1 00:00:08,285 --> 00:00:09,605 Speaker 1: School of Humans. 2 00:00:13,405 --> 00:00:16,885 Speaker 2: It was April twelfth, nineteen seventy one. A twenty seven 3 00:00:16,965 --> 00:00:20,125 Speaker 2: year old woman named Pauline Stormant was walking down South 4 00:00:20,205 --> 00:00:23,285 Speaker 2: Duncan Avenue in Fayetteville, Arkansas, just a few blocks from 5 00:00:23,325 --> 00:00:27,245 Speaker 2: her apartment. She didn't know that someone was following her 6 00:00:27,325 --> 00:00:31,245 Speaker 2: in the darkness. Pauline worked two part time jobs, one 7 00:00:31,365 --> 00:00:33,805 Speaker 2: is a cashier at the Malco Theater and another as 8 00:00:33,845 --> 00:00:36,805 Speaker 2: a secretary at the ROTC Center on the University of 9 00:00:36,885 --> 00:00:40,805 Speaker 2: Arkansas campus. Pauline had recently started going back to school 10 00:00:40,805 --> 00:00:43,925 Speaker 2: as a mature student. She enrolled as a sophomore at 11 00:00:43,965 --> 00:00:46,485 Speaker 2: the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville, where she was a 12 00:00:46,485 --> 00:00:51,125 Speaker 2: social welfare major. Pauline had a roommate, Alice pat Murphy. 13 00:00:52,485 --> 00:00:57,205 Speaker 2: Pat later told the authorities that Pauline wasn't dating anyone. Actually, 14 00:00:57,245 --> 00:00:59,645 Speaker 2: Pauline spent most of her free time hitting the books. 15 00:00:59,965 --> 00:01:02,565 Speaker 2: She was very focused on schoolwork, which meant that she 16 00:01:02,645 --> 00:01:06,525 Speaker 2: was often pulling late nights at the library. On that night, 17 00:01:06,605 --> 00:01:09,845 Speaker 2: on April twelfth, Pauline did a shift at the ROTC. 18 00:01:10,725 --> 00:01:13,205 Speaker 2: While she was there, she mentioned to a coworker that 19 00:01:13,245 --> 00:01:16,965 Speaker 2: she might go to a gospel concert later, but she 20 00:01:17,045 --> 00:01:18,725 Speaker 2: ended up going to the library to study. 21 00:01:19,565 --> 00:01:19,845 Speaker 1: Now. 22 00:01:19,885 --> 00:01:23,605 Speaker 2: According to her roommate, Pauline's regular routine would have had 23 00:01:23,605 --> 00:01:26,165 Speaker 2: her coming home at around ten thirty or eleven PM, 24 00:01:26,925 --> 00:01:29,885 Speaker 2: but something made her lead the library a little earlier 25 00:01:29,925 --> 00:01:33,405 Speaker 2: that night, around nine thirty pm. And then while she 26 00:01:33,485 --> 00:01:36,045 Speaker 2: was walking, when she was just a few blocks from 27 00:01:36,045 --> 00:01:40,365 Speaker 2: her apartment, someone came out of that darkness and attacked Pauline, 28 00:01:41,005 --> 00:01:44,245 Speaker 2: stabbing her over and over eight times in all, in 29 00:01:44,285 --> 00:01:47,965 Speaker 2: a frenzied attack that lasted several minutes. It was a 30 00:01:48,005 --> 00:01:50,885 Speaker 2: hot night, a lot of people had their windows open, 31 00:01:51,485 --> 00:01:54,725 Speaker 2: and at nine forty five pm when Pauline started screaming, 32 00:01:55,085 --> 00:01:57,405 Speaker 2: a lot of people in the area heard her screaming, 33 00:01:57,925 --> 00:02:01,325 Speaker 2: and there were several witnesses who saw a man come 34 00:02:01,405 --> 00:02:05,765 Speaker 2: up behind her. But despite that, Pauline's killer is escaped 35 00:02:05,805 --> 00:02:09,405 Speaker 2: into the night. And even though the police have questioned 36 00:02:09,445 --> 00:02:12,525 Speaker 2: tons of people, lots of theories have been explored over 37 00:02:12,525 --> 00:02:16,885 Speaker 2: the years, and there was one arrest, Pauline's killer has 38 00:02:17,005 --> 00:02:21,565 Speaker 2: never been found. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five 39 00:02:21,645 --> 00:02:25,005 Speaker 2: years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've 40 00:02:25,085 --> 00:02:27,885 Speaker 2: learned there's no such thing as a small town where 41 00:02:27,965 --> 00:02:32,125 Speaker 2: murder never happens. I've received hundreds of messages from people 42 00:02:32,205 --> 00:02:35,085 Speaker 2: all around the country asking for help with an unsolved 43 00:02:35,165 --> 00:02:39,165 Speaker 2: murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. If 44 00:02:39,205 --> 00:02:41,245 Speaker 2: you have a case you'd like me and my team 45 00:02:41,245 --> 00:02:43,765 Speaker 2: to look into, you can reach out to us at 46 00:02:43,765 --> 00:02:47,085 Speaker 2: our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven 47 00:02:47,165 --> 00:02:50,645 Speaker 2: four four six one four or five. That's six seven 48 00:02:50,685 --> 00:02:54,725 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six ' one four five. This 49 00:02:54,925 --> 00:03:29,325 Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. 50 00:03:30,445 --> 00:03:32,805 Speaker 1: Police got to the scene really quickly. 51 00:03:33,085 --> 00:03:37,325 Speaker 2: They rushed Pauline to Washington Regional Hospital, but they couldn't 52 00:03:37,365 --> 00:03:39,405 Speaker 2: do anything to save her, and she was pronounced dead 53 00:03:39,725 --> 00:03:43,445 Speaker 2: just after eleven PM. So the assault had very quickly 54 00:03:43,485 --> 00:03:46,445 Speaker 2: turned into a murder case. Pauline's body was sent for 55 00:03:46,445 --> 00:03:51,085 Speaker 2: an autopsy. Forensic testing revealed that Pauline had died of 56 00:03:51,125 --> 00:03:53,565 Speaker 2: the stab wounds. She had been stabbed in the arm, 57 00:03:54,045 --> 00:03:57,485 Speaker 2: the chest, and the stomach. Investigators said the murder weapon 58 00:03:57,605 --> 00:04:00,485 Speaker 2: was a knife like a butcher knife, around six to 59 00:04:00,525 --> 00:04:04,685 Speaker 2: eight inches long, and they believed serrated on both sides. 60 00:04:05,485 --> 00:04:08,085 Speaker 2: The police did not find the murder weapon at the scene, 61 00:04:08,405 --> 00:04:11,725 Speaker 2: but several days later, the sheriff did find a butcher 62 00:04:11,765 --> 00:04:14,525 Speaker 2: knife that was stabbed into the ground behind an apartment 63 00:04:14,565 --> 00:04:17,205 Speaker 2: complex that was across the street from where Pauline lived. 64 00:04:18,045 --> 00:04:20,885 Speaker 2: They sent that knife in for testing, but I haven't 65 00:04:20,885 --> 00:04:23,245 Speaker 2: been able to figure out what, if anything, happened with 66 00:04:23,325 --> 00:04:26,125 Speaker 2: that weapon. A lot of people doubted that that butcher 67 00:04:26,205 --> 00:04:28,165 Speaker 2: knife had been the weapon in the first place, because 68 00:04:28,165 --> 00:04:31,325 Speaker 2: it wasn't serrated. But as far as I know, and 69 00:04:31,405 --> 00:04:33,885 Speaker 2: there is a lot of information missing in this case, 70 00:04:34,245 --> 00:04:36,645 Speaker 2: there was nothing conclusive, ever proven one way. 71 00:04:36,605 --> 00:04:36,965 Speaker 1: Or the other. 72 00:04:38,045 --> 00:04:41,725 Speaker 2: Sadly, that knife, along with a ton of other evidence, 73 00:04:41,765 --> 00:04:42,445 Speaker 2: has been lost. 74 00:04:42,885 --> 00:04:47,685 Speaker 1: We'll get to that later. Side note. 75 00:04:47,805 --> 00:04:50,325 Speaker 2: While I was working on Gail Vaut's case, which we 76 00:04:50,365 --> 00:04:53,085 Speaker 2: covered a couple of weeks back, as part of that, 77 00:04:53,605 --> 00:04:56,605 Speaker 2: we started looking around for other unsolved murders in the 78 00:04:56,605 --> 00:05:01,565 Speaker 2: same area of Arkansas. Even though Pauline's murder happened nine 79 00:05:01,645 --> 00:05:05,205 Speaker 2: years earlier than Gail's murder in nineteen eighty, I couldn't 80 00:05:05,245 --> 00:05:09,125 Speaker 2: help but be struck by Pauline's case because, even though 81 00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:12,965 Speaker 2: them was completely different for Pauline and Gail, Gail was 82 00:05:12,965 --> 00:05:15,445 Speaker 2: shot in the head and appeared to have been sexually assaulted, 83 00:05:15,765 --> 00:05:19,045 Speaker 2: while Pauline was stabbed in a semi public area both 84 00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:22,605 Speaker 2: women were tall with shoulder linked brown hair, and both 85 00:05:22,685 --> 00:05:23,725 Speaker 2: cases were unsolved. 86 00:05:25,085 --> 00:05:25,965 Speaker 1: I want to be cleared. 87 00:05:26,005 --> 00:05:28,685 Speaker 2: Nothing in the evidence I've seen indicates these cases are 88 00:05:28,685 --> 00:05:33,205 Speaker 2: connected in any way. The mos were completely different. Gail 89 00:05:33,325 --> 00:05:34,805 Speaker 2: was shot in the head and appeared to have been 90 00:05:34,805 --> 00:05:40,725 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. Pauline was stabbed in a semi public area. 91 00:05:40,925 --> 00:05:43,605 Speaker 2: Amy reached out to a member of Pauline's family named 92 00:05:43,685 --> 00:05:47,965 Speaker 2: Lance Gosnell. His great grandmother is Pauline's aunt, so he's 93 00:05:48,005 --> 00:05:51,405 Speaker 2: her cousin and he's been hearing about Pauline's story about 94 00:05:51,405 --> 00:05:54,405 Speaker 2: this famous unsolved murder in his family for a long time, 95 00:05:54,445 --> 00:05:57,045 Speaker 2: since he was very young. A few years ago, he 96 00:05:57,125 --> 00:06:00,285 Speaker 2: decided to try and find answers. He started writing about 97 00:06:00,285 --> 00:06:04,125 Speaker 2: the case. The website is at who Murdered Pauline dot 98 00:06:04,165 --> 00:06:08,645 Speaker 2: WordPress dot com, and he's compiled a tremendous amount of 99 00:06:08,645 --> 00:06:10,965 Speaker 2: evidence over the years that he's collected a lot of 100 00:06:10,965 --> 00:06:15,405 Speaker 2: it through Foyer requests. Pauline Stormant was born on April third, 101 00:06:15,485 --> 00:06:19,165 Speaker 2: nineteen forty four, in Ozark, Arkansas, and her family her 102 00:06:19,205 --> 00:06:21,245 Speaker 2: mom and dad were still living in Ozark when she 103 00:06:21,325 --> 00:06:25,085 Speaker 2: died from a young age. Her family described her as 104 00:06:25,125 --> 00:06:28,765 Speaker 2: someone who was very serious, pretty quiet, and liked to study. 105 00:06:29,205 --> 00:06:31,725 Speaker 2: She was not a drinker or a partier in high school, 106 00:06:31,965 --> 00:06:34,045 Speaker 2: and it seemed to be pretty much the same story 107 00:06:34,045 --> 00:06:38,805 Speaker 2: in college. After she graduated from high school, she attended 108 00:06:38,885 --> 00:06:42,845 Speaker 2: Arkansas Tech University in Russellville. She finished her freshman year 109 00:06:42,845 --> 00:06:45,485 Speaker 2: there and after that she left school and started doing 110 00:06:45,565 --> 00:06:50,605 Speaker 2: some secretarial work. So one thing about Pauline's stormant her 111 00:06:50,685 --> 00:06:54,365 Speaker 2: studies and her work life are pretty well documented. Her 112 00:06:54,405 --> 00:06:56,645 Speaker 2: personal life is much more of a mystery. 113 00:06:57,365 --> 00:06:58,805 Speaker 1: There are some years. 114 00:06:58,605 --> 00:07:01,605 Speaker 2: Between when she was twenty one and twenty seven where 115 00:07:01,645 --> 00:07:05,085 Speaker 2: we don't know a lot about her personal relationships. When 116 00:07:05,085 --> 00:07:07,485 Speaker 2: she was twenty one years old, in nineteen sixty five, 117 00:07:07,685 --> 00:07:10,605 Speaker 2: Pauline got married to a man named Charles Joseph Pate. 118 00:07:11,325 --> 00:07:13,645 Speaker 2: A lot of their relationship, as we said, is a mystery, 119 00:07:14,245 --> 00:07:17,365 Speaker 2: but we do know that whatever happened between them apparently 120 00:07:17,405 --> 00:07:20,645 Speaker 2: did not end very well. Charles and Pauline lived in 121 00:07:20,685 --> 00:07:23,525 Speaker 2: Memphis for a while. While Pauline was in Memphis, she 122 00:07:23,565 --> 00:07:25,685 Speaker 2: taught first aid for the Red Cross as well as 123 00:07:25,685 --> 00:07:29,045 Speaker 2: doing some secretarial work. Again, a lot of the history 124 00:07:29,085 --> 00:07:32,245 Speaker 2: about Pauline in this case was provided by her cousin Lance. 125 00:07:32,605 --> 00:07:35,605 Speaker 3: One other thing that jumps out in my mind is 126 00:07:36,365 --> 00:07:39,285 Speaker 3: the records show that she was married to a man 127 00:07:39,365 --> 00:07:44,845 Speaker 3: named Charles Pate. The marriage didn't last long. I can't 128 00:07:44,885 --> 00:07:49,285 Speaker 3: find a door forced certificate, but she had mentioned to 129 00:07:49,445 --> 00:07:52,845 Speaker 3: a roommate who she had lived with when she was 130 00:07:52,885 --> 00:07:56,605 Speaker 3: either in Memphis or Atlanta, that she was deathly afraid 131 00:07:56,605 --> 00:07:57,445 Speaker 3: of her ex husband. 132 00:07:59,125 --> 00:08:02,445 Speaker 2: So Pauline and Charles were estranged, but according to her 133 00:08:02,445 --> 00:08:06,165 Speaker 2: family and to court records, they may not have beneficially divorced. 134 00:08:06,805 --> 00:08:11,005 Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy one, Pauline was at the University 135 00:08:11,045 --> 00:08:13,925 Speaker 2: of Arkansas. She had put her studies on hold while 136 00:08:13,965 --> 00:08:16,685 Speaker 2: she was married to Charles, but once Pauline got the 137 00:08:16,765 --> 00:08:19,525 Speaker 2: chance to complete her education, she seemed to really throw 138 00:08:19,525 --> 00:08:23,965 Speaker 2: herself into it. Information from a foyer request from an 139 00:08:24,005 --> 00:08:28,925 Speaker 2: old police report shows that Pauline's former roommate, the one 140 00:08:29,005 --> 00:08:31,765 Speaker 2: who Lance was referring to, who she had lived with 141 00:08:31,805 --> 00:08:35,565 Speaker 2: in Memphis. That woman's name was Iris Fletcher. She was 142 00:08:35,605 --> 00:08:38,405 Speaker 2: the one who talked about Pauline's fear of her ex husband. 143 00:08:39,125 --> 00:08:43,525 Speaker 2: But apparently police ruled out Charles fairly early. I don't 144 00:08:43,565 --> 00:08:45,965 Speaker 2: know why I have really tried to figure that out, 145 00:08:45,965 --> 00:08:47,965 Speaker 2: but I don't have a lot of information about the 146 00:08:48,005 --> 00:08:51,605 Speaker 2: investigation because a lot of the case file is gone 147 00:08:51,645 --> 00:08:53,765 Speaker 2: over the years, a lot of the evidence and a 148 00:08:53,805 --> 00:08:57,645 Speaker 2: lot of the pages have been lost. But apparently he 149 00:08:57,685 --> 00:09:00,525 Speaker 2: attended the funeral, was cooperative with the police, and was 150 00:09:00,565 --> 00:09:06,525 Speaker 2: cleared early. Pauline's college roommate passed the one who said 151 00:09:06,525 --> 00:09:09,805 Speaker 2: that Pauline didn't date that much. Was asked by police 152 00:09:09,845 --> 00:09:12,845 Speaker 2: if anything strange had happened on the day Pauline was murdered, 153 00:09:13,325 --> 00:09:15,445 Speaker 2: and she said, yes, there was one. 154 00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:16,845 Speaker 1: Thing that was out of the ordinary. 155 00:09:17,765 --> 00:09:21,325 Speaker 2: She said that at around two pm that afternoon, apparently 156 00:09:21,405 --> 00:09:25,445 Speaker 2: two men who were described as white men, young guys 157 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:29,765 Speaker 2: who Pauline and her roommate didn't know, invited Pauline and 158 00:09:29,805 --> 00:09:32,645 Speaker 2: pat for drinks. The two women said no thanks and 159 00:09:32,685 --> 00:09:35,845 Speaker 2: didn't take them up on their offer. Later, the two 160 00:09:35,965 --> 00:09:38,725 Speaker 2: men reportedly went toward the residence of a guy named 161 00:09:38,725 --> 00:09:43,525 Speaker 2: Gordon Cummings. Gordon Cummings with someone who we know Pauline 162 00:09:43,525 --> 00:09:46,325 Speaker 2: had been introduced to. She knew him, but we don't 163 00:09:46,365 --> 00:09:48,685 Speaker 2: know how well she knew him, and that will be 164 00:09:48,725 --> 00:09:51,325 Speaker 2: the case with a lot of these relationships. Trying to 165 00:09:51,365 --> 00:09:54,325 Speaker 2: figure out exactly how these people were related and connected 166 00:09:54,365 --> 00:09:59,165 Speaker 2: each other is a huge part of this. We all 167 00:09:59,245 --> 00:10:02,925 Speaker 2: know that sometimes in these cases, these tiny little details 168 00:10:02,925 --> 00:10:05,445 Speaker 2: that we know are true and am using air quotes 169 00:10:05,565 --> 00:10:08,765 Speaker 2: there turn out to be slightly wrong, and those slightly 170 00:10:08,805 --> 00:10:12,165 Speaker 2: wrong details can multiply over the years and turn into 171 00:10:12,205 --> 00:10:13,645 Speaker 2: a much larger distortion. 172 00:10:13,765 --> 00:10:16,605 Speaker 1: We've seen this happen over and over with so many cases. 173 00:10:17,005 --> 00:10:20,645 Speaker 2: Facts are wrong from the beginning, and they're repeated wrong 174 00:10:20,725 --> 00:10:24,965 Speaker 2: over the years. At the same time, though, sometimes tiny 175 00:10:25,005 --> 00:10:27,845 Speaker 2: details are left out and you never know which ones 176 00:10:27,925 --> 00:10:32,925 Speaker 2: could lead to cracking the case. Jane Jones wrote a long, 177 00:10:33,165 --> 00:10:36,125 Speaker 2: very in depth article about this case in Ay about 178 00:10:36,205 --> 00:10:37,845 Speaker 2: U magazine back in twenty twenty. 179 00:10:38,365 --> 00:10:40,765 Speaker 1: She pointed out that it was a full moon that night. 180 00:10:41,205 --> 00:10:44,285 Speaker 2: This was something that had appeared in some early news reports, 181 00:10:44,605 --> 00:10:47,565 Speaker 2: and that detail supposedly meant that Pauline could be seen 182 00:10:47,605 --> 00:10:51,965 Speaker 2: by the witnesses that night. But actually, because I obsess 183 00:10:52,005 --> 00:10:54,405 Speaker 2: over these things, I went back and found out actually 184 00:10:54,485 --> 00:10:55,925 Speaker 2: the moon wasn't full that night. 185 00:10:56,005 --> 00:10:57,445 Speaker 1: It was a waning gibbous moon. 186 00:10:58,005 --> 00:11:00,205 Speaker 2: Not that that makes any difference in the context of 187 00:11:00,205 --> 00:11:03,845 Speaker 2: the investigation at all, because actually a waning gibbus is 188 00:11:03,885 --> 00:11:05,765 Speaker 2: almost a full moon. It's actually the part of the 189 00:11:05,845 --> 00:11:08,925 Speaker 2: lunar phase right after the moon is full. It would 190 00:11:08,925 --> 00:11:11,565 Speaker 2: be almost as light as a full moon out there, 191 00:11:12,125 --> 00:11:15,405 Speaker 2: but probably a little bit less poetic in a newspaper article, 192 00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:18,045 Speaker 2: And I'm bringing this up just to illustrate it's one 193 00:11:18,165 --> 00:11:22,205 Speaker 2: tiny example of something we thought we knew wrong. Information 194 00:11:22,245 --> 00:11:25,765 Speaker 2: gets repeated over the years, and sometimes it multiplies. So 195 00:11:25,845 --> 00:11:27,885 Speaker 2: I'm really trying to go back and take a look 196 00:11:27,925 --> 00:11:30,205 Speaker 2: at every single piece of information that we have and 197 00:11:30,725 --> 00:11:33,405 Speaker 2: try to understand if we really know everything that we 198 00:11:33,445 --> 00:11:40,165 Speaker 2: think we know. Police were trying to figure out what 199 00:11:40,245 --> 00:11:43,565 Speaker 2: Pauline's plans had been that night, to see if, other 200 00:11:43,605 --> 00:11:45,965 Speaker 2: than the two guys asking her in her roommate to 201 00:11:46,005 --> 00:11:48,605 Speaker 2: have drinks, anything else oude of the ordinary had happened. 202 00:11:49,605 --> 00:11:52,285 Speaker 2: Police talked to a woman named Terry Keating. Now Terry 203 00:11:52,725 --> 00:11:55,965 Speaker 2: worked with Pauline at the ROTC office. She said she 204 00:11:56,005 --> 00:11:58,925 Speaker 2: had seen Pauline at around seven thirty pm and that 205 00:11:59,005 --> 00:12:02,725 Speaker 2: Pauline had mentioned something about a gospel concert hosted by 206 00:12:02,725 --> 00:12:06,525 Speaker 2: a group called Black Americans for Democracy. This concert was 207 00:12:06,565 --> 00:12:08,805 Speaker 2: going to be held at the Union Ballroom, a building 208 00:12:08,845 --> 00:12:12,245 Speaker 2: that was basically very close right next door to the ROTC. 209 00:12:12,405 --> 00:12:15,005 Speaker 1: Building. It started at eight pm. 210 00:12:15,445 --> 00:12:19,445 Speaker 2: But whether Pauline attended that concert or not is still 211 00:12:19,525 --> 00:12:22,765 Speaker 2: kind of a question mark because some reports say she 212 00:12:22,925 --> 00:12:25,605 Speaker 2: was planning to go. Other media reports say she told 213 00:12:25,605 --> 00:12:27,685 Speaker 2: someone she had a class or a conflict and she 214 00:12:27,685 --> 00:12:31,925 Speaker 2: could not attend. Lance pointed out something interesting on his website. 215 00:12:31,965 --> 00:12:35,605 Speaker 2: He said that we're talking about nineteen seventy one Arkansas, 216 00:12:36,085 --> 00:12:39,125 Speaker 2: and he was speculating, but he said, could some racist 217 00:12:39,205 --> 00:12:42,045 Speaker 2: person have taken offense at a white woman planning to 218 00:12:42,085 --> 00:12:44,765 Speaker 2: go to this concert where there were going to be 219 00:12:44,805 --> 00:12:46,045 Speaker 2: a lot of black singers? 220 00:12:46,725 --> 00:12:49,405 Speaker 1: Total speculation, but given the political. 221 00:12:48,925 --> 00:12:51,685 Speaker 2: Climate at the time, I do think it's something that 222 00:12:51,965 --> 00:12:55,205 Speaker 2: police would have to consider. But there was no evidence 223 00:12:55,245 --> 00:12:58,285 Speaker 2: that this was ever a factor. So whether or not 224 00:12:58,445 --> 00:13:02,205 Speaker 2: Pauline made it to that concert. Eventually, after she worked 225 00:13:02,245 --> 00:13:07,325 Speaker 2: her shift at the ROTC, she ended up at the library. 226 00:13:08,125 --> 00:13:11,365 Speaker 2: She was seen by multiple witnesses there, but then she 227 00:13:11,565 --> 00:13:15,725 Speaker 2: left suddenly. We don't know exactly what time, but by 228 00:13:15,765 --> 00:13:19,605 Speaker 2: tracing her route, she must have headed outside at around 229 00:13:19,645 --> 00:13:20,285 Speaker 2: nine point thirty. 230 00:13:21,085 --> 00:13:23,005 Speaker 1: So why did she leave early? 231 00:13:23,405 --> 00:13:26,565 Speaker 2: Was it a coincidence or did she see something or 232 00:13:26,685 --> 00:13:31,045 Speaker 2: someone there that bothered her? After she left the library, 233 00:13:31,085 --> 00:13:34,605 Speaker 2: Pauline's root would have taken her south along Duncan Avenue. 234 00:13:34,685 --> 00:13:36,045 Speaker 1: She was walking pretty. 235 00:13:35,765 --> 00:13:38,285 Speaker 2: Slowly and carefully because she had a big stack of 236 00:13:38,285 --> 00:13:41,285 Speaker 2: books in her hands. So again I'm betting that she 237 00:13:41,365 --> 00:13:44,645 Speaker 2: headed straight home because she was balancing lots of school books. 238 00:13:45,885 --> 00:13:48,565 Speaker 2: She was at the intersection of Duncan Avenue and Treadwell 239 00:13:48,565 --> 00:13:54,085 Speaker 2: Streets when her attacker struck. The vicious attack happened very quickly, 240 00:13:54,605 --> 00:13:58,085 Speaker 2: and then her attacker left the scene on foot. Another 241 00:13:58,205 --> 00:14:00,525 Speaker 2: thing that we know for sure in this case is 242 00:14:00,565 --> 00:14:03,125 Speaker 2: the time of death. We know she was screaming at 243 00:14:03,205 --> 00:14:06,405 Speaker 2: nine forty five pm because several people heard her at 244 00:14:06,405 --> 00:14:09,085 Speaker 2: the same time. One of them was twenty four year 245 00:14:09,125 --> 00:14:12,165 Speaker 2: old Jack Huff. He lived at the Summit Terraces apartments, 246 00:14:12,165 --> 00:14:15,485 Speaker 2: which were nearby. He said when he heard that scream, 247 00:14:15,845 --> 00:14:19,685 Speaker 2: he ran downstairs and he saw Pauline kind of staggering 248 00:14:19,765 --> 00:14:24,045 Speaker 2: toward him and holding her stomach. He told the police 249 00:14:24,085 --> 00:14:27,245 Speaker 2: that Pauline said someone hit her in the chest, and 250 00:14:27,365 --> 00:14:30,245 Speaker 2: that she said someone was following her, someone who was 251 00:14:30,245 --> 00:14:35,365 Speaker 2: wearing glasses. Another witness named Mike Adare, also lived nearby. 252 00:14:36,205 --> 00:14:38,885 Speaker 2: He said he'd actually seen Pauline before the attack. 253 00:14:38,925 --> 00:14:39,325 Speaker 1: Happened. 254 00:14:39,765 --> 00:14:42,365 Speaker 2: He said he was driving home and at the corner 255 00:14:42,405 --> 00:14:45,005 Speaker 2: of Duncan and Center, right where she got attacked, He 256 00:14:45,045 --> 00:14:47,965 Speaker 2: said he saw her carrying some really heavy books and 257 00:14:48,005 --> 00:14:48,565 Speaker 2: he saw a. 258 00:14:48,525 --> 00:14:49,405 Speaker 1: Man following her. 259 00:14:50,565 --> 00:14:54,365 Speaker 2: Two other men, Gary Gammel and Joe Clifton, were driving 260 00:14:54,485 --> 00:14:57,525 Speaker 2: in separate cars north on South Duncan and they were 261 00:14:57,565 --> 00:15:01,245 Speaker 2: approaching that same intersection. Joe also lived at the Summit 262 00:15:01,325 --> 00:15:05,405 Speaker 2: Terrace apartment complex. He told investigators that he also saw 263 00:15:05,645 --> 00:15:09,125 Speaker 2: man following Pauline. He said he noticed she was carrying 264 00:15:09,165 --> 00:15:12,005 Speaker 2: some heavy books and he thought about asking her if 265 00:15:12,045 --> 00:15:14,605 Speaker 2: she wanted a lift, but in the end he didn't. 266 00:15:14,965 --> 00:15:17,805 Speaker 2: Then a few seconds later, he said he heard the scream. 267 00:15:18,445 --> 00:15:22,165 Speaker 2: He heard her screaming, help me. So Joe and Gary 268 00:15:22,205 --> 00:15:25,205 Speaker 2: are also there in their cars. They both rushed up 269 00:15:25,245 --> 00:15:28,285 Speaker 2: to the scene. Gary said that from his point of view, 270 00:15:28,565 --> 00:15:30,965 Speaker 2: he saw Pauline collapse to the ground. He said when 271 00:15:31,005 --> 00:15:33,885 Speaker 2: he looked around, he saw her books and her personal 272 00:15:33,885 --> 00:15:36,805 Speaker 2: belongings on the ground, but he didn't see anyone else. 273 00:15:37,325 --> 00:15:40,165 Speaker 2: He said when he saw Pauline, she was holding her chest. 274 00:15:40,645 --> 00:15:43,645 Speaker 2: He approached her and when he got closer he could 275 00:15:43,685 --> 00:15:45,645 Speaker 2: see that she was lying half in the yard and 276 00:15:45,685 --> 00:15:48,405 Speaker 2: half in the street. He said that her white skirt 277 00:15:48,485 --> 00:15:52,565 Speaker 2: in one of her arms were completely soaked blood. Joe 278 00:15:52,605 --> 00:15:55,085 Speaker 2: said that he asked Pauline if the man that was 279 00:15:55,165 --> 00:15:56,125 Speaker 2: following her did this. 280 00:15:57,645 --> 00:15:58,605 Speaker 1: She told him yes. 281 00:15:59,685 --> 00:16:01,925 Speaker 2: He then started trying to help her, asking where her 282 00:16:01,965 --> 00:16:05,085 Speaker 2: cuts were and which way the man went, but he 283 00:16:05,125 --> 00:16:08,205 Speaker 2: said it. At this point, Pauline didn't know where the 284 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:10,845 Speaker 2: man went, and she was kind of slipping in and 285 00:16:10,845 --> 00:16:20,165 Speaker 2: out of consciousness. She kept asking for her books. Detectives 286 00:16:20,165 --> 00:16:23,765 Speaker 2: did find Pauline's black purse with her wallet and ID 287 00:16:23,925 --> 00:16:27,165 Speaker 2: in it near her body. They took it in for testing, 288 00:16:27,245 --> 00:16:29,485 Speaker 2: but only found one set of fingerprints, and it turned 289 00:16:29,485 --> 00:16:32,685 Speaker 2: out that they were Pauline's, so police knew it was 290 00:16:32,805 --> 00:16:35,845 Speaker 2: unlikely the killer's motive had been robbery. It didn't seem 291 00:16:35,885 --> 00:16:38,645 Speaker 2: like they grabbed for her purse at all. They were 292 00:16:38,685 --> 00:16:43,405 Speaker 2: trying to hurt her, not take her stuff. Police asked 293 00:16:43,445 --> 00:16:46,285 Speaker 2: all four witnesses some detailed questions about the man that 294 00:16:46,325 --> 00:16:49,885 Speaker 2: they said they saw following Pauline. Mike Adair said the 295 00:16:49,885 --> 00:16:52,525 Speaker 2: man following Pauline was wearing a brown sport coat and 296 00:16:52,605 --> 00:16:55,925 Speaker 2: had blonde or dirty blonde hair, around five ten to 297 00:16:55,965 --> 00:16:59,445 Speaker 2: six feet tall and wearing glasses. So the police did 298 00:16:59,445 --> 00:17:03,445 Speaker 2: a sketch according to these guys descriptions and in the 299 00:17:03,605 --> 00:17:06,125 Speaker 2: end it's kind of random. But this sketch, a lot 300 00:17:06,165 --> 00:17:08,765 Speaker 2: of people pointed out, kind of looked like the Zodiac Killer. 301 00:17:09,485 --> 00:17:12,085 Speaker 2: By the way, no, there was no evidence the Zodiac 302 00:17:12,165 --> 00:17:16,205 Speaker 2: Killer was ever involved, So like the Zodiac Killer sketch, 303 00:17:16,645 --> 00:17:19,725 Speaker 2: the sketch in Pauline's case was pretty generic. No one 304 00:17:19,725 --> 00:17:22,805 Speaker 2: had actually seen this man's face, so it was a 305 00:17:22,845 --> 00:17:26,685 Speaker 2: sketch of a guy with slicked back hair and glasses, again, 306 00:17:27,125 --> 00:17:29,325 Speaker 2: a pretty common look on a college campus. 307 00:17:29,685 --> 00:17:31,005 Speaker 1: This guy could have been anyone. 308 00:17:31,725 --> 00:17:34,485 Speaker 2: When Mike was asked about the police sketch, he said, yes, 309 00:17:34,525 --> 00:17:36,925 Speaker 2: it did look similar to the man he saw, but 310 00:17:37,165 --> 00:17:38,925 Speaker 2: he pointed out that the hair of the guy he 311 00:17:38,965 --> 00:17:42,005 Speaker 2: saw was messier, not slick back like on that sketch. 312 00:17:43,405 --> 00:17:47,365 Speaker 2: There were two other potential witnesses, Robert Spray and John Hall. 313 00:17:48,525 --> 00:17:51,885 Speaker 2: These guys lived nearby at twelve South Hill Street. They 314 00:17:51,965 --> 00:17:53,685 Speaker 2: said they had seen a man who could have been 315 00:17:53,685 --> 00:17:55,965 Speaker 2: involved in the crime because the guy kind of fit 316 00:17:56,005 --> 00:17:58,885 Speaker 2: the description of the assailant. He had a sport code on. 317 00:17:59,245 --> 00:18:01,885 Speaker 2: He was described as being medium height with a slight build. 318 00:18:02,365 --> 00:18:04,645 Speaker 2: They said that this guy was kind of stumbling around 319 00:18:04,765 --> 00:18:07,605 Speaker 2: like he was drunk, but they didn't have a lot 320 00:18:07,645 --> 00:18:09,645 Speaker 2: to go on. They didn't have a description of the car, 321 00:18:10,085 --> 00:18:13,405 Speaker 2: and in the end police never definitively found that person, 322 00:18:13,885 --> 00:18:16,565 Speaker 2: so it seemed to be a dead end. So police 323 00:18:16,605 --> 00:18:19,085 Speaker 2: had no idea what the motive had been, but they 324 00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:22,965 Speaker 2: did have potentially four different people who said they definitively 325 00:18:23,045 --> 00:18:26,885 Speaker 2: saw the killer, but their descriptions differed slightly, which of 326 00:18:26,885 --> 00:18:30,165 Speaker 2: course is not uncommon in a case like this, but 327 00:18:30,285 --> 00:18:33,165 Speaker 2: they did all agree on one thing. Pauline had been 328 00:18:33,205 --> 00:18:37,525 Speaker 2: attacked by one person, one man, who stabbed her multiple times, 329 00:18:38,165 --> 00:18:40,485 Speaker 2: and they said that man had been following her and 330 00:18:40,565 --> 00:18:43,085 Speaker 2: was able to get very close to her before he pounced. 331 00:18:45,125 --> 00:18:48,005 Speaker 2: Because of where Pauline's injuries were, the fact that she 332 00:18:48,045 --> 00:18:50,685 Speaker 2: had stab wounds on the front of her body, police 333 00:18:50,725 --> 00:18:53,205 Speaker 2: figured out she had turned around to face her attacker, 334 00:18:54,005 --> 00:18:57,485 Speaker 2: so they wondered was it someone she knew, Was that 335 00:18:57,725 --> 00:19:01,605 Speaker 2: how they were able to get that close, or were 336 00:19:01,645 --> 00:19:04,325 Speaker 2: they just really fast and could they have snuck up 337 00:19:04,325 --> 00:19:08,405 Speaker 2: on her that quickly. The police admitted they didn't know 338 00:19:08,405 --> 00:19:12,005 Speaker 2: if this had been someone fixated on Pauline specifically, or 339 00:19:12,205 --> 00:19:16,645 Speaker 2: someone targeting women totally randomly, or even possibly a case 340 00:19:16,645 --> 00:19:20,525 Speaker 2: of mistaken identity. Because it was pretty dark it was night, 341 00:19:20,925 --> 00:19:23,645 Speaker 2: none of the men who saw this stranger were that close, 342 00:19:24,245 --> 00:19:27,805 Speaker 2: so even though there were multiple witnesses, not a single 343 00:19:27,845 --> 00:19:30,765 Speaker 2: one got a good look at the killer's face. But 344 00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:34,245 Speaker 2: police did know one thing that was such a vicious attack. 345 00:19:34,885 --> 00:19:38,765 Speaker 2: The person who stabbed Pauline would have blood on their clothing, 346 00:19:39,645 --> 00:19:42,765 Speaker 2: so police canvassed the area. They were looking for a 347 00:19:42,845 --> 00:19:46,725 Speaker 2: suspect covered in blood, and it wasn't long before they 348 00:19:46,765 --> 00:19:50,765 Speaker 2: found one. A few minutes after the stabbing, police were 349 00:19:50,805 --> 00:19:54,005 Speaker 2: cruising the area when two officers saw two young men 350 00:19:54,045 --> 00:19:57,885 Speaker 2: sitting on a bench. According to a very good article 351 00:19:57,925 --> 00:20:01,205 Speaker 2: in Master Detective magazine from nineteen seventy four, they were 352 00:20:01,205 --> 00:20:03,525 Speaker 2: around five blocks away from the crime scene when they 353 00:20:03,565 --> 00:20:06,005 Speaker 2: saw these guys. One of them was so seventeen year 354 00:20:06,045 --> 00:20:09,445 Speaker 2: old Wallace Peter Cunkle. So the police start talking to 355 00:20:09,485 --> 00:20:12,565 Speaker 2: these guys and apparently they told the officers that they 356 00:20:12,565 --> 00:20:15,565 Speaker 2: were just hanging around. They were supposed to have had 357 00:20:15,645 --> 00:20:18,005 Speaker 2: dates with two girls, but they'd been stood up. But 358 00:20:18,085 --> 00:20:20,885 Speaker 2: when police asked them for more details, the guys said 359 00:20:20,885 --> 00:20:23,445 Speaker 2: they didn't even know these girls' names, which honestly seems 360 00:20:23,485 --> 00:20:25,645 Speaker 2: a little bit strange to me that they wouldn't even 361 00:20:25,685 --> 00:20:28,525 Speaker 2: have a first name. But apparently the police thought this 362 00:20:28,565 --> 00:20:32,365 Speaker 2: story was believable. As the detective was talking to Peter Cunkle, 363 00:20:32,445 --> 00:20:36,365 Speaker 2: he noticed some dark spots on his white shirt, jacket, 364 00:20:36,405 --> 00:20:41,045 Speaker 2: and trousers. Later it was determined those were blood. When 365 00:20:41,085 --> 00:20:43,645 Speaker 2: the officer asked Peter why he had blood on his clothes, 366 00:20:43,965 --> 00:20:47,725 Speaker 2: Peter said he'd had a nosebleed recently. Now, to police, 367 00:20:47,725 --> 00:20:50,605 Speaker 2: with everything going on, this seemed like a pretty big coincidence, 368 00:20:50,965 --> 00:20:54,005 Speaker 2: so they took him in for questioning. They took his clothes, 369 00:20:54,045 --> 00:20:57,005 Speaker 2: and they took samples of his blood. Now, obviously this 370 00:20:57,125 --> 00:20:59,845 Speaker 2: was back in nineteen seventy one, so the testing they 371 00:20:59,845 --> 00:21:02,045 Speaker 2: could do on blood was much more limited than it 372 00:21:02,125 --> 00:21:05,845 Speaker 2: is now. They could basically tell you what type blood 373 00:21:05,845 --> 00:21:10,925 Speaker 2: it was, and that's about it. Peter got a lawyer, 374 00:21:11,325 --> 00:21:15,165 Speaker 2: and his lawyer said he refused to take a polygraph test. Now, 375 00:21:15,245 --> 00:21:17,125 Speaker 2: by the way, I don't hold this against him at all, 376 00:21:17,325 --> 00:21:20,045 Speaker 2: just my opinion, but I've said this before. I actually 377 00:21:20,045 --> 00:21:22,845 Speaker 2: think this is a very smart move. Honestly, asking for 378 00:21:22,885 --> 00:21:25,845 Speaker 2: an attorney, especially in a situation like this where you 379 00:21:25,925 --> 00:21:28,725 Speaker 2: know the police are kind of on a fishing expedition, 380 00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:33,885 Speaker 2: is something that I think everyone should do. Peter told police, 381 00:21:33,925 --> 00:21:36,005 Speaker 2: and this is according to his police statement that was 382 00:21:36,045 --> 00:21:38,965 Speaker 2: released via a Foyer request, that he and a friend 383 00:21:39,205 --> 00:21:41,365 Speaker 2: were boiling water with speed that night. 384 00:21:42,085 --> 00:21:44,165 Speaker 1: So we've talked about injectable speed before. 385 00:21:44,285 --> 00:21:46,565 Speaker 2: That was a big thing in the seventies and eighties 386 00:21:46,565 --> 00:21:49,725 Speaker 2: in Arkansas, and what they were using was a drug 387 00:21:49,765 --> 00:21:52,365 Speaker 2: that was similar to finfinn. Now, if you were around 388 00:21:52,365 --> 00:21:54,845 Speaker 2: in the eighties, you may remember that this was an 389 00:21:54,925 --> 00:21:57,605 Speaker 2: ingredient in a diet drug before it got removed from 390 00:21:57,645 --> 00:21:59,885 Speaker 2: the market by the FDA in the mid nineties because 391 00:21:59,925 --> 00:22:03,285 Speaker 2: people who took it were experiencing heart damage. These pills 392 00:22:03,325 --> 00:22:06,845 Speaker 2: were very strong, they were speed. What they would do 393 00:22:06,965 --> 00:22:09,245 Speaker 2: is boil water, throw a lot of pills in there, 394 00:22:09,645 --> 00:22:12,925 Speaker 2: and then inject this stuff into their veins. So Peter 395 00:22:12,965 --> 00:22:14,765 Speaker 2: Kunkle said that's what they were doing that night. He 396 00:22:14,805 --> 00:22:17,365 Speaker 2: said he started shooting up at around seven thirty pm. 397 00:22:17,925 --> 00:22:20,725 Speaker 2: He took another shot at eight pm and then did 398 00:22:20,765 --> 00:22:22,885 Speaker 2: a few other things. Stopped by a local store called 399 00:22:22,925 --> 00:22:25,565 Speaker 2: the jet Set to get a sprite. Then between nine 400 00:22:25,725 --> 00:22:28,285 Speaker 2: thirty and nine to forty five pm, so the crucial 401 00:22:28,525 --> 00:22:31,685 Speaker 2: time when Pauline would have been walking from the library. 402 00:22:32,125 --> 00:22:34,205 Speaker 2: He said a friend of his named Richard Finley, who 403 00:22:34,245 --> 00:22:36,525 Speaker 2: had been hanging out with that night, asked Peter to 404 00:22:36,565 --> 00:22:39,525 Speaker 2: take him home, So Peter said they borrowed one of 405 00:22:39,525 --> 00:22:42,525 Speaker 2: their friend's motorcycles, and then he claims that he gave 406 00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:46,045 Speaker 2: Richard a ride home and their route would have involved 407 00:22:46,045 --> 00:22:50,285 Speaker 2: cutting right through Dixon Avenue, right through the crime scene. 408 00:22:50,405 --> 00:22:53,485 Speaker 2: After dropping Richard home, Peter said that he went back 409 00:22:53,525 --> 00:22:54,365 Speaker 2: to the Grayhouse. 410 00:22:54,525 --> 00:22:57,925 Speaker 1: This was the place where he'd been staying, so Peter 411 00:22:58,245 --> 00:22:58,925 Speaker 1: was in the area. 412 00:22:59,605 --> 00:23:03,605 Speaker 2: According to the Arkansas Razorback newspaper, both Peter Kuncle and 413 00:23:03,725 --> 00:23:09,125 Speaker 2: Pauline had Type A blood, but unfortunately, these small amounts 414 00:23:09,125 --> 00:23:12,405 Speaker 2: of blood that drops on Peter's clothes, they didn't have 415 00:23:12,525 --> 00:23:15,165 Speaker 2: enough to test it in the lab back then. So 416 00:23:15,405 --> 00:23:17,885 Speaker 2: the bottom line was a lot of people have blood 417 00:23:17,925 --> 00:23:21,405 Speaker 2: Type A and they had no physical evidence tying Peter 418 00:23:21,485 --> 00:23:24,525 Speaker 2: to the crime scene. And Peter had a good attorney. 419 00:23:25,485 --> 00:23:27,605 Speaker 2: His attorney was on point, and he cut a deal 420 00:23:27,645 --> 00:23:30,365 Speaker 2: with the police. He said, Peter would agree to take 421 00:23:30,405 --> 00:23:33,685 Speaker 2: a lot of detector test but only if the police 422 00:23:33,685 --> 00:23:36,925 Speaker 2: would agree that if Peter passed that test, basically they 423 00:23:36,925 --> 00:23:37,605 Speaker 2: would clear him. 424 00:23:37,925 --> 00:23:41,325 Speaker 1: And apparently the police agreed to do that and Peter passed. 425 00:23:41,685 --> 00:23:45,565 Speaker 2: So Peter Conkle was released from police custody and publicly 426 00:23:45,645 --> 00:23:51,165 Speaker 2: cleared by law enforcement. The police chief, Hollis Spencer, said 427 00:23:51,205 --> 00:23:54,645 Speaker 2: that police were quote satisfied that he had no part 428 00:23:54,685 --> 00:23:58,845 Speaker 2: in the murder of Miss stormant end quote. Then Peter 429 00:23:58,965 --> 00:24:02,285 Speaker 2: cuncle and his parents held a press conference and he 430 00:24:02,365 --> 00:24:04,445 Speaker 2: was very emotional at this press conference. I remember he's 431 00:24:04,485 --> 00:24:06,965 Speaker 2: only seventeen years old and he was crying. He told 432 00:24:06,965 --> 00:24:09,205 Speaker 2: everybody he didn't blame the police, they were just doing 433 00:24:09,285 --> 00:24:11,365 Speaker 2: their job. He said he always knew he would be 434 00:24:11,445 --> 00:24:14,445 Speaker 2: cleared and he completely denied having anything to do with 435 00:24:14,485 --> 00:24:19,605 Speaker 2: Pauline's murder. By the way, the charges against Peter were dropped, 436 00:24:19,605 --> 00:24:22,805 Speaker 2: but they were what we call nelly prost meaning dismissed 437 00:24:22,845 --> 00:24:26,245 Speaker 2: without prejudice, so if new evidence ever comes to light, 438 00:24:27,125 --> 00:24:32,005 Speaker 2: he could technically have been retried. After Peter was released, 439 00:24:32,045 --> 00:24:35,365 Speaker 2: police started looking for other people of interest. They did 440 00:24:35,365 --> 00:24:38,365 Speaker 2: a lot of interviews, they reportedly gave a lot more 441 00:24:38,405 --> 00:24:42,525 Speaker 2: a lie detector tests, and then just a month after 442 00:24:42,605 --> 00:24:46,645 Speaker 2: Pauline was murdered, a second University of Arkansas co ed 443 00:24:46,965 --> 00:24:51,485 Speaker 2: was stabbed. Her name was Andrea Jones and she lived 444 00:24:51,565 --> 00:24:54,445 Speaker 2: about one point eight miles from where Pauline was attacked. 445 00:24:55,325 --> 00:24:58,365 Speaker 2: Police arrested a man named Eddie Rush. He was twenty 446 00:24:58,445 --> 00:25:00,685 Speaker 2: one years old and not a student at the University 447 00:25:00,685 --> 00:25:05,445 Speaker 2: of Arkansas. Apparently Eddie Rush lied his way into andrew 448 00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:09,645 Speaker 2: his apartment and attacked her. He stabbed her several times, 449 00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:13,885 Speaker 2: but she survived. Eddie Rush was convicted and sentenced to 450 00:25:13,925 --> 00:25:16,445 Speaker 2: twenty one years in prison for attempted murder. 451 00:25:17,685 --> 00:25:19,725 Speaker 1: And we're bringing Eddie Rush. 452 00:25:19,565 --> 00:25:23,925 Speaker 2: Up because his picture in the newspaper from back then 453 00:25:24,525 --> 00:25:27,885 Speaker 2: looks very much like the sketch that was circulated of 454 00:25:27,965 --> 00:25:32,245 Speaker 2: Pauline's attacker. He's got a short buzz cut, but he 455 00:25:32,325 --> 00:25:35,685 Speaker 2: does have glasses, and he would seem to fit the 456 00:25:35,725 --> 00:25:40,285 Speaker 2: general description. Eddie Rush passed away several years ago, and 457 00:25:40,365 --> 00:25:45,725 Speaker 2: because in Pauline's case, there's no DNA attest, sadly there's 458 00:25:45,805 --> 00:25:48,925 Speaker 2: no way to investigate him now. But after that, no 459 00:25:48,925 --> 00:25:52,965 Speaker 2: one else was arrested or charged. Then, on May twenty second, 460 00:25:53,045 --> 00:25:56,165 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, a man named Jack Butler walked into 461 00:25:56,165 --> 00:25:59,685 Speaker 2: the Faateful Police Department. He said he had something to 462 00:25:59,725 --> 00:26:03,525 Speaker 2: tell police. He claimed that he had murdered Pauline Storman. 463 00:26:11,165 --> 00:26:13,525 Speaker 2: Jack Butler's story was that he was hanging around a 464 00:26:13,565 --> 00:26:16,725 Speaker 2: swimming pool on the University of Arkansas campus. He said 465 00:26:16,725 --> 00:26:19,085 Speaker 2: after that he went home and got a pocket knife 466 00:26:19,085 --> 00:26:22,805 Speaker 2: and started strolling through Evergreen Cemetery. He said that he 467 00:26:22,885 --> 00:26:25,685 Speaker 2: saw a woman and started following her and attacked her 468 00:26:25,725 --> 00:26:28,605 Speaker 2: and stabbed her from behind. This is where the story 469 00:26:28,645 --> 00:26:31,845 Speaker 2: gets a little strange, because apparently he thought the woman 470 00:26:32,005 --> 00:26:34,725 Speaker 2: was his wife. He told police when he got home 471 00:26:34,765 --> 00:26:37,245 Speaker 2: he was shocked because he thought his wife was dead 472 00:26:37,245 --> 00:26:39,405 Speaker 2: and she was ready to have dinner. He said he 473 00:26:39,525 --> 00:26:43,285 Speaker 2: only later realized that the woman he had supposedly stabbed 474 00:26:43,325 --> 00:26:47,325 Speaker 2: was Pauline Stormant. But he said a lot of things 475 00:26:47,325 --> 00:26:50,605 Speaker 2: that didn't seem to fit the evidence or actually make sense. 476 00:26:51,285 --> 00:26:54,725 Speaker 2: Like he said he had stabbed Pauline three times, when 477 00:26:54,725 --> 00:26:56,485 Speaker 2: we know she'd been stabbed a lot more than that. 478 00:26:57,525 --> 00:26:59,965 Speaker 2: And he also said she was carrying a record player 479 00:27:00,005 --> 00:27:03,245 Speaker 2: at the time. If you were anywhere near that scene, 480 00:27:03,285 --> 00:27:05,045 Speaker 2: you know she had a big stack of books in 481 00:27:05,045 --> 00:27:09,005 Speaker 2: her hands. Police apparently decided this confession was erroneous and 482 00:27:09,325 --> 00:27:13,325 Speaker 2: Jack Butler was cut loose. Also, more time went by 483 00:27:13,405 --> 00:27:17,845 Speaker 2: in the case seemed to go cold. I like to 484 00:27:17,885 --> 00:27:20,245 Speaker 2: look at old cases so we can see the techniques 485 00:27:20,285 --> 00:27:24,005 Speaker 2: that work. On April eighth, nineteen eighty one, ten years 486 00:27:24,045 --> 00:27:28,725 Speaker 2: after Pauline's murder, in Texarkana, two siblings, fourteen year old 487 00:27:28,805 --> 00:27:32,565 Speaker 2: Karen Alexander and thirteen year old Gordon Alexander, were fatally 488 00:27:32,605 --> 00:27:34,205 Speaker 2: stabbed to death inside their home. 489 00:27:35,205 --> 00:27:37,365 Speaker 1: For decades, this was a cold case. 490 00:27:37,885 --> 00:27:41,285 Speaker 2: Police said Karen had been sexually assaulted shortly before the murder. 491 00:27:42,165 --> 00:27:45,485 Speaker 2: The murder weapon was a butter knife, but police never 492 00:27:45,525 --> 00:27:49,765 Speaker 2: made any arrests over the years. Like in Pauline's case, 493 00:27:49,805 --> 00:27:51,165 Speaker 2: a lot of people said it could have been a 494 00:27:51,165 --> 00:27:54,125 Speaker 2: serial killer, could have been Henry Lee Lucas. Apparently he 495 00:27:54,165 --> 00:27:58,125 Speaker 2: claimed responsibility for those killings, but later, like so many 496 00:27:58,165 --> 00:28:01,005 Speaker 2: of Henry Lee Lucas's other confessions, it was proven to 497 00:28:01,045 --> 00:28:05,485 Speaker 2: be false. He was nowhere near Texarkana when these murders happened. 498 00:28:07,325 --> 00:28:10,125 Speaker 2: It was a really tragic story because after the murders 499 00:28:10,125 --> 00:28:13,165 Speaker 2: of her children, their mother took her own life after 500 00:28:13,165 --> 00:28:17,485 Speaker 2: suffering from depression. And it wasn't until forty two years later, 501 00:28:17,845 --> 00:28:20,565 Speaker 2: when a detective took up the case and resubmitted some 502 00:28:20,605 --> 00:28:24,205 Speaker 2: forensic evidence into codis that they discovered the killer was 503 00:28:24,245 --> 00:28:28,245 Speaker 2: there all along. It was the children's father, Weldon Alexander, 504 00:28:28,565 --> 00:28:31,845 Speaker 2: who had supposedly had an airtight alibi working an overnight 505 00:28:31,885 --> 00:28:36,325 Speaker 2: shift a copper Tyron rubber plant. Police believe he had 506 00:28:36,325 --> 00:28:39,685 Speaker 2: been sexually assaulting his daughter Karen for months. They believed 507 00:28:39,685 --> 00:28:41,445 Speaker 2: that on the morning when the children were killed, or 508 00:28:41,525 --> 00:28:45,165 Speaker 2: possibly the night before, he attempted to rape Karen, she 509 00:28:45,325 --> 00:28:48,285 Speaker 2: fought him off or her brother tried to intervene. 510 00:28:48,325 --> 00:28:50,365 Speaker 1: They both ended up being brutally murdered. 511 00:28:50,805 --> 00:28:54,325 Speaker 2: It is a sad and horrific case, but I'm bringing 512 00:28:54,365 --> 00:28:58,085 Speaker 2: it up because sometimes all it takes is one fresh 513 00:28:58,125 --> 00:29:00,525 Speaker 2: set of eyes who can look at the case file 514 00:29:00,845 --> 00:29:03,765 Speaker 2: and break the case. The time of death being a 515 00:29:03,765 --> 00:29:06,765 Speaker 2: little bit earlier or later than police think someone's alibi 516 00:29:06,845 --> 00:29:12,685 Speaker 2: not checking out. Even the coldest cases can be solved now. Obviously, 517 00:29:12,965 --> 00:29:16,685 Speaker 2: in that case, the Alexander murders, there was DNA that 518 00:29:16,725 --> 00:29:19,205 Speaker 2: could be resubmitted, which I'm not sure is true for 519 00:29:19,245 --> 00:29:23,445 Speaker 2: Pauline's case, But for all the families out there, you 520 00:29:23,605 --> 00:29:25,445 Speaker 2: have a cold case that has been going on for 521 00:29:25,565 --> 00:29:32,885 Speaker 2: years or decades, there's always hope. So back to Pauline's case. 522 00:29:33,645 --> 00:29:38,085 Speaker 2: Pauline's family didn't give up, and eventually Lance started writing 523 00:29:38,125 --> 00:29:40,845 Speaker 2: on his website and posting on sites like web slues. 524 00:29:42,965 --> 00:29:47,485 Speaker 2: Lance said that at one point law enforcement actually put 525 00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:51,485 Speaker 2: in an email quote at the moment, only a deathbed 526 00:29:51,525 --> 00:29:54,245 Speaker 2: confession or a secret diary hidden away in an attict 527 00:29:54,285 --> 00:29:56,405 Speaker 2: basement or bible will close this case. 528 00:29:56,845 --> 00:29:57,325 Speaker 1: End quote. 529 00:29:58,565 --> 00:30:01,725 Speaker 2: Given the fact that police say there's no DNA, and 530 00:30:01,885 --> 00:30:04,365 Speaker 2: this is what we're left with, what's next for this case? 531 00:30:04,965 --> 00:30:07,045 Speaker 2: If the four why a request information we have so 532 00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:10,245 Speaker 2: far as correct, there's apparently no DNA to test, so 533 00:30:10,485 --> 00:30:15,245 Speaker 2: authorities can't do, for example, familial DNA testing. Over the years, 534 00:30:15,365 --> 00:30:17,485 Speaker 2: a lot of people have put a lot of different 535 00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:22,365 Speaker 2: theories forward. Some people compared Pauline's case to Betsy Ardsma's 536 00:30:22,405 --> 00:30:25,125 Speaker 2: murder because both of them were killed in college libraries. 537 00:30:25,645 --> 00:30:26,725 Speaker 1: Police have said there's. 538 00:30:26,565 --> 00:30:29,965 Speaker 2: No connection between those two cases. Some people suggested it 539 00:30:30,005 --> 00:30:32,485 Speaker 2: could be the Zodiac or Ted Bundy a serial killer, 540 00:30:32,485 --> 00:30:35,445 Speaker 2: but again, there was absolutely no evidence of this and 541 00:30:35,485 --> 00:30:39,725 Speaker 2: this was not Ted Bundy's mo Honestly, there's no evidence 542 00:30:39,725 --> 00:30:42,325 Speaker 2: that this was a serial killer at all. But as 543 00:30:42,405 --> 00:30:45,405 Speaker 2: Lance said, so far, the evidence seems to point to 544 00:30:45,445 --> 00:30:48,405 Speaker 2: a more personal murder, some kind of crime of passion. 545 00:30:49,045 --> 00:30:50,845 Speaker 2: So if there's going to be a break in this case, 546 00:30:51,125 --> 00:30:54,245 Speaker 2: it's almost certainly not going to be from retesting of DNA, 547 00:30:54,605 --> 00:30:57,165 Speaker 2: because so much of it has been lost. It's going 548 00:30:57,165 --> 00:31:01,045 Speaker 2: to be from someone who knows something. It's also interesting 549 00:31:01,205 --> 00:31:04,045 Speaker 2: that so many people, all the witnesses, seem to agree 550 00:31:04,045 --> 00:31:07,045 Speaker 2: on a couple of things, including the fact the person 551 00:31:07,085 --> 00:31:10,485 Speaker 2: who stabbed Pauline approached on foot. None of them remember 552 00:31:10,525 --> 00:31:13,685 Speaker 2: hearing a car afterwards. So this is a person who 553 00:31:13,725 --> 00:31:16,565 Speaker 2: obviously felt confident enough that they could move quickly enough 554 00:31:16,605 --> 00:31:19,245 Speaker 2: on that campus that they could get very close to 555 00:31:19,285 --> 00:31:22,725 Speaker 2: her without her being alarmed and without anyone else noticing them. 556 00:31:23,005 --> 00:31:26,165 Speaker 2: They believed that they fit in, and they probably did, 557 00:31:26,525 --> 00:31:30,165 Speaker 2: because remember several people saw a man following Pauline and 558 00:31:30,205 --> 00:31:32,405 Speaker 2: they didn't realize that was anything out of the ordinary 559 00:31:32,485 --> 00:31:36,445 Speaker 2: until they heard the screams. This person's plan was to 560 00:31:36,525 --> 00:31:39,445 Speaker 2: attack Pauline and to flee the scene, and that's what 561 00:31:39,485 --> 00:31:42,445 Speaker 2: they did, and it worked, because up until now this 562 00:31:42,485 --> 00:31:45,405 Speaker 2: person has gotten away with this murder. They walked up 563 00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:47,405 Speaker 2: to a young woman in the prime of her life, 564 00:31:48,125 --> 00:31:52,405 Speaker 2: murdered her and got away clean. Was it someone who 565 00:31:52,485 --> 00:31:55,205 Speaker 2: knew Pauline who had some kind of a grudge or 566 00:31:55,285 --> 00:31:57,405 Speaker 2: was it someone who maybe was obsessed with her, who 567 00:31:57,445 --> 00:32:00,165 Speaker 2: wanted to know her and was frustrated because they couldn't 568 00:32:00,205 --> 00:32:03,605 Speaker 2: make contact in the way they wanted. Remember, in nineteen 569 00:32:03,685 --> 00:32:06,485 Speaker 2: seventy four Master Detective magazine, he had published that big 570 00:32:06,605 --> 00:32:10,725 Speaker 2: article about the killing. In the nineteen eighties, the magazine 571 00:32:10,725 --> 00:32:17,885 Speaker 2: got an anonymous letter. The letter was postmarked Capron, Virginia, 572 00:32:18,325 --> 00:32:20,485 Speaker 2: and so that police had not caught the real killer. 573 00:32:20,925 --> 00:32:23,845 Speaker 2: The letter said that Pauline's killer had targeted her because 574 00:32:23,845 --> 00:32:26,285 Speaker 2: they believed she was someone else, that the whole thing 575 00:32:26,405 --> 00:32:30,005 Speaker 2: had been a mistake. Investigators did take some fingerprints off 576 00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:33,285 Speaker 2: that document, but tragically those prints, along with so much 577 00:32:33,285 --> 00:32:36,325 Speaker 2: other evidence, suffered the same fate. They were lost by 578 00:32:36,405 --> 00:32:40,885 Speaker 2: law enforcement. But the postmark is interesting for another reason. 579 00:32:41,165 --> 00:32:44,445 Speaker 2: There's a correctional facility there called the Southampton Correctional Center. 580 00:32:44,525 --> 00:32:48,765 Speaker 2: Lance points that out on his website. Now, there were 581 00:32:49,045 --> 00:32:52,005 Speaker 2: some inmates there who did time who were supposedly friends 582 00:32:52,005 --> 00:32:56,245 Speaker 2: of Peter Cunkle's and Joe Clifton, one of the witnesses 583 00:32:56,725 --> 00:33:00,285 Speaker 2: was also there incarcerated for a period of time. This 584 00:33:00,485 --> 00:33:03,725 Speaker 2: is very interesting to me because I wonder could that 585 00:33:03,925 --> 00:33:07,285 Speaker 2: mean that the police were about Peter Cuncle, that maybe 586 00:33:07,285 --> 00:33:10,645 Speaker 2: he targeted Pauline because he thought she was his day 587 00:33:10,645 --> 00:33:13,525 Speaker 2: who stood him up? And what about Joe Clifton, Could 588 00:33:13,605 --> 00:33:20,645 Speaker 2: he have been more than a witness. There are so 589 00:33:21,005 --> 00:33:23,885 Speaker 2: many mysteries in this case. I have so many questions 590 00:33:23,925 --> 00:33:28,365 Speaker 2: about the investigation, about these people's relationship to each other, 591 00:33:28,725 --> 00:33:31,005 Speaker 2: whether all of them just happened to randomly be there, 592 00:33:31,085 --> 00:33:33,165 Speaker 2: or whether there was more to these stories. And I 593 00:33:33,205 --> 00:33:37,205 Speaker 2: also have questions about Pauline's ex husband. How conclusively he, 594 00:33:37,485 --> 00:33:40,125 Speaker 2: or for that matter, any of these people were ruled out. 595 00:33:41,085 --> 00:33:42,765 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that any one of these people is 596 00:33:42,805 --> 00:33:44,005 Speaker 1: responsible for her murder. 597 00:33:44,565 --> 00:33:47,405 Speaker 2: Again, We're just trying to follow the threads to pick 598 00:33:47,485 --> 00:33:49,925 Speaker 2: up on anything that might have been missed over the years. 599 00:33:50,445 --> 00:33:53,165 Speaker 2: No one has ever been arrested or charged with this murder, 600 00:33:54,245 --> 00:33:57,165 Speaker 2: so I'm doing what I usually do. We're reaching out 601 00:33:57,205 --> 00:33:59,485 Speaker 2: to anyone who may have been in the area on 602 00:33:59,525 --> 00:34:02,125 Speaker 2: that day, who may have seen anything, any detailed, no 603 00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:05,165 Speaker 2: matter how small. We're breaking out a giant pot of 604 00:34:05,205 --> 00:34:08,005 Speaker 2: CAF and were going through some case files with a 605 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:13,005 Speaker 2: lot of missing pages. According to his obituary, Charles Pate. 606 00:34:13,165 --> 00:34:17,645 Speaker 2: After he divorced Pauline, served in Vietnam, got numerous commendations, 607 00:34:17,685 --> 00:34:20,485 Speaker 2: and later got a job working for the Smithsonian Institute. 608 00:34:20,885 --> 00:34:23,405 Speaker 2: He moved back to Arkansas and became a fishing guide. 609 00:34:23,685 --> 00:34:28,765 Speaker 2: He passed away in twenty eighteen. Then there's Gordon Cummings, 610 00:34:28,885 --> 00:34:32,605 Speaker 2: the guy Pauline knew, and the two friends who asked 611 00:34:32,605 --> 00:34:34,525 Speaker 2: the girls if they wanted to have drinks that day? 612 00:34:35,045 --> 00:34:37,125 Speaker 2: Who were those guys? Could they have had anything to 613 00:34:37,125 --> 00:34:39,525 Speaker 2: do with this? Could they have seen something? Or could 614 00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:42,605 Speaker 2: those two men have had anything to do with Peter 615 00:34:42,725 --> 00:34:45,245 Speaker 2: Cunkle and his friend, the ones who said they had 616 00:34:45,325 --> 00:34:49,085 Speaker 2: dates who stood them up. Yes, Peter was cleared by police, 617 00:34:49,125 --> 00:34:50,965 Speaker 2: but as we know, he had a very good lawyer, 618 00:34:51,005 --> 00:34:55,525 Speaker 2: and sometimes mistakes are made. Lance said that while he 619 00:34:55,645 --> 00:34:58,165 Speaker 2: hopes to have answers one day in this case, he 620 00:34:58,165 --> 00:35:01,685 Speaker 2: would also really love to have Pauline's memory honored somewhere 621 00:35:01,685 --> 00:35:03,725 Speaker 2: in the University of Arkansas campus. 622 00:35:04,045 --> 00:35:07,605 Speaker 4: My long term goal this project, in anything that comes 623 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:12,845 Speaker 4: out of it, I would be completely happy if somehow 624 00:35:13,685 --> 00:35:18,085 Speaker 4: I could see some kind of plaque with her memory 625 00:35:18,725 --> 00:35:22,205 Speaker 4: telling the story, erected somewhere. 626 00:35:23,205 --> 00:35:26,885 Speaker 5: In the vicinity. That's my long term goal to see 627 00:35:26,885 --> 00:35:29,205 Speaker 5: if that happen. I think that would be the best 628 00:35:29,205 --> 00:35:32,645 Speaker 5: way to honor her memory, is to tell her story 629 00:35:33,245 --> 00:35:35,685 Speaker 5: for all to see whenever they come across it. If 630 00:35:35,725 --> 00:35:37,725 Speaker 5: the university would do it, I would love to have 631 00:35:37,805 --> 00:35:41,245 Speaker 5: it right there at the top of South Duncan, at 632 00:35:41,285 --> 00:35:44,845 Speaker 5: the edge of Dixon Street. This is what happened in 633 00:35:44,925 --> 00:35:47,725 Speaker 5: one of our students. 634 00:35:47,925 --> 00:35:50,725 Speaker 2: I'm hoping that someone out there remembers April twelfth, nineteen 635 00:35:50,765 --> 00:35:55,205 Speaker 2: seventy one, at that intersection near the University of Arkansas. 636 00:35:55,725 --> 00:35:59,485 Speaker 2: Someone who heard a scream or saw something heard someone 637 00:35:59,525 --> 00:36:02,525 Speaker 2: who was there talking about what happened that night, someone 638 00:36:02,605 --> 00:36:05,445 Speaker 2: who might have answers and who can help us go 639 00:36:05,645 --> 00:36:09,125 Speaker 2: closer to finding out what happened to Pauline Stormant. 640 00:36:09,605 --> 00:36:10,685 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend. 641 00:36:11,005 --> 00:36:15,485 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line 642 00:36:15,565 --> 00:36:18,205 Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 643 00:36:18,485 --> 00:36:21,565 Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 644 00:36:21,565 --> 00:36:24,725 Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her 645 00:36:24,765 --> 00:36:29,485 Speaker 2: research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale Executive Producers of 646 00:36:29,565 --> 00:36:33,525 Speaker 2: Virginia Prescott Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you have 647 00:36:33,605 --> 00:36:35,925 Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into, 648 00:36:36,085 --> 00:36:37,765 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 649 00:36:37,805 --> 00:36:38,285 Speaker 2: Murder Line. 650 00:36:38,285 --> 00:36:41,045 Speaker 1: It's six seven eight seven four four six one four 651 00:36:41,085 --> 00:36:44,685 Speaker 1: or five. That's six seven eight seven four four six 652 00:36:44,845 --> 00:36:58,365 Speaker 1: one four five. School of Humans