WEBVTT - North Korea's Man in Spain 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 Hi, I'm Carol Masser and I'm Jason Kelly. Well, perhaps 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.320 you've noticed that North Korea it's been in the news 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.880 of late with Supreme Leader Kim Jong un rumored to 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.440 be in grave condition after heart surgery. Well, Jason, if 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.360 you want to get word on Kim's health, or let's say, 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.160 explore mining opportunities of the Hermit Kingdom, you really have 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.520 to start with one individual. We're gonna call him Alejandro 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:22.639 here in our introduction, and as you'll see later on 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.800 in this story, this is an individual who keeps shortening 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.720 his name. Well, he happens to live six thousand miles 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.080 from Pyongyang. He lives in Spain, yet not exactly a local, 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.320 and he's the only non Korean affiliated with the government. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.919 He began as a teenage fan boy of the socialist 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.320 state and over time developed ties to the regime. He 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.080 says he's the primary contact for anyone in the West 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.480 who wants to cold call North Korea, and Josh Dean 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:49.920 cold called him for the magazine and got one of 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.680 the strangest stories you can imagine North Korea's man in Spain. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.560 If you want to explore mining opportunities or get word 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.800 on Kim Jong UN's health. You start with Alejandro Kao Dibenos. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:07.160 He's only six thousand miles from Pyongyang. By Josh Dean, 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.280 the message from Dubai in late twenty eighteen wasn't unusual. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.240 It's just part of the day for Alejandro Kao Dibanos 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.400 to open his email and find some intrepid capitalist who 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.720 wants to do a little business in North Korea. Recently, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:23.959 there was the one from a guy in Hawaii who 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.720 wanted to open a McDonald's in Pyongyang. That's an easy No. 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.480 Privately owned businesses are forbidden in the Democratic People's Republic 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.440 of Korea. No McDonald's, no Kentucky Fried Chicken, no Burger King, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.000 Kaodbinos says. Every so often, it's the head of the 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.600 Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints in Spain 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.440 asking if it's finally all right to send over a 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.440 wave of white shirts carrying the Book of Mormon, even 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.200 though he knows that's a non starter. Only those religions 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.800 that existed in Korea before the d p r k's 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.640 formation in nineteen forty eight are allowed to operate in 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.080 the country. Sometimes a lead seems real enough that kaw 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.400 Dibinos can pass it up the ladder from his desk 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.520 in Tarragona on Spain's sunny east coast, to the North 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.520 Korean embassy in Madrid, or even to his contacts in Pyongyang. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.400 At first glance, the Dubai email was one of those. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.040 An Elena Sanchez was writing from an investment firm called 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.600 Baron Stone Capital. Her boss, Adrian Hong, hoped to meet 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.760 at the embassy to discuss investment opportunities, ideally in mining. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.400 It might seem strange that a banker in Dubai would 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.280 email a Spaniard to talk about investments in pyong Yang, 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.280 but such as the idiosyncrasy of doing business with North Korea, 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.679 I received this kind of request every day, Kao Dibonos 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.960 tells me one afternoon in November. Requests of late have 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.600 been more to address rumors that Supreme Leader Kim Jong 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.519 un was in grave condition after heart surgery. We're walking 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.600 around Tarragona during one of its infrequent rainy days. I'm 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.280 the only reachable person, he says. He means that literally. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.519 Kao di Bonos began as a teenage fanboy of North 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:06.000 Korea's socialist state and over time developed ties to the regime. 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.240 In two thousand two, after he'd spent more than a 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.320 decade as a volunteer, cheerleader and propagandist, the Nations Supreme 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.560 Leader Kim Jong Ill made him a special Delegate to 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:21.480 the Committee for Cultural Relations with Foreign Countries. Official diplomacy 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.400 is conducted through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and there 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.040 are envoys at the United Nations, but business, science, culture, sports, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.840 basically anything outward facing goes through the committee. As the 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.880 only non Korean affiliated with the government, Kau Dimanos says 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.480 he's the primary contact for anyone in the West who 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:45.120 wants to cold call North Korea. The woman in Dubai 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.760 said her boss was looking for investments in frontier markets. 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.160 Kao Debanos can help with the request like this. We 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.400 have many investment possibilities, he says, naming mindes, hotels, and 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.680 I t or perhaps you don't have a specific play 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.720 in this case, Caw Dibonos might arrange a meeting with 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.080 the Ministry of Foreign Trade. Even an American like me 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.760 can invest. If I'm willing to violate international sanctions, we 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.240 are happy to make business with you, he says. When 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.560 Kaw Dibanos dug into barren Stone, he couldn't find any 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.680 information on it. Sanchez was pushy too, She responded to 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.520 his chilly replies with what felt like a bribe, an 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.599 offer to hire him as a consultant if he could 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.160 facilitate introductions at the embassy. She then announced that Hong 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.400 would soon be in Madrid and hoped to arrange a 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.280 dinner with cow Debonos and North Korea's ambassador. kW Debonos 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.120 says he notified the embassy of the inquiries and registered 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.640 his skepticism. He didn't recommend a meeting. A few weeks later, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.400 on February twenty second, twenty nineteen, Hong showed up anyway. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.400 When an embassy worker came to the door, Hong and 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.240 eight accomplices forced their way in for several hours. According 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.359 to news reports, Hong and his team, who claimed to 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.880 represent Free Josian, a North Korean dissident group, met a 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.480 to the staff. They isolated the only accredited North Korean 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.760 diplomat in the basement, where they put a hood over 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.040 his head and attempted to bully him into defecting. This 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.880 effort failed, and at around nine thirty p m. The 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.120 gang took laptops and flash drives, and fled in stolen 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.200 diplomatic cars. Media accounts speculated that the break in was 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.400 an attempt to disrupt the then upcoming nuclear talks between 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.919 President Trump and Kim Jong un in Vietnam. The group 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.880 had supposedly targeted Madrid because North Korea's taught negotiator, Kim 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.680 Yock Chol, was previously ambassador to Spain. North Korea had 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.560 no official comment. Kao Dominos theorizes it was the c 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.840 i A and tells me this was confirmed by friends 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.920 in the Spanish intelligence Service. The CIA has denied involvement. Hong, 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:51.440 sought by Spanish authorities on unspecified charges, is still at large. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.239 Kao Dominos assumes that interest in Hong will fade because 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.880 no one cares about the treatment of North Korean diplomats. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.880 He's also sure that the Sloppyists was a plan B. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.560 The real plan, he says, was that dinner Sanchez had 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.640 tried to set up It's easier and cleaner to kidnap 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.039 a diplomat leaving a restaurant, which means he might have 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.960 been snatched to Kao de Banos laughs and pats his belly. 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:20.000 He's a little plump. There's something vaguely ted cruzish about him. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.680 I'm too big, he says. They have to feed me 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.240 too much more important, He's a Spanish citizen and quasi famous. 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.520 Taking him would be bad pr I'm too much of 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:36.680 a public person. Alejandro ku Dibanos seems like a lot 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.240 of name, but it's actually shortened. The whole banana. Alejandro 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.640 cow Dibenos de Lessi Perez is on wieldy for daily 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.679 use and off brand, signifying the aristocratic lineage of Spain's 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.400 most famous socialist. He didn't grow up rich, but his 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.599 family was once powerful. He says. An ancestor conquered land 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.880 on the French border and claimed it for the Spanish king, 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.400 who rewarded with the title of Baron de Les. Caw 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.000 Dibanos as the eldest mill heir has claimed to this title, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.240 as well as Marques de Rosalmante, Conde de Argelejo and 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:15.080 Marques de Dies ma Ila Hinojosa. Today, the titles carry 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.160 no privileges. All the wealth is gone too. Because his 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.640 paternal grandfather blew the fortune on poor investments in gambling, 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.120 caw Dibanos could claim the honorifics but he'd have to 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.120 ask the king's permission and pay a fee. His father 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.600 was a chemist who married and raised his son in 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.560 a happy, middle class home. After high school, caw Dibonos 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.520 served three years as an MP in Spain's Air Force, 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.120 but the whole time his heart was in North Korea. 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.360 He has only honorary citizenship in the country, he says. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.640 To become a North Korean citizen, caw Dibanos would have 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.200 to renounce Spain, which would mean giving up a free 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.680 life on the Spanish coast and moving to the world's 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.080 most closed off country. This isn't a deal breaker for him. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.480 It's what I wanted since I'm thirteen, he says, over 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.480 a plate of vegetable paea. Caw Dibonos is vegetarian in 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.680 Tarragona's Old Quarter. During one of three days worth of 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.960 conversations in which he rhapsodizes about the famously brutal and 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.720 authoritarian regime, that's when he read about North Korea's particular, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.480 in his view, pure form of socialism and fell in love. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.240 At sixteen, he flew to peyong Yang, having saved up 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.720 for the flight by working at a gas station. I 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.080 found a very clean society with very nice people, he recalls, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.600 and then I made up my mind I want to 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.920 help Korea. His first step was to found the Korean 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.720 Friendship Association or kf AKAU. Dibinos persuaded high school Palace 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.679 to join, not out of a shared affinity for socialism, 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.400 but because he offered coca cola and karaoke at meetings. 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.600 His father didn't approve. He wanted to push me out 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:50.840 of home because he worried something will happen to the 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.120 family because of my work, Cau Dibanos says, I had 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.400 a tough time. It was a tough time to be 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.959 an aspiring socialist period. This was the early nineteen nine 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.160 d's when Eastern Europe was falling. I was the only 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.280 one going against direction, he says. In two thousand, Caw 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:12.600 Dibanos created North Korea's first official website, Korea dpr dot com, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.400 despite knowing just rudimentary web design, he says. This was 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.880 the country's only outwardly facing government side in English, he adds, 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.160 until it started its own in twenty twelve, meaning that 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.280 any Westerner who tried to contact North Korea online from 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.400 two thousand to twenty twelve was riding to one Guy 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.600 in Spain. Hundreds of thousands of people visited The Primitive 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.240 Side in its first year, occasionally overwhelming the limited band 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.719 with Ku Dibanos could afford on his monthly budget of 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:44.320 twenty euros. His work also attracted media attention, especially after 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.520 US journalists learned who was behind the Jankee North Korean 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.520 website that had just appeared in the world one day. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.400 By the time Ko Dibanos returned to pyeong Yang in 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.199 two thousand one with a group of twenty delegates from 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.240 the k f A, he says his organization had thousands 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.560 of members. It now has more than sixteen thousand across 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.320 one hundred twenty countries. Still, he ached to be more 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.360 than a friend. Kao Debinos wanted to be part of 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.120 the project, he says, and offered to move to North 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.240 Korea and join the army. Officials there told him the 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.480 country had plenty of soldiers, what it didn't have was 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.840 a European cultural envoy. He was disappointed, but saw the logic. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.320 I will do what the country needs me to do, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.640 which is international relations, he says. I will sacrifice myself 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:34.280 in the capitalist jungle and fight my way on February sixteenth, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.400 two thousand two, Kim Jong Il gave Kaw Dibinos his 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.880 official appointment, the only non Korean working for the government, 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:47.400 he says, with pride, first and only in history. Kao 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.280 Dibinos is sometimes portrayed as a glorified tour guide, the 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.920 man you call to book a trip to Peyongyang. But 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.040 my work is not tourism, he says. My work is 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.920 to bring v I P s. He did not arrange 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.520 visits by former presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, or 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.000 for that matter, by Dennis Rodman, the eccentric former basketball star. 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.319 Those came through the U N Mission, and Kau Dibanos 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.880 is fine with that. Rodman was a huge headache, he says. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.920 But he did organize North Korea's first cryptocurrency conference. For 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.199 a country banished from the global banking system, crypto has 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.240 obvious appeal. The gathering was held in April nineteen at 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.040 the glittering peong Yang PSI Tech Complex, which looks from 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.959 above like an atom and was open to anyone who 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.640 wanted to apply for an invitation, except for journalists and 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:41.480 residents of South Korea, Japan, and Israel. Eight foreigners attended, 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:46.480 including Italian information security specialist Fabio Pietro Santi. He says 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.640 the two day event was strange. The English talks were 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.200 translated into Korean with a delay, forcing speakers to pause 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.920 after every line, and participants were not allowed to interact 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:01.120 with a single North Korean. Prominent American crypt specialists, Virgil 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.040 Griffith was another guest. Griffith flew home to Singapore with 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.640 official state souvenirs, patriotic posters and knickknacks, and went straight 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.960 to the U. S. Embassy to say I have been 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.400 to North Korea and I give you some gifts. Caldbanos 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.600 tells me, breaking into a grin, the decision was unwise, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.760 in his opinion. On November, three weeks after my visit 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.040 to Spain, Griffith was arrested in Los Angeles and charged 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.000 with violating U S sanctions for advising North Korea on 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.000 bitcoin mining. He faces twenty years in prison and has 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.040 pleaded not guilty. Pietro Santi had a more fruitful trip. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.839 He'd been looking for cheap technical talent to build an 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:45.160 open source medical software tool legal under UN sanctions, and 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.600 Caudbanos helped him set up meetings Shortly thereafter, Pietro Santi 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.240 paid seven thousand, one HU euros about seventy seven hundred 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.520 dollars for four months of design work by four programmers. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.839 I can't say that they are super high quality, but 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.240 they were much better than many Indians I've worked with. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.880 He says. What impressed him most is that the programmers 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.520 are able to work despite being cut off from the Internet, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.080 as nearly all North Korean citizens are. When they need 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:16.240 technical information, the programmers told Pietro Santi they find it offline. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.560 He's now contemplating establishing a permanent research and design center there. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.840 Thirty thousand euros he figures would pay for five or 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.560 six full time developers for a year. Kau Dibanos says 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:32.040 that other influential people, including Americans, have visited Pyongyang at 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.240 his invitation, but they rarely talk about it. This frustrates him. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.560 He wishes they would scream from the rooftops of the 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.960 fantastic visits that obliterate their pre existing biases about Asia's utopia. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.920 A former defense minister from a European nation that Kau 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.800 Dibanos won't name recently contacted him to inquire about a trip. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.600 He says This was an opportunity for promotion, to break 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.600 the propaganda that you cannot travel to North Korea or 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.320 you know that we will kill you, he says. But 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.439 they don't want that because they know the problem it 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.880 will create. Kaw Dibenos gets it. When he built the 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.120 North Korean website, he had a good job doing I 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.600 t but after word about his side hustle got out, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.520 he was reprimanded. He told his bosses it was just 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.800 a hobby. Whenever I go home, instead of playing football 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.720 or playing on the computer, I'm working for Korea from 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.960 seven or eight p m. Until two or three a m. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.800 He told them. It is my passion. The company wasn't 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.280 having it. It urged Cawdbanos to quit, and he did 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.280 in exchange for severance. He hasn't worked since two thousand five. 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.400 I have to fight to survive. But that's the rule 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:42.040 of the capitalist jungle. He says. His position carries no salary. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.120 North Korea doesn't compensate him directly in any way. He says. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.160 He makes money by commission. When a company signs a 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.200 deal to invest with North Korea, cow Dibinos takes what 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.680 he calls a tiny fraction from the foreigner's side. This 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.280 pays his bills usually, though he's been unable to arrange 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.320 meetings during the coronavirus pandemic. I'm doing this for ideology 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.520 and not for other interests, he says. If the kf 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.360 A were a business, he charged members ten euros a 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:14.320 month and be rich. Instead, He's often broke. Sometimes it 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.360 can be two months and I don't have a single cent, 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.000 he says. In those cases, month three gets hairy and 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.560 he more actively pursues deals, but every deal is fraught. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.960 One side often backs out because of the complexities of 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.800 trying to make business in a country under international sanctions. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.120 It helps that he lives frugally in a six hundred 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.000 fifty square foot house with a six hundred euro monthly 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.040 mortgage on a few acres of wooded hillside. There is 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.440 a phrase that I like to use, he says. The 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.640 rich person is not the one who has more money, 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.320 but the one that needs less. I don't need fancy cars, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.000 and I don't spend money going to a disco. He 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.000 sees a movie once every couple of months. He doesn't 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.440 drink or smoke coodbinos must be entrepreneurial to navigate this 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.680 peculiar path he broke his relationships between capitalists and a 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.200 regime that dislikes them but not their money. As such, 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:11.160 he runs into bureaucratic roadblocks. Persistence is a prerequisite, immunity 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:16.080 to frustration a necessity. The easiest deals to consummate, he says, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.120 often involved North Korea's natural resources. That's why the Adrian 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.240 Hong request to talk about mining seemed reasonable at first. Also, 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.040 there are investments to be made in textiles, pharmaceutical research, 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.280 and heavy industry. Lately, Kudmino says he's fostered agreements with 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.320 European companies to use cheap, skilled labor on technology projects. 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.320 We develop a lot of apps for Android and iOS 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.240 and very cheap, he says, And we are very strong 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.280 in animation. We export a lot for all kinds of 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.960 modern cartoons. He cites an example, but obliquely. Let's say 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.840 you're making a cartoon and you are outsourcing the work. 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.520 So you go to Romania because you know it's very cheap. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.640 But the Romanian company knows of an even cheaper option. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.840 It's representative flies to Pyongyang and makes a deal for 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.359 the same work at half the cost, and then gets 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.080 fifty of the fee without employing anyone. This has happened, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.679 He says. He will not name movies nor popular video games. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.600 North Korean labor is also behind websites and crypto. He says. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.560 The shadow hands of globally sanctioned socialist labor are all 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:27.000 around us. Kao Dibanos is famous in North Korea. He 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.800 has a Korean name Joe Saniel, meaning Korea is one country, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.080 and a nickname Chang gun im Chanza, which means dear 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.320 soldier of the General, the general being Kim jong Il. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.199 North Koreans politely approach him in restaurants and bring their 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.199 glasses of wine to cheer with me. He says. He 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.040 speaks only a little Korean, saying he doesn't have time 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:54.040 to learn, and conducts business with the Cultural Committee in English. Spaniards, however, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.760 will stop me to talk and to take selfies. They're 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.560 kind of invasive in the private area because they see 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.679 you in a TV and they think they know you. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.160 I witnessed two women approach him at a cafe. They 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.720 say something in I think Korean, Yes, he confirms. After 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.760 the women leave, they thanked me for my work. Sometimes 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.920 fans show up at pyeong Yang cafe, a small space 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.720 on the ground floor of an apartment building near Tarragona's Port. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.360 Kodbanos opened at the cafe, which served Korean foods, coffee 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.119 and beer, and North Korean souvenirs as a marketing opportunity 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.960 in and for a year it was a minor tourist attraction. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.119 A kf A member owns the place, so there's no rent. Still, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.440 what little business it did wasn't enough to cover the 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.080 monthly two thousand euros in tax and staff wages. Today 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.600 it's just a place to hold KFE meetings and bring 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.240 visitors like me. He plops on a couch and talks 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.879 about how people have the wrong ideas about North Korea 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.480 and the US. The former isn't bleak and miserable, the 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.760 latter isn't eden caw Dibanos is a loyal mouthpiece. He 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.520 rejects all questions about extra judicial old killings or humanitarian 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.199 atrocities as propaganda. The media is often reporting that we 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.080 execute people, which is not true, he claims. He says 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.720 he's been to Palo Alto and was worried for his 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.920 safety after dark. He also stayed in New York City 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.639 the Bronx once, and then there was Orlando. That was 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.280 when caw Dibnos went to Florida to film a scene 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.600 for a documentary The Propaganda Game, in which he plays 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:31.040 a major role. The Spanish director Alvaro Longoria wanted to 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.439 get kaw Dimnos talking in the US about what he 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.240 calls the famous film of the stupid Franco Man. He 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:42.080 means James the actor, not Francisco the fascist, and the 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.080 film and question is the interview which Franco made with 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.399 Seth Rogan. The interview makes fun of North Korea and 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.119 shows Kim Jong un perishing in a helicopter crash. This 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.720 indignity allegedly infuriated Kim so much that he ordered the 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.000 hacking of Sony Pictures Entertainment and the release of documents. 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.800 Law Gloria liked the idea of having caw Dibonos mocked 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.679 these allegations on garishly American soil next to the giant 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.160 metal globe at Universal Studios, Florida. Why there and not outside, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:16.320 say Sony headquarters is unclear. Longoria didn't return requests for comment. 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.960 They shot at guerrilla style, just two men and a 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.119 small camera among the tourists. I was explaining that it 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.240 is known that the DPRK doesn't care about that stupid movie. 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.399 Caw Dibonos recalls he was explaining it loudly enough that 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.280 nervous tourists called security and the two Spaniards were ejected 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.680 from the park. At least I managed to see alligators, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.040 he says, that's the good part of it. Public rants 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.399 have harmed cow Dibonos before a few years back, he 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.439 was standing along the Korean demilitarized Zone with a Spanish 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.600 journalist who asked him on camera how he felt about 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.960 the presence of US soldiers. Caw Dibinos replied that he 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.000 felt very angry about the US occupation and that if necessary, 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.600 I will take the arms and push them out. The 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.000 footage set off a backlash in Spain that led to 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.280 a raid on his home, the confiscation of two handguns 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.440 that fired only rubber bullets, and the loss of his passport. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.480 He pleaded guilty to not having the required license for 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.680 the guns. The case is under appeal and he's still 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.480 unable to travel. Consensus in the U s has been 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.280 that North Korea was behind this onny hack, but that's 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.240 not been proven. Kaw Dibinos is here to tell us 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.520 all that the assertion is ridiculous. The country does have 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.720 excellent hackers, targeting a movie studio would be a waste 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:37.440 of their abilities. It's been three years since kaw Dibinos 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.720 has visited pyong Yang. He says he misses the place. 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.320 He still wishes he could live there, where the only 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.040 thing his life might lack is variety. He'd miss horror movies. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.200 We don't have good horror movies in North Korea because 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.600 you need special effects and a full industry behind that, 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.800 he says. But will I sacrifice a horror movie once 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:57.600 every two months for living in a place where I 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.280 can leave my wallet and nobody's going to steal for me, 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.000 where I will have a free mortgage, Because now I'm 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.399 living on the edge. If I don't have money at 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.359 the end of this month, the bank kicks me out, 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.320 I'm homeless. So what do you want to see a 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.760 horror movie or have a house guaranteed for life? Caw 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:18.359 Dibanos is an idealist. Hypocrisy irritates him. That's why I 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.320 work for North Korea, he says. I know the president, 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.320 vice president and most of our ministers and leaders. I 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.320 know how they live, I know how they behave. They 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:29.199 are the ones who set the standard of honesty and 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.960 being humble. If I found that any of them will 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.880 accept a bribe or saying one thing and doing the other, 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.400 I will never work for our government. I told our president. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.280 I will always serve the dpr K as long as 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.159 we keep our ideology and our standard. The day that 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.000 DPRK will change like China or when they accept bribes, 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.240 I will say bye bye. North Korea's mission at the 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.320 u N and the country's embassy in Beijing didn't respond 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.800 to request for comment on caw Dbanos's relationship to the government. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:02.560 South Korea's Unification minister, which is responsible for inter Korean affairs, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:07.320 declined to comment. China in particular offends him as a 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.320 communist nation that now has a quasi free market riddled 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.360 with corruption. China is a cautionary tale of what could 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.240 happen if North Korea opened its borders. If you ask 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.439