1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Whether you host a nightly dinner party for two or five, 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: keeping your eating and dining area clean helps keep your 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: mind on the dinner party and not on the clean 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: up afterwards. Viva paper towels clean like cloth, trapping splatters 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: and sauces. They could become countertop stains are stuck on messos, 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: and there are two times more durable when wet compared 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: to the leading value brand for an exceptional cloth like 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: paper towel. There's Viva Visit Viva Towels dot com to 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: soak up the clean feeling of home. The Armstrong and 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: Jetty show. So just looking at the Twitter feed of 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of different people even ruined your mood 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: yet uh uh Ian Bremer, who we like around here 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: in terms of him looking at Gego politics and everything 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: like that. Uh. He said, the US fight for tech 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: supremacy versus China has been the single most successful multilateral 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: policy of the Trump administration. And I would imagine he 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: would be talking about one really work in our allies 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: to keep WA way out uh for providing cell phone 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: stuff and five G and all that, and also the 20 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: recent to push against TikTok. I would guess that's what 21 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: he's talking about the most excellent. Jeffrey Fowler has a 22 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: piece in the Washington Post of Lady Is There Tech columnists, 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: and it's entitled is it Time to Delete TikTok? A 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: Guide to the rumors and the real privacy risks. Jeffrey 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: joins us, Now, how are you, jeff I'm pretty good. Good. 26 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you. It's been too long. Uh, 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: and you you've avoided the kid communist bat fever so far? 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: I have, although I'm not certain that's the preferred name 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: at this point around here. It is anyway. Um, So, hey, TikTok. 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: I just urged my daughter to delete it. She did 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: in spite of the incredibly amusing videos we've been sharing 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: over the last several months. So how bad I don't 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: get her to actually delete it? This is this is 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: this is news. Well, it has to do with her 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: career path, a choice in the need for security clearances, 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: I think more than old dad's opinion. But so, how 37 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: bad is TikTok? Well? Look, we've reached a point in 38 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: personal technology where we can't really separate it anymore from geopolitics, 39 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: and that's what makes this such a tricky thing. You 40 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: might remember. Actually last summer we had a big privacy 41 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: freak out about the face app, remember that one, the 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: one did You Look Old? Because it was owned by 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: Russia and people were like, oh my god, the Russians 44 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: have my face pricked out. Some people believe it, some 45 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: people didn't. Didn't turn out to be least so far 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: a very big deal, like they weren't doing much with it. Um. 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: Now we have an even bigger version of that with 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: TikTok because TikTok is even more popular. It's been downloaded 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: more than two billion times UM and and for those 50 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: who haven't followed all the ins and out, it's owned 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: by a company that's based in Beijing. But the tricky 52 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: part about all of this is a is that TikTok 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: the app is not based in China. You actually can't 54 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: even get TikTok the app in China. You can get 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: in the U S and elsewhere. So they're trying to 56 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: thread this very careful needle of being a Chinese owned 57 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: company but not playing by China's rules. And folks, might 58 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: you know remember that China is pretty repressive on the 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: Internet and kind of demands the internet companies, you know, 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: follow all its rules um and hand over data when 61 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: they want to. So because of all that, and there 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: was this big flare up that probably got you and 63 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: your daughter having this conversation, a lot of people said 64 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: we should start deleting uh this TikTok app, you know. Uh. 65 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: The Secretary of State said, like America was considering banning it, 66 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: India actually did ban it. And so we're kind of 67 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, where as I was saying, 68 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: we're in this this mix, where is this like a 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: personal privacy data decision or is this kind of a 70 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: geopolitical who gets to control the data Americans? Uh kind 71 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: of decision um. And it's tough for a lot of people. 72 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot of young people in particular to 73 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: Talks their favorite app and it kind of helping them 74 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: get through the through this uh you know this coronavirus 75 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: shelter at home. It's like, frankly, it's one of the 76 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: few places on the Internet left. It's like just purely 77 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: like joy mostly by people dancing and having fun. Just 78 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: tell people to take it off, you know, it's hard. 79 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm surprised from an app development standpoint that as soon 80 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: as there's bad news about TikTok. Somebody doesn't come up 81 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: with something that's you know, the pepsi to the coke 82 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: of TikTok. It's a different company, but it's in the US. 83 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: You trust it more and it does exactly the same thing. 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: How come that doesn't happen more often? What people have 85 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: been saying that about Facebook for a long time to write, 86 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: But the reality is once with these social networks in particular, 87 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: once you get a certain critical mass of people on 88 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: an app in a space, Um, it's hard to move 89 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: them somewhere else. That's yeah, unless there's something some new 90 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: capability that or new kind of like community that pops 91 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: up somewhere else that offers something different. Um, actually talk, 92 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: you might say the ideas of it. First, we're on 93 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: that app called Vine, remember that one that we're on 94 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: by Twitter, And then they got rid of and so 95 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: that was sort of Twitter screw up because they could 96 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: have had this moment um. But but look, any time 97 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: Americans want to have a conversation about privacy, I'm here 98 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: for it because this is something we don't talk nearly 99 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: enough about. It's an important conversation. Let's get to that. 100 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: In the following way, we actually shared a social media post, 101 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: and granted it was social media, but from a guy 102 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: whose job it is to reverse engineer apps for for 103 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: his tech company, and he said, TikTok makes Facebook look 104 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: like punks when it comes to collecting data. It's way, 105 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: way worse. It is yet to quote him, it is 106 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: essentially malware targeting children. Don't let your friends and family 107 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: use it. So um, I also did uh reverse engineer? 108 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: Looking at that data flowing out of the app. That 109 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: is not what I found. Um definitely takes a lot 110 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: of data. In fact, and first nine seconds when you 111 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: open the app, it takes half megabyte of data, which 112 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: is the equivalent of you printed it out. It's that's amazing. 113 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: If if if if the agreement on any app said, 114 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: even if it didn't get fit specific, it said, we're 115 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: going to take a hundred and twenty five pages of 116 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: information from you in the first nine seconds. Do you agree? 117 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: Nobody would agree to that, right, But let's put that 118 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: in some context. Guests, who takes even more? The federal government? Facebook, 119 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: the federal government. But like Facebook, I mean Facebook has 120 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's enough to like make you go like 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: you want to pull your hair out. Facebook not only 122 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: is gathering data. When you open the Facebook app, Facebook 123 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 1: is tracking you even when you're you have the app 124 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: closed and your phone turned off. Facebook has its hooks 125 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: into so many different parts of American life that that's 126 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: how they're able to come up with these super equally 127 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: targeted ads that appear like and why everybody thinks that 128 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: it must be listening to me because it those that 129 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: I am. I just went to store about guava, and 130 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: it turns out that actually they weren't listening. They just 131 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: saw that you purchase guava at the store because they 132 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: have a deal with Safe Way or whoever. So we've 133 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: gotta put in some context. So what this really comes 134 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: down to. Both companies are in the business of data mining, 135 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: and that is for better for worse, that is the 136 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: leading business model of the Internet today. So it comes 137 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: down to whether you inherently trust American owned companies to 138 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: mine your data more than you trust a Chinese own 139 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: company to mind your data. Jeffrey Fowler, tech columnist of 140 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: the Washington Post on the line, my last question would be, 141 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: if you had it on your phone and now you 142 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: you deleted it and you wish you didn't have it, 143 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: is there anything you can do are you already infected 144 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: with the with TikTok disease? Well, if you have an 145 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: account at TikTok, they can still hold onto the data 146 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: that they gather before you could go in and ask 147 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: them elete the account. And also, you know, here's my 148 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: privacy rule. Um. I think a one mistake that a 149 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: lot of people make is you don't have to give 150 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: these folks your real name, or your real email address, 151 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: or your real phone number or all this kind of stuff. 152 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: Like pseudonyms. They are great. That's what Alexander Hamilton's used 153 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: to write the Federalist papers, right, like make up, make 154 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: up a fake name and be your you know, let 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: your freak flag fly on the internet. Excellent historical pollte advice. 156 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: That is a good idea. Why would you ever sign 157 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: up for anything with your real name, you know, unless 158 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: it's your bank or something. Why would you sign up 159 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: with your real name and phone number for any of them? Yeah, 160 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: before you know you got chairman, shea sifting through your 161 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: panty wants that. Jeffrey Fowler, super informative. Jeff has always 162 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: it's good to talk to you, all right, let's do 163 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: it against so thanks, So I like Jeff. We like Jeff. 164 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: That's why we have him on. I don't have any 165 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: idea um as to anybody's abilities to reverse engineer these things. 166 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: But know this, this social media thing is a floating 167 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: around from this guy who sames he's a nerd who 168 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: figures out how apps works for a job and said 169 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: TikTok is an advertising platform. It is. It is malware 170 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: targeting children. For what it's worth, I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, 171 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: Reddit and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the 172 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: same amount of data the TikTok TikTok does. And the 173 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: main thing with TikTok is they very cleverly hide how 174 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: much they're taking. And you have to be pretty good 175 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: at figuring out how much they're actually stealing from you, 176 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: because you can't just go through the normal ways you 177 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: can go on your phone. Right there's a place you 178 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: can go in your settings and it's always stunning you 179 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: click on the apps and see how much data is 180 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: coming out of these various things. But they have they 181 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: found a way to hide it with TikTok. I I'm 182 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: not a quick to know. You might as well ask 183 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: me to judge ice dancing, although I also feel like 184 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: the general argument of TikTok is just as bad as 185 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: Facebook isn't necessarily an are an endorsement of either doesn't 186 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: work on me, It doesn't work on me. Well that 187 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: stuff he used the word creep aie for Facebook. I 188 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: think that's a good word. That's a perfect word. How 189 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: do you know he used an odd example, how many 190 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: people buy guava on a daily basis? But uh, you 191 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: know I I just go buy some guitar strings. I 192 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: walk out, and all of a sudden they're hammering me 193 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: to buy, you know whatever, a guitar and amp or 194 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: something like that. This is weird. Leave me alone, Mark Zuckerberg, Um, 195 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: I had one more thing. I wanted to say that 196 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: your buddy chairman, she I need a pool looking pastored. 197 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: I like the idea of a fake name, though absolutely. 198 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: I have a dummy email account that I sent up 199 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: for everything. But when every fifteen year old who's starting 200 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: this up is doing so with some sort of however 201 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: small the percentage, Hey, I'm going to become the next 202 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: viral star. You you try to make You're the star 203 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: of your own show, and a lot of these influencer worlds, right, 204 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: So to to create a pseudonym for that is in 205 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: some ways counterproductive for what I think young people in 206 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: particular are trying to accomplish on social media. Yeah, I 207 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: think he was talking to us, the consumers, and that 208 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: sort of thing to do faces who just watch funny 209 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: dog videos for instance, A quick for instance. Um, this 210 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: guy who reverse engineer has said there are a few 211 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: snippets of code in the Android version of the TikTok 212 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: app that allows for the downloading of a remote ZIP file, 213 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: unzipping it, and executing said binary. There's zero reason a 214 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: mobile app would need this function legitimately unless they were 215 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: just trying to steal stuff from you, uh for instance. 216 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: Got to be a reason, not just anti China, that India. Um, 217 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: what Pompeo said the other day, all these companies coming 218 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: forward and saying, hey, what the hell are you doing? 219 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: Am I correct that it's banned on military basis? Oh? 220 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: And I just Sean gave me a question to ask 221 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Jeffrey and I want to I should have. But how 222 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: about Amazon saying they don't want any of their employees 223 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: to have TikTok on their phones, and then they retracted 224 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: and then they apologize Because I think China probably got 225 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: in their underwear and said, hey, you want to keep 226 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: selling your products that we make or something right? 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