1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Hello everyone in podcast land. If you have ever wanted 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: to see us on stage telling jokes and slinging facts, 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: and you live out west, you can come see us 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon or Vancouver, Canada. Yep, We'll be at 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: the Chance Center in Vancouver on Sunday, March twenty nine, 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: and then we'll be at the Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: in Portland on March And if you want tickets and info, 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: then the best thing you can do right now is 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: to go do s y s K live dot com. 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of My 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w. Chuck Bryan over there, 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: there's Jerry over there again. Gosh, it feels good to 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: have you back. Chairs Cherysa's thanks and this is stuff 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: you should know. The smell of mi So is back. 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: I love the smell of me so in the morning. 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of mis lunches mm hmm, 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: actually just eating balls of mis no. I found a 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: I found a soup that's pretty good, like well, a 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: ramen and a miso that are a little because I 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: was thinking like man, I used to love those little 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: ramin's in college. It's like, I wonder if there's an 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: elevated version of that, and there is, Uh, I'll plug it. 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: Mike's mighty good ramen. It's a cup of soup, but 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: it's just a little bit better. It's made from better ingredients. 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: In Instead of twenty cents, it's like two dollars. Oh yeah, 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: it's still pretty affordable. But yeah, it's just super fast 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: and get some you know, low calories in your body 29 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: to stave off some food cravings. Stave off that cheeseburger craving, 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Yes, which can be substantial. 31 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: And you know what I'm also back on and this 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: is all just because of calorie crap. But beef turkey 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: is a nice little protein snack, not a ton of calories, 34 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: and squashes cravings. That one kid, um sorry, that one guy, 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: but he started it as a kid our listener who 36 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: makes beef jerky really top quality stuff. It was good, 37 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: but you know, I had my MOLDI beef jerky incident 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: years ago in l A. Oh that's right. This is 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: the first time I've had beef jerkey in fourteen years. 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: Because of that incident. Well you're back on the train, though, 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm glad. Well, not like a ton, but a couple 42 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: of times a week I'll snack on some beef jurney. 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: That is. That's a lot. That's a lot of jerky. Yes, 44 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: a couple of times a week is a lot. I 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: mean that's like right in my wheelhouse. But it's a lot. 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: And the whole bag of beef jerky once, okay, two ounces? Yeah, 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 1: do you weigh it out first? I do? Do you really? Yeah? 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: I was on the food weighing thing for a little 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: while and like you can get into it's kind of 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: like a game. I mean just that's the only way 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: to track accurately. Um. Yeah, good for you, man. Thanks, 52 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: you're feeling good whatever, You're like, I've lost my world 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: of blue now it's weighing beef jerkin. It's fine. Alright, Well, everybody, 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: obviously we're talking about Indigo to Die in the History 55 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: of It, which to me, did you know any of 56 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: this before we started? No, So this is kind of 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this sounds interesting, let's do one on 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: Indigo and dug In and struck Gold. You know, I 59 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: was I was perusing the old house stuff works dot 60 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: com website um, which you know, I know we have 61 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: almost cleaned that website dry over the years, but this 62 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: one popped up and I thought interesting because this is 63 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: one of those that is like, oh, indigo, Yeah, that's 64 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: a color, but it's also a pigment and it has 65 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: an interesting history and also slavery and race gets involved, 66 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: so no idea. Yeah, it has a lot of tendrils 67 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: that I found interesting. Yes, Supposedly, wherever indigo went, especially 68 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: after the age of the exploration and colonization, so too 69 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: went um slavery because it was it's a really intensive 70 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: process and crop um to produce indigo to die very 71 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: popular crop. Yeah, and it was also a worth a 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: lot of money, which was like, oh, well, we'll just 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: um kidnap people and make them work for free and 74 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: and that's how we'll produce indigo. And that's how it 75 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: went for hundreds of years apparently. Yeah, and we'll get 76 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: to this, but there are some people that say the 77 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: state of Georgia legalized slavery specifically so they could kind 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: of keep pace with indigo as a crop. And those 79 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: people who say that are historians, that's right. So okay, 80 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: I knew zero about indigo aside from the fact that 81 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: they used it to dye jeans and that was blue basically. Um. 82 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: And I just found this ultimately super fascinating. Yeah. I 83 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: mean this beginning though, I thought was even more fascinating 84 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: because I never really thought about the fact that if 85 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,559 Speaker 1: you look at any color up to a certain point 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: about the mid nineteenth century. Yeah, mid nineteenth century, was 87 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: any color you would see on a fabric or a 88 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: textile was there because a lot of plants and insects 89 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: We're squashed like it was an insect and plant blood 90 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: bath for eons in the world. Because if you wanted 91 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: something to be colored at all, then you had to 92 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: find a bug or a plant that you could grind 93 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: up into a powder basically or some other means, yeah, 94 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: or an animal, uh, like sea snails and animals, And 95 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: if you wanted purple for a very very long time, 96 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: you had to um, you had to get the mucous 97 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: gland out of a sea snail and and desiccated. And 98 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that didn't end well for the sea snail. No, 99 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: And I imagine that's a super labor intensive thing to do. 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: But who, Like I guess I could see like accidentally 101 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: smashing a sea snail and be like, oh, that's a 102 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: very pretty purple. I wonder if I can use it 103 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: to do stuff with the stuff that gets me those 104 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: when you get into like indigo itself. Yeah, because it's 105 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: the fact that you can get blue out of indigo 106 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: is not intuitive. No, because you look at the plant, 107 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: it's not blue. You squeeze the plant, not blue, eat 108 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: the plant, poop it out, not blue. There's nothing blue 109 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: about it. You have to you have to put it 110 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: through this chemical reaction that's multi step to to get 111 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: it to be blue. And I'm likely at a loss 112 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: how what what series of accidents had to happen so 113 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: that like somebody came up with indigo to die because 114 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: apparently it's one of the least least natural natural dyes 115 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah. And and also and for that reason, 116 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: one of the most sought after through antiquity, because you know, 117 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: if they wanted to make red stuff, it's pretty easy. 118 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you can you know, get 119 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: red out of it in nature or green obviously, but blue. 120 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 1: You know the old thing about there being no blue foods. 121 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: What old thing? Well, the old adage there are no 122 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: blue foods. Have you ever had arctic blue gum? Well? 123 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: I did look into this because this doesn't make a 124 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: little sense of why blue as a pigment would be 125 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: more sought after, and I think it ties into the 126 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: fact that it's just not naturally occurring. Really, Um, I 127 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: had never thought about that, but that. Yeah, now I'm 128 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: just gonna spend the rest of the episode racking my 129 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: brain for a blue food. Well, blue corn, blue potatoes, 130 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: blue blueberries are the things that most people would say, well, 131 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: what about that. I never would have thought of those, 132 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: But those are technically purple. Um that on the Food 133 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: Network a few years ago, and other people have done this. 134 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: They used to spectro uh photometer photometer two look at 135 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: the true colors of foods, and even those foods are 136 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: actually purple. They brought Sydney Opera and be like, yeah, 137 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: it's purple. I don't get it. She had that song 138 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: true Colors. Okay, I was thinking true blue. I was like, 139 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: that's my daughter. Did you just add an r Onto 140 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: the end of Madonna? Yeah, but that's a reservoir dogs reference. Um, 141 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: thank you for explaining it. I didn't have to see 142 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: like multiple emails two weeks from now with people being 143 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: like great reservoir dogs reference Chuck. So the blue food thing, 144 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: supposedly people think that blue light is one of the 145 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: high energy wavelengths on the on the light spectrum, on 146 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: the visible light spectrum, and that the guesses is to 147 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: grow more efficiently plants absorbed that light and use that energy. Well, yeah, 148 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: because the blue end is is higher energy. Yes, I'm 149 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: pretty sure. Yes, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, and 150 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: that was what we were talking about in the about 151 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the blue blood. Yes, but that's the opposite of that. 152 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: It absorbs more red, so it reflects more blue. Interesting, 153 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: so if it was blue, it would it would absorb 154 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: less blue light. I don't know, I know, it's kind 155 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: of like a mind sure, a brain teaser, right there 156 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: you go. But at any rate, there are very supposedly 157 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: no true blue foods, and that's probably ties into the 158 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: fact there are not a lot of plants that were 159 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: true blue. And as if you wanted something blue back then, uh, 160 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: you had to get it from woade, which is a 161 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: If you look at those, it's got yellow flowers again, 162 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: not blue. If there was ever a medieval English word, 163 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: I love it for that. It sounds like a little 164 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: uh a little short, hairy stubby, that little woe man 165 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: with big feet who wears like a tunic, that's a 166 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: woad or the more um are the prettier named Indigo fera, 167 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: which is a family of plants in India and South America, 168 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: both of those that has like a pinkish flower. But 169 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: both of those is where you used get indigo. Yeah, 170 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: And what's weird about this also is not only like 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: to neither of these plants look like they would produce 172 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: blue dye, but neither one of them are actually particularly 173 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: good at dyeing fabric. They both resist binding to fabric 174 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: or um dissolving in water. Hence the reason why you 175 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: don't just like squeeze wode or an intego ferra plant 176 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: um and get blue dye. You have to run it 177 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: through this process that starts with fermentation. Even yeah, and squeezing, 178 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 1: squeezing your wode sounds it sounds like something else. Yeah, 179 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: So we don't know for sure. We think they've been 180 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: making indigo from wode longer than from the Indigo ferra plant. 181 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: I think now we we can't say the word woude 182 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: anymore for the rest of the episode. I think you're right, 183 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: but it's you know, we can't really tell sometimes whether 184 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: it was woade or the indigo ferra. That they do 185 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: think because Egypt and Mesopotamia are close to Turkey and 186 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: they had a lot of blue uh and in Turkey 187 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: they had more woad than indigo ferra, So they think 188 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: that was probably the first one. Yeah. So the upshot 189 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: of all that is that they can trace blue die 190 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: back to the third millennium b c. Five thousand years 191 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: ago or up to five thousand years ago, but they 192 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: can't say whether it came from wood or indigo ferre right, right, 193 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: But they did find indigo ferra in the Bronze Age 194 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: in the Indus Valley civilization. And this was fascinating to 195 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: me just because the um the horror Pon. I guess 196 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: it's one of the same, the Indus Valley civilization and 197 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: the that that what you just said, Yes, they're they're 198 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: the same thing, right, Yes, they're the Harpon civilization that 199 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: was one of maybe the largest ever ancient civilization. And 200 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: I'm just fascinating anytime we talk about these civilizations back then, 201 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: add like as many as five million people, It's just 202 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: blows my mind. They also had indoor plumbing, underground sewage 203 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: like they had it going on. They apparently had a 204 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: better standard of living um than contemporary Egyptians at the 205 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: same time. And everybody thinks that the Egyptians having it 206 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: going on too. Yeah please, yeah, I guess not compared 207 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: to the Indus Valley civilization. So um, there is lots 208 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: of examples of this stuff. Um. Yeah, Indigo fera or 209 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: wode they kind of competed for a very long time, 210 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: and Europe kind of went the Woade way because wade 211 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: grows in um in Europe much more easily related to 212 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: the cabbage family. They took the load less traveled. That 213 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: was good, um, and then that was really good. And 214 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: then indigo fera grows better in like Pakistan, India that 215 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: that area the Indus Valley um, and so that that 216 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: was kind of like the split in blue dye. The 217 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: thing is, there seems to have always been this understanding 218 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: that indigo fair is just vastly superior to woade indigo um. 219 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: And so even in Europe, like you would find woade 220 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: like the Greeks, the Romans, and then up to medieval Europeans, 221 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: if they could get their hands on indigo ferra, indigo 222 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: that um. They would pay through the nose for that stuff. 223 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: Um and rightly. So, I mean like it was really 224 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: expensive because it's hard to produce, as we'll see um. 225 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: But also at the time you had to travel over 226 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: land carrying the stuff, and so each trader that went 227 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: along these trade rush just added more and more money 228 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: on too. So by the time it reached a western Europe, 229 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: you were paying a lot for this blue dive. One 230 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: million dollars. They would be like that that number doesn't 231 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: even exist yet. So the Greeks they called and this 232 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: is going down a bit of a a word origin 233 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But the Greeks called the blue pigment indecon 234 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: with a K because it was from India and they 235 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: wanted it to sound sinister because things were the K 236 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: that became indigo in English. And then there's the word 237 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: for die in ancient lands uh in i l i 238 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: neely that was Sanskrit meaning dark blue, and then that 239 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: became a n i l in Spanish, and eventually that 240 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: became indigo in Central and South America. And apparently, yeah, 241 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: blue in Arabic is al neil right, in English, uh 242 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: annualine is derived from that, and that is synthetic die class. 243 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: So it's all tied together. We got to climb right 244 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: out of this hole. Yes, that was a big one. So, um, 245 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: where are we in the ancient world? Well, I think 246 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: we're in Marco Polo? Okay, good so and twelve the 247 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: late twelve hundreds, the late thirteenth century, Marco Polo made 248 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: his way to China and was like, hey, get this. 249 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: We had to say something. This is me talking, not 250 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: Marco Polo, but um, they had, like the Romans, the Greeks, 251 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: the Europeans had no idea that indigo came from a plant, 252 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: because by the time I got to them, it was 253 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: like these little hard um bits of die and you 254 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: would mix with water at about solution and there you 255 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: had your die. All of a sudden, um, But they 256 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: thought it was a mineral. Marco Polo went to China, 257 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: saw some of this stuff firsthand. I was like, hey, 258 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: this comes from a plant. Did you guys know that? 259 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: And by the way, I got a bunch of my 260 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: boat if you want to buy something, And all of 261 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: a sudden there was trade now with with China. Yeah, 262 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: and that went. It was still pretty expensive because there 263 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: was no direct sea route to China. Until Vasco da 264 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: Gama came along and said watch this, Yeah, I'll sail 265 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: to China in like two seconds. Everyone was very impressed. 266 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: And this kind of cut out the middleman in all 267 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: those hands. Like you were saying, raising the prices along 268 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: the way, you cut out a lot of those and 269 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: you've got more supply. And even back then that those 270 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: economics meant cheaper prices would follow, right, isn't Fosco da 271 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: Gama George Costanza's favorite explorer? I can't remember. I was 272 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: just wondering that. I want to say it is, but 273 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: I thought it was Cortez. Now no, no, no, everybody 274 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: hates Cortez. Who was Jerry's I don't remember which one. 275 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: I think one of them was impressed about going around 276 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: the Horn of Africa majelling. Maybe I'll have to look 277 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: that all. What's the door Steinfeld research on that for you? 278 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: So the cost of Indigo dropped a lot because of 279 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: the da Gama but but not like rock bottom luxury, 280 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: like the point zero one percent could afforded to you know, 281 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: could afford kind of something like that. Yeah, But what 282 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: that meant was is Woade was in big double because 283 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: Indigo from the Indigo ferra was the blue gold, said, 284 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: what is me? All right, let's take a break and 285 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: we'll talk about the synthesization synthetization. Good God, am I 286 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: dreaming right now? I think? So? Good night? Okay. So 287 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: you said that they call it blue gold, right, or 288 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: they did back in the age of Vasco da Gama. 289 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: That's right because it was worth a lot of money. 290 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: It lasted along and had a good shelf life, and 291 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, huge. It was pretty compact as 292 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: far as storing and traveling, super compact. So um, if 293 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: you'll indulge me, like I found a little bit about 294 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: how that stuff that they used to to travel with 295 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: was made. Yeah, and it's still if it's going to 296 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: be made naturally, which it really isn't. This is how 297 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: they would still do it, right. Someone figured this out 298 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: thousands of years ago and still today from what we understand, 299 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: the process is virtually the same. So the whole thing 300 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: starts with a whole bunch of indigo ferra um plant um, 301 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: and you throw it into a pot and you start 302 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: to ferment it. Step one. Somebody figured out how to 303 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: ferment or that you need to ferment indigo. I bet 304 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: someone drank it at some point, yes, and they're like, 305 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: chuck out my teeth. Have you ever seen teeth like these? 306 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: So here's the thing, the reason why you can't just 307 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: squeeze an indigo ferra plant and get indigo outs because 308 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: there's no indigo in the plant. It doesn't exist naturally. 309 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: But there's a precursor to it called indi can um, 310 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: and that is what you ferment out of the um 311 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: leaves with an enzyme which kind of breaks it down, 312 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, um you have something called 313 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: endoxyl and glucose. That's right, so you're splitting it. This 314 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: endoxyl is what you're actually after. And then after that 315 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: you drain the liquid um and into a second tank 316 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: you add the endoxyl um with air. You stir it basically, 317 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it oxidizes into intogotten and 318 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: then the into gotten is actually what um apparently is indigo. 319 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: Because there's no other steps after that except to let 320 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: it air dry. It like settles at the bottom and 321 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: then they can get rid of the uh, the matter 322 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: on top. Yeah, they filter it out and you're left 323 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: with kind of a sludgy paste, I think, right, Yeah, 324 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: And then if you dry that paste in the sun, 325 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: which I think is the traditional customary way supposedly, that 326 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: converts it into basically like blocky, solid indigo die. Okay, 327 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: so it's not a powder, it says cakes. And then 328 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: the fact that the but I've seen it as a powder, 329 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: so I know what you're talking about. But I think 330 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: the fact that the Romans and Greeks thought it was 331 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: a mineral because it must be hard. But surely, I mean, 332 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: it's got a breakdown somehow. But what's weird about all 333 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: this is if you take that that indigo die and 334 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you say, like, soak some denomen in it, it's not 335 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: just going to come out blue, certainly, not after one. 336 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: If you're using natural indigo die, you have to, um 337 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: I've seen up to forty times. You have to wash 338 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: it in this indigo to get it to start to bind. 339 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: Because one of the things about indigo is it doesn't 340 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: like to bind with fibers. And then even when it does, 341 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: it's very superficial. So like if you took your genes 342 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: right now, cut it open, you looked at the cross section, 343 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: you'd see white inside. It's just the superficial top of 344 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: the fiber of your genes that have been die blue 345 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: inside the indigo hasn't actually kind of traded, and I 346 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: would be wearing some sweet daisy dukes you would with 347 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: like the pockets sticking out of the bottom. No, I 348 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: never went that short. I would cut off Geane phase, 349 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: but never the Georgs. It was always had the frayed bottoms, 350 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: kind of country style, nothing nothing hemmed. Oh yeah, yeah, 351 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: I never never owned appear No, no, no, I know 352 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: what you're talking about. George didn't either. Actually it's not true, 353 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: but mine was at a time where they were acceptable. Yes, okay, yeah, 354 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: I buy that. I don't. It's not like I was like, oh, 355 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: I'm not going to wear those because theydn't even call 356 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: them George back then. I think I just didn't have them. 357 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: What you're describing is not what I have. Mine were 358 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: bag here, but they had like a hem like the 359 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: bottom of jeans did but they weren't at all the 360 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: tebow George. Yes, yes, I didn't look anything like that here. 361 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I need to see what that looks like. Just imagine 362 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: like nineties Geene shorts. Okay, there you go, you got it. 363 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: Sort of we'll just leave it there, all right, Okay, Uh, 364 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: we don't know. Let's just smoove on. So Chuck just 365 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: put his glasses on. Everybody. That's right, because I'm reading. 366 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: My eyes have gotten so bad. Mine have to Chuck. 367 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: I can't, like, I can't read anything now unless I 368 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: have them. I have to go like this, and it 369 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: makes it really hard to underline and highlight when you 370 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: hold like Josh's holding a page very far from his 371 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: face and then close and then it's really sad. So, uh, 372 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: I guess we should get into the dark side of 373 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: And I think this was one of the parts from 374 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: the house Stuff Works article they said some of that. 375 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: I had some NPR in there, and I think a 376 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: fashion website even chimed in. That's a heck of a 377 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: So when Europeans kind of like colonized North America colonialized, 378 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: they started obviously they needed to grow crops and sell 379 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: them for any That was a big deal was farming. 380 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: So they were like, what should we grow, Like we've 381 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: never been here before. Yeah, that's like you don't think 382 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: about that, but that's exactly kind of what they went through. 383 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: And they tried a bunch of different stuff, and they 384 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: did grow a bunch of different stuff, but indigo was 385 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: something that they tried to grow a lot of early on. 386 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: They grew yeah, in Jamestown, New Amsterdam, I think in Louisiana. 387 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: The French did it an okay job of it. But 388 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: it was a woman named Eliza Lucas in the seventeen 389 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: thirties and uh, more appropriately Eliza Lucas's slaves that figured 390 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: this out. Yeah, so she was she gets the credit. 391 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: She was a pretty interesting person herself that she was 392 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: sixteen and her father, boy, but my voice just transitioned 393 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: really weirdly. And her father um owned uh like at 394 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: least three plantations in around Charleston, South Carolina. Yeah, again 395 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: a British colony at the time, and he said, hey, Eliza, 396 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: you're interested in botany, why don't you go take over 397 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: these three plantations and see what will grow there. And 398 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: he sent her some seeds and she started growing stuff 399 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: and she found the indigo grew really really well in 400 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: the lowlands of South Carolina. Yeah, she grew ginger cotton, hemp, alfalfa, 401 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: and the aforementioned indigo. Eventually, for her efforts, she was 402 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: inducted into as the first woman into the South Carolina 403 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: Business Hall of Fame. Again she's sixteen years old at 404 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: the time. Sure she got married to a man named 405 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: Charles Pinkney. Um, you know, because she was an old 406 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: maid of sixteen and not married yet getting up and 407 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: they because, um, and you know, of course she'll get 408 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the credit now is being shared. 409 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: But for many years she was like Eliza Lucas, the 410 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: woman who figured out how to grow indigo. Whereas the 411 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: true story is is Eliza Lucas um had slaves on 412 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: her plantation from Africa that knew how to grow indigo. 413 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: She's like, how do you do this? And they helped 414 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: her out. Uh they Um. To their credit, they did 415 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: share this, the plants, the seeds, the knowledge to all 416 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: kinds of other farmers. And they are kind of looked 417 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: at as being responsible for the indigo boom in the south, right, 418 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: So then you could extrapolate pretty easily that they were 419 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: also responsible for the introduction of slavery into the southern 420 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: cultures because the indigo started growing so well, and this 421 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: indigo boom happened. And remember this is still like a 422 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: luxury item and in high demand. Everybody wanted everything blue, blue, 423 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: blue blue, Give me some blue clothes right now? That 424 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: was kind of the the age in the middle of 425 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century. UM. And because this crop started growing 426 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: so well in the south, and because it was so lucrative, 427 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: they think that Georgia said, oh, you know, Charleston is 428 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: doing really well with this indigo. We could be doing 429 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: well too, if only we would overturn our ban on slavery. 430 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: Had no idea that Georgia initially had a ban on slavery, 431 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: did you. I did not, uh, and said We're going 432 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: to start allowing slaves uh to be held in Georgia 433 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: and the Georgia colony so that we can grow indigo. 434 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. In seventeen fifty one 435 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: is when the band in Georgia ended and the revolutionary 436 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: Revolutionary I keep saying that revolutionary because it was truly revolutionary. 437 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: The Revolutionary War came along. Um. By that point there 438 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: were eighteen thousand slaves in Georgia and Uh. The war, though, 439 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: kind of put a dent in the indigo market. Yeahs um. 440 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: So the biggest um consumer base of indigo for the 441 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: colonies was Britain, and Britain said, you don't wanna be 442 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: our colonies anymore. You want to be independent, go find 443 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: some other customers. And Britain said, we're gonna go take 444 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: over India and get our indigo there, right, except they 445 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: said it British, all British, British eight barby gun. That's 446 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: pretty good. I don't know if that's pretty good, governor 447 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: accurate at all. Uh. And this tie to slavery and 448 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: indigo was basically around until the early twenty century when 449 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: um synthetic indigo came along. Yeah. So if Eliza Lucas 450 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: Pickney kicked off the slavery boom um in the Southern colonies, 451 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: you can make a really good case that Alfred Vombayer, 452 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: a German chemist, freed a lot of slaves when he 453 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: found a synthetic um alternative to indigo. Yeah, and he 454 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: followed a boy, truly a boy, a teenage chemist named 455 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: William Perkins. That's up with all these teenagers don't doing stuff? Well, 456 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: they died when they were seven. Um, we both know 457 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: that's not true. Don't bother emailing everybody. Seven Club. Great 458 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: new show on our network from Yeah from Disgrace Lands, 459 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: Jake Brennan, Catch it Sundays on my Heart. It is 460 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: a good show though. Yeah, it's about the twenty seven Club, 461 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: the musicians who die at the age of seven. Yeah, 462 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I think that's on our list of 463 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: to do episodes, although now it's done. So yeah, why 464 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: are we gonna rip jakeof I don't know, he'll come 465 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: after us, I know. So. Uh. Brittish chemist, teenage wonder 466 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: kid William Perkins, he was the first. Uh. He was 467 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: the creator of the first synthetic die, which came about 468 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: as a lot of things doing science by accident when 469 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: they're trying to do something else, in this case a 470 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: cure for malaria, right, which is teenage kid was doing 471 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: trying to find a cure for malaria. Pretty cool, and 472 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: he came up with something called Marvin, which produces a 473 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: bright purple and so this was the first synthetic die. 474 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Remember up to this moment when William Perkins came along, 475 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: everything that had ever been dyed in the history of 476 00:28:52,920 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: humanity had been died using naturally sourced labor, intensive weirdo 477 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: processed um dies. And all of a sudden he's like, hey, 478 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: this is way easier. It's way more controlled. And because 479 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: it's controlled, you can put it into like mass production 480 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: pretty easily. Just changed everything. Yeah, and we don't have 481 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: to harvest billions of insects and grind them up into 482 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: powder or poor sea snails. Yeah. Um and so again. 483 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: A few years later, a couple of decades later. Uh, 484 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: funny enough, Alfred von bayer Um said I'm going to 485 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: start working on one for indigo. Oh yeah, eightolf in Uh. 486 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty five he declared that that's what he 487 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: was working on. In seven he figured it out. Yeah, 488 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: not bad years. Ah, well, what's funny? He got the 489 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize actually for chemistry for his work on organic dies, 490 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: but also he discovered, um, barbiturous, didn't even mention it 491 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: in the Nobel Prize barbituous or synthetic dies. We'll give 492 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: it to them for synthetic dies. Wow. Yeah, chemistry, Well 493 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: it's still interesting. But back then it was just like, 494 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: I can make heavy duty drugs, might make synthetic dies, 495 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: and they'll inject them both and see what happened. Um, 496 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: when that launched in the natural production of indigo, was 497 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: it about nineteen thousand tons? I guess annually it doesn't 498 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: say those look like metric tons. If you ask me, 499 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: there's an extra and and a knee. Yeah, Let's say 500 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: it's annually and this was you mainly coming from India. 501 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: About fifteen years later, after the invention of the synthetic die, 502 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: that natural number had gone from nineteen thousand townies to 503 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: one thousand tonies. It's a pretty precipitous drop. Pretty it 504 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: hit a It hit the natural indigo market pretty hard, 505 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: and it had nothing to do with the demand for indigo. 506 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: It was just the synthetic indigo stepped in and just 507 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: took over very very quickly. That's right, um, And so 508 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: now it's like just a complete niche market to be 509 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: like this is actually naturally dyed with natural indigo kind 510 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: of garments. You just don't find those. Instead, almost entirely 511 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: everything is made with synthetic dyes. Let's take our second 512 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back and talk about how 513 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: that's just ruining everything too, because there's nothing good about 514 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: indigo apparently, correct, Charles. You're wearing jeans right now, are you? 515 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: Unfortunately I am as well. That's all you wear. How 516 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: many pair of jeans you got two? I have two 517 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: as well. One jean jacket show off you throw on 518 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: like a little jeane vest. You got a Canadian tuxedo 519 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: going yeah, I I but Emily made fun of me 520 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: for buying a jean jacket and that's like, I think 521 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: jean jackets are kind of in your Like Brennan thinks 522 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: it's cool. I bet he can rock a jean jacket 523 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: that hair, Yeah, for sure. Uh And I said, now 524 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: these are in now, and she's like, I don't know, 525 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: and I was like, no, they totally are. Like I'm 526 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: going to make it my business that they're in now. 527 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: They're in. You just don't don't wear them with gene bottoms. 528 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: What are you wearing with? Uh? Well, according to the 529 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: websites I looked up to prove Emily wrong, you wear 530 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: them with like khakis. You wear it with a corresponding 531 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: or a pant that doesn't jack doesn't sound right. Yeah, 532 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: khakis are like you know, I have my like maroon khakis. 533 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: You can wear it with that any anything that's not 534 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: blue jeans, basically, because again, you look like you're edging 535 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: really close to Canadian tuxedo. Yeah, but you know I've 536 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: seen people pull it off. Will Ferrell he worked Innadian tuxedo. 537 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: He's hilarious. He got up there, do you see that 538 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: jean getting blue jeans? But he offset it. Yeah, I 539 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: was like, because he did that whole Neil Diamond thing. Remember, no, oh, 540 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: one of his greatest characters from Sorrence Live is Neil 541 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: Diamond and you sorry, I mean Robert Goulay. Do you know? Okay, 542 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: this Neil Diamond makes his Robert Goulay look like like 543 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: dog poop. Really, it's yes. I don't think I ever 544 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: saw there was he did it multiple times, but there 545 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: was one where he did. A VH one storyteller is 546 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: Neil Diamond and like Neil Diamonds just off the rails 547 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: on like on pills and like he's got stitches for 548 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: some reason, they come loose and just beautiful. He's like 549 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: a bigoted racist who's singing about he can't really stand 550 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: as keyboard player because he's black, and his keyboard players like, 551 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: what are you talking? Yeah? It is Tim Meadows. So 552 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: I I I demand that everybody pressed Paul and go 553 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: watch the Neil Diamond Forever or no vh win storytellers 554 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: will Ferrell and we'll wait. I will check that out 555 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay, So where the heck are we now? 556 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: Is the environmental nightmare that is modern text, not just 557 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: blue jeans but textile dying period. Uh. There's a documentary 558 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: called River Blue that I have not seen yet. Sounds lovely, 559 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: but it details the chemical manufacturing process for denim specifically 560 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: where like you go to China and there are rivers 561 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: that are running blue um, which is not good for 562 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: many reasons. No, some of the reasons are that the 563 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: die itself makes the river blue, which blocks out sunlight. 564 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: So plants die everything. Yeah, when they when they disintegrate, 565 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: they are broken down by bacteria which stuck up all 566 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: the oxygen, which kills the fish. It's just a horrible 567 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: chain reaction. Um. Again, remember even with synthetic indigo, but 568 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: with natural as well. Even with synthetic indigo, that the 569 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: dye doesn't want to stick to the stuff. So you 570 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: have to use something called the mordant, which is a 571 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: bleaching agent that actually that will bind the indigo die 572 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: to the garment. Oh, I thought the mordant was because 573 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: the initial color that it gets is not the blue 574 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: that you want, so you have to keep bleaching it. 575 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: That's not my understanding, you know. I think it's the 576 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 1: thing that binds that says, hey, indigo, come on over 577 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: here and let's hang out with this this denim and 578 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: we'll stain it blue. Well, the wastewater the leftover mordants 579 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: are terrible or either acidic or their chromium or some 580 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: other kind of horrible metal that kills fish and poisons 581 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: the supply. Yeah, you know they spell it differently, which 582 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: is why they pronounce it differently. No, I looked it up. 583 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: How's it spelled exactly as it's pronounced. But we spell 584 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: it aluminum in the US and in Canada. Apparently the 585 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: rest of the English king world spells it alumni. Yum, 586 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: there's that extra syllable spelled out. Oh they say aluminium. Yeah, okay, 587 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I thought it was just aluminium, right, 588 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: but they're they're really saying aluminium, but they're just they're British, 589 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: so that would be an extra I after the end. 590 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: Aluminum aluminium, Yes, exactly, all right, But in't that fascinating 591 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: we spell it differently. Yeah, that's weird, But anyway, you 592 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: don't want that stuff in your water supply. And it 593 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: comes about in aces from the four billion pairs of 594 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: genes that are died every year in the world. Yeah, 595 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: jeans and geen jackets and gene hats all Canadian tuxedos. 596 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: That's right, But they are trying to work on this. UM. 597 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: There's a more environmentally friendly way they're there trying to 598 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: formulate UM. I did not understand this at all, So 599 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it's magic through chemistry. I have 600 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: a feeling you're gonna want to explain it. Well, So 601 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: it's here's the thing. Do you remember, Like endoxyl is 602 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: what you're after when you're when you're extracting and fermenting 603 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: indigo or indigo ferra plants in indigo. So that indoxyl 604 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: it's super unstable, so it likes to buy into something. 605 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: It becomes something else. We can't use that something else. 606 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: You need the endoxyle. What they figured out is too 607 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: they genetically altered an E. Coli, a strain of E. Coli, 608 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: and it secretes that that precursor to endoxyl, or they 609 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: can make it secrete it right right, Yeah, they like 610 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: genetically engineered to do so UM that that precursor to endoxyl. 611 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: When you put it together UM with some other natural enzyme, 612 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: it separates that precursor into endoxyl and glucose, and then 613 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you've got endoxyl. And what's neat 614 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: is they found that with this particular type of endoxyl, 615 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: when you expose it to air, it automatically turns into indigo. Well, 616 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: it turns into uh luke luco indigo, which is the 617 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: white indigo, which apparently is what you actually want to 618 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: make things blue. That's right, it's really confusing it. You 619 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: just lost me with that one. That's the deal. But 620 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: they're they're they're saying, like, we've got this thing. It's like, 621 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: this system actually works. We've engineered this bacteria to produce 622 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: basically the precursor to indigo, and then you scale it. 623 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: That's always the problem, exactly. It's exactly because big Denim 624 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: is gonna say, great, show me the numbers. Tommy Hill 625 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: figure is going to be like, I can't make any 626 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: money off this, and and so will an tom antoine 627 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: bugle boy. Well, they won't have anything to do with 628 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: it unless it's cost efficient. Oh that's good. Uh. And 629 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,959 Speaker 1: the good thing about this is is it it uh 630 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: solves a couple of problems. Um, the chemical synthesis of 631 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: indigo is just bad. And then you also don't need 632 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: that mortan bleaching stage either, and all of this stuff 633 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: is running off into the rivers in China and other places. 634 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: But if you don't have that, and you just have 635 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: this nice little bacteria producing it on a massive scale, 636 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: then the denim producers will say we're on board and 637 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: the world will be saved. It's just could there be 638 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: anything more wrong with the world? I know, because you 639 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: start to think about like someone like someone who's vegan, 640 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: it's like really walking the walk and trying to do 641 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: the right thing, and like, I don't wear leather, no belts, 642 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,479 Speaker 1: no shoes, all of this stuff. They say, maybe while 643 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: wearing their jeans or maybe not. Maybe they're like, oh, 644 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: and I don't. I won't wear denim either. But I 645 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: think it's all dependent on what you have researched. You 646 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: could probably research everything on your body and find some 647 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: awful practice along the way. Unless you're just sitting on 648 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: your commune making your clothes and weaving your loom and 649 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: you're just wearing like Tan Lennon's no colors, no dies. 650 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: You're like, because you're not gonna smash up a beetle 651 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: to get green. No, because that's not environmentally friendly either. 652 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: Beetles got a right to live. Yeah, beatles got a beetle. 653 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: You got anything else? No, it's just sad. You're right, 654 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: and I was hoping to end it on the upbeat thing, 655 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: but not this one. Yeah. You you follow the chain 656 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: of almost anything used today, and it's got some terrible thing. 657 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: I've got. I've got it. But that doesn't mean you 658 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: should give up. No, no, because anyway, any choice you 659 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 1: make that helps something continue to live did not be polluted. 660 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: It's still helping. Now you're still screwing up this other 661 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: way you don't mean to, but the other stuff that 662 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: you are doing that is helping is still helping. It 663 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: still saving a life, it's still promoting some healthier ecosystem somewhere, 664 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: and it's still worthwhile. I'm a big subscriber to this. 665 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to be all or nothing. 666 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: Some people are that's great, But every little bit of 667 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: good you can do is still doing good because I've 668 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: been taking the task personally over the years from listeners saying, 669 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: how can you be an advocate for dogs and eat meat? Oh? Yeah, 670 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: they love that one, And I'm like, you know, I'm 671 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: still helping dogs. You know, I just really love two 672 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: ounces of perfectly proportioned beef jerky was and maybe I 673 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: should be vegan. But to call me out on saying, 674 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: you know, you're a hypocrite because you're helping dogs, like, no, 675 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: helping dogs is good, period, full stop. Agreed, And they're like, 676 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 1: you know, strangling turtles with a plastic bag while they're 677 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,439 Speaker 1: saying this too, because I guarantee if you drilled in chuck, 678 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: you could find something too. Yeah. Yeah, but that's not 679 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: a fruitful road to go down. No it's not chuck, No, 680 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: it's not agreed. Uh. Well, if you want to know 681 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: more about being a better person, go back and listen 682 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: to our catalog. How about that? Yeah? All of them? Um, 683 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,479 Speaker 1: And since I said that, it's time for listener mail, 684 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 1: what is this? Oh? This is kind of a fun one. 685 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: It's a correction for you, but it's a lighthearted and 686 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,439 Speaker 1: fun one. Hey, you guys, A long time listener, huge 687 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: advocate for all you do. I live in southern Maine 688 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: and frequently make the long drives to Vermont. In your 689 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: podcast helps me make that more tolerable. But I got 690 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: a bone to pick with Josh. Whenever the state of 691 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: Maine comes up, you guys always slide in a comment 692 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: about our state's weird and independent nature. Rightly so. But 693 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: I've now counted two times at least where Josh is 694 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: misidentified Maine as the slogan live for or Die uh, 695 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,439 Speaker 1: the first time in the rank choice voting and then 696 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: more recently in AI facial recognition. I let it go then, 697 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: but I have to say something now, Live for you 698 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: or Die is famously New Hampshire state motto Josh, not Maine. 699 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: It's even on their license plate. Main state motto is uh, 700 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: dear a dear Ago dear a Joe Latin for eye lead. 701 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: I have no idea d I R I G O. 702 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: That suits us quite well as our state leads as 703 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: the first in the nation to use rank choice voting, 704 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: having the most breweries per capita, and being the state 705 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: in which the most Stephen King books take place. Again, 706 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: I love the show. Always chuckle when you call us 707 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: Maynard's weirdos. I hope you enjoyed your time in Portland 708 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: during your live episode last Wall. Now, if you excuse me, 709 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: I have to go ride my moose to the ocean 710 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: so I can catch lobsters by my lighthouse. And that 711 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: is from John Q Neo. Speaking of lighthouses, we both agreed. 712 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 1: The Lighthouse was an amazing movie. I know you just 713 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: randomly texted me, it's just so good that have you 714 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: seen The Lighthouse. I was moved to Robert Agars, just 715 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: please keep making movies. He's great, and I was. I 716 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: wish it hadn't gotten shut out of the Academy Awards. 717 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: I thought, why would it have been because it was 718 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: black and white, because it was weird, It was almost 719 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: an experimental film. But the fact that either or both 720 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: of them did not get nominated for Best Actor is 721 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: just ridiculous, pretty ridiculous because they were both amazing and 722 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: production design everything. Have you ever seen a more like 723 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: authentic looking film that's absolutely true Edgar's Robert Pattinson came 724 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: out and was like, we basically lived like you know, 725 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: it was whatever year it was. He was like, it 726 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 1: was awful. It's like all the stuff you see is 727 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: doing is the wheelbarrow scene that just looks miserable because 728 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, everybody, if you don't know we're talking about, 729 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: just go look up the Lighthouse and it was so 730 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: good and watch it and just watch it all the 731 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: way through. Okay, and then after that I really like this, 732 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: then go watch the Witch, which is Robert Eger's first movie. 733 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 1: That's right, his first movie was The Witch, one of 734 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 1: the greatest films ever made. In Pattinson is just one 735 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: of my favorite actors. He's so great. Have you seen 736 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: Good Time? Oh? Yeah, man, I couldn't believe how good 737 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: that was. Amazing. Okay, John wrote that that listener mailan 738 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: right hold on, I think it was John, Yes, John, Cuneo. John, 739 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: I can tell you that definitely in the facial recognition episode, 740 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: I was being I was trolling. I know for a 741 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,479 Speaker 1: fact that it's New Hampshire's slogan, and if I know Josh, John, 742 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 1: you're going to hear that again. Yeah. I would also 743 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: guess that when I said it before in whatever other 744 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: episode I said it any Yeah, I don't remember that. 745 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: That was probably me trolling too, But if I was mistaken, 746 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: I apologize live for or die everyone. If you want 747 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, like John did, you 748 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: can go into Stuff you Should Know dot com, or 749 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: you can just send us an email to stuff podcast 750 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is 751 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more 752 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 753 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.