Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and the US economy has slowed to
Speaker 1: one point four GDP growth in Q four twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. Sisters
Speaker 1: in Law's own Joys Vans stops by to talk about
Speaker 1: SCOTUS striking down Trump's tariff policy, and then we'll talk
Speaker 1: to Epstein survivor Maria Farmer about her experiences with Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Ebstein and Les Wexner.
Speaker 2: But first the news.
Speaker 3: MI the Republicans are holding on to their majority by
Speaker 3: a thread. There's Tony Gonzalez we talked about in the
Speaker 3: last episode, who if he leaves, will leave Mike Johnson
Speaker 3: in a very bad spot in Congress. And it now
Speaker 3: appears from this latest video that Mitch McConnell may not
Speaker 3: be all the way there. Are you ready to watch this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's want his video. I'm sure, okay, centerator for
Speaker 2: election three short years?
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I had a hard time here, that's okay.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on running for.
Speaker 2: Reelection twenty What am I thoughts about.
Speaker 3: What running for re election in twentelve?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Did you hear the question senator running for reelection in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty six? Yeah, all right, I'm sorry you all
Speaker 4: were going to need a minute, Manny.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. We're not playing that to be cruel.
Speaker 1: Getting old is something we're all going to have to
Speaker 1: deal with if we're lucky you Yeah, better.
Speaker 2: Than the alternative.
Speaker 1: We're playing that because we have a real problem in
Speaker 1: this country at this moment, and we need age limits
Speaker 1: on electeds. And that is what we're trying to get
Speaker 1: here left right time to have some age limits.
Speaker 2: People just don't want to leave office.
Speaker 1: Power is hard to give up, and I get it, man,
Speaker 1: But we're just seeing this again and again and again.
Speaker 1: We really need.
Speaker 2: Our politicians to have age limits.
Speaker 3: Get's interesting because I've seen some people saying, oh, they're
Speaker 3: worried Bashir will be able to replace him with somebody,
Speaker 3: but the eight Senate actually put limitations on Basher's ability
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: That because why because they're worried that a Democrat would
Speaker 1: get that job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like what we're on his third senior
Speaker 3: moment here that we've seen like where he just disconnects yeah.
Speaker 1: And this is not to say that we don't understand
Speaker 1: the sensitivity of getting older or that we don't appreciate
Speaker 1: how hard that is. It's more just that we see
Speaker 1: that this is a real problem that we keep seeing
Speaker 1: again and again and again, and that there's only one
Speaker 1: way that we're going to get through this, and that's
Speaker 1: to have tournaments on candidates.
Speaker 3: Yes. So Harriet's on CNN was talking about a concept
Speaker 3: that many people discuss, which is that you know, Trump
Speaker 3: will never go below this four of a certain approval,
Speaker 3: and he's saying, I don't know, man, these poles are
Speaker 3: looking so bad. The four may be lower than we thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Harry Enton is a polster and he has been
Speaker 1: covered you know, we've all been covering this forever and
Speaker 1: ever until we die. But this is two points lower
Speaker 1: across a number of posters, and he is now in
Speaker 1: worse shape than at any point in his first term
Speaker 1: or where Biden was ever. So it's basically he's underwater.
Speaker 1: Like twenty points is low according to Yahoo, nineteen points
Speaker 1: according to NBC is twenty. I mean, he's really underwater.
Speaker 1: And it's worth realizing that, like when he came in
Speaker 1: the second time, he actually was more popular. He had
Speaker 1: won the popular vote. He had really a lot of
Speaker 1: opportunities to connect with voters. He had billionaires talking about
Speaker 1: how grat he was. You know, he had the closest
Speaker 1: thing he's ever had to a mandate, and he absolutely
Speaker 1: squandered it, like you can't fucking believe. And so we
Speaker 1: have these pulling low numbers that are pretty spectacular.
Speaker 3: And we're seeing now is that he's sending these insane
Speaker 3: truth posts about fixing the vote because he sees how
Speaker 3: unpopular is. We have one here that is just insane
Speaker 3: about voter ID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's what's happening. Trump and Republicans see the polls.
Speaker 1: They know that they're in big trouble. They see it happening,
Speaker 1: and so they really really really want to mess with
Speaker 1: our voting and they want to pass this Save Act.
Speaker 1: They can't pass the Save Act unless they get rid
Speaker 1: of the filibuster. If they get rid of the philibuster,
Speaker 1: that means that everything changes. That legislation is much easier
Speaker 1: to pass. But it's also the Save Act is really bad.
Speaker 1: It would federalize elections. I mean, this is why he's
Speaker 1: so hot on it. I'm going to read a little
Speaker 1: bit of this truth social post because it has a
Speaker 1: lot of capitalization, and like, it's important to hear Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's own words sometimes because you have to know how
Speaker 1: unhinged a lot of this stuff is. We cannot let
Speaker 1: the Democrats get away with no voter ID all caps
Speaker 1: any longer. These are horrible, disingenuous cheaters all caps. They
Speaker 1: have all sorts of reasons why it shouldn't be passed,
Speaker 1: and they boldly laugh in the back rooms after their
Speaker 1: ridiculous presentations. If it weren't such a serious matter, it
Speaker 1: would be considered a total joke. No voter ID is
Speaker 1: even crazier and more ridiculous than men playing in women's sports. Right,
Speaker 1: these are the three things he thinks he wins on
Speaker 1: men playing in women's sports, open borders, or transgender for everyone. Okay,
Speaker 1: is clearly like these are his three greatest hits.
Speaker 3: My favorite right that we should add to the constitution transgender.
Speaker 1: For transgender for everyone. Republicans must put this at the
Speaker 1: top of every speech. It is a can't miss for
Speaker 1: reelection in the midterms. Huh And beyond explanation point, even
Speaker 1: Democratic voters agree eighty five percent that there should be
Speaker 1: voter ID, and there are, by the way, a lot
Speaker 1: of states where there is voter ID. It's only the
Speaker 1: political quote unquote leaders, crooked losers like Schumer and Jeffries.
Speaker 1: By the way, if only they were as bad as
Speaker 1: Trump says they are in this truth that have no shame,
Speaker 1: explain why it's racist, and every other thing they can
Speaker 1: think of. This is an issue that must be fought,
Speaker 1: and be fought now, all caps explanation point. So I
Speaker 1: always feel like with Trump it's important to just look
Speaker 1: at what he says, even if he's a liar. I
Speaker 1: just want to keep going. I will present them shortly
Speaker 1: in the form of an executive order. I hope the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court realizes as they painstakingly review the very simple
Speaker 1: topic of country saving tariffs. Important right, because he was
Speaker 1: really anxious about this tariff decision and they ruled against him.
Speaker 1: Those same tariffs have been used by other countries against
Speaker 1: US to drain it of its treasury and security for
Speaker 1: many years.
Speaker 2: Again not true at all.
Speaker 1: So pack the courts with twenty one Supreme Court justices
Speaker 1: their dream explanation points which they will submit. Look, he's anxious,
Speaker 1: he's worried, he sees the polls here we are.
Speaker 3: Yep, So eleven million visitors seem to have not come
Speaker 3: here since Trump was elected, which is hitting the economy
Speaker 3: very bad. We have this new report where the Walt
Speaker 3: Disney Company is quite a posse about this, and I
Speaker 3: hear it all the time from people at restaurants and
Speaker 3: bars I go to in New York that they just
Speaker 3: don't see the Europeans here the way they used to,
Speaker 3: and that was keeping them in business.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine why people would not want to come
Speaker 1: to a country where our police force has murdered two
Speaker 1: American citizens.
Speaker 2: I don't know our masked police force.
Speaker 1: And where we see endless stories of ice locking up
Speaker 1: kids and deporting the wrong people. And I don't know
Speaker 1: why you wouldn't want to come here. Luckily, we have
Speaker 1: FIFA World Cup coming and Donald Trumps won the FIFA
Speaker 1: Soccer Peace Prize, so that should get Taurus here.
Speaker 3: A coveted prize.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, Yes, FIFA World Cup the best.
Speaker 3: So Thomas Massey, who I really every time we have
Speaker 3: to quote him, I can't believe we're quoting a good
Speaker 3: way these days. He says, the Trump UFO talk is
Speaker 3: the ultimate weapon of mass distraction from the Epstein files.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's right. He's right, He's right, he's right. Look,
Speaker 1: Massy is so interesting and this moment is so strange
Speaker 1: because he is a libertarian and like, well, we don't
Speaker 1: necessarily agree with everything he says. It's really interesting. He
Speaker 1: and Rocanna have tried to pass a War Powers Act.
Speaker 1: Trump has amassed all of these ships by the Gulf.
Speaker 1: This is like a real moment. We're seeing like libertarian
Speaker 1: values like the Ran Pauls and the Thomas Massey's and
Speaker 1: this sort of like, you know, democratic values aligned. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about UFOs because Trump was on the
Speaker 1: airplane coming home from Georgia where he was on an
Speaker 1: affordability tour, though you wouldn't know it because you almost
Speaker 1: spent no time talking about affordability. And you know, he's
Speaker 1: moved as many aircrafts into the Middle East as has
Speaker 1: been ever since two thousand and three.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's wild.
Speaker 1: He's basically wants to bomb irand his administration has offered
Speaker 1: like three or four different reasons for why, which I
Speaker 1: think what you know about Trump world is when they're lying,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of the time, they offer multiple
Speaker 1: explanations so they said that they wanted because the protesters,
Speaker 1: they wanted to you know, because Iran killed all these protesters, right,
Speaker 1: they said it's because of the nuclear program that we
Speaker 1: know all the nukes are buried, because of the last
Speaker 1: saying it's because they want to destabilize the region and terrorism.
Speaker 1: So there's like a million different answers. So that's how
Speaker 1: we know they're lying. But the point here is last night,
Speaker 1: on the flight home from Georgia, he is talking to
Speaker 1: a journalist. A journalist says, well, or maybe this was
Speaker 1: on the way there, he's saying. A journalist says, well,
Speaker 1: Obama says that there are aliens, and he said, well
Speaker 1: that was not Obama. You know, you could see in
Speaker 1: his head the wheels turning. He said something like that's
Speaker 1: classified information. Is he releasing classifiedamin? You know, I think
Speaker 1: you're like, can I arrest Obama?
Speaker 3: And he's like, good, damn it. Wait, I was the
Speaker 3: one who said that I could declassify things with my brain.
Speaker 3: God damnit. He was president before me, right, And in.
Speaker 1: His head you can see him thinking like, oh, the
Speaker 1: people are interested in aliens. Oh that is a good one.
Speaker 2: That doesn't tie to Ebstein. There you go. That's how
Speaker 2: we got here.
Speaker 1: Joyce Fans is the author of the substack Civil Discourse,
Speaker 1: the co host of the podcast Sisters in Law, and
Speaker 1: the author of Giving Up is Unforgivable, a Manual for
Speaker 1: keeping a Democracy. Joyce Fans, Hey, how are you good?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Okay, we are at a moment where the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: has actually told Trump no. I think it's happened like
Speaker 1: and you know, like the number of times as I
Speaker 1: have fingers.
Speaker 5: On one hand, I think you have too many fingers
Speaker 5: for this court, but any hind.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, exactly too many fingers. Talk about this Scotis
Speaker 1: decision on tars.
Speaker 5: Yes, you make a really interesting point that this is
Speaker 5: about the Court telling Trump no. And first, let me
Speaker 5: tell you that in the two hours since the decision
Speaker 5: came out, I have not read all one hundred and
Speaker 5: seventy pages with great care. So I'm going to speak
Speaker 5: for it makes two of us. Yeah, we'll be doing
Speaker 5: that this weekend. It's going to be a fun weekend
Speaker 5: at shay Vance. I think I have a good bottle
Speaker 5: of champagne to read with. But look, let me just
Speaker 5: say this about the context. You know, the theme of
Speaker 5: this presidency has been Donald Trump's effort to seize more power. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and he's not seizing it in a vacuum. He's seizing
Speaker 5: it from Congress in large part. And at the same
Speaker 5: time he's trying to tell the Supreme Court it doesn't
Speaker 5: have the ability to review his decisions. It's not just
Speaker 5: in this case. That has been a theme. For instance,
Speaker 5: where he tried to use the Alien Enemies APT to
Speaker 5: do things with deportation that no president has ever done,
Speaker 5: and he tried to do it again with the National Guard,
Speaker 5: federalizing them. In both of those cases, he found statutes
Speaker 5: that gave presidents unusual enhanced powers in emergency situations, and
Speaker 5: then he claimed that there was an emergency, said the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court couldn't review his decision and proceeded. And so
Speaker 5: this is actually the third time that we've seen the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court tell Trump know. But what's important about this case.
Speaker 5: The tariff's case was fully briefed, fully argued, we have
Speaker 5: this long decision that lays out the court's reasoning. And
Speaker 5: in the case of both deportations and the National Guard,
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court ruled on early preliminary motions in those
Speaker 5: cases off of the shadow docket and they didn't really
Speaker 5: lay out their reasoning, so it makes it important that
Speaker 5: they've done it. Here, can I just say that, I mean,
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court is not the hero of the moment, right,
Speaker 5: certainly a six y three decision and should have been
Speaker 5: nine zero because I'm sorry, I'm wound up about it,
Speaker 5: but I'll just say it should have been nine oh.
Speaker 5: It's not a hard case. This is not about the
Speaker 5: president's power. You know, with Tariff's writ large Congress has
Speaker 5: the tariff's power. They can loan it to the president.
Speaker 5: They do specifically in certain statutes with limitations on how
Speaker 5: long he can impose it for what percentage it can be. Here,
Speaker 5: Trump took this statute AEPA that does not have the
Speaker 5: word tariffs in it. He used it to impose, you know,
Speaker 5: for all time tariffs as high as he wanted it to.
Speaker 5: And it should have been nine oh. The textualists on
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court should have said the Constitution, you know,
Speaker 5: the Statute AEPA, none of that says Trump has this power.
Speaker 5: So no, mister President. And the fact that three justices
Speaker 5: were still willing to shill for the President to some
Speaker 5: extent I think is just.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that the three justices not surprising. Fox's
Speaker 1: surprising at Clarence Thomas, Samuel and Leito and Justice kegstand Kavanaugh.
Speaker 5: But first, but that one is a little bit surprising.
Speaker 5: Let me say, I think people assumed it might be
Speaker 5: gor such but he had written, you know, as recently
Speaker 5: his less term about the importance of textualism, so maybe
Speaker 5: a little less surprising. What's interesting here though, in what
Speaker 5: I haven't looked at yet. We've got concurrences from everybody,
Speaker 5: in the sense from everybody, and it'll take some time
Speaker 5: to distill what the actual holding is that had six
Speaker 5: votes to back it.
Speaker 1: But it is important to realize, like this is all
Speaker 1: under the guise of the unitary executive theory, which is
Speaker 1: a theory that the president is a king and the
Speaker 1: Congress is a bunch of schmocks who do whatever he wants.
Speaker 5: Basically, I think that's how we should understand this as
Speaker 5: ab And you know, something I wrote about a lot
Speaker 5: in my book and that I've talked about a lot
Speaker 5: is my belief that at some point the Supreme Court
Speaker 5: would tell Trump no, not because of legal principles, but
Speaker 5: because they didn't want to become irrelevant. In other words,
Speaker 5: if the Court keeps letting the president do whatever he
Speaker 5: wants and erodes judicial review, then there's no rule for
Speaker 5: a Supreme Court. And I think that we should understand
Speaker 5: this decision in some ways as the court both telling
Speaker 5: the President no, but maybe more importantly saying yes to
Speaker 5: their own ability to remain relevant.
Speaker 1: It is also important to realize so this case was
Speaker 1: not teed up by some woke squad. This was teed
Speaker 1: up by Leonard Leo and the surviving Koch brother Yeah.
Speaker 1: Pretty hard to think of two people with more skin
Speaker 1: in the game when it comes to federalist society or
Speaker 1: the court, the making of the court itself.
Speaker 5: You know, this case a decision between you know, MAGA,
Speaker 5: which only got three votes and the Koch brothers who
Speaker 5: got six.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And by the way, one of my friends was sending
Speaker 5: me market graphics just as we were starting out. But
Speaker 5: it looks like the market is taking this decision as
Speaker 5: a good sign.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it means that Donald Trump can't kill our
Speaker 1: economy for no reason.
Speaker 5: But according to Pam Bondi, that means everything's good.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, but speak you have Wench. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the tariff decision is a big one a question also,
Speaker 1: how you undo these tariffs now, because remember this administration
Speaker 1: is not so big on following the law.
Speaker 5: You know, there had been a lot of thinking that
Speaker 5: the court would reverse and would send this back to
Speaker 5: the lower courts, which it did, but would also you know,
Speaker 5: Neil kat y'all, who would argued the case successfully, had
Speaker 5: said an oral argument, well, maybe you can do that
Speaker 5: without undoing past tariffs. And again I haven't read carefully yet,
Speaker 5: but my quick read suggests that the court didn't do
Speaker 5: that and that the remedy may be up to the
Speaker 5: district court, which is which is great. Well maybe, I mean,
Speaker 5: the lower court's not going to be thrilled about figuring
Speaker 5: that out, because unwinding the tariffs will be difficult and complicated.
Speaker 5: The administration, to your point, Molly has argued that doing this,
Speaker 5: you know, will put us into bankruptcy. I mean, that's
Speaker 5: not true, but that's sort of the position that they're taking.
Speaker 5: But it seemed to me that Neil's position in oral argument,
Speaker 5: although I thought it was it was a smart thing
Speaker 5: to give the court that out, to say that you
Speaker 5: can sidestep all the difficulty of unwinding previously collected tariffs
Speaker 5: you know, if the tariffs are illegal, then they were
Speaker 5: improperly collected and they have to be restored. I want
Speaker 5: to know, does this mean, you know, I'm a knitter.
Speaker 5: When I buy my knitting yarn from Europe, now I'm
Speaker 5: paying horrible tariffs on it. I want to know, do
Speaker 5: I get that money back? I don't have clarity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want my money back too. It's a really
Speaker 1: good question. And it's important to see this case as
Speaker 1: what it is, to be clear eyed that this is
Speaker 1: not a victory for democracy as so as much as
Speaker 1: it is a victory for preexisting financial system.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't want to undersell this decision. If
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court had not pumped the brakes on the
Speaker 5: Trump presidency here, it would have been a devastating moment.
Speaker 5: So I mean good to see that at the margins
Speaker 5: the court will stand for the rule of law. So
Speaker 5: it's good that the Court pumped the breaks in this instance.
Speaker 5: And this is a very important decision. It may frankly
Speaker 5: be the most important one since the criminal immunity decision,
Speaker 5: where the Court gave Trump so much power, such an
Speaker 5: excess of freedom from the possibility of criminal prosecution. And
Speaker 5: here they're saying to the President, no, you can't feal
Speaker 5: Congress's power, and you can't tell us that we don't
Speaker 5: have the power of judicial review. In other words, in
Speaker 5: many ways, it restores or is the balance of power
Speaker 5: among the three branches. The reason I'm not willing to
Speaker 5: be super enthusiastic about the Court is I know what
Speaker 5: comes next, and that's Klay, the jerrymandering case, which has
Speaker 5: the potential for the Court to lock in Republican majorities
Speaker 5: in the House of Representatives for a generation depending on
Speaker 5: how that decision comes out. There are other voting rights cases,
Speaker 5: and you know, as the administration is teeing up the
Speaker 5: Save Act and getting ready to pass it, the consequences
Speaker 5: of those cases could be devastating for democracy.
Speaker 2: So we'll have to see right now.
Speaker 1: That said, they cannot pass the Save Act unless they
Speaker 1: undue the filibuster, which again they may try to. But
Speaker 1: they don't have sixty votes for the Save Act in
Speaker 1: the Senate.
Speaker 5: I think that's right. You know they're gaining votes. Are
Speaker 5: they going to get Democratic votes? I think no, they're
Speaker 5: not going to get. But it's disturbing that they're over
Speaker 5: fifty on the Republican side right, No, they're.
Speaker 1: Fucking partisan hacks. And also it's yes, it's disturbing. And
Speaker 1: the voting rights, what's coming down with the voting rights
Speaker 1: could be crazy. I mean they could just get rid
Speaker 1: of every I mean, the South could be.
Speaker 2: All Republican congress people.
Speaker 1: I mean they could just rid and you know, they
Speaker 1: could gain five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten seats.
Speaker 5: But what's going to be nineteen? I mean, I think
Speaker 5: it's worth pointing out that the Georgia think tank that
Speaker 5: Stacy Abrams started has done an analysis of the Dawn
Speaker 5: I think just as nine nineteen vulnerable districts.
Speaker 1: That's very sobering. Now let's talk about Epstein. We've got
Speaker 1: these documents. Pam Bondi says it's over. Can Pambondy do that?
Speaker 1: We only have half the documents we have the UK.
Speaker 1: Andrew has been arrested. We have the rest of the
Speaker 1: Epstein files. People in the US are in the Trump cabinet.
Speaker 1: Basically we have Lutnick. We have I mean, every time
Speaker 1: you watching the Ministry of Peace or whatever, that Ministry
Speaker 1: of War peace Ponzi scheme that Trump was doing yesterday,
Speaker 1: and we had Tony Blair in the Epstein files. We
Speaker 1: had Mark Rowan in the Epstein files, like everyone around
Speaker 1: Trump is in those files. Can Pam Bondi say it's
Speaker 1: over and done and talk us through what you think
Speaker 1: the legal remedies here are.
Speaker 5: So, Look, Pambondi is the Attorney General of the United States,
Speaker 5: and if she wants to say it's over, she can
Speaker 5: do that. It's clear that the Justice Department is not
Speaker 5: contemplating prosecution of anyone who is not a Democrat at
Speaker 5: this point. That was the President's guidance to his attorney general.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the real question is this, Molly,
Speaker 5: what are we going to do about it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: Congress has already shown it's vulnerable to strong American public
Speaker 5: opinion on this topic, and I think we need to
Speaker 5: be fierce and unrelenting and demand answers. If Bill Clint
Speaker 5: can testify under oath in Congress, there is no reason
Speaker 5: that Donald Trump cannot. And I think that's frankly, you know,
Speaker 5: it's hard because there's a new issue every day, right, Yeah,
Speaker 5: And it seems to me if I was in charge
Speaker 5: of leading public opinion and trying to get the public
Speaker 5: to influence Congress, it would be that simple point. If
Speaker 5: Bill Clinton can testify under oath, so can Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when we look at these, so we had yesterday,
Speaker 1: we had Las Waxar did a four hour deposition his.
Speaker 5: House, right, Congress traveled to him, which is such an
Speaker 5: irony because Bill and Hillary Clinton will be on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 1: Right, But this is obviously partisan hackro here. But the
Speaker 1: head of oversight is a guy called James Comber. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the ranking is Robert Garcia. Now, I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: that we are seeing them do anything because if Donald
Speaker 1: Trump had his way, there would be nothing coming out
Speaker 1: of this. And when they reviewed less, he said, I
Speaker 1: met Jeffrey Epstein a number of times with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So I wonder what do you think's going on there
Speaker 1: with James Comer, because there's no world in which James
Speaker 1: Comer is just committed to the truth.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So you know, I mean, Wexner is obviously getting
Speaker 5: up in years. During his deposition in one of the cases,
Speaker 5: there's reporting that his lawyer leaned over and used profanity
Speaker 5: to say, if you answer any further questions with more
Speaker 5: than five words, I'm going to kill you. Yeah, And
Speaker 5: so you know that's the problem. What are people going
Speaker 5: to say? You know, the former Prince Andrew, what might
Speaker 5: he try to say to save his own soul and
Speaker 5: justify what he did?
Speaker 2: What might you know?
Speaker 5: Maybe a Kathy Rumler, what might she know and what
Speaker 5: might she say? There's inherent risk to everyone who engaged
Speaker 5: in misconduct right now, as you know. I mean, I've
Speaker 5: seen this so many times as a prosecutor. Right when
Speaker 5: the gig up, everybody who's on the sinking ship tries
Speaker 5: to save themselves, and sometimes the best way you can
Speaker 5: do that is to make somebody else the person who's
Speaker 5: going to fall off the boat next. So to your point,
Speaker 5: Comer obviously is not interested in eliciting the truth. But look,
Speaker 5: something that we have forgotten as an American people during
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's administrations is that the power in democracy belongs
Speaker 5: to us are elected officials. Donald Trump made primary them,
Speaker 5: but he doesn't determine if they get re elected.
Speaker 2: We do.
Speaker 5: And that's why we saw the Epstein Files Transparency Act pass.
Speaker 5: That's why there's even this modicum of Congressional oversight hearings
Speaker 5: taking place. And so I think that this is, you know,
Speaker 5: modestly my suggestion, a moment where Americans need to speak
Speaker 5: to their elected officials. My senators are Tommy Tubervill and
Speaker 5: Katie Britt. They don't listen to me a whole lot
Speaker 5: when I talk to them, But you know, you can
Speaker 5: be damn sure be writing and calling both of their
Speaker 5: offices saying we need to get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 5: Because girls, girls were raped, girls were trafficked, prosecutions didn't happen.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of blame to be shared for that.
Speaker 5: In this moment, we can at least provide some form
Speaker 5: of justice to the survivors by exposing the truth. And
Speaker 5: that's your obligation as my elected official.
Speaker 1: So I wonder if we could talk about this for
Speaker 1: a minute, because I have now spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time talking to electeds about this about like what the
Speaker 1: legal remedy here is yea, And they say, you know,
Speaker 1: there's like no chain of the chain of custody on
Speaker 1: the videos, on a lot of the staff is all
Speaker 1: fucked up because this FBI messed it all up, basically,
Speaker 1: and there's all sorts of tips that weren't followed that
Speaker 1: you know, sheets and cheats of things that weren't not followed.
Speaker 1: But you do have more than a thousand victims and
Speaker 1: they have put together a list of two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty people that Thomas Massey has in his office. Do
Speaker 1: these women have any chance for criminal charges? And if not,
Speaker 1: do they have chance for civil There are a lot
Speaker 1: of complications here, right. For one thing, some of these
Speaker 1: now women were young girls when this happened. And whether
Speaker 1: they have the ability to identify the powerful men who
Speaker 1: were there and who abused them, we don't know, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, these men are famous now, back then, maybe
Speaker 1: they weren't, and maybe these identifications can't be made in court.
Speaker 1: So there's all these technical legal issues you reference the
Speaker 1: chain of custody.
Speaker 5: But look, these women I think are increasingly angry. They
Speaker 5: are willing to testify whether some brave prosecutor will try
Speaker 5: to make a criminal case because in many states there's
Speaker 5: no statute of limitations for rape and other child sex trafficking,
Speaker 5: right yeah, well, and in the federal system, right. And
Speaker 5: so what I would say to anybody who's involved in
Speaker 5: the Epstein case is that this is their moment to
Speaker 5: come forward and come clean and do the right thing,
Speaker 5: because in three years, god willing, there will be a
Speaker 5: new attorney General on Pennsylvania Avenue, and that I hope
Speaker 5: will be someone who will be committed to delivering justice
Speaker 5: even if it has been severely delayed. You know, civil
Speaker 5: cases will suffer from the same sorts of legal hoops
Speaker 5: that will have to be jumped through identifying people responsible,
Speaker 5: chain of custody on evidence. Civil cases are very slow. Frankly,
Speaker 5: I think, at least for starters. The most important thing
Speaker 5: for survivors is having the truth come out, because they've
Speaker 5: been told for years that they were lying, that they
Speaker 5: were making it up, that they were prostitutes. They need
Speaker 5: to be publicly vindicated, and then we can talk about
Speaker 5: criminal and civil remedies.
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about this idea that there
Speaker 1: are things people can do. You wrote this book about
Speaker 1: how important it is not to give up, and I
Speaker 1: want you to talk about this quiet message of the
Speaker 1: importance of citizens, because the reality is we would not
Speaker 1: have had any of this Epstein stuff, not any of it,
Speaker 1: had it not been for this sort of dogged work
Speaker 1: of Julie K. Brown, going back to a story that
Speaker 1: was supposedly dead, and the work of Rocanna and Thomas Massey.
Speaker 1: So talk us through what you think citizens can do today.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, the most important myth of
Speaker 5: the Trump era is that we are powerless, that you
Speaker 5: are powerless, that there's nothing you can do, so you
Speaker 5: should just give up and siticide. And obviously, if there's
Speaker 5: a silver lining to everything with the Epstein files, it's
Speaker 5: that we are powerful. And so look, if you know
Speaker 5: you as an individual, are doing what you can do
Speaker 5: that might be con tacting your elected officials, and if
Speaker 5: you are getting together with groups, maybe you're joining with
Speaker 5: your local Indivisible group and planning to participate in the
Speaker 5: No King's rally on the twenty eighth, And if you
Speaker 5: are working to educate other people in your community, because
Speaker 5: you know your friends and your neighbors, especially the ones
Speaker 5: who lean MAGA, they're not going to listen to Malijan
Speaker 5: Faster or Joyce fam we're the enemy. But they will
Speaker 5: listen to you, their neighbor, their friend, who they trust.
Speaker 5: And if you're patient and if you ask them questions
Speaker 5: and let them answer and begin to plant seeds. We're
Speaker 5: seeing that now right we're seeing Trump's ratings are the
Speaker 5: lowest they've ever been. He's down in the thirties on immigration,
Speaker 5: and that's because of these patient, quiet conversations we've been
Speaker 5: having and the innate goodness of Americans. Trump has sold
Speaker 5: people a lot of snake oil and a bill of
Speaker 5: goods based on hate and racial disharmony. I think Americans
Speaker 5: are ready to take that back, and we should all
Speaker 5: try to play whatever role we can. Thank you, Joyce Vance.
Speaker 5: Maria Farmer is a visual artist. She provided the first
Speaker 5: criminal complaint about Jeffrey Ebstein to the New York City
Speaker 5: Police Department and the FBI.
Speaker 1: Welcome to fast Politics, Maria Farmer.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I wanted to have you so much for any number
Speaker 1: of reasons, but the first of which is you and
Speaker 1: your sister were the first people ever to raise the
Speaker 1: alarm and to come forward about Jeffrey Ebstein.
Speaker 2: So if you can just talk a little bit.
Speaker 1: About your story of the sort of end of it
Speaker 1: and how you got because I've read it, it is
Speaker 1: harrowing and horrific.
Speaker 2: Right, So, not to take anything away from Annie at all.
Speaker 2: But she was only sixteen when I reported. She did
Speaker 2: not report anybody. Yeah, like it was me. I hated
Speaker 2: that people think that I dragged a little teenager to
Speaker 2: the NYPD. She had already been traumatized, so you know,
Speaker 2: my mom and I protected her from reports or anything
Speaker 2: like that until two thousand and six when they followed up.
Speaker 1: Tell us what happened when you came to the court
Speaker 1: in the nineties, because I think it's really important. Well,
Speaker 1: you went in and reported Epstein, and then because you
Speaker 1: were really the first person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm definitely the first person, and I'm the only
Speaker 2: one who reported the people I did. So let me
Speaker 2: just explain first who I reported. I went first to
Speaker 2: the NYPD, and they were so blown away by it.
Speaker 2: I spoke to the Chief of Police and he said, Maria,
Speaker 2: this is not even in our jurisdiction. I'll take down
Speaker 2: what is in our jurisdiction. And what happened is Gaelen
Speaker 2: Maxwell had just threatened arson against my building fifty two
Speaker 2: Barrow in Greenwich Village, and so that was like elderly
Speaker 2: people and artists, and I didn't want anyone harmed, and
Speaker 2: so I was under an obligation to alert FBI that
Speaker 2: her threats included arson against the building where I was residing.
Speaker 2: So she told you she was going to burn down
Speaker 2: your house. She said, my career's burned. She said she's
Speaker 2: going to burn all my art whenever I make it.
Speaker 2: That she was going to burn down the building a
Speaker 2: fifty two barrow and it was a tenement building. You know,
Speaker 2: we were all just struggling in there, and I didn't
Speaker 2: want these innocent people harmed. And the NYPD told me,
Speaker 2: you have to call the FBI because this is you know,
Speaker 2: more international and also national. It involves many states. So
Speaker 2: I'd never really even thought about, you know, the FBI.
Speaker 2: Before I was the twenty six year old, I didn't
Speaker 2: think about things like this. I thought about art all day,
Speaker 2: every day. And that's why I loved Manhattan, because I
Speaker 2: just became embedded in the art world. And I called
Speaker 2: the FBI, and this is who I reported. I reported
Speaker 2: Leslie Wexner, I reported Geeln Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Clinton,
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump. Wow, and let me explain why. Okay,
Speaker 2: still to this day, I don't believe some of the
Speaker 2: things saying that these presidents raped teenagers. Don't think that's
Speaker 2: how it went down. That's my personal opinion because some
Speaker 2: of their stories just seem but there's a pattern to
Speaker 2: all the abuse, and the people who aren't involved in
Speaker 2: the pattern tend to make up things and they make
Speaker 2: it more extreme than it really was. Like right now,
Speaker 2: there's this satanic panic bs going on, and that is
Speaker 2: not what our case is about. And it's really really
Speaker 2: disrespectful to victims. There's this really gross man named Nick
Speaker 2: Bryant who's pushing this satanic panic, and like people like
Speaker 2: Tim Burchett, you know, he's a representative, and they're pushing
Speaker 2: this to harm survivors, to harm truth, to desensitize the truth,
Speaker 2: make everyone think, well, it doesn't matter that Virginia was
Speaker 2: a little girl trafficked and raped because people were eaten.
Speaker 2: That never happened, right, So what people need to understand
Speaker 2: is in that files release everything pre twenty nineteen, you
Speaker 2: can pretty much hold on to it is truth. But
Speaker 2: once the case broke there's a lot of people who
Speaker 2: called in and declared, you know, I'm a victim involved
Speaker 2: in our case and it's some kind of a psychological
Speaker 2: problem that's going on here with these people. But that
Speaker 2: the truth of it is, this is not satanic panic.
Speaker 2: This is about child trafficking and rape. And for me,
Speaker 2: I've been a lot less focused on the adults involved because,
Speaker 2: oh the difference between what Annie went through and what
Speaker 2: I went through, we had totally different experiences. But the
Speaker 2: thing is I knew to report. And my little sister
Speaker 2: didn't even understand what happened because she was sixteen years
Speaker 2: old and she's a genius, like she's an IVY doctor,
Speaker 2: and even she did not understand what happened. Right. It
Speaker 2: made me wake up to the fact that teenagers' brains
Speaker 2: are totally different, just totally different than adults. So I'm
Speaker 2: very defensive for all the girls. And some of them
Speaker 2: began as teenagers and they were swept into it and
Speaker 2: they never got to leave, and they're just as much victims.
Speaker 2: There's a girl, Nadia Marsenko, and all these people are
Speaker 2: trying to blame her. She's a fifteen year old survivor.
Speaker 2: She was fifteen when she was lured from Eastern Europe.
Speaker 2: They took her passport away from her, they kidnapped her,
Speaker 2: raped her. She did whatever she could to survive, she
Speaker 2: really did. She had to just survive, and whenever she
Speaker 2: tried to run away, they took her back. And she's
Speaker 2: a beautiful young woman. And so it's a very complicated situation.
Speaker 2: But the ones who started as adults in the luring
Speaker 2: and procuring of children, I don't care about them. The
Speaker 2: other thing is there's a lot of employees that are
Speaker 2: now declaring they were victims, but they were adult employees.
Speaker 2: They were cost conspirators. They knew what was going on,
Speaker 2: they saw it every day, and they never reported. So
Speaker 2: what's shocking to me is that I'm the only one
Speaker 2: who reported all this and why I reported Bill Clinton
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump. I didn't ever see anyone harm a
Speaker 2: child this whole time. I surmised based on the fact
Speaker 2: that Epstein and Geelen stole photographs from my lock box
Speaker 2: that were not people misstate this. They weren't X rated photographs.
Speaker 2: These are photographs I used. I was in a figurative
Speaker 2: art program, okay, so we used photographs as reference pictures.
Speaker 2: They were kind of blurry, you know, sometimes my sister's
Speaker 2: putting on his shirt. You know, it was all about
Speaker 2: body movement. And I was using them not to paint
Speaker 2: from directly, but his reference pictures for anatomy. I couldn't
Speaker 2: afford a life model, right, So for those to be stolen.
Speaker 2: One of my sisters when I took that picture was
Speaker 2: eleven years old. The pictures they stole her she was fifteen,
Speaker 2: So then I knew that these were pedophiles, right, And
Speaker 2: so I surmised from there. When I reported that the
Speaker 2: sitting president who had come to the mansion multiple times
Speaker 2: to visit Geelen Maxwell, that's Bill Clinton. He came to
Speaker 2: that mansion seventy first and she announced it. I did
Speaker 2: not see him there. She announced it beforehand, and we
Speaker 2: always had to prepare things the same way, and she
Speaker 2: was just giddy whenever he would get there. Why is
Speaker 2: the sitting president hanging out with pedophiles? That's why I
Speaker 2: reported him. I didn't see him do anything nefarious. I
Speaker 2: reported Ronald Trump because he was a ubiquitous character in
Speaker 2: the life of Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein declared that was his
Speaker 2: best friend. This man had more money than God. He
Speaker 2: ran a modeling thing like this is nefarious, So I said,
Speaker 2: you need to look into these other people. I reported
Speaker 2: Leslie Wexner because he was he was in charge of
Speaker 2: the whole thing, like he funded it. Jeffrey Epstein told
Speaker 2: me that Leslie Wexner funded him entirely and provided him
Speaker 2: access to everyone and provided him with his credibility. That's
Speaker 2: what Epstein told me personally. I also reported Leslie Wexner
Speaker 2: because I was held captive on his estate. He and
Speaker 2: Abigail their estate, and I want to explain to people
Speaker 2: that estate is three hundred and thirty acres okay, And
Speaker 2: there was at the time when I was there, there
Speaker 2: was one entrance and exit. There was no other way
Speaker 2: to get through except through the Whitebarn gates on Whitebarn Road.
Speaker 2: There were these white picck of gates, and the sheriff
Speaker 2: often and the sheriff's deputy sat in that building and
Speaker 2: the only way to get in and out was through
Speaker 2: their property. And that building he designed. Leslie Wexner designed
Speaker 2: after the Rotunda, I believe years before he knew Epstein.
Speaker 2: I don't know what year, but he designed it to
Speaker 2: match the Capitol building in Ohio, and he called it
Speaker 2: the Rotunda. Epstein hated Ohio. He had no desire. That
Speaker 2: wasn't his property. It may have been handed to him
Speaker 2: for a short time, but I doubt it. But they're
Speaker 2: claiming that. But it's my opinion that maybe records were altered.
Speaker 2: I can't say for sure. That's my opinion. I'm entitled to,
Speaker 2: but it seems very odd. So I just want to
Speaker 2: explain to your audience that when I called to report
Speaker 2: what had happened to me my assault, I called nine
Speaker 2: to one one from Leslie Wexner's guesthouse, Wow, and they
Speaker 2: hung up on me. I called again and the same
Speaker 2: girl answered, and she said, listen, let me stop you.
Speaker 2: The sheriffs at the gates we worked for Wexner. And
Speaker 2: she said, you know, you're just not leaving, and she
Speaker 2: hung up on me again. His bodyguard, Randy Bowie, held
Speaker 2: me against my will in a standoff for over twelve
Speaker 2: hours and wouldn't let me leave. Okay, he had three
Speaker 2: sharpshooters on his property, and Randy's the one who told
Speaker 2: me that there were the three sharp shoot I have
Speaker 2: pictures of them. There were three of these men who
Speaker 2: kept me inside all day. I'm a nobody, like, why
Speaker 2: are you keeping some artists, you know, in a guest house. Well,
Speaker 2: it wasn't a very fun experience, and I believe it
Speaker 2: led to my cancers.
Speaker 1: One of the most horrible things about this whole thing
Speaker 1: is that people have attacked you, guys the vegetara.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then when the files.
Speaker 1: Were released there was actually proof that you had done it.
Speaker 1: Was that like amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a few things. First of all, I did
Speaker 2: this beside Virginia. So for twenty three years no one really,
Speaker 2: you know, my sister was harmed, so I couldn't really
Speaker 2: be talking to her about it, and she wanted me
Speaker 2: to move on with my life. So she was like Maria,
Speaker 2: and no one's ever gonna know who Epstein is. You
Speaker 2: need to move on, you know. And I just kept
Speaker 2: trying to manifest this overtaking. I tried to expose power
Speaker 2: like the whole time, and I did things. I talked to
Speaker 2: people like crappy podcasts. I had all these, you know,
Speaker 2: bad experiences because no one would let me say the
Speaker 2: word Wexner. The mainstream media, who's been ethical and amazing,
Speaker 2: just had liability, so they wouldn't let me talk about Wexner.
Speaker 2: And so I talked about Wexner in any way I could,
Speaker 2: and it didn't make me look so great. But I
Speaker 2: just did it for the greater good, I guess, and
Speaker 2: I got it out there right, and basically I was
Speaker 2: doing it with Virginia, and Virginia kept me alive. With Mariika,
Speaker 2: the two victims kept me alive by starting a GoFundMe
Speaker 2: for my cancer. And so it's a mixed bag because
Speaker 2: I can't really celebrate totally right now because she's not here,
Speaker 2: So it feels like I ran this whole race and
Speaker 2: I handed the on to her and we ran together,
Speaker 2: and then she's not there and I can't win a
Speaker 2: race without her there, right, So I'm kind of stuck
Speaker 2: in this limbo feeling that isn't very celebratory. But I
Speaker 2: look to her amazing family. They're so strong, and they're
Speaker 2: the ones who, you know, truly suffering this loss, and
Speaker 2: they're just carrying on her legacy bravely.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about when you the
Speaker 1: last time you talked to her was the.
Speaker 2: Last communication was quite a bit before she died. I
Speaker 2: don't remember exactly, but her husband was preventing us from
Speaker 2: speaking with her, and so he was sending us ugly
Speaker 2: messages through their email, making us think that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I even contacted Mark and said, does Virginia not love us? Now?
Speaker 2: Like what you know? I just didn't get it. I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: this doesn't sound like her. I can't remember exactly, but
Speaker 2: for the last couple of years she was tormented by
Speaker 2: this man. That is truly the reason we don't have
Speaker 2: her here now. It was just too much. Her children
Speaker 2: were her entire life. I mean, I'm not here to
Speaker 2: speak for her. Her family is but I can just
Speaker 2: talk from my vantage point that man is the reason
Speaker 2: she's not here, combined with all these other horrible people
Speaker 2: and the fact that we were being bullied so so
Speaker 2: badly online. It's continuing. There's a woman named Jessica Reed
Speaker 2: Krause who has been staying at the White House. She
Speaker 2: has singled me out to torment to death, and she
Speaker 2: hired a felon on parole to lie about me, with
Speaker 2: a fake royal named Hervey, I mean whatever, a royal
Speaker 2: lady Victoria Mrvey, and they they went after Virginia even
Speaker 2: post mortem. They've even picked up steam and they're pretending
Speaker 2: to be affiliated with this case. It's got to be
Speaker 2: mental illness, Like I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 2: I know that it's a lot of felons and people
Speaker 2: in power as well, like Daphney Barock was working with them.
Speaker 2: And you know a hood harmed.
Speaker 1: Virginia, right, that's a hooed Barack's wife, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who'd almost killed Virginia. Makes it very clear.
Speaker 2: So the point is, like everyone's going after the victims
Speaker 2: right now. It's bs like that Nick Bryant guy is
Speaker 2: going after Hailey Robson. But Haley was a teenager when
Speaker 2: she was roped into all this, And people don't understand
Speaker 2: the power that these people had over us, right, So yes,
Speaker 2: people like Danny and me and a lot of us
Speaker 2: we refused to recruit. But who knows what he said
Speaker 2: to her to make her do that? And so why
Speaker 2: are you going after people who survived it instead of
Speaker 2: the men and women who worked for Jeffrey Epstein for
Speaker 2: real as adults with adult brains, right, And there's a
Speaker 2: lot of them. There's a lot of them. One of
Speaker 2: them's like suing the government right now with a group
Speaker 2: of women. And she was there thirteen years as an
Speaker 2: adult co conspirator in my opinion, So people have muddied
Speaker 2: the waters and now everyone's victim all of a sudden.
Speaker 2: I know, you know that Vicky ward Like originally took
Speaker 2: our story and now she's suddenly declaring herself a victim
Speaker 2: and a hero. But she tormented my family for decades.
Speaker 2: Wait what happened? She never wrote the story. And when
Speaker 2: she promised my entire family safety and she said that
Speaker 2: it would be okay that I could confide in her
Speaker 2: and I could trust her, and she ended up befriending
Speaker 2: Geeln Maxwell instead, and she called me and said, Maria,
Speaker 2: we're not doing this story now. She said, you put
Speaker 2: a hawk next to your name on a boothday called
Speaker 2: you signed hawt to Maria. You've lost all credibility. And
Speaker 2: then she served me for mentioning her to this amazing woman,
Speaker 2: Tatiana Siegel. I got to talk to her and I
Speaker 2: really really like her and we had a fun chat publicly.
Speaker 2: So Vicky Ward served me for telling the truth about her.
Speaker 2: Would she sue? Do you No? She served me a
Speaker 2: cease and desist, said I couldn't say her name anymore.
Speaker 2: That's bullshit. I'll say her name when I want to.
Speaker 2: This is my experience, and she tormented me half to death,
Speaker 2: and she can't just serve me to get out of
Speaker 2: this right, So she's in my opinion, these people that
Speaker 2: aid it and about it are co conspirators. They're not victims.
Speaker 2: They're people who in nab this to go on decades
Speaker 2: and I looked it up and Vicky Ward wrote about
Speaker 2: herself for decades. She wrote this one article that says,
Speaker 2: when I was in my twenties, I was brunette with
Speaker 2: wonky teeth. But now that I'm forty, I'm a fabulous blonde.
Speaker 2: And here's how I did it. That's not writing about Epstein.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make you a hero. You weren't afraid you
Speaker 2: had the ability to write about him. If she was afraid,
Speaker 2: then why I wasn't afraid. I fought him and I'm
Speaker 2: a nobody. It's been a real battle to be not wealthy,
Speaker 2: have my career stolen from me. Gelan Maxwell made it
Speaker 2: clear to me, you've been leon blackbald Maria, you will
Speaker 2: never have an art career, And it was true. And
Speaker 2: I was studying with the phenomenal Eric Fischer, and he
Speaker 2: kept beating his head against the wall, like why can't
Speaker 2: I get you a gallery? All the doors were closed
Speaker 2: to me. So I gave up right. But that man,
Speaker 2: he's just such a phenomenal artist and tried so hard.
Speaker 2: And he's the reason I survived Wexner's because he called
Speaker 2: him and he gave me instructions on how to f
Speaker 2: you have cancer?
Speaker 1: Yes, how are you?
Speaker 2: Are you? Okay? Oh? Thank you? So it's kind of complicated.
Speaker 2: I believe that I've recovered from Hodgkins lymphoma, which you
Speaker 2: know is a slow growing cancer. I do have a
Speaker 2: brain tumor that will never go away. It's not removable,
Speaker 2: it's vascular, so it's really damaged my faculties. I'm deaf
Speaker 2: in one ear. I'm very disabled from it. Like I
Speaker 2: can't drive, I can't bend over without passing out. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff. I have suberior vena cavas syndrome
Speaker 2: from it, so my face gets really swollen. So that's
Speaker 2: why in a lot of the interviews, I look really
Speaker 2: funny and people make fun of me, like all the
Speaker 2: trolls say, look at her, And meanwhile, I was just
Speaker 2: being brave. I knew I looked horrible, but I did
Speaker 2: all those interviews during chemo and radiation. I still have
Speaker 2: to deal with the cancer. It's, you know, ongoing.
Speaker 1: One of the things that you have been doing is
Speaker 1: you've been painting.
Speaker 2: Right, I haven't really done that much.
Speaker 1: You have some of those paintings, right, I did some
Speaker 1: here vendeark.
Speaker 2: They're really great. I mean you should do more. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My lawyer, Jennifer Freeman, I just want to give her
Speaker 2: a shout out. She's the most phenomenal human being. I
Speaker 2: love her pieces. She's truly a victim's advocate for real.
Speaker 2: She's a tremendous soul and she's always fought for children
Speaker 2: and for survivors. Unlike a lot of the other lawyers
Speaker 2: who entered as superstars and screwed us over, Jennifer Freeman
Speaker 2: and James marshallaw are real And this isn't a commercial.
Speaker 2: I'm being serious. Any survivors need a victim's advocate lawyer,
Speaker 2: they need martial law because I went through it and
Speaker 2: I want the world to know these people. So Jennifer's
Speaker 2: trying to get me back on my feet for making
Speaker 2: my art again, and I'm going to I work really
Speaker 2: really quickly. So I think for about a month I
Speaker 2: drew Revenge art and somebody hacked me and sent that
Speaker 2: in to the FBI, so it's in the file right,
Speaker 2: that was never it's really I mean, I like your bunny, ye.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something I actually asked Danny too.
Speaker 2: She's amazing. She's amazing too. Yeah, you know what, her
Speaker 2: personality so aligned with Virginia's. They're just so similar that
Speaker 2: I just really love her. I feel immediate love for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she loves you too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But what we talked about was that she thinks there
Speaker 1: are still a lot of victims who have not come forward.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? And if we're talking to
Speaker 1: any of them right now, what would you say to them?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'll tell you the theory. Mariika Chartoni, she's
Speaker 2: another genius victim that was one of Virginia's closest friends.
Speaker 2: And her theory is that a lot of them were models.
Speaker 2: And I agree with her. She was a model, and
Speaker 2: a lot of them were models. And they don't need resources,
Speaker 2: and they don't need the harassment they've witnessed that victims
Speaker 2: have endured, and so they're just kind of sitting it
Speaker 2: out because it's not going to contribute to their lives
Speaker 2: very much. It's not that they're not brave, it's that
Speaker 2: they don't want to ruin maybe endanger their children's lives. Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't criticize them for not coming forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think some of the victims have been murdered. Yes,
Speaker 1: I I'm going to tell you why.
Speaker 2: When I was on Wexner's estate and I tried to leave,
Speaker 2: Randy Bowie looked me dead in the eyes. Now, this
Speaker 2: is a sharpshooter. He looked me dead in the eyes,
Speaker 2: and he said, you are never leaving. Do you understand
Speaker 2: never leaving? And I said what does that mean? And
Speaker 2: he said, it means you're never leaving. And he tried
Speaker 2: to take me over to Wexner's main house from the
Speaker 2: guest house, and I would not go. I would not
Speaker 2: go because I know about if a person's going to
Speaker 2: kill you, you make them do it there. It means
Speaker 2: if they're trying to take you elsewhere, it means they're
Speaker 2: uncomfortable doing it there for whatever reason. And so you
Speaker 2: know this has been on Oprah. But also my mother.
Speaker 2: I witnessed an experience with my mother when I was little,
Speaker 2: and she fought very bravely in front of me, and
Speaker 2: so I knew you never go to the second location.
Speaker 2: So I said, no, I'm not going with you, and
Speaker 2: I fought, and that's when I called everyone. I called,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to say, also, there are a
Speaker 2: lot of people falsely accused here. Man named John Paulson JP. Yes,
Speaker 2: he's a billionaire. You know what, he's the most stellar
Speaker 2: gentleman I've ever encountered. Oh, that's interesting. He's not a
Speaker 2: co conspirator. If I'm wrong, I apologize, But my experience
Speaker 2: of this man is that he was truly a gentleman.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that I've ever met such
Speaker 2: a gentleman. He had feelings for me and never ever
Speaker 2: tried anything, and was very, very accepting of the fact
Speaker 2: that I just wanted to be friends. And he was
Speaker 2: a mentor that would take me to Christie's and Sotheby's
Speaker 2: and taught me all about antiques. He was a gentleman.
Speaker 2: This man Massey tried to destroy John Paulson's life and
Speaker 2: said he's on the list. First of all, there's a list. Secondly,
Speaker 2: JP's not on it. If there is one that I
Speaker 2: know of, it's just been all of it frama like
Speaker 2: instead of speaking to us, a lot of these people
Speaker 2: like Massy will just say things that have been harmful.
Speaker 1: There's video everywhere, right, he can everywhere. Virginia talked about
Speaker 1: cameras in the bathroom. She saw cameras in her bedroom,
Speaker 1: so clearly the point here was to get compromising video,
Speaker 1: yes or now no.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Okay, So this is what I think.
Speaker 2: This is my theory. I don't believe the blackmail thing
Speaker 2: at all. I just I don't believe that. I think
Speaker 2: that's an easy way of thinking of it. I think
Speaker 2: it's much scarier than that. I think this is a
Speaker 2: group of people with shared proclivities, and I think they
Speaker 2: used these videos for enjoyment. I do not think he
Speaker 2: held videos over people. I don't think it's that simple.
Speaker 2: If everyone's in on it in the room, who are
Speaker 2: you going to blackmail? Like everybody's in on it, and
Speaker 2: so maybe there was some compromise. I don't know, And
Speaker 2: maybe somebody thinks they were blackmailed, but I think I
Speaker 2: think it made them all in a club, that made
Speaker 2: them vulnerable, and they did it like a ceremonial club thing.
Speaker 2: But yes, I actually was the first to mention the
Speaker 2: pinhole cameras because I reported that to the FBI, because
Speaker 2: that was used over me, you know, by these people.
Speaker 2: So Gaylan and Jeffrey told me that there were pinhole cameras,
Speaker 2: that Wexner outfitted all of his buildings with pinhole cameras.
Speaker 2: So the buildings that weren't owned by Wexner at some point,
Speaker 2: as far as I know, did not have those pinhole cameras.
Speaker 2: But Gaelan and Jeffrey said that Wexner was paranoid and
Speaker 2: that all of these videos dreamed back to New Albany.
Speaker 2: That's what they told me. I'm not you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I didn't see it, but I asked, why,
Speaker 2: why why is everything on video? Right? Because Geelan the
Speaker 2: first time she showed me to intimidate me, she said,
Speaker 2: be careful about you say, because right above he's a
Speaker 2: pinhole camera, see in the limestone right. And then Virginia
Speaker 2: and I and I believe Danny, we were all shown
Speaker 2: the video room where they recorded everything. There were men
Speaker 2: permanently there working and it looked like the old time
Speaker 2: TV stacked, you know, and you know, this is the nineties,
Speaker 2: and people don't understand. We didn't have cell phones. We
Speaker 2: couldn't we didn't have cameras on us, We couldn't record
Speaker 2: anything ourselves. But this is what we witnessed. And since
Speaker 2: three of us witnessed it, it's you know, I think
Speaker 2: these cameras were because he's paranoid, also because of proclivities.
Speaker 2: That's what makes sense to me. It bothers me because
Speaker 2: there's a woman who sold this two parts sleazy book
Speaker 2: about blackmail on our case, and it took away the
Speaker 2: voices of victims. And rewrote the story because that's just
Speaker 2: it just doesn't make sense to me. So now everyone
Speaker 2: believes it's black fail and that's not what I witnessed.
Speaker 2: I witnessed people that were so deeply perverted and enjoyed
Speaker 2: this perversion and shared it with Minnie. Thank you so much,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I'm honored to speak to you. By the way, you
Speaker 2: adorable and Danny adored you two.
Speaker 1: I think the worst part of the whole story is
Speaker 1: that people are bullying you guys.
Speaker 2: I've flung to life through part of it. I've really
Speaker 2: had to. Like, at one point during cancer, I wanted
Speaker 2: to give up, honestly, Like because of Virgin and Mariika,
Speaker 2: I stayed a lot. So it's some of the victims
Speaker 2: that kept me a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have to tell you, like it's so
Speaker 1: inspirational and like you should be so proud of yourself
Speaker 1: for doing you know, like it just I mean, it's
Speaker 1: bravery is contagious, and like your story you getting out
Speaker 1: there and talking to the FBI, it's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know, Annie spoke to them in two
Speaker 2: thousand and six and she was still pretty young and
Speaker 2: she had to go through that.
Speaker 1: It shows that your parents like gave you the fortitude
Speaker 1: to be able to do something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, mother is the most amazing woman in life, and
Speaker 2: she caught us to survive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Thank you so much, Molly.
Speaker 2: Nod Jesse Cannon, Molly.
Speaker 3: I will forgive you if you are a little confused
Speaker 3: with this next headline, because one day you hear tens
Speaker 3: of millions of dollars for IRS settlements. It's billions of dollars,
Speaker 3: all sorts of things with mister Trump. Today's newest one
Speaker 3: is we have a ten billion dollar from the taxpayer's
Speaker 3: bill for Trump's Board of Peace extortion ring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I like that somehow, ten billion dollars. He really loves
Speaker 1: the number of ten billion dollars. That's like kind of
Speaker 1: his thing. He's saying that everybody paid him a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: I bet you none of those people paid him a
Speaker 1: billion dollars. And you know, he had a Board of
Speaker 1: Peace meeting the day that he is putting military airplanes
Speaker 1: and aircraft carriers in the golf.
Speaker 2: To mabe do some kind of bombing.
Speaker 1: So it's all very very non peaceful, this Board of Peace,
Speaker 1: and it has probably a lot more to do with
Speaker 1: cryptocracy than anything else. Also, I like that he said
Speaker 1: it's going to replace the United Nations. And he also said,
Speaker 1: and this is my favorite part of the whole story.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's going to replace the UN and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump will be the head of it forever and
Speaker 1: ever and ever. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear
Speaker 1: the best minds and politics make sense of all this chaos.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a
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