WEBVTT - Extended Conversation: How To Live Forever With Dr. Sanjay Gupta

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<v Speaker 1>This is Gavin Newsom, and we continue with doctor Gupda.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk in Sanjay, because you've been I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you've been one of the great thought leaders and written

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<v Speaker 1>so much about longevity, and you talk about nutrition and

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<v Speaker 1>health and some of the remarkable breakthroughs that are just

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<v Speaker 1>they seem just shockingly common sense, I mean just sort

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<v Speaker 1>of foundational, just leading with common sense, eating well, sleeping well, hydrating, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, socialization, et cetera. But you've been writing particularly

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<v Speaker 1>about some breakthroughs and some examples of real successes as

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<v Speaker 1>it relates to longevity and wellness that give I think,

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<v Speaker 1>distill a sense of well being at least people like

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<v Speaker 1>me that with an aging grain population, that we should

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<v Speaker 1>be more optimistic than I think some of us have

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<v Speaker 1>painted the future.

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<v Speaker 2>With what we know now, not not any new medical

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<v Speaker 2>breakthrough or some big development. I think we could greatly,

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<v Speaker 2>greatly expand life expectancy and health span. That's a term

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you've heard, but health span versus lifespan, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the number of really functional years you have left. I

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<v Speaker 2>think the data has become very compelling on this. I

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<v Speaker 2>think anecdotally we've known this for a while. By looking

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<v Speaker 2>at other countries around the world and saying they spend

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<v Speaker 2>a lot less. They do pretty simple things. They walk

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<v Speaker 2>to their meet friends as opposed to driving. They eat right,

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<v Speaker 2>They fresh foods, healthier foods. They sleep well. Some of

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<v Speaker 2>the healthiest communities in the world have either non existent

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<v Speaker 2>healthcare systems, are very very small healthcare systems. So and

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<v Speaker 2>that's heart disease, that's dementia, that's diabetes, all at a

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<v Speaker 2>fraction of the rates that we have in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't have anything that we don't have. What's happening

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<v Speaker 2>to us is not because of what we're not doing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's because of what we are doing to our bodies.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'll tell you something interesting, Governor, if you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about longevity overall or aging sort of as a construct,

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<v Speaker 2>what scientists will stay, including Eric Topol, who you may

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<v Speaker 2>know in your state, aging is really made up of

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<v Speaker 2>several different things. It's not just revolutions of planets. It's

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<v Speaker 2>how well your immune system is working, how much inflammation

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<v Speaker 2>you have, how much something that you have known as senescence,

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<v Speaker 2>how many cells that are in a sinesseence stage. There's

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<v Speaker 2>seven different things like this that you can sort of

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<v Speaker 2>think about that actually make up aging that will determine

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<v Speaker 2>your health span, far more important than your genetics. We

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<v Speaker 2>can control many of those things. We can improve our

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<v Speaker 2>immune function, we can decrease our inflammation, we can decrease sinessence,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's all these different ways to do it now

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<v Speaker 2>that have great data behind that. There are certain medications

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not you know, Hockey any medications here, but

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<v Speaker 2>like something like met Foreman even, which is something that's

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<v Speaker 2>gotten a lot of attention Nil's Bursley, who's a longevity

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<v Speaker 2>research out of SINAI will say met Forman is probably

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<v Speaker 2>the closest thing we have to targeting all these different

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<v Speaker 2>cardinal issues of aging, which I find really really interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't call it a breakthrough. I would call it

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<v Speaker 2>a recognition of what aging really is, what is really

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<v Speaker 2>happening to the human body, especially as we get older,

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<v Speaker 2>wire function decreases, and what can be done about it.

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<v Speaker 2>You're quite right, it comes down to the big three,

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<v Speaker 2>how we nourish ourselves, how we move, and how we rest.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's there's more nuance to it now

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<v Speaker 2>based on a lot of the data people like Eric

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<v Speaker 2>and Nill's are collecting.

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<v Speaker 1>And at the core. I mean you've you know, you've

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<v Speaker 1>you've written about I mean when it comes inflammation, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>sugars issues are around dairy meats. I mean, what's I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>what yeah, you are You're solidified in that sort of

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<v Speaker 1>core sort of understanding that limiting obviously sugar seems to

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<v Speaker 1>make a lot of sense. I don't know if everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with dairy as a component concern, uh, and and

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<v Speaker 1>and then we can have the great meat debate as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But are these sort of these foundational in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>addressing particularly issues around Alzheimer's and dementia. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>know Dean Ornish is out here in sas Alito. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>California has been pushing a lot in that space. What's

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<v Speaker 1>what's your sense on the basis all your research and work, well.

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<v Speaker 2>Sugar i'd put into its own category, like illuding to

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<v Speaker 2>sugar is toxic. I mean, I did a piece for

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<v Speaker 2>sixty minutes years ago called the Toxic Truth, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was all about sugar, and it is. It is remarkable

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<v Speaker 2>to me what sugar does to the body. We are

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<v Speaker 2>our bodies just don't know how to process the amount

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<v Speaker 2>of sugar that we eat. Nowadays, it basically hits our

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<v Speaker 2>liver like a tsunami. And I think what's what's rising

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<v Speaker 2>to people is that because the body can handle all

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<v Speaker 2>that sugar, it turns out these byproducts, which are typically

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<v Speaker 2>what are called LDL particles low density lipoprotein particles. You

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<v Speaker 2>would typically think my LDL is going to go out

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<v Speaker 2>because I ate a cheeseburger, which is true, but it

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<v Speaker 2>might go up even more from a sugary drink. That's

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<v Speaker 2>how toxic sugar can be to the body. So sugar

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<v Speaker 2>I'd almost put into its own category. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>with regard to the other things darian even meat. I

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<v Speaker 2>do eat meat. I'm not a total vegetarian. I hope

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<v Speaker 2>Dean's not listening because he's you know, he's vegan. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think it really has to do with how those

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<v Speaker 2>foods are processed. It's all the other junk that's added

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<v Speaker 2>to a lot of those foods that I think make

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<v Speaker 2>them really problematic and increase inflammation. What Dean was able

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<v Speaker 2>to show, and I thought it was fascinating, was that

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<v Speaker 2>going on a vegan diet was greatly associated with decreasing

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<v Speaker 2>inflammation in the body and in the brain, and could

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<v Speaker 2>if it could stall and potentially reverse Alzheimer's disease. That

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<v Speaker 2>that was a big deal. I mean, people, once you

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<v Speaker 2>get diagnosed with dementia, it is a downward spiral from

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<v Speaker 2>there on out. He was able to show that you

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<v Speaker 2>could at least stall it, if not reverse it, by

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<v Speaker 2>simply changing diet and increasing activity as well. But diet

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<v Speaker 2>was the big thing, and we've anecdotally sort of known

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<v Speaker 2>this to be true, but I think he was really

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<v Speaker 2>able to show this, and I think that's that's certainly

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<v Speaker 2>made me reconsider my eating. So I've cut back on meat.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, I I we you know, I got

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<v Speaker 2>three teenagers. You got to you got to balance your

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<v Speaker 2>your life with what you know. I mean, if we

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<v Speaker 2>were going to live forever, Kevin, if that was a

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<v Speaker 2>can I call you Gavin, by the way.

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<v Speaker 3>Please do the the the if if if we if

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<v Speaker 3>there was a possibility we could live forever, that immortality

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<v Speaker 3>was attainable, I might live my life differently, but I

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<v Speaker 3>think you've got to balance your joy with your your lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 2>And and I'm a very healthy exercise every day intensely,

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<v Speaker 2>but also take long walks with my wife and my

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<v Speaker 2>dogs and stuff like that. So I have more moderate

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<v Speaker 2>activity as well, eat healthily, don't eat sugar and ill,

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<v Speaker 2>don't drink alcohol. Alcohol is terrible. I mean, yeah, why

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<v Speaker 2>do well anyways? But but the the.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in the wine business. You're talking to the wrong guy.

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<v Speaker 1>But I completely appreciate your point.

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<v Speaker 2>My guess is when you drink wine and I and

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<v Speaker 2>I have. I have drank wine, and I can appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's virtues. But do not do not get a terrible

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<v Speaker 2>night's sleep.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, now, if I have any this works against

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<v Speaker 1>my personal interests. I've not got to say no sugar

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<v Speaker 1>and whether of course there's a byproduct of the wine

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<v Speaker 1>as well. But by the way, are you a coffee drinker?

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody's got is a mushroom coffee. People are in what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on with coffee? Should I be drinking coffee?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I didn't know about the mushroom coffee. But I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone's saying you should try mushroom coffee.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm asking you. I I like so,

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<v Speaker 2>I you know, it's a funny. Funny thing is I

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<v Speaker 2>really did not drink coffee up until a few years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was for no particular reason other than I

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't like the taste of it. I am. It

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<v Speaker 2>was unusual because most surgical residents and medical students, they

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<v Speaker 2>started drinking coffee, you know, sort of you know, early twenties,

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<v Speaker 2>and they become part of their lifestyle. I just never

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<v Speaker 2>liked it. But during the pandemic, actually is when I

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<v Speaker 2>started drinking coffee. I was waking up at four thirty

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning every day and working till eleven thirty

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<v Speaker 2>at night, you know, for a couple of years in

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<v Speaker 2>a row. And my wife actually introduced me to this coffee.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if we're allowed to talk about brands,

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<v Speaker 2>but I really like it. It's called Purity Coffee and

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<v Speaker 2>Pure coffee. It's just it's it's got no none of

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<v Speaker 2>the additives that we were talking about. It's it's pesticide free,

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<v Speaker 2>and to me, it tasted really clean. When I drank

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<v Speaker 2>coffee and the asked it, I always felt like I

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<v Speaker 2>could almost taste the aftertaste to it, and this was

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<v Speaker 2>just a really good coffee. And then I started really

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<v Speaker 2>doing a deep dive into coffee, and I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's associated with all these different health benefits, cardiac dementia, inflammation, overall.

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<v Speaker 2>So I drink a cup of days, sometimes two cups

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<v Speaker 2>a day, and I think it's I think it's been

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<v Speaker 2>really good for me.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, I think I mean as a guy

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<v Speaker 1>who's got a few cups behind him in front of

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<v Speaker 1>him on the.

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<v Speaker 2>Side, just black coffee, or what are you drinking?

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<v Speaker 1>It's just black coffee. No, I'm not adding any of

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<v Speaker 1>that cream, any of that nonsense.

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<v Speaker 2>And it takes a little bit to get used to

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<v Speaker 2>the taste I think of just a black coffee. But

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<v Speaker 2>once it's there, ye.

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<v Speaker 1>Once you're there on the other side, you can hold strong.

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<v Speaker 1>How worried should I be about this floride movement now

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing I mean Utah, Florida, there's big debates in

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<v Speaker 1>Louisiana other states to take floride out of the water?

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<v Speaker 1>Where did that? Where did this even come from? How

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<v Speaker 1>important is I read in the past one of the

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<v Speaker 1>great success stories in the last half century in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of just you know, tell me give me your over

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<v Speaker 1>under on fluoride.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well see, this is why I appreciate about podcasts

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<v Speaker 2>like this, because there's a nuance to this, and you

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<v Speaker 2>can actually get into the nuance a bit. Fluoride in

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<v Speaker 2>really high doses can be problematic. It can cause something

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<v Speaker 2>known as skeletal fluorosis. I'm talking about ingested fluoride. So

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<v Speaker 2>you're taken it into your body through usually through water.

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<v Speaker 2>It can cause skeletal fluorosis, which can make your bones

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<v Speaker 2>in your skeleton weak. It can cause dental fluorosis. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if you've ever seen governor people who have

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<v Speaker 2>white streaks in their teeth. Yeah, sometimes that is a

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<v Speaker 2>dental fluorosis. That's an indication of high fluoride levels. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think most recently and interestingly, there's been concerns about neurotoxicity.

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<v Speaker 2>There were studies done, all of them outside this country

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<v Speaker 2>where fluorid levels are much higher than the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>where they showed that moms, for example, during pregnancy, if

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<v Speaker 2>they had high fluorid exposure, their kids later in life

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<v Speaker 2>was associated with a lower IQ. So that was obviously concerning.

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<v Speaker 2>These are hard studies to do, and there was some

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<v Speaker 2>you know, getting the methods right on these studies is challenging,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think there was enough of a concern about

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<v Speaker 2>that for people to really start paying attention. To give

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<v Speaker 2>you a little bit of context, the levels that we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about are at least twice as high as the

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<v Speaker 2>levels in the drinking water in the United States, so

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit higher. And in medicine we always use

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<v Speaker 2>this phrase the dose makes the poison things in any

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<v Speaker 2>just about anything in a high enough dose could potentially

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<v Speaker 2>be problematic. But it's you know, it definitely gets people's attention.

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<v Speaker 2>What I would say when you talk about the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that it's touted as one of the greatest public health

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<v Speaker 2>achievements of the last century. I saw that as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that there's a kernel of truth to that.

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<v Speaker 2>But the nuance is most of the data that exists

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<v Speaker 2>on the benefits of fluoride exists before nineteen seventy five.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen seventy five was a timeframe when dental care became

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<v Speaker 2>much more widely available and fluoridated toothpaste, So prior to that,

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<v Speaker 2>fluoridating the water probably had an incrementally a much bigger

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<v Speaker 2>benefit than it does today, So it doesn't provide as

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<v Speaker 2>much benefit. I think it's low risk because the levels

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<v Speaker 2>don't get as high as they used to, and they

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 2>don't get as high in the United States, as I

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 2>should say, as they do in other countries. But it's

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.679
<v Speaker 2>also lower reward, So fluoride today lower risk, lower reward

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 2>than it used to be. Iceland does not fluoridate their water.

0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 2>England does not floridate their water. Israel does not fluoridate

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.840
<v Speaker 2>their water. In Iceland, the kids all do twice a

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 2>month fluoride rinses, and England, interestingly, they fluoridate milk, so

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.920
<v Speaker 2>it's not water. So you're floridating milk. They like, we

0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.320
<v Speaker 2>don't want to put it in the water supply kids

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, who drink milk, they should still get their

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 2>florid That was sort of their thinking. Calgary in Canada,

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.560
<v Speaker 2>they stopped fluoridating their water back in twenty eleven, I believe,

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.600
<v Speaker 2>but then brought it back because cavity rates went up

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and there was a new study that said, in the

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.559
<v Speaker 2>United States, how much of an impact would it have

0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to take a fluoride out of the water, And they

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.040
<v Speaker 2>said it could potentially be, you know, twenty five million

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 2>more cavities within the next five years, fifty million cavities

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 2>within the next ten years. So, you know, I think

0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 2>we need better dental care overall, and this is almost

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.200
<v Speaker 2>a policy discussion. I think people it's hard to get

0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 2>dental care. It's hard to get dental coverage. But I

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.120
<v Speaker 2>think if we had fluoride rinses, if kids got better

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.320
<v Speaker 2>dental care, then I think the incremental benefit of fluoride

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:52.360
<v Speaker 2>goes down even more. Sexually, Kennedy's been talking about florid

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.720
<v Speaker 2>for a long time, heavy metals in general, but fluoride

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 2>in particular for a long time. And you know, as

0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 2>with these other things we're talking about, there's a nuance

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 2>to it. I don't think it's as big a public

0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.440
<v Speaker 2>health issue now as it was fifty years ago, sixty

0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>years ago. But and we can even model how much

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of an impact it would have. But I think it

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>really speaks to the fact that we need better dental

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 2>care overall.

0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Boy, I really appreciate the nuance of the response, and

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 1>it just look, it goes to I think our frustration

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.000
<v Speaker 1>just generally as consumers and as people that you know,

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 1>just are so desperate just for the facts and a

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>deeper understanding. And you talked earlier about the politics and

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>these binaries and how everything is seen through a political lens.

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 1>It's just the larger issue of misinformation. I mean, you know,

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 1>obviously COVID seemed to expose a lot of that stress

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 1>and anxiety. And you know, obviously our politics has been

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>I think profoundly shaped sort of post COVID framework, and

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>I think in some respects significantly so obviously with RFK

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.680
<v Speaker 1>as HHS Secretary in terms of health care policy today,

0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>what's your you know, as you reflect back and you

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 1>know your own experience living through sort of helping us

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>all through the pandemic experience in COVID, how do we

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.520
<v Speaker 1>get back to the kind of platform that we need

0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>in order to row in the same direction as a country,

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 1>to be prepared again, my gosh, for another novel virus

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.960
<v Speaker 1>moving forward, where we're not at each other's throats, we're

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 1>not talking down to each other, past each other. Help

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.640
<v Speaker 1>give us a sense of how we get back into

0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 1>the trust and truth space.

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think it's I think it's tough, for sure,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 2>And as a medical reporter, you know, I think I

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 2>have a really front row seat to how this is

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 2>all sort of unfolded. I'd say one thing, just for

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 2>historical reference, is that if you go back and you

0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 2>look at the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, that was a

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.000
<v Speaker 2>time when obviously we didn't have cell phone, social media,

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, rapid sort of spread of information, but there

0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 2>was still a lot of distrust overall of basic public

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 2>health recommendations. There was a fair that was supposed to

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 2>take place, I believe in Saint Louis and or maybe

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.560
<v Speaker 2>in Philadelphia. Philadelphia and Saint Louis were the two cities.

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.960
<v Speaker 2>One city said, how can we possibly do a big

0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 2>fare like this in the middle of a pandemic? And

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>the other city said, we don't think it's a big deal.

0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 2>We'll do the fairs. They took it on, and they

0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 2>had twelve times the rate of fluid deaths as the

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>city that chose not to do it. Point being that

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>there has been this skepticism that I think exists just

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>in human nature forever, you know. And I'll go so

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 2>far as to say this Governor, maybe some of that

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 2>skepticism is necessary, you know. I think that I think that,

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, if we look at human beings like organisms,

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.160
<v Speaker 2>some people just have their antennas raised really really high.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think when you're antenna's raised really really high,

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.560
<v Speaker 2>two things happen. You see things that aren't there. You

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 2>just see things and the blurry off in the distance,

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 2>and you think that there's an attack coming and it's

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 2>not coming. But on the other hand, sometimes you see

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 2>things before everyone else does as well. And so I

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>think there are people whose intendos are raised really high,

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.480
<v Speaker 2>who are just concerned citizens. I think there are you know,

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.640
<v Speaker 2>SCHD starters who sort of fall into that category as well,

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 2>but not all of them. It's a heterogeneous group of

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.919
<v Speaker 2>people who are who are going to be resistant to

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>basic public health measures. It's it's a much more diverse

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:31.920
<v Speaker 2>group of people than I think I realized. That's one

0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 2>thing I think with regard to misinformation and even disinformation,

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:44.879
<v Speaker 2>purposeful misinformation, I think my largest concern right now is

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.479
<v Speaker 2>that we're getting to the point and I hope it changes,

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 2>and I'm optimist. I'm an optimist. I think it will change,

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.160
<v Speaker 2>but I think right now we're at a point where

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:59.440
<v Speaker 2>nobody believes anything. Yeah. I was talking to my youngest daughter.

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.320
<v Speaker 2>It's about a year year and a half ago, and

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I was very close to Senator John McCain and she

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>showed me some meme on TikTok or Instagram or something

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 2>about John McCain. She knew that we were close, and

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 2>especially after he had his brain tumor and things, and

0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.760
<v Speaker 2>this was a funny meme, but it somehow suggested that

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.240
<v Speaker 2>he was alive and that his whole death was a hoax, right, crazy,

0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.360
<v Speaker 2>crazy stuff. And I said, hey, Sole, okay, funny, right,

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>but you know that's not true, right, And she said, yeah,

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 2>it's here on Instagram whatever. And I said, yeah, but

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 2>you know it's not true. And she said to me, Governor,

0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 2>she said, any of this stuff is true, Dad, And

0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.960
<v Speaker 2>it really got me thinking, like what happens to a

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 2>generation of people that grow up without a locus of trust?

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, forget who they trust. You know, they should

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 2>trust you, they should trust me, they should trust experts.

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.320
<v Speaker 2>I think, I really do believe that, But maybe they

0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.639
<v Speaker 2>don't trust anybody. And I think unless you can touch somebody,

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:03.680
<v Speaker 2>unless you know somebody personally, you don't really trust them anymore,

0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 2>which I think is is really problematic, and I think

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>that's where we're headed. It starts to hyperlocalize suspicion of everybody,

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's where we're headed. So I think,

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 2>for me, you know, as as a reporter, instead of

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.160
<v Speaker 2>constantly combating misinformation, which is like playing whack a mole

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 2>all day long, just continuing to try and put out

0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 2>good information and explain things in a way that is

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 2>accessible to people, and you know, leans into the nuance

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and the uncertainty of things as a country. If the

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 2>question you're asking is about preparing for the next pandemic,

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I would say the precautionary principle is important, and that

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.360
<v Speaker 2>is that is how we do many things in our country.

0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.719
<v Speaker 2>We have, you know, more than a dozen aircraft carriers

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 2>right now that are circumnavigating the globe and they're keeping

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.240
<v Speaker 2>us safe. We don't pay a lot of attention to that.

0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 2>It's not something we have in the forefront of our minds,

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>but they're out there basically displaying the precautionary principle. A

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 2>virus is a national security threat. We saw what it

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.359
<v Speaker 2>did to our country. If we're able to apply the

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.199
<v Speaker 2>precautionary principle at a policy level, so things just go

0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 2>into effect, as opposed to Seattle's doing this and New

0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 2>York is doing this, and Alabama's doing this, and Florida

0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>is saying we're not going to do any of that,

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.680
<v Speaker 2>and it was just a mess. Instead, if we actually

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.040
<v Speaker 2>applied the precautionary principle as a country treated as a

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.199
<v Speaker 2>national security threat, which it is, I think we'd be

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.119
<v Speaker 2>much better prepared. But you know, right now we're in

0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.200
<v Speaker 2>a position where you have people who believe COVID was

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 2>a hoax the entire thing. So we have some work

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to do, I think before we get there.

0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.159
<v Speaker 1>Because I think you know, there were obviously mistakes we

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 1>did make. There was lessons that we do need to learn,

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 1>and there were decisions that need to be reconciled going forward.

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 1>And I think for denial about that that we're not

0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 1>going to build that level of trust moving forward for

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.400
<v Speaker 1>those that feel very very differently.

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 2>No question, And I think you know one thing that

0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 2>I think was a real learning point. I think you know,

0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 2>as doctors, if we're you know, recommending I was in

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.640
<v Speaker 2>the operating room all day yesterday, you know, taking out

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.359
<v Speaker 2>brain tumors and doing things like that, we know that

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 2>it leaves a toll on people to do that, to

0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 2>recommend chemotherapy. We know the impact of that on their lives.

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 2>We think that the benefit is that it could cure

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:21.679
<v Speaker 2>their cancer, but we know it's going to be it's

0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.040
<v Speaker 2>gonna be tough sledding for them for a while. How

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.639
<v Speaker 2>do you convey that at a societal level, you know,

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 2>closing schools. The impact of that, you know, that was

0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.119
<v Speaker 2>tough on my kids, you know, so so to really

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 2>I think be very mindful of the the the impact.

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that the decisions are wrong, but being

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.639
<v Speaker 2>really mindful of the impact of those decisions on people.

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.000
<v Speaker 2>It's it's tough, you know. As doctors, I think we're

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more trained toward it, and because we

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 2>have to like look at risk reward for everything. But

0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I think assessing risk and balancing that reward as a

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.880
<v Speaker 2>country is hard. And I think that gets back to

0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.640
<v Speaker 2>where we started, this precautionary principle. We don't know, Let's

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.439
<v Speaker 2>be cautious, let's be careful, Let's not accelerate around the

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>blind curves here, Let's let's hit the brakes a little bit,

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 2>you know. And I think that's that's still to me,

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 2>that still makes sense.

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Final question, I'm curious, you know, you speaking of sense,

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:28.439
<v Speaker 1>speaking of risk, speaking of trust, where are we to

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.720
<v Speaker 1>make sense of AI and medicine. We're seeing just runaway

0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 1>costs and healthcare. It seems like every other industry is

0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>found efficiencies, every other industry. Costs seem to go down.

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 1>It seems like more technology is introduced to the healthcare sector.

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Our costs seem to go up and up and up.

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Is AI over hyped in terms of medical expenses? Is

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.520
<v Speaker 1>it over hyped in terms of research and discovery? Is

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>it under hyped as it relates to imaging benefits and

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:02.160
<v Speaker 1>just sort of supercapacity to address chronic disease and solve

0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.560
<v Speaker 1>for some of life's great evils and cancers.

0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it's going to be magnificent ultimately what AI

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:14.040
<v Speaker 2>can do for healthcare. It's going to need guardrails, but

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I think even those are, you know, very trainable. I mean,

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.120
<v Speaker 2>there's great companies, one of them out to California called

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Open Evidence, where you're already starting to see like for me,

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you an example. A guy comes into the

0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 2>office with back pain and leg pain and he's got

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>a herniated disk and their lumbar spine in the lower back.

0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Do they get an operation? Do they not get an operation?

0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I could ask ten different spine surgeons and maybe get

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:44.679
<v Speaker 2>eleven different answers. AI could look at nine billion pieces

0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 2>of data within a fraction of seconds that here are

0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>fifty thousand other people who are just like the person

0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.000
<v Speaker 2>you're describing, and here are their various outcomes based on

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:55.879
<v Speaker 2>evaluating their medical records and doing this all in a

0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 2>de identified way. My resident's already walking around talking to

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 2>their phones as they're walking into a patient room to

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.080
<v Speaker 2>figure out the best approach to to, you know whatever

0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 2>whatever al's they're they're patients, you know, so it's it's

0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 2>already changing. I think, I said on the Subcommittee for

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.680
<v Speaker 2>AI for the National Academy of Medicine, and I think

0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:18.239
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that really struck me is we

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.199
<v Speaker 2>were creating these these guardrails, was this idea that we

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:25.240
<v Speaker 2>still have to think of AI from a trust but

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:30.919
<v Speaker 2>verify sort of model. It's it's wildly effective at finding

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:35.600
<v Speaker 2>breast cancers, for example, on mammograms, but sometimes it airs

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>wildly as well. And you know, these hallucinations as people

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.920
<v Speaker 2>call them. I think they're already starting to get better

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 2>about that. I think it's gonna you know, we we've

0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.880
<v Speaker 2>been talking about big data, you know, for decades now.

0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.320
<v Speaker 2>AI is actually going to be able to make sense

0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 2>of that big data and I think make it valuable

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.199
<v Speaker 2>for patients. I'll tell you a quick anecdote. You know,

0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:58.720
<v Speaker 2>if you've been to the hospital lately or a clinic,

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.639
<v Speaker 2>and you got a letter from you know, sort of

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>summarizing your care. It probably was generated by an AI platform.

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:08.239
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting. And most of and when they when they

0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:11.639
<v Speaker 2>blinded these letters and they compared them to actual letters

0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 2>written by doctors or nurses and then gave them to

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:17.640
<v Speaker 2>random people, what they found was the AI letters were

0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 2>often referred to as more human the human letters, which I.

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Thought was that just is that the state of doctors,

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:26.400
<v Speaker 1>is that the quality of you know.

0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I think if you if you said to me, hey,

0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, my daughter's going to get married, you know,

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:33.399
<v Speaker 2>in July, you know, and I'm really excited about that,

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 2>but you're here for your herniated disk, I may have

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.560
<v Speaker 2>deprioritized that information, whereas an AI platform may have listened

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 2>to that and said, hey, Governor, I hope the wedding

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:43.880
<v Speaker 2>went well with your daughter. And you know, just these

0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>human touches. You had these moments where humans were looking

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.560
<v Speaker 2>at these AI letters and they were pausing at the

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:53.600
<v Speaker 2>moment that they read these human touches, and it was

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>almost like humans learning from machines how to be more human.

0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:02.840
<v Speaker 2>I think. So I'm bullish on AI. I think, and

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:06.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think one thing about New technologies. Is

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.639
<v Speaker 2>that there's always a disparity in terms of haves and

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:14.400
<v Speaker 2>have nots when they first come out. Before mimmography, black

0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>women and white women had similar rates of breast cancer.

0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:21.000
<v Speaker 2>After mimmography, breast cancer rates went down overall, but much

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:23.560
<v Speaker 2>more so for white women than Black women. We see

0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:26.879
<v Speaker 2>those disparities with AI already, so we have to address disparities,

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:29.720
<v Speaker 2>make sure this is very available and accessible to people.

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 2>But I think it's gonna it's gonna change healthcare. We're

0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 2>gonna come up with new treatments and the right clinical

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:38.320
<v Speaker 2>decision making much more quickly as a result of AI.

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:41.520
<v Speaker 1>In thirty years, you're still doing brain surgeries or as

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 1>a robot doing them?

0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm still doing I'm still doing them. You'd be proud,

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 2>you know. I say this as a as a brain

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:53.160
<v Speaker 2>surgeon who always carries around brain with me. I got

0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.040
<v Speaker 2>it right here. Yeah, I don't know that a robot

0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 2>is yet able to fully grapple with three and a

0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:03.600
<v Speaker 2>half pounds of the most enigmatic tissue in the known universe.

0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 2>I still think humans have to do that. Eventually, we may,

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 2>we may get there, but right now I just think

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.680
<v Speaker 2>the you know, the dexterity and sort of the types

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 2>of operations that we do. But look in cardiac surgery

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 2>and prostate cancer surgery, you have Da Vinci, you have

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 2>robots that that stuff. For a while, we'll get there.

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.359
<v Speaker 2>I'll be retired, I think by that point, hopefully. I

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:24.679
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.160
<v Speaker 1>If you keep if you keep to your wellness program,

0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:32.359
<v Speaker 1>you're going to be fine. Go hardly, hardly. I'm gonna

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 1>watch ka. I already have my instructions on on my

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:39.119
<v Speaker 1>meat consumption in the s acknowledge. I'll acknowledge them.

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Will be in the wine business, and that drinks so

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:41.240
<v Speaker 2>much wine?

0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean that's an issue. I mean it's an

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.840
<v Speaker 1>objective issue. But I shouldn't be I can't be promoting well,

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 1>maybe I should be promoting my businesses. Apparently that's not

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 1>an issue anymore.

0:27:51.200 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Hey, can I ask you what's going on with you?

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 2>Real quick? Like, what's what's what's up? After you know? Sacramento?

0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's it's sure as hell. I ain't going to

0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 1>be medical school. I have no capacity there. But it's

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:05.320
<v Speaker 1>it's to be determined, all of it to be determined

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.840
<v Speaker 1>the time of profound uncertainty. And I'm just trying to.

0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm trying not only to not get fined today,

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>but not get arrested tomorrow in the next few months.

0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:17.920
<v Speaker 1>It's crazy what's going on in this country. But I

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 1>will say, though on a serious note, just you know,

0:28:21.160 --> 0:28:26.520
<v Speaker 1>it's also remarkable how just trying to just absorb what's

0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:28.479
<v Speaker 1>happening with healthcare policy from the MEATA, we didn't even

0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:31.240
<v Speaker 1>get into medicaid cuts. We didn't even get to the

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:35.680
<v Speaker 1>broader issues associated with the quote unquote reorg at HHS

0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 1>and all the cuts to you know, just people out

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 1>there promoting vaccines, HIV issues and treatments. I mean, this

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:47.400
<v Speaker 1>is a lot going on, and it's hard to absorb

0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:48.640
<v Speaker 1>just one hundred plus days in.

0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>I know, and as a reporter, I mean just every

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>day there's something new and it changes. It's so ephemeral,

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.040
<v Speaker 2>like you get all ready to report on it. An

0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:00.240
<v Speaker 2>hour later it's it's it's different. But you know, in

0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:02.320
<v Speaker 2>the good fight, you know, I think certainly as reporters

0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:06.400
<v Speaker 2>were information matters, good information matters. Fewer people are consuming it,

0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, we we're well aware of that, right. Yeah,

0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't mean me stop trying, you know, keep that.

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, Well, I love what I mean to your point.

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:15.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I made the point earlier.

0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.800
<v Speaker 1>But your podcast is fabulous and it's great to see you,

0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:21.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, out there doing especially with the just those

0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:24.040
<v Speaker 1>sort of short clips where you're answering those tough questions,

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 1>but doing with the kind of nuance I thought, and

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean that sincerely, your response on the floor ide.

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Is just something we don't hear.

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 1>And it's hard to have a segment that is that

0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:36.360
<v Speaker 1>COMPREHENDI because it just provides a different level of appreciation

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 1>for perspective on this. It's it's not just as simple

0:29:39.520 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>as yes and.

0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Noah, it's not. And you know, I'm a dad, you know,

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:47.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, first and foremost in a husband, but a dad,

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:50.480
<v Speaker 2>you know who I think like I do put myself

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:54.520
<v Speaker 2>in the position of those people who are the honest skeptics.

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm an honest skeptic. You know, most scientists are on

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.400
<v Speaker 2>a skeptics I think, and I think that I think

0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 2>that that helps you know, I would I do that

0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 2>for my kid? Would I do that for my mom?

0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I think it makes it there you go.

0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>No, it's in by the way, we had the exactly.

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I remember that conversation you mentioned with your wife do

0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:12.480
<v Speaker 1>we do all of the shots at once.

0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Or do you you fish?

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>I quite literally had that conversation with four kids four

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>different times.

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.360
<v Speaker 1>We concluded all four times, let's just get it done.

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:25.560
<v Speaker 1>But but but that it's a legitimate sensitivity. I wouldn't

0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 1>call it quote unquote hesitancy in this sort of weaponized sense,

0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:32.480
<v Speaker 1>but just human And you have to acknowledge that that perspective.

0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't mock those people at all. I mean, well,

0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:38.760
<v Speaker 2>there are people who mock them. I that's not gonna work.

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean maybe that's the number one thing about misinformation.

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.479
<v Speaker 2>The mocking doesn't That doesn't work. It just it just

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 2>creates tribes and politicizes it even further. So try not

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:49.840
<v Speaker 2>to do that.

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:53.920
<v Speaker 1>God Bless, I couldn't agree more. Hey, I really appreciate

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:56.400
<v Speaker 1>you taking the time. This was fabulous. Thanks for all

0:30:56.440 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 1>you do and keep doing what you're doing. You're your

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:04.719
<v Speaker 1>your are a bright light in this darkness. Uh, And

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you taking the time.

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>He's a lot coming from you, Governor. Thank you