WEBVTT - Farming While Black Part 2 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:13.440 Welcome back to Point of Origin, a podcast about the 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:22.720 world of food worldwide. I'm your host, Stephen Saderfield. This 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.360 is our very last episode of season one, and I 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.840 would like to thank every one of you for supporting 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.879 this podcast. It has been such enriching experience for me 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.960 as a host, to talk to so many people for 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.960 whom I have such great admiration, and to partner with 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.720 a company like I Heart Radio that helps amplify the 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.000 work that we'd like to see in the world. So 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.400 much gratitude to everyone who made this first season possible. 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.920 And before we close out on our final episode of 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.560 the season, part two of our series Farming Wild Black 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.760 and the second interview with my friend Gabrae al et En. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.520 In our discussion, there is a mention of racial violence 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.760 that could be a very upsetting story for some of 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.960 our listeners, so I'd like to mention that off top, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.560 and I would also like to say that if you're able, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.360 it is such a powerful story that I do believe 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.319 it will be worth your time. Again, i'd like to 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.200 thank you all for making the season possible. We are 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.840 already hard at work on the second season, and while 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.880 I've got you here, a gentle reminder that if you 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.720 are enjoying this podcast, the best way to ensure that 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.759 we continue to enjoy this platform and share these stories 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.399 as if you give us a five star review on iTunes. 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.480 Thank you so much for considering, and please enjoy Farming 0:01:47.480 --> 0:02:01.080 While Black Part two. Welcome back to Point of Origin. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:06.840 Today we are focusing on farming Wild Black the many 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:12.440 intricacies of blackness and African americanness in relationship to the land. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:18.079 Our next guest is the Associate Professor of Environmental Justice 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:24.040 at the University of Wisconsin Madison, Dr Monica White, is 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.240 also the author of an amazing book that was just 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.720 released in two thousand nineteen called Freedom Farmers, and we 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.000 will talk about all of the above today. Monica, thank 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.440 you so much for joining us on Point of Origin. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:42.680 Thank you for the invitation. It's sorry to be here 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:47.160 with you. Let's just get right into the book, Freedom Farmers, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:52.280 agricultural resistance, and the Black freedom Movement. There's a lot 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.840 to unpack in the book, a lot of amazing themes 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.399 around blackness and relationship to land. But before we get 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.359 into that, can you just tell us what you're impetus 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.120 for wanting to write this book was so I was 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.080 returning to Detroit to take care of my parents. I 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.400 was moving back to Detroit and needed a research topic. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.720 I was going to teach at Wayne State University. And 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:21.160 I knew that there was a robust black farmers movement 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.320 that had proceeded the two thousands and really wanted to 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.640 sort of capture that, and so joined and met Baba 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.720 Malika Kini to do some organizing around around the Detroit 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.840 Rebellion Conference and sixty seven Rebellions, sort of recognizing the 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.320 history of existence in the city. And I knew the 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.640 black folks have been growing food in Detroit for a 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.720 long time, my dad, my grandmother, and my sister, and 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.800 I knew that the scholarship that was coming out about 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.840 the movement about the return to food production were really 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.560 missing the black folks, you know, folks who looked like me. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.640 One of the sort of capture what was happening in 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.200 that moment, but then also finding that the current, at 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.680 least in the two thousand at that moment, needed a 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:09.360 historical frame that was different than what I found when 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.880 I looked up the scholarship on what do we know 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.000 about Black farmers? A lot of it came from a 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.679 deficit approach, and they talked a lot about slavery, tenant farming, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.599 sharecrofting in those exploitative conditions and relationships to the land, 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.640 or the way that agriculture used as suppressive. And yet 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.760 what I was hearing in Detroit was using agriculture the 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.760 strategy of resistance, resilience in other way for liberation, and 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.520 so I didn't hear it, and as are now recent 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.400 ancestor so any more ins instead, if there's a book 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.120 that you want to read, it hasn't been written, then 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.559 we're the ones who has to to write it. And 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.359 that's where the idea around freedom farmers came from. Knowing 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.839 that there had to be other reasons, other frames to 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.080 understand black folks in our relationship to the land, and 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:58.520 not seeing it written, but yet hearing him. You know, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.240 you hang out with generational or black folks with net 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.760 whose families never left to land, and you hear this 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.400 language of being able to feed myself and free myself 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.960 for every wental parents as I can free myself when 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.840 I can feed myself, and to hear how pul found 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.520 that statement was and yet not reading any scholarships to 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.160 elevate his philosophy. You know, I felt like this was 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.960 the perfect kind of a contribution um to how we 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.240 understand our relationship to food production and to the land 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:39.480 more generally. Absolutely so. Obviously in these more oppressive accounts 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.760 of our relationship to the land that are rooted and 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:48.479 enslavement have some generational or I guess, period specific elements 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:55.120 to them. Were you finding that this disposition of liberation 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.560 was more something about a recent generation or do you 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:04.000 feel that that has been present throughout but we just 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.320 haven't been exposed to that ideology? You know, yeah, thank 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.680 you for that question. I feel like I consist to 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.479 except found all kinds of ways to resist, and yet 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:18.320 our scholarship around resistance strategies has really come from universities, 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.760 and so there's been a disconnect between how people resist 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:26.960 and how people study resistance, and so occupying both spaces, right, So, 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.520 coming from a community known for resistance and resilience in 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.839 Detroit and also joining the academy and feeling like the 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.400 university tools could be useful for our liberation, I do 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.159 think that there have been all kinds of ways that 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.119 we've resisted that has been overlooked. So guess I wanted 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.480 to really sort of problematize the way we frame resistance. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.960 You know, we often think about protests, marches, and boycasts, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.480 and those are really almost the only ways that we 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.839 as theorists talk about what it means to resist. And 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.160 yet this current moment, it shows us other ways to resist. 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.120 And I'll just give one example. Here's this horrible situation 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.960 that comes Barbecue Betty right now at eleven people fired 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.440 up over this viral video from Oakland fired up their 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.200 grills tonight to take a stand. The group says they're 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.840 tired of people calling police prematurely. They are upset over 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.880 a confrontation at a barbecue at Lake Merit. It was 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.000 all caught on camera last month. The video is still 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.680 getting passed around the internet non stop tonight. What's going on? Nas? 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:35.000 You don't want she doesn't want to talk? Now it's 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.120 a link to having a chocolate grill in the park here. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.400 What kind of girl are you not allowed? And why 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.680 are you so bent out of shape over them being? 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.000 Because it causes extra money from our city and things. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.760 One children get injured because of it. So yet the 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:53.280 open community has just now celebrated a second celebration around 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.560 recognizing the potential calamity of the situation, but embracing that 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.680 as a celebration or blackness, and so are like the 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:05.440 scholarship is behind the ways that we resist and Freedom 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.360 Farmers was an effort to sort of show the links 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:13.200 between the historic resistance using food and food production. So 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.120 we talked about the seeds in our hair that we 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.840 carried over the Middle passages. We talked about the demand, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.480 our demand for provision grounds during slavery. We talked about marketing, 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.360 We talked about all the various ways historically bartering and 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.880 creating these spaces to celebrate culture or using food as 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.120 a part of that have been used historically as a 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.920 part of our our freedom strategy. I'm curious what you 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:41.040 think the role of some institutions have been in further 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:48.360 perpetuating this exploitative narrative, whether that be the university or 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.200 the food system, Like, what are some of those institutional 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:57.439 pressure points. Yeah, I just think everybody who's not basically 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.720 I mean not to be not just you know, not 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.199 a broad brush. I think that Samananda dj argues the 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.840 danger of a single story, right, So to come up 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.160 with a single story and it becomes easy to grab 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.719 ahold of it and then run with it. And so 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.040 those of us that are currently involved in dismantling that 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.920 single story historically, and I think that I can't point 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.959 to an institution that isn't responsible for oversimplifying Black folks 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.960 relation to the ships and through land. It's you know, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.480 the university, it's the add community, it's you know, in 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.560 some ways, it's even how we tell the story of 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.280 civil rights with no ill intention necessarily, right. I think 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.400 that you know, that danger of the single story means 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.880 that there's certain ideas that get shared, and then once 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.360 that is shared, it is assumed that's the only narrative. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.440 And there comes somebody like me who says that can't 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.800 be the only story. And so therefore, how do we 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.160 unearth some of the other ways to to to interrogate, 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.160 to scholarship, find the data to really make a different case. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.600 It was not just my research question was unearthed in 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.439 this movement. So I left Detroit and the Detroit last 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.760 community prostituting that was teach me language like through sovereignty, 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.080 food security. This wasn't something I had taken at school. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.080 I understood what it means to resist and said the 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.199 social movements and so marrying my understanding of social movements 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.959 and the Detroit Black communities for securities classes, her soon 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.800 of speech on food sovereignty really helped me see that 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.599 what they were doing wasn't new. It was just a 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.960 new in this moment in the particular rights because they 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.400 inherited a legacy of resistance and resilience using foods as strategy. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.840 And so that was really good. I was trying to capture. 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.000 But yes, if you think of which entity is guilty, 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.840 I don't know if one that isn't in attuchu wating 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.920 simness around agriculture as as oppressive and not just a 0:10:51.040 --> 0:11:02.360 last folks and talking about sovereign tee of food that 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:07.520 is really a conversation that is central to land. How 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.560 do you reconcile for black folks who are are with 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.920 you intellectually and saying like yeah, we you know, there 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.240 are many stories to be told about our relationship to 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.200 the land here, but one problem we don't have any land. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.040 Yeah you have great questions. Um, so absolutely, folks are 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.680 asking a question if it's My approach has always been 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.960 as an asset based approach, right, So I think that's 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.520 a different orientation that I take to scholarship, which is, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.800 every community has something upon which to build, what are 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.320 those assets? And then how to rebuild on that, which 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.720 I think is a different approach. So for me, every 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.480 community has something upon whished to build. And so if 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.680 I may not have access to land in terms of 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.000 land ownership, what are other ways that we can obtain 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.680 access to those message or mechanisms to to grow. My 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.400 dear friend Dr Cooper talks about individual ownership leads to 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:03.600 individual volner ability, and so collective ownership is an important 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.240 component to make sure that it's olidified. I just talked 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.240 to folks at the Prince Duty Theological Seminary, and these 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.040 are folks who run their own churches. And Reverend Hebrew 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.679 Brown talks about how black church ownership and the land 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.760 that black churches you know, have access to, is an 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.360 important part of like a land trust right. And so 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.400 what happens is we use the church own land as 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.640 a part of our food production, resurgence and reconnection in 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.319 those particular chimes of late and you know, I mean 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.400 I'm telling from a frame. You know, in Detroit, where 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.319 we have access to a lot of land, a lot 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.640 of that land is contaminated. And so how do we 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.560 restore the land, how do we share access? So you 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.359 talk about community lands trust, you talk about soil mediation, 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.400 and then for those who don't have access to land land, 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.520 they are all kinds of beautiful techniques of of growing 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:58.880 indoors that don't require a lot of money. But bots 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.480 are growing in you know, cut up tunated bottles on walls, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.400 you know. And so I think that there are lots 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.800 of ways, creative ways that folks are growing using various 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.840 medium like, you know, maybe a hydropondical, you know, something 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.480 along those lines. And there's the wine range of housefolks 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.120 accessing land. And so let's just be also clear figure 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.280 are still who like folks that are farming in the South, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.240 who have land in a generational that is you inherited 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.320 land and really trying to find some collective ways to 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.040 make sure that we retain actors to death which we 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:43.720 have without losing another angor welcome back to point of origin. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.440 Let's talk more about Detroit, because obviously you've learned a 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.760 lot there and it has been kind of an epicenter 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.679 for the revival of urban farming across the country. What 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:00.160 are the factors environmental factors of Detroit I'm talking are 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.600 like socially and culturally that have made it so amenable 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.600 to this urban farming movement. For the black folks who 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.920 were in the South, who contested any form of this 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.280 racialized exploitive relationship to land, there would be threatened, their 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.320 lives would be threatened. At night, they would get the 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.680 Birmingham and by more in that we're in Detroit. So 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.720 there was a really clear line between Detroit and Alabama 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.440 in terms of the migration. And I would also argue 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.040 based on what farmers and the reason told me, especially 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.440 about what we're happening in leth County, where black folks 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.840 were especially politicized, right radically politicize whole many of whom 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.600 ended up in Detroit. So one I think that there 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:46.960 was a political connection that exists between Alabama and Detroit. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.440 There really hasn't been examined. To my preference. I feel 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.480 like there's a lot that can be examined in terms 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.520 of understanding s particular black radical orientation in Detroit. Additionally, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.240 we took our black out of gudeology, but we also 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.280 took our feed and our knowledge of food production, and 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:09.080 so our generation was returning where our parents had migrated 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.120 we wanted to make sure that our children and access 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.680 in nature and rich food, and so that agricultural knowledge 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.920 was one generation removed. But we also knew that you 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.800 are clearly providing for ourselves and themselves. And so I 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.760 do think that there was some as a strategy, some 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.680 connection that wasn't too far fetched. And I also think 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.320 that for me personally to try to put the world 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.840 on wheels, and once the automobile crisis collapse, then folks 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:38.720 were forced to sort of think about, well, what do 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.760 we know, what do we remember? What can we reconnect 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.080 as a strategy to build resilient communities around food production? 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.480 And then that conversation the food is just ever present, Um, 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.200 how do we make sure that we not only feed 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.080 our families, but feed and build our communities and build 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.480 community health and wellness. And so I just feel like 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:03.280 there are those kind of ideas that we're perfect termination 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.520 for what we see happening in Detroit now. Definitely, and 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.680 I totally support your continued work in following the trajectory 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.080 of the black radicals from the South to Detroit. I 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.520 think that is super interesting. I want to ask you 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:23.560 about land reparation. You know it is somewhat being censored politically, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.400 at least in a way that it hasn't um in 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.000 my lifetime. What are your ideas about a land based 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.200 reparation in terms of effective policy, like how it could 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.960 actually happen, and or whether or not you feel this 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.640 is the right kind of prioritization for advocates of food 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.440 justice and environmental justice. So I would say that the 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:53.240 scholarship around land dispossession, especially a black folks, we have 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.440 to respond to that right in order for a society 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.640 to move forward. I do think that reconciling task historical 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.320 wrongs for the stolen labor and the stolen land, including 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.520 you know, indigenous First Nations folks, But that has to 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.600 be a part of how we move forward as a whole. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.639 I don't know what mechanism, what form that take. I 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.720 think that any time a nation and a world has 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:27.920 created wealth and there are communities that have suffered from 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.800 that wealth of the extraction of those resources, those people, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.840 those riches, that land, there has to be some reconciling 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.080 of that, and reparations is an important part of that conversation. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.199 I think that the case can absolutely be made and 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.160 has been made more distinctively now in this Sutork moments 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.320 than I've ever seen, you know, supporting black lead institutions, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.159 both of the educational nature like in land Grand institutions, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.680 and supporting black lead organizations that are working to respond 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.440 to the needs of folks around food and land. Outside 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.720 of that, I don't know enough I've read about it, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.000 but I also love that qualified to speak on the distermination. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.400 What that looks like, well, oftentimes that is the wisest 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:15.400 answer to give, and I completely um, that is totally adequate. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.120 One last question for you, and again it is about 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.399 your your latest book, Freedom Farmers. Such a powerful book. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.200 I mean really, I think you know, I feel pretty 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.399 well versed in a lot of these conversations, but you know, 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.600 you had such clarity from the onset and trying to 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.200 further ideas around black folks relationship to the land, especially 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.399 African Americans. So I'm wondering, do you have any specific 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:48.000 hopes or directions for for the readers of this text. Yes, 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.720 so I wrote this book for you, I wrote this 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.480 book for us. I wrote this book because I wanted 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.639 to give us some sense that we don't have to 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.280 reinvent a strategy that we can inherit the legacy of 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.360 our an sensors and previous generations in terms of how 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.560 do we get free? And so for me, the book 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.120 and all that it took to write it and all 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.200 of the intentions around it were really so that we 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.520 could think about our relationship connections to the land, our 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.240 responsibility to the environment, right to the planet, and our 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.280 connection and responsibility to each other. And so for me, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:28.560 a great outcome would be to allow the book to 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.400 complicate what we thought our relationship was, use it as 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.399 um inspiration for us to reconnect to the land and 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.080 to each other, and to figure out what this new generation, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.760 what this generation commitment will be in this legacy as 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.000 you read, so, I'm excited to see what we do 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.919 in this generation as we're grappling with how do we 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.679 make sure that our communities are cared for and using 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.919 food at the beginning conversation, but connecting the conversations around 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.280 food to conversations of land, conversations of a education, conversations 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.480 with healthcare. But just because this is our history, this 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.280 this is ours, and I want us to own it. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.159 I want us to reclaim that. I want us to 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.080 embrace it at least figure out a way forward. Amen 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.600 to all that. Well, thank you so much for this resource. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:21.000 Looking forward to your continued research and publishings on this topic. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:26.400 Monica White, Associate Professor of Environmental Studies at the University 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:32.000 of Wisconsin and Madison and author of Freedom Farmers, Agricultural Resistance, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.000 and the Black Freedom Movement. Thank you for joining us 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.280 today on point of origin. I really really appreciate it. 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.040 Thank you so much. Fry too myself. Thank you. All right, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:21:07.320 I'll talk to you soon. Welcome back to point of origin. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.560 Today we have a very special guest from Holly Springs, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.600 North Carolina, just outside of Raleigh, Gabrielle Etienne, who is 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.760 a cultural preservationist, which is the perfect umbrella term for 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:29.199 her as she is a gardener, farmer, cook, community organizer. Gabrielle, 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.720 thank you so much for joining us today on point 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.359 of origin. Hi, thank you for having me, which is 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:40.800 really exciting. Of course, so today we're talking to a 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:46.879 really cross section of black folks who are involved in 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:52.040 agriculture and different capacities across the US, and we wanted 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.480 to talk to you because well a couple of reasons. 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.199 But first of all, I just really as a as 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.520 a fan of your work, love, the way that you 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:09.200 express your relationship to the land, and how your embodiment 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.959 on the land in the garden, when you're harvesting, when 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:17.080 you're cooking, just feel so grounded. I wanted to talk 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.040 to you about your relationship to the land and how 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:24.920 you started to develop this practice. Mm hmm, okay. I 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:32.080 don't feel like I'm anything new. I am really standing 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:33.960 kind of on the shoulders of a lot of women, 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:38.800 so thank you for that. My relationship to the land 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.240 really kind of jumped off when I was living in 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.880 New York, kind of seeking connection. I was really homesick, 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.200 and I would come home a lot, and every time 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:54.919 I would come home, I would get in the garden 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.280 with my grandfather and with his brother, my great uncle, Andrew, 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.840 and um. I started to learn these things about my family, 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:08.960 about my family's history, about you know, just access just 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:14.919 our beautiful relationship with our land and the land around 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.680 here within like a ten mile radius of where I 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.760 lived for a long time, and I just started feeling 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.960 way more grounded, way more connected to who I am, 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.080 but also to like who my family is and the 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:38.520 importance of our own stories A little I guess history is. 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.680 I was working in fashion for a while and I 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.320 ended up just feeling some of the traumas of working 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:48.920 like corporate, working in New York, working in you know, 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:54.360 just fast paced corporate America. And when I transitioned out 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:58.200 of fashion, I started working in food and I was 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:02.240 working on the line I'm in um this gastro pub 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:04.520 and the leat packing, and I was also doing a 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.560 lot of food storytelling for different brands and chefs, and 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:12.200 one of those chefs was J. J. Johnson, and his 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:17.600 work kind of aligned with my family's work in a 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:20.320 way that I didn't expect. And the more I started 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:22.920 to uncover with the work I was doing with him, 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.320 the more, you know, I bring stuff home. And I 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.960 remember my grandfather's brother, older brother Herbert, when I showed 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.840 him as rice that was from Trinidad, that was an 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.480 African strain of rice. I remember him being like, oh, 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.200 I remember when Grandpa John used to grow rice in 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:42.800 the yard and we used to harvest it. And he 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:47.600 talked about winnowing, and he talked about you know, his 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.080 his memories were vague because he was a little boy, 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:52.399 but he remembered these key things and that's how the 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.800 rice got on the table. And that really like made me. 0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:01.000 It just woke something up in me around like place, 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.240 and I started to think about, oh wow, well what 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.119 were we before we were here too. To have that 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.760 knowledge in that technology, you have to you know, be 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:15.720 in certain areas. So just discovery after discovery kind of 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.800 brought me back here because I was really focused on 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:23.119 telling other folk stories and digging up this history through food, 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:26.720 through food, research through food kind of art and you 0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:33.560 know development. Thank you for sharing that. That is a 0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:39.200 very dense journey that I would like to further unpacked. 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:43.920 So J J. Johnson, if people don't know, is a 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:50.800 young ish millennial chef in New York. He just opened 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:58.520 a new rice centric restaurant called Field Trip. And j 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:03.520 J also worked with at Cecil's, which is a pretty 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:09.480