1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: I really care about the work. I really care about 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: my communities. I really care about telling stories that take 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: people from my community that have been relegated to the sidelines, 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: that have been uncelebrated or ignored, and moving them into 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: the ecstatic, into this bigness, because that's how I see 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: my people. We loom large, no matter the forces of 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: systemic oppression. Queer people and LATINX people and women, we 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: loom large. 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media, It's Latino USA. I'm Marie Jojosa Today. Poet, 10 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: performer and educator Denise Frohman makes music out of language. 11 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: Poet and spoken word performer froman has been doing her 12 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: thing for more than fifteen years now. 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: The wooden house in Gasanier didn't come with air conditioner 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: or anything cool. 15 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: Her work, impassioned lyrical poetry exploring topics like language, queerness, family, 16 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: and her Puerto Rican heritage, has resonated with audiences across 17 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 2: the US, especially among Latinos and Latinas. 18 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: The heat but its own kind of music, And so 19 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: is Abuela demanding, sharp tongued, the kind of woman I 20 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: imagine whose teekuin because she told them to. 21 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: But when she walks on stage, into the spotlight, staring 22 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: down that microphone. The butterflies still come fluttering back every 23 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: single time. 24 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: There's a lot of nerves. I don't think that they 25 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: ever go away. 26 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: After many years, I think I'm better at coming to 27 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: expect that. Yes, I'll be nervous, and I think that's 28 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: a good thing. It means I care about the work 29 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: and I care about the words, and so I tend 30 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: to take a deep breath. 31 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: Something like that. 32 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: And sort of think about the emotional energy that I 33 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: want to bring, and that also the poem is calling for. 34 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: Denise grew up in New York City in the nineties 35 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: and early two thousands. Before poetry, basketball was her first love. 36 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: She played professionally in Puerto Rico after college. Then she 37 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: pivoted moving to Philadelphia to start a career in the arts. 38 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: For Denise, who's thirty six years old today, performance is 39 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: the heart of her poetry. Denise has performed her spoken 40 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: word on countless stages and venues, including at the Apollo 41 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: Theater in Harlem and in the White House. She's also 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: made waves on major digital platforms, earning millions of views 43 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: on YouTube. Her accomplishments stem from a very personal journey 44 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: one that's looking at embracing her identity as a queer 45 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: New Yureakan. In this episode, Denise tells us about finding 46 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: poetry in different chapters of her life and how telling 47 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: her community's stories became her lifelong mission. 48 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: In high school, I was a captain on my basketball team. 49 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: I did not read or write much for pleasure. 50 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: I had a little notepad that I would sketch sort 51 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: of jokes and rap versus me and my teammates, who 52 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: would freestyle on the. 53 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: A train to the game. 54 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: I didn't think poetry had anything, and for me, it 55 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: sort of felt like a thing of the past if 56 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: I were to measure it up against the narrow blends 57 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: of poetry that I was exposed to in my classrooms. 58 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: Right So, I'm seventeen years old and my best friend 59 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: at the time, who lived in unions where, wanted to 60 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: head to the New Erea Compost Cafe and I'd never 61 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: heard of it before. It was a Friday night slam, 62 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: which is the most popular night during the week. 63 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: It is a packed room. They do you know Burrow 64 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: shoutouts like. 65 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: Queens where you at, you know, Brooklyn, where you at, Bronx, 66 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: where you at I don't know if Staten Island gets 67 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: a shout out, but Jersey gets a shout out. And 68 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: then people from all over the country, you know, and 69 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: all over the world sometimes are in this room. 70 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 4: Right. 71 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: It's a melting pot people of all different ages and 72 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: different ethnicities in the room. But it's also a very 73 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: poc space. And I'm sitting in the back on a 74 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: speaker because there are no more seats left, and there's 75 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: just like a vibration in the room. And I have 76 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: no idea what's about to happen, but all I. 77 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: Know is that it's probably going to change my life. 78 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: I graduated high school with a dangerous misconception that Latino, Latina, 79 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: LATINX people didn't write poetry. I mean, I really hadn't 80 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: read any Puerto Rican poets or LATINX poets as a 81 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: young person. Then I hear poet after poet after poet 82 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: talk about their own identity and belonging and cultural pride 83 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: and the social inequity in the world. So just hearing 84 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: all of these stories really moved me because it shifted 85 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: in a misconception that I had held that was really 86 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: a lie, which was that in order to be a 87 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: poet you had to change how you sounded, and that 88 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: your experience really wasn't enough. I thought in poetry you 89 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: could really only write about nature, and like bees and 90 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: foxes and buffalo and the hillside and growing up in 91 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: New York City. I grew up in Hell's Kitchen. I 92 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about that. My environment, My nature was 93 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: the pigeons on the street. I could describe how gum 94 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: looks when it's been walked over a thousand times and 95 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: it's a black speck of a thing dazzling the sidewalk. 96 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: I could describe to you the sound of the subway, 97 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: what it sounds like when you step on those metal 98 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: doors outside of the bodegas that lead you to their basements. 99 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: Like that was my environment, and hearing that. 100 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: Reflected in real time was such a transformative experience for 101 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: seventeen year old me. I came to poetry through performance, 102 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 1: through listening and hearing poets perform their work on the stage. 103 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: I remember this is during the same period of time, 104 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen years old watching HBO Deaf Poetry Jam and 105 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: watching two New Eurekan poets, Lemon and Flakuonavaja share a 106 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: poem about being Puerto Rican, and they said, to be 107 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: Puerto Rican is to be. 108 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: Fly Tokua is to be so much flying. 109 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: And I was just literally running around the house like 110 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: could not believe what I heard, but I knew that 111 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: this art form was for me. 112 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 5: A few things remind me of New York City summers 113 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 5: and New Yorkan summers and the bedagua. I remember as 114 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 5: I got older, they were harder and harder to find 115 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 5: because they were moving out of our neighbors. 116 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 4: They were being pushed out of the neighborhoods. 117 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 5: And so it's really a conversation and gentrification and displacement too. 118 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: So this is a queer girl's ode to the be 119 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: dog widow. 120 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 4: Oh bea dog waddo, my first lover, the only man 121 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: I ever wanted anything from. I sprinted half blocks for you, 122 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 4: got off the bus two stops early, took the long 123 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: way home just to see your rainbow, umbrella, beat, aguado, candy, 124 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 4: cool syrup, god body, guap, batmobile, wooden cart, pushing bob 125 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 4: sledd boppy. 126 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: Seeing poets on the stage really resonated with me. I 127 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: grew up in a very artsy environment. My father played 128 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: saxophone and flute for Tito Quente for twenty five years. 129 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: So I come from a pretty musical background, and to me, 130 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: language has always been physical. My mom was born in 131 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: a small campo in Puerto Rico and tre a junta 132 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: sen lattis, and so I come from. 133 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: People who tell stories with their whole. 134 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 4: Bodies, who raised hell when they nicknamed your island delicacy, 135 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 4: snow cone or worse shaved ice. I trusted you the Hallelujah. 136 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 4: I trusted you the hallelujah work of your bare hands. 137 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: I don't see the page and stage as separate because 138 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: oral tradition is incredibly valuable to our communities. The spoken 139 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: word is as old as time if you think about 140 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: the song's song, or the way that news was delivered, 141 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: the way that histories were passed down, orally. Growing up 142 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: in a household where I heard salsa, my mom's first 143 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: language is Spanish, where I heard these rhythms out loud, 144 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: it trained my ear to sort of listen to the 145 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: temperature of language. 146 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: I fell in love with how words made you feel 147 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: through tone and pitch and inflection. 148 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: If you listen to a salsa song, you don't necessarily 149 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: need to know what the words are saying to understand 150 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: the emotional temperature in that song. Sometimes I like to 151 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: think of like the rhythm in my work as if, 152 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: like Joe Cuba's Boogloo song, do. 153 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: You feel It? Dolo Sientes. 154 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: Had a baby with Dido Puentez Rang Ganggang And I 155 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: know that maybe ambitious, but I think it's probably the 156 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: closest descriptor that I've had to sort of the rhythm 157 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: and the musicality in my work, which I think is 158 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: a big part of also my performance. Performance to me 159 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: is an internal rhythm externalized. It's not another body, It's 160 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: just an extension of the body of the poem. 161 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: I'm nineteen years old. 162 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: I had been going to workshops at Urban Word NYC, 163 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: which is a youth poetry organization in New York City. 164 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: I had been writing poems, filling up notebooks, performing at 165 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: rallies and open mics as much as I could. At 166 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: the same time, I'm really starting to step into my 167 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,239 Speaker 1: identity in a lot of ways, but in particular discovering 168 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: my sexuality and discovering my queerness. And I remember I 169 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: was performing a poem at the New York a Poet's 170 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: Cafe about this girl. And I remember up until that point, 171 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: I had been changing the pronouns in the poem to 172 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: he instead of she because I was not out, and 173 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: that night at the Neurekin, I had no plans to 174 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: stop doing that. But when I got up to the stage, 175 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: when I got onto the microphone and I closed my 176 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: eyes and I took that deep breath, something said to 177 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: me that poetry is asking me to be a little 178 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: bit braver tonight. And when I looked out into the 179 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: audience I cared for, I felt like I could take 180 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: that risk. I was terrified, but I also remember after 181 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: getting off that stage feeling like it was the beginning 182 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: of a new chapter of my life. That if I 183 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: was going to be authentic in my poetry, I had 184 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: to start being authentic in my real life. I don't 185 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: know when I would have come out had it not 186 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: been for poetry pushing me and giving me the strength 187 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: that I didn't have at that time. And when I 188 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: say poetry, I don't just mean the words and the stories, 189 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: but I also mean the vibrant community of other young 190 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: writers that I was building with. Feeling held and supported 191 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: by them was also a big part of it for me. 192 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: Dear straight people, who do you think you are. 193 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: A lot of people, initially in a national sense, got 194 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: to see my work when Dear Straight People went viral 195 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: around twenty thirteen. 196 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: And the interesting thing about. 197 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: That is that I was performing at the Woman of 198 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: the World Poetry Slam and there was a camera in 199 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: the back of the room and I had no idea 200 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: it was there. 201 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: I had no idea someone was filming. 202 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: This ended up becoming one of Button Poetry's first videos 203 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: that they put up, and I think one of the 204 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: first ones that went viral. So my audience grew after 205 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: that with a couple of other poems that also circulated widely, 206 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: which was cool, but not anything that I planned. I 207 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: was just creating work that was meaningful to me at 208 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: the time. To your queer young girl, I see you, 209 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: you don't want them to see you, so you change 210 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: the pronouns and your love poems to him instead of her. 211 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: I used to do that, do you straight people. It's 212 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: one thing to share your work when no one is 213 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: really watching. This is before the invention of YouTube. Do 214 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: you know where it's just you and your notebook and 215 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: you could be sharing a poem in real time and 216 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: no one's going to upload it for thousands of people to. 217 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: See or hundreds of people to see. Right. 218 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: But I think as my audience has grown over time, 219 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: and with social media and YouTube and just all of 220 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: these platforms where anybody can be filming you, I've had 221 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: to learn to be a little bit more patient with 222 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: myself and to be more intentional with what I'm ready 223 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: to share. I think the rule of thumb for me is, 224 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: if I share this poem, am I able to talk 225 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: about it and answer questions about it in a way 226 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: where I'm not a wreck afterwards? And if I'm a 227 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: wreck afterwards, am I prepared for that too? 228 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 6: Right? 229 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: I don't know that I had. 230 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: Those questions when I was younger. I just wanted to 231 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: make sure my family didn't find out that I was 232 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: gay and that I was sharing poems about girls that 233 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: I thought were cute. 234 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 3: So I think over time it's changed. 235 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: And as someone who loves working with young people and 236 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: they're part of my audience, I want to be able 237 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: to show up for them as much as I can 238 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: with their questions, and so I have to be embodied 239 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: and I have to be in a strong enough headspace 240 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to sort of hold all of that. I think about 241 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: something Douglas Kerney said, he's an amazing poet and performer. 242 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: I was in a work shop with him and he 243 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: had this really great analogy about performing really vulnerable work 244 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: and how to decide, you know, whether to share something 245 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: in public or not yet, and he said, you know, 246 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: I hope I get this right. But he says, in 247 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: jiu jitsu, you don't give up the most vulnerable part 248 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: of yourself. You don't let yourself get cut in a 249 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: place you're already deeply wounded. And maybe that's the part 250 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: of yourself you don't give up. You don't show yet 251 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: because it's just too tender. But here are the other 252 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: parts of yourself that you feel a little bit more 253 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: ready for. Meant something that I think about and hold 254 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: on to. I grew up playing basketball in New York 255 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: City playgrounds at the pl at Millbank at Riverside Church 256 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: for aau from when I was seven until my early twenties. 257 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: I got a basketball scholarship athletic scholarship to play at 258 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: a Division two school in Long Island, and I played 259 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico professionally. Right after college for a year. 260 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: I got an invitation to work out with the national team. 261 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: I went down there and was subsequently invited back to 262 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: participate in the upcoming season. I played for the Catalantis 263 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: for a little while and then I was traded lol 264 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: to Adrasibo, where my abuela lived for many years, where 265 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: my deo lived, and it was the first time I 266 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: went to Puerto Rico without my mom. It was the 267 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: first time I went to Puerto Rico and it wasn't 268 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: a family trip, and so I started to build a 269 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: relationship with the island on my own through that season 270 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: playing basketball. I went down there speaking you know, my 271 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Spanish was not the best, and I left and I 272 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: was almost fluent, and I got to spend so much 273 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: quality time with my theos and myds. I was driving 274 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: all over the island. It was just such an amazing experience. 275 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: Beyond the basketball part. It was so much bigger than basketball. 276 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: It was really the beginning of me building a relationship 277 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: with Puerto Rico as an adult in all my own terms. 278 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: It's so top of mine right now because I've been 279 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: working on these basketball sonnets, and for a long time 280 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: I thought basketball and poetry were completely separate chapters of 281 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: my life. 282 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: So it's been so interesting. 283 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: To return back to that time and actually to realize 284 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: that poetry and basketball have a deeply symbiotic relationship in 285 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: my life. The court was a sight of becoming for me. 286 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: Of so many stories, I learned the language of my 287 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: body on. 288 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: The basketball court. 289 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: Basketball is a performance art. It is where craft meets intuition. 290 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: It is creative. Basketball is about making an expectation and 291 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: breaking it. 292 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: Curl behind the back. 293 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 3: What does Steph Curry do right? 294 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: A spectacular move that could be the greatest grove? 295 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: What does Damian Lillard do? What did Alan Iverson do 296 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: with the deadly Crosserman? He made you think he was 297 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 3: going one way and he went another. 298 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: That's what makes us lean in when we hear a 299 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: song or a poem, that element of surprise, right, the 300 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: undoing of the expectation. I think you're talking about a flower, 301 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: what you're actually talking about is maybe you're a willow. 302 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 3: Or the way that he looked at you. 303 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: So I I see so much crossover excuse no pun 304 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: intended between basketball and poetry. I didn't set out to 305 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,239 Speaker 1: be a poet and to do this full time. I 306 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: would be writing poems regardless. It's like air for me. 307 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: You know, I got my master's in education, I got 308 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: a certificate in secondary ED. I was prepared to be 309 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: a high school English teacher, which I was very excited about. 310 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: I moved to Philadelphia around two thousand and eight, and 311 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: I was still writing poetry and performing poetry and building 312 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: relationships with people in the literary scene here and you know, 313 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: performing at rallies and doing the things that were important 314 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: to me. And luckily I got a grant from the 315 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: Leeway Foundation here and it enabled me to take that 316 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: first leap to go full time. Sometimes I have to 317 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: pinch myself, like when I was at the White House 318 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: and the Apollo. 319 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 3: I had to pinch myself for sure. But it didn't 320 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: happen overnight. 321 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: And I still feel like I'm still an emerging writer, 322 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, in some respects, depending on the faith. The 323 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: most dangerous part of a wealthy man is his index finger, 324 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: what he points to. Who he lands on a civilization, 325 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: disposable income, pirate and cargo short New World Old order. Meanwhile, 326 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: we diaspora, separated by sea and cut them. 327 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: On the same angle. 328 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: Our mothers taught us to clap on the plane lands 329 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: on either shore. I really care about the work, I 330 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: really care about my communities. I really care about telling 331 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: stories that take people from my community that have been 332 00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: relegated to the sidelines, that have been uncelebrated, and moving 333 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: them into the ecstatic, into this bigness, because that's how 334 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: I see my people. 335 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 3: We loom large. 336 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: No matter the forces of systemic oppression, Queer people and 337 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: Latin X people and women, we loom large. I just 338 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: hope to put my head down and create work that 339 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: means something to me and hopefully others as well. And 340 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: I hope to get it all down before my time 341 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: is up. And I know in my family, if I 342 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: don't document some of this stuff, some of these stories, 343 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: they won't be told. And if they're not told, then 344 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: they may not be remembered. That to me is what 345 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: I'm up against. I think is not wanting to pass 346 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: with all these stories in my body, you know. 347 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 3: I want to get it all out before it's too late. 348 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: Denise is currently putting together her debut collection of poetry. 349 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: She's also working on capturing stories of queer Latina elders 350 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: and writing about climate solutions. This episode was produced by 351 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 2: Alejandra Sarrasad and edited by Daisy Contreras and mixed by 352 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: JJ carubin the Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, 353 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Julia Ta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Rinaldo 354 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: Lerios Junior, Patricia Sulbaran and Julia Rocha, with help from 355 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: Raoul Berees. Our editorial director is Fernandes Sanchos. Special thanks 356 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 2: to the Adrian Brinkerhoff Poetry Foundation, the ninety second Street 357 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: Walk and Matthew Thompson. Additional thanks to Button Poetry. Our 358 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: Director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebau. Our senior engineer is 359 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 2: Julia Crusse. Our associate engineer is Gabriel Abiez. Our marketing 360 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 2: manager is Luis Luna. Listen to all of our Latino 361 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: USA podcast episodes on Amazon Music. Our theme music was 362 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: composed by Sane Rubinos. I'm your host and executive producer 363 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: Marie jo Josa. Join us again on our next episode. 364 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: In the meantime, look for us on all of your 365 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: social media and remember de vyas CEO. 366 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 6: Latino USA is made possible in part by New York 367 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,479 Speaker 6: Women's Foundation. The New York Women's Foundation funding women leaders 368 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 6: that build solutions in their communities and celebrating thirty years 369 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 6: of radical generosity, The John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur 370 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 6: Foundation and the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the 371 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 6: frontlines of social change worldwide. 372 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 3: Okay, we're back. Why do I feel like Alice piazz 373 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: in the L Word? What was the pot gosh? I 374 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 3: can't remember her pot oh. It was called the chart. 375 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: I think it was called the chart. Okay, it doesn't matter, 376 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 3: but gay references 377 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 4: M