WEBVTT - Avenger | 4. The Planes 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Hello, Avenger listeners, It's Steve Fishman and I'm really glad 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.120 you've tuned in. I hope you love this show as 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.200 much as we do. A quick word on an upcoming 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:14.160 bonus episode. We're doing a bonus with Miriam, the real Miriam. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.720 We'll be asking her questions, your questions and getting answers. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.840 She'll update us on what's going on in her world 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.040 and a lot has Please email your questions or thoughts 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:32.840 or comments too. Info at Orbitmedia dot fm. Oh and 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.120 Fisher Stevens can answer your questions too. He's our co 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.639 founder and resident Oscar winner. He's an actor you saw 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.520 him in Succession and director of actors like al Pacino 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.760 and Justin Timberlake. For Avenger, he directed Alexis Bledel, who 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.720 voices Miriam. If we're lucky, Alexis who was the star 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.400 of Gilmore Girls and Handmaid's Tale and is the daughter 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:01.639 of an Argentine. We'll chip in answers to so let 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.600 us know your thoughts and questions, hopes and prayers. Info 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:12.399 at Orbitmedia dot fm. Thanks a quick word on this production. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.080 Orbit goes wherever we find great stories. This one happened 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.360 to be in Argentina. Which posts some challenges for our 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.520 small but powerful English dominant company. But we teamed with 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.480 Sonoro Media, a Spanish language podcast company, to do some interviews, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:34.320 and we hired our own completely bilingual production staff, led 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.320 by the Great Andres Cabajero. In this episode, Gean Carlo 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.440 and Miriam meet the person who might complete their team. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.880 A quick word about subscriptions. If you love ads, listen on. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.080 If you're not so keen on ads, sign up for 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:55.080 True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. That's our subscription channel. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.800 You'll get no ads, and also you can binge the 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.800 entire event your series. It's just two ninety nine a month. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:04.480 Thanks. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.880 Before we begin, please note that for this story we 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.000 interviewed Medium and everyone else for dozens of hours in Spanish. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:22.560 We hired actors to voice their words in English between jokes, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.200 pasta and coffee. The search for the planes used during 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.880 the dictatorship continues slowly, a lot slower than Medium and 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:35.040 jih Gadlo would like. They fall into a routine. After 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:39.000 Medium's day job, she goes straight to Jihangadlo's apartment. They 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:44.080 keep investigating with zero funding, zero outside help, even from 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.400 Canal Trece the TV channel Medium works for. At this point, 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.280 all Medium and Jihgadlo have is each other. 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.840 Every time we come across a new piece of information, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.400 it's just pure joy. 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.840 Days become weak, then months it's dragging, and finding the 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.520 planes is getting harder. That initial burst of enthusiasm is 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.520 fading and their lives start getting in the way. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.200 I was so busy at the newsroom. Sometimes I struggled 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.480 to make it to Giancarlo's apartment, or sometimes Giancarlo had 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:21.080 to leave for some assignment abroad. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.040 Things start to fizzle. They're hitting a wall with sources 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:26.399 finding new information. 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.120 The last information we had come across was from the 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.400 nineteen eighties. By that point we knew the type of 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.120 planes that were used, the Electras and the sky Vans. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.320 We had also identified how many they had bought of 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.600 each model, but we had no way to find where 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.720 they were now. We started losing hope. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.160 One afternoon, the apartment is silent, just Medium and Giancarlo 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.920 scaring the internet again. Then they stumbled on this obscure 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:57.760 corner of the web. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.960 We discovered word the spotters. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.360 People who as a hobby, track specific planes around the world. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.360 They build logs and websites mapping out their sightings. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.520 These spotters were like our Hansel and Gretel. They left 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:15.920 behind breadcrumbs for us. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.320 And we start finding the missing details about the planes. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.560 From orbit media. I'm Andres Kaba Schedo. This is Avenger 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:47.880 the story of Medium Lewin Episode four the planes. As 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.919 Medium and Giancarlo continue with the investigation, they contemplate sharing 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.720 some of their findings with others, people who had also 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.960 dug into the death flights. One of the first people 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.360 that comes to gian Cardlo's mind is an act from 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.600 a movie he had seen about a young activist kidnapped 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:12.919 by the Junta. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.880 This film had a huge impact on me. It really 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.120 helped me understand that part of Argentina's history at the 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:21.160 much deeper level. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.760 The movie Gachio Limpo, named after a torture center, portrays 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.360 a key protagonist of the Junta, Jorge Eduardo Costa, nicknamed 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.720 Eltigre the Tiger. In real life, he was the head 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.919 of ESMA, the Navy's mechanics school where Medium was held, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:43.040 and Eltigre is played by Enrique Pinedo, an Italian born 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:44.640 Argentine actor and producer. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:52.880 Cambreea the acting for me was always a pseudo hobby. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.160 It all started back in school. I was the lead 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:01.240 in a school play, school play that took itself very seriously. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.719 Enrique was eighteen years old when the junta's ak over 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.440 almost medium's exact age. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.040 I was studying medicine. He was three am when we 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.640 heard the first report about the coup. My dad was 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:23.440 away too. He was hopeful that something good would come 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.839 of it, but I told him, are you crazy? This 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.119 is going to be a slaughterhouse. At eighteen years old, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:31.480 I had that hindsight. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.560 Enrique was among the Argentines who were appalled by what 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.760 was happening, but who kept their heads low, and really 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.360 there weren't many options unless he wanted to risk being disappeared. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.640 We are the ones that did not have the courage 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.479 to stick our heads out. Those who did got their 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:54.760 heads cut off. And everyone between the ages of eighteen 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.880 to twenty five was a target. And the fact is 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:03.040 all the crimes that during that period or not going away, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.920 so any chance we have to announce them, we take it. 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.800 The film Garaje Olimpo was all about that. 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.280 About the relationship between capture and prisoner and the risk 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:20.440 of being put on a death flight. Enrique brought authenticity 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.200 to the production. He was a pilot. He knew all 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:25.160 about planes. 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.360 The thing is that my real passion has always been planes. 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.920 When I was three years old, I was already a pilot. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.880 Had no license, of course, but I knew everything I 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.040 needed to know to be one. And if this sounds ludicrous, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.680 just bear with me. Before getting deep into movies. Enrique 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.000 had become a pilot for Lappa, an Argentine airline. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.239 During his time there, Rique had denounced ir regularities inside 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.600 the airline and then resigned. Two months later, one of 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.320 their planes crashed. Sixty seven people died. It is the 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.760 worst aviation accident of Argentine history. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.040 Enrique isn't the type to let something go. He isn't passive, 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.520 so he writes and directs a film about the accident. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.240 I wanted to tell the story about what led to 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.480 the accident. I was interested in showing what information the 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.440 airline was hiding. It wasn't fair to put all the 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.040 blame on the pilots. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.400 He had a strong moral compass and his reasons to 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.760 make that film revealing what was behind the tragedy. You know, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.400 but all that aside. Enric was an expert complanes. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.120 And from a very wealthy family. In a recent newspaper interview, 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.080 Enrique was asked where his fortune came from. 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.160 Yes, well, I did well when I chose my grandfather. 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.400 His grandfather helped lead an Argentine conglomerate that's been around 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:55.560 for more than eight decades. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.760 Enrique is the son of one of Argentina's rich families. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:06.120 They'd start businesses and then turn them into multinational enterprises. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.480 So for Medium and gian Carlo, if they could interest 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.959 in Enrique in their investigation, there might be a perk funding. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.680 There was also a surprising link between Enrique and Medium. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.960 When I watched his film about the plane crash, which 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.160 was very well made, I was surprised to see myself 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:32.199 in it. At the end of his film, Enrique used 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.800 archival footage, a clip of me confronting an airline executive, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.000 you know, following him through the streets, asking the hard 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.080 questions about the plane crash. 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.720 Medium asks the executive if he thinks he's made any mistakes, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:50.600 if he has regrets. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:57.520 Sadly, Argentine journalism is very passive, but Miriam had this 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:02.480 interview that was just incredible. I had to include it 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:03.160 in the film. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.640 Giancarlo convinced me it was a good idea to gauge 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.280 his reaction to our investigation, the information we had gathered, 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.040 see if he thought we were actually onto something. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.559 So Giancarlo invites Endrique and Medium over for dinner and we. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.160 Show up at Giancarlo's apartment at the same time. He 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.280 asked me what type of wine I had brought. I 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.960 showed it to him. It was a cheap bottle from 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.960 the supermarket. And then he shows me his bottle with 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.040 an elegant French label imported. I shrug and I say, 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.840 I guess I can't compete, and he laughs and says, 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:42.880 no chance. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:51.079 I remember going to Giancarlo's apartment. He made pasta ala matriciana. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.040 He thought it was fabulous, but I thought it lacks something. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.080 It was fairly average. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.600 He's obnoxious, but Jiancadlo sees beyond that. 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.560 Sure Rika has a huge ego, but it was always 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.560 so eager to put his own skin in the game. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.400 Giancadlo greets them and they start talking about the planes 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:16.760 they had identified, three Lectras and three sky Vans. They 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.240 asked Enrique if they would have a chance at tracking 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.680 down the pilots of the dead flights with the intel 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:22.360 they've gathered. 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.439 I told Enrique, I really think we can get to 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.240 those planes, and then the pilots. The air force wasn't 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.400 that big. Plus how many pilots trying to fly those 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.760 specific planes could there be? 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.600 Enrique starts sipping his wine. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.160 I told him he was right. Not every pilot can 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.760 fly any plane. They also have limited time that they're 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.520 able to fly. But the real challenge, the real key, 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.400 is finding a paper trail that links names planes and flights. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.600 In other words, they needed to find an official list 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:02.000 of the pilots or any type of flight and technical log. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.240 That night, and Rique made great points. I felt that 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.200 we were onto something, we were headed in the right direction, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.360 and that he joined our team. But I was wrong. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.000 The thing is, I'm not one to just throw my 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:23.200 money at stuff. 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:29.240 I remember a deep sigh from him, followed by a 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:35.920 gentle rejection. He just wasn't interested. We were really disappointed 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.679 that day, almost thought about just quitting the investigation. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.040 On one list, there was a plane called Rio Grande. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.240 He was one of the electors. When we started digging 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.679 into it, we found out that for more than a 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.480 decade he had just been sitting there, more or less 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.160 right under our noses here in Buenos Aires. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.359 This was the third and final Electra on their list. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.720 The other two one was in a military museum, the 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.880 other had been decommissioned and sold for parts in Patagonia. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.000 So the plane in Buenos Aires was the only one 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.280 they had direct access to that may still hold clues 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.720 about its past, the death flights. They have to see 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:25.280 the plane for themselves, but there's a snag. Jianggadlo has 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.800 to go to Italy for an assignment. Medium will have 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:29.480 to go alone. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:36.360 Just thinking about it made me dizzy noxious. It's like 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.000 my body was warning me, telling me, don't you dare 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:45.520 go look at that plane. But Giancarlo insisted. He called 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.240 me from Rome to make sure I went to see it, 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.640 and I promised him. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.960 I'd go, and she does. But since Giancadlo isn't around, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.960 they call a cab driver. They'd befriended Gustao. He and 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:00.480 Medium have a lot in common. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.880 His brother was also a victim during the Dirty War 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.559 and kidnapped, just like me. The story was so familiar. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.840 When we got closer to the plane, it was so weird, 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:21.320 Rusted pieces of metal everywhere and all sorts of industrial machinery. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.280 It's striking to stow too. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.440 I remember seeing a bunch of old pinball machines and 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.920 some pool tables in between the scraps. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.120 The plane comes into view, or at least what's left 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.800 of it once it conquered the sky and now is 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.080 just a more or less carcass. 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.880 We stood there for a minute in silence. That was 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:51.160 a death plane right there, Like with everything in Argentina, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.880 where do you hide an elephant in a house of elephants? 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.280 There was so much junk in there, and a big plane. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.280 I've passed by there more than ten times. I could 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:04.600 never have imagined this. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.720 From the car, Medium can see the plane's cargo door. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.400 She imagines people being shoved through it into the sea. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.480 It was clear Medium was flooded with emotions. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.840 Medium orders Gustavo to stop the car. He resists. 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.160 He was trying to convince me to go in, but 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.080 I couldn't do it. I told him to keep driving. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.600 As they drive off, the plane seems to stare back 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.280 at Medium silently in the rear view mirror, hinting something like, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.240 you got close, didn't you. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:46.240 I was shocked. Medium had seen everything. She'd been in 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.600 the Argentine Auschwitz, you know, the worst place in all 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.640 of Argentina, and she simply could not go near that plane. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.600 I couldn't help but think about how this plane had 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.960 carried people I had once embraced. 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.840 Even though medium couldn't force herself to go near the plane, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.760 at least she was able to verify its existence. And 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.640 by then they had located all of the electors. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.440 So with all the electors accounted for now we start 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:20.600 looking at the sky vents. 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.040 Then we see that one of the sky vents is 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:30.360 still active, still flying in for the Lauderdale, Florida. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.720 This is the first plane they've identified that is still 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.960 flying and no longer owned by the Argentine military. It 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.040 could have logs information about its past. But the high 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.160 from the discovery doesn't last long. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.240 So I am reading Parhinadose, a major newspaper, and I 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.920 see an article where this journalist had started looking for 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.200 the planes used in the death flights, and he had 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.840 done his homework. He had a lot of the same 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.080 information he had, not only that he had actually visited 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:08.200 the Elektra at the Junkyard. I was furious. I couldn't 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.800 believe it. Giancarlo and I had been working on this 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.919 story in secret for so long, and then another publication 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.400 comes out with this story. I knew we had. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.000 To act fast. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.720 In the next episode, I storm into my boss's office, 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.760 a Canaldre, I hand him the article and tell him 0:17:32.080 --> 0:18:03.520 we're getting scooped on a huge story. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.200 From Orbit Media. This is Avenger, the story of Medium Luin. 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.480 I'm your host and senior producer andres CAAA Schedo. The 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.360 series was produced by Seguiel Rodrie Sandino and edited by 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:08.400 Monica Campbell. Original score Nicolas Paschela, mixing and mastering Christopher 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:14.160 Hoff and Austin Smith. Assistant producers Andres Feschtenholz and Eleanna Gillespi. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:19.880 FactCheck Alejandro Marinelli and leonardos Canone. Legal review Neil Rossini, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.160 Casting director Paula Gammon Wilson. The executive producers from Orbit 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:30.600 Media are Steve Fishman Fisher, Stevens, Marcy Wiseman, and Katie Springer. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.879 The voice actors in Avenger include Alexis Blodel as Mediam Lewin, 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.399 Fulvio de la Volta as Giancarlo Siraudo, Gonzalo Vargas as 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.200 Enrique Pinedo, Edgardo Manono Castro as Bruno Vain and Tom 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:50.800 Schubert as Carlos Macosmiliana and Gustavo. This podcast was produced 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:56.240 in association with Sonodo. The Sonoto executive producers are Camilla Victoriano, 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.960 Joshua Weinstein and Jasmine Bromedo. The rest of the Sonoda 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:05.560 production team includes Senior producer Carmen Gratol, editor Rodrigo Crespo, 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:11.600 Producer Paloma Navarro, Nicoletti, Evelyn Uribe, Marianna Cornello, Sara Mota, 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:17.000 Manuel Para, Hanna Baram and Tasha Sandoval. Special thanks to 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.000 Radio and Casa and Pomeraanec Recording Studios in Buenos Aires, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.920 and to Medium Lewin and Giancarlo Serraldo for letting us 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.919 tell their story. Thank you for listening. 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.440 A quick word about subscriptions. If you love ads, listen on. 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.480 If you're not so keen on ads, sign up for 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:03.280 True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts no Ads and also bingeability. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:07.240 You can hear the entire Avenger series all at once. 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.320 It's just two ninety nine a month.