1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: We are back in the studio after a long labor 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: day weekend away. Um, what'd you get up to? Oh, 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, I just I went to a densely populated 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: area and hung out, took some notes, watch my fellow humans. 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Oh that a good weekend. A good weekend. Then, yeah, 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: what about you? Well, I've ventured, uh my wife and 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: I've entured up into the hills of rural Tennessee and 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: I actually visited the farm which is of course the 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: hippie commune there in middle Tennessee, um, famous for its 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: midwifery and and and soy products and tempe and and 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: all this, uh, which which was pretty interesting. But I 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: was also talking to my mom, who's a kindergarten teacher, 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: and she reminded me of of this really cool phenomenon 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: that kind of ties in with today's episode. You know 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: how it is with classroom sizes. Oh yeah, talk about 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: dense populations. Yeah, you end up throwing in more and 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: more kids, especially at the beginning of the class. So 21 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: my mom will start off a school year and she'll 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: have just an exorbitant number of of kindergarteners there. But 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: inevitably what will happen is that one or two of 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: the kindergarteners will develop an extra large jaw with with 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: extra large teeth, and then it will that kindergartener will 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: eat several of the other kindergarteners, thus balancing out the 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: population in the classroom, and then from then on for 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: the rest of the year, everything is a little more normal. 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that people don't normally talk about, right, 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: but I mean it's it's pretty standard in public schools 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: in the United States, and it is a good way 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: to sort of weed down the population and make it manageable. So, yes, indeed, 33 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: we are talking about population density and its effects on organisms. Um. 34 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: The the kindergartener thing we just went through there, we 35 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: will explain a little more detail because because what we 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: really want to talk about here is the comparison that 37 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: can be made between um various organisms and their ways 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: of dealing with with population density and resource shortage and 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: humanity's own ways of dealing with it. Where we're similar, 40 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: where we're very different and where even are different approaches 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: are kind of achieving the same ends. Yeah, and this 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: is where that don't don't part comes in because we've 43 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: talked about this before and it's coming. Twenty is estimated 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: that we will add another two point five billion people. 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: That's a lot of people. So we're at about seven 46 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: billion right now, and right now, fifty percent of us 47 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: live in cities. But by of us excuse me, two 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: thirds of us of us will be living in cities. 49 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: And what does that spell for us? That's that's going 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: to be a lot of people, elbow to elbow. Uh, 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: So we want to talk about this a little bit 52 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: and talk about chicken particular resources that are and aren't 53 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: available in this scenario, right because we're talking about more 54 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: and more people that need more and more resources, obviously, 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: and are we gonna be able to meet that need? 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: Are we space wise we're gonna be able to meet 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: that need? We've we've devoted an entire episode in the 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: past to discussing this and about even even if you 59 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: started building these vertical cities, even if you you you 60 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: become smarter and smarter with how how you use available space, 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: can you actually keep up with the with the demand. Well, yeah, 62 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: we've talked about vertical farming as as a possible um 63 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: solution to this, but the fact of the matter is 64 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: is that to feed that many people, food production will 65 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: need to grow by seven Yeah, that's huge. And to 66 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: say nothing of drinking water, which which continues to be 67 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: this big illusion here, especially in the United States, and 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: and I guess much of the western world where drinking 69 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: water is considered, this just there's just no end to it, right, 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: it's cheer it's everywhere we poop into it, which continues 71 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: to just like once once you you really think about that, 72 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: and lord knows, I spent a lot of my life 73 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: not thinking about that, but once you really think about 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: the fact that in the United States we have clean 75 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: drinking water that we defecate into, whereas on the other 76 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: side of the world you have people who who don't 77 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: even have access to that clean drinking water, and certainly 78 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: not as regular. Yeah, and we could do an entire 79 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: podcast on it, and in fact we probably that's a 80 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: topic that we should investigate further. But yes, that's a 81 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: huge problem on the horizon, certainly for the West end. 82 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: It's because this dream scenario is not going to continue 83 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: for for the for the world, no, no, and UM, 84 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: just to add a little more information to that whole 85 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: water scenario, current agriculture practices UM use of the fresh 86 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: water resources and then it renders a lot of that 87 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: really unsafe to drink because of pesticides and fertilizers. So 88 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: there you go with that. UM. Obviously that we're gonna 89 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: need some more solutions in the future here to fix 90 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: that problem. And there's another thing that we're not quite 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: focused on here in the West end that UM. It's 92 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: the existence of slums. Okay, So when I talked about 93 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: the fact that fifty percent of us now live in 94 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: cities and that of us will live in cities, the 95 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: United Nations and the World Healthcare Organization all say that 96 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: it's very possible that half of the people who are 97 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: living at cities at that point will be living in 98 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: slum cities. Again, this is not something that particularly in 99 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 1: the United States that we that is front and center 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: for us, But in India and other places throughout the world, 101 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: you know, we've seen this born out. So that's something 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: to think about, UM in terms of resources and how 103 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: we're all going to get along and what's going to 104 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: be available to us. In fact, the u N says 105 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: in its State of the World Cities Report that we're 106 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: moving towards mega regions that create miles upon miles of 107 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: what they call endless cities, capable of holding up to 108 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: a hundred million people. So, you know, keep this in context. 109 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: Maybe you live in a city right now that has 110 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: three thousand people, and that seems quite large. That really 111 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: is nothing in comparison to you know, forty years out 112 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: from now, when you have these huge, sprawling cities across 113 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: miles and miles of land. So let's turn our attention 114 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: to the animal world, how to end and take a 115 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: look at how certain organisms deal with overpopulation, because this 116 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: is something that has occurred, you know, since time out 117 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 1: of mind. You have a successful organism in a given environment, 118 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna keep growing and growing, but it's eventually going 119 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: to press the envelope. You know, it's going to reach 120 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: that point where it's it's not sustainable within its own environment. 121 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: Resources are gonna dwindle and something's gonna have to give, 122 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: right So, one of the more remarkable examples of this 123 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: we see with the tiger salamander, which you find in 124 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: North America ranges from Florida to northern Mexico southern Canada 125 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: rocky mountains. It hibernates during the winter and during the 126 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: summer rains, it migrates in larger numbers to breeding ponds. 127 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: That this is where the males compete for females, and 128 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: after mating, a female lays one or more eggs, egg 129 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: masses that have fifty eggs each, depending upon the particular 130 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: subspecies of the salamander. All Right, the eggs hatch and 131 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: approximately four weeks into larva, and these larva fies with 132 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: like feathery gills. You've probably seen photographs. They're they're they're 133 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: cute and weird and and wonderfully beautiful in their own 134 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: subterranean way, slightly prehistoric. Yeah, And so these larva feed 135 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: on aquatic insects, small invertebrates and and even some small fish. 136 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: And the larva remain in these ponds an whole late 137 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: early August, uh well, late July early August, and then 138 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: transformed into air breathing subadults, which are four to five 139 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: inches in rank length. But this is where it gets 140 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: really interesting. Um. The tigers alamander is particularly unique because 141 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: the eggs can develop into two types of larva and 142 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: ultimately three types of adults. Now, but those two types 143 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: of larva, that's where it gets interesting, and this is 144 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: where I got the the deal. For the kindergarten example earlier. 145 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: The two types of larva that are produced are normal 146 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: tiger salamander larva plant and eating. Yeah, and then there 147 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: are the cannibal morphs. The cannibal morphs. Uh, these larva 148 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: have larger heads, bigger mouths, more well developed teeth, and 149 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: when ponds start to dry up and other food sources 150 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: become scarce, the cannibal more larva then turn on the 151 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: other salam mander larva in the pool with them and 152 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: start eating them, gobbling them up and growing faster. Their 153 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: maturing at a faster rate, and they're achieving adulthood at 154 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: a faster rate while eating the competing larva. Now it's 155 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: worth noting that they they they do not eat kin larva. 156 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm less resources are particularly unless they're in dire straits. 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: Then let's meet the brother or sisters. Yeah, So if 158 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: it's a kindergarten classroom, just know that a brother and 159 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: sister in the same room and one of them developed 160 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: that extra large cannibal jaw. It's not gonna eat it's sibling. 161 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: And this is called genetic polyphenism, and I think it's 162 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: fascinating because it is a response directly to the environment. Right, 163 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: So if they began to run into each other with 164 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: her feeling, you know, if the larva are detecting that 165 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: the environment and the resources are shrinking, then they will 166 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: respond in one of two ways. Yeah. It's kind of 167 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: like how Iron Man has different armors for different things, 168 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: Like if he's battling Hulk, he has like a Hulkbuster armor, 169 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: and he's battling thori as a thorbuster armor. Um, and 170 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: it and the the environmental stimuli depends dictates which armor 171 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Tony Stark is gonna put on. It's kind of like 172 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: that sept on a on a genetic level, and in 173 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: response to environmental stimuli which form this salama, it will 174 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: take all right. Um, So let's look at another example 175 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: of a high density population with creatures. This is also 176 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: an example of genetic polyphenism, except a little less um 177 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: grizzly in a way, because the two types that you see, 178 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: there's a gregarious morph and a solitary morph, and the 179 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: gregarious morph or is the one that arises as response 180 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: to population density, and it's more adept at flying, so 181 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: it can get the heck out of dodge and it 182 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: can find other patches grass or other resources. Yes, so 183 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: this would be in a kindergarten classroom environment. This would 184 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: be the child that instead of developing giant jaws to 185 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: gobble down its classmates, it would sprout beautiful wings and 186 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,719 Speaker 1: then fly populated classrooms. That the kid who would pull 187 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: the fire alarm or just to get out of dodges 188 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: and say yeah. Um. And then there are swarm crickets, 189 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: which I think are really interesting. Um, these are Mormon crickets. 190 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: That is a good example there. They themselves are a 191 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: good sport of protein, okay and salt. So they're just 192 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: naturally going to be delicious to one another. Little beef 193 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: turkey exactly exactly like think of like, for instance, if 194 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,359 Speaker 1: if uh us humans were covered in bacon and resources 195 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: were low and straight up like fried bacon skin, bacon skin. Yeah, 196 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: and we're just cruising around there's not much to eat. 197 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: We might might turn to one another and say, you 198 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: look delicious. That's one thing to think you always keep 199 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: in mind about cannibalism and humans is that. Um, humans 200 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: tend to go for cooked food with with a few 201 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: rare exceptions, but but certainly when it comes to eating 202 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: other mammals, we tend to like it cooked. And uh, 203 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: and we're not that so much into just eating it 204 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: living off the bone. But if but if we were, 205 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: would that change the same? Would we just peel off 206 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: a limb right now? And I just like pull off 207 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: one of your digits there, Like if everybody's skin was 208 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: like already like tan doorid and cooked and seasoned and all, 209 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: I mean it would it would be a different proposition. 210 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: Is it wrong that I'm salivating a little bit and 211 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm a vegetarian? But no, these It's true. These guys 212 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: are their chock full of protein. They are in the 213 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: right circumstance, delicious to one another, these these Mormon crickets, 214 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: and they actually create these migratory formations. Okay, so um, 215 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: this actually creates an order, this march that they conduct. 216 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: And the reason why it creates this order is because 217 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: they're they're marching in mass, and they're moving like each 218 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: cricket is moving away from the one behind it towards 219 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: the one in front of it, and it puts them 220 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: in a in a very strange position in which they 221 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: are both the prey and the predator. So they're they're marching. 222 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: Each one is marching towards a cannibalistic feast in a 223 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: way from a cannibalistic death. Yes, and again this is 224 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: in in the case where the population gets very high, 225 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: resources are dwindling. But to me, this is the more 226 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: psychological example or a terror actually than the salamander, because 227 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: those guys they just come at you with with big 228 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: jaws and you know, what's the end. But yeah, and 229 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, it's not nothing personal, it's business. Now. 230 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: I've got a giant job with which to eat you exactly, 231 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: and I developed that just for this purpose. But this 232 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: other one, it's like, you know, it's either be eaten. Yeah. 233 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: And and the important thing is that the cannibal morph 234 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: is sort of like, all right, we gotta roll out 235 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: the cannibal model to deal with this market. Whereas the 236 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: crickets are everyone is already on board with cannibalism. It's yeah, 237 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: they're ready to go. Um. Now, primates. We have seen 238 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: instances of cannibalism before primates, but generally this is not 239 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: something that is um is the norm Yeah, as we 240 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: just gotted. We had an episode called Finding on Cannibals, 241 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: I believe, which I we found out after we released 242 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: it that I think some people skipped over it because 243 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: they thought it was going to be about human cannibals, 244 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: which can be is a fascinating topic, but can be 245 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: the more disturbing topic that some listeners want to hear about. 246 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: That episode is entirely about animal cannibals. Cannibalism as an 247 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: economic factor, uh, in various organisms, and and and as 248 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: we highlighted in that episode, cannibalism on an economic level, 249 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: remove all the moral um you know what have you 250 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: on a on a biological economic level. It can be 251 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: a very good proposition, but it but while it drives 252 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: really well with some animals like these, like the crickets, 253 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: the Mormon crickets, it doesn't necessarily work so well with 254 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: other modes of life well, and like primates are a 255 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: good example because they're highly social, just like we are. 256 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: So um, it's sort of bad form to go around 257 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: eating one another. Um. So that generally doesn't happen in 258 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: a primate uh community, and I wanted to so we do. 259 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: This is why we don't see cannibal morphs among primates, 260 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: and certainly not in actual kindergarten classrooms outside of my imagination. No, no, 261 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: but if we did, could you imagine like the giant 262 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: jaws on Great eight canture, the like the classroom page 263 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: in the yearbook, and you being able to pick out 264 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: the cannibal morphs like look at the mouth on that 265 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: one that way, whoa whoa, Yeah, Jimmy, you're gonna have 266 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: to watch out for that one next year. Well, they 267 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: get they become buyers at that age too. Not defeed, 268 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: this absurd notion any I see what you're saying. You're 269 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: trying to make us all feel like there's the undercurrent 270 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: of of possible canibalism in the elementary set. Um, I 271 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: am going to pull this information or just actually, um, 272 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: just highlight this information from a paper called Sociality in 273 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: the City, using biological principle pools to explore the relationship 274 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: between high population in density and social behavior. Yes, by 275 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: Daniel O'Brien and uh and we'll link to this in 276 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: the blog post that accompanies this episode, but the entire 277 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: paper is available in PDF form on lines and it's 278 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: the fascinating, fascinating read. Yeah, he says that Maccaux and 279 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: high density populations, do you see an increase in intra 280 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: sexual aggressive behavior for females when when the population becomes 281 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: much larger, resources dwindle um. But he also says that 282 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: this is a companied by an increase in intra sexual 283 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: grooming um. Presumably this is the reaction to kind of 284 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: try to calm everybody down once there have been aggressive acts. 285 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: So it'd be like everyone's a little stressed out by 286 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: the overpopulation, but instead of digging nails and claws into 287 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: each other, everyone just goes and gets there their hair done, 288 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: I think, so it's sort of like, sorry about that, 289 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to do that. Let me gram you 290 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: a little bit. Um. But when there is a chimp 291 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: population that is artificially elevated, by the way artificially artificially 292 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: elevated is important because this is how they're they're testing this. 293 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: It was found that aggression actually decreased, but self scratching, 294 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: which is an indicator of anxiety, increased, and it's thought 295 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: that this is a form of self control, and this 296 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: is a deliberate um act that they're doing in order 297 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: to avoid any sort of unnecessary conflict. So on one account, 298 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: we see pro social actions counteracting stress hormones. Instead of 299 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: tearing it up, We're gonna just comb each other's hair 300 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: and meet each other's parasites. And we see anxiety and 301 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: conflict of avoidant self control. So instead of just completely 302 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: freaking out and murdering my my fellow chimps, I'm just 303 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: gonna maybe stress a bit and uh stare at the 304 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: wall and scratch myself. Yea. And if you look at 305 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: all these models, this is actually good news for us, right, 306 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: because we're a lot closer to tom a primate than 307 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: say a cricket. Um. So when you take this model 308 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: and you say, okay, there's going to be an increase 309 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: in population, there's going to be a dwindling of resources 310 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: for humans. Um, what is this going to look like 311 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: for us? How are we gonna act? And we should 312 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: probably take a break, But when we get back, let's 313 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: talk about how we may all turn into a loose urbans. 314 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: All right, we're back, And yes, we've talked about what 315 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: happens when salamander's encounter population density and dwindling resources. We've 316 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: talked about locusts, we've talked about primates, but really the 317 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: big question is what does it mean for humans? Cities 318 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: are not the exclusive domain of cannibalistic hordes. Um, obviously 319 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: as far as we know, as far as we know, 320 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean there might be some underground sex. Yeah, I 321 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: mean even when you look in fiction, um, you see 322 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 1: there are just as many cannibalistic hillbilly families as there 323 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: are cannibalistic underground dwellers. It kind of balances out. So 324 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: so even in the world of the of imagination, we 325 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: don't see the tendency towards cannibalism in large cities. But 326 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: but undeniably, cities are places where people are just stacked 327 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: on top of each other. Resources various, uh you know, 328 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: definitions of resources are harder to come by, be it 329 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: be it just you know, simply food, water, um, a 330 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: livelihood or socialization. There's sometimes there's just less of it 331 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: to go around. I have to say, when I was 332 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: reading the part about the chimpanzees beginning to scratch themselves, 333 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: um and then anxiety, I couldn't help but think of 334 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: Woody Allen immediately, who is it? Uh No, I just 335 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: kind of was imagining him as as a chimpanzee because 336 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: the typical neurotic city dweller exactly, exactly, someone who has 337 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: been shaped by his experiences in the city and high density. UM. 338 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about what we do 339 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: know when it comes to that sort of situation. We 340 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: have talked about the bystander effect before. UM again, this 341 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: is I guess you could look at it as a 342 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: social norm from not really helping people. And this is 343 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: evolved from our continual exposure to these instances that we 344 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: just kind of get UM hardened too, I guess you. Yeah. 345 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: And this this reminds me of another sort of sort 346 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: of in a way, I feel like kind of an 347 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: emerging modern Woody Allen Um in some senses we've mentioned before. 348 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: Louis c K I believe it's the third episode of 349 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: the first season of the show. Louis on fx UM. 350 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: He's talking about coming to going to New York Port 351 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: Authority picking up a cousin from the country, and they 352 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: see a homeless man just lying there against the wall 353 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: in dreadful shape, just like madded hair, you know, looks 354 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: like he's on death's doorstep. And and the cousin from 355 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: the Country's like, oh, whoa, what is he supposed to 356 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: be here? What's what should we do should we help him? 357 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: Does he need our help? And uh? And and Louie 358 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: who has this very very dark at times goofy but 359 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: but at times very dark and um and reflective philosophically, 360 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: they're very philosophical at times. Um he he he says, well, well, yeah, 361 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: he needs your help. He needs your help more than 362 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: anything in the world. But but we don't do that 363 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: here and don't don't touch him, just keep moving. And 364 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: that in essence is the bystander effect. Um. There are 365 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: basically four key components. And we discussed bystander effect before, 366 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: but but just to refresh their four key components um 367 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: self awareness, to perceived the presence of an audience to 368 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: his or her action inhibits the individual from acting. He 369 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: or she does not want to appear foolish or inappropriate 370 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: in front of others. So Louie is in front of 371 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: other New Yorkers. He doesn't want There's a there's a 372 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: certain sense of being a city person, you know, like 373 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 1: just us, you know, walking around Atlanta, you know not 374 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: to gaze up and stare at our few skyscrapers. If 375 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: we go to New York, we're conscious of the fact 376 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: that we are supposed to be some sort of a 377 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: city person, even in this much larger city. So we 378 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: don't stare up at the skyscrapers. You're not supposed to 379 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: stand around and look lost, because you'll look out of step, 380 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: you'll look like an outsider, and I don't know, you'll 381 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: be eaten or something. Well, but yeah by the underground cannibals. Yeah, 382 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: you don't want to violate the social norms and the 383 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: and these and the social rules that are in place, 384 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: which say when it is appropriate to do something when 385 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: it is not well. And then we've talked about before 386 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: too that that there's the psychological component of it, where 387 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: you say someone else will deal with that. The more 388 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: people that are witnessed to something, the more or the 389 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: less likely that person will receive help. Because everybody's sort 390 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: of saying that person will help for that personal help. 391 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: Eventually that person will the homeless person will go to 392 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: a shelter and receive help. Right, I mean this gets 393 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: into a diffuse responsibility, which is another aspect of the 394 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: bystander effect, which says, then in a situation where only 395 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: a small percentage of the bystanders can take action, responsibilities diffused. 396 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: So this that say a hundred people are standing by 397 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: and there's a guy that it's you know, clearly he 398 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: needs help. He's laying there right there on on the 399 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: floor of the port authority. We can't all help him, no, 400 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: I mean, we can't all go and pick him up. 401 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: Only like how many people can pick up a human 402 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: being at a time, how many can reasonably take him 403 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: to the shelter or to a hospital. And since we 404 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: can't all help him, there's this sense that that each 405 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: of us has less of a responsibility for helping. Well, 406 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: it's a matter of resources too, because if you were 407 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: to help every single person, then would you spend your 408 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: entire day and your material wealth actually helping that person? 409 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: So that is an extreme proposition right there. But but 410 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: you know if you were to stop and help in 411 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: the high density population like New York City, because spend 412 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: your entire day doing that, and some people actually do. 413 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: I did want to mention bring okay, just real quick 414 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: self awareness and this is just you look to see 415 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: what everyone else is doing. No one else is helping 416 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: this guy, so maybe I shouldn't either. Um, And then 417 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: there's blocking, and this is where there's a perception that 418 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: if you take action, uh, you could actually make matters 419 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: worse because you're getting the way of somebody else who 420 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: can actually do better with this situation. So it's like 421 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: I could try and help this guy, but surely, out 422 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: of all the hundreds of people walking by, someone else 423 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: here is better suited, Like some one of these people 424 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: is an actual care worker or they have some sort 425 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: of health training. I do not. I am not the 426 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: person for this job. And there are a ton of 427 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: studies that corroborate this um and in fact, in in 428 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: Socuality in the City, the author talks about how a 429 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: meta analysis of studies dealing with pro social behavior and 430 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: degrees of helping behavior found that population is greater than 431 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand have lower helping behaviors and lower pro 432 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: social behaviors. Can you think of a specific example where 433 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: you've you've found yourself wrapped up in the bystander effect? 434 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I probably, especially if you take public transportation 435 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: there and dur encounters like this every day. But I 436 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: know I have I can't, like I'm the top from 437 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: the top of my head, I can't, But I know 438 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: that there have been times before I vacillated and and 439 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: have finally said, like, could you need help or you 440 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, you kind of stand there and 441 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: try to assess the situation. Yeah, the I guess the 442 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: two times that come to mind that we're particularly kind 443 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: of interesting for me. Once I was I was walking 444 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: This was near Crag Tunnel in in Atlanta. I forgot 445 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: that is a great graffiti to great graffiti free zone. 446 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: And then what's the name of the of the restaurant, 447 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: Historia Historia? Yeah, I was leaving there with with my 448 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: wife and our friend j T. And we're walking down 449 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: the street there and uh, and we were just talking 450 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: about something and we pass a girl that's like passed 451 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: out in the gutter there by the We're not really 452 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: the gutter, but but the sort of shadowy side of 453 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: the road by this restaurant. And we all three passed by. 454 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: And then after we've passed by, you know, one of 455 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: us pipes up and says, hey, did you guys see 456 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: that back there? Should we we should do something? And 457 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: then we turned back around and and the three of 458 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: us sort of as a combined effort, went back and 459 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: checked on her, and she popped up and ran away. 460 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: But I see, isn't it interesting that one of you 461 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: it took like, you know, the three of you guys 462 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: were thinking about it, but it took one person to say, well, hey, 463 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 1: you guys before yes, because before that we were all 464 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: it was kind of like we were seeing what is 465 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: the social norm here? Do we are? Do we as 466 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: Atlanta residents, as city dwellers, as modern humans? Do we 467 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: let that go? You know? Do we? Or if we? 468 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: Does she know what she's doing? Maybe that's her thing, 469 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,239 Speaker 1: you know, And there are all these different levels at 470 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: which you can sort of rationalize passing it by until 471 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: you actually on the question on yourself and say, no, seriously, 472 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: why did you just pass that? Yeah? I think she 473 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: was just really drunk, because, you know, because that's a 474 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: it's a bar there, and she she seemed fine. She 475 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: was not injured or bleeding around. I know that ditch 476 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: she I've done that too. You just need to rest sometimes. 477 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: The only other time that it comes to mind is 478 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: when I saw an unintended package or what I thought 479 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: was an unattended package on Marta. And this was this 480 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: wasn't like immediately after a terrorist thing, but it was 481 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: still you get piped in your head. You see an 482 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: unintended package, you need to tell somebody, Well, and that's 483 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: our train system, right, so you don't necessarily want to 484 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: mess with that. Yeah, And so there was this pack 485 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: and like I spent like a whole like if it 486 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: was gonna blow up, it had plenty of time to 487 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: blow up with me on that train because I'm sitting 488 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: there and I'm like, all right, is is that nobody's 489 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: And I'm like seeing nobody sitting next to it? And 490 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: so I finally ring the bell and then some guy says, hey, 491 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: that's my package, And I'm like, well, do why were 492 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: you sending halfway across the train from it if it 493 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: wasn't filled with bombs? But anyway, I'm sure everyone has 494 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: at least a dozen stories of this nature. But I 495 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: just thought I mentioned to come yeah, and I'd love 496 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: to here um from our listeners to if they have 497 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: any stark examples of this um collective efficacy. This is interesting. 498 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: This is predicated on humans defending their territory by forging 499 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: bonds with neighbors and and displaying an unspoken rule of 500 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: order through the way that their own properties look, which 501 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: is I think about this less an urban setting, but 502 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: this is what the paper um Sociality and the City 503 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: is applying it to But I do understand that because 504 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: what they're saying, or rather the author Daniel O'Brien is 505 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: saying that this is a quote. When collective efficacy is weak, 506 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: undesirable behaviors like disorderly conduct and public drunkenness go unpunished 507 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: and are likely to rise. Because I guess the point 508 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: is is that if you turn a corner in the 509 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: neighborhood begins to look like it's in disrepair and nobody 510 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: necessarily cares, the idea is that you could get away 511 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: with um, some illicit behavior because nobody's necessarily watching or 512 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: governing this. So this is this one's kind of interesting, 513 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: And then it kind of falls back on sort of 514 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: ideas of of of like a Mayberry kind of situation 515 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: where everyone knows everybody and everything's harmonious for that versus 516 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: a city model where you don't know the person in 517 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: the apartment across the hall from you, and it creates 518 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: this high sense of isolation and also a less of 519 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: a sense that I need to actually do what I 520 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: should because I'm I'm held in a social contract with 521 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: those around me. Well, the idea is that then if 522 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: you're not connected to your neighbors. Then you feel anonymous 523 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: and you feel like you're not as empowered. And if 524 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: you're the person who is is mischief making, then you 525 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: feel like you have a greater degree of freedom or 526 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: power because you are anonymous and other people are taking 527 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: on the same roles, so you don't have this informal 528 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: governance in check. And when we talk about me berry um, 529 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: this informal governance is a is a really good thing 530 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: to think about. Think about gossip, think about trying to 531 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: maintain one's reputation, think about being socially shunned. Think about 532 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: setting on your front porch with a jug band as 533 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: the sun goes down, which is actually just think about that. Yeah, 534 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: but but actually I say that jokingly as as a 535 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: may ory reference, but but actually you do see theories 536 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: where people say that that that is when everyone got 537 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: air conditioning, that that had a huge intrimental effect on 538 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: um on neighborhoods because before that you did set on 539 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: the front front porch, you did sort of hang it. 540 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: That was the only place during the hot summer months 541 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: that you could actually feel comfortable. If you're inside, you're sweltering, 542 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: and if you're out on the front porch, or within 543 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: side of other front porches, people make the rounds, people 544 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: say hi to each other. It's not an airtight theory necessarily, 545 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: but it's but it's an interesting way of looking at things. 546 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: Then we get air conditionings, so instead of setting on 547 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: the front porch, we're back inside. In many cases we 548 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: actually wall up that front porch and make it into 549 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: a part of our our castle. Yeah, and it's interesting that, 550 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, even if you were um to try to 551 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: organize and know as many neighbors as POSSI will and 552 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: try to put an effort into this into two you know, 553 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: really crowded areas, the fact of the matter is the 554 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: more people that you add, the more fragmented it gets. 555 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: So it's a difficult thing to organize. But um, Daniel O'Brien, 556 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: the author of Sociality in the City did say, when 557 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: when you look at these locustwarms, so there's a silver lining, 558 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: because he says that recall that, well, not just the 559 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: glimmering wings. No, no, a real silver lining. It's it's 560 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: just you know, it's funny that he's pumping up like this, 561 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: because I'll tell you what that silver lining is, and 562 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: then you decide if it's silver lining um that while 563 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: members of the swarm were inclined towards cannibalism, their marching 564 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: formation was an emergent adaptation for for avoiding this threat 565 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: and others. So I think what he's saying is that 566 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: to some degree, we're pretty self organizing and we're going 567 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: to prevent as much violence as we can. Um, you know, 568 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: like you saw in the primate population, perhaps turned to 569 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: scratching ourselves or whatnot to try not to express, um 570 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: some of the frustration and anxiety on onto others. In 571 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: In his paper, Daniel O'Brien also mentions a Stanley Milgram 572 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: system overload theory which was pretty interesting, and this basically 573 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: saying population density acts on adaptive psychology in a number 574 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: of key ways, one of which is the bystander effect, 575 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: which we've covered, but he also says that it creates 576 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: an enhanced feeling of vulnerability, which which having just spent 577 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: the weekend out in the middle of nowhere in the 578 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: country and then return to the city, I mean, I 579 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: can I can definitely vouch for that if you're surrounded 580 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: by nobody and you're not superstitious or afraid of cryptid 581 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: animals and bigfoot attacks, or or the stray bullet of 582 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: a hunter who mistakes you for a deer. Then then 583 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: you you feel pretty safe out in the middle of nowhere, 584 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: out in that splendid isolation. You move into the city 585 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: and you're the city is teeming with people you don't know, 586 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: people you on site don't trust, and who knows what's 587 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: out there? Right, There's just so many people and you 588 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: know that this percentage wise, a large proportion of them 589 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: are no good. Do you think, yeah, of course, I 590 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: don't know. Well, you know, it's like it's like in 591 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: a sense there, you know, they're accountable morphs out there, 592 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,479 Speaker 1: just show you that they're they're a cannibalistic crickets out there. 593 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: Not maybe not they're not actually going to eat you, 594 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: but they will definitely take from you. And I'm not 595 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: just saying, oh, they're gonna still my law on its 596 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: but but you know that there are a lot of 597 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: forces out there that if you come into contact with them, um, 598 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: it could have a negative effect on you. That being said, 599 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: that feeling also plays into this whole loss of connection 600 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: with neighborhood. We just trust everyone, and therefore we're less 601 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: likely to forge these these neighborhood bonds that can actually 602 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: have a beneficial effect on our society, which and this 603 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: is something I encounter as a as a homeowner in 604 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta you know, it's like you, and as 605 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: also being the kind of person who's not the most 606 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: social animal on the planet, I find myself thinking, Oh, 607 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: I should I should go meet that new neighbor, you know, 608 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: that would be the nice thing to do. But then 609 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: I should bring a pie to that. I should bring 610 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: a pie to them and tell them about the neighborhood 611 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: association and tell them about the dude I know it 612 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: was down the street. But then I don't because that's 613 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: talking to a new person, and that's that person could 614 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: be all sorts of the stripes of nuttiness. Well, no, 615 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: it's not so much that it's just like talking to 616 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: a new person that's stressful. They could just be normal, 617 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,239 Speaker 1: and that's stressful enough for someone like me. Okay, all 618 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: right now I'm thinking about all of this. I'm just 619 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: taking it in because I take the opposite tact where 620 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: if I'm out in the middle of nowhere, then I'm 621 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: more frightened than when I'm surrounded by people. I feel 622 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: more comforted by being around people. Well, well, of course, 623 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: real quick, I should also point out that high levels 624 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: of distrust and avoidance of strangers, that's also part of 625 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: the system overload theory. But to your point, feelings of 626 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: distrust in the in the country versus the city, Like 627 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: I said, in our fiction, we see just as many 628 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: cannibalistic hillbowy families as we see cannibalistic livers and dwellers 629 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: in the subway. And I have to say that, um, 630 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: looking at times that I have walked up to a 631 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: stranger's door or pulled into a stranger's driveway while lost, 632 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: only once have I had a gun pulled on me. 633 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: And it was up in the mountains of only once, 634 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: and it was like the mountains of Kennasa or someone. 635 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm not as good about the geography of the vast 636 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: hills surrounding Atlanta. But we were up there for a 637 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: wedding or something, and um, no, not worth something. It 638 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: was a wedding, Uh should I helped my wife shoot 639 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: a wedding for a friend. We attended it, and then 640 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: afterwards we were trying to find a bed and breakfast 641 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: that we had arranged to stay out and we're trying 642 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: to use GPS out there and it can't get a 643 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: signal where we're According to it, we're driving on imaginary 644 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: roads to nowhere. And then since we were, because we 645 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: ended up pulling, like going down this really steep gravel 646 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: driveway and some dude like walks out on his front 647 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: porch and he's just astounded that we're on this driveway. Yeah, 648 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: for twenty years and no one has shown up, and 649 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: here you guys are. And so I'm busy trying to 650 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: get the car to go back up the gravel road 651 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: because it's not really going and I'm having to carefully 652 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: figure out how traction works on the steep grade. And 653 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: meanwhile my and my wife sees this and she doesn't 654 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: tell me till till afterwards, but the guy had had 655 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: grabbed a shotgun. She's like, you know, just let you 656 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: focus on just trying to get the car out of there. 657 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: I understand that. So so yeah, just from my own 658 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: personal experience, you know, knock on wood, but that's the 659 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: that's the only time that I've had a gun pulled 660 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: on me when I was lost and just needed some direction, 661 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: and that was in the country. So which makes me 662 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: wonder if you can still have an isolationist mentality among 663 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: a great number of people. Yeah, because that's what we 664 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: see a lot a lot of times politically. So that's 665 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: just a sort of fought experiment. Let's revisit really quickly 666 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: because we have some thoughts about this. We we've talked 667 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: about the population increase, the explosion. I wanted to also 668 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: mention something called the youth bulge according to Kenneth Wise, 669 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: which sounds like a band, but it's u it does. 670 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: It sounds one that you could kind of snicker a 671 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: little bit at the title, but it is not. According 672 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: to Kenneth Wise, of the l a times of the 673 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: two billion or more people who will be added to 674 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: the planet by nine, seven percent of the two billion 675 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: are expected to be born in Africa, Asia and Latin America. UM, 676 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: he says, led by the poor, smoot, volatile countries. Yeah, 677 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: and this is worth pointing out to and this is 678 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: from the same article. All right, So in many developing countries, 679 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: runaway population growth creates hoards of restless young men, and 680 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: in about eight percent of the world civil conflicts since 681 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies UM. They have occurred in countries with young, 682 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: fast growing populations. Again, the youth bulges and that's according 683 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: the Population Action International nonprofit. So even if you look 684 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: back before nineteen seventy, a youth boom contributed the rise 685 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: in the Nazis in the nineteen thirties Germany and to 686 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: Japan's military ambitions in the Pacific uh and even more 687 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: recently you look just you also look to stuff like 688 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: Tianamen Square UM protests in China. You see UM, you 689 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: see young activists UM. And also in the US, look 690 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: at the nineteen sixties, look at the seventies, look at 691 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Occupy Wall Street movement. You're seeing large 692 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: numbers of young people engaged in these these activities. Yea, 693 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: And I wanted to point out to that. You know, 694 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: there are certain parts of which will stabilize in population. China, 695 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: for example, right now it has like fifty of the 696 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: world's population. By fifty they will add only one percent more. 697 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: So really you are seeing the greater growth in Africa, 698 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: Asia and Latin America. And Whist does talk about Afghanistan 699 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: in his article as an example of this. He says 700 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: that since the US lead Envision in two thousand and one, 701 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: the population has swelled from twenty three million to thirty 702 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: three million, and that nearly three fourths of Afghans are 703 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: under the age of thirty, the median age of sixteen 704 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: compared to thirty seven in the United States. So he's 705 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: saying this is a real problem because if you have 706 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: a sluggish, a grarian economy like they do, and you 707 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: have men, young men who can't find legitimate employment, and UM, 708 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: you also have young men who want to get married 709 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: but they require a dowry, then they're going to go 710 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: probably toward um illicit activities or towards the Taliban to 711 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: get some source of money or food to sustain themselves. 712 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: So they're saying like, even if they're not too interested 713 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: in the Taliban's politics or agenda, then they're probably gonna 714 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: go toward that route anyway because they don't have a 715 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: lot of options to choose from. The other huge problem 716 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: here is that UM, and again Afghanistan as the model here, 717 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: women truly are considered second class citizens and they don't 718 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: have many rights, and they don't have access to birth control. 719 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: And you will see time and time again that UH, 720 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: young girls who are educated who have access to birth 721 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: control will delay marriage, they will delay having children, and 722 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: will have less of them. UM. And you know, I 723 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: bring this up only because when when you're in that 724 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: situation Afghanistan in the average amount of children a female 725 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: has is seven seven babies. That's that's astounding, UM for 726 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: the lack of resources available to those children. Yeah, so 727 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: there's there is there's a comparison to be made there. 728 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you could think of these uh, these angry 729 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: young men is larval salamanders in a pool of it's 730 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: it's quickly filling up that whether resources are not optimal 731 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: and what are they going to do to deal with 732 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: that situation. So we've talked about this this problem before 733 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: and it's not just a question and and solution of 734 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: urban design that certainly helps UM and rethinking agriculture to 735 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: meet our needs that helps too, but it really is like, 736 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: what is this lookli and how can you help people 737 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: best um, particularly this youth bulge, And how can you 738 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: help society not just a self governed but to organize 739 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: itself to to really accommodate all the very his problems 740 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: that could arise. So there you go. If you live 741 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: in the city, I hope you'll think about all of 742 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: this as you walk the streets today or tomorrow. And uh, 743 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: information looking behind information, running from the cannibal behind you 744 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: and chasing after that tasty looking stranger in front of you. 745 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: And if you live in the in the country, I 746 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: I you know, think about all these things when you 747 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: plan your next trip to the city or Robert shows up. Yeah, 748 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: you've got to protect that mental app I guess. But 749 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: that's the only thing I could figure it is, like, dude, dude, 750 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 1: is that crazy about someone showing up? You must have 751 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: something to hide or captives in the in the cellar 752 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: that I almost that I almost joined. UM, So let's 753 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: call over the robit uh and get a few listener 754 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: mails from him. And while he's doing that, I wanted 755 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: to mention that we had uh an email from Linda 756 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: and she wrote into correct me about the f m 757 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: l A Act, and I'm very glad that she did. Um. 758 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: I had stated that this is the yeah, this is 759 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: from the milk episode. I've stated that women get six 760 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: weeks of unpaid leave office in fact, twelve weeks. UM, 761 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: So I'm glad that she pointed that out. And when 762 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: we talk about fm l A, we're talking about the 763 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: Family Medical Leave Act and that's not just for for children, 764 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: but also for taking care of other members of your family, 765 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: and it is available to people who have worked at 766 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: their job for a year and two companies they have 767 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: to uh, they have to actually offer it if they 768 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: have more than fifty employees. Okay, there we go. Cool. 769 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: And I should also note uh that I corrected this 770 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: on Facebook and Twitter, but for those of you who 771 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: don't follow those, I also in the milk episode, uh, 772 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: and without thinking, I mentioned Romulus and Remus, and I 773 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: think I either said or implied that they breastfed from 774 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: a cow, and of course they breastfed from a she 775 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: wolf in the Roman mythology. So my apat a duies 776 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: to Romulus, my apologies to Remus, and of course my 777 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: apologies to the sheet will Well, and I like how 778 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: you call the Rami and Remi and Remi. Yeah, well 779 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: that was those for their kids names. They're embarrassed when 780 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: you call them that now, but at the time. So hey, 781 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: let's let's read a couple of these mails. These are 782 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: some quick ones. Uh. We we get more mail than 783 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: we have space to to read on on air these days, 784 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: but and certainly this is a longer episode, so I'll 785 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: just read a couple of short ones, uh Andy writes, 786 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: and this is dear Julian, Robert just wanted to thank 787 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: you for putting out your science podcast. I really love 788 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: that you add a lot of philosophical ruminations to the 789 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: information you impart It's a great extra element that keeps 790 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: me coming back for more. Thanks again, sincerely, Andy. And Yeah, 791 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: that's what I mean. That's one of the things we 792 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: love about it is UH. It's not only talking about 793 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: these these very scientific topics or even kind of out 794 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: there topics, but ultimately bringing it all back to the 795 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,360 Speaker 1: human condition and in our perception of the cosmos, in 796 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 1: our place in it, and how does it potentially shift 797 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: or outright change that proposition. And a lot of the 798 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: feedback that we it from you guys really helps to 799 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: feel that as well. We've gotten some incredible thoughts from 800 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 1: you all. All right, and here's one from Jerich Jerk 801 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: writes in UH in response to our Seven Deadly Sins series, 802 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: which which was a real popular one with with you guys. 803 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 1: Send gals, He writes in and says, Hi, Robert and Julie, 804 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: I'm a new listener to the show, and I just 805 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: finished listening to the Seven Deadly Sin series. I was 806 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: wondering if anyone brought up the correlation between the seven 807 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: deadly sins and many of America's major holidays. The thought 808 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: first hit me several years ago after I had just 809 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: stuffed myself with turkey on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving for gluttony, eat two, 810 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: you can't move and take a nap, Valenstein's Valentine's Day 811 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 1: for lust, a whole day dedicated to luthern Wace, Labor 812 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: Day for sloth, have a day off you deserve it. 813 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: Christmas for greed, presence presence, Fourth of July for wrath, 814 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,280 Speaker 1: celebrate your country's independence by blowing up a small portion 815 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: of it um and Veterans Day for pride. I don't 816 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: have any commentary for this one yet. I don't have 817 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: a holiday for envy, but I would love to hear 818 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: if you have an idea for for one. I also 819 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,399 Speaker 1: realized that you may need need a somewhat cynical point 820 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: of view for the holidays, but I submit that a 821 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: decent argument could be made for each of the sins. 822 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your podcast. Please keep up the great work. 823 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: Jarek Um. Yeah, all those comparisons I think are pretty apt. 824 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,839 Speaker 1: But indeed, is there one for envy? This could be 825 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: for envy as well. Could do you do Old Judy 826 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: in the Yeah, I mean indeed, because you know, we 827 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 1: talked about the interconnectedness of some of these and indeed, 828 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: coming down to at heart, it's about grasping for something 829 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: that you don't have on a certain level, So you 830 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: could you could see Christmas is that you're you're grasping 831 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: for something. You you see things you want and you 832 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: desire them, So you could make an argument there, I 833 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,879 Speaker 1: think more so than you could for like say Patty's Day, 834 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 1: which is probably just another that's that's cluttony as well. 835 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: Yeah um oh. And then Jarek also adds while writing this, 836 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: I was listening to the Way of the Sword podcast 837 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,399 Speaker 1: and feel it should be noted that watching a real 838 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: sword fight is not nearly as entertaining as watching the 839 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 1: movie fights. I have fence for several years in college, 840 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: and when friends and family would come to watch competitions, 841 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: most would get bored before too long. While the added 842 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: blood effects of a real fight would be exciting, I 843 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: doubt it would be overly enjoyable to witness an extremely 844 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: painful death. So that's interesting that he brings that up, 845 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: because you know, I think I thinking to sword fights 846 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: that have been most entertaining in in films like that. 847 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: I guess that you have to you have to walk 848 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,399 Speaker 1: that line between believability and enjoyability. I'm just imagining now 849 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: that that fencers should start to smuggle in blood capsules 850 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: right and employ them at the right moment. I really 851 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: feel like you guys would get huge sponsorship dollars if 852 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: you did this, or if they incorporated more of the 853 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: the old swash buffling, like you know, you run up 854 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,720 Speaker 1: a chair and then you sort of like tip forward 855 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,799 Speaker 1: with it. Things like that roll over the back of 856 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,320 Speaker 1: the table, so more. If they just held Olympic fencing 857 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: events in side crowded pubs, that might that might help. 858 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: Although somehow I just doesn't seem like the right fit, 859 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: does it. Fencing I think is always going to be 860 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: just sort of a white glove thing and beautiful and 861 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: and a wonderful art. But blood capsules, pubs, crazy costumes, 862 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, paint those suits up. I don't know. I mean, 863 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: of course, this is me talking. I've yeah, I tend 864 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: to gravitate towards the gravitate towards the professional wrestling because 865 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: I find that it is, uh, it is just fake enough, um, 866 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: whereas I find real fighting is either boring or disturbing. 867 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,799 Speaker 1: But if you if it's if it's fake enough, it's 868 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 1: theatrical enough that I can get behind it. And I 869 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,360 Speaker 1: guess I'm kind of the same way with sword fights. 870 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to see a clinical exhibition of someone's 871 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,800 Speaker 1: fencing prowess, but I also don't want to see a 872 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: like a plotless just you know, flashing images of laser 873 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,720 Speaker 1: swords hitting each other and needs to tell a story. 874 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: So what you guys are hearing, I think are the 875 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: seeds of a science of wrestling podcasts to come to see. Anyway, 876 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: I've rambled enough, uh and now once you're turning to ramble, 877 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: So if you have something you would like to share 878 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: with us, If you have some interesting notes of by 879 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: standard effect in your life, um, if you have thoughts 880 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: about cannibal morphs and uh and and just anything regarding 881 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: h uh stuff that we've talked about in this episode 882 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 1: or other episodes, let us know about it. You can 883 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,839 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, where we are stuff to blow 884 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: your mind. You can find us on Twitter, where our 885 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: handles blow the mind and new to us. You can 886 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: also find us on Tumbler, where we are stuff to 887 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: blow your mind one word, do a search for that. 888 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: And also I've been linking to it off the other profiles. 889 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,760 Speaker 1: We just started that up. We're really getting into tumbler, 890 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: still learning all the awesome things that can do. So 891 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: if that's your thing, find us there and follow us, 892 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: and always feel free to send us a line at 893 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: blew the Mind at discovery dot com for more on 894 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does It How stuff 895 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: works dot com One