1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: And so not acknowledging your feelings is not the absence 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: of having a feeling. It's just I think of feelings 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: as energy, and it's just shoving that would just be 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: shoving energy in places where it doesn't really belong. And 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: when you shove energy in a place that doesn't belong, 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: then you're displacing what belongs there, and it's gonna something's 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: gonna come outsideways. Hi, guys, and welcome back to You 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Need Therapy. I'm your host, Cat, and I am very 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: excited that you guys are listening to this episode right now. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: I think that this one is one of the most 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: important episodes of them all. I go through all of 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: the feelings with my friend and fellow therapists and Nashville Megan. 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: You probably already used to Megan because she's been in 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: the past two episodes if you've listened to those, and 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: she's really wise and I'm really grateful that she has 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: been able to be on a good chunk of episodes 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: with me um. So again today we go through all 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: the feelings. Keep in mind, these are the feelings that 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: we're using today. There's more. These are the ones that 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: we kind of decided we're going to use and keep 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: as stakeholders in our offices in the work what we do, 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: but I don't want you to get too stuck on 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: like these are the only ones ever that exist. What 24 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: we do is we go through what happens when we're 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: aware of our feelings and what happens when we're not 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: aware of them, the gifts that they give us, and 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: what can happen um and what they can take away 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: from when we don't listen to them or notice them. 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: So um, I hope you enjoyed listening to it. You 30 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: can follow me at at cat Defata. You can follow 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: the podcast at at you Need Therapy Podcast. And also 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: if you guys are not part of the Self Love Club, 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: that is the newsletter that I send out every Monday 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: when a new episode drops, you can sign up for 35 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: that yourself and subscribe to it at you Need Therapy 36 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. There's a pop up that comes up 37 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: and you can score to the bottom and sign up 38 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: that way as well. Make sure to check out our 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: March store. We have a couple of things on there 40 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: that are really cute and fun. While you're there, and 41 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this episode, all right, welcome back. 42 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here. This is so fun. Um, 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: welcome back, guys. It is who knows we lost count 44 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: of the episodes because we just have been doing this 45 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: for so long by now. I think this would be 46 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: episode four of Us Together, is it? Oh? Yeah, fourth 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: the anniversary. I don't know if we're going to count 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: the ones before we joined up, but here's those counts. 49 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: A lot of hard work, solo adventuring you're not doing 50 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: what the hell I was doing. Um okay, well, welcome guys, 51 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in today. We have 52 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: a really exciting episode that I think is going to 53 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: be crucial in the development of every human being. We're 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: talking about feelings, so many feels, all of the feelings. 55 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: Um so, there's a lot of misconception with feelings and 56 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 1: um so we're going to talk about those before we 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: really get in all of that. What I want to 58 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: start with is, I know, like when I just said that, 59 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: I got this like feeling in my body. And I 60 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: think that's because a lot of times people will have 61 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: an idea that feelings are bad or scary or wrong, 62 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: painful and all that, and maybe some of that might 63 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: be true. Um, but feelings aren't good or bad. Um, 64 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: they just are things and I like to think of them. 65 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: And I know, Megan, you agree with me, correct hopefully, 66 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: and I agree. You're gonna agree with you. You're gonna 67 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: agree with whatever I say, so I'm so agreeable. Yes, yes, 68 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: So feelings aren't going to bad. They just are and 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: they are what I like to think of them as 70 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: are tools essentially, or guides. So there are things that 71 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: can lead us to what we need, and we can 72 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: look at them that way. Then to me, it's a 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: little less terrifying. I mean, I think since you love 74 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: to talk about food and body and all that stuff, 75 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of what's going on in diet culture and 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: food culture of labeling these foods as good or bad. 77 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: And there are definitely foods that are more helpful to 78 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: eat than other foods at certain times. Um, and feelings 79 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: are sort of similar. The feelings themselves are not good 80 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: or bad. It's really the labels that we're attaching to them, 81 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: or the judgments that we're attaching to them that make 82 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: them have so much charge around them. Yes, that's good. 83 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: Little was that analogy or a metaphor? I never know. 84 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, because no, what analogy is when 85 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: you say, like a metaphor, I when you say it is, 86 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't really know it. Hey, Siri, what's the difference 87 00:04:53,760 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: between a metaphor and an analogy? Um? I found okay, 88 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: I was right, though, I think I'm right. Oh gosh, 89 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: now they're adding similar in here? Is that what it's called. 90 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what a similar is. I really need 91 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: each other this because I feel like people tell me 92 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: a lot that I'm good at, like pictures, and I'm 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: always a metaphor. And an analogy is when no, this 94 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: is analogy is when you say if the analogies when 95 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: you had those colon's when you did in school and 96 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: it was like, this is like what are we talking about? 97 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: I think we're just getting a real life picture into 98 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: our life kind of like earlier. We will get into 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: this later when we're like arguing about what the primary 100 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: colors are and I'm like, let's just ask. Okay. So 101 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: a metaphor is a noun. It's a figure of speech 102 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: in which a word or phrase is applied to an 103 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: object or action to which it's not literally applicable. Her 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor a thing regarded as 105 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract. The 106 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: amounts of money being lost by the company were enough 107 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: to make it a metaphor or for an industry that 108 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: was teetering. Wait, to be honest, I didn't this is anything. 109 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: I just said, this is making my life complicated ways Megan. 110 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: And a metaphor is when you describe something in another way. 111 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: So when I say, when I give a metaphor, metaphor 112 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: would be like when I say, well, you're about to 113 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: give a metaphor. Yeah, should we just show Oh my god, Okay, 114 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: I hope that you guys are still listening, but Megan's 115 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: about to hit you with a metaphor with feelings hit it. Yes, 116 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: I clearly like metaphors, which were still a little confused 117 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: about it. If any of our listeners are English people 118 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: out there, just let us know about metaphors or analogies. 119 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, UM, a story I really like to tell 120 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: around feelings has to do with me living in Africa, 121 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: which I think you know I lived there, Yeah, because 122 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: we've talked about that. Um, when I was living overseas 123 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: in Uganda, there was I would give it in the 124 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: car with different people. I would like to say it 125 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: was like uber, but it wasn't. It was really like 126 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: I was taking I'd be taking a taxi somewhere and 127 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: a lot of times I get in the car and 128 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: they would have this like black electrical tape all over 129 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: the dashboard and so you could kind of see the pedometer, 130 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: but like then everywhere else was just like taped. And 131 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: one time I asked the driver, I was like, hey, 132 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: you know this is after a long time of living there, 133 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, the people put tape over this. 134 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: I wonder why that is. And people they are really 135 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: were really resourceful and that kind of thing. But one 136 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: time I asked, I was like, what's all that tape for? 137 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, so I don't have to 138 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: see all the lights on the dashboard that are on. 139 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: And he pulled the tape off and there was just 140 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: like this whole dashboard and the lights on. What did 141 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: I do? I literally thought to myself, that is genius. 142 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: It's like I'm going to do that. I'm just gonna 143 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: put tape on my dashboard so I don't have to 144 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: pay attention to any of these lights. And it wasn't 145 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: until I really did think it was genius, and I 146 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: like thought, maybe, you know, that would be a good 147 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: strategy to implement for myself, and really like, if we 148 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: look at that, that's what a lot of us are 149 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: doing with feelings. Like when a light comes on on 150 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: my dashboard that says like, hey, your gaslights is on. 151 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: If I listen to that and it's in like it's 152 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: helpful place, I'm like, cool, let's go get some gas. 153 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: If I'm like, I'm just going to ignore that, which 154 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: I may or may not do a lot. Um, you 155 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: can ignore your gaslight for a little bit. Most people's 156 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: comes on around fifty miles still empty and a lot 157 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: of cars. Can I tell you go for it? Well, 158 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm so I ignore my That's not surprising because I've 159 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: been taught that, Like when your gaslight comes on, you 160 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: have a while, Yeah you do. Well. I was leaving, 161 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: Um it was in the morning. I was like leaving 162 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: to go to work, and I was like I was 163 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: actually early, and I was like loving it, and that 164 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: was killing it. I turned onto a very busy street 165 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: and my car just stops, literally just stops, and I 166 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: had to stop it in the middle of the road. 167 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: And ever, just like honky whatever, and so I'm freaking out. 168 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I blew up my engine. Oh my god. 169 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: Like called my boyfriend that I was daidy and he 170 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: was like, what do you want me to do? And 171 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: I was like, fine, I'll just called my dad. You're useless. 172 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: And that was the whole thing. But then, um my, 173 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: my family was like, there's no way it was your 174 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: and it's probably an electrical thing, blah blah blah. It's 175 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: there's no way it was your, Like you needed to 176 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: get your oil change whatever, and so I had to 177 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: get towed whatever. Oh my gosh. I went to the 178 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: car place to pick up and he was like, yeah, 179 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: there's no way that this was because you needed your 180 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: oil change. And then he called me and it was 181 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: like six and he was like, by the way, you 182 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: needed oil in your car. This is the most expensive 183 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: oil change you will ever have in your life. Did 184 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: you have an oil light on or anything? Yeah? Had, 185 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: Well that's that light that was on. The check engine 186 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: light was on. But in check I said that you 187 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: had like fifty I thought you had a while. So 188 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: any really amazing example of what happens when you ignore it, 189 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: When we ignore feelings like this, light comes on, had 190 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: you been like, cool, I'm gonna go check my engine. 191 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: I was like, this is this Yeah, and it's like 192 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: now I'll ignore it. I'll ignore it. I'll ignore it. 193 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: I'll ignore it, and your car it blows up. I 194 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: couldn't sort of in the middle of the road. Then 195 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: you have to go and pay all this money to 196 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: fix it and all because you didn't like listen to 197 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: the light when it came on, and the light was 198 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: trying to help me. Was a guy telling me what 199 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: I needed? Yeah, exactly, I laughed. Because when I was 200 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: in subber living after got out of treatment, I went 201 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: to sober living in Los Angeles, and the number of 202 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: times I didn't have a car out there but some 203 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: people did if they had been there longer, if they 204 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: lived out there or whatever. The number of times I 205 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: was with people who ran out of gas I think 206 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: in three months it was like six times. One of 207 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: my friends was like, a triple A has a limit 208 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: on how many times you can get them to bring 209 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: you gas. And I look back and I'm like, yeah, 210 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: like that's how disconnected we all were from anything, Yeah, 211 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: from our feelings, from gaslights, by anything. Like, we just 212 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: kept driving and running out of gas. Yeah, oh my god. 213 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: And so I like the car example. I'm that's awesome 214 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: that you jumped in and had a real life, practical example. 215 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: But it's like sometimes lights in my car come on 216 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: and I'm like no, or like this is good, this 217 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: is bad. There's so much judgment. But when I engine 218 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: lights on, yeah, when we really stepped back and it's 219 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: like okay, like what is this alerting me that I 220 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: need to do? And what do I want to do 221 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: about now? Or do I want to ignore it? It's 222 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: thank God that I have the ability to have a 223 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: light turn on, right, even though I don't want to 224 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: go pay the seventy dollars it's gonna cost. Thank god. 225 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: Else I would just stop in the middle of the 226 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: road all the time, right if you had no lights 227 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: coming on. I'm not sure if that's a metaphor or 228 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: an analogy, but like here or similar, but here we 229 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: are either way, whatever the English, it's something proper term 230 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: it is. I hope that as people are listening to 231 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: this driving around or going about your life, that really 232 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: like we can take a new approach. I'm looking at feelings, 233 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: even if that is a picture that you hold like 234 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: covering them up with some tape might sound like a 235 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: genius idea, but all of those lights are eventually going 236 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: to catch up to you. And when we're not judging 237 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: them and letting them be teachers to actually keep us safe, 238 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: it's really a lot more helpful than what we do 239 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the times. Yes. Um, So what we're 240 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: gonna do today is we're going to talk about why 241 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: we should lean into our feelings instead of suppress them. Um. 242 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: And we're going to go through each feeling, which we've 243 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: picked a couple, but we're going to go We literally 244 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: fought over who was going to do which each feeling, 245 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: so my we didn't fight with discussion, but we drafted that. 246 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: We drafted the feelings. So what's your first You did say, like, 247 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: what's your first pick? I didn't even think about that. Actually, 248 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: now I feel bad for the ones that got picked last. 249 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: What was your first pick? Uh? With it? Fear? Oh yeah, 250 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: you did pick fear first, you know, I think? Um Okay, 251 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: So with that being said, we're going to go into 252 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: all that. We're going to go into each one and 253 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the helpful the way that 254 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: they can be helpful if you're aware of them and 255 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: the ways they can be unhelpful if you stay unaware 256 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: to your feelings as and if you take the tape 257 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: off the dashboard or you put it on, and so 258 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: anything else you want to say on that, Yeah, I 259 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: mean I think some of what you're talking about too. 260 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: You were saying so many helpful things when we were 261 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: even preparing for the episode just about like we were 262 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: going back and forth talking about the number one symptom 263 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: of a dysfunctional family or that you grew up in 264 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: a dysfunctional family is the ability is not having the 265 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: ability to name or express feelings. And just everybody knows 266 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: if you have a family, it's probably at some level dysfunctional. 267 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: Of this together, Yeah, so that's really not intended to 268 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe it is intended to create feelings that I just 269 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: said that, but yeah, going back to that really is 270 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,479 Speaker 1: a symptom of a lot of other stuff that's that's underneath. 271 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: And also before we get started, let's talk about for 272 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: a second, how all of these symptoms that we might 273 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: have um as in things that we don't want to 274 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: be doing or living in or leaning into, like being passive, aggressive, 275 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: self loathing, being codependent, um not having the ability to 276 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: say no, Um, drug abuse, any eating disorder, be behaviors, isolating. 277 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: All of those behaviors that we use that end up 278 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: being maladaptive are symptoms of a feelings disease. And that 279 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: feelings disease would be not being able to feel your feelings. 280 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: So those are ways to suppress our feelings. UM suppressed 281 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: and I avoid. I know, I just have more. You know, 282 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: like even if you break down the word disease, it's disease, 283 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm like to make a count every time you have 284 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: like a what is that called? That's not a metaphor? 285 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: Is similarly, but what is that kind of thing called 286 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: some word thing? You have a word thing for every word? 287 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: I know, but I don't know if that's who I 288 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: am or if that's like you guys I've done so 289 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: it's treatment. Do you make them up yourself? Um? The stories, 290 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: I definitely, I think I just see things in pictures 291 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: now that the disease thing. I'm sure I've heard that 292 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: somewhere there are god that I used to work with 293 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: and when I was an adventure therapist always talked about 294 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: that the disease, it's dis ease. You always exaggerated, But 295 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: I think really looking at it, it is important to 296 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: know aside from all my I don't know if they're corny, 297 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: but my they're helpful, helpful, my helpful catch phrases. I 298 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: just always feel like I'm like a woman on working 299 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: in like a treatment facility like the movie twenty eight Days. 300 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: Have you seen that with Sandra Bola. I'm like, I 301 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: am that lady. Um. But I think it really is 302 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: important to know because we get so judgmental of like 303 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: all of these symptoms and it's I'm gonna do it again. 304 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: It's like being sick, like if you have a running 305 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: nose and a fever and a cough and all this stuff, 306 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: like those are all symptoms of a virus or a 307 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: bacterial infection or whatever. And so we walk around like 308 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: with all sorts of symptoms like you've already named, judging 309 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: them when really most of them come from avoiding our feelings. 310 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: And also like avoiding our feelings helped us serve live 311 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: in our families or in places that it wasn't safe 312 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: to feel feelings totally. So Cat, will you tell us, 313 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: since we we've already determined what kind of core feelings 314 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: we're going to use, will you give us a rundown 315 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: of the ones we're going to use and why we 316 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: chose those. Yes, I would love to. Okay, so here's 317 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: the deal about the feelings we're going to go through. 318 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: If I said, actually, my friends love making fun of 319 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: me for this perfect because I'll ask people like what 320 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: they're feeling and they'll say a random word and I'm like, 321 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: that's not a feeling. Um. But there's a lot of 322 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: words you can describe used to describe essentially how you 323 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: are feeling. There are certain words that are feelings. Now 324 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: in that there are a ton of actual feelings a billion. 325 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: We narrow this down to eight we're going to talk 326 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: about today. Do you want to talk about the colors 327 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm filing because Cat said a billion and I was 328 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: thinking of like Austin Powers, like one billion dollar I've 329 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: never seen. Um. Anyway, I want to talk about that. 330 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: I will give the example of the primary colors because 331 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: sometimes when people in my office, when I'm saying, like, 332 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: what do you feel? And I have a list of 333 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: eight feelings and I'm like, how about looking at that, 334 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: It's like they're like, why don't have to use this? 335 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: A you know, why are there's seven good ones? Or 336 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: bad ones and one good one. But I'm like, there 337 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: is nothing special about this list of eight feelings, Like 338 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: these are kind of umbrella feelings with lots of other 339 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: feelings underneath them. So if somebody says they feel frustrated, 340 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm just like, Okay, that goes under kind of like 341 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: an anger umbrella, and which is kind of like the 342 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: primary colors, which we actually did establish our red, blue, 343 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: and yellow, so those are the primary colors, and then 344 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: there's like a billion billion underneath. They're like magenta is 345 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: I think, and probably in the red family or whatever. 346 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: And so even when we're talking, we're going to use 347 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: eight feelings that are just sort of core feelings that 348 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: people use, like primary colors and most treatments, energism, a 349 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: lot of therapists use a core feelings list. They're not 350 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: exactly this eight. They're interchangeable. But these are not the 351 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: like holy grail of feelings. These are just the eight 352 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: that Cat and I decided to decided to use and 353 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: use in our office. So here's here's the actual feelings. 354 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: If you don't, if you've never been in our office, 355 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: you've never seen the laminated piece of paper on the floor. 356 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: We have lonely, hurt, fear, glad, sad, anger, shame, and guilt. 357 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: Did I get all those? Boom? All right, So here 358 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: is the deal with all that. Um, We're going to 359 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: go through all of them, and we're going to talk 360 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: about the gifts of being aware and unaware of all that. 361 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: We're going to do that. But before we get into that, 362 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: I will say that everybody has all of them. You 363 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: have all definitely I have all of them. Everybody has 364 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: all of them, and so not acknowledging your feelings is 365 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: not the absence of having a feeling. It's just I 366 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: think of feelings as energy, and it's just shoving that 367 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: would just be shoving energy in places where it doesn't 368 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: really belong. And when you shove energy in a place 369 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: that doesn't belong, then you're displacing what belongs there, and 370 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: it's gonna something's gonna come outside ways. So let's all 371 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: just really be honest with ourselves. We all have these things. 372 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: You have lots of feelings, and so nobody's immune for 373 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: being feeling scared, nobody's immune for feeling anger. We all 374 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: have it. Um. And then the other part is everybody 375 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: has well most everybody has. I would say a start 376 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: gate feeling. So we all essentially are really comfortable with 377 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: one or two feelings, and well, when we have a 378 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: burst of energy or emotion would go straight there, and 379 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: we might go there because it feels more comfortable, and 380 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: then I would call that your primary feeling. And then 381 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: there's something underneath that. If you talk about what your 382 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: start gate feeling is, yeah, I don't care, so I 383 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: being a real life client, my start gate feelings UM 384 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: would be fear. So I think this is different than 385 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: what I said earlier. So loneliness isn't my start gate feeling. 386 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: I just feel it a lot. My start gate feeling 387 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: is fear. I wake up every single day with fear. 388 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: It's always there. Now, underneath my fear, there might be 389 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: like sadness around something, or loneliness in something, or hurt, 390 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: but I always go to fear first. I think the 391 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: most common that I see start gate feeling is anger 392 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: and other people. And I think that's because UM anger 393 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: is something that can be really socially accepted when it's 394 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: compared too sad. So it's easier at work. If you 395 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: think in the office, if you see somebody huffing and 396 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: puffing and going around somebody angry that's more socially accepted 397 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: than somebody at their cubicle crying, you know. Yeah, And 398 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: even if we go, I'm sure we'll do an episode 399 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: eventually on Angiogram. But you can break each of the 400 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: three burns down into different triads. So really like sevens, 401 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: for example, us are in the fear triad, and then 402 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: you've got people eight, nine and one are in the 403 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: anger triad, Two three, and four are in the shame triad, 404 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: and then five, six and seven in fear, and so 405 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: really those three tend to be the most primary start 406 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: gate emotions. But I really like that you are naming 407 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: that and then talking like we all have stuff underneath that. 408 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: You're just fear too. Yeah, mine's fear too. It's I 409 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: tell people all the time, it's like the wires get 410 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: cross in our heads sometimes. So I'll immediately if I 411 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: have a feeling, any feeling, I immediately feel anxious. And 412 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: part of my own work has been like slowing down 413 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: enough to be like, okay, I feel so anxious. I'm 414 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: feeling so much fear, And then now I've learned to 415 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: almost I just laugh at myself because I'm like, I 416 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: actually feel sad. But my body is translating that as 417 00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: fear or I'm actually feeling happy, and I feel fear 418 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: or in my body, and so I've really had to 419 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: learn how to make peace with that and let it 420 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: be what it is, but then also being curious about 421 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: what else is there. You know, what's coming up for 422 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: me is, Yeah, a lot of people are asleep to 423 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: their feelings, and how would you tell how do you 424 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: tell your clients how to wake up to that? Because 425 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: I do have a lot of people that are like, 426 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel this? And how do 427 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: you walk somebody through? Because we're going to walk them 428 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: through the feelings, but how do you walk them through 429 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: becoming aware of them? Yeah, that's a great question. I 430 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: think the first thing I mean, you know this, I 431 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: do a lot of somatic work, so noticing what's happening 432 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: in your body, but really the first thing that happens 433 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: is being curious about what's going on. So the next 434 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: time that somebody, like even for listeners to think about, 435 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: or even when I'm working with the client, I'm doing 436 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: a lot of like what do you feel right now? 437 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: And say I'm working with somebody who it goes immediately 438 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: to anger. I'm like, okay, I know you feel anger. 439 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: Let's pause, like what else might you feel? Um? And 440 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: so really starting with this place of acknowledging the big 441 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: feeling like yes, we know, like I know with myself, 442 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: I'm always going to fear my body like those that 443 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: neuropathway is ingrained, and then really being curious about like 444 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: what else might I feel other than fear? Is a 445 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: really helpful place to start. Yeah, and then you know, 446 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: like therapy, group therapy. I would add to that is 447 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: like if you're if you guys are out there thinking 448 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I want to be able to I 449 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: want to learn about the feelings and I want to 450 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: learn how to be attuned to them. My suggestion to 451 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: you would be defined when you feel a lot of 452 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: energy in your body, When your body feels really energized. 453 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: To me, I take that as anxiety when I have 454 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: an energy, but it could be anything. Um. When you 455 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: feel an energy in your body, allow yourself to slow 456 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: down and check in. So it's really just slowing down. 457 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: A lot of times we're go, go, go, and we 458 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: don't want to feel the feelings, so we run, run, run, 459 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: and we use that energy to run rather than to 460 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: slow down and fig that what's happening. But so I 461 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: would say slow down, just slow down and talk to yourself. 462 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: And the other part is you have to come into 463 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: a willingness to be super uncomfortable, because yeah, these feelings 464 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: are helpful. Feelings are very helpful, that doesn't mean they're 465 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: very comfortable. And so having that allow yourself to slow down, 466 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: which also can be uncomfortable for me. Allow you to 467 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: have to slow down and then allow yourself to the 468 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: space to be uncomfortable, even if it's for five seconds. 469 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: I have, um, this funny story with my life and feelings, 470 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: but um, I don't know where. Eric and I were 471 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: at this thing and I was like, man, I was 472 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: having so many feelings and had been for a few 473 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: days and really couldn't like sort them out and all 474 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: this stuff. And we were at this like public place, 475 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: and I like to I have I'm a therapist, but 476 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: still like I have a lot of feelings about my feelings. 477 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: And so I was like, hey, can you come outside 478 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: with me? And he came outside and I was like crying, 479 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know what's happening, Like 480 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: I can't make sense of any of this stuff. Basically, 481 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: I was like having so many feelings, but I couldn't 482 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: slow down enough to do that, and so he kind 483 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: of he was just with me and he was like, 484 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,959 Speaker 1: you're okay, You're safe, like just breathe, and then like 485 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: after a little bit um he just started laughing, like 486 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: I was laughing too, and he was laughing, and I 487 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: was like, what are you laughing about? Like you know, 488 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: I'm in crisis here, and he was like all I 489 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: can think about is that scene from The Grinch, And 490 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: I was like, where is he going with this? And 491 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: the Grench goes I'm having and he's like, you're having 492 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: feelings and it's okay. So sometimes that's like really like 493 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: when we start to thaw out and we start to 494 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: recognize that we're actually having feelings, we can be all 495 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: over the where does that judgment come from? Like where 496 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: does the judgment come from? I know for me it 497 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: was it was hard for me to acknowledge and be 498 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: okay with the fact that I am scared all the 499 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: time and didn't make me weak and I'm lonely a lot. 500 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: Where does the we have to ask ourselves, where is 501 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: the judgment that these feelings are bad come from? Who's 502 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: telling us that? Yeah, and what modly is somebody? So 503 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: let's go find like allow yourself the space to go 504 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: ask those questions. Who who told me or what experience 505 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: told me that this is wrong or bad? I got 506 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: to go see if that isn't accurate. Yeah, that's a great, 507 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: great question, and even recognizing what messages you received around 508 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: feelings in your families, because a lot of times like 509 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: cultural things and like you know, parents saying like just 510 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: stop crying or put on a happy face or you know, 511 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: get over it. That parents probably like we're doing the 512 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: best they can what they had. But really this teaching 513 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: of like when a parent isn't okay with their their 514 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: own feelings, they're definitely not okay with their kids feelings 515 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: and so everybody will do whatever they can to get 516 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: rid of them. Right, Well, if my kid is having 517 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: a feeling, is that samething about me? You know what 518 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: I mean? In my parenting style and whatever, So all 519 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: not to say, um let's jump in, yeah, let's do it. 520 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: So again, we're going to go through all these eight 521 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: that we created, and it looks like we are going 522 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: to start with loneliness perfect such a good feeling. So 523 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: when I say, lonely isn't does anything like come to 524 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: mind you like any thought, any whether it's like I 525 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: don't want that, or like, what do you think when 526 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: you think about the feeling of loneliness really more of 527 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: a feeling in my body of like a deep pit. 528 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, I don't know that I want to 529 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: talk about loneliness, which is crazy because I think we've 530 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: said this before. I think we said that's the first 531 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: time you were on here. But somebody one time sat 532 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: me down and we were talking about what's your specialty 533 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: and what do you work with him? I was like, 534 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: you know what, I think that I specialize in loneliness. 535 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, not because I not because I 536 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: am myself always feeling it. And I'm like really like 537 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: in tune with it in that way, because when it 538 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: comes down to it, every single person that comes in 539 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 1: this room, they think that they're coming here for this, 540 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: or they're coming here for that or whatever. When we 541 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: narrow it down, I'm like, oh, you're lonely, Like you're 542 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: feeling lonely, you just are not aware, and so we're 543 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: gonna go through the um. What happens when you're aware 544 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: of your feelings and what happens when you're unaware of 545 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: each of these feelings and for loneliness, what happens when 546 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: you're unaware is you create apathy and distance. And that 547 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: can be in relationships with yourself, it can be relationship 548 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: with God, it can be in relationships with others. Uh. 549 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: And Megan made a really good point when we were 550 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: talking about this earlier, of it's kind of like that 551 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: whole idea of I don't know if you want to 552 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: talk about this, that love versus hate. So people think 553 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: those are the opposite. But what were you saying earlier? Yeah, 554 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: sometimes people all here, even in my office, like oh no, 555 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't hate that person, And I'm like, oh hate, 556 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: It really isn't that bad, you know hate, Like when 557 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: you hate somebody, you're still having energy towards them. So 558 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: love and hate really are kind of very close to 559 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: each other versus the idea of apathy is like, I 560 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: just don't even care. It takes the energy out. Yeah. 561 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: So if you think of like being unaware to your loneliness, Okay, 562 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: if we're actually feeling lonely, what we're needing probably is connection, right, 563 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: But if we shove that away and we put it 564 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: in a pocket where it doesn't belong. What that does 565 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: It tells us that we don't care, so we don't 566 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: seek out relationships with anybody. So one thing that it 567 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: can cause, it can cause you to be unknown, like 568 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: completely unknown from yourself. You won't know yourself, people won't 569 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: know you. And I mean, if you're digging a deeper 570 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: hole right now, if you're aware of loneliness, this is 571 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: a thing like, yeah, it is not exciting thing to 572 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 1: wake up and be like, I'm lonely right now. But 573 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: if you're aware to it and if you can walk 574 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: into it, um, what you will end up getting in 575 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: the long run is connection or a fancier word for that, 576 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: intimacy and relationships. When you're aware that you're lonely, you 577 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: can go and seek out the need of filling that. 578 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: So when you're lonely, light comes on. Yeah, you it 579 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: actually moves you to going and and being less lonely. 580 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: And I'm curious, like, even because you talk, you've mentioned 581 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: so many times about feeling lonely a lot, how do 582 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: you know when you're lonely and what do you do 583 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: with it? Well, I think it's just you know, and 584 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: I just know that it's always there now, but I think, 585 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: I think realizing for me, and it is a deep pit. 586 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: It's like it's I don't know how to describe it 587 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: because it's a for me, loneliness is so bodily like 588 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: visceral feeling. It's almost like I get like a shock. 589 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I'm probably not describing 590 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: this well, but like I get this like when I 591 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: come a ache to my loneliness, I get this shock 592 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: of like I'm missing something because I would say one 593 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: of the things that I value most in life are 594 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: my relationships. We know that, so um, it feels like 595 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: an illness. And what's really interesting is the emotional pain 596 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: that we feel from loneliness hits in the exact same 597 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: neurow pathways in the brain as physical pain, like the 598 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: exact saying that's like when why when you're like feeling 599 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: really lonely, like you actually can feel like you're ill, 600 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: you know, so you don't it causes like an intense 601 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: feeling of discomfort. So like that shock that I'm talking about, 602 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: I'm not making that up in my head. That really 603 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: is happening. And so humans generally don't like feeling physical discomfort, 604 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: and so that's why I will numb out the loneliness. 605 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: And we can do that a million ways. And I 606 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: don't know that we're gonna probably get into that of 607 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: numbing emotions. But I don't know if I answered your question, 608 00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: how do I know? I think so? And even I 609 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: you were talking, I was thinking, like, even for me, 610 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: doing this podcast with you came out of loneliness. When 611 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm not aware of my loneliness, it looks like boredom. 612 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: So I get really bored. I feel really like apathetic 613 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: of like what even is the point of life? Why 614 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: am I doing this? Like I'm bored? And when I'm 615 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: not listening to that, it can send me into this 616 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: existential crisis place of like all the things that has mentioned. However, 617 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: when I am listening to it, so eventually I came 618 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: out of this place and I was like, oh, I 619 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: am lonely, like for something new and to create something 620 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: new with someone, and it led me to doing like 621 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: this and this and this and this and then eventually 622 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: linking up with you to do this, which is a 623 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: really cool example. Yea, and I will I want to 624 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: say this too, because loneliness isn't that to fulfill that 625 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: native connection sometimes can be really hard, and I think 626 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: that I bypassed that a lot, and that's probably one 627 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: of my blind spots because I have a community. I 628 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: have a really big community here. But for people maybe 629 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: who have like moved or in new places or our 630 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: end have ended relationships or whatever, it can be really 631 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: uh tough to listen to your loneliness because that means 632 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: you have to do really For me, it's not that hard. 633 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: I feel lonely, I'm going to call a friend or 634 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something like that. But for people in 635 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: that way, it's like it is really actually very uncomfortable 636 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: to get out of your loneliness and that to listen 637 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: to it, because that means you're gonna have to go 638 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: in places where you don't know anybody, You're gonna have 639 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: to meet new people, You're gonna have to be really vulnerable. 640 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's probably why a lot of people 641 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: don't want to actually listen to it, because they know 642 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: that it's going to force them to either just feel 643 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: the physical pain or do something that terrifies them. Right, 644 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: like all of our feelings, just like the lights on 645 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: the dashboard there, actually when you're listening to them, they 646 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: actually move you to do something. And one of the 647 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: things like, even when when you're talking about, yeah, you 648 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: have a lot of friends and you really value relationship, 649 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,919 Speaker 1: and so even in that case, it can be very 650 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: possible that you're not lonely for relational connection in the 651 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: friendship sense. But you can be lonely for time with yourself, 652 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: or you can be lonely for more creativeness at work, 653 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: or you can be lonely for your higher power, Like 654 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: we can be lonely in some areas of our lives 655 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: and not lonely in all areas. And then there's a 656 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: quote I love about loneliness that says, like, loneliness isn't 657 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: that necessarily the absence of another's physical presence, but it's 658 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: the absence of sharing anything meaningful about yourself. Where did 659 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: you get that? From a book you didn't read? Um, yeah, 660 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: it is from a book. Is from Um. I'm doing 661 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: that somatic group therapy where I'm a participant, and it 662 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: was on written on the white board actually, and I 663 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: was like, hell, yeah, I relate to that. Amazing. A 664 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: lot of us can do a lot of talking and 665 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: say nothing and share nothing about ourselves. I think that 666 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: wraps up loneliness. I know it's going to be so 667 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: hard to talk about feelings because I feel like, do 668 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: this forever. We could just get an episode on each feeling. 669 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: So let's go to the next one, Megan, you want 670 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: to take this away? Yes, somehow from the draft, I 671 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: drafted hurt, which we were laughing because when early on, 672 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: when I used to talk about feelings, I would always 673 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: forget one feeling and I'd be like, what the hell 674 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: is the feeling I'm forgetting? Why I always forget one 675 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: of the feelings And I always forgot hurt um, And 676 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: I I think because it's the one I most avoid 677 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: within myself. So I'm just like, I can't remember it 678 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: because I'm so so avoidant of it. Um. And then 679 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: I laughed too, because sometimes I'll just write hurt on 680 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: a piece of paper, like when I'm in my office 681 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: with somebody and I'll just keep holding it up as 682 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: they're talking. Um. They're like talking, and I'm like, you're hurt. 683 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: They're talking more, I'm like, you're hurt, Like you're hurt. 684 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: Really funny because it will laugh, but it's it's you know, 685 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've worked with people and I do this myself. 686 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: It's a lot of like, it's fine, I don't care, 687 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: it's fine, I don't care. And I'm like, if you're 688 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: saying you don't care, and then clearly you care. And 689 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: if you're saying it's fine, clearly it's not fine. So 690 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm just like fine. I like, I want you to 691 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: imagine this flashing light. It's just like hurt, hurt, hurt. Um. 692 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: So I say that because even to this day, hurt 693 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: is the feeling I probably work the hardest to avoid. 694 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: And when we're unaware of our hurt, it causes like 695 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,240 Speaker 1: just pain upon pain, Like even if you think about 696 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: physical injuries, and if you don't listen to your body's hurt, 697 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: you will just keep going and going and going until 698 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: you get to a place where you've got a way 699 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: bigger problem than you had in the beginning if you 700 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: would have stopped and been at tuned to that hurt. 701 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: And just like a physical injury, if you are if 702 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: you hurt yourself, you go to the doctor, you go 703 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: to the train room, like, you go somewhere and you 704 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: get healing for your injury. Right, And that's making me 705 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: think of the whole idea of thank God we can 706 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: feel physical pain, because if we can't, then I'm going 707 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: to keep my hand on the hot stove for twenty minutes. 708 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: Yeah right, thank god I can. But if I if 709 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: I don't allow myself to feel it, I'm going to 710 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: fry my hand off exactly. Which is the other like 711 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: thing that happens when we're unaware of our hurt or 712 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: when we shove it down and shove it away, we 713 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: get this lovely thing called resentment, which and splits that 714 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: and the dwells step rooms. A lot of people describe 715 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: resentment as drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Um, 716 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: so you're just like constantly inside spewing, just passive aggressive. 717 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: It's such a good I'm sure I've heard that before, 718 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: but that is such a good visual. Mm hmm. Yeah, 719 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,439 Speaker 1: You're just holding all this stuff inside and it's coming 720 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: out as passive aggressiveness and like, you know, snide comments 721 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: towards this person maybe who hurt you, and all the 722 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,760 Speaker 1: while they could actually have no idea that they actually 723 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: hurt you, which leads into another topic for another day 724 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: of like kind of this belief I think really in 725 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: the world that we should we don't have to tell 726 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: or we shouldn't have to tell people what we need 727 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: or what we feel. They should just know. And hurts 728 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: probably the one, the biggest one that comes up with 729 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: because it's really vulnerable to go to somebody and say like, hey, 730 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 1: this happened, and like I'm really hurt and then try 731 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: to repair that. And so when when we're not aware 732 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: of our hurt, like we are in resentment city, like 733 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: you can feel it, Like I'm thinking about resentment, and 734 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: like when I'm having that, it's like you can feel 735 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: it all in your body. It's like a fire burning. 736 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: You know, you're literally just continue to drink the poison 737 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: and like the other person is just going about their 738 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: life having no idea that anything is wrong, no idea. 739 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: One of the like my favorite things actually is when 740 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: a client comes back and like the next week or whatever, 741 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: whenever something happens and is able to tell me about 742 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: something I did that hurt them, whether it's like hey, 743 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: you didn't respond to my email fast enough and that 744 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: really hurt me, or hey you said this last week 745 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 1: and that really hurt me. And sometimes I'm like yeah, 746 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: Like sometimes I'm like yeah, I like there is sometimes 747 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: I say things that might be hurtful to people and 748 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: that's just the nature of it. And other times, especially 749 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: given from like just the environment I grew up in, 750 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: I can say things that are really hurtful in like 751 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: a funny way in my humanity, and I'm like, I'm 752 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: so glad when people tell me so I can actually 753 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: make it right and make amends. And you know what, 754 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: this is making me come back to this whole. This 755 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: will help give it visual to this primary versus secondary 756 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: feelings and like your start gate, because what I'm thinking 757 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: is when somebody hurts me, I probably go to anger. Yeah, 758 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: I go straight to anger, and that's where the resentment 759 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: comes in. And I'm like, screw you, you suck, You're horrible, 760 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: and then I try to hurt them, but really I'm 761 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: just acting outside of myself and then I feel bad 762 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: and it's a whole thing. But if I can say, Okay, 763 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: I feel a lot of energy right now, it maybe 764 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: might be anger, but is there anything else there? And 765 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: slow down, I can realize, oh, I'm angry at her 766 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: because she hurt my feelings and I care about myself, 767 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: so I don't like that she hurt my feelings. But 768 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: me just being resentful is not going to do anything. 769 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: If I come to you and say, hey, when you 770 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: said this, that really didn't sit well with me, and 771 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: this is a story made up about it about you 772 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: and me. Can we talk about that? You could probably 773 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: have a good conversation and resolve some of that and 774 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: find healing and even a deeper relationship with that person. Yes, 775 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,399 Speaker 1: Like when her is in its rightful place, when we're 776 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: listening to it, we what happens is we seek healing, 777 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: whether that's physical healing for our injuries or emotional healing 778 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,879 Speaker 1: for like our emotional injuries. And you're exactly right, when 779 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,919 Speaker 1: we are willing to go get healing for the hurt 780 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: oftentimes what happens is it creates an even deeper relationship. 781 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,240 Speaker 1: And with that I have to do a huge, huge 782 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: asterisk disclaimer here, Like part of maybe what is a 783 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: belief that a lot of people carry is that we 784 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: have to go to the person who hurt us to 785 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: receive healing. Sometimes, if that person who hurt you is 786 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: like a remotely somewhat really healthy person, absolutely do that, 787 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: like absolutely go to that person. Like if I hurt you, Catherine, 788 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: I would absolutely want you to come and tell me 789 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: so we could get healing. But sometimes we're in relationship 790 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: with people who are so unhealthy, or we have family 791 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: members or whatever that looks like that cause are so 792 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: unhealthy that if they hurt you and you go to 793 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: them and say this is what hurt, you're just going 794 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,319 Speaker 1: to get more hurt. Like if they're unwilling to sit 795 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: in their feelings, then it's probably not a good idea. 796 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: Exactly if you're with someone who if you're trying to 797 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: go get your hurt hurtness, I don't know, hurtness is 798 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,439 Speaker 1: the word, and you're trying to go get healing from 799 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: somebody else who cannot acknowledge their own hurt or their 800 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: own feelings, all you're going to get is further harm 801 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: and further hurt. And so sometimes we have to have 802 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: people who can help us sift through like, Okay, can 803 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: I go to this person to get healing or really 804 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: do I need to go to somebody else like to 805 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: talk about this, whether it's my therapist or whether it's 806 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 1: like a healthy friend or somebody else who can really 807 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,240 Speaker 1: help get you healing versus going back to a source 808 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: where you will never get healing because that person is 809 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: just not able to get put you in to kind 810 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: of like a relationship triangle of the drama triangle. Do 811 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,399 Speaker 1: you know what that is? Cartman triangle? We'll get into 812 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: that one day. UM. Question for you, what would you say, 813 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: UM to those people who it's like, well, what's the 814 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: point of UM acknowledging my hurt? If I can't go 815 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: talk to that person, how do I make it? How 816 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: do I find healing? Then? Do you haven't you have 817 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: an idea? Yeah? A lot of times we can find healing. 818 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: There's a difference between getting healing for yourself and getting 819 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: relational repair. UM. And so we can only get relational 820 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: repair with people who are able to do that and 821 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: be healthy. UM. And that's what I'm talking about. When 822 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: you're going to a person who hurt you and they're 823 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: able to admit their humanity and fix things. If the 824 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: person isn't like that, we can get healing, but we 825 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 1: might have healing without relational repair. And what that looks 826 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: like is going to somebody who can actually provide care 827 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: and who can listen to your hurt and tend to 828 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: it just like somebody would tend to a physical injury. 829 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: Like they can listen to how your hurt, they can 830 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: empathize they can have compassion, care, ask you questions about it, 831 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: give you a hug if that's what you want, and 832 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: like be with you in that, in the hardness of that. Yeah, Like, 833 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,240 Speaker 1: if you are in a boxing match when somebody breaks 834 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: your nose, you're not going to go to the person 835 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: that breaks your nose to fix it. You're gonna exactly, 836 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: They're not going to know how. You're gonna go to 837 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: a doctor and you can still find healing, but you're 838 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: not going to have a good relationship with the guy 839 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: that broke her nose. Yeah, Like you may not ever 840 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: want to. I mean, if you're if you're boxing a sport, 841 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 1: then that's one thing. But if somebody is just knocks 842 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: knocks you out in theddle the sheet, probably what you're 843 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: gonna do is avoid that person forever and maybe get 844 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: a restraining order and lots of other things. But to 845 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: go to that person and say, hey, it really hurts 846 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: me when you hit me and broke my nose, Like, 847 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: they're probably just going to hit you somewhere else. Right, 848 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for the metaphor analogies. Similar You're welcome. We got 849 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: to keep So let's jump into Catherine's favorite feeling. Cat. 850 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: Will you tell us about fear? Is this my favorite 851 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: or just most just is a common feeling, common theme 852 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 1: in my life, most familiars. So we're going into fear. 853 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: And so here's the deal with fear. I hate it 854 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: and I love it um for multiple reasons. So just 855 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: starting off, if you're unaware that you're afraid a lot 856 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: of times, what that will look like is pure anxiety. 857 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: And I always tell everybody anxiety is truly a fancy 858 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,240 Speaker 1: word for fear. So when we don't want to acknowledge 859 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: that we're afraid, we're like, oh, I'm so anxious, No, 860 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: you're terrified. Um. And so in that we can also well, actually, 861 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: what kind of want you to talk about this? So 862 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,919 Speaker 1: why I want you to talk about the um fear 863 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: being rage? Oh? Yeah, because Megan said earlier when we 864 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: were talking, she was like, people are gonna be shocked 865 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,479 Speaker 1: that rage doesn't come from anger, it comes from fear. 866 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah? 867 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: I see the lights come on with people's times when 868 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, they're talking about having road rage and I 869 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: my answer back to them is like, oh, what are 870 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: you afraid of? And they're like, I'm not afraid. I'm 871 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,359 Speaker 1: really angry, and I'm like, oh no, no, no, you're 872 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: definitely afraid. So it's like, I'll tell you what you're feeling. 873 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: I definitely am open to people being able to feel 874 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: whatever they want to feel, but sometimes I'm translating right, 875 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: And so there definitely is some anger in with rage. 876 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: But rage is primarily fear based, a fear based emotion. 877 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: And so even if we if we look, if people 878 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: begin asking themselves when you are raging, so the difference 879 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: between rage and anger is rage is uncontained, so people 880 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: are often harmed when somebody's raging emotionally, physically, um, spiritually, mentally, 881 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: whatever rage is, sometimes people will talk about it as 882 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: like seeing red or blacking out, like you are not 883 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: in your body, like it's uncontained, out of control. And 884 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,760 Speaker 1: when we talk about anger, like anger is so different 885 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,320 Speaker 1: than that um and so rage is really unsafe and 886 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: part of what is underneath the rage really is fear. Well, yes, 887 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: and so an example to give with that is if 888 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,320 Speaker 1: you do have road rage, like if somebody almost like 889 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: cuts you, somebody cuts you off, you almost getting a wreck, 890 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: you have this like rageful moment, but when you really 891 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,879 Speaker 1: step back, why are you, you're not angry at that person. Really, 892 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,800 Speaker 1: you almost I thought you were going to die. You 893 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: thought you're gonna get hurt. So you were scared. And 894 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: so that some of the if you're unaware of your fear, 895 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,760 Speaker 1: some of the other stuff that you can be overwhelmed 896 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: and you can be confused, like you're just confused of 897 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: all a million different things. Now, if you can be 898 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: aware of your fear. And this is why I love 899 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: fear so much, because when I'm afraid, what is leading 900 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: me to is things that I care about. So if 901 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: I didn't care if I was lived, going to live 902 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: or die, I wouldn't feel anything if somebody almost cut 903 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: me off, right, And so when I have the most fear, 904 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 1: I think that is where I have the most energy 905 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: around things I care about. It leads you to passion, 906 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: like it truly will lead you to passion um taking risks, 907 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,640 Speaker 1: Like the reason we're fearful when we take risks is 908 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,879 Speaker 1: because we care if we fail or succeed. Now, if 909 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: I didn't care if I've failed or succeeded, I wouldn't 910 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 1: have energy around that. And that goes to career stuff, relationships, anything. Um. Now, 911 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 1: the other part that fear is really helpful, is I 912 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: do think it keeps us very safe, like physically, emotionally, 913 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: all of it. Like, I do think that fear can 914 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,640 Speaker 1: keep us safe because um, it's almost well, did you 915 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 1: use an example of crossing the street. Yeah, I love 916 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 1: to use that example because I spent so much of 917 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,239 Speaker 1: my life. We'll do a whole episode on fear. But 918 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 1: I have read every book, every podcast, every everything on fearlessness, 919 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: worked with some of the best like golf mental people 920 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 1: in the world to help me like become fearless. And 921 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: I wish somebody would have just told me, Hey, we 922 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 1: actually don't want to get rid of your fear, because 923 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: like if you didn't have any fear and you went 924 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,200 Speaker 1: across the street, you wouldn't even look both ways and 925 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: you would get hit by a car and probably die. 926 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: And so really it's when I realize, like, oh, I 927 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,320 Speaker 1: don't want to get rid of my fear. I just 928 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: wanted to be in its rightful place that I actually 929 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: like started befriending it and welcoming it and being thankful 930 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,240 Speaker 1: for it versus like trying to get it to go away. Yeah, totally. 931 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 1: Now if we could, yeah, we could look at fear 932 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,520 Speaker 1: that way, I think everybody would acknowledge that, like, yeah, 933 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,879 Speaker 1: we're freaking afraid and proud of it, right. We would 934 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 1: be happy to acknowledge that, because it would essentially be 935 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,560 Speaker 1: waving a flag that like I have passion in my life, 936 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,400 Speaker 1: um or I care that I'm alive, Like that's what 937 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,360 Speaker 1: it would be saying, yeah, or this is going to 938 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: help me, Like I think this is going to help 939 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: me be wise because I get to think about what 940 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: I need in order to keep myself safe. Um. I 941 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: remember you've told me so much about working in adventure 942 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,239 Speaker 1: therapy in some ways that you helped people work on 943 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: fear there. So can you talk about what that looked like. Yeah, 944 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: So for those of you who don't know what adventure 945 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: therapy is, that's really playing in the woods on REMS courses. 946 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 1: Um So, I was an adventure therapist for uh not 947 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,359 Speaker 1: even a year, but I did it at this treatment center. 948 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: And what we would do is we would essentially create 949 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 1: a lot of experiential experiences that would force people to 950 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: be afraid. So, now this wasn't a place that we 951 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 1: worked with highly traumatized people, and so we didn't just 952 00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,759 Speaker 1: like throw them in here day one, but after jump 953 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: off this. Yeah, no we didn't. We were safe and 954 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: careful of it. But I'll not say we would create 955 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,239 Speaker 1: these experiences where we would have them walk into the 956 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,359 Speaker 1: face of fear, because what would happen when you're traumatized 957 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,399 Speaker 1: And this can be big tea little tea, it really can. Um. 958 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: But a lot of times with like these big te 959 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,359 Speaker 1: traumas that these people were dealing with is when they 960 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: were in their experience, they thought they were going to 961 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: die and at the same time, they felt fear, and 962 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: so they attached the they touched bad. They literally attached 963 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: this is bad, this bad event is happening. I'm feeling fear. 964 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: I'm going to die. So all of those three things 965 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: were wrapped. They were wrapped together, and they also were 966 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: wrapped together with bad. So we would take them to 967 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,439 Speaker 1: do these things um to kind of unwind those things 968 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: from each other. And so one of the experiences we 969 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: did was, um, we took them to this damn and 970 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: it was I don't know how hi the jump was, 971 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,120 Speaker 1: but we essentially harness them up and we had them 972 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: climb up this very scary, terrified ladder and like jump 973 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: off into the abyss and you go like we were, 974 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 1: they were like harnessed in and all that. I mean 975 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: it was I did all of the elements all the time. 976 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,879 Speaker 1: That was the one that straight that scared me the most. 977 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: It was And so did you do it? Did you jump? 978 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: For sure? I did, but I was like shaking. And 979 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: so what we would do is we we had one 980 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: of the therapists up there with you, and you would 981 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,960 Speaker 1: kind of talk to them and kind of invite some 982 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: like caring nous and some like love and some connection 983 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: to this experience of them being terrified. Um, so they 984 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: could take that badness around it like I'm terrified, but 985 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm also with this really safe person who's speaking some 986 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: like really kind words into my existence right now. The 987 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: second part is because they attached death and fear together, 988 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,799 Speaker 1: we were unmarrying those from their head, and so they 989 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: would jump because they felt fear fear means I'm gonna die. 990 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 1: They would jump, and then guess what, they didn't die. 991 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: They did not die. And so we started little by 992 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,719 Speaker 1: little pulling that apart. And maybe you would have to 993 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: do something like that fifty times before it really stuck. 994 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: But in order to unmarry those things, you have to 995 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,840 Speaker 1: walk your body through it UM, and so that was 996 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: really cool because we could teach them that like, hey, one, 997 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 1: if you are afraid that you're going to die, it's 998 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,600 Speaker 1: because you value your life. And to fear doesn't always 999 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,759 Speaker 1: mean you're going to die. Fear could just mean you 1000 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,400 Speaker 1: care about something UM. So that was really cool to 1001 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: be able to do. Yeah, and I love how in 1002 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,120 Speaker 1: that example too, like you all were helping people get 1003 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: over their fear, but also using fear to keep them 1004 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,320 Speaker 1: safe as well, because they weren't just jumping off like 1005 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: they had a harness, they had a safe person up 1006 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,279 Speaker 1: there with them. They probably had a rope, they had 1007 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,560 Speaker 1: a safe person at the other end. So I think 1008 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of value in also knowing like you're 1009 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: facing your fear with the support appropriate support from around that, 1010 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,560 Speaker 1: Like just like crossing the street, like it's great to 1011 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 1: look both ways, but also even better if you go 1012 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,920 Speaker 1: to the crosswalk, push the button, wait for the red light, 1013 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 1: et cetera. UM. The other thing that I think about 1014 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,759 Speaker 1: UM when I think of fear is I went to 1015 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,000 Speaker 1: UM this event a couple of years ago, and the 1016 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 1: keynote speaker was this guy who got on the stage 1017 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: and man, you could taste. I want to use anxiety. 1018 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: You could taste the word, and you could taste his anxiety. 1019 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,440 Speaker 1: He was pacing, he was talking really fast, moving his hands. Now, 1020 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,200 Speaker 1: wonderful speaker, incredible speaker, but I knew as soon as 1021 00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: he started speaking, I was like, that guy's terrified and 1022 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: at the kind of throughout his talk. At the end 1023 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,800 Speaker 1: he told a story about he was like, I just 1024 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,400 Speaker 1: want you guys to know that when I started speaking, 1025 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,640 Speaker 1: I would throw up before every event, like make myself ill, 1026 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: throw up before every event. And so finally his assistant 1027 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,399 Speaker 1: or somebody who's working with was like, dude, like, if 1028 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,440 Speaker 1: this is freaking you out so much, why do you 1029 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,080 Speaker 1: keep doing it? And he said, because the only thing 1030 00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,719 Speaker 1: that would be worse than doing this would be not 1031 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,200 Speaker 1: doing it. And for him, that was like a picture 1032 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,920 Speaker 1: of like, I'm so terrified at so much energy around 1033 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,440 Speaker 1: this because I really really, really really really want to 1034 00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,120 Speaker 1: do this, thank God. And I thought that was so cool, 1035 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: like a picture of somebody leaning into like, yeah, this 1036 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: is uncomfortable, but you know it would be more uncomfortable 1037 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,279 Speaker 1: not following my passion and being asleep to the fact 1038 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: that I'm afraid, which is I have a person long 1039 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,760 Speaker 1: experience even relating to that, because thankfully my own therapist 1040 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,239 Speaker 1: was also able to walk me through that she had 1041 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,200 Speaker 1: got thrown off a horse and I think broken her 1042 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,400 Speaker 1: leg and horse like riding horses was so therapeutic for 1043 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,160 Speaker 1: her and all this stuff that she was like, you 1044 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: know what, yeah, you know, it would be worse then, 1045 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,880 Speaker 1: like having a broken leg, it's never getting back on 1046 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,719 Speaker 1: a horse and being able to live that out. Well, 1047 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,839 Speaker 1: I don't know how long late after that I had, 1048 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: I bought a moped and then eventually got hit by 1049 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,520 Speaker 1: a car on my moped and luckily was hurt but 1050 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: also okay. And as I was sifting through, I was like, man, 1051 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,839 Speaker 1: I'm really afraid to get a get another moped. I'm 1052 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: so afraid, but like, I have to do it to 1053 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,279 Speaker 1: get over my fear. Actually, she was able to really 1054 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,279 Speaker 1: help me sort through like is this a fear I 1055 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,399 Speaker 1: want to step into? And in that I was able 1056 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,799 Speaker 1: to say, like, no, Like I have fear of getting 1057 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,080 Speaker 1: hit by another car and it actually is pretty dangerous 1058 00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: around Nashville on a moped. And so I really came 1059 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,359 Speaker 1: to this place of like, you know, if I lived 1060 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,680 Speaker 1: in a place that felt safer. Maybe I'd be willing 1061 00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,120 Speaker 1: to step into this fear, but actually I'm like, this 1062 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,320 Speaker 1: isn't a fear worth stepping into. And there are some 1063 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 1: fears worth stepping into, and there are others that aren't. 1064 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,320 Speaker 1: And so that was almost like an opposite story. But 1065 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,320 Speaker 1: I think there are other things, like, for me, doing 1066 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,600 Speaker 1: public speaking is really scary, but I choose to step 1067 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,840 Speaker 1: into it because it's worth it. Well, I think you're 1068 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,959 Speaker 1: talking about that. You're giving examples of fear the gift 1069 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,040 Speaker 1: of passion, and fear the gift of safety. So the 1070 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: moped is the gift of safety. If I can feel 1071 00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,360 Speaker 1: terrified of being on a moped, that's telling me that 1072 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,600 Speaker 1: I want to be safe and I value my life, 1073 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to step into that. And the 1074 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,040 Speaker 1: other one, if I allow myself to feel the fear 1075 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: of public speaking, that's telling me that I care about 1076 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,040 Speaker 1: public speaking. The other one is telling me I care 1077 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,000 Speaker 1: about my life and so I'm gonna do whatever I 1078 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,400 Speaker 1: can to perserve that. And this is saying I care 1079 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,120 Speaker 1: about doing the things that like God or whoever has 1080 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 1: written on my heart as desires of mine. That makes sense. Yes, 1081 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: that's a very very helpful summary. Thank I listen to 1082 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,600 Speaker 1: people who are living. Okay, so let's move on. That's 1083 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 1: fear um now, Megan, You're so lucky that you get 1084 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,800 Speaker 1: to do this one. I get to do the only 1085 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,160 Speaker 1: happy feeling on the whole only good feeling, the only one. 1086 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,520 Speaker 1: It's not a good feeling. They're not good or bad. 1087 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: We're joking. They're all good. And actually I'm going to 1088 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,840 Speaker 1: talk about glad or gladness, and actually even really gladness 1089 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,440 Speaker 1: and its best state has some other stuff along with it. 1090 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,439 Speaker 1: So first I'll talk about like what happens when we're 1091 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,880 Speaker 1: unaware or when we're trying to create our own gladness. Essentially, 1092 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: it's pretty easy, and I'm sure lots of people can 1093 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,680 Speaker 1: relate to this. When we don't experience true joy and 1094 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: true gladness, when we're not willing to feel all of 1095 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,680 Speaker 1: our feelings to get there, what we do is we 1096 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: try to manufacture it so that looks like really anything 1097 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: that we do for like sensual pleasure, like having sex 1098 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,439 Speaker 1: with people when we aren't wanting to but just wanting 1099 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,360 Speaker 1: the high, or getting drunk, or going shopping and buying 1100 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: lots of things, or going to lots of events and 1101 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,200 Speaker 1: lots of concerts, and all of those things can be 1102 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 1: really great, and they're great and they're rightful place, but 1103 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,520 Speaker 1: when we're doing it, because we're trying to manufacture this 1104 00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,360 Speaker 1: really awesome high but not wanting to acknowledge the other 1105 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 1: feelings that go along with things, we get in these 1106 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,280 Speaker 1: really sticky situations and basically all you're doing is trying 1107 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: to manufacture this great time upon great time upon great 1108 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,680 Speaker 1: time upon a great time, And that's really how things 1109 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,120 Speaker 1: get pretty out of control and how we start doing 1110 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 1: things really outside of our value system. Yeah, and I 1111 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,160 Speaker 1: this is making me think about the idea that if 1112 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,560 Speaker 1: you want to step into these feelings, you've got to 1113 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: step into all of them. Yes, so if you want 1114 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,760 Speaker 1: to step into gladness, you've got to step into all 1115 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: of them, and if you don't want to step into them, 1116 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,800 Speaker 1: you don't get to step into any of them. So 1117 00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,880 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do this stuff, then guess 1118 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,640 Speaker 1: what you're numb to? Glad nous And so being unaware 1119 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,800 Speaker 1: of being glad is really I mean, I don't know 1120 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,840 Speaker 1: the right word to use here, but hurtful or detrimental, 1121 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 1: because then you can't access that you don't need a manufacturer, right, 1122 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Like we can't selectively I really try to embrace this 1123 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:19,920 Speaker 1: life is not all or nothing. That's part of my 1124 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: recovery is finding like moderation in the middle ground, and 1125 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,280 Speaker 1: feelings are really the all or nothing kind of thing. 1126 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,440 Speaker 1: We can't selectively numb some and then accept the others. 1127 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Like it's really like you're awake and feeling or you're 1128 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,480 Speaker 1: asleep and not. And so that's what happens, like when 1129 01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,240 Speaker 1: we're trying to find this place of gladness but we 1130 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,440 Speaker 1: don't want to feel any anything else. The only thing 1131 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,560 Speaker 1: you can do is manufacturer. Thanks for saying that, Katherine, 1132 01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,479 Speaker 1: And so along with that, like when we step into 1133 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,720 Speaker 1: what what does it look like to be truly like 1134 01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: alive and really feel the gladness, it is a willingness 1135 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,240 Speaker 1: to acknowledge like the sad nous and the other feelings 1136 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 1: that come along with it. And so the best way 1137 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,080 Speaker 1: I can describe that is like when we have that feeling, 1138 01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 1: there's like this deep, deep satisfaction and like this deep 1139 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,680 Speaker 1: gladness mixed with this sadness. Really that like life is 1140 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,320 Speaker 1: temporary um and everything is fleeting and everything is passing, 1141 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,640 Speaker 1: and so I have like so many stories, but the 1142 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,640 Speaker 1: one I can think about the most is like, um, 1143 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: I got engaged. I don't know six months ago, whatever 1144 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,560 Speaker 1: it is now. I think it was only four actually, 1145 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: like it was last week. It was last week in 1146 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,400 Speaker 1: September what however many months ago? That was um. But 1147 01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: it was like this really beautiful, like intimate day and 1148 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,280 Speaker 1: like basically people always want to ask about like the proposal, 1149 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, yeah, the proposal was fine, 1150 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,920 Speaker 1: but like we both were like so nervous and afraid 1151 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,720 Speaker 1: like whatever. But Eric planned this after party and like 1152 01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 1: my friends were there, like people that I like deeply 1153 01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,240 Speaker 1: cared about, like my family was there, and every was 1154 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,520 Speaker 1: just planned so well. Like he had like my favorite 1155 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,120 Speaker 1: flowers and he had food, and then like he stood 1156 01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,439 Speaker 1: up and read this letter that he had like read 1157 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,720 Speaker 1: to my parents when he asked if he could marry me, 1158 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,480 Speaker 1: and this it was just like so beautiful and so 1159 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,040 Speaker 1: much like heart and so honoring of like both of 1160 01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: our stories and where we come from and who we 1161 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 1: are now. And like people were crying, and I was 1162 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,919 Speaker 1: like I have never felt so loved, Like I really 1163 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,200 Speaker 1: thought that. I was like I have never felt like 1164 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,800 Speaker 1: this much joy mixed with like in the moment, I 1165 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:35,440 Speaker 1: was like, no, no, no, make this go away, and 1166 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,360 Speaker 1: make this go away, because I was I couldn't get 1167 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,040 Speaker 1: rid of the sadness that I carried of, like I've 1168 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,720 Speaker 1: waited so long for this and I've really been through 1169 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 1: like a lot of hard things, and like this is 1170 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,200 Speaker 1: so beautiful, like what I have not just the engagement, 1171 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,800 Speaker 1: but like this love and these people and like, man, 1172 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,680 Speaker 1: it's taken a lot to get to this place. And 1173 01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:00,280 Speaker 1: actually when we left, like we were leaving ing and 1174 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 1: like we're saying good night and like going to our 1175 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,680 Speaker 1: separate houses and stuff, and he was like are you okay? 1176 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,920 Speaker 1: And I started like if I could access tears easier, 1177 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:11,760 Speaker 1: I would have cried. So when sometimes I say I 1178 01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,760 Speaker 1: started crying, and I'm like, no, I actually didn't, but 1179 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,120 Speaker 1: I was crying on the inside, like this would be 1180 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,000 Speaker 1: an appropriate time to cry. I was just like this, 1181 01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:26,280 Speaker 1: like I have never felt so much joy and gladness 1182 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,560 Speaker 1: and deep satisfaction. And I was like I am so sad, 1183 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:35,400 Speaker 1: like this will never happen again, hopefully, and like and 1184 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 1: just and I told him, and just like an awareness 1185 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,480 Speaker 1: of how much pain both of us had come through 1186 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,600 Speaker 1: to really meet each other, and so I was like, 1187 01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,480 Speaker 1: I can't get rid of I can't get rid of 1188 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 1: that part. And it was okay, you know, but that's 1189 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,920 Speaker 1: what it looks like when we're living fully, like I 1190 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,440 Speaker 1: have all this love and all this joy and all 1191 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,520 Speaker 1: this sadness too, that this will never happen again. You 1192 01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,160 Speaker 1: know what it is. This is just coming to me now. 1193 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: But what is your birthday? Please don't tell me. You 1194 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:10,280 Speaker 1: want to know what my horoscope? I don't know what? 1195 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,520 Speaker 1: Does that make you a cancer? Which I like? So 1196 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,800 Speaker 1: I don't know about that horoscope stuff. I threw out 1197 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,000 Speaker 1: the window and you and horoscope out. Okay. Then I 1198 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,600 Speaker 1: don't know when this was, but so this is a example. 1199 01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 1: I would just want to give an example of how 1200 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,000 Speaker 1: you can be in this like dialectic of being really 1201 01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: glad and said at the same time, because Eric had 1202 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,400 Speaker 1: written you a letter. I don't but this must not 1203 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 1: have been for your birthday. He wrote maybe you maybe 1204 01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,680 Speaker 1: you'll know, but he wrote you a letter, and I remember, um, 1205 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,640 Speaker 1: can I say this? Kay? So you can. We were 1206 01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,360 Speaker 1: switching out offices and I was dating somebody at the time. 1207 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,960 Speaker 1: You know what I'm about to say, no, and you 1208 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,600 Speaker 1: read me this letter. This actually might make me cry 1209 01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,560 Speaker 1: and I won't. Um and oh my god, it was 1210 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,439 Speaker 1: like the Eric, if you're out there, you're a top 1211 01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:07,920 Speaker 1: notch guy. It was literally that. It was just deep 1212 01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:13,360 Speaker 1: emotional vulnerability and care like, oh my god. And I 1213 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:20,640 Speaker 1: sat through watching Megan engage in this relationship which I 1214 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,840 Speaker 1: saw the ups and downs, not in like the relationship 1215 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,840 Speaker 1: was bad and good, but how hard it was for 1216 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,160 Speaker 1: you to stay in it because of your own avoidance 1217 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,400 Speaker 1: and all that, not because of anything with him. And UM, 1218 01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,560 Speaker 1: So I got to see Megan walk through the space. 1219 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,680 Speaker 1: And when I read that letter, I was like, oh 1220 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,680 Speaker 1: my god, Megan, I'm so. I was so glad, like glad, 1221 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: deep deep satisfaction that my good friend was had this 1222 01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,640 Speaker 1: thing in her life and she allowed herself to have that. 1223 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,920 Speaker 1: At the same time, after you read that, you remember 1224 01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,439 Speaker 1: what I said, I said, do you want to say it? Say? 1225 01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,400 Speaker 1: I got I said something, and you go what And 1226 01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,800 Speaker 1: I said, my boyfriend would never write anything like that. 1227 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,959 Speaker 1: He would never say those things about me. He would 1228 01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,320 Speaker 1: never have the ability to access those feelings. And I 1229 01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,880 Speaker 1: had this like I wouldn't call out a crisis. I 1230 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,440 Speaker 1: would think it was an awakening to like, I am 1231 01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:19,080 Speaker 1: so happy for her, and now I'm really sad because 1232 01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm noticing that I am at a loss of something. 1233 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,040 Speaker 1: And it was maybe a week or two or three 1234 01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,640 Speaker 1: I broke up with that guy. Well he kind of 1235 01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 1: broke up with me, but it was because I told 1236 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: it was because I sat down. I was like, listen, 1237 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,120 Speaker 1: like I need to know if this is like what's 1238 01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,600 Speaker 1: going on here, because I need more from you and 1239 01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,240 Speaker 1: if you can't give me more, then this is never 1240 01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,320 Speaker 1: gonna work. And so he took a couple of days 1241 01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,880 Speaker 1: and he came back and he was like, I care 1242 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,720 Speaker 1: about you so much, but this is this is where. 1243 01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,440 Speaker 1: This is all I got. And that was hard, Like 1244 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:57,240 Speaker 1: I was really sad, but also so glad to have 1245 01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:01,280 Speaker 1: the awareness, right, and also I was so happy for you. 1246 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:03,680 Speaker 1: There was no because I could feel those things. I 1247 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,560 Speaker 1: didn't resent you. I wasn't like it wasn't this deep 1248 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:12,480 Speaker 1: jealousy resentment. I was like, holy shit, good for freaking her. Yeah, 1249 01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: that's great for me. And I love your humility in 1250 01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,600 Speaker 1: that because it's like there's enough space when we're not 1251 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,880 Speaker 1: working so hard to like avoid everything and do this 1252 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,240 Speaker 1: and do that, then there's enough space for both, and 1253 01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,400 Speaker 1: I remember that even like I could sit with you 1254 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,760 Speaker 1: and like, yeah, I'm really glad for me, and also 1255 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,880 Speaker 1: I am really sad for you, and so we could 1256 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,720 Speaker 1: talk about it and be honest about it. And I 1257 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,920 Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh, Catherine doesn't want this for me or 1258 01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,040 Speaker 1: want that for me. It was just like, Yeah, there's 1259 01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,960 Speaker 1: enough space here and enough space in our relationship that 1260 01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,760 Speaker 1: all the feelings can exist. And speaking of all the feelings, 1261 01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,400 Speaker 1: let's move on to the next one. Were kind of 1262 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:52,440 Speaker 1: talking about it. Yeah, I think let's stomp over to anger. 1263 01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,920 Speaker 1: You want to do sadness? Wait, you want to jump 1264 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,400 Speaker 1: right into sadness, we can do that. I feel like 1265 01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,520 Speaker 1: we kind of like blooded to it. We were talking 1266 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,640 Speaker 1: a lot about sadness with the gladness. So if we 1267 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,080 Speaker 1: jump into sadness when we're unaware of our sadness, the 1268 01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: best character that I can think of is e or 1269 01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,800 Speaker 1: uh or we would oh, never mind, I'm not gonna 1270 01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:20,040 Speaker 1: just is the epitome of self pity, and so like, oh, 1271 01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:25,040 Speaker 1: whoa is me? Or right? And I don't even I 1272 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 1: didn't even grow up on Winning the Pooh, but I 1273 01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,920 Speaker 1: did see that the Winning the Pooh movie. Maybe last year, 1274 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,400 Speaker 1: the year before that. Um. But really, like when we 1275 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: are refusing to own our sadness, what happens is we 1276 01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,320 Speaker 1: get self pity. And the best way I see that 1277 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,400 Speaker 1: show up in relationships is like when somebody confronts somebody 1278 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,519 Speaker 1: about something. So it's like, hey, I really would love 1279 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,200 Speaker 1: it if like you took some more time and like 1280 01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,400 Speaker 1: listen to me when I'm talking, and the person says like, oh, yeah, 1281 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,439 Speaker 1: like I'm just the worst, Like I can't do this, 1282 01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,880 Speaker 1: I can't do that. Yeah, I'm a terrible friend. And 1283 01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,639 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we got it. Yourself pity and like shame, 1284 01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,439 Speaker 1: which we'll get into later. You're trying to make me 1285 01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,080 Speaker 1: feel bad for having a need exactly, And so that's 1286 01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,200 Speaker 1: what self pity is. Self pity basically says like I 1287 01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,000 Speaker 1: refused to own my own sadness and so hey, Katherine, 1288 01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,599 Speaker 1: you're going to own it or whoever person out there, 1289 01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,800 Speaker 1: and so it's just like self loathing and self pity 1290 01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,519 Speaker 1: and kind of the victimhood. I'm not going to be 1291 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,080 Speaker 1: sad and so you're gonna pay and you're going to 1292 01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,120 Speaker 1: feel it for me. Sometimes I tell people like feelings 1293 01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,599 Speaker 1: a lot of times, especially this can happen with our parents. 1294 01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 1: It's like dropping your suitcases on the ground and like 1295 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,280 Speaker 1: the other person is required to carry them for you. 1296 01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,080 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna drop my sadness suitcases and like I'm 1297 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 1: gonna force you to pick them up and carry him. 1298 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,479 Speaker 1: And so that's really like when you were aware of 1299 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:52,680 Speaker 1: our sadness, it looks like loathing, um, taking no responsibility, 1300 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,759 Speaker 1: being unaware. Yeah, when we're unaware being a victim to things, 1301 01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,400 Speaker 1: And really what we're saying is like I'm refusing to 1302 01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,519 Speaker 1: grieve something that matters to me. And so the thing 1303 01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,519 Speaker 1: is going back to just because you're not aware of 1304 01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,439 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's there. It just comes out in 1305 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,680 Speaker 1: a really ick way that people don't want to be 1306 01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: around that. I can be around sad people, I don't 1307 01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,000 Speaker 1: want to be around that, right, Yeah, it's like a 1308 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,880 Speaker 1: it's just icky. I like that you're using that because 1309 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,400 Speaker 1: when we're not aware of our sadness, it's just coming 1310 01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 1: out all over the place in all these different ways, 1311 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,240 Speaker 1: and we're wanting other people to own it and take 1312 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:26,760 Speaker 1: care of us and do all these things. But really, 1313 01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,559 Speaker 1: when we are aware of it, what it's saying is like, wow, 1314 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,800 Speaker 1: I've lost something that's really valuable to me. And this 1315 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,360 Speaker 1: is where it takes awareness in general, because you have 1316 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 1: to some degree know what you've lost. Yeah, And so 1317 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:43,720 Speaker 1: oftentimes it can be kind of obvious when we lose 1318 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,760 Speaker 1: a person, Like if you have somebody that you're really 1319 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,720 Speaker 1: close to and you lose them, it's easier and more 1320 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,799 Speaker 1: tangible to connect with, like, wow, that's a huge loss, 1321 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,000 Speaker 1: and I'm really sad about that. But sometimes it's harder 1322 01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:01,599 Speaker 1: relationally to know again, like, oh, I've lost Like if 1323 01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:03,599 Speaker 1: you if we're talking about something and you're not able 1324 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,400 Speaker 1: to respond or listen or be present, I'm like losing 1325 01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,479 Speaker 1: the ability to connect with you, which can be harder 1326 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,519 Speaker 1: to know. I'm sad because you're not. Like if you're 1327 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 1: at dinner or lunch and somebody's like looking at their phone, like, 1328 01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm sad right now because you just checked out. Yes, yeah, 1329 01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,960 Speaker 1: And again it can be really helpful, like well, when 1330 01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,920 Speaker 1: nobody wants to pay attention to me, yea not interesting enough, 1331 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,519 Speaker 1: Kavin so good at all these examples, I'm loving it. 1332 01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,280 Speaker 1: I'm so loving it. Um And says, yeah, sadness, and 1333 01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 1: it's it's rightful. Place is being able to name that 1334 01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:37,040 Speaker 1: something you care about is either no longer available or 1335 01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,680 Speaker 1: not happening. And so the example of you, if we 1336 01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,240 Speaker 1: were at dinner and you're looking at your phone, I 1337 01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,680 Speaker 1: may be sad that, like I care about connecting with 1338 01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,400 Speaker 1: Catherine and she's looking at her phone. And so if 1339 01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm able to name that, I can either get what 1340 01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,639 Speaker 1: I need or sometimes like we've lost something that can't 1341 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,080 Speaker 1: come back or we can't get So I'm thinking like 1342 01:11:55,720 --> 01:12:00,479 Speaker 1: pets or people or even like childhood experience, you know, 1343 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,320 Speaker 1: like there are things that didn't happen for me in 1344 01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,120 Speaker 1: my childhood that I have so much sadness around, Like 1345 01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I really wish that I could have 1346 01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,720 Speaker 1: explored some things other than sports. And I think I 1347 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,519 Speaker 1: talked about this even in my episode. Like I can 1348 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,240 Speaker 1: either sit around and feel sorry for myself of like, 1349 01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,760 Speaker 1: oh I never got to do the girl scouts, like 1350 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,479 Speaker 1: I never got to try our I never got to 1351 01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,760 Speaker 1: do this, or I can say to myself like that 1352 01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,639 Speaker 1: is really sad and like I can never get that back, 1353 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,439 Speaker 1: and also like it's not okay, like it's not okay, 1354 01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,519 Speaker 1: but it also is okay. And and with that, because 1355 01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,320 Speaker 1: you can acknowledge that you lost something you can live 1356 01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,360 Speaker 1: more intentionally. Like that's why I think when you figure 1357 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,400 Speaker 1: that out, then you start doing all these things like 1358 01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,679 Speaker 1: going and creating all these experiences because you are awake 1359 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,080 Speaker 1: to the fact that you lost out on some exactly. 1360 01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,040 Speaker 1: And this shows up a lot. I think a big 1361 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,880 Speaker 1: piece of sadness that people aren't willing to own is 1362 01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,120 Speaker 1: from their family of ord gen like things, because your 1363 01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,760 Speaker 1: parents are human parents and they're not perfect and they 1364 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,519 Speaker 1: can't give you everything that you wanted and needed, like 1365 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:12,519 Speaker 1: they missed you in places, and it is we spend 1366 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,800 Speaker 1: so much energy pretending like that didn't happen and trying 1367 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:19,880 Speaker 1: to avoid it instead of acknowledging I'm so sad that 1368 01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,400 Speaker 1: my parents never came to watch my plays or it 1369 01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,920 Speaker 1: never came to my this or that, instead of actually 1370 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,360 Speaker 1: naming it and being willing to grieve it and say 1371 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,200 Speaker 1: that's not okay. That really hurt me. And you know what, 1372 01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,880 Speaker 1: like my my parent was human and it's okay, Like 1373 01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:38,080 Speaker 1: we don't acknowledge it, and so then we acted out 1374 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,960 Speaker 1: all over the place and like blame other people for 1375 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,400 Speaker 1: not showing up for us and never and don't ask 1376 01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,559 Speaker 1: for what we need and try to meet our needs 1377 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,439 Speaker 1: in weird ways by showing up for other people so 1378 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,839 Speaker 1: they'll show up for us and all this like different stuff. 1379 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,559 Speaker 1: And so yeah, when we're aware of our sadness, we're 1380 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,840 Speaker 1: naming what we've lost. That is crucial. We have to 1381 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,280 Speaker 1: be able to name what the loss is. And then 1382 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,800 Speaker 1: we're willing to grieve the fact that we didn't get 1383 01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:04,920 Speaker 1: it and be sad that it didn't happen. And then 1384 01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,120 Speaker 1: it brings us to this beautiful place of acceptance where 1385 01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,760 Speaker 1: we can say it's not okay, but it's okay, and yeah, 1386 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,400 Speaker 1: we can live intentionally around what we're going to do differently. Yeah, 1387 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,599 Speaker 1: all right, do you want to stay in the sadness 1388 01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,360 Speaker 1: or do we want to move away? Let's get sadness. 1389 01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,679 Speaker 1: Let's get into something a little bit. I was gonna 1390 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,400 Speaker 1: say it more fun, but I don't. I like all 1391 01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,559 Speaker 1: the feelings. I don't want to give sadness about about 1392 01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,439 Speaker 1: but cat, let's let's talk about some anger. Let's talk 1393 01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:35,560 Speaker 1: about some anger. Um. Okay, So again going back to 1394 01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,800 Speaker 1: the like start gate positions, this is probably a lot 1395 01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:44,120 Speaker 1: of people's start gate position. Um, here's the thing. When 1396 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,840 Speaker 1: we're unaware of our anger, it's anger I don't know 1397 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,000 Speaker 1: if this is my judgment of it, but I think 1398 01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,479 Speaker 1: it has the energy that anger has is unlike any 1399 01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,559 Speaker 1: other energy, like it is a specific I mean they're 1400 01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: all different. But like when I was describing how lonely 1401 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,680 Speaker 1: as feels, that's like a sharp pain, anger is like 1402 01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:07,200 Speaker 1: a swirl, Like it's swirling. Um. So when we're unaware 1403 01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,160 Speaker 1: of our anger, I think that leads us more into 1404 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,479 Speaker 1: a depressive state. Which do you want to take away 1405 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,200 Speaker 1: what I know you want to say this. I think 1406 01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,680 Speaker 1: it's really helpful. We didn't really plan the order of 1407 01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:19,680 Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about feelings. When I'm like, oh, 1408 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:24,200 Speaker 1: sadness rolls really easily into anger because you know a 1409 01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,800 Speaker 1: lot of times people will see somebody that's so depressed 1410 01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:30,679 Speaker 1: and we'll say, oh, they're so sad, and it's like, no, Actually, 1411 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,439 Speaker 1: what they've done is they've depressed all of their feelings. 1412 01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:37,559 Speaker 1: And what we need to do and if I'm working 1413 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,639 Speaker 1: with somebody who's depressed, I'm helping them find their anger 1414 01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,360 Speaker 1: around like all of their feelings and we're like waking 1415 01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,559 Speaker 1: back up. And so what Catherine wants me to tell 1416 01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,680 Speaker 1: is I was talking earlier, getting really excited about the 1417 01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:54,040 Speaker 1: fact of like, yeah, when we have when we're not 1418 01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,719 Speaker 1: feeling our anger, what's happening is people end up getting depressed. 1419 01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,600 Speaker 1: And if you depress your feelings far enough, it's like 1420 01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,200 Speaker 1: a ball and you're pressing it underwater and pressing underwater, 1421 01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:06,519 Speaker 1: and I don't know the logistics of all the physics, 1422 01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,759 Speaker 1: but apparently if you press the ball far enough underwater, 1423 01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,720 Speaker 1: it will get stuck. And that's what we're calling depression. 1424 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,439 Speaker 1: But Katherine has a little stories about her picture of 1425 01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,400 Speaker 1: the ball is a little bit more fighting with the ball, 1426 01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,680 Speaker 1: so like, but I think of so this is what 1427 01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:22,880 Speaker 1: I think about it. It's a lot of times we 1428 01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,040 Speaker 1: have so I think of anger. We'll let me back up. 1429 01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:28,920 Speaker 1: I think that the society looks at anger as this 1430 01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,439 Speaker 1: either it's more acceptance if you can control it. But 1431 01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,400 Speaker 1: then when you think about rage, which isn't anger, we've 1432 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,120 Speaker 1: already decided that that's fear. Right, So a lot of 1433 01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,200 Speaker 1: us don't want to well, how do I really want 1434 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:49,840 Speaker 1: to say this? Well, yeah, if you're depressing and you're 1435 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,439 Speaker 1: pushing the ball down, so I think of that as 1436 01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,800 Speaker 1: you're shoving this, I think of as a beach ball. 1437 01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,320 Speaker 1: Did you describe as a beach a beach ball underwater, 1438 01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,720 Speaker 1: and you're holding it there and it takes a lot 1439 01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,400 Speaker 1: of energy right to do that. And as you're doing, 1440 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:08,160 Speaker 1: as you're depressing your anger, you are misplacing it and 1441 01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,880 Speaker 1: putting it in the sad area. So you're misplacing it. 1442 01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,400 Speaker 1: Eventually you're going to run out of energy. You're gonna 1443 01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,840 Speaker 1: need to come up from for air. And when you 1444 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,760 Speaker 1: come up, that ball is going to shoot into this 1445 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,400 Speaker 1: guy and it's going to go sideways backwards. I don't 1446 01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,000 Speaker 1: know where it's gonna go. It's gonna go somewhere, but 1447 01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,240 Speaker 1: not where it was probably supposed to be. Yeah, And 1448 01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:30,639 Speaker 1: so that's where I think people think about anger. They think, one, 1449 01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:32,760 Speaker 1: they think it's rage, which why that's why they think 1450 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:37,040 Speaker 1: it's bad. But also they think of it as being 1451 01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,400 Speaker 1: out of control and that idea. But if you are 1452 01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,280 Speaker 1: awake to your anger, if you pay attention to it, 1453 01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,479 Speaker 1: it doesn't have You can hold the ball like you 1454 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:47,200 Speaker 1: can just hold the ball and it's gonna be okay. Um. 1455 01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,639 Speaker 1: I think anger gets the reputation of like I don't 1456 01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,120 Speaker 1: know if this is also my own judgment, but there's 1457 01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,640 Speaker 1: this idea that like women shouldn't be as angry, you know. 1458 01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,040 Speaker 1: And it's okay for men to be angry and yelling 1459 01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:59,720 Speaker 1: and shouting and doing it. But if a woman does 1460 01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,519 Speaker 1: it and she's like, I don't know, out of control? 1461 01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,000 Speaker 1: Ye crazy, Yeah, she's crazy. And so that's why I 1462 01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:08,519 Speaker 1: think a lot of things we do shove it away. Now. 1463 01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:13,360 Speaker 1: I freaking love anger so much because when I feel anger, 1464 01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:16,559 Speaker 1: I also this goes with fear. They're so tied together. 1465 01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,320 Speaker 1: For me, it is saying, oh my god, I care, 1466 01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:21,040 Speaker 1: I care, I care, I care, I care, I care. 1467 01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,640 Speaker 1: I would not be angry about something that I did 1468 01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:26,960 Speaker 1: not care about, because I'd be like, okay, cool, moving on, right. 1469 01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,360 Speaker 1: Think about it. When somebody tells you a story about 1470 01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,160 Speaker 1: some injustice they felt like, you might not have any 1471 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,320 Speaker 1: feelings towards it because you don't care about it. But 1472 01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:36,640 Speaker 1: if it's a justice that you act and justice that 1473 01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,439 Speaker 1: you care about, you're gonna pay what that's not right, Like, 1474 01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,840 Speaker 1: let's do something about it. Um. So if we can 1475 01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:44,960 Speaker 1: be awake to our anger, that is what's going to 1476 01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:50,559 Speaker 1: create change. Literally, what is going to keep the world functional. Right. 1477 01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,920 Speaker 1: Thank God, people have anger around what's happening in the world. Right, now. 1478 01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,200 Speaker 1: Else we would just let people do whatever the hell 1479 01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:00,599 Speaker 1: they want to do. Um, we'd all be dead. Um. 1480 01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,960 Speaker 1: So essentially anger tells us what we want to be 1481 01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,519 Speaker 1: different in the world. And uh, Megan said this, She goes, 1482 01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,280 Speaker 1: Jesus was the angriest person on earth and he walked 1483 01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:15,080 Speaker 1: around perfect. Yeah, like I have so many clients or 1484 01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,000 Speaker 1: so many people that are like, oh no, not me. 1485 01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm never angry, and I'm like, oh gosh, you know. 1486 01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,320 Speaker 1: And so we have to do a lot of work, 1487 01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:25,240 Speaker 1: especially even being in the Bible belt down here. Um, 1488 01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, regardless of what people believe spiritually or whatever. 1489 01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,200 Speaker 1: If even if you're just looking at the Bible is 1490 01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,479 Speaker 1: like a good book, you know. What it's saying is 1491 01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:37,760 Speaker 1: like Jesus flipped over temples. Jesus flipped over tables in 1492 01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:41,240 Speaker 1: the temples. And my own version of explaining that story 1493 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,600 Speaker 1: is he's like, what the heck, Like you aren't going 1494 01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,680 Speaker 1: to sell crap in my dad's house, Like this is 1495 01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:49,280 Speaker 1: not going to happen in here. And so he basically 1496 01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:53,320 Speaker 1: was flipping over table saying like no. And what the 1497 01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:56,200 Speaker 1: Bible also says is that Jesus didn't send and so 1498 01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,880 Speaker 1: something like doesn't add up there like either anger is 1499 01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:03,679 Speaker 1: okay or Jesus was being angry and sitting like yeah, 1500 01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but you've got to kind of pick 1501 01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,720 Speaker 1: what side you're on there. But really his anger was 1502 01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,479 Speaker 1: telling him what he wanted to be different and then 1503 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:14,759 Speaker 1: also helping him create boundaries. Yes, if we don't get angry, 1504 01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,639 Speaker 1: we will never have any boundaries, We never have any 1505 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:22,479 Speaker 1: change change or about yeah, um so yeah, ancher is 1506 01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,760 Speaker 1: all it is is having an experience where you're like, oh, 1507 01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,840 Speaker 1: I care about this, and then it gives you the 1508 01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,439 Speaker 1: opportunity to go get what you need or walk away 1509 01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,160 Speaker 1: from what you don't. That's the other one, Like I 1510 01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:36,400 Speaker 1: hope that some people get angry in some situations because 1511 01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,920 Speaker 1: it's telling them get the hell out. If you are 1512 01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,120 Speaker 1: asleep to the fact that you're angry that somebody's doing 1513 01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:45,320 Speaker 1: something that doesn't feel right with you, you'll allow yourself 1514 01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:50,639 Speaker 1: to get abused, exactly, manipulated, neglected, whatever it is. Um 1515 01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,320 Speaker 1: so gosh, Like I want us to take anger back, Like, 1516 01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:57,040 Speaker 1: let's all get really freaking angry, because anger doesn't always 1517 01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:00,559 Speaker 1: look like flipping tables. No, it looks like me saying hey, 1518 01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:05,519 Speaker 1: when you here's one This is one that Megan might 1519 01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:11,680 Speaker 1: use towards me. Katherine, When you leave your crap all 1520 01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,479 Speaker 1: over the office, I feel really angry because I try 1521 01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,560 Speaker 1: to make this space really calming and comming environment. So 1522 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask if we're going to continue to 1523 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,360 Speaker 1: stay in a relationship where we share in office, that 1524 01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,759 Speaker 1: you respect the space that we're in by not leaving 1525 01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:34,000 Speaker 1: your trash, your bomb, but which you guys know that 1526 01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:36,320 Speaker 1: s freaking bomb. The snacks from Trader Joe's their peanut butter, 1527 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,360 Speaker 1: a little like, oh that's they're so good, they're gonna 1528 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,559 Speaker 1: be our first sponsor. But you're like, can you please 1529 01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,479 Speaker 1: not leave those bags out in the chair now. I 1530 01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,040 Speaker 1: don't know if that's really how you feel, but that 1531 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,040 Speaker 1: would be an example of like, yeah, ask for like, 1532 01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,519 Speaker 1: get some respect. I only feel that way when there's 1533 01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,600 Speaker 1: none left. But I'm in the bags and I'm like, 1534 01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,200 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, I love how you're talking about that. 1535 01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:01,760 Speaker 1: Of like, again, that anger prompts you to say something, 1536 01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,800 Speaker 1: but it's also still in a kind and caring, clear 1537 01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:09,200 Speaker 1: way versus like when we're talking about rage. Rage is uncontrolled. 1538 01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:12,040 Speaker 1: So the best way to differentiate between if you're in 1539 01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:15,160 Speaker 1: anger or if you're in rage, is like do you 1540 01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:18,519 Speaker 1: feel safe within your own body? And do other people 1541 01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,680 Speaker 1: feel safe around you while you're expressing this? Because even 1542 01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,439 Speaker 1: though Jesus was flipping the table, I don't know how 1543 01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:25,920 Speaker 1: he did it, but if he didn't send, then he 1544 01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,479 Speaker 1: obviously was doing it in a way that was contained somehow. Yeah. 1545 01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:33,800 Speaker 1: And if the answer is time this is rage, then 1546 01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:38,040 Speaker 1: go figure out why you're afraid. Yeah. Um, all right, 1547 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:44,280 Speaker 1: So guys, this is a big one. Done, done, done. 1548 01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,240 Speaker 1: Megan is going to talk about I want to ask 1549 01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:49,880 Speaker 1: the audience like, what do you think is next? But 1550 01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:54,559 Speaker 1: they can't talk to Yeah, well, okay, everybody shout out 1551 01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,640 Speaker 1: what we're on Facebook Live right now? What do you 1552 01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:03,280 Speaker 1: think it's coming next? We shame? Shame can tell us 1553 01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:07,360 Speaker 1: about shame. This is another personal faith because I think 1554 01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:11,599 Speaker 1: there's so many misconceptions in our culture around shame. Um, 1555 01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,760 Speaker 1: A lot of what's talked about culturally or even like 1556 01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,080 Speaker 1: in psychology or pop psychology right now is really this 1557 01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:21,519 Speaker 1: message that like, shame is bad, get rid of shame. 1558 01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,639 Speaker 1: And I really want to be careful to differentiate between 1559 01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,400 Speaker 1: win shame It is in is in its place of 1560 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:29,640 Speaker 1: like not being helpful and then when shame is in 1561 01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:32,240 Speaker 1: a place of being helpful, and so the shame that 1562 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,000 Speaker 1: people are trying to get rid of right now culturally 1563 01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:37,439 Speaker 1: is this shame that I would call toxic shame that 1564 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:41,360 Speaker 1: says like I'm bad, something's wrong with me, I'm messed up, 1565 01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:44,880 Speaker 1: and I'm all about it, Like, let's get rid of that. Um. 1566 01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,760 Speaker 1: People are so familiar with that. So when we're not 1567 01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,320 Speaker 1: aware of our shame and like the shame is kind 1568 01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,720 Speaker 1: of controlling us, it's toxic, and it looks like a 1569 01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:58,560 Speaker 1: self attack, like there's no space to be in this 1570 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,759 Speaker 1: place of like reasonable or like um able to hold 1571 01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,840 Speaker 1: like our humanity with maybe what happened, and so it's 1572 01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:10,160 Speaker 1: just you're bad. I'm bad, Yeah, you're bad. UM. Kind 1573 01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:14,240 Speaker 1: of like the difference too, of like um, I told 1574 01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,240 Speaker 1: alive versus I'm a liar, So one is more of 1575 01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,439 Speaker 1: like an action statement and the other one is more 1576 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,240 Speaker 1: like a what do you call that? Like a label 1577 01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,760 Speaker 1: you're putting on yourself. And so when Renee Brown or 1578 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,360 Speaker 1: whoever is talking about how bad shame is and like 1579 01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,840 Speaker 1: let's get rid of shame, she is talking about this 1580 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,400 Speaker 1: toxic shame that we're not aware of that tells us 1581 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:39,679 Speaker 1: all these really negative, attacking, yeah, attacking things about ourselves. 1582 01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of this other side of shame 1583 01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,960 Speaker 1: and like introducing people to like the ways in which 1584 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,760 Speaker 1: same can be helpful and when we're when shame is 1585 01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:52,080 Speaker 1: in its rightful place, Shame tells us like I'm a 1586 01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:54,960 Speaker 1: human being, I'm not perfect, and I'm not God, I'm 1587 01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,640 Speaker 1: not a higher power, and so it really allows for 1588 01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,360 Speaker 1: all this freedom and acceptance to be like, yeah, I'm human, 1589 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:06,280 Speaker 1: I make mistakes, like I'm not perfect, i am not 1590 01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,679 Speaker 1: a God. I'm just a human. And really what happens 1591 01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,240 Speaker 1: is it creates and it leads to humility and empathy. 1592 01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,920 Speaker 1: And so the way that I like to think about 1593 01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:16,920 Speaker 1: this is I tell people, I'm like, if you didn't 1594 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,120 Speaker 1: feel some level of shame, you wouldn't wear clothing, Like 1595 01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,560 Speaker 1: you would just leave your house. But something about like 1596 01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,760 Speaker 1: the degree of shame you feel, it's like, oh, I'm 1597 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:27,560 Speaker 1: gonna put clothes on, And most of the time we 1598 01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:30,360 Speaker 1: don't think about that, We're not like this is so bad, 1599 01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:32,560 Speaker 1: I feel shame. I'm going to put a shirt on, 1600 01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:36,760 Speaker 1: like we just do it. And the same is true 1601 01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,320 Speaker 1: with like other things, like most of the time people 1602 01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:42,439 Speaker 1: close the bathroom door, like when they go to the bathroom. 1603 01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:43,960 Speaker 1: If you grew up in a family where the door 1604 01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,880 Speaker 1: was left open, like you probably had some degree of 1605 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,280 Speaker 1: shamelessness in your family. Um or the same thing with 1606 01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,599 Speaker 1: like even table etiquette, like we most of the time 1607 01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,200 Speaker 1: use a knife and a fork, and so sometimes even 1608 01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:58,960 Speaker 1: shame is cultural like here it's appropriate to use a 1609 01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,280 Speaker 1: knife and a fork, but like when I lived in Africa, Um, 1610 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,559 Speaker 1: in Ethiopia, you actually don't use utensils. You just use 1611 01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,720 Speaker 1: only one hand and then you don't use the other hand. 1612 01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:11,280 Speaker 1: So you almost have to know even like the cultural 1613 01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:15,479 Speaker 1: areas of shame, but we want shame like also shame, 1614 01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,920 Speaker 1: Like sometimes I get a lot of requests from people 1615 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,400 Speaker 1: for my time to hang out all this stuff, and 1616 01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,120 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm just like, hey, like I can't, like I 1617 01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:27,519 Speaker 1: don't have the capacity right now to do that in 1618 01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,639 Speaker 1: my life. And you know, when I have to tell 1619 01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,320 Speaker 1: somebody that, I feel sad, and I also feel some 1620 01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,200 Speaker 1: level of shame of like wow, I can't be all 1621 01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,719 Speaker 1: things to all people. I don't feel guilty like telling 1622 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,519 Speaker 1: somebody no, I don't have the time for this is 1623 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,800 Speaker 1: not outside of my value system. And so you're saying, 1624 01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:48,040 Speaker 1: I feel ashamed because I'm waking up to the fact 1625 01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,839 Speaker 1: that I'm a human. I'm limited. Yeah, I'm human. I'm limited, 1626 01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:55,800 Speaker 1: And man, that's hard. At the same time, thank god 1627 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,240 Speaker 1: you realize that, because if you don't wake up to 1628 01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,599 Speaker 1: the fact you're human, in that can turn to toxic 1629 01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:04,880 Speaker 1: shame if you can't be all things to all people. Yeah, 1630 01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:08,200 Speaker 1: and like even sometimes like there are people in my 1631 01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:10,760 Speaker 1: life or in my office whatever where it's like, wow, 1632 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:13,160 Speaker 1: I really want to help them, and for whatever reason, 1633 01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm not able to help them, or they don't want 1634 01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,320 Speaker 1: to help or whatever. And so that also comes to 1635 01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:21,040 Speaker 1: a place of like this healthy shame of like I 1636 01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:24,280 Speaker 1: can't fix people. Like I can be a helpful guide, 1637 01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:26,920 Speaker 1: I can give my all, I can give resources, I 1638 01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:29,479 Speaker 1: can have bound like with boundaries, all this stuff, but 1639 01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,720 Speaker 1: sometimes it just doesn't end in the way or it 1640 01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:33,680 Speaker 1: doesn't proceed in the way that I wish it did. 1641 01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,360 Speaker 1: And so in that like I can feel my sadness, 1642 01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,920 Speaker 1: I can feel my other feelings, but I don't feel guilt. 1643 01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,599 Speaker 1: I didn't do anything wrong other than being a human. 1644 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,240 Speaker 1: And part of my humanity is like I can't heal 1645 01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,320 Speaker 1: people I can be an agent of healing, but I 1646 01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,840 Speaker 1: am not the healer. Yeah, and so I am a 1647 01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:56,639 Speaker 1: really really big fan of like accepting acknowledging this shame 1648 01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:59,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't work for us, and really doing the work 1649 01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:05,360 Speaker 1: around that because nobody's bad, nobody's wrong, like nobody's broken. Um, 1650 01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:10,000 Speaker 1: everybody is human, and along with humanity is like humility, 1651 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,160 Speaker 1: acknowledgement of limitedness, acknowledgement of some sort of higher power, 1652 01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,320 Speaker 1: and really being able to step into that is actually 1653 01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,200 Speaker 1: really free. And I almost wish that we could create 1654 01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:23,759 Speaker 1: different words around this because the way you explain shame, 1655 01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,160 Speaker 1: it's like thank god we have that, but shame has 1656 01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:29,280 Speaker 1: such a negative it's I mean, with a lot of 1657 01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,879 Speaker 1: these words. But I think right now in the society, 1658 01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:35,360 Speaker 1: when right now because there are movements out there to 1659 01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,519 Speaker 1: get rid of toxic shame, but because the other part 1660 01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,840 Speaker 1: of it hasn't been looked at as much. Yeah, I 1661 01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,880 Speaker 1: wish we could almost change toxic shame to something else 1662 01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:48,479 Speaker 1: so we're able to hold because all you're saying is 1663 01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:51,680 Speaker 1: healthy shame. If that's what we want to call it, 1664 01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:57,720 Speaker 1: humility humans and like why wouldn't you want that? Um, 1665 01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:02,960 Speaker 1: So let's jump into the last feeling, Cat's going to 1666 01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:06,280 Speaker 1: take over this last feeling. So the last one would 1667 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:10,479 Speaker 1: be guilt, which in the past, very like generally and 1668 01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:14,000 Speaker 1: generically we would explain shame and guilt as to kind 1669 01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:18,200 Speaker 1: of like almost like step step brother, step cousins, what 1670 01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:23,759 Speaker 1: is the word step sister, step something step there closely 1671 01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:28,000 Speaker 1: like each other, actually like paternal twins, because sometimes people 1672 01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:33,040 Speaker 1: get them confused with each other, but they're different set 1673 01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:36,000 Speaker 1: up Similarly, I don't know that I just thought of 1674 01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,200 Speaker 1: that one right now, so verdicts still out it's good 1675 01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:43,519 Speaker 1: or not um So generally, so shame had has been 1676 01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,160 Speaker 1: looked at as I am bad, and then to differentiate 1677 01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:49,840 Speaker 1: that with guilt, guilt is I did something bad. Now 1678 01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:51,800 Speaker 1: we just kind of like debunked some of that with shame, 1679 01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,599 Speaker 1: but guilt still stands there. Like when you feel guilt, 1680 01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:57,639 Speaker 1: when you allow yourself to feel guilt, when you're aware 1681 01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:00,880 Speaker 1: of it and you're awake to it, you can identify, hey, 1682 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,880 Speaker 1: I did something that's outside of who I am. So 1683 01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,320 Speaker 1: if you're unaware in your sleep to your guilt, you 1684 01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,120 Speaker 1: are going to be doing all sorts of things that 1685 01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:12,160 Speaker 1: are for lack of a better word, it's kind of 1686 01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,320 Speaker 1: sucked up when it comes down to your values, to 1687 01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:17,640 Speaker 1: your morals, right, you just you would do anything. You 1688 01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,120 Speaker 1: would steal, you would lie, you would cheat, you would 1689 01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:24,040 Speaker 1: whatever it is. And so yes, I want to be 1690 01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,640 Speaker 1: feel guilty because when I feel guilt, it's almost like 1691 01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:30,680 Speaker 1: a meter. It's like a hot cold meter, Like am 1692 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:34,360 Speaker 1: I being congruent and I'm being incongruent? So guilt can 1693 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,040 Speaker 1: be different things for different people, depending on what their 1694 01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:40,439 Speaker 1: values are. And I think to accurately feel this emotion, 1695 01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:44,280 Speaker 1: you need to really identify what are my values and 1696 01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:46,519 Speaker 1: my morals and what do I stand for. But if 1697 01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,360 Speaker 1: you're aware of your guilt, like all that is is 1698 01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,040 Speaker 1: allowing you to live inside who you are. That's all 1699 01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:56,040 Speaker 1: that is. It's helping you create boundaries of containment to 1700 01:30:56,160 --> 01:31:00,360 Speaker 1: stay true to yourself. So that one's pretty simple. Yeah, 1701 01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,519 Speaker 1: Like I would feel guilt if I hit my friend's 1702 01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,200 Speaker 1: car and then drove off for good reason, and I 1703 01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,000 Speaker 1: will keep you in relationship, but yes, because it will 1704 01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:14,960 Speaker 1: lead you to going and asking for forgiveness and getting repair. Yeah, totally. Um, 1705 01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:18,120 Speaker 1: So that's all I feel like we really need to 1706 01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:21,760 Speaker 1: say on GIL. Yeah, GIL is kind of It's an 1707 01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,599 Speaker 1: easy one per se, because really the question that goes 1708 01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:26,240 Speaker 1: with guilt is did I do something outside of my 1709 01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:29,280 Speaker 1: value system? If the answers yes, go and make it right. 1710 01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,200 Speaker 1: If the answers no, then you probably feel shame. Yeah, 1711 01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:36,280 Speaker 1: And I think the problem the area where that gets 1712 01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:39,160 Speaker 1: really challenging for people is when people haven't been able 1713 01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,160 Speaker 1: to sit and like, well, what what is me? Like? 1714 01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:44,679 Speaker 1: What does feel okay? And what does feel not okay? 1715 01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:46,880 Speaker 1: Because a lot of times we're brought up to believe 1716 01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:50,080 Speaker 1: things that might not feel right to us, whether that's 1717 01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:54,920 Speaker 1: too contained or um or it's too uncontained. And if 1718 01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:56,680 Speaker 1: you think about religious like a lot of people will 1719 01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:59,479 Speaker 1: become adults and like, well, I don't know if I 1720 01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,479 Speaker 1: feel bad about this, Like, for example, what are you sex? 1721 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:04,680 Speaker 1: Like having sex outside of marriage? People be like, well, 1722 01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't. I never did it because I grew up 1723 01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:09,640 Speaker 1: in the church and they said it's bad. But like, 1724 01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:12,240 Speaker 1: I don't even know if I'm a Christian, So like, 1725 01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's bad. So should I feel 1726 01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:16,560 Speaker 1: guilt about this? And so that's where guilt can be 1727 01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:18,960 Speaker 1: sticky because you can't figure out because that's when you're 1728 01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna move into like Shane whatever, um, but I think 1729 01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:27,120 Speaker 1: so if you're really wanting to to dive into figuring 1730 01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:28,560 Speaker 1: out the guilt part, it's like you've got to go 1731 01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:32,040 Speaker 1: sit with somebody figure out what you believe a man. Yeah, 1732 01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:34,479 Speaker 1: I think that's awesome that you're bringing that up, because 1733 01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:36,800 Speaker 1: you have to know your value system to know if 1734 01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:39,000 Speaker 1: you're within it or if you're without outside of it. 1735 01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,519 Speaker 1: And a lot of times we just adopt these value systems, 1736 01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:44,920 Speaker 1: either from our families or from our culture, from like 1737 01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:47,720 Speaker 1: religion or whatever, which we may or may not even 1738 01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:50,360 Speaker 1: subscribe to. So one time I got in this really 1739 01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:53,160 Speaker 1: long discussion with somebody about how they were trying to 1740 01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,439 Speaker 1: convince me that it wasn't that it was okay to 1741 01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,360 Speaker 1: tell white lies, and I was like, that may be 1742 01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:01,639 Speaker 1: okay for you, and and really genuinely like that if 1743 01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:03,680 Speaker 1: that's okay for you, it's okay for you. You know 1744 01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:08,439 Speaker 1: that's not okay for me. I don't want to. The 1745 01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,439 Speaker 1: way that I avoid telling like a white lie is 1746 01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:14,120 Speaker 1: I just find something that I can actually say that 1747 01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,720 Speaker 1: is true that I subscribe to. And so that's a 1748 01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:20,240 Speaker 1: really good example of somebody having a different value system 1749 01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:22,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't make me better or worse. Than them for 1750 01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:25,080 Speaker 1: the way that I do it. We have different value 1751 01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,280 Speaker 1: systems and so we're going to feel guilt in different areas. 1752 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,320 Speaker 1: And if you don't know your value system, you're going 1753 01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:32,160 Speaker 1: to feel shitty all the time because you're gonna be 1754 01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:35,680 Speaker 1: all the time and we're just gonna be asleep to it, 1755 01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:39,760 Speaker 1: and like robbing banks, we're gonna be operating out of 1756 01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,920 Speaker 1: all everybody else's value system. Yeah. I love that. If 1757 01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,680 Speaker 1: you don't know your own value system, you really are 1758 01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,400 Speaker 1: going to feel guilt all the time. Um. And one 1759 01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:49,639 Speaker 1: thing I just want to stay really quick going back 1760 01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:54,439 Speaker 1: to shame is somebody said this to um My Tori. 1761 01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:57,680 Speaker 1: Um she was going to see my friend. Tory was 1762 01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:59,360 Speaker 1: going to see a therapist since she was talking about 1763 01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:03,280 Speaker 1: feeling strong negative feelings towards a man, and she was like, 1764 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:05,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that I hate him, and 1765 01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:08,679 Speaker 1: her theory the favorites, and Theory said back, like why. 1766 01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,280 Speaker 1: She was like, well, because essentially she was shaming, like 1767 01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,880 Speaker 1: I feel shame for hating somebody. And his response was, 1768 01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:21,200 Speaker 1: why can't you hate somebody? You're not Jesus, which is 1769 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:24,000 Speaker 1: the essence of what you're just saying. Of Like, if 1770 01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:27,559 Speaker 1: we can be human, like have the shame. That's okay. 1771 01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:30,400 Speaker 1: You're waking up to the fact that you're human and 1772 01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:33,599 Speaker 1: you have these feelings towards people. It's okay. You don't 1773 01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:36,720 Speaker 1: have to fight that. You would just be like essentially, yeah, 1774 01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:39,400 Speaker 1: she hated the guy. It is what it is. Yeah, 1775 01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of reached me to a nice stopping place 1776 01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:46,559 Speaker 1: of like just wrapping everything up. Somebody, a wise person 1777 01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:50,120 Speaker 1: once told me when I was struggling through my own stuff. 1778 01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:57,040 Speaker 1: They were like, you know, Megan, um, I don't I 1779 01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:59,320 Speaker 1: want to say it. They basically said I was talking 1780 01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:01,080 Speaker 1: about this and that no, why I can't why I 1781 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:02,840 Speaker 1: can't do all the stuff. And they were like, hey, 1782 01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:07,120 Speaker 1: you know what, like feeling feelings and acknowledging them and 1783 01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:10,840 Speaker 1: naming them and expressing them, it really actually won't kill you, 1784 01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,000 Speaker 1: but your avoidance of them really might. And I really 1785 01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:17,599 Speaker 1: have found that to be true, Like, when people are 1786 01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:20,479 Speaker 1: working really hard to avoid feelings, we are doing all 1787 01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:24,600 Speaker 1: sorts of crazy shit and acting out, and there's addictions 1788 01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:28,200 Speaker 1: and all the stuff that we named earlier that really 1789 01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:30,160 Speaker 1: can't kill you. But what I've found is that when 1790 01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:34,439 Speaker 1: people are naming them, expressing them, feeling them. Um, I've 1791 01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:38,120 Speaker 1: yet to see somebody die over that. Yes, Nope, nobody 1792 01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,559 Speaker 1: has died in my office because they identified feeling fear 1793 01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:47,040 Speaker 1: or anger. I can attest to that. Um. So I 1794 01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:50,400 Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed this. This wasn't really I mean, 1795 01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:53,760 Speaker 1: essentially it's kind of easy because it's like this is 1796 01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,200 Speaker 1: what we do all day, we talk about our feeling 1797 01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:00,200 Speaker 1: super But yeah, thanks guys for listening. And if you 1798 01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:01,559 Speaker 1: have any questions about any of this or you want 1799 01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:03,880 Speaker 1: to learn more, we'd be happy to send you some 1800 01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:08,160 Speaker 1: resources and some reading material. UM that might help you 1801 01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:09,960 Speaker 1: dig deeper into some of the stuff because we just 1802 01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:12,960 Speaker 1: literally touched the surface of all these Yeah, we really 1803 01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,120 Speaker 1: really did. Um. We've got great books and resources and 1804 01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:18,640 Speaker 1: other other things that we can pass along, or you 1805 01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:20,760 Speaker 1: can you know, actually come into the office and do 1806 01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:23,760 Speaker 1: some therapy if you're not already doing that. Um, we 1807 01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:26,200 Speaker 1: can either see ourselves or point you in the right direction. 1808 01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:28,640 Speaker 1: And then the other thing I would say is let 1809 01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:31,040 Speaker 1: us know what else like you all want to know about, 1810 01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,640 Speaker 1: because we'd be happy to cover that in additional episodes 1811 01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:37,960 Speaker 1: and dive deeper into that. Have a blessed day, super 1812 01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:40,200 Speaker 1: blessed thanks for sitting on the couch with me again 1813 01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,720 Speaker 1: Field all the fields feel the feelings. Peace Out by