Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Okay, that's messed up In SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Liza Traeger, I'm Kara Klank. You guys know the drill.
Speaker 1: It's SVU episodes, it's true crimes, it's guests and first
Speaker 1: it's gab and listen.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you have things to tell me.
Speaker 1: But I did just get a message before we got
Speaker 1: on this recording from a listener who said that they
Speaker 1: cannot divulge their sources, but they heard that Dick Wolf
Speaker 1: was in a very quiet meeting and his phone went
Speaker 1: off and the tone was the SVU theme song. So
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's true, it's gossip. It's fact
Speaker 1: to me, and it's funny to me. That's really funny.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 2: It's like every time the phone rings, he's reminded of
Speaker 2: a new more money.
Speaker 1: He's about yeah, exactly everything, Like I bet he gets
Speaker 1: a piece of the ring tone, you know, Like even
Speaker 1: that he's like, yep, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: We should fucking find the composer, dude.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know everyone's doing the dances and the
Speaker 2: fun videos and you know the guy and the piano,
Speaker 2: but like, who's the composer?
Speaker 1: And also why is the SVU theme song so much
Speaker 1: better than the regular and the criminal intent? They're all
Speaker 1: kind of variations on the same one, but SF you
Speaker 1: just slaps harder. No one's doing dances to original on order. No,
Speaker 1: it is just the best, like all together.
Speaker 2: I don't think original recipe thought that sv would kick
Speaker 2: them off their throne, you know, but like it is
Speaker 2: what it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fucking good. Oh.
Speaker 2: I ran into a good friend of ours, Mindy Tucker.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and god, I got the best photo. I
Speaker 2: can't you, guys, you don't even know what's coming. She's
Speaker 2: the best photographer in the game. I would never hire
Speaker 2: anyone else but her, to be honest, And she invented,
Speaker 2: I think, comedy photography in the New York comedy scene
Speaker 2: for sure before I even got here.
Speaker 3: I knew about her before I even moved to New York.
Speaker 2: And now it's really with the Internet become a thing
Speaker 2: where a lot of people do it, and a lot
Speaker 2: of people are talented at it, but no one makes
Speaker 2: people look better.
Speaker 3: She was the first. Yeah, no, she is the best.
Speaker 1: And I just ran into her husband when I was
Speaker 1: in the city over the summer because he does stand up,
Speaker 1: which I didn't.
Speaker 2: Know, and he was great. Well, Kara, she wanted me
Speaker 2: to send you a message. What that She listens to
Speaker 2: the pod and she was really happy what we said
Speaker 2: about the Saudi Already Arabia Comedy Festival and then she
Speaker 2: felt so isolated and disappointed in people and that we
Speaker 2: made her feel heard.
Speaker 3: Mindy baby anytime.
Speaker 2: Because she's just rejected that she has been doing for
Speaker 2: a decade because she's.
Speaker 1: Putting her money where her mouthress. Yeah, but yeah, so
Speaker 1: shout out to her. She's the best. And if you're
Speaker 1: in New York or anywhere getting married or have an
Speaker 1: event or or a comp or you need a headshot.
Speaker 1: The only reason she didn't do my wedding is because
Speaker 1: she was invited to my wedding.
Speaker 3: That's yeah, like she didn't. I like she was. She
Speaker 3: didn't do my wedding photos because she was invited.
Speaker 1: But what was I gonna say if any of you
Speaker 1: have been to our live shows and you've gone on
Speaker 1: my venmo and you're like, is that you with the
Speaker 1: brown hair?
Speaker 3: That's a Indy.
Speaker 2: A lot of when you get a Mindy, you keep
Speaker 2: the Mindy as your like profile for a while, like
Speaker 2: it used to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you got a Mindy, it's like a huge deal.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope that he goes back and listens to
Speaker 1: our episode where we interviewed James or Baniac because I
Speaker 1: told him about how she has such a sweet little
Speaker 1: Southern accent because she's from Alabama and she'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm at James or Bainiac and we
Speaker 1: told him that, and you know, now it's now, it's
Speaker 1: on It's on podcast film forever.
Speaker 2: The way we get to flex about our guests. I
Speaker 2: did a Devin Walker's music podcast, so if it hasn't
Speaker 2: come out, like look out for that. But I name
Speaker 2: Dropp because I was talking about stuff and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know when Wycliffe did the pod and he does,
Speaker 2: excuse me, it's like so to flex. I did meet
Speaker 2: a Bravo celebrity last night. You don't watch below Deck,
Speaker 2: but I met Fraser. Oh okay, I've heard the name
Speaker 2: and I did last night.
Speaker 1: He was so like, is he on the one with
Speaker 1: Captain Jason or is he a captain Sandy guy or
Speaker 1: is he with the old guy Lee is gone?
Speaker 3: He's sandy.
Speaker 2: I've only watched two of his seasons when he started,
Speaker 2: but now he's like full chiefs too. I mean, he
Speaker 2: looked and smelled incredible. He really did. It was an honor.
Speaker 2: And then I also saw Jeffrey self last night. Oh,
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen, I would say in years.
Speaker 1: He I thought of when Diane Keaton passed away. I
Speaker 1: literally thought it.
Speaker 2: So I obviously brought that up, and he goes, no,
Speaker 2: I was taking a nap or he was reading, he
Speaker 2: was doing something, and he said he woke up to
Speaker 2: eighty eight texts and that he just saw. I was like,
Speaker 2: thinking of you. You're the first person I thought of,
Speaker 2: and he goes, great, Cola Scola died.
Speaker 3: This is because they're best friends.
Speaker 2: Jeffrey with Cole's date to the Tony's And if you're
Speaker 2: unfamiliar with Jeffrey's work, probably one of the smartest people
Speaker 2: I've ever met.
Speaker 3: And funny, it's so funny.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and then so I don't know if it
Speaker 2: was relief that it was Diane Keyan, but like, obviously
Speaker 2: never thought about.
Speaker 3: They're very connected.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, someone that wait. I don't think I told
Speaker 1: you that. I watched The Drop.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So Meghan Fay, he was out last night too. Oh okay.
Speaker 1: Jeffries is the waiter in that movie, and he's so funny.
Speaker 1: I really had a star studded night. It's all coming
Speaker 1: back to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Meghan Fay, he was out last night with her
Speaker 2: boyfriend Leo Woodhull Woodhull And yeah, I partied with my
Speaker 2: I forgot, I forgot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I watched The Drop on a flight. I
Speaker 1: liked it. Yeah, I liked it. I thought it was cool.
Speaker 1: And it's like a bottle movie, like it all takes
Speaker 1: place basically in two places and but mostly one.
Speaker 2: It's also just captivating, talented, hot, and so nice and
Speaker 2: talks about our podcast so kindly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was photos from last night. Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I love how you're piecing it all together.
Speaker 1: Now, what other guests of our podcast did you run
Speaker 1: into that you forgot?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I have no photos, Okay, so that's interesting. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I definitely had a great time. I did a game show,
Speaker 2: Matt and Dave's Yeah, SHRAMADNSA And it's just they're really smart.
Speaker 1: There is a winner my strake. I won and it's controversial.
Speaker 2: I did think the other guy deserved it, and so
Speaker 2: that's tough.
Speaker 3: I drink. Did you have Devin or a Meal?
Speaker 2: I had a meal, okay, and they both were great,
Speaker 2: but like a Meal lost last time because he didn't
Speaker 2: know the words to the lip sync and he didn't
Speaker 2: know the words again to the lip sync, and so
Speaker 2: to me, that was insane and I was like a
Speaker 2: toddler and Tiara Mom I was in the audience yelling
Speaker 2: at him, like mouth, what was the song Olivia Dean?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a weird song. They picked their two hip.
Speaker 2: It was like it's a woman that's opening for Sabrina Carpenter.
Speaker 2: But Matt said MSG was sad, like people were there first.
Speaker 1: So she has a big hit. Yeah, I've heard of
Speaker 1: her on Who Weekly. Yeah, they've they've talked about her.
Speaker 2: So I had I listened to it a bunch and
Speaker 2: they're like, we listened to it. I go, did you
Speaker 2: look at the lyrics? Did you google the lyrics? And
Speaker 2: they both stared at me, and Devin has a podcast
Speaker 2: about lyrics. I go, So you just thought you were
Speaker 2: going to listen to the song without looking at the
Speaker 2: lyrics in front.
Speaker 3: Of your face. Oh my god, it's like straight. Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: There was a photo of Ashley Tisdale and they can't
Speaker 2: get help from their coaches, and the straight men have
Speaker 2: to like, guess who it is? It was Ashley Tisdale,
Speaker 2: Emil wrote Avril Levine, question mark.
Speaker 5: It was.
Speaker 3: And then we have to do a fashion moment.
Speaker 2: We have to like go backstage and cut up a
Speaker 2: T shirt and like design it to honor their straight culture.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So we're working on this thing and I want to
Speaker 2: do a backless thing and then in front, and we're
Speaker 2: thinking and I go, oh, how about we do the
Speaker 2: j Lo Green Versace dress.
Speaker 1: And he goes, oh, can you pull up? Can you
Speaker 1: pull up a photo of that? I go, it's not
Speaker 1: burned into your brain. I go, it's the reason Google
Speaker 1: images was invented.
Speaker 2: He goes, for real, I go, the fact that you
Speaker 2: don't know this is not gay or straight like this is.
Speaker 2: He's also young, he's like twenty five or twenty six,
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, it's just the straits are really funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah them straights, Yeah.
Speaker 2: This straight they're just it's just different culture, it really is,
Speaker 2: but and then it's dry race board secrets and us
Speaker 2: two teams had the same answer also three times but
Speaker 2: also wrong screwp mind but incorrect, but also cuoma is
Speaker 2: an answer for one. So I'm excited I got it right.
Speaker 2: So I'm like celebrating my sign up and I go,
Speaker 2: can please nobody take a photo and post that please
Speaker 2: of me holding a thing that says cuoma.
Speaker 3: I forgot the name of this. Casey had Junior g
Speaker 3: to listen.
Speaker 2: Someone explained a horror movie to me, scariest thing I've
Speaker 2: ever heard. Could me and Meggie, we couldn't even take
Speaker 2: it in. I have to watch it. So basically, this
Speaker 2: woman you probably know it. This woman and her husband
Speaker 2: moved to Ireland in some remote, remote village. He's a doctor,
Speaker 2: so he's working an overnight at the doctor.
Speaker 3: What is it called adity? Yes, I just watch it. Wow,
Speaker 3: Casey only watch it last week?
Speaker 1: Sentence Okay, so tell me how you let me just
Speaker 1: describe it to a kara because it is so this is.
Speaker 6: A great I know exactly what you're setting up and
Speaker 6: this is a great conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So she hears something right, so she hears something down
Speaker 2: the route whatever. So she goes outside to check it
Speaker 2: out or check the mail something. She goes outside. When
Speaker 2: she goes back in, immediately the door bell rings. She
Speaker 2: you know, who is it? They go, hey, I just
Speaker 2: saw a man go into your house while you're outside.
Speaker 3: Oh God, chills. And so we were.
Speaker 2: Debating what we would do, and people were like, I'd
Speaker 2: go outside and go I would never go outside. I
Speaker 2: would like sit leaned against the door with a weapon
Speaker 2: so I can go outside.
Speaker 3: But if someone's here, I don't know. That's what I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 6: Okay, Casey, this is we just had this conversation, and
Speaker 6: I think Tricia came up with the best solution. So
Speaker 6: because the guy outside the door, who's like, I just
Speaker 6: saw a guy run into your house, he seems panicked,
Speaker 6: and he'd like is saying he wants to help her.
Speaker 6: He's like, let me in so I can get or.
Speaker 1: Why doesn't that I just call it? Are we in
Speaker 1: a no cell phone, we're in the country.
Speaker 3: We're in the country. You're out.
Speaker 2: But to me, my thing I have not seen it
Speaker 2: is if you're this remote in the country, who's this
Speaker 2: guy to even be here to see?
Speaker 6: That's why it's like frightening. This is what Tricia said
Speaker 6: she would do. She said she would stay inside the
Speaker 6: house and say, if you really want to help me,
Speaker 6: here are my car keys. Open the trunk, lock yourself
Speaker 6: in the trunk, and leave the keys outside of the trunk.
Speaker 6: Then I will come in the car with you locked
Speaker 6: in the trunk. We'll drive to the police station together
Speaker 6: I'll let you out. WHOA, I thought that was a
Speaker 6: pretty good solution.
Speaker 3: Damn, you married a genius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn, she really fucking thought that through. I have
Speaker 2: to be it's the guy who I can't wait to
Speaker 2: send him a voice note. That's such a good one.
Speaker 2: But we were all like so scared last night.
Speaker 3: It's scary. It's a good movie. It's really good. It's
Speaker 3: is it American? The movie? It's Irish. It's Irish.
Speaker 1: Ooh, I love that auditydy Okay, well wait, speaking of Irish,
Speaker 1: there's an Irish stew on uh below deck that I
Speaker 1: don't watch below Deck, but I did watch the new
Speaker 1: Salt Lake.
Speaker 3: Have you? You probably haven't seen it, right, because I've
Speaker 3: been ring.
Speaker 2: I'm probably two or three behind, honestly on most Bravos stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really crazy to see the two genres mix together
Speaker 2: because the Housewives of Salt Lake go on the boat
Speaker 2: with the hot captain Jason and all the stews, but
Speaker 2: then they're just screaming at each other NonStop, and the
Speaker 2: stews keep being like dinner, the chef wanted to meet you,
Speaker 2: and they will not stop screaming to meet the chef.
Speaker 2: They just keep screaming at each other and nothing's getting anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy, and I think Lisa Barlow has run
Speaker 2: out her value on the show.
Speaker 3: That's my opinion.
Speaker 2: But dude, you know, if you if you can never
Speaker 2: take accountability, that's not interesting to me. If you never
Speaker 2: back down, you're always that you can't apologize, Like, it's
Speaker 2: just not fun to even want.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, and I don't like watching any
Speaker 1: on the Housewives really that thinks they're like too She
Speaker 1: almost thinks she's too good to be on it, Like
Speaker 1: she says shit like you guys are lucky to hang
Speaker 1: out with me, like she truly delusionally thinks she is
Speaker 1: like an A list celebrity, And it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, Benn Walker isn't calling you his best friend? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I hung out with Blake Lively. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: think Blake's telling anyone. She's thank you for a new
Speaker 2: best friend. They do get like celebrities do watch it,
Speaker 2: you know, Like that's what's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like it's hard to watch all they're not like
Speaker 1: we love Lisa the most. It's like even if Rihanna
Speaker 1: is like texting Heather, Heather's not the one that's like
Speaker 1: I'm better than all of you, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, wait, this reminds me.
Speaker 2: So during game show, I'm like trying to win and
Speaker 2: I'm showing the outfit and things aren't.
Speaker 3: It's just not going our way in my mind.
Speaker 2: So then I go, you know, guys, just so you know, backstage,
Speaker 2: she looked at me and said, I'd like to keep
Speaker 2: the song please, like Valentine that and so then Dave
Speaker 2: Masni's boyfriend later goes, I can't believe he said that.
Speaker 3: That was so cool.
Speaker 2: I go, I said that if he didn't know who
Speaker 2: Jay looked like, he didn't say that, he goes. I
Speaker 2: thought that's the reason he should win because he quoted
Speaker 2: this deep cut Valentina quote.
Speaker 7: No I was lying. I lie. Oh my god, Smart
Speaker 7: didn't know Smart you have to get your knowledge on them.
Speaker 7: I know, yeah it was. It's such a good concept,
Speaker 7: it's so fun. I wish their TV show wasn't on Quibi.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say, maybe I can get another go somewhere
Speaker 1: else because it's just so well.
Speaker 3: I think gay is out.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately in this regime, they're like they're not really buying
Speaker 2: gay projects.
Speaker 1: But also like where is anybody? Where is anybody playing?
Speaker 1: Like a fun alternative kind of game show thing like
Speaker 1: no one has had done.
Speaker 2: And it's also England because I was talking to the
Speaker 2: comics and they're like there's a lot less panel and
Speaker 2: chat shows there.
Speaker 3: There's just less production.
Speaker 2: Like when people don't have food, they're not going to
Speaker 2: go to perform. You know, we're going to eventually be
Speaker 2: performing for the rich or not again. I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll keep doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this will be We're not going anywhere you can
Speaker 1: go to that's messed up live dot com to get
Speaker 1: to Lisa's website, to get to our merch. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have new merch coming, but I don't know when
Speaker 1: it's supposed to come out in time to get for Christmas,
Speaker 1: so keep an eye on that. We'll obviously announce it
Speaker 1: on our Instagram as well. And then yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: throw us a rating, tell a friend, I don't know,
Speaker 1: let's get started.
Speaker 3: This is a good episode. Oh and classic.
Speaker 2: I also would like all the listeners to know that
Speaker 2: Radiator season has commenced. Oh yeah, that means starts right
Speaker 2: or yes, yep, you got it. So if you hear
Speaker 2: a banging, no you didn't. No, there we're fighting happening
Speaker 2: at Lisa's apartment. That's always the comment. And I came
Speaker 2: in in a switch and I immediately to put on
Speaker 2: a brawl like it is steamy as fuck. And the bank,
Speaker 2: the banking's actually okay, it'll you know, but yeah, it's started.
Speaker 3: It started to see me New York Weather.
Speaker 2: All right, Hey, so my audio is fucked because I
Speaker 2: had buzzing wires and so we had to use backup audio.
Speaker 2: So if it doesn't sound as perfect as you usually
Speaker 2: hear it, it is fully my fault.
Speaker 1: And it's just gonna sound like I'm normal talking to
Speaker 1: Lisa and she's at the bottom of the ocean.
Speaker 3: No, I think it's gonna be fine.
Speaker 2: The wires buzz I just don't have the space or time,
Speaker 2: but I'm looking at all these stuffed animals and cups like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll fix the buzz. We're gonna fix the buzz.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we'll be saying I moved some things around
Speaker 2: so it won't happen again, I hope.
Speaker 1: And last thing, quick reminder that we do have new
Speaker 1: merch up in the shop. Go to That's Messed Up
Speaker 1: live dot com. Go to our shop link. You got
Speaker 1: to get yourself a Lois Louise Louise shirt asap, a
Speaker 1: perfect Christmas gift for yourself or another TMU fan in
Speaker 1: your life. And so let's get going. Today's episode all right,
Speaker 1: Today the day is here. We are doing Desperate Season four,
Speaker 1: episode eighteen.
Speaker 3: We've been wanting to do this one.
Speaker 2: It is so funny to have this podcast because it's
Speaker 2: like I always want to do these episodes, and we're
Speaker 2: like five years in more and there's still episodes where
Speaker 2: I'm like, how have we not done this? I'm obsessed
Speaker 2: with this episode. I would put it in my top
Speaker 2: twenty five. I think I can't believe we're doing it.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite Tommy in the Tommy universe. It is
Speaker 2: like it's It gives me chills. This whole episode gives
Speaker 2: me chills. I love it, and I cannot wait.
Speaker 3: Do we call our listeners Tommy's Yes, the Tommies wait,
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Hi, Tommy's Yeah, the TMU Tommy's wait, the TMU Tommy's.
Speaker 3: I think that's it.
Speaker 1: That is it, And we can make merch that said hello.
Speaker 1: That's like a name tag that says hello, my name
Speaker 1: is Tommy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh
Speaker 2: my god. I hope you guys like it. Okay, we'll see,
Speaker 2: we'll see if it sticks. Maybe it'll be our Christmas miracle.
Speaker 1: Guys weigh in if you want to be the TMU Tommy's.
Speaker 1: I think this could be it. This could be it,
Speaker 1: This could be it.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: We can our Tommies, I can. I can make little
Speaker 2: grids with all the Tommies I mean. And it'll also
Speaker 2: be in honor of the person who's been tracking it
Speaker 2: for all these years as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god fully, But okay, So we open
Speaker 1: on a very tense scene. An old lady in a
Speaker 1: robe is like knocking frantically on an apartment door, going
Speaker 1: open the door, honey, you can do it, like there's
Speaker 1: a kid in there. As firemen Russian, she tells them
Speaker 1: there's a kid trapped in there, and then they she
Speaker 1: goes Mikey stand back, stand back, and that.
Speaker 3: Like got me confused. I was like, is this the
Speaker 3: episode I was thinking of? But it is. So they
Speaker 3: knock the door down.
Speaker 1: They find food burning on the stove, so it's not
Speaker 1: like it's a raging fire, but you know, and the
Speaker 1: firemen are like, everything's clear, We're good. And then they
Speaker 1: go and they find little Mikey and he's like curled
Speaker 1: up in his pjs, huddling in a corner, and he's
Speaker 1: covered in blood and they're like, the kid is injured.
Speaker 1: And then they find his mom, we think, in bed,
Speaker 1: covered in blood and barely breathing. Aggressive. So then we
Speaker 1: cut to the hospital where a doctor is filling in
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler. She's in critical condition, multiple subdural hematomas.
Speaker 1: She's in surgery, unclear she'll make it. Genital trauma shows
Speaker 1: she was raped and sodomized, no fluids.
Speaker 3: I mean awful. Mikey is okay physically.
Speaker 1: The blood on him was all his moms, but obviously
Speaker 1: i'mtionally he's fucked. Benson is in her bieber Swoop era.
Speaker 1: She goes in to talk to Mikey. He may have
Speaker 1: seen the attacks. She's like, how old are you? He
Speaker 1: holds up six fingers. Did you see your mom get hurt?
Speaker 3: She asks? He nods.
Speaker 1: He touches Olivia's badge, like, but he's not speaking, like
Speaker 1: he's not speaking any words, and then Stabler grabs her,
Speaker 1: and Olivia is like, you know, maybe he'll open up
Speaker 1: more when he sees his mom and can talk to her.
Speaker 3: And Dunet done, the mom just died.
Speaker 1: Credits Early Seasons, they get to the fucking chase. I mean,
Speaker 1: like we're a minute, we're a minute of a cold
Speaker 1: open and we're at the credits. Okay, so now very sad.
Speaker 1: We're at the victims apartment and this kid is cute,
Speaker 1: the little Mikey.
Speaker 3: He's cute.
Speaker 1: At the victim's apartment, they can't find a handbag or
Speaker 1: a wallet, so they think this is like a purp
Speaker 1: who robbed her. But this guy was careful, no prince,
Speaker 1: no seamen hair. It's like, I think their point is
Speaker 1: like if you go into an apartment to rob and
Speaker 1: then you decide to commit a sex crime. You're not
Speaker 1: probably being careful to like clean up your fluids and
Speaker 1: like you no not leave any evidence. You're probably a
Speaker 1: sloppy criminal if you're doing something like that. And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: it's a ground floor apartment with shitty locks. It looked
Speaker 1: like he jacked open one of the windows with a screwdriver.
Speaker 1: And then there's a little dexter type man there who's
Speaker 1: breaking down all the blood spatter.
Speaker 2: He's like, look, this is a tiny detail, but did
Speaker 2: you notice that Stabler's tie was tucked into his button
Speaker 2: down shirt. Wait into the shirt, like in the between
Speaker 2: the third and fourth button from the top, his tie
Speaker 2: is tucked in.
Speaker 1: I think that guys had never that he don't drip
Speaker 1: on anything like I think guys do that if they're
Speaker 1: doing something messy, Like maybe he thought it would like
Speaker 1: since he's looking at the crime scene, like he tucks
Speaker 1: it in.
Speaker 2: I just had never noticed that it looked a little sloppy.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: It's like like, I don't know, I feel like it's
Speaker 1: the way guys. It's the way that guys unbutton their
Speaker 1: jacket when they sit down, but then they button it
Speaker 1: back up when they stand up. That's like a guy
Speaker 1: thing to do, like because you can't sit with your
Speaker 1: button open shut. Yeah, it feels like there's all this
Speaker 1: like weird suit like men's apparel etiquette that.
Speaker 3: I don't really know very much about. But oh my god.
Speaker 2: You know how I was betrayed by my laundry woman
Speaker 2: a few months ago, and she's fragrance when she shouldn't. Yes,
Speaker 2: so my coffee girls like, hey, I'm gonna go get tailored.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the end of the block.
Speaker 2: I go, don't go there. I think you'll get fucked.
Speaker 2: And I go go to this place. I go, this
Speaker 2: guy is legit, don't go to her. And then today
Speaker 2: I went and got coffee and she goes, I should
Speaker 2: have listened to you, and I go, yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: Well she goes, she's really funny that I go, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: she's very funny and personable. She's lost dozens of my socks,
Speaker 2: and I continue to go, so, yeah, she's got a
Speaker 2: flare for sure.
Speaker 3: That kept us going back.
Speaker 1: But oh man, personality is not going to take you
Speaker 1: all the way. I guess when it's your loan dramat
Speaker 1: you gotta have the socks. So you don't have to
Speaker 1: have the socks. You can't just I just don't want
Speaker 1: to be poisoned. And then that's true. The socks you
Speaker 1: didn't even care about. No, just the poisoning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of my best socks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, So little Dexter guy is there and he's breaking
Speaker 1: down the blood spatter. He's like, look, you can tell
Speaker 1: from these patterns that he struck her twice with the
Speaker 1: lamp and then I mean, awful fucking details headed your way,
Speaker 1: a classic get ready to get sad. After the sexual assault,
Speaker 1: he beat her even more, which was like pointless because
Speaker 1: she was already unconscious. So all that information, plus the
Speaker 1: fact that all the blows were like to her face
Speaker 1: stablers like this seems personal. You know. This is like
Speaker 1: where regular cops would come in and be like it's
Speaker 1: a robbery gone bad, or like with an assault, but
Speaker 1: like these guys are the pros and they're like, no,
Speaker 1: this is like a rage attack of somebody who knew her.
Speaker 3: So maybe Mikey slept through the assault.
Speaker 1: Benson offers in a bit of wishful thinking, and then nope, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: more sadness.
Speaker 3: They find a peace stain in the hallway.
Speaker 1: So they can tell that the kid just stood by
Speaker 1: the doorway watching the attack happen and was so terrified
Speaker 1: that he beat himself Back to the neighbor lady who
Speaker 1: love her sounds like she smokes, eats cigarettes for breakfast, lunch,
Speaker 1: and dinner. She is like, I was trying to help Mikey,
Speaker 1: but I didn't hear anything, like the smoke woke me up. Like,
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh, the woman's name was Dana. They
Speaker 1: moved in a month ago. You go ask the landlord.
Speaker 1: I bet his office in Midtown is a lot nicer
Speaker 1: than this dump. So then at the landlord's office, this
Speaker 1: guy shady laylord. He's like, yeah, her name's Dana maguire.
Speaker 1: And then the guy is stonewalling them. They're like, okay, great,
Speaker 1: give us her rental application, credit check, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, I don't have any of that.
Speaker 3: I'm busy, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And then Benson's like, cool, I actually work with somebody
Speaker 1: who gets slumlords, like prosecute some lords and got the
Speaker 1: last one to his punishment was living six months in
Speaker 1: one of his units. And this breaks him. He immediately
Speaker 1: admits this Montal was off the books.
Speaker 2: He's like, it reminds you of the Aaron Brokovitch water
Speaker 2: see now, or she's like, and those that water has
Speaker 2: been brought in special for you from Hinkley.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aaron Brokovich clips have been showing up in my
Speaker 2: feed and I watch There's no way I even watch
Speaker 2: one less than three times in a row. They know,
Speaker 2: it's just nice to see it. And you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course she won that oscar? Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 3: They know what you like, Yeah, yeah, too wrong? What
Speaker 3: is it? Too wrong? That's all you got wrong? Too
Speaker 3: wrong food. Thanks for everything, Julie Numart.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's a line. She goes, we got off
Speaker 2: on the wrong foot, and she goes, that's what all
Speaker 2: you have? Two wrong feet and fucking ugly shoes.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: So the guy's like, oh, I could never I'll tell
Speaker 1: you everything.
Speaker 3: He's like, look, this rot was off the books.
Speaker 1: The mom paid for the woman paid for cash up
Speaker 1: front for three months, and Stabler's like, give it up,
Speaker 1: we need more info, or we'll tell the irs about
Speaker 1: your little cash payment situation. And he's like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: she showed me her id and I did memorize it,
Speaker 1: like he knows exactly this woman what her ID was
Speaker 1: address on her ID and it was the three hundred
Speaker 1: block of Central Park West, and Benson clocks that and
Speaker 1: it's like nice memory, asshole, and he's like, yeah, names
Speaker 1: I don't care about, but I never forget a prime
Speaker 1: piece or real estate. So he clocked it because three
Speaker 1: hundred block of Central Park West is like pretty nice
Speaker 1: at the McGuire I would say almost every block of
Speaker 1: Central Park West is very nice. At the McGuire residence
Speaker 1: on Central Park West, this douchey guy opens the door
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and they're like, we're looking for
Speaker 1: Dana maguire and he's like, yeah, that's my wife.
Speaker 3: And they're like have you seen her? When was the
Speaker 3: last time you saw her? And he's like five minutes ago.
Speaker 1: She's inside feeding the baby, Like fuck off, dude. So
Speaker 1: now we go inside and we see the real Dana
Speaker 1: in a button down in a cardigan, looking like, you know,
Speaker 1: a white woman for Trumps spokesmodel. And she's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, so a dead woman was using my ID.
Speaker 3: That's creepy.
Speaker 1: And she goes, well, I was mugged on my way
Speaker 1: home from mommy and me class and the guys. The
Speaker 1: husband's like in broad daylight on Columbus Avenue, no cops
Speaker 1: in sight, and it's like he's just like throwing a
Speaker 1: dig at the cops, like our cops supposed to be
Speaker 1: on every block of New York City, like I don't know.
Speaker 1: And he's like, they caught the mugger maxing out her
Speaker 1: credit cards at me Sees. So the guy got six
Speaker 1: months at Rikers. They go talk to him at Rikers,
Speaker 1: we got the mugger, and he's like these fucking yuppie
Speaker 1: moms with their strollers and diaper bags and yoga mats,
Speaker 1: easy pickens, and it's like kind of funny.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to get mugged in front of
Speaker 1: their kid, but it's just funny that he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't mug regular people, like I don't go to
Speaker 1: bad neighborhoods.
Speaker 3: I go to good neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: I mugg the rich people who are just walking down
Speaker 1: the street with too much shit in their hands. They
Speaker 1: tell him if he tells them who who he sold
Speaker 1: the ID to, they can talk to the DA and
Speaker 1: he can finish out his sentence in a halfway house.
Speaker 1: So he looks at the picture and he goes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I met her at a diner. She said she couldn't
Speaker 1: work because she had no ID. I felt sorry for her,
Speaker 1: And he's like, her real name is Jill, and so
Speaker 1: she had a son named Tommy, and boom another Tommy.
Speaker 3: Here's where we go.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler tells Benson, Yeah, you know, like you
Speaker 1: change your name if you're on the run from creditors
Speaker 1: or whatever, but to change your kid's name, you're running
Speaker 1: from something bigger. So Benson gets a page on her beeper,
Speaker 1: which I don't really feel like I besides her and
Speaker 1: Cassidy struggling post sex to see who's beeper's beeping in
Speaker 1: season whatever we just did season two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't really see Benson season four still with a beeper.
Speaker 1: I mean, she moves on to like a palm pilot
Speaker 1: pretty soon, I feel like. But anyway, Warner wants to
Speaker 1: see them at the Morgue. So now we're at Melinda's house.
Speaker 1: She confirms the two blows to the head on Jill
Speaker 1: and puts the time of death between nine and eleven
Speaker 1: PM the night before and the fire department didn't get
Speaker 1: called till five am, so more darkness. Tommy was probably
Speaker 1: just in that apartment watching her die for six hours,
Speaker 1: which is so fucking bleak. But Warner also notices that
Speaker 1: Jill had scars on her like abdomen hip area from
Speaker 1: a splenectomy, which is the removal of your spleen, and
Speaker 1: she says she probably had Hodgkins disease as a child,
Speaker 1: which would have been treated with chemo and would have
Speaker 1: left her likely unable to have kids. So I ran
Speaker 1: the DNA and twist. Jill and Tommy are not a match.
Speaker 1: So Jill is not his mom. Wow, done done. So
Speaker 1: now Benson and Stable are with Huang watching Tommy play
Speaker 1: in the playroom for traumatized kids that they have, and
Speaker 1: Huang is pitching, oh, maybe it was an adoption or
Speaker 1: a kidnapping, et cetera. And they're like, none of that
Speaker 1: really makes sense, Like there's no missing persons that matches him, Like,
Speaker 1: we're not, you know. So she he shows them pictures
Speaker 1: that Tommy drew to express his feelings, and you know, surprise, surprise,
Speaker 1: he drew the murder, and then he drew Olivia, someone
Speaker 1: who he cares, who and identified her as someone who
Speaker 1: cares about him.
Speaker 3: So there's a pick.
Speaker 1: Of live, like a drawing of live in a mid
Speaker 1: length orange skirt which she would never wear.
Speaker 3: But you can see he drew the badge.
Speaker 1: So they're holding hands in the drawing, so obviously she
Speaker 1: immediately imprinted on him in the hospital and they are
Speaker 1: best friends.
Speaker 2: This is definitely classic. She has away with victims, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's verres.
Speaker 3: Yeah, drawn to her.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful and she has a maternal vibe, you know,
Speaker 2: like so just related. But when I was in Paris,
Speaker 2: I was walking along you know, the river towards towards
Speaker 2: the Eiffel Tower. Yeah, there were two like red retrievers.
Speaker 2: And only reason I know that this is my friend
Speaker 2: recently got one. It was the best dog I've ever
Speaker 2: met in my life. And one of them ran directly
Speaker 2: to me and just got pet by me and then
Speaker 2: went away when he was done.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think animals know they can trust you, for sure,
Speaker 3: I hope. So, I mean, you're the Olivia Bens and
Speaker 3: of animals. But I eat them.
Speaker 2: That's room what's bad. And I think they know that.
Speaker 2: But I think they The.
Speaker 3: Cow has never run towards you, A pig has never
Speaker 3: run towards you. Me and the.
Speaker 2: Dogs have the same diet. We're all eating animals. Yeah,
Speaker 2: never mind me. They're not judging. You're right, you're right,
Speaker 2: You're right.
Speaker 1: So liv goes to talk to Tommy in the traumatized child's
Speaker 1: room and she calls him Tommy and he's a little
Speaker 1: bit like shook, like how did you know my real name?
Speaker 1: And she tells him she wants to help him, don't
Speaker 1: be afraid, et cetera, et cetera. She asks him like,
Speaker 1: who do do you know your phone number? Who do
Speaker 1: you call when there's a problem, And then he takes
Speaker 1: her little flip phone and dials nine one one and uh.
Speaker 1: When she's like, oh, do you know your home phone number,
Speaker 1: he throws the phone down, and so she asks like,
Speaker 1: do you know any other numbers that you call in
Speaker 1: an emergency? And he types this number in and Live
Speaker 1: walks back into the room with Stable and Wong and
Speaker 1: she's dialing the number and then she hangs up and goes, well,
Speaker 1: it's the domestic violence hotline. So extremely the darkness keeps
Speaker 1: starkening in this episode, like this fucking six year old
Speaker 1: Rosie doesn't know my phone number, Like this six year
Speaker 1: old has memorized the domestic violence hotline number, like so
Speaker 1: so dark. So at the DV hotline offices, I guess
Speaker 1: they're talking to a woman who's like, oh, fuck, Jill Hoffman,
Speaker 1: that bastard finally did it. Like she knows the whole story.
Speaker 1: And this woman is a dick Wolf frequent flyer. Her
Speaker 1: name is Michelle Hurst. Yeah, she's done four apps of SPU,
Speaker 1: four of original recipe, a criminal intent sprinkled in there
Speaker 1: for good measure. She's done episodes we've seen her in.
Speaker 1: So she starts explaining that Jill's husband, Dan Hoffman, was
Speaker 1: a violent son of a bitch. He isolated her, drove
Speaker 1: her friends away. She had nowhere to go. She stayed
Speaker 1: at one of their safe houses once for a few weeks,
Speaker 1: but then she eventually went back to her husband in
Speaker 1: Rye because she couldn't leave her step son behind. She
Speaker 1: loved that kid like he was her own and she
Speaker 1: wanted to take Tommy to the shelter, but they can't
Speaker 1: allow it. Like she's the stepmother, not that kids aren't
Speaker 1: allowed on the shelter, but she's the stepmother. She has
Speaker 1: no legal rights to this kid, like she hasn't adopted
Speaker 1: him or anything like she can't take him from his father.
Speaker 1: So they told her to fight for legal custody, and
Speaker 1: they even found her a pro bono attorney. So now
Speaker 1: we're talking to Jill's lawyer, played by the actor Welker White.
Speaker 1: She is married to another Law and Order guy, Damian Young,
Speaker 1: who plays Hampton Trill in the episode or just Look
Speaker 1: Like One, which we've done at live shows.
Speaker 3: Ins Oh, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm going insane. But I feel
Speaker 1: like we met their daughter at one of our live shows,
Speaker 1: like we met at our Brooklyn show this past summer.
Speaker 1: We met someone who's like both of my parents have
Speaker 1: been on Law and Order, and I feel like these
Speaker 1: are her parents. And she came with someone to the
Speaker 1: show and I was like, oh my god, these I
Speaker 1: can't believe. I can't believe Hampton Trill is your dad
Speaker 1: or whatever. But please confirm if I have dementia, If
Speaker 1: if you're listening or you brought your friend, please let
Speaker 1: me know. I'm almost positive, but it could have been.
Speaker 1: She had two other parents who are doing it.
Speaker 2: And I love this lawyer. I love this scene. I
Speaker 2: think like I am kind of obsessed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a badass lawyer. She's like, listen, I can
Speaker 1: confirm that she's my client, but I can't say anything else.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, well, you know, we're just trying
Speaker 1: to help Tommy, and she's like, well where is Tommy?
Speaker 1: And she's like, are you sending that poor traumatized boy
Speaker 1: back to his father? And they're like, unless you have
Speaker 1: good reasons why we shouldn't, And so she gives a
Speaker 1: little background. She's like, Jill Mary Dan Hoffman two years ago,
Speaker 1: and the abuse started soon after Tommy's mother, Kim, left
Speaker 1: when Tommy was three. So if Tommy six, his mom
Speaker 1: left when he was three, his dad got remarried to
Speaker 1: Kim basically when he was four, and now it's been
Speaker 1: two years, so just for the timeline of the family,
Speaker 1: and he probably beat the shit out of her too.
Speaker 3: The lawyer says.
Speaker 1: Lawyers like Dan terrorized Tommy psychologically but never actually laid
Speaker 1: a hand on him. But Jill knew he would eventually
Speaker 1: turn to Tommy and like hurt Tommy. They filed for
Speaker 1: emergency custody, but she, the lawyer's like, I knew it
Speaker 1: was a long shot, and Benson goes you knew she'd lose.
Speaker 1: You told her to take Tommy, And she goes, I'm
Speaker 1: an officer of the court. If I hadbetted my client
Speaker 1: in the commission of a felony, I'd be disbarred. But
Speaker 1: she says it in such a like flat tone that's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely told her to fucking run. Of course I
Speaker 1: told her to run. I'm a human being, like I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, But yeah, she did that shit. So they're
Speaker 1: talking to the police department now in rough and tumble, Rye,
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 3: Rye, New York is very close to where I grew up.
Speaker 1: It's a very affluent, little like New York suburb, and
Speaker 1: I used to work at a store that had a
Speaker 1: store and Rye that I worked at a couple of times,
Speaker 1: so I've spent a tiny bit of time there. The
Speaker 1: police chief is played by Adam Lefev, who we've talked
Speaker 1: about as well another Dick Wolf universe standby. He's been
Speaker 1: in five episodes of SVU. I think he were in
Speaker 1: Atlanta with Rollins or something like that. But we've got
Speaker 1: him and we've talked about him before. He has such
Speaker 1: a face to me like he's been in a ton
Speaker 1: of stuff, and I think I only recognize him from
Speaker 1: all the svus he's been in. But he's telling Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler, you gotta be confused. Tommy's down in Florida
Speaker 1: with his stepmom, and this guy is president of the
Speaker 1: Dan Hoffman fan Club, nicest guy in the world, successful
Speaker 1: real toor sells houses to people escaping crime in your
Speaker 1: big bad city or whatever. And then he calls his
Speaker 1: first wife, Kim, a tramp who ran away with another man.
Speaker 1: And Dan has done so much to help this community,
Speaker 1: Like there's just she's just like showing newspaper articles like
Speaker 1: Jesse grabs the first newspaper you can see, and Dan
Speaker 1: Hoffman's like on the fucking cover for giving money to something.
Speaker 1: So at the town paper, the woman at the paper
Speaker 1: is like, I've got tons of picks of Dan. He's
Speaker 1: a major player and Rye and it's like small ass
Speaker 1: town like major player and she's got She's like, I've
Speaker 1: got picks of Tommy and Jill. I even have picks
Speaker 1: of Kim, even though she'll never show her face in
Speaker 1: this town again. And now Live goes to talk to
Speaker 1: Tommy like no one is like no one even questions
Speaker 1: where did this woman go?
Speaker 3: Is everything okay with her?
Speaker 1: They're just like dumb slut, She better not show up
Speaker 1: to any benefits around this town. Like but anyway, I
Speaker 1: guess that happens when you have like a charismatic man
Speaker 1: controlling the narrative. So now Live goes to talk to
Speaker 1: Tommy again, and she's made him a book of pictures,
Speaker 1: and he smiles when he sees one of himself playing soccer,
Speaker 1: but then he instantly face drops sadness when he sees
Speaker 1: a picture of him with Jill. And then she shows
Speaker 1: him a picture of his mom, Kim, and he goes,
Speaker 1: who is that? And he finally speaks, He finally talks.
Speaker 1: He goes, that's my mom. He has such a cute
Speaker 1: little voice, the best.
Speaker 3: Tommy, He's the cute way I love me.
Speaker 1: And my dad says, she ran away. He said she
Speaker 1: didn't love us anymore, and then he goes, and then
Speaker 1: Jill came and made me cookies and tucked me in
Speaker 1: every night, and then she went away, but she came
Speaker 1: back for me and they're like, but we ran away,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, from your dad, and he's like yeah.
Speaker 1: He's like, we were gonna get a new house far
Speaker 1: away where my dad could never find us. But of
Speaker 1: course the timing of television is that as Tommy's talking,
Speaker 1: we hear Tommy, Tommy, where's my son? And it's his
Speaker 1: dad and Tommy's so scared. The second he hears his
Speaker 1: dad's voice, he's like locks up, and Dan Hoffman has
Speaker 1: barged into the precinct. He's freaking out, like give me,
Speaker 1: where's my son? Like you're holding him like and this sous.
Speaker 2: Crazy because I only thought about the movie Ransom in
Speaker 2: this moment and then you did.
Speaker 3: It give me back my son.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he is because when that little boy in
Speaker 2: Ransom Peace, when he sees the guy who really took him,
Speaker 2: like haunted me as a child.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like the episode, isn't it the Jackman Herdy episode?
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where my brain went right after and then
Speaker 2: you said it it's like perfect.
Speaker 1: So Dan Hoffman is played by Rob Estes, who I
Speaker 1: obviously clock immediately from Hollow's place, like classic Hattie, Like
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with this man as a youth, Like
Speaker 1: I thought he was so hot on Melrose. I think
Speaker 1: he had a relationship with Jane Josie Bassett who plays
Speaker 1: a woman who drinks while she's pregnant in the in
Speaker 1: one of the episodes of SBU.
Speaker 3: So you know, no one can escape. But he is,
Speaker 3: you know, very handsome.
Speaker 1: He's like a perfect casting for this, like handsome guy
Speaker 1: like you know, good talker and then tell this lunatic crystal.
Speaker 3: Blue like Caribbean water like eyes. But he plays he
Speaker 3: is so hot.
Speaker 2: But he plays this role so well because I am
Speaker 2: terrified immediately. I hate him instantly, and I'm not into
Speaker 2: it at all, Like, yeah, I don't know how everyone
Speaker 2: else has fallen for the act because I certainly am not.
Speaker 3: And you're detective.
Speaker 2: You're a detective head of police at Rye and you
Speaker 2: can't tell this as a freak.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have that job. But cops beat their wives whatever, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, men would only clock this man as aspirational, like
Speaker 1: they would may be like look at this guy, hot wife,
Speaker 1: like big house, successful job, whatever, Like they would not
Speaker 1: be like they're sitting behind those eyes that says that
Speaker 1: he uh likes to control people and beat them.
Speaker 3: But anyway, we're giving away, we're giving away too much.
Speaker 1: As if you don't know where this is going, if
Speaker 1: you don't listen to if you don't even know this episode.
Speaker 1: So Benson tries to tell this lunatic dad like stop it,
Speaker 1: like leave, like Tommy doesn't have to go with him,
Speaker 1: and then Stabler comes in to be like, unfortunately, yes
Speaker 1: he does. Tommy has been medically cleared and released into
Speaker 1: the custody of his father. This is a hole in
Speaker 1: the episode for me, Like, how would that be. Oh well,
Speaker 1: wait till the real crime. Why don't you wait till
Speaker 1: that and then maybe.
Speaker 3: Oh god, then you'll know because like medically cleared.
Speaker 1: Sure, physically, but like emotionally, there's no way we've already
Speaker 1: done a full work up on him.
Speaker 3: There's no way we haven't deterurned.
Speaker 1: Like no one has gone an answer whether that scared
Speaker 1: of his dad, Like no one has gotten like like
Speaker 1: an answer on how much he saw of the crime.
Speaker 1: Like I just don't think there'd be any way that
Speaker 1: they're like, yep, he can go home with his dad now.
Speaker 1: I feel like there would be some kind of foster
Speaker 1: cared temporary housing that would happen. But relative, you could
Speaker 1: have another relative that could take him in.
Speaker 2: But you're also right, he did he himself, which means
Speaker 2: he did see it. Which means they would have asked
Speaker 2: some questions.
Speaker 1: Right, like and yeah, it's a big hole for me
Speaker 1: that like it's like, nope, let's just let him go
Speaker 1: home with a guy who because whenever a woman is killed,
Speaker 1: the husband or the spouse or the partner or whatever
Speaker 1: is unmanac. So it's like, you're not going to just
Speaker 1: let him go home with the guy who maybe did it.
Speaker 2: I so wait for how mad you're going to be
Speaker 2: when I'm.
Speaker 3: I'm pre depressed just thinking about it. Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's very terrifying the scene because this little boy
Speaker 1: is so good. He is like frozen, and the dad
Speaker 1: picks him up and he's just like in his dad's arms,
Speaker 1: but his eyes you can tell he's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like communicating to Olivia basically like help me,
Speaker 1: like and the dad's like, thank god, I found you,
Speaker 1: and like takes him away. And I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: I obviously looked up Tommy to see what he was
Speaker 1: up to, because I think he's such a good little
Speaker 1: child actor. He did quit the business sadly, and he
Speaker 1: is now a professional bodybuilder. Wow owns a gym in Valencia, California.
Speaker 1: So a lot if you want to see this little
Speaker 1: kid swoll as fuck. He's got the exact same fucking
Speaker 1: base just as an adult like jacked jack jacked, like
Speaker 1: at a competition with Teresa Judice.
Speaker 2: You need to do real but you need to send
Speaker 2: me this. But also, if you guys want to see
Speaker 2: us take a trip down there for a personal workout
Speaker 2: with baby Tommy, maybe you guys should start a you know,
Speaker 2: a little.
Speaker 3: Know, let's do a little campaign.
Speaker 2: Let's do a campaign and then I make exactly right
Speaker 2: pay for it.
Speaker 3: But I think we need to go to Valencia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he just like teaches us how to lift.
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of love it. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get into that.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So so his name is Max Weinstein, and I'm sad
Speaker 1: he left acting because oh my god, little Tommy what
Speaker 1: a cutie.
Speaker 3: But and like, oh my god, he was just so cute.
Speaker 1: But top of BAC three and Cabot's telling them, Okay, listen,
Speaker 1: Dan Hoffman's lawyer is threatening to sue you guys for
Speaker 1: withholding the information about Tommy's whereabouts and causing undue stress,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like stress, my ass, he didn't even follow
Speaker 1: a missing person's report and Benson's like, we delayed notification
Speaker 1: by a couple of hours, Like it was not like
Speaker 1: we had him for days, you know, And Alex is like,
Speaker 1: that's not the point. You were playing that fast and
Speaker 1: loose and you got busted. And it's like Alex, and
Speaker 1: he wasn't even that fast. Yeah, you pay play fast
Speaker 1: and loose all the time. And also why is like
Speaker 1: I don't understand, Like I feel like you get taken
Speaker 1: away from your parent if you're a suspect in a murder,
Speaker 1: you just do like there's and there's no like until
Speaker 1: you've confirmed his alibi. He's a suspect in the murder,
Speaker 1: Like so this doesn't make sense to me. But anyway,
Speaker 1: now the boy is in a custody of a killer,
Speaker 1: they're saying, and Cabot's like a lleged killer. And then
Speaker 1: she's got you guys really have nothing like it could
Speaker 1: have been a burglary and lives like he was about
Speaker 1: to tell me everything when the dad barged in.
Speaker 3: We've got to reinterview him.
Speaker 1: And Hoffman's attorney is going to fight it, and Craigan's like, well,
Speaker 1: then court order it. He's a material witness to a
Speaker 1: murder and Cabot's like, I'll try, but some hard evidence
Speaker 1: on the murder would be super. So they go speak
Speaker 1: to Hoffman and they're kissing his ass like apologies, like
Speaker 1: for the misunderstanding about Tommy and we're so sorry about
Speaker 1: your wife and blah blah blah, and they're asking about
Speaker 1: Tommy and Hoffman's like, yeah, I a psychologist told me
Speaker 1: that Tommy will make a full recovery. And it's like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: he pissed himself watching his stepmom get raped and murdered
Speaker 1: and then sat there watching her die for six hours,
Speaker 1: like he's gonna be fine. What therapist would ever just be? Like,
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now he's gonna make a
Speaker 1: full recovery. Like you've barely spoken to him, and you're like,
Speaker 1: he's all good still. Stabler's like that's great news, great, great,
Speaker 1: and then they're you know, they're playing their little games
Speaker 1: with him. Benson asked to talk to Tommy again, and
Speaker 1: he's like no, like like I'm not gonna let that
Speaker 1: you guys like traumatize him again. And so obviously after
Speaker 1: that they dropped the nice cop act and they're like,
Speaker 1: you didn't even report your son missing. You told everyone
Speaker 1: she was in Florida, and he's like, I lied to
Speaker 1: protect Jill so everyone wouldn't find out how emotionally unstable
Speaker 1: she was. But you let your son go off with
Speaker 1: an emotionally unstable woman.
Speaker 3: For a month, Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was afraid of going to the cops that
Speaker 1: that would set her off, and she's always come back before,
Speaker 1: and so he waited. That's his excuse that he was
Speaker 1: just waiting for her to come back. So they asked
Speaker 1: for his alibi for the murder, and he goes, well,
Speaker 1: I was in the city at a realtor's association dinner
Speaker 1: with five hundred colleagues, and they can all confirm each
Speaker 1: every single one of them saw me and fed me
Speaker 1: a shrimp with their own fork, and they can confirm
Speaker 1: that I was there. So they go to speak to
Speaker 1: a realtor who allegedly sat next to him at the dinner,
Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, he was bored, so he went
Speaker 1: to the bar. He promised me a dance, but he
Speaker 1: never made it back to the table. I thought he
Speaker 1: stood me up, but he came back, and I was
Speaker 1: jealous because his clothes were all sweaty and messed up,
Speaker 1: and I wish he'd gotten sweaty and disheveled with her
Speaker 1: like that's basically her vibe. It's like he looked like
Speaker 1: shit and I knew he fucked somebody in like a closet,
Speaker 1: and I wish it was me. So it was around
Speaker 1: eleven when he came back, and she remembered because that's
Speaker 1: when she calls the babysitter. So a single mom, I guess,
Speaker 1: trying to fuck at a real estate dinner, go queen.
Speaker 1: So Benson realizes that, oh, he absolutely had time to
Speaker 1: sneak out and do this murder. But what about the blood,
Speaker 1: Like he would have been covered in blood, like from
Speaker 1: the blood spatter, like this was a very violent crime.
Speaker 1: And Stabler goes, coveralls worked good enough for OJ. So
Speaker 1: we just explained that away, that this man brought coveralls
Speaker 1: with him to his real estate dinner, he put them on,
Speaker 1: he murdered, he got rid of the coveralls because he's
Speaker 1: not wearing he's not bloody when he gets back to
Speaker 1: the dinner. So this is a week alibi. Maybe Cabot
Speaker 1: can use it, they think. So now we're in judges
Speaker 1: chambers and it's Cabot with Judge Alan Riddner and He's
Speaker 1: played by Harvey Atkin, and we've seen him a lot
Speaker 1: of times. He's been in eighteen episodes of SVU, A
Speaker 1: lot of good ones that we've covered. He's got kind
Speaker 1: of like a mustache and like around the head hair,
Speaker 1: like bozo hair or whatever.
Speaker 2: I would call him no nonsense.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's very no nonsense, like he annoyed. He and
Speaker 1: Petrowski probably like get a drink and talk shit about
Speaker 1: Cabot all the time, like she's always trying to bend it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So also in the room I completely forgot until this
Speaker 1: rewatch is Sandra Bernhard Icon playing Dan Hoffman's lawyer and
Speaker 1: the judging.
Speaker 3: I love her. I love her, obsessed with her. How
Speaker 3: do they not have her back?
Speaker 1: She's like perfect in this role, like a ruthless defense
Speaker 1: attorney is perfect.
Speaker 3: She Yeah, I really liked her in this part. She's great.
Speaker 1: The judge is saying that the child is too traumatized
Speaker 1: and won't be interviewed until after he's undergone a psych evaluation,
Speaker 1: and Cabot offers Swung. They have Objeck to Huang because
Speaker 1: he works for the cops, as if Huang doesn't do
Speaker 1: thousands of child evaluations like every year that get entered
Speaker 1: into court.
Speaker 3: But whatever.
Speaker 1: Hoffman's like, I've already hired another psychiatrist to evaluate Tommy,
Speaker 1: Like why does he have to have two? And the
Speaker 1: judge like buys it, and Cabot's like, okay, well, can
Speaker 1: we at least put Tommy in foster care until after
Speaker 1: the evaluation. He's an eyewitness to a murder that his
Speaker 1: father may have committed, and sam dra Bernhard aka Priscilla
Speaker 1: Cheney says they have no evidence of that, and Cabot
Speaker 1: points out that his alibi is shaky and there's a
Speaker 1: history of domestic violence. Cheney argues that Jill was unstable
Speaker 1: and flew off the handle because Hoffman wanted a divorce
Speaker 1: and took the boy as an act of retaliation. The
Speaker 1: judge says the child will remain in the father's custody
Speaker 1: with like no reasoning, Like there's definitely reasonable doubt here.
Speaker 1: You're just like taking Sandra Bernhardt's word that this guy's good,
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Him not Like reporting his son missing is like really
Speaker 2: substantial evidence to me. Yeah, Like that is a clue
Speaker 2: And I don't know why that's being ignored by the courts,
Speaker 2: where it's like.
Speaker 3: He's acting like he cares, but he didn't care for
Speaker 3: over a month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like we find out later, like it's
Speaker 1: very easy to confirm some of the DV claims people
Speaker 1: neighbors know, you know what I mean. Like, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm just kind of like it's a loose
Speaker 1: police work episode, but I think it also goes to
Speaker 1: the premise that handsome, successful white men can convince people
Speaker 1: to do a lot of things there, that they are
Speaker 1: different people than who they say they are, and you know,
Speaker 1: like they get what they want a lot of the time.
Speaker 1: So we definitely talked about that. We've seen that before.
Speaker 1: So I'm sad that he's making Tommy stay with the dad.
Speaker 1: Cheney goes to Cabot, Dan is a kind gentleman and
Speaker 1: capable of violence, How can I convince you? And Cabbit
Speaker 1: goes let the police interview him. So now we're in
Speaker 1: wood room blinds, it's the cops and Cheney and Hoffman,
Speaker 1: and Stabler goes, uh, what about this forty five minute
Speaker 1: gap in your alibi? Like, and he goes, it was
Speaker 1: a boring rubber chicken dinner, so I ran to a
Speaker 1: bar for a drink, and he goes, they go, well,
Speaker 1: the bar, get.
Speaker 2: Drunk there, Like I don't understand, like if you're to
Speaker 2: get drunk, Like that's the thing they keep saying as
Speaker 2: an answer for everything, but all his answers are terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like none of them are good or work.
Speaker 1: So right, was it a dry real estate association dinner
Speaker 1: because otherwise these yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Or the hoteler, they're like, where this conference is at?
Speaker 2: Probably at a bar, Like it just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: You'd run out to a random bar. I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go to a bar after you don't go
Speaker 1: to a bar in the middle of it, like when
Speaker 1: there's an open bar at your fingertips.
Speaker 3: I mean yes, anyway, So.
Speaker 1: He's like, they're like, oh, really you were at the bar.
Speaker 1: The bartender doesn't remember you. And he's like the police
Speaker 1: was past, and he's like he has an excuse for everything.
Speaker 3: But like you said, they're not really good.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, you were a five minute cab
Speaker 1: ride from Jill's like where she got murdered. So if
Speaker 1: and he goes, if I had known where she was,
Speaker 1: I would have gone and convinced them to come back home.
Speaker 1: And they're like, I thought you wanted a divorce, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I wanted my son back, and they're like,
Speaker 1: you got an answer for everything. I'm not buying this
Speaker 1: loving father act. Tommy is terrified of you, and he's like,
Speaker 1: Tommy is everything to me. I would die for him.
Speaker 1: And they're like, he almost died for you. You killed
Speaker 1: Jill and left him alone in that apartment, and if
Speaker 1: firefighters hadn't responded so fast, you'd be burying him along
Speaker 1: with Jill. And seriously, like why did he leave the
Speaker 1: son behind? Like why would you leave your son behind?
Speaker 3: After that?
Speaker 2: Do you think that his son that he knew his
Speaker 2: son saw it? Or do you think he his son
Speaker 2: was sleeping. He doesn't know that Tommy saw, does he.
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: But I feel like you would grab your son so
Speaker 3: that none.
Speaker 2: Else would be no, because then it would be obvious
Speaker 2: that it was him.
Speaker 3: And then he kidnapped his then he took his on
Speaker 3: because but he.
Speaker 2: Knew that everyone he told him they were in Florida. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he couldn't have done. He had to leave him. You
Speaker 2: should have turned the stove off, but that would have
Speaker 2: been a clue to.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like who turned the stove on? Was
Speaker 3: it no?
Speaker 2: I bet his mom was cooking and then he burst
Speaker 2: in murdered her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thinking that, Oh, I thought he did it in
Speaker 1: this in sleep because it was like nine to eleve.
Speaker 3: It happened at like ten o'clock at night or like remember.
Speaker 3: But but my.
Speaker 2: Thing, well, we find this out later. But she she
Speaker 2: has a night job. Yeah, she could have been like
Speaker 2: cooking dinner.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know me because I don't think Tommy would
Speaker 2: have tried to cook.
Speaker 3: No, you're right.
Speaker 1: He I thought like I thought, oh, grab her, grab him,
Speaker 1: and when she gets found be like, yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: know where she was.
Speaker 3: She ran off.
Speaker 1: But there's too many witnesses that would have said, like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he's been living at this apartment with her, and he was.
Speaker 3: He had to go back to this party for his alibi.
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true. You're right. Could he could not
Speaker 3: have grabbed him, so he just left him there too?
Speaker 3: Fixed out you're a DV.
Speaker 2: If you're a domestic abuser, you don't care about it,
Speaker 2: like you're a bad person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he sees people as his property, so I
Speaker 1: want to write it and take his property back with him.
Speaker 3: But you're right, like that would have not.
Speaker 2: That would have absolutely that would have serviced him and
Speaker 2: then him get him first.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yep, yep, yeah, he would have gotten busted.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think that threw all the way. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Benson is like getting to him. She's like in
Speaker 1: his face, like I'm not buying your loving dad act,
Speaker 1: like I see right fucking through you. And he looks
Speaker 1: at her and goes, you wouldn't be talking to me
Speaker 1: like that if you didn't have a badge and a gun.
Speaker 1: And that's where you get a little crack, you get
Speaker 1: a little track. Yeah, because I would say so far,
Speaker 1: this actor like really plays it like he doesn't give
Speaker 1: any little bit of psycho away like some of the
Speaker 1: other guys will, like there'll be a look or like
Speaker 1: some kind of comment or whatever where they'll you'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: there he is, and like until now this is like
Speaker 1: what we see, you know, like this is the Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wonder how much my opinion is because I've seen
Speaker 2: this episode no less than thirty five times. Oh, but
Speaker 2: he's chilling every time. To me, I'm scared of him instantly.
Speaker 2: But this, to me, it's like a clue and it's
Speaker 2: like why because you beat the shit out of women obviously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he wouldn't have said that to Stabler.
Speaker 1: Stabler was in his face giving him shit, you know,
Speaker 1: like he yea yeah, this man.
Speaker 3: Sin is shin chang. She more has satisfaction that she
Speaker 3: made him cry, loves getting underneath these guy's skin. She can't.
Speaker 3: You have a fucking gun and I'll kill you. Get
Speaker 3: away from me.
Speaker 1: So outside in the hallway, Benson is pointing out to Stabler,
Speaker 1: notice how this guy never says Jill or Tommy, although
Speaker 1: he did say Tommy quite a few times, but he
Speaker 1: always says my wife, my son. He thinks of them
Speaker 1: as possessions, not people, which we said it's very two
Speaker 1: seconds ago. Yes, yes, so true family annihilator. Anyway, Munch
Speaker 1: has some info and he's like, listen, Jill, open your account.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine you're the type of person in where
Speaker 2: we're like, oh, yeah, the guy who would family annihilate,
Speaker 2: Like you have to rethink your life.
Speaker 3: You have to be just a little yeah, where we.
Speaker 2: Would not be surprised if you truly murdered a whole
Speaker 2: family Like Eu, You're.
Speaker 3: Like that sucks, Yeah, someone thought that of me. That
Speaker 3: would be chilling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Idan, We're like, she seems like someone who would
Speaker 2: slash and murder her whole family.
Speaker 3: I'd be like, geez, I must.
Speaker 1: Suck, like yeah, oh my god. But he has no
Speaker 1: self awareness. He can't look any word like that anyway.
Speaker 1: So Munch is like, listen, I got some info. Jill
Speaker 1: opened a bank account as Dana Maguire and deposited some
Speaker 1: paychecks from JAG Enterprises. And it turns out she was
Speaker 1: working as an entertainer at Benny's topless on twelve. So
Speaker 1: at Bennie's, there's we're talking to a dancer. She's like, listen,
Speaker 1: Jill was sweet, but she was a shitty dancer.
Speaker 3: Listen. She looked like Susie Homemaker.
Speaker 1: So all these commuters that were on their way back
Speaker 1: to the burbs, she gave them boners. You know, they
Speaker 1: love it, they felt. They said it was like having
Speaker 1: June Cleaver give him a lap dance. So not sure
Speaker 1: why she quit, but she freaked out a week ago
Speaker 1: when she saw a guy in the crowd that she
Speaker 1: knew from the town she used to live in. And
Speaker 1: then a couple of days later she was gone. So
Speaker 1: she goes it was a week ago Tuesday. I remember
Speaker 1: because that was the night I introduced the cockatoo into
Speaker 1: my act.
Speaker 3: So funny.
Speaker 1: So where the fuck are the writers coming up with this?
Speaker 1: Did somebody just like have a cockatoo and they're like,
Speaker 1: let's give the cockatoo to the dancer.
Speaker 2: Like or they went to a strip club that weekend
Speaker 2: for someone's bachelor party and saw cockatoon and saw it.
Speaker 3: Got it. Yeah, It's like.
Speaker 1: To have animals on set is hard. You have to
Speaker 1: have a wrangler, Like, it is hard to have an
Speaker 1: animal on set. So it's like just to have this
Speaker 1: cockatoo line. They've got a wrangler on set that day,
Speaker 1: Like it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: I love the way they spend money, God bless them.
Speaker 2: The cockatoo line really made me laugh in this like
Speaker 2: really sad episode.
Speaker 1: So Stabler like when they go, she goes, I remember
Speaker 1: what night it was because that was the night I
Speaker 1: introduced the cockatoo into my act. Stabler makes a face like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: cockatoo fair enough. It's such a funny face like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I guess if you have a cockatoo
Speaker 1: in your act. And then the dancer as they're leaving goes, hey,
Speaker 1: guys want you nail the prick, like they like, you know,
Speaker 1: she's like probably no stranger to men being shitty. This woman,
Speaker 1: it feels like, so she's like, get whoever fucking killed
Speaker 1: the sport innocent woman? So they find out and meanwhile,
Speaker 1: notice that like nobody at her work is like she's
Speaker 1: emotionally unstable and crazy and anything like that.
Speaker 3: You know, like, yeah, they would know.
Speaker 1: So they find out who the guy is that she saw,
Speaker 1: and it's somebody named but like they go through credit
Speaker 1: card receipts at the place or whatever, and they find
Speaker 1: out that this guy's name is Mike Rizzo, and he
Speaker 1: spends a lot of time at Benny's topless, and he's
Speaker 1: begging them please don't tell my wife.
Speaker 3: She thinks I work a lot of overtime, fucking loser.
Speaker 1: And then he says, yeah, I saw this stripper who
Speaker 1: looked like a dead ringer for Dan's wife, So I
Speaker 1: called him on my way home.
Speaker 3: I thought he'd get a kick out of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I swear you put her in an apron
Speaker 1: baking cookies and half the town would swear it was Jill.
Speaker 1: So now they're filling in Cabot.
Speaker 2: The man are so clueless. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now they're filling in cab You know this
Speaker 1: guy well enough to call him on your way home
Speaker 1: and tell him I think I saw a stripper that
Speaker 1: looks like you're wife, But you don't know that his
Speaker 1: wife's in Florida with the kid for a month, Like
Speaker 1: I don't whatever. So now they're filling in Cabot. They're like, listen,
Speaker 1: he could have gone to the club, followed her home.
Speaker 1: His alibi is a massive hole in it. No one
Speaker 1: remembers seeing him at the dinner dance. They keep calling
Speaker 1: it for a full forty five minutes and Gabbat. Gabbott
Speaker 1: says it's enough for an arrest, but they may not
Speaker 1: make it past the grand jury. This guy has everyone
Speaker 1: fooled with his father of the Year act. He's handsome, charismatic,
Speaker 1: he's a grieving widow now, and Cabot goes, I can
Speaker 1: do a silent indictment without arresting him. I feel like
Speaker 1: we've seen one of these before, but this is like
Speaker 1: kind of the first time.
Speaker 3: I'm getting it.
Speaker 1: Basically, you can present the facts to the grand jury
Speaker 1: as part of an investigation, in which case you're not
Speaker 1: obligated to notify Hoffmann, and then he can't testify on
Speaker 1: his own behalf. So she's like, I'll do it in
Speaker 1: the morning and then you can pick him up. It's
Speaker 1: a little it sounds like it's a little bit like
Speaker 1: it is legal, but it's like a little bit of
Speaker 1: a shady move or something like a loop holy type
Speaker 1: of thing. So they pull up to his like mansion
Speaker 1: and Rye and Olivia starts talking to Tommy, who's playing soccer.
Speaker 1: Hoffman comes out and is like, I'm gonna file a
Speaker 1: straight restraining order against you and sue you for harassment,
Speaker 1: and then they arrest Hoffman while Benson comforts Tommy.
Speaker 3: So now top of the final act.
Speaker 1: In court, Hoffman pleads not guilty and Cabot requests hermand
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, Sandra Bernard is like, the client is
Speaker 1: a community leader with no record and a sole caretaker
Speaker 1: of his son, and Cabbot goes, well, he wouldn't be
Speaker 1: a single parent if he didn't kill his wife.
Speaker 3: And judge, which I love that.
Speaker 1: I love a little fucking shady dig and control yourself,
Speaker 1: miss Cabot, and then he sets fail at one hundred
Speaker 1: k okay, So one hundred thousand, which the guy will
Speaker 1: get in has in his pocket probably. Cheney requests a
Speaker 1: speedy trial and throws shade at Cabot for doing her
Speaker 1: little grand jury maneuver, this little silent like silent jury thing.
Speaker 1: So she starts explaining herself, and the judge is like, Babe,
Speaker 1: I know the law, and I also know your reputation
Speaker 1: for doing whatever the fuck you want, so and then
Speaker 1: Cabot tells the judge, you said the child's mental health
Speaker 1: was hanging in the balance. We didn't want to traumatize
Speaker 1: him more by having his dad arrested prematurely. And then
Speaker 1: Cheney emotions to exclude anyone who Jill Hoffman told about
Speaker 1: the abuse, and Cabot is arguing that when she spoke
Speaker 1: to a DV center staff, she was distraught and it
Speaker 1: would have counted as an emotional utterance. But Cheney argues,
Speaker 1: it violates this fucking asshole's right to confront and cross
Speaker 1: examine his accuser and it's prejudicial. And the judge, who
Speaker 1: clearly hates Cabot and like loves domestic violence, grants the
Speaker 1: motion like he's just like, it's so insane that you're
Speaker 1: not you can murder someone, so that you can't use
Speaker 1: anything that they say have told anybody, because then you
Speaker 1: don't have a right to confront your accuser because you're
Speaker 1: accuser is dead because you've killed them. Like what the
Speaker 1: fuck is that law? So anyway, at the precinct, Cabot
Speaker 1: is like, Okay, well we're fucked.
Speaker 3: We have nothing.
Speaker 1: Cabot's like, they're just going to argue she was killed
Speaker 1: in a burglary home invasion. She was living in a
Speaker 1: bad neighborhood. She was working as a stripper, and I
Speaker 1: do kind of wonder who was watching Tommy during the shifts,
Speaker 1: Maybe that old lady neighbor. Anyway, Olivia says, Tommy's testimony
Speaker 1: will put him away. I know I can get him
Speaker 1: to tell me what happened. And they're like, well, Tommy's
Speaker 1: been in foster care. Let's send Olivia to talk to him.
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, the judge made an order that
Speaker 1: no one can talk to Tommy. And even if Tommy
Speaker 1: says his dad killed Jill, the statement's going to get
Speaker 1: thrown out because of the judge's order. I don't get
Speaker 1: where is the where is the PsychEval from this guy's psychiatrist?
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's probably going to be filled
Speaker 1: with lies anyway, but why hasn't it happened yet? Like, also,
Speaker 1: I don't think the court would allow somebody's privately hired
Speaker 1: psychiatrists to be the one doing the evaluation.
Speaker 3: No, I feel like it has to be wong.
Speaker 2: But I think this is what it's like when you're
Speaker 2: an abuse fixed like I think they are.
Speaker 3: You know, that's kind of the point of the show too. Yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: So they could subpoena Tommy, but it's a big gamble
Speaker 1: to put a traumatized child on the stand with like
Speaker 1: no prep and this, and also his dad might have
Speaker 1: coached him to say a stranger did it, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll fucking kill you if you say that I did it,
Speaker 1: you know. So what about Kim Hoffman, Tommy's mom, She
Speaker 1: has rights to talk to him, And Stabler said, well,
Speaker 1: she either fell into a black hole or he murdered
Speaker 1: her ass too. So she's got no activity on her
Speaker 1: Social Security, no tax returns, no sign of life since
Speaker 1: she disappeared two years ago or three years ago. Sorry,
Speaker 1: So they go to speak to a neighbor and he
Speaker 1: remembers Kim. He's like yeah, we would say hi here
Speaker 1: and there. But I'm not surprised that you can't find
Speaker 1: out much about her. Her husband had her terrified to
Speaker 1: talk to anyone. I'd wave to her, she'd check over
Speaker 1: her shoulder to see if he was looking before she
Speaker 1: would wave back. She always had bruises, a broken arm.
Speaker 1: He said she ran off with another man. The neighbor's like,
Speaker 1: I don't buy that shit for a second. I think
Speaker 1: Kaufman killed her, especially after I saw that black van
Speaker 1: and he said it pulled into the driveway late one night,
Speaker 1: a shadowy figure filled it with garbage bags and then
Speaker 1: drove away, and the next day Kim was gone. He goes,
Speaker 1: I called the cops and I gave them the license plate.
Speaker 1: So now we're back with the Dan Hoffman fan club president,
Speaker 1: the fucking chief of police, and he's like, Dan Hoffman
Speaker 1: is not a killer. But he pulls the file nevertheless,
Speaker 1: and he's like, we might not be the almighty NYPD, but.
Speaker 2: Were so muchtitude, dog, come on, you shut.
Speaker 5: The fuck upp.
Speaker 1: So then he goes the plates came back to someone
Speaker 1: named Don Trent. She was a soccer mom from Portchester
Speaker 1: who was there delivering girl scout cookies and they're like,
Speaker 1: can we have the file? And he's like the cases closed,
Speaker 1: have at it. So Benson's like, all right, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: stall Cabot while Sabler tracks down Dawn Trent. We're talking
Speaker 1: to Dawn don Dawn and she is played by Haveland Morris,
Speaker 1: and I was racking my brain trying to figure out
Speaker 1: where I recognize her from. And she is Brooke from
Speaker 1: that season one episode of Sex and the City.
Speaker 3: She's the redhead who's like.
Speaker 1: Getting married and it's like such a big deal about
Speaker 1: like gifts and right right, it's a turtle episode, I think.
Speaker 1: And I just remember her so clearly from that episode.
Speaker 1: I look, she's got a long resume. This actress have
Speaker 1: Alane Morris, but I just didn't recognize many things except this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's an Yeah.
Speaker 2: She like tells her like make sure you end up
Speaker 2: with someone that loves you more than they love them,
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 3: Like haunts carry or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're totally right. Damn. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also loved that old man neighbor and no one
Speaker 2: listened to it. And that's the thing the cops had
Speaker 2: with bias. They didn't even do a proper investigation because
Speaker 2: they already yeah, like assume.
Speaker 1: And imagine you're just like you're you're a neighbor and
Speaker 1: you're just still living next to a guy that you
Speaker 1: think murdered his wife, Like and he's just walking in
Speaker 1: and out of the house ever with a new wife,
Speaker 1: and like we're not checking in with the new wife,
Speaker 1: like what's going, Like I don't know, but.
Speaker 3: Dawn.
Speaker 1: They're talking to Dawn and she's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: Dan Hoffman, and then Stabler jumps immediately to accusing her
Speaker 1: of accessory to murder, like immediately, and she's like what,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know this man. And then they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: what about Kim Hoffman And she lies and goes, I
Speaker 1: don't know Kim Hoffman. But this is an obvious Mariah
Speaker 1: Carey style lie. She's like I don't know her. It's
Speaker 1: like you do know her, and Stabler's like, babe, cough
Speaker 1: it up, like we know you were there the night
Speaker 1: she disappeared, like we know something's up. And so she
Speaker 1: finally spills, She's like, I don't know Dan, but I
Speaker 1: do know Kim and I was there the night that
Speaker 1: night helping her leave, and Stabler's confused He's like, wait,
Speaker 1: Kim's alive, and Don's like, yeah, same old story. Your
Speaker 1: husband is the nicest guy in town, everyone's pal, especially
Speaker 1: the cops. Every night he comes home, he beats you,
Speaker 1: degrades you, terrorizes you. And who's gonna believe that the
Speaker 1: man of the year is a batterer. There's nowhere to go,
Speaker 1: and there's nowhere to hide in a small town, and
Speaker 1: you know, you start, you get a like the only
Speaker 1: option you have is to get far away and start over.
Speaker 1: That takes money and help. And she's like, it's not
Speaker 1: just me, it's a group of us. And Stable goes
Speaker 1: like some kind of domestic violence underground railroad and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I guess. So she's like I was Kim's first
Speaker 1: stop and then I passed her on to someone else
Speaker 1: and they're like, what about the kid? And Don's like, listen,
Speaker 1: Kim was gonna die, Like we had to move her.
Speaker 1: She was coming. She was hoping to come back for Tommy.
Speaker 1: But Don's like, I don't know where she is. I
Speaker 1: only know the next link in the chain, and that's
Speaker 1: all any of us really know. So we cut to
Speaker 1: Stabler going through the links right The next lady picked
Speaker 1: her up and drove her to Poughkeepsie. Then she was
Speaker 1: living on a farm New Paulitz, Brewster, And the last
Speaker 1: woman they talked to says, we got her settled in
Speaker 1: Torrington and she got working at a dry cleaner's as
Speaker 1: far as I know, she's still there. I do want
Speaker 1: to point out that Torrington, Connecticut to Ride New York
Speaker 1: is eighty miles. Okay, it's a ninety minute drive, Max.
Speaker 1: You need to go there to get away from this
Speaker 1: man I feel, but she's close by anyway. Stabler shows
Speaker 1: up at the dry cleaner in Torrington and finds Kim
Speaker 1: working there, and he calls her Kim, and she's like,
Speaker 1: you have me mistaken for someone else. I mean, like
Speaker 1: this is like sleeping with the enemy. This is like
Speaker 1: so many movie enough, like all these movies we've seen
Speaker 1: where it's like, Nope.
Speaker 3: That's not me.
Speaker 1: And he tells her listen, it's about Tommy. And then
Speaker 1: they have a chat in the back room of the
Speaker 1: dry cleaner and she's like, I cry for Tommy every night.
Speaker 3: She's like nobody knew.
Speaker 1: He says, like, I know why you left, and she's
Speaker 1: like yeah, but nobody knew how bad it was. He
Speaker 1: used to beat me so badly I couldn't walk. And
Speaker 1: then he's like, but you didn't you want to go
Speaker 1: back for Tommy, and she goes I did. After I
Speaker 1: got settled, I went back to Ryde to get him,
Speaker 1: and I saw him playing on the front in the
Speaker 1: front yard with this woman and he called her mommy,
Speaker 1: and he looked so happy. I thought he's better off
Speaker 1: and he had everything I couldn't give him. But it's like, girl,
Speaker 1: you had to know that he was beating the shit
Speaker 1: out of that lady too. But I guess maybe you
Speaker 1: think it was just me. Maybe that's like a victim
Speaker 1: like psychology that your batterer gets into you that like
Speaker 1: you're the worst woman and I only would beat you
Speaker 1: or I've never beaten anyone else. But she's like, they're like,
Speaker 1: we need you now. You need to come see Tommy,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't face him. He won't understand
Speaker 1: what if he doesn't love me anymore? And he's like, listen,
Speaker 1: you got to help Tommy or he goes back to
Speaker 1: that house and you have to risk your pain to
Speaker 1: save his life.
Speaker 3: So now he cut to the trial.
Speaker 1: Hoffman's on the stand talking about how he and Jill
Speaker 1: met because they worked together. She was so kind to
Speaker 1: him after Kim left and after the wedding. After they
Speaker 1: got married, he saw that Jill had a terrible temper.
Speaker 1: One night, she didn't praise he didn't praise her cooking
Speaker 1: well enough, and she smashed a meat loaf all over
Speaker 1: the walls. Tommy was terrified. It's like, okay, confirm with Tommy.
Speaker 1: This sounds like bullshit. He realized that she was emotionally
Speaker 1: unstable and she refused to get help, and he thought
Speaker 1: with love and support, things would change, but they got worse.
Speaker 1: He was worried about Tommy that she would eventually hurt him,
Speaker 1: and so he told her he wanted a divorce. The
Speaker 1: next day, she was gone. He was relieved until Tommy
Speaker 1: didn't come home from school and he realized she had
Speaker 1: taken him.
Speaker 3: So now it's Cabot's turn.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, okay, so you're the victim and
Speaker 1: he's like yeah. She's like, well, if you love your
Speaker 1: son so much, why no missing person's report? And you know,
Speaker 1: we go through the same shit. He said before, I
Speaker 1: was afraid to talk to the cops. Jill might do
Speaker 1: something crazy. So he's like, so you didn't go look,
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I did, and and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: when your friend told you that her doppelganger was shaking
Speaker 1: her ass down at Benny's topless, did you go check
Speaker 1: it out? And he's like, oh, I just thought that
Speaker 1: couldn't be true. Jill was shy. She wouldn't even fuck
Speaker 1: with the lights on. And it's like, so it's a
Speaker 1: coincidence that you heard about this strip or twin of
Speaker 1: your wife and then days later she was found brutally murdered.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I wish I would have found her
Speaker 1: so that Tommy would have been safe with me and
Speaker 1: not watching her get murdered by some maniac.
Speaker 3: And Stabler he knows it. Huh, Yeah, now he knows. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Stabler is outside court maybe and maybe he's setting
Speaker 1: that up that the jury would think like this guy
Speaker 1: would never let his kids sit there and watch a
Speaker 1: murder happen, but he did. So Stabler's outside court with Kim.
Speaker 1: She looks nervous as hell, but then she sees Tommy
Speaker 1: walking over with Olivia and it's this is like the
Speaker 1: sweetest exchange, Like she like goes over to him, kneels
Speaker 1: sound and goes, do you know who I am? And
Speaker 1: she's like, you're my real mom and he's like, I
Speaker 1: have your picture. You miss my birthday and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I saw your soccer playoffs last year
Speaker 1: when you scored that big goal. And he's like lights up.
Speaker 1: He's like, you saw that, why didn't you come see me?
Speaker 1: And she goes, I was scared and he immediately goes
Speaker 1: of dad like, you know not he knows and this kid,
Speaker 1: I wrote, Jesus, has this kid had a psyche val
Speaker 1: yet or what?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: What is happening? Like where's the evol like?
Speaker 1: And then she goes, yeah, he scares me a lot,
Speaker 1: and Tommy whispers me too. It's so heartbreaking, and she goes,
Speaker 1: I'll never go away again, and he's like, do you promise,
Speaker 1: and she's like yes, and she's crying and they're hugging. Next,
Speaker 1: Cabot calls Tommy to the stand and he walks into
Speaker 1: the courtroom holding his mom's hand. Dan looks shook when
Speaker 1: he sees his you know, his tramp wife who ran
Speaker 1: off with another man. And so Dan is like glaring
Speaker 1: at Tommy while he's on the stand Cabot asks Tommy
Speaker 1: a few questions, and he is so scared of his daddy,
Speaker 1: won't take eyes. I like it when the lawyer stands
Speaker 1: in between yea to kind of block the view because
Speaker 1: he's only eyes on his dad. He's terrified, and then
Speaker 1: the like you won't speak, and the judge goes, this
Speaker 1: child is in no state to testify, and Cabot goes,
Speaker 1: all right and he can go and holds his hand
Speaker 1: and walks him towards the gallery and the dad leans
Speaker 1: over and it's almost like it's almost like the episode
Speaker 1: wouldn't have ended this way if the dad had just
Speaker 1: fucking not done this. But he leans over and goes,
Speaker 1: I love you son with all the warmth of a blizzard.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really not since here at all. And
Speaker 1: Tommy nervously looks to his mom and it's like seeing
Speaker 1: his mom gives him like the strength, and he looks
Speaker 1: back to his dad and said says, you killed Jill,
Speaker 1: just like straight up, and she.
Speaker 3: You know you got it.
Speaker 1: It's like a cute little boy, Yeah, you killed Jill,
Speaker 1: and but he says it like it's not mumbling. He
Speaker 1: says it right like, and then Cheney's like for a mistrial,
Speaker 1: like immediately physics, Yeah, and the judge calls for order,
Speaker 1: but again, what did the psychevol where is it? The
Speaker 1: judge calls for order, Cabot asked Tommy, are you okay?
Speaker 1: And he goes, I'm ready, I can do it now,
Speaker 1: and he's so brave.
Speaker 3: So I think he's.
Speaker 1: Gonna get back on the stand and he's gonna fucking
Speaker 1: say what he just said. So now Dan Hoffman looks
Speaker 1: furious as Tommy gets back on the stand, and that's
Speaker 1: dick wolf baby. And I did notice as the credits
Speaker 1: were rolling that there's a woman in the episode named
Speaker 1: Woman Number one and her name is Kate Middleton, So
Speaker 1: I don't know what maybe both first Ladies of England
Speaker 1: have been on USA networks.
Speaker 2: I also I like the person playing the mom and
Speaker 2: I feel like I know her.
Speaker 1: I know, and I looked her up and her name
Speaker 1: is like Signey something, but she's not in anything anyone.
Speaker 1: They're Sydney Coleman, she h Like I thought I recognized
Speaker 1: her from stuff too. I guess she was in a
Speaker 1: couple ups of the X Files. She was on The
Speaker 1: Young and the Restless for like twelve years or ten
Speaker 1: years or something.
Speaker 2: Well, it's Sydney Coleman and it's an American theoretical physicist.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this woman's Signey and she stopped acting in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, so maybe.
Speaker 2: It's not an accident that I'm on this Sie physicists page.
Speaker 3: Waits, maybe it's meant to be. Damn, she looks hot. Okay,
Speaker 3: see aged amazing? Who the actress or the hot physicist?
Speaker 3: Oh okay, physicist is not sexy. I just think he
Speaker 3: died into the seven. He's a man.
Speaker 2: Signy or Google photos sexual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was great.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm really interested to hear the cases, just because.
Speaker 3: I know I'm going to be sad.
Speaker 2: But well, and I wonder because we got okay, so
Speaker 2: basically on the wiki, it's not based on a crime
Speaker 2: we couldn't figure out, so we kind of made it work,
Speaker 2: and that doesn't happen often.
Speaker 1: I would say, Well, we got in touch with Neil Baert,
Speaker 1: our guy, Yeah, and he said that it wasn't really
Speaker 1: based on anything specific. He said that he had read
Speaker 1: about this domestic violence underground railroad. But whenever I was
Speaker 1: trying to look it up, I found a website that
Speaker 1: I'm going to use I'm going to share for what
Speaker 1: would sister peg do. But like I didn't find specific
Speaker 1: cases that was just like an organization, like a TV organization,
Speaker 1: They're not going to like funnel you from place to
Speaker 1: place a hidie. So I was and then I feel
Speaker 1: like we broke we broke open the case.
Speaker 3: So we found stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so with some research and then I kind of
Speaker 2: like was looking up things that would fit this and
Speaker 2: then wildly it all really works together and I'm glad
Speaker 2: we get to kind of dive into it.
Speaker 3: And one is in New York, so you know, we
Speaker 3: can be more connected.
Speaker 2: Even so, this is the case of Charlie Nicholson, and
Speaker 2: the court case was like Nicholson versus Williams, and it's
Speaker 2: basically defending parental rights of mothers who are domestic violence victims.
Speaker 2: And this went down around nineteen ninety nine. So Nicholson
Speaker 2: was a single mother of two young children, Kendall Cole's
Speaker 2: and Destiny. And so like Destiny is a baby, Kendall,
Speaker 2: her son is six years old, and she was in
Speaker 2: the relationship with the youngest daughter's father, Claude Barnett, but
Speaker 2: he lived in South Carolina and he would go to
Speaker 2: Brooklyn monthly to see his child, and then on January
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, nineteen ninety nine, he decided to beat the
Speaker 2: shit out of her, and he kicked her, punched her,
Speaker 2: and threw stuff at her, and her head was bleeding.
Speaker 2: So she called nine to one to one and she
Speaker 2: made arrangements for a neighbor to take her children while
Speaker 2: she was in the hospital, and then once she found
Speaker 2: out she had to be there overnight, she gave officers
Speaker 2: the name of relatives who could care for the children
Speaker 2: and her absence. And she said she was quoted like
Speaker 2: in the Times, that she slept peacefully at King's County Hospital,
Speaker 2: knowing the neighbors and her cousin.
Speaker 3: Had her kids.
Speaker 2: So and then the next day instead, the Administration of
Speaker 2: Child Children's Services ACS, a worker, instead took custody of
Speaker 2: her children. They decided that the kids were an imminent
Speaker 2: risk if they stayed with her, because she couldn't protect
Speaker 2: herself or them while he was beating her. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: did you arrest him?
Speaker 3: But okay. The ACS also.
Speaker 2: Filed charges of neglect against her for engaging in acts
Speaker 2: of domestic violence in the presence of their child. They
Speaker 2: also cited that she didn't show up to court once
Speaker 2: like back in the day, and it was the day
Speaker 2: of a severe snowstorm. So it's like they just I
Speaker 2: have no I mean, I can't even Nicholson says, I
Speaker 2: didn't know I'd end up down that road and that
Speaker 2: calling for help would escalate and I'd end up losing
Speaker 2: my kids. So now another kind of fear tactic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so women don't reach out because this is going on,
Speaker 2: this could happen. It's it reminds me of like always
Speaker 2: and but it reminds me of like the case of
Speaker 2: the massage the Margaret Show episode we did, and how
Speaker 2: like they pretend to care but punish the victims constantly
Speaker 2: when they're women and the men get to just kind
Speaker 2: of skirt on, but like you're tougher on this woman
Speaker 2: who got the ship beat out of her than the
Speaker 2: person that did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so fucked.
Speaker 2: So February fourth, ninety nine, family court ordered that her
Speaker 2: kids be returned to her, but she was kept on
Speaker 2: state records as a neglectful parent, and so Nicholson and
Speaker 2: a bunch of others filed a class action suit against
Speaker 2: the ACS that it deprived them of their fourteenth Amendment,
Speaker 2: you know for due process, which I guess is a
Speaker 2: thing of the past, now, okay, So two thousand and four,
Speaker 2: So May third, two thousand and four. The NYCLU, so
Speaker 2: I just the New York a CILIU chapter joined them,
Speaker 2: and basically they showed that they had a gender bias
Speaker 2: that blames abused mothers and that this harms children, and
Speaker 2: that the acs failed to exercise a minimum degree of
Speaker 2: care like I can't. So October twenty six, two thousand
Speaker 2: and four, the New York Court of Appeals unanimously held
Speaker 2: that a mother's inability to protect a child from witnessing
Speaker 2: abuse does not constitute a neglect and therefore cannot be
Speaker 2: the sole basis for removal. Only in the rarest instance
Speaker 2: do you remove a child, and you have to think
Speaker 2: about the psychological.
Speaker 3: Harm on the children.
Speaker 2: So New York did agreed to pay more than six
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars to settle with three of the families
Speaker 2: in the lawsuit. And that was in two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: and there was fifteen families total in the class action.
Speaker 3: And then a woman from.
Speaker 2: Queen's and her four kids got three hundred grand Nicholson
Speaker 2: and another mar there Shirlene Tillet got one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty grand each, and the settlement also had like that
Speaker 2: the city had to pay the plaintif Sleegal fees and
Speaker 2: the Charlene Tillet case is fucking insane. So she was
Speaker 2: twenty nine and pregnant. Her baby's father and former boyfriend
Speaker 2: came over one night and pummeled her. That's not my words,
Speaker 2: that's the paper, that's like the New York Times, and
Speaker 2: not the first time, but it was the last. And
Speaker 2: she was like, that's it. I'm gonna have my baby
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna move to California. So she got like
Speaker 2: everything together to move to California. So she gave birth
Speaker 2: to a healthy baby boy in New York and New
Speaker 2: York at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center. And usually after you
Speaker 2: give birth, like social workers and people always ask about
Speaker 2: DV it's part of the questionnaire, it's the thing, and
Speaker 2: so she asked, she answered candidly. Then the baby's father
Speaker 2: was the one that picked up from the hospital and
Speaker 2: she goes obviously a grave mistake. So then the social
Speaker 2: worker filed a complaint to the state Register on Child
Speaker 2: Abuse and Neglect and the next day child Welfare came
Speaker 2: with officers and carried away her two day old son.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm gonna be sick, charged her.
Speaker 2: With child neglect and it took seven weeks to get
Speaker 2: her baby back.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And at the time of this article in two thousand,
Speaker 2: she was living in a homeless shelter because but like
Speaker 2: she and then she got in trouble for not having
Speaker 2: a crib. She goes, I am moving to California, Like
Speaker 2: I am moving. She had a plane take like, she
Speaker 2: had everything set to go to California two day old.
Speaker 2: They thought that would be the best thing for a baby,
Speaker 2: not arresting a man that hit her.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's fucking awful.
Speaker 2: Like iast all the time because I'm like, we wouldn't
Speaker 2: know about this. I didn't even know things like this
Speaker 2: could happen. It happens right here in our state. And
Speaker 2: it's like, fuck, I can't even fucking fathom taking any
Speaker 2: day all the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they look for excuses like I'm sure even
Speaker 1: like like they can come in and be quote unquote
Speaker 1: investigating the DV claim and then be like, oh, you
Speaker 1: don't have a crib. It's like okay, Well, then there
Speaker 1: are agencies that can get her a crib, Like, it's
Speaker 1: not that's not worthy of taking away a baby for
Speaker 1: seven weeks a new fucking baby.
Speaker 3: No, And there's supposed to be a best set, like
Speaker 3: you don't even.
Speaker 1: Need a fucking gab at that don't No, you don't
Speaker 1: even need a crib And it's just no. Unfortunately, with ACS,
Speaker 1: like with any kind of like child and Family services,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of personal bias that people will go
Speaker 1: into homes, and like I had to learn about this
Speaker 1: when I was a casa where they would like give us.
Speaker 1: They would say, like, you walk into a home, you
Speaker 1: see X, y Z, what are your immediate thoughts And
Speaker 1: you have to like check your own bias because just
Speaker 1: because that's not like what your house would look like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it's an unsafe house for a child.
Speaker 1: Like they would say stuff like no rugs on the
Speaker 1: floor or like a vase within reach of the kids
Speaker 1: or something like that. It's like, that's not reason to
Speaker 1: be And these are just off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: There would be other ones, you know, like that's not
Speaker 1: reason to be removed.
Speaker 3: You know, we have, but there's a lot of biases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I think about the cases in New
Speaker 2: York where children died because of necklaces with this department.
Speaker 2: So it's like, how are you evil and bad on
Speaker 2: both sides of the spectrum where you're letting children be
Speaker 2: in a dog cage starved over months where you should
Speaker 2: have been there, and then in there you're also dame
Speaker 2: place you're also taking away two year old children from
Speaker 2: a domestic violence victim. Like I don't understand. I know, like,
Speaker 2: how are you bad on both spectrum? Ends is confusing
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: So Judge Clark v.
Speaker 2: Richardson of the Bronx Family Court said the obvious, it's
Speaker 2: difficult because you're victimizing these people twice and the children.
Speaker 3: Everyone.
Speaker 2: The New York Times did a big piece on this
Speaker 2: and they talked to this judge a lot, so it's like,
Speaker 2: we get it. If there's DV in the home and
Speaker 2: the chances of child abuse does go up, and they wrote,
Speaker 2: you know, unrelated, but especially if there's an unrelated a
Speaker 2: non relative male in the home, immediately abuse goes up.
Speaker 2: That's why I don't trust step dads. Unfortunately, that's my bias.
Speaker 2: That's my bias. I'm like, are you a pedi? While
Speaker 2: if you're a stepdad.
Speaker 3: Immediately go are you a pedophile or not?
Speaker 2: And I start analyzing you, and it's because of Rosie
Speaker 2: Prez's episode, and it is what it is.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm sorry, the Will are Net. No, those are
Speaker 3: separate now, isn't.
Speaker 1: HER's the Will Arnett or No? No, no, you're right,
Speaker 1: different on different one. He is, Yeah, they're both Nambler related.
Speaker 3: But I get my Nambla episodes mixed up. I'm sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Just talking to someone who's a fan of s you,
Speaker 2: but casually, like obviously, but they were talking about how
Speaker 2: all the athletes never look that good. It's like always
Speaker 2: ill fitting oversizes to He's like, the athletes never look
Speaker 2: that sharp.
Speaker 3: And I was looking through and I go, you're right.
Speaker 2: But anyways, this is not about fashion. Okay, we're here.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, unrelated males, not even related to this case.
Speaker 2: So like, obviously DV does increase the chance of child abuse,
Speaker 2: and that seeing abuse does affect children, or even seeing
Speaker 2: like fighting within the home. And this all stemmed from
Speaker 2: thing that I think was trying to be helpful. In
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, the state court ruled it declared incidents
Speaker 2: of DV in the presence of a child to be
Speaker 2: sufficient grounds of charge of neglect. But to me, it's like,
Speaker 2: why don't you help the women leave and arrest the men,
Speaker 2: Like why with all these rules to take kids away
Speaker 2: but not punish these motherfuckers. It is so crazy. Richardson's like, sure,
Speaker 2: it's failure. Richardson's like, damn sure, it's failure to protect children.
Speaker 2: But the victim has done nothing wrong or negligent and
Speaker 2: probably just lack the financial and emotional resources to leave
Speaker 2: an abusive partner.
Speaker 3: And like, do you.
Speaker 1: Think this is an incentive? Like do you think if
Speaker 1: you say, hey, ladies, like you're gonna lose your kids
Speaker 1: if you let your husband beat you, so you better
Speaker 1: get out of there.
Speaker 3: Like that's not how it works, Like I know.
Speaker 2: But that's what we're we've were learning, especially now with
Speaker 2: this presidency is the and we know this, but the
Speaker 2: human traffickers, the pedophiles, and the abusers are in charge
Speaker 2: of all of it. They want to punish women, they
Speaker 2: want to punish brown people. We are seeing all this
Speaker 2: this is season four, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So he says, these cases are a daunting exercise and
Speaker 2: balancing interests and so that's to the Times. And so
Speaker 2: they did this pilot program where they placed all these
Speaker 2: cases under one judge so that this judge, Richardson, could
Speaker 2: help have uniformity on how these decisions would be made.
Speaker 2: So he saw forty or so of these cases, and
Speaker 2: the majority of them he sent the children back home.
Speaker 2: And it's a judgment call on the case workers, like
Speaker 2: they should be only making the decision if the evidence
Speaker 2: really shows the child is in imminent danger. And that's
Speaker 2: a paraphrase of Nicholas Scapetta, and he's the Commissioner of
Speaker 2: the Administration.
Speaker 3: Of Children's Services. But I just can't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's also bad so and that's to the Times. But
Speaker 2: they get it wrong, and that's basically why the class
Speaker 2: actions do happen. They get it wrong so much. And
Speaker 2: it also, like we keep saying, it keeps victims of
Speaker 2: DV from taking action because of the threat of their
Speaker 2: children being taken away. And yes, it is hard for
Speaker 2: children to watch abuse, but it's also hard when they're
Speaker 2: suddenly taken from their parents' care, like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And again, none of their solutions make it easier to
Speaker 2: prosecute domestic violence people or trust women or put away abusers,
Speaker 2: but cops feed their wives, so it doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know what to.
Speaker 2: Say, Like, I don't know why all of the effort
Speaker 2: is it to be harsher on.
Speaker 3: I'm a criminal?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about a three strikes you're out fucking rule
Speaker 1: for DV you know, like why are we not doing that?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Do that for when we do that for like turnstile jumping,
Speaker 1: don't wait like or they're like their husband.
Speaker 2: But it's also we blame the victim. It's always why
Speaker 2: didn't she leave or why didn't she do that? Or
Speaker 2: well she didn't want to press charges, and then they're
Speaker 2: like mad at those people.
Speaker 3: It's also very strange. It's so strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody has any empathy or compassion or can put
Speaker 1: theirselves in anyone else's fucking shoes for two seconds and
Speaker 1: consider what it might be like for them. Not nobody,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people, and most people that you
Speaker 1: know all the like, there's these fucking people right now
Speaker 1: with what's happening with the with snap and everything, and
Speaker 1: people are just like get a jaw. It's like you
Speaker 1: have no idea what's going on in people's lives. It's
Speaker 1: fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: Like some people don't have legs. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't have they can't have people and the control.
Speaker 1: Over rural you live in some rural ass town in Kentucky.
Speaker 1: Like I heard of some town in Kentucky that's like
Speaker 1: a ninety eight percent of them are on snap. There's nothing,
Speaker 1: there's no work there, Like you know, you don't what
Speaker 1: job do you want everyone to go get?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, And then it's even more sick where it's
Speaker 2: like they shouldn't get to shop, they should get a
Speaker 2: box of food and eat rice and me and what
Speaker 2: we give you and and it's like.
Speaker 1: You are sick, you are sick. It's such a small
Speaker 1: amount of money. It's such a small amount of money
Speaker 1: out of taxpayers pockets. It's such a small amount of
Speaker 1: money that we give people, and they ca.
Speaker 2: The fucking puritanical nature of the early settlers.
Speaker 3: Oh God, Okay.
Speaker 2: So Fay did pass away in August of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: So rest in peace.
Speaker 3: So she was.
Speaker 2: A Georgia woman who ran an underground network out of
Speaker 2: her Atlanta home to help high children who had been abused.
Speaker 2: Somethink hero, something kidnapper and vigilante the network did not
Speaker 2: take children without a guardian's involvement. And that's what she
Speaker 2: said to the Detroit Free Press in twenty eleven. So
Speaker 2: it's not like so it's not kidnapped, there's a parent. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, this is a very debated woman, I will say.
Speaker 2: So these plans took months, and the kids would get
Speaker 2: new names forged id papers, all of this. And the
Speaker 2: reason she got into this was she was married to
Speaker 2: a man that the courts did not believe abused their daughter.
Speaker 3: And then years later he.
Speaker 2: Was on the FBI most Wanted list as a sexual
Speaker 2: predator and he ended up getting a multiple guilty verdicts
Speaker 2: for being a pedophile, and the courts just didn't listen
Speaker 2: even though her four year old had gone a rhea.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this man was considered the first pedophile
Speaker 2: to be added to the top ten most wanted list.
Speaker 2: He is dead now And if the authorities listened to her,
Speaker 2: maybe multiple children could have.
Speaker 3: Not been molested. So thank you so much, Jesus.
Speaker 2: And then her daughter was sent to a mental hospital
Speaker 2: and she could not get her daughter back, no amount
Speaker 2: of appeals. And then she like married this Atlanta doctor
Speaker 2: Howard Yaeger and that's what like sparks her right.
Speaker 3: She was feeling ignored.
Speaker 2: By the authorities, and that led her to be an
Speaker 2: advocate for abused children who are being ignored. So began
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven My Year of Birth and Jaeger
Speaker 2: read about a Mississippi case involving a woman, Karen Newsom,
Speaker 2: who lost custody of her two kids after she accused
Speaker 2: her husband of sexually abusing them, and Yager started getting
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 3: Of media attention.
Speaker 2: In the late eighties, she did Heraldo Sally Jesse, Raphael Oprah.
Speaker 2: She was doing the circuit, the Circuit Honey, and it
Speaker 2: was called the Children of the Underground Network. And the
Speaker 2: network was made of people from domestic miland shelters, women's groups,
Speaker 2: former nuns. And this is from an A like A
Speaker 2: and E from any report on this from Newsweek article
Speaker 2: from twenty sixteen. The problem with the network is they
Speaker 2: are defying the courts, so that is a thing. They're
Speaker 2: usually helping non custodial parents, which are mostly mothers. And
Speaker 2: we've talked about PERI, We've talked about the biases in
Speaker 2: courts and parent alienation syndrome and all of that, and
Speaker 2: how abusers get custody of children, even when mothers plead
Speaker 2: and then thirty Yeah it sucks. So so it's you know,
Speaker 2: they're working with non custodial parents. And she claimed to
Speaker 2: have helped over like a thousand children over the years.
Speaker 2: It was a network about two hundred women. A lot
Speaker 2: of them were abused as children or you know, they
Speaker 2: had abused children, and they shelter the victims in their
Speaker 2: homes as they post for as relatives for several weeks,
Speaker 2: and then they continue hostly, we're moving from shelters, and
Speaker 2: then they would limit the stays at each place for
Speaker 2: two to three days because local police officials like would
Speaker 2: regularly go to the shelters to look for missing people,
Speaker 2: which I didn't know, but I guess yeh, like, if
Speaker 2: someone's in the shelter, they're hiding, so why are you
Speaker 2: in there looking, especially when they have such high rates
Speaker 2: of DV in the police departments.
Speaker 3: But also.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't love it, but they had
Speaker 2: a plan. So and they would give people the new
Speaker 2: birth certificate and driver's licenses, which again illegal. They stole
Speaker 2: names from birth certificates of dead people. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, greyhounds train stations, wigs, pillows, and
Speaker 2: but on nineteen ninety two, she was put on trial,
Speaker 2: you know, like she has a kidnapper, but she's helping
Speaker 2: where the justice system fails. So her defense lawyer is like, hey,
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for her, like, what would have happened
Speaker 2: to all these kids. His name is Robert Ferrier, her attorney,
Speaker 2: and like he brought up you know, she's a mother
Speaker 2: of an abused child, and the courts returned the child
Speaker 2: to her abuser, Like I yeah, I've really it sickens me.
Speaker 2: He maintained that she was being tried for being a
Speaker 2: thorn in the side of local officials. I'm sure she
Speaker 2: was annoying to be around, you know, and it is
Speaker 2: confirmed later she had a tough personality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's okay.
Speaker 2: So she was charged with cruelty to children, kidnapping, an
Speaker 2: interference with custody, and the charges stem from a case
Speaker 2: with two Florida children who were brought to her in
Speaker 2: April of nineteen ninety by their mother, saying she was
Speaker 2: fleeing an abusive husband. But there are tapes of Yaeger
Speaker 2: like yelling at the kids and pushing them to remember
Speaker 2: more about the abuse and the boy is like begging
Speaker 2: for his mom and doesn't like the interrogation. So that
Speaker 2: was like a, you know, not good evidence towards her,
Speaker 2: but since a parent knew it was happening, you couldn't
Speaker 2: say it was like kidnap.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: The possible sentence for this was sixty years. But she
Speaker 2: was acquitted May of nineteen ninety two. The jury deliberated
Speaker 2: for less than three hours after a four week trial
Speaker 2: that included fifty five witnesses, So kind of a I
Speaker 2: mean I liked that she was acquitted, Oh the buck
Speaker 2: and so, but like tons of millionaires ended up mad
Speaker 2: at her too, like this ended up being her demise
Speaker 2: kind of but she's back and strong, but I mean dead,
Speaker 2: But we'll get to it. So there was a guy Bippin'
Speaker 2: show and he ended up being on the cover of
Speaker 2: Time magazine in May nineteen ninety eight, offering a two
Speaker 2: million dollar reward for the return of his two young children,
Speaker 2: and he did end up finding them at his wife's
Speaker 2: home in Switzerland and brought them back to the US,
Speaker 2: but he did a one hundred million dollar lawsuit against
Speaker 2: her in nineteen ninety nine, so.
Speaker 3: Tough tough time.
Speaker 1: Oh, because she helped get them to Switzerland, got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And another group I found in my research for the
Speaker 2: New York Times article in nineteen eighty eight talked about
Speaker 2: another group, the Mother's Against Raping Children a really direct name.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Lydia Rayner and Yager would offer shelter to
Speaker 2: women and children and she routed them through private homes
Speaker 2: in several states in Canada. And she said she gets
Speaker 2: at least two calls a day from desperate women needing help.
Speaker 2: And Yeager was a member of this group and worked
Speaker 2: with them, and they did less illegal stuff though they
Speaker 2: mostly helped with money, makeup, hair styles like changing the
Speaker 2: appearance of people, which is a temporary solution, but they
Speaker 2: worked inside the laws more so Yager helped found it.
Speaker 3: But with these two women.
Speaker 2: Sarah King and this woman her last name is Gooch,
Speaker 2: and I don't really know how to be calmer about it.
Speaker 2: And then I also wrote that her name is denied,
Speaker 2: but it must be Denise, Yeah, it must be. It
Speaker 2: can't be denied Gooch. I think it's Denise Gooch. And
Speaker 2: Sarah Kanks she yet sorry. They asked her to leave
Speaker 2: the group. They said she was just too much. She
Speaker 2: was exaggerating numbers, and they didn't want to focus on
Speaker 2: the underground railroad but wanted to focus on her to
Speaker 2: make the system better. They said she had a rough personality,
Speaker 2: they liked her message, by a woman who worked with
Speaker 2: her said the personality hurt their message, so she had
Speaker 2: to go. And the woman Amy Nustein, who said that
Speaker 2: as a sociologist, and she wrote a book from Madness
Speaker 2: to Mutiny While Mothers are running from the family Courts
Speaker 2: and what can be Done with it?
Speaker 3: Long title.
Speaker 2: She added that Fay wanted to publicize how desperate people
Speaker 2: were and how the system is failing, like they had
Speaker 2: no choice but to run. So she was also trying
Speaker 2: to make people aware like the system sucks, but we
Speaker 2: can work within it and help you. And that's according
Speaker 2: to Newsweek. She also made clear to Newsweek that yeah,
Speaker 2: you're only took cases that involved documented abuse, so abusive.
Speaker 3: Documented, no hearsay.
Speaker 2: The DA from Cobb County that's her in the early
Speaker 2: nineties said someone with good intentions who nevertheless had become obsessed.
Speaker 2: And that's LA's time was via AATV and then the
Speaker 2: Mark Group, you know, others against raping children helped.
Speaker 3: Women who led law abiding.
Speaker 2: Lives kind of like live as fugitives honestly, Like they
Speaker 2: had to help women mask their identities only use cash.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing when they're like why don't you leave?
Speaker 3: Why don't you leave?
Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, what does what do these women's
Speaker 2: lives look like outside of it? And then one of
Speaker 2: the solutions is like they should have their own money
Speaker 2: and jobs.
Speaker 3: And it's like the.
Speaker 2: People that are pretending to care about women, it's like
Speaker 2: they want them in the home and dependent on men
Speaker 2: so they can't escape. Yeah, and yet why didn't you leave?
Speaker 2: Why didn't you leave? And it's like, well now she
Speaker 2: can only use cash. She can't use his IDs, no
Speaker 2: credit card, no nothing, like you're true.
Speaker 1: And then not everybody has like their parents to fall
Speaker 1: back on, or a wealthy aunt or like whatever, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like some of these people have
Speaker 1: no family, nowhere to go.
Speaker 3: And that's my.
Speaker 2: Design too, because usually as of people isolate you, so
Speaker 2: it's really fucked up. And then oftentimes the kids don't
Speaker 2: go to school or the doctor dentist or get proper
Speaker 2: nututrician or anything like that because they're on the run.
Speaker 2: So you know, critics say that makes things worse, but
Speaker 2: I don't know what's worse than you know, being like
Speaker 2: raped by your father. So some lawyers are like, well,
Speaker 2: if you go underground and may underscore a husband's charge
Speaker 2: that a mother is vindictive, and then it diminishes her
Speaker 2: chances of winning custody. But the only reason she's running
Speaker 2: is because you've already fucked her up. Like, why does
Speaker 2: an abuse and rape seem more vindictive than trying to
Speaker 2: go undercover and deny parental rights to an abuser. It's
Speaker 2: fucking crazy. And you know, obviously they're like, but going
Speaker 2: underground fucks them up. It's like they're being abused. And
Speaker 2: then one child psychologist at Harvard, doctor Carolyn Neuberger, said
Speaker 2: sexual abuse erodes a child's sense of identity and control.
Speaker 2: Whisking a child into the underground only further traumatizes the child.
Speaker 2: And that's to the times. And then also just a
Speaker 2: fact is like only one to six percent of child
Speaker 2: abuse claims are fabricated, and that's from a cheat sheet
Speaker 2: from the Center of the Center for Judicial Excellence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry, Like I get it's traumatizing to move
Speaker 1: from place to place and maybe like have a little
Speaker 1: some food insecurity, But I agree, it's better than being
Speaker 1: routinely assaulted by your own parent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Nick Nick National Center for Missing and Exploited
Speaker 2: Children are like, listen, you can't break the lawn, kidnap
Speaker 2: and interfere with the process, no matter your good intentions.
Speaker 3: But in twenty sixteen, Newsweek reported that she still was.
Speaker 2: Running a fourteen room bed and breakfast with her husband
Speaker 2: in North Carolina, and she was tracked down thereafter not
Speaker 2: being in the spotlight by the Minnesota Star Tribune. Casey,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're familiar with them, and so
Speaker 2: at sixty and she was at six, she was sixty
Speaker 2: eight years old, and she's talking to news Week in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, she goes, oh, I retired from the public eye,
Speaker 2: but I've never given up, and my network's as busy
Speaker 2: as ever. And I just, yeah, attention and media is
Speaker 2: what cost me a lot, But I would never like
Speaker 2: give up my ability to help children and the way
Speaker 2: I want to help them.
Speaker 3: So go fuck yourselves.
Speaker 2: And she said she's helped over seven thousand people, but
Speaker 2: it has been just quiet and working. And twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: the FX network created a five episode TV mini series
Speaker 2: about fay Acre called Children of the Underground.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two. I feel like I know everything
Speaker 1: that comes out on e F Facts.
Speaker 3: We should watch that, I know. I like it's a creoticy.
Speaker 1: I mean it is true though, like if something like
Speaker 1: this is going to exist, like you can't get pressed,
Speaker 1: like you can't, you know, like you can't. It has
Speaker 1: to be like a whisper network, like people just passing
Speaker 1: your name from place to place and like never anyone
Speaker 1: knowing like who's in charge. But I'm glad she was
Speaker 1: still at it until she died last year. Hopefully she
Speaker 1: passed it on to somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Fuck, that's so crazy, it's really.
Speaker 1: Anyway, thank you for that that dark dark uh.
Speaker 2: And is watching the episode and you're like all these
Speaker 2: like holes and it's like, no, it's.
Speaker 3: Honestly like it could have been worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like so final crazy, Oh bias.
Speaker 3: Well, we have a great guest, so don't anybody go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is nineties television Royalty, A huge part
Speaker 1: of my youth. He portrayed Christopher Lorenzo in the show's
Speaker 1: Silk Stockings, then later was Kyle McBride on melrose Place,
Speaker 1: but you know him today as the psycho with a smile.
Speaker 1: Dan Hoffman, please enjoy our combo with the lovely Rob Estes. Hi, Rob,
Speaker 1: how are you good?
Speaker 3: It's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: We've still been waiting for this moment for a long time,
Speaker 2: waiting all my life.
Speaker 1: We're I mean, you don't understand. I was a huge Like,
Speaker 1: I was such a melrose Place person, Like, oh, right off.
Speaker 1: When I saw you in this as View episode Younger,
Speaker 1: I was like, not Kyle, although, wait, isn't it just
Speaker 1: to really quickly go to melrose before we get into SVU,
Speaker 1: Like how do they have you playing one guy on
Speaker 1: seasons one and two and then they bring you back
Speaker 1: as a totally different guy. I mean they do that
Speaker 1: on SVU all the time, but it's a different kind
Speaker 1: of show.
Speaker 8: I was only I think I was on two episodes, okay,
Speaker 8: season and Aaron. I did a pilot for Aaron Spelling
Speaker 8: with Adrian Brody, Heather Graham, Leon, myself, Clarence Williams was
Speaker 8: a great pilot and it didn't get picked up. And
Speaker 8: Aaron Spelling, He's like, I mean it was long story.
Speaker 8: Somebody really biffed it. But Aaron called one night and he.
Speaker 5: Said, hey, uh, Bob, and we're not going to pick
Speaker 5: this up, but you want to come do Melrose for me?
Speaker 5: And I said, okay, but same character, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: completely different character said I've never done this before, what
Speaker 5: I'm gonna do it? And I said, okay. So that's
Speaker 5: the story of how that happens.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because like, there wasn't social media then,
Speaker 1: so it's not like everybody could be like, wait, isn't
Speaker 1: that Sam like or whatever? You know, like nowadays if
Speaker 1: you do that kind of thing and people go nuts.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you get.
Speaker 5: Rich troll you could I think you could do it
Speaker 5: unless they I guess you could if you spun it correctly,
Speaker 5: but I don't know how you'd spin that so that
Speaker 5: people kind of bought it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you do come on to Melrose Place,
Speaker 1: you're married to Lisa Renna.
Speaker 5: I was to Lisa Ena correct.
Speaker 3: That's why the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or.
Speaker 5: I actually avoid that at all costs, understand, But I
Speaker 5: have to say Lisa is awesome, she's great, She's she's
Speaker 5: a nutbag, right, No, No, I mean she knows she's
Speaker 5: a nutbag. Yeah, she's the most honest, morally sound. I
Speaker 5: would put her in my top ten. She's really awesome.
Speaker 3: We love her. Wow.
Speaker 1: I think her honesty is what gets her in trouble
Speaker 1: on the show. That's for sure.
Speaker 5: I think you're right. But it's also why people love her. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Why she's such you know, a hit in the in
Speaker 5: the social media realm.
Speaker 3: She's never been on SVU. She would be so good.
Speaker 3: She would be great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a kind of evil mom that's up to
Speaker 2: no good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see her on sv.
Speaker 5: Or maybe she's the one that you're sure didn't but
Speaker 5: she didn't do it.
Speaker 3: Ah, Yes, yeah, she's protecting someone.
Speaker 1: We've had your old co star Kathy Griffin from when
Speaker 1: you were on Suddenly Susan, We've had her on the podcast.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I love Kathy's wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a funny lady. But you were mentioning this
Speaker 1: thing where you're a murderer. I guess because like when
Speaker 1: I met your character of Kyle on Melrose, you were
Speaker 1: always like kind of you were pretty much like a
Speaker 1: nice guy. You were like cheating on your wife and
Speaker 1: doing some cheating. You weren't like murdering yeah, you weren't
Speaker 1: like murderous and so I remember watching you in this
Speaker 1: SBU and being like, oh wait, but he's like a
Speaker 1: nice guy. But then you get cast sometimes to play
Speaker 1: these total psychos. How much of your career would you
Speaker 1: say that you've been like nice Scott or like the
Speaker 1: dad on nine O two and oh or whatever the
Speaker 1: reboot of nine O two and oh, Like nice guys
Speaker 1: versus like handsome psychopaths.
Speaker 5: I think it depends. I think probably in TV and film,
Speaker 5: I've been a third of my characters are bad guys,
Speaker 5: and then in theater I tend to do more of
Speaker 5: the bad guys. Okay, the extremities I did up in Seattle.
Speaker 5: I did this guy Solioni who ends up killing one
Speaker 5: of the leads in Chekhov's Three Sisters Fool for Love
Speaker 5: in Scotland I did and that was pretty intense, you know,
Speaker 5: sleeping with my sister and yeah, bad things, but it's
Speaker 5: it's I really enjoy it. I think I think almost
Speaker 5: every actor would rather be a bad guy because it
Speaker 5: gives you freedoms. You don't have the social norms, you
Speaker 5: don't have to be anything other than what the moment demands,
Speaker 5: and it's really fun to.
Speaker 3: Be that as a theater kid.
Speaker 5: Oh no, god, no, no. I was an athlete. Well,
Speaker 5: so I went to Santa Monica High School. So the
Speaker 5: theater geeks at my school were Sean Penn, Charlie c She,
Speaker 5: Emilio Estevez so and it was funny because they were
Speaker 5: always on buses making movies and they had squibs, and
Speaker 5: all their dads were producers and and pretty heavy directors
Speaker 5: and actors. So they just it was that was nuts.
Speaker 5: And so I looked at them and I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: that's not my jam. And then I became a stuntman,
Speaker 5: and then.
Speaker 1: And the stuntman to acting. Pipeline, Yeah it's a thick pipe.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: Sunts were cool. But it's it's really especially now it's
Speaker 5: a tough gig.
Speaker 3: Change.
Speaker 5: I think what's changed If you don't have a specialty,
Speaker 5: If you can't jump a motorcycle three hundred feet in
Speaker 5: the air, that cuts you out for that. If you can't,
Speaker 5: if you're not an MMA fire or so, they're just there.
Speaker 5: There are X game levels of everything, so it's different.
Speaker 5: It used to be you know, you did it all,
Speaker 5: You fell off horses, you got hit by cars, you
Speaker 5: got to set off fire, you were really good at fighting,
Speaker 5: and you could make a living with all of those.
Speaker 5: And now I think across the board in our life,
Speaker 5: like things are just shrunk and you have to have
Speaker 5: an absolute ten at one thing and you can go.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, also I feel like not a lot of longevity,
Speaker 1: and like in the field you get like injured or
Speaker 1: you get older.
Speaker 5: But I think I think the stunts ultimately you have
Speaker 5: those years where and it is it's really safe.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 5: You spend most of your time keeping yourself and people
Speaker 5: really safe, but you end up coordinating stunts, so you
Speaker 5: might not be doing that.
Speaker 3: Oh got it. So then you become like the coach essentially, you.
Speaker 5: Guys want a stable of people that you used for this.
Speaker 5: You got a guy who looks just like Tom Cruise.
Speaker 5: So and actually those are the guys that end up
Speaker 5: being the coordinators of the guys that have attached themselves
Speaker 5: to big stars.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, I like seeing the photos of step Doubles and
Speaker 2: their people together.
Speaker 5: I had a guy named Nut for a show that
Speaker 5: I did for twelve years. No that's not true, six years,
Speaker 5: and it was we we just we went up the
Speaker 5: path together for a really long time, and then he
Speaker 5: was like, dude, I got I'm doing all these other things.
Speaker 5: And I was like, good for you. So it's cool
Speaker 5: if you have good people, and he was really exceptional.
Speaker 2: Well you also in this episode Sandra Bernhardser lawyer that
Speaker 2: fun is was that fun.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, she had such a a reputation of
Speaker 5: I mean before I ever got there. So I got
Speaker 5: this episode because Neil Bear.
Speaker 3: We knew it. We knew it, we reached out to
Speaker 3: So I reached out to Neil.
Speaker 1: He's done our podcast twice, so I reached out to
Speaker 1: him and I said, oh, we're doing this desperate as
Speaker 1: this episode desperate. We're going to have Rob estays on.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask him a question about the episode.
Speaker 3: And he goes, I love Rob. Tell him. I say, hi,
Speaker 3: So this is a hello from Neil Bear to you.
Speaker 5: I love he What a good guy. Yeah, we mean
Speaker 5: the fact that on er, the fact that he's a
Speaker 5: doctor right doing his rounds and he's also writing what
Speaker 5: happens in the day to him in his practice. He's
Speaker 5: writing er and he does that and he becomes the executs,
Speaker 5: the producer, and then he's funny because you've got time
Speaker 5: for a side story.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So George Clooney.
Speaker 5: George Clooney added absolute apex for er Neil Bear had
Speaker 5: hired me to do a pilot called Outreach and it
Speaker 5: was about a kind of like like a George Hooney
Speaker 5: type doctor who's living in Venice and he's down on
Speaker 5: his luck. And uh it was it was me and
Speaker 5: it was me and Mickna.
Speaker 3: When I'm looking at the IMDb for it, yeah.
Speaker 5: So but it didn't get picked up. And but the
Speaker 5: day I got cast and he was like, hey, I
Speaker 5: want you to come. I want you to come sit
Speaker 5: come watch the r I want you this is gonna happen,
Speaker 5: Like this new show is going to be this, So
Speaker 5: let's go watch. I'm sitting there watching and we go
Speaker 5: to lunch at the cafeteria and George Clooney is sitting
Speaker 5: there and he's in his talks. I think it's the episode.
Speaker 5: I think it's one of those episodes where he's like
Speaker 5: in the talks and he saves the day or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we sit down and we just start talking and he
Speaker 5: was so cool and then he's like, hey, come play
Speaker 5: basketball out at lunch. And I was like, okay, but
Speaker 5: what an amazing dude. But anyway, the show didn't get
Speaker 5: picked up, and Neil said, hey, about three years later,
Speaker 5: he said, I'm doing this this show the SPU. When
Speaker 5: you come to an episode, you get to be a
Speaker 5: bad guy. And I was like, yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 2: I knew it was an offer. I knew you did
Speaker 2: an audition for this, like you're so perfect in it,
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's so good, so scary go back to
Speaker 2: Sandra Bernhard.
Speaker 5: Everybody like, you know, I was in an acting class
Speaker 5: and they were like, hey, Sandra's supposed to be really
Speaker 5: tough to work with, and you know, if she can
Speaker 5: get under your skin, you're in trouble. And I'm like, really, shit, Okay,
Speaker 5: I don't know what to expect. She could not have
Speaker 5: been cooler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's it was great.
Speaker 5: She knew what she wanted and totally like you know,
Speaker 5: just back and forth and she was great. So you know,
Speaker 5: you can talk, you can talk a lot of shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know that you shot this like literally twenty three
Speaker 1: years ago or something, but do you have any like
Speaker 1: do you remember doing this like scene with Marishka where
Speaker 1: you're like you didn't have a badge and a gun,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be talking to me like this like you
Speaker 1: were kind of that's like, that's like sort of where
Speaker 1: you face crack a little bit and we see that
Speaker 1: you're not this father of the Year guy that you're
Speaker 1: trying to like show everybody that you are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm trying to remember.
Speaker 3: I remember.
Speaker 5: It was really cool and they were cool.
Speaker 3: They're a good tea.
Speaker 5: I think that's why that show's done so well. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and they were hilarious, like I can't what's his.
Speaker 3: Name, sorry, Christopher Maloney, Kristph.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Chris was like, hey, you do that Silk Stocking show.
Speaker 5: You did that Silk Stocking show. I love that fuck
Speaker 5: the show. I was like, yeah, I did, I did
Speaker 5: that show. He's like, yeah, it was great. It's just
Speaker 5: like you know, it's kind of like what we do here.
Speaker 5: It's like a you know, a male female cop team.
Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, but you guys did really well. But
Speaker 5: he was cool. They were both great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Silk Stockings was like a lot used it. One
Speaker 1: hundred episodes of that that's was on for That used
Speaker 1: to be on the USA Network when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: before the Law and Order SPU became the only thing
Speaker 1: that's on the USA network.
Speaker 5: And it was it was I think I think Silk
Speaker 5: had been dead for two years. And interestingly enough, Stephen
Speaker 5: Cannell who produced Silk Stockings. He he also did twenty
Speaker 5: one Jump Street book Er. He did so many shows
Speaker 5: and CBS was going to put our show on prime
Speaker 5: time and weeks before it happened, Segansky changed his mind.
Speaker 5: He's like, he said to Candle, you know what a
Speaker 5: cable show. If I bring a cable show onto my network,
Speaker 5: it makes me look like my network isn't great. And
Speaker 5: we were like, you're like what, and he said, yeah,
Speaker 5: I can't do it. If this was if this was
Speaker 5: a show on a different network, maybe, but I can't
Speaker 5: do it. And it was funny because now it's the opposite,
Speaker 5: you know, And he had a chance to break complete, right,
Speaker 5: he just kind of I get it, Dough. I get
Speaker 5: the temperature was a little different back then and cable
Speaker 5: was a weaker thing, but man, it would have blown up.
Speaker 5: He would have killed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like one of those shows that's like now
Speaker 1: if it's on cable and it goes to Netflix. Now
Speaker 1: everybody's like rediscovering like suits or something, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you could have toned it down. I Mean
Speaker 5: one of the reasons SO did well as a late
Speaker 5: night was it crimetime after Primetime? I think was the Moniker.
Speaker 5: It did well because we pushed envelopes. Now every show
Speaker 5: push is envelope. Yeah, it was just I think it
Speaker 5: was just bear too ahead of the time. I think
Speaker 5: had we been on Fox, Fox, who've done it because
Speaker 5: they were already realizing that pushing an envelope is what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were doing all that nypdlu stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Hardian says were getting smarter than were used to seeing,
Speaker 5: you know, kind of a little frisky your life a
Speaker 5: little more fire.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When they showed Dennis Franz's butt on NYPD Blue and fell,
Speaker 1: it was like a watershed moment in television.
Speaker 5: How good was that show?
Speaker 3: I mean that was that?
Speaker 1: Like you that was the thing, Like everybody was always
Speaker 1: talking about the thing that happened on NYPD Blue that
Speaker 1: you had never seen on you know, network TV before.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and SVU now does stuff that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe this isn't on HBO. I mean like they
Speaker 1: some of this stuff is like really graphic, like really
Speaker 1: and you're like, you know, but you're right, like your
Speaker 1: show was pushing it before they were pushing it.
Speaker 2: Nope, So do you remember kind of no, you know,
Speaker 2: how do you play a person you know as a
Speaker 2: psycho evil but does have this good guy I persona
Speaker 2: to everybody but these detectives or you play it like
Speaker 2: you think you're the good guy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you I mean, I think I think the majority
Speaker 5: of people who do bad things think that they are
Speaker 5: good guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean you're lying because you have to to help.
Speaker 5: I mean there's probably a partner's head that that if
Speaker 5: he was convicted for this murder, his son was going
Speaker 5: to have a really bad life and I wouldn't be
Speaker 5: around for him. And yeah, but you're just everything. Yeah,
Speaker 5: when you play everything's.
Speaker 9: Okay, it comp right, they can and then I think
Speaker 9: it's it's when you know, these guys are put in
Speaker 9: a situation that they cannot talk their way out of,
Speaker 9: or buy their way out of, or manipulate their way
Speaker 9: out of, then then it changes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was the King of Rye, the King.
Speaker 3: Do you want to talk about your upcoming projects?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love to the stars. It's with Andy Garcia,
Speaker 5: Alec Pettifer. Oh yes, cast shot at in Puglia, Italy
Speaker 5: for a month and a half, which was super fun.
Speaker 5: He was very enjoyable. And it's just about a young
Speaker 5: writer who has lost his art. He's lost his way
Speaker 5: and he's I play his agent. That's just you know that,
Speaker 5: who cares if you've lost your way? Make me money,
Speaker 5: just write something. It's not about art. It's about let's go,
Speaker 5: let's publish. I need I need money. But good things
Speaker 5: happened to him and uh Andy Garcia is hilarious. Oh
Speaker 5: my god. I was like, he came up with a
Speaker 5: couple of things that were so good and I'll you know,
Speaker 5: if he had his son come and be with him
Speaker 5: in Italy for uh I think a couple of weeks
Speaker 5: of filming and they had they just seem to have
Speaker 5: like the coolest relationship because it's like an old kid.
Speaker 5: He's like twenty something and you know, Andy had him
Speaker 5: in one of the scenes and directed him. It was
Speaker 5: it was really cool. We had a good time filming it.
Speaker 3: That's amazing. You got to go to Italy.
Speaker 5: I got hey, I got to go to Italy. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I got to go to Italy.
Speaker 1: Where where is this movie? Is this going to have
Speaker 1: theatrical or is it going to be streaming?
Speaker 5: Yes, so it's going to be on Netflix. Oh great,
Speaker 5: and I believe it comes out November seventeenth.
Speaker 3: Awesome.
Speaker 5: Perfect. Yeah, it's it's cool, it's it's it's it's family,
Speaker 5: it's it's about love and what's important, which I think
Speaker 5: is a good topic for these days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this episode comes out the next day, so you
Speaker 1: guys can all go watch under the Stars.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Wait, but you also just did a movie called The
Speaker 2: Italians kind of a theme the theme happening I did.
Speaker 5: That was fun. That was that was a low budget
Speaker 5: what I say, pet project or I just I love
Speaker 5: the character. Uh. Sometimes you get a script and you
Speaker 5: read it, you go, I might not be right for this,
Speaker 5: but I don't care. This is this is gonna. I
Speaker 5: know exactly what I want to do with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And one of those, and it was just it was
Speaker 5: a labor of love and it was a lot of
Speaker 5: blast with it. Just ripped it out in like twenty
Speaker 5: eight days of of fun.
Speaker 3: Wait, well then I'm like, what's the character?
Speaker 5: So I play an Italian husband who may have cheated
Speaker 5: on his wife. It's still love it.
Speaker 3: But he may not have Okay, I love that.
Speaker 5: It was a little bit up in the up in
Speaker 5: the air, but you know, Abigail Breslin.
Speaker 2: In it, she's in an s vu as a really
Speaker 2: little girl, like a long time ago.
Speaker 3: It's one of the best ones.
Speaker 5: She did a scene in Times and I was like,
Speaker 5: I mean she took something that was just okay and
Speaker 5: she made it so good. Yeah, and no Wonder You're
Speaker 5: who you are? That was brilliant.
Speaker 1: So what are these movies that are like you're always
Speaker 1: playing the same person, like After Everything, After Ever, Happy,
Speaker 1: After We Fell, After We Collided?
Speaker 5: What are those? That is a series of books written
Speaker 5: by Anatod with Hero Fine uh oh in Joseph Fine
Speaker 5: Landford Langford and so it was huge. It was like
Speaker 5: I think there were seven books. I was in five
Speaker 5: of the films and it was just like young angsty
Speaker 5: love and What Things Caught.
Speaker 1: You sort of like soapy movies kind of totally but
Speaker 1: teen drama, okay, really pushing it, like pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2: One of the Sprouses is in one of them. He's like, yes, famous, yeah.
Speaker 5: You know he and hero are are became good friends.
Speaker 5: And then Beautiful Wedding that Dylan's in he's the star
Speaker 5: of those two that kind of came off. One of
Speaker 5: the producers of After went and then did Beautiful Wedding
Speaker 5: and we're directors as well.
Speaker 1: Wait, so when you go do these movies, is it
Speaker 1: are these like in Vancouver or you guys go to
Speaker 1: like Cool Islands or where are you doing these?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: The team these teen movies.
Speaker 5: Uh, Beautiful Wedding was in Dominican Republic and then the
Speaker 5: After series one was in Atlanta and the other were
Speaker 5: during COVID. Oh, during COVID in Bulgaria. So we all
Speaker 5: we got the top two floors of this high rise
Speaker 5: and we all got tested three times a day, and
Speaker 5: ultimately we all got COVID because one person I've got
Speaker 5: the knight that Biden got kind of sworn in. We
Speaker 5: had a party and it happened to be Hero's birthday
Speaker 5: and we've all been quarantined for so.
Speaker 3: You're like, how could we have it? Yeah, he was wrong.
Speaker 5: Sad You're already wearing a mask and you're getting tested
Speaker 5: at the times and nobody's got it. But I remember
Speaker 5: that night is Hero's birthday. We had a party and
Speaker 5: we'll look like we're playing games and it's pretty on
Speaker 5: cast and remember looking over at one point and we
Speaker 5: were drinking looking over and I'm like, all these twenty
Speaker 5: two to twenty six year olds were kind of tackling
Speaker 5: each other on the floor. I just remember growing myself. Wow,
Speaker 5: that's that's like a COVID cocktail right there. The next morning,
Speaker 5: the lead actress tested positive. By the end of the day,
Speaker 5: three other people and then I didn't get it until
Speaker 5: eleven days later, but we were all quarantee, like we
Speaker 5: had to stop filming. Oh my god, I think it's
Speaker 5: tri but it was fun.
Speaker 1: And then you're just in Bulgaria for a week in
Speaker 1: a hotel trying to get better.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was fourteen days.
Speaker 5: I was in food in, food out for fourteen days.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a time.
Speaker 1: I feel like, unless you have any last minute memories
Speaker 1: of SVU that are popping into your mind that you
Speaker 1: want to give.
Speaker 3: Our listeners, we'll let you get on with your day.
Speaker 5: If you happen to talk to Neil Beer again, tell
Speaker 5: him that I send.
Speaker 3: My best I will message him right now and tell
Speaker 3: him for sure we're obsessed with him.
Speaker 2: But you are one of the classic SVU villains that
Speaker 2: have stood the test of time. I mean, we're they're
Speaker 2: on season twenty seven, and you're still so very memorable.
Speaker 1: That someone had to go through an underground railroad to
Speaker 1: escape you. I mean it's like, that's really diabolic. I
Speaker 1: get chills in that scene every time I watch.
Speaker 3: It, Like, I, I.
Speaker 2: Really love this episode, so thank you for doing this.
Speaker 2: He was handsome, he was fun. It was a thrill.
Speaker 2: I would be a thrill. What a lovely guy.
Speaker 1: And I was like, if I could have told like
Speaker 1: twelve year old Cara that she was going to be
Speaker 1: talking to Kyle on a podcast, she would have said,
Speaker 1: what's a podcast? You know?
Speaker 2: So yeah, tell us if you want to be the Tommies.
Speaker 2: I also do really like the idea of dumpster sluts,
Speaker 2: but I understand, wasn't that what it was?
Speaker 3: Trash slut? It was it was dumpster dumpster slut.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, I think, no, Tommy, if you guys tell us,
Speaker 1: tell us, tell us if you guys want to be
Speaker 1: the Tommies. I kind of love the TMU Tommies. I
Speaker 1: think that that's fun. But wigh, And maybe we'll do
Speaker 1: a poll when this episode comes out and see if
Speaker 1: you guys want us to be people have been sending
Speaker 1: in more suggestions, but to me, the Tommies are kind
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: I hope they love it. We'll see what they feel. Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, I don't know that no show as a hold
Speaker 2: on me like this one. But anytime a new season
Speaker 2: of Selling Sunset drops, my day is done and I
Speaker 2: watch it all in one day.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: I've never seen it enough in it selling, so I
Speaker 1: can't get enough, and I have the reunion waiting for me.
Speaker 2: I feel like Salt Lake City. I'm back in, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm back in, I'm in. But Selling Sunset takes over
Speaker 2: my life for a day. Every time I can't not watch,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't split it into two days ever.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's like a must watch, must binge get it
Speaker 1: all in.
Speaker 2: I never have seen it for a second. I don't
Speaker 2: think you would like it. I think you'd be really
Speaker 2: not into it.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like I don't think you'd like the houses.
Speaker 2: I don't think you'd like the outfits.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe.
Speaker 2: Well, now now I feel like it's reverse psychology. And
Speaker 2: now you're like, oh, you don't think I like it,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking watch it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now I'm gonna watch it and fe No, I
Speaker 3: mean I got you know, I have, like I liked
Speaker 3: Kroshelle on The Traders.
Speaker 2: She's on that, Oh yeah she is, and she doesn't
Speaker 2: give a fuck, like she lets people have it. But
Speaker 2: there was one person she went below thet She just
Speaker 2: said something crazy and they had to kick her off
Speaker 2: the show. But she will not take accountability. And she
Speaker 2: straight up goes, Krishelle, maybe you're projecting because of your
Speaker 2: you know, drug addict parents and they both had just died,
Speaker 2: and so everyone's like, you.
Speaker 3: Have to leave.
Speaker 1: Wait, someone Chrishelle said that too. Someone said that to
Speaker 1: Chroshelle and had to leave. Yeah, she's just like not
Speaker 1: good on television. This other woman whoa what.
Speaker 3: Was her name? Nicole?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and one of Nick Cannon's baby mama was
Speaker 2: on it too, one of the many.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, wow, I don't know. Yeah, my mom
Speaker 1: said she watched it. No, no, that was the different one.
Speaker 1: That was the one on a Bravo one. She was
Speaker 1: watching a Bravo what's the one with the boat with
Speaker 1: the men the Oppenheim.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oppenheimer is selling Sunset and it is on Netflix.
Speaker 3: But what about a million dollar, million dollar listing.
Speaker 1: I think my mom watched Out on a plane once
Speaker 1: and she said it was so hilarious. She thought it
Speaker 1: was a joke. The whole thing she doesn't understand anyway.
Speaker 1: The post mortem on this show, this episode is women
Speaker 1: are really organized and can do great things. Uh, and
Speaker 1: that men are terrifying, Right, I guess that's the bottom line.
Speaker 2: Really scary episode. I hold on to it forever, just
Speaker 2: like the trickery of it all and the acceptance of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a great guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah the bitch ran off.
Speaker 2: It's like what the whole town is just under his
Speaker 2: like baby blue spell, baby blue Eyes spell.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I always think of this episode when people are like,
Speaker 1: why didn't you just leave? You should have just called
Speaker 1: on and you should just leave, you know.
Speaker 3: It's like.
Speaker 2: Don't. Yeah, It's it's really crazy the way humanity, like
Speaker 2: like why are you even blaming this person who didn't
Speaker 2: leave when this person's beating them? Like I just don't
Speaker 2: even get the like the conversation. But you know, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty hardcore. Yeah, they have hardcore, And I mean the
Speaker 2: cases I mean we're talking about hard to leave. I mean,
Speaker 2: to take a two day old baby, to take a
Speaker 2: two day old baby. Think that's what's good for the baby,
Speaker 2: because this dude hit her Like fuck, I can't.
Speaker 3: I really don't understand the world.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: I just don't know you could.
Speaker 2: Do that neglect or neglect they want to get out,
Speaker 2: give the more care, help people leave, I believe.
Speaker 3: But I also love that with Fay.
Speaker 2: Everyone's like her personality was terrible and we did have
Speaker 2: to uh do a separate group.
Speaker 3: She did help kids, but boy was she a pill?
Speaker 3: Was she a bitch? Yeah?
Speaker 2: All right, yeah, why do women have to be likable?
Speaker 3: Go fuck yourself?
Speaker 1: I mean it was also like how bad was her
Speaker 1: personality or was she just pushy? It's like the way
Speaker 1: everybody's always like Rosie O'Donnell was a bitch on her show,
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk was a bitch on her show.
Speaker 3: Meredith Vieira was a bitch on her show.
Speaker 1: It's like, or were they or were they just the
Speaker 1: Boston You didn't like that Rosie.
Speaker 2: I wonder when she'll get the like kudos that she deserves.
Speaker 2: Yeah for being right about everything decades ahead of time, truly, you.
Speaker 1: Know, just I feel sad that she left America that
Speaker 1: she's in like Ireland now, well.
Speaker 3: The president bullies her, so I know she has to leave.
Speaker 1: I know it makes me sad because I'm like, you
Speaker 1: should shouldn't have to relocate countries because of our bully
Speaker 1: ass president.
Speaker 2: But did you read this teen Vogue? It's is it Vogue?
Speaker 2: It's oh my god. Honestly teen Vogue fired everyone their
Speaker 2: politics team. I mean the fact that Barry Wei's this
Speaker 2: dumb bitch at CEBIA. Every black person's fired. They only
Speaker 2: kept white people. It's like, I can't it's it's so sickening.
Speaker 2: It's so sickening it's happening, and I wonder and people
Speaker 2: still seem to be in denial.
Speaker 3: I don't think our listeners.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but the reason I was shocking it was
Speaker 2: but it was you know what I mean, It's like
Speaker 2: that's that's the whole.
Speaker 1: Point, Like, yeah, what's truly shocking anyone anymore?
Speaker 2: It's Oh, they don't want they don't want it, and
Speaker 2: we all need to just be doing hobbies, you know,
Speaker 2: because the internet technology is about you know, we'll not
Speaker 2: we're not gonna have electricity soon.
Speaker 3: You guys got to get beads, you gotta get hobbies.
Speaker 1: You got to get my bunker ready, and I only
Speaker 1: have like forty dollars cash on me at any given time.
Speaker 1: I'm fucked, plus my glasses. I need to get Lasick
Speaker 1: before the apocalypse.
Speaker 3: I know, but people people don't love lace, I mean Lasik.
Speaker 3: I know. Wait, what's the documentary? Is it out?
Speaker 2: I want to watch the Lasik documentary. There's a Lasick documentary. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's They go if people the Bleeding Edge. Oh it's
Speaker 2: from twenty eighteen. Oh broken eyes. Saw some of them
Speaker 2: posts this thing where she says I got lasick. It
Speaker 2: worked amazing. I have eye pain every single day, every day.
Speaker 2: My eyes ache. Yeah, I was like, that sounds awful.
Speaker 2: Dark underbelly of billion dollar industry. They basically say like
Speaker 2: if people knew the percentage of people where it's not good,
Speaker 2: it would net people would.
Speaker 3: Never do it. Oh fuck, okay, well for me, but
Speaker 3: the end of the world, you can't really have glasses either.
Speaker 1: I know what am I gonna do? I have three pairs,
Speaker 1: but my kids will break them if I get's like
Speaker 1: the fake teeth like people getting veneers. I'm like, honey,
Speaker 1: what if you don't have ten grand in a little
Speaker 1: bit you're getting you're gonna.
Speaker 3: Have those sharp little pointy guys coming out. It's fucked,
Speaker 3: it's fussy.
Speaker 2: They were cooked, as the youth said, I don't even
Speaker 2: know where you say that.
Speaker 3: Rose.
Speaker 1: He keeps saying that, Oh that's really that you're cooked,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my god, Rosie.
Speaker 3: Sus cooked everything.
Speaker 2: That's so fucking cute. Listen, we all have to help
Speaker 2: each other. And if you see someone that's going through
Speaker 2: domestic violence, slip the guy's throat statut of jail.
Speaker 3: Oh, I hope your abuser dies. Yeah, And I don't know.
Speaker 2: What I'm doing with my life, but I've been watching
Speaker 2: YouTube like the Most Dangerous Woman in Prison, and it's
Speaker 2: like about women that kill, and thirty to forty percent
Speaker 2: of women in prison killed like an abuser.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think any of them should be in prison.
Speaker 2: No, But then they have to go like, oh there
Speaker 2: was a blood spot, but basically like, yeah, women stabs
Speaker 2: one three hundred times. But I've just been watching interviews
Speaker 2: and of women in prison and they're just so sad.
Speaker 1: Oh it's not like the cell bloc tango. I'm telling
Speaker 1: you no. And then he ran into my knife. He
Speaker 1: ran into my knife twelve times. I don't even remember
Speaker 1: how many times it is.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but one woman, I don't I think it
Speaker 3: was DV. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't think she should have gotten what she got.
Speaker 2: But the way she got caught was they have like
Speaker 2: a secret camera where they put her with her grandma
Speaker 2: and she was like talking to her grandma, and her
Speaker 2: grandma kept going stop talking. And then it's like Miranda rights,
Speaker 2: but only if you're under arrest, so like, if you're
Speaker 2: not under arrest, they don't have to read you your
Speaker 2: Miranda rights and they can film you, so like you can't.
Speaker 2: You shouldn't if you're arrested, you shouldn't say anything anywhere
Speaker 2: in the precinct to anyone. Yeah, hopefully don't commit a crime,
Speaker 2: don't murder, do that. And a lot of them are
Speaker 2: mothers and like, and then they have like there's like
Speaker 2: a mother's wing on one of the prisons, and when
Speaker 2: they go to visiting day they have to have a
Speaker 2: guard with them to protect the kids because you're allowed
Speaker 2: to have kids.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: I don't know why I've been watching it, but I've
Speaker 2: been watching just Women in Prison on YouTube. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's it's scary sounds secary and sad. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: know why I'm doing it. I should stick a selling
Speaker 2: Sunset and Salt Lake City Housewives.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's a perfect segue though into our
Speaker 1: what would Say Peg do this week?
Speaker 3: Or what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: Is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization,
Speaker 1: a book, a movie, something to give you more information
Speaker 1: on what we talked about today and this week, we
Speaker 1: wanted to point you to Underground Railroad, Inc. Which is
Speaker 1: a provider of emergency shelter and services for victims and
Speaker 1: survivors of intimate partner violence that operates out of Saginaw, Michigan.
Speaker 1: They provide services for survivors of domestic violence, stocking, sexual assault,
Speaker 1: and human slavery. They also have a twenty four hour
Speaker 1: helpline for victims of domestic abuse and if you happen
Speaker 1: to live in Michigan, they provide emergency shelter, but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of resources at their organization for anyone across
Speaker 1: the country. So for more info or to donate, head
Speaker 1: on over to Underground Railroadinc. Dot org and that will
Speaker 1: be linked in our show notes as usual and then
Speaker 1: posted forever on Shared on our Instagram page That's Messed
Speaker 1: Up Pod as a story and saved forever inner WWSPD highlights.
Speaker 3: And thank you for that.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be doing Blast season seven, episode thirteen. Oh,
Speaker 2: it's such a good episode. We really I like this podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thanks for listening, guys. We like this podcast. We like
Speaker 2: you guys.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 3: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun dun,