1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Body Bus, but Joseph's gotten more well. Here we are. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: We've come to the end of another year, twenty twenty five, 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: and for some unfortunately this past year it was literally 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: the end. And we have done the best that we 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: can over this past year to cover these cases. And 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: for me personally and on behalf of brother Dave Mac, 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you to all of my friends that 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: have listened faithfully and that have shared and commented and 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: made request along the way. It's certainly been an adventure, 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: I'd have to say that. But we're going to do 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: a little bit something different this time. I want to 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: take this opportunity to talk about the top ten most 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: downloaded cases that we have covered this year twenty twenty 14 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: five on Bodybacks. So without further ado, we're going to 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: enter in to ten through five. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 16 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: and this is Bodybacks Dave. Starting out, we didn't really 17 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: know where this year was going to go. We had 18 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: some indication, because Lord have mercy, I know, coming out 19 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four we did have some big cases 20 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: that were on the horizon, and I think that probably 21 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: our top ten is reflective of that. But I got 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: to say we had a few surprises along the way. 23 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: You have pointed this out to me, and I was surprised. 24 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: I was actually surprised, but kind of as pleasant as 25 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: things can be in the world that you and I 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: and habit. I was pleasantly surprised because it's a wide 27 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: variety of cases to a certain degree, but you know, 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: we can you can kind of predict, you know, what 29 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: direction things are trending, I think, and where people's interests are. 30 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: But certainly for us it was I'd say it was 31 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: a fruitful year. 32 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: It's a shocking list, you know. I was actually really 33 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: surprised by it. And you know, Joe, this past year 34 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: has been man, it's been a crazy year. 35 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: It really has. 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: And this time last year, when we were looking ahead, 37 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: I could not have predicted at all that I would 38 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: end up this year the way I did personally and professionally. 39 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: How we It's just amazing to me. And you know what, 40 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: what's really cool In a couple of weeks, In a 41 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: couple of weeks, you are going to be in Atlanta 42 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: with the Cheryl McCollum. We're actually been invited to join 43 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: a tour, and not just as I mean with body 44 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: bags of j Justseph Scott Morgan. I mean, you're the 45 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: most sought after person in forensics. It's amazing that that 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: the turnout expected for this thing and tickets are going 47 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: are gone. But I'm just I'm amazed, surprised at what 48 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: is in store. 49 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, the I am. And we're on this journey together. Brother. 50 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and and we'll have more 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: details coming out. I'll push stuff out about Dave and 52 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: I will be there together, I can promise you. And literally, 53 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: you've heard of the podcast Zone seven. We're literally going 54 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: to be at the place the namesake of Zone seven, 55 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: which is Manual's Tavern in Atlanta, and so that's where 56 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: the name actually originated. And we're going to be there 57 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: celebrating with our friend Cheryl, and I'll give it to you. 58 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: I'll just say this much. Probably a surprise appearance to 59 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: by somebody that you you may or may not have 60 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,839 Speaker 1: heard of. But we'll we'll see how that goes well. 61 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: But anyway, let's let's hop right into our list here. Dave. 62 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: All right, Joe, Look, when I was breaking these down, 63 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: I was shocked that Travis Decker showed up in the 64 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: top ten. Okay, now shocked not because it was because 65 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: I didn't realize how big this story is. You and 66 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: I cover so many stories and sometimes we really get 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: buried in the weeds. But Joseph Scott Morgan, Travis Decker 68 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: shows up twice on this list of the top ten 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: most downloaded shows of the year, and starting right off 70 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: the back and right off the bat Rather, when we 71 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 2: had the announcement several times that Travis Decker had been found, 72 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: you know, accused of murdering his daughters in the campground 73 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: that he was living in. Remember, it wasn't just he's 74 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 2: a camper. Now they've made it out like this guy 75 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: was freaking iron man living in the woods, you know, 76 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: and a survivalist who could eat a pine tree faster 77 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: than you'll givens, you know. And they had him made 78 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: out to be this Grizzly Adams type survivalist. And yet 79 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: you know, you go to the campsite where this homeless 80 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: bet was living and it's a trash bag of Dollar 81 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: General bags, you know. And but what was found there 82 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: was disgusting and shocking, Yeah, and sick. How does a 83 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: person who calls himself a man do this to children 84 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: much like his own? 85 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that I think that the fact that you 86 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: know that you emphasized that day relative to what had 87 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: been done to these these little angels, it goes to 88 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: I think, probably to a certain extent. I hate to 89 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: use terms like the fear that gripped the nation, but 90 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: there were certainly, and certainly in that area of the country, 91 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: there were people, I think, given this narrative that had 92 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: been put out about him as a survivalist, he's a veteran, 93 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: there was some concern about people that lived up because 94 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: in this particular area of the country, it's very isolated, 95 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: right and when you look at it and you think 96 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: this guy has nothing left to lose, and it's there, 97 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: you're out there with him, or he's in your space 98 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: potentially in his mono and mono, what are you going 99 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: to do if you come across this guy? And so look, 100 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: they were looking for this guy all over the Northwest, 101 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: particularly focused I think all the way up in that 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: northern stem of Idaho. They even contemplated that he had 103 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: maybe had made his way across the border into Canada, 104 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: and everybody was kind of waiting. You know, we would 105 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: get these updates periodically, you know, through the news, we'd 106 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: see things of course, with your sources, you know, you 107 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 1: would get little scraps of things that would come through, 108 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: but there was nothing really that you could hang your 109 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: hat on. And here's something else. You know, you talk 110 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: about the disorder of this world that he lived in there, 111 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: and I think that that goes to this tracking of him. 112 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: There was no specific order. There was kind of and 113 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that he's unpredictable like in 114 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: a cagey Fox kind of way. He's unpredictable in the 115 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: sense that this goes to his mindset. This guy is 116 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: mentally disturbed. He's a erratic, he's a ratic, he's all 117 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: over the board. And of course, as it turned out, 118 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: as it turned out, they you know, this guy is 119 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: found well in pieces. 120 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: Say that was this episode see the story, and I 121 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: should have probably clarified. You know, Travis Decker and his 122 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: ex wife had had custodial issues and it was because 123 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: of Travis Decker's life choices and how he lived. And 124 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: he did not return with the girls as expected after 125 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: a custodial visit, and so they were on his trail 126 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: right away. And that was one of the shocking parts 127 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: about the story is it wasn't like they started a 128 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: week behind. They started the day he was late, and 129 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: they were able to find the girls' bodies very soon, 130 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: within a matter of days. But Travis Decker was one 131 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: that could not find. And I remember as we were 132 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: looking for this, there were a number of stories of 133 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: you know, bones are found here, and I remember you 134 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: talking about how many times bones are found in the woods, 135 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: because well, animals die in the woods and their bones 136 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: are there in the woods, and you know, there's. 137 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: An interesting little piece to that, you know, when you 138 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: live out in the woods. I found myself. We lived 139 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: up in the North Georgia Mountains for a long time, 140 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: for about a decade, up in the southern part of 141 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: the Blue Rich Mountains, and there were these beautiful rivers 142 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: and streams up there, and I remember going to campsites 143 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: and Kim and I would just take the kids out 144 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: there and we would picnic and it's beautiful. You know 145 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: what I did most of the time when I was 146 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: out there, just taking in the beauty. I had a 147 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: fascination with hemlock trees because they grow up there adjacent 148 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: to bodies of water, and they're unique. Yeah, that's hemlock, 149 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: the same hemlock that was, you know, drank famously all 150 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: those all those centuries ago, and uh, you see the 151 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: beautiful sky, you see the mountains. You know what I 152 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: never really did. I never really looked down at the ground. 153 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: Oh wow. I think that a lot of people, a 154 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: lot of people think, well, it's it's kind of weird 155 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: that you would, you know, that you would find these bones. Well, no, 156 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: it's not. The bones are there because animals. Animals die, 157 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, not every not every animal that dies out 158 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: in the wood is some kind of trauma related event. 159 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: Sometimes animals just get old, just like all creatures do, 160 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: and you finally die. And people don't normally look down 161 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: at the ground, so, you know, and so you will 162 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: find things. When people do look down, they find these, 163 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, these kind of remains that are skeletal remains 164 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: that are left behind, and they average Joe citizen doesn't 165 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: know the difference between the fore leg of a deer, 166 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: which would be the deer fiend, and a human. Yeah, 167 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: and most people don't. And I'm glad that most people don't, 168 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: you know, but it's a world that we Endwell, that's 169 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: why it's so important in the Travis Deker case that 170 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: you actually had a team of forensic anthropologists that examined 171 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: these remains and clarify it because you know at the 172 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: end of the day with the decor case that that 173 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: final door is closed on this horrific chapter, and it 174 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: can only be finally closed with a confirmation of who 175 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: he was. 176 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy Joe that they couldn't even do an 177 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: autopsy because they never found his story. So they never 178 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: found his head. 179 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: No, they didn't. And you're talking one hundred days now, 180 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: range and the idea that you're absent these elements is 181 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: not surprising. You know, we talk about we talk about 182 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: all kinds of things when it comes to skeletal remains, 183 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: even if even in a wet environment like this, when 184 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: you have scavenger activity that disarticulates bones. Did you know 185 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: that hydrology plays into this as well. If you get 186 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: a big rainstorm and the remains are sitting on a hill, Oh, 187 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: you can actually have you can actually have a skull 188 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: that will roll away, You can have long bones that 189 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: will wash with Certainly the smaller elements will wash away 190 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: in your absence. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone has decapitated 191 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: someone and run off into the darkness with their head. 192 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, and so you have to confirm it. And 193 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: of course they were able to do this confirmation and 194 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: they wound up doing the confirmation through DNA. 195 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: Now, Joe, we started with Travis Decker at number ten. 196 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: Our number nine most downloaded show was also Back in 197 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: the Woods and a body being dumped. It's a human 198 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: remains found scattered on a Georgia hunting club property in 199 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: November of twenty twenty two. The remains were found in 200 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 2: a three mile area covering two different counties, and investigators 201 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: had to reach out to the public for help. And 202 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: I've got a couple of questions for you about this 203 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: as an investigator. I know that your world, that what 204 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: you do as an investigator is different than what law 205 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: enforcement does because they do have specific lines they can't 206 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 2: cross geographically speaking. Correct. 207 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you're right, And you know, many times, many 208 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: times you hear this term. It's thrown around a lot 209 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: in the news media where a task course has been formed. 210 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, in an area like Georgia, you 211 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: have cooperation most of the time between neighboring sheriff's offices 212 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: and that's who would you know, kind of take the 213 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: lead wherever the first remains are found. However, you're going 214 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: to need kind of this overarching organization, Like in the 215 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: case of Georgia, they have the GBI Georgia Bureau of 216 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: Investigation that can send teams out there, but they have 217 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: to be invited to come there. All right, Okay, it's not. 218 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: Like call up and say, hey, I'm with the FBI 219 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: and we're taking over. I'm with the e I we're 220 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 2: taking over. 221 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: No, it has to be something if they're going to 222 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: do that, it has to be something that there's a 223 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: statutory requirement or obligation where that particular state agency or 224 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: federal agency takes charge. What it comes down to is 225 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: keeping local control if you've got homicide in your area. 226 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: And I know this because even in Atlanta, you believe this. 227 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: When I was in Atlanta, there were things that the 228 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: Atlanta Police Department just could not handle and they would 229 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: call the GBI. The GBI and of course there were yeah, 230 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: and there were actually some personnel issues too, But there's 231 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: another time and place for that discussion that they would, yeah, 232 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: that they would want to call in, you know, they 233 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: would want to call in the GBI to work these things. 234 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: And so in this case, you're going to have kind 235 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: of an overarching But what's fascinating about this case is 236 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: at number nine is the fact that these remains are 237 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: scattered over a multi county area. 238 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: Dave right, and we're talking about the case of Mindy 239 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: Kosotis and her husband Nicholas Casotis. Now, I've read so 240 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: many things about this couple now that it's a very 241 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: confusing story. But when we were covering it, here was 242 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: the headline, missing wife body parts found in woods. Ex 243 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: Navy jag husband accused. We had this story from Nicholas 244 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: Casotis that they were being they were in trouble, and 245 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 2: they were being followed and they were having to hide 246 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: out because they were being controlled by a man who 247 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: was threatening them with their lives and they were on 248 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: the run for their own safety and block blah blah. 249 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: This guy created an entire world time, Nicholas gas And 250 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: so when his wife goes missing, he's trying to blame 251 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: it on this phantom person, you know, and they couldn't 252 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: find her at first. And then when body parts starts 253 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: showing up in Georgia in multiple counties, well, now you've 254 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: got the body or well parts of the body, and 255 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, having several different agencies involved. It gets 256 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: a little fugly at that point. 257 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, you're right, and he's listen, this guy. The 258 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: interesting thing about it, Yeah, he had been a part 259 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: of JAG in the Navy. And I think that the 260 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: thing that's so disarming about this is you think that, 261 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, an auscter and gentleman. You think that he 262 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: is going to be this kind of well anchored guy 263 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: that has a very strong moral compass and that. But 264 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: he could not be further from that tempo. Did you 265 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: know that that leading up to these fatal events, these 266 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: people had moved close to fifty times times uh in 267 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: just a few years. And anytime I've ever been associated 268 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: with a case in the past, uh, and people have 269 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: moved that much because even okay, let's just say that 270 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: even if you are tied to some big industry, you're 271 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: some kind of corporate head, or if you're in the military, 272 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: you're not going to move this much in a very 273 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: short period of time. Fifty That means that you're running 274 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: from something. And of course, you know Casoda's had had 275 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: kind of woven Uh. He's he's a you know, he's 276 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: a flim flam guy, is what it comes down. To 277 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: and a great deceiver is a pathological liar. And I 278 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: think that probably when the authorities, you know, finally got 279 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: wind of of her, you know, her absent, her being 280 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: absent in you know, in the in the current context 281 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: of life, immediately they're going to smell a rat with 282 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: this guy, Dave. 283 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: And it started with the finding of her head, I believe, 284 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: at a hunting range, a hunting lodge area. And I'm 285 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: gonna be honest, Joe, if you and I were out 286 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: with some friends hunting, you know, just having a hunting weekend, 287 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 2: right finding a human head, that would mess with your 288 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 2: weekend pretty bad, you know. And I'm being flipping, But 289 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 2: when you get right down to it, Joe, that's just 290 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: not an everyday occurrence to find a human head. Whether 291 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 2: it's a skull or hair on, I don't know, but 292 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: I would be freaking out. I would lose my cookies 293 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 2: if I saw something like that. 294 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you would. And there are a number of cases. 295 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: Dogs are very fascinating to me. I know that sounds 296 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: really out of the blue and kind of arbitrary me 297 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: saying that suddenly, but go with me here. Do you 298 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: know I've had more cases that I've been involved with 299 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: as an investigator with bodies that have either been post 300 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: wartem disarticulated as a result of decomposition or dismemberment. Where 301 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: a dog will come walking up with a head and 302 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. Yeah, dogs are fascinated and you know, 303 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: you and I both are. We're keen of the dog lovers. 304 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: You know. It's like there's certain people I don't care 305 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: if you do harm to them. Don't don't. Don't hurt 306 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: a dog around me. It's just not my thing. Man. 307 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, we rescue. You and I both rescue dogs. 308 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: And the one thing you know about dog behaviors they 309 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: love to play, most of them do, and with human 310 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: heads in particular. And I could tell you some really 311 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: wild stories of uh involving this. Maybe, well maybe we'll 312 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: do a whole segment sometime about wild stories from Morgan's past. Really, Uh, 313 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: look what the yeah, look what the dog drug in? Uh. 314 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: Dogs will walk up into a into their back home 315 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: with a head. And there's a number of accounts of 316 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: dogs having heads between their their forepaws and and chewing 317 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: on a head, chewing on a skull, or batting and 318 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: around Dave on the ball like a ball and they'll 319 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: do that and they'll get down. I love to see 320 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: dogs when they will get down and they'll put their 321 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: their rear end up in the air, you know, and 322 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: they kind of you know, look at it and their 323 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: their bent at the front, you know, and their tails 324 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: are wagging and they don't know any different, you know. 325 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: But yeah, so the head is actually found found in 326 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: this case. And yeah, if you if you happen to 327 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: come across a human head, even if you're some kind 328 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: of rough and tumble hunter and you're out on property 329 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: and you're going, this is something that's going to give 330 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: you pause. And generally consistently you hear this from people. Uh, 331 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: and I've done it myself, but people will say, wait, 332 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: hang on, I got to take a look at this again. 333 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: Did I just see what I thought I saw? Because 334 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: you don't. You can't integrate that into your thinking because 335 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: it's so far outside the norm. And so whenever this happens, 336 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 1: you'll have people say I couldn't believe what I saw 337 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: it first. And it's literally literally the definition of a 338 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: double take day, Dave, I think I actually called you 339 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: one Saturday morning, Okay, and forget me, I can't remember 340 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: the date. They all run together after a while, and 341 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: I told you I view listen friends. I viewed Dave 342 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: as kind of my sage because Dave has been in 343 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: media for so so long, and there's very few things 344 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: you could actually say to Dave mac. They're going to 345 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: shock him surprising when it comes to the media. I 346 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: can you can take that to the bank. All right, Uh, 347 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: but that Saturday morning. Forgive my language here, But as 348 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: my drill started used to say in basic training, you've 349 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: made me hit my highest level of positivity. I had 350 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: gotten a I'd gotten a text or something from somebody 351 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: that says, yeah, we we saw you on Dateline last night, 352 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: And of course it was a Friday night and that 353 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: show comes on and apparently the producers made the decision 354 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: to talk about how how that coburger had been had 355 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: been following through crime, and they threw my image up 356 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: on the screen, and I, you know, you could knock 357 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: me over with a feather at that point in time, 358 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking, you know, what, why in the world 359 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: does this have any you know, have Why are you 360 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: choosing to put my image up on the screen, you know, 361 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: relative to this? But you know, news is news, and 362 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: it's certainly. 363 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: A phone call saying, excuse me, professor Justph Scott Morgan 364 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: doing an episode about Jack Goberger, and hey, your name 365 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 2: has come up. Would you mind up providing I mean 366 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: anything other than getting a note from some friend who says, hey, 367 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 2: what were you doing on Dayline Lives. 368 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: It's like, I've never given an interview on Dateline. I've 369 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: never done anything with Dateline. It's I see them at 370 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: crime con and I don't even you know, know those people. 371 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, so this episode actually comes in at number 372 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: eight day and I think that, uh it kind of 373 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, you're going to see this kind of tracking through, 374 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: you know, through the entire uh, this entire discussion that 375 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: we're having. But number eight was a ghastly new info 376 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: on Idaho college murders that had been leaked to the public. 377 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: And what was being stated at that particular time is 378 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: that these injuries had been leaked out to to the 379 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: general public visa V this programming that had come out 380 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: and as it as it kind of turned out, all 381 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: of the injuries are ghastly. But in this episode they 382 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: choose to focus on Ethan and you know, you kind 383 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: of I think that reflectively, we kind of remember what 384 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: my history is with this victim in particular, you know 385 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: back in I guess it was twenty twenty three at 386 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: Crime con when Ethan's mother was present for that and 387 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: she stood up at the end of my talk, and 388 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's just it gives you an idea as 389 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: to the feeding frenzy. And you know, when you see 390 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: the degree to which to which these agencies, these news 391 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: agencies will go into free feeding, it. 392 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: Was crazy, Joe, because they actually made statements that turned 393 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: out to not be true, these so called leagues, you know, 394 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 2: from the investigation, or they were misinterpreted information. It was 395 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: all factual. And you know when as somebody in the media, 396 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: it is our job to vet information before going forth 397 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: with it because no matter well, and you know what 398 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: this is the difference. It's probably the difference with age, maturity, 399 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: what have you, because there are things you'll do when 400 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: you're younger that you wouldn't do later in life, because 401 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: you've got years of experience of life to realize that 402 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: somebody could be hurt by what I'm about to say, 403 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: you know, and it doesn't matter if it's true or not. 404 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 2: It matters that somebody is going to be hurt. Emotionally, 405 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: and in this particular case, every family member associated with 406 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 2: it was hurt to one degree or another, and they 407 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: all took it differently. You know, they really did. And 408 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: I think it was an example of that with Reethan 409 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: in particular. By the way, I'm only going to say 410 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: this one time. At Orlando, your presentation was brilliant. All 411 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: I could think of is that missus Shapin did not 412 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 2: see the first twenty minutes, where You've spent twenty minutes 413 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 2: of this entire hour long presentation talking about the students 414 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: that were murdered, talking about the type of people they were, 415 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: the type of students they were, their background. It was 416 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: a real up close and it wasn't just the end 417 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: it had. The first twenty minutes had nothing to do 418 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: with the attack. 419 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: Well, you know, there was there was a you know, 420 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: I know the term now and I don't necessarily agree 421 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: with it. The context that's always used and they use 422 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: the term intersectionality now and that term has been around 423 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: for long time courses in the zeitgeist now, particularly in 424 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: academic circles. However, there was kind of this intersection for me, 425 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: I think with this case because it tugged at from 426 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: the beginning. It tugged at my heartstrings because those students 427 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: therein I saw my own students, because I'm a college professor, 428 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: and this our institution's Jack State and University of Idaho 429 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: are so very similar their regional universities. They're not huge 430 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: kids come from rural areas and populations are you know, 431 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: kind of similar. You know, we're not Harvard, We're just 432 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: you know, generally middle class, middle class kids are coming 433 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: to school here, you know, and they're they're looking to 434 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: go on with their lives and that sort of thing. 435 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: So it really I knew that just reflecting back, and 436 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: I tried, Dave. I hope that I did the right thing, 437 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: because I hope that through through every comment that I 438 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: have made regarding regarding this horror, I always kept that. 439 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: I tried to keep that in the forefront of my mind, 440 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, not trying to be overly speculative and jumping 441 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: to these wild, varied conclusions. And as we'll find out, 442 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: there's there's still much I think that can be learned 443 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: from this on many many levels. 444 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: And you'd learn a lot more those leaks, Okay, the 445 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 2: leaks that that show was based that we did on 446 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 2: you know, was. It really was interesting how it did 447 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: open up the rest of the coverage. You know that 448 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: we because now we had this, we had a story 449 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: that we could look at and go, well, this is 450 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: not true. This didn't happen. Where did they get this now, Joe? 451 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 2: Moving forward to episode the seventh most downloaded episode of 452 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: the year, was something that hit both of us right 453 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 2: between the eyes. It was a case that would mortify anybody. 454 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 2: I if you have a heart and soul and a 455 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: breathe in your year, alive this episode because it could 456 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: happen anywhere anytime. I think you know is uh to 457 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: without without warning. Okay, you go to the hospital to 458 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: have a baby, and you've gone through all the prenatal care. 459 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: You're young, you know, and it's a it's a scary time, yes, 460 00:27:54,119 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: but you expect to at least have your childbirth in 461 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: the United States of America and this day, and you know, 462 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: you expect certain things. And when you brought me this episode, 463 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: we were still learning things. It was amazing what was 464 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: not readily available Joseph Scott Morgan right, And the title 465 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 2: of the episode was baby Update, Baby dah dated. Yeah, 466 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: because we had done an episode, we'd. 467 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: Done an episode about it, and I'm familiar with this institution. 468 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say this institution was not necessarily in my 469 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: jurisdiction Atlanta. However, however, I had cases that originated in 470 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: my jurisdiction where the victims wound up going to this facility. 471 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: We're talking about Southern Regional Medical Center in Clinton County, Georgia. 472 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: I would have stuff that would originate on the very 473 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: far south side of Atlanta and the closest hospital that 474 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: could get to a Southern Regional. I'd actually been down 475 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: there several times. I'd been into the emergency room. I'm 476 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: just and so it's like, I don't know about you, Dave. 477 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: Probably it would probably apply. But when you have inhabited 478 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: a space before you've breathed that air, you you know 479 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: the you know the landscape, you you can recall what 480 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: buildings look like and all that sort of thing. It 481 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: breathed kind of a new life into into a world 482 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: that say, if I was covering something that was in 483 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: I don't know mine, not in North Dakota, I don't 484 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,239 Speaker 1: I don't have an attachment to that, you know, Like 485 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: in my mind, this struck home with me because when 486 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: I heard the horror that had and this is actually 487 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: horror that was and I'll say this very plainly was 488 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: perpetrated upon these two young parents. And I say young, 489 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: they're in their late teens, Dave. And they had done 490 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: all of the right things. Okay, they'd done all the 491 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: right things prenatal care. They were ready to rock and roll. 492 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: They were getting ready. And yeah, they weren't married, but 493 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: you know they were. I don't care. They're they're looking 494 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: to start a life together. They're going to get married 495 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: and hear this beautiful blessing is coming their way, Dave. 496 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: And their lives and i'd say the lives of their 497 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: extended family or ripta shreads as well. And one more 498 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 1: thing I got to say about this case, because I 499 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: know that I've got a lot of medical professionals that 500 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: are our friends out there that listen to us on 501 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: a regular basis, and God bless you. I get comments 502 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: from many of you many times, particularly all my nurses 503 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: out there. I got contacted more about this case from 504 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: the medical community than I did from any other case 505 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: I think in recent memory or that we have covered. 506 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: And it was because of the horror of it, where 507 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: these practitioners that listen to us, they would they knew, 508 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: they know what the steps are relative to a delivery 509 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: of a child. Even if they work on a surge unit, 510 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: they still understand what goes on in labor and delivery. 511 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: They understand procedures even you know, even if they're I 512 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: don't know, even if they give palliative care at home 513 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: for somebody that's in the last stages of life, they 514 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: understand this. This is something. This goes to what the 515 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: heart of health care is health care not health doom? 516 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: All right, And Dave, I got to tell you it 517 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: wasn't a fact. It wasn't only the fact, and we 518 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: had covered this early on in the first episode. It 519 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: wasn't the fact that a mother and this is her 520 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: first child, is giving a birth of a full term baby, 521 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: a viable baby that is alive at the beginning, and 522 00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: the doctor decapitates the baby during delivery. From what we're 523 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: hearing now, she was it was suggested to her that 524 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: they probably should have gone with a C section, but 525 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: she insisted upon trying to rotate this baby, rotate the shoulders. 526 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: And what happens, well, the physician allegedly has decapitated the baby. 527 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: Then they take the remains of the baby, swaddle the 528 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: baby and place the head back onto the torso of 529 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: the child. Do not allow you know, one of the 530 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: big critical things that happens with the mama that delivers 531 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: is that even in death, they need to hold that baby. 532 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: They need to hold it. It's just it's part of 533 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: the process. And they passed this off really quick. The 534 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: heroes here are actually is actually the funeral director death 535 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: because they gave indication. But you know, with this update episode, 536 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: what made this all the more horrible, as if that 537 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: couldn't it's if that's not enough, all right, the family 538 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: decides that the direction of someone that hey, we need 539 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: to get a pathologist to do the examination. They hired 540 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: this guy to do an examination, a post mortem examination 541 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: on this precious baby. And Dave, this individual takes images 542 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: of the decapitated remains of this child and post them 543 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram. Dave just let that sink in. And so 544 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: that's what the update was actually about. And I think, 545 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, they successfully sued this guy and 546 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: they came to a settlement. There's so much more that's 547 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: going to happen. I think with this case as well. 548 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: It should. You know, some lawsuits out there. You know, 549 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: I know that we're all jaded and everything. We think, well, 550 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: this is frivolous. It does, Dave, if there was ever 551 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: a lawsuit in the history of humanity, Yeah, that needed 552 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: to go forward with the full force of the law 553 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: behind it. It's this case, Dave. 554 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: It's the case of Jessica Ross, Travion Taylor, Sr. And 555 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: baby Isaiah. They did bring a lawsuit. They did sue 556 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 2: doctor Jackson Gates after Gates posted the pictures and video 557 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 2: without their consent or permission. A jury awarded them two 558 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: million dollars in damages. And there's still more to come. 559 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: Oh, there's a lot more to come. I think that whoever, 560 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: whoever is involved in this, and it's not it's not 561 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: simply the doctor that decapitate this child. It's going to 562 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: be the hospital, It's going to be all the associated 563 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: people that set up a deception. A lot more to 564 00:34:49,880 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: come on this particular case, Dave, Well, Dave, that brings 565 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: us to number six on our list here for twenty 566 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: twenty five and the most downloaded episodes. In this particular episode, 567 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: which I'll go ahead and tell you the title right now, friends, 568 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: it's the FBI DNA Shocker. Bodycam, police body cam, screaming 569 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: on stairs and coburger case continues. The big reveal here, 570 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: I think for us was that and the reason we 571 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: did this episode. There's a couple of reasons. First off, 572 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: we had some information that had come out relative to 573 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: the initial interview with Dylan Mortenson in this particular case, 574 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: and I think that the issue of the staircase came 575 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: into question. 576 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 2: It's so interesting how much much more we know now 577 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,479 Speaker 2: than we knew at the time, and we were having 578 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 2: to you know, we were so blinded, and they could 579 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: have they could have let a lot of the information 580 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: out earlier. But a lot of what we have is afterward, 581 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: you know, after the admission of minimal admission of guilt. 582 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of that has become public knowledge. 583 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 2: But at the time, we were going on little bits 584 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 2: of little scraps of information that we were getting, and 585 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: it was fascinating how you were able to take that 586 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 2: and explain what we were getting, Joe. That was the 587 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 2: part that I take away from it. 588 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that you know, you're you're trying to you know, 589 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of paint by numbers, right, You're you're feeling 590 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: literally filling in the blanks, but you it's faint by 591 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: numbers without having the numbers, and you don't you don't 592 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: even know what color to use. But you know, I 593 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: think that that probably for for anybody that's that's looking 594 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: back now in time, some of these things have kind of, uh, 595 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: there was so much shucking and jibing, I think relative 596 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: to what the defense was doing and what the prosecution 597 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: was trying to protect along the way. And yeah, it's 598 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: really easy I know, for anyone to sit back and 599 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, cast cast judgment, not dispersions, but judgment and listen. 600 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I don't know how many 601 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: people out there in sparsely located you know, locations like 602 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: this that have worked a quadruple homicide. Right. It's a 603 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: it's it's really easy to say what we would and 604 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: would not do. And I've you know, I've certainly made 605 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: my judgments over a period of time about the way 606 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: the scene was was initially handled, how it was locked 607 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: down and secured and all that, but you don't know 608 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: kind of at a granular level, you know, really what's 609 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: going on. I think probably this goes back to our 610 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: friends at Authram and as as you and I had 611 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: suspected and we talked about this, you know, off off air, 612 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, for a long time. I had my own suspicions, 613 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: and uh we knew that if they were looking to 614 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: do anything regarding regarding DNA, and specifically with forensic genetic DNA, 615 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: that our friends at AUTHORAM would probably be involved in it. 616 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: Uh. 617 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: That's by the way, Uh, you know, shameless plug DNA 618 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: solves dot com. Check them out. But as it turned out, 619 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: there was one other big reveal here. It wasn't just 620 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: what Dylan Mortensen had heard, what she had relayed in 621 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: those those first that first day, you know, after after 622 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: this this horror, but it's also what we came to 623 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: find out about the FBI. There was there's been an 624 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: internal memo that had been circulated through the FBI where 625 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: they talked about how it was not there it was 626 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: not going to be their practice to utilize non open 627 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: source DNA. Uh, you know, well springs, you know, to 628 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: glean information from because that requires there's there are certain 629 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: certain things that are guaranteed to us, uh, even to 630 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: accuse killers where you have a right you know, to 631 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: privacy and when you enter into an agreement like some 632 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: of these big corporations have with uh, with privacy and 633 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: collection of DNA to do you know, if you're trying 634 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: to figure out if your family from Norway or Z 635 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: bobwe you're you know, you have an expectation of privacy. 636 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: And according to what had come out is that it 637 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: wasn't just the DNA UH that was being utilized that 638 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: was recovered you know, necessarily at the scene and certainly 639 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: off the or the the way it was sourced. It 640 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: was also it was also they were going to go 641 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,959 Speaker 1: into close source DNA databases. And for me personally, as 642 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: a big fan of prophecy and you're right to a prophecy, 643 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: it kind of sent shivers up and down my spine. 644 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,280 Speaker 2: It still does me, Joe, for anybody who has ever 645 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,879 Speaker 2: been accused of the crime they did not commit. If 646 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: you've ever sat in the chair where everybody believes you 647 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 2: did something and you know you didn't and there appears 648 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: to be evidence pointing at you, believe me. You understand 649 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 2: the importance of truth and privacy. And when they said 650 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 2: they would never do this, the government will never have 651 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 2: access the government, blah blah, it's a load of garbage. 652 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: It was now granted. Look, man, it without it, Joe, 653 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: I believe there was evidence. However, it was the evidence 654 00:40:54,920 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: that the investigators wherever to were able to glean from this. Yeah, 655 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: that led them to this particular suspect and then all 656 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 2: the other information pit. But without that, there was information, 657 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 2: but it wasn't There was nothing. There was no string 658 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 2: tying it all together. Yeah, I know they could have 659 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 2: done that. I don't know. 660 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the reason I like to term use the 661 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: term wellspring, you know, because it's from that font that 662 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: everything else comes from that source, that root. Uh. We've 663 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: even got you know, precedent in the law. Uh that 664 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: goes back to you know, even if you want to 665 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: take a look. And again I'm no jurisprudent scholar here, 666 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: but you know, if you look at things concepts like 667 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: fruit of the uh you know, through the boys tree 668 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: and all these sorts of things, it's a dangerous area. 669 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: And I have felt and I know I remember feeling 670 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: that curious, you know, kind of corkscrew feeling going up 671 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: my spine when they were finally in the last phases 672 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: of adjudication with this case, thinking if there is one 673 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: bit of if there is one thing that they could 674 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: you know, kind of latch get a toe hold with 675 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 1: As far as appeal would go, I felt as though 676 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: that it could be this bit, and of course, you know, 677 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: as it's turned out, you know, he's he has agreed 678 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: to not file an appeal. That was part of the 679 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: but as you know, just like the changing of the wind, 680 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: that subject to whatever wind happens to be blowing at 681 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: that particular time, I submit to you, and I still 682 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: believe this is that as time goes by, I think 683 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: that there will be some type of appeal filed. I 684 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: just don't know what form that's going to take, but 685 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: certainly I think that this is something that anybody that's 686 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: going to be advising this prisoner, it's certainly something that 687 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: they would probably look at in the long er. 688 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 2: And that's why we did an episode, and is why 689 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 2: it's number six and our most downloaded. There was a 690 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,319 Speaker 2: lot more in that episode as well, by the way, 691 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,439 Speaker 2: not just that, but boy, all right, Joe, to wrap 692 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 2: up this episode, our number five most downloaded episode, you know, 693 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 2: we began number ten was about Travis Decker's bones and 694 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 2: what went into finding the body of Travis Decker. And 695 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 2: but that's not where the story began. No, Our five, 696 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: number five most downloaded episode actually said the title was 697 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 2: horrifying details Decker sisters, deaths, bags on heads, hands, zip tied, 698 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 2: bloody handprint. Yeah, Joe, this was one of the episodes. 699 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 2: I cried when we got done. 700 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really struck a chord. I think with 701 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: you and I both, and I know that you know, 702 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 1: our point of reference is always as dads and Grandpa's 703 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: and you know, the brutality here I think, you know, 704 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: the brutality of strangers is one thing. Brutality of those 705 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: that that we love and trust and trust our children 706 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: with this it's a different level. And you know, and 707 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: I even go back to you know, I think about 708 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: Kay and there's tons of them I could sight, but 709 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 1: probably you know, Chris Watts is another you know that 710 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: you know I think about that. You know, how can 711 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: you how can you perpetrate this? I don't, I don't. 712 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: I don't really care about what psychopathology you're dealing with 713 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: at any particular time. You're not going to tug my 714 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: heartstrings with that. I just I think about that life 715 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: that you have had a hand in creating, in how 716 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: you have the the willpower and uh kind of the 717 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: evil as a driver that you're going to rob the 718 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: world of of of these kids. And when I heard 719 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: about when I heard about the status that these baby's 720 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: bodies were found in out there, and that out there 721 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: in that wilderness, because Dave, you had to pipe in 722 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: sunshine into this area. This is not some this is 723 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: not some locale that is easily accessed. The fact that 724 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: you could do this to these children and leave them 725 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: and have them be subject to the wiles out there, 726 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: Dave scavengers all these sorts of things. It would appear 727 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: that he had prepared and there were a multitude of 728 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: these zip ties that were found adjacent to this camping 729 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: area and also that were I think found either in 730 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: the vehicle as well along with these bags. The bags, 731 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: the bags that these kids, and the bags are actually 732 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: the fatal tool here because they are this is not 733 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: this isn't one bag, it's multiple bags that were placed 734 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: over their head. So he's trying to trying to assure 735 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: that their lives are going to come to an end. 736 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: And you know, really painting a picture here because anybody 737 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: that is struggling, and people out there will understand this. 738 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: If you've ever had your breath taken away, if you've 739 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,879 Speaker 1: you know, when you were a kid, if you ever 740 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: had siblings and you play pickpile and you're on the 741 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: bottom of the pile, you're going to flail and do 742 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: everything that you can to try to get your air. 743 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: All right, He restrained them, Dave. He restrained them with 744 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,959 Speaker 1: these zip ties to prevent them from clawing or doing 745 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: anything or trying to fight him. This big, you know, burly, 746 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: outdoorsy veteran. You know, he's zip tye in the hands 747 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: of these babies. Just let that eight and five yo. 748 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,959 Speaker 1: And you know that he would do this and one 749 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: by one systematically deprive them, deprive them of the breath 750 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: of life, as well as any future that may have 751 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,879 Speaker 1: been there, not just for them, but for him. Man, 752 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: I don't care how rotten your life seems at any 753 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: particular time. I don't care how bad your past has been. 754 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: The fact that any potential for hope, you know, drained 755 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 1: away when those children drew their last And now this 756 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,919 Speaker 1: poor mama is left here, you know, and I can't 757 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,319 Speaker 1: even imagine the position she's in to this day. 758 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 2: Dave Peyton, Evelyn, Olivia Decker, Joe. When we did this episode, 759 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 2: Travis Decker was still missing. He was on the run. Yeah, 760 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 2: he was the lone suspect, but he was on the run. 761 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,840 Speaker 2: And at the time, officials said, anyone who sees Decker 762 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 2: or knows of his whereabouts, she called, I'm on one. Now, 763 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 2: of course it has been resolved, and you know, they've 764 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 2: identified his body or what they found left. 765 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: But that was our. 766 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 2: Number five most downloaded episode of the year, Shocking. Now 767 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 2: we've got the top four. We've got the final four 768 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 2: Joe for tomorrow, and I will tell you it is 769 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 2: a final four of Shocking. 770 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: I will tell you. 771 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:04,760 Speaker 2: I'll give you that much. 772 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not necessarily surprising. But again, as we go 773 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: back and we visit these episodes that brother Dave and 774 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 1: I have put together over this past year, it brings back, 775 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: It brings back the horror that we have tried to 776 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: do in the most sensitive ways we possibly can. But 777 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: describing the forensics behind how people lost their lives and 778 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 1: what happened to them actually in death is what we're 779 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: all about at Body Bags. Join us for episode two, 780 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: which will in fact be premiering tomorrow. I'm Joseph Scott 781 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,879 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybys