WEBVTT - Desperate w/ Rob Estes 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.040 Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.840 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:08.879 vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:10.320 These are our stories. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:31.240 Done done, Okay, that's messed up In SVU podcast. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:36.440 I'm Liza Traeger, I'm Kara Klank. You guys know the drill. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:41.960 It's SVU episodes, it's true crimes, it's guests and first 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.479 it's gab and listen. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.120 I'm sure you have things to tell me. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.320 But I did just get a message before we got 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.159 on this recording from a listener who said that they 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.520 cannot divulge their sources, but they heard that Dick Wolf 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.840 was in a very quiet meeting and his phone went 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.040 off and the tone was the SVU theme song. So 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.960 I don't care if it's true, it's gossip. It's fact 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.039 to me, and it's funny to me. That's really funny. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:11.840 It's awesome. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.280 It's like every time the phone rings, he's reminded of 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:16.680 a new more money. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.920 He's about yeah, exactly everything, Like I bet he gets 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.240 a piece of the ring tone, you know, Like even 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.240 that he's like, yep, one hundred percent. 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.440 We should fucking find the composer, dude. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.319 Oh yeah, you know everyone's doing the dances and the 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.360 fun videos and you know the guy and the piano, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.040 but like, who's the composer? 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.600 And also why is the SVU theme song so much 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.760 better than the regular and the criminal intent? They're all 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.920 kind of variations on the same one, but SF you 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.680 just slaps harder. No one's doing dances to original on order. No, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.480 it is just the best, like all together. 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.000 I don't think original recipe thought that sv would kick 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.320 them off their throne, you know, but like it is 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:00.920 what it is. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.400 Yeah, it's fucking good. Oh. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.080 I ran into a good friend of ours, Mindy Tucker. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.799 Oh yeah, and god, I got the best photo. I 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.679 can't you, guys, you don't even know what's coming. She's 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.400 the best photographer in the game. I would never hire 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.239 anyone else but her, to be honest, And she invented, 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.160 I think, comedy photography in the New York comedy scene 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:22.760 for sure before I even got here. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.640 I knew about her before I even moved to New York. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.000 And now it's really with the Internet become a thing 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.160 where a lot of people do it, and a lot 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.640 of people are talented at it, but no one makes 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:32.640 people look better. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.000 She was the first. Yeah, no, she is the best. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.800 And I just ran into her husband when I was 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:39.800 in the city over the summer because he does stand up, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:41.560 which I didn't. 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.720 Know, and he was great. Well, Kara, she wanted me 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.840 to send you a message. What that She listens to 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.560 the pod and she was really happy what we said 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.600 about the Saudi Already Arabia Comedy Festival and then she 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.440 felt so isolated and disappointed in people and that we 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:55.760 made her feel heard. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.480 Mindy baby anytime. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:03.320 Because she's just rejected that she has been doing for 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.680 a decade because she's. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.280 Putting her money where her mouthress. Yeah, but yeah, so 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.160 shout out to her. She's the best. And if you're 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.240 in New York or anywhere getting married or have an 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.600 event or or a comp or you need a headshot. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.119 The only reason she didn't do my wedding is because 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:18.400 she was invited to my wedding. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.000 That's yeah, like she didn't. I like she was. She 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.960 didn't do my wedding photos because she was invited. 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:25.520 But what was I gonna say if any of you 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.320 have been to our live shows and you've gone on 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.400 my venmo and you're like, is that you with the 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:29.960 brown hair? 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:30.919 That's a Indy. 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.160 A lot of when you get a Mindy, you keep 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.720 the Mindy as your like profile for a while, like 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:37.320 it used to be. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.960 Yeah, if you got a Mindy, it's like a huge deal. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.240 Well, I hope that he goes back and listens to 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.000 our episode where we interviewed James or Baniac because I 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.920 told him about how she has such a sweet little 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.520 Southern accent because she's from Alabama and she'll be like, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.280 oh my god, I'm at James or Bainiac and we 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.320 told him that, and you know, now it's now, it's 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.560 on It's on podcast film forever. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.040 The way we get to flex about our guests. I 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.560 did a Devin Walker's music podcast, so if it hasn't 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.840 come out, like look out for that. But I name 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.600 Dropp because I was talking about stuff and I was like, well, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.600 you know when Wycliffe did the pod and he does, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:20.000 excuse me, it's like so to flex. I did meet 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.000 a Bravo celebrity last night. You don't watch below Deck, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.960 but I met Fraser. Oh okay, I've heard the name 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:28.800 and I did last night. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.280 He was so like, is he on the one with 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.279 Captain Jason or is he a captain Sandy guy or 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.960 is he with the old guy Lee is gone? 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:38.720 He's sandy. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.360 I've only watched two of his seasons when he started, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.080 but now he's like full chiefs too. I mean, he 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:51.240 looked and smelled incredible. He really did. It was an honor. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.520 And then I also saw Jeffrey self last night. Oh, 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.919 I hadn't seen, I would say in years. 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.080 He I thought of when Diane Keaton passed away. I 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:02.760 literally thought it. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.240 So I obviously brought that up, and he goes, no, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:06.839 I was taking a nap or he was reading, he 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.719 was doing something, and he said he woke up to 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.200 eighty eight texts and that he just saw. I was like, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.760 thinking of you. You're the first person I thought of, 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:16.440 and he goes, great, Cola Scola died. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.200 This is because they're best friends. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.640 Jeffrey with Cole's date to the Tony's And if you're 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.240 unfamiliar with Jeffrey's work, probably one of the smartest people 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:26.760 I've ever met. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:27.960 And funny, it's so funny. 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.400 But yeah, and then so I don't know if it 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:36.000 was relief that it was Diane Keyan, but like, obviously 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:36.680 never thought about. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:38.080 They're very connected. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:43.200 Yes, yes, someone that wait. I don't think I told 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:44.680 you that. I watched The Drop. 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:45.560 Oh my god. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.040 So Meghan Fay, he was out last night too. Oh okay. 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.200 Jeffries is the waiter in that movie, and he's so funny. 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.760 I really had a star studded night. It's all coming 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:55.159 back to me. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.800 Yeah, Meghan Fay, he was out last night with her 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:02.560 boyfriend Leo Woodhull Woodhull And yeah, I partied with my 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:03.560 I forgot, I forgot. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.080 Yeah, But I watched The Drop on a flight. I 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.360 liked it. Yeah, I liked it. I thought it was cool. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.600 And it's like a bottle movie, like it all takes 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.680 place basically in two places and but mostly one. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:18.279 It's also just captivating, talented, hot, and so nice and 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.680 talks about our podcast so kindly. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:26.640 Yeah, and it was photos from last night. Oh my god. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.360 I love how you're piecing it all together. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.360 Now, what other guests of our podcast did you run 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:32.440 into that you forgot? 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:33.520 Yeah? 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.200 I have no photos, Okay, so that's interesting. But yeah, 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.359 I definitely had a great time. I did a game show, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:50.039 Matt and Dave's Yeah, SHRAMADNSA And it's just they're really smart. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.200 There is a winner my strake. I won and it's controversial. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.680 I did think the other guy deserved it, and so 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:58.679 that's tough. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.360 I drink. Did you have Devin or a Meal? 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.360 I had a meal, okay, and they both were great, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.640 but like a Meal lost last time because he didn't 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.120 know the words to the lip sync and he didn't 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.400 know the words again to the lip sync, and so 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.280 to me, that was insane and I was like a 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.840 toddler and Tiara Mom I was in the audience yelling 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:25.760 at him, like mouth, what was the song Olivia Dean? 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.880 I mean, it's a weird song. They picked their two hip. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.800 It was like it's a woman that's opening for Sabrina Carpenter. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:35.000 But Matt said MSG was sad, like people were there first. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.400 So she has a big hit. Yeah, I've heard of 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 her on Who Weekly. Yeah, they've they've talked about her. 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.280 So I had I listened to it a bunch and 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.280 they're like, we listened to it. I go, did you 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.160 look at the lyrics? Did you google the lyrics? And 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.840 they both stared at me, and Devin has a podcast 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.280 about lyrics. I go, So you just thought you were 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.760 going to listen to the song without looking at the 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:54.679 lyrics in front. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.280 Of your face. Oh my god, it's like straight. Oh 0:07:58.320 --> 0:07:58.680 my god. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.360 There was a photo of Ashley Tisdale and they can't 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.720 get help from their coaches, and the straight men have 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.720 to like, guess who it is? It was Ashley Tisdale, 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.520 Emil wrote Avril Levine, question mark. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:14.320 It was. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.320 And then we have to do a fashion moment. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:17.760 We have to like go backstage and cut up a 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.120 T shirt and like design it to honor their straight culture. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:20.400 Right. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.320 So we're working on this thing and I want to 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.080 do a backless thing and then in front, and we're 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.160 thinking and I go, oh, how about we do the 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:29.720 j Lo Green Versace dress. 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.520 And he goes, oh, can you pull up? Can you 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.520 pull up a photo of that? I go, it's not 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.240 burned into your brain. I go, it's the reason Google 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:37.360 images was invented. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.000 He goes, for real, I go, the fact that you 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.520 don't know this is not gay or straight like this is. 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.120 He's also young, he's like twenty five or twenty six, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:51.640 but like, yeah, it's just the straits are really funny. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.080 Yeah yeah, yeah them straights, Yeah. 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.680 This straight they're just it's just different culture, it really is, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.920 but and then it's dry race board secrets and us 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.560 two teams had the same answer also three times but 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:14.719 also wrong screwp mind but incorrect, but also cuoma is 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.199 an answer for one. So I'm excited I got it right. 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.520 So I'm like celebrating my sign up and I go, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.280 can please nobody take a photo and post that please 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.640 of me holding a thing that says cuoma. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.319 I forgot the name of this. Casey had Junior g 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:30.800 to listen. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.560 Someone explained a horror movie to me, scariest thing I've 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.680 ever heard. Could me and Meggie, we couldn't even take 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.800 it in. I have to watch it. So basically, this 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.040 woman you probably know it. This woman and her husband 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.400 moved to Ireland in some remote, remote village. He's a doctor, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.280 so he's working an overnight at the doctor. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.680 What is it called adity? Yes, I just watch it. Wow, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.280 Casey only watch it last week? 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.920 Sentence Okay, so tell me how you let me just 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.160 describe it to a kara because it is so this is. 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.040 A great I know exactly what you're setting up and 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:04.280 this is a great conversation. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:05.480 Yeah. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.280 So she hears something right, so she hears something down 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.120 the route whatever. So she goes outside to check it 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.000 out or check the mail something. She goes outside. When 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.840 she goes back in, immediately the door bell rings. She 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.880 you know, who is it? They go, hey, I just 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.200 saw a man go into your house while you're outside. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.000 Oh God, chills. And so we were. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.640 Debating what we would do, and people were like, I'd 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:31.120 go outside and go I would never go outside. I 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.079 would like sit leaned against the door with a weapon 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:37.319 so I can go outside. 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.000 But if someone's here, I don't know. That's what I 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:39.640 don't know. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.559 Okay, Casey, this is we just had this conversation, and 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.760 I think Tricia came up with the best solution. So 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.360 because the guy outside the door, who's like, I just 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.679 saw a guy run into your house, he seems panicked, 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.600 and he'd like is saying he wants to help her. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.480 He's like, let me in so I can get or. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.440 Why doesn't that I just call it? Are we in 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.360 a no cell phone, we're in the country. 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:04.760 We're in the country. You're out. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.360 But to me, my thing I have not seen it 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.120 is if you're this remote in the country, who's this 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:11.400 guy to even be here to see? 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.480 That's why it's like frightening. This is what Tricia said 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.040 she would do. She said she would stay inside the 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.200 house and say, if you really want to help me, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.160 here are my car keys. Open the trunk, lock yourself 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.040 in the trunk, and leave the keys outside of the trunk. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.280 Then I will come in the car with you locked 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.600 in the trunk. We'll drive to the police station together 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.120 I'll let you out. WHOA, I thought that was a 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:36.880 pretty good solution. 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.199 Damn, you married a genius. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.319 Yeah, damn, she really fucking thought that through. I have 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.439 to be it's the guy who I can't wait to 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.160 send him a voice note. That's such a good one. 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.880 But we were all like so scared last night. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.959 It's scary. It's a good movie. It's really good. It's 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.680 is it American? The movie? It's Irish. It's Irish. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:12:02.040 Ooh, I love that auditydy Okay, well wait, speaking of Irish, 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.280 there's an Irish stew on uh below deck that I 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.240 don't watch below Deck, but I did watch the new 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:07.720 Salt Lake. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.480 Have you? You probably haven't seen it, right, because I've 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:11.080 been ring. 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.280 I'm probably two or three behind, honestly on most Bravos stuff. Yeah, 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.280 it's really crazy to see the two genres mix together 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.800 because the Housewives of Salt Lake go on the boat 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.800 with the hot captain Jason and all the stews, but 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.640 then they're just screaming at each other NonStop, and the 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:31.600 stews keep being like dinner, the chef wanted to meet you, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.480 and they will not stop screaming to meet the chef. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.560 They just keep screaming at each other and nothing's getting anywhere. 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:43.679 It's so crazy, and I think Lisa Barlow has run 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:44.880 out her value on the show. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:45.800 That's my opinion. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.120 But dude, you know, if you if you can never 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.800 take accountability, that's not interesting to me. If you never 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.439 back down, you're always that you can't apologize, Like, it's 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:57.720 just not fun to even want. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.840 I don't like it, and I don't like watching any 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:03.040 on the Housewives really that thinks they're like too She 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.280 almost thinks she's too good to be on it, Like 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.199 she says shit like you guys are lucky to hang 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.800 out with me, like she truly delusionally thinks she is 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.079 like an A list celebrity, And it's so crazy. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.719 It's like, well, Benn Walker isn't calling you his best friend? Yeah, yeah, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.480 I hung out with Blake Lively. I'm like, I don't 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.240 think Blake's telling anyone. She's thank you for a new 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.920 best friend. They do get like celebrities do watch it, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:30.440 you know, Like that's what's crazy. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:34.240 It's like it's hard to watch all they're not like 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.559 we love Lisa the most. It's like even if Rihanna 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.880 is like texting Heather, Heather's not the one that's like 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:41.760 I'm better than all of you, you know what I mean? 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.320 Like, wait, this reminds me. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.720 So during game show, I'm like trying to win and 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.360 I'm showing the outfit and things aren't. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.440 It's just not going our way in my mind. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.800 So then I go, you know, guys, just so you know, backstage, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.080 she looked at me and said, I'd like to keep 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.040 the song please, like Valentine that and so then Dave 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.160 Masni's boyfriend later goes, I can't believe he said that. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:05.960 That was so cool. 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.559 I go, I said that if he didn't know who 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.480 Jay looked like, he didn't say that, he goes. I 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.840 thought that's the reason he should win because he quoted 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:15.720 this deep cut Valentina quote. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:23.080 No I was lying. I lie. Oh my god, Smart 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.880 didn't know Smart you have to get your knowledge on them. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.240 I know, yeah it was. It's such a good concept, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.560 it's so fun. I wish their TV show wasn't on Quibi. 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.640 Yeah, I say, maybe I can get another go somewhere 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.040 else because it's just so well. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:40.160 I think gay is out. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.440 Unfortunately in this regime, they're like they're not really buying 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:44.520 gay projects. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.000 But also like where is anybody? Where is anybody playing? 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.120 Like a fun alternative kind of game show thing like 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:52.040 no one has had done. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.920 And it's also England because I was talking to the 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:55.920 comics and they're like there's a lot less panel and 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:56.840 chat shows there. 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:57.920 There's just less production. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.080 Like when people don't have food, they're not going to 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.040 go to perform. You know, we're going to eventually be 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:10.760 performing for the rich or not again. I don't know, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.960 like I don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:15.360 we'll keep doing this. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.520 Yeah, this will be We're not going anywhere you can 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.320 go to that's messed up live dot com to get 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.560 to Lisa's website, to get to our merch. I mean, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.040 we have new merch coming, but I don't know when 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.240 it's supposed to come out in time to get for Christmas, 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.920 so keep an eye on that. We'll obviously announce it 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:39.320 on our Instagram as well. And then yeah, you know, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:41.960 throw us a rating, tell a friend, I don't know, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:43.760 let's get started. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.960 This is a good episode. Oh and classic. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.240 I also would like all the listeners to know that 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.920 Radiator season has commenced. Oh yeah, that means starts right 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.720 or yes, yep, you got it. So if you hear 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:02.880 a banging, no you didn't. No, there we're fighting happening 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.520 at Lisa's apartment. That's always the comment. And I came 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.520 in in a switch and I immediately to put on 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.800 a brawl like it is steamy as fuck. And the bank, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.360 the banking's actually okay, it'll you know, but yeah, it's started. 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.240 It started to see me New York Weather. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.920 All right, Hey, so my audio is fucked because I 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.520 had buzzing wires and so we had to use backup audio. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.480 So if it doesn't sound as perfect as you usually 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.400 hear it, it is fully my fault. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:35.000 And it's just gonna sound like I'm normal talking to 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.760 Lisa and she's at the bottom of the ocean. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:38.480 No, I think it's gonna be fine. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.560 The wires buzz I just don't have the space or time, 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:49.680 but I'm looking at all these stuffed animals and cups like, yeah, 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.480 I just I don't know. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.960 We'll fix the buzz. We're gonna fix the buzz. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.600 Well, yeah, we'll be saying I moved some things around 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.400 so it won't happen again, I hope. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.800 And last thing, quick reminder that we do have new 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.719 merch up in the shop. Go to That's Messed Up 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.280 live dot com. Go to our shop link. You got 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:12.919 to get yourself a Lois Louise Louise shirt asap, a 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.639 perfect Christmas gift for yourself or another TMU fan in 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:25.480 your life. And so let's get going. Today's episode all right, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.480 Today the day is here. We are doing Desperate Season four, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:31.600 episode eighteen. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:33.879 We've been wanting to do this one. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.640 It is so funny to have this podcast because it's 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.480 like I always want to do these episodes, and we're 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.400 like five years in more and there's still episodes where 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.399 I'm like, how have we not done this? I'm obsessed 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.080 with this episode. I would put it in my top 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.280 twenty five. I think I can't believe we're doing it. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.639 It's my favorite Tommy in the Tommy universe. It is 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.080 like it's It gives me chills. This whole episode gives 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.520 me chills. I love it, and I cannot wait. 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:05.200 Do we call our listeners Tommy's Yes, the Tommies wait, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:05.879 I love that. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:12.600 Hi, Tommy's Yeah, the TMU Tommy's wait, the TMU Tommy's. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:13.520 I think that's it. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.520 That is it, And we can make merch that said hello. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.360 That's like a name tag that says hello, my name 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:20.160 is Tommy. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.520 Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.800 my god. I hope you guys like it. Okay, we'll see, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.960 we'll see if it sticks. Maybe it'll be our Christmas miracle. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.560 Guys weigh in if you want to be the TMU Tommy's. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.439 I think this could be it. This could be it, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:36.520 This could be it. 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:37.160 Oh my god. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.160 We can our Tommies, I can. I can make little 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.639 grids with all the Tommies I mean. And it'll also 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.679 be in honor of the person who's been tracking it 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:46.720 for all these years as well. 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:52.760 Yes, oh my god fully, But okay, So we open 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.960 on a very tense scene. An old lady in a 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.920 robe is like knocking frantically on an apartment door, going 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.000 open the door, honey, you can do it, like there's 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.359 a kid in there. As firemen Russian, she tells them 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.960 there's a kid trapped in there, and then they she 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.960 goes Mikey stand back, stand back, and that. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.439 Like got me confused. I was like, is this the 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.439 episode I was thinking of? But it is. So they 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:16.480 knock the door down. 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.720 They find food burning on the stove, so it's not 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.000 like it's a raging fire, but you know, and the 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.040 firemen are like, everything's clear, We're good. And then they 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.119 go and they find little Mikey and he's like curled 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.800 up in his pjs, huddling in a corner, and he's 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.000 covered in blood and they're like, the kid is injured. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.280 And then they find his mom, we think, in bed, 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.480 covered in blood and barely breathing. Aggressive. So then we 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.600 cut to the hospital where a doctor is filling in 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.520 Benson and Stabler. She's in critical condition, multiple subdural hematomas. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.400 She's in surgery, unclear she'll make it. Genital trauma shows 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.040 she was raped and sodomized, no fluids. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.119 I mean awful. Mikey is okay physically. 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.720 The blood on him was all his moms, but obviously 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.600 i'mtionally he's fucked. Benson is in her bieber Swoop era. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.280 She goes in to talk to Mikey. He may have 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.919 seen the attacks. She's like, how old are you? He 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.560 holds up six fingers. Did you see your mom get hurt? 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:14.960 She asks? He nods. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.760 He touches Olivia's badge, like, but he's not speaking, like 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.240 he's not speaking any words, and then Stabler grabs her, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.800 and Olivia is like, you know, maybe he'll open up 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:26.720 more when he sees his mom and can talk to her. 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.639 And Dunet done, the mom just died. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:33.080 Credits Early Seasons, they get to the fucking chase. I mean, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.160 like we're a minute, we're a minute of a cold 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.800 open and we're at the credits. Okay, so now very sad. 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:40.639 We're at the victims apartment and this kid is cute, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:41.439 the little Mikey. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:42.000 He's cute. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.879 At the victim's apartment, they can't find a handbag or 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:46.680 a wallet, so they think this is like a purp 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.240 who robbed her. But this guy was careful, no prince, 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.280 no seamen hair. It's like, I think their point is 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.199 like if you go into an apartment to rob and 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.000 then you decide to commit a sex crime. You're not 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.159 probably being careful to like clean up your fluids and 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.800 like you no not leave any evidence. You're probably a 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.440 sloppy criminal if you're doing something like that. And they're like, well, 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.880 it's a ground floor apartment with shitty locks. It looked 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.199 like he jacked open one of the windows with a screwdriver. 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.480 And then there's a little dexter type man there who's 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.040 breaking down all the blood spatter. 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:22.080 He's like, look, this is a tiny detail, but did 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.080 you notice that Stabler's tie was tucked into his button 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.040 down shirt. Wait into the shirt, like in the between 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.359 the third and fourth button from the top, his tie 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:34.320 is tucked in. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.920 I think that guys had never that he don't drip 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.160 on anything like I think guys do that if they're 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.639 doing something messy, Like maybe he thought it would like 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:45.760 since he's looking at the crime scene, like he tucks 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:46.160 it in. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.480 I just had never noticed that it looked a little sloppy. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:50.719 But I'm sure, yeah, you're right. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:52.880 It's like like, I don't know, I feel like it's 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.959 the way guys. It's the way that guys unbutton their 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.439 jacket when they sit down, but then they button it 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.760 back up when they stand up. That's like a guy 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.320 thing to do, like because you can't sit with your 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.640 button open shut. Yeah, it feels like there's all this 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.159 like weird suit like men's apparel etiquette that. 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.160 I don't really know very much about. But oh my god. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.399 You know how I was betrayed by my laundry woman 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.120 a few months ago, and she's fragrance when she shouldn't. Yes, 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.680 so my coffee girls like, hey, I'm gonna go get tailored. 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.120 I'm going to go to the end of the block. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.879 I go, don't go there. I think you'll get fucked. 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.000 And I go go to this place. I go, this 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.920 guy is legit, don't go to her. And then today 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.520 I went and got coffee and she goes, I should 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:38.240 have listened to you, and I go, yeah, oh yeah, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.080 Well she goes, she's really funny that I go, yeah, no, 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.399 she's very funny and personable. She's lost dozens of my socks, 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.159 and I continue to go, so, yeah, she's got a 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:49.320 flare for sure. 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:51.320 That kept us going back. 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.520 But oh man, personality is not going to take you 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:57.600 all the way. I guess when it's your loan dramat 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.680 you gotta have the socks. So you don't have to 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:03.960 have the socks. You can't just I just don't want 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.840 to be poisoned. And then that's true. The socks you 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.560 didn't even care about. No, just the poisoning. 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:14.480 Yeah, some of my best socks. Yeah. 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:17.399 Okay, So little Dexter guy is there and he's breaking 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:19.520 down the blood spatter. He's like, look, you can tell 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:21.680 from these patterns that he struck her twice with the 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:26.280 lamp and then I mean, awful fucking details headed your way, 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.640 a classic get ready to get sad. After the sexual assault, 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.800 he beat her even more, which was like pointless because 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:38.320 she was already unconscious. So all that information, plus the 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.520 fact that all the blows were like to her face 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.399 stablers like this seems personal. You know. This is like 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:46.640 where regular cops would come in and be like it's 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.960 a robbery gone bad, or like with an assault, but 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.359 like these guys are the pros and they're like, no, 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:53.920 this is like a rage attack of somebody who knew her. 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.600 So maybe Mikey slept through the assault. 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:00.960 Benson offers in a bit of wishful thinking, and then nope, unfortunately, 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:01.760 more sadness. 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:03.440 They find a peace stain in the hallway. 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.240 So they can tell that the kid just stood by 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.720 the doorway watching the attack happen and was so terrified 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.760 that he beat himself Back to the neighbor lady who 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:16.280 love her sounds like she smokes, eats cigarettes for breakfast, lunch, 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:20.000 and dinner. She is like, I was trying to help Mikey, 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.479 but I didn't hear anything, like the smoke woke me up. Like, 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.240 and she goes, oh, the woman's name was Dana. They 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.560 moved in a month ago. You go ask the landlord. 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:31.639 I bet his office in Midtown is a lot nicer 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.760 than this dump. So then at the landlord's office, this 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.200 guy shady laylord. He's like, yeah, her name's Dana maguire. 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.040 And then the guy is stonewalling them. They're like, okay, great, 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.480 give us her rental application, credit check, et cetera. 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.359 And he's like, oh, I don't have any of that. 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:48.800 I'm busy, blah blah blah. 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.520 And then Benson's like, cool, I actually work with somebody 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:56.480 who gets slumlords, like prosecute some lords and got the 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.600 last one to his punishment was living six months in 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:03.040 one of his units. And this breaks him. He immediately 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:04.920 admits this Montal was off the books. 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.520 He's like, it reminds you of the Aaron Brokovitch water 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.280 see now, or she's like, and those that water has 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:14.920 been brought in special for you from Hinkley. 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:15.200 Yeah. 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.800 Yeah, Aaron Brokovich clips have been showing up in my 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:21.520 feed and I watch There's no way I even watch 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:23.679 one less than three times in a row. They know, 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:25.760 it's just nice to see it. And you're like, yeah, 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.159 of course she won that oscar? Are you fucking kidding me? 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:31.639 They know what you like, Yeah, yeah, too wrong? What 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:34.960 is it? Too wrong? That's all you got wrong? Too 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:36.960 wrong food. Thanks for everything, Julie Numart. 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:41.440 No, no, it's a line. She goes, we got off 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.080 on the wrong foot, and she goes, that's what all 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:45.680 you have? Two wrong feet and fucking ugly shoes. 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:50.160 All right. 0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:54.600 So the guy's like, oh, I could never I'll tell 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:55.080 you everything. 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:57.280 He's like, look, this rot was off the books. 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.119 The mom paid for the woman paid for cash up 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:04.200 front for three months, and Stabler's like, give it up, 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:06.720 we need more info, or we'll tell the irs about 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.560 your little cash payment situation. And he's like, okay, okay, 0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:12.280 she showed me her id and I did memorize it, 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:15.439 like he knows exactly this woman what her ID was 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:17.879 address on her ID and it was the three hundred 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:20.159 block of Central Park West, and Benson clocks that and 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:23.240 it's like nice memory, asshole, and he's like, yeah, names 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.439 I don't care about, but I never forget a prime 0:26:25.520 --> 0:26:27.960 piece or real estate. So he clocked it because three 0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:30.800 hundred block of Central Park West is like pretty nice 0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:34.199 at the McGuire I would say almost every block of 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:37.120 Central Park West is very nice. At the McGuire residence 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.520 on Central Park West, this douchey guy opens the door 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:42.879 and he's like yeah, and they're like, we're looking for 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.840 Dana maguire and he's like, yeah, that's my wife. 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:47.440 And they're like have you seen her? When was the 0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.080 last time you saw her? And he's like five minutes ago. 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:54.119 She's inside feeding the baby, Like fuck off, dude. So 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:58.080 now we go inside and we see the real Dana 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:00.680 in a button down in a cardigan, looking like, you know, 0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:04.560 a white woman for Trumps spokesmodel. And she's like, oh 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:06.680 my god, so a dead woman was using my ID. 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:07.680 That's creepy. 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:10.520 And she goes, well, I was mugged on my way 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.000 home from mommy and me class and the guys. The 0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:16.199 husband's like in broad daylight on Columbus Avenue, no cops 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:18.560 in sight, and it's like he's just like throwing a 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:20.639 dig at the cops, like our cops supposed to be 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.919 on every block of New York City, like I don't know. 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.119 And he's like, they caught the mugger maxing out her 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.240 credit cards at me Sees. So the guy got six 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:31.520 months at Rikers. They go talk to him at Rikers, 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.080 we got the mugger, and he's like these fucking yuppie 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.639 moms with their strollers and diaper bags and yoga mats, 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:39.359 easy pickens, and it's like kind of funny. 0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:39.840 I mean, I don't know. 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.879 I don't want anybody to get mugged in front of 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:44.080 their kid, but it's just funny that he's like, yeah, 0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:45.879 I don't mug regular people, like I don't go to 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:46.520 bad neighborhoods. 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:47.320 I go to good neighborhoods. 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:49.200 I mugg the rich people who are just walking down 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:51.800 the street with too much shit in their hands. They 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.119 tell him if he tells them who who he sold 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.879 the ID to, they can talk to the DA and 0:27:57.920 --> 0:27:59.840 he can finish out his sentence in a halfway house. 0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:01.720 So he looks at the picture and he goes, yeah, yeah, 0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:03.959 I met her at a diner. She said she couldn't 0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.560 work because she had no ID. I felt sorry for her, 0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:08.919 And he's like, her real name is Jill, and so 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:12.560 she had a son named Tommy, and boom another Tommy. 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:13.400 Here's where we go. 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:18.800 And then Stabler tells Benson, Yeah, you know, like you 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:21.640 change your name if you're on the run from creditors 0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:25.240 or whatever, but to change your kid's name, you're running 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.680 from something bigger. So Benson gets a page on her beeper, 0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:31.760 which I don't really feel like I besides her and 0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:36.520 Cassidy struggling post sex to see who's beeper's beeping in 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:38.640 season whatever we just did season two. 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:40.400 Yeah, I don't know. 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.160 I don't really see Benson season four still with a beeper. 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:44.920 I mean, she moves on to like a palm pilot 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:47.280 pretty soon, I feel like. But anyway, Warner wants to 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:49.360 see them at the Morgue. So now we're at Melinda's house. 0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:52.160 She confirms the two blows to the head on Jill 0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:55.479 and puts the time of death between nine and eleven 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.440 PM the night before and the fire department didn't get 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:03.080 called till five am, so more darkness. Tommy was probably 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.480 just in that apartment watching her die for six hours, 0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:11.480 which is so fucking bleak. But Warner also notices that 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:15.760 Jill had scars on her like abdomen hip area from 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:19.080 a splenectomy, which is the removal of your spleen, and 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.080 she says she probably had Hodgkins disease as a child, 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:24.520 which would have been treated with chemo and would have 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.400 left her likely unable to have kids. So I ran 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:31.000 the DNA and twist. Jill and Tommy are not a match. 0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:36.440 So Jill is not his mom. Wow, done done. So 0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:40.240 now Benson and Stable are with Huang watching Tommy play 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:43.400 in the playroom for traumatized kids that they have, and 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:46.400 Huang is pitching, oh, maybe it was an adoption or 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:48.719 a kidnapping, et cetera. And they're like, none of that 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:51.960 really makes sense, Like there's no missing persons that matches him, Like, 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:55.480 we're not, you know. So she he shows them pictures 0:29:55.520 --> 0:29:59.120 that Tommy drew to express his feelings, and you know, surprise, surprise, 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.280 he drew the murder, and then he drew Olivia, someone 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:05.040 who he cares, who and identified her as someone who 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:05.920 cares about him. 0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:07.680 So there's a pick. 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.040 Of live, like a drawing of live in a mid 0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:12.480 length orange skirt which she would never wear. 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:14.280 But you can see he drew the badge. 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:17.160 So they're holding hands in the drawing, so obviously she 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:19.640 immediately imprinted on him in the hospital and they are 0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:20.240 best friends. 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:24.440 This is definitely classic. She has away with victims, you know, 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:26.200 it's it's verres. 0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:28.080 Yeah, drawn to her. 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:32.600 It's beautiful and she has a maternal vibe, you know, 0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:36.640 like so just related. But when I was in Paris, 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:40.800 I was walking along you know, the river towards towards 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:46.200 the Eiffel Tower. Yeah, there were two like red retrievers. 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:47.800 And only reason I know that this is my friend 0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:49.520 recently got one. It was the best dog I've ever 0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:51.760 met in my life. And one of them ran directly 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:54.200 to me and just got pet by me and then 0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:55.479 went away when he was done. 0:30:56.080 --> 0:30:58.120 Yeah. I think animals know they can trust you, for sure, 0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:00.120 I hope. So, I mean, you're the Olivia Bens and 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:01.680 of animals. But I eat them. 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:04.680 That's room what's bad. And I think they know that. 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:06.680 But I think they The. 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:08.479 Cow has never run towards you, A pig has never 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:10.720 run towards you. Me and the. 0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:14.880 Dogs have the same diet. We're all eating animals. Yeah, 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.440 never mind me. They're not judging. You're right, you're right, 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:17.800 You're right. 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:22.840 So liv goes to talk to Tommy in the traumatized child's 0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:26.080 room and she calls him Tommy and he's a little 0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.080 bit like shook, like how did you know my real name? 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:31.360 And she tells him she wants to help him, don't 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:34.400 be afraid, et cetera, et cetera. She asks him like, 0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:37.239 who do do you know your phone number? Who do 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:39.920 you call when there's a problem, And then he takes 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:44.320 her little flip phone and dials nine one one and uh. 0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:46.800 When she's like, oh, do you know your home phone number, 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.360 he throws the phone down, and so she asks like, 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:52.880 do you know any other numbers that you call in 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:56.600 an emergency? And he types this number in and Live 0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:58.680 walks back into the room with Stable and Wong and 0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:01.880 she's dialing the number and then she hangs up and goes, well, 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:08.040 it's the domestic violence hotline. So extremely the darkness keeps 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:11.040 starkening in this episode, like this fucking six year old 0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:14.440 Rosie doesn't know my phone number, Like this six year 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:19.360 old has memorized the domestic violence hotline number, like so 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:23.840 so dark. So at the DV hotline offices, I guess 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:27.240 they're talking to a woman who's like, oh, fuck, Jill Hoffman, 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:29.960 that bastard finally did it. Like she knows the whole story. 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:32.840 And this woman is a dick Wolf frequent flyer. Her 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:37.040 name is Michelle Hurst. Yeah, she's done four apps of SPU, 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:40.000 four of original recipe, a criminal intent sprinkled in there 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.719 for good measure. She's done episodes we've seen her in. 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:46.120 So she starts explaining that Jill's husband, Dan Hoffman, was 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.680 a violent son of a bitch. He isolated her, drove 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:52.080 her friends away. She had nowhere to go. She stayed 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.240 at one of their safe houses once for a few weeks, 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.120 but then she eventually went back to her husband in 0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:01.680 Rye because she couldn't leave her step son behind. She 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:03.880 loved that kid like he was her own and she 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:05.960 wanted to take Tommy to the shelter, but they can't 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.880 allow it. Like she's the stepmother, not that kids aren't 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:11.080 allowed on the shelter, but she's the stepmother. She has 0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:13.800 no legal rights to this kid, like she hasn't adopted 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:15.920 him or anything like she can't take him from his father. 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:18.520 So they told her to fight for legal custody, and 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:21.000 they even found her a pro bono attorney. So now 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:25.280 we're talking to Jill's lawyer, played by the actor Welker White. 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:29.680 She is married to another Law and Order guy, Damian Young, 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:34.200 who plays Hampton Trill in the episode or just Look 0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:35.880 Like One, which we've done at live shows. 0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:38.880 Ins Oh, oh my god. 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.600 And I feel like I'm going insane. But I feel 0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:44.400 like we met their daughter at one of our live shows, 0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:48.120 like we met at our Brooklyn show this past summer. 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:50.600 We met someone who's like both of my parents have 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:52.960 been on Law and Order, and I feel like these 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.880 are her parents. And she came with someone to the 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:57.880 show and I was like, oh my god, these I 0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:00.920 can't believe. I can't believe Hampton Trill is your dad 0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:03.640 or whatever. But please confirm if I have dementia, If 0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:05.920 if you're listening or you brought your friend, please let 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:08.520 me know. I'm almost positive, but it could have been. 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.719 She had two other parents who are doing it. 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:15.880 And I love this lawyer. I love this scene. I 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:18.320 think like I am kind of obsessed. 0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:21.640 Yeah, she's a badass lawyer. She's like, listen, I can 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.759 confirm that she's my client, but I can't say anything else. 0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:26.719 And then they're like, well, you know, we're just trying 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:28.760 to help Tommy, and she's like, well where is Tommy? 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:31.480 And she's like, are you sending that poor traumatized boy 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:33.840 back to his father? And they're like, unless you have 0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:36.440 good reasons why we shouldn't, And so she gives a 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:39.799 little background. She's like, Jill Mary Dan Hoffman two years ago, 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:44.200 and the abuse started soon after Tommy's mother, Kim, left 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:47.600 when Tommy was three. So if Tommy six, his mom 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:49.440 left when he was three, his dad got remarried to 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.520 Kim basically when he was four, and now it's been 0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:55.160 two years, so just for the timeline of the family, 0:34:55.800 --> 0:34:57.319 and he probably beat the shit out of her too. 0:34:57.360 --> 0:34:58.040 The lawyer says. 0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:02.000 Lawyers like Dan terrorized Tommy psychologically but never actually laid 0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:04.680 a hand on him. But Jill knew he would eventually 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:07.480 turn to Tommy and like hurt Tommy. They filed for 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.120 emergency custody, but she, the lawyer's like, I knew it 0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:13.200 was a long shot, and Benson goes you knew she'd lose. 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:16.080 You told her to take Tommy, And she goes, I'm 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:18.040 an officer of the court. If I hadbetted my client 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.440 in the commission of a felony, I'd be disbarred. But 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:24.839 she says it in such a like flat tone that's like, yeah, 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:26.799 I definitely told her to fucking run. Of course I 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:28.880 told her to run. I'm a human being, like I'm not, 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:32.279 you know, But yeah, she did that shit. So they're 0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:35.400 talking to the police department now in rough and tumble, Rye, 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:35.919 New York. 0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:38.759 Rye, New York is very close to where I grew up. 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:43.520 It's a very affluent, little like New York suburb, and 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:45.960 I used to work at a store that had a 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:47.600 store and Rye that I worked at a couple of times, 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:49.839 so I've spent a tiny bit of time there. The 0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:52.759 police chief is played by Adam Lefev, who we've talked 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:56.399 about as well another Dick Wolf universe standby. He's been 0:35:56.400 --> 0:36:00.600 in five episodes of SVU. I think he were in 0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:03.520 Atlanta with Rollins or something like that. But we've got 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:05.640 him and we've talked about him before. He has such 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:06.960 a face to me like he's been in a ton 0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:08.799 of stuff, and I think I only recognize him from 0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:11.360 all the svus he's been in. But he's telling Benson 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:14.200 and Stabler, you gotta be confused. Tommy's down in Florida 0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:16.680 with his stepmom, and this guy is president of the 0:36:16.760 --> 0:36:20.040 Dan Hoffman fan Club, nicest guy in the world, successful 0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:23.359 real toor sells houses to people escaping crime in your 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:26.319 big bad city or whatever. And then he calls his 0:36:26.400 --> 0:36:29.319 first wife, Kim, a tramp who ran away with another man. 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:32.480 And Dan has done so much to help this community, 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:36.520 Like there's just she's just like showing newspaper articles like 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:38.960 Jesse grabs the first newspaper you can see, and Dan 0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:42.080 Hoffman's like on the fucking cover for giving money to something. 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:45.080 So at the town paper, the woman at the paper 0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:46.960 is like, I've got tons of picks of Dan. He's 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:50.279 a major player and Rye and it's like small ass 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:54.319 town like major player and she's got She's like, I've 0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:56.760 got picks of Tommy and Jill. I even have picks 0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:58.600 of Kim, even though she'll never show her face in 0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:02.080 this town again. And now Live goes to talk to 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:07.120 Tommy like no one is like no one even questions 0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:08.080 where did this woman go? 0:37:08.200 --> 0:37:09.080 Is everything okay with her? 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.600 They're just like dumb slut, She better not show up 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:15.920 to any benefits around this town. Like but anyway, I 0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:17.960 guess that happens when you have like a charismatic man 0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:21.000 controlling the narrative. So now Live goes to talk to 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:23.200 Tommy again, and she's made him a book of pictures, 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:26.840 and he smiles when he sees one of himself playing soccer, 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:30.880 but then he instantly face drops sadness when he sees 0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:33.560 a picture of him with Jill. And then she shows 0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:36.120 him a picture of his mom, Kim, and he goes, 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:39.640 who is that? And he finally speaks, He finally talks. 0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:42.120 He goes, that's my mom. He has such a cute 0:37:42.120 --> 0:37:44.200 little voice, the best. 0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.120 Tommy, He's the cute way I love me. 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:49.239 And my dad says, she ran away. He said she 0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:51.839 didn't love us anymore, and then he goes, and then 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:53.960 Jill came and made me cookies and tucked me in 0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:56.879 every night, and then she went away, but she came 0:37:56.920 --> 0:38:00.240 back for me and they're like, but we ran away, 0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:03.080 and they're like, oh, from your dad, and he's like yeah. 0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:05.120 He's like, we were gonna get a new house far 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:08.120 away where my dad could never find us. But of 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.840 course the timing of television is that as Tommy's talking, 0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:14.799 we hear Tommy, Tommy, where's my son? And it's his 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.440 dad and Tommy's so scared. The second he hears his 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:21.440 dad's voice, he's like locks up, and Dan Hoffman has 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.880 barged into the precinct. He's freaking out, like give me, 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:28.040 where's my son? Like you're holding him like and this sous. 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:30.000 Crazy because I only thought about the movie Ransom in 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:31.440 this moment and then you did. 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:32.879 It give me back my son. 0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:37.279 Yeah, so he is because when that little boy in 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:39.879 Ransom Peace, when he sees the guy who really took him, 0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:41.680 like haunted me as a child. 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:42.520 Yeah. 0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:45.640 Oh, it's like the episode, isn't it the Jackman Herdy episode? 0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:46.040 Yep. 0:38:46.440 --> 0:38:48.640 Yeah, that's where my brain went right after and then 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:49.920 you said it it's like perfect. 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.480 So Dan Hoffman is played by Rob Estes, who I 0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:56.920 obviously clock immediately from Hollow's place, like classic Hattie, Like 0:38:57.000 --> 0:38:59.440 I was obsessed with this man as a youth, Like 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.839 I thought he was so hot on Melrose. I think 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.480 he had a relationship with Jane Josie Bassett who plays 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:06.920 a woman who drinks while she's pregnant in the in 0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:08.120 one of the episodes of SBU. 0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:12.239 So you know, no one can escape. But he is, 0:39:12.760 --> 0:39:13.960 you know, very handsome. 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:16.400 He's like a perfect casting for this, like handsome guy 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:21.480 like you know, good talker and then tell this lunatic crystal. 0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:28.880 Blue like Caribbean water like eyes. But he plays he 0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:29.640 is so hot. 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:31.480 But he plays this role so well because I am 0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:35.000 terrified immediately. I hate him instantly, and I'm not into 0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:38.000 it at all, Like, yeah, I don't know how everyone 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.279 else has fallen for the act because I certainly am not. 0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:42.239 And you're detective. 0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:44.880 You're a detective head of police at Rye and you 0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:46.120 can't tell this as a freak. 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.520 You shouldn't have that job. But cops beat their wives whatever, So. 0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:54.400 Yeah, men would only clock this man as aspirational, like 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:56.960 they would may be like look at this guy, hot wife, 0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:00.719 like big house, successful job, whatever, Like they would not 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.160 be like they're sitting behind those eyes that says that 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:06.520 he uh likes to control people and beat them. 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:09.120 But anyway, we're giving away, we're giving away too much. 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:11.759 As if you don't know where this is going, if 0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:14.399 you don't listen to if you don't even know this episode. 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:18.120 So Benson tries to tell this lunatic dad like stop it, 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.239 like leave, like Tommy doesn't have to go with him, 0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:22.520 and then Stabler comes in to be like, unfortunately, yes 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:25.399 he does. Tommy has been medically cleared and released into 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:28.040 the custody of his father. This is a hole in 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:31.520 the episode for me, Like, how would that be. Oh well, 0:40:31.520 --> 0:40:33.359 wait till the real crime. Why don't you wait till 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:34.360 that and then maybe. 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:39.000 Oh god, then you'll know because like medically cleared. 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:42.720 Sure, physically, but like emotionally, there's no way we've already 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:43.839 done a full work up on him. 0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:45.120 There's no way we haven't deterurned. 0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:47.360 Like no one has gone an answer whether that scared 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:51.600 of his dad, Like no one has gotten like like 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:53.760 an answer on how much he saw of the crime. 0:40:53.840 --> 0:40:55.160 Like I just don't think there'd be any way that 0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:56.719 they're like, yep, he can go home with his dad now. 0:40:56.760 --> 0:40:59.560 I feel like there would be some kind of foster 0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:03.239 cared temporary housing that would happen. But relative, you could 0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:04.839 have another relative that could take him in. 0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:09.000 But you're also right, he did he himself, which means 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:10.879 he did see it. Which means they would have asked 0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:12.120 some questions. 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:14.880 Right, like and yeah, it's a big hole for me 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:16.600 that like it's like, nope, let's just let him go 0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:19.600 home with a guy who because whenever a woman is killed, 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.960 the husband or the spouse or the partner or whatever 0:41:22.160 --> 0:41:24.480 is unmanac. So it's like, you're not going to just 0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:26.400 let him go home with the guy who maybe did it. 0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.560 I so wait for how mad you're going to be 0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:35.440 when I'm. 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:37.560 I'm pre depressed just thinking about it. Okay. 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:41.160 So it's very terrifying the scene because this little boy 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:45.480 is so good. He is like frozen, and the dad 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:48.240 picks him up and he's just like in his dad's arms, 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:50.799 but his eyes you can tell he's like, oh my god, 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:55.480 oh my god, like communicating to Olivia basically like help me, 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:58.759 like and the dad's like, thank god, I found you, 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:01.839 and like takes him away. And I have to tell you, 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:04.120 I obviously looked up Tommy to see what he was 0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:05.439 up to, because I think he's such a good little 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:08.840 child actor. He did quit the business sadly, and he 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:14.480 is now a professional bodybuilder. Wow owns a gym in Valencia, California. 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.919 So a lot if you want to see this little 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.880 kid swoll as fuck. He's got the exact same fucking 0:42:20.920 --> 0:42:25.239 base just as an adult like jacked jack jacked, like 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:27.240 at a competition with Teresa Judice. 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:29.520 You need to do real but you need to send 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:32.399 me this. But also, if you guys want to see 0:42:32.440 --> 0:42:34.960 us take a trip down there for a personal workout 0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:39.920 with baby Tommy, maybe you guys should start a you know, 0:42:40.400 --> 0:42:41.120 a little. 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:42.360 Know, let's do a little campaign. 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:46.799 Let's do a campaign and then I make exactly right 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:47.440 pay for it. 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:49.640 But I think we need to go to Valencia. 0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:52.479 Yeah, and he just like teaches us how to lift. 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:54.319 I mean, I kind of love it. I'm trying to 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:54.759 get into that. 0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:55.200 Okay. 0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.839 So so his name is Max Weinstein, and I'm sad 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:00.960 he left acting because oh my god, little Tommy what 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:01.600 a cutie. 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.560 But and like, oh my god, he was just so cute. 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:08.439 But top of BAC three and Cabot's telling them, Okay, listen, 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:10.880 Dan Hoffman's lawyer is threatening to sue you guys for 0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:14.080 withholding the information about Tommy's whereabouts and causing undue stress, 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:17.280 and Stabler's like stress, my ass, he didn't even follow 0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:21.040 a missing person's report and Benson's like, we delayed notification 0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:22.960 by a couple of hours, Like it was not like 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:25.719 we had him for days, you know, And Alex is like, 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:28.000 that's not the point. You were playing that fast and 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:30.320 loose and you got busted. And it's like Alex, and 0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:33.839 he wasn't even that fast. Yeah, you pay play fast 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:38.560 and loose all the time. And also why is like 0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:41.560 I don't understand, Like I feel like you get taken 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:44.200 away from your parent if you're a suspect in a murder, 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:50.879 you just do like there's and there's no like until 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.720 you've confirmed his alibi. He's a suspect in the murder, 0:43:53.840 --> 0:43:55.520 Like so this doesn't make sense to me. But anyway, 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:57.960 now the boy is in a custody of a killer, 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.960 they're saying, and Cabot's like a lleged killer. And then 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:02.960 she's got you guys really have nothing like it could 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:06.160 have been a burglary and lives like he was about 0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:07.839 to tell me everything when the dad barged in. 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:09.160 We've got to reinterview him. 0:44:09.520 --> 0:44:12.520 And Hoffman's attorney is going to fight it, and Craigan's like, well, 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:14.560 then court order it. He's a material witness to a 0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:18.040 murder and Cabot's like, I'll try, but some hard evidence 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:20.760 on the murder would be super. So they go speak 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:23.960 to Hoffman and they're kissing his ass like apologies, like 0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:27.800 for the misunderstanding about Tommy and we're so sorry about 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:30.640 your wife and blah blah blah, and they're asking about 0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:34.040 Tommy and Hoffman's like, yeah, I a psychologist told me 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.080 that Tommy will make a full recovery. And it's like, yeah, sure, 0:44:37.120 --> 0:44:39.760 he pissed himself watching his stepmom get raped and murdered 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:42.000 and then sat there watching her die for six hours, 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:44.600 like he's gonna be fine. What therapist would ever just be? Like, 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:46.279 I can tell you right now he's gonna make a 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.279 full recovery. Like you've barely spoken to him, and you're like, 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:54.400 he's all good still. Stabler's like that's great news, great, great, 0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:56.080 and then they're you know, they're playing their little games 0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:58.719 with him. Benson asked to talk to Tommy again, and 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.759 he's like no, like like I'm not gonna let that 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.600 you guys like traumatize him again. And so obviously after 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:06.520 that they dropped the nice cop act and they're like, 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.040 you didn't even report your son missing. You told everyone 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:11.520 she was in Florida, and he's like, I lied to 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:15.000 protect Jill so everyone wouldn't find out how emotionally unstable 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.880 she was. But you let your son go off with 0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:19.360 an emotionally unstable woman. 0:45:19.160 --> 0:45:20.640 For a month, Okay. 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:24.160 Yeah, he was afraid of going to the cops that 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:27.000 that would set her off, and she's always come back before, 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:29.160 and so he waited. That's his excuse that he was 0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:31.719 just waiting for her to come back. So they asked 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:33.480 for his alibi for the murder, and he goes, well, 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:37.000 I was in the city at a realtor's association dinner 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.520 with five hundred colleagues, and they can all confirm each 0:45:40.800 --> 0:45:43.040 every single one of them saw me and fed me 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:45.760 a shrimp with their own fork, and they can confirm 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:47.920 that I was there. So they go to speak to 0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.360 a realtor who allegedly sat next to him at the dinner, 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:54.359 and she's like, yeah, he was bored, so he went 0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:55.960 to the bar. He promised me a dance, but he 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:58.040 never made it back to the table. I thought he 0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:00.640 stood me up, but he came back, and I was 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.319 jealous because his clothes were all sweaty and messed up, 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.279 and I wish he'd gotten sweaty and disheveled with her 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:08.840 like that's basically her vibe. It's like he looked like 0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.000 shit and I knew he fucked somebody in like a closet, 0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:13.120 and I wish it was me. So it was around 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:15.239 eleven when he came back, and she remembered because that's 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:18.319 when she calls the babysitter. So a single mom, I guess, 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:20.680 trying to fuck at a real estate dinner, go queen. 0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:26.080 So Benson realizes that, oh, he absolutely had time to 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.560 sneak out and do this murder. But what about the blood, 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:32.040 Like he would have been covered in blood, like from 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:35.040 the blood spatter, like this was a very violent crime. 0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:38.880 And Stabler goes, coveralls worked good enough for OJ. So 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:41.360 we just explained that away, that this man brought coveralls 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:43.400 with him to his real estate dinner, he put them on, 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:45.680 he murdered, he got rid of the coveralls because he's 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:47.520 not wearing he's not bloody when he gets back to 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:52.120 the dinner. So this is a week alibi. Maybe Cabot 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:54.760 can use it, they think. So now we're in judges 0:46:54.880 --> 0:46:58.799 chambers and it's Cabot with Judge Alan Riddner and He's 0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:00.640 played by Harvey Atkin, and we've seen him a lot 0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:02.680 of times. He's been in eighteen episodes of SVU, A 0:47:02.680 --> 0:47:05.200 lot of good ones that we've covered. He's got kind 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:08.279 of like a mustache and like around the head hair, 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:09.760 like bozo hair or whatever. 0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:14.239 I would call him no nonsense. 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:19.920 Yes, he's very no nonsense, like he annoyed. He and 0:47:19.960 --> 0:47:22.600 Petrowski probably like get a drink and talk shit about 0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:25.520 Cabot all the time, like she's always trying to bend it. 0:47:25.760 --> 0:47:26.560 Yeah. 0:47:26.760 --> 0:47:30.600 So also in the room I completely forgot until this 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:36.719 rewatch is Sandra Bernhard Icon playing Dan Hoffman's lawyer and 0:47:37.360 --> 0:47:37.960 the judging. 0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:40.600 I love her. I love her, obsessed with her. How 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:42.359 do they not have her back? 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.040 She's like perfect in this role, like a ruthless defense 0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:46.120 attorney is perfect. 0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:50.320 She Yeah, I really liked her in this part. She's great. 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:54.960 The judge is saying that the child is too traumatized 0:47:54.960 --> 0:47:57.880 and won't be interviewed until after he's undergone a psych evaluation, 0:47:58.080 --> 0:48:01.000 and Cabot offers Swung. They have Objeck to Huang because 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:03.200 he works for the cops, as if Huang doesn't do 0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:07.839 thousands of child evaluations like every year that get entered 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:08.359 into court. 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:09.480 But whatever. 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:12.680 Hoffman's like, I've already hired another psychiatrist to evaluate Tommy, 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:14.520 Like why does he have to have two? And the 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:17.719 judge like buys it, and Cabot's like, okay, well, can 0:48:17.760 --> 0:48:19.799 we at least put Tommy in foster care until after 0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:22.680 the evaluation. He's an eyewitness to a murder that his 0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:26.560 father may have committed, and sam dra Bernhard aka Priscilla 0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.560 Cheney says they have no evidence of that, and Cabot 0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:31.480 points out that his alibi is shaky and there's a 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:35.719 history of domestic violence. Cheney argues that Jill was unstable 0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:38.040 and flew off the handle because Hoffman wanted a divorce 0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:41.239 and took the boy as an act of retaliation. The 0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:44.200 judge says the child will remain in the father's custody 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:49.279 with like no reasoning, Like there's definitely reasonable doubt here. 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:53.120 You're just like taking Sandra Bernhardt's word that this guy's good, 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:54.640 Like it's crazy. 0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:59.839 Him not Like reporting his son missing is like really 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:04.520 substantial evidence to me. Yeah, Like that is a clue 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:07.280 And I don't know why that's being ignored by the courts, 0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:07.920 where it's like. 0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:11.799 He's acting like he cares, but he didn't care for 0:49:11.920 --> 0:49:12.680 over a month. 0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:17.439 Yeah, yeah, and like we find out later, like it's 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:20.480 very easy to confirm some of the DV claims people 0:49:21.040 --> 0:49:24.960 neighbors know, you know what I mean. Like, so I 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:27.480 don't know, I'm just kind of like it's a loose 0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:31.400 police work episode, but I think it also goes to 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:38.600 the premise that handsome, successful white men can convince people 0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:41.919 to do a lot of things there, that they are 0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:44.200 different people than who they say they are, and you know, 0:49:44.320 --> 0:49:46.040 like they get what they want a lot of the time. 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:48.920 So we definitely talked about that. We've seen that before. 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:53.000 So I'm sad that he's making Tommy stay with the dad. 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:57.800 Cheney goes to Cabot, Dan is a kind gentleman and 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:01.000 capable of violence, How can I convince you? And Cabbit 0:50:01.080 --> 0:50:03.840 goes let the police interview him. So now we're in 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:08.320 wood room blinds, it's the cops and Cheney and Hoffman, 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:12.520 and Stabler goes, uh, what about this forty five minute 0:50:12.560 --> 0:50:14.759 gap in your alibi? Like, and he goes, it was 0:50:14.800 --> 0:50:17.040 a boring rubber chicken dinner, so I ran to a 0:50:17.040 --> 0:50:19.200 bar for a drink, and he goes, they go, well, 0:50:19.200 --> 0:50:19.880 the bar, get. 0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:22.960 Drunk there, Like I don't understand, like if you're to 0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:25.080 get drunk, Like that's the thing they keep saying as 0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:27.640 an answer for everything, but all his answers are terrible. 0:50:28.000 --> 0:50:30.240 Yeah, like none of them are good or work. 0:50:30.520 --> 0:50:33.840 So right, was it a dry real estate association dinner 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:37.480 because otherwise these yeah, exactly. 0:50:37.920 --> 0:50:41.560 Or the hoteler, they're like, where this conference is at? 0:50:41.640 --> 0:50:44.280 Probably at a bar, Like it just doesn't make sense. 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:46.080 You'd run out to a random bar. I don't. 0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:48.160 Yeah, you go to a bar after you don't go 0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:49.879 to a bar in the middle of it, like when 0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:51.560 there's an open bar at your fingertips. 0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:54.760 I mean yes, anyway, So. 0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:57.120 He's like, they're like, oh, really you were at the bar. 0:50:57.480 --> 0:50:59.600 The bartender doesn't remember you. And he's like the police 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:01.840 was past, and he's like he has an excuse for everything. 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:03.279 But like you said, they're not really good. 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:05.839 And they're like, well, you were a five minute cab 0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:08.839 ride from Jill's like where she got murdered. So if 0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:10.880 and he goes, if I had known where she was, 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:13.160 I would have gone and convinced them to come back home. 0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:15.640 And they're like, I thought you wanted a divorce, and 0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:17.799 he's like, I wanted my son back, and they're like, 0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:19.839 you got an answer for everything. I'm not buying this 0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:23.040 loving father act. Tommy is terrified of you, and he's like, 0:51:23.120 --> 0:51:25.319 Tommy is everything to me. I would die for him. 0:51:25.680 --> 0:51:27.879 And they're like, he almost died for you. You killed 0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:29.719 Jill and left him alone in that apartment, and if 0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:33.080 firefighters hadn't responded so fast, you'd be burying him along 0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:36.000 with Jill. And seriously, like why did he leave the 0:51:36.040 --> 0:51:39.320 son behind? Like why would you leave your son behind? 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:39.719 After that? 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:42.880 Do you think that his son that he knew his 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:44.839 son saw it? Or do you think he his son 0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:49.240 was sleeping. He doesn't know that Tommy saw, does he. 0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:50.960 No? 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:54.400 But I feel like you would grab your son so 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:55.080 that none. 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:57.600 Else would be no, because then it would be obvious 0:51:57.640 --> 0:51:58.319 that it was him. 0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:00.239 And then he kidnapped his then he took his on 0:52:01.840 --> 0:52:02.600 because but he. 0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:06.600 Knew that everyone he told him they were in Florida. Yeah, 0:52:06.960 --> 0:52:08.800 he couldn't have done. He had to leave him. You 0:52:08.840 --> 0:52:11.080 should have turned the stove off, but that would have 0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:11.719 been a clue to. 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:13.880 I don't know, like who turned the stove on? Was 0:52:13.920 --> 0:52:14.560 it no? 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:17.080 I bet his mom was cooking and then he burst 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:18.160 in murdered her. 0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:21.920 Yeah, thinking that, Oh, I thought he did it in 0:52:21.960 --> 0:52:24.160 this in sleep because it was like nine to eleve. 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:26.720 It happened at like ten o'clock at night or like remember. 0:52:27.120 --> 0:52:28.040 But but my. 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:30.239 Thing, well, we find this out later. But she she 0:52:30.239 --> 0:52:33.239 has a night job. Yeah, she could have been like 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:33.960 cooking dinner. 0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:34.560 I don't know. 0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:37.000 I don't know me because I don't think Tommy would 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:37.720 have tried to cook. 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:38.399 No, you're right. 0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:42.080 He I thought like I thought, oh, grab her, grab him, 0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:45.560 and when she gets found be like, yeah, I didn't 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:46.120 know where she was. 0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:46.839 She ran off. 0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:49.040 But there's too many witnesses that would have said, like, oh, no, 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:51.279 he's been living at this apartment with her, and he was. 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:53.320 He had to go back to this party for his alibi. 0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:56.920 That's true, that's true. You're right. Could he could not 0:52:57.000 --> 0:52:58.839 have grabbed him, so he just left him there too? 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:01.400 Fixed out you're a DV. 0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:04.400 If you're a domestic abuser, you don't care about it, 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:05.520 like you're a bad person. 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:08.840 Yeah, but he sees people as his property, so I 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.359 want to write it and take his property back with him. 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:12.600 But you're right, like that would have not. 0:53:12.800 --> 0:53:15.120 That would have absolutely that would have serviced him and 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:16.440 then him get him first. 0:53:16.800 --> 0:53:20.040 Yes, yeah, yep, yep, yeah, he would have gotten busted. 0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:20.399 You're right. 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:22.320 I didn't even think that threw all the way. Okay, 0:53:22.800 --> 0:53:26.279 So Benson is like getting to him. She's like in 0:53:26.360 --> 0:53:28.640 his face, like I'm not buying your loving dad act, 0:53:28.680 --> 0:53:31.040 like I see right fucking through you. And he looks 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:33.040 at her and goes, you wouldn't be talking to me 0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:35.120 like that if you didn't have a badge and a gun. 0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:38.160 And that's where you get a little crack, you get 0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:40.919 a little track. Yeah, because I would say so far, 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:46.680 this actor like really plays it like he doesn't give 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:49.279 any little bit of psycho away like some of the 0:53:49.320 --> 0:53:51.239 other guys will, like there'll be a look or like 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:53.920 some kind of comment or whatever where they'll you'll be like, oh, 0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:56.400 there he is, and like until now this is like 0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:59.520 what we see, you know, like this is the Yeah. 0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:01.520 I wonder how much my opinion is because I've seen 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:05.040 this episode no less than thirty five times. Oh, but 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:08.680 he's chilling every time. To me, I'm scared of him instantly. 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:11.960 But this, to me, it's like a clue and it's 0:54:12.000 --> 0:54:14.360 like why because you beat the shit out of women obviously. 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:17.920 Yeah, yeah, and he wouldn't have said that to Stabler. 0:54:17.960 --> 0:54:19.719 Stabler was in his face giving him shit, you know, 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:21.880 like he yea yeah, this man. 0:54:21.920 --> 0:54:25.840 Sin is shin chang. She more has satisfaction that she 0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:29.680 made him cry, loves getting underneath these guy's skin. She can't. 0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:31.399 You have a fucking gun and I'll kill you. Get 0:54:31.440 --> 0:54:31.920 away from me. 0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:36.320 So outside in the hallway, Benson is pointing out to Stabler, 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:39.120 notice how this guy never says Jill or Tommy, although 0:54:39.160 --> 0:54:41.160 he did say Tommy quite a few times, but he 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:43.919 always says my wife, my son. He thinks of them 0:54:43.960 --> 0:54:46.879 as possessions, not people, which we said it's very two 0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:53.200 seconds ago. Yes, yes, so true family annihilator. Anyway, Munch 0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:58.160 has some info and he's like, listen, Jill, open your account. 0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:00.720 Can you imagine you're the type of person in where 0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:03.320 we're like, oh, yeah, the guy who would family annihilate, 0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:06.520 Like you have to rethink your life. 0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:10.160 You have to be just a little yeah, where we. 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:12.279 Would not be surprised if you truly murdered a whole 0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:14.640 family Like Eu, You're. 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:17.279 Like that sucks, Yeah, someone thought that of me. That 0:55:17.320 --> 0:55:18.080 would be chilling. 0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:21.120 Yeah, Idan, We're like, she seems like someone who would 0:55:21.200 --> 0:55:22.680 slash and murder her whole family. 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:24.520 I'd be like, geez, I must. 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:28.279 Suck, like yeah, oh my god. But he has no 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:30.960 self awareness. He can't look any word like that anyway. 0:55:31.680 --> 0:55:34.399 So Munch is like, listen, I got some info. Jill 0:55:34.440 --> 0:55:37.359 opened a bank account as Dana Maguire and deposited some 0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:41.400 paychecks from JAG Enterprises. And it turns out she was 0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:45.279 working as an entertainer at Benny's topless on twelve. So 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:48.960 at Bennie's, there's we're talking to a dancer. She's like, listen, 0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:51.280 Jill was sweet, but she was a shitty dancer. 0:55:51.840 --> 0:55:53.759 Listen. She looked like Susie Homemaker. 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:56.600 So all these commuters that were on their way back 0:55:56.600 --> 0:55:58.920 to the burbs, she gave them boners. You know, they 0:55:58.960 --> 0:56:00.839 love it, they felt. They said it was like having 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:03.879 June Cleaver give him a lap dance. So not sure 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:06.040 why she quit, but she freaked out a week ago 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:07.680 when she saw a guy in the crowd that she 0:56:07.760 --> 0:56:09.680 knew from the town she used to live in. And 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:12.440 then a couple of days later she was gone. So 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:14.800 she goes it was a week ago Tuesday. I remember 0:56:14.840 --> 0:56:17.120 because that was the night I introduced the cockatoo into 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:17.520 my act. 0:56:17.719 --> 0:56:18.320 So funny. 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.640 So where the fuck are the writers coming up with this? 0:56:20.800 --> 0:56:23.000 Did somebody just like have a cockatoo and they're like, 0:56:23.080 --> 0:56:24.839 let's give the cockatoo to the dancer. 0:56:24.640 --> 0:56:26.840 Like or they went to a strip club that weekend 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:29.480 for someone's bachelor party and saw cockatoon and saw it. 0:56:29.600 --> 0:56:31.879 Got it. Yeah, It's like. 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:34.200 To have animals on set is hard. You have to 0:56:34.239 --> 0:56:35.880 have a wrangler, Like, it is hard to have an 0:56:35.880 --> 0:56:37.799 animal on set. So it's like just to have this 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:40.279 cockatoo line. They've got a wrangler on set that day, 0:56:40.400 --> 0:56:42.120 Like it's so crazy. 0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:45.120 I love the way they spend money, God bless them. 0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:48.200 The cockatoo line really made me laugh in this like 0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:49.680 really sad episode. 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:53.240 So Stabler like when they go, she goes, I remember 0:56:53.239 --> 0:56:54.600 what night it was because that was the night I 0:56:54.640 --> 0:56:58.560 introduced the cockatoo into my act. Stabler makes a face like, yeah, sure, 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.920 cockatoo fair enough. It's such a funny face like, yeah, 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:03.880 that makes sense. I guess if you have a cockatoo 0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:06.319 in your act. And then the dancer as they're leaving goes, hey, 0:57:06.320 --> 0:57:09.160 guys want you nail the prick, like they like, you know, 0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:13.000 she's like probably no stranger to men being shitty. This woman, 0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:15.600 it feels like, so she's like, get whoever fucking killed 0:57:15.600 --> 0:57:19.880 the sport innocent woman? So they find out and meanwhile, 0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:22.240 notice that like nobody at her work is like she's 0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:25.360 emotionally unstable and crazy and anything like that. 0:57:25.480 --> 0:57:27.720 You know, like, yeah, they would know. 0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:32.200 So they find out who the guy is that she saw, 0:57:32.240 --> 0:57:34.400 and it's somebody named but like they go through credit 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:36.439 card receipts at the place or whatever, and they find 0:57:36.480 --> 0:57:38.800 out that this guy's name is Mike Rizzo, and he 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:41.240 spends a lot of time at Benny's topless, and he's 0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:43.000 begging them please don't tell my wife. 0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:46.080 She thinks I work a lot of overtime, fucking loser. 0:57:46.560 --> 0:57:49.600 And then he says, yeah, I saw this stripper who 0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:53.320 looked like a dead ringer for Dan's wife, So I 0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:54.400 called him on my way home. 0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:55.800 I thought he'd get a kick out of it. 0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:58.040 I mean, I swear you put her in an apron 0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:00.560 baking cookies and half the town would swear it was Jill. 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:02.520 So now they're filling in Cabot. 0:58:02.600 --> 0:58:07.800 The man are so clueless. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, I can't. 0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:09.040 Oh my god. 0:58:09.360 --> 0:58:12.280 Okay, So now they're filling in cab You know this 0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:14.040 guy well enough to call him on your way home 0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:15.320 and tell him I think I saw a stripper that 0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:16.480 looks like you're wife, But you don't know that his 0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:18.480 wife's in Florida with the kid for a month, Like 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:22.240 I don't whatever. So now they're filling in Cabot. They're like, listen, 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:23.919 he could have gone to the club, followed her home. 0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:26.000 His alibi is a massive hole in it. No one 0:58:26.000 --> 0:58:28.040 remembers seeing him at the dinner dance. They keep calling 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:31.560 it for a full forty five minutes and Gabbat. Gabbott 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:34.000 says it's enough for an arrest, but they may not 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:36.000 make it past the grand jury. This guy has everyone 0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:38.800 fooled with his father of the Year act. He's handsome, charismatic, 0:58:38.840 --> 0:58:42.120 he's a grieving widow now, and Cabot goes, I can 0:58:42.160 --> 0:58:45.920 do a silent indictment without arresting him. I feel like 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:47.760 we've seen one of these before, but this is like 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:48.560 kind of the first time. 0:58:48.600 --> 0:58:49.280 I'm getting it. 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:52.320 Basically, you can present the facts to the grand jury 0:58:52.360 --> 0:58:54.720 as part of an investigation, in which case you're not 0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:57.880 obligated to notify Hoffmann, and then he can't testify on 0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:00.400 his own behalf. So she's like, I'll do it in 0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:01.880 the morning and then you can pick him up. It's 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:03.720 a little it sounds like it's a little bit like 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:07.680 it is legal, but it's like a little bit of 0:59:07.720 --> 0:59:10.680 a shady move or something like a loop holy type 0:59:10.720 --> 0:59:13.480 of thing. So they pull up to his like mansion 0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:16.200 and Rye and Olivia starts talking to Tommy, who's playing soccer. 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:18.280 Hoffman comes out and is like, I'm gonna file a 0:59:18.320 --> 0:59:20.800 straight restraining order against you and sue you for harassment, 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:23.680 and then they arrest Hoffman while Benson comforts Tommy. 0:59:24.200 --> 0:59:26.000 So now top of the final act. 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:31.040 In court, Hoffman pleads not guilty and Cabot requests hermand 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:34.080 Yeah you know, Sandra Bernard is like, the client is 0:59:34.120 --> 0:59:36.840 a community leader with no record and a sole caretaker 0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:39.320 of his son, and Cabbot goes, well, he wouldn't be 0:59:39.320 --> 0:59:41.320 a single parent if he didn't kill his wife. 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.160 And judge, which I love that. 0:59:43.400 --> 0:59:47.040 I love a little fucking shady dig and control yourself, 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:49.200 miss Cabot, and then he sets fail at one hundred 0:59:49.400 --> 0:59:51.960 k okay, So one hundred thousand, which the guy will 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:56.120 get in has in his pocket probably. Cheney requests a 0:59:56.240 --> 0:59:59.440 speedy trial and throws shade at Cabot for doing her 0:59:59.440 --> 1:00:04.680 little grand jury maneuver, this little silent like silent jury thing. 1:00:05.320 --> 1:00:08.520 So she starts explaining herself, and the judge is like, Babe, 1:00:08.560 --> 1:00:10.600 I know the law, and I also know your reputation 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.440 for doing whatever the fuck you want, so and then 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:16.680 Cabot tells the judge, you said the child's mental health 1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:18.920 was hanging in the balance. We didn't want to traumatize 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:21.960 him more by having his dad arrested prematurely. And then 1:00:22.080 --> 1:00:26.040 Cheney emotions to exclude anyone who Jill Hoffman told about 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:29.920 the abuse, and Cabot is arguing that when she spoke 1:00:30.000 --> 1:00:33.240 to a DV center staff, she was distraught and it 1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:36.000 would have counted as an emotional utterance. But Cheney argues, 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.560 it violates this fucking asshole's right to confront and cross 1:00:39.560 --> 1:00:42.880 examine his accuser and it's prejudicial. And the judge, who 1:00:42.960 --> 1:00:46.480 clearly hates Cabot and like loves domestic violence, grants the 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:51.000 motion like he's just like, it's so insane that you're 1:00:51.120 --> 1:00:55.160 not you can murder someone, so that you can't use 1:00:55.280 --> 1:00:58.240 anything that they say have told anybody, because then you 1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:00.000 don't have a right to confront your accuser because you're 1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:03.080 accuser is dead because you've killed them. Like what the 1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:06.520 fuck is that law? So anyway, at the precinct, Cabot 1:01:06.560 --> 1:01:07.680 is like, Okay, well we're fucked. 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:08.240 We have nothing. 1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:10.480 Cabot's like, they're just going to argue she was killed 1:01:10.480 --> 1:01:12.560 in a burglary home invasion. She was living in a 1:01:12.560 --> 1:01:15.200 bad neighborhood. She was working as a stripper, and I 1:01:15.560 --> 1:01:17.760 do kind of wonder who was watching Tommy during the shifts, 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:21.760 Maybe that old lady neighbor. Anyway, Olivia says, Tommy's testimony 1:01:22.040 --> 1:01:24.840 will put him away. I know I can get him 1:01:24.880 --> 1:01:27.600 to tell me what happened. And they're like, well, Tommy's 1:01:27.640 --> 1:01:29.720 been in foster care. Let's send Olivia to talk to him. 1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:31.600 And it's like, no, the judge made an order that 1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:34.560 no one can talk to Tommy. And even if Tommy 1:01:34.600 --> 1:01:37.800 says his dad killed Jill, the statement's going to get 1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:40.560 thrown out because of the judge's order. I don't get 1:01:40.680 --> 1:01:46.560 where is the where is the PsychEval from this guy's psychiatrist? 1:01:46.600 --> 1:01:48.120 I mean, I know it's probably going to be filled 1:01:48.120 --> 1:01:53.600 with lies anyway, but why hasn't it happened yet? Like, also, 1:01:54.240 --> 1:01:57.560 I don't think the court would allow somebody's privately hired 1:01:57.600 --> 1:01:59.960 psychiatrists to be the one doing the evaluation. 1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:02.160 No, I feel like it has to be wong. 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:06.280 But I think this is what it's like when you're 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:08.480 an abuse fixed like I think they are. 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:12.240 You know, that's kind of the point of the show too. Yeah, 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:13.200 for sure, for sure. 1:02:13.880 --> 1:02:18.000 So they could subpoena Tommy, but it's a big gamble 1:02:18.000 --> 1:02:20.160 to put a traumatized child on the stand with like 1:02:20.320 --> 1:02:22.520 no prep and this, and also his dad might have 1:02:22.560 --> 1:02:25.040 coached him to say a stranger did it, Like yeah, 1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:27.360 I'll fucking kill you if you say that I did it, 1:02:27.400 --> 1:02:31.000 you know. So what about Kim Hoffman, Tommy's mom, She 1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:33.840 has rights to talk to him, And Stabler said, well, 1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:35.760 she either fell into a black hole or he murdered 1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:38.760 her ass too. So she's got no activity on her 1:02:38.760 --> 1:02:41.840 Social Security, no tax returns, no sign of life since 1:02:41.840 --> 1:02:45.360 she disappeared two years ago or three years ago. Sorry, 1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:49.000 So they go to speak to a neighbor and he 1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:51.360 remembers Kim. He's like yeah, we would say hi here 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:53.960 and there. But I'm not surprised that you can't find 1:02:53.960 --> 1:02:56.560 out much about her. Her husband had her terrified to 1:02:56.600 --> 1:02:59.440 talk to anyone. I'd wave to her, she'd check over 1:02:59.440 --> 1:03:01.280 her shoulder to see if he was looking before she 1:03:01.320 --> 1:03:04.160 would wave back. She always had bruises, a broken arm. 1:03:04.560 --> 1:03:06.920 He said she ran off with another man. The neighbor's like, 1:03:07.000 --> 1:03:08.800 I don't buy that shit for a second. I think 1:03:08.880 --> 1:03:12.360 Kaufman killed her, especially after I saw that black van 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:15.960 and he said it pulled into the driveway late one night, 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:18.560 a shadowy figure filled it with garbage bags and then 1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:22.040 drove away, and the next day Kim was gone. He goes, 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.120 I called the cops and I gave them the license plate. 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:27.080 So now we're back with the Dan Hoffman fan club president, 1:03:27.120 --> 1:03:29.960 the fucking chief of police, and he's like, Dan Hoffman 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:33.760 is not a killer. But he pulls the file nevertheless, 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:36.520 and he's like, we might not be the almighty NYPD, but. 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:41.680 Were so muchtitude, dog, come on, you shut. 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:42.360 The fuck upp. 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:45.439 So then he goes the plates came back to someone 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.160 named Don Trent. She was a soccer mom from Portchester 1:03:48.200 --> 1:03:50.680 who was there delivering girl scout cookies and they're like, 1:03:50.720 --> 1:03:52.880 can we have the file? And he's like the cases closed, 1:03:53.400 --> 1:03:56.200 have at it. So Benson's like, all right, I'm gonna 1:03:56.240 --> 1:04:00.439 stall Cabot while Sabler tracks down Dawn Trent. We're talking 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:05.320 to Dawn don Dawn and she is played by Haveland Morris, 1:04:05.720 --> 1:04:07.760 and I was racking my brain trying to figure out 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:10.680 where I recognize her from. And she is Brooke from 1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:12.960 that season one episode of Sex and the City. 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:14.520 She's the redhead who's like. 1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:17.400 Getting married and it's like such a big deal about 1:04:17.440 --> 1:04:20.959 like gifts and right right, it's a turtle episode, I think. 1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:24.840 And I just remember her so clearly from that episode. 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:27.200 I look, she's got a long resume. This actress have 1:04:27.280 --> 1:04:32.320 Alane Morris, but I just didn't recognize many things except this, Yeah, 1:04:32.680 --> 1:04:33.680 she's an Yeah. 1:04:33.720 --> 1:04:35.360 She like tells her like make sure you end up 1:04:35.400 --> 1:04:37.160 with someone that loves you more than they love them, 1:04:37.240 --> 1:04:37.520 and that. 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:42.760 Like haunts carry or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're totally right. Damn. Yeah. 1:04:42.800 --> 1:04:45.120 I also loved that old man neighbor and no one 1:04:45.160 --> 1:04:46.680 listened to it. And that's the thing the cops had 1:04:46.720 --> 1:04:48.960 with bias. They didn't even do a proper investigation because 1:04:48.960 --> 1:04:50.920 they already yeah, like assume. 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:54.120 And imagine you're just like you're you're a neighbor and 1:04:54.160 --> 1:04:56.160 you're just still living next to a guy that you 1:04:56.240 --> 1:04:59.240 think murdered his wife, Like and he's just walking in 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:01.360 and out of the house ever with a new wife, 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:04.280 and like we're not checking in with the new wife, 1:05:04.320 --> 1:05:06.200 like what's going, Like I don't know, but. 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:08.160 Dawn. 1:05:08.400 --> 1:05:10.560 They're talking to Dawn and she's like, I don't know 1:05:10.640 --> 1:05:13.440 Dan Hoffman, and then Stabler jumps immediately to accusing her 1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:16.720 of accessory to murder, like immediately, and she's like what, 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:19.880 Like I don't know this man. And then they're like, okay, 1:05:19.920 --> 1:05:22.680 what about Kim Hoffman And she lies and goes, I 1:05:22.720 --> 1:05:25.400 don't know Kim Hoffman. But this is an obvious Mariah 1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:28.000 Carey style lie. She's like I don't know her. It's 1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:31.600 like you do know her, and Stabler's like, babe, cough 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:33.040 it up, like we know you were there the night 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:35.880 she disappeared, like we know something's up. And so she 1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:38.760 finally spills, She's like, I don't know Dan, but I 1:05:38.840 --> 1:05:41.320 do know Kim and I was there the night that 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:44.479 night helping her leave, and Stabler's confused He's like, wait, 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:48.040 Kim's alive, and Don's like, yeah, same old story. Your 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:51.520 husband is the nicest guy in town, everyone's pal, especially 1:05:51.520 --> 1:05:54.280 the cops. Every night he comes home, he beats you, 1:05:54.360 --> 1:05:57.400 degrades you, terrorizes you. And who's gonna believe that the 1:05:57.400 --> 1:05:59.920 man of the year is a batterer. There's nowhere to go, 1:06:00.160 --> 1:06:02.760 and there's nowhere to hide in a small town, and 1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:05.439 you know, you start, you get a like the only 1:06:05.480 --> 1:06:08.040 option you have is to get far away and start over. 1:06:08.400 --> 1:06:10.640 That takes money and help. And she's like, it's not 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:13.080 just me, it's a group of us. And Stable goes 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:17.200 like some kind of domestic violence underground railroad and she's like, yeah, 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:20.080 maybe I guess. So she's like I was Kim's first 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:22.000 stop and then I passed her on to someone else 1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:25.760 and they're like, what about the kid? And Don's like, listen, 1:06:26.000 --> 1:06:29.080 Kim was gonna die, Like we had to move her. 1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:32.200 She was coming. She was hoping to come back for Tommy. 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:34.200 But Don's like, I don't know where she is. I 1:06:34.240 --> 1:06:35.880 only know the next link in the chain, and that's 1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:38.680 all any of us really know. So we cut to 1:06:38.720 --> 1:06:41.080 Stabler going through the links right The next lady picked 1:06:41.080 --> 1:06:42.840 her up and drove her to Poughkeepsie. Then she was 1:06:42.880 --> 1:06:45.880 living on a farm New Paulitz, Brewster, And the last 1:06:45.920 --> 1:06:48.200 woman they talked to says, we got her settled in 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:51.000 Torrington and she got working at a dry cleaner's as 1:06:51.000 --> 1:06:53.360 far as I know, she's still there. I do want 1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:55.960 to point out that Torrington, Connecticut to Ride New York 1:06:56.080 --> 1:06:59.040 is eighty miles. Okay, it's a ninety minute drive, Max. 1:06:59.360 --> 1:07:01.000 You need to go there to get away from this 1:07:01.080 --> 1:07:05.479 man I feel, but she's close by anyway. Stabler shows 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:07.600 up at the dry cleaner in Torrington and finds Kim 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:09.440 working there, and he calls her Kim, and she's like, 1:07:09.480 --> 1:07:11.320 you have me mistaken for someone else. I mean, like 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:13.960 this is like sleeping with the enemy. This is like 1:07:14.000 --> 1:07:16.479 so many movie enough, like all these movies we've seen 1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:18.120 where it's like, Nope. 1:07:17.880 --> 1:07:18.400 That's not me. 1:07:18.960 --> 1:07:21.640 And he tells her listen, it's about Tommy. And then 1:07:21.880 --> 1:07:23.600 they have a chat in the back room of the 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:26.800 dry cleaner and she's like, I cry for Tommy every night. 1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:28.840 She's like nobody knew. 1:07:28.880 --> 1:07:31.240 He says, like, I know why you left, and she's 1:07:31.240 --> 1:07:33.120 like yeah, but nobody knew how bad it was. He 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:36.040 used to beat me so badly I couldn't walk. And 1:07:36.080 --> 1:07:37.640 then he's like, but you didn't you want to go 1:07:37.680 --> 1:07:39.760 back for Tommy, and she goes I did. After I 1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:42.080 got settled, I went back to Ryde to get him, 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:44.200 and I saw him playing on the front in the 1:07:44.200 --> 1:07:46.880 front yard with this woman and he called her mommy, 1:07:46.960 --> 1:07:49.520 and he looked so happy. I thought he's better off 1:07:49.880 --> 1:07:52.760 and he had everything I couldn't give him. But it's like, girl, 1:07:52.800 --> 1:07:55.080 you had to know that he was beating the shit 1:07:55.080 --> 1:07:56.800 out of that lady too. But I guess maybe you 1:07:56.880 --> 1:07:59.480 think it was just me. Maybe that's like a victim 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:03.160 like psychology that your batterer gets into you that like 1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:05.760 you're the worst woman and I only would beat you 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:09.000 or I've never beaten anyone else. But she's like, they're like, 1:08:09.040 --> 1:08:10.840 we need you now. You need to come see Tommy, 1:08:10.840 --> 1:08:12.920 and she's like, I can't face him. He won't understand 1:08:13.000 --> 1:08:15.920 what if he doesn't love me anymore? And he's like, listen, 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:17.640 you got to help Tommy or he goes back to 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:19.400 that house and you have to risk your pain to 1:08:19.439 --> 1:08:20.240 save his life. 1:08:20.520 --> 1:08:21.639 So now he cut to the trial. 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:24.240 Hoffman's on the stand talking about how he and Jill 1:08:24.280 --> 1:08:27.280 met because they worked together. She was so kind to 1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:30.680 him after Kim left and after the wedding. After they 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:33.160 got married, he saw that Jill had a terrible temper. 1:08:33.560 --> 1:08:36.160 One night, she didn't praise he didn't praise her cooking 1:08:36.200 --> 1:08:38.280 well enough, and she smashed a meat loaf all over 1:08:38.280 --> 1:08:41.240 the walls. Tommy was terrified. It's like, okay, confirm with Tommy. 1:08:41.280 --> 1:08:44.800 This sounds like bullshit. He realized that she was emotionally 1:08:44.880 --> 1:08:47.519 unstable and she refused to get help, and he thought 1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:50.040 with love and support, things would change, but they got worse. 1:08:50.439 --> 1:08:53.080 He was worried about Tommy that she would eventually hurt him, 1:08:53.400 --> 1:08:55.680 and so he told her he wanted a divorce. The 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:58.960 next day, she was gone. He was relieved until Tommy 1:08:58.960 --> 1:09:01.040 didn't come home from school and he realized she had 1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:01.799 taken him. 1:09:02.040 --> 1:09:03.120 So now it's Cabot's turn. 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:05.840 And she's like, oh, okay, so you're the victim and 1:09:06.000 --> 1:09:08.800 he's like yeah. She's like, well, if you love your 1:09:08.840 --> 1:09:11.600 son so much, why no missing person's report? And you know, 1:09:11.720 --> 1:09:13.800 we go through the same shit. He said before, I 1:09:13.840 --> 1:09:15.760 was afraid to talk to the cops. Jill might do 1:09:15.840 --> 1:09:18.400 something crazy. So he's like, so you didn't go look, 1:09:18.640 --> 1:09:22.000 and he's like, no, I did, and and she's like, well, 1:09:22.000 --> 1:09:24.759 when your friend told you that her doppelganger was shaking 1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:26.800 her ass down at Benny's topless, did you go check 1:09:26.840 --> 1:09:28.880 it out? And he's like, oh, I just thought that 1:09:28.920 --> 1:09:31.880 couldn't be true. Jill was shy. She wouldn't even fuck 1:09:31.960 --> 1:09:34.160 with the lights on. And it's like, so it's a 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:36.840 coincidence that you heard about this strip or twin of 1:09:36.840 --> 1:09:39.960 your wife and then days later she was found brutally murdered. 1:09:40.240 --> 1:09:41.640 And he's like, I wish I would have found her 1:09:41.680 --> 1:09:43.280 so that Tommy would have been safe with me and 1:09:43.320 --> 1:09:45.680 not watching her get murdered by some maniac. 1:09:46.360 --> 1:09:52.240 And Stabler he knows it. Huh, Yeah, now he knows. Yeah. 1:09:53.080 --> 1:09:59.120 So Stabler is outside court maybe and maybe he's setting 1:09:59.120 --> 1:10:02.519 that up that the jury would think like this guy 1:10:02.560 --> 1:10:04.479 would never let his kids sit there and watch a 1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:08.880 murder happen, but he did. So Stabler's outside court with Kim. 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:11.559 She looks nervous as hell, but then she sees Tommy 1:10:11.600 --> 1:10:14.720 walking over with Olivia and it's this is like the 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:18.479 sweetest exchange, Like she like goes over to him, kneels 1:10:18.479 --> 1:10:20.280 sound and goes, do you know who I am? And 1:10:20.520 --> 1:10:24.800 she's like, you're my real mom and he's like, I 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:27.960 have your picture. You miss my birthday and she's like, 1:10:28.040 --> 1:10:30.599 I'm sorry, but I saw your soccer playoffs last year 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:32.840 when you scored that big goal. And he's like lights up. 1:10:32.880 --> 1:10:35.360 He's like, you saw that, why didn't you come see me? 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:38.040 And she goes, I was scared and he immediately goes 1:10:38.080 --> 1:10:41.920 of dad like, you know not he knows and this kid, 1:10:42.360 --> 1:10:44.439 I wrote, Jesus, has this kid had a psyche val 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:45.000 yet or what? 1:10:45.280 --> 1:10:45.400 Like? 1:10:45.680 --> 1:10:48.720 What is happening? Like where's the evol like? 1:10:49.400 --> 1:10:53.000 And then she goes, yeah, he scares me a lot, 1:10:53.120 --> 1:10:57.559 and Tommy whispers me too. It's so heartbreaking, and she goes, 1:10:57.680 --> 1:11:01.120 I'll never go away again, and he's like, do you promise, 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:04.880 and she's like yes, and she's crying and they're hugging. Next, 1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:07.680 Cabot calls Tommy to the stand and he walks into 1:11:07.720 --> 1:11:11.960 the courtroom holding his mom's hand. Dan looks shook when 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:15.040 he sees his you know, his tramp wife who ran 1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:19.559 off with another man. And so Dan is like glaring 1:11:19.560 --> 1:11:22.400 at Tommy while he's on the stand Cabot asks Tommy 1:11:22.400 --> 1:11:24.800 a few questions, and he is so scared of his daddy, 1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:27.040 won't take eyes. I like it when the lawyer stands 1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:30.719 in between yea to kind of block the view because 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:34.200 he's only eyes on his dad. He's terrified, and then 1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:36.519 the like you won't speak, and the judge goes, this 1:11:36.600 --> 1:11:40.040 child is in no state to testify, and Cabot goes, 1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:42.439 all right and he can go and holds his hand 1:11:42.479 --> 1:11:45.240 and walks him towards the gallery and the dad leans 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:47.559 over and it's almost like it's almost like the episode 1:11:47.640 --> 1:11:49.280 wouldn't have ended this way if the dad had just 1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:51.960 fucking not done this. But he leans over and goes, 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:54.639 I love you son with all the warmth of a blizzard. 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:57.519 I mean, it's really not since here at all. And 1:11:57.600 --> 1:12:00.880 Tommy nervously looks to his mom and it's like seeing 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:03.160 his mom gives him like the strength, and he looks 1:12:03.200 --> 1:12:06.160 back to his dad and said says, you killed Jill, 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:08.439 just like straight up, and she. 1:12:09.720 --> 1:12:10.760 You know you got it. 1:12:10.760 --> 1:12:14.479 It's like a cute little boy, Yeah, you killed Jill, 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:17.920 and but he says it like it's not mumbling. He 1:12:18.120 --> 1:12:22.000 says it right like, and then Cheney's like for a mistrial, 1:12:22.200 --> 1:12:27.360 like immediately physics, Yeah, and the judge calls for order, 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:32.000 but again, what did the psychevol where is it? The 1:12:32.080 --> 1:12:34.719 judge calls for order, Cabot asked Tommy, are you okay? 1:12:34.760 --> 1:12:37.480 And he goes, I'm ready, I can do it now, 1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:38.920 and he's so brave. 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:39.759 So I think he's. 1:12:39.600 --> 1:12:41.320 Gonna get back on the stand and he's gonna fucking 1:12:41.320 --> 1:12:44.160 say what he just said. So now Dan Hoffman looks 1:12:44.400 --> 1:12:47.439 furious as Tommy gets back on the stand, and that's 1:12:47.439 --> 1:12:49.960 dick wolf baby. And I did notice as the credits 1:12:50.000 --> 1:12:51.840 were rolling that there's a woman in the episode named 1:12:51.880 --> 1:12:54.000 Woman Number one and her name is Kate Middleton, So 1:12:54.120 --> 1:12:58.519 I don't know what maybe both first Ladies of England 1:12:58.560 --> 1:12:59.880 have been on USA networks. 1:13:00.240 --> 1:13:03.240 I also I like the person playing the mom and 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:04.320 I feel like I know her. 1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:06.840 I know, and I looked her up and her name 1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:13.120 is like Signey something, but she's not in anything anyone. 1:13:13.160 --> 1:13:17.240 They're Sydney Coleman, she h Like I thought I recognized 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:19.000 her from stuff too. I guess she was in a 1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:20.840 couple ups of the X Files. She was on The 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:24.400 Young and the Restless for like twelve years or ten 1:13:24.479 --> 1:13:25.240 years or something. 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:30.320 Well, it's Sydney Coleman and it's an American theoretical physicist. 1:13:30.520 --> 1:13:31.080 Wow. 1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:34.960 Oh yeah, this woman's Signey and she stopped acting in 1:13:34.960 --> 1:13:37.320 twenty twelve, so maybe. 1:13:37.080 --> 1:13:41.439 It's not an accident that I'm on this Sie physicists page. 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:49.400 Waits, maybe it's meant to be. Damn, she looks hot. Okay, 1:13:49.680 --> 1:13:54.400 see aged amazing? Who the actress or the hot physicist? 1:13:54.640 --> 1:13:59.280 Oh okay, physicist is not sexy. I just think he 1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:02.120 died into the seven. He's a man. 1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:06.920 Signy or Google photos sexual. 1:14:07.320 --> 1:14:08.439 Yeah, she was great. 1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:14.720 I mean, I'm really interested to hear the cases, just because. 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:15.400 I know I'm going to be sad. 1:14:15.520 --> 1:14:19.880 But well, and I wonder because we got okay, so 1:14:19.920 --> 1:14:23.840 basically on the wiki, it's not based on a crime 1:14:23.920 --> 1:14:26.280 we couldn't figure out, so we kind of made it work, 1:14:26.360 --> 1:14:27.759 and that doesn't happen often. 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:31.160 I would say, Well, we got in touch with Neil Baert, 1:14:31.439 --> 1:14:34.639 our guy, Yeah, and he said that it wasn't really 1:14:34.640 --> 1:14:37.240 based on anything specific. He said that he had read 1:14:37.360 --> 1:14:41.240 about this domestic violence underground railroad. But whenever I was 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:44.000 trying to look it up, I found a website that 1:14:44.040 --> 1:14:45.960 I'm going to use I'm going to share for what 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:49.040 would sister peg do. But like I didn't find specific 1:14:49.120 --> 1:14:51.719 cases that was just like an organization, like a TV organization, 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:53.720 They're not going to like funnel you from place to 1:14:53.720 --> 1:14:58.080 place a hidie. So I was and then I feel 1:14:58.120 --> 1:14:59.519 like we broke we broke open the case. 1:14:59.560 --> 1:15:00.519 So we found stuff. 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:04.599 Yeah, so with some research and then I kind of 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:07.760 like was looking up things that would fit this and 1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:12.240 then wildly it all really works together and I'm glad 1:15:12.280 --> 1:15:13.720 we get to kind of dive into it. 1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:16.600 And one is in New York, so you know, we 1:15:16.640 --> 1:15:17.519 can be more connected. 1:15:17.560 --> 1:15:28.439 Even so, this is the case of Charlie Nicholson, and 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:31.760 the court case was like Nicholson versus Williams, and it's 1:15:31.800 --> 1:15:36.120 basically defending parental rights of mothers who are domestic violence victims. 1:15:36.560 --> 1:15:40.680 And this went down around nineteen ninety nine. So Nicholson 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:43.599 was a single mother of two young children, Kendall Cole's 1:15:43.680 --> 1:15:47.559 and Destiny. And so like Destiny is a baby, Kendall, 1:15:47.840 --> 1:15:51.479 her son is six years old, and she was in 1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:55.800 the relationship with the youngest daughter's father, Claude Barnett, but 1:15:55.880 --> 1:15:58.160 he lived in South Carolina and he would go to 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:02.120 Brooklyn monthly to see his child, and then on January 1:16:02.120 --> 1:16:04.880 twenty seventh, nineteen ninety nine, he decided to beat the 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:07.240 shit out of her, and he kicked her, punched her, 1:16:07.240 --> 1:16:09.280 and threw stuff at her, and her head was bleeding. 1:16:09.360 --> 1:16:11.680 So she called nine to one to one and she 1:16:11.800 --> 1:16:14.320 made arrangements for a neighbor to take her children while 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:16.479 she was in the hospital, and then once she found 1:16:16.479 --> 1:16:19.000 out she had to be there overnight, she gave officers 1:16:19.040 --> 1:16:21.240 the name of relatives who could care for the children 1:16:21.280 --> 1:16:25.080 and her absence. And she said she was quoted like 1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:28.879 in the Times, that she slept peacefully at King's County Hospital, 1:16:28.920 --> 1:16:30.560 knowing the neighbors and her cousin. 1:16:30.320 --> 1:16:30.920 Had her kids. 1:16:31.120 --> 1:16:34.320 So and then the next day instead, the Administration of 1:16:34.439 --> 1:16:38.400 Child Children's Services ACS, a worker, instead took custody of 1:16:38.400 --> 1:16:41.280 her children. They decided that the kids were an imminent 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:43.639 risk if they stayed with her, because she couldn't protect 1:16:43.720 --> 1:16:47.559 herself or them while he was beating her. And I'm like, 1:16:47.600 --> 1:16:48.360 did you arrest him? 1:16:48.400 --> 1:16:50.400 But okay. The ACS also. 1:16:50.120 --> 1:16:54.800 Filed charges of neglect against her for engaging in acts 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:58.080 of domestic violence in the presence of their child. They 1:16:58.120 --> 1:17:00.479 also cited that she didn't show up to court once 1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:02.000 like back in the day, and it was the day 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:05.160 of a severe snowstorm. So it's like they just I 1:17:05.200 --> 1:17:09.040 have no I mean, I can't even Nicholson says, I 1:17:09.040 --> 1:17:11.280 didn't know I'd end up down that road and that 1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:13.880 calling for help would escalate and I'd end up losing 1:17:13.920 --> 1:17:18.840 my kids. So now another kind of fear tactic. Yeah, 1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:21.320 so women don't reach out because this is going on, 1:17:21.479 --> 1:17:24.839 this could happen. It's it reminds me of like always 1:17:24.920 --> 1:17:27.280 and but it reminds me of like the case of 1:17:27.680 --> 1:17:30.720 the massage the Margaret Show episode we did, and how 1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:33.920 like they pretend to care but punish the victims constantly 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:35.880 when they're women and the men get to just kind 1:17:35.920 --> 1:17:38.439 of skirt on, but like you're tougher on this woman 1:17:38.439 --> 1:17:40.320 who got the ship beat out of her than the 1:17:40.360 --> 1:17:41.200 person that did it. 1:17:41.840 --> 1:17:43.240 Yeah, it's so fucked. 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:45.760 So February fourth, ninety nine, family court ordered that her 1:17:45.800 --> 1:17:47.559 kids be returned to her, but she was kept on 1:17:47.600 --> 1:17:50.680 state records as a neglectful parent, and so Nicholson and 1:17:50.720 --> 1:17:53.439 a bunch of others filed a class action suit against 1:17:53.479 --> 1:17:57.240 the ACS that it deprived them of their fourteenth Amendment, 1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:02.160 you know for due process, which I guess is a 1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:06.000 thing of the past, now, okay, So two thousand and four, 1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:11.360 So May third, two thousand and four. The NYCLU, so 1:18:11.400 --> 1:18:13.840 I just the New York a CILIU chapter joined them, 1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:17.280 and basically they showed that they had a gender bias 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:20.720 that blames abused mothers and that this harms children, and 1:18:20.800 --> 1:18:24.519 that the acs failed to exercise a minimum degree of 1:18:24.560 --> 1:18:27.840 care like I can't. So October twenty six, two thousand 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:30.080 and four, the New York Court of Appeals unanimously held 1:18:30.080 --> 1:18:32.719 that a mother's inability to protect a child from witnessing 1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:35.840 abuse does not constitute a neglect and therefore cannot be 1:18:35.880 --> 1:18:39.479 the sole basis for removal. Only in the rarest instance 1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:41.720 do you remove a child, and you have to think 1:18:41.760 --> 1:18:43.600 about the psychological. 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:43.759 Harm on the children. 1:18:44.320 --> 1:18:46.320 So New York did agreed to pay more than six 1:18:46.400 --> 1:18:48.759 hundred thousand dollars to settle with three of the families 1:18:48.800 --> 1:18:50.479 in the lawsuit. And that was in two thousand and two, 1:18:51.040 --> 1:18:54.240 and there was fifteen families total in the class action. 1:18:54.360 --> 1:18:56.000 And then a woman from. 1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:59.040 Queen's and her four kids got three hundred grand Nicholson 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:01.600 and another mar there Shirlene Tillet got one hundred and 1:19:01.640 --> 1:19:05.040 fifty grand each, and the settlement also had like that 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:07.720 the city had to pay the plaintif Sleegal fees and 1:19:07.760 --> 1:19:12.320 the Charlene Tillet case is fucking insane. So she was 1:19:12.320 --> 1:19:15.759 twenty nine and pregnant. Her baby's father and former boyfriend 1:19:15.800 --> 1:19:18.799 came over one night and pummeled her. That's not my words, 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:21.360 that's the paper, that's like the New York Times, and 1:19:21.640 --> 1:19:23.519 not the first time, but it was the last. And 1:19:23.560 --> 1:19:25.160 she was like, that's it. I'm gonna have my baby 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:27.160 and I'm gonna move to California. So she got like 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:30.240 everything together to move to California. So she gave birth 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:32.840 to a healthy baby boy in New York and New 1:19:32.920 --> 1:19:36.600 York at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center. And usually after you 1:19:36.600 --> 1:19:39.120 give birth, like social workers and people always ask about 1:19:39.160 --> 1:19:41.720 DV it's part of the questionnaire, it's the thing, and 1:19:41.800 --> 1:19:45.280 so she asked, she answered candidly. Then the baby's father 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:47.559 was the one that picked up from the hospital and 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.599 she goes obviously a grave mistake. So then the social 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:53.320 worker filed a complaint to the state Register on Child 1:19:53.360 --> 1:19:56.519 Abuse and Neglect and the next day child Welfare came 1:19:56.560 --> 1:19:59.639 with officers and carried away her two day old son. 1:20:00.040 --> 1:20:03.040 Oh my god, I'm gonna be sick, charged her. 1:20:03.000 --> 1:20:06.439 With child neglect and it took seven weeks to get 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:07.400 her baby back. 1:20:07.520 --> 1:20:08.400 Oh my god. 1:20:09.000 --> 1:20:10.920 And at the time of this article in two thousand, 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:14.240 she was living in a homeless shelter because but like 1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:16.200 she and then she got in trouble for not having 1:20:16.240 --> 1:20:18.640 a crib. She goes, I am moving to California, Like 1:20:19.320 --> 1:20:21.120 I am moving. She had a plane take like, she 1:20:21.240 --> 1:20:24.880 had everything set to go to California two day old. 1:20:24.960 --> 1:20:26.719 They thought that would be the best thing for a baby, 1:20:27.439 --> 1:20:29.200 not arresting a man that hit her. 1:20:29.600 --> 1:20:32.120 Oh my god, that's fucking awful. 1:20:32.720 --> 1:20:35.960 Like iast all the time because I'm like, we wouldn't 1:20:35.960 --> 1:20:37.760 know about this. I didn't even know things like this 1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:40.280 could happen. It happens right here in our state. And 1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:44.800 it's like, fuck, I can't even fucking fathom taking any 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:45.599 day all the way. 1:20:46.000 --> 1:20:48.840 Yeah, and they look for excuses like I'm sure even 1:20:48.960 --> 1:20:52.920 like like they can come in and be quote unquote 1:20:52.960 --> 1:20:55.479 investigating the DV claim and then be like, oh, you 1:20:55.479 --> 1:20:57.760 don't have a crib. It's like okay, Well, then there 1:20:57.760 --> 1:21:00.160 are agencies that can get her a crib, Like, it's 1:21:00.240 --> 1:21:03.000 not that's not worthy of taking away a baby for 1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:05.160 seven weeks a new fucking baby. 1:21:06.240 --> 1:21:08.120 No, And there's supposed to be a best set, like 1:21:08.520 --> 1:21:09.080 you don't even. 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:12.040 Need a fucking gab at that don't No, you don't 1:21:12.040 --> 1:21:17.560 even need a crib And it's just no. Unfortunately, with ACS, 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:20.160 like with any kind of like child and Family services, 1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:22.280 there's a lot of personal bias that people will go 1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:24.240 into homes, and like I had to learn about this 1:21:24.280 --> 1:21:26.360 when I was a casa where they would like give us. 1:21:26.400 --> 1:21:27.840 They would say, like, you walk into a home, you 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:30.600 see X, y Z, what are your immediate thoughts And 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:32.320 you have to like check your own bias because just 1:21:32.360 --> 1:21:34.120 because that's not like what your house would look like, 1:21:34.640 --> 1:21:37.280 that doesn't mean it's an unsafe house for a child. 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:39.360 Like they would say stuff like no rugs on the 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:42.200 floor or like a vase within reach of the kids 1:21:42.280 --> 1:21:45.559 or something like that. It's like, that's not reason to 1:21:45.600 --> 1:21:47.160 be And these are just off the top of my head. 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:48.880 There would be other ones, you know, like that's not 1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:52.679 reason to be removed. 1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:55.320 You know, we have, but there's a lot of biases. 1:21:55.920 --> 1:21:57.720 Yeah, and then I think about the cases in New 1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:01.160 York where children died because of necklaces with this department. 1:22:01.840 --> 1:22:04.240 So it's like, how are you evil and bad on 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:06.640 both sides of the spectrum where you're letting children be 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:09.519 in a dog cage starved over months where you should 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:12.120 have been there, and then in there you're also dame 1:22:12.240 --> 1:22:16.240 place you're also taking away two year old children from 1:22:16.280 --> 1:22:21.040 a domestic violence victim. Like I don't understand. I know, like, 1:22:21.200 --> 1:22:24.879 how are you bad on both spectrum? Ends is confusing 1:22:25.000 --> 1:22:25.160 to me. 1:22:25.880 --> 1:22:28.320 So Judge Clark v. 1:22:28.479 --> 1:22:32.880 Richardson of the Bronx Family Court said the obvious, it's 1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:36.679 difficult because you're victimizing these people twice and the children. 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:37.120 Everyone. 1:22:37.200 --> 1:22:38.800 The New York Times did a big piece on this 1:22:39.000 --> 1:22:41.599 and they talked to this judge a lot, so it's like, 1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:43.599 we get it. If there's DV in the home and 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:46.799 the chances of child abuse does go up, and they wrote, 1:22:47.160 --> 1:22:50.240 you know, unrelated, but especially if there's an unrelated a 1:22:50.360 --> 1:22:53.960 non relative male in the home, immediately abuse goes up. 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.479 That's why I don't trust step dads. Unfortunately, that's my bias. 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:00.200 That's my bias. I'm like, are you a pedi? While 1:23:00.240 --> 1:23:00.960 if you're a stepdad. 1:23:00.960 --> 1:23:02.360 Immediately go are you a pedophile or not? 1:23:02.439 --> 1:23:05.040 And I start analyzing you, and it's because of Rosie 1:23:05.080 --> 1:23:06.920 Prez's episode, and it is what it is. 1:23:07.080 --> 1:23:10.559 Like, I'm sorry, the Will are Net. No, those are 1:23:10.560 --> 1:23:12.400 separate now, isn't. 1:23:12.200 --> 1:23:14.920 HER's the Will Arnett or No? No, no, you're right, 1:23:14.960 --> 1:23:19.679 different on different one. He is, Yeah, they're both Nambler related. 1:23:20.560 --> 1:23:24.160 But I get my Nambla episodes mixed up. I'm sorry. Yeah, 1:23:24.240 --> 1:23:24.559 I was. 1:23:24.560 --> 1:23:26.880 Just talking to someone who's a fan of s you, 1:23:26.960 --> 1:23:30.360 but casually, like obviously, but they were talking about how 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:33.120 all the athletes never look that good. It's like always 1:23:33.160 --> 1:23:35.720 ill fitting oversizes to He's like, the athletes never look 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:36.240 that sharp. 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:37.840 And I was looking through and I go, you're right. 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:43.120 But anyways, this is not about fashion. Okay, we're here. 1:23:44.160 --> 1:23:46.840 Oh yeah, unrelated males, not even related to this case. 1:23:46.960 --> 1:23:51.759 So like, obviously DV does increase the chance of child abuse, 1:23:52.800 --> 1:23:56.840 and that seeing abuse does affect children, or even seeing 1:23:56.880 --> 1:23:59.920 like fighting within the home. And this all stemmed from 1:24:00.080 --> 1:24:02.240 thing that I think was trying to be helpful. In 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:07.000 nineteen ninety eight, the state court ruled it declared incidents 1:24:07.040 --> 1:24:09.160 of DV in the presence of a child to be 1:24:09.280 --> 1:24:13.120 sufficient grounds of charge of neglect. But to me, it's like, 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:16.720 why don't you help the women leave and arrest the men, 1:24:17.520 --> 1:24:20.240 Like why with all these rules to take kids away 1:24:20.360 --> 1:24:25.479 but not punish these motherfuckers. It is so crazy. Richardson's like, sure, 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:30.200 it's failure. Richardson's like, damn sure, it's failure to protect children. 1:24:30.280 --> 1:24:33.559 But the victim has done nothing wrong or negligent and 1:24:33.640 --> 1:24:36.519 probably just lack the financial and emotional resources to leave 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:37.519 an abusive partner. 1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:39.400 And like, do you. 1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:41.720 Think this is an incentive? Like do you think if 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:44.320 you say, hey, ladies, like you're gonna lose your kids 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:45.960 if you let your husband beat you, so you better 1:24:46.000 --> 1:24:46.639 get out of there. 1:24:46.880 --> 1:24:49.120 Like that's not how it works, Like I know. 1:24:49.160 --> 1:24:51.400 But that's what we're we've were learning, especially now with 1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:53.680 this presidency is the and we know this, but the 1:24:53.760 --> 1:24:58.200 human traffickers, the pedophiles, and the abusers are in charge 1:24:58.280 --> 1:25:01.880 of all of it. They want to punish women, they 1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:03.920 want to punish brown people. We are seeing all this 1:25:03.920 --> 1:25:07.479 this is season four, Like you know what I mean. 1:25:08.520 --> 1:25:13.160 So he says, these cases are a daunting exercise and 1:25:13.240 --> 1:25:17.680 balancing interests and so that's to the Times. And so 1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:20.479 they did this pilot program where they placed all these 1:25:20.520 --> 1:25:24.479 cases under one judge so that this judge, Richardson, could 1:25:24.479 --> 1:25:27.120 help have uniformity on how these decisions would be made. 1:25:27.240 --> 1:25:30.600 So he saw forty or so of these cases, and 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:33.160 the majority of them he sent the children back home. 1:25:33.920 --> 1:25:37.080 And it's a judgment call on the case workers, like 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:40.120 they should be only making the decision if the evidence 1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:43.800 really shows the child is in imminent danger. And that's 1:25:43.840 --> 1:25:46.400 a paraphrase of Nicholas Scapetta, and he's the Commissioner of 1:25:46.400 --> 1:25:47.759 the Administration. 1:25:47.160 --> 1:25:50.880 Of Children's Services. But I just can't. I don't know. 1:25:51.000 --> 1:25:53.720 It's also bad so and that's to the Times. But 1:25:54.280 --> 1:25:56.320 they get it wrong, and that's basically why the class 1:25:56.320 --> 1:25:58.840 actions do happen. They get it wrong so much. And 1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:01.920 it also, like we keep saying, it keeps victims of 1:26:02.000 --> 1:26:05.120 DV from taking action because of the threat of their 1:26:05.160 --> 1:26:07.680 children being taken away. And yes, it is hard for 1:26:07.760 --> 1:26:10.559 children to watch abuse, but it's also hard when they're 1:26:10.560 --> 1:26:13.599 suddenly taken from their parents' care, like what the fuck? 1:26:14.040 --> 1:26:16.559 And again, none of their solutions make it easier to 1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:20.799 prosecute domestic violence people or trust women or put away abusers, 1:26:20.800 --> 1:26:22.719 but cops feed their wives, so it doesn't fucking matter. 1:26:22.840 --> 1:26:23.960 Like I don't know what to. 1:26:23.920 --> 1:26:26.400 Say, Like, I don't know why all of the effort 1:26:26.520 --> 1:26:29.880 is it to be harsher on. 1:26:30.560 --> 1:26:31.520 I'm a criminal? 1:26:32.320 --> 1:26:36.000 Yeah, what about a three strikes you're out fucking rule 1:26:36.040 --> 1:26:38.479 for DV you know, like why are we not doing that? 1:26:39.200 --> 1:26:39.280 No? 1:26:39.479 --> 1:26:42.519 Do that for when we do that for like turnstile jumping, 1:26:42.600 --> 1:26:44.599 don't wait like or they're like their husband. 1:26:45.080 --> 1:26:48.439 But it's also we blame the victim. It's always why 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:50.800 didn't she leave or why didn't she do that? Or 1:26:50.840 --> 1:26:52.960 well she didn't want to press charges, and then they're 1:26:53.000 --> 1:26:54.240 like mad at those people. 1:26:54.560 --> 1:26:58.080 It's also very strange. It's so strange. 1:26:58.320 --> 1:27:00.920 Yeah, somebody has any empathy or compassion or can put 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:03.360 theirselves in anyone else's fucking shoes for two seconds and 1:27:03.439 --> 1:27:06.000 consider what it might be like for them. Not nobody, 1:27:06.040 --> 1:27:08.280 but a lot of people, and most people that you 1:27:08.320 --> 1:27:11.160 know all the like, there's these fucking people right now 1:27:11.200 --> 1:27:13.600 with what's happening with the with snap and everything, and 1:27:13.640 --> 1:27:15.720 people are just like get a jaw. It's like you 1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:18.400 have no idea what's going on in people's lives. It's 1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:19.680 fucking crazy. 1:27:19.640 --> 1:27:21.600 Like some people don't have legs. I don't know. 1:27:21.760 --> 1:27:27.720 Yeah, they can't have they can't have people and the control. 1:27:27.439 --> 1:27:31.479 Over rural you live in some rural ass town in Kentucky. 1:27:31.520 --> 1:27:33.080 Like I heard of some town in Kentucky that's like 1:27:33.080 --> 1:27:35.599 a ninety eight percent of them are on snap. There's nothing, 1:27:35.640 --> 1:27:38.720 there's no work there, Like you know, you don't what 1:27:38.920 --> 1:27:40.240 job do you want everyone to go get? 1:27:40.640 --> 1:27:43.559 Like yeah, And then it's even more sick where it's 1:27:43.560 --> 1:27:46.360 like they shouldn't get to shop, they should get a 1:27:46.400 --> 1:27:48.479 box of food and eat rice and me and what 1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:50.160 we give you and and it's like. 1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:54.040 You are sick, you are sick. It's such a small 1:27:54.040 --> 1:27:56.360 amount of money. It's such a small amount of money 1:27:56.360 --> 1:27:58.439 out of taxpayers pockets. It's such a small amount of 1:27:58.479 --> 1:27:59.960 money that we give people, and they ca. 1:28:00.840 --> 1:28:06.240 The fucking puritanical nature of the early settlers. 1:28:06.520 --> 1:28:07.719 Oh God, Okay. 1:28:07.880 --> 1:28:10.960 So Fay did pass away in August of twenty twenty four, 1:28:11.040 --> 1:28:12.240 So rest in peace. 1:28:13.880 --> 1:28:14.720 So she was. 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:18.760 A Georgia woman who ran an underground network out of 1:28:18.760 --> 1:28:21.120 her Atlanta home to help high children who had been abused. 1:28:21.439 --> 1:28:26.280 Somethink hero, something kidnapper and vigilante the network did not 1:28:26.360 --> 1:28:29.640 take children without a guardian's involvement. And that's what she 1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:32.439 said to the Detroit Free Press in twenty eleven. So 1:28:32.479 --> 1:28:35.960 it's not like so it's not kidnapped, there's a parent. Well, 1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:39.840 you know, this is a very debated woman, I will say. 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:43.400 So these plans took months, and the kids would get 1:28:43.439 --> 1:28:45.800 new names forged id papers, all of this. And the 1:28:45.840 --> 1:28:48.040 reason she got into this was she was married to 1:28:48.080 --> 1:28:51.240 a man that the courts did not believe abused their daughter. 1:28:51.760 --> 1:28:53.040 And then years later he. 1:28:53.040 --> 1:28:55.240 Was on the FBI most Wanted list as a sexual 1:28:55.320 --> 1:28:59.120 predator and he ended up getting a multiple guilty verdicts 1:28:59.120 --> 1:29:02.280 for being a pedophile, and the courts just didn't listen 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:04.280 even though her four year old had gone a rhea. 1:29:04.600 --> 1:29:08.200 Oh my god, this man was considered the first pedophile 1:29:08.280 --> 1:29:10.280 to be added to the top ten most wanted list. 1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:13.400 He is dead now And if the authorities listened to her, 1:29:13.600 --> 1:29:15.120 maybe multiple children could have. 1:29:15.120 --> 1:29:19.000 Not been molested. So thank you so much, Jesus. 1:29:19.439 --> 1:29:21.400 And then her daughter was sent to a mental hospital 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:23.920 and she could not get her daughter back, no amount 1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:27.040 of appeals. And then she like married this Atlanta doctor 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:31.599 Howard Yaeger and that's what like sparks her right. 1:29:31.720 --> 1:29:33.240 She was feeling ignored. 1:29:32.840 --> 1:29:35.360 By the authorities, and that led her to be an 1:29:35.400 --> 1:29:39.120 advocate for abused children who are being ignored. So began 1:29:39.160 --> 1:29:41.759 in nineteen eighty seven My Year of Birth and Jaeger 1:29:41.840 --> 1:29:45.120 read about a Mississippi case involving a woman, Karen Newsom, 1:29:45.439 --> 1:29:47.759 who lost custody of her two kids after she accused 1:29:47.760 --> 1:29:51.880 her husband of sexually abusing them, and Yager started getting 1:29:51.880 --> 1:29:52.240 a lot. 1:29:52.080 --> 1:29:52.759 Of media attention. 1:29:52.840 --> 1:29:57.040 In the late eighties, she did Heraldo Sally Jesse, Raphael Oprah. 1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:00.680 She was doing the circuit, the Circuit Honey, and it 1:30:00.760 --> 1:30:03.400 was called the Children of the Underground Network. And the 1:30:03.439 --> 1:30:06.519 network was made of people from domestic miland shelters, women's groups, 1:30:06.800 --> 1:30:09.559 former nuns. And this is from an A like A 1:30:09.680 --> 1:30:13.080 and E from any report on this from Newsweek article 1:30:13.080 --> 1:30:16.360 from twenty sixteen. The problem with the network is they 1:30:16.439 --> 1:30:20.200 are defying the courts, so that is a thing. They're 1:30:20.280 --> 1:30:24.080 usually helping non custodial parents, which are mostly mothers. And 1:30:24.120 --> 1:30:27.080 we've talked about PERI, We've talked about the biases in 1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:31.160 courts and parent alienation syndrome and all of that, and 1:30:31.200 --> 1:30:36.679 how abusers get custody of children, even when mothers plead 1:30:36.720 --> 1:30:41.280 and then thirty Yeah it sucks. So so it's you know, 1:30:41.320 --> 1:30:44.439 they're working with non custodial parents. And she claimed to 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:46.679 have helped over like a thousand children over the years. 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.519 It was a network about two hundred women. A lot 1:30:49.560 --> 1:30:52.800 of them were abused as children or you know, they 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:56.080 had abused children, and they shelter the victims in their 1:30:56.120 --> 1:30:59.280 homes as they post for as relatives for several weeks, 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:02.120 and then they continue hostly, we're moving from shelters, and 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:04.360 then they would limit the stays at each place for 1:31:04.439 --> 1:31:09.679 two to three days because local police officials like would 1:31:09.840 --> 1:31:12.479 regularly go to the shelters to look for missing people, 1:31:12.640 --> 1:31:16.240 which I didn't know, but I guess yeh, like, if 1:31:16.240 --> 1:31:18.800 someone's in the shelter, they're hiding, so why are you 1:31:18.840 --> 1:31:23.479 in there looking, especially when they have such high rates 1:31:23.479 --> 1:31:25.280 of DV in the police departments. 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:27.080 But also. 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:31.040 I don't know, I don't love it, but they had 1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:33.760 a plan. So and they would give people the new 1:31:33.800 --> 1:31:38.639 birth certificate and driver's licenses, which again illegal. They stole 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.479 names from birth certificates of dead people. There was a 1:31:41.520 --> 1:31:45.559 lot of you know, greyhounds train stations, wigs, pillows, and 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:47.800 but on nineteen ninety two, she was put on trial, 1:31:48.400 --> 1:31:55.360 you know, like she has a kidnapper, but she's helping 1:31:55.360 --> 1:31:59.439 where the justice system fails. So her defense lawyer is like, hey, 1:31:59.520 --> 1:32:01.439 if it wasn't for her, like, what would have happened 1:32:01.479 --> 1:32:05.759 to all these kids. His name is Robert Ferrier, her attorney, 1:32:05.960 --> 1:32:08.760 and like he brought up you know, she's a mother 1:32:08.800 --> 1:32:12.599 of an abused child, and the courts returned the child 1:32:12.840 --> 1:32:18.439 to her abuser, Like I yeah, I've really it sickens me. 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:21.800 He maintained that she was being tried for being a 1:32:21.880 --> 1:32:24.479 thorn in the side of local officials. I'm sure she 1:32:24.560 --> 1:32:27.040 was annoying to be around, you know, and it is 1:32:27.080 --> 1:32:31.479 confirmed later she had a tough personality. 1:32:31.439 --> 1:32:32.960 Yeah, but it's okay. 1:32:33.560 --> 1:32:36.880 So she was charged with cruelty to children, kidnapping, an 1:32:36.880 --> 1:32:40.320 interference with custody, and the charges stem from a case 1:32:40.400 --> 1:32:42.320 with two Florida children who were brought to her in 1:32:42.360 --> 1:32:44.640 April of nineteen ninety by their mother, saying she was 1:32:44.680 --> 1:32:47.880 fleeing an abusive husband. But there are tapes of Yaeger 1:32:47.960 --> 1:32:50.080 like yelling at the kids and pushing them to remember 1:32:50.120 --> 1:32:52.840 more about the abuse and the boy is like begging 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:55.400 for his mom and doesn't like the interrogation. So that 1:32:55.600 --> 1:32:58.479 was like a, you know, not good evidence towards her, 1:33:00.160 --> 1:33:03.160 but since a parent knew it was happening, you couldn't 1:33:03.200 --> 1:33:04.400 say it was like kidnap. 1:33:04.439 --> 1:33:04.840 I don't know. 1:33:05.280 --> 1:33:07.920 The possible sentence for this was sixty years. But she 1:33:08.000 --> 1:33:11.240 was acquitted May of nineteen ninety two. The jury deliberated 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:13.479 for less than three hours after a four week trial 1:33:13.520 --> 1:33:17.240 that included fifty five witnesses, So kind of a I 1:33:17.240 --> 1:33:19.280 mean I liked that she was acquitted, Oh the buck 1:33:19.760 --> 1:33:22.040 and so, but like tons of millionaires ended up mad 1:33:22.040 --> 1:33:24.479 at her too, like this ended up being her demise 1:33:24.640 --> 1:33:27.040 kind of but she's back and strong, but I mean dead, 1:33:27.080 --> 1:33:30.839 But we'll get to it. So there was a guy Bippin' 1:33:30.920 --> 1:33:33.240 show and he ended up being on the cover of 1:33:33.280 --> 1:33:37.000 Time magazine in May nineteen ninety eight, offering a two 1:33:37.000 --> 1:33:39.679 million dollar reward for the return of his two young children, 1:33:40.320 --> 1:33:42.360 and he did end up finding them at his wife's 1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:44.559 home in Switzerland and brought them back to the US, 1:33:44.840 --> 1:33:49.000 but he did a one hundred million dollar lawsuit against 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:50.840 her in nineteen ninety nine, so. 1:33:52.280 --> 1:33:53.240 Tough tough time. 1:33:53.320 --> 1:33:56.040 Oh, because she helped get them to Switzerland, got it. 1:33:56.280 --> 1:33:57.960 Yeah. 1:33:57.400 --> 1:34:00.360 And another group I found in my research for the 1:34:00.360 --> 1:34:03.240 New York Times article in nineteen eighty eight talked about 1:34:03.280 --> 1:34:07.519 another group, the Mother's Against Raping Children a really direct name. 1:34:07.640 --> 1:34:08.280 Oh my god. 1:34:08.400 --> 1:34:13.400 Yeah, and Lydia Rayner and Yager would offer shelter to 1:34:13.439 --> 1:34:15.720 women and children and she routed them through private homes 1:34:15.760 --> 1:34:18.240 in several states in Canada. And she said she gets 1:34:18.240 --> 1:34:20.599 at least two calls a day from desperate women needing help. 1:34:21.000 --> 1:34:23.760 And Yeager was a member of this group and worked 1:34:23.760 --> 1:34:26.080 with them, and they did less illegal stuff though they 1:34:26.160 --> 1:34:30.080 mostly helped with money, makeup, hair styles like changing the 1:34:30.120 --> 1:34:32.840 appearance of people, which is a temporary solution, but they 1:34:32.840 --> 1:34:37.120 worked inside the laws more so Yager helped found it. 1:34:37.479 --> 1:34:39.200 But with these two women. 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:43.439 Sarah King and this woman her last name is Gooch, 1:34:43.800 --> 1:34:46.960 and I don't really know how to be calmer about it. 1:34:48.280 --> 1:34:50.200 And then I also wrote that her name is denied, 1:34:50.520 --> 1:34:54.240 but it must be Denise, Yeah, it must be. It 1:34:54.280 --> 1:34:59.080 can't be denied Gooch. I think it's Denise Gooch. And 1:34:59.160 --> 1:35:03.080 Sarah Kanks she yet sorry. They asked her to leave 1:35:03.120 --> 1:35:06.800 the group. They said she was just too much. She 1:35:06.880 --> 1:35:09.760 was exaggerating numbers, and they didn't want to focus on 1:35:09.800 --> 1:35:12.600 the underground railroad but wanted to focus on her to 1:35:12.600 --> 1:35:16.040 make the system better. They said she had a rough personality, 1:35:16.160 --> 1:35:18.680 they liked her message, by a woman who worked with 1:35:18.720 --> 1:35:22.479 her said the personality hurt their message, so she had 1:35:22.520 --> 1:35:26.040 to go. And the woman Amy Nustein, who said that 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:29.160 as a sociologist, and she wrote a book from Madness 1:35:29.200 --> 1:35:32.240 to Mutiny While Mothers are running from the family Courts 1:35:32.280 --> 1:35:33.439 and what can be Done with it? 1:35:34.080 --> 1:35:34.679 Long title. 1:35:35.160 --> 1:35:37.759 She added that Fay wanted to publicize how desperate people 1:35:37.760 --> 1:35:40.240 were and how the system is failing, like they had 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:42.479 no choice but to run. So she was also trying 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:45.240 to make people aware like the system sucks, but we 1:35:45.360 --> 1:35:47.679 can work within it and help you. And that's according 1:35:47.680 --> 1:35:51.080 to Newsweek. She also made clear to Newsweek that yeah, 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:55.840 you're only took cases that involved documented abuse, so abusive. 1:35:55.479 --> 1:35:57.400 Documented, no hearsay. 1:35:58.439 --> 1:36:00.719 The DA from Cobb County that's her in the early 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:04.680 nineties said someone with good intentions who nevertheless had become obsessed. 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:08.080 And that's LA's time was via AATV and then the 1:36:08.160 --> 1:36:12.120 Mark Group, you know, others against raping children helped. 1:36:12.439 --> 1:36:14.440 Women who led law abiding. 1:36:14.040 --> 1:36:17.400 Lives kind of like live as fugitives honestly, Like they 1:36:17.400 --> 1:36:21.080 had to help women mask their identities only use cash. 1:36:21.160 --> 1:36:22.720 And that's the thing when they're like why don't you leave? 1:36:22.720 --> 1:36:23.439 Why don't you leave? 1:36:23.439 --> 1:36:25.920 And it's like, okay, what does what do these women's 1:36:25.960 --> 1:36:29.880 lives look like outside of it? And then one of 1:36:29.880 --> 1:36:32.080 the solutions is like they should have their own money 1:36:32.120 --> 1:36:32.799 and jobs. 1:36:33.400 --> 1:36:34.160 And it's like the. 1:36:34.080 --> 1:36:36.880 People that are pretending to care about women, it's like 1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:38.920 they want them in the home and dependent on men 1:36:39.040 --> 1:36:42.400 so they can't escape. Yeah, and yet why didn't you leave? 1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:45.360 Why didn't you leave? And it's like, well now she 1:36:45.720 --> 1:36:47.840 can only use cash. She can't use his IDs, no 1:36:47.880 --> 1:36:49.439 credit card, no nothing, like you're true. 1:36:50.000 --> 1:36:52.760 And then not everybody has like their parents to fall 1:36:52.800 --> 1:36:56.000 back on, or a wealthy aunt or like whatever, you 1:36:56.040 --> 1:36:57.960 know what I mean, Like some of these people have 1:36:58.160 --> 1:36:59.680 no family, nowhere to go. 1:36:59.720 --> 1:37:00.600 And that's my. 1:37:00.760 --> 1:37:03.880 Design too, because usually as of people isolate you, so 1:37:04.280 --> 1:37:06.960 it's really fucked up. And then oftentimes the kids don't 1:37:06.960 --> 1:37:09.360 go to school or the doctor dentist or get proper 1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:11.840 nututrician or anything like that because they're on the run. 1:37:12.000 --> 1:37:14.920 So you know, critics say that makes things worse, but 1:37:14.920 --> 1:37:16.479 I don't know what's worse than you know, being like 1:37:16.600 --> 1:37:19.840 raped by your father. So some lawyers are like, well, 1:37:19.880 --> 1:37:22.920 if you go underground and may underscore a husband's charge 1:37:22.960 --> 1:37:25.519 that a mother is vindictive, and then it diminishes her 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:28.599 chances of winning custody. But the only reason she's running 1:37:28.680 --> 1:37:31.240 is because you've already fucked her up. Like, why does 1:37:31.240 --> 1:37:33.720 an abuse and rape seem more vindictive than trying to 1:37:33.760 --> 1:37:37.679 go undercover and deny parental rights to an abuser. It's 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:41.840 fucking crazy. And you know, obviously they're like, but going 1:37:41.880 --> 1:37:44.960 underground fucks them up. It's like they're being abused. And 1:37:44.960 --> 1:37:48.400 then one child psychologist at Harvard, doctor Carolyn Neuberger, said 1:37:48.479 --> 1:37:51.479 sexual abuse erodes a child's sense of identity and control. 1:37:51.760 --> 1:37:55.479 Whisking a child into the underground only further traumatizes the child. 1:37:55.640 --> 1:37:58.880 And that's to the times. And then also just a 1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:01.400 fact is like only one to six percent of child 1:38:01.640 --> 1:38:04.920 abuse claims are fabricated, and that's from a cheat sheet 1:38:04.960 --> 1:38:08.440 from the Center of the Center for Judicial Excellence. 1:38:09.080 --> 1:38:11.680 Yeah, I'm sorry, Like I get it's traumatizing to move 1:38:11.720 --> 1:38:14.360 from place to place and maybe like have a little 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:17.599 some food insecurity, But I agree, it's better than being 1:38:18.240 --> 1:38:21.799 routinely assaulted by your own parent. 1:38:22.880 --> 1:38:25.919 Yeah, so Nick Nick National Center for Missing and Exploited 1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:28.479 Children are like, listen, you can't break the lawn, kidnap 1:38:28.479 --> 1:38:31.200 and interfere with the process, no matter your good intentions. 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:33.960 But in twenty sixteen, Newsweek reported that she still was. 1:38:33.960 --> 1:38:36.200 Running a fourteen room bed and breakfast with her husband 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:39.800 in North Carolina, and she was tracked down thereafter not 1:38:39.880 --> 1:38:43.120 being in the spotlight by the Minnesota Star Tribune. Casey, 1:38:43.200 --> 1:38:47.120 I don't know if you're familiar with them, and so 1:38:47.280 --> 1:38:49.719 at sixty and she was at six, she was sixty 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:51.200 eight years old, and she's talking to news Week in 1:38:51.240 --> 1:38:53.559 twenty sixteen, she goes, oh, I retired from the public eye, 1:38:53.600 --> 1:38:55.800 but I've never given up, and my network's as busy 1:38:55.840 --> 1:38:59.600 as ever. And I just, yeah, attention and media is 1:38:59.600 --> 1:39:02.040 what cost me a lot, But I would never like 1:39:02.080 --> 1:39:04.200 give up my ability to help children and the way 1:39:04.200 --> 1:39:04.840 I want to help them. 1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:06.200 So go fuck yourselves. 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:08.960 And she said she's helped over seven thousand people, but 1:39:09.080 --> 1:39:12.200 it has been just quiet and working. And twenty twenty two, 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:15.160 the FX network created a five episode TV mini series 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:18.800 about fay Acre called Children of the Underground. 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:20.759 In twenty twenty two. I feel like I know everything 1:39:20.760 --> 1:39:21.759 that comes out on e F Facts. 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:24.720 We should watch that, I know. I like it's a creoticy. 1:39:25.880 --> 1:39:27.880 I mean it is true though, like if something like 1:39:27.920 --> 1:39:30.120 this is going to exist, like you can't get pressed, 1:39:30.160 --> 1:39:32.160 like you can't, you know, like you can't. It has 1:39:32.200 --> 1:39:35.080 to be like a whisper network, like people just passing 1:39:35.120 --> 1:39:38.160 your name from place to place and like never anyone 1:39:38.200 --> 1:39:42.560 knowing like who's in charge. But I'm glad she was 1:39:42.600 --> 1:39:45.280 still at it until she died last year. Hopefully she 1:39:45.640 --> 1:39:48.160 passed it on to somebody. 1:39:48.280 --> 1:39:51.720 Yeah. Fuck, that's so crazy, it's really. 1:39:52.400 --> 1:39:57.040 Anyway, thank you for that that dark dark uh. 1:39:56.960 --> 1:39:59.880 And is watching the episode and you're like all these 1:40:00.320 --> 1:40:02.639 like holes and it's like, no, it's. 1:40:02.520 --> 1:40:04.040 Honestly like it could have been worse. 1:40:04.360 --> 1:40:10.640 Yeah, it's like so final crazy, Oh bias. 1:40:10.840 --> 1:40:14.200 Well, we have a great guest, so don't anybody go anywhere. 1:40:21.720 --> 1:40:25.880 Our guest today is nineties television Royalty, A huge part 1:40:25.880 --> 1:40:29.519 of my youth. He portrayed Christopher Lorenzo in the show's 1:40:29.520 --> 1:40:32.679 Silk Stockings, then later was Kyle McBride on melrose Place, 1:40:32.880 --> 1:40:36.120 but you know him today as the psycho with a smile. 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:41.920 Dan Hoffman, please enjoy our combo with the lovely Rob Estes. Hi, Rob, 1:40:41.960 --> 1:40:44.479 how are you good? 1:40:44.680 --> 1:40:46.000 It's so nice to meet you. 1:40:46.439 --> 1:40:50.599 We've still been waiting for this moment for a long time, 1:40:51.040 --> 1:40:52.360 waiting all my life. 1:40:52.920 --> 1:40:57.400 We're I mean, you don't understand. I was a huge Like, 1:40:57.479 --> 1:41:00.840 I was such a melrose Place person, Like, oh, right off. 1:41:01.040 --> 1:41:03.240 When I saw you in this as View episode Younger, 1:41:03.320 --> 1:41:07.920 I was like, not Kyle, although, wait, isn't it just 1:41:07.960 --> 1:41:10.400 to really quickly go to melrose before we get into SVU, 1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:13.559 Like how do they have you playing one guy on 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:15.200 seasons one and two and then they bring you back 1:41:15.240 --> 1:41:17.800 as a totally different guy. I mean they do that 1:41:17.840 --> 1:41:19.639 on SVU all the time, but it's a different kind 1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:20.000 of show. 1:41:20.120 --> 1:41:23.160 I was only I think I was on two episodes, okay, 1:41:23.840 --> 1:41:27.200 season and Aaron. I did a pilot for Aaron Spelling 1:41:27.680 --> 1:41:34.000 with Adrian Brody, Heather Graham, Leon, myself, Clarence Williams was 1:41:34.000 --> 1:41:37.880 a great pilot and it didn't get picked up. And 1:41:37.960 --> 1:41:42.040 Aaron Spelling, He's like, I mean it was long story. 1:41:42.560 --> 1:41:46.479 Somebody really biffed it. But Aaron called one night and he. 1:41:46.400 --> 1:41:50.160 Said, hey, uh, Bob, and we're not going to pick 1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:52.280 this up, but you want to come do Melrose for me? 1:41:52.320 --> 1:41:55.640 And I said, okay, but same character, no, no, no, 1:41:56.120 --> 1:42:00.200 completely different character said I've never done this before, what 1:42:00.240 --> 1:42:03.080 I'm gonna do it? And I said, okay. So that's 1:42:03.360 --> 1:42:05.280 the story of how that happens. 1:42:05.360 --> 1:42:07.800 And it's funny because like, there wasn't social media then, 1:42:07.880 --> 1:42:10.120 so it's not like everybody could be like, wait, isn't 1:42:10.120 --> 1:42:13.640 that Sam like or whatever? You know, like nowadays if 1:42:13.680 --> 1:42:15.519 you do that kind of thing and people go nuts. 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:16.799 But yeah, you get. 1:42:16.720 --> 1:42:19.040 Rich troll you could I think you could do it 1:42:19.320 --> 1:42:22.839 unless they I guess you could if you spun it correctly, 1:42:24.040 --> 1:42:25.760 but I don't know how you'd spin that so that 1:42:25.800 --> 1:42:27.000 people kind of bought it. 1:42:27.640 --> 1:42:30.559 Yeah, so when you do come on to Melrose Place, 1:42:30.600 --> 1:42:32.240 you're married to Lisa Renna. 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:34.759 I was to Lisa Ena correct. 1:42:35.160 --> 1:42:37.880 That's why the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or. 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:43.640 I actually avoid that at all costs, understand, But I 1:42:43.720 --> 1:42:49.639 have to say Lisa is awesome, she's great, She's she's 1:42:49.680 --> 1:42:53.320 a nutbag, right, No, No, I mean she knows she's 1:42:53.360 --> 1:43:01.160 a nutbag. Yeah, she's the most honest, morally sound. I 1:43:01.160 --> 1:43:03.320 would put her in my top ten. She's really awesome. 1:43:03.439 --> 1:43:04.559 We love her. Wow. 1:43:04.760 --> 1:43:06.840 I think her honesty is what gets her in trouble 1:43:06.880 --> 1:43:08.280 on the show. That's for sure. 1:43:08.680 --> 1:43:12.440 I think you're right. But it's also why people love her. Yeah. 1:43:12.479 --> 1:43:14.960 Why she's such you know, a hit in the in 1:43:15.000 --> 1:43:16.040 the social media realm. 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:19.559 She's never been on SVU. She would be so good. 1:43:20.479 --> 1:43:21.320 She would be great. 1:43:22.000 --> 1:43:25.360 Yeah, like a kind of evil mom that's up to 1:43:25.400 --> 1:43:25.920 no good. 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:27.880 Yeah, I want to see her on sv. 1:43:27.800 --> 1:43:30.439 Or maybe she's the one that you're sure didn't but 1:43:30.560 --> 1:43:31.280 she didn't do it. 1:43:31.360 --> 1:43:34.200 Ah, Yes, yeah, she's protecting someone. 1:43:34.960 --> 1:43:38.040 We've had your old co star Kathy Griffin from when 1:43:38.080 --> 1:43:40.280 you were on Suddenly Susan, We've had her on the podcast. 1:43:41.280 --> 1:43:44.160 Yeah. I love Kathy's wild. 1:43:44.640 --> 1:43:49.599 Yeah, she's a funny lady. But you were mentioning this 1:43:49.680 --> 1:43:52.920 thing where you're a murderer. I guess because like when 1:43:53.080 --> 1:43:57.120 I met your character of Kyle on Melrose, you were 1:43:57.160 --> 1:43:59.080 always like kind of you were pretty much like a 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:00.920 nice guy. You were like cheating on your wife and 1:44:00.920 --> 1:44:05.200 doing some cheating. You weren't like murdering yeah, you weren't 1:44:05.240 --> 1:44:08.000 like murderous and so I remember watching you in this 1:44:08.160 --> 1:44:11.080 SBU and being like, oh wait, but he's like a 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:13.559 nice guy. But then you get cast sometimes to play 1:44:13.560 --> 1:44:16.320 these total psychos. How much of your career would you 1:44:16.360 --> 1:44:19.040 say that you've been like nice Scott or like the 1:44:19.160 --> 1:44:21.160 dad on nine O two and oh or whatever the 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:23.439 reboot of nine O two and oh, Like nice guys 1:44:23.560 --> 1:44:26.440 versus like handsome psychopaths. 1:44:27.400 --> 1:44:33.120 I think it depends. I think probably in TV and film, 1:44:33.520 --> 1:44:36.879 I've been a third of my characters are bad guys, 1:44:37.479 --> 1:44:41.519 and then in theater I tend to do more of 1:44:41.280 --> 1:44:47.599 the bad guys. Okay, the extremities I did up in Seattle. 1:44:47.640 --> 1:44:50.000 I did this guy Solioni who ends up killing one 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:54.840 of the leads in Chekhov's Three Sisters Fool for Love 1:44:55.160 --> 1:44:58.640 in Scotland I did and that was pretty intense, you know, 1:44:58.920 --> 1:45:04.559 sleeping with my sister and yeah, bad things, but it's 1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:07.639 it's I really enjoy it. I think I think almost 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:11.960 every actor would rather be a bad guy because it 1:45:11.960 --> 1:45:14.880 gives you freedoms. You don't have the social norms, you 1:45:14.920 --> 1:45:20.440 don't have to be anything other than what the moment demands, 1:45:20.479 --> 1:45:21.639 and it's really fun to. 1:45:21.640 --> 1:45:24.719 Be that as a theater kid. 1:45:25.040 --> 1:45:28.920 Oh no, god, no, no. I was an athlete. Well, 1:45:28.960 --> 1:45:31.639 so I went to Santa Monica High School. So the 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:40.200 theater geeks at my school were Sean Penn, Charlie c She, 1:45:40.479 --> 1:45:44.000 Emilio Estevez so and it was funny because they were 1:45:44.000 --> 1:45:46.760 always on buses making movies and they had squibs, and 1:45:47.200 --> 1:45:51.280 all their dads were producers and and pretty heavy directors 1:45:51.320 --> 1:45:54.759 and actors. So they just it was that was nuts. 1:45:55.040 --> 1:45:56.679 And so I looked at them and I was like, oh, 1:45:57.000 --> 1:45:59.599 that's not my jam. And then I became a stuntman, 1:45:59.720 --> 1:46:00.080 and then. 1:46:00.040 --> 1:46:06.719 And the stuntman to acting. Pipeline, Yeah it's a thick pipe. 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:10.320 Yeah yeah, yeah. 1:46:10.560 --> 1:46:15.200 Sunts were cool. But it's it's really especially now it's 1:46:15.280 --> 1:46:16.200 a tough gig. 1:46:17.560 --> 1:46:17.920 Change. 1:46:19.080 --> 1:46:21.520 I think what's changed If you don't have a specialty, 1:46:21.560 --> 1:46:23.800 If you can't jump a motorcycle three hundred feet in 1:46:23.840 --> 1:46:27.360 the air, that cuts you out for that. If you can't, 1:46:27.400 --> 1:46:30.720 if you're not an MMA fire or so, they're just there. 1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:34.759 There are X game levels of everything, so it's different. 1:46:34.840 --> 1:46:36.599 It used to be you know, you did it all, 1:46:36.680 --> 1:46:38.519 You fell off horses, you got hit by cars, you 1:46:38.520 --> 1:46:40.880 got to set off fire, you were really good at fighting, 1:46:41.360 --> 1:46:43.839 and you could make a living with all of those. 1:46:44.640 --> 1:46:47.879 And now I think across the board in our life, 1:46:47.920 --> 1:46:50.360 like things are just shrunk and you have to have 1:46:50.400 --> 1:46:55.080 an absolute ten at one thing and you can go. 1:46:55.640 --> 1:46:56.040 Yeah. 1:46:56.200 --> 1:46:59.400 Also, also I feel like not a lot of longevity, 1:46:59.479 --> 1:47:01.720 and like in the field you get like injured or 1:47:01.920 --> 1:47:02.519 you get older. 1:47:02.680 --> 1:47:05.640 But I think I think the stunts ultimately you have 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:08.719 those years where and it is it's really safe. 1:47:09.040 --> 1:47:09.759 It's interesting. 1:47:10.680 --> 1:47:14.080 You spend most of your time keeping yourself and people 1:47:14.479 --> 1:47:19.960 really safe, but you end up coordinating stunts, so you 1:47:20.080 --> 1:47:20.920 might not be doing that. 1:47:21.080 --> 1:47:24.320 Oh got it. So then you become like the coach essentially, you. 1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:26.840 Guys want a stable of people that you used for this. 1:47:26.920 --> 1:47:29.000 You got a guy who looks just like Tom Cruise. 1:47:29.760 --> 1:47:32.320 So and actually those are the guys that end up 1:47:32.520 --> 1:47:35.599 being the coordinators of the guys that have attached themselves 1:47:35.640 --> 1:47:36.400 to big stars. 1:47:36.800 --> 1:47:37.560 Yeah. 1:47:37.840 --> 1:47:41.080 Wow, I like seeing the photos of step Doubles and 1:47:41.120 --> 1:47:42.000 their people together. 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:45.880 I had a guy named Nut for a show that 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:49.759 I did for twelve years. No that's not true, six years, 1:47:50.120 --> 1:47:52.120 and it was we we just we went up the 1:47:52.160 --> 1:47:54.439 path together for a really long time, and then he 1:47:54.600 --> 1:47:57.080 was like, dude, I got I'm doing all these other things. 1:47:57.120 --> 1:47:59.679 And I was like, good for you. So it's cool 1:48:00.280 --> 1:48:03.040 if you have good people, and he was really exceptional. 1:48:03.200 --> 1:48:08.439 Well you also in this episode Sandra Bernhardser lawyer that 1:48:08.560 --> 1:48:09.879 fun is was that fun. 1:48:10.479 --> 1:48:15.080 Well, you know, she had such a a reputation of 1:48:16.120 --> 1:48:18.160 I mean before I ever got there. So I got 1:48:18.200 --> 1:48:20.200 this episode because Neil Bear. 1:48:20.479 --> 1:48:22.320 We knew it. We knew it, we reached out to 1:48:22.880 --> 1:48:24.160 So I reached out to Neil. 1:48:24.240 --> 1:48:26.840 He's done our podcast twice, so I reached out to 1:48:26.880 --> 1:48:28.760 him and I said, oh, we're doing this desperate as 1:48:28.800 --> 1:48:30.800 this episode desperate. We're going to have Rob estays on. 1:48:30.840 --> 1:48:34.120 But I wanted to ask him a question about the episode. 1:48:33.800 --> 1:48:35.880 And he goes, I love Rob. Tell him. I say, hi, 1:48:36.040 --> 1:48:38.600 So this is a hello from Neil Bear to you. 1:48:39.120 --> 1:48:43.160 I love he What a good guy. Yeah, we mean 1:48:44.000 --> 1:48:46.240 the fact that on er, the fact that he's a 1:48:46.280 --> 1:48:50.639 doctor right doing his rounds and he's also writing what 1:48:50.800 --> 1:48:56.280 happens in the day to him in his practice. He's 1:48:56.360 --> 1:49:00.000 writing er and he does that and he becomes the executs, 1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:06.439 the producer, and then he's funny because you've got time 1:49:06.479 --> 1:49:07.240 for a side story. 1:49:07.479 --> 1:49:07.679 Yeah. 1:49:07.760 --> 1:49:09.400 Yeah, So George Clooney. 1:49:09.479 --> 1:49:16.599 George Clooney added absolute apex for er Neil Bear had 1:49:16.760 --> 1:49:21.880 hired me to do a pilot called Outreach and it 1:49:22.000 --> 1:49:25.559 was about a kind of like like a George Hooney 1:49:25.600 --> 1:49:28.840 type doctor who's living in Venice and he's down on 1:49:28.880 --> 1:49:33.360 his luck. And uh it was it was me and 1:49:33.439 --> 1:49:34.280 it was me and Mickna. 1:49:35.320 --> 1:49:39.240 When I'm looking at the IMDb for it, yeah. 1:49:39.120 --> 1:49:44.960 So but it didn't get picked up. And but the 1:49:45.040 --> 1:49:46.720 day I got cast and he was like, hey, I 1:49:46.760 --> 1:49:48.240 want you to come. I want you to come sit 1:49:48.439 --> 1:49:50.880 come watch the r I want you this is gonna happen, 1:49:51.000 --> 1:49:52.559 Like this new show is going to be this, So 1:49:52.640 --> 1:49:55.360 let's go watch. I'm sitting there watching and we go 1:49:55.400 --> 1:49:58.120 to lunch at the cafeteria and George Clooney is sitting 1:49:58.120 --> 1:50:00.839 there and he's in his talks. I think it's the episode. 1:50:00.880 --> 1:50:02.559 I think it's one of those episodes where he's like 1:50:02.800 --> 1:50:06.760 in the talks and he saves the day or whatever. Yeah, 1:50:06.840 --> 1:50:09.040 we sit down and we just start talking and he 1:50:09.200 --> 1:50:12.400 was so cool and then he's like, hey, come play 1:50:12.439 --> 1:50:16.000 basketball out at lunch. And I was like, okay, but 1:50:16.600 --> 1:50:18.720 what an amazing dude. But anyway, the show didn't get 1:50:18.720 --> 1:50:22.479 picked up, and Neil said, hey, about three years later, 1:50:22.560 --> 1:50:25.519 he said, I'm doing this this show the SPU. When 1:50:25.560 --> 1:50:27.160 you come to an episode, you get to be a 1:50:27.160 --> 1:50:29.040 bad guy. And I was like, yeah, I would love to. 1:50:29.280 --> 1:50:30.880 I knew it was an offer. I knew you did 1:50:30.880 --> 1:50:34.639 an audition for this, like you're so perfect in it, 1:50:34.880 --> 1:50:38.680 and yeah, it's so good, so scary go back to 1:50:38.720 --> 1:50:39.559 Sandra Bernhard. 1:50:39.760 --> 1:50:43.839 Everybody like, you know, I was in an acting class 1:50:43.880 --> 1:50:46.559 and they were like, hey, Sandra's supposed to be really 1:50:46.600 --> 1:50:49.960 tough to work with, and you know, if she can 1:50:49.960 --> 1:50:53.959 get under your skin, you're in trouble. And I'm like, really, shit, Okay, 1:50:54.560 --> 1:50:56.479 I don't know what to expect. She could not have 1:50:56.560 --> 1:50:57.080 been cooler. 1:50:59.200 --> 1:51:01.000 Yeah, and she's it was great. 1:51:01.320 --> 1:51:04.720 She knew what she wanted and totally like you know, 1:51:05.040 --> 1:51:08.559 just back and forth and she was great. So you know, 1:51:08.960 --> 1:51:10.679 you can talk, you can talk a lot of shit. 1:51:11.520 --> 1:51:12.080 Yeah. 1:51:12.800 --> 1:51:15.840 I know that you shot this like literally twenty three 1:51:15.920 --> 1:51:17.840 years ago or something, but do you have any like 1:51:18.520 --> 1:51:21.280 do you remember doing this like scene with Marishka where 1:51:21.320 --> 1:51:23.320 you're like you didn't have a badge and a gun, 1:51:23.360 --> 1:51:25.200 you wouldn't be talking to me like this like you 1:51:25.200 --> 1:51:27.280 were kind of that's like, that's like sort of where 1:51:27.280 --> 1:51:29.559 you face crack a little bit and we see that 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:32.680 you're not this father of the Year guy that you're 1:51:32.680 --> 1:51:34.240 trying to like show everybody that you are. 1:51:34.920 --> 1:51:36.639 Yeah, I'm trying to remember. 1:51:36.640 --> 1:51:37.000 I remember. 1:51:37.000 --> 1:51:42.120 It was really cool and they were cool. 1:51:42.320 --> 1:51:43.080 They're a good tea. 1:51:43.320 --> 1:51:47.840 I think that's why that show's done so well. Yeah, 1:51:47.880 --> 1:51:51.559 and they were hilarious, like I can't what's his. 1:51:51.640 --> 1:51:54.200 Name, sorry, Christopher Maloney, Kristph. 1:51:54.280 --> 1:51:57.639 Yeah, Chris was like, hey, you do that Silk Stocking show. 1:51:58.000 --> 1:51:59.960 You did that Silk Stocking show. I love that fuck 1:52:00.080 --> 1:52:02.680 the show. I was like, yeah, I did, I did 1:52:02.720 --> 1:52:05.680 that show. He's like, yeah, it was great. It's just 1:52:05.720 --> 1:52:08.120 like you know, it's kind of like what we do here. 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:11.000 It's like a you know, a male female cop team. 1:52:11.080 --> 1:52:14.519 I'm like, yeah, but you guys did really well. But 1:52:14.640 --> 1:52:16.280 he was cool. They were both great. 1:52:16.439 --> 1:52:18.920 Yeah, Silk Stockings was like a lot used it. One 1:52:19.000 --> 1:52:22.240 hundred episodes of that that's was on for That used 1:52:22.240 --> 1:52:25.639 to be on the USA Network when I was a kid, 1:52:25.720 --> 1:52:28.400 before the Law and Order SPU became the only thing 1:52:28.439 --> 1:52:29.920 that's on the USA network. 1:52:30.000 --> 1:52:32.360 And it was it was I think I think Silk 1:52:32.400 --> 1:52:37.040 had been dead for two years. And interestingly enough, Stephen 1:52:37.120 --> 1:52:42.519 Cannell who produced Silk Stockings. He he also did twenty 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:45.360 one Jump Street book Er. He did so many shows 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:49.080 and CBS was going to put our show on prime 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:55.679 time and weeks before it happened, Segansky changed his mind. 1:52:55.720 --> 1:52:58.800 He's like, he said to Candle, you know what a 1:52:58.880 --> 1:53:02.400 cable show. If I bring a cable show onto my network, 1:53:02.720 --> 1:53:05.960 it makes me look like my network isn't great. And 1:53:06.080 --> 1:53:09.080 we were like, you're like what, and he said, yeah, 1:53:09.120 --> 1:53:11.800 I can't do it. If this was if this was 1:53:11.840 --> 1:53:14.679 a show on a different network, maybe, but I can't 1:53:14.720 --> 1:53:18.280 do it. And it was funny because now it's the opposite, 1:53:18.720 --> 1:53:22.040 you know, And he had a chance to break complete, right, 1:53:22.760 --> 1:53:25.360 he just kind of I get it, Dough. I get 1:53:25.840 --> 1:53:28.679 the temperature was a little different back then and cable 1:53:28.960 --> 1:53:32.559 was a weaker thing, but man, it would have blown up. 1:53:32.800 --> 1:53:33.680 He would have killed it. 1:53:34.200 --> 1:53:36.120 Yeah, it's like one of those shows that's like now 1:53:36.120 --> 1:53:38.240 if it's on cable and it goes to Netflix. Now 1:53:38.280 --> 1:53:41.600 everybody's like rediscovering like suits or something, you know. 1:53:41.800 --> 1:53:43.479 Yeah, and you could have toned it down. I Mean 1:53:43.520 --> 1:53:46.000 one of the reasons SO did well as a late 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:50.759 night was it crimetime after Primetime? I think was the Moniker. 1:53:51.880 --> 1:53:54.800 It did well because we pushed envelopes. Now every show 1:53:54.800 --> 1:53:57.519 push is envelope. Yeah, it was just I think it 1:53:57.560 --> 1:54:01.439 was just bear too ahead of the time. I think 1:54:01.840 --> 1:54:04.400 had we been on Fox, Fox, who've done it because 1:54:04.400 --> 1:54:07.559 they were already realizing that pushing an envelope is what. 1:54:08.120 --> 1:54:11.160 Yeah, they were doing all that nypdlu stuff. 1:54:12.000 --> 1:54:15.799 Yeah, Hardian says were getting smarter than were used to seeing, 1:54:16.360 --> 1:54:20.120 you know, kind of a little frisky your life a 1:54:20.160 --> 1:54:20.920 little more fire. 1:54:21.479 --> 1:54:21.719 Yeah. 1:54:21.760 --> 1:54:25.080 When they showed Dennis Franz's butt on NYPD Blue and fell, 1:54:25.320 --> 1:54:27.920 it was like a watershed moment in television. 1:54:28.520 --> 1:54:29.719 How good was that show? 1:54:29.800 --> 1:54:31.160 I mean that was that? 1:54:31.360 --> 1:54:33.280 Like you that was the thing, Like everybody was always 1:54:33.280 --> 1:54:35.720 talking about the thing that happened on NYPD Blue that 1:54:35.760 --> 1:54:38.440 you had never seen on you know, network TV before. 1:54:39.040 --> 1:54:39.480 Yeah. 1:54:39.680 --> 1:54:42.480 So and SVU now does stuff that I'm like, I 1:54:42.480 --> 1:54:44.640 can't believe this isn't on HBO. I mean like they 1:54:44.680 --> 1:54:47.200 some of this stuff is like really graphic, like really 1:54:47.240 --> 1:54:49.760 and you're like, you know, but you're right, like your 1:54:49.800 --> 1:54:51.720 show was pushing it before they were pushing it. 1:54:52.360 --> 1:54:55.760 Nope, So do you remember kind of no, you know, 1:54:55.840 --> 1:54:57.480 how do you play a person you know as a 1:54:57.520 --> 1:55:01.200 psycho evil but does have this good guy I persona 1:55:01.320 --> 1:55:06.600 to everybody but these detectives or you play it like 1:55:06.640 --> 1:55:07.720 you think you're the good guy. 1:55:08.560 --> 1:55:11.320 Yeah, you I mean, I think I think the majority 1:55:11.320 --> 1:55:13.480 of people who do bad things think that they are 1:55:13.840 --> 1:55:14.560 good guys. 1:55:14.800 --> 1:55:15.120 Yeah. 1:55:15.400 --> 1:55:19.760 I mean you're lying because you have to to help. 1:55:20.680 --> 1:55:24.600 I mean there's probably a partner's head that that if 1:55:24.640 --> 1:55:27.280 he was convicted for this murder, his son was going 1:55:27.320 --> 1:55:30.560 to have a really bad life and I wouldn't be 1:55:30.600 --> 1:55:35.600 around for him. And yeah, but you're just everything. Yeah, 1:55:35.680 --> 1:55:37.360 when you play everything's. 1:55:37.000 --> 1:55:42.000 Okay, it comp right, they can and then I think 1:55:42.040 --> 1:55:45.280 it's it's when you know, these guys are put in 1:55:45.360 --> 1:55:48.520 a situation that they cannot talk their way out of, 1:55:48.600 --> 1:55:52.000 or buy their way out of, or manipulate their way 1:55:52.000 --> 1:55:54.160 out of, then then it changes. 1:55:54.400 --> 1:55:57.680 Yeah, because he was the King of Rye, the King. 1:55:59.280 --> 1:56:01.640 Do you want to talk about your upcoming projects? 1:56:02.200 --> 1:56:06.200 Yeah, I would love to the stars. It's with Andy Garcia, 1:56:06.840 --> 1:56:16.360 Alec Pettifer. Oh yes, cast shot at in Puglia, Italy 1:56:17.800 --> 1:56:19.840 for a month and a half, which was super fun. 1:56:20.000 --> 1:56:23.920 He was very enjoyable. And it's just about a young 1:56:23.960 --> 1:56:29.240 writer who has lost his art. He's lost his way 1:56:29.440 --> 1:56:33.680 and he's I play his agent. That's just you know that, 1:56:34.200 --> 1:56:36.520 who cares if you've lost your way? Make me money, 1:56:36.760 --> 1:56:39.280 just write something. It's not about art. It's about let's go, 1:56:39.440 --> 1:56:43.920 let's publish. I need I need money. But good things 1:56:43.920 --> 1:56:48.880 happened to him and uh Andy Garcia is hilarious. Oh 1:56:48.960 --> 1:56:51.880 my god. I was like, he came up with a 1:56:51.920 --> 1:56:55.800 couple of things that were so good and I'll you know, 1:56:55.800 --> 1:56:59.360 if he had his son come and be with him 1:56:59.360 --> 1:57:03.000 in Italy for uh I think a couple of weeks 1:57:03.520 --> 1:57:06.760 of filming and they had they just seem to have 1:57:06.800 --> 1:57:10.360 like the coolest relationship because it's like an old kid. 1:57:10.640 --> 1:57:13.720 He's like twenty something and you know, Andy had him 1:57:13.760 --> 1:57:15.920 in one of the scenes and directed him. It was 1:57:15.960 --> 1:57:18.720 it was really cool. We had a good time filming it. 1:57:19.480 --> 1:57:21.080 That's amazing. You got to go to Italy. 1:57:21.560 --> 1:57:24.600 I got hey, I got to go to Italy. Yeah, 1:57:25.160 --> 1:57:26.840 I got to go to Italy. 1:57:27.000 --> 1:57:29.400 Where where is this movie? Is this going to have 1:57:29.520 --> 1:57:31.080 theatrical or is it going to be streaming? 1:57:31.240 --> 1:57:33.600 Yes, so it's going to be on Netflix. Oh great, 1:57:34.320 --> 1:57:37.040 and I believe it comes out November seventeenth. 1:57:37.160 --> 1:57:37.640 Awesome. 1:57:38.120 --> 1:57:42.480 Perfect. Yeah, it's it's cool, it's it's it's it's family, 1:57:42.560 --> 1:57:49.360 it's it's about love and what's important, which I think 1:57:49.440 --> 1:57:51.120 is a good topic for these days. 1:57:51.240 --> 1:57:54.960 Yeah, this episode comes out the next day, so you 1:57:55.000 --> 1:57:57.120 guys can all go watch under the Stars. 1:57:57.240 --> 1:57:58.200 Now. 1:57:58.880 --> 1:58:01.440 Wait, but you also just did a movie called The 1:58:01.480 --> 1:58:05.680 Italians kind of a theme the theme happening I did. 1:58:05.800 --> 1:58:09.280 That was fun. That was that was a low budget 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:15.080 what I say, pet project or I just I love 1:58:15.160 --> 1:58:18.040 the character. Uh. Sometimes you get a script and you 1:58:18.080 --> 1:58:20.480 read it, you go, I might not be right for this, 1:58:20.600 --> 1:58:22.600 but I don't care. This is this is gonna. I 1:58:22.600 --> 1:58:24.200 know exactly what I want to do with this. 1:58:24.440 --> 1:58:24.760 Yeah. 1:58:24.880 --> 1:58:27.600 And one of those, and it was just it was 1:58:27.600 --> 1:58:30.760 a labor of love and it was a lot of 1:58:30.920 --> 1:58:34.240 blast with it. Just ripped it out in like twenty 1:58:34.240 --> 1:58:36.600 eight days of of fun. 1:58:37.640 --> 1:58:39.880 Wait, well then I'm like, what's the character? 1:58:40.920 --> 1:58:47.640 So I play an Italian husband who may have cheated 1:58:47.720 --> 1:58:50.320 on his wife. It's still love it. 1:58:50.840 --> 1:58:55.120 But he may not have Okay, I love that. 1:58:55.400 --> 1:58:56.840 It was a little bit up in the up in 1:58:56.840 --> 1:59:00.360 the air, but you know, Abigail Breslin. 1:59:00.160 --> 1:59:03.920 In it, she's in an s vu as a really 1:59:03.920 --> 1:59:05.840 little girl, like a long time ago. 1:59:06.040 --> 1:59:07.280 It's one of the best ones. 1:59:07.520 --> 1:59:09.400 She did a scene in Times and I was like, 1:59:11.280 --> 1:59:13.200 I mean she took something that was just okay and 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:16.880 she made it so good. Yeah, and no Wonder You're 1:59:17.000 --> 1:59:19.040 who you are? That was brilliant. 1:59:19.240 --> 1:59:24.520 So what are these movies that are like you're always 1:59:24.560 --> 1:59:28.880 playing the same person, like After Everything, After Ever, Happy, 1:59:28.920 --> 1:59:30.600 After We Fell, After We Collided? 1:59:30.640 --> 1:59:34.480 What are those? That is a series of books written 1:59:34.520 --> 1:59:42.800 by Anatod with Hero Fine uh oh in Joseph Fine 1:59:43.240 --> 1:59:46.720 Landford Langford and so it was huge. It was like 1:59:49.040 --> 1:59:51.560 I think there were seven books. I was in five 1:59:51.720 --> 1:59:58.000 of the films and it was just like young angsty 1:59:58.640 --> 2:00:00.240 love and What Things Caught. 2:00:00.160 --> 2:00:04.960 You sort of like soapy movies kind of totally but 2:00:05.080 --> 2:00:09.640 teen drama, okay, really pushing it, like pushing the envelope. 2:00:10.800 --> 2:00:15.200 One of the Sprouses is in one of them. He's like, yes, famous, yeah. 2:00:15.600 --> 2:00:18.640 You know he and hero are are became good friends. 2:00:18.720 --> 2:00:23.560 And then Beautiful Wedding that Dylan's in he's the star 2:00:23.640 --> 2:00:28.360 of those two that kind of came off. One of 2:00:28.400 --> 2:00:32.360 the producers of After went and then did Beautiful Wedding 2:00:33.640 --> 2:00:34.920 and we're directors as well. 2:00:35.400 --> 2:00:38.080 Wait, so when you go do these movies, is it 2:00:38.160 --> 2:00:40.400 are these like in Vancouver or you guys go to 2:00:40.440 --> 2:00:42.320 like Cool Islands or where are you doing these? 2:00:42.440 --> 2:00:42.800 Uh? 2:00:42.920 --> 2:00:44.960 The team these teen movies. 2:00:45.880 --> 2:00:53.600 Uh, Beautiful Wedding was in Dominican Republic and then the 2:00:53.720 --> 2:00:57.680 After series one was in Atlanta and the other were 2:00:57.760 --> 2:01:03.600 during COVID. Oh, during COVID in Bulgaria. So we all 2:01:03.680 --> 2:01:05.920 we got the top two floors of this high rise 2:01:05.960 --> 2:01:09.200 and we all got tested three times a day, and 2:01:09.480 --> 2:01:12.720 ultimately we all got COVID because one person I've got 2:01:13.040 --> 2:01:16.640 the knight that Biden got kind of sworn in. We 2:01:16.720 --> 2:01:18.920 had a party and it happened to be Hero's birthday 2:01:20.760 --> 2:01:23.800 and we've all been quarantined for so. 2:01:23.720 --> 2:01:25.840 You're like, how could we have it? Yeah, he was wrong. 2:01:25.960 --> 2:01:28.040 Sad You're already wearing a mask and you're getting tested 2:01:28.040 --> 2:01:30.720 at the times and nobody's got it. But I remember 2:01:31.240 --> 2:01:34.880 that night is Hero's birthday. We had a party and 2:01:34.960 --> 2:01:37.680 we'll look like we're playing games and it's pretty on 2:01:37.840 --> 2:01:40.360 cast and remember looking over at one point and we 2:01:40.360 --> 2:01:43.839 were drinking looking over and I'm like, all these twenty 2:01:44.080 --> 2:01:46.480 two to twenty six year olds were kind of tackling 2:01:46.520 --> 2:01:50.480 each other on the floor. I just remember growing myself. Wow, 2:01:50.560 --> 2:01:55.360 that's that's like a COVID cocktail right there. The next morning, 2:01:55.760 --> 2:01:59.040 the lead actress tested positive. By the end of the day, 2:01:59.320 --> 2:02:03.480 three other people and then I didn't get it until 2:02:03.680 --> 2:02:06.600 eleven days later, but we were all quarantee, like we 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:09.760 had to stop filming. Oh my god, I think it's 2:02:09.760 --> 2:02:11.240 tri but it was fun. 2:02:11.320 --> 2:02:16.200 And then you're just in Bulgaria for a week in 2:02:16.320 --> 2:02:17.680 a hotel trying to get better. 2:02:17.760 --> 2:02:19.640 Oh my god, it was fourteen days. 2:02:19.680 --> 2:02:22.080 I was in food in, food out for fourteen days. 2:02:22.080 --> 2:02:22.720 Oh my god. 2:02:23.800 --> 2:02:24.120 Stuff. 2:02:25.160 --> 2:02:26.560 Yeah, what a time. 2:02:27.080 --> 2:02:30.520 I feel like, unless you have any last minute memories 2:02:30.600 --> 2:02:32.560 of SVU that are popping into your mind that you 2:02:32.560 --> 2:02:33.240 want to give. 2:02:33.080 --> 2:02:36.720 Our listeners, we'll let you get on with your day. 2:02:37.360 --> 2:02:39.640 If you happen to talk to Neil Beer again, tell 2:02:39.720 --> 2:02:41.240 him that I send. 2:02:41.040 --> 2:02:43.480 My best I will message him right now and tell 2:02:43.560 --> 2:02:45.080 him for sure we're obsessed with him. 2:02:45.720 --> 2:02:50.360 But you are one of the classic SVU villains that 2:02:50.400 --> 2:02:52.400 have stood the test of time. I mean, we're they're 2:02:52.440 --> 2:02:56.440 on season twenty seven, and you're still so very memorable. 2:02:55.960 --> 2:02:58.480 That someone had to go through an underground railroad to 2:02:58.640 --> 2:03:01.000 escape you. I mean it's like, that's really diabolic. I 2:03:01.000 --> 2:03:03.680 get chills in that scene every time I watch. 2:03:03.440 --> 2:03:05.280 It, Like, I, I. 2:03:05.320 --> 2:03:08.320 Really love this episode, so thank you for doing this. 2:03:12.520 --> 2:03:15.680 He was handsome, he was fun. It was a thrill. 2:03:16.040 --> 2:03:18.360 I would be a thrill. What a lovely guy. 2:03:18.760 --> 2:03:21.040 And I was like, if I could have told like 2:03:21.680 --> 2:03:23.320 twelve year old Cara that she was going to be 2:03:23.320 --> 2:03:27.320 talking to Kyle on a podcast, she would have said, 2:03:27.320 --> 2:03:28.600 what's a podcast? You know? 2:03:29.200 --> 2:03:31.320 So yeah, tell us if you want to be the Tommies. 2:03:31.440 --> 2:03:34.760 I also do really like the idea of dumpster sluts, 2:03:35.000 --> 2:03:39.440 but I understand, wasn't that what it was? 2:03:39.520 --> 2:03:44.480 Trash slut? It was it was dumpster dumpster slut. 2:03:44.800 --> 2:03:49.840 Maybe yeah, I think, no, Tommy, if you guys tell us, 2:03:49.920 --> 2:03:51.520 tell us, tell us if you guys want to be 2:03:51.560 --> 2:03:53.880 the Tommies. I kind of love the TMU Tommies. I 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:57.160 think that that's fun. But wigh, And maybe we'll do 2:03:57.200 --> 2:03:58.960 a poll when this episode comes out and see if 2:03:58.960 --> 2:04:00.720 you guys want us to be people have been sending 2:04:00.720 --> 2:04:04.160 in more suggestions, but to me, the Tommies are kind 2:04:04.160 --> 2:04:04.720 of it. 2:04:06.280 --> 2:04:08.640 I hope they love it. We'll see what they feel. Oh. 2:04:08.680 --> 2:04:11.360 Also, I don't know that no show as a hold 2:04:11.400 --> 2:04:13.720 on me like this one. But anytime a new season 2:04:13.720 --> 2:04:16.160 of Selling Sunset drops, my day is done and I 2:04:16.640 --> 2:04:17.600 watch it all in one day. 2:04:17.960 --> 2:04:18.520 Wow. 2:04:18.640 --> 2:04:20.760 I've never seen it enough in it selling, so I 2:04:20.760 --> 2:04:23.360 can't get enough, and I have the reunion waiting for me. 2:04:23.480 --> 2:04:25.760 I feel like Salt Lake City. I'm back in, I'm 2:04:25.960 --> 2:04:29.400 I'm back in, I'm in. But Selling Sunset takes over 2:04:29.520 --> 2:04:32.440 my life for a day. Every time I can't not watch, 2:04:32.480 --> 2:04:35.560 I don't. I don't split it into two days ever. 2:04:35.920 --> 2:04:38.960 Wow, it's like a must watch, must binge get it 2:04:38.960 --> 2:04:39.200 all in. 2:04:39.320 --> 2:04:41.800 I never have seen it for a second. I don't 2:04:41.800 --> 2:04:43.760 think you would like it. I think you'd be really 2:04:44.200 --> 2:04:44.960 not into it. 2:04:45.440 --> 2:04:45.760 Really. 2:04:46.800 --> 2:04:49.919 Yeah, it's just like I don't think you'd like the houses. 2:04:50.000 --> 2:04:51.560 I don't think you'd like the outfits. 2:04:51.680 --> 2:04:52.360 I don't know. Maybe. 2:04:52.560 --> 2:04:56.080 Well, now now I feel like it's reverse psychology. And 2:04:56.080 --> 2:04:57.360 now you're like, oh, you don't think I like it, 2:04:57.400 --> 2:04:58.440 I'm gonna fucking watch it. 2:04:58.520 --> 2:05:02.600 Yeah, now I'm gonna watch it and fe No, I 2:05:02.640 --> 2:05:05.480 mean I got you know, I have, like I liked 2:05:05.640 --> 2:05:06.960 Kroshelle on The Traders. 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:10.400 She's on that, Oh yeah she is, and she doesn't 2:05:10.400 --> 2:05:12.760 give a fuck, like she lets people have it. But 2:05:12.800 --> 2:05:15.360 there was one person she went below thet She just 2:05:15.440 --> 2:05:17.320 said something crazy and they had to kick her off 2:05:17.320 --> 2:05:19.680 the show. But she will not take accountability. And she 2:05:19.800 --> 2:05:23.040 straight up goes, Krishelle, maybe you're projecting because of your 2:05:23.120 --> 2:05:26.160 you know, drug addict parents and they both had just died, 2:05:26.320 --> 2:05:28.040 and so everyone's like, you. 2:05:27.880 --> 2:05:28.440 Have to leave. 2:05:29.200 --> 2:05:32.160 Wait, someone Chrishelle said that too. Someone said that to 2:05:32.240 --> 2:05:36.440 Chroshelle and had to leave. Yeah, she's just like not 2:05:36.560 --> 2:05:39.600 good on television. This other woman whoa what. 2:05:39.440 --> 2:05:40.600 Was her name? Nicole? 2:05:41.600 --> 2:05:46.160 Oh yeah, and one of Nick Cannon's baby mama was 2:05:46.200 --> 2:05:48.680 on it too, one of the many. 2:05:48.880 --> 2:05:52.520 Okay, all right, wow, I don't know. Yeah, my mom 2:05:52.600 --> 2:05:57.440 said she watched it. No, no, that was the different one. 2:05:57.520 --> 2:05:59.680 That was the one on a Bravo one. She was 2:05:59.680 --> 2:06:01.960 watching a Bravo what's the one with the boat with 2:06:02.000 --> 2:06:03.640 the men the Oppenheim. 2:06:03.640 --> 2:06:07.560 Yes, Oppenheimer is selling Sunset and it is on Netflix. 2:06:07.960 --> 2:06:11.080 But what about a million dollar, million dollar listing. 2:06:11.240 --> 2:06:13.080 I think my mom watched Out on a plane once 2:06:13.120 --> 2:06:15.200 and she said it was so hilarious. She thought it 2:06:15.240 --> 2:06:19.040 was a joke. The whole thing she doesn't understand anyway. 2:06:19.480 --> 2:06:23.920 The post mortem on this show, this episode is women 2:06:24.000 --> 2:06:26.760 are really organized and can do great things. Uh, and 2:06:26.840 --> 2:06:29.520 that men are terrifying, Right, I guess that's the bottom line. 2:06:30.920 --> 2:06:35.040 Really scary episode. I hold on to it forever, just 2:06:35.200 --> 2:06:39.200 like the trickery of it all and the acceptance of like, yeah, 2:06:39.240 --> 2:06:39.920 he's a great guy. 2:06:40.040 --> 2:06:41.320 Yeah the bitch ran off. 2:06:41.440 --> 2:06:44.640 It's like what the whole town is just under his 2:06:44.880 --> 2:06:47.560 like baby blue spell, baby blue Eyes spell. 2:06:48.120 --> 2:06:50.040 Yeah. Yeah. 2:06:50.080 --> 2:06:53.800 And I always think of this episode when people are like, 2:06:54.920 --> 2:06:56.760 why didn't you just leave? You should have just called 2:06:56.800 --> 2:06:58.040 on and you should just leave, you know. 2:06:58.360 --> 2:06:58.920 It's like. 2:07:00.520 --> 2:07:07.200 Don't. Yeah, It's it's really crazy the way humanity, like 2:07:07.200 --> 2:07:09.400 like why are you even blaming this person who didn't 2:07:09.440 --> 2:07:12.080 leave when this person's beating them? Like I just don't 2:07:12.120 --> 2:07:16.040 even get the like the conversation. But you know, I'm 2:07:16.080 --> 2:07:23.800 pretty hardcore. Yeah, they have hardcore, And I mean the 2:07:23.880 --> 2:07:27.160 cases I mean we're talking about hard to leave. I mean, 2:07:27.240 --> 2:07:29.520 to take a two day old baby, to take a 2:07:29.520 --> 2:07:31.880 two day old baby. Think that's what's good for the baby, 2:07:32.520 --> 2:07:36.000 because this dude hit her Like fuck, I can't. 2:07:36.080 --> 2:07:38.280 I really don't understand the world. 2:07:38.560 --> 2:07:38.920 I know. 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:41.600 I just don't know you could. 2:07:41.360 --> 2:07:44.480 Do that neglect or neglect they want to get out, 2:07:45.040 --> 2:07:49.560 give the more care, help people leave, I believe. 2:07:49.720 --> 2:07:51.200 But I also love that with Fay. 2:07:51.280 --> 2:07:54.200 Everyone's like her personality was terrible and we did have 2:07:54.280 --> 2:07:56.600 to uh do a separate group. 2:07:58.800 --> 2:08:01.520 She did help kids, but boy was she a pill? 2:08:01.960 --> 2:08:06.800 Was she a bitch? Yeah? 2:08:05.920 --> 2:08:09.520 All right, yeah, why do women have to be likable? 2:08:09.680 --> 2:08:10.640 Go fuck yourself? 2:08:11.120 --> 2:08:13.000 I mean it was also like how bad was her 2:08:13.080 --> 2:08:15.160 personality or was she just pushy? It's like the way 2:08:15.160 --> 2:08:18.320 everybody's always like Rosie O'Donnell was a bitch on her show, 2:08:18.400 --> 2:08:20.000 Katie Kirk was a bitch on her show. 2:08:20.160 --> 2:08:21.720 Meredith Vieira was a bitch on her show. 2:08:21.720 --> 2:08:23.040 It's like, or were they or were they just the 2:08:23.040 --> 2:08:25.560 Boston You didn't like that Rosie. 2:08:25.680 --> 2:08:30.400 I wonder when she'll get the like kudos that she deserves. 2:08:31.000 --> 2:08:34.800 Yeah for being right about everything decades ahead of time, truly, you. 2:08:34.840 --> 2:08:37.640 Know, just I feel sad that she left America that 2:08:37.720 --> 2:08:39.280 she's in like Ireland now, well. 2:08:39.240 --> 2:08:42.400 The president bullies her, so I know she has to leave. 2:08:42.840 --> 2:08:45.600 I know it makes me sad because I'm like, you 2:08:45.640 --> 2:08:49.240 should shouldn't have to relocate countries because of our bully 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:49.960 ass president. 2:08:50.040 --> 2:08:55.760 But did you read this teen Vogue? It's is it Vogue? 2:08:55.800 --> 2:09:00.280 It's oh my god. Honestly teen Vogue fired everyone their 2:09:00.320 --> 2:09:03.200 politics team. I mean the fact that Barry Wei's this 2:09:03.320 --> 2:09:06.480 dumb bitch at CEBIA. Every black person's fired. They only 2:09:06.560 --> 2:09:11.000 kept white people. It's like, I can't it's it's so sickening. 2:09:11.080 --> 2:09:15.280 It's so sickening it's happening, and I wonder and people 2:09:15.360 --> 2:09:16.520 still seem to be in denial. 2:09:16.560 --> 2:09:17.640 I don't think our listeners. 2:09:17.720 --> 2:09:22.560 But yeah, but the reason I was shocking it was 2:09:22.640 --> 2:09:24.280 but it was you know what I mean, It's like 2:09:24.360 --> 2:09:26.520 that's that's the whole. 2:09:26.280 --> 2:09:30.200 Point, Like, yeah, what's truly shocking anyone anymore? 2:09:30.480 --> 2:09:33.960 It's Oh, they don't want they don't want it, and 2:09:35.040 --> 2:09:37.120 we all need to just be doing hobbies, you know, 2:09:37.200 --> 2:09:39.960 because the internet technology is about you know, we'll not 2:09:40.120 --> 2:09:41.520 we're not gonna have electricity soon. 2:09:42.360 --> 2:09:44.800 You guys got to get beads, you gotta get hobbies. 2:09:44.840 --> 2:09:46.640 You got to get my bunker ready, and I only 2:09:46.640 --> 2:09:48.880 have like forty dollars cash on me at any given time. 2:09:48.880 --> 2:09:51.760 I'm fucked, plus my glasses. I need to get Lasick 2:09:51.800 --> 2:09:52.800 before the apocalypse. 2:09:52.880 --> 2:09:56.200 I know, but people people don't love lace, I mean Lasik. 2:09:56.480 --> 2:09:58.680 I know. Wait, what's the documentary? Is it out? 2:09:58.720 --> 2:10:02.200 I want to watch the Lasik documentary. There's a Lasick documentary. Yeah, 2:10:02.200 --> 2:10:04.720 there's They go if people the Bleeding Edge. Oh it's 2:10:04.760 --> 2:10:06.920 from twenty eighteen. Oh broken eyes. Saw some of them 2:10:07.040 --> 2:10:08.920 posts this thing where she says I got lasick. It 2:10:08.960 --> 2:10:12.080 worked amazing. I have eye pain every single day, every day. 2:10:12.120 --> 2:10:15.880 My eyes ache. Yeah, I was like, that sounds awful. 2:10:16.200 --> 2:10:19.640 Dark underbelly of billion dollar industry. They basically say like 2:10:19.840 --> 2:10:23.320 if people knew the percentage of people where it's not good, 2:10:23.440 --> 2:10:24.720 it would net people would. 2:10:24.480 --> 2:10:27.360 Never do it. Oh fuck, okay, well for me, but 2:10:27.560 --> 2:10:29.840 the end of the world, you can't really have glasses either. 2:10:30.200 --> 2:10:32.280 I know what am I gonna do? I have three pairs, 2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:35.040 but my kids will break them if I get's like 2:10:35.080 --> 2:10:37.840 the fake teeth like people getting veneers. I'm like, honey, 2:10:38.040 --> 2:10:39.800 what if you don't have ten grand in a little 2:10:39.800 --> 2:10:42.040 bit you're getting you're gonna. 2:10:41.880 --> 2:10:45.240 Have those sharp little pointy guys coming out. It's fucked, 2:10:45.240 --> 2:10:45.800 it's fussy. 2:10:45.880 --> 2:10:47.880 They were cooked, as the youth said, I don't even 2:10:47.880 --> 2:10:48.680 know where you say that. 2:10:48.760 --> 2:10:48.960 Rose. 2:10:49.000 --> 2:10:52.440 He keeps saying that, Oh that's really that you're cooked, 2:10:52.480 --> 2:10:55.000 and I'm like, oh my god, Rosie. 2:10:55.080 --> 2:10:56.920 Sus cooked everything. 2:10:57.160 --> 2:11:02.360 That's so fucking cute. Listen, we all have to help 2:11:02.400 --> 2:11:05.880 each other. And if you see someone that's going through 2:11:05.880 --> 2:11:10.920 domestic violence, slip the guy's throat statut of jail. 2:11:11.000 --> 2:11:13.880 Oh, I hope your abuser dies. Yeah, And I don't know. 2:11:13.840 --> 2:11:16.000 What I'm doing with my life, but I've been watching 2:11:16.080 --> 2:11:19.520 YouTube like the Most Dangerous Woman in Prison, and it's 2:11:19.520 --> 2:11:22.160 like about women that kill, and thirty to forty percent 2:11:22.280 --> 2:11:24.960 of women in prison killed like an abuser. 2:11:26.120 --> 2:11:28.280 Yeah, I don't think any of them should be in prison. 2:11:29.040 --> 2:11:31.440 No, But then they have to go like, oh there 2:11:31.480 --> 2:11:35.760 was a blood spot, but basically like, yeah, women stabs 2:11:35.800 --> 2:11:38.040 one three hundred times. But I've just been watching interviews 2:11:38.080 --> 2:11:41.600 and of women in prison and they're just so sad. 2:11:42.640 --> 2:11:45.000 Oh it's not like the cell bloc tango. I'm telling 2:11:45.040 --> 2:11:48.560 you no. And then he ran into my knife. He 2:11:48.680 --> 2:11:51.160 ran into my knife twelve times. I don't even remember 2:11:51.160 --> 2:11:51.920 how many times it is. 2:11:51.960 --> 2:11:54.720 But yeah, but one woman, I don't I think it 2:11:54.760 --> 2:11:55.880 was DV. I don't know. 2:11:55.920 --> 2:11:57.720 I don't think she should have gotten what she got. 2:11:57.760 --> 2:12:00.240 But the way she got caught was they have like 2:12:00.240 --> 2:12:02.600 a secret camera where they put her with her grandma 2:12:02.640 --> 2:12:04.000 and she was like talking to her grandma, and her 2:12:04.000 --> 2:12:06.480 grandma kept going stop talking. And then it's like Miranda rights, 2:12:06.480 --> 2:12:10.080 but only if you're under arrest, so like, if you're 2:12:10.080 --> 2:12:11.520 not under arrest, they don't have to read you your 2:12:11.560 --> 2:12:14.480 Miranda rights and they can film you, so like you can't. 2:12:14.480 --> 2:12:17.120 You shouldn't if you're arrested, you shouldn't say anything anywhere 2:12:17.160 --> 2:12:21.760 in the precinct to anyone. Yeah, hopefully don't commit a crime, 2:12:21.960 --> 2:12:25.160 don't murder, do that. And a lot of them are 2:12:25.160 --> 2:12:28.600 mothers and like, and then they have like there's like 2:12:28.640 --> 2:12:31.760 a mother's wing on one of the prisons, and when 2:12:31.800 --> 2:12:33.360 they go to visiting day they have to have a 2:12:33.360 --> 2:12:37.280 guard with them to protect the kids because you're allowed 2:12:37.280 --> 2:12:37.680 to have kids. 2:12:37.680 --> 2:12:39.000 I don't know, it's just. 2:12:40.440 --> 2:12:40.480 It. 2:12:41.080 --> 2:12:42.880 I don't know why I've been watching it, but I've 2:12:42.880 --> 2:12:47.200 been watching just Women in Prison on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, 2:12:47.240 --> 2:12:51.520 that's it's scary sounds secary and sad. Yeah, I don't 2:12:51.520 --> 2:12:53.880 know why I'm doing it. I should stick a selling 2:12:53.920 --> 2:12:56.440 Sunset and Salt Lake City Housewives. 2:12:57.520 --> 2:12:59.560 Okay, I think that's a perfect segue though into our 2:12:59.560 --> 2:13:01.520 what would Say Peg do this week? 2:13:01.960 --> 2:13:02.920 Or what would Sister Peg Do? 2:13:03.120 --> 2:13:06.840 Is our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization, 2:13:07.120 --> 2:13:09.640 a book, a movie, something to give you more information 2:13:09.800 --> 2:13:11.800 on what we talked about today and this week, we 2:13:11.840 --> 2:13:15.280 wanted to point you to Underground Railroad, Inc. Which is 2:13:15.320 --> 2:13:18.200 a provider of emergency shelter and services for victims and 2:13:18.240 --> 2:13:23.560 survivors of intimate partner violence that operates out of Saginaw, Michigan. 2:13:24.640 --> 2:13:28.760 They provide services for survivors of domestic violence, stocking, sexual assault, 2:13:28.800 --> 2:13:31.280 and human slavery. They also have a twenty four hour 2:13:31.400 --> 2:13:35.680 helpline for victims of domestic abuse and if you happen 2:13:35.720 --> 2:13:38.360 to live in Michigan, they provide emergency shelter, but there's 2:13:38.360 --> 2:13:42.520 a lot of resources at their organization for anyone across 2:13:42.560 --> 2:13:45.360 the country. So for more info or to donate, head 2:13:45.360 --> 2:13:50.560 on over to Underground Railroadinc. Dot org and that will 2:13:50.560 --> 2:13:53.000 be linked in our show notes as usual and then 2:13:53.640 --> 2:13:57.960 posted forever on Shared on our Instagram page That's Messed 2:13:58.040 --> 2:14:02.720 Up Pod as a story and saved forever inner WWSPD highlights. 2:14:02.640 --> 2:14:03.720 And thank you for that. 2:14:04.080 --> 2:14:09.760 And next week we'll be doing Blast season seven, episode thirteen. Oh, 2:14:09.800 --> 2:14:14.520 it's such a good episode. We really I like this podcast. Yeah, 2:14:14.560 --> 2:14:17.520 thanks for listening, guys. We like this podcast. We like 2:14:17.560 --> 2:14:18.000 you guys. 2:14:18.040 --> 2:14:21.280 Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. 2:14:29.600 --> 2:14:31.800 That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. 2:14:32.200 --> 2:14:34.320 If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or 2:14:34.400 --> 2:14:36.600 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 2:14:36.640 --> 2:14:39.960 it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to 2:14:40.040 --> 2:14:42.920 That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 2:14:42.960 --> 2:14:44.400 wherever you get your podcasts. 2:14:44.560 --> 2:14:47.720 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, 2:14:47.960 --> 2:14:50.600 and follow us personally at Kara Klank and. 2:14:50.720 --> 2:14:51.640 At glitter Cheese. 2:14:52.080 --> 2:14:54.760 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 2:14:54.800 --> 2:14:55.440 more information. 2:14:55.880 --> 2:14:58.839 Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien 2:14:59.040 --> 2:15:02.080 and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain. 2:15:01.840 --> 2:15:04.440 And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker 2:15:04.480 --> 2:15:07.640 Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song 2:15:07.760 --> 2:15:10.680 and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to 2:15:10.760 --> 2:15:14.880 our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and 2:15:15.000 --> 2:15:16.600 everybody at Exactly Right Media. 2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:18.320 Dun dun,