1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,120
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,760
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode, So every episode

4
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,760
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,480
Speaker 3: Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. It's

11
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,880
Speaker 3: me James today and I am very lucky to join

12
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 3: by Garrison. Iige. Hello, Hi Garrison. I've summoned you here

13
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 3: today to talk about boats, a topic that white men love.

14
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,839
Speaker 3: But we're not going to talk about like going out

15
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 3: on the lake and looking for bass today. I've only

16
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,600
Speaker 3: done bass fishing ones. It's not for me.

17
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 4: Do you hold up the fish for the picture? Do

18
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 4: you do the picture?

19
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: I wasn't blessed with a bass on that trip, but

20
00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 3: I did get to It was very interesting because a

21
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 3: guy had like a purple boat with gold flex in it.

22
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,400
Speaker 3: It didn't represent who I thought he was as a person.

23
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 3: Turned out, actually he had a boat sponsorship and he

24
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 3: was going to sell it. But ah, it was a

25
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,200
Speaker 3: cool boat. I got to drive that boat pretty fast

26
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 3: through some doughnuts and stuff. So that's another thing that

27
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 3: calls to a part of my soul. I want to

28
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 3: talk about private maritime security today. The reason why, of course,

29
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 3: is that Iran is currently attacking boats in the Strait

30
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 3: of Horn Moves and elsewhere.

31
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:29,320
Speaker 5: Right.

32
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 3: There's some boats were attacked in portant Basara yesterday. We're

33
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 3: recording this on Thursday. At the time of recording, they

34
00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,600
Speaker 3: have attacked six boats. It's more likely than not that

35
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 3: there will be more boats attacked by the time you

36
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,759
Speaker 3: are listening to this. It's been a really bad week

37
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:46,880
Speaker 3: for boat guys.

38
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,120
Speaker 4: It's been a bad year for boats in general.

39
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 3: Oh, Venezuela, Yeah, yeah, let's talk about private maritime security.

40
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 3: So like, when these boats are transmitting the Strait of

41
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 3: Horn Moves, right, the United States has offered and then

42
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 3: rescinded the offer to escort them through the straight up

43
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 3: hor Moos. It's very unlikely that the United States is

44
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,959
Speaker 3: going to be able to sufficiently escort every boat that

45
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 3: goes through the State of hormor Moves. And this is

46
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,399
Speaker 3: a longstanding issue, right, I think probably lots of listeners

47
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 3: won't be aware of the long history of private security

48
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 3: on ships. Right, I'm only going to talk about this

49
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 3: in the context of the twenty first century, but this

50
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 3: goes a lot further back. It's largely a consequence of

51
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,080
Speaker 3: the way the law governs the ocean. It's actually the

52
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 3: same Wow. Sorry, yah, daddy long legs. I don't know

53
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 3: if it's an American word for that that. I don't know,

54
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Daddy long legs. That's okay, Yeah, absolute unit has just

55
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,359
Speaker 3: entered my office space. A world LM be the reason

56
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 3: that we can have private security contractors, often with machine guns, etc.

57
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 3: On boats. It's the same reason that horrific labor abuses

58
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 3: are perpetrated on boats on a daily basis. Right, Perhaps

59
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,959
Speaker 3: the most well documented are among the most well documented

60
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 3: are the ones off Thailand on fishing ships, which often

61
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 3: involve Burmese refugees or people fleeing Mianma. Right there, essentially

62
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 3: enslaved on these boats or in sort of indentured servitude

63
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 3: of trying to quote unquote pay off their trip out

64
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 3: of the country they were fleeing. Right, I'm not talking

65
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 3: about labor abuses today. I want to talk more about

66
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 3: private security. Most of security provided two boats in the

67
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,920
Speaker 3: world in general is not provided by states. It is

68
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 3: provided by private military contractors. Right earlier on in the

69
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 3: twentieth century, the typical profile of one of these people

70
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 3: would have been that they'd left the military and a

71
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 3: state in the global north. They had found let's say,

72
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,760
Speaker 3: life for employment in the civilian world to be difficult

73
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 3: for them. And I've met a number of these people

74
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 3: in a number of places. Many of them went to

75
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,160
Speaker 3: parts of Africa thinking that they were going to work

76
00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 3: protecting wildlife and then ending up protecting large container ships instead,

77
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 3: or attempting to work for a company that would one

78
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 3: day let them protect wildlife or something similar. Generally, the

79
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 3: companies they end up working for are generally referred to

80
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 3: as private maritime security companies pmsc's, as opposed to PMC

81
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 3: private military contractor, although it is a version of the

82
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,479
Speaker 3: same thing. Generally, these companies offer a shipping company a

83
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 3: sort of package, and it's not just armed. Security also

84
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 3: include stuff like intelligence, crisis response, and potential intervention. I

85
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 3: spoke to someone, for instance, who had worked for a

86
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 3: shipping company and his major job was to deal with

87
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 3: when people were kidnapped off the boats. He would then

88
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 3: either go and rescue the people or negotiate with the

89
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,679
Speaker 3: people who would kidnapped them.

90
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 4: These are like cargo ships, oil tankers, like what kind of.

91
00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so mostly there are on large commercial vessels, right,

92
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 3: cargo ships, oil tankers, things with an expensive cargo, although

93
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,159
Speaker 3: it is not unheard of. For pms. For instance, you

94
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 3: may have a maritime security company to secure your large

95
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 3: mega yacht, sure right, or another boat that you're worried about.

96
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,280
Speaker 4: Did these happen on my cruise ships? Sometimes?

97
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 3: Yes, there was. There was a shootout in the early

98
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 3: two thousand so I shoot out, it's probably private security

99
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 3: characters on it. I think it was an Italian cruise

100
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 3: ship fired at pirates who are attempting to board the

101
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 3: cruise ship. Huh. It's a lot less uncommon than you

102
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 3: would think.

103
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 4: So when we're planning the twenty twenty eight Cool Zone

104
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 4: Media Cruise all all access included, we're going to have

105
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,600
Speaker 4: to contact with one of these companies.

106
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 3: I think we can probably bring that in house. I

107
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,679
Speaker 3: think that that would be the goal at that point.

108
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 3: Right within the Greater iHeart Ecosystem Garrison, we have so

109
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,280
Speaker 3: many automatic weapons you don't listen to the like a

110
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:59,039
Speaker 3: Belfed machine Gun podcast, the iHeart Militia, it's US and

111
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 3: Ted cruise and where we haven't really agreed on very

112
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 3: much other than gun ownership, maybe we should talk about

113
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,719
Speaker 3: when the real reason like PMSCs took off in the

114
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 3: twenty first century was the rise in piracy off Somalia.

115
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 3: Right before this, piracy had existed mostly in Southeast Asia.

116
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 3: On piracy has guested for as long as people going

117
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,039
Speaker 3: on boats has existed, right but specifically paracy off Southeast

118
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 3: Asia had before this been more of a like a

119
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,280
Speaker 3: smash and grab kind of situation, like turn up, take

120
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,359
Speaker 3: what you can leave. What was distinct in this piracy

121
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 3: that we began to see from like two thousand and

122
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,239
Speaker 3: eight onwards was that pirates were either trying to see

123
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 3: the entire cargo of a vessel the vessel itself, or

124
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 3: to kidnap people from the vessel and hold them for ransom.

125
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 3: I guess the most high profile case was called the Mayerscalabama.

126
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 3: Are you familiar with this one?

127
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 4: No?

128
00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 3: Okay? This is that's good because you get to hear

129
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 3: a story. I don't keep up with piratenews dot org. Really,

130
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,360
Speaker 3: I can see you being like pirate curious, No, you're

131
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 3: not interested in.

132
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 4: I've always had kind of a love hate relationship with pirates, Okay,

133
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,119
Speaker 4: you know, undeniably cool in some way, also a little

134
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 4: bit messy.

135
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 3: They can be messy. Yeah, yeah, lots of lots of

136
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 3: overlap between pirates and anarchism. I'm sure you've this is true.

137
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, some of my same critiques there for you both sides.

138
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I can also be messy.

139
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 4: As soon as the pirates all start wearing matching black suits,

140
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:30,760
Speaker 4: then we can talk.

141
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 3: And I think that's inherently like the piracy isn't about that.

142
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 3: Piracy is about self expression. That's the thing, got it?

143
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I see, Well.

144
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, great, disagree. I like I like a diverse pirate

145
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 3: outfit personally, in this case, a small vessel, right. I

146
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 3: think they had four or five pirates. They had like

147
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 3: pretty basic weaponry, write like kalashnikovs. I think they boarded

148
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 3: the mess Galabama. The boat had a pirate alarm, and

149
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 3: they sounded the pirate alarm. In this you have to

150
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 3: struggle to repress your like eighteenth century like mind palast right. Yeah, yeah,

151
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 3: the crew sheltered in. They had like a safe room. Yeah,

152
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 3: they went in this safe room. Well, they captured the

153
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 3: captain of the ship pretty quickly. The ship didn't have

154
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 3: any means of defending itself other than it tried to

155
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 3: like I'm not a massive boat, understander, It tried to

156
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 3: use its rudder to swamp the pirate ship as it

157
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 3: was coming up, so like kind of flick it that

158
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 3: that didn't work. Yeah, And one member of the ship's

159
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:42,079
Speaker 3: crew who hid himself with a knife and successfully subdued

160
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 3: and captured the leader of the pirates, and the crew

161
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 3: then attempted to trade this person for their captain. They

162
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 3: tied up the pirate who they had captured, attempted to

163
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 3: trade him for their captain. The pirates took the leader

164
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 3: of the pirates that then never gave the crew their

165
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 3: captain and then made off in a lifeboat with a

166
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 3: large amount of cash and the captain. This resulted in

167
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 3: a standoff. Now, the Meskalabama was I believe a US

168
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 3: flagged ship. It may have been a US Dutch ship,

169
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,680
Speaker 3: but it was flagged to like a nation in the

170
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,439
Speaker 3: major in the global north right. This would become relevant later.

171
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 3: The United States sent two boats which proceeded to engage

172
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 3: in a standoff with the lifeboat for several days, where

173
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 3: they first attempted to drop a SAT phone and a

174
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 3: mobile phone to the pirates in the lifeboat. The pirates

175
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 3: through those in the ocean because they thought that they

176
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,560
Speaker 3: were using them to communicate with the captain of the ship.

177
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,320
Speaker 3: At one point, the captain, who they'd held hostage, ended

178
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 3: up in the ocean, but then he got back into

179
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 3: the lifeboat. The situation was resolved eventually by the Navy

180
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 3: seals shooting all the pirates. They were based on one

181
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 3: of the US ships, and they used sniper rifles to

182
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 3: shoot the pirates. Really yep, they shot them all off

183
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 3: the lifeboat while the captain of the ship was also

184
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 3: in the lifeboat. WHOA yeah, no, then I would be

185
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 3: shocked if that's not a film about this, or I

186
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 3: know the captain of the ship has written a book

187
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 3: about his time being captured. But obviously, like this kind

188
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 3: of rattled the world, right, It scared a lot of people,

189
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 3: specifically in the shipping industry, because this is a scary

190
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,679
Speaker 3: thing to happen, and specifically this change in the nature

191
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 3: of piracy from taking stuff to potentially capturing people. And

192
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 3: I believe the goal of the pirates here was to

193
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 3: get the captain ashore where they could hide him more easily,

194
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 3: right in Somalia. And then it becomes entirely different issue

195
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 3: when you're trying to get US troops into a completely

196
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 3: different country to rescue someone a different land mass. Yeah. Yeah,

197
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,520
Speaker 3: And I think it's really important to talk about like

198
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,200
Speaker 3: the jurisdictional issues here because they are what gives the

199
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 3: PMSCs so much leeway. I think we'll take a little

200
00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 3: break talking about jurisdiction and we will come back. All right,

201
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 3: we're back. So to understand private maritime security companies, you've

202
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,959
Speaker 3: got to understand the world of flags of convenience. First.

203
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,600
Speaker 3: Are you familiar with flags the convenience garrison? No?

204
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:22,680
Speaker 5: No?

205
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,120
Speaker 3: Okay, this is this is good. This is James gets

206
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 3: to download shit that he reads at for no reason

207
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 3: at like eleven o'clock at night. There are nations in

208
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 3: the world states that allow vessels to register under their

209
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,679
Speaker 3: flag even if the owner of the vessel is not

210
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 3: a citizen of that country. It's called an open registry.

211
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 3: So if you hang out in the port, spend time

212
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,680
Speaker 3: looking at boats, look at the flags of the boats.

213
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 3: You will often see flags of a few countries. The

214
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 3: most common ones are Liberia, Panama, and the Republic of

215
00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 3: the Marshall Islands. The reason that boat own might choose

216
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 3: let's say you Garrison have a boat right there, you

217
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 3: shipping company Garrison Davis Boats Incorporated, and you don't want

218
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 3: to register them in Canada or the United States. Might

219
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 3: be to avoid tax liability. Might be to avoid like

220
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 3: what you consider to be burdens and safety regulations, okay.

221
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 3: Might be to avoid the frustrating constraints of Canadian labor law.

222
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 3: Or it might be to avoid some ecological constraints on

223
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 3: your boats which your flag nation might impose. And generally

224
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,840
Speaker 3: flags of convenience have very little in the way of

225
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 3: taxation and regulation, right and so people might choose to

226
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,840
Speaker 3: flag their vessel in Liberia, Panama, Publican Marshall Islands, Hong

227
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 3: Kong instead to avoid some of those issues. Right now,

228
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 3: The issue comes when you read say you register your

229
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,559
Speaker 3: boat in Liberia and your boat is off on its

230
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 3: way delivering things, and then some pirates seize your boat.

231
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 4: I'm guessing Liberia is not going to be of much assistance.

232
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not coming, yeah, yeah, the Liberian Navy is

233
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 3: not available to help you in that instance, right now,

234
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 3: because there tend to be very little constraint on flags

235
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 3: of convenience, there's also very little constraint on what can

236
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 3: happen on those boats, right So you could hire a

237
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 3: private maritime security company and they could protect your boat,

238
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 3: and the chances are the flagger convenience country would not

239
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 3: regulate anything that they did on your boat or the

240
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 3: weaponry they held on your boat. Ah, the rmiders the

241
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 3: Marshall Islands does just regulate somewhat the weaponry that the

242
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 3: Marshal Islands flagged boats could have. I think the reason

243
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 3: there are so many boats flagged in the Marshall Islands,

244
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 3: at least in part, is because half the world's tuna

245
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 3: is caught in Marshall Islands waters. So a lot of

246
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 3: those vessels will probably have they'll choose to have the

247
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,959
Speaker 3: Marshal Islands flag because it allows them to fish in

248
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,160
Speaker 3: territorial waters. Would be my guess. I've met some some

249
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,200
Speaker 3: contractors on Marshal Lea's boat, so I'm not a guy

250
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 3: who was a helicopter pilot for a tuna fishing boat

251
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,160
Speaker 3: in a bar once. I guess they fly the helicopter

252
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 3: to look for the fish and then the boat comes

253
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 3: and catches the fish. Huh yeah, fascinating world. I don't

254
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 3: think it's a highly enjoyable job, but I think it's

255
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 3: people do it to get their flight hours up so

256
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 3: they can do other things. So because of this legal

257
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 3: it's not really a legal gray area, just the fact

258
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,120
Speaker 3: that these people are not regulated in any way. Right,

259
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 3: people can carry weapons on ships. Now. In the case

260
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 3: of piracy off Somalia specifically, the United Nations did authorize

261
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 3: military action against Somali pirates and between twenty and forty

262
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 3: boats were there at any given time in the next

263
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 3: four years trying to police piracy. But that's not enough

264
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 3: boats because every boat that is moving through that area

265
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 3: is at risk for piracy. And pirates can use very

266
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 3: small boats to board very big boats, right, And unless

267
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 3: that very big boat is somehow able to defend itself,

268
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 3: all they need is a few weapons and the ability

269
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 3: to get on board, and they're hard to trut.

270
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 5: Right.

271
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,720
Speaker 3: I've heard from people who did contracting in the pre

272
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight era that basically that they put

273
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 3: barbed wire on the edge of the boat to stop

274
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 3: people getting on and then they had the l rad

275
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 3: like they was that long range. The sound weapon, Yeah,

276
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 3: the sound weapon, and I'm not sure that it was

277
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 3: there as a weapon. I think it was there to

278
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,320
Speaker 3: notify other ships like get out the way, but that

279
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 3: it could be weaponized. And then after that it was

280
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 3: like big sticks and harsh words, I guess. So like

281
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 3: when you have the guys who took over the MESK

282
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 3: Galabama coming in with a few kalashnikov they have the

283
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 3: balance of force on their side, right, That is no

284
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 3: longer the case anymore. Initially in two thousand and nine,

285
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 3: groups like Blackwater tried to get in all this, and

286
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 3: they did it actually by more or less, I guess,

287
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,440
Speaker 3: like copying the privateer model that we'd seen in the

288
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,720
Speaker 3: nineteenth century. They refitted commercial boats with weapons and offered

289
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 3: them like for higher as like a rental, like as

290
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 3: an accompaniment.

291
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 4: They would like escort another ship.

292
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'd escort you through this dangerous area and then

293
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 3: turn around and escort someone who was going the other way.

294
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 3: Or that was the idea. Sure it didn't really work

295
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 3: a because it was expensive right to run these vessels,

296
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 3: and b because you'd need so many of them, and

297
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 3: so what they ended up doing instead was actually stationing

298
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 3: people on the vessels. So like these security contractors will

299
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 3: now live on the oil tanker or the container ship,

300
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,480
Speaker 3: either for its all journey or for the duration of

301
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 3: the time which it's considered danger well.

302
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 4: And also, I mean if pirates try to get onto

303
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 4: the big ship and all of the military guys are

304
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 4: on a different ship a little bit behind, you have

305
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 4: to get those guys onto the other ship, right, and then.

306
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 3: Then now you're shooting at the ship that you're supposed

307
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 3: to be protecting. And I can see that.

308
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,160
Speaker 4: That does just make it a little bit more complicated.

309
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Unfortunately, the way, according to reports I've read,

310
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 3: I should say, the way they have got around this

311
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 3: issue is by preemptively shooting at vessels that they consider

312
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 3: to be a threat. Sure, and there are plenty of

313
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,240
Speaker 3: allegations of that will get onto the lack of really

314
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 3: any means of legal accountability at some point. What they

315
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 3: do instead is they allow contractors to go on the ships,

316
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 3: and these contractors then have to be armed. Right. The

317
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 3: way they tend to be armed is depending on the

318
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 3: flag of the ship and what regulations it has. Right generally,

319
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 3: if they're entering into an area where they can't be armed,

320
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 3: they have what are called floating armories. Those are what

321
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,199
Speaker 3: they sound like. You don't understand how long in my

322
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 3: freelance career I spent trying to get onto one of

323
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 3: these particular boats. It was a long time.

324
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 4: So is this just like a tiny boat on a

325
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 4: string with whole winter of guns on it? Like what

326
00:17:58,880 --> 00:17:59,400
Speaker 4: it could be?

327
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 3: It could be an oil platform, could be a little boat,

328
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 3: it could be a big boat sometimes the contractors themselves

329
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 3: or like that's where the contractors will meet the big boat,

330
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 3: right and they'll get on it there, so they have

331
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,399
Speaker 3: like an area they can hang out, like it has

332
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 3: living facilities. Huh. I've spoken to a few people in

333
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,439
Speaker 3: this world, but you know, if you happen to be

334
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 3: listening and you're a boat security guy, I know. This

335
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 3: is continues to fascinate me as an area where like

336
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,679
Speaker 3: the state doesn't exist and we have this like post

337
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,200
Speaker 3: state private militarization.

338
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 4: It's like anarcho capitalism.

339
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yes, yeah, yeah exactly is it is a

340
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 3: vision of the ancap future that I don't love. That

341
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 3: is very interesting, Right, there were states that offered to

342
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 3: have like vessel detachments. The Dutch did this. I believe

343
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 3: they would be like we will send you. I'm not

344
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,479
Speaker 3: familiar with the Dutch military. Sorry, Dutch listeners, Dutch marines, I imagine, right,

345
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 3: and you can have a few of them on your boat.

346
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 3: But even Dutch companies or Dutch flag vessels weren't using

347
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 3: it because it was so much paperwork and the government

348
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 3: couldn't keep up with their demands. They right, now, we'll

349
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,120
Speaker 3: just get some guys, what's pay them? Be fine? Yeah.

350
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 3: The state has more or less completely removed itself from

351
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 3: the sphere and removed itself from doing anything approaching accountability,

352
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 3: and so it is extremely hard for these people to

353
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: be held accountable for things that they do in international waters. Right.

354
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 3: There are like industry standards in the industry itself sets

355
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 3: in the same way that there are standards for cops

356
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 3: at the cops themselves set, and those have generally not

357
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 3: been the best means of accountability. Right in the theory,

358
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 3: anytime they engage someone, certainly, if they kill someone, the

359
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 3: ship's authorities should report that. Yeah hopefully, yeah cool, I'm

360
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: sure they will. I'm sure they love to do the paperwork.

361
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,879
Speaker 3: But then who would they report it to, right, do

362
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: they report it to the country? They suspect the peace

363
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 3: people they are shooting at their country. Do they report

364
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 3: it to the flag of convenience country? Do they report

365
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 3: it to the company they work for? Like I'm sure

366
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,680
Speaker 3: there is some jurisdiction of maritime law which would give

367
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 3: us an answer to that, But in practice there appears

368
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 3: to be very little mechanism for accountability in the same

369
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 3: way that there is very little mechanism for accountability for

370
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 3: labor law violations at sea. I would recommend if people

371
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 3: haven't listened as a podcast called Outlaw Ocean. It's probably

372
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,640
Speaker 3: five or six years old at this point. I think

373
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 3: it was in New York Times Investigation along with someone else.

374
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 3: It was a good podcast about labor violations at sea,

375
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 3: and they specifically looked at some of these fishing vessels

376
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 3: and the fact that they use people who are essentially

377
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: an indentured servitude. But they also touched on private maritime security.

378
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 3: These days, we see a lot less piracy off Somalia

379
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 3: right like it has reached its peak. This little little

380
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 3: chunk in an article I was ringing on jastore this

381
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: morning that I thought was interesting quote maritime security companies

382
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: have been consulted on greenpeace activists attempt to climb onto

383
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 3: a gas prom off your platform in September twenty thirteen

384
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 3: to protest ruling in the Arctic and attacks against oil

385
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 3: and gas installations by the Movement for the Emancipation is

386
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 3: a niche a delta. So I guess these people have

387
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 3: a wide remit in which they operate. As I say,

388
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 3: they's somewhat different from like land based PMCs because land

389
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: brace private military contractors are generally operating either with backup

390
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 3: from a state or as back up to a state,

391
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 3: and so there is like an accountability mechanism somewhat there.

392
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 3: We saw in the Global War on Terror that that

393
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 3: we still lack accountability mechanisms for private military contractors on land,

394
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 3: but that certainly remains the case on the ocean. Right. Yeah,

395
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 3: So another thing we should consider here is a historical parallels, right,

396
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: And the obvious historical parallel would be looked to nineteen

397
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: eighty seven and the what's generally referred to as the

398
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 3: tanker War. Right, what the United States attempted to do

399
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 3: was to open up a channel. The straightform moves is

400
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 3: very narrow. As I said, it's narrowest point, it's just

401
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: twenty one miles. There are two channels because obviously not

402
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 3: the entire twenty one miles is deep enough ships to

403
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 3: go through. There are two channels that are each about

404
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: two miles wide, and think they're three kilometers wide. It's

405
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: still not very great at that conversion. So the United

406
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 3: States attempted is to open one channel and then run

407
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,959
Speaker 3: a convoy system. Right. Think about when you have roadworks

408
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 3: and you know the cars go one way and then

409
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 3: the cars go the other way, and someone goes in

410
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: front of you and they have it like a flashing

411
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: light till you'd follow them or what have you. And

412
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 3: the United States attempted to escort convoys of mostly reflagged

413
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 3: Kuwaiti oil tankers through the straight Horn moves right. The

414
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: very first escort mission involved a Kuwaiti oil tanker that

415
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: had reflagged as an American tanker had become the Bridgeton.

416
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: It was the Bridgiton that struck an underwater mine on

417
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: that very first mission. I didn't cause any casualties, it

418
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: did cause damage to the ship. During that same operation

419
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 3: in a United States ship also struck a mine. It

420
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: was called the United States Samuel Roberts Samuel B. Roberts.

421
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,959
Speaker 3: I believe it struck a mine while transiting international waters.

422
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: It just goes to show that when there are minds

423
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: in this area, in any area, it's very hard to

424
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 3: know when they've all been removed, and it's very hard

425
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: to know where they all are right now. During that

426
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: same operation, a United States warship mistakenly shot down an

427
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: Aralian civilian flight, killing all two hundred and ninety people

428
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 3: on board. This goes to show how crowded the space

429
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: is around the straight offore moves, and it goes to

430
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: show how I mean, even in a relatively modern war,

431
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: the possibility for mistakes is very high. And that's before

432
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: you even considered the fact that the Trump administration is

433
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 3: willing to accept, even among administrations as the United States,

434
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: they are willing to accept a very high number of

435
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 3: innocent deaths. I also want to talk about, because this

436
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: is such a small straight to crowded straight right, the

437
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 3: possibility of attack is not just limited to naval attack

438
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: right to boats. We know that US destroyed most of

439
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: Iran's navy, and we're going to speak about how the

440
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: IRGC navy is not the same as Iran's regular flag navy.

441
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,239
Speaker 3: Right when we talk about the Iranian navy, big gray boats. Yes,

442
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 3: the US has destroyed many of those with the IGC.

443
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 3: We're looking at much smaller, fast attack vessels, right, sometimes

444
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: civilian vessels with a machine gun mounted to them. Those

445
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 3: have not all been destroyed, and it will be very

446
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 3: hard for United States to destroy those all from the air,

447
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 3: as it will be for the United States to destroy

448
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: the ground attack capability that Iran has. Right. They have

449
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: jrnmus missiles, they have Shahed drones. They can use regular

450
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: unguided rockets. A Shahed drone from anywhere in the country

451
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: of Iran, given its range, could hit a boat in

452
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 3: the Strait of Hormos. These horn Moose class missiles. They're

453
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 3: called Hormos missiles, so they're launched from vehicles. Right. It

454
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: looks like a lorry and it comes out and it

455
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: pops up its back. It lifts up the miss island

456
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: launches it. These are very easy to hide, right. Lots

457
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: of entities in this region use tunnels and caves to

458
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 3: hide things. I'm sure the Iranian state does too, But

459
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: you could hide one of these missile launches anywhere in

460
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: a city in a cave and a tunnel. It only

461
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: needs to pop out, deliver its missile and then it

462
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: can be abandoned, right, or it can go back into

463
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: its cave whatever it wants. But the Iranians don't need

464
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: to destroy every ship that transits the Strait of Hormoos

465
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: to close the Straight of Hormoos. First of all, there

466
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 3: are only two three kilometer channels.

467
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 5: Right.

468
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: If there is a wrecked ship in one of those channels,

469
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: channel get smaller and smaller, and therefore your chance of

470
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: hitting the minds that are there gets higher and higher. Right,

471
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: because there's less way to go around them. The Iranians

472
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: only have to make transiting the Strait of Hormus uninsurable

473
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: to succeed, right. So what has happened with private maritime

474
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 3: security contractors so far is that their presence has made

475
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 3: transiting high risk areas areas at high risk for piracy

476
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: an insurable effort. Because frequently you will hear that a

477
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: ship with armed security has never been taken by pirates.

478
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: That's really hard for us to confirm, right, like, there's

479
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: no independent data on that, but certainly it it likely

480
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 3: reduces a chance so then being taken by pirates, and

481
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: that has made them insurable. The Iranians knocking out one

482
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: or two tankers will make the Straight of hormones an

483
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: uninsurable passage, or it will make the insurance so costly

484
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 3: that commercial entities will not be willing to undertake that journey.

485
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: Right now, Donald Trump is said the United States will

486
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: act as the insurer. I know, man like it will

487
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: be a lot of tankers for us to buy the

488
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: if the Iranians keep you know, they've knocked out two

489
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 3: large vessels overnight, it seems unlikely. Donal Trump has said

490
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: a lot of things right, not all of them are true.

491
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: Very well, even in the last few weeks, Donal Trump

492
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: said a lot of things about the straight of Horror

493
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 3: moves that were not true. So we will see that

494
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 3: I wanted to explain some of those threats. Let's have

495
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: a talk about the specific naval threat now that IGC

496
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: Navy all right, So let's move on to discussing what

497
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 3: exactly this means in the current era. Right when the

498
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: United States is saying the straight of Horror moves is

499
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: open except for Iran shooting at ships, and Iran is

500
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: radioing ships right now and telling them they're not allowed

501
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: to enter the straight of horm moves, and they're obviously

502
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: threatening them if they do. So, what we will see

503
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: right now in the straight of hornor moves is this

504
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 3: situation where Iran has a few mechanisms for attacking these

505
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 3: these ships. Right, the one that's being talked about the

506
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: most are minds, and the mindset it ran has to

507
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 3: my understanding of just straight up World War two leg

508
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: s minds. Have you ever played mind sweeper Garrison?

509
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 6: Yeah?

510
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So they look like that, right. They

511
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: have these big contact fuses on them, that is what

512
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: they are, right the way the current works in a

513
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: straight of hornor moves, if they can kind of circulate around, okay,

514
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: which will make them you know, you can't be like,

515
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 3: okay that this area is mine, that we're just going

516
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: to avoid the minds. Yeah, right, like this whole strait

517
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: is mine now. And as we covered in ed on Friday,

518
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 3: the US doesn't have a great capacity to remove those minds.

519
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: But the thing which has been less discussed is that

520
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: the IGC has tons, and if they don't have, if

521
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: they run out, it's very easy to make more right

522
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: of like civilian fast boats. Think of a little boat

523
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: with a motor on the back and a belt fed

524
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: machine gun in the front, right, Like, very easy to

525
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: take those boats and swarm a large vessel, right, Like,

526
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: even if that vessel has private security on board, the

527
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: straightforard moves is twenty one miles across. Like, you could

528
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: harass people if you had a jet ski.

529
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, have a little jet ski technical I just tell you, yeah, yeah,

530
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 4: with an RPG on the back.

531
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah. And then most dudes rock vessel that

532
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: has ever taken to the seas. Yeah. I might have

533
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: to hand it to that LGC if they did that.

534
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 7: But.

535
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: Under very few circumsts. I don't know circumstances. Yeah, do

536
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: you have to hand it to the Yeah, the Iranian

537
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: state in any capacity. Now I'm shitting around, like I

538
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: think the state of irun is terrible, misogynist, violent and

539
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: oppressive entity and shouldn't exist just to be like super dupicle.

540
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: They also have what are called uncrewed surface vessels. I'm

541
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: sure they use like the gender neutral framing, but they

542
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: are think of a large think of a boat that

543
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: doesn't have anyone driving it, right, And it was uncrewed

544
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: surface vessels that they used last night at the time

545
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: of recording to explode a tanker in the port in Barcera, Right, Okay,

546
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: very hard for the United States to stop these uncrewed

547
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 3: surface vessels. Right, they are like the Shihi drone of

548
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: the ocean. This boat's not coming home. It's designed to

549
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: eliminate another boat. But it can be It could be steered, right,

550
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: It's not just like a torpedo. So what exactly are

551
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: the options I guess for the United States? Trump has

552
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: offered to secure shipping through the straight ofform moose, right,

553
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 3: he offered to accompany ships. The Navy doesn't have the

554
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: capacity to do that. To accompany the amount of the

555
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: world shipping that goes through the straight ofform moves would

556
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: require masses of ships to accompany them, right, They'd have

557
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 3: to travel at the same speed as these ships. Some

558
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: of these ships are flagged to countries all over the world, right,

559
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: including countries the US doesn't have the best relationship with,

560
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: especially right now. The companies could hire more private maritime security,

561
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: and I'm sure they will, but also like, part of

562
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: the role of private maritime security companies is to be like,

563
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 3: don't do that, it's too dangerous. And going through a

564
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: straightform moods right now is probably too dangerous, right, sure,

565
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: So I don't know how you would quickly equip a

566
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: ship in a way that you could be like cast

567
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: iron secure that it will be able to fend off

568
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: like a little swarm of little boats trying to attack it. Right,

569
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 3: I don't think an RPG could sink one of these ships,

570
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: but it could really fucking give it a bad day.

571
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: Oh you know, Like there's not a good situation when

572
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: there's a hole in your boat from what I understand. So,

573
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: like the other option would be for the US to

574
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: put personnel on these ships, which would be problematic from

575
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: a number of approaches. Right, it is a Liberian flagship,

576
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: and now you're asking what US marines to risk their

577
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: lives to defend the Liberian flagship so everyone can get

578
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: their TIMU purchases. And like we can not slow down

579
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 3: global trade. There is not a good option here. Like

580
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: the state the States of the world couldn't find a

581
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: good option when we were dealing with piracy in two

582
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: thousand and nine, ten, eleven, twelve. Right, they felt better

583
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: outsourcing the accountability for that to private companies. The States

584
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: didn't want to have to wear the reputation damage for

585
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: like this boat once again opened up with a belt

586
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: fed on what turned out to be a fishing vessel,

587
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: or they felt like that liability was too much for them, right,

588
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: so they didn't want to do it and they would

589
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: much rather have private companies do it. I don't really

590
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: see an option here that makes the shipping safe going

591
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: through this area.

592
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: You could not start a war with Iran.

593
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that is a really good option, actually one

594
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: that one that sadly that ship has sailed as they say, Garrizon,

595
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, it is. This industry is already problematic, Like

596
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: even before the United States started bombing Venezuela and the

597
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: Colombian fishing vessels or vessels that it accused of being

598
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: drug traffickers, there has been a long history of a

599
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 3: lack of accountability for people being killed at sea and

600
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: for people being abused at sea through labor violations. I

601
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: don't really see a way we come out of this

602
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: without more damage to innocent lives, right, Like, either the

603
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: United States just decides that it's going to go like

604
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: scorched Earth on any boat its seas in the straight

605
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: of Horn moves isn't like a big tanker. And then

606
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: these these vessels, they're not all US flagged, right, the

607
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: US doesn't have a means to be like, Okay, you

608
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: can go now you can't go now the straightforward moves

609
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: is not in the United States. It doesn't control that water,

610
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: and so I don't really see a solution for this now.

611
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: Like one thing that the world of private maritime security

612
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: shows us is that neoliberal globalism is willing to look

613
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 3: the other way a great deal and allow a great

614
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: deal of violence on behalf of corporations, not on behalf

615
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 3: of the state. Right Like when people are getting engaged

616
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: by these vessels, it is to protect property. Granted, sometimes

617
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: it is also to protect life, right like these pirates

618
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: have killed people and kidnap people in search. But the

619
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: state has been willing to see its monopoly on violence

620
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: at the high seas because it could find a good

621
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 3: solution to this, and it's been willing to overlook a

622
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: lot of loss of life. And I just don't see

623
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: a way that this doesn't lead to more loss of life.

624
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: That is probably what we have to look forward to.

625
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 3: It may have already begun happening in the straight of

626
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: horn Moves between when we record this and when you

627
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 3: hear it, but it is deeply concerning and pretty shit,

628
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: given that there are so many people just trying to

629
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: make their way and live their lives in that area. Yeah,

630
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: it's a happy one. Shout out to Greenpeace also for

631
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: also patronizing these companies.

632
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you told me this was going to be a

633
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: recording about pirates.

634
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: There were pirates in it. That was a yeah. But

635
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: I know, if you're a pirate and you're listening, I

636
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 3: would love to hear it from more pirates.

637
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 4: Between the pirates, the private maritime contractors, and the governments,

638
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 4: it's like everyone here has their own issues. Yeah, and

639
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 4: all these issues are getting massively intensified by the conflict

640
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 4: in Aran obviously.

641
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we even talk about the ecological crisis that

642
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: we will see in the Gulf, right, Like you start

643
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: putting holes in oil tankers, that is going to be

644
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 3: absolute horrific for the environment. Again in an area where

645
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 3: people are ready to struggling to make it by, I mean.

646
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 4: Why don't they just pull a pull of Fitzgernaldo. Why

647
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 4: don't they just pull those ships up? Oh God, avoid

648
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 4: them straight altogether.

649
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 3: Maybe people haven't seen this, and this surface is like

650
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: every three days right now on Twitter, like why don't

651
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: they just go across land? It turns out that mountains,

652
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: big mountains, hard water doesn't like going uphill, quite a

653
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 3: challenging terrain to transit. I think maybe people don't realize

654
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 3: that eighty percent think believe it's eighty percent of global

655
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: trade still travels by boat. Yeah, like it is still

656
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: the way that most things get to most places. And

657
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: I think we are about to find out that the

658
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: boat ignorers are about to find out. If this continues

659
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: for weeks or months, then it will be incredibly detrimental.

660
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 4: Is this a good or a bad time to enter

661
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 4: the private mirror time contracting business?

662
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 3: How much are you enjoying your life decently? Well, okay, yeah,

663
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 3: probably stay out of it if I with you.

664
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 4: Because they got to be getting a lot of money.

665
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 4: But also they're in the one of the most highest

666
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 4: positions they've probably ever been in.

667
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 3: So yeah, this was already an area of military contracting

668
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 3: that people looked to get into and get out of.

669
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: I would say, like the bulk of these folks now

670
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: will be the ones I've met have been Colombians. The

671
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: Colombians provide a lot of military contractors around the world. Now,

672
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 3: the people who are able to get out of it

673
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: will do business in other areas, right, Like they'll do

674
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 3: the private close protection and stuff like that there are

675
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: protective details for journalists I know in who are operating

676
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: in Iraq right now. Sure, yeah, these people will be

677
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: making a lot of money, I think, especially like probably

678
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 3: consulting right now with global shipping. I was reading about

679
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 3: the East India Company this morning. I was learning, for instance,

680
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 3: that the value of a t ship leave in China

681
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 3: was a billion dollars in twenty twenty four money, which

682
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: is how like these private maritime security companies in another

683
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: age were able to develop right because it was worth

684
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 3: boat jacking, that boat pirrating, whatever that's called, because of

685
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 3: the value of tea at that time. So it's not

686
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: a new problem. But there was a relatively short period

687
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: of time in global trade history in which the state

688
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: attempted to advance any form of hegemony over the high seas,

689
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: and it is completely retreated from that in the twenty

690
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: first century. But it will be very difficult for any

691
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: state to try and regain that now, Like I don't

692
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: see even the United States doesn't really have the capacity

693
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: to do that. Garrison looks ponderous.

694
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I guess I'll cancel my TIMU orders.

695
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: They'll come someone someone right now is strapping a belt

696
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 3: fed machine gun to a boat to make sure that

697
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: you get your team orders. It is like, really kind

698
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: of fucked that we're asking people to run a mine field, right,

699
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: Like an understand global trade. It's not just temu orders,

700
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: but certainly a lot of stuff is consumed when the

701
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: global author doesn't need to be consumed. And it is

702
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: wild that right now, the solution of the global shipping

703
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: industry seems to be some of these people will die,

704
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: but we will keep the oil moving and the treats moving.

705
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: But that has been, as I hope I've illustrated here right, like,

706
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 3: some people will die, but we will keep the treats moving,

707
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 3: has been pretty much the status of the shipping industry

708
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: for most of the twenty first century.

709
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 8: Yeah.

710
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the status of the entire world at this point. Yeah, yeah,

711
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: that is the capitalist logic, right. It's just it's like

712
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: particularly I think particularly naked here. Yeah. I highly recommend

713
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 3: the Outlaw Ocean podcast if you're interested in learning more

714
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 3: about this. I will link to some of the jastore

715
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: deep dive that I went on this morning if you

716
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: are able to get past the jay Store paywall and

717
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: would like to read that. I think that's about all

718
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: we got anything else you want to say about boats.

719
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 3: Garrison now is the age of pirates. Yeah, our flag

720
00:39:53,480 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 3: means a complete lack of accountability.

721
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 4: Hello everyone, a welcome to it could happen here. My

722
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 4: name is Dad Al Kern.

723
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 9: I'm an associate professor of political science, a senior non

724
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 9: resident fell at the Arab Center Washington, and I specialize

725
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 9: in Palestinian and Arab politics. Although Gaza has sort of

726
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 9: leaked off the headlines with everything going on domestically, there's

727
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 9: still obviously a lot happening on the issue of Palestine.

728
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 9: I feel like I've started the last few episodes like this,

729
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 9: but it's worth repeating. So here's an update on what's

730
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 9: been happening in Gaza specifically, despite the ceasefire agreement, reports

731
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 9: indicate ongoing demolition of homes in Gaza City and restricted

732
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 9: entry of food, medical, and humanitarian aid. Again, since the

733
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 9: ceasefire started, more than six hundred Palestinians have been killed

734
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 9: by Israeli fire, with one hundreds more injured. For some reason,

735
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 9: these don't count as ceasefire violations, and according to the

736
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 9: Gaza Government Media Office, there's been over sixteen hundred violations

737
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 9: by Israeli forces, including air attacks, shelling, and direct shooting.

738
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 9: Of the past one hundred and thirty some days of

739
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 9: the ceasefire, Analsis shows attacks on one hundred and eleven

740
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 9: of them, at least in a previous episode, I also

741
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 9: talked about what the yellow line was, which was this

742
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 9: kind of unilaterally imposed military boundary inside Gaza to make

743
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 9: sure that Palestinians are sequestered into smaller spaces, and Israeli

744
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 9: forces have continued to target individuals and structures across this

745
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 9: yellow line, claiming that these actions are necessary to stop

746
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 9: militants and now JA zero reports, however, that Israeli backed

747
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 9: gangs armed gangs are operating back and forth across the

748
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 9: yellow line, so they're allowed now. Rapach Crossing, which is

749
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 9: at the southern tip of Gaza, has officially opened but

750
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 9: is operating under intense Israeli security with some monitoring by

751
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 9: the Palestinian authority and EU officials, but reports indicate that

752
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 9: only about fifty to one hundred and fifty people are

753
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 9: allowed to cross daily, which is far below the demand

754
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 9: for the estimated twenty thousand plus sick or wounded Palstinians

755
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 9: needing evacuation. And since it's opened, its face closures. There's

756
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 9: been a lot of confusion about policy, with many reporting

757
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 9: harsh treatment, invasive searches, and restrictions on personal belongings for

758
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 9: those passing through, and that crossing is not functioning for

759
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 9: commercial or humanitarian aid, which must go through other Israeli

760
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 9: controlled crossings. At the Munich Security Conference that was held

761
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 9: February thirteenth, the top US appointed diplomat overseeing the ceasefire,

762
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 9: Bulgarian diplomat Nicolaim Ladanov said, quote continued violations of the

763
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 9: agreement pose major obstacles to the Pastinian committee expected to

764
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 9: oversee post war governance and reconstruction end quote, and he

765
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 9: was specifically talking about Hamas basically violating the agreement by

766
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 9: not laying down its weapons not disarming, and the Paladian

767
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 9: Foreign Minister Varsen Shaheen, speaking at the same panel, focused

768
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 9: on this idea that Gaza must not be severed from

769
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 9: the West Bank and that the Palsidian authority, meaning the

770
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 9: government in the West Bank that she represents, will need

771
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 9: to take control of governance at some point in Gaza

772
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 9: so that Pastinians could maybe have a state in the future.

773
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 9: Something of course, the Israeli government has rejected outright, which

774
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 9: brings us to this issue of disarming Hamas. Now, this

775
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 9: has been a condition of the US and its representatives

776
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 9: on the Board of Peace. Here's Trump on this a

777
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 9: few days after the ceasefire was announced.

778
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: Will it take Hamas to disarm and can you guarantee

779
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: that is.

780
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: Going to happen?

781
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to disarm and because they said they

782
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 7: were going to disarm, and if they don't disarm, we

783
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 7: will disarm them.

784
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: How you do that, I don't have to explain that

785
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: to you.

786
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 7: But if they don't disarm, we will disarm them. They

787
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 7: know I'm not playing games, okay.

788
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 9: On February fifteenth, he announced on social media his Truth

789
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 9: Social that he had gotten five billion dollars pledged by

790
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 9: members of his quote unquote Board of Peace. As one

791
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 9: article noted, reconstruction of Gaza is expected to cost seven

792
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 9: hundred billion dollars according to the United Nations, World Bank,

793
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 9: and European Union est, especially after more than two years

794
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 9: of war. Trump has also claimed that countries had committed

795
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 9: a bunch of troops to the International Security Force that's

796
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 9: supposed to go into Gaza, secure Gaza and disarm Hamas.

797
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 9: He didn't name which of these countries had committed troops,

798
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 9: but Indonesia did confirm that it will send eight thousand troops.

799
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 9: And in that same truth social post, Trump again reiterated

800
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 9: that quote very importantly, HAMAS must uphold its commitment to

801
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 9: full and immediate demilitarization end quote so. Back in December,

802
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 9: in an interview with Israel's Channel twelve, as reported by

803
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 9: drop site News, US Ambassador to the UN Mike Waltz,

804
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 9: said that the International Security Force was intended to disarm

805
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 9: Hamas one way or the other. Specifically, he said, quote

806
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 9: by all means necessary, and that quote obviously it'll be

807
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 9: a conversation with each country. Those rules of engagement are ongoing.

808
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 9: I'll tell you this. President Trump has repeatedly said HAMAS

809
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 9: will disarm one way or another, the easy way or

810
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 9: the hard way. Now. Hamas, for its part, claims it

811
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 9: never agreed to disarm. In an interview with drop site

812
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 9: News in December twenty twenty five, senior HAMAS leader had

813
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 9: Ad Micheald said that while HAMAS is open to quote

814
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 9: freezing or storing its defensive weapons, it wouldn't disarm unless

815
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 9: it was in the quote context of establishing a Palestinian

816
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 9: army or security force capable of defending itself from Israeli aggression.

817
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 9: Hamas has claimed that it only has a mandate to

818
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 9: negotiate a ceasefire at exchange of captives, and that every

819
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 9: other issue needs to be handled through some sort of

820
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 9: consensus process involving the other Palestinian political factions. And in

821
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 9: that same interview, Michild rejected the idea of an international

822
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 9: security force disarming them, saying that quote we accept them

823
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 9: on the borders as separation forces between the Palestinian side

824
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 9: and the Israeli side, not as forces deployed inside Gaza

825
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 9: as was intended for them, and as Nittanyaja wants for

826
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 9: them to clash with Palestinians and disarm them end quote.

827
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 5: So.

828
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 9: Speaking at an Al Jazera forum on February eighth, the

829
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 9: same person, hadath Micheald reiterated this argument, saying that the

830
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 9: calls for Hamas's disarmament is not an international demand but

831
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 9: and Israeli dictate being pushed onto Washington.

832
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 4: He also said that calls to.

833
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 9: Disarm Palstinians while the occupation continues would quote leave Gaza

834
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 9: defenseless against Israel's overwhelming military power and exterminationist agenda. As

835
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 9: job site News reported on their social media quote, mitchad

836
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 9: acknowledged the need for pragmatic post war framework to enable

837
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 9: reconstruction and prevent a return to fighting, but explained that

838
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 9: it could not be built on total disarmament. So with

839
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 9: that as an introduction, I wanted to take this episode

840
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 9: to talk about what Palestinians think of disarmament and broadly

841
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 9: and more generally arm tactics. And when I say Palestinians,

842
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 9: I hope it's clear I don't just mean Hemas. I

843
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 9: know that comes as a shock to some, but Pastinians

844
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 9: aren't monolithic. And there has been a great deal of

845
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 9: debate since the Octu over seventh attacks by hems on

846
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 9: the role of arm tactics armed groups, especially in the

847
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 9: absence of national institutions or functioning national liberation movements. In

848
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 9: December of last year, twenty twenty five, the New Arab

849
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 9: hosted a very interesting debate between different Pastinian representatives of

850
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 9: Hamas Fateh, the party of the Pasidian Authority, and a

851
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 9: human rights activist and writer. And they hosted this in Gaza,

852
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 9: literally on the grounds of the bombed out of Shippe hospital,

853
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 9: and they've debated some key questions, for example, who has

854
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 9: the right to decide or in peace for Palestinians, How

855
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 9: can Pastinians understand October seventh, does Hamas need to disarm?

856
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 9: Who should govern Gaza? And you know what, this may

857
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 9: come as a shock to both the American left and

858
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 9: the American right, but the Pasadian speakers at this interview

859
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 9: did not all agree with each other. So I'm going

860
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 9: to give a brief rountdown of what this panel discussed.

861
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 9: The main Hamas spokesperson hasn't caused him basically argued that

862
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 9: decisions on war and peace should be made through national

863
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 9: consensus within a unified Pastinian institution, not unilatterally by any faction,

864
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 9: but that in the absence of functioning institutions, then Hamas

865
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 9: is a part of the Palastinian body politic has a

866
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 9: right to engage in violence and defend Palestinians. He also

867
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 9: argued that it wasn't Hamas's fault that there wasn't national

868
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 9: consensus or functioning national institutions. His narrative was that Hamas

869
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 9: consistently sought unity first by entering into elections in two

870
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 9: thousand and six and supporting election attempts that President Mahmad

871
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 9: Abbas of the Party and the Paladian Authority ended up canceling.

872
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 9: He also reiterated that Hamas doesn't mind handing over governance

873
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 9: in Gaza to a technocratic body, which proves from his perspective,

874
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 9: that they aren't trying to govern alone. And on the

875
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 9: question of disarmament, he said Hamas would commit to cease fire,

876
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 9: they would commit to maybe storing their weapons, but they

877
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 9: wouldn't disarm entirely, and they maintained that armed tactics are

878
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 9: illegitimate right. He also emphasized that Israel alone was responsible

879
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 9: for the destruction of Gaza and that no one could

880
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 9: have anticipated the level of brutality Israel would unleash now.

881
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 9: The Faateehespauk's person Munder Hayek understandably disagreed with many of

882
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 9: these points. He represents the opposing party, and from his perspective,

883
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 9: the October seventh attacks were launched without national consensus and

884
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 9: that Concessus could only operate through the Past Time Liberation

885
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 9: Organization the PLO, which is the internationally recognized representative of

886
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 9: the Palestinian people. Hayak also made the reasonable argument that

887
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 9: even if everyone agrees armed resistance is a right that

888
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 9: those engaging in that tactic should consider the regional and

889
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 9: international context, as well as the impact of these kinds

890
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 9: of tactics and the likelihood of their success, and in

891
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 9: his view, because these things were not considered October seventh

892
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 9: led to very negative results for Palestinians and a lack

893
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 9: of meaningful international support. He also admonished Hamas leadership for

894
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 9: making what he thinks this is a political decision of

895
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 9: not negotiating a ceasefire earlier, accusing them of having been

896
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 9: able to stop the war in the first six months

897
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 9: and limit the bloodshed. And finally, he criticized Hamas for

898
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 9: prolonging negotiations and refusing to put the PA in charge

899
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 9: of Gaza. And he landed on the argument that there

900
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 9: could be no future for Hamas from his perspective, as

901
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 9: part of a national liberation movement unless it accepted the PLO,

902
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 9: it disarmed, it renounced violence, and understood that the PA,

903
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 9: the Palsenian Authority, was the only legitimate authority that could

904
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 9: control both territories, the West Bank and Gaza. And the

905
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 9: way to quote unify Palstinen geography is through the Palsenian

906
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 9: authority and doing that would be the only way to

907
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 9: get back to the state building project. I'm just summarizing

908
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 9: here to be clear, his words, not mine.

909
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 4: Now.

910
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 9: The final panelist, Mustaf Ebrahim is a writer and human

911
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 9: rights activist in Gaza who took a critical position of

912
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 9: both parties. He basically said that both Hamas and Fate

913
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 9: share the blame for the division in the Palestinian body

914
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 9: politic and the fact that there was a lack of

915
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 9: mechanism for collective Pastenian decision making and no functioning national institutions.

916
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 9: He blamed both sides, and he accused both sides of

917
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 9: not actually being serious about any of the dialogue sessions

918
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 9: that were held between the two parties in the past

919
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 9: in Cairo, Beirut, and Beijing. But he agreed with the

920
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 9: fatehpokesperson that October seventh has not been allowed to be

921
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 9: assessed properly and that Palestinians never got to decide if

922
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 9: the consequences justified whatever October semath was trying to do,

923
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 9: and he blamed Hamas for that, so, agreeing with the

924
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 9: other panelists that the rights to resist as legitimate. He

925
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 9: also acknowledged that disarmament was an internationally demanded condition, so

926
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 9: he posed the question how would Palestinians navigate this, and

927
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 9: from his perspective, Hamas should be more flexible on the

928
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 9: weapons and disarmament issue, especially given the degree of people's

929
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 9: suffering and the need for reconstruction in Gaza. I summarize

930
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 9: all of this for you, because this debate held in

931
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 9: Gaza among people who had directly lived through the last

932
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 9: two years of genocide, should demonstrate that there is no

933
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 9: national consensus, and that it's not because Postinians don't know

934
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 9: how to resolve these issues, it's because they haven't been

935
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 9: given the space to do so. There has been a

936
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 9: lot of discussion about how to unify these different parties,

937
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 9: about reviving the Pastaine Liberation Organization, making it more inclusive

938
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 9: and democratic and therefore more legitimate as an actor, so

939
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 9: that it could make decisions the Pastinian people would accept,

940
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 9: and so that not one faction can do what at

941
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 9: once can engage in tactics without considering the consequences. But

942
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 9: none of these attempts, and there have been plenty, like

943
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 9: the Palstinian National Conference, have really been incorporated into discussions

944
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 9: of post conflict processes or management by the international community.

945
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 9: Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised when the idea we're going

946
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 9: with is the quote Board of Peace basically functioning as

947
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 9: a colonial oversight board and a club for authoritarian regimes.

948
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 4: But I digress.

949
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 3: I think it's also important.

950
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 4: To make two points here.

951
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 9: First, that polling of the Palestinian people by the Palstinian

952
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 9: Center for Policy and Survey Research shows that most Palestinians

953
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 9: are not supportive of either party, neither Fetah or Hamas.

954
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 9: There is a degree of malaise and cynicism where both

955
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 9: parties are seen as a part of an unacceptable status quo.

956
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 9: For example, when asked about whether they would support a

957
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 9: Hamas candidate or a Fete candidate if elections were held

958
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 9: for the presidency, thirty four percent of Palestinians say they

959
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 9: would vote for a Fute candidate, twenty four percent would

960
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 9: say a Hamas candidate, nine percent would say they would

961
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 9: keep president Mahammad Abbass, and a whopping thirty two percent

962
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 9: would say they wouldn't even vote, And this non voting

963
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 9: percentage goes up to forty seven percent if the elections

964
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 9: are just between Mahmud Abass and a Hamas candidate. And

965
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 9: they also ask about direct support of political parties, so

966
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 9: there's a more direct question. In the latest poll from

967
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 9: October twenty twenty five, again it shows twenty four percent

968
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 9: support FATEH, hardly a majority, thirty five percent support MS,

969
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 9: again hardly a majority, nine percent support third parties, and

970
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 9: thirty two percent either say they don't know or refuse

971
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 9: to answer. So this is not a situation where either

972
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 9: of these parties have im mandate, and it's clear that

973
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 9: neither party is representing the Pasenian people right now, nor

974
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 9: do their actions have majority support. Now, some might wonder

975
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 9: is this debate emerging because of the sheer level of

976
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 9: destruction in Gaza. We are talking over seventy thousand people

977
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 9: killed in Gaza that we can even confirm so far.

978
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 9: Is it that, in this context, this context of severe

979
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 9: consequences from Israel, what prompted this debate and self reflection?

980
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 4: Well, the short answer is no.

981
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 9: Pastenians have always debated these issues, and in the absence

982
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 9: of a functioning national liberation movement with all of its institutions,

983
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 9: they haven't been able to hold any particular party accountable

984
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 9: for its actions. I could point to a lot in

985
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 9: Paustenian history to demonstrate this, but I'll point out an

986
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 9: essay by a Pastinian intellectual, Asmibshada, that he wrote and

987
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 9: released within a month of October seventh. This essay, titled

988
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 9: Moral Matters and Hard Times, again demonstrates the Palestinians have

989
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 9: never shied away from this discussion and indeed made criticisms

990
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 9: of these political parties very quickly following the attacks. Now,

991
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 9: of course, Bashada lays the blame for civilian deaths on Israel,

992
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 9: given that it targets Palestinian civilians as he argues out

993
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 9: of racism, and as he argues to try to turn

994
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 9: the population against armed tactics and armed resistance, and he

995
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 9: quotes Israeli leaders directly here. So he talks about President

996
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 9: Herzog saying there are no innocence in Gaza and Israeli

997
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 9: Defense Minister you Off Gallant at the time calling people

998
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 9: in Gaza human animals. And he also points out that

999
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 9: Israeli society at the time was overwhelmingly supportive of cutting

1000
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 9: off food, water, and medicine to Gaza. So, although Bashada

1001
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 9: rejects this kind of absolute evil framing of the attacks

1002
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 9: and says we need to understand the context of a

1003
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 9: seventeen year see John Gaza settlement expansion, incursions on the

1004
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 9: al Axamosk and prisoner mistreatment. He also plainly argues that

1005
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 9: immoral acts committed during October seventh So to him, documented

1006
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 9: instances of harm to civilians, theft, mistreatment, et cetera, are

1007
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 9: not acts of resistance, and in fact, from his perspective,

1008
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 9: they harm legitimate resistance, and he argues again a month

1009
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 9: within the attacks, that the leadership of the quote unquote

1010
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 9: resistance have a duty to clarify what happened and condemn

1011
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 9: those immoral acts. He says, quote having recognized a people's

1012
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 9: right to resist occupation, can it be concluded that we

1013
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 9: are not permitted to judge the morality of acts of

1014
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 9: resistance to occupation. My answer is that, on the contrary,

1015
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 9: it is not only permissible, but perhaps necessary end quote.

1016
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 9: So he argues that the right to resist does not

1017
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 9: exempt these movements from moral judgment, and distinguishing between legitimate

1018
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 9: military operations and a moral acts against civilians is essential

1019
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 9: to maintaining the justice of the Pastinian cause. Even as

1020
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 9: we can acknowledge and emphasize the quote moral depravity of

1021
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 9: the Israeli response end quote. Now, whether you agree with

1022
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 9: him or not, whether you side with one of the

1023
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 9: panelists I mentioned from the interview or the other, what

1024
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 9: I want people to take away from this episode is

1025
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 9: that all of this clearly shows Palestinians have been taking

1026
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 9: seriously the strategic and moral implications of all of these

1027
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 9: tactics arm tactics included, and that there isn't any one

1028
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 9: party that speaks for what Postinians want right now. The

1029
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 9: only way to get national consensus is to allow the

1030
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 9: Palestinians to create or revive the institutions necessary for that

1031
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 9: to take place. Disempowering Palestinians, ignoring their aspirations and ignoring

1032
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 9: the need for their input, or blocking them from undergoing

1033
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 9: this essential process will only prolong the conflict and prolong

1034
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 9: the suffering. That's it for me today, Thanks for listening.

1035
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: Welcome to It Could Happened Here, a podcast frequently about

1036
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: the horrifying tech gouls and in this case, venture capital

1037
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: gouls who are plotting to take over the United States

1038
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: and have already made your lives significantly worse. I am

1039
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: your host, Mia Wong, and with me today, I'm very,

1040
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: very excited about this to talk about the forces of

1041
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: venture capital and how they're ruining our lives. Is Shaneley,

1042
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: who is one of the people who puts together the

1043
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: website VC Infodocs, which I really cannot recommend enough. It

1044
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: is the most comprehensive, compile source of information on these

1045
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: venture capital firms and the network state and all the

1046
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: things that I've been talking about that I've ever encountered.

1047
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: It was a very significant source for the episodes that

1048
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: I did about Abundance. Shanley, Welcome to the show.

1049
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for having me.

1050
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 5: This is actually the first podcast I've ever done, so

1051
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 5: thank you.

1052
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 10: I feel very special.

1053
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 8: So it's great, It's it's good to be here with you.

1054
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1055
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk a little bit about your

1056
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: work and about your time confronting the sort of Leviathan

1057
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: of venture capital.

1058
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1059
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 5: Absolutely, So. I actually used to work in the tech industry.

1060
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 5: It feels like a lifetime ago, but I remember when

1061
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 5: I first started encountering venture capital, like I knew in

1062
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 5: my body and my heart and my soul that something

1063
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 5: was terribly wrong with this situation.

1064
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 8: And so I started following that down, you know, over.

1065
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 5: The course of years, and now I've been doing it

1066
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 5: for about thirteen years. At different times, I've been more

1067
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 5: of an activist. I ran a tech critical magazine at

1068
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 5: one point, and now I really do a bunch of

1069
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 5: research and work with other researchers around the world to

1070
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 5: try to bring as much much serious and material information

1071
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 5: about venture capital and what we're facing as possible and

1072
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 5: put it in people's hands who can do something about it.

1073
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those hands are amazingly You the listener, You,

1074
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: dear listener, can be one of the people who helps

1075
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: end these people's reign over the world. Absolutely so, all right,

1076
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: I think the place that we should start is I

1077
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: think when people think about and it's something that you have

1078
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: talked about, when people think about sort of venture capital

1079
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: and tech and the wave that they're trying to take

1080
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: over the country, there is this myopic focus on Peter

1081
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: Thiel and Jarvin Curtis because they are these sort of

1082
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: almost semi mythological at this point figures who have a

1083
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: bunch of really really unhinged beliefs and love talking about

1084
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: them constantly.

1085
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 5: Yes, one hundred percent. It almost turns into a circus.

1086
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 5: Look at these freaks, get these like three freaks that

1087
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 5: then get sort of obsessively focused on and Sam Altman

1088
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 5: and one is one of those. Peter Tiela's one of those.

1089
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 5: Curtis Jarvin is one of those. And it kind of

1090
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 5: ends up being people are looking at this through the

1091
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 5: lens of individuals, through the lens of sort of these

1092
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 5: cults of personalities that are being created. They're relating to

1093
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 5: this issue through sort of like individual players in the environment,

1094
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 5: and that's actually very limiting when we're talking about a

1095
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 5: system that consists of trillions of dollars, hundreds of venture

1096
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 5: capital firms, thousands and thousands and thousands of startups, and

1097
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 5: all of the financial structures that are around them. So

1098
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 5: it has this effect of almost minimizing what's happening, yeah,

1099
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 5: and also kind of diverting something so serious into something

1100
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 5: that is kind of like, well, we can just make

1101
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 5: fun of them and that's gonna do something, and that's activism.

1102
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 8: The reality is they.

1103
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 5: Think that we are labrats. Yeah, they do not care

1104
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 5: what we think about them. So having this very like

1105
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 5: we're gonna call them stupid, we're gonna call them dumb,

1106
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 5: we're gonna make fun of them, we're gonna do whatever,

1107
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 5: that becomes the dominant form of critique and that takes

1108
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 5: us way off course of what's actually happening.

1109
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's a kind of like Great Man

1110
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: theory a venture capital yes, yeah, And this isn't a

1111
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: situation where it's like, you know, you're looking at like

1112
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: Napoleon history on horseback stuff and you're you're debating whether

1113
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: or okay, to what extent is just like the Great

1114
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: Man and to what extent this is like the structural

1115
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: forces of history. This is a situation where like we're

1116
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: looking at a structural force and everyone is like looking

1117
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: at the clown they've stuck on top of the structural force.

1118
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: It's like, no, no, no, no, no, we got to understand

1119
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: the actual structures here, which I think you've done maybe

1120
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: the best job I've ever seen, and actually looking at

1121
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with, which is these networks of hundreds

1122
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: of venture capital firms and startups and yeah, this entire

1123
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: sort of ecosystem that has become a sort of force

1124
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: of history.

1125
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 5: Yes, one hundred person And that's where the conversation needs

1126
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 5: to go is towards like what are we actually dealing with,

1127
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 5: Like what are we actually facing and what are the

1128
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 5: causes of that So I always like to start with

1129
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 5: sort of talking about you know, what are some of

1130
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 5: the core dynamics that are.

1131
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 8: Happening within venture capital.

1132
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 5: One of them is that venture capitalists act as a

1133
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 5: central coordinator of this giant machinery of startups and technological

1134
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 5: development and infrastructure. So one thing I often see, like

1135
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 5: you might be looking at like fifteen different startups and

1136
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 5: that's all the same thing. Yeah, you're even looking at

1137
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 5: five different VC firms. That is all the same thing.

1138
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 8: It is our.

1139
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 5: Cartel that it has a central financial backbone that is

1140
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 5: generating companies at an incredible speed with incredible efficiency. They

1141
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 5: are machines for turning out these startups which they're then

1142
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 5: able to orchestrate to work together, and that becomes just

1143
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 5: a profound force and a very efficient force in changing

1144
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 5: the world, in interacting with the world, and as we

1145
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 5: increasingly see, you know, impacting geopolitics.

1146
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: So for people like me who are fortunate enough to

1147
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: not sort of live inside one of these people's center

1148
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: of power, which is you know, like places like the

1149
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: Bay or like these these places where these concentrations of

1150
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: tech capital have fundamentally reshaped the world to the extent

1151
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: that it feels just being in one of these places

1152
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: feels so different than being in a place that's not

1153
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: like a tech capital center. For those of us who

1154
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: like aren't living as much under the eye of the panopticon.

1155
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit about what venture capital

1156
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: is dex and then what the effect on sort of

1157
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: the tech sector that it's had has been.

1158
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1159
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely, So, you know, venture capital essentially what it does.

1160
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 5: It takes in capital from around the world. And one

1161
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 5: of the interesting things about venture capital is like we

1162
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 5: do not have a lot of visibility into where their

1163
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 5: money is coming from. We know some things about them,

1164
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 5: but we do not get a list of like here's

1165
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 5: everyone who's giving us money.

1166
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 8: So we have all this money coming in, and then

1167
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 8: on the.

1168
01:05:55,240 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 5: Outside of that, weapons companies are coming out, Yeah, crypto

1169
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 5: companies are coming out, and you know, derne companies coming out,

1170
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 5: nuclear energy companies are coming out. So you sort of

1171
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 5: have this like it's almost like a black box where

1172
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 5: unknown money goes in. Yeah, and then all of this

1173
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 5: shit comes out the other side.

1174
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 8: And that becomes really.

1175
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 5: Scary when you start to look at things like we

1176
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 5: know that Israel is funding many venture capital firms in

1177
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 5: the US, and those venture capital firms are turning out

1178
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 5: dozens and dozens of weapons companies, and then those weapons

1179
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 5: companies are going to Israel and being used in the genocide.

1180
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 8: So you have these very sort of.

1181
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 5: Complex relationships going on between like the investors, between other

1182
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 5: nations and what venture capital is doing.

1183
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: One of the things that this reminds me of is

1184
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: this is something we've talked about on this show to

1185
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: some extent, but one of the major forces that kind

1186
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 1: of reshaped the latter half of the twentieth century was

1187
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: after the sort of oil shocks, where you know, you

1188
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: have all of these countries, like you have like countries

1189
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: like Saudi Arabia, like the golf monarchies who are like

1190
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: very intimately tied to all of these All of these

1191
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: venture capital firms are certainly just flush with oil money,

1192
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: and they have this problem, which is that, Okay, we

1193
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: have all of these piles of money, but this money

1194
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,919
Speaker 1: is capital, right, and capital wants to be turned into

1195
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: more and increasing amounts of capital. But how do you

1196
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: do that, Like where do you actually put this money

1197
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: in an economy where you know, like this is the

1198
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: context of the seventies, where like output everywhere is decreasing

1199
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: and like the returns are on capital are falling, and

1200
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: you know the long range rate of returns collapsing, what

1201
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: do you do with it? And in the seventies, the

1202
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: thing that they did with it was they put it

1203
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: into like third world debt. And this is like why

1204
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: the term third world is a slur now when it

1205
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: used to be a political movement, is that, you know,

1206
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: these countries took all of these redgestable interest rate loans

1207
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: and then when the interest rate went to like two

1208
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: hundred percent or whatever, they got completely annihilated. And some

1209
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: of that capital went to weapons, because weapons are a

1210
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: thing that you can put capital into that destroys capital.

1211
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: And also it let's you know it lets like Saudi

1212
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: the Saudi monarchy stay in power. But it's also a

1213
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 1: thing where like you don't find a way to make

1214
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: money with that capital. You could just buy a bunch

1215
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: of jet fighters from the US, which do nothing, but

1216
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: you spent your money on something one hundred percent.

1217
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 5: And I think to that point, specifically Saudi Arabia, one

1218
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 5: of the main reasons what's happening in venture capital now

1219
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 5: is because Saudi Arabia is trying to diversify its wealth

1220
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 5: outside of oil, and they want a globally competitive technology industry,

1221
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 5: so they're going to turn to the people who can

1222
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 5: give them that, and that is venture capital, and that

1223
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 5: a tech companies in America. There's sort of this race

1224
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 5: happening all over the world of countries trying to make

1225
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 5: sure that they're able to compete or at least exist

1226
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 5: on the technological plane of what's being developed. And that

1227
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 5: makes venture capital almost like the crown jewel now that

1228
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 5: everyone is trying to get ahold of.

1229
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,759
Speaker 8: So now they have this huge leverage.

1230
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 5: And you hear them. They hang out with MBS. They

1231
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 5: sing the praises of MBS, you know, to the heavens,

1232
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 5: and they have done a lot of work to quote

1233
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 5: unquote repair the image of MBS, particularly after the killing

1234
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 5: of Jamal Kushogi, who is a huge major journalist, and

1235
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 5: for a time that cooled relations between Saudi Arabia and

1236
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 5: vendor Capital, at least on the surface. But they don't

1237
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 5: care about that stuff, you know.

1238
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, and I think I think the

1239
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: other part of that campaign too, and this this is

1240
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: just one of my mia on the soapbox things, is

1241
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 1: that the other thing they were trying to get everyone

1242
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: to forget about. Was the hideous, hiteous war that all

1243
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: of the Golf states, particularly Saudi Arabia, but also the

1244
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: UAE has a massive part in this. We're fighting in

1245
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: Yemen where they we literally don't know how many people

1246
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: they killed, like they tried, they tried to do a

1247
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 1: starvation genocide of the whole country because they couldn't win

1248
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: the war militarily. They were deploying Sudanese child soldiers as

1249
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: mercenaries who have been taken from the Jualadid, the group

1250
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: who's now like doing a genocide in Sudan. They are

1251
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 1: also people who do the genocide and are four back

1252
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: in the two thousands. Like this is like the scale

1253
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: of atrocity that they're committing. You know, everyone's very focused

1254
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,919
Speaker 1: on walkashowgime is like yeah, it's very very bad obviously

1255
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: to like kill journalists and like cut them up with

1256
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 1: bone salt. But like these are people who were doing

1257
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: airstrikes on school buses. These are people who were again

1258
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: deploying Sudanese the child soldiers on battlefields. And these people

1259
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: are going, no, fuck it. Not only are we going

1260
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: to rehabilitate their image, we're going to take their money,

1261
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: and we're going to build them fucking weapons forever.

1262
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1263
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 5: You know, when you talk about like what is a

1264
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 5: venture capitalist, and one of the things that they really

1265
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 5: do is they are like constructing entire markets. They're not

1266
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 5: just they're not just creating a startup hoping it succeeds.

1267
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 5: And then the case of the military, you know, people

1268
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 5: focus on and Dural. They have hundreds of weapons companies

1269
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 5: now hundreds of weapons companies, and they have the big

1270
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 5: prime companies like and Dural that are really like the

1271
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 5: power houses that are supposed to be like Lockheed and raytheon.

1272
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 5: But they also have weapons part manufacturers. They have drone

1273
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 5: companies for like all layers of earth see you know,

1274
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 5: air everything like that. They're doing hypersonic missiles, They've advocated

1275
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 5: for a new Manhattan project. They're working on developing weapons

1276
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 5: of mass destruction. So when venture capital is going into

1277
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 5: these spaces like they are going into win, they are

1278
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 5: going in with a fully envisioned picture of what the

1279
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:20,560
Speaker 5: new age military looks like with AI technologies, with autonomous technologies,

1280
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 5: you know, with everything that they've been able to developed,

1281
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 5: and now they have a fully featured war platform that

1282
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 5: they have to try to get other countries to buy

1283
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 5: because it's ready.

1284
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, so they need wars.

1285
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,759
Speaker 1: Which is extremely bad news for everyone on Earth.

1286
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 8: Everybody, Yes, everyone on Earth.

1287
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 5: And you know, they have been so deeply complicit in

1288
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 5: the genocide of Palestinians.

1289
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 8: They are so incredibly enmeshed with Israel.

1290
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 5: Venture capitalists refer to Israel as a technocratic state and

1291
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 5: as sort of like the ideal state and a model

1292
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 5: for what they can be as a technocratic state because Israel,

1293
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 5: by proportion, the share of tech GDP in Israel is

1294
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 5: actually twice as much as in the US, and as

1295
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 5: parts of the Israeli economy have suffered as a result

1296
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 5: of the genocide, the tech industry is doing amazing yah,

1297
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 5: and venture kapitalists are pouring money into it. And so

1298
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 5: you see that one of the immediate things that has

1299
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:41,560
Speaker 5: come out of, you know, the Israel American VC relationship

1300
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 5: is the genocide, and is the ongoing development of themselves

1301
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 5: and of Israel's the technocratic state.

1302
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 8: It's awful.

1303
01:13:52,520 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think I want to zoom out a

1304
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 1: little bit. We've we've talked a bit about you know,

1305
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: what these companies do. Do you want to talk about

1306
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: some of the major firms that are building all of

1307
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: these things and building all of these startups that people

1308
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: haven't heard about and need to know about.

1309
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, one hundred percent, So people have heard about andresen Horowitz,

1310
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 5: but not enough.

1311
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 8: Definitely not enough.

1312
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 5: If I had to put a firm that is the

1313
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 5: most responsible for what's going on, it is definitely andresen Horowitz.

1314
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 5: One of the things that's happening in the venture capital market.

1315
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 5: Why this is happening is because a small number of

1316
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 5: firms is forming a monopoly on venture capital, and andresen

1317
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 5: Horowitz is right there. And in fact, in twenty twenty five,

1318
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:06,560
Speaker 5: dresen Horowisz raised over eighteen percent of all venture capital

1319
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 5: dollars just that one firm. Okay, so now you start

1320
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 5: adding that up the other firms that they work most

1321
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 5: closely with and are working on the exact same things

1322
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 5: and fund the exact same startups. Founder's fund, Peter Thiel's

1323
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 5: firm is one of those. General Catalysts is another one

1324
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 5: that's very very important. And General Catalyst looks a lot

1325
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 5: like andresen Horowitz.

1326
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 8: They are very close.

1327
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 5: And you see this throughout like you're like you have

1328
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 5: different names on your offices but y'all are the same thing.

1329
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 5: Sequoia is another big one. They were one of the

1330
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,759
Speaker 5: early venture capital firms. They did not make their first

1331
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 5: devents investment until twenty twenty three, but they were founded

1332
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy two. So this is an example of

1333
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 5: how a giant VC firm has really been yoked to

1334
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 5: an agenda that started in sort of these other younger

1335
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 5: upstart players and Andres and Horoz has talked about how

1336
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 5: ultimately venter capital will consist of four or five major

1337
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 5: firms and then basically no mid size firms and then

1338
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 5: some sort of boutique firms that are a little bit

1339
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 5: more specialized. So in that that kind of category, we

1340
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 5: have firms like lux Capital. Lex Capital is one of

1341
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 5: the most bloodthirsty, sociopathic, zionist, weird biotech shit, weird weapon shit,

1342
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 5: out and out bloodthirsty extremists, like just openly maybe one

1343
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 5: of the most in that sense. They're incredibly Zionist, and

1344
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 5: they are a relatively small firm, but they're able to

1345
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 5: be in the mix because they have this sociopathy, this

1346
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 5: blood lust that you actually see across all of these

1347
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 5: firms is that like there's sort of like outright sadistic

1348
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 5: at a certain point. You know, Andresen Horowitz actually hired

1349
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 5: Daniel Penny too killed jordan' neely, who was a thirty

1350
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 5: year old, you know, black homeless man. And this guy

1351
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 5: was not a venture capitalist and Mark Andresen hired him.

1352
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 5: There's a degradation in morality, and there's sort of this

1353
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 5: like welling up in the venture capital space of this

1354
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 5: like extremely depraved like anti morality where they hired this murder. Yeah,

1355
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 5: you know, someone who killed a black man and and

1356
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 5: made press releases about it and they talk about what

1357
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 5: a great VC he is, and so they're immersed in

1358
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 5: this like this like culture of sort of of of

1359
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:19,759
Speaker 5: war and like genocide and like killing them so super disserting, So.

1360
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 1: Any any great things happening here the most powerful people

1361
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 1: in the world.

1362
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, really bad.

1363
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 5: It's it's a moral free fall for sure. So so yeah,

1364
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 5: you have that type of stuff going on. But you

1365
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 5: know Lux Capital we talked about that. You have Eric Schmidt,

1366
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 5: who's the Google CEO. He runs a number of sort

1367
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,639
Speaker 5: of smaller scale venture capital firms, and then you have

1368
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 5: some of the major crypto firms like Ribbit Capital, Paradigm

1369
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 5: Blockchain Capital, and actually Blockchain Capital, which runs a crypto cartel,

1370
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 5: is an investor in Blue Sky.

1371
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 8: He thinks great.

1372
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 5: So everyone who's thinking that, you know, blue Sky is

1373
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 5: this wonderful alternative, Like Blue Sky is owned by a

1374
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,759
Speaker 5: venture capitalists who are running a crypto cartel.

1375
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 8: So those are some of those firms.

1376
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 5: And you know, you have y Combinator, which is a

1377
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 5: smaller firm feeding in.

1378
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 8: Then you have some other kind of pieces outside that.

1379
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 5: One that's super important is and this is always tough

1380
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 5: for me to talk about because people look at you

1381
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 5: like you're conspiracy theorists if you say anything about the CIA. Yeah,

1382
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 5: if it's one hundred percent true. But the CIA made

1383
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 5: a venture capital firm many many years ago, and that

1384
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 5: venture capital firm is called inq tel and they have

1385
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 5: funded over eight hundred startups.

1386
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: It's amazing, incredible stuff. Also, the fact that they called

1387
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: it in q tel.

1388
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 10: Is just like incredible. Come on, So, yeah, we're gonna.

1389
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: Put intail in the name of it, but we're gonna

1390
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 1: put it in qtel because fuck you god, it's like

1391
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:10,759
Speaker 1: qt spy bullshit.

1392
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 8: Yes, it's totally mild. And I always tell this story.

1393
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 5: You know, I worked at startups and sliconbl I worked

1394
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 5: in database startups, Internet infrastructure APIs, like you know, infrastructure

1395
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 5: service stuff like that. I went to a big data

1396
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 5: conference in like maybe like twenty twelve or something like that.

1397
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 5: I won't say, I don't know for sure which one

1398
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 5: it was, but it was in New York. There was

1399
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 5: all all these companies there. One of the keynote speakers

1400
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 5: was the Chief Technology Officer of the.

1401
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 10: CIA, J's Christ.

1402
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1403
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 5: So none of this has been a secret to people

1404
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 5: in the industry.

1405
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 8: The CAA operates.

1406
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 5: Openly in the industry and invests openly in thery.

1407
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 8: But he got on.

1408
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 5: Stage and he said, our goal is to collect all

1409
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 5: of the data in the world and save it forever.

1410
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 8: And I looked around me.

1411
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 5: To see if anyone else was And this was months

1412
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 5: before the soda and revelations. Yeah, so the CIA was

1413
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 5: openly admitted into all all of this stuff anyways. But

1414
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 5: point being, you know, and in q Tel has been

1415
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 5: so key to this because they have brought all of

1416
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 5: the venture capital startups into the government, into intelligence and

1417
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:45,719
Speaker 5: into defense. From the CIA's perspective, this has also given

1418
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 5: them a revenue source and a way to operate outside

1419
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 5: of just the government budget. And we can go back

1420
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 5: to this when we're talking about the network state, because

1421
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 5: what the CIA is really good at is cooing and

1422
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 5: other countries. And now you see the network state down

1423
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:09,479
Speaker 5: in Latin America trying to keep governments down there. So

1424
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 5: there's been in there's been an incredible fusion of the

1425
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 5: CIA with venture capital that has has transformed both of them.

1426
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 8: They are both changed by this.

1427
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's like tech is the new like

1428
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: running opium out of like Vietnam or whatever. It's like,

1429
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 1: I guess we've replaced. We've replaced doing like really overt

1430
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 1: drug running shit to fuel our operations with uh oh, hey,

1431
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 1: we can just get on stage and like talk to

1432
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: all of these venture capital gouls and get a bunch

1433
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: of money that way for a like whatever weird shit

1434
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 1: we want to be up to.

1435
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's wild. So you have that.

1436
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:53,519
Speaker 5: And then another piece of it is that venture capital

1437
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 5: has formed this incredibly close relationship with black Rock and Blackstone,

1438
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 5: so they have a trigal finance backing.

1439
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: Can you explain for people who are not familiar what

1440
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 1: Blackrock and Blackstone are and that I can tell my

1441
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: completely deranged Blackstone story.

1442
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:19,120
Speaker 5: Okay, so, yes, Blackrock is a giant, you know, financial beast,

1443
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 5: a monster monstrosity. Yeah. I don't have the most up

1444
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 5: to date numbers on how much money that they manage,

1445
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,719
Speaker 5: but as of twenty twenty five, it was over twelve

1446
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 5: trillion dollars in assets under management. Christ So you are

1447
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 5: talking about a absolutely, you.

1448
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:45,719
Speaker 8: Know, huge, huge financial entity.

1449
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 5: So they have been one of the first to really

1450
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:55,560
Speaker 5: back venture capital in the traditional finance world in crypto.

1451
01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 8: So they are the ones that started bringing.

1452
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 5: To market the ETFs that made it easy to invest

1453
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 5: in in bitcoin. They have ETFs that are trading. They

1454
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 5: also have one for ethereum.

1455
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:12,680
Speaker 1: Can you explain what an ETF is.

1456
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 5: Yes, what an ETF is, It's basically, you know, what

1457
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 5: it does for crypto is, instead of having to buy

1458
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 5: and manage your own crypto assets, the financial institution basically

1459
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:35,759
Speaker 5: takes on the administration and management of those underlying assets. So,

1460
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 5: you know, for investors who don't want to be on coinbase,

1461
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:47,720
Speaker 5: you know, buying from these like sketchy companies, these were

1462
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:53,799
Speaker 5: ways to make these assets available to the investment market

1463
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 5: and crypto really needed that and Blackrock came in to

1464
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 5: do that, and the they partnered with Coinbase, and they

1465
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 5: partnered with other you know, venture capital things, so they

1466
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 5: did the.

1467
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 8: VC is a big solid there.

1468
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 5: And then to our point, like they are very invested

1469
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 5: with this, Saudi is as well partnered with the Saudi

1470
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 5: Sovereign Wealth Fund, you know, the leading to weapons deals.

1471
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 5: They are also doing a bunch of data centers in

1472
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 5: the UK and they've been operating in Israel for a

1473
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 5: really long time, so that you know, this was a

1474
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 5: very natural partner, I would say for venture capital.

1475
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:43,479
Speaker 8: But it also gives venture capital.

1476
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 10: A lot.

1477
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 5: The Chicapo has gotten a lot out of this deal.

1478
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,799
Speaker 5: So you have that start to happen. And one question

1479
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 5: I've always asked is, like to crypto people who have

1480
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 5: said like this is the way around the banks and

1481
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, Well, why is Wall Street getting crypto

1482
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 5: before you?

1483
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 10: Yeah? It really truly not. It does not really seemed

1484
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 10: to be doing that. It's not.

1485
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 8: It's just the math is not math in here.

1486
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: One of the things I think is interesting about what

1487
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,879
Speaker 1: you've done is talking about what the relationship between crypto

1488
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: and these venture capital firms is and what purpose crypto

1489
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 1: serves for them.

1490
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 3: Yes, can you get into that.

1491
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, So crypto one of my absolute favorite topics to

1492
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,960
Speaker 5: talk about. There are a lot of ways of looking

1493
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 5: at this. One of the ones that I find most

1494
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:50,959
Speaker 5: interesting is when the first sort of dot com bubble

1495
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 5: happened and when they first started making absolute fucked tons

1496
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 5: of money. So they have tons of money coming and

1497
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 5: they're making tons of money, and they are putting that

1498
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 5: money in banks they don't own and financial infrastructure they

1499
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 5: don't own, and they're paying a lot of.

1500
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 8: Taxes on it. So it's some point the decision.

1501
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 5: Is made by them, like why would you want to

1502
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:21,559
Speaker 5: make so much money and then have that money going

1503
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 5: right out the door to a bunch of bankers who

1504
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 5: are going to take all your money. So at some

1505
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 5: point it occurs to them, all of this money that's

1506
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 5: transacting not just through us, but over the internet overall

1507
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 5: is something we can make a ton of money on.

1508
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:43,559
Speaker 5: And one of Mark Andresen's first things was trying to

1509
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 5: get internet credit card payments working over the browser, and

1510
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 5: then you have PayPal, So at the point that they

1511
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:55,719
Speaker 5: sort of were like, we're going to do our.

1512
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,560
Speaker 8: Own financial infrastructure.

1513
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 5: Okay, Now they have a financial infrastructure that is literally

1514
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 5: in competition with the sovereign financial system of the United

1515
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 5: States of America. And this, more than anything else, might

1516
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 5: be the source of the rupture between the American government

1517
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 5: and between venture capital because as soon as you start

1518
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 5: developing this ecosystem and people think that crypto is just

1519
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 5: like bitcoin and like doge coin and like ethereum, no, no, no, no.

1520
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:34,919
Speaker 5: These people have a whole bunch of banks. They have banks,

1521
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 5: They are developing stock markets and stock exchanges. They have

1522
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:42,720
Speaker 5: point of sales systems, they have betting markets.

1523
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh god, crypto betting markets.

1524
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they.

1525
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 5: Have gotment, they have you know, they have loans programs,

1526
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 5: they have savings, they have.

1527
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:53,480
Speaker 8: Blah blah blah.

1528
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 5: Like crypto is really a very fully featured financial system,

1529
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 5: and they need to get is much money out of

1530
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 5: the existing financial system moved into their financial system. So

1531
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 5: they are in this war essentially over that. And that's

1532
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 5: what we're looking at, is the global financial system being

1533
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 5: replaced with a financial system that is owned and controlled

1534
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 5: by venture capitalists. And that's a profound thing that has

1535
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 5: profound implications. We're going to talk about the network state more.

1536
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 5: But another reason why the network stay has happened is

1537
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:40,439
Speaker 5: because as the crypto market really kind of started to

1538
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 5: take off, they decided, we don't want to pay taxes

1539
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 5: on this. We did this all by ourselves. And one

1540
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 5: of the things the network state is it is a

1541
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 5: series of global tax shelters and tax evasion zones all

1542
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,440
Speaker 5: over the world because they knew that they were striking

1543
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 5: goal and they wanted to make sure they get it

1544
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 5: out of having to pay it to the irs and

1545
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:08,599
Speaker 5: having to pay it to the people in this country

1546
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:09,560
Speaker 5: and other countries.

1547
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know, like the more control you

1548
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 1: can get over like what there is of the American state,

1549
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 1: the more you can just be like, hey, look, we're

1550
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 1: just gonna not ever look into the fact that there's

1551
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 1: all this tax evation shit going on. You can just

1552
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,640
Speaker 1: like use our control of like vant and you know,

1553
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 1: like our control of the levers of the state to

1554
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 1: make sure that like we're just allowed to do this.

1555
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 8: M yeah, one hundred percent. You know.

1556
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:37,879
Speaker 5: It also goes back to like what are the roots

1557
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 5: sort of causes of tech fascism or whatever you would

1558
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 5: like to call them. And one of the big reasons

1559
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 5: for that is because as venture capital itself is diversified

1560
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 5: and it's moving into finance, and it's moving into medicine,

1561
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,799
Speaker 5: and it's moving into land, and it's moving into energy.

1562
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,040
Speaker 5: There are existing monopolies in every single part.

1563
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 8: Of those markets that they have to.

1564
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,759
Speaker 5: Fight in order to get into them, and they've openly

1565
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 5: talked about this. So when they're entering these markets, they're

1566
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 5: going to war with existing monopolies in order to create

1567
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 5: their own monopolies. And that's forced them to these really

1568
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 5: like sort of extreme and perverse strategies like we're going

1569
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 5: to cure the US government, like God, and they've been

1570
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 5: really successful at that. So they work hard. Everyone's like

1571
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 5: they're lazy, they don't do anything, they're not smart, blah

1572
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:39,599
Speaker 5: blah blah. I'm like Mark and Dresen works like the devil.

1573
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 5: He does not take a day off.

1574
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 10: He is.

1575
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 3: Unfortunately.

1576
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: So the story here, I think is one of these

1577
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 1: companies getting you know, heavily invested into the defense sector,

1578
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 1: heavily invested into building their own sort of financial system,

1579
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 1: like to some accept building links with the major financial

1580
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 1: powers that already exists, and to some extent, you know,

1581
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: like combating the powers that they want that are like

1582
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:14,320
Speaker 1: monopolizing the places where they want to expand into. But

1583
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 1: there's also a global strategy here that's all kind of

1584
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,479
Speaker 1: like a part of this larger plan, and I was

1585
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 1: wondering if you could talk a little bit about that

1586
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 1: before we go much deeper into a next episode.

1587
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, so, you know, I think what we have

1588
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 5: talked about so far as we'really looking at like kind

1589
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 5: of root causes, dynamics, new markets they're going into, and

1590
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 5: the next sort of stage of thinking about that is.

1591
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 8: Like what what demands.

1592
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 5: And what global program and strategy comes out of sort

1593
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 5: of their needs for capital, for returns, for expansion, for

1594
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 5: fighting monopolies, for tax evasion, everything like that. And what

1595
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 5: they've come up with what we can already see, is

1596
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,919
Speaker 5: really like a global playbook.

1597
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 8: For how they're going to do that. And this is about.

1598
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 5: Running everything in the world as venture capital firms and

1599
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 5: their startups and including the government. So what is happening

1600
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 5: in America is the venture capitalists are trying to replace

1601
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 5: the government with venture capital firms and their startups who

1602
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 5: are operating the state that can be done everywhere. They

1603
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 5: want global deregulation, they want global suspension of taxes all

1604
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 5: over the world. They're going to bolster techno fascists align

1605
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 5: right wing politicians. We already see this with Bukele, with Malay.

1606
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,599
Speaker 5: They're going to do the interference in elections, the lobby

1607
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 5: and the bribery, social medium manipulation, everything that they need

1608
01:33:49,280 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 5: to do to make sure they get politicians all over

1609
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:56,080
Speaker 5: the place who are going to take their orders. As

1610
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 5: we discuss replacing the global economic system with the crypto

1611
01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:05,400
Speaker 5: financial system, and then these megaprojects, the data centers, the

1612
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 5: new cities in order to feed all of their data

1613
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:12,280
Speaker 5: centers and all of their new factories and their new manufacturing.

1614
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,760
Speaker 5: We're headed for a new age of resource extraction where

1615
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 5: they're literally already going all over the world with AI

1616
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 5: mining companies to find li the uranium and cobalt. They

1617
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 5: need to re arm all of Europe, they need to

1618
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 5: recolonize Latin American Africa. They need to suppress leftism and

1619
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 5: communism globally. And you know, ultimately this all unfolds within

1620
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:42,760
Speaker 5: a war with China, because that's what's waiting for them

1621
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 5: at the end of this thing. And once you have

1622
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 5: all these things in place, you're looking at the rise

1623
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 5: of the techno fascist civilization, which is the network.

1624
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 8: State, which we are going to talk about in our

1625
01:34:58,320 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 8: next episode. It sounds u.

1626
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:02,760
Speaker 10: Yep.

1627
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:07,680
Speaker 3: So you could look forward to.

1628
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:12,840
Speaker 1: God the global systemic tech fashion state.

1629
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 3: Tomorrow. Oh God, Okay, Chayley.

1630
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:24,439
Speaker 1: Where can people find your work and more information about this?

1631
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 5: Yes, please check out the research site. It's a vc

1632
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 5: infodox dot com and like, please help us get this

1633
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:37,719
Speaker 5: information out there because people all over the world need

1634
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 5: to know stuff and to know what's hitting them. Particularly

1635
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 5: this affects other countries, and you know, we really need

1636
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 5: people who can activate around this information and make sure

1637
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 5: when we show up and we build our resistance that

1638
01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:00,560
Speaker 5: like that resistance is not designed to take down Curtis Yarvin. Yeah,

1639
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 5: it is designed to take down a capitalist system.

1640
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here the podcast where it's

1641
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,760
Speaker 1: happening both here and everywhere else. I am your host

1642
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 1: Fo Wong, and today we're talking about the it being

1643
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: the fascist network state that the all of these ventured

1644
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,840
Speaker 1: capital tech ghouls are trying to set up.

1645
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 3: And with you.

1646
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 1: Once again to talk about this is Shaneley, who is

1647
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 1: one of the contributors and people behind vc infodox, which

1648
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: is one of the best resources about these bloodthirsty tyrants.

1649
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:49,040
Speaker 10: Shy Welcome to the show.

1650
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 8: Thank you, thank you for having me again.

1651
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 1: I constantly have these moments where it's like, oh great,

1652
01:36:55,479 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: I'm talking to people who are really cool, and I

1653
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: really wish I was talking to them about literally anything else,

1654
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:03,599
Speaker 1: because oh my god, this stuff sucks. Like please, please

1655
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 1: cause the end of this system, so I could talk

1656
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,440
Speaker 1: to people about things that are good instead.

1657
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:09,640
Speaker 10: Of things that are imers.

1658
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 5: Yes, my dream is to not wake up every single

1659
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 5: morning and the first thing I think about is Winter Capital.

1660
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 8: I think about it every second of.

1661
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:22,799
Speaker 5: Every day, and then that's when I go to sleep

1662
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 5: thinking about and then that is also sometimes what I

1663
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 5: dream about, which is unfortunate.

1664
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:31,679
Speaker 10: You know, we've all been there.

1665
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 8: We've all been there.

1666
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 1: Oh god, So speaking of things all being in places, Look,

1667
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: they pay me the mediocre bucks if you have a

1668
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 1: better transitions more. But you know, let's get into what

1669
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:52,080
Speaker 1: the network state actually is, because I think it's something

1670
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: that is not understood particularly well.

1671
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:56,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, one hundred percent.

1672
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 5: So again this kind of comes in what we're talking

1673
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 5: about last episode, that kind of people's ideas about what

1674
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 5: these projects are not necessarily like fully fully formed. And

1675
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 5: I think a lot of people think that the network

1676
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:17,120
Speaker 5: state is just kind of like them going to do

1677
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:22,240
Speaker 5: weird shit, which yes, that's that's part of it. But

1678
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:26,000
Speaker 5: I think something that you know, people don't really see

1679
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:31,759
Speaker 5: is how how many purposes that the network state sites

1680
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:34,839
Speaker 5: have for them. You know, the network state is basically

1681
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:40,440
Speaker 5: creating zones around the world where they can execute their projects.

1682
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 5: So you know, some of these are more of the

1683
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 5: like ideological projects like maybe like practice or something like that.

1684
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 5: But you also see network state sites that are very

1685
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:58,720
Speaker 5: focused on being like industrial centers, manufacturing centers, you know,

1686
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 5: biotech and start development where they can get away from

1687
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 5: regulations where they can sort of benefit from like co

1688
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 5: development on a campus. You know, you have sort of

1689
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 5: new city ideas like California Forever. You have network state

1690
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 5: sites that the only thing they're doing right now is

1691
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 5: they're registering startups to operate in different countries and favorable terms.

1692
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:31,640
Speaker 5: You have a whole sort of bunch of different versions

1693
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:37,439
Speaker 5: of this, so it's a very like extensible concept for them.

1694
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 5: I think some other you know, interesting properties of the

1695
01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:45,719
Speaker 5: network state is that it can become like a point

1696
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:49,559
Speaker 5: of sort of negotiation with the with the host country.

1697
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,640
Speaker 5: Like one of the points of the network state is

1698
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 5: to open up a country to the cryptocurrency markets, to

1699
01:39:56,439 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 5: mining markets.

1700
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,520
Speaker 8: To you know, just the different for biotech markets.

1701
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,759
Speaker 5: This is a way of them getting into a country

1702
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:08,599
Speaker 5: like kind of on their own terms.

1703
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 8: Which I think is a big, big function of it.

1704
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:14,719
Speaker 5: A lot of it has to do with crypto adoption,

1705
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:19,400
Speaker 5: because if they're going to make cryptocurrency work, they need

1706
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 5: it to be adopted.

1707
01:40:21,400 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 8: Around the world.

1708
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 5: And this is why coinbase is making such extreme investments

1709
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:29,760
Speaker 5: in the network state, because this is a way to

1710
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:34,680
Speaker 5: also you know, get crypto into all of these markets,

1711
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:40,599
Speaker 5: start entering into trade with other nation states where the

1712
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:46,160
Speaker 5: points of negotiation are around regulation, are around taxation, around

1713
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 5: access to land and minerals.

1714
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 1: So can you describe kind of what does it look

1715
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:54,559
Speaker 1: like inside one of these zones, like for example, like

1716
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:58,800
Speaker 1: how do these compare to say, like a special economic zone,

1717
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 1: which is the kind of models of this that we've

1718
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 1: had traditionally.

1719
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:07,040
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, the network state is built

1720
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 5: using special economic zones, so it's really not functionally different

1721
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,040
Speaker 5: on a lot of different levels. It's more about like

1722
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:19,720
Speaker 5: who is using this special economic zone and what do

1723
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:24,200
Speaker 5: they want to do with it? Yea, and medical experimentation

1724
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 5: is actually a huge goal here because you know, again

1725
01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:33,840
Speaker 5: when we're talking about them getting into medical development, developing

1726
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:38,320
Speaker 5: all of these biotech startups, they're facing existing monopolies in

1727
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:38,760
Speaker 5: the US.

1728
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 8: They're also facing the FDA.

1729
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 5: The Network State book by Belaji shrina Vasan, who's an

1730
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 5: andresen Horowitz like guy for life like he's andresen Horowitz.

1731
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 5: One of the main motivations for the Network State is

1732
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:58,640
Speaker 5: getting to a place where you can't have any medical regulations,

1733
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:02,800
Speaker 5: and so in hanjurists they've been doing that. They've been

1734
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 5: doing unregulated clinical trials. The doctors in Honduras have been

1735
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,439
Speaker 5: organizing to try to shut this down and they haven't

1736
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:15,720
Speaker 5: been able to and they're gonna have way worse problems

1737
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 5: now because Trump just installed a new president, install the

1738
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:27,519
Speaker 5: president there who is in support and is taking the

1739
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:32,479
Speaker 5: steps to you know, support this a special economic zone

1740
01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:37,200
Speaker 5: called their ZA. But that's that's one of the big

1741
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:42,680
Speaker 5: reasons that they're doing it. Their medical offering is profound.

1742
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:48,040
Speaker 5: They're doing clinical trials, drug developments, activating clinical research sites.

1743
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:55,600
Speaker 5: They're also involved in like insurance software, insurance marketplaces, IVF, longevity,

1744
01:42:55,800 --> 01:42:59,559
Speaker 5: anti aging, like the whole you know thing. And this

1745
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:02,599
Speaker 5: goes back. It's like when venture capital is entering a

1746
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 5: new market now, like they come like locked and loaded

1747
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 5: with a full platform and getting more accelerated clinical trials

1748
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:18,120
Speaker 5: is something that is going to move their project forward significantly.

1749
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:21,599
Speaker 5: Network state is is a way to accomplish that.

1750
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:24,880
Speaker 1: So these these sort of nodes that they're setting up

1751
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 1: of these networks stix sites are places where you know,

1752
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:30,920
Speaker 1: they've been able to sort of carve out special economic

1753
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:33,920
Speaker 1: zone status that means that like the traditional sort of

1754
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:37,759
Speaker 1: regulatory structure of the country simply does not apply. Yes, yeah,

1755
01:43:37,800 --> 01:43:40,439
Speaker 1: which is very which is in a lot of ways,

1756
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 1: and this is like a special economics zone thing in general.

1757
01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:45,559
Speaker 1: It's like very sort of like fascist state of exception

1758
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:49,000
Speaker 1: where like oh yeah, no, we've just you know, there's

1759
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:50,880
Speaker 1: like a crisis in the crisis is that we can't

1760
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 1: do like human experimentation, and so we've now created this

1761
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:55,720
Speaker 1: zone where just none of.

1762
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 10: The laws apply.

1763
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:59,879
Speaker 1: It's like the kind of like evil Mirror World Universe

1764
01:44:00,160 --> 01:44:03,160
Speaker 1: version of like temporary autonomous zones, except it's like what

1765
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 1: if we had a permanent zone of fascism where all

1766
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:09,080
Speaker 1: the laws didn't apply, if we could just do whatever

1767
01:44:09,120 --> 01:44:09,880
Speaker 1: we wanted.

1768
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 8: One hundred percent.

1769
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:19,160
Speaker 5: It's also deeply concerning because the obsession with accelerating clinical innovation,

1770
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:23,240
Speaker 5: drug innovation, like whatever that is, like at some point

1771
01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 5: there is a like what makes that stuff move the fastest,

1772
01:44:27,560 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 5: and it's human trials and human experiments and the more

1773
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 5: people that you can shove, the faster you can shove

1774
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 5: through medical development.

1775
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 8: And that's very concerning.

1776
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 5: So to me, I see this as like a recipe

1777
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,040
Speaker 5: for large scale medical abuse and disaster.

1778
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:49,639
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, so yeah when you when you.

1779
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 5: Look at them doing is unregulated and unethical medical experiments

1780
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:59,640
Speaker 5: and trials in Honduras, and then you see and this

1781
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,200
Speaker 5: other part of the world in different countries in Africa

1782
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 5: that the network site is also targeting that you know.

1783
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:11,639
Speaker 5: Recently news came out about a very controversial and very

1784
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:18,440
Speaker 5: unethical experiment in Guinea Buso to test the vaccine timing

1785
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 5: of eppetitis B on fourteen thousand infants, and the acting

1786
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:27,680
Speaker 5: director of the CDC at the time that this was

1787
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:33,639
Speaker 5: approved is Jim o'nill. And Jim o'nill is from Peter

1788
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 5: Thiel's Vendor Capital from myth Roles and he was also

1789
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 5: on the board of the C studying Institute, which is

1790
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:46,360
Speaker 5: where a lot of this sort of network state stuff

1791
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:50,519
Speaker 5: does come from. So this is a recipe for like

1792
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:54,639
Speaker 5: mass scale medical abuse. And even if you look at

1793
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:58,639
Speaker 5: like what world coin, which is Sam Altman's like eyeball

1794
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 5: scanning thing like that is a biotech thing like that

1795
01:46:02,800 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 5: starts to get into the the realm of like medicine

1796
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:11,800
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. So you see these sort of

1797
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:16,880
Speaker 5: forces starting to converge in these areas, like these aren't

1798
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:20,519
Speaker 5: infants that they are doing these babies that they're doing

1799
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:24,640
Speaker 5: these on. And at the same time, in that same country,

1800
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 5: an extremely well established executive in the network state is

1801
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:33,080
Speaker 5: looking to build a network state city.

1802
01:46:33,360 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 8: So you know, getting these sites.

1803
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:40,519
Speaker 5: In there into different countries in Africa, they can go

1804
01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:44,320
Speaker 5: after the precious minerals. They have a labor source there.

1805
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:49,320
Speaker 5: They're already exploiting people there for the AI content moration

1806
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:53,799
Speaker 5: and tagging and like all of that with disastrous effects.

1807
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:56,479
Speaker 5: You also have the really concerning factor of like so

1808
01:46:56,600 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 5: many people in the top of the venture capital apparatus

1809
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 5: are South Africans, and when you just start to put

1810
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 5: all those pieces together, it's extremely worrying. One of the

1811
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:15,800
Speaker 5: venture capital mining startups because now they have multiple mining startups.

1812
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:21,400
Speaker 5: Discovered the largest discovery of copper in ten years from

1813
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 5: computers in Berkeley, and then they showed up in Zambia,

1814
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:32,280
Speaker 5: Oh God, to start extracting the copper. So, you know,

1815
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:37,360
Speaker 5: the network state opens up these countries to like this

1816
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:44,640
Speaker 5: new era of like exploited labor, mineral harvesting, medical experiments,

1817
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 5: and the network state gives them a way to get

1818
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:51,400
Speaker 5: into a country and start exploiting the fuck out of it.

1819
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's corporate colonization.

1820
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:54,839
Speaker 8: Yeah, period.

1821
01:47:55,280 --> 01:47:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's a bunch of these people going like, oh,

1822
01:47:57,439 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 1: the problem with the East India company was that they

1823
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:03,120
Speaker 1: actually had to like run the country, which is really expensive.

1824
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:05,559
Speaker 1: So what if instead of that, we just took over

1825
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 1: like the nodes that we wanted to use and then

1826
01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:10,880
Speaker 1: use that to push everything sort of further instead of

1827
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 1: like building a giant army and marching through India one.

1828
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 5: Hundred percent and you know, the labor exploitation that is

1829
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 5: like developing some of this stuff that we're starting to

1830
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:28,360
Speaker 5: see where like you know, Venture Capital has a very

1831
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:32,120
Speaker 5: close relationship with bou kell and al Salvador. Yeah, bou

1832
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:35,600
Speaker 5: Kelly is sitting on a prison full of people that

1833
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 5: haven't had due process and he's now using them for

1834
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 5: free labor.

1835
01:48:42,280 --> 01:48:43,320
Speaker 8: Slave labor.

1836
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:46,320
Speaker 1: This is the Seacot person that you might remember, like

1837
01:48:46,320 --> 01:48:49,360
Speaker 1: Trump had been deporting people here, and this place is

1838
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:54,920
Speaker 1: just unbelievably hideous abuses. Yeah, it's an entire facility that

1839
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:59,440
Speaker 1: is just dedicated to inflicting violence and suffering and humiliation

1840
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:03,759
Speaker 1: on these people who have no trials, have no access

1841
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:07,680
Speaker 1: to rights through legal system, and it's just this like

1842
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 1: nightmare black hole.

1843
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:24,320
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, there's always lots of factors involved when

1844
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:27,200
Speaker 5: I talk about stuff like I'm talking about the venture

1845
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 5: capital aspect, and there are other players involved, but one

1846
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:36,240
Speaker 5: of the big things is like what happens when venture

1847
01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:41,719
Speaker 5: capital starts interacting with another country. Yeah, and what we

1848
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:47,560
Speaker 5: see in Latin America is that they make contact with Hunterists,

1849
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 5: they set up a colony, they start terrorizing the people

1850
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 5: on the island, They become material actors in installing an

1851
01:49:57,640 --> 01:50:01,800
Speaker 5: illegitimate president with Trump's.

1852
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:02,839
Speaker 8: Help, and then you know.

1853
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 5: They make contact with El Salvador and El Salvador becomes

1854
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:11,719
Speaker 5: quote unquote bitcoin country, and l Salvador becomes a prison

1855
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:15,840
Speaker 5: state and like a slave labor state in Argentina, same

1856
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,400
Speaker 5: things the venture capitalists back to Malay to the absolute

1857
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:25,679
Speaker 5: health Malay is now gutted to government, deregulated everything. He

1858
01:50:26,080 --> 01:50:30,719
Speaker 5: is putting these terrible labor abuse policies through.

1859
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:33,719
Speaker 8: So when when.

1860
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:37,479
Speaker 5: Venture capital contacts these countries, it is transforming them, is

1861
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:41,440
Speaker 5: changing them, it's changing their politicians, it's changing their policies,

1862
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:44,679
Speaker 5: it's changing their land, it's changing their financial system.

1863
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:47,800
Speaker 8: And that is really concerning.

1864
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:50,040
Speaker 5: And you know, one of the things about the venture

1865
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:53,320
Speaker 5: capital model, this goes back to even just the fact

1866
01:50:53,360 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 5: that like they have operated global IT systems, so they

1867
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:02,320
Speaker 5: have servers everywhere in the world, and all of the

1868
01:51:02,400 --> 01:51:05,800
Speaker 5: servers are exactly the same. And so when you look

1869
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 5: at what the network stata is going to look like,

1870
01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:08,400
Speaker 5: it's going.

1871
01:51:08,360 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 8: To be very similar.

1872
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:12,200
Speaker 5: It's going to be the same thing everywhere, and those

1873
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:14,719
Speaker 5: will be basically commanding control nodes.

1874
01:51:15,200 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems like they've done a very very

1875
01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 1: good job of kind of either subverting or like allying

1876
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:27,120
Speaker 1: with factions of the traditional sort of like right wing

1877
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 1: elite and then you know, propelling them to power and

1878
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 1: then using their power and influence and the fact that

1879
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 1: they were able to get these people into power in

1880
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:38,040
Speaker 1: the first place to sort of set up zones of

1881
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: extraction for them and increase their power inside of these states.

1882
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:42,960
Speaker 8: One thousand percent.

1883
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:45,799
Speaker 5: And you know, if you look at how much they've

1884
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:49,960
Speaker 5: been able to compromise the American government.

1885
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:52,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, and then these.

1886
01:51:52,439 --> 01:51:57,479
Speaker 5: Countries do not have the wealth, the infrastructure of that,

1887
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:01,479
Speaker 5: you know, anything like that, they're so vulnerable to this

1888
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:04,639
Speaker 5: type of attack. So if in order to get its

1889
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:09,880
Speaker 5: global projects done, venture capital needs to install favorable politicians

1890
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 5: all over the world. They're offering packages to all of

1891
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:19,839
Speaker 5: those politicians. They're offering the money, the social media attention

1892
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:23,760
Speaker 5: and platform that they can give them. They're giving them

1893
01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 5: an economic policy that they can go forward and say,

1894
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 5: we're going to turn this country into like a technology

1895
01:52:31,080 --> 01:52:33,840
Speaker 5: industry and we're going to bring all this foreign investment

1896
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:37,800
Speaker 5: blah blah blah. You know, they can really just like

1897
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:42,639
Speaker 5: hand pick politicians and pretty easily like set them up

1898
01:52:42,680 --> 01:52:47,400
Speaker 5: with a guaranteed win and over time, that's like a

1899
01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:49,440
Speaker 5: global tech fascist access.

1900
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:50,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1901
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:52,679
Speaker 1: And one of the things that we know about sort

1902
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:56,519
Speaker 1: of the way that fascist stay construction works is that

1903
01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:58,719
Speaker 1: if you're constructing, you've constructed a bunch of these nodes

1904
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 1: of the sort of this fascist network state. But fascist

1905
01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:05,160
Speaker 1: states always need to sort of create an enemy for themselves,

1906
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,040
Speaker 1: and the enemy has been China. So do you want

1907
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:12,040
Speaker 1: to talk about the way that they've been seeing Belton

1908
01:53:12,200 --> 01:53:16,679
Speaker 1: Road and how they've turned this into a civilizational conflict?

1909
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 8: One hundred percent? You know, if you listen to what

1910
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:24,320
Speaker 8: venture capitalists say about who.

1911
01:53:24,200 --> 01:53:29,080
Speaker 5: The enemy is, like, it is China. They talk literally

1912
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:34,280
Speaker 5: constantly about China. Almost all of their startups in every

1913
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 5: single sector talk about China all of the time, but

1914
01:53:38,040 --> 01:53:43,959
Speaker 5: particularly in the weapons part of that and the premise

1915
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:47,200
Speaker 5: of their military build out. What they say is that

1916
01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:51,679
Speaker 5: this is about China, and this is about fighting China, and.

1917
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:52,880
Speaker 8: This is very serious to them.

1918
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:56,600
Speaker 5: And the fundamental cause is like their technology competing with

1919
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:00,760
Speaker 5: China's technology, And actually venture capitalists would admit that China

1920
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:03,320
Speaker 5: has better technology than us and that they're ahead of us,

1921
01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 5: so this is a crisis for them.

1922
01:54:06,920 --> 01:54:08,600
Speaker 1: This is all, in some sets, very silly to me.

1923
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:10,920
Speaker 1: The girl the girl who saydies China a lot, because

1924
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:13,799
Speaker 1: it's like all the Tinese tech people you're competing against,

1925
01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 1: like believe like ninety five percent of the same shit

1926
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:18,920
Speaker 1: you do, All of you could simply work together and

1927
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:19,839
Speaker 1: make money forever.

1928
01:54:20,240 --> 01:54:22,599
Speaker 10: But instead you've decided to do this like.

1929
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:27,400
Speaker 1: Oh god, this like unhinged genocidal military build up because

1930
01:54:27,439 --> 01:54:29,720
Speaker 1: like you needed a great enemy in order to like

1931
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:34,120
Speaker 1: keep doing yourking fascist bullshit.

1932
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:38,200
Speaker 3: Oh god yeah.

1933
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 5: And like via absolute worst case scenario for the world

1934
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 5: would probably be like the top technocratic elite from China

1935
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:49,280
Speaker 5: and the top technocratic elite from the US deciding they

1936
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 5: were gonna work together and just fucking literally everyone else

1937
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:53,360
Speaker 5: in the world.

1938
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:56,560
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's like they were like on the road

1939
01:54:56,600 --> 01:54:57,320
Speaker 1: to doing that.

1940
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:59,720
Speaker 10: It was like like this is like China wto integration.

1941
01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:00,800
Speaker 10: This was a thing.

1942
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 1: This this was like a version of history they could

1943
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:05,800
Speaker 1: have had where it's like, yeah, congratulations, you've created like

1944
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 1: prominent technocratic rule, but like no, no, eat shit, we

1945
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:13,840
Speaker 1: want to fight each other for obscure and nebulous ideological

1946
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:17,080
Speaker 1: reasons is to generate the sort of fear necessary to

1947
01:55:17,120 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 1: do their projects. It's just like, oh.

1948
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 5: My god, yeah, one thousand percent.

1949
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:27,640
Speaker 8: It's very it's very strange.

1950
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:31,120
Speaker 5: But you know, like Palmer Lucky, who you know, and

1951
01:55:31,200 --> 01:55:34,000
Speaker 5: Palmer Lucky, like people make fun of a lot of

1952
01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:37,040
Speaker 5: the tech people for being dumb, and like Palmer Lucky

1953
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:41,080
Speaker 5: is absolutely not dumb, Like he is a very very

1954
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:45,440
Speaker 5: smart person and he's spending every single moment of every

1955
01:55:45,480 --> 01:55:48,520
Speaker 5: single day figuring out how to defeat China. And then

1956
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:52,040
Speaker 5: that's the case for his entire company. But this, this

1957
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:56,520
Speaker 5: is an issue for them. It's shapying sort of the dialectic.

1958
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,520
Speaker 5: And so within this the net where is the network

1959
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:05,000
Speaker 5: staying well? China's Belt and Road initiative is creating infrastructure

1960
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:09,440
Speaker 5: projects and nation state alliances across Latin America and across

1961
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:14,040
Speaker 5: Africa for China, and you see the network state really

1962
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:19,320
Speaker 5: investing in Latin America and Africas. While so certainly, one

1963
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 5: way to conceptualize this is as the network state is

1964
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 5: a counter to Belt and Road and it is part

1965
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:33,360
Speaker 5: of their cold war with China which is playing out

1966
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 5: across all of these regions.

1967
01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's another thing where it's just like I have

1968
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:42,879
Speaker 1: seen how how both of these groups treat the workers

1969
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:45,200
Speaker 1: in Africa that they're employing. Like both of you two

1970
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:49,240
Speaker 1: believe the same shit. You're both fucking racist doing colonialism,

1971
01:56:49,320 --> 01:56:52,560
Speaker 1: but like you've decided to drag the entire fucking world

1972
01:56:52,600 --> 01:56:57,120
Speaker 1: into your Like oh god, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna

1973
01:56:57,120 --> 01:56:59,640
Speaker 1: tell one China racism story here, because we've be getting

1974
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,760
Speaker 1: in a normal am out of American racism, like like

1975
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:05,080
Speaker 1: this is this is a country where like, like China's

1976
01:57:05,120 --> 01:57:07,240
Speaker 1: the country where like you get soapbads, where like you

1977
01:57:07,360 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 1: have a black person and they like rub their skin

1978
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:12,800
Speaker 1: with soap and they like turn white. This is like

1979
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:14,680
Speaker 1: the kind of racism you're dealing with. One of the

1980
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 1: big ecological moments in China was there's a documentary called

1981
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 1: Under the Dome. So we're gonna get a little bit

1982
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 1: far field here, but this I think matters a lot

1983
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:25,280
Speaker 1: in terms of why this is happening. The CCP allowed

1984
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:28,480
Speaker 1: this woman who'd been a state broadcaster like a television

1985
01:57:28,480 --> 01:57:32,000
Speaker 1: personality like broadcaster for a long time. She had a kid,

1986
01:57:32,080 --> 01:57:33,800
Speaker 1: so she was taking time off. This is like the

1987
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:36,360
Speaker 1: early twenty tens, like the height of like air pollution

1988
01:57:36,440 --> 01:57:39,600
Speaker 1: in China, and she does this like giant documentary about

1989
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:41,720
Speaker 1: air pollution. It's allowed to stay on the Internet for

1990
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:44,120
Speaker 1: like a couple of days before it's taken down. And

1991
01:57:44,280 --> 01:57:46,720
Speaker 1: one of the big points of this is that part

1992
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 1: of the reason that pollution is so bad is that

1993
01:57:48,600 --> 01:57:50,440
Speaker 1: there are all of these cars in China that don't

1994
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:53,040
Speaker 1: meet Chinese emission standards for being sold to the Chinese market,

1995
01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:55,480
Speaker 1: And the reason they're producing these cars is that they

1996
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:59,160
Speaker 1: specifically have an entire class of cars that are like way,

1997
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:03,080
Speaker 1: way way more pollutant and shittier that they specifically designed

1998
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 1: to sell to Africa. Like it's like that kind of

1999
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 1: like structure of racism, right, and it's like, you know,

2000
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 1: it's just like the sort of horror show of like

2001
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:14,720
Speaker 1: watching these two just like different versions of this sort

2002
01:58:14,760 --> 01:58:18,520
Speaker 1: of like nightmare colonialism entity where you know, like China

2003
01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:21,240
Speaker 1: is trying to find a way to reproduce its own

2004
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:24,040
Speaker 1: capital as its growth rate like slows, and the networks

2005
01:58:24,040 --> 01:58:25,800
Speaker 1: that people, you know, I have also had this project

2006
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:27,840
Speaker 1: of like we want to sort of install our own

2007
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 1: version of fascism here, and they're just sort of like

2008
01:58:30,440 --> 01:58:33,560
Speaker 1: building these like parallel networks against each other just like

2009
01:58:35,040 --> 01:58:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, it makes me so miserable that so

2010
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:41,440
Speaker 1: many people are getting fucked by just like the global

2011
01:58:41,480 --> 01:58:44,800
Speaker 1: capital of superpowers and the way that like venture capital

2012
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 1: money has become a political force that can do their

2013
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:52,400
Speaker 1: own unbelievably like probably more hideously fucked versions of what

2014
01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:54,400
Speaker 1: Chinese capital has been able to do.

2015
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you know, at the end of the day,

2016
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:00,800
Speaker 5: that's where where we need to come back to, is

2017
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 5: like this is about capitalism, Like this is about colonialism,

2018
01:59:04,760 --> 01:59:08,360
Speaker 5: it's about like imperialism, and like, yeah, we fight this

2019
01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:13,840
Speaker 5: at that level, at the level of structural analysis, of

2020
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:19,600
Speaker 5: historical analysis, of like full analysis, of unflinching analysis, and

2021
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:23,720
Speaker 5: that that is the only way to get out of

2022
01:59:23,800 --> 01:59:26,000
Speaker 5: this situation that we're in.

2023
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, is to understand what is actually happening at a

2024
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 1: structural level and understand the actual forces that are operating

2025
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:39,440
Speaker 1: instead of the big, flashy name people who the spotlight

2026
01:59:39,480 --> 01:59:39,880
Speaker 1: has been on.

2027
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:43,960
Speaker 5: Yeah. That is one of the few things that makes

2028
01:59:44,000 --> 01:59:47,280
Speaker 5: me excited about venture capital because like, here is a

2029
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:54,080
Speaker 5: lens where we can actually see capitalism in a live

2030
01:59:54,480 --> 02:00:00,800
Speaker 5: movie and active, dynamic, destructive, very much visible. You can

2031
02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:03,960
Speaker 5: see this, you can see it happening, and that is

2032
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:17,800
Speaker 5: like such an opportunity to wrap up the network state stuff. So,

2033
02:00:18,600 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 5: you know, a lot a lot is sort of said

2034
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:25,200
Speaker 5: about this being their own state, which it absolutely is.

2035
02:00:25,480 --> 02:00:28,760
Speaker 5: It leads to that, but once you add up these

2036
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:33,640
Speaker 5: pieces of them having land and them having cities, and

2037
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:38,000
Speaker 5: then they're racism. So they think that they're better than everyone,

2038
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:42,360
Speaker 5: and they're like misogyny and like their wealth and them

2039
02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 5: being sort of in their own kind of category which

2040
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:52,000
Speaker 5: also has all of the different sort of pieces of civilization.

2041
02:00:52,200 --> 02:00:56,480
Speaker 5: Like out of that they derive both an identity and

2042
02:00:56,640 --> 02:01:01,800
Speaker 5: like a drive for civilization building. And so one thing

2043
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:06,400
Speaker 5: that people talk about a lot is eugenics, and like

2044
02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:10,240
Speaker 5: eugenics beliefs sort of in the tech class, but we

2045
02:01:10,360 --> 02:01:15,120
Speaker 5: are so far beyond that and into an actual eugenics

2046
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:19,920
Speaker 5: project where venture capitalists are encouraging the tech class to

2047
02:01:20,040 --> 02:01:24,000
Speaker 5: create more and more babies. They are creating a dizzying

2048
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:33,120
Speaker 5: number of fertility startups, IVF, genetic screening, you know, engineering

2049
02:01:33,920 --> 02:01:38,080
Speaker 5: of the genome, like all of these different areas. And

2050
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:42,560
Speaker 5: they see Israel as the example of that because the

2051
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:48,560
Speaker 5: Israeli fertility rate is really high despite it being a technocratic.

2052
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:51,520
Speaker 8: This is there where it's not mine. Yeah, yeah, just

2053
02:01:51,600 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 8: to be clear, this is what they say.

2054
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:57,120
Speaker 5: They say Israel is aspirational because it's the technocratic state

2055
02:01:57,160 --> 02:01:59,520
Speaker 5: where they have a really high birth rate, and that

2056
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:02,120
Speaker 5: that is what they want to emulate, you know, through

2057
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:06,840
Speaker 5: the network state, and they want to you know, selectively

2058
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:10,240
Speaker 5: breed and they want to use these technologies to breed

2059
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 5: and hyperbreed. And one of the tech philosophers that should

2060
02:02:15,280 --> 02:02:18,560
Speaker 5: actually get way more intention than Curtis Yarvin but doesn't

2061
02:02:18,920 --> 02:02:19,839
Speaker 5: is Nick Land.

2062
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:21,360
Speaker 8: And nick Land.

2063
02:02:21,120 --> 02:02:25,640
Speaker 5: Basically yeah, but nick Land's one of his main thing

2064
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:31,080
Speaker 5: is that a small elite will use eugenics technology to

2065
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:35,880
Speaker 5: rapidly outpace the rest of the world to such an

2066
02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:42,040
Speaker 5: extent that it creates basically like a new species in

2067
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:46,040
Speaker 5: that sense, I see, you know, ideology being something that

2068
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:50,640
Speaker 5: emerges out of all of this other things that they're doing.

2069
02:02:51,200 --> 02:02:53,120
Speaker 8: They do all of this crazy shit.

2070
02:02:53,160 --> 02:02:55,680
Speaker 5: They have all this economic stuff going on, you know,

2071
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:58,400
Speaker 5: they have all this medical stuff going on, and then

2072
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:01,680
Speaker 5: what comes out of that is this is our civilization.

2073
02:03:02,400 --> 02:03:06,080
Speaker 5: We are going to breed to populate this civilization, and

2074
02:03:06,120 --> 02:03:10,480
Speaker 5: we are going to surpass the rest of humanity which

2075
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 5: we lolls and which we see as lab rats and

2076
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:17,440
Speaker 5: guinea pigs and vermin and scum.

2077
02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's the situation where like, like this is

2078
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:24,520
Speaker 1: like a thing that a lot of the worst right

2079
02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:28,360
Speaker 1: wingers have believed for a long time. But these people

2080
02:03:28,480 --> 02:03:31,800
Speaker 1: control vast sections of the global economy, and because they

2081
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:36,120
Speaker 1: do that, whatever, like unhinged like racist eugenic breeding project

2082
02:03:36,120 --> 02:03:37,640
Speaker 1: thing they want to do, they could just do it

2083
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:41,000
Speaker 1: because they have the capital to like actually create these things.

2084
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:43,000
Speaker 1: It's like, well, like obviously they're not going to be

2085
02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:46,000
Speaker 1: able to successfully like create a super race or whatever,

2086
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:50,000
Speaker 1: because like that's just digenics doesn't work, right, Like but

2087
02:03:50,080 --> 02:03:52,200
Speaker 1: like it's you know, but like it doesn't matter. They

2088
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:54,520
Speaker 1: have achieved a level of power and a level of capital.

2089
02:03:55,000 --> 02:03:58,880
Speaker 1: Where like the actual quote behind the reality based community thing,

2090
02:03:59,640 --> 02:04:01,840
Speaker 1: where for the Push administration, we're like the thing that

2091
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:03,840
Speaker 1: got into like the media was like calling their roles

2092
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 1: the reality based community. The actual quote is about how

2093
02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:10,160
Speaker 1: liberals observe reality and conservatives create it, and so they're

2094
02:04:10,200 --> 02:04:14,879
Speaker 1: trying to sort of just hammer reality into their preferred

2095
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:20,880
Speaker 1: shape through this combination of wealth and violence. And because

2096
02:04:20,920 --> 02:04:23,840
Speaker 1: of that, yeah, they can just fucking do this, all

2097
02:04:23,880 --> 02:04:26,320
Speaker 1: of this like eugenic shit that people just talk about.

2098
02:04:26,360 --> 02:04:28,280
Speaker 3: They can just attempt to do it.

2099
02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:30,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know.

2100
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:38,480
Speaker 5: It's they're telling their workers to have more children. They're

2101
02:04:38,560 --> 02:04:43,040
Speaker 5: doing their own school programs, elite schools for these kids.

2102
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:46,680
Speaker 5: They've talked about having their children being able to work

2103
02:04:46,720 --> 02:04:48,120
Speaker 5: at a startup by the age of.

2104
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:49,800
Speaker 8: Fifteen Jesus Christ.

2105
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:55,080
Speaker 5: Ah, Yeah, it's really wild. This is very much a reality.

2106
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:58,800
Speaker 5: It's something that is allready happening now. And so one

2107
02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:01,480
Speaker 5: of the main messages that I have for peoples, like

2108
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:05,200
Speaker 5: they are so much more advanced in these projects than

2109
02:05:05,200 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 5: anyone has awareness of, Like things are way beyond the

2110
02:05:10,240 --> 02:05:16,840
Speaker 5: emergency moment, and we need global response, and we need

2111
02:05:16,880 --> 02:05:22,720
Speaker 5: global emergency response, and we need resistance. When venture capitalists

2112
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:26,160
Speaker 5: show up to these areas, the people there don't know

2113
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 5: what's hitting them.

2114
02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:27,760
Speaker 8: And that's even.

2115
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:30,800
Speaker 5: True in the US, where these venture capitalists came from,

2116
02:05:31,200 --> 02:05:34,560
Speaker 5: people did not know that they were about to take

2117
02:05:34,720 --> 02:05:38,640
Speaker 5: the presidency. In other countries, they definitely don't know. We

2118
02:05:38,680 --> 02:05:42,640
Speaker 5: need global defense from this. Everywhere they fucking go. They

2119
02:05:42,680 --> 02:05:45,960
Speaker 5: should be met not only by people there who have

2120
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:49,440
Speaker 5: been told and have the access to the information, but

2121
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:52,560
Speaker 5: also to a global coalition that's ready to stand by.

2122
02:05:52,760 --> 02:05:55,839
Speaker 5: These are invasions of countries, These are invasions of sovereign

2123
02:05:55,880 --> 02:05:58,920
Speaker 5: nations and of communities, and that's what we need to

2124
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:03,080
Speaker 5: fight back. And I think my research and other researchers

2125
02:06:03,080 --> 02:06:06,800
Speaker 5: and what's on vcmfhodox like leads to that conclusion of

2126
02:06:06,840 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 5: like that is how we're going to have to fight this.

2127
02:06:10,360 --> 02:06:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's something that right now feels unimaginable.

2128
02:06:15,800 --> 02:06:20,880
Speaker 1: But also unless you are really really young, you have

2129
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:24,080
Speaker 1: lived in a period where something like that existed, you know,

2130
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 1: to a large extent. This is what the global justice

2131
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:28,680
Speaker 1: movement was. There's a bunch of different names, but like

2132
02:06:28,720 --> 02:06:32,080
Speaker 1: the original anti globalization movements, like the one that was

2133
02:06:32,080 --> 02:06:34,200
Speaker 1: born out of the nineties, the one that was born

2134
02:06:34,200 --> 02:06:38,320
Speaker 1: out of the Zapatista's rebellion against NAFTA, Like the Zapatista

2135
02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:42,360
Speaker 1: is brought together hundreds and hundreds of groups from all

2136
02:06:42,360 --> 02:06:44,840
Speaker 1: over the world, like to these giant convergencies, and they

2137
02:06:44,880 --> 02:06:48,680
Speaker 1: planned like an international strategy to presist these sort of

2138
02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 1: these like free trade proposals. And you know, were they

2139
02:06:53,320 --> 02:06:57,400
Speaker 1: able to like defeat capitalism and like retake the globe. No,

2140
02:06:57,480 --> 02:07:00,280
Speaker 1: but they were successful in killing basically all new free

2141
02:07:00,280 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 1: trade agreements like in the period after. And this is

2142
02:07:03,040 --> 02:07:05,040
Speaker 1: where you get like the Battle of Seattle and like

2143
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:08,680
Speaker 1: the whole Giant, like all the protests at all of

2144
02:07:08,720 --> 02:07:12,000
Speaker 1: the summits, and like Genoa, and this is the process

2145
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:15,400
Speaker 1: that built the modern left right, like the modern American

2146
02:07:15,480 --> 02:07:18,040
Speaker 1: left comes out of occupy, which is a bunch of

2147
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:21,720
Speaker 1: the veterans of that movement by doing this. Yeah, and

2148
02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:25,600
Speaker 1: like you all, like everyone listening to this, unless you

2149
02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:28,640
Speaker 1: were born in like the twenty tens, have lived in

2150
02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 1: a world where people did this.

2151
02:07:30,160 --> 02:07:31,920
Speaker 3: It's kind of a parallel movement.

2152
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:35,160
Speaker 1: But one of the things that happens in this period

2153
02:07:35,240 --> 02:07:39,200
Speaker 1: in your lifetimes almost certainly, is that a bunch of

2154
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 1: people like took the city of Wahaka in like two

2155
02:07:42,440 --> 02:07:47,080
Speaker 1: thousand and six, we have taken major North American cities

2156
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:50,640
Speaker 1: from them in your lifetime. We can do this. We

2157
02:07:50,800 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 1: just have to be willing to work together and fight.

2158
02:07:53,520 --> 02:07:56,680
Speaker 5: Yes, one hundred percent. And as much as I like

2159
02:07:57,000 --> 02:07:59,600
Speaker 5: live in this issue and look at this, and I'm like,

2160
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 5: what the fuck are we gonna do?

2161
02:08:01,120 --> 02:08:02,200
Speaker 8: Like it's over, it's over.

2162
02:08:02,360 --> 02:08:07,080
Speaker 5: Like I also am like, this is a chance because

2163
02:08:07,320 --> 02:08:10,120
Speaker 5: what's having a mentor capital It's one of the fastest

2164
02:08:10,160 --> 02:08:13,440
Speaker 5: moving parts of capitalism, one of the most dynamic, one

2165
02:08:13,480 --> 02:08:16,080
Speaker 5: of the most powerful, one of them that has the

2166
02:08:16,280 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 5: most infrastructure. Like, yeah, what if we got all the

2167
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:23,800
Speaker 5: computers back? Yeah, what if we could use the computers

2168
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:26,200
Speaker 5: for you know, this is a chance. And I think

2169
02:08:26,320 --> 02:08:30,960
Speaker 5: there's a possibility, and I hope to build a global

2170
02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:34,280
Speaker 5: resistance around this. And that's why I'm here, and that's

2171
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:37,200
Speaker 5: why I stay in this because this fucking sucks and

2172
02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:41,240
Speaker 5: there's not a lot of community support. It's isolating, da

2173
02:08:41,320 --> 02:08:44,240
Speaker 5: da da. But I think this is I think this

2174
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:47,080
Speaker 5: is a fight we can win if we're all willing

2175
02:08:47,200 --> 02:08:50,360
Speaker 5: to get on board about what is happening and do

2176
02:08:50,560 --> 02:08:54,320
Speaker 5: the work of building that. So I am I'm excited

2177
02:08:54,360 --> 02:08:56,120
Speaker 5: for that. I think I think it can happen.

2178
02:08:56,320 --> 02:09:00,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, And I think this is something that it's

2179
02:09:00,160 --> 02:09:02,520
Speaker 1: really really easy to look into the world and despair,

2180
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:04,280
Speaker 1: and I think one of the things that helps with

2181
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:08,520
Speaker 1: that is remembering that people have faced odds that were

2182
02:09:08,760 --> 02:09:12,120
Speaker 1: so much worse than this, right, Like if you look

2183
02:09:12,120 --> 02:09:15,120
Speaker 1: at like the origin of Pan Africanism, right, and like

2184
02:09:15,160 --> 02:09:17,600
Speaker 1: you look at like C. L. R. James and a

2185
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:20,760
Speaker 1: bunch of like his friends are like meeting in these

2186
02:09:20,880 --> 02:09:24,880
Speaker 1: rooms in like London, and you know, they're looking out

2187
02:09:24,880 --> 02:09:30,959
Speaker 1: at it across entire continents that are colonized and fifteen

2188
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:33,760
Speaker 1: to twenty years later, literally like the people who are

2189
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:37,080
Speaker 1: his friends who are there have liberated Africa, right, Like

2190
02:09:37,120 --> 02:09:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about like this this what looked

2191
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:41,720
Speaker 1: like a just a group of just like random people

2192
02:09:41,760 --> 02:09:45,480
Speaker 1: facing within a completely impossible project of defeating colonialism. Suddenly

2193
02:09:45,960 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 1: you know again, like twenty years later, it's like Julius

2194
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:53,520
Speaker 1: de Reira is like running Tanzania, right, And the odds

2195
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:57,720
Speaker 1: that they faced are so much longer than the odds

2196
02:09:57,760 --> 02:10:02,320
Speaker 1: that we faced, and were they able to create exactly

2197
02:10:02,320 --> 02:10:04,560
Speaker 1: the world that they wanted to know. But the world

2198
02:10:04,760 --> 02:10:11,920
Speaker 1: that they left after them was one where entire continents

2199
02:10:12,320 --> 02:10:16,640
Speaker 1: were no longer It's literally directly ruled by colonizers. Yes,

2200
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:20,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, like that is probably the kind of response

2201
02:10:20,400 --> 02:10:24,040
Speaker 1: that this requires, but I don't know, people have done

2202
02:10:24,080 --> 02:10:25,560
Speaker 1: it before, and it can be done again.

2203
02:10:26,560 --> 02:10:29,320
Speaker 5: It can be done again, and you know, if you

2204
02:10:30,280 --> 02:10:35,320
Speaker 5: people who are interested in that reach out and like,

2205
02:10:35,480 --> 02:10:38,440
Speaker 5: let's get a movie in because this is like, this

2206
02:10:38,520 --> 02:10:41,600
Speaker 5: is a chance, This is a chance, and we need

2207
02:10:41,640 --> 02:10:45,760
Speaker 5: to take it because if we just let this go

2208
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:49,520
Speaker 5: and like, today is our best chance of stopping it.

2209
02:10:49,880 --> 02:10:51,760
Speaker 8: You know, today is our best chance.

2210
02:10:51,760 --> 02:10:55,480
Speaker 5: So if we can hop on this and be professional

2211
02:10:55,640 --> 02:11:00,480
Speaker 5: in the sense of like being a professional resist in

2212
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:06,720
Speaker 5: anti colonialists and anti fascists and take this as not

2213
02:11:06,920 --> 02:11:10,360
Speaker 5: just an ideological thing, but this is a tactical situation.

2214
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:13,960
Speaker 5: We need to be figuring out strategies and tactics to

2215
02:11:14,040 --> 02:11:14,840
Speaker 5: take this down.

2216
02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2217
02:11:16,160 --> 02:11:19,440
Speaker 1: And I think on that note, where can people go

2218
02:11:19,560 --> 02:11:22,720
Speaker 1: to find your work and find more information about this

2219
02:11:23,120 --> 02:11:24,480
Speaker 1: and start this process?

2220
02:11:24,840 --> 02:11:25,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

2221
02:11:25,160 --> 02:11:25,760
Speaker 8: Absolutely.

2222
02:11:26,240 --> 02:11:32,280
Speaker 5: Vcinfodox is at www dot vcinfodox dot com. There's a

2223
02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:36,200
Speaker 5: contact email address on that page. Would love to hear

2224
02:11:36,880 --> 02:11:42,000
Speaker 5: from you. We give presentations also, or happy to just

2225
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:47,160
Speaker 5: talk to any other organizers. And I am on social media.

2226
02:11:47,240 --> 02:11:49,880
Speaker 5: I'm a Blue Sky and Twitter and I have a

2227
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:51,360
Speaker 5: blog at.

2228
02:11:51,080 --> 02:11:53,640
Speaker 8: Shanlee dot com, so any.

2229
02:11:53,440 --> 02:11:56,760
Speaker 5: Of those, but definitely want to hear from people who

2230
02:11:56,840 --> 02:12:00,720
Speaker 5: are serious about building a movement around this. And thank

2231
02:12:00,760 --> 02:12:02,880
Speaker 5: you so much. Thank you so much for having me,

2232
02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:04,920
Speaker 5: Thank you for being my first podcast.

2233
02:12:08,120 --> 02:12:09,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for doing this.

2234
02:12:09,280 --> 02:12:12,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I hope we can help contribute

2235
02:12:12,960 --> 02:12:16,920
Speaker 1: to the start of something that changes the state of things.

2236
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:36,640
Speaker 2: Welcome to Executive Dysphonia, a podcast about people who are

2237
02:12:36,840 --> 02:12:40,520
Speaker 2: in executive positions but can't hear well. Right, isn't that

2238
02:12:40,560 --> 02:12:41,760
Speaker 2: what the show we're doing is?

2239
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:44,680
Speaker 4: This is it could happen here? Executive disorder.

2240
02:12:44,760 --> 02:12:47,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I guess I have Executive Dysphonia.

2241
02:12:47,240 --> 02:12:50,560
Speaker 4: Our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House,

2242
02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:53,000
Speaker 4: the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm

2243
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:56,920
Speaker 4: Garrison Davis. That was Robert Evans, also joined by James Stout,

2244
02:12:56,960 --> 02:13:00,360
Speaker 4: with a segment later on by Mia Wong said, we

2245
02:13:00,400 --> 02:13:05,000
Speaker 4: are covering the week of March eleventh to March eighteenth.

2246
02:13:04,200 --> 02:13:07,000
Speaker 2: And I was wrong about dysphonia. That's just horseness.

2247
02:13:07,040 --> 02:13:09,800
Speaker 3: Okay, well, yeah, they probably are people in the executive

2248
02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 3: branch who a horse.

2249
02:13:11,200 --> 02:13:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, horse and wearing shoes too big for their feet.

2250
02:13:14,440 --> 02:13:19,080
Speaker 4: We have to start by issuing an apology, that's right,

2251
02:13:19,200 --> 02:13:23,760
Speaker 4: a serious apology. We have both failed you, the audience

2252
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:29,040
Speaker 4: and ourselves as an outlet by neglecting to cover a

2253
02:13:29,080 --> 02:13:32,360
Speaker 4: story the way that it deserves to. Last week we

2254
02:13:32,440 --> 02:13:38,160
Speaker 4: reported on the buffalo wild wings Espresso Proteini, that's right,

2255
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:42,880
Speaker 4: and promised an in depth report on the drink upon

2256
02:13:43,080 --> 02:13:47,040
Speaker 4: delivery this past weekend, which was National E Spresso Martini Day.

2257
02:13:47,880 --> 02:13:53,600
Speaker 4: And there I was Sunday, March fifteenth, on my phone

2258
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:58,000
Speaker 4: googling to find the closest buffalo wild wings when I

2259
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:01,520
Speaker 4: discovered that these us at Bertini was in fact, only

2260
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:09,560
Speaker 4: to be served in five cities. Yeah, in Tennessee, Illinois, Georgia, Texas,

2261
02:14:09,720 --> 02:14:14,160
Speaker 4: and the Sea World location in Orlando, Florida. And I

2262
02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:18,000
Speaker 4: failed myself and you by not traveling specifically to the

2263
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:21,040
Speaker 4: Sea World location to try the Espresso Proteini, which would

2264
02:14:21,040 --> 02:14:22,760
Speaker 4: have been the correct choice.

2265
02:14:22,480 --> 02:14:24,200
Speaker 2: That would have been the right move to.

2266
02:14:24,240 --> 02:14:28,000
Speaker 4: Deliver the sort of coverage that you expect out of

2267
02:14:28,080 --> 02:14:31,120
Speaker 4: us and deserve. It's going to take a while to

2268
02:14:31,160 --> 02:14:33,040
Speaker 4: win your trust back, and we understand this, and we

2269
02:14:33,400 --> 02:14:35,880
Speaker 4: are hoping to be able to demonstrate that to you

2270
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:37,720
Speaker 4: in the coming in the coming weeks.

2271
02:14:38,240 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 2: Gary, this isn't all your fault, you know, I knew

2272
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:45,040
Speaker 2: years ago that we should have moved the entire production

2273
02:14:45,160 --> 02:14:48,400
Speaker 2: team to the Buffalo Wild Wings at SeaWorld. This was

2274
02:14:48,440 --> 02:14:51,760
Speaker 2: a foreseeable mistake, you know. Sophie and I are to

2275
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:54,160
Speaker 2: blame for this as well, is all I'm saying. And

2276
02:14:54,200 --> 02:14:55,520
Speaker 2: we apologize then.

2277
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:59,080
Speaker 3: Obviously, as a British person, the Sea World location in Orlando,

2278
02:14:59,120 --> 02:15:03,080
Speaker 3: Florida is house spiritual home, so that really should have

2279
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:04,480
Speaker 3: been at the very center of my be.

2280
02:15:05,240 --> 02:15:07,840
Speaker 2: Just imagine how much more sunburnt you could be every

2281
02:15:07,880 --> 02:15:10,240
Speaker 2: single day we record this podcast, James.

2282
02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:12,160
Speaker 3: You could be I'm wearing a red shirt right now

2283
02:15:12,160 --> 02:15:14,920
Speaker 3: for this. You could probably never tell if I lived

2284
02:15:14,920 --> 02:15:17,120
Speaker 3: in Orlando, Florida, if I was wearing a red shirt

2285
02:15:17,160 --> 02:15:20,480
Speaker 3: or just had extensive sunburns. Yeah.

2286
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:26,280
Speaker 4: So yeah, let's go for some small news items. Meta

2287
02:15:26,400 --> 02:15:30,000
Speaker 4: is shutting down. It's VR Metaverse Worlds.

2288
02:15:30,040 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 2: On June fifteenth, it stuck being named Metahu.

2289
02:15:36,840 --> 02:15:40,640
Speaker 4: It's the Horizon. Worlds continued to exist as a mobile

2290
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:45,920
Speaker 4: phone only application. The metaverse portion is going to be sunseted.

2291
02:15:46,320 --> 02:15:48,400
Speaker 4: Like I said on the fifteenth of June.

2292
02:15:48,920 --> 02:15:51,320
Speaker 3: I'll be on there in June fourteenth, throat up till midnight.

2293
02:15:51,480 --> 02:15:55,320
Speaker 3: Just it's enjoying my final moments of beauty. Is there

2294
02:15:55,320 --> 02:15:58,400
Speaker 3: a SeaWorld Orlando that I can visit in the Metaverse?

2295
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 3: I bet there was too soon, James, too soon.

2296
02:16:03,480 --> 02:16:06,560
Speaker 4: In the United District of Illinois, Evanston mayor Daniel Biss

2297
02:16:06,800 --> 02:16:11,280
Speaker 4: beat Kat Abagazzali and Laura Fine this one over thirty

2298
02:16:11,320 --> 02:16:15,080
Speaker 4: five thousand votes. Kat won over thirty one thousand votes

2299
02:16:15,080 --> 02:16:18,360
Speaker 4: and find the Apac back to candidate to got twenty

2300
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:19,360
Speaker 4: four thousand.

2301
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it.

2302
02:16:21,960 --> 02:16:25,280
Speaker 2: It was a really impressive first campaign from Kat who's

2303
02:16:25,280 --> 02:16:28,160
Speaker 2: a friend of the show. We're proud of her and

2304
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:32,879
Speaker 2: her whole team. And yeah that's politics. Baby, onto the

2305
02:16:32,920 --> 02:16:34,320
Speaker 2: next thing, I guess.

2306
02:16:35,400 --> 02:16:39,640
Speaker 4: Columbia student Lka Cordella was released from ice custody after

2307
02:16:39,800 --> 02:16:43,840
Speaker 4: over a year in detention after government lawyers declined to

2308
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:48,720
Speaker 4: appeal a judge's third release order. Her name was one

2309
02:16:48,760 --> 02:16:51,440
Speaker 4: of the four on the list that Marmon Donnie gave

2310
02:16:51,560 --> 02:16:53,279
Speaker 4: to Trump during their last meeting.

2311
02:16:54,160 --> 02:16:58,400
Speaker 3: Cuba is facing another blackout makes its aging infrastructure in

2312
02:16:58,400 --> 02:17:01,400
Speaker 3: a United States enforced BLOCKERID on the country. It has

2313
02:17:01,440 --> 02:17:06,280
Speaker 3: been running largely on thermoelectric, solar, and natural gas sources

2314
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:10,520
Speaker 3: of electricity as imports from Venezuela have ceased. The United

2315
02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:14,760
Speaker 3: States has threatened to tariff anybody sending oil to Cuba,

2316
02:17:14,800 --> 02:17:18,440
Speaker 3: but on Sunday, Claudio Scheinenbaum, president of Mexico, did say

2317
02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:21,600
Speaker 3: that Mexico would continue to send aid to the Caribbean nation.

2318
02:17:22,040 --> 02:17:24,880
Speaker 3: Also checking in on the Shield of the Americas, which

2319
02:17:24,879 --> 02:17:28,520
Speaker 3: we mentioned last week, Gustavo Petro, president of Columbia, has

2320
02:17:28,520 --> 02:17:31,800
Speaker 3: responded to what appears to be an Ecuadorian bomb falling

2321
02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:35,280
Speaker 3: on Colombia. So we are a couple of weeks into

2322
02:17:35,280 --> 02:17:39,640
Speaker 3: this and Ecuador's already bombed the wrong country. Oh good,

2323
02:17:40,400 --> 02:17:42,280
Speaker 3: not great. It was in an area very close to

2324
02:17:42,320 --> 02:17:45,800
Speaker 3: the border. But Petro posted today on egg dot com,

2325
02:17:45,800 --> 02:17:49,080
Speaker 3: the everything website, I'm blighted by the fact that groc

2326
02:17:49,160 --> 02:17:51,520
Speaker 3: thinks it can speak Spanish better than meat. So I'm

2327
02:17:51,560 --> 02:17:54,240
Speaker 3: just going to read whatever this shitty translation is. I

2328
02:17:54,280 --> 02:17:56,920
Speaker 3: suppose it has been confirmed that the bomb in Colombian

2329
02:17:57,000 --> 02:18:01,080
Speaker 3: territory belongs to the Ecuadorian Army. The investigat continues and

2330
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:04,560
Speaker 3: a diplomatic protest note will be sent. So yeah, that's

2331
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:09,680
Speaker 3: Ecuador playing with fire there. Yeah. Finally, PBS is reporting

2332
02:18:09,680 --> 02:18:13,200
Speaker 3: today that an offer is on the table from the

2333
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:16,920
Speaker 3: White House to end the shutdown. I'm just going to

2334
02:18:17,080 --> 02:18:21,840
Speaker 3: read I guess the terms that have been offered by

2335
02:18:21,840 --> 02:18:24,959
Speaker 3: the White House. So the first one would be the

2336
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:28,840
Speaker 3: expansion in the use of body worn cameras by DHS

2337
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:34,200
Speaker 3: law enforcement, and they will increase congressional oversight by requiring

2338
02:18:34,280 --> 02:18:37,840
Speaker 3: retention of body worn camera footage. The next one, they

2339
02:18:37,879 --> 02:18:42,480
Speaker 3: would limit civil immigration enforcement at certain sensitive locations. They

2340
02:18:42,480 --> 02:18:46,480
Speaker 3: go on to say sensitive locations include places like hospitals

2341
02:18:46,560 --> 02:18:50,840
Speaker 3: and schools, which is current practice. There were other places

2342
02:18:50,840 --> 02:18:54,880
Speaker 3: that were considered sensitive locations previously not to be churches, right,

2343
02:18:55,480 --> 02:18:58,520
Speaker 3: But that's not a definitive list, and I don't does

2344
02:18:58,560 --> 02:19:00,560
Speaker 3: it mean they will return to the old sensitive his doctrine.

2345
02:19:00,560 --> 02:19:05,280
Speaker 3: It's a little unclear. Yeah, they talk again about increasing

2346
02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:10,439
Speaker 3: congressional oversight, particularly by creating mandatory review and compliance reporting

2347
02:19:10,440 --> 02:19:13,520
Speaker 3: from the Spectro General of the HS. They talk about

2348
02:19:13,640 --> 02:19:19,280
Speaker 3: visible officer identification and the administration would require officers to

2349
02:19:19,720 --> 02:19:23,480
Speaker 3: clearly verbalize their agency and identification upon request when engaging

2350
02:19:23,520 --> 02:19:27,280
Speaker 3: in official duties. And then finally they will adhere to

2351
02:19:27,600 --> 02:19:32,320
Speaker 3: existing practices of law and practice of not deporting US citizens.

2352
02:19:32,440 --> 02:19:34,039
Speaker 3: And then they go and say they only detain them

2353
02:19:34,040 --> 02:19:37,560
Speaker 3: of a crime has taken place. Some of these appear

2354
02:19:37,640 --> 02:19:39,800
Speaker 3: like concessions, but they kind of only matter in so

2355
02:19:39,920 --> 02:19:41,920
Speaker 3: much as you trust them. They've always got like even

2356
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:45,600
Speaker 3: the sensitive places has an exemption for like a terrorist threat,

2357
02:19:46,000 --> 02:19:50,480
Speaker 3: given that, for instance, it was suggested very shortly after

2358
02:19:50,480 --> 02:19:52,760
Speaker 3: Alex Pretty was killed that he was a terrorist attempting

2359
02:19:52,760 --> 02:19:57,000
Speaker 3: to kill officers, etc. Yeah, none of this matters, and

2360
02:19:57,320 --> 02:19:59,200
Speaker 3: like it's still going to be this is we are

2361
02:19:59,240 --> 02:20:03,879
Speaker 3: pleasing ourselves, right, Perhaps we should move on talking of DHS.

2362
02:20:04,640 --> 02:20:09,560
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Friend of the Podcast, Gregory Bovino.

2363
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:14,040
Speaker 2: Oh, Greg, Oh, Greg Gregy b.

2364
02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been a frequent, frequent cool Zone all across

2365
02:20:18,640 --> 02:20:19,720
Speaker 3: the cool Zone universe.

2366
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, friend of the Pod. But no, nothing gold can stay,

2367
02:20:23,920 --> 02:20:24,160
Speaker 2: you know.

2368
02:20:24,680 --> 02:20:28,680
Speaker 3: Nope, And sadly Greg cannot stay at his job.

2369
02:20:29,480 --> 02:20:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be fair. Even before Trump took office, he

2370
02:20:33,720 --> 02:20:35,880
Speaker 2: was talking about retiring in like two years, Like he's

2371
02:20:35,920 --> 02:20:38,200
Speaker 2: been talking about that for a while. So yeah, it's

2372
02:20:38,240 --> 02:20:40,880
Speaker 2: not this is not like super weird, but the timing

2373
02:20:40,920 --> 02:20:43,520
Speaker 2: of it is earlier than he'd previously talked about wanting

2374
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:46,800
Speaker 2: to do. And I think pretty undeniably connected to you know,

2375
02:20:48,040 --> 02:20:51,400
Speaker 2: him being made the sacrificial bond of the regime.

2376
02:20:52,040 --> 02:20:55,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the fact that he he for instance, said

2377
02:20:55,280 --> 02:20:58,800
Speaker 3: shortly after Alex Pretty was killed by CBP agents, Pretty

2378
02:20:58,879 --> 02:21:02,160
Speaker 3: was planning to quote ATTACA agents. We have seen no

2379
02:21:02,320 --> 02:21:03,800
Speaker 3: evidence that that is true.

2380
02:21:04,040 --> 02:21:04,240
Speaker 5: Right.

2381
02:21:05,120 --> 02:21:08,680
Speaker 3: He's currently the chief patrol agent of the El Centro sector. Previously,

2382
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:13,760
Speaker 3: he was CBP's commander at large of its interior enforcement operations.

2383
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:16,520
Speaker 3: That he was removed from that job in late January.

2384
02:21:17,200 --> 02:21:22,199
Speaker 3: He gave an exclusive interview to bright Bart News Bright

2385
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:24,160
Speaker 3: but I have a former Border Patrol agent who writes

2386
02:21:24,160 --> 02:21:27,360
Speaker 3: to him. So I'm guessink that's why saying quote, watching

2387
02:21:27,400 --> 02:21:29,600
Speaker 3: these agents out there giving it there all in some

2388
02:21:29,640 --> 02:21:32,280
Speaker 3: of the most dangerous of environments we have ever faced,

2389
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:38,039
Speaker 3: was humbling. Cool. He will be retiring just a few

2390
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:42,600
Speaker 3: days after his fifty sixth birthday. The agency's mandatory requirement

2391
02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:44,800
Speaker 3: ages fifty seven, and I've seen a lot of places

2392
02:21:44,840 --> 02:21:47,720
Speaker 3: citing that that applies to offices hired after the middle

2393
02:21:47,720 --> 02:21:50,000
Speaker 3: of two thousand and eight. Bavino was hired in nineteen

2394
02:21:50,080 --> 02:21:54,039
Speaker 3: ninety six, but at fifty five, with thirty years of service,

2395
02:21:54,680 --> 02:21:58,800
Speaker 3: he would be eligible for optional retirement under the FERS.

2396
02:21:59,400 --> 02:22:02,760
Speaker 3: He hasn't reached a minimum retirement age, so I think

2397
02:22:02,840 --> 02:22:06,520
Speaker 3: that would impact the amount of retirement he gets. Oh interesting, Oh.

2398
02:22:06,480 --> 02:22:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he usually does, unless they make a special

2399
02:22:09,480 --> 02:22:10,720
Speaker 2: exception for him or something.

2400
02:22:10,840 --> 02:22:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, because previously, right, like previously, Border patrol agents were

2401
02:22:15,040 --> 02:22:18,720
Speaker 3: essentially hired. It's like federal employees or civil servants. It

2402
02:22:18,760 --> 02:22:22,480
Speaker 3: was only after two thousand and eight that they're hiring,

2403
02:22:22,520 --> 02:22:25,840
Speaker 3: I guess came slightly more in line with people in

2404
02:22:25,879 --> 02:22:28,880
Speaker 3: the armed services, for instance, or police, and so like

2405
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:31,600
Speaker 3: under first you'd have to do the thirty years plus

2406
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:35,359
Speaker 3: reach the minimum retirement age, versus under the newer system

2407
02:22:35,920 --> 02:22:39,120
Speaker 3: when they have a mandatory retirement of fifty seven. I

2408
02:22:39,200 --> 02:22:42,440
Speaker 3: do feel like this, plus Gnome, plus the stuff that

2409
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:45,960
Speaker 3: you've mentioned up top Garrison, it suggests that the tides

2410
02:22:46,000 --> 02:22:50,360
Speaker 3: are perhaps turning. Plus this, we've seen Republican sheriffs in

2411
02:22:50,480 --> 02:22:55,160
Speaker 3: Florida opposing mass deportations this week, right, we've seen Republican

2412
02:22:55,240 --> 02:23:00,000
Speaker 3: congress people making public statements about this. We are probably

2413
02:23:00,240 --> 02:23:05,279
Speaker 3: really beginning to see the beginning of the end of

2414
02:23:05,320 --> 02:23:10,400
Speaker 3: the Right being in lockstep behind mass deportations. I don't

2415
02:23:10,400 --> 02:23:12,280
Speaker 3: think that means with it going to see the end

2416
02:23:12,400 --> 02:23:15,120
Speaker 3: of ice raids. I don't think that means we're going

2417
02:23:15,160 --> 02:23:19,480
Speaker 3: to see the end, no, of massive detention and of

2418
02:23:19,640 --> 02:23:25,279
Speaker 3: massive deportation. But it's clearly, as we are looking towards

2419
02:23:25,360 --> 02:23:28,920
Speaker 3: the midterms, something that some parts of the Republican Party

2420
02:23:29,000 --> 02:23:32,000
Speaker 3: want to distance themselves from. And there's movement on this,

2421
02:23:32,160 --> 02:23:35,520
Speaker 3: and it shows that these forces are fluid in can

2422
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:39,600
Speaker 3: actually be changed through taking like agency, like through through

2423
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:44,240
Speaker 3: through imparting yourself upon the world, like what's happened in

2424
02:23:44,480 --> 02:23:47,360
Speaker 3: Minneapolis for those for those weeks to to you know,

2425
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:52,400
Speaker 3: months showed that the world actually can be changed through

2426
02:23:52,840 --> 02:23:57,320
Speaker 3: through mass action. Yeah, like like Border Patrol and Ice

2427
02:23:57,720 --> 02:24:00,680
Speaker 3: went to Minneapolis to fight, and it seems like they

2428
02:24:00,680 --> 02:24:03,120
Speaker 3: came off worse, right, Like they were not able to

2429
02:24:03,160 --> 02:24:07,560
Speaker 3: subdue the city in a meaningful way and it has

2430
02:24:07,640 --> 02:24:11,320
Speaker 3: resulted in most of their leadership being removed. Yeah.

2431
02:24:11,360 --> 02:24:13,840
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about something

2432
02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:17,680
Speaker 2: that's happened this week that I kind of I felt

2433
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:21,120
Speaker 2: a deep sense of foreboding reading this article. It's going

2434
02:24:21,160 --> 02:24:23,400
Speaker 2: to sound like this is another piece of kind of

2435
02:24:24,360 --> 02:24:27,680
Speaker 2: Israel Palestine reporting, but it's really not. I mean, that's

2436
02:24:27,760 --> 02:24:30,600
Speaker 2: where this particular story is set. But we're we're talking

2437
02:24:30,640 --> 02:24:32,840
Speaker 2: about something that's going to be an increasing factor in

2438
02:24:32,879 --> 02:24:36,520
Speaker 2: the lives of everyone gathering news and everybody consuming it,

2439
02:24:36,600 --> 02:24:40,640
Speaker 2: which is poly market our gamble on everything happening in

2440
02:24:40,680 --> 02:24:43,680
Speaker 2: the world. App that apparently the world needed for some reason.

2441
02:24:44,200 --> 02:24:48,240
Speaker 2: So on Tuesday, March tenth, twenty twenty six, as you know,

2442
02:24:48,360 --> 02:24:53,960
Speaker 2: hostilities continued between Iran and Israel, ballistic missile got past

2443
02:24:54,160 --> 02:24:58,080
Speaker 2: Israel's defense systems and landed in near the city of

2444
02:24:58,080 --> 02:25:01,280
Speaker 2: bait Schemesh, just outside of j Rusalem. It did not

2445
02:25:01,440 --> 02:25:05,080
Speaker 2: land near anything, but it looks like trees, you can see.

2446
02:25:05,120 --> 02:25:08,680
Speaker 2: There was video captured of the explosion and posted by

2447
02:25:08,720 --> 02:25:12,480
Speaker 2: a journalist named Immanubal Fabian Oh yeah, who wrote with

2448
02:25:12,560 --> 02:25:15,560
Speaker 2: his post, no injuries are reported in Iran's latest ballistic

2449
02:25:15,560 --> 02:25:18,000
Speaker 2: missile attack on Israel. The fourth to day one missile

2450
02:25:18,000 --> 02:25:21,080
Speaker 2: struck an open area just outside beit Chamesh first responder say,

2451
02:25:21,080 --> 02:25:24,039
Speaker 2: and footage shows, and the footage does indeed show a

2452
02:25:24,040 --> 02:25:27,040
Speaker 2: ballistic missile impacting. There is an explosion. This does not

2453
02:25:27,080 --> 02:25:29,560
Speaker 2: look like fragments of a missile that were taken down.

2454
02:25:30,480 --> 02:25:33,279
Speaker 2: You know, based on what I know of ballistic missiles,

2455
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:35,160
Speaker 2: and based on what people who I know no more

2456
02:25:35,200 --> 02:25:38,640
Speaker 2: than me know about ballistic missiles, this was an intact

2457
02:25:38,640 --> 02:25:42,720
Speaker 2: ballistic missile hitting. It didn't hit a target that was valuable,

2458
02:25:42,760 --> 02:25:45,039
Speaker 2: It didn't hurt anybody as far as we're aware, but

2459
02:25:45,080 --> 02:25:46,959
Speaker 2: it got through the missile shield and a hit in

2460
02:25:47,000 --> 02:25:51,200
Speaker 2: Israeli territory. Normally you would wonder like, why does this this?

2461
02:25:51,360 --> 02:25:54,400
Speaker 2: I mean, this matters, you know if you're a local reporter, obviously,

2462
02:25:54,440 --> 02:25:55,960
Speaker 2: but why would anyone else care?

2463
02:25:56,520 --> 02:25:56,760
Speaker 3: Well?

2464
02:25:57,080 --> 02:26:00,879
Speaker 2: The day after, Manny Fabian posted this and this brief

2465
02:26:00,879 --> 02:26:04,879
Speaker 2: bit of reporting. He started receiving emails, weird emails, mostly

2466
02:26:04,920 --> 02:26:08,440
Speaker 2: in Hebrew, and like, here's one example from Times of

2467
02:26:08,520 --> 02:26:11,480
Speaker 2: Israel piece that he wrote, sorry for reaching out without

2468
02:26:11,480 --> 02:26:13,400
Speaker 2: a prior introduction, but I assume we will get to

2469
02:26:13,440 --> 02:26:13,960
Speaker 2: know each other.

2470
02:26:14,040 --> 02:26:14,280
Speaker 3: Well.

2471
02:26:14,400 --> 02:26:17,000
Speaker 2: I have an urgent request regarding the accuracy of your

2472
02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:19,400
Speaker 2: report on the missile attack on March tenth. I would

2473
02:26:19,400 --> 02:26:22,320
Speaker 2: really appreciate a response if possible. There is an inaccurate

2474
02:26:22,320 --> 02:26:24,240
Speaker 2: report from you about the missile attack on March tenth,

2475
02:26:24,280 --> 02:26:26,640
Speaker 2: and it's causing a chain of errors. If you could

2476
02:26:26,680 --> 02:26:28,560
Speaker 2: reply to me tonight, you would be helping me many

2477
02:26:28,600 --> 02:26:30,560
Speaker 2: others and of course the State of Israel, and along

2478
02:26:30,600 --> 02:26:32,200
Speaker 2: the way you would gain a good source.

2479
02:26:32,920 --> 02:26:34,080
Speaker 3: So that's really weird.

2480
02:26:34,240 --> 02:26:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the fuck is going if you're this guy. All

2481
02:26:36,720 --> 02:26:38,520
Speaker 2: you did was post, oh, hey, a rocket hit but

2482
02:26:38,520 --> 02:26:40,960
Speaker 2: it didn't hit anything. Yeah, like not a big deal.

2483
02:26:41,879 --> 02:26:44,320
Speaker 2: Give him the state of the war. And he starts

2484
02:26:44,320 --> 02:26:47,320
Speaker 2: getting spammed with a bunch of similar emails like this,

2485
02:26:47,920 --> 02:26:50,200
Speaker 2: And in addition to that, he's got people like on

2486
02:26:50,280 --> 02:26:53,720
Speaker 2: Twitter responding saying like hey, One person responded to one

2487
02:26:53,760 --> 02:26:55,880
Speaker 2: of his posts saying there are people saying they've received

2488
02:26:55,920 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 2: word from you that the missile strike in bite Schamesh

2489
02:26:58,120 --> 02:27:00,440
Speaker 2: on March tenth was in fact intercepted. Is this true

2490
02:27:00,480 --> 02:27:04,120
Speaker 2: or did no such interaction occur? So people start posting

2491
02:27:04,280 --> 02:27:06,480
Speaker 2: and sharing in other places that oh, I reached out

2492
02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:08,240
Speaker 2: to this guy and he said the missile was actually

2493
02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:10,120
Speaker 2: intercepted and it was just a piece that fell, and

2494
02:27:10,160 --> 02:27:13,120
Speaker 2: he reported it wrong, which is not at all what

2495
02:27:13,240 --> 02:27:16,240
Speaker 2: this guy had reported. So he's really confused. He has like,

2496
02:27:16,280 --> 02:27:18,600
Speaker 2: why are all these people bugging me about this very

2497
02:27:18,640 --> 02:27:22,120
Speaker 2: minor story and why are they spreading disinformation claiming that

2498
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:25,040
Speaker 2: I debunked my own story when I didn't.

2499
02:27:25,640 --> 02:27:25,959
Speaker 3: Well.

2500
02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:29,840
Speaker 2: The obvious reason why is that people that day on

2501
02:27:29,959 --> 02:27:34,200
Speaker 2: polymarket on March tenth were gambling on when Iran would

2502
02:27:34,200 --> 02:27:37,680
Speaker 2: strike Israel. There were fourteen million dollars waged that there

2503
02:27:37,680 --> 02:27:40,520
Speaker 2: would be a strike on March tenth. The rules of

2504
02:27:40,560 --> 02:27:43,840
Speaker 2: the bet per polymarket stated, this market will resolve to

2505
02:27:44,080 --> 02:27:47,160
Speaker 2: yes if Iran initiates a drone, missile or airstrike on

2506
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:50,160
Speaker 2: Israel soil on the listed date in Israel time gmt

2507
02:27:50,200 --> 02:27:54,080
Speaker 2: plus two. Otherwise, this market will resolve. No missiles or

2508
02:27:54,120 --> 02:27:57,360
Speaker 2: drones that are intercepted will not be sufficient for a

2509
02:27:57,440 --> 02:28:03,360
Speaker 2: yes resolution. Right, So that's why fourteen million dollars was

2510
02:28:03,400 --> 02:28:03,920
Speaker 2: in the air.

2511
02:28:04,240 --> 02:28:08,760
Speaker 4: It's people who had a lot of money on this event. Yeah, yes, specifically.

2512
02:28:08,760 --> 02:28:10,400
Speaker 4: And these people don't care if anyone was right. They

2513
02:28:10,400 --> 02:28:12,160
Speaker 4: don't care that a missile was fired. All they care

2514
02:28:12,200 --> 02:28:15,000
Speaker 4: about is whether or not the missile made it through

2515
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:18,560
Speaker 4: the defense network intact, right, because these were people who

2516
02:28:18,680 --> 02:28:21,320
Speaker 4: I guess had bet against that because they didn't want

2517
02:28:21,320 --> 02:28:22,199
Speaker 4: that to be the case.

2518
02:28:22,320 --> 02:28:22,960
Speaker 3: Right, right.

2519
02:28:23,560 --> 02:28:27,039
Speaker 2: He initially ignores these weird emails, and they start getting

2520
02:28:27,040 --> 02:28:28,760
Speaker 2: more and more aggressive, and people are like, when you're

2521
02:28:28,760 --> 02:28:31,280
Speaker 2: gonna update the article, Daniel, Daniel, update the article. You

2522
02:28:31,320 --> 02:28:33,240
Speaker 2: have to update the article. You know you were wrong.

2523
02:28:33,879 --> 02:28:34,600
Speaker 3: And after the.

2524
02:28:34,560 --> 02:28:37,240
Speaker 2: Weekend he starts getting messages like you have exactly half

2525
02:28:37,280 --> 02:28:40,240
Speaker 2: an hour to correct your attempted influence, despite the fact

2526
02:28:40,240 --> 02:28:42,680
Speaker 2: that you receive countless inquiries, you insist on leaving it

2527
02:28:42,720 --> 02:28:44,760
Speaker 2: this way. If you do not correct this by one

2528
02:28:44,760 --> 02:28:47,160
Speaker 2: am is reel time today, March fifteenth, you are bringing

2529
02:28:47,240 --> 02:28:50,240
Speaker 2: upon yourself damage you have never imagined you would suffer.

2530
02:28:52,840 --> 02:28:54,959
Speaker 3: That's already easer if I've ever seen one.

2531
02:28:55,280 --> 02:28:59,280
Speaker 2: Like, there's a bunch of shit like this. Someone said

2532
02:28:59,360 --> 02:29:01,720
Speaker 2: after you make a lose nine hundred thousand dollars, we

2533
02:29:01,720 --> 02:29:06,680
Speaker 2: will invest no less than that to finish you. This

2534
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:10,680
Speaker 2: is insane, but it's inevitable if you think about how

2535
02:29:10,720 --> 02:29:15,280
Speaker 2: polymarket works, right that once people are putting fortunes on

2536
02:29:15,360 --> 02:29:18,680
Speaker 2: the line around stupid shit, you know, like betting whether

2537
02:29:18,760 --> 02:29:20,640
Speaker 2: or not, oh the missile make it through or not

2538
02:29:20,720 --> 02:29:23,680
Speaker 2: on this That is dumb, right, missiles and stuff that's

2539
02:29:23,840 --> 02:29:25,320
Speaker 2: very serious to a lot of people who live in

2540
02:29:25,320 --> 02:29:28,440
Speaker 2: the region, But betting on it this way is fundamentally stupid.

2541
02:29:28,959 --> 02:29:32,200
Speaker 2: But it's all Polymarket's all stupid bets like this, and

2542
02:29:32,400 --> 02:29:34,920
Speaker 2: they are going to increase only come after people once

2543
02:29:34,959 --> 02:29:37,240
Speaker 2: they realize, hey, maybe I can actually change and get

2544
02:29:37,240 --> 02:29:40,800
Speaker 2: a winning resolution or whatever if I harass the journalist

2545
02:29:40,920 --> 02:29:44,160
Speaker 2: on the ground. There's a vested financial interest in going

2546
02:29:44,200 --> 02:29:46,760
Speaker 2: after people over stuff like this. So this is this

2547
02:29:46,840 --> 02:29:50,280
Speaker 2: particular story is happening in Israel, involves the reporting of

2548
02:29:50,280 --> 02:29:54,160
Speaker 2: an Israeli journalist. This isn't gonna stay limited to that

2549
02:29:54,400 --> 02:29:56,240
Speaker 2: conflict or to that region of the world. This is

2550
02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:58,360
Speaker 2: going to be thing that journalists all over the world

2551
02:29:58,360 --> 02:30:01,600
Speaker 2: increasingly deal with. This isn't important story and one that

2552
02:30:01,640 --> 02:30:04,440
Speaker 2: I think says some pretty bleak shit about the immediate

2553
02:30:04,480 --> 02:30:06,959
Speaker 2: future of news gathering in this country.

2554
02:30:07,160 --> 02:30:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's cool.

2555
02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:13,160
Speaker 2: On the upside, Polymarket is about to open a splashy

2556
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:17,400
Speaker 2: new bar in Washington, DC called the Situation Room, and

2557
02:30:17,440 --> 02:30:21,480
Speaker 2: I found Polymarket made a post on their substack in

2558
02:30:21,480 --> 02:30:25,199
Speaker 2: which they announced this, saying, the world's first bar dedicated

2559
02:30:25,240 --> 02:30:28,520
Speaker 2: to monitoring the situation. Imagine a sports bar, but just

2560
02:30:28,600 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 2: for situation monitoring live X feeds, flight radar, Bloomberg terminals,

2561
02:30:32,800 --> 02:30:38,679
Speaker 2: and Polymarket screens. Grand opening this Friday. Imagine the first response.

2562
02:30:38,400 --> 02:30:40,280
Speaker 4: This is every bar in Washington, d C.

2563
02:30:40,520 --> 02:30:43,240
Speaker 2: First response is just someone saying, drink your way through

2564
02:30:43,280 --> 02:30:47,160
Speaker 2: World War three, which just also every bar in Washington DC.

2565
02:30:48,720 --> 02:30:50,640
Speaker 2: Someone else says, this seems awful, but I guess that

2566
02:30:50,720 --> 02:30:52,680
Speaker 2: perfectly aligns with your company in general.

2567
02:30:55,160 --> 02:30:58,080
Speaker 3: Get uh cool?

2568
02:30:58,440 --> 02:31:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I love poly Market. It's good that this

2569
02:31:02,120 --> 02:31:04,080
Speaker 2: is what we've turned society into.

2570
02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:04,959
Speaker 3: No notes.

2571
02:31:05,720 --> 02:31:07,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll just add this to the list of things

2572
02:31:07,840 --> 02:31:12,120
Speaker 4: that prediction markets will destabilize geopolitically. Yeah great, not just

2573
02:31:12,160 --> 02:31:14,560
Speaker 4: the insider trading problems of people with you know, before

2574
02:31:14,640 --> 02:31:17,680
Speaker 4: had knowledge of military strikes or certain world events, but

2575
02:31:18,280 --> 02:31:23,240
Speaker 4: trying to influence the reporting of events to sway polymarket

2576
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:27,680
Speaker 4: or Calshi's decision on whether whether the market was correctly fulfilled.

2577
02:31:27,920 --> 02:31:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

2578
02:31:30,280 --> 02:31:32,959
Speaker 2: Yep, interesting and yeah foreboding.

2579
02:31:33,959 --> 02:31:34,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2580
02:31:34,959 --> 02:31:44,560
Speaker 2: Anyway, so yeah, here's some Ads. You built the animals.

2581
02:31:50,720 --> 02:31:53,400
Speaker 2: We're back. Here's some James. You built the animals.

2582
02:31:54,560 --> 02:31:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, lucky you. First, I want to talk about the

2583
02:31:57,320 --> 02:31:59,520
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and then I'm going to throw it to

2584
02:31:59,560 --> 02:32:02,120
Speaker 3: Garrison talk about some other court stuff. This is our

2585
02:32:02,160 --> 02:32:06,760
Speaker 3: court segment. The Supreme Court has schedule cases for the TPS.

2586
02:32:06,760 --> 02:32:10,520
Speaker 3: That's a temporary protected status pretending to Syria and Haiti

2587
02:32:10,920 --> 02:32:14,520
Speaker 3: for April, meaning these statuses will remain in effect, likely

2588
02:32:14,600 --> 02:32:17,800
Speaker 3: until the end of June or July. The justices didn't

2589
02:32:17,840 --> 02:32:20,400
Speaker 3: alter the position of the New York and DC judges

2590
02:32:20,440 --> 02:32:24,000
Speaker 3: who indefinitely postpone the termination of the TPS. The Trump

2591
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:26,480
Speaker 3: administration has hustled really hard to get this to the

2592
02:32:26,520 --> 02:32:29,199
Speaker 3: Supreme Court. They first tried to get the Supreme Court

2593
02:32:29,280 --> 02:32:31,760
Speaker 3: to let them remove people while it waited to weigh

2594
02:32:31,800 --> 02:32:34,120
Speaker 3: in on the case, and then they tried to get

2595
02:32:34,120 --> 02:32:36,640
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court to take the case before the Second

2596
02:32:36,640 --> 02:32:39,360
Speaker 3: Circuit had a chance to weigh in This is called

2597
02:32:39,440 --> 02:32:42,280
Speaker 3: thirty or right before judgment. It's how the case got

2598
02:32:42,320 --> 02:32:45,480
Speaker 3: to the Supreme Court. This, I should note it's different

2599
02:32:45,640 --> 02:32:49,120
Speaker 3: from the Venezuela case where the TPS was terminated because

2600
02:32:49,160 --> 02:32:51,720
Speaker 3: the numbers are much smaller, and therefore it's going to

2601
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:54,560
Speaker 3: be harder for the US government to show harm. Right,

2602
02:32:55,080 --> 02:32:58,959
Speaker 3: it pertains to thirty forty thousand people ever had to

2603
02:32:58,959 --> 02:33:03,200
Speaker 3: guess by con trust. It's very easy for people to

2604
02:33:03,240 --> 02:33:07,000
Speaker 3: show potential harm in Haiti or Syria. Right, just to

2605
02:33:07,040 --> 02:33:10,400
Speaker 3: give an example of Syria that has been folenced directed

2606
02:33:10,440 --> 02:33:15,840
Speaker 3: against Alavites, Drew's people and Kurds largely unimpeded by the

2607
02:33:15,879 --> 02:33:20,720
Speaker 3: government since a sad fell last year, and Syria remains

2608
02:33:20,760 --> 02:33:23,720
Speaker 3: on the State Departments do not travel list. Yeah, you

2609
02:33:23,760 --> 02:33:26,039
Speaker 3: had some stuff about prairie Land. Do you want to

2610
02:33:26,040 --> 02:33:26,480
Speaker 3: share in it?

2611
02:33:26,879 --> 02:33:30,120
Speaker 4: Yes, let's talk about the prairie Land trial. Yeah, we're

2612
02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:35,560
Speaker 4: going to be doing a more in depth episode next

2613
02:33:35,640 --> 02:33:37,800
Speaker 4: week the start of next week on prairie Land. It's

2614
02:33:37,800 --> 02:33:42,320
Speaker 4: about double the length of today's summary, But I do

2615
02:33:42,400 --> 02:33:46,320
Speaker 4: want to go over some essential information about the trial

2616
02:33:46,440 --> 02:33:50,800
Speaker 4: that concluded last week. So last week the Trump administration

2617
02:33:50,959 --> 02:33:56,400
Speaker 4: got their first conviction in an antifat heroism case. On Friday,

2618
02:33:56,400 --> 02:33:59,039
Speaker 4: March thirteenth, eight people were convicted by a federal grand

2619
02:33:59,120 --> 02:34:02,440
Speaker 4: jury on charge of riot, conspiracy to use and carry

2620
02:34:02,440 --> 02:34:07,720
Speaker 4: an explosive, and providing material support to terrorists. One of

2621
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:10,440
Speaker 4: the defendants was convicted of attempted murder of a police officer,

2622
02:34:10,720 --> 02:34:14,560
Speaker 4: and another person was convicted on two accounts of concealing documents,

2623
02:34:14,840 --> 02:34:18,400
Speaker 4: bringing the total number of federal defendants to nine. This

2624
02:34:18,680 --> 02:34:21,959
Speaker 4: case stemmed from what the defense argued was a noise

2625
02:34:22,080 --> 02:34:26,600
Speaker 4: demonstration protest outside of an ICE attention facility in Prairie Land, Texas,

2626
02:34:26,680 --> 02:34:30,720
Speaker 4: last summer on the night of July fourth. After protesters

2627
02:34:30,840 --> 02:34:35,960
Speaker 4: through fireworks and vandalized property, DHS personnel called local police

2628
02:34:35,959 --> 02:34:40,000
Speaker 4: for assistance. One officer arrived, drew his handgun, and yelled

2629
02:34:40,120 --> 02:34:42,200
Speaker 4: stop at a person in all black clothes who was

2630
02:34:42,280 --> 02:34:45,760
Speaker 4: running away. One of the defendants, named Benjamin's Song, then

2631
02:34:45,840 --> 02:34:50,279
Speaker 4: yelled get to the rifles, before firing toward the officer

2632
02:34:50,320 --> 02:34:52,400
Speaker 4: with an air of fifteen, hitting him in the neck.

2633
02:34:53,080 --> 02:34:55,600
Speaker 4: A week into the trial, US District Court Judge Mark

2634
02:34:55,640 --> 02:34:59,080
Speaker 4: Pittman ruled at defense attorneys could not argue that the

2635
02:34:59,120 --> 02:35:03,400
Speaker 4: defendants include the accused shooter were acting in self defense

2636
02:35:03,600 --> 02:35:07,440
Speaker 4: or the defense of others against unlawful force just because

2637
02:35:07,480 --> 02:35:10,840
Speaker 4: the officer had already drawn and pointed his handgun before

2638
02:35:11,000 --> 02:35:15,720
Speaker 4: Song fired. Prosecutors compared this to Waco. Judge Pittman ruled

2639
02:35:15,760 --> 02:35:18,039
Speaker 4: that the officer drawing and pointing his handgun at a

2640
02:35:18,080 --> 02:35:22,000
Speaker 4: fleeing suspect is not quote unquote excessive as a matter

2641
02:35:22,080 --> 02:35:25,360
Speaker 4: of law because the officer did not actually use deadly

2642
02:35:25,440 --> 02:35:29,279
Speaker 4: force or shoot first, and he listed three federal precedents

2643
02:35:29,320 --> 02:35:33,400
Speaker 4: for this. Let's get into this action and the role

2644
02:35:33,440 --> 02:35:37,920
Speaker 4: of Antifa in the court case. This action was originally

2645
02:35:37,920 --> 02:35:41,840
Speaker 4: planned on the encrypted messaging app Signal and via an

2646
02:35:41,879 --> 02:35:45,840
Speaker 4: in person quote unquote gear check meeting. The day before

2647
02:35:45,920 --> 02:35:49,520
Speaker 4: the action. Benjamin Song advertised the action in a larger

2648
02:35:49,560 --> 02:35:53,720
Speaker 4: group chat of dozens of quote unquote trusted individuals. When

2649
02:35:53,720 --> 02:35:57,760
Speaker 4: asked about bringing firearms during action planning, Song repeatedly stated,

2650
02:35:58,080 --> 02:36:01,279
Speaker 4: I'm not going back to prison, I'm not getting arrested.

2651
02:36:01,520 --> 02:36:03,400
Speaker 3: I'm bringing guns. Quote.

2652
02:36:03,800 --> 02:36:06,600
Speaker 4: So the trial, Song was characterized as the de facto

2653
02:36:06,720 --> 02:36:10,720
Speaker 4: leader of the Antifa cell or affinity group, but he

2654
02:36:10,720 --> 02:36:13,439
Speaker 4: did not have a close relationship with all fellow defendants.

2655
02:36:14,040 --> 02:36:17,320
Speaker 4: At the gear Check meeting on July third, Song proposed

2656
02:36:17,360 --> 02:36:21,520
Speaker 4: to free detainees using quote unquote suppressive fire, but this

2657
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:24,560
Speaker 4: idea was shot down by other meeting attendees.

2658
02:36:25,280 --> 02:36:25,640
Speaker 3: Some of the.

2659
02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:29,280
Speaker 4: Defendants attended a daytime protest outside the ICE facility earlier

2660
02:36:29,360 --> 02:36:32,840
Speaker 4: that day, on July fourth, after which they reported back

2661
02:36:32,879 --> 02:36:36,480
Speaker 4: to fellow defendants details regarding the facility security prior to

2662
02:36:36,480 --> 02:36:41,359
Speaker 4: the nighttime action. Two defendants were neither in these planning

2663
02:36:41,440 --> 02:36:45,280
Speaker 4: chats nor attended the gear check meeting, but all of

2664
02:36:45,360 --> 02:36:49,760
Speaker 4: defendants that attended the protest carpooled in two vehicles, bringing

2665
02:36:49,760 --> 02:36:53,400
Speaker 4: a total of eleven firearms, body armor, eye facts, and

2666
02:36:53,480 --> 02:36:56,680
Speaker 4: all war Black Bloc which were all presented as government

2667
02:36:56,840 --> 02:37:01,440
Speaker 4: evidence exhibits. The government argued that the defendants were members

2668
02:37:01,480 --> 02:37:06,400
Speaker 4: of a quote unquote North Texas Antifa cell. The indictment

2669
02:37:06,560 --> 02:37:10,600
Speaker 4: describes Antifa as a quote militant enterprise made up of

2670
02:37:10,640 --> 02:37:15,040
Speaker 4: networks of individuals and small groups, primarily ascribing to a revolutionary,

2671
02:37:15,120 --> 02:37:18,760
Speaker 4: anarchist or autonomous Marxist ideology which explicitly calls for the

2672
02:37:18,800 --> 02:37:21,800
Speaker 4: overthrow of the United States government, law enforcement authorities, and

2673
02:37:21,920 --> 02:37:26,240
Speaker 4: the system of law. Prosecution argued that this cell was

2674
02:37:26,360 --> 02:37:31,119
Speaker 4: linked through a triple ven diagram of the Socialist Rifle Association,

2675
02:37:31,280 --> 02:37:34,560
Speaker 4: the John Brown Gun Club, and the Emma Goldman Book Club,

2676
02:37:35,000 --> 02:37:38,720
Speaker 4: which is a local Zene Destro group that also put

2677
02:37:38,760 --> 02:37:43,320
Speaker 4: on community events. Prosecution said that this ven diagram converged

2678
02:37:43,360 --> 02:37:48,520
Speaker 4: on quote unquote direct militant action. The government called on

2679
02:37:48,760 --> 02:37:53,599
Speaker 4: David Kyle Sheeter as an expert witness to testify about Antifa.

2680
02:37:53,720 --> 02:37:57,200
Speaker 4: Cheter's a member of the Center for Security Policy, an

2681
02:37:57,280 --> 02:38:02,840
Speaker 4: SPLC designated hate group. Defense tried to object to this

2682
02:38:02,920 --> 02:38:06,920
Speaker 4: witness's expertise, but the judge informed the defense that they

2683
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:10,640
Speaker 4: missed the deadline for such objections, which would have been

2684
02:38:11,120 --> 02:38:14,920
Speaker 4: in a pre trial motion. Much of this case was

2685
02:38:15,240 --> 02:38:20,680
Speaker 4: spent arguing over whether the defendants were quote unquote Antifa,

2686
02:38:20,760 --> 02:38:25,000
Speaker 4: what that even means, and if it's relevant to the charges.

2687
02:38:25,920 --> 02:38:30,800
Speaker 4: According to Prairie Land Support Committee court notes, Judge Pittman

2688
02:38:30,959 --> 02:38:34,800
Speaker 4: asked the prosecution, quote is it necessary to prove this

2689
02:38:34,959 --> 02:38:40,280
Speaker 4: stuff about Antifa? The prosecution responded that Antifa ideology, particularly

2690
02:38:40,360 --> 02:38:43,880
Speaker 4: black block, was how the group operated. The judge pressed,

2691
02:38:44,200 --> 02:38:47,720
Speaker 4: whether it's Antifa or the Methodist Women's Auxiliary, why does

2692
02:38:47,720 --> 02:38:51,600
Speaker 4: it matter? The prosecution argued, they took direct action against

2693
02:38:51,680 --> 02:38:55,840
Speaker 4: the ice facility. The prosecution argued black Block and Antifa

2694
02:38:55,959 --> 02:38:59,959
Speaker 4: ideology were central to how the alleged attack was carried out.

2695
02:39:00,560 --> 02:39:00,840
Speaker 3: Quote.

2696
02:39:01,320 --> 02:39:04,200
Speaker 4: The government described black block for the purposes of this

2697
02:39:04,280 --> 02:39:07,959
Speaker 4: case as quote dark clothing with head and face coverings

2698
02:39:08,000 --> 02:39:12,359
Speaker 4: that concealed their identities, designed to hide each individual's identity,

2699
02:39:12,520 --> 02:39:15,400
Speaker 4: but also aid in a bet those members engaged in

2700
02:39:15,440 --> 02:39:19,280
Speaker 4: illegal acts by making members indistinguishable from one another to

2701
02:39:19,480 --> 02:39:24,560
Speaker 4: law enforcement. Now, all of this raises the question whether

2702
02:39:24,600 --> 02:39:29,560
Speaker 4: this prosecution is against the defendant's political ideology or the

2703
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:33,240
Speaker 4: specific criminal acts of throwing fireworks or shooting at a

2704
02:39:33,240 --> 02:39:37,960
Speaker 4: police officer, rather than being convicted of being members of

2705
02:39:38,360 --> 02:39:41,280
Speaker 4: Antifa the terrorist group, something that still doesn't really have

2706
02:39:41,400 --> 02:39:48,000
Speaker 4: legal precedent. Prosecutors argued that the Antifa ideology, left wing

2707
02:39:48,040 --> 02:39:52,320
Speaker 4: anti authoritarianism played a role in inspiring defendants, formed the

2708
02:39:52,360 --> 02:39:55,879
Speaker 4: basis of political affinity that brought the collection of individuals together,

2709
02:39:56,280 --> 02:40:00,000
Speaker 4: and relates to a collection of security practices, subcultural practices,

2710
02:40:00,040 --> 02:40:03,760
Speaker 4: and associated tactics which were employed before, during, and after

2711
02:40:04,200 --> 02:40:08,200
Speaker 4: the criminal acts related to the Noise Demo protest. There's

2712
02:40:08,240 --> 02:40:11,280
Speaker 4: been a lot of reporting on people being convicted for

2713
02:40:11,800 --> 02:40:16,640
Speaker 4: possessing zines. These are short political pamphlets, usually with some

2714
02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:19,520
Speaker 4: kind of radical political ideology. There's a lot of anarchist

2715
02:40:19,680 --> 02:40:22,840
Speaker 4: zines out there now. Zines did play a role in

2716
02:40:22,879 --> 02:40:25,879
Speaker 4: this trial, a two part role. Prosecution argued that the

2717
02:40:25,879 --> 02:40:32,000
Speaker 4: presence of insurrectionary zines is indicative of an alignment with Antifa,

2718
02:40:32,440 --> 02:40:35,160
Speaker 4: even if possession of these zines itself is not a crime.

2719
02:40:36,200 --> 02:40:39,000
Speaker 4: The other relevancy of zines to this case relates to

2720
02:40:39,040 --> 02:40:43,840
Speaker 4: the concealing documents charges against Daniel Ronaldo Sanchez Estrada and

2721
02:40:43,920 --> 02:40:48,440
Speaker 4: his wife Marcela Rueda, based on transporting a box of

2722
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:52,440
Speaker 4: political zines from his wife's house to a friend's house

2723
02:40:52,520 --> 02:40:56,959
Speaker 4: in dent In, Texas. The government claimed that Rieda called

2724
02:40:57,040 --> 02:41:01,480
Speaker 4: Sanchez Estrada from jail on July seven, instructing him to

2725
02:41:01,560 --> 02:41:05,560
Speaker 4: conceal evidence by telling her husband to tow her vehicle,

2726
02:41:05,600 --> 02:41:09,480
Speaker 4: which was at the action staging site. Quote toe it.

2727
02:41:09,959 --> 02:41:12,880
Speaker 4: My phone is in the back. Do what you got

2728
02:41:12,959 --> 02:41:17,080
Speaker 4: to do. Just toe it unquote. The defense claimed that

2729
02:41:17,160 --> 02:41:21,160
Speaker 4: she was worried about her car being repoed. Centisstrada never

2730
02:41:21,240 --> 02:41:24,640
Speaker 4: got to the car or the phone, but Raeda also

2731
02:41:24,760 --> 02:41:28,080
Speaker 4: said quote move whatever you need to move in the

2732
02:41:28,160 --> 02:41:34,400
Speaker 4: house unquote. Saniasstrada mentioned already being at the house and replied,

2733
02:41:34,760 --> 02:41:38,080
Speaker 4: we're good quote unquote in reference to moving stuff from

2734
02:41:38,080 --> 02:41:43,119
Speaker 4: the house. Prosecution argued this meant moving evidence. Defense noted

2735
02:41:43,560 --> 02:41:46,920
Speaker 4: that Raeda was talking about her pets at the time.

2736
02:41:47,680 --> 02:41:52,520
Speaker 4: According to support committee notes, Sanchisstrada and his wife Rida

2737
02:41:52,560 --> 02:41:56,600
Speaker 4: were found guilty of conspiracy to conceal documents and other

2738
02:41:56,680 --> 02:42:00,640
Speaker 4: objects that would implicate Reeda in the riot and shooting

2739
02:42:00,959 --> 02:42:05,680
Speaker 4: at the Prairie Land Facility. Now nine of the counts

2740
02:42:06,760 --> 02:42:11,920
Speaker 4: count one, two, four, and five through ten cited Pinkerton versus.

2741
02:42:12,080 --> 02:42:17,120
Speaker 4: United States, nineteen forty six. The judge explained to the

2742
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:21,640
Speaker 4: jury that a defendant can be criminally liable for the

2743
02:42:21,680 --> 02:42:26,720
Speaker 4: offenses committed by another co conspirator if the offense was

2744
02:42:26,800 --> 02:42:33,879
Speaker 4: quote reasonably foreseeable and committed in furtherance of the conspiracy unquote.

2745
02:42:33,920 --> 02:42:36,760
Speaker 4: From very early on in the trial, prosecution argued that

2746
02:42:36,959 --> 02:42:41,400
Speaker 4: song firing on the officers was quote unquote reasonably foreseeable

2747
02:42:41,959 --> 02:42:45,320
Speaker 4: based on the planning of the protest and previous statements

2748
02:42:45,400 --> 02:42:50,200
Speaker 4: made by Song. The jury found all defendants charged guilty

2749
02:42:50,240 --> 02:42:54,760
Speaker 4: of counts one two, three and four that's riot material sport, terrorists,

2750
02:42:54,920 --> 02:42:59,480
Speaker 4: and explosive charges, but did not find other defendants besides

2751
02:42:59,520 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 4: Song guilty of attempted murder or discharging a firearm using

2752
02:43:03,600 --> 02:43:09,320
Speaker 4: this Pinkerton co conspirator liability. Lastly, let's discuss two charges

2753
02:43:10,040 --> 02:43:13,880
Speaker 4: which now could carry worrying potential to be used against

2754
02:43:13,879 --> 02:43:18,760
Speaker 4: protesters in the future based on this case's precedent. First

2755
02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:22,480
Speaker 4: conspiracy to use and carry an explosive and using and

2756
02:43:22,520 --> 02:43:27,360
Speaker 4: carrying an explosive during a riot. The only explosives used

2757
02:43:27,480 --> 02:43:31,280
Speaker 4: were fireworks, and even the judge confirmed in this case

2758
02:43:31,320 --> 02:43:34,360
Speaker 4: that it was established that the fireworks caused no damage

2759
02:43:34,400 --> 02:43:38,520
Speaker 4: to the ice facility. Yet Stephen Brenneman and ats explosives

2760
02:43:38,560 --> 02:43:42,720
Speaker 4: a special agent, testified that fireworks still meet the statutory

2761
02:43:42,760 --> 02:43:47,360
Speaker 4: definition of explosives under eighteen usc. Section eight four four

2762
02:43:47,440 --> 02:43:54,199
Speaker 4: IJ because they contain gunpowder as defined in the statute.

2763
02:43:54,240 --> 02:43:57,520
Speaker 4: Me and Robert have been to and reported on a

2764
02:43:57,560 --> 02:44:00,560
Speaker 4: fourth of July protest also in from of a government

2765
02:44:00,600 --> 02:44:04,600
Speaker 4: building back in twenty twenty, where people launched a lot

2766
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:07,520
Speaker 4: of fireworks up at that Federal courthouse.

2767
02:44:07,480 --> 02:44:11,000
Speaker 2: A lot of fireworks and other places.

2768
02:44:11,040 --> 02:44:13,800
Speaker 4: And this was a very similar event with the launching

2769
02:44:13,800 --> 02:44:16,879
Speaker 4: of fireworks at federal property, which now under this president,

2770
02:44:16,959 --> 02:44:21,160
Speaker 4: could be charged as a crime. Finally, let's talk about

2771
02:44:21,280 --> 02:44:26,520
Speaker 4: providing material support to terrorists. That's eighteen Usc. Two three

2772
02:44:26,680 --> 02:44:33,000
Speaker 4: three nine. This statute has two sections. One relates to

2773
02:44:33,520 --> 02:44:38,720
Speaker 4: material support provided to a designated foreign terrorist organization. This

2774
02:44:38,760 --> 02:44:41,080
Speaker 4: is not what the defendants were charged under. They're not

2775
02:44:41,160 --> 02:44:44,959
Speaker 4: saying that Antifa qualifies as one of these designated foreign

2776
02:44:45,000 --> 02:44:48,359
Speaker 4: terrorist organizations. That's not what's being argued here. The defendants

2777
02:44:48,360 --> 02:44:52,560
Speaker 4: were charged under Section A, alleging they provided and attempted

2778
02:44:52,600 --> 02:44:56,960
Speaker 4: to provide material support and resources, including property that can

2779
02:44:57,040 --> 02:45:04,160
Speaker 4: be money, services, training, communic pations, equipment like walkie talkies, weapons, explosives,

2780
02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:09,840
Speaker 4: personnel including themselves, and transportation, knowing and intending that they

2781
02:45:09,920 --> 02:45:13,200
Speaker 4: were to be used in preparation for and in carrying

2782
02:45:13,200 --> 02:45:17,080
Speaker 4: out an offence identified as a federal crime of terrorism,

2783
02:45:17,480 --> 02:45:19,880
Speaker 4: or in carrying out the concealment of an escape from

2784
02:45:19,959 --> 02:45:23,760
Speaker 4: set offense. The statute lists at least twenty eight possible

2785
02:45:24,160 --> 02:45:28,600
Speaker 4: terrorism offenses. Relevant to this case are three eighteen Usc.

2786
02:45:29,080 --> 02:45:32,240
Speaker 4: Eight four to four F. It's maliciously attempting to damage

2787
02:45:32,280 --> 02:45:36,600
Speaker 4: government property by means of fire or an explosive fireworks

2788
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:42,760
Speaker 4: count eighteen USC. One three sixty one, willful depredation against

2789
02:45:42,920 --> 02:45:46,240
Speaker 4: any property of the United States exceeding one thousand dollars.

2790
02:45:46,600 --> 02:45:49,000
Speaker 4: This is property damaged by other means exceeding that one

2791
02:45:49,040 --> 02:45:54,840
Speaker 4: thousand dollars threshold. And eighteen USC one one four killing

2792
02:45:55,000 --> 02:45:58,160
Speaker 4: or attempting to kill any officer or employee of the

2793
02:45:58,280 --> 02:46:02,160
Speaker 4: United States. Government accused the defendants of providing material support

2794
02:46:02,200 --> 02:46:05,400
Speaker 4: to terrorists in these three different ways, but to convict,

2795
02:46:05,520 --> 02:46:07,959
Speaker 4: the jury only had to decide there was proof beyond

2796
02:46:08,000 --> 02:46:11,640
Speaker 4: reasonable doubt on one of these ways. They didn't need

2797
02:46:11,680 --> 02:46:15,440
Speaker 4: all three. To quote the jury instructions, Quote, if a

2798
02:46:15,480 --> 02:46:20,800
Speaker 4: defendant's speech, expression, or associations were made with intent to

2799
02:46:20,879 --> 02:46:24,360
Speaker 4: knowingly provide material support or resources to be used to

2800
02:46:24,360 --> 02:46:27,200
Speaker 4: prepare for or carry out a violation of federal law,

2801
02:46:27,640 --> 02:46:29,840
Speaker 4: or to carry out the concealment of an escape from

2802
02:46:29,879 --> 02:46:33,440
Speaker 4: such violation, then the First Amendment would not provide a

2803
02:46:33,520 --> 02:46:35,240
Speaker 4: defense to that conduct.

2804
02:46:35,560 --> 02:46:36,720
Speaker 3: Unquote.

2805
02:46:36,760 --> 02:46:40,080
Speaker 4: Benjamin's Song now faces a minimum penalty of twenty years

2806
02:46:40,120 --> 02:46:44,360
Speaker 4: and a maximum of life imprisonment. Other defendants at Prairie

2807
02:46:44,440 --> 02:46:47,240
Speaker 4: Land face sentences ranging from a minimum of ten years

2808
02:46:47,280 --> 02:46:50,039
Speaker 4: to up to sixty years in federal prison, and the

2809
02:46:50,120 --> 02:46:53,400
Speaker 4: husband convicted of concealing documents faces up to forty years

2810
02:46:53,440 --> 02:46:54,320
Speaker 4: in federal prison.

2811
02:46:55,120 --> 02:46:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a very bleak case and I don't

2812
02:46:58,080 --> 02:46:59,000
Speaker 2: really have much to add.

2813
02:46:59,040 --> 02:47:03,240
Speaker 4: It's very sad m Yeah, no, and it's worth understanding

2814
02:47:03,560 --> 02:47:07,520
Speaker 4: the specific way they're using this material support statute. Yeah,

2815
02:47:07,879 --> 02:47:11,560
Speaker 4: just establishing someone is a member of quote unquote Antifa

2816
02:47:11,640 --> 02:47:13,680
Speaker 4: is not really what they're going after. But they're using

2817
02:47:13,720 --> 02:47:17,440
Speaker 4: Antifa as this way to link the defendants through this

2818
02:47:17,520 --> 02:47:21,160
Speaker 4: ideological unity to show that there's a conspiracy, some kind

2819
02:47:21,160 --> 02:47:24,039
Speaker 4: of like political conspiracy that then could be tied to

2820
02:47:24,480 --> 02:47:29,560
Speaker 4: offenses that are terrorism, like damaging government property with the

2821
02:47:29,560 --> 02:47:34,760
Speaker 4: intent to influence or intimidate government policy. Right, that's the

2822
02:47:34,800 --> 02:47:37,640
Speaker 4: sort of framing that was used in the guilty please

2823
02:47:38,160 --> 02:47:40,920
Speaker 4: for some other former defendants of this case, And that's

2824
02:47:40,959 --> 02:47:43,520
Speaker 4: what the government is trying to argue here. We're gonna

2825
02:47:43,560 --> 02:47:47,080
Speaker 4: go on a break and return for one final segment

2826
02:47:47,200 --> 02:48:05,600
Speaker 4: touching on the economy and Iroan. Sorry lacking.

2827
02:48:07,320 --> 02:48:16,200
Speaker 3: Locking jazz bob, locking jazz bot, Sorry lacking locking jazz bo,

2828
02:48:16,720 --> 02:48:18,039
Speaker 3: locking jazz bo.

2829
02:48:20,200 --> 02:48:23,160
Speaker 1: Let's check in with the strait of ramuse where things

2830
02:48:23,160 --> 02:48:27,000
Speaker 1: are going extremely poorly for the US, Israel and every

2831
02:48:27,000 --> 02:48:30,600
Speaker 1: country in the world that relies on oil and liquefied

2832
02:48:30,640 --> 02:48:33,000
Speaker 1: natural gas, as well as helium fertilizer at a whole bunch

2833
02:48:33,000 --> 02:48:38,080
Speaker 1: of other exports. All attempts to actually open the Strait

2834
02:48:38,440 --> 02:48:43,320
Speaker 1: have failed. Now, Iran has still been shipping a decent

2835
02:48:43,840 --> 02:48:47,200
Speaker 1: amount of oil out to some extent, They've been able

2836
02:48:47,240 --> 02:48:49,160
Speaker 1: to send their own tankers through and the US and

2837
02:48:49,240 --> 02:48:53,320
Speaker 1: Israel have not attacked them thus far. Now there has

2838
02:48:53,400 --> 02:48:56,480
Speaker 1: been some developments in terms of attempts to open the Strait.

2839
02:48:56,560 --> 02:49:00,720
Speaker 1: Israel claimed they would help reopen the Strait. We also

2840
02:49:00,760 --> 02:49:05,640
Speaker 1: got a report in Reuters that Britain, France, Germany, Italy,

2841
02:49:05,720 --> 02:49:09,959
Speaker 1: the Netherlands and Japan have agreed to help open the Strait.

2842
02:49:10,800 --> 02:49:13,400
Speaker 1: This is a kind of weird group of countries. It

2843
02:49:13,520 --> 02:49:15,960
Speaker 1: is the G seven, which is the Good Group of Seven,

2844
02:49:15,959 --> 02:49:19,439
Speaker 1: which is a very sort of influential group of American allies.

2845
02:49:20,440 --> 02:49:24,000
Speaker 1: But it's the G seven minus Canada with the Netherlands

2846
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:27,200
Speaker 1: in its place, which is sort of odd. Now, this

2847
02:49:27,280 --> 02:49:30,240
Speaker 1: is not going to do anything to actually open the Straits.

2848
02:49:30,480 --> 02:49:33,880
Speaker 1: There are two reasons for this. One is that none

2849
02:49:33,920 --> 02:49:36,720
Speaker 1: of these countries have actually committed to do anything other

2850
02:49:36,760 --> 02:49:41,280
Speaker 1: than quote to contribute to appropriate efforts to ensure safe

2851
02:49:41,320 --> 02:49:46,920
Speaker 1: passages through the Strait and start quote preparatory planning, which

2852
02:49:46,959 --> 02:49:50,400
Speaker 1: means absolutely nothing. And the second reason is that if

2853
02:49:50,480 --> 02:49:53,440
Speaker 1: all of these countries, you know, put every single naval

2854
02:49:53,480 --> 02:49:56,400
Speaker 1: asset at the disposal for some reason, to put all

2855
02:49:56,440 --> 02:49:58,720
Speaker 1: of them in the street and four news, it wouldn't

2856
02:49:58,760 --> 02:50:01,360
Speaker 1: do anything to actually open them straight. There's a good

2857
02:50:01,360 --> 02:50:04,920
Speaker 1: piece and defector about this called Trump to World, Please

2858
02:50:05,000 --> 02:50:09,800
Speaker 1: help Me Unshoot my own leg off, where the author

2859
02:50:10,280 --> 02:50:13,160
Speaker 1: Albert Burneco points out, and I think this is a

2860
02:50:13,240 --> 02:50:16,320
Speaker 1: very useful way of understanding the problem here that these

2861
02:50:16,360 --> 02:50:17,400
Speaker 1: oil tankers are.

2862
02:50:17,280 --> 02:50:19,360
Speaker 10: The size of skyscrapers.

2863
02:50:19,600 --> 02:50:22,000
Speaker 1: They're not They're not getting oil takers do the straight

2864
02:50:22,040 --> 02:50:22,600
Speaker 1: as long as.

2865
02:50:22,520 --> 02:50:25,680
Speaker 10: The run on do this. Every week I say this,

2866
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:26,520
Speaker 10: and every week.

2867
02:50:26,360 --> 02:50:28,480
Speaker 1: A bunch of people go, oh, they're gonna open the

2868
02:50:28,520 --> 02:50:31,320
Speaker 1: straight Ooh do There's all these pre cycles, and like

2869
02:50:31,680 --> 02:50:34,680
Speaker 1: the stock market, oil prices go down and the stock

2870
02:50:34,720 --> 02:50:38,640
Speaker 1: market goes up, and then everyone collectively realizes it's not true,

2871
02:50:38,680 --> 02:50:40,440
Speaker 1: and then the herd animals go back to raising the

2872
02:50:40,440 --> 02:50:44,600
Speaker 1: stock prices. So this leaves us in the same situation

2873
02:50:44,840 --> 02:50:49,080
Speaker 1: we were before, except everything has gotten significantly worse because

2874
02:50:49,120 --> 02:50:53,080
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, Israel hit the largest natural gas field in

2875
02:50:53,160 --> 02:50:57,240
Speaker 1: the world when they attack the Runs South Pars gas field. Now,

2876
02:50:57,280 --> 02:50:59,879
Speaker 1: as political points out, these are the fields that few

2877
02:51:00,360 --> 02:51:03,160
Speaker 1: Iran's domestic energy grade, which means any hit to them

2878
02:51:03,360 --> 02:51:06,400
Speaker 1: is extremely painful because it means that people lose like

2879
02:51:06,520 --> 02:51:11,080
Speaker 1: heat and power. Now, Trump did very quickly make an

2880
02:51:11,120 --> 02:51:14,520
Speaker 1: extremely funny post that is sadly too long to read

2881
02:51:14,560 --> 02:51:17,440
Speaker 1: here begging Iran not to attack Cotter, saying the US

2882
02:51:17,440 --> 02:51:19,080
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about it and that Cotter didn't have

2883
02:51:19,080 --> 02:51:20,640
Speaker 1: anything to do with the strike. There's been a bunch

2884
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:26,120
Speaker 1: of contradictory information. Netanyahu has claimed publicly now that the

2885
02:51:26,280 --> 02:51:29,320
Speaker 1: US didn't know anything about the strike in Israel, you know. Laterally,

2886
02:51:29,400 --> 02:51:31,160
Speaker 1: there's also been reports of the US knew it was

2887
02:51:31,160 --> 02:51:34,640
Speaker 1: going to happen this whole The US didn't know anything

2888
02:51:34,680 --> 02:51:36,920
Speaker 1: about it. Please don't hit Cotter seems to be a

2889
02:51:36,959 --> 02:51:39,680
Speaker 1: kind of pr strategy on their parts. It didn't work.

2890
02:51:39,879 --> 02:51:43,279
Speaker 1: Iran ignored it and retaliated on Thursday by hitting Cotter's

2891
02:51:43,760 --> 02:51:46,280
Speaker 1: massive liquid natural gas processing facility. This is one of

2892
02:51:46,320 --> 02:51:50,240
Speaker 1: the largest facilities in the world for liquid natural gas,

2893
02:51:50,680 --> 02:51:53,640
Speaker 1: of which Cotter is one of the world's largest suppliers.

2894
02:51:54,080 --> 02:51:56,600
Speaker 1: I think they're the second largest of liquid natural gas.

2895
02:51:56,720 --> 02:51:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to read this from Reuter's because this is

2896
02:51:58,640 --> 02:52:00,440
Speaker 1: what the straight laced analysts are saying now.

2897
02:52:00,800 --> 02:52:01,400
Speaker 10: Quote.

2898
02:52:01,640 --> 02:52:04,240
Speaker 1: We are now well on the road to the doomsday

2899
02:52:04,400 --> 02:52:07,959
Speaker 1: gas crisis scenario, said Saul Kavona, can energy analyst at

2900
02:52:08,040 --> 02:52:11,640
Speaker 1: MST Financial. Even once the war ends, the disruption to

2901
02:52:11,720 --> 02:52:15,040
Speaker 1: liquord natural gas supply could last for months or even years.

2902
02:52:16,040 --> 02:52:19,680
Speaker 1: Writers got some statements from Carter State natural gas firm

2903
02:52:20,080 --> 02:52:22,560
Speaker 1: saying that they had lost seventeen percent of their total

2904
02:52:22,600 --> 02:52:24,760
Speaker 1: export capacity and that that was destroyed for three to

2905
02:52:24,840 --> 02:52:30,000
Speaker 1: five years. That is catastrophic for significant parts of the

2906
02:52:30,080 --> 02:52:33,000
Speaker 1: economy worldwide. As we are going to talk about in

2907
02:52:33,000 --> 02:52:35,600
Speaker 1: a second. All of this is also happening in the

2908
02:52:35,600 --> 02:52:38,360
Speaker 1: context of Trump's threats to destroy carg Island, which is

2909
02:52:38,360 --> 02:52:42,160
Speaker 1: where ninety percent of Iran's oil imports flow through, which

2910
02:52:42,200 --> 02:52:47,320
Speaker 1: would likewise be absolutely catastrophic for the Iranian economy because

2911
02:52:47,320 --> 02:52:50,279
Speaker 1: it would take a significant amount of time to repair. However, Comma,

2912
02:52:51,120 --> 02:52:53,959
Speaker 1: these are all kind of empty threats. Well, when I

2913
02:52:53,959 --> 02:52:55,840
Speaker 1: say empty threats. They don't mean that the US or

2914
02:52:55,879 --> 02:52:57,840
Speaker 1: Israel won't do it. I mean that it doesn't solve

2915
02:52:57,840 --> 02:53:00,720
Speaker 1: the problem, because the problem with any threat you can

2916
02:53:00,760 --> 02:53:04,560
Speaker 1: make against Iran is like you already killed the Iya Toola,

2917
02:53:04,640 --> 02:53:06,480
Speaker 1: Like what else are you going to do? Right, you

2918
02:53:06,480 --> 02:53:09,880
Speaker 1: can completely destroy Iran's economic capacity for a significant period

2919
02:53:09,879 --> 02:53:13,560
Speaker 1: of time, But if you do that, then the Iranian

2920
02:53:13,560 --> 02:53:16,400
Speaker 1: government is still just going to not open the strait. Right,

2921
02:53:16,920 --> 02:53:19,120
Speaker 1: the more you attack them, the more incentive they have

2922
02:53:19,200 --> 02:53:21,760
Speaker 1: to continue to retaliate. And that's what's going to happen

2923
02:53:22,120 --> 02:53:24,240
Speaker 1: if you continue this campaign, which it seems like the

2924
02:53:24,320 --> 02:53:26,840
Speaker 1: US and Israel determined to do. They're just holding all

2925
02:53:26,879 --> 02:53:28,800
Speaker 1: this talk about like revenger to do phase of the war,

2926
02:53:28,840 --> 02:53:30,280
Speaker 1: and the war is going to now last like several

2927
02:53:30,280 --> 02:53:33,200
Speaker 1: months longer. And again, the problem here is that the

2928
02:53:33,200 --> 02:53:35,800
Speaker 1: more that you attack critical infrastructure inside Iran, the more

2929
02:53:35,800 --> 02:53:38,039
Speaker 1: that the Iranian government gives less of a shit about

2930
02:53:38,080 --> 02:53:41,560
Speaker 1: again destroying significant portions of the world's natural gas supply,

2931
02:53:41,680 --> 02:53:44,640
Speaker 1: or hitting more oil facilities or you know, and this

2932
02:53:44,680 --> 02:53:46,959
Speaker 1: is the one that I really haven't seen any talk about,

2933
02:53:47,400 --> 02:53:50,640
Speaker 1: but is a thing that Iran could do if they

2934
02:53:50,640 --> 02:53:53,680
Speaker 1: decided that you know, this is like the end for

2935
02:53:53,760 --> 02:53:57,760
Speaker 1: our people is starting to hit desalinization plants in places

2936
02:53:57,800 --> 02:54:01,240
Speaker 1: like the UAE and Cotter, which are i mean, infrastructure

2937
02:54:01,280 --> 02:54:05,840
Speaker 1: that will make the country's uninhabitable. And right now there

2938
02:54:05,840 --> 02:54:08,640
Speaker 1: haven't been any attacks on them because that's a really

2939
02:54:08,720 --> 02:54:10,640
Speaker 1: hideous thing to do, and it's also the sort of

2940
02:54:10,640 --> 02:54:13,480
Speaker 1: absolute last resort. But it's a thing that like, you know,

2941
02:54:13,600 --> 02:54:15,920
Speaker 1: if you keep hitting them, they're going to keep hitting

2942
02:54:15,959 --> 02:54:20,440
Speaker 1: more and more targets that are going to significantly impact

2943
02:54:20,440 --> 02:54:23,720
Speaker 1: the lives of everyone in the region and around the world. Now,

2944
02:54:24,240 --> 02:54:27,640
Speaker 1: on the sort of economics end, we've been kind of

2945
02:54:27,920 --> 02:54:32,240
Speaker 1: in this little bouncing up and down Stace's lock, A

2946
02:54:32,280 --> 02:54:34,920
Speaker 1: little bit of this has been broken because of again

2947
02:54:34,959 --> 02:54:38,520
Speaker 1: we're now seeing instead of just the already very very

2948
02:54:38,560 --> 02:54:41,640
Speaker 1: bad damage of nothing can get to the strait, we're

2949
02:54:41,680 --> 02:54:45,520
Speaker 1: now starting to see permanent damage to oil infrastructure. Right

2950
02:54:46,240 --> 02:54:47,520
Speaker 1: and by the way, it's us as are worth noting

2951
02:54:47,600 --> 02:54:51,240
Speaker 1: Royer's reports that the estimated damage i think both from

2952
02:54:51,280 --> 02:54:54,320
Speaker 1: revenue lost and from to actually repair the facility that

2953
02:54:54,360 --> 02:54:56,480
Speaker 1: Carter State run gas company is talking about, they're talking

2954
02:54:56,520 --> 02:55:00,680
Speaker 1: about twenty billion dollars of damage. This has fine caused

2955
02:55:00,760 --> 02:55:03,040
Speaker 1: a sort of tank in the Asian markets, which are

2956
02:55:03,040 --> 02:55:06,199
Speaker 1: down like around three percent. In a lot of places,

2957
02:55:06,200 --> 02:55:08,000
Speaker 1: we're seeing like somewhere between two to three percent for

2958
02:55:08,080 --> 02:55:11,440
Speaker 1: things like the DK in Japan. We're seeing like one

2959
02:55:11,480 --> 02:55:17,000
Speaker 1: percent down in Shanghai. And you know this is because

2960
02:55:17,120 --> 02:55:20,200
Speaker 1: a lot of these countries, particularly in Asia, use a

2961
02:55:20,360 --> 02:55:25,040
Speaker 1: large quantity of not just oil but also natural gas

2962
02:55:25,080 --> 02:55:27,240
Speaker 1: from the Gulf, which means that these are the countries

2963
02:55:27,280 --> 02:55:30,200
Speaker 1: that are on the front lines of this crisis. Now,

2964
02:55:30,480 --> 02:55:32,640
Speaker 1: the Brink Crude Index, which is your sort of basemark

2965
02:55:32,640 --> 02:55:35,400
Speaker 1: for oil prices, is over one hundred dollars. Now it's

2966
02:55:35,400 --> 02:55:38,160
Speaker 1: staying over one hundred dollars. Experts are saying it's only

2967
02:55:38,200 --> 02:55:40,360
Speaker 1: going to increase, which yes, no shit, of course, it's

2968
02:55:40,360 --> 02:55:42,240
Speaker 1: only going to increase. It's just going to be continued

2969
02:55:42,280 --> 02:55:45,680
Speaker 1: to be more tax I have seen some reporting saying

2970
02:55:45,720 --> 02:55:47,400
Speaker 1: that like, worst case scenario, we could see it at

2971
02:55:47,440 --> 02:55:50,640
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars. Two hundred dollars is like a nightmare,

2972
02:55:51,120 --> 02:55:56,480
Speaker 1: like the nine dollars gasoline. Unbelievable, hideous nightmare. I'm not

2973
02:55:56,520 --> 02:55:58,640
Speaker 1: going to weigh in on whether we're going to get

2974
02:55:58,640 --> 02:56:02,800
Speaker 1: to that point before Trump, like Baiales out of this war,

2975
02:56:03,400 --> 02:56:07,199
Speaker 1: but it's going to continue to go up as both

2976
02:56:07,320 --> 02:56:11,240
Speaker 1: the actual global oil supply is reduced and also as

2977
02:56:11,879 --> 02:56:15,640
Speaker 1: the capacity for a rebound once if this war ends,

2978
02:56:16,600 --> 02:56:20,320
Speaker 1: is decreased by the continued destruction of oil infrastructure. So

2979
02:56:20,879 --> 02:56:24,800
Speaker 1: all in all, things continue to be extremely bad, and

2980
02:56:24,920 --> 02:56:27,720
Speaker 1: the outlook for the global economy is very bad. The

2981
02:56:27,720 --> 02:56:30,240
Speaker 1: outlook for the people of Iran is very bad. The

2982
02:56:30,240 --> 02:56:32,879
Speaker 1: outlook for people across the world is not good.

2983
02:56:34,240 --> 02:56:36,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, miya. And for a final segment, I'm going

2984
02:56:36,920 --> 02:56:41,000
Speaker 3: to talk about the ongoing war against Iran, Yeah, which

2985
02:56:41,040 --> 02:56:43,800
Speaker 3: I guess we're still deciding if it's a war or not.

2986
02:56:44,320 --> 02:56:48,440
Speaker 3: Earlier this week, Donald Trump denied the existence of uncrewed

2987
02:56:48,520 --> 02:56:50,760
Speaker 3: surface vessels, something Garrison and I talked about in the

2988
02:56:50,800 --> 02:56:54,760
Speaker 3: podcast that came out earlier this week. I'm just going

2989
02:56:54,840 --> 02:56:56,039
Speaker 3: to pay you the clip.

2990
02:56:57,240 --> 02:57:01,000
Speaker 6: So they put out phone and furnish during the Mkazi boats.

2991
02:57:01,360 --> 02:57:05,640
Speaker 6: The comic Kazi boats don't exist. They're fake and you

2992
02:57:05,680 --> 02:57:07,520
Speaker 6: can almost see that when you look at them. You

2993
02:57:07,600 --> 02:57:10,680
Speaker 6: look sam, yeah, because if they did exist, we'd hit

2994
02:57:10,760 --> 02:57:13,160
Speaker 6: them just like we hit other boats all over the place.

2995
02:57:13,640 --> 02:57:15,720
Speaker 6: But they don't exist. In fact, some of the people

2996
02:57:15,800 --> 02:57:18,640
Speaker 6: say where are the boats? Well, how come nobody see

2997
02:57:18,680 --> 02:57:19,000
Speaker 6: the boats?

2998
02:57:19,160 --> 02:57:21,199
Speaker 10: You know why? Because it's AI generated.

2999
02:57:21,720 --> 02:57:24,560
Speaker 6: It's fake and I found it, realized this before they

3000
02:57:24,680 --> 02:57:28,400
Speaker 6: we started. But Iran is known for a lot of

3001
02:57:28,400 --> 02:57:31,680
Speaker 6: fake news, and they deal with our fake news. And

3002
02:57:31,760 --> 02:57:36,960
Speaker 6: I actually think it's pretty criminal because our media companies,

3003
02:57:36,959 --> 02:57:42,160
Speaker 6: who have no credibility whatsoever, are putting out information that they.

3004
02:57:42,040 --> 02:57:46,920
Speaker 3: Know is foll Yeah. So uncrewed safesce vessels are real.

3005
02:57:47,120 --> 02:57:47,960
Speaker 8: Yes, they sure are.

3006
02:57:48,000 --> 02:57:51,920
Speaker 2: They've been used massively in Ukraine among other places.

3007
02:57:52,600 --> 02:57:54,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, rob it would you like to hear

3008
02:57:54,840 --> 02:57:59,760
Speaker 3: about Saint com Commander Admiral Brad Cooper talking about uncrewed

3009
02:58:00,160 --> 02:58:00,800
Speaker 3: his vessels.

3010
02:58:00,879 --> 02:58:03,360
Speaker 2: I will always listen to someone named Brad James. You

3011
02:58:03,400 --> 02:58:04,039
Speaker 2: know that about me?

3012
02:58:04,200 --> 02:58:04,760
Speaker 3: Okay? Yeah.

3013
02:58:05,440 --> 02:58:07,600
Speaker 2: Here you see a photo from March first of a

3014
02:58:07,680 --> 02:58:10,640
Speaker 2: naval drone storage facility located near the Strait of Hoar.

3015
02:58:10,640 --> 02:58:14,560
Speaker 3: Moves, so as you can see naval drones uncrewed surface vessels.

3016
02:58:15,240 --> 02:58:19,040
Speaker 3: This is going to be an issue in this conflict

3017
02:58:19,800 --> 02:58:23,600
Speaker 3: and many others going forward. People are going to deny

3018
02:58:23,680 --> 02:58:26,240
Speaker 3: any reality that they don't want to engage with by

3019
02:58:26,280 --> 02:58:29,920
Speaker 3: saying that it is AI yep, and that's deeply troubling.

3020
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:34,120
Speaker 3: So let's talk about what has been happening since we

3021
02:58:34,200 --> 02:58:37,039
Speaker 3: last spoke. Hag Island and no, only did the Persian

3022
02:58:37,080 --> 02:58:42,599
Speaker 3: Gulf that is replete with oil infrastructure and storage facilities,

3023
02:58:42,760 --> 02:58:45,959
Speaker 3: it's the island throughach a large amount of Iran's oil

3024
02:58:46,040 --> 02:58:47,199
Speaker 3: exports ravel.

3025
02:58:47,680 --> 02:58:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a basically, so the most of the coast

3026
02:58:50,720 --> 02:58:54,160
Speaker 2: of Iran is too shallow for the huge vessels that

3027
02:58:54,240 --> 02:58:58,120
Speaker 2: are necessary to actually move crude oil and carg Island

3028
02:58:58,280 --> 02:59:01,280
Speaker 2: is like a very rare deep on port basically, so

3029
02:59:01,600 --> 02:59:02,680
Speaker 2: it's kind of the hub.

3030
02:59:03,000 --> 02:59:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was struck by the United States last weekend

3031
02:59:05,520 --> 02:59:08,879
Speaker 3: of raid the plane that the raid only hit oil

3032
02:59:08,959 --> 02:59:12,879
Speaker 3: infrastructure on Kyleg Island. It's very hard to get any

3033
02:59:13,040 --> 02:59:18,800
Speaker 3: independent information from Iran currently because of blackouts, because of

3034
02:59:18,840 --> 02:59:22,040
Speaker 3: the lack of connectivity, and because of ratiome oppression. Right,

3035
02:59:22,080 --> 02:59:24,760
Speaker 3: So we just it's quite possible that what the US

3036
02:59:24,840 --> 02:59:26,600
Speaker 3: is saying is not true. It's also quite possible what

3037
02:59:26,600 --> 02:59:28,680
Speaker 3: the Iranian state is saying is not true. We can

3038
02:59:28,720 --> 02:59:31,920
Speaker 3: confirm that there were strikes there using all kinds of

3039
02:59:31,920 --> 02:59:34,600
Speaker 3: information by satellite imagery, open source flight threatening, et cetera.

3040
02:59:34,680 --> 02:59:39,160
Speaker 3: That strikes definitely happened. Strikes this week by the IDF

3041
02:59:39,800 --> 02:59:46,320
Speaker 3: also killed Ali Larijani and basiege unit Commada Hola Moreza Solemoni.

3042
02:59:46,800 --> 02:59:50,280
Speaker 3: Shortly after these claims first surfaced, a note was published

3043
02:59:50,280 --> 02:59:55,400
Speaker 3: in Lara Johanni's handwriting. But it is fairly certain now

3044
02:59:55,400 --> 02:59:59,560
Speaker 3: that he is dead. Larijani's assassination, I guess or killing

3045
02:59:59,600 --> 03:00:02,760
Speaker 3: one of your call it by the IDF is notable

3046
03:00:02,920 --> 03:00:06,040
Speaker 3: because he's one of the people who would have had

3047
03:00:06,120 --> 03:00:10,560
Speaker 3: the sway in the regime to negotiate with the United States.

3048
03:00:11,320 --> 03:00:16,680
Speaker 3: You could make a case that the IDF killing him

3049
03:00:17,120 --> 03:00:20,480
Speaker 3: is a way for a negotiated piece to be even harder,

3050
03:00:21,160 --> 03:00:25,039
Speaker 3: for this conflict to continue even more. He is also

3051
03:00:25,080 --> 03:00:27,920
Speaker 3: a person who is responsible for massive crimes against the

3052
03:00:27,959 --> 03:00:33,640
Speaker 3: citizens of Iran, right including the violent, murderous clampdown on

3053
03:00:33,680 --> 03:00:37,200
Speaker 3: protests that we saw in January of this year. The

3054
03:00:37,320 --> 03:00:41,560
Speaker 3: United States is also deploying the thirty first Marine Expeditionary

3055
03:00:41,879 --> 03:00:44,680
Speaker 3: Unit to the Middle East as part of an amphibious

3056
03:00:44,720 --> 03:00:50,000
Speaker 3: response group that includes the USS Tripoly. In fact, it's

3057
03:00:50,240 --> 03:00:54,720
Speaker 3: approximately twenty five hundred marines who will be deployed. This

3058
03:00:54,920 --> 03:00:58,560
Speaker 3: is the closest we've seen twenty official communication of United

3059
03:00:58,600 --> 03:01:01,959
Speaker 3: States boots on the ground in the region. There's a

3060
03:01:02,040 --> 03:01:06,080
Speaker 3: number of things that a marine expedition unit could do.

3061
03:01:06,879 --> 03:01:08,879
Speaker 3: One of them is to do search and rescue or

3062
03:01:08,879 --> 03:01:12,039
Speaker 3: provide evacuations for people on vessels in the straight of

3063
03:01:12,040 --> 03:01:15,760
Speaker 3: horn moves that are struck right. Another of them is

3064
03:01:15,800 --> 03:01:20,760
Speaker 3: to assault or take islands where Iran may have based

3065
03:01:20,800 --> 03:01:25,119
Speaker 3: its military infrastructure, so to do things that are either

3066
03:01:25,160 --> 03:01:29,800
Speaker 3: not possible or not easy with air strikes. Another one

3067
03:01:29,879 --> 03:01:32,240
Speaker 3: is to add more air power that's closer to the

3068
03:01:32,320 --> 03:01:35,680
Speaker 3: region that the Tripoli can carry their thirty five lightnings,

3069
03:01:36,160 --> 03:01:39,000
Speaker 3: So it could be that. Another one is for these

3070
03:01:39,200 --> 03:01:43,440
Speaker 3: two thy five hundred marines to invade Iran, right and

3071
03:01:43,879 --> 03:01:48,680
Speaker 3: to begin a land war to attempt to They could

3072
03:01:48,720 --> 03:01:52,240
Speaker 3: also be training Iranian opposition groups, right that that's possible.

3073
03:01:52,240 --> 03:01:55,640
Speaker 3: It wouldn't. It's not like a core Marine Corps mission,

3074
03:01:55,840 --> 03:01:59,280
Speaker 3: but there's a Special Forces mission. But there's a number

3075
03:01:59,360 --> 03:02:01,680
Speaker 3: of things it can be doing. There are also a

3076
03:02:01,800 --> 03:02:05,600
Speaker 3: number of more marine expeditionary units and other forces that

3077
03:02:05,680 --> 03:02:08,480
Speaker 3: could be moved to the region. It's interesting to see

3078
03:02:08,520 --> 03:02:10,480
Speaker 3: this just a few months after we saw that National

3079
03:02:10,480 --> 03:02:16,440
Speaker 3: Security strategy which focused heavily on the Western hemisphere. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, right,

3080
03:02:16,480 --> 03:02:18,440
Speaker 3: the US isn't going to involve its OLM Forever Wars

3081
03:02:18,440 --> 03:02:19,359
Speaker 3: in the release anymore.

3082
03:02:19,480 --> 03:02:20,320
Speaker 4: I can't believe it.

3083
03:02:20,800 --> 03:02:21,680
Speaker 3: Yeah shocking.

3084
03:02:22,000 --> 03:02:23,920
Speaker 4: What's the status of these marines right now?

3085
03:02:24,600 --> 03:02:27,800
Speaker 3: I believe they are motoring who the region? Right? So

3086
03:02:28,480 --> 03:02:32,119
Speaker 3: TRIPLEY is a big boat. It's called an amphibious assault boat.

3087
03:02:32,120 --> 03:02:34,480
Speaker 3: But that makes it sound like it's like a Higgins boat.

3088
03:02:34,560 --> 03:02:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, like if this is not the boat that

3089
03:02:36,840 --> 03:02:39,400
Speaker 3: you see in the d DA movement. Okay, in fact,

3090
03:02:39,440 --> 03:02:42,360
Speaker 3: I don't think it can actually have this particular one

3091
03:02:42,360 --> 03:02:45,879
Speaker 3: if I understand correctly, doesn't carry those kinds of boats,

3092
03:02:45,879 --> 03:02:48,560
Speaker 3: Like it's not set up for doing like a beach

3093
03:02:48,680 --> 03:02:52,560
Speaker 3: landing and Amphoebius assault. But these marine expeditioning units are

3094
03:02:52,560 --> 03:02:56,279
Speaker 3: like the like the first response, I guess, like they

3095
03:02:56,360 --> 03:02:59,560
Speaker 3: have their own air power, they have helicopters. Yeah, obviously

3096
03:02:59,560 --> 03:03:01,560
Speaker 3: they come on a boat. They can move quite quickly.

3097
03:03:01,640 --> 03:03:04,440
Speaker 3: They have the marine so capable of doing infantry stuff.

3098
03:03:04,800 --> 03:03:06,560
Speaker 3: So like it makes sense that this would be what

3099
03:03:06,600 --> 03:03:10,480
Speaker 3: they would sayd talking of US forces in the region.

3100
03:03:10,720 --> 03:03:14,160
Speaker 3: A US case one pint thirty five aircraft crashed over

3101
03:03:14,200 --> 03:03:16,920
Speaker 3: Iraq last week. This is not a combat aircraft, right,

3102
03:03:16,959 --> 03:03:20,039
Speaker 3: it's not another a fighter bomber. But to my knowledge,

3103
03:03:20,080 --> 03:03:23,360
Speaker 3: the only way out of these planes is bailing, and

3104
03:03:23,400 --> 03:03:25,920
Speaker 3: all six crew members on board are confirmed to have died.

3105
03:03:26,920 --> 03:03:30,080
Speaker 3: The United States SAT Consas has flown over six thousand

3106
03:03:30,200 --> 03:03:32,680
Speaker 3: sorties since OEF began.

3107
03:03:33,000 --> 03:03:35,920
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, there's Operation Epic Fury.

3108
03:03:36,320 --> 03:03:39,560
Speaker 3: Yeah it's great because Operation During Freedom had the same acronym,

3109
03:03:39,600 --> 03:03:41,560
Speaker 3: and I'm sure it's not a mistake. But yeah, this

3110
03:03:41,600 --> 03:03:45,520
Speaker 3: is Operation Epic Fury. It's a very high tempo, right,

3111
03:03:45,600 --> 03:03:49,840
Speaker 3: and it's a very crowded airspace. The six thousand sorties yeap, Yeah,

3112
03:03:49,879 --> 03:03:53,360
Speaker 3: that's a lot. Yeah, accidents like this will happen, right,

3113
03:03:53,680 --> 03:03:56,880
Speaker 3: Not everybody who dies in warfare dies in combat. And thirdly,

3114
03:03:56,920 --> 03:03:59,520
Speaker 3: this means that another six people are coming home from

3115
03:03:59,560 --> 03:04:05,520
Speaker 3: Iraqi coffins as they have been since before. Many of

3116
03:04:05,520 --> 03:04:07,720
Speaker 3: our listeners who were born and of course a lot

3117
03:04:07,760 --> 03:04:10,080
Speaker 3: of people in Iraq who have no quarrel with anyone

3118
03:04:10,080 --> 03:04:12,920
Speaker 3: that will also be innocent victims of this. I don't mean,

3119
03:04:12,959 --> 03:04:16,199
Speaker 3: by any means to suggest it's only US service people

3120
03:04:16,200 --> 03:04:18,640
Speaker 3: who are the victims. Here. I want to talk about

3121
03:04:18,640 --> 03:04:21,840
Speaker 3: the conflict between the United States and Hashda Shabi. The

3122
03:04:21,959 --> 03:04:24,720
Speaker 3: US has carried out a series of air strikes against

3123
03:04:24,760 --> 03:04:29,560
Speaker 3: PMF groups, so these are popular mobilization forces for Shia

3124
03:04:29,840 --> 03:04:35,200
Speaker 3: groups in Iran for the Islamic State. A strike on

3125
03:04:35,240 --> 03:04:38,320
Speaker 3: a house in Baghdad killed the leader of Katib Hasbola

3126
03:04:38,400 --> 03:04:41,600
Speaker 3: in a Raq. The strike was confirmed on Sabrine News.

3127
03:04:41,600 --> 03:04:46,240
Speaker 3: Sabrine News is like their telegram outlet. It's like an

3128
03:04:46,240 --> 03:04:50,560
Speaker 3: aligned telegram news outlet for the group. Yeah, for the PMF,

3129
03:04:51,200 --> 03:04:53,640
Speaker 3: and they made the statement quote, we announced you the

3130
03:04:53,680 --> 03:04:58,160
Speaker 3: martyrdom of hajj Abu Ali al Askari. In the days

3131
03:04:58,200 --> 03:05:02,080
Speaker 3: since he's killing, we have I've seen many attacks on

3132
03:05:02,280 --> 03:05:07,320
Speaker 3: United States facilities in it Rut. The embassy's cram CRAM

3133
03:05:07,680 --> 03:05:12,560
Speaker 3: is counter rocket artillery and mortar. When you see videos

3134
03:05:12,720 --> 03:05:15,879
Speaker 3: of drones being shot down, when you see like a

3135
03:05:15,959 --> 03:05:18,200
Speaker 3: you hear like a runt and then you see a

3136
03:05:18,200 --> 03:05:20,440
Speaker 3: burst of like tracer fire and the drone explodes, it's

3137
03:05:20,440 --> 03:05:23,760
Speaker 3: normally the c RAM, So the embassy cram egaz and

3138
03:05:23,879 --> 03:05:28,320
Speaker 3: is destroyed drone. But other footage posted online shows an

3139
03:05:28,400 --> 03:05:32,440
Speaker 3: FPV drone that's the first person view drone FPV drone.

3140
03:05:32,440 --> 03:05:34,440
Speaker 3: It looks like you're flying as opposed to like you're

3141
03:05:34,440 --> 03:05:38,680
Speaker 3: looking directly down flying over the embassy compound for almost

3142
03:05:38,800 --> 03:05:46,720
Speaker 3: two minutes. I'm guessing it was a fiber optic controlled drone, right,

3143
03:05:46,760 --> 03:05:49,879
Speaker 3: so there's no means of like jamming the signal, but

3144
03:05:50,200 --> 03:05:55,720
Speaker 3: this is still a monumental failure for security. Right. At

3145
03:05:55,720 --> 03:05:58,360
Speaker 3: the same time, we saw two drones at least enter

3146
03:05:58,560 --> 03:06:02,120
Speaker 3: and explode in the Victory Base, which is near Baghdad Airport.

3147
03:06:02,720 --> 03:06:04,720
Speaker 3: The videos from those are bizarre. It seems like the

3148
03:06:04,800 --> 03:06:08,160
Speaker 3: drone gets into the base and then it's just like whoa,

3149
03:06:08,240 --> 03:06:09,879
Speaker 3: what the hell, Like it didn't seem like they had

3150
03:06:09,879 --> 03:06:11,680
Speaker 3: a clear target. It kind of flies around and like

3151
03:06:11,720 --> 03:06:14,080
Speaker 3: seems so shocked that it was able to penetrate this

3152
03:06:14,520 --> 03:06:17,280
Speaker 3: supposedly impenetrable area.

3153
03:06:17,640 --> 03:06:20,920
Speaker 4: How much of these security systems are designed to counter

3154
03:06:21,160 --> 03:06:24,840
Speaker 4: drones versus originally designed to counter older types of like

3155
03:06:25,080 --> 03:06:26,160
Speaker 4: aerial threats.

3156
03:06:26,600 --> 03:06:29,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, drones is a broad category, I guess. So you

3157
03:06:29,879 --> 03:06:32,800
Speaker 3: have like your Shahed drone, which kind of blurs the

3158
03:06:32,840 --> 03:06:34,959
Speaker 3: line between a drone and a missile, right, It's like

3159
03:06:35,000 --> 03:06:38,560
Speaker 3: a missile that can take a more varied flight path. Yeah, yeah,

3160
03:06:38,560 --> 03:06:40,840
Speaker 3: it doesn't just don't go in the arc like ballistically.

3161
03:06:41,520 --> 03:06:43,560
Speaker 3: In those cases there are things that there are things

3162
03:06:43,560 --> 03:06:45,640
Speaker 3: that you can do to shoot them down. Right, you

3163
03:06:45,680 --> 03:06:48,160
Speaker 3: can have your Patriot missiles, you can use of see RAM,

3164
03:06:48,240 --> 03:06:51,280
Speaker 3: you can shoot them down with various weapon systems on

3165
03:06:51,320 --> 03:06:55,320
Speaker 3: an aircraft. But if we group FPV and like drop

3166
03:06:55,320 --> 03:06:59,760
Speaker 3: A drones as commercial office shelf drones, this is the thing, right,

3167
03:07:00,160 --> 03:07:04,560
Speaker 3: you know, the United States has been supporting Ukraine since

3168
03:07:04,640 --> 03:07:07,520
Speaker 3: twenty one, since before twenty twenty two, but it's including

3169
03:07:07,560 --> 03:07:10,760
Speaker 3: since twenty twenty two with the false galvation. It has

3170
03:07:10,840 --> 03:07:14,560
Speaker 3: not been supporting the revolution in the Ammar. But clearly

3171
03:07:15,440 --> 03:07:18,280
Speaker 3: they have not learned enough from those two conflicts, right

3172
03:07:18,360 --> 03:07:20,800
Speaker 3: in terms of the use of these small commercial off

3173
03:07:20,840 --> 03:07:26,360
Speaker 3: the shelf drones, And this is now showing up as

3174
03:07:26,360 --> 03:07:30,360
Speaker 3: a weakness in their defense strategy. Like this is a

3175
03:07:30,400 --> 03:07:33,680
Speaker 3: serious thing for the US government for someone to be

3176
03:07:34,360 --> 03:07:38,080
Speaker 3: and for them to just fly a recondrone over the embassy,

3177
03:07:38,080 --> 03:07:42,119
Speaker 3: obviously they now know where everything is, and for them

3178
03:07:42,160 --> 03:07:47,440
Speaker 3: to publish that footage is like a public somewhat like humiliation, right,

3179
03:07:48,080 --> 03:07:52,879
Speaker 3: the sort of security infrastructure. So finally, I guess a

3180
03:07:52,879 --> 03:07:55,640
Speaker 3: couple more things. Iran is now militarizing the area of

3181
03:07:55,720 --> 03:08:01,160
Speaker 3: Kurdistan between the Iranian and Iraqi states. So that's the

3182
03:08:01,200 --> 03:08:05,039
Speaker 3: Iran Iraq border in kurdis Dan. Right, it seems to

3183
03:08:05,080 --> 03:08:08,160
Speaker 3: have issued orders preventing people moving around the region as

3184
03:08:08,200 --> 03:08:12,000
Speaker 3: they habitually. Would people move around because they've always moved around.

3185
03:08:12,080 --> 03:08:16,840
Speaker 3: People move around with their animals, right. The Iranian government

3186
03:08:16,840 --> 03:08:19,320
Speaker 3: appears to have ordered its troops to shoot people who

3187
03:08:19,480 --> 03:08:23,640
Speaker 3: perceived to be moving around without permission. People often gather

3188
03:08:23,800 --> 03:08:26,720
Speaker 3: near the border with a ruck to access cell signal,

3189
03:08:27,280 --> 03:08:30,800
Speaker 3: and the government forces appear to have left their bases

3190
03:08:30,840 --> 03:08:33,160
Speaker 3: in the region in favor of occupying the mountains as

3191
03:08:33,160 --> 03:08:36,400
Speaker 3: well as local educational institutions and sports facilities. Right, So

3192
03:08:36,480 --> 03:08:38,760
Speaker 3: that means that people in town are now its threat,

3193
03:08:39,600 --> 03:08:42,560
Speaker 3: and Hengar has some incidents where people have been shot

3194
03:08:42,640 --> 03:08:47,600
Speaker 3: by security forces in that region. Finally, then I want

3195
03:08:47,640 --> 03:08:51,320
Speaker 3: to talk about the resignation of the director of the

3196
03:08:51,440 --> 03:08:57,680
Speaker 3: National Countess Terrorism Center, Joe Kent. Kent resigned this week saying, quote,

3197
03:08:57,760 --> 03:09:01,560
Speaker 3: Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation. It does

3198
03:09:01,600 --> 03:09:03,800
Speaker 3: seem that that is where a lot of people stopped

3199
03:09:03,879 --> 03:09:06,920
Speaker 3: reading anything. Kent said, Yeah, are people who did not

3200
03:09:07,120 --> 03:09:10,279
Speaker 3: know who Joe Kent is, right, and don't have access

3201
03:09:10,280 --> 03:09:13,840
Speaker 3: to Google for reasons that I don't understand. Yeah, yeah,

3202
03:09:13,959 --> 03:09:18,360
Speaker 3: some really incredibly shitty reporting on this. Kent went on

3203
03:09:18,680 --> 03:09:24,279
Speaker 3: in his note to among other things, talk about the

3204
03:09:24,320 --> 03:09:28,160
Speaker 3: death of his wife, which is genuinely tragic. Kent has

3205
03:09:28,200 --> 03:09:31,960
Speaker 3: some disgusting views, right, Like, but it does seem that

3206
03:09:32,000 --> 03:09:34,520
Speaker 3: the death of his wife was kind of a I guess,

3207
03:09:34,520 --> 03:09:36,280
Speaker 3: a turning point. It's a fair to say, yeah, like

3208
03:09:36,520 --> 03:09:39,360
Speaker 3: you've looked at Kent a lot, like in his politics.

3209
03:09:39,360 --> 03:09:41,440
Speaker 4: He talks about it a lot. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's

3210
03:09:41,560 --> 03:09:43,080
Speaker 4: very load bearing for him.

3211
03:09:43,200 --> 03:09:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's just with people aren't aware. His wife, Shannon,

3212
03:09:45,760 --> 03:09:50,160
Speaker 3: was a cryptologist and linguist attacked to the ISA intelligence

3213
03:09:50,200 --> 03:09:54,200
Speaker 3: support activity sometimes called Task Force Orange. She was in

3214
03:09:54,280 --> 03:09:57,400
Speaker 3: Mambies in Syria when she was killed by in Islamic

3215
03:09:57,440 --> 03:10:00,600
Speaker 3: State suicide bomber. She was in the buffer zone that

3216
03:10:00,600 --> 03:10:04,800
Speaker 3: that was like the buffer that Turkey had forced to exist.

3217
03:10:05,280 --> 03:10:08,680
Speaker 3: He calls that in his resignation statement quote a war

3218
03:10:08,760 --> 03:10:12,320
Speaker 3: manufactured by Israel, and he also seems to suggest that

3219
03:10:12,360 --> 03:10:15,640
Speaker 3: Trump was conned by Israel into starting the war with Iran.

3220
03:10:16,440 --> 03:10:18,840
Speaker 3: Far too much reporting has missed this context, so he's

3221
03:10:18,920 --> 03:10:22,840
Speaker 3: essentially using what, on the face of it is an

3222
03:10:22,840 --> 03:10:24,920
Speaker 3: anti submit like saying, I mean, yeah he.

3223
03:10:25,120 --> 03:10:29,039
Speaker 4: He like is he is like an anti Semitic fascist, Yes.

3224
03:10:29,080 --> 03:10:32,480
Speaker 3: His reason for retiring is like explicitally anti Semitic.

3225
03:10:32,520 --> 03:10:34,960
Speaker 4: This like yeah, this is the same justification that someone

3226
03:10:34,959 --> 03:10:38,080
Speaker 4: like Nick Quentes uses to oppose the war in Iran.

3227
03:10:38,680 --> 03:10:42,920
Speaker 4: Not out of you know, principled solidarity. These people don't

3228
03:10:42,920 --> 03:10:46,680
Speaker 4: care about civilians dying in Iran. No, And it's not

3229
03:10:46,720 --> 03:10:50,600
Speaker 4: actually about any sort of like notion of anti imperialism.

3230
03:10:50,720 --> 03:10:51,840
Speaker 3: No, it's anti Semitism.

3231
03:10:52,320 --> 03:10:56,720
Speaker 4: They believe that this is a Zionist occupied government in

3232
03:10:56,800 --> 03:10:59,920
Speaker 4: the zog meaning of the term, like there's like a

3233
03:11:00,480 --> 03:11:05,039
Speaker 4: literally literally like a total Jewish control over all state operations,

3234
03:11:05,440 --> 03:11:10,480
Speaker 4: not linked to actual lobbying groups that lobby for Israel

3235
03:11:10,560 --> 03:11:16,160
Speaker 4: within the United States, but conspiratorial framework invoking anti Semitic

3236
03:11:16,120 --> 03:11:18,840
Speaker 4: tropes and stereotypes. This is the sort of it army

3237
03:11:18,879 --> 03:11:21,320
Speaker 4: that Joe Kent comes out of. As we are recording this,

3238
03:11:21,680 --> 03:11:24,800
Speaker 4: Joe Kent has an interview dropping with Tucker Carlson, Yes,

3239
03:11:24,920 --> 03:11:29,199
Speaker 4: where he's going to expound on this. Carlson has similarly

3240
03:11:29,480 --> 03:11:34,840
Speaker 4: voiced these sorts of objections based on if any intelligent

3241
03:11:34,879 --> 03:11:38,320
Speaker 4: person you know reads into it based on anti Semitism,

3242
03:11:38,360 --> 03:11:43,640
Speaker 4: not actually based on again principled solidarity with oppressed people's

3243
03:11:43,879 --> 03:11:45,519
Speaker 4: or anti imperialism.

3244
03:11:46,440 --> 03:11:49,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think if you're reading new sources like

3245
03:11:49,320 --> 03:11:51,360
Speaker 3: oh wow, Trump is beginning to lose people and they

3246
03:11:51,360 --> 03:11:54,040
Speaker 3: have mention any of this, really consider if you want

3247
03:11:54,080 --> 03:11:56,600
Speaker 3: to be reading those news sources. I'll just say that,

3248
03:11:56,760 --> 03:12:00,480
Speaker 3: I guess. Caroline Levitt responded with a post on X quote.

3249
03:12:00,520 --> 03:12:02,640
Speaker 3: The Commander in chief determines what does and does not

3250
03:12:02,680 --> 03:12:05,520
Speaker 3: constitute a threat because he is the only one constitutionally

3251
03:12:05,560 --> 03:12:08,119
Speaker 3: empowered to do so, and because the American people went

3252
03:12:08,160 --> 03:12:10,720
Speaker 3: to the ballot box and it trusted him and him

3253
03:12:10,720 --> 03:12:14,440
Speaker 3: alone to make such final judgments. That is a remarkable

3254
03:12:14,480 --> 03:12:16,560
Speaker 3: statement for those of us who lived through the whole

3255
03:12:17,040 --> 03:12:21,119
Speaker 3: Iraq has WNDS era. But the United States has long

3256
03:12:21,240 --> 03:12:23,920
Speaker 3: history of involvement in the Middle East, and yes, the

3257
03:12:23,959 --> 03:12:26,200
Speaker 3: extent to which we are partnering with Israel is often

3258
03:12:26,320 --> 03:12:29,560
Speaker 3: in support of our other objectives in the Middle East

3259
03:12:29,720 --> 03:12:32,280
Speaker 3: and our ability to use Israel as like a proxy state.

3260
03:12:32,400 --> 03:12:36,280
Speaker 3: That's why the Unitedate government has such a large interest

3261
03:12:36,800 --> 03:12:41,240
Speaker 3: in Israel. Is we have other reasons for wanting to

3262
03:12:41,240 --> 03:12:44,520
Speaker 3: be active and control parts of the region or influence

3263
03:12:44,560 --> 03:12:48,720
Speaker 3: the region. Yeah, often the priorities of Israel not always right,

3264
03:12:48,760 --> 03:12:51,880
Speaker 3: like in the first time the United States invaded the

3265
03:12:51,920 --> 03:12:55,200
Speaker 3: Persian Gulf. That often they are fighting alongside each other

3266
03:12:55,240 --> 03:12:57,920
Speaker 3: because they have similar interest not because of any nefarious

3267
03:12:58,360 --> 03:13:02,680
Speaker 3: Jewish conspiracy. Yeah, yep, which.

3268
03:13:02,680 --> 03:13:04,760
Speaker 4: Very frustrating that continues to be something that needs to

3269
03:13:04,760 --> 03:13:05,520
Speaker 4: be reiterated.

3270
03:13:05,680 --> 03:13:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, even on the left, but it does.

3271
03:13:07,920 --> 03:13:10,960
Speaker 2: And the first time I started seeing people who had

3272
03:13:11,240 --> 03:13:15,600
Speaker 2: previously been doing other campus ships start using the phrase zog,

3273
03:13:15,760 --> 03:13:18,000
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, we've come, We've come full circle.

3274
03:13:18,120 --> 03:13:21,519
Speaker 2: Everything's where it was always going to be beautiful.

3275
03:13:21,879 --> 03:13:26,879
Speaker 4: The normalization of zog and like goy across parts of

3276
03:13:26,920 --> 03:13:27,840
Speaker 4: the online left.

3277
03:13:27,680 --> 03:13:31,440
Speaker 2: Is from anarchistparian of the new Turks, the Young Turks

3278
03:13:31,440 --> 03:13:32,840
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck the ty t they.

3279
03:13:32,720 --> 03:13:36,039
Speaker 3: Call them, the young has fallen. Yeah, well let's yeah,

3280
03:13:36,120 --> 03:13:39,840
Speaker 3: let let's be honest. Choosing that name didn't predispose them

3281
03:13:39,840 --> 03:13:41,320
Speaker 3: to the anti genocide.

3282
03:13:41,520 --> 03:13:44,600
Speaker 2: She has always been like that, she's sucked for a while,

3283
03:13:44,680 --> 03:13:47,040
Speaker 2: but just seeing her use the fray the word GOI

3284
03:13:47,280 --> 03:13:48,160
Speaker 2: like that was like.

3285
03:13:48,200 --> 03:13:50,279
Speaker 3: Whoa wow, Yeah, I haven't seen it, Okay.

3286
03:13:50,959 --> 03:13:52,959
Speaker 2: I used to have to go to Telegram to see

3287
03:13:53,000 --> 03:13:54,600
Speaker 2: people boasting ship like that.

3288
03:13:54,680 --> 03:13:56,640
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's sort of shit. You would

3289
03:13:56,640 --> 03:14:00,359
Speaker 3: hear like ham radio, Like it's just like old school racism. Yeah.

3290
03:14:00,480 --> 03:14:03,880
Speaker 4: No, there is this interesting emergence of like a red

3291
03:14:03,879 --> 03:14:10,480
Speaker 4: brown alliance specifically targeting like Israel or people's notions of

3292
03:14:10,640 --> 03:14:12,119
Speaker 4: Israel's global influence.

3293
03:14:12,760 --> 03:14:15,360
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah no, great, no, great stuff a tool.

3294
03:14:16,280 --> 03:14:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we should just say, since this is going

3295
03:14:20,080 --> 03:14:22,560
Speaker 2: to be one of the big news stories this week

3296
03:14:22,600 --> 03:14:24,959
Speaker 2: and coming into next week, the New York Times has

3297
03:14:25,000 --> 03:14:30,560
Speaker 2: published a in article with very extensive sourcing, including from

3298
03:14:30,600 --> 03:14:35,360
Speaker 2: people very close to Cesser Chavez, who reported that he

3299
03:14:35,600 --> 03:14:41,440
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted, raped, molested an abused mix of girls and women,

3300
03:14:41,560 --> 03:14:45,720
Speaker 2: including a lot of girls preteen girls, started grooming them

3301
03:14:45,760 --> 03:14:48,320
Speaker 2: as young as eight or nine. In some cases, there's

3302
03:14:48,360 --> 03:14:51,119
Speaker 2: evidence of molestation of girls as young as like twelve thirteen.

3303
03:14:51,879 --> 03:14:55,760
Speaker 2: And then Deloresuerta, who was very famously one of his

3304
03:14:55,879 --> 03:14:58,840
Speaker 2: organizing partners for quite a long time, came out and

3305
03:14:58,840 --> 03:15:01,119
Speaker 2: said that he's sexually assault to her on at least

3306
03:15:01,200 --> 03:15:04,680
Speaker 2: raped her on at least two occasions, which led to pregnancies.

3307
03:15:05,360 --> 03:15:07,879
Speaker 2: So that is all coming out now and it's all

3308
03:15:07,920 --> 03:15:11,720
Speaker 2: pretty horrific. But yeah, I like, there's not much more

3309
03:15:11,800 --> 03:15:16,119
Speaker 2: to say. You can read the article, yeah, and should Yeah.

3310
03:15:16,240 --> 03:15:18,880
Speaker 3: I will link to finish shure it. If you'd like

3311
03:15:18,959 --> 03:15:22,560
Speaker 3: to email us, you can send a message to cool

3312
03:15:22,680 --> 03:15:24,480
Speaker 3: Zone Tips at proton dot me.

3313
03:15:25,160 --> 03:15:28,360
Speaker 4: That's for tips, that's for news gathering tips.

3314
03:15:28,760 --> 03:15:33,560
Speaker 3: Yes, it is for It is not for you to

3315
03:15:33,640 --> 03:15:36,760
Speaker 3: pitch your boss to come on Robert's podcast. It is

3316
03:15:36,800 --> 03:15:39,360
Speaker 3: not for you to tell us about your new book.

3317
03:15:39,920 --> 03:15:43,400
Speaker 3: It is not for you to share how much you

3318
03:15:43,720 --> 03:15:47,480
Speaker 3: enjoy a podcast. So that's very sweet. If you want

3319
03:15:47,480 --> 03:15:50,280
Speaker 3: to send that kind of stuff, you can do it

3320
03:15:50,320 --> 03:15:54,640
Speaker 3: to cool Zone mediaiheartmedia dot com. If you, as a

3321
03:15:54,640 --> 03:15:58,480
Speaker 3: public relations company, send a large number of emails to

3322
03:15:58,560 --> 03:16:00,560
Speaker 3: our tips list, I will block you.

3323
03:16:00,640 --> 03:16:01,440
Speaker 2: I will find you.

3324
03:16:01,760 --> 03:16:06,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not believe me, buddy. We're gonna if people

3325
03:16:06,800 --> 03:16:09,000
Speaker 3: keep trying this ship, we're gonna have a list and

3326
03:16:09,000 --> 03:16:10,640
Speaker 3: we're gonna read it at the end of everybody, and

3327
03:16:10,640 --> 03:16:13,040
Speaker 3: I will give them your remail address.

3328
03:16:13,560 --> 03:16:17,560
Speaker 2: I will do anti advertising. I will accuse your boss

3329
03:16:17,600 --> 03:16:20,400
Speaker 2: that you want to go on my podcast of various crimes.

3330
03:16:20,480 --> 03:16:23,760
Speaker 2: And thanks to my understanding of libel laws in the

3331
03:16:23,840 --> 03:16:27,720
Speaker 2: United States. I should be fine. Yeah, where's that slander?

3332
03:16:27,760 --> 03:16:30,680
Speaker 2: I always yeah, well I'll do both. It'll be fine.

3333
03:16:30,840 --> 03:16:33,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're right, it will say, we'll post it.

3334
03:16:33,959 --> 03:16:36,680
Speaker 4: We we reported the news.

3335
03:16:37,160 --> 03:16:39,080
Speaker 3: Mm hm, we reported the news.

3336
03:16:44,480 --> 03:16:47,640
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3337
03:16:47,680 --> 03:16:49,600
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3338
03:16:50,360 --> 03:16:52,959
Speaker 11: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3339
03:16:53,040 --> 03:16:56,119
Speaker 11: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3340
03:16:56,160 --> 03:17:00,959
Speaker 11: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, podcasts,

3341
03:17:01,040 --> 03:17:03,840
Speaker 11: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find

3342
03:17:03,879 --> 03:17:06,920
Speaker 11: sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly in episode descriptions.

3343
03:17:07,240 --> 03:17:08,080
Speaker 11: Thanks for listening.