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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.

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Speaker 2: Listening past, you can't predict.

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Speaker 1: Anything brought to you by first Light. When I'm hunting,

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Speaker 1: I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds, no compromise,

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Speaker 1: gear that keeps me in the field longer, no shortcuts,

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Speaker 1: just gear that works. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. That's f I R S T L I

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Speaker 1: t E dot com. Join today by Doug Roller, who

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Speaker 1: was the chief trainer for l A p D Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Police Departments K nine Unit.

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Speaker 2: Doug's been his career working with.

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Speaker 1: This is a big important point, apprehension dogs meaning dogs

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Speaker 1: that catch people. So in the dog world you got

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Speaker 1: detection dogs, guns, drugs whatever. You got tracking dogs which

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Speaker 1: could be used as like rescue dogs to track people

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Speaker 1: lost out in the woods. But his career is in

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Speaker 1: using dogs to appre hend folks. He was a handler

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Speaker 1: for seven years, then spent seventeen years as the head

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Speaker 1: trainer working with apprehension dogs. I met Doug a couple

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Speaker 1: months ago. YEP I was at I was with a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, Shane Yeats has been on the show before.

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Speaker 1: I was hanging out in a setting very similar to

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Speaker 1: this on a couple of couches in a living room,

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Speaker 1: and Doug was kind of blowing my mind with this

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Speaker 1: whole world of dog use in dog training that I

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Speaker 1: was unfamiliar with. So we're gonna kind of recreate that

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Speaker 1: conversation about just an intricate, very detailed, in depth use

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Speaker 1: of dogs. It kind of that kind of blows your

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Speaker 1: mind before we get into the police work, which is fascinating, man,

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Speaker 1: in the and the dot and the training and all that.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about your background a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I didn't we didn't talk about this when I met you, right,

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Speaker 1: but but Krinn was telling me that that you got

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Speaker 1: one of your initial introductions dog to work in with.

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Speaker 1: Sorry that one of your introductions not even to dogs.

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Speaker 1: What am I saying? You were in the falconry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Train, I guess in training or whatever. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's come up before when I've talked to people, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, they'll say, like, you know what drew you?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, you're raised and uh, I

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Speaker 3: was raised in a family that was very loved animals

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Speaker 3: and the outdoors and all that. There's a lot of camping,

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Speaker 3: and I don't even know how it happened, but I

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Speaker 3: I guess I had parents also that you know, did

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Speaker 3: the right thing and allowed me to go directions that

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Speaker 3: they saw, but that maybe was not instinctual, but I

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Speaker 3: gravitated toward that. And I remember getting my first falcon.

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Speaker 3: It was a little tiny falconet that I bought at

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Speaker 3: the pet shop. They bought for me. It's a little

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Speaker 3: from India's smallest falcon in the world, and I had

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Speaker 3: it. It was like a pet, and it ended up dying

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Speaker 3: on me because I didn't take care of it properly.

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Speaker 3: But then I started reading. I got into all the books,

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Speaker 3: and I was very young at the time. And then

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Speaker 3: I got into birds of prey and trapping them and

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Speaker 3: catching them and got my falcon's license in California. Oh,

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Speaker 3: and I was a very young age. I was probably

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Speaker 3: about thirteen. I couldn't even drive yet. But because I

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Speaker 3: got so much into it, I was on the verge

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Speaker 3: of getting my master falcon's license at a really young age.

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Speaker 3: And then the fishing game got a hold of me.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how that occurred. I think he just

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Speaker 3: came over to approve my meuse and my equipment, and

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Speaker 3: he said, hey, we need to rehab rehab birds once

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Speaker 3: in a while that were injured or mistreated whatever, birds

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Speaker 3: of prey. Would you be interested And of course I'm

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Speaker 3: my kid, Oh yeah, that'd be great. So they started

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Speaker 3: bringing me birds to rehab, you know, like Cooper redtails,

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Speaker 3: you know, sometimes a prairie falcon in that area, so

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Speaker 3: that that actually fuel that. But then I got very

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Speaker 3: much intoto. I joined the Falconer's Club and I got

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Speaker 3: really into falconry. And then some of my buddies in

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Speaker 3: high school we all got into it. And I got

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Speaker 3: guys right now that I kind of lost touch with,

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Speaker 3: but they're really into it. I mean, I left it

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Speaker 3: because I my life went to another direction, you know,

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Speaker 3: I got to police work, got under the dog thing.

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Speaker 1: But you were you were tuned up on trained up

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Speaker 1: and kind of like mentally trained up on working with

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Speaker 1: animal and I.

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Speaker 3: And not only that, it was like being able to

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Speaker 3: utilize an animal in the in the natural environment and

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Speaker 3: hunt prey. There's something really neat about that, Like there's

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Speaker 3: certain there are certain birds you you go hunting with.

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Speaker 3: You hunt from the fist, you know, you you like

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Speaker 3: a gossawk, you're gonna you're gonna look for jack rabbits

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Speaker 3: or bunnies or whatever, and you got to have the

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Speaker 3: dog approperly trained. They came out of the bird approperly

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Speaker 3: trained for that. But then you also have the fat falcons,

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Speaker 3: which are taught to hunt from the stoop, so you

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Speaker 3: actually teach them to wait on you. There's involved like

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Speaker 3: bird dogs. Bird dogs will flush the game. Your prayer

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Speaker 3: grene or your prairie falcon will come up and stoop

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Speaker 3: down and take them out. Got it. And then these

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Speaker 3: guys put transmitters on their birds and everything else. Because

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Speaker 3: some of these stoops can last go for miles. You

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Speaker 3: want to lose your bird, so you got to track

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Speaker 3: them down there he is with the duck or the

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Speaker 3: grouse or whatever, you know, a mile away. So it's

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Speaker 3: pretty neat stuff though when you really get into it,

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Speaker 3: At least for me, it.

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Speaker 2: Was what made you. What was your decision process and

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Speaker 2: becoming a cop.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of that's interesting too, because I had no

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Speaker 3: I had no thought about being a police officer. I

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Speaker 3: was selling real estate. I was nineteen. I was making

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Speaker 3: a ton of money. I was doing buying and selling

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Speaker 3: foreclosure houses, fixing them up, probably on my way to

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Speaker 3: making a lot of money. You know, I had like

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Speaker 3: mental properties and all this other stuff. When I was

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Speaker 3: nineteen twenty years old, I had some investors I was

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Speaker 3: working with. So one day this buddy of mine says, hey,

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Speaker 3: once't come in a ride along with lapd And I

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Speaker 3: even lost track of this guy. But it was somebody

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Speaker 3: I knew at the time. So he worked southeast, which

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Speaker 3: is a you know, the Watts area, very busy, very violent,

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Speaker 3: and of course I rode with a sergeant and I

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Speaker 3: got hooked. I go, this is neat, this is like

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Speaker 3: I mean, for me, it just was really you know,

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Speaker 3: it was an adrenaline rush, dangerous. I'm seeing a world

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Speaker 3: that I never was exposed to. I mean, I'm upper

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Speaker 3: middle class, you know, white boy growing up in southern California.

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Speaker 3: Here I am in a really bad area. But I

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Speaker 3: liked it so for the heck of it. And you

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Speaker 3: bring up so many memories. God, I was married with

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Speaker 3: my first wife and she just didn't like that, but

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Speaker 3: I went ahead through it. She did not think she

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Speaker 3: was gonna be married to a cop, but I went in.

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Speaker 2: I put in like this caught her by surprise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she just wasn't like we are not going there

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Speaker 3: type thing. Anyway, that's another story. But I put in

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Speaker 3: for the application in September and shockingly I was accepted

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Speaker 3: and I was already getting ready to go into a

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Speaker 3: class in December, which is pretty fast. And yeah, the

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Speaker 3: rest is history.

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Speaker 2: So and you got right into dog work.

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Speaker 3: No, I didn't. LAPD is a big department at the time,

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Speaker 3: was about sixty five hundred cops. Now it's about ten thousand.

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Speaker 3: But now they're you're losing guys left and right for

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Speaker 3: all the nonsense going on. So they get into a

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Speaker 3: canine unit with LA. Canine wasn't There's a division in

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Speaker 3: LA called Metro. Metro has SWAT mounted unit, a bing

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Speaker 3: C platoon and then canine. But when I got on,

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Speaker 3: young Canine was off doing their own thing. They weren't

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Speaker 3: in a specialized unit. So back in the old canine

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Speaker 3: there was when it started, like in the late seventies

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Speaker 3: by two guys, Sergeant Mooringen and a guy named darniell Nell.

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Speaker 3: It blew up. I mean a lot of departments in

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Speaker 3: the in the country had canines, but LA didn't. And

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Speaker 3: these guys were like the fathers of our canine unit,

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Speaker 3: and they went out and research, did a lot of work,

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Speaker 3: got the unit going, and they were housed out of

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Speaker 3: West La Division and they wanted to be part of

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Speaker 3: air support. They did not want to go to Metro.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot of ego stuff going on. But

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Speaker 3: as the unit grew with to like four or five handlers,

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Speaker 3: these guys are getting into shootings like a lot more

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Speaker 3: than SIS, more than some of the other specialized units.

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Speaker 3: Because they're hunting down armed suspects all the time, and

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of violence back then.

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Speaker 1: The canine handlers are finding themselves in more shooting incidents.

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Speaker 3: Probably they were getting more shootings back then than any

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Speaker 3: unit in the in the department, got it the department

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Speaker 3: chief cases, you know, what's going on here? You know,

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Speaker 3: we we need to put this this unit into Metro.

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Speaker 3: And you know, there was always the perception like what

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Speaker 3: are they doing here? Where? Why are all these shootings occurring?

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Speaker 3: Even back then, you know, are these guys a bunch

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Speaker 3: of cowboys whatever? But I don't think it was that.

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Speaker 3: I think it was more like, you know, back in

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Speaker 3: the late eighties, it was a really violent time. It

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Speaker 3: was like you know, the stats people talk about crime

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Speaker 3: and where it is now. But back then, I mean,

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Speaker 3: just as an example, there was about one of some

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Speaker 3: of the years there was a twenty two to twenty

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Speaker 3: three hundred homicides in La lapd alone, and now for

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Speaker 3: the whole city, and now you're lucky to break one

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Speaker 3: hundred hundred and thirty. So look at the exponentially.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing about like crime statistics get manipulated so long. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like people have this perception that this perception that nowadays

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Speaker 1: crime is so bad, but when you look at like

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Speaker 1: crime trends, it's really not.

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Speaker 3: It's not. They have even cops that I've worked with

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Speaker 3: that are new, they can't even believe the numbers. I'll

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Speaker 3: throw out the amount of searches that I did for example.

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Speaker 3: You know in canine, it just you don't hear about

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Speaker 3: those numbers. That's why our dogs were so for a

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Speaker 3: training word, seasoned. They were so good at what they

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Speaker 3: did because they had so much action in those days.

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Speaker 3: But back to that, so when I put in for

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Speaker 3: the unit for Canine, I put in for Metro too,

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Speaker 3: because at the time they were in that crossroads, like

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Speaker 3: they're going to bring you to Metro first and then

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Speaker 3: you get selected to canine. Well, back then, I was

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Speaker 3: the last group of guys that came in straight from patrol.

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Speaker 3: I was working Rampart, very busy division, and then I

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Speaker 3: went straight to canine. And then things evolved after that

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Speaker 3: where you had to go to Metro, do about a

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Speaker 3: year in Metro and then be able to put in

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Speaker 3: for canine or SWAT. And now they're called high risk positions.

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Speaker 2: Where you actually get Canine is a high risk position.

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Speaker 3: Just like SWAT, you get more money, you get hazard pay,

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Speaker 3: you get a take home car because you know it's deserved,

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Speaker 3: I guess. But that's that history of that, so you

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Speaker 3: know I did. It was a process. I got in

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Speaker 3: and I got in pretty young. I got in less

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Speaker 3: than five years on the job, which is pretty young

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Speaker 3: for that kind of a U. L A. Yeah. I

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Speaker 3: mean guys in other departments they might get in after

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Speaker 3: a year or two, but in LA it's it's a

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Speaker 3: lot more competitive, the expectations are a lot higher. All

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Speaker 3: that stuff good, bad are indifferent.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump to some definitions here. Explain to folks what

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Speaker 1: an apprehension dog is in that like juxtaposed to a

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Speaker 1: detection dog, a tracking dog like. Explain that specific term.

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Speaker 3: Well in where I you know, my shot are claim

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Speaker 3: to fame in LAPD canine. Now, within lap D, there

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Speaker 3: are several canine units that are separate from metro canine.

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Speaker 3: So you've have metro canine, which is the apprehension dog.

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Speaker 3: The dogs that actually are are taught to search, find

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Speaker 3: suspects and if needed, they'll bite them. LAPD still has

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Speaker 3: a policy of finding bark, which not a big fan

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Speaker 3: of and you know, I hate to say that, but

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Speaker 3: I'm just not a big fan of it. As things

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Speaker 3: have evolved and we can get into that later.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, we got to come back to bite

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Speaker 1: and bark. Yeah, that's a big deal because people an't

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Speaker 1: going to know what that means.

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Speaker 3: They won't. They won't and then it needs to be explained.

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Speaker 3: But that being said, that's metro and we have done

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Speaker 3: some tracking in the past. We put a lot of

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Speaker 3: time and effort into it. I did a lot of

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Speaker 3: experiment with the tracking dogs. It's very time consuming and

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Speaker 3: it works. But the problem is we just don't have

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Speaker 3: the environment for that. You know, most of our searches,

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Speaker 3: the vast majority, are going to be containments like a

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Speaker 3: perimeter search. You know, we lock down a block, two blocks,

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Speaker 3: three blocks, or a building or a warehouse, and then

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Speaker 3: we systematically clear it numerous dogs sometimes oh really yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then then you have the detection dogs, and for

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Speaker 3: most apartments, that's for most apartments because of money and economics,

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Speaker 3: they'll have what's called dual purpose dogs. That means these

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Speaker 3: dogs also are apprehension dogs, but they'll also find narcotics

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Speaker 3: or firearms or bombs. And you know, you can't do

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Speaker 3: more more than one odor with one dog. And we

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Speaker 3: can talk about that a little bit, like I can't

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Speaker 3: have a dog that's trained to find narcotics, find bombs.

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Speaker 3: Really no, it can't be done, shouldn't be done, because

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Speaker 3: it's just not there's legalities of it. You know, what's

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Speaker 3: my dog really hitting on? That's why.

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Speaker 1: So when you see it, if you're in the airport

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Speaker 1: and it just happens to me, there's a dog day,

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Speaker 1: there's a guy in the airport. That dog isn't looking

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Speaker 1: for everything. That dog's looking for a thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And there's that's another whole discussion. They have what's

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Speaker 3: called vapor wake dogs now where the dogs are taught

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Speaker 3: to just scan by people as they're walking and they'll

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Speaker 3: alert on them for maybe narcotics or maybe bombs, depending

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Speaker 3: what he's trained for. But you're never going to know.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's it's funny because back in the

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Speaker 3: nineties early nineties, before vapor wake was ever termed, we

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Speaker 3: were already experimenting with that with what with dogs that

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Speaker 3: were taught to go ahead and detect odor by following

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Speaker 3: somebody like an action instead of just pinpointing odor at

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Speaker 3: a specific location. They were taught to find and follow.

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Speaker 3: So a guy would be in the crowd walk and

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Speaker 3: I'll say, dog would alert show a body a change

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Speaker 3: of behavior and start following that person, and then you

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Speaker 3: could have time to go ahead and do what you're

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Speaker 3: going to do.

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Speaker 1: Man, Okay, we got a lot of balls in your

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Speaker 1: because I knowing I want to talk about yeah, because

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Speaker 1: when we talk before, you talking about the difference between

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Speaker 1: a dog whose noses on the ground and a dog

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Speaker 1: whose noses in the air but APPREHENDI so back to

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Speaker 1: it's all stuff I want to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I said, you got to keep guiding me here,

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Speaker 3: so because there's so much that No.

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Speaker 1: This is it's it's I want to talk about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Like I first want to just clarify.

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Speaker 2: Like what you mean by apprehension, how it's different than

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Speaker 2: a track.

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Speaker 3: And right in my world now a tracking dog is

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Speaker 3: an apprehension dog too. But basically, these dogs are trained

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Speaker 3: to find and locate, whether it's tracking or air sending,

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Speaker 3: to go ahead and find somebody and bite them if

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Speaker 3: necessary or not bite them, depending on the circumstances. And

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Speaker 3: we can talk about that. You know, a lot everybody's

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Speaker 3: got different methods. I train a certain methods that's a

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Speaker 3: little bit unique, not as unique as it used to be,

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Speaker 3: because a lot of the a lot of I think

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Speaker 3: teams are catching onto the when we search an l

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Speaker 3: A p D. And a lot of units that I

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Speaker 3: work with now with my business, I teach what's called

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Speaker 3: off lead searching and we utilize this tool, this electric

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Speaker 3: caller here and some of your audience, I'm sure it's

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Speaker 3: familiar with it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all my bodies to have the trained dogs and.

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Speaker 3: The gob fifty or whatever they use, and that's what

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Speaker 3: we use primarily, that's what I like. But our dogs

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Speaker 3: are taught to primarily air scent and find the suspect,

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Speaker 3: you know, pinpoint the odor, change of behavior, bark at

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Speaker 3: the odor, let us know, the guys inside that cupboard

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Speaker 3: or that shit or whatever. That's primarily what we do

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Speaker 3: because of our environment. There's some guys like out here

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Speaker 3: in Montana, they do a lot of tracking. They do both,

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Speaker 3: and they'll actually hit a track and you know, they

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Speaker 3: might be in the track for a half mile or

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Speaker 3: a mile and find a guy in some bushes in

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Speaker 3: a creekside, or maybe attracts to a building and then

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Speaker 3: they turn into the But they do apprehend too, so

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Speaker 3: at the end of the track they have a chance

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Speaker 3: to maybe take the guy into custody with no force.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he takes so runs they send him on them,

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Speaker 3: they take them down, yep, just give them.

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Speaker 1: So there's like a there's like a fundamental difference between

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you two scenarios. One is a scenario

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Speaker 1: you're in an agricultural rural, agricultural area, right, and you

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Speaker 1: know that a guy has gotten out of the car,

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Speaker 1: like yesterday, got out of a car and ran off

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Speaker 1: through the woods.

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Speaker 2: Right that scenario one, no one knows where he is now.

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Speaker 1: Scenario two is he comes into this building right Like

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Speaker 1: these are different yep, these are different dogs.

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Speaker 3: Well, they'll do both, Okay, it's not a big deal.

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Speaker 3: A dog can be taught the track with different commands,

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Speaker 3: even like one command might be you have them on leash,

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Speaker 3: you find out where the guy was last seen some guys,

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Speaker 3: some guys might even do discrimination where they show up

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Speaker 3: a part, you know, a jacket or something the guy

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Speaker 3: might have left. That's another thing we can get into.

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Speaker 3: But generally speaking, they'll pick up a track and nose

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Speaker 3: on the ground and they'll go footstep the footstep, but

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Speaker 3: they'll assill do what it's called trail because they're air

337
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 3: scenting at the same time. But they're taught to be

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Speaker 3: get their nose on the ground. And these dogs are

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Speaker 3: specifically trained, like, for example, if you're going to have

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Speaker 3: a tracking dog, his nose needs to be trained on

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Speaker 3: the ground immediately. In other words, if you take that

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Speaker 3: dog and start teaching him how to aircent it's going

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Speaker 3: to be very difficult to get his nose on the ground.

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Speaker 3: So that's got to be trained first because the dog

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Speaker 3: is going to go well, you know, if I want

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Speaker 3: to go to eight eight to a f I want

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Speaker 3: to skip everything which is aircenting. But with tracking, it's

348
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Speaker 3: more diligent, and the dog's got to learn to put

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Speaker 3: his nose on the ground and follow footsteps, crush vegetation,

350
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Speaker 3: skin rafter are falling, you know, like in a curb

351
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Speaker 3: or you know. It's amazing how a dog will pick

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Speaker 3: up on this stuff. But he's got to be exposed

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Speaker 3: to all these different environments to be a good tracking dog,

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Speaker 3: and it's got to be followed up on. But like

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Speaker 3: I said, if you try to take one of our

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Speaker 3: apprehension dogs that are trained to aircent, they've been doing

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Speaker 3: it for three or four years, it's gonna be very

358
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Speaker 3: hard to get them to track, got it, because they're

359
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Speaker 3: not gonna want to do it. Very difficult. So that's

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Speaker 3: that's a little bit of training thing on that.

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Speaker 2: There's a thing you explained to me.

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Speaker 1: With with with the dogs you work with, the apprehension

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Speaker 1: dogs is what was the term you used where it's

364
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Speaker 1: kind of almost seems like something from from maybe more

365
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Speaker 1: popular in movies and TV shows and reality is like

366
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Speaker 1: you show them like a hat, like the guy's hat, right,

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Speaker 1: and the dogs like, got it, I'll go find them, right.

368
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Speaker 1: But you were explaining to me that that the apprehension

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Speaker 1: dogs you guys train with, they're smelling something very different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about that. I remember, Yeah, Yeah, there's

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Speaker 3: a thing. It's and it's it's true. It's a fact.

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Speaker 3: It's been studied. There's a thing that when you're in

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Speaker 3: fight or flight, you put off a certain odor. It's

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Speaker 3: enhanced sent Some people call it fear scent. A dog

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Speaker 3: that has had a police thought, that has had numerous

376
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Speaker 3: apprehensions will be seasoned on that odor. And it's not

377
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Speaker 3: race specific. It's something that the body goes through, you know,

378
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 3: nor adrenaline, epinephrine. All these changes happened in the body

379
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Speaker 3: when you're a fighter flight, you know. I think I

380
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Speaker 3: was reminds me. I was watching the show once on

381
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Speaker 3: boar hunting, and these board hunters are out there and

382
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Speaker 3: they were talking about what they go through during a boar.

383
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Speaker 3: In fact, I knew a guy, one of the guys

384
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Speaker 3: in the unit, Joe Vita, used to go boar hunting

385
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Speaker 3: in Catalina and nunt these things down on the caves.

386
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Speaker 3: And you know, back in the day, Kally and I

387
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Speaker 3: and he would carry nothing more into three thirty seven

388
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Speaker 3: with a little scope on it and go in the

389
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Speaker 3: caves and hunt them out. And I guess you can

390
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Speaker 3: imagine the adrenaline and the fear at the same time

391
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Speaker 3: that not only is going on in your own body,

392
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Speaker 3: but also is going on in the body of the

393
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 3: boar because when he's corners, he's in fighter flight too.

394
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Speaker 3: So that's kind of what a suspect does when he's

395
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Speaker 3: in fire or flight running from the police. He puts

396
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Speaker 3: out that odor, and trust me, he does.

397
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Speaker 2: Yah.

398
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Speaker 1: You mentioned to me that this you're like, you're dealing

399
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Speaker 1: with people who this maybe is the most excited and

400
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Speaker 1: scared they've ever been in there or not.

401
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we talked about it. I mean I

402
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 3: found guys after and some of them weren't even bit.

403
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 3: They were just scared, excuse the language, shitless and they

404
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 3: they end up defecating on themselves because they're so scared,

405
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 3: especially if they're bit by the dog. And some guys aren't.

406
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 3: Some guys are very aggressive. They're yoked up there. They're

407
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 3: they're seasoned criminals, they're prisoners, you know, prisoners and all that,

408
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 3: and they take it. They take anything like a chap.

409
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Speaker 3: But this is what you want to do with the

410
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 3: seasoned dog over a period of time. When you're training

411
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Speaker 3: a new dog, you obviously can't they've tried to. They

412
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 3: can't bottle fearcent. There's companies that have tried to, and

413
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Speaker 3: I've tested them and experimented with them, and I'm not

414
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Speaker 3: seeing it. So the best you can do this is

415
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 3: old school stuff. Just kind of funny. But I remember

416
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 3: when I was a brand new handler and I'm in

417
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 3: the unit and there was a guy named John Hall

418
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 3: had his little dog named Liberty rod Wiler. We don't

419
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 3: use rots anymore, but it was his own dog you've bred,

420
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Speaker 3: and the dog was still in training and they're messing

421
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Speaker 3: with me, and you know, I'm a new guy, and

422
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: they said, Okay, we want you to hide over here,

423
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Speaker 3: and I want you to put this face mask on

424
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 3: because he's going to go for your face. He's not

425
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: going to go for my face, but he wanted to

426
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 3: put that fear in me so that when I'm hiding

427
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Speaker 3: and we're doing a training scenario, the dog will supposedly

428
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: maybe hit on me at being a little scared. Ye,

429
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Speaker 3: And it did get to me. I'm thinking, shit, I'm

430
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Speaker 3: a brand new handler. I knew a little bit about dog,

431
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: did some dog stuff before I got in the unit.

432
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: I'm like this dogs a face bier, really, and you're hiding.

433
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 3: So just that kind of thing, it wasn't going to happen,

434
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: but he was trying to recreate that. But you can't,

435
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: You really can't. You you can only do it by

436
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 3: funding real bad guys.

437
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: Really, so if one of one of these apprehension dogs

438
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: it's experienced, if I took like so, it sounds it's

439
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: an outlandish scenario. But let's say you had someone that

440
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: just was in a high speed chase, crashes a car,

441
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: gets out of the car, runs, But all of a sudden,

442
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: you could nab that person and put them in a

443
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: lineup of one hundred people, and the dog walks past

444
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: one hundred people. The dog is gonna go this dude,

445
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: he might has the odor. I'm interested he might.

446
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 3: But you know, lineups are very strange. When you're doing that.

447
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: You know, you've got to have so much corroborating evidence

448
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 3: usually you know, it's like, uh, yeah, we have. You

449
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: have to be careful on that. Relying on a dog

450
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 3: for core purposes, just to discriminate on somebody gets you

451
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 3: in a bad place, got it. Not Not not to

452
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 3: get too much into the ways, but there was a

453
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 3: program the sheriffs were using for a while and I'll

454
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 3: keep the guy nameless. But he was running a bloodhound

455
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 3: and he was claiming to do all this stuff. Dog

456
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: can you know, pick up on the drop of blood

457
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: a week old, he can hit that track, he can

458
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: find that guy three miles away going through the streets

459
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: of LA and all this other stuff. And I'm like, okay,

460
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: wait a minute, that's you're you know, you're you're making

461
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: up stories. I didn't believe it, and I did some training,

462
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: not with him, but some observations that the department wanted.

463
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: The department wanted me to look into it. Robert Homicide

464
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: wanted to look into it. And I mean, I'll just

465
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: say it had proved out that I couldn't do it.

466
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: But what what sealed it was he put a guy

467
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 3: in jail based on what he said. The dog had

468
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: found this guy with some kind of rape shooting suspect,

469
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: a male. The Hispanic guy did was already in jail.

470
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 3: DNA comes out proves that he's innocent. I did like

471
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 3: five years, got a big lawsuit out of it, and

472
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: that hurt that program big time because they based.

473
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: Everything I was like using the dogs, just the dog

474
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: sense receptions.

475
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 3: Without any cooperating evidence. The dog nailed them and it

476
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: caused them a lot of problem.

477
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: God, Well, let me ask the same Let me ask

478
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: the question in a different way. Picture that you have

479
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: that same scenario. The guy is in a high speed

480
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: car chase bam, crashes his car, gets off his car,

481
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: runs all around, enters the house. The house is full

482
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: of other people. Okay, there's a whole apartment building. Okay, whatever,

483
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: it's full of other people. You guys are all there,

484
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: the cops are there.

485
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: What does the dog?

486
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: Why doesn't the dog just run up to the first

487
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: person in the house and be like, here he is,

488
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: I got them.

489
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: Well, what would we do on that? Because we've had

490
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: that many of those where we call and he runs

491
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: into a friendly yep, or sometimes he just runs into

492
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: a pilgrim's house like a non suspect, totally innocent citizen YEP.

493
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 3: I can talk all day about some of the crazy

494
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: stuff we've had. You know, we've had guys run into

495
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: a house, we know he's in there, we banging the

496
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 3: door like sometimes gone by and we says, hey, is

497
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 3: everything okay here? And then it's like a movie. Right,

498
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: the lady looks at you and goes, everything's fine, Everything's fine,

499
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh.

500
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people listening, you're not. She's doing like.

501
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 3: Right behind the corn with a gun on her, and

502
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: she was trying to say we're good because he's going

503
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: to kill her. He was the guys, this guy's wanted

504
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: for murder, so he's got nothing to lose. And we

505
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 3: ended up catching him, but we basically picked up on

506
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: her eye movements like Okay, she's scared shitless right now

507
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: the guy's right there, and we ended up we ended

508
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: up trying to nail the house down, and this guy

509
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 3: bails out of a window, crawls up into a crawl space,

510
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 3: he hides, and we have to gas him out, and

511
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: huh yeah, we have to actually we have to actually

512
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: have to have to use hot gas because what he

513
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 3: did was he was ready for the gas. He put

514
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: a bunch of clothing on his face. He was taking

515
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: it like a champ. And hot gas is really hard

516
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 3: to defeat. It's like nasty. You gotta be careful because

517
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 3: you'll could burn down a house. What the squat guys

518
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: finally did was they kept punching it in different parts

519
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: of the ceiling, and he had corralled himself into an

520
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 3: area where he wasn't getting hit, and then finally they

521
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: put the hot gas right where he was hiding and

522
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 3: then he screamed out, I'm coming out. So that's just

523
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: another story. But yeah, you got to be careful about

524
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: discriminating like that and usually want to be safe and

525
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: have coroberating evidence and all that to you're gonna put

526
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: someone in jail, take his freedomway, you got to be right, no.

527
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: But I mean what I'm trying to get at is

528
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: how does the dog know that he's found the one

529
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: he's supposed to find.

530
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 3: Well, that's a good point. I mean, after you have

531
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: when you put a dog in training, obviously he's just

532
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: finding decoys. And that's a really good question that leads

533
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: into a lot of good training. Right when you're exposing

534
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 3: a new dog. First you get your police dog that

535
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 3: has all the right trades, You test them, you purchase them,

536
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 3: you put them through the basic obedience, and then these

537
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: dogs have the aptitude to do what we're going to do.

538
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: And we could talk all day on that. But once

539
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 3: that dog, before he hits the straight, he needs to

540
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: work in what's called the search team environment. So you

541
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: might with us, we have a point guard who's married

542
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 3: up to the handler, and we have a rear guard

543
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: two or three people behind us, and those folks play

544
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 3: a really important part in the search. That's your backup.

545
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 3: The point guard usually carries you know, either a tube

546
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: or a banelle or an ar and he's married up

547
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: right to the shoulder of the handler. So the dog

548
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 3: has to get used to all this. He's got to

549
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: get used to the team. And some dogs aren't. You

550
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 3: get them new. Some of these dogs are. They're edgy.

551
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: They're ready to just you know, bite anything and everything,

552
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: and you've got to socialize them and make them right.

553
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: Not all, but you've got to train them appropriately so

554
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: they're safe to search with. So you have to teach

555
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: him how to work within that search team sell environment,

556
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: and you do that outside the search. You might just

557
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: do a lot of ball work and playing in obedience

558
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: with the team around you. I understand the dog understands

559
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: in low drive when he's calm and cool, these are

560
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: the guys I'm working with. You don't want to introduce

561
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: that environment when the dog's at this level. It's like

562
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 3: trying to teach a human how to do things when

563
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: he's in a gunfight. The gunfight teaching starts way before

564
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: the gunfight, right, you have to teach him how to

565
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: shooting platform, how to operate the gun, calm and cool

566
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: and collected, slow fire, single fire, all that stuff. Same

567
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: thing with the dog. Most of the learning is going

568
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: to be done in a low drive environment, so the

569
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 3: dog can learn, and then you start escalating and you

570
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: bring in a myriad of other things so the dog

571
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 3: can chain all those different environments and situations and be

572
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: able to perform at a high at a high drive level.

573
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: Still listen, and these dogs are tied to a person.

574
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: Yes, for us, And for the most part, I did

575
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: a lot of military training, not as much as I

576
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: used to. I had a big contract with the Marines

577
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: for a while doing all their putting all their dogs

578
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: on the e coller. And you know, God bless them

579
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: the way that not the specialize units, not the SF

580
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: guys or the Delta guys, because those guys are married

581
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: to a dog for maybe the life of the dog

582
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: seven eight years maybe. But you're basic military guy. He

583
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: might just be working that dog for one or two

584
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: years and then dog's going to go to somebody else

585
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: and the dog is kenneled at home in their kennel.

586
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: I mean in the the the camp kennel, so they

587
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: go home every night, they come to the kennel and

588
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: pick up their dog. Which really isn't that that good

589
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: of a thing because the bonding you lack in the

590
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: bonding you know, with a police dog and agencies. They

591
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: take that dog home and that dog is their dog.

592
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: The dog learns that that's the guy that's his master.

593
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: The dog stays with him all the time, stays at

594
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: home and his kennel, all that stuff, so that the

595
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: bonni is a little bit better that way, and I

596
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 3: think that the handler gets to know that dog intimately.

597
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes it's a good thing. Sometimes it's a

598
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: bad thing because what we always battled we talked about earlier,

599
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: even with a police officerho's trained and canine, is they

600
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: end up treating that dog like a pet, and you

601
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: can't do that, and we have more problems with that,

602
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: you know, And I'm speaking of the choir. People are

603
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: probably gonna listen to this podcast go yeah, yeah, that's true.

604
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: You know, you can tell a guy over and over again,

605
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: he's a police dog, he's a tool. You can love him,

606
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: you can cry if he gets killed, but you've got

607
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 3: to treat him like a dog, and that's not a

608
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: bad thing. It's just they're not a human. You know,

609
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: dogs live for the they live for primarily food, sex, love,

610
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 3: and you know, satisfying drive, and you have to look

611
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 3: at him in that respect. And if you don't, you

612
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: got to establish that hierarchy. I guess we talked about early.

613
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: And if you don't do that, you have a problem.

614
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: Especially with these dogs. You know, they're they're up there.

615
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: You know, you want to get a dog that's got

616
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: that high drive and has all those traits for police work.

617
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: But if they're not handled appropriately, you can turn that

618
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: dog into a nasty dog, you know. And it's not

619
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: the dog's fault, it's way he's been handled. I mean,

620
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: coming up on the leash, body in the handler, body,

621
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 3: search team members. These are all the things that happen

622
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: in dog training and it's usually a human problem, you know.

623
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: Usually it is some dogs, you know, come out of

624
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: a letter. They're just two alpha They grow up very dominant,

625
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: and they're not the kind of dog you want. You know,

626
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: like when you're selecting a dog, especially as a pup,

627
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: you're looking for the dog. If you're looking at a litter,

628
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: you don't want that alpha dog. You maybe want the

629
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: number two or three dog in the hierarchy because he's

630
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: going to be a bit easier to manage. Yeah, you know,

631
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: you don't want the you know, number eight dog that's

632
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: got no drive whatsoever and you know, hides the corner

633
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: and all that. But you do that dog has got

634
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: that that drive and that alpha mentality. But you know,

635
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: you'll get some dogs in the litter that they're kicking

636
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: all the other dog's asses all the time. They're like

637
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: they're just relentless. They don't get along with any Mama

638
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: is always correcting that dog to leave the other dogs alone.

639
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: Probably if you're looking at a Malanwa or a shepherd,

640
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: probably not the great the best dog for police work

641
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: really well, because you're going to see that same thing happen.

642
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: Are going to try to dominate you, got it. And

643
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: some of these things, like I said there, they happen

644
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 3: over time, Like you talked about your pit bull thing.

645
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: Some police, some kanine officers don't handle the dog appropriately,

646
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: and next thing you know, I've seen guy dogs come

647
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: out of training and he was a great dog, great team.

648
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: A year later, I get a call from somebody, Hey,

649
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 3: so and so this dog just ate him up. I

650
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: go what happened? I don't know, But then I get

651
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: out and watch them. I'm like, okay, I can see

652
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: what's going on here. You know you're not You didn't

653
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: maintain the alpha. You didn't and in a fair way.

654
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't mean about kicking a dog, but

655
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: it means that the dog has to understand that everything

656
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 3: comes through you, like I live through you. I get

657
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 3: water from you. You feed me, you keep me alive.

658
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: And you also make him earn everything, especially the dominant dogs.

659
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: You know, like little things like and at home, you

660
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: know the way he dogs have to be consistent. You

661
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: can't treat him one way at home and then go

662
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: to work and treat him another way, because they're not

663
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: gonna It's got to be very consistent and structured. The

664
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: dog will respond accordingly. So it's little things like you know,

665
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 3: you go to put him in a police car, put

666
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: him on a sit open a door car, so you're

667
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: telling him what to do. He comes out of the car,

668
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: you open the door and make him wait, come to

669
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 3: your heal because he's not going to want to wait.

670
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 3: If you've done car deployments where the guy the dog

671
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: is sent out of the car to go and deploy

672
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: and catch somebody. We do a lot of that. That

673
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: can cause reactions that you don't want. He might just

674
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 3: pop out one time and go by the wrong person

675
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 3: because there's no structure there anymore. Yeah, makes makes sense. Yeah, yeah,

676
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 3: So you really have to in everything you're doing, you

677
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: got to really treat him like a dog.

678
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: Walk me through if you can think of a memorable apprehension,

679
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: walk me through an apprehension process.

680
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, God, something from in the field, you know.

681
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I've got some really good capers. But

682
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: we talked about the fear scent. There was a time

683
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 3: I was I was a handler and I wasn't a trainer.

684
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 3: I was new in the unit, and we had these

685
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: cops I think in seventy seven. They were ambushed. They

686
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: were deep in seventy seven their residential neighborhood, probably taking

687
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: a report call or whatever, and while they're getting in

688
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: their car, guy pulls up Craig's off a bunch of

689
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: around blows out the back windows. The cops are okay,

690
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: but out help call. So they set up a two

691
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: block perimeter, and of course this is when we were

692
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 3: transitioning over to utilizing SWAT as our backup. So the

693
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: policy was, if we have that kind of a high threat,

694
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 3: we have to use SWAT as our search team members.

695
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: Which is fine, you know, because they're trained at that

696
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: high degree and they've got the weapons and all that stuff.

697
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: But they're also working with us now, so they have

698
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: to do canine tactics and not spot tactics, which is

699
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: another conversation.

700
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: Because this dude shot at these cops. Yeah, he runs

701
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: up and you know, within two blocks where he is.

702
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they had the containment up, they had the airship overhead,

703
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: and we have a lot of resources, which is great.

704
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: It spoils us because the airship. Our airships are the

705
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 3: best in the country. I mean, the way they can

706
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: operate and communicate and use their flour system, you know,

707
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 3: all that stuff. They're just they're golden. And even back

708
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: then this you're talking a long time ago, this twenty

709
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: years ago. But anyways, the guy bails out, he's in

710
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: the containment and I started doing it. We're starting a

711
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: systematic search. And what I mean by that is we

712
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: have like a one block, let's say it's a long block.

713
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 3: It's in deep seventy seventh and we have a team

714
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: on each side. We have a team here and a

715
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 3: team here. I'm searching over here. We've got spot personnel

716
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: with us. And what we want to do is we

717
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 3: want to hopscotch. So one team searches the yard and

718
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: then pushes. Next team does the same thing and then pushes.

719
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 3: But we don't want to be back to back because

720
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: of crossfire. Oh so we want to make sure that

721
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: we're safe. But at the same time, we don't want

722
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: one team to get too far ahead because you want

723
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: to keep pushing the guy one way. And these suspects

724
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 3: are very savvy. I mean they'll you'll We used to

725
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 3: interview all of our suspects after we would catch them

726
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: really yeah. Yeah. We we brush them off and treat

727
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: them really nice because we want to get info. We'd

728
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: find out all kinds of stuff like where did you run,

729
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: what made you put down? Why did you move? All

730
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: these things? And really we put it in our head

731
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: as far as you know, tactically, how do these guys

732
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 3: liked you?

733
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: Like an exit interview?

734
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? Almost? And you know, I used to be mad

735
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: at some of the handlers. They were new and they're

736
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: treating a suspect like a you know which is fine.

737
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's you know, maybe he's a wanted suspect

738
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: or whatever. But let's think about it. Let's think ahead here, Okay,

739
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: ask him, you know, and they'll tell you. And what

740
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: they try to do is if one team gets too

741
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 3: far ahead and they're glancing over the fence and they're

742
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: watching the airship at the same time, and they know

743
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: that if that airship orbits at a certain point, he's

744
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: going to be out of view. And he'll say that

745
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 3: during an interview and he says, that's when I moved

746
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: and I hit again. Because they're trying to escape. Some

747
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: guys will just put down the old suspects. When I

748
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: came on, a unit used to just run and put down.

749
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: But they got very savvy because they knew Canon was

750
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: going to search at LA. So then they started trying

751
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: to break the perimeter and tried to find holes in

752
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 3: the perimeter. Like a unit wasn't paying attention on the perimeter.

753
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: He's looking at he's doing a peakc he says, Okay,

754
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: I got time, I'm going to jog over to the

755
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: next block. You know, these things would happen we developed,

756
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: you know, so.

757
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 2: These dudes get sad to how to avoid a.

758
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: Dog unbelievable, and how to escape and all that. So

759
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: we're pushing this guy. We're pushing, we're pushing. So I'm

760
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: starting over here with I think the backup guy was

761
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 3: a rayde Oil good guy, swat guy, big guy. And

762
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: we're pushing this guy. Get about the third yard and

763
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 3: my dog comes out and I'll mind you. And I

764
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: know it sounds cliche, but I had a great dog.

765
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: He was like I mean, even the guys in the

766
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 3: unit they said there was times when I got in

767
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: one shooting. And that's another story where they have their

768
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 3: actually says, hey, look my dog's not getting anywhere. He says,

769
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: bring out your keep, bring o qino. Your dog will

770
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 3: do his magic. So anyways, back to this story, we're pushing,

771
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: we're pushing, and also my dog's exits the yard and

772
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: his nose goes up. Now, tactically, you don't really want

773
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: to do this. I don't teach this. You want to

774
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: even if your dog gets older. You don't want to

775
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: miss anything. So you keep pushing because you don't want

776
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: to take a chance of bypassing a yard. Got it,

777
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: you might he might okid oak you or fool you.

778
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: Or whatever. It's just not good. But my dog was

779
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: just telling me he's got oder. I mean, he's like

780
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: a fishing line. I mean, he's got so much change

781
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 3: of behavior that I'm using the caller to call him back,

782
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 3: and I'm applying pressure on the caller, the e caller

783
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 3: right here, because he's got so much drive to just

784
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 3: want to blow past these yards. So I look at Doyle.

785
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 3: I go, look, he's got something down the street. I'm

786
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: going to go with it. Airship follow me. So we

787
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: pass about five or six seven yards and he's just

788
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: sucked in, goes into the yard, dives into a bush,

789
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 3: and he's on this guy just taking care of business

790
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 3: and guns out laying over there, and Doyle's on top

791
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 3: of the guy, all excited about taking him into custody.

792
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: And I'm yelling at and I says, hey, I go

793
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: come on back. I got to call my dog off

794
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 3: because I do what's called verbal outs. I'm a very

795
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,479
Speaker 3: big proponent of that. We can get into that later.

796
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: It's safe for its tactically more safer. A lot of

797
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: guys will do what's called choke off or heart outs.

798
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: But and you're you know, I don't like that, so

799
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: but I can't call him off until Doyle gets off him.

800
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 3: So I literally grab him and then I call Keno

801
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: back to my side take him into custody. But Doyle

802
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 3: goes afterwards says, that was awesome. Your dog got that

803
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 3: guy eight yards away, that the fear sent that I'm

804
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: talking about. At that time, Keno probably already had one

805
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: hundred apprehensions. You know, at that point, he was well seasoned.

806
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: He just knew that smell.

807
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean he was just you could tell.

808
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: I mean, and a lot of Canon guys will tell

809
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 3: you that they just know your search on the yard,

810
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, you get about four or

811
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 3: five yards in it, and the adrenaline kicks into you,

812
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 3: and the whole hunt thing's happening, and you can see

813
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: your dog alerting we're we're on the track. Or sometimes

814
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: we'll say hey, We'll get hold of the other unit

815
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 3: on the backside of the search and I'll say, hey,

816
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: my DOS's picking him a, picking up a lot of odor.

817
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 3: I think he's on your side, so you're getting close, yea.

818
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: Then we start got things like that.

819
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: Prevents the guy from shooting the dog.

820
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 3: Well that's a good point. I mean, you know, that's

821
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 3: another whole story. You know, what prevents a guy from

822
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: shooting you know, I think you have like two or

823
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 3: three different kinds of suspects. Okay, one of them, you

824
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: have a suspect doesn't give a shit, he doesn't care

825
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: if he dies suicide by cop. It's hard to work

826
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 3: that kind of guy because you know, you can do

827
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: best tactics in the world and he's just going to

828
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: take you out. We've had cops get killed because of that.

829
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 3: Then you have the other guy that wants to survive,

830
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 3: you know, but he'll hurt you if he can. Yeah,

831
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 3: So if you drop your tactics and he gives you

832
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: an opportunity, he's going to hurt you. But if you

833
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 3: overwhelm them with good tactics. You know, I used to

834
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 3: teach this and I got it from a sergeant many

835
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 3: many years ago. It's a great sergeant, Jack Orr passed

836
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 3: away a little a couple of years ago. It's a

837
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 3: great sergeant. And he had a thing he called the

838
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 3: tactical clock. And when you have everything at even at twelve,

839
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: the suspect is always ahead because he has to be.

840
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: He can be he can be proactive, he can shoot

841
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 3: you without any cause or whatever. Cop can't do that.

842
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: He's behind the clock because he has to be reactive.

843
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: He's got to wait and see what happens. He just

844
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: can't go out killing people. It's not like a military

845
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 3: operation where they're not the story. But you know what

846
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: I mean, you have to do. There's laws and rules and

847
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 3: policy and you have to adhere to that. So it

848
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: puts you behind the power curve. So the only thing

849
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 3: you can do is to have tactics that are overwhelming.

850
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 3: So the suspect's going to say, hey, I might take

851
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 3: that guy out, but his backup's going to kill me.

852
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 3: You know, the rear guards are going to get me whatever.

853
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: Because the way that we work and we do everything

854
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 3: off lead, which is great because when a dog works

855
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,959
Speaker 3: off lead and he's not restricted with the long line

856
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 3: like a lot of departments do, and they're great dogs,

857
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, and I've worked with them all

858
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 3: the time. But I've been asks to actually do married

859
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: classes with guys that do long line tactics and I go, well,

860
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 3: you know, I don't do that. I don't teach that

861
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: everything you do is off lead. When a dog works

862
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 3: off lead, that dog offers you reaction time because he's

863
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 3: way out ahead of you. You know, he's within range

864
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 3: to see. But reaction time is everything. You know, with

865
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 3: a long line, you're restricted twenty thirty feet and the

866
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 3: dog is always on the line, and the land's getting

867
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: tangled up on stuff and it's getting what wiped out,

868
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: and plus the dog can't work right either. When a

869
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 3: dog is working offline, especially when he gets good at it,

870
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 3: the magic really starts happening because they're using, totally using

871
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 3: the dog's natural instinct to hunt with no restrictions. And

872
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 3: he also knows through time that Dad's going to direct

873
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: me into odor. It's up to me to expose my

874
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: dog to odor. It's up to the dog to listen

875
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 3: and trust me that if you follow my direction, I'm

876
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 3: going to leave it to lead you to the Promised

877
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,959
Speaker 3: Land God. And when you get that connection, the dog

878
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: performs really well. I mean, any guy will tell you

879
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: a seasoned dog is like gold. I mean, because it

880
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: takes so long to get to that point. It's just

881
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 3: a lot of training in particulous.

882
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: The more experience valuable.

883
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like you're like you're you're like one.

884
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 3: You know, you can read your dog you know exactly

885
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: what he's telling you and and you can trust him.

886
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 3: So like let's say you know, there's a bunch of

887
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: bushes over there, and my dog will come in a

888
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 3: train dog will usually hit the corners all by himself

889
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 3: because sin has a tendency to bleed off into the

890
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: the perimeter of the yard. So you want to you

891
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: want to hit that perimeter first and then detail the

892
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 3: rest of it. So it's a it's a it's a

893
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: science and it's an art. You want to allow that

894
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: dog to hunt and self discover as much as you can,

895
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: but you also want to do it systematically so he

896
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: doesn't miss anything because sometimes you know, you a dog

897
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 3: may not get deep enough this handlers will make a

898
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 3: stake mistakes and they'll miss somebody because you didn't get

899
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 3: your dog on odor. You can't blame him on him

900
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 3: because let's say you're doing a warehouse and you're not

901
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 3: getting him deep enough into the rooms in scent plays

902
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 3: of you know, scent is not scent could be very

903
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: finite sometimes depending on the environment and not I might

904
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: have to get his nose right on the edge of

905
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: that door and then boom, you know, he alerts change

906
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 3: of behavior starts barking to the door. Okay, guys behind that.

907
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 3: So you.

908
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 2: Direct the dog's pace.

909
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 3: Yes, you don't want to overdirect him, but you also

910
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: want him to hunt, but he has to listen, and

911
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: that's a whole training thing. You know, there's you know,

912
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 3: this e caller helps a lot. This E caller is

913
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 3: magic because I can reach out and communicate with my

914
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 3: dog twenty thirty forty feet thirty forty yards away.

915
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: How are you communicating to the dog with commands and stuff?

916
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: Like if you go into a warehouse, how are you

917
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: communicating to the dog?

918
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: I want you to go in that room.

919
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 3: More A good point, But like let's say tactically, Let's

920
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: say if I'm entering a warehouse that maybe has an

921
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 3: L shape to it, big warehouse, and you want to

922
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 3: let you do your announcement, which is likely. It could

923
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: be a lot of things, but with us it might

924
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: be like, you know, this is LP a canine. We're

925
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 3: doing a canine search. We know you're in there. If

926
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 3: you don't want to get hurt and bit come out,

927
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 3: surrender yourself. You've got one minute to surrender. Come out

928
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 3: with your hands up, follow the light, follow my voice, whatever, and.

929
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: You mentioned the dog and you mentioned getting bit.

930
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 3: Yes, you tell them all that. In fact, now it's

931
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 3: really aintal I mean back in the day. You know,

932
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: now we have to record it. The units on the perimeter,

933
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 3: like in an outside perimeter, they have a pre recording

934
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 3: in Spanish and in English. Then it's got to be

935
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 3: time stamped and all those rules have to be follows that,

936
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: you know, you make sure like the guy, I never

937
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: heard an announcement of that kind of thing. You need

938
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: to do your due diligence and that all takes time.

939
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: So but we battle that because now that we have

940
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 3: to do all that, when somebody requests a canine airships

941
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: overhead while we're on the route, they get all that done.

942
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: It's already done.

943
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when we show up, boom, boots on the ground.

944
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 3: So because at first we're getting there, it's like, okay,

945
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: we're twenty minutes into this thing. We haven't even kicked

946
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 3: off yet. And time is of the essence in a search.

947
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: It's not like a barricade where a guy's in a building,

948
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 3: you know, when you may have a containment in a block,

949
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: but that suspect has freedom of movement and that will

950
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: get you every time he has freedom to move, fortify

951
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: his position, relax, you know, maybe get into a friendly

952
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 3: house or even a or even a non friendly house

953
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: which they try to get into. So you want to

954
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 3: start putting pressure on him as soon as you can.

955
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: Got it, So I lost track? What was I talking about?

956
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: Well about when you go into a warehouse, how are

957
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: you communicating to the dog, like no, no, no, go check

958
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: that room more right, don't worry about that room, And

959
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: we'll do that.

960
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 3: Sometimes we have to do that because there's scent problems.

961
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 3: We might recognize something through experience that odor is going

962
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: to play funny, like we might want to turn all

963
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: the air conditioning off because it's going to suck up

964
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 3: odor and do weird things, you know, sent does. We'd

965
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: like a lot of guys will be hiding in a

966
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 3: false ceiling like this, Yeah, sometimes in buildings, and what

967
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: will happen is the scent picture down here could be

968
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 3: totally different than up there. So my dog may hit

969
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 3: at the corner over there, barking up a storm, crawling

970
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: up the wall. Okay, guys up there somewhere, but guess

971
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 3: what he's over here on the other side, because scent

972
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: is coming down there. For some reason, I got you.

973
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: So all you can do is use the dog as

974
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 3: a tool. Okay, I know I got odor, and then

975
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 3: it turns into okay, I'm gonna put my dog up.

976
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 3: We got to hand search it now because the dog

977
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: done as much as he can makes sense. So we

978
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: get a lot of capers like that. But a good

979
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: dog will pinpoint isolate odor, and you have to give

980
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 3: him time. You'll see him. You know. A new dog

981
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: might take longer because he's working out that self discovery

982
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 3: thing we talked about. But a good seasoned dog, he'll

983
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 3: he'll bounce back and for and boom, he's right in

984
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: the corner of that door or that dipsy dumpster. Or

985
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 3: we found a lot of guys in trash cans. We've

986
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 3: got in some major shootings in trash cans.

987
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:10,959
Speaker 2: Guys like the hide and trash cans love.

988
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 3: Trash at least in la or crawl spaces. Yeah, they

989
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 3: love crawl spaces, you know the race foundation. And it's

990
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: hard because it's a hard sent picture. But when your

991
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 3: dog finds his first crawl space space, fine, he'll never

992
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 3: leave a crawl space like that again. Oh really, Oh yeah,

993
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: he'll be he'll be checking every cross space forever. It's

994
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 3: like something happens with that scent picture, because that's what

995
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: dogs learn by. They learned by pictures and chaining events, right,

996
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: So the more pictures you show them in a positive way,

997
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: it's like a snapshot, and that's how he learns.

998
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: So they learn like some architecture, I mean they learn

999
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: like building structure.

1000
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, they learn. They learn like for an example,

1001
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: and other dogs did it. My dog once he got

1002
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 3: real season. If you can picture a drone over a

1003
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 3: perimeter and you see these big, wide open yards, you know, five, six,

1004
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 3: seven of them in a block, my dog would go

1005
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 3: in automatically at the corners, bisect all of himself. I'd

1006
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 3: go in, double check, come out and do the next yard.

1007
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 3: But my dog would do this. He would do the

1008
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: same yard. And let's say the dog, here's a fence

1009
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 3: and there's a shed on the other yard, and the

1010
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: guy's hiding in the shed. So we'd come over here

1011
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 3: and he'd alert, even though the shed's twenty feet away

1012
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 3: in the next yard, but he can't get to it

1013
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: because the fence. He'd be frustrated, and without me saying

1014
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: a word, he'd run out and be waiting at the

1015
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 3: gate really because he knows I can get to him

1016
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: from the gate. That's how smart they get, because you'll

1017
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 3: allow them to learn to be a predator. You know,

1018
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: their natural state, which is what they you know, they

1019
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 3: were like a wolf or so.

1020
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: They learned structure.

1021
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: They learn structure, they learn association, and they change those

1022
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 3: things together and they just become a better animal.

1023
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 2: Are they on hand signals?

1024
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 3: Yes, there's a good point. I do. There's some units

1025
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 3: that don't. I teach them to follow the hand signals.

1026
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: That's a big that's a good, really good question. I

1027
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 3: teach them to follow hand signals. And the light, so

1028
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 3: the light, the light in the dark environment, like you teach.

1029
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: Them to like, they'll go where you shine a light.

1030
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 3: Yes, and I like the light. There's guys that have

1031
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 3: experiment with and I have too, with the laser. But

1032
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 3: the problem with the laser is dogs don't see very

1033
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 3: well at night. They don't see very like you and I.

1034
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 3: They need lateral movement, okay, like most predatory animals do.

1035
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 3: They need the back and forth. I mean, if a

1036
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 3: guy's hiding in a dark spot in a bush and

1037
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 3: I've seen this happen, and uh, really dark. The dog

1038
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: will go in and I can see him. I can

1039
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 3: see the shadow dog go in and start doing this.

1040
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: We can't see him trying to fight. He's almost like

1041
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 3: bumping into him until he bumps them. Then he goes,

1042
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: oh shit, there there he is.

1043
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: Oh really, so he smells him, but he doesn't.

1044
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: Smells him, and the odor is right there and he's excited,

1045
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 3: but he's working it out. Yeah, and it's funny to

1046
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 3: watch it. We've done stuff in muzzle, like you know

1047
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 3: where we actually hit decoys, and we do a lot

1048
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 3: of muzzle searching for a lot of reasons. Getting a

1049
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 3: dog ready for the street and all that. And that's

1050
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 3: another whole topic we could talk, which is probably something

1051
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 3: important to talk about. But yeah, we direct them with

1052
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: the light. We give them what it's called a search command.

1053
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 3: And remember we've changed all these events. We've done the

1054
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: announcement that becomes a marker. It's time to search, especially

1055
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 3: for a new dog, so that consistency thing. Okay, it's

1056
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 3: time to search. Put him on a down through the announcement,

1057
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 3: back off from the entry level because the door is

1058
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 3: always a kill zone. You don't want to just blast

1059
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 3: them from there. We've got guys that are shot there,

1060
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: you know, got to be worry of that because the

1061
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: suspects are waiting. So if you have that big warehouse

1062
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 3: with that l shape, let's say you send a dog

1063
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 3: in and we let him have his head. We just

1064
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: let him kind of get some odor. But at the

1065
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 3: same time, before we let him go deep, we want

1066
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 3: to get our backside done first. We want to clear

1067
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: an area that is safe. So we structurally we tell

1068
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: them sometimes with the caller, but most dogs will do

1069
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 3: it if they're trained properly. You call them back here

1070
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 3: revere hand singal to the right hand, singer of the

1071
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 3: left detail the backside. Okay, we got somewhere to go

1072
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 3: to now, and that's a safe area if something happens right,

1073
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 3: and then we start allowing the dog to search, and

1074
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 3: then we try to we try to as much possible

1075
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 3: keep the dog in view, you know, because sometimes a

1076
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 3: guy can hide in a spot where the scent is

1077
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 3: very minute. You won't get that heard alert. You'll get

1078
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: a little bit of a change of behavior, and then

1079
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: that's what you've got to recognize, Like that head might

1080
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 3: go up, but if you don't stick with it and

1081
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 3: you move beyond it, you might miss the bad guy

1082
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 3: got it because and the dog could be a really

1083
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 3: good dog, but sometimes that scent is very subtle, and

1084
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 3: you've got to be able to see that as a hand,

1085
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 3: you know, when I'm doing certifications or new dogs, that's

1086
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: part of the problem, getting that handler to be able

1087
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: to read his dog. Like I'll have another trainer with

1088
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 3: me and we're doing a search and we're looking, and

1089
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 3: the dog is alerting, he's showing a solid change of behavior,

1090
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 3: and then the handler just calls a dog and leaves it.

1091
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: Got it?

1092
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: And then halfway through the search, I'll go, okay, stop

1093
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 3: put your dog in it down.

1094
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And hunting and hunting birds is the thing, like, yeah,

1095
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: everybody's like he's the dog's getting birdie, right, and the

1096
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: guy that knows the first guy that knows the dogs

1097
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: getting birdies?

1098
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 2: Who owns the guy that owns the dog?

1099
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: You can see it, but you know a new guy

1100
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 3: will miss it though, yeah right, yeah, and then and

1101
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 3: I'll let him. And I don't want to go on

1102
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 3: and on with the search and knowing that he just

1103
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 3: bypass that guy twenty months ago, because then it becomes

1104
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: detrimental to the dog. And I go, look, I go

1105
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 3: just to make sure I've got my other trainer here,

1106
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 3: and we both saw the alert. Okay. Sometimes when I'm

1107
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 3: hiding somebody, I'll tell me to go hide and not

1108
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 3: even tell me where he's at. It keeps me honest, God,

1109
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 3: so that when I'm evaluating somebody, I can say I

1110
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: had no idea where's at, but I saw your dog

1111
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 3: alert and you missed it. You boned up, So you

1112
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 3: can't do that, So get your dog back over there.

1113
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: And then he goes, oh, yeah, how did I miss that? Well,

1114
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 3: you missed it, and you don't want to miss a

1115
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 3: guy in the street. That's a big deal for a unit,

1116
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 3: especially with LA. You know, you miss a guy and

1117
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 3: it's one thing to miss him when you can't get

1118
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: your dog there. Like a fortified structure, you can't get

1119
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 3: in it's all locked up, and you'll tell the command post, Hey,

1120
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 3: we searched everything except for that. You want us to

1121
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 3: bust in or not? He says, Now, we can't bust in. Okay,

1122
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 3: well it's not clear. Two hours later, the guy's found

1123
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 3: in there because we didn't get him in there. So

1124
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 3: can I miss him? No? Can I didn't miss him?

1125
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 3: You didn't allow us to search. But it's another thing

1126
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 3: when you have search an area and you call it

1127
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 3: clear and then suspect comes out. And I've got some

1128
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 3: stories on that.

1129
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: Do you There's got to be things that you can

1130
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: train a dog do and things a dog just has

1131
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: to come out of the box ready to do. You

1132
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: talk about biting, is can you train a dog to

1133
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: bite or does it got to be that that dog

1134
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: wants to bite.

1135
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 2: That's a great question, like wants to bite from birth.

1136
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. Because some dogs do they

1137
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 3: have a propensity to come out and their first apprehension

1138
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,439
Speaker 3: they have no problem biting a real bad guy. That's

1139
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 3: not normal. And sometimes when you have a dog that

1140
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 3: is that quick, maybe edgy, it brings about other problems

1141
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 3: because he's almost too much going that way. God, your

1142
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 3: normal dog is going to be you know, need training

1143
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 3: when they come out. When you test these dogs, they

1144
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: are usually from Europe and their competitive dogs in KVP

1145
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 3: ring sport, shits and work, and it's really a big

1146
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: deal over there. They make a lot of money doing it.

1147
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 3: Not as popular as it used to be, but it's

1148
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 3: still a big deal. You can look it up on

1149
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 3: the website and look at some of the trials and

1150
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 3: all that that they do. You'll see the dog hidting

1151
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 3: the guy in the bite suit, the call offs, the recalls,

1152
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: the escorts, the obedience, the agility, all that stuff. And

1153
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 3: they compete with these dogs and they get different scores.

1154
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 3: And some of these guys, some of the vendors, are

1155
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: even some of the big trainers out there. After they

1156
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 3: get a couple of high scoring dogs, they'll sell their

1157
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 3: dogs to Americans. And sometimes they're titled and sometimes they're not.

1158
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're green. I mean by that is they're brought

1159
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 3: to a certain level. They know how to bite, they're

1160
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 3: prey oriented, you know, they love the prey toy like

1161
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 3: this right here, whether it's a jude or something to

1162
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 3: play with. They've done maybe a little bit of search work,

1163
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 3: who knows, you don't know. And they're young though, they're

1164
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: very young, so they need to be brought along. And

1165
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 3: that's another story. And after nine to eleven, things really

1166
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 3: changed because the dog were all exploded. I mean it

1167
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 3: exploded with the APPREHENDI the bomb dog detection. I mean

1168
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 3: the military. You know, they were getting hundreds and hundreds

1169
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 3: of dogs and the whole thing just went crazy. So

1170
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: the need for dogs was pretty high, and that's when

1171
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: some of the younger dogs started coming out, and they're

1172
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: good dogs. I mean, you could take a younger dog.

1173
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 3: In fact, that's pretty much. The younger dog sometimes has

1174
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 3: a lot of benefits because he's not locked into the equipment.

1175
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 3: And what I mean by equipment is the bite suit,

1176
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 3: the sleeve, the undergarment sleeve and all that stuff that

1177
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 3: is used in training and competition.

1178
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 2: But how do you get it too right?

1179
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: So that's the whole thing. When you're working a dog

1180
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 3: and you get some of the basic training dog, you're

1181
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 3: teaching a dog out of hunt, but at the same time,

1182
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: you want to start introducing things. You know, when I'm

1183
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 3: teaching a dog, everything I'm doing is for the end result,

1184
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 3: which is tactics and catching a bad guy. So you

1185
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 3: take some of those disciplines that are learned in ringsport

1186
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 3: and KVP and shits and you use them. You use

1187
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 3: some of those disciplines that make sense for you, but

1188
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 3: you trash some of the other ones that don't make sense.

1189
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: And one of them would be to get him off equipment.

1190
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 3: So you do a lot of you get that dog

1191
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 3: interested in or you get him to accept the muzzle

1192
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 3: very quickly, and there's different kinds of muzzles, but you

1193
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 3: want that dog to be able to be neutral in

1194
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 3: the muzzle. Some of the problems just to talk about training,

1195
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 3: all put muzzles on some dogs that have had aggression

1196
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 3: training in muzzle, which is fine, but they're not neutral

1197
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 3: in muzzle. So when that muzzle goes on, he gets aggressive,

1198
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 3: and that's not what you want. You want him to

1199
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 3: be gunfire neutral. You want him to be muzzle neutral.

1200
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,439
Speaker 3: You don't want rounds going off and the dogs looking

1201
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 3: for some of the nab or bite. Now he's not safe.

1202
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 3: You want him to be able to just accept the

1203
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 3: gunfire and move on to his work. Same thing with

1204
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 3: the muzzle. So the muzzle allows you to when you're

1205
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 3: playing cat and mouse, when you're playing you know, hide

1206
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 3: and seek with the dog, and you're setting up training

1207
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 3: scenarios when that dog learns how to hunt in the muzzle,

1208
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: not only just hit in the muzzle, because when a

1209
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 3: dog is really good in the muzzle, you'll send him

1210
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: on a straight here and they'll hurt you. I mean,

1211
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: I've had guys without protection broken ribs and.

1212
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 2: From the dog hitting even though he can't bite you

1213
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: can't bite.

1214
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just like rockets and they're trained right, and

1215
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: I train them really good in muzzle. I have a

1216
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 3: certain technique and my dog's you know, they'll they'll they'll

1217
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 3: put some hurd on you. So sometimes we'll wear a

1218
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 3: vest sometimes over a big jacket, will wear it's like

1219
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 3: a ski vest or something. Yeah, a skiing vest because

1220
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 3: they'll hurt you. Plus it depends on the skill of

1221
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 3: the decoy too, obviously, But yeah, that's one thing you

1222
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 3: want to do. Another thing would be to do what's

1223
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: called a lot of civil fines. And when I say civil,

1224
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: it means no equipment. So when I'm hiding people right away,

1225
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 3: I had to take all the equipment off him. He's

1226
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 3: hiding in that cabinet. We got him stuck in there,

1227
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 3: and you know, he's sweating up a storm he's in

1228
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 3: his tight But you want to mimic the real environments,

1229
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 3: like for example, you might start just leads into something else.

1230
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 3: You might start a dog on a really simple odor,

1231
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: like a really small closet with a door, because you

1232
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 3: know the sense is going to be true and the

1233
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 3: dog knows how to apprehend, he knows how to catch,

1234
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 3: you know, take bites and all that. But you want

1235
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: to introduce him into odor. So we'll put a guy

1236
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 3: in a suit behind that door and we'll let him

1237
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: cook up. That means he's a lot of scent is

1238
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 3: developing inside that small room, and we crack the door

1239
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 3: and make it super easy. So we may do the

1240
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 3: announcement twenty yards away or at the beginning of the room,

1241
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 3: and then depending on the dog and what I think

1242
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 3: he might need or you know, lapd com ale your

1243
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 3: hands up and then the decoy will do a picky boo.

1244
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: He'll open up and he'll paint a picture. He'll start

1245
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 3: screaming at the dog, and the dog's barking. He's all excited.

1246
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 3: Then he shuts the door and leaves it cracked. We

1247
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 3: send a dog in, so now we want to teach

1248
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 3: him to be able to bark at the scent. So

1249
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 3: he'll go in frustrated, going, okay, where do you go? Yeah,

1250
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 3: and he's thinking some dogs will pick up on really quick.

1251
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 3: They'll go and they'll start working it, and all of

1252
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 3: a sudden you'll see his nose go up and he

1253
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 3: goes to that corner and then he starts scratching and

1254
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 3: he gets frustrated, and it's important for the handler to

1255
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 3: shut up because you want that alert to be between

1256
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 3: him and the odor. It's called making the dog be

1257
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 3: obedient to odor. And you'll see the mistake. Sometimes a

1258
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 3: handler will be back there, going what you got, buddy?

1259
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 3: Dog looks around, he goes, okay, you just marked it.

1260
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 3: So in other words, instead of the dog's self discovering,

1261
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 3: you've told the dog to alert, and then what happens

1262
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 3: is the dog will end up falsing. He'll go to

1263
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 3: a door, check it out, look back at you. You'll

1264
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 3: think the guy's in there, and you'll go, what you got.

1265
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 3: Dog starts barking, open it door. Nobody's there because you

1266
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 3: marked it. And it's not about you. It's about what

1267
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 3: happens right there with that odor makes sense. Ye, Little

1268
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 3: things like that will happen. And you know, when I

1269
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 3: go do a lot of problem solving, I'll see it

1270
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 3: right away. The dog will be, you know, at the set,

1271
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 3: and he's looking back. I go, you've been talking to

1272
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: your dog a lot, haven't you go? You got to

1273
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: shut up. I go, in fact, get out of the room,

1274
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 3: go hide and let your dog do his thing. I

1275
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:26,479
Speaker 3: don't want to even see you, and then we fix

1276
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 3: it so that because you don't want that dog fALS thing.

1277
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to get back to a question I'm trying

1278
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: to so the bite, Yeah, like yeah, I mean, so

1279
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: dog might go up and find something, But how do

1280
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: you ever get to how do you ever get to

1281
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: where you know the dogs going to come up and

1282
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: bite but also not bite the guy in the face.

1283
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 3: Sure, well, you know almost all the bites are going

1284
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 3: to be on the extremities.

1285
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: That's just because that's just what a dog is going

1286
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 2: to do.

1287
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 3: Well, that's what he's going to be offered to when

1288
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 3: during decoy work. You know, one of the one of

1289
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 3: my favorite bites is the inside run bite. I like

1290
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 3: that one. There's all will thing called bite marking. Way

1291
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 3: way back in the day, we used to do a

1292
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 3: lot of what's called pulling on the bite, and I

1293
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 3: called it more of like a prey bite. And it's

1294
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 3: not a it's not a good bite. It's not a

1295
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 3: bite that's going to take down a suspect. You want

1296
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 3: a dog that's going to be digging in and you

1297
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 3: mark the you mark that with a good decoy work.

1298
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 3: That means the dog bites and he pushes. That's just

1299
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 3: that's just a detail. I like it because the decoy

1300
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 3: can really work the dog. He can feel it. A

1301
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 3: good decoy will tell you what he needs. A good

1302
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: decoy and I my training groups actually hire a decoy

1303
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: and it's it's kind of a the handlers are kind

1304
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 3: of spoiled because back in the day we did our

1305
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 3: own decoying. Now I hire people to do it, and

1306
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 3: it's hard work, but they're good and it makes that dog.

1307
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 3: You know, I can fix problems a lot with a

1308
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 3: good skilled decoy. Guys that you know do bringsport, KVP

1309
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 3: and all that pay him some money. They come in,

1310
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 3: they help. But when he's when that dog's biting, Let's say,

1311
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:00,040
Speaker 3: for example, that dog has a propensity to pull. So

1312
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 3: when you take that inside arm bite and the dog

1313
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: comes in and he's pulling, you ignore the behavior. You

1314
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 3: don't give him a mark on it, and then you

1315
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 3: wait the dog out and then pretty soon he's not

1316
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 3: getting any kind of reward. He's just kind of pulling.

1317
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 3: All of a sudden he does this bites.

1318
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 2: Oh, you do.

1319
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 3: A mark, and then the dog does again, and pretty

1320
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 3: soon that.

1321
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 2: Remain You do a reaction.

1322
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll do it, you'll turn away, go to a submission,

1323
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 3: and he likes that because you're showing that you're kicking

1324
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 3: his ass, you know, the dog. The dog picks up

1325
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 3: on it. Oh, I get a reaction here because what

1326
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 3: he was trained to do was some we call him

1327
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 3: bite dummies. You're not doing anything for the dot. You're

1328
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: just a bite dummy. The dog will bite. He's pulling,

1329
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 3: and he's pulling, and the handler's going or the decoy's going, ah,

1330
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 3: he's marking all bad behavior. So the dog learns to

1331
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 3: pull the problem with the pull bite. If you have

1332
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 3: a real apprehension the dog might pull and rip off

1333
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,919
Speaker 3: clothes and start shaking on it a piece of prey.

1334
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 3: That goes into another little story. So you want that

1335
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 3: bite to be firm and pushing.

1336
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: So you can, like you encourage the dog to bite

1337
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: how you want it. By the decoy overreacting when it's

1338
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: doing the right.

1339
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 3: It's very subtle too. You don't need to scream, and

1340
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 3: it's just little things like you're looking at that dog.

1341
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 3: You're feeling the confidence. The decoy will tell you, Okay,

1342
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 3: don't call him yet, don't call him, let me watch him.

1343
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 3: He rebites him pretty soon he's pushing. Oh yeah, And

1344
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: pretty soon he's pushing and digging in and the bite's

1345
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 3: really strong. And then you obviously keep your control. And

1346
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 3: all my outs are verbal outs, which is another thing.

1347
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 3: You know a lot of guys do choke offs.

1348
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: Do you ever get a dog that's got too much

1349
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: like he's too good at biting and it winds up

1350
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: being not safe to use the dog.

1351
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 3: Well, he's only not safe he's biting the wrong thing.

1352
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 3: Oh you mean, because he's so powerful. Yeah, that's a

1353
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 3: good point. I'll leave it nameless. There was an apartment

1354
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 3: I worked with uh I still work with him. I

1355
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 3: have a contract with him. And one of their old

1356
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 3: handlers had a dog and he was the son of

1357
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 3: his other dog from a really good breeding line. And

1358
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 3: it was a shepherd. And not a lot of shepherds

1359
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 3: out there anymore. There are, there's some great shepherds, but

1360
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: everybody's using their mouths in the Duchi's you know, I

1361
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 3: ran a great shepherd whatever. But this dog was a

1362
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 3: powerful dog, and he had a couple of apprehensions where

1363
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 3: he bit him, wasn't long in a bite and brought

1364
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 3: the guy's arm and that can be a problem.

1365
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 2: If the dog's bite broke.

1366
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 3: The dude, it wasn't like he was on them long.

1367
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 3: This this dog, I mean, you would take a bite

1368
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 3: on him through the bite suit and it would hurt.

1369
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 3: I mean, you have to wear neoprene undergarments and the

1370
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 3: bite suite otherwise you're feeling some good pain, you know.

1371
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 3: I remember working dogs back in the day. We had

1372
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 3: some pretty lousy bite suits. The department wasn't keeping up

1373
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 3: on our equipment, and I'd go home sometimes I didn't

1374
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 3: even know it, take my T shirt off, getting ready

1375
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: to go to bed, and I can't get my shirt off,

1376
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 3: and I got blood dried up blood on my uniform

1377
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 3: T shirt stuck. He didn't go through this suit, but

1378
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 3: the pressure made me bleed. Yeah, my arms all black

1379
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 3: and blue. It hurts, you know, because they bite hard

1380
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 3: even with a bite suit.

1381
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: You when we talked before, you explain something to me

1382
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: that like you tell people about.

1383
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 2: When you go to buy dogs.

1384
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: And you're in the police work and you're and you're

1385
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: shopping for dogs from the same sources that the military

1386
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: is shopping for dogs. Right, You're saying, the military wants

1387
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: dogs that don't bark, but you guys want dogs that do.

1388
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,560
Speaker 2: The police want dogs that do bark.

1389
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: Right, and that's more of a thing that that's just

1390
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: like the dog's tendency and not necessarily a thing that

1391
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: you train into a dog like the dog don't hunt silent.

1392
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's easy to make the dog silent.

1393
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 2: It's easy to make it.

1394
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 3: Most dogs will come in silent. You know. You got

1395
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 3: to teach them to bark like an odor and all that.

1396
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 2: Oh you do, okay, yeah you do.

1397
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes we'll pick it up pretty naturally. But

1398
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 3: some dogs are really quiet. We had a dog that

1399
01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 3: came out of training from another vendor and he's a

1400
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 3: good friend of mine, and they had a tendency of

1401
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 3: not getting that dog those dogs that bark on odor.

1402
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 3: And we have some discussions by going, hey, look, because

1403
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 3: once that dog is allowed to find somebody in that

1404
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 3: closet or that cupboard and showing some indication but no bark,

1405
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 3: and then he gets paid with a bite. You've taught

1406
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 3: him to be quiet, ye, and he've done that over

1407
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 3: and over again. It's hard to fix.

1408
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 1: And that's problematic for you guys because of legal issues.

1409
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: The dog's got to bark.

1410
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's something positive that you can say

1411
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 3: and helps you as a handler. Like I mean, for example, too,

1412
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 3: he he may not even be able to get to

1413
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 3: source to this to where the guy actually is. Like

1414
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 3: let's say the guy's up in that ceiling. The dog

1415
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 3: is trained to get as close to sores as possible

1416
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 3: and bark, So you'll have a dog that can't get close,

1417
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 3: but he's as close as he can. You'll crawl up

1418
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 3: that wall and start barking. Yep, that's pretty good. That's

1419
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 3: a pretty good indication to have. And he also it

1420
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 3: steadies the dog. What I mean by that is that

1421
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 3: the dog is given a behavior to do, and when

1422
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 3: you first teach them to barget odor, you go with

1423
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 3: one or two barks bie, okay, next one one, two,

1424
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 3: three four bite, And then you want to vary it.

1425
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 3: You know, the variable to intermittent. And what that means

1426
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 3: is you're going to lock in the behavior. Sometimes I

1427
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 3: want you barking twenty times at that door. Sometimes I

1428
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: want you barking twice, because if you don't do that,

1429
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 3: if you don't you know, you use pattern to train

1430
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,879
Speaker 3: a dog, but you have to know when to deviate

1431
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 3: from the pattern to make the behavior solid. Ye. What

1432
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 3: I mean, but that is it might be bark, bark, bark,

1433
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 3: Oh no, bite, I'm going to leave because I always

1434
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 3: get bite on the third bark. So you want to

1435
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 3: build up the tolerance, you know, the time and the

1436
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 3: length and all that, so the dog stays at that

1437
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 3: odor because it might come up in a real search

1438
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 3: where you know, you want to make sure the guy's there,

1439
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 3: like you're calling out swat. You got all these resources.

1440
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 3: You really want to make sure that guy's going to

1441
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 3: be there.

1442
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: So there's not a reason, there's not like a legal reason.

1443
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: I thought that dog would need to bark no and

1444
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 1: like as a way to like announce itself to the

1445
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: suspect so that the suspect couldn't like come at you legally.

1446
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 3: Sure. Sure, and sometimes you can bring them back and

1447
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 3: have the dog bark up, you know, but if your

1448
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 3: dog barks at a door, we're going to de escalate.

1449
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 3: We're going to call him back in a real search,

1450
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 3: and we're going to order the guy out, got it,

1451
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 3: And we're gonna do it several times. In fact, with

1452
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 3: LA I'm not sure about some of the other departments,

1453
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 3: but even the departments I work with, if a guy

1454
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 3: is in a shed and a dog is solid and

1455
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 3: he's barking and he just shot Let's say he just

1456
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 3: shot a cop or murdered somebody. Times on your side,

1457
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 3: you know, you don't need to make an entrance into there,

1458
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 3: call your dog back, surround it treated like a barricade.

1459
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 3: Then you have all these other tools you can bring in.

1460
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 3: You can forty millimeters gasset whatever. But there's no there's

1461
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 3: no rush to go in. And that would be my

1462
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 3: training because you're going to get hit on that. It's like,

1463
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 3: you know, there's been a lot of lawsuits out there

1464
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 3: where guys, you know, they cowboy their way in and

1465
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 3: then they actually kind of make a shooting happen, you know,

1466
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 3: because and that goes into like, well, I use a canine,

1467
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 3: you know, I can just get into this a little bit.

1468
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:19,719
Speaker 3: Back in the day when canines on LA were still

1469
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 3: kind of new and there was a we were having

1470
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 3: an issue with our use of forest division, and they

1471
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:27,759
Speaker 3: were teaching a lot of how to chase a suspect,

1472
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 3: how to chase, how to pie a corner, how to wait,

1473
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 3: be safe, all that stuff. And I watched it and

1474
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 3: the sergeant was doing it was a great guy, very

1475
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 3: good instructor. But I'm coming from another world. You know,

1476
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 3: I'm coming from Canine. So I'm not teaching how to

1477
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 3: chase a guy. I want to teach how to contain.

1478
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 3: So you're not going to catch people if you're chasing

1479
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 3: them unless you can, unless you're an athlete, you can

1480
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 3: run the guy down within the first twenty thirty yards,

1481
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 3: he's gone if you're doing it safely. Because when you're

1482
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 3: chasing an armed suspect or potentially that guy cuts the corner,

1483
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 3: You're not going to cut the corner. You're gonna you're

1484
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 3: gonna buy that corner slow and make sure he's not

1485
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 3: going to ambush you or you're gonna get shot. Maybe,

1486
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,799
Speaker 3: So if you're teach, if you're if you're chasing him properly,

1487
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 3: he's going to gain ground on you all the time

1488
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 3: because he doesn't have to worry about anything. So why

1489
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 3: not back off and contain the guy. So we would

1490
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 3: teach like, hey, if you can't run this guy down quick,

1491
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 3: and you know your average patrol cop, you're in the car,

1492
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 3: it's cold, it's you're calm, you've been just had Code seven,

1493
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 3: you just had something to eat, you've been relaxed and

1494
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 3: Now this guy, this athletic suspect Boom is running and

1495
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 3: you're coming out with forty pounds of gear on you. You

1496
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 3: get hurt, you're going to get sick, You're gonna rip

1497
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 3: your hamstring. Whatever it happens all the time. So contain

1498
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 3: this guy. So the city of La, the way the

1499
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:58,719
Speaker 3: cops are trained is to contain and it's phenomenal. People

1500
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,799
Speaker 3: across the country can't believe sometimes our find ratio.

1501
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 2: Contain them and let them settle in, yeah.

1502
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,799
Speaker 3: And de escalate. And the way I sold the apartment,

1503
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 3: I go, hey, look, you want to get your use

1504
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 3: of force capers down. Your use of force incidences where

1505
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 3: it's an investigation. If you're going to chase somebody, run

1506
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 3: them down, that's going to be use force. You know

1507
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 3: you're going to tackle the guy, could be a fight,

1508
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 3: everybody gets hurt, suspect gets hurt, Boom. If you want

1509
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 3: to de escalate, that contain this guy. Plus it's safer

1510
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 3: right you give you give that that chance, that suspect

1511
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:35,720
Speaker 3: a chance to de escalate, and you're going to catch them.

1512
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:38,639
Speaker 3: So what I'm getting at. When I was on a unit,

1513
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 3: we had about a fifty find ratio on containments not

1514
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 3: too bad. And I was talking to one of the algren,

1515
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 3: one of the chief trainer on LAPD now and they

1516
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 3: supposedly have like a seventy to seventy five percent find ratio.

1517
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 3: That means every time a perimeter is set, that's the

1518
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 3: odds of catching somebody. It's not because of the canine,

1519
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 3: it's because the perimeter units are locking these guys in it.

1520
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 3: Like when you see a pursuit on TV and you've

1521
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: got you know, the old thing used to be and

1522
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 3: still you'll see it on TV. You got primary suspect

1523
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 3: traveling at a high rate of speed and you got

1524
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 3: seven cars behind them. Yeah, that's stupid because your seventh

1525
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 3: car is not doing anything. So you're going through this

1526
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 3: neighborhood with a big daisy chain chase chasing this guy.

1527
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 3: What our guys will do? And another department like the

1528
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 3: final chase scene A remember that a thing called the

1529
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 3: Animal Planet. There was a Attenborough whatever doing a narration

1530
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 3: and he was doing it. They had some great footage,

1531
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 3: maybe a drone, I don't know what they had, but

1532
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 3: it was they were filming those African hunting dogs. There

1533
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 3: were a certain breed out there and they work in

1534
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 3: big packs, not like wolves. They're like thirty of them.

1535
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 3: And they had them chasing a deer and it was

1536
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 3: just like I train or we train. They had about

1537
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,519
Speaker 3: three or four of them chasing this deer and then

1538
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 3: they had the group splitting off. Got it, so they

1539
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 3: had a rolling containment. So by the time they surrounded

1540
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 3: this thing, the deer ended up going into the water,

1541
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 3: but they had him corralled because they're had nowhere to go. Now,

1542
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 3: I say, well, it would have been all right here,

1543
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 3: he's got open space left and right.

1544
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 2: I understand.

1545
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 3: But that's a natural thing that they developed, you know,

1546
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 3: without just beautiful right.

1547
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 2: So instead of seven cop cars chasing spread out.

1548
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, an airship a good airship and us, well,

1549
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 3: we can tell when a guy is going like the

1550
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,599
Speaker 3: airship will say, okay, it does be advised. He's slowing down.

1551
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 3: I think he's looking for a place to bail because

1552
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,600
Speaker 3: he's in a friendly area. Now he's like his own territory,

1553
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 3: unless he's like doing some like let's say a South

1554
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 3: End guy in seventy seventh is capering in west Ola

1555
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 3: by Beverly Hills, gonna he's gonna bail quick because he's

1556
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 3: out of his territory. Right, He's got to get out

1557
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 3: of the car quick because he knows there's going to

1558
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:57,639
Speaker 3: be a containment, so he's not going to go very long.

1559
01:17:58,200 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 3: But when you get in a pursuit in seventy seven,

1560
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 3: he's going to stay in that car because he's going

1561
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 3: to go to an area that he knows and maybe

1562
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 3: get into a friendly. So there's a big old different mindset.

1563
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 3: But with that being said, the airship will say, Okay,

1564
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 3: he's slowing down. Units be aware, let's start setting up

1565
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 3: the containment now. And they units that are left and right,

1566
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 3: so we'll have like the primary unit, secondary unit, maybe

1567
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 3: a third unit. Everybody else is out here. So when

1568
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,639
Speaker 3: that guy bails, we've already got units here and here,

1569
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:27,839
Speaker 3: so we lock him in. Yeah, he's not going anywhere.

1570
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then your dog comes in and does.

1571
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 3: Find Ratio just goes up. Because these guys are thinking

1572
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 3: containment and not chasing. It's a whole different mindset. And

1573
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 3: I tried, and you know, like there's some of the

1574
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 3: departments I work with, like in Texas, and great guys.

1575
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 3: I got some good dogs. I got. In fact, one

1576
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 3: of the guys in Texas, Chris Morey runs a for

1577
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 3: Harris County. They run twenty dogs, and he's frustrated because

1578
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 3: he knows all these tactics and he's getting into the

1579
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 3: off leash thing like I teach him. Taught him. But

1580
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 3: they just don't have the resources like that, and they

1581
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 3: do a lot of tracking. They just they don't have

1582
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 3: that many airships because you need all that stuff. And

1583
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 3: I feel bad for some of the smaller agencies because

1584
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 3: you can really lock these guys down with a good airship.

1585
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 3: But we're using a lot of drones. Now. Drones are

1586
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:18,600
Speaker 3: coming in real handy, these big drones, you know, like

1587
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 3: the size of the scouch. Yeah, you know, these guys

1588
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 3: are operating them, and it's beautiful what they can do

1589
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 3: with them.

1590
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: So where do most of the So you're saying that,

1591
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,799
Speaker 1: like you're still involved in dogs and dog training.

1592
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of these dogs are coming out of Europe?

1593
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, most of them. Most of them are.

1594
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 2: Why is that?

1595
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 1: Why is the why is the center of this kind

1596
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: of apprehension dog coming out of here?

1597
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 3: It just always has. I mean, there's some breeders out

1598
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 3: here and they've done some breeding. In fact, one of

1599
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 3: the companies are working Spectrum canine. They bred a duchy

1600
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 3: that we got for San Pablo, and they bred that

1601
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 3: dog and that dog is just tearing it up. Great dog,

1602
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 3: but they know how to breathe, they know how to

1603
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,799
Speaker 3: bring the dog up properly. And because it's a whole process.

1604
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 2: What countries in Europe are big into this.

1605
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 3: You know, you got hungry Turkey, Slovakia, France, Holland, Germany.

1606
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 3: Germany used to be bigger because a lot of the

1607
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 3: dogs out of there were coming where they were shepherds,

1608
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 3: but some of the more desired breeds, it seems to

1609
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 3: have really gone toward the mouths and the Dutch shepherds

1610
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 3: got it.

1611
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: What's one of these dogs worth coming out preliminary training?

1612
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 3: When I came on a job, we were picking up

1613
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 3: dogs for three thirty five. Now you're talking about thirteen thousand,

1614
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 3: maybe fifteen grand.

1615
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 2: And that's for dog which is basic training.

1616
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 3: Basic training. Yeah, and some want more if they include

1617
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 3: some kind of training with it. But yeah, they're expensive.

1618
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 3: And then you also, you know you want to like

1619
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 3: I used to work with a vendor van Lick Kennel's

1620
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 3: out of Indiana, Ken Lackletter, Rennet and get. They were

1621
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 3: getting hundreds of dogs a year, hundreds. It's facilities in Indiana.

1622
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 3: We go there, I take my guys. I'd get a

1623
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 3: hotel Stadred for like three or four days test dogs.

1624
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 3: Another one the elder is Kennels in Riverside. They get

1625
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 3: a lot of good dogs too. But you know, like

1626
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:18,600
Speaker 3: my trainer told me once, he says, where do you

1627
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 3: find a good dog? You find a good dog. Where

1628
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,599
Speaker 3: a good dog is. I mean, you have to keep

1629
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 3: your eyes on them. But the problem is you want

1630
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 3: to vendor you can trust so you don't waste your time.

1631
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 3: You also want to guarantee, because you could have three

1632
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 3: months into the dog and things start happening medically or whatever,

1633
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 3: So you want that guarantee that you know. But something

1634
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 3: that I learned kind of the hard way when I

1635
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 3: was working as a head trainer in La. You, I

1636
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 3: don't know, you look complacent, maybe a little sloppy because

1637
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,639
Speaker 3: you have all this time. And I had a tendency

1638
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 3: sometime not always, but and a dog's not perfect, but

1639
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 3: I can make them work good. And then I paid

1640
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 3: the price for that because you know, maybe I can

1641
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 3: make him work, but he's got to go to that

1642
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 3: handler and he's got to continue to make him work.

1643
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 2: Got it?

1644
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 3: And I learned that, you know.

1645
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:12,440
Speaker 2: Just through you learn to focus on perfect dogs exactly.

1646
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 3: I learned to be greedy, huh. And I learned I

1647
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,719
Speaker 3: learned to fly out to Indiana or go to Riverside

1648
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 3: or wherever I'm going, and spend two days training and go, well,

1649
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 3: you don't have anything for me, I'm leaving. But sometimes

1650
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 3: when you do that, the guy will go, well, wait

1651
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 3: a minute, I got one dog you didn't see. I

1652
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 3: saved him for special Forces. But if you really want

1653
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 3: to see him, I'll show him. He'll bring him out,

1654
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 3: and I'll go, you wasted three of my days, wrap

1655
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 3: them up. Of course I want him. You know you

1656
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 3: were hiding him for somebody else because a vendor will

1657
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,760
Speaker 3: sell you what you'll buy. Not anything against vendors, you know.

1658
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 3: They they'll help you to a certain point, but their

1659
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 3: job is to sell dogs. Yeah, you know, And so

1660
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 3: you don't want to wait.

1661
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:56,120
Speaker 1: That would like if you look if you think about

1662
01:22:56,160 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 1: bird hunters, do you think that like would your recommendation

1663
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: to people training bird dogs or duck dogs whatever, would

1664
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 1: your recommendation be that same thing?

1665
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 2: Like they don't waste time on m profession un percent.

1666
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 3: In fact, Huh, there was some you know during the

1667
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 3: after nine to eleven that got really big into the

1668
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 3: SSD dogs and some of the dogs were looking for

1669
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 3: bombs and they used that same method that the bird

1670
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 3: dogs do. You know. I did some training with the

1671
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 3: Marines on it, and they were at Camp Pendleton. I

1672
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 3: was down there training with them doing a patrol dog class.

1673
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 3: But they brought in some of their SSD dogs and yeah,

1674
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 3: they were I learned a lot on that because we

1675
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 3: weren't really into that. And they would contract these dogs

1676
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 3: out to certain organizations that made a lot of money.

1677
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:49,679
Speaker 3: They were charging departments like got forty grand for a dog,

1678
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 3: you know, for the training and everything. But they were

1679
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 3: good dogs. They were taught to hand signal, go straight out,

1680
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 3: get older, turn around, face to left and right. Some

1681
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 3: of these guys in the Marines were actually using communication

1682
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 3: devices strapped to their callers so they could talk to

1683
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:09,599
Speaker 3: them through that. Got it, And uh, you know they

1684
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 3: were finding bombs and all that because that would they were.

1685
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 3: They were dogs that were taught to find ground ground explosives.

1686
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 2: Yep.

1687
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 3: So that's all they did. They did a good job.

1688
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: What's your take on these services that uh, you know

1689
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 2: these people.

1690
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: Now you get these people buying these like high end

1691
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: like kind of like executive dogs. You know, it's supposed

1692
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: to be like these these like souped up dogs meant

1693
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 1: to protect you and your family.

1694
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 2: Do you buy that?

1695
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, here's the problem with that. You can anybody

1696
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,799
Speaker 3: can purchase a dog that's going to take care of business,

1697
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 3: but at the same time, that dog might get you

1698
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 3: in real trouble, right, I mean, if a real dog,

1699
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 3: a dog that's really going to take somebody down, you

1700
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 3: better you better, you better go as much you better

1701
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 3: go through as much training as that dog went through

1702
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 3: to handle that dog and really know that. It's like

1703
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 3: having a weapon, right, I mean, you know, you just

1704
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 3: don't hand somebody a gun. You teach them how to shoot,

1705
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 3: and you also want to teach them about liability risk

1706
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 3: management because you get yourself in a lot of trouble.

1707
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: Amy someone walking around with some like some dog that,

1708
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 1: yeah that means business when he attacks it, or is this.

1709
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 3: He might look really good in the equipment and the

1710
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,679
Speaker 3: bite suit and the muzzle, but will he really bite somebody?

1711
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 3: Because that's what we do. That's the problem of police work,

1712
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 3: you know, because besides the muzzle work and the civil

1713
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 3: finds that I talked about. We do undergarments, we do prosthetics,

1714
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 3: you know, which is like the fake arms that we

1715
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 3: teach a dog to buy different services so that we

1716
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:48,879
Speaker 3: throw a myriad of things at him so that generalization occurs.

1717
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,599
Speaker 3: That means that whatever that guy offers you, you're going

1718
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 3: to bite it. You're not going to freak out over

1719
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 3: it or release it or have some kind of problem

1720
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 3: with it.

1721
01:25:59,600 --> 01:25:59,760
Speaker 2: You know.

1722
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: Funny about that man is when you set up electronic

1723
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 1: predator callers. Right, it's so interesting to watch when a

1724
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: kyote comes in.

1725
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,559
Speaker 2: I've seen cats come in. When they hit that thing.

1726
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: How quickly they know that that doesn't feel like what

1727
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 1: it was supposed to feel like, right, I mean.

1728
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 3: They they like back, they hate it, But I bet

1729
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:28,680
Speaker 3: you have some dogs they bustled right through it.

1730
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,480
Speaker 2: No, No, I've seen with coyotes.

1731
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,600
Speaker 1: Once they make contact with it, they know it's like

1732
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: a little decoy, right, they know that that's not what

1733
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 1: they were at Like just the feel of it, the bite, feel,

1734
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 1: the way it feels on their paws, the way it

1735
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: feels on their body.

1736
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 2: They like, hit it there out the door.

1737
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 3: That's that's a that's a good example. Yeah.

1738
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're like, that ain't what I thought it was, right.

1739
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 3: And we've we've had that, you know, we've had that.

1740
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 3: In fact, yeah, my my and I was a brand

1741
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 3: new handler and he was in a situation where we

1742
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 3: were supposed to bite and he went in there and

1743
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:10,120
Speaker 3: it was a find him. It was still find to bark,

1744
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 3: but it escalated to a situation where the guy needed

1745
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 3: to get bit. He got aggressive and he went in

1746
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 3: and he nabbed him and then he backed off. And

1747
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm a new handler and I'm like, I'm thinking my

1748
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 3: dogs hard. He's doing all the stuff that we did right,

1749
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 3: And my trainer, Doniel Nelly come out and go, my

1750
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:31,759
Speaker 3: dog's broken. What happened? And I was one of those guys.

1751
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 3: I got to be the best. That's just me. I

1752
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 3: mean I I put in tons of training and anything

1753
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 3: anything I do, I want to be really good at it.

1754
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I want the best dog, and this

1755
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 3: is pissing me off. And lo and behold he said,

1756
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 3: don't worry about it, just like I would tell a

1757
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 3: new handler. Now we'll fix it. Not a big deal.

1758
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 3: So we did a whole lot of stuff muzzle. We

1759
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,640
Speaker 3: didn't have under garments back then or prosthetics, but we

1760
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 3: did a lot of things to civil him up and

1761
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:06,560
Speaker 3: to get him that way, and the next apprehension that

1762
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 3: was required of him, he did a great joint for it,

1763
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 3: and after that after that, because he was such a

1764
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:17,879
Speaker 3: strong bitter and he had this natural reflex of biting

1765
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 3: and shaking, and so I had to have really good

1766
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 3: control over him because he was doing a lot of damage.

1767
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 3: And there's a thing called the thirteenth floor, if I

1768
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 3: should even be getting into this, but where the guy

1769
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 3: is submitted to a hospital. It's a jail ward, but

1770
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 3: it's a hospital, and a lot of his bites were

1771
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 3: turring into that, and the sergeants looking at me like,

1772
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 3: what are you doing? Are you like leaving him on

1773
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,880
Speaker 3: a bite forever? I go, No, I'm not. I mean

1774
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 3: he's coming right off. So they actually assigned a season

1775
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,760
Speaker 3: handler with me to keep an eye on me. I'm

1776
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:52,880
Speaker 3: brand new, you know, And I'm.

1777
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 2: Like, because this dog's doing too much damage.

1778
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, and I'm like, he's a great dog, but

1779
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 3: he's like, I'm calling him right off, like boom. A

1780
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 3: couple of seconds, and then he saw an apprehension and

1781
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 3: looks at me and he says, you got better control

1782
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,759
Speaker 3: anybody in the unit. He says, your dog's popping right off.

1783
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:12,080
Speaker 3: He just bites hard.

1784
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1785
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 3: So I had to realize that and and you know,

1786
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 3: do things accordingly. I mean, I have to maintain really

1787
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:19,679
Speaker 3: good control over them.

1788
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 1: It was an interesting point you raised a minute ago

1789
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 1: when I was talking about these guys. I various buddies

1790
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 1: of mine talk about these dudes that like make these

1791
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: uh defense dogs. It's an interesting point you make that

1792
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: if you're selling someone a dog that's supposed to protect

1793
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 1: their family, how do you ever really know that you've

1794
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 1: only had you've only had them being training until you

1795
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: take them out to attack someone. You could have that

1796
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 1: thing sitting around for five years thinking it's some big,

1797
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 1: bad attack dog.

1798
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 2: But that dog has never attacked anybody.

1799
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 3: Right, And that's my whole thing. You know, that brings

1800
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:55,479
Speaker 3: me in.

1801
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 2: It's like an interesting idea that.

1802
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:00,600
Speaker 3: Brings me into this. Here's what's real edible to that.

1803
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 3: There was a time when the guys in the SWAT

1804
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 3: unit we weren't getting along very well with SWAT. There

1805
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 3: was a lot of egos going on. Now, when I

1806
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 3: left we're golden. We like love each other. We work

1807
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 3: together with them, but there was like a competition thing.

1808
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,679
Speaker 3: You know, canine is getting all these bodies, they're doing

1809
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,640
Speaker 3: all this stuff and that's a swat caper. That's not

1810
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:26,880
Speaker 3: a canine caper, and this kind of silly stuff. So

1811
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 3: we had to get through that. But as they developed,

1812
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:32,839
Speaker 3: for some reason, they started doing some work with Delta

1813
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:36,000
Speaker 3: and some of these other high speed units, because you know,

1814
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:38,640
Speaker 3: laped SWAT's great, they're like one of the best in

1815
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 3: the country, but they're doing all this advanced stuff all

1816
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 3: the time. And Delta their teams are married with a

1817
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:49,679
Speaker 3: canine guy like Laso Los Angeles County Sheriffs. Their canines

1818
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,680
Speaker 3: are part of SWAT l a p D. Swat and

1819
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:57,679
Speaker 3: canine are different different entities, So we don't work together

1820
01:30:57,720 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 3: per se like that. We do train together, we do

1821
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 3: work together, but we're not married up like that. Yeah,

1822
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 3: not military or like LIS. So when they get a

1823
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 3: swat call, canine is there all the time with us,

1824
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 3: it's going to be a special event. So yeah, with

1825
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 3: that being said, after they did this training with Delta,

1826
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 3: they says, we want a swat dog. This kind of

1827
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 3: goes into what you're saying, what's a swat dog. All

1828
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 3: of our dogs are swat dogs. Our dogs are always

1829
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 3: there for you, you know, and we'll always pick a

1830
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 3: certain dog that might be better for a certain incident, right,

1831
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 3: I mean, if I need a bigger, more powerful dog

1832
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 3: at this certain location.

1833
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna understand what you're saying. Who was saying they.

1834
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: Wanted a swat dog, our swat unit, your swat want.

1835
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 3: Wanted a specific swat dog, signed a swat.

1836
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 2: That they picked up off from the deltagether.

1837
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 3: Yes, And I'm thinking, and I knew it was coming,

1838
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 3: and I said, well I go the only I go.

1839
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 3: They wanted to go in training and all that. I said, Well,

1840
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:00,839
Speaker 3: the reason that our dogs are swat dog is because

1841
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 3: they've been out in the street for a year and

1842
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 3: most of them had about forty fifty apprehensions already. Now

1843
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 3: for you to have a swat dog that's going to

1844
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,640
Speaker 3: prove you right and not fail you when everything's on

1845
01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:14,920
Speaker 3: the line, how are you going to make that happen.

1846
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 3: You've got to be a handler for a while, so

1847
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 3: you're trying to reinvent the wheel. Our dogs are going

1848
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 3: to take care of business. We're going to train with you,

1849
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 3: we're gonna do so we mixed it, but they wanted

1850
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:27,400
Speaker 3: that swat dog thing, and it kind of goes in

1851
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 3: line with he's not proven. You know, I can do

1852
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 3: all the training in the world. Here's your swat dog.

1853
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:36,320
Speaker 3: It looks great out in the field, muzzle work, bite work, whatever,

1854
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 3: But is he really going to take care of business?

1855
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 1: This is the thing that This is the thing I

1856
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:44,320
Speaker 1: find with friends of mine that have dog hunting dogs,

1857
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:48,320
Speaker 1: as you got, there's like the hunting dogs that it's

1858
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 1: just all training. It's like putting pen raised birds out

1859
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 1: and little meadows and the dog knows he's going to

1860
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,680
Speaker 1: find something in ten seconds. Right, It's like that's all

1861
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: that ever lived. And then you got dogs that have

1862
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:06,800
Speaker 1: been hunting for real yep. And when I whenever I

1863
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,599
Speaker 1: hear about all my field trial this and field try that,

1864
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 1: I just.

1865
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:13,599
Speaker 2: Like, I don't I don't care, right, I don't care.

1866
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 1: Like the dog that's been out doing the real deal

1867
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 1: stuff in the real world.

1868
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 2: That's interesting, right.

1869
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 3: Well, you know we had the same thing. I mean,

1870
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 3: there's like a lot of canine trials all over the place,

1871
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 3: not all over, but you know, they and our guys

1872
01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:30,439
Speaker 3: didn't really compete very much. And them sometimes they would

1873
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 3: and they may not even do very well in them,

1874
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 3: but they're competing against dot has maybe had one bite

1875
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:39,920
Speaker 3: and they're five years in the job. Uh, And now

1876
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 3: you're competing with this guy that's had like thirty forty

1877
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 3: in the year or fifty or more whatever. You know,

1878
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 3: I had one hundred and twenty one bodies one year.

1879
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:52,839
Speaker 3: That's a lot of that's a lot of searching. Wow,

1880
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:57,160
Speaker 3: in our heyday and back in the day, forty percent

1881
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 3: of them got bit. That was standard in the end

1882
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 3: of tree. Now that will get you fired, you know.

1883
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 3: Now the bait ratio is looked at.

1884
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: So you had a year, you caught one hundred and

1885
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 1: twenty people and forty bytes.

1886
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what like this.

1887
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:15,920
Speaker 1: Kind of kind of final final is question here? What

1888
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:17,400
Speaker 1: is the dog getting out of this?

1889
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:18,720
Speaker 3: Do?

1890
01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:22,760
Speaker 2: I mean? Like, what what drives that dog to want

1891
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 2: to catch a person?

1892
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 3: Well, it starts from this little toy here. That's a

1893
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 3: piece of prey object. Do It's just a toy, just

1894
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 3: the can with a rope and I use a lot

1895
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 3: of it. And you know this is what we train. Okay,

1896
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,480
Speaker 3: I mean it's not only it, but it's the natural instinct,

1897
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 3: the predatory and most dogs have it, even your little

1898
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 3: Pucci dogs. They have some kind of prayer, pray in them,

1899
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:51,679
Speaker 3: you know, but some of them obviously have a lot

1900
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:55,640
Speaker 3: more genetically predisposed for all that. Yeah, you know, that's

1901
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 3: like the detection dog. They do everything for this. This

1902
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,360
Speaker 3: is a reward system, which be a tennis ball or

1903
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 3: a calm, a jew toy, whatever it might be. But

1904
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:07,560
Speaker 3: the dog's hooked on this, and you know, when he

1905
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 3: bites a man, it's just a bigger version of this.

1906
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 1: Really, you know, it's not like he's like he wants

1907
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:14,639
Speaker 1: because yeah, he's got no concept of justice.

1908
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:19,200
Speaker 3: No, not at all. I mean, although there is something

1909
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:23,439
Speaker 3: to say about protection of the handler and all that.

1910
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:25,040
Speaker 2: They oh you think, okay, that's a factor.

1911
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,160
Speaker 3: I think there is some of that, and I'm not

1912
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 3: so sure how much with every police dog. But for

1913
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 3: a home dog, let's say, you're going to see some

1914
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 3: of that, like I saw it in my mouth, like

1915
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 3: we talked about, I can't. He's not totally the most

1916
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:39,760
Speaker 3: trustable dog. He's got a lot of guardiness in him,

1917
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 3: and he's very guardian to the family. I see, and

1918
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:44,559
Speaker 3: once I get someone to know him. He's totally cool.

1919
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 3: But I found out the hard way that I got

1920
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:47,679
Speaker 3: to watch him.

1921
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: So one of your apprehension dogs could develop a professional

1922
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 1: like or develop a personal relationship where they are in

1923
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 1: some part motivated, you know, texting their handle.

1924
01:35:58,360 --> 01:36:00,960
Speaker 3: It's a really good question because the way that I

1925
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 3: preach to guys and this is you can tell them

1926
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 3: all day long. It says, you know, for the most part,

1927
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 3: this is a working dog and he's not a pet,

1928
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 3: and the worst thing you can do, really, I think,

1929
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 3: is to treat him totally like a pet. First of all,

1930
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 3: you want to contain that drive. The dog stays in

1931
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 3: the kennel when it's working, and of course you want

1932
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:22,600
Speaker 3: to bring him out, socialize them and all that. But

1933
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 3: when he becomes too much of a family dog, There's

1934
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:26,559
Speaker 3: been a lot of times when that's bites in the

1935
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 3: butt because the dog will perceive something, you know, maybe

1936
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 3: a neighbor will come over and do something or move

1937
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 3: or make some kind of furtive movement, and next thing

1938
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 3: you know, he gets grabbed by this police dog and

1939
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 3: the lawsuit happens, you know, and I've got stories about that.

1940
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,599
Speaker 3: So you got to be careful about that stuff. You know.

1941
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 3: I mean, it's safer just to treat him what he is.

1942
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:52,920
Speaker 3: He's a police dog. He goes in the kennel, he

1943
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 3: goes to work days off, bring him out, run him around,

1944
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 3: have fun with him, play with him, do some toy

1945
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 3: work with him. Whatever. But he's his job is to

1946
01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 3: catch bad guys. Yea, and some.

1947
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:04,759
Speaker 2: Dogs never like that dog.

1948
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 1: You know, the dog's not angry when it goes at somebody.

1949
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good point. So when you are training

1950
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,559
Speaker 3: a dog to bite in the beginning as a puppy,

1951
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 3: they're biting out of fun. You start off, you know,

1952
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:21,080
Speaker 3: maybe with a jew toy. You know dogs like you know,

1953
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 3: so big, you know, three months old. You got him

1954
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 3: on a little jew toy. He's having fun. You're playing

1955
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 3: with him, and he's biting. And that's how you want

1956
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 3: to bring a dog up. You don't want to do

1957
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:33,599
Speaker 3: what it's called like the old sentry dogs where they

1958
01:37:33,640 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 3: treat teach a dog to bite out of aggression and

1959
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 3: sometimes even out of defense and fear. When a bite,

1960
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 3: when a dog is biting out of defense and fear,

1961
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 3: he's he's unreliable because he's not biting out of fun.

1962
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 3: The aggression will come later. You know, you want to

1963
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 3: build aggressions to where he's biting out of fight, but

1964
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 3: that's later on, if that makes sense. So you do

1965
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,720
Speaker 3: that too soon and the dog can be can be

1966
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 3: very understand on and.

1967
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:03,440
Speaker 1: A dog it's aggressive as a youngster and bite.

1968
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 2: You're not gonna tell.

1969
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 3: A toy he's coming at you, he's biting him. You

1970
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:09,080
Speaker 3: have him an a lee, you let him run around,

1971
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 3: the toy in his mouth, you grab it again, you play tug.

1972
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:13,360
Speaker 3: You work on the bite, you work on the grip,

1973
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:15,640
Speaker 3: you get all those things. Then you develop into a

1974
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 3: bigger tug. And as a dog gets older and he

1975
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:20,759
Speaker 3: has his adult teeth and you bring in the sleeve

1976
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 3: and then you graduate from the sleeve to the bite

1977
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 3: suit and you bring him along that way. So by

1978
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 3: the time he's nine months old, he's like on his way.

1979
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:31,439
Speaker 3: You know, he saw he's got a nice bite. He's

1980
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 3: biting for the right reason. You know, he's not biting

1981
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 3: out of you know, I wanted to just kill everybody.

1982
01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:39,160
Speaker 3: It's a fun thing. Tug award and all that stuff.

1983
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 3: That makes sense.

1984
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 1: So have you did you ever lose a dog?

1985
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:45,200
Speaker 2: Do you ever have a dog get shot in a

1986
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 2: line of duty.

1987
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:51,519
Speaker 3: I've been around it. Yeah, that that h quick story.

1988
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,519
Speaker 3: I was a new handler. I wasn't in the street yet.

1989
01:38:54,840 --> 01:39:03,559
Speaker 3: I was still in training and we had a dog.

1990
01:39:04,280 --> 01:39:08,040
Speaker 3: Uh the radio, I was talking about John Hall and

1991
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:09,720
Speaker 3: he was a season handler. He's been in a lot

1992
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 3: of shooting. He's a lot of very violent time. Back then,

1993
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 3: we had a it was a traffic stop by two

1994
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 3: motor cops, pulled two Hispanics over and he's going to

1995
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 3: give him a ticket, but he had no idea. They

1996
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,760
Speaker 3: just robbed a bank. Oh or a store. They robbed

1997
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 3: a store, so they're thinking shit, you know. They came

1998
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:33,360
Speaker 3: out of the car, shots fired, pursue him, help call,

1999
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 3: and they bail out into a perimeter in West LA

2000
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 3: which is a really high end area of LA, and

2001
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 3: canines called. So we're all the whole units and route where.

2002
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:44,640
Speaker 3: You know, back then we didn't use SWAT. It was

2003
01:39:44,680 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 3: everything was patrol. The unit was a lot newer than it,

2004
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 3: you know is now. John Hall shows up with his

2005
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:55,600
Speaker 3: dog and I think it was another canine. I was

2006
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 3: on the other block side of the block searching, and

2007
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 3: while we're about halfway in, maybe an hour into it,

2008
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,639
Speaker 3: I hear the shots fired go off, and the help

2009
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:06,599
Speaker 3: call comes out and I can hear the shooting going on.

2010
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 3: And what happened was he went in there and there

2011
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 3: was a sergeant, a canine sergeant, Mark Mooring was on

2012
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,800
Speaker 3: his search team as his backup within a couple of

2013
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 3: patrol cops. The dog entered the garage and then he

2014
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 3: was ambushed right away. The dog is on the bit,

2015
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 3: he's already shot in the neck. The dog is but

2016
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:29,120
Speaker 3: he's still taking care of business. And now John's having

2017
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 3: a gunfight with the second suspect and he gets hit

2018
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 3: in the hand, transitions to his other hand and ends

2019
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:37,639
Speaker 3: up taking down the suspect, and then Mark Mooring shot

2020
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 3: one of them two and then Liberty was still on

2021
01:40:41,439 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 3: the bike finally released and is led out right there.

2022
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:48,280
Speaker 3: Oh god, so she died. And that dog was really

2023
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 3: sad because he raised that dog pup. It was one

2024
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:52,760
Speaker 3: of the dogs he raised from a good breeder and

2025
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:58,719
Speaker 3: trained all you did, all the training. We've had dogs stabbed.

2026
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 3: We had a dog, really nice dog apprehended somebody in

2027
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of inside of a building and the guy

2028
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 3: pulled out a knife and stabbed him.

2029
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 2: Killed it, killed him.

2030
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 3: There was another one. We ended up actually changing policy

2031
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:15,840
Speaker 3: on this one. Salabadaca had a dog or a Newton

2032
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:18,439
Speaker 3: a vision and very sad too. He had a really

2033
01:41:18,479 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 3: good dog, Marco. This dog was a nice dog. A

2034
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 3: lot of apprehensions been in gunfights with him. And they

2035
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 3: had a guy under the crawl space and he was

2036
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:29,559
Speaker 3: wanted for like a burglary or something like a low

2037
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:33,680
Speaker 3: great felon. He wouldn't come out, and this when we

2038
01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 3: changed our tactics, you know. So he sent his dog

2039
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:38,720
Speaker 3: under the house. Well, the guy was ready for it,

2040
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,639
Speaker 3: and he wrapped himself with an army jacket. He took

2041
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 3: the bite. He had a screwdriver and he shanked him

2042
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:48,599
Speaker 3: behind his head several times and Sal heard the whining

2043
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 3: dog came off, the bidy came out, and then he's

2044
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,640
Speaker 3: in his arms like, you know, laying there. It was

2045
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:56,880
Speaker 3: kind of neat because the airship they would never do

2046
01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:00,720
Speaker 3: this today. The airship now, this is a you know,

2047
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 3: a rough area of Newton Division residential area. I think

2048
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:10,680
Speaker 3: it was like gauge and it was a fiftieth in

2049
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 3: some street Broadway or something. The airship landed in the

2050
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 3: middle of the street, picked the dog up and flew

2051
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 3: him to the vet in West La. Oh really pretty badass?

2052
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 3: Do No, he died. Yeah, we all showed up at

2053
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 3: the vet and seals and tears. You know, that's a

2054
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 3: hardcore guy and he's crying.

2055
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 2: But they get guys get closer.

2056
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. I cried like a baby when my dog passed

2057
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:37,760
Speaker 3: away at home. He got blown and I had my

2058
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:40,200
Speaker 3: two boys with me, and I'm like Jesus, losing my shit.

2059
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, so what's your business now?

2060
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:48,120
Speaker 3: Man? So I do I do a lot of you know,

2061
01:42:48,120 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 3: I started my business, you know, like in twenty ten,

2062
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 3: and basically we were getting Even before I started my business,

2063
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:57,719
Speaker 3: we would get called to help other agencies do training.

2064
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 3: It would be on duty stuff. It was just kind

2065
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 3: of mundane tactics and stuff like that. But then I

2066
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 3: noticed as I was training, I couldn't do it. When

2067
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:10,920
Speaker 3: I started my business, I wanted to offer advanced tactical training.

2068
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 3: That was kind of my thing. But I soon found

2069
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:16,439
Speaker 3: out that I couldn't because I started in twenty ten,

2070
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 3: because most apartments weren't doing anything what we were doing.

2071
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:23,320
Speaker 3: They weren't doing off lead work, they weren't using the

2072
01:43:23,360 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 3: caller like I use it. The caller was more used

2073
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 3: like a punishment device and not a way to communicate,

2074
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 3: which you probably heard that from other guys right in

2075
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:33,479
Speaker 3: the bird world, you know, not using the caller properly

2076
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 3: causing all kinds of issues. There was a lot of

2077
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,599
Speaker 3: that going on. So I developed the knee Caller Course,

2078
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 3: a five day course for units to get the dogs

2079
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 3: to work off lead and do it the right.

2080
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:46,439
Speaker 2: Way, give them directions from a college.

2081
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:48,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just I got to the point where I

2082
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 3: developed the class over a period of time through some

2083
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 3: trials and tribulations that I got to really solid class

2084
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:56,599
Speaker 3: now that I can take ten guys and get them

2085
01:43:56,640 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 3: pretty much going as long as they're certified the street.

2086
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 3: So that's primarily what I do. But I also have

2087
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 3: contracts with a few agencies that I do their maintenance training. Okay,

2088
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 3: and but I'm slowing down, you know, I'm pushing sixty

2089
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 3: nine now and my wife wants me to not be

2090
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 3: gone so much.

2091
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:17,760
Speaker 2: You don't deal in dogs, I have.

2092
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:20,720
Speaker 3: I don't do that. I have done some patrol classes,

2093
01:44:21,439 --> 01:44:25,559
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty expensive, so it's really not you know,

2094
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:29,000
Speaker 3: for my time. They can probably do a better job

2095
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:31,680
Speaker 3: going to a vendor and getting their patrol done in

2096
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:32,599
Speaker 3: a group of guys.

2097
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what's the name of your how do

2098
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 2: you work?

2099
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:38,760
Speaker 3: Just under dog roller tactical canine tactical tactical K nine

2100
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 3: And uh, yeah, it's going good. It's been a great

2101
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:45,720
Speaker 3: it's been a great, been a great, great career, great job.

2102
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:47,599
Speaker 3: And I love what I'm doing.

2103
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:50,280
Speaker 2: So and and just to be clear, you keep a

2104
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:51,519
Speaker 2: couple of pet dogs around.

2105
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:54,320
Speaker 3: And I keep a couple of pet dogs around. Yeah

2106
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 3: they're painting in the butt. But yeah, trying to do

2107
01:44:57,400 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 3: a little more traveling now and all that stuff. But

2108
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:01,600
Speaker 3: and I got I brought two other guys on that

2109
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:03,640
Speaker 3: are going to be doing a lot more work so

2110
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 3: I can field more stuff. Guys that I trust that

2111
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:08,839
Speaker 3: are going to do the same thing I do.

2112
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 2: Do you ever think about raising a bird dog?

2113
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 3: No, but I've worked with them. It's pretty interesting.

2114
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:17,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be interested to see if like, I'd be

2115
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,479
Speaker 1: interested to see if you you.

2116
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:21,120
Speaker 2: Know, if you worked with a bird dog, what the

2117
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 2: result would be.

2118
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of the concepts are probably

2119
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:26,439
Speaker 3: And I've worked with them with the Marines, I learned

2120
01:45:26,439 --> 01:45:28,400
Speaker 3: a lot how they worked them. In fact, I ah

2121
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:30,559
Speaker 3: doing the bomb dogs doing the bomb dogs, and we

2122
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:32,799
Speaker 3: talked a lot about that, Like here's a quick story

2123
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:36,640
Speaker 3: when I first saw them working in Pendleton and then

2124
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:39,599
Speaker 3: I did some work in Campla June. But they were doing.

2125
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:41,439
Speaker 3: What they were doing is we're teaching their dog to

2126
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:43,720
Speaker 3: go out and do the left and right hand. Soon

2127
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 3: those commands dog turn around, sid cast them left and

2128
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 3: right about one hundred and fifty hundred meters out. And

2129
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 3: they were using a reward system. And the reward system

2130
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 3: Tritronics used to make before it became a garment, they

2131
01:45:56,640 --> 01:46:00,600
Speaker 3: used to make a bird launcher or Yeah, what it

2132
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,479
Speaker 3: would do is it would it would be you could

2133
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:05,759
Speaker 3: hide it, put the bird in there in a cage,

2134
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 3: remotely press it, bird comes.

2135
01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 2: Out, you know a bird bird.

2136
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, bird launcher and for I guess the bird dog

2137
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:15,880
Speaker 3: guys re using it. Well, they took that same concept

2138
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 3: and they would put a toy in there, all right,

2139
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:21,719
Speaker 3: so the bomb odors over here. That's hidden over here,

2140
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:24,519
Speaker 3: so the dog would alert a passive alert because it's

2141
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 3: a bomb. They would just sit there and wait and

2142
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:28,920
Speaker 3: then boom. Pay them. Toy goes up in the air

2143
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:30,920
Speaker 3: and to get paid. That's the marker and all that

2144
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:33,320
Speaker 3: I'm watching them do this. I go, well, you know,

2145
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:35,880
Speaker 3: do you have any other method of paying? I said,

2146
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:39,680
Speaker 3: is that is that the marker called paying payment? You're

2147
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 3: paying them, Yeah, pay the pay the dog. Pay the dog,

2148
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:45,240
Speaker 3: especially in detection, pay him he's on order, throw the

2149
01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:48,040
Speaker 3: ball on top of his head, so he gets the marker.

2150
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 3: So he goes, oh yeah, yeah, works great. I go, well,

2151
01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:54,799
Speaker 3: I see a problem. I said, your dogs are alerting

2152
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:58,599
Speaker 3: on the bird launcher because the because the picture right.

2153
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:03,040
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I go, let's do an experiment. I go,

2154
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 3: put that bird launcher thirty yards over here or twenty

2155
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:10,360
Speaker 3: yards away from the bomb the source what you want

2156
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:13,519
Speaker 3: to find. And every one of those fuckers they went

2157
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:18,719
Speaker 3: in and they fringed, and they they got the bomb oder,

2158
01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:21,519
Speaker 3: but they left it and final on the bird launcher

2159
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:24,920
Speaker 3: because they know. So I said, you know, you've got

2160
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:28,000
Speaker 3: to You've got to vary everything right now. One way

2161
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:31,400
Speaker 3: to counter it, which they actually do now, is if

2162
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 3: you had like ten bird launchers and have the bomb

2163
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:38,479
Speaker 3: oder here so that they can't just find one. The

2164
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 3: primary scent is going to be the bomb odor. And

2165
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:46,240
Speaker 3: there's a lot of a lot of things that guys

2166
01:47:46,280 --> 01:47:49,200
Speaker 3: do where they mess things up like that. They don't

2167
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:52,519
Speaker 3: realize that they use one thing to bridge something, but

2168
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 3: then it costs them in another way, you know what

2169
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:55,519
Speaker 3: I mean.

2170
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 2: And part of your work is coming in troubleshooting.

2171
01:47:58,840 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can troubleshoot that stuff exactly. Sometimes handlers don't

2172
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 3: even know. I mean, simple little things like marking behavior.

2173
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you'll get I'll see a dog

2174
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:09,400
Speaker 3: doing a guy doing obedience with a dog, and every

2175
01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:11,559
Speaker 3: time he puts them on a sit, he sits and

2176
01:48:11,600 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 3: he jumps up in his face. And I said, well,

2177
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 3: you don't want him want to sol it down right,

2178
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,040
Speaker 3: you don't want that to happen. But what he does

2179
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:20,040
Speaker 3: is what he does is I watched him working them.

2180
01:48:20,439 --> 01:48:22,719
Speaker 3: The dog would sit and then every time he sits,

2181
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:25,639
Speaker 3: he pays him with the toy to jump up. And well,

2182
01:48:25,640 --> 01:48:28,960
Speaker 3: that's what he's doing, So stop get rid of that

2183
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 3: ball too much ballwork too, That's another thing. So you

2184
01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:34,600
Speaker 3: can identify things like that they don't even know. I

2185
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:39,120
Speaker 3: even told guys when I was working a dog, just

2186
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:41,600
Speaker 3: to drop your ego. I says, look, I got a

2187
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:44,720
Speaker 3: problem with this dog. What am I doing because this?

2188
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 3: And he says, you know, Doug you're doing X, Y

2189
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 3: and Z. Really I didn't even realize it, you know,

2190
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 3: So you just got to drop the ego and figure

2191
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,760
Speaker 3: out that, you know, you're doing something innately that you're

2192
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:58,559
Speaker 3: not even paying attention to that is causing a bad

2193
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:02,479
Speaker 3: reward for the dog or a bad marker. So sometimes

2194
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:05,360
Speaker 3: it's good for people to evaluate you, you know, like

2195
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 3: we're doing e caller work and we have this out here,

2196
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:11,760
Speaker 3: and you know, you'll see dogs really quick. It's like

2197
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:15,040
Speaker 3: in a dark environment, and they'll pick up on it

2198
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,800
Speaker 3: and they'll get maybe not even get hit with the stimulation,

2199
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 3: but when you call them off the bike, they're going

2200
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,000
Speaker 3: to the guy holding the caller. Really yeah, so then

2201
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:26,519
Speaker 3: you got to hide it or everybody has.

2202
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,560
Speaker 2: A tune in weird weird associations.

2203
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:31,680
Speaker 3: AFT man, you paint that picture and you've got to

2204
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:34,320
Speaker 3: be careful what picture you're painting. You always got to

2205
01:49:34,320 --> 01:49:36,679
Speaker 3: be aware of that, you know. And a new handler

2206
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 3: has a hard time because you know, I mean, I'm

2207
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 3: trained thousands and thousands of dogs and that's why they

2208
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:43,479
Speaker 3: hire me because I can see those things right away.

2209
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:46,600
Speaker 3: But it wasn't always that way, you know. It just

2210
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:49,760
Speaker 3: took a lot of experience. It's good.

2211
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 2: Well, Doug Roller, thanks for coming on the show.

2212
01:49:51,960 --> 01:49:54,559
Speaker 3: Man a pleasure, Thank you having me, and thank you

2213
01:49:54,680 --> 01:49:56,000
Speaker 3: all the people I know out there.

2214
01:49:56,200 --> 01:49:58,360
Speaker 1: Well, I bet you're going to get some emails people

2215
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:00,839
Speaker 1: want are going to ask you a bunch of dog questions.

2216
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:02,799
Speaker 3: Man, Well, it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure

2217
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 3: meeting you, and especially a shout out to the Task

2218
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:07,639
Speaker 3: Force heroes. That's how we meet.

2219
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:10,559
Speaker 2: Well, Task Force heroes.

2220
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:13,519
Speaker 3: Shane Shane Yate does a great job. You know, my

2221
01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:17,080
Speaker 3: my buddy j D. That got me to go. God

2222
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:19,680
Speaker 3: bless you. So thank you for coming on. Man, all right,

2223
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 3: thank you