130 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: sit across from JJ, who told me it's actually warmer 131 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: inside than usual. Where would your life have gone? What 132 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: were you doing? What were your hopes and dreams like 133 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: before any of this became anything in your life? 134 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 6: Well, it's a good question, and I don't want to 135 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 6: be disrespectful, but it doesn't even matter anymore. What I 136 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 6: would have liked to be or who I would have 137 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 6: liked to have been doesn't matter because. 138 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: That dream was shattered the minute I got arrested. 139 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 3: On the afternoon of January twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, 140 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: a man walks into an illegal underground gambling spot in Harlem, 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: New York, on one twenty fifth and eighth Avenue. The 142 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: spot was owned by retired NYPD officer Albert Ward. The 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: man places his bet at the gambling spot on a 144 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: piece of paper, he hands it in and then leaves. 145 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: Shortly after, he returns with another man, and that's when 146 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: witnesses report hearing something along the lines of this is 147 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: a stick up or put him up. The men then 148 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 3: bring about six people into the back room and tie 149 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 3: them up. At this point, Officer Albert Ward tries to 150 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: stop them. Evidence suggests Ward fired at the men first, 151 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 3: who then fired back. Witnesses say it's possible Ward hit 152 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: one of the men as they saw him stumbling at 153 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 3: the top of the stairs on his way out. The 154 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 3: bullet that struck Ward hid his face and killed him 155 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: almost instantly. In a New York Times article from the 156 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: next day, people who knew him describe Ward as a 157 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: quote beautiful person. He grew up in the area and 158 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: owned many shops and bars in the neighborhood, including a 159 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: Baskin Robbins. A neighbor told The Times, if someone needed money, 160 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: he would help, and sometimes he even bought people clothes 161 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: when they got out of prison. Ward was fifty nine 162 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: when he was murdered. Afterwards, the NYPD put a bolo 163 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: police speak for be on the lookout for two suspects, 164 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 3: a shooter and an accomplice. The accomplice was described as 165 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 3: a dark skinned Blackmail. The shooter was described as a 166 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 3: light skinned Blackmail with long braided hair or dreadlocks. At 167 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 3: the same time, new Father JJ Velasquez was a twenty 168 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 3: one year old living with his girlfriend and two young sons, John, 169 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 3: Adrian Junior and Jacob. Jacob was just born a month 170 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: prior to this incident. So January twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, 171 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: where were. 172 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 6: You January twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight, I was actually 173 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 6: on the phone with my mother. 174 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 4: So January twenty eighth is my father's birthday. 175 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: JJ told me. At this same time Albert Ward was 176 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: shot and killed, he was at his house in the 177 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: Bronx on the phone with his mom, discussed his father's birthday. 178 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 3: His father had died ten months prior. The following day 179 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: was his birthday, and JJ wanted to go see his headstone. 180 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 6: Because they had just put up his stone. I never 181 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 6: got to see his stone. And after that we were 182 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 6: going to go to the apartment and pray. And that 183 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 6: turned out to be like a seventy four minute conversation. 184 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 4: And it just so happens. 185 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 6: We didn't know this right away, because if you asked 186 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 6: me where I was, you know, on any particular day 187 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 6: during the time that they're talking about this crime commenced, 188 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 6: I would tell you that I was home. 189 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 4: But how do you prove that you're home. 190 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 6: It wasn't until a couple of months in while I'm 191 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 6: on Rikers Island, suffering that my mother's like, listen, you 192 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 6: llawye has found it? I said, found what? Found evidence 193 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 6: that there's an alibi. We have proof that you were home, 194 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 6: you were on the phone with me. It was Yeah, 195 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 6: it was phone records that they were able to find 196 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 6: that substantiated the length of our conversation. 197 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 4: And then it brought it all back and was like. 198 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: Wow, So how did JJ wind up being identified as 199 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: the shooter? It just so happened that JJ had been 200 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: arrested a few months earlier for drug possession. He was 201 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: never convicted, though, but police still had his mugshot on file, 202 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: So when they interrogated witnesses and words shooting, they showed 203 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: them an array of mugshots that included JJ's picture. One 204 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: witness said JJ looked like the guy and that was it. 205 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: Police sent word that they wanted to question JJ, and 206 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 3: when JJ heard that, he voluntarily went to the police 207 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: station to speak to them, thinking he'd clear this all 208 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 3: up in just a few minutes. 209 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 210 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 6: So I turned myself in February second, nineteen ninety eight. 211 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 6: Part of the reason why I turned myself in is 212 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 6: because my father was a police officer, who raised me 213 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 6: to believe in a system and to just think about 214 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 6: how the system treated me. You know, my father served 215 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 6: this country as a veteran in the army and then 216 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 6: as a police officer when he came out of the army, 217 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 6: and this is what he gets as retirement benefits that 218 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 6: ten months after he passes away, you set his son up. 219 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: This may be a tough question, but do you almost 220 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: feel it was like a blessing that he died before 221 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 3: you got locked up, before he could see this happened 222 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: to you. 223 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 6: Actually, I've never looked at it like that. It's interesting 224 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 6: that you would say that, but I think it's the opposite. 225 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 6: I believe that if my father was alive, this couldn't 226 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 6: have happened to me. I believe that my father, as 227 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 6: a standing police officer, would have been who granted a 228 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 6: lot more respect and would have said, you can't do 229 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 6: this to my son. 230 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 3: The eyewitness who chose JJ's mugshot was a man named 231 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 3: Augustus Brown. Brown says that he only saw the shooter 232 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 3: for a few seconds, but he felt pressure to pick 233 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: someone out of the stack of mugshots police showed him 234 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: because if he didn't, he says, the police told him 235 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: they would pin it on him. Here's an interview with 236 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: Augustus Brown with Dateline. 237 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 7: He told us detectives are pointing the finger at him 238 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 7: as a suspect. 239 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 4: To charge me with conspiracy to this, saying. 240 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: That, so the police are going to say you were 241 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: part of this. 242 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 8: Robbery, yes, saying that that I set this up for 243 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 8: him to come in and rouse it right what you 244 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 8: didn't do? 245 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 4: And he having that on my breck at the young 246 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 4: black man. I ain't got a little doubt. 247 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 6: I'm not in scolding the rod So that's what came 248 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 6: about me pointing the thing as must. 249 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 7: If that's true Laska, as his lawyers say, his testimony 250 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 7: cannot be believed. 251 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: So Brown said the police were going to pin the 252 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 3: murder on him if he did not point the finger 253 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 3: at someone else. Brown was also a drug dealer and 254 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: had ten bags of heroin on him when he was 255 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: brought in for questioning, so we thought he would go 256 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 3: down for that too. The twenty year old was terrified 257 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: of the threats and going down for the murder, so 258 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 3: he pointed at JJ. Said he thought he might have 259 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: recognized JJ as someone from the neighborhood, and that was 260 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: that he picked him as the shooter. That's when JJ 261 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 3: was contacted once at the precinct. The police asked JJ 262 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 3: if he would enter a lineup, which, knowing he was innocent, 263 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: he agreed to. 264 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 6: I walked into a precint and volunteered for a lineup, 265 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 6: against my lawyer's advice. He said, just go home, let 266 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 6: them do their job and then we'll do hours. And 267 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 6: I said, no, I didn't do this. I'm going to 268 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 6: that lineup. If I go on that lineup and I 269 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 6: don't get picked, come. 270 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 4: Free, right. You say yeah, but if you get picked, 271 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: you're going to jail. 272 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 6: I said, I'm going that lineup, and that was the 273 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 6: last choice I made as a free man. 274 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 3: JJ is a light skin Latino male. At the time, 275 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: he had short hair and a very thin sole pouch 276 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: kind of mustache. Witnesses at the scene described the shooter 277 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: as a blackmail light complexion and maybe that doesn't seem 278 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: like a huge jump from a light skin Latino, but 279 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: the description went on to say the guy had a beard, mustache, goatee, 280 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 3: and grades or dreadlocks. Eight of the nine witnesses gave 281 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: the same description, so a sketch was drawn and put 282 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 3: on a wanted poster, and this sketch looks nothing like JJ. 283 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not even a close resemblance. Plus three 284 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: independent sources who saw the poster said the sketch was 285 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: of a man named Mustafa. 286 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 7: This sketch was plastered all over Harlem, a place where 287 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 7: the streets talk and the cops were listening. Tips came 288 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 7: in from all directions, but one name kept coming up 289 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 7: over and over again, Mustafa. 290 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 3: Remember, the cops wanted two men, the shooter and the accomplice. 291 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: The accomplice was the darker skinned one. He was eventually 292 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: identified as Dairy Daniels. Daniels totally fits this profile. He 293 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: had fourteen prior arrests and twelve convictions for drugs, assault, 294 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 3: and robbery. Daniels was charged with the murder of Albert 295 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: Ward and eventually wound up pleading guilty to robbery. He 296 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: was sentenced to twelve years. And it's worth noting, though, 297 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: that Darry Daniels, in all of his dealings with police, 298 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 3: never mentioned JJ as being involved in the crime. There's 299 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 3: no evidence Daniels and JJ even knew each other. And 300 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: more than that, Daniel's brother told a private investigator that 301 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 3: JJ was indeed a stranger. His brother only implicated him 302 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: to get a lesser sentence. This was the only time 303 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: Darry Daniels implicated JJ a year after the shooting at 304 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: his own sentencing. He didn't even testify at JJ's trial. 305 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: When reporters tried to ask Daniels about JJ's claims of 306 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 3: innocence after Daniel's release, because remember he got out years ago, 307 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: thanks so that plea deal, he refused to talk about 308 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: the case period. 309 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 6: Me being here for this crime makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, 310 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 6: no sense whatsoever. The physical descriptions do not match, the 311 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 6: physical evidence is not there. Nothing makes sense. 312 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: The physical description was a light skin blackmail with dreads 313 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 3: or braids. Yes, hair that you did not have. 314 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 4: Absolutely, you're not a. 315 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: Light skin black mail. No, how did this happen? 316 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: How did you get here? 317 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: How did you get here? 318 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 6: When we answered that, Maggie, I think I'd be leaving here. Unfortunately, 319 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 6: that's a question I can't answer. I don't know how 320 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 6: I got here. 321 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 3: So after Brown selected JJ, a chain of events happened. 322 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 3: Now with an id the rest of the eyewitnesses were 323 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 3: at the underground gambling spot when Albert Ward was shot. 324 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 3: We're asked to come in and v a lineup. This 325 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: was the lineup JJ volunteered for. JJ was in the lineup, 326 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 3: a light skin Latino male next to other filler men, 327 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: none of whom were black or even remotely resembled the 328 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: sketch that had been drawn of the shooter, a light 329 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 3: skin blackmail with dreads. Actually, JJ says two of the 330 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 3: guys looked like white men, which, if anything, would make 331 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: JJ look darker than he was. I saw this picture 332 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 3: and it's true. JJ was then picked out by two 333 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: other witnesses after one chose someone else first and the 334 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: other was unsure about their choice. Based on this, JJ 335 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 3: was charged with the first degree murder of Albert Ward, 336 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 3: even though the only evidence police had was shaky eyewitness ideas, 337 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 3: and make no mistake, eyewitness identification should always be second guest. 338 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 3: The Innocence Project estimates that seventy one percent of the 339 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 3: nearly four hundred wrongful convictions that have been overturned by 340 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 3: DNA evidence involved mistaken eyewitness IDAs. The brain is malleable 341 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: and impressionable, and it is surprisingly easy for police to 342 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 3: make subtle suggestions in mugshot spreads or suspect lineups to 343 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 3: cause witnesses to finger the wrong person, but luckily JJ 344 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: had an alibi. Remember the seventy four minute call with 345 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: his mom that placed him at home at the time 346 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: of the murder. Well, at trial, the prosecution brushed the 347 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 3: record of this call off as just the girlfriend on 348 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: the phone. JJ had proved someone had made a lengthy 349 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: phone call from his house to his mom's that day, 350 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 3: but there was no way to prove it was him. 351 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 3: He was ultimately convicted of second degree murder. JJ has 352 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 3: been in prison ever since. 353 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 6: I've been fighting this conviction for all of twenty two years. 354 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 6: When you're innocent and you're fighting your case, you're at 355 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 6: like the worst position to represent yourself. I don't know 356 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 6: what happened, so now I have to go off of 357 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 6: what they claim a facts, and I already know aren't. 358 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 4: The facts because you said that I did it and 359 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 4: that's wrong. 360 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 6: So if we're starting from that, then what else is 361 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 6: wrong in this picture? 362 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 4: And how do I defend myself if I don't know what's. 363 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 3: Right coming up? If JJ is innocent, then who killed 364 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 3: Officer Ward? 365 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: Hey, we're back and today we're bringing you something quite special. 366 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: It's the story of JJ. 367 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: Velasquez told by producer Maggie Freeling as part of her 368 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: new podcast, Unjust and Unsolved. Maggie is going to pick 369 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 2: up the story now. 370 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 3: JJ has been fighting for his freedom from behind the 371 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 3: walls of Sing Sing Maximum Security Correctional Facility since nineteen 372 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: ninety eight. I'm here at Sing Sing with JJ and 373 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 3: he's telling me he's had a lot of time to 374 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 3: think about what happened. 375 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 6: You know, when I first came through, I thought I 376 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 6: was that anomaly. I thought it was like, how could 377 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 6: this happen? You know, my father was a cop. I'm 378 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 6: being accused of, you know, taking cops life. 379 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense. 380 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 6: Putting innocent people in prison for crimes just so that 381 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 6: they can say that there was some level of finality 382 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 6: to it. Right, So a cop was shot in broad 383 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 6: daylight and Harlem and somebody has to go to prison 384 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 6: because we can't have people believing that people can just 385 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 6: do this and get away with it. Yet Albert Wards 386 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 6: killers still out there victimizing people. We have no idea 387 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 6: how many victims have suffered as a result. 388 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: But new evidence and witness recampments could help him regain 389 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 3: his freedom and figure out who the real killer of 390 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 3: Albert Ward is In two thousand and four, JJ's legal 391 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: team interviewed Augustus Brown while he was incarcerated at Riker's Island. 392 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: Remember Brown is the heroin dealer who picked out JJ's mugshot. 393 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 3: Brown says he was actually high on drugs when he 394 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: identified JJ, and was high on drugs when he testified. 395 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: He says he really wasn't sure who the shooter was, 396 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: but was afraid to say anything because he thought the 397 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: police would implicate him in the murder, so he had 398 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 3: to stick with his story. Then, another of the three 399 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 3: witnesses who identified JJ also recanted in a sworn statement 400 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: to JJ's lawyers, saying they too felt pressure by the 401 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 3: police to pick someone out. The third expressed serious doubts 402 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 3: about picking the right person and said he even testified 403 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: against JJ, knowing what he was doing was wrong, but 404 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: again police pressure convinced him to testify. The lead detective 405 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: in JJ's case was Joseph Latrenta, and the lead prosecutor 406 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 3: was Eugene Hurley. The case against J is also lacking 407 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 3: any physical evidence. Witnesses say they believe Albert Ward shot 408 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 3: and wounded the man with the gun. They say while fleeing, 409 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 3: the shooter left a blood smear on the stairs. Test 410 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 3: from back then found this mirror was not blood, but 411 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 3: testing has evolved drastically since then. However, I work in Harlem, 412 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 3: right next to the crime scene, and unfortunately the building 413 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 3: was demolished, so there's no chance of doing further testing 414 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: on this smear. But regardless, JJ does not have a 415 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: gun shot wound on him. Further, there's actual evidence pointing 416 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 3: away from JJ the betting slip, the piece of paper 417 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: the shooter used to place his bet. Remember this was 418 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: a gambling spot. The slip was collected as evidence and 419 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 3: was recently tested for touch DNA. A DNA mixture was 420 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: found and from the partial profiles the independent test found, 421 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 3: they concluded that JJ's DNA was not on the slip. 422 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 3: Since witnesses say the shooter placed a bet on this 423 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 3: slip and JJ didn't touch it, it stands to reason 424 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 3: JJ is not the show sho. So who did touch 425 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 3: the slit? Who did kill Albert Ward? Unfortunately, at the 426 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 3: moment in New York State, touch DNA cannot be entered 427 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 3: into CODIS, the national DNA database used by law enforcement 428 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: to get a match. Because ironically, the worry is that 429 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 3: it will convict innocent people. Since the profiles are partial, 430 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 3: they're small, so the only thing it is good for 431 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 3: right now is eliminating JJ. But that's not as easy 432 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 3: as it sounds. With these kinds of cases, it's much 433 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 3: easier to be convicted than freed to be exonerated. Its 434 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 3: likely law enforcement is going to want the real shooter. 435 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: And as I mentioned earlier, three independent sources said the 436 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: man's name was Mustafa, but any investigation into Mustafa seems 437 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 3: to have been dropped as soon as Augustus Brown idd 438 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: JJ in the photo array. However, there are credible leads 439 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: as to who Mustafa is now. I don't want to 440 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: name names on this unless they're a widely broadcast, which 441 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 3: these names have not been. But JJ's website does list 442 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 3: the names of these credible leads, including one name in particular, 443 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 3: which was recently discovered in a police report that the 444 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: prosecution never turned over to the defense. 445 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 9: The last was his lawyers announcing that three months ago 446 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 9: through a source, they received an old police report with 447 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 9: information that proves his innocence, a police report they say 448 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 9: was withheld by the Manhattan District Attorney's office before the trial. 449 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: The newly discovered police report was mailed to NBC producer 450 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 3: Dan Slippian. 451 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 10: My name is Dan Seletian. I'm my supervising producer at 452 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 10: Dayline NBC, where I have worked for about twenty five years. 453 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: Dan has covered many alleged wrongful conviction cases and has 454 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 3: helped free five people with his reporting. He has been 455 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 3: covering JJ's case for almost two decades now. He met 456 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: JJ while visiting someone else he was covering in Sing Singh. 457 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 3: JJ also asked him to cover his case. 458 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 10: He at that first meeting challenged me to find him guilty. 459 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 10: Don't try and prove me in. Ifn't try and prove 460 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 10: me guilty, and that kind of intrigued me. And so 461 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 10: over the course of now eighteen years, I've come to 462 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 10: learn this case intimately, and you know, I have been 463 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 10: people look at my work sometimes and say, you know, 464 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 10: you're an advocate. 465 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 11: For the wrong convicted. I'm an advocate for the truth, 466 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 11: you know. And so when I look at the details 467 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 11: of JJ's case, I can come to no other conclusion 468 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 11: other than infinity. 469 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 10: He challenged me to investigate his case. I continued to 470 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 10: be skeptical. I looked into it for nearly ten years 471 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 10: before I did a story for Dateline. 472 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 3: In twenty twelve, Dan's investigation into JJ's case aired on Dateline, 473 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 3: and afterwards things completely changed. 474 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 10: It was after that, fifteen years after I first heard 475 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 10: about his case, after I produced a story for Dateline 476 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 10: about it, I get it my mailbox. 477 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 12: At home, that yellow envelope without a return address, with 478 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 12: forty police reports that had never been turned over to him, unredacted, 479 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 12: and to me, one of them was a bombshell. 480 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 3: This is the missing police report that changed JJ's case. 481 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 3: It's an interview with JJ's alleged accomplice, Deary Daniels's father. 482 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 3: Daniel's father said the night before the murder, his son 483 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 3: Dary had a friend over the house. 484 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 10: He described the friend as a light skin black man 485 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 10: with braids. This is the night before the murder. The 486 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 10: next morning, when this robbery happens, nine eyewitness said the 487 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 10: shooter was a light skin black man with braids. 488 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: If Daniel's father is right, this statement is exculpatory evidence 489 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: Prosecutor Hurley did not hand over to the defense. 490 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 10: And what's amazing about that report actually is that the 491 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 10: defense attorney, prior to JJ's trial, wrote a letter to 492 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 10: the Manhattan District distric attorney tried the case, saying we 493 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 10: are missing forty police reports. Please turn over these reports, 494 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 10: and they list them, and the assistant district attorney takes 495 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 10: the time to go through them and writes a letter 496 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 10: back prior to trial saying we've reviewed your request. These 497 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 10: are the reports that you suggested. Police report number this, 498 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 10: police report sixty four, Police report sixty three, Police ninety 499 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 10: fie and takes the time to say, we're not handing 500 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 10: these over because they're unimportant, they're not discoverable, we don't 501 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 10: need to turn them up. There's no important information in there, 502 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 10: and took the crime to write this even on this 503 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 10: one police report number ninety three interview with the Goda 504 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 10: Fendan's father, we're not turning it over because that was 505 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 10: up to the prosecutor, because that's the power they have. 506 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: Not only would that have pointed away from JJ, but 507 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 3: it could have helped finger Albert Ward's real killer, because 508 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: that's what's at stake here. When someone goes to prison 509 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: for a crime they didn't commit, it means they lose 510 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 3: years of their life, sure, but it also means the 511 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 3: real killer went free. And as far as J she 512 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 3: is concerned with. Holding a statement like this is almost 513 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 3: the same as planting a gun on somebody or coaxing 514 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 3: a witness to lie. It is all designed to get 515 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 3: a conviction, not the truth. 516 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 10: I am not an advocate for individual people. I am 517 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 10: an advocate for the truth. All I care about is 518 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 10: the truth. And unfortunately, what I've seen time and time 519 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 10: and time again is that the system doesn't care about 520 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 10: the truth. 521 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: And so despite the roadblocks he's faced today, JJ has 522 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: accomplished so much from the inside, and because of it, 523 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 3: he's able to live in the prison's Honor Block, a 524 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 3: small section of the prison with more privileges. JJ has 525 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: a bachelor's degree in behavioral science. He's been in leadership 526 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 3: positions for a number of committees, including the Family Reunion Program, 527 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 3: the Youth Assistance Program. He's received a certificate of recognition 528 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 3: for outstanding community service from a New York State senator, 529 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: and he recently did a ted X talk. 530 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 6: My name is John Adrian Velaskaz. Friends and family tend 531 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 6: to call me JJ. Feel free to do the same. 532 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 6: I want to redefine what matters by talking about the 533 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 6: powerful connection between better choices and better lives. This talk 534 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 6: is not about me, my case, or my children. This 535 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 6: talk is about us. This talk is about how we 536 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 6: can come together collectively to overcome our trauma and turn 537 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 6: it into triumph. This talk is about us and how 538 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 6: we can invest in our future by raising the caliber 539 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 6: of our communities. This talk is about us taking control 540 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 6: of our lives and making choices matter. At some point, 541 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 6: you have to just separate what you're going through from reality. 542 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 6: And I don't know how I was able to do it, 543 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 6: but I had done it for a long time. But 544 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 6: in the midst of that, I kind of lost myself too, 545 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 6: Like I realized that. 546 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 4: I was absent in my children's lives. 547 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 6: Like it was like, while we're on the visit, I'm 548 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 6: playing a role that I'm all right in here and 549 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 6: everything is fine, and I'm asking you about school and 550 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 6: everything else. But when I go back into that cage, 551 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 6: I'm becoming the person that they're treating me like, which 552 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 6: is an animal, you know. And it was hard to 553 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 6: separate that. But my mother taught me something, and what 554 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 6: she said was, you have to grow where you're planted, 555 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 6: and it doesn't matter what they do to your body, 556 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 6: you have to keep your mind healthy. And I really 557 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 6: just start to look at my situation and I kind 558 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 6: of get lost a couple of times where family have wanted, 559 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 6: you know, where's JJ. I stopped calling, I stopped writing, 560 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 6: But it's because I'm dealing with myself and there's a 561 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 6: lot of pain in there and I don't want to 562 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 6: share that pain. 563 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 3: Instead, he not only fights his own wrongful incarceration, but 564 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: he fights for others too. He told me that when 565 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: he first entered prison, he thought he was the only 566 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: guy that was wrongfully convicted. 567 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 6: But as I came up and I started to meet people, 568 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 6: I started to realize, wait a minute, this guy's innocent. 569 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 6: And at first, you know, you would look at it 570 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 6: and he would say it, is he really innocent? 571 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 3: Well, that's the same, right, Everyone in prisons in. 572 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 4: It, right. 573 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 6: But then you really start looking at it and saying, like, 574 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 6: you know what, this is happening, and it happens at 575 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 6: alarming rates. And I've been in facilities with five and 576 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 6: ten other innocent men. I would say that wrongful convictions 577 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 6: is America's worst nightmare and possibly America's most heneous crime. 578 00:32:59,200 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 4: How is it that. 579 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 6: You, as a member of law enforcement, came intentionally design 580 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 6: a conviction of somebody who doesn't belong in prison. 581 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 4: That is disgusting. 582 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: Four years ago, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office reinvestigated JJ's 583 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 3: case with its Conviction Integrity Unit, and they decided there 584 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 3: was not sufficient evidence to prove his innocence. But Dan 585 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 3: Selepian doesn't buy this because he said the unit allegedly 586 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 3: reinvestigating did not even speak to JJ's alibi witnesses. 587 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 10: His mother, and his girlfriend. If you're doing an objective 588 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 10: review of a case, no matter who you are, don't 589 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 10: you want to talk to everybody. Don't you want to 590 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 10: talk to his alibi witnesses to see if they're lying? 591 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 10: Why would they not talk to them? Is that a 592 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 10: thorough reinvestigation not to talk to his alibi witnesses. If 593 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 10: I was doing a story, I wouldn't be able to 594 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 10: put it on the air. I can't do a story 595 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 10: and say he told me why he's innocent, but I 596 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 10: didn't go check out why he's guilty, or here's why 597 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 10: he's guilty. But I didn't check out why he's innocent. 598 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 10: You check out everything. I was pretty surprised when I 599 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 10: didn't see an interview with them, and I spoke to 600 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 10: his mother, and I called her said, were you ever 601 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 10: interviewed by anybody from the Nantes office? He says, no 602 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 10: one ever called me. So it indicates to me, just 603 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 10: based on the facts, not my opinion, not my emotion, 604 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 10: just based on the facts, is that it indicates that 605 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 10: there's some sort of bias if you're not interviewing people 606 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 10: that are going to potentially be helpful to his side. 607 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 10: When you look at an official record and it's in 608 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 10: a court filing and a judge's order says the Manhattan 609 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 10: District Attorney's Office did a thorough reinvestigation of the case 610 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 10: and found no reason to disturb the conviction. That becomes 611 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 10: findings a fact by law. The judge has said in 612 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 10: the order, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office did of thorough 613 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 10: reinvestigation and therefore it is officially the truth. But if 614 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 10: you scratch the surface a little bit, you realize, guess what, 615 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 10: it's not exactly the truth. Their job is to find truth, 616 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 10: it's not to protect convictions. 617 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 3: That unit has overturned twelve convictions in the past decade, 618 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 3: only one of which was a murder case. Ten of 619 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 3: those twelve convictions involved false accusations and perjury. 620 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 10: When you have a conviction integrity unit, as the name says, 621 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 10: integrity unit, that says we're going to take another look 622 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 10: at this case, We're going to reinvestigate it, you would 623 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 10: think that that body, that of authoritative body is going 624 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 10: to take an honest, objective, thorough looked at the case. 625 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 10: Not is our conviction good, it's who killed Albert Ward? 626 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 10: And did this guy do it? I just have to 627 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 10: say that this is a systemic issue. This is much 628 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 10: bigger than a Batan District Attorney's office. I mean, this 629 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 10: is a esthemic as you are in a country, and 630 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 10: I've been investigating cases. 631 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 13: Of alleged wrongful convictions, claims of wrongful convictions for two decades, 632 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 13: and each one of them that has merit has had 633 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 13: the same hallmarks along the way when it comes to 634 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 13: the resistance from prosecutors and the system and judges that 635 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 13: the system is not built to get people out. It's 636 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 13: built to put people in and keep them there. 637 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 10: A system that refuses to accept facts and reality. 638 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 3: JJ's legal team is pursuing multiple avenues to secure JJ's release, 639 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 3: including a full reinvestigation into his case, including DNA testing, 640 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 3: and they have a petition in front of New York 641 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 3: Governor Andrew Cuomo for clemency. Yomo will be deciding before 642 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 3: the end of the year, in just a few days, 643 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 3: whether to grant JJ clemency, and I'm urging anyone who 644 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 3: believes in JJ's innocence to email the Governor's office asap. 645 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 3: Sy Vance, the Manhattan District Attorney, is up for reelection 646 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 3: next year. It's unclear if he plans to run again, 647 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 3: but many progressive contenders have tossed their hat in the ring, 648 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 3: and a new DA could mean a new shot at 649 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 3: freedom for JJ if he's not granted clemency, which he 650 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 3: does have a strong shot at. So again, please email 651 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 3: Governor Cuomo asap. JJ says when he gets out, he 652 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 3: wants to help others in his situation. 653 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 6: They've actually convicted the wrong guy in too many different ways. 654 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 6: Because I'm married to this movement, I can be exonerated tomorrow. 655 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 4: They can give me millions of dollars. 656 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 6: The next week and the next month, I will be 657 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 6: in front of the next court helping the next wrongfully 658 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 6: convicted man. 659 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 4: That is my future now, and that's what maddens. 660 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 6: It doesn't matter who I was meant to be before 661 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 6: because i know who I'm meant to be now, and 662 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 6: I'm on the front lines of this movement. 663 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 4: I've helped three guys get out right that not to interrupt, 664 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 4: but that is so crazy. 665 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 3: You've helped three guys get out and you are still here. 666 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 6: Yes, one of them just came to see me this 667 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 6: week on Monday. His name is Johnny Hehincopier, and he 668 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 6: did twenty five years for crime didn't commit the roseland murder. 669 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 3: JJ says he himself also helped Eric Glisten and Richard 670 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 3: Roseario overturn their wrongful convictions because, as he told me 671 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 3: in one of his first letters to me, the fight 672 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 3: against wrongful convictions is bigger than him because he's seen 673 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 3: the lasting damage his incarceration has done to him and 674 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 3: his family, and he doesn't want anyone else to suffer 675 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 3: like they have. 676 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 4: I have two children, two sons. Two sons. 677 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 3: How old are they? 678 00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 10: Wow? 679 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 6: One is twenty five now, the other one is twenty two. 680 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 6: I left them when my son, my oldest son, Johnny 681 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 6: Drian Velaska is junior. He was three years old. My 682 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 6: youngest son had just been born a month prior to this. 683 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 3: So they come busy. 684 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, not as much now. 685 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 6: I mean, you know, they've grown and things have changed 686 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 6: a lot, But the first half of their lives, my 687 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 6: mother has brought them to see me every weekend. And 688 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 6: it took me a long time to realize that I 689 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 6: was depriving them of a childhood because they were spending 690 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 6: five days in school and one day in prison. I'm 691 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 6: not sure if people can imagine what it's like for 692 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 6: the entire the entire process of your family's life taking 693 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 6: place in a visiting room, within the boundaries of a 694 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 6: small area that you have to just basically sit at 695 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 6: a table like we are, and that's the basis of 696 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 6: the life that you know with your own children. 697 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 4: And they had to come. 698 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 6: To some type of realization like why can't my father 699 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 6: touch money, Why can't my father come to this machine 700 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 6: with me? 701 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 4: Why can't my father come home with me? So it 702 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 4: was very rough. 703 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 6: That has rolled over and affected my family in devastating ways. 704 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 6: A couple of times you asked me questions about like 705 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 6: who was in the audience or who was at court 706 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 6: with when I went for my hearing, my oldest son 707 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 6: wasn't at court. 708 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 4: He was in a cage like me. 709 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 3: Jjson was most recently arrested and convicted for burglary. He's 710 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 3: currently serving his time at Cape Vincent in New York 711 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 3: on the border of Ottawa, Canada, over three hundred min 712 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 3: else from JJ in Sing Sing. 713 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 6: And they say statistically that children have incarcerated parents are 714 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,879 Speaker 6: seven times more likely to be incarcerated themselves. 715 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 4: And my son has become a victim of that. 716 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 6: And it happened because I was incarcerated for something that 717 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 6: I didn't do. My other son and youngest son, thank god, 718 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 6: he's never been arrested, but he walks around in society 719 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 6: on eggshells thinking that incarceration is the family curse, you know. 720 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 6: So the impact is unexplainable, and it has so many 721 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,760 Speaker 6: different layers of pain involved. 722 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 3: JJ's mother had a heart attack on what's called Wrongful 723 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,839 Speaker 3: Conviction Day or October second, in twenty eighteen. JJ thinks 724 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 3: it's connected with his conviction. 725 00:41:54,280 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 6: And she was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, which in regular terms 726 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 6: is broken downs, broken heart syndrome. And I never thought 727 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 6: that somebody's heart can be broken, but it's a pirate 728 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 6: that wrongful convictions has broken my mother's heart. 729 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 3: One of the hardest things when I came to see 730 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 3: JJ was seeing the torment and sadness in his eyes. 731 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 3: If you believe the evidence in this case, you believe 732 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,280 Speaker 3: his life was stolen. 733 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 4: When was the last. 734 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 3: Time you felt a hug from somebody? 735 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 6: Because of a lack of that opportunity, we tend to 736 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 6: hug each other in here when we embrace each other. 737 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 6: Sometimes we have special events like the TEDx event, and 738 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 6: you know, we see the lot of hugs that day, 739 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 6: and those are the special moments in our lives that 740 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 6: we're able to. 741 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 4: Really just feel human again. So he said, Nute, I apologize. 742 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 4: He's emotional. 743 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 3: If JJ doesn't get clemency this year, he's up for 744 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 3: parole in twenty twenty two. He could show remorse for 745 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,359 Speaker 3: what he's accused of and admit to the crime and 746 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 3: likely get out. But he's told me he's not about 747 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 3: to do that, So why not just say that to 748 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 3: get out and fight for it on the outside. 749 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 4: It's not going to happen here. 750 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 6: I can't do it because you know, sometimes you wonder 751 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 6: is it about principle? Like why would you put yourself 752 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 6: through more pain? But I can't give these people an 753 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 6: opportunity to try to say that about me. It's just 754 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,240 Speaker 6: not true. I can't let it happen. My children are grown. 755 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 6: If I got to spend the rest of my life 756 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 6: in prison, I definitely don't want it. 757 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 4: I don't believe it, but. 758 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 6: I can't go in there and do anything else but 759 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 6: say the truth be myself. 760 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,439 Speaker 3: If you want to help JJ, please visit free John 761 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 3: Adrian Velasquez dot org for more information about JJ's case, 762 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 3: links to petitions, and ways to contact representatives. You can 763 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 3: also find all this information on our website Unjust and 764 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 3: Unsolved dot com. 765 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 2: Our thanks to producer Maggie Freeling for bringing us this story. 766 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,760 Speaker 2: It's Harder for new podcast Unjust and Unsolved, a production 767 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 2: of the Obsessed Network. This episode was produced by Maggie 768 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,479 Speaker 2: Freeling and edited by Amber Hunt. The Latino USA team 769 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:02,840 Speaker 2: includes nied Masis, Andrea Robisk Russado, Julieta Martinelli, Alisa Escarce, 770 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 2: Ginni montalbo Alejandra Salassa and Rinaldo Leangnos Junior, with help 771 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 2: from Marta Martinez and Raoul Perez. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebau, 772 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 2: Julia Carusso and Lia Shaw, with help from elishabe Itto. 773 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,800 Speaker 2: Our digital editor is Luis Luna our New York Women's 774 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 2: Foundation Ignite fellow is Julia Rocha. Our interns ur Jime 775 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 2: del Serro, Emil Sequiros and Gabriel La Baez. 776 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: Our theme music was. 777 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 2: Composed by Seanerrinos. If you like the music you heard 778 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 2: on this episode, be sure to stop by Latinousa dot 779 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 2: org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. 780 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer Marie N. Posa. 781 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 2: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime, 782 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 2: we'll see you on all of our social media. Asta 783 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 2: Approxima Jao. 784 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by W. K. 785 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 8: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities where Children Come First. 786 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 8: The John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Founder and the 787 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 8: Annie E. Casey Foundation, creates a brighter future for the 788 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 8: nation's children by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and 789 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,839 Speaker 8: transforming communities.