1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. That's our one and only 4 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: super producer, Mr Max Williams. Hi, it's me Ben Boland. No, no, 5 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: we both we we both watched Tiger King. We did. 6 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: We gotta admit it. We both watched it. Wow. That 7 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: was like peak pandemic television, you know. I mean it 8 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: was the thing that sort of united all of us 9 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: and solidarity, uh and bonded us together for the fight 10 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: against the coronavirus. You know. Thank you Joe Exotic for 11 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: giving us that gift. Apparently the new one is not 12 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: so good. The the sequel, they just sort of like, 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, are mining desperately for like extra bits of 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: stuff to to shove into a series. I have not 15 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: bothered watching it, but no, I did like it. And 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: I also I've got to give credit where credit is 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: due to chase a story like that and to be 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: around as it totally like happens before your very eyes. 19 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: Like the filmmakers deserve credit for hanging out, you know 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: and just kind of seeing this whole crazy story kind 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: of you know unfold. Uh. And and and allowing us 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: to you know, go along for the ride. Is it 23 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: high art? You know, maybe not, but it's definitely pretty 24 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: solid documentary filmmaking. Yeah, yeah, Greedon, it's a good point 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: about the pandemic. Society was living vicariously through so many 26 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: adventures of other people. You know. Uh, Subscriptions to streaming 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: services were on the rise, where people were listening to 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: podcast watching films, so on and so on. But one 29 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: thing that we found, with the help of our longtime 30 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Paul Gabe Louisier, was that Joe Exotic was maybe not 31 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: the first tiger king. In fact, the the first tiger king, 32 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: we we could well say, was a guy named Charles 33 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: jam Rock in the eighteen hundreds in London, which was 34 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: a very very different London from the London you'll see 35 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: in the two thousand's very much was. I mean, well, 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: you know, you're still going to see the high streets 37 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: and the cobblestones and all of that good stuff. I mean, 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: London is a town that prides itself in its history. 39 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: There were a lot more wild exotic animals just kind 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: of around. Uh, and that was thanks in part uh 41 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: if not, well, now let's just let's not give him 42 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: fall the credit. But it was thanks in part to 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: Charles jam Rock, who's the coolest name in the exotic 44 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: animal trade if you ask me, spelled j A M 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: R A c H. He was a very, very sought 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: after wild animal dealer. He was known throughout the world 47 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: and he had a very very uh a list kind 48 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: of clientele that he catered to. He had agents all 49 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: over the world that would get him exactly what he needed, 50 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: be at a panther, a prized panther, puma, or some 51 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: other animal that starts with a pie, since we're doing 52 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: the whole alliteration thing, a parrot. They were very into 53 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: with the mccaus been. That was a very sought after 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: exotic pet um and it was all about class and status. 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: These pets were very expensive to purchase, very expensive to 56 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: feed and maintain, and very expensive and dangerous to house 57 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: and keep them from, you know, like malling the housekeeper. 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: But that happened a lot too. I got a jump 59 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: in air and to ask, actually, couldn't get you a 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: porpoise to keep along with this piece thing? Could you 61 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: get a porpoise? A good question? Porpoises? Uh, yeah, we're porpoises. 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: Popular in this period. Let's go, he could get you 63 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: a porpoise on purpose. I'm sure if you if you 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: had to he he was. He was probably into porpoises 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: for profit, if that was a possibility. Okay, done with 66 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: the piece. So this this is weird because this coincides 67 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: with an earlier stuff they don't want you to know episode. 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: We did a while back on allegations of cryptids of 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 1: large cats attacking people in modern day UK, But back 70 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds, just as you described, there were 71 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: quite a few very real, very dangerous large cats. One 72 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: example that comes to us from our pals at Mental 73 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: Flaws is how on October eighteen fifty seven, this kid 74 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: was just walking down the street in London's East End 75 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: when he was attacked by a tiger that had escaped 76 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: its cage. The tiger snatched up the kid like put 77 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: him in its jaws and ran off with him down 78 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the street. Luckily, the kids survived, the tiger survived, and 79 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the guy who rescued the boy survived, which was convenient 80 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: for the rescuer because the rescuer also owned this tiger. 81 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: It was it was being delivered to a shop owned 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: by Charles jam Rock and as as you had established earlier, 83 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: he was at the very least one of the top 84 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: wild animal dealers in the world, quite possibly in the world. 85 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: He had this network of people all around the planet 86 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: that would help him get quote unquote exotic animals to London, 87 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: and London, as we'll find, had had a long standing 88 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: um fascination with all these kinds of creatures that appeared 89 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: in other parts of the world. And this is this 90 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: is so weird. Like, if you've been to London, you know, 91 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: there are a lot of things you can complain about. 92 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: It's got some of the world's worst traffic. Things can 93 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: be more expensive than a lot of people are used to. 94 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: But if you walk down like a high street now, 95 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: of the many certaing you might have, one of them 96 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: won't be Will a jaguar attack me? Is today the 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: day that it's tiger gets my foot be a pretty 98 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: poetic way to go. But no, no, it definitely would 99 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: not be something I would sign up for, especially given 100 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: those rapacious prices of of lodging and meals and all 101 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: of that. Um. But I I sort of, I said, 102 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: I walked it back already, but I'm just gonna walk 103 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: it back one step further, Charles jam Rock was definitely 104 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: one of the most noteworthy wild animal dealers in the world, 105 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: like you said, and and you know, cater to a 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: very very very high end clientele. But there had been 107 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: a fascination, a long standing fascination with exotic animals in 108 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: London long before he hit the scene. There was a 109 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: wild animal menagerie uh in the Tower of London that 110 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: was around since twelve thirty five. Um. And as we've 111 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: talked about in stories of of American presidents and their 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: weird pets and stuff. Sometimes, uh, these animals are given 113 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: as like political gift, you know, as a sign of 114 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 1: solidarity or layer is our most notable creature from our 115 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: land we present to you as a sign of our 116 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: affection for you as a country and as a ruler. 117 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: But jam Rock, Uh, he hit the scene in a 118 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: moment that was really really really crucial, um because trade 119 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: was beginning to open up. So was no longer all 120 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: about just like having someone that was coming as an 121 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: ambassador an emissary bringing you a gift. Now there were 122 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: all these trade routes that were open, and essentially a 123 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: business sprung up out of this whole fascination. It was 124 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: quite an industry in the late eighteenth century noises from 125 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: big animals, especially large cats around the Exeter or Strange area. 126 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: We're just a normal part of city background noise, the 127 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: way you would hear horns honking or people saying well 128 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: gonna you know whatever the UK version of that is. 129 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: So there was even a writer, Charles Lamb who lived 130 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: in Temple Lane and he wrote about how he liked 131 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: to hear the big cats yelling when he walked home 132 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: after a good night of drinking and partying. It's strange 133 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: because you know, if you think about it, this makes 134 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: a kind of sense. This is the age of the 135 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: British Empire. It's the world's leading imperial power, and so 136 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: it was seen as a benefit of living in the 137 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,239 Speaker 1: heart of this empire to have this at home, access 138 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: to animals from around the world. And people made a 139 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: lot of money doing this kind of thing. As you said, 140 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: there's a guy named Joshua Brooks who had a menagerie 141 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: they called it at the end of Tottenham Court Road, 142 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: and his specialization you'll love this was exotic birds, but 143 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: he also was into antelopes, lions, monkeys, porcupines. This is 144 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: like a day the zoo for a lot of people. 145 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: You you feel like you're getting a taste of culture. 146 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: You feel like you're living vicariously, right, You're having adventures 147 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: by having the world brought to you totally. Um. And 148 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: there is a fantastic book by Christopher Plum called Georgian 149 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: Menagerie that you can get at the Guardians online bookshop 150 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: if you go to Bookshop dot the Guardian dot com. 151 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: And John Mullin over at the Guardian did a really 152 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: great review, uh, and exerted a little bit from this 153 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: book that talks about just this period in English history. Uh, 154 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: Georgian England, Georgian London, right, Um. And there were everything 155 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: from camels too, you know, um, rhinoceri whatever is it, 156 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: rnacerest is, who cares? They were everywhere, as as the 157 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: Guardian puts the lions on Tottenham Court Road, camels on 158 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: the strand, England's capital once teamed with beasts. So this 159 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: would have been a very very interesting time. Like you said, Bennett, 160 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: it was sort of just par for the course, and 161 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: folks were treating it more like to visit to the zoo. 162 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: It wasn't a huge deal. It was just another attraction 163 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: that London had to offer to entertain people. You know, 164 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: there were even like traveling wild animal menagerie's that would 165 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: go from town to town and then if you had 166 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: enough money, you could actually buy your own tiger or bow, 167 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: a constrictor or whatever you might tickle your fancy. So 168 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: there were a ton of exotic pet shops already. By 169 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: there were around a hundred and eighteen wild animal dealers 170 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: with brick and mortar shops just in London, but you 171 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: also have them all over the country in places like 172 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: Bristol and Bath and Liverpool. Um, and you could, if 173 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: you were so disposed financially and you know mentally, uh, 174 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: to go into one of these and check out a 175 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: bear or an elephant or a kangaroo. Perhaps. Um pretty 176 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: wild if you think about it. And England kind of 177 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: got this reputation as being the hub, the center that 178 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: kind of like dumping off point for the US wild 179 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: animal trade, whether they were alive or dead, because a 180 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: lot of these animals would not survive the long journeys 181 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: from their native lands, you know, to London to this hub. 182 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: It is funny like we live here in Atlanta. Uh 183 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: in Atlanta is a hub for a lot of things 184 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: like that. Too. Unfortunately, one of those is human trafficking. 185 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: That's because of our approximity to one of the biggest 186 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: airports in the world. So this is the kind of 187 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: thing you get when you sort of become this like 188 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: crossroads of civilization. Yeah, this is Uh, there are a 189 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: couple of points there that that I think we could 190 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: highlight for context. Let's keep in mind, Uh, this is 191 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: the same part of the world where people were flexing 192 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: by renting pineapples. It's a very different cultural framework. Also, 193 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: are we still in pointy shoes area or we passed 194 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: that now? I think we're a little past pointy shoes. 195 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: But pointy shoes are always around the corner because it's fashioned. 196 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: So get ahead of it and get your own pointy 197 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: shoes today. Ridiculous history branded always be closing. This is 198 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: a good time for us to give some examples of 199 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: these weird flexes. Consider the Earl of Shelburne, who later 200 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: went on to become Prime Minister. This guy kept in 201 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: orangutan and a tame leopard in his orang injury at 202 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: Bowood House. We talked about oranges too. You were flexing 203 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: by happy citrus fruits growing on your property. Yeah, and uh, 204 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: I can. I guess, is a leopard ever truly tame? 205 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean you can do it, yeah, just the it's 206 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,479 Speaker 1: the difference between taming and domesticating. So a single individual 207 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: creature could be ostensibly tamed, but it would still very 208 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: much be a wild animal. So it wouldn't all of 209 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: a sudden be like you have a uh, spotted version 210 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: of Lassie. If that makes sense. Well, I guess what 211 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: I'm getting at is we're going to see in some 212 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: of these stories there is the perception of having a 213 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: tame animal, and then you know, when you maybe poker 214 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: product or pushed a little too far, does that tame 215 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: element kind of drop off and then that sort of 216 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: refers back to its natural state of wildness. It can, yeah, 217 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: because taming. Think of it as like human familiarization with 218 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: humans or with often with like a couple of particular humans, 219 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: and you know, you'll be seen as as a peer 220 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: or or maybe even you'll be seen as an authoritarian 221 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: or parent figure, but there's still very much wild wild animals. 222 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: And I love I love the point about orangutanks because 223 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: they're so intelligent. In fact, just recently I learned there 224 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: was a long standing myth in Um. It's long standing 225 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: myth in some very specific region where orangutanks occur, where 226 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: the people have always believed that orangutanks can talk. They've 227 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: just decided not to let humans know because they don't 228 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: want to be put to work. And there's some great 229 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: meme I keep picturing. It sounds so realistic of like 230 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of orangutangs hanging out, even though they're kind 231 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: of solitary creatures, hanging out, shooting the breeze, maybe having 232 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: a book club, and then they see some humans coming 233 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: and they say, oh, ship, everybody shut up. They're gonna 234 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: make us pay taxes. But they are, they are. They 235 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: are very intelligent animals. And you know, Shelburne is um 236 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: not an exception to the rule. Sir Robert Walpole had 237 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: a pet flamingo. Sir Hans Sloan had a one eyed 238 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: tame wolverine that would just sort of follow him around 239 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: his house. He also had an apossum and porcupine. No 240 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: word on how the three animals got along. I would 241 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: imagine he kept them separate. Ben you pronounced the oh 242 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: and possum. I know this is a very divisive thing. 243 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a person. I think that shows it 244 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: speaks to people's personalities. Actually believe there's a difference between 245 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: a possum and an opossum. It's it's a little confusing. 246 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: They both refer to the Virginia possum in North America. Uh, 247 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: the technical or scientific context I think is o possum. 248 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: But then if you go to Bob Vila dot com, 249 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: which I did not think would enter the conversation ship today, 250 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: Bob is telling me that one key difference is their tails. 251 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: A possums tale is thick and furry. He says, thanks Bob, 252 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: who knew who was such an expert? Yeah, yeah, I 253 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: guess he got started in the possum game and then 254 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: went on to the rest of his story career. So 255 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: when we when we look at it trustworthy home advice, 256 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: Bob field A possums and opossums. Uh yeah, let us 257 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: know your your take on the possum apossum controversy. Queen Charlotte, 258 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: that's another quick example. Wife to George three, she had 259 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: an elephant, she had a couple of zebras in Buckingham Palace, 260 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: and she was one of the big champions of bringing 261 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: exotic animals to London. And she had a collection of 262 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: the first living kangaroos seen in the area, which later 263 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: led to a kangaroo collecting mania in the seventeen nineties. 264 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: And then yeah, and she would give kangaroo babies Joey's 265 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: to were fellow aristocrats who already had their own private menageries. 266 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: You know, I think we've talked about this, but it 267 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: turns out that the pouch on mama kangaroos that the 268 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: little Joey's hang out in, it's not just a cute, 269 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: little warm, dry place. It's actually full of like slimy, 270 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: amniotic fluid type stuff. It is very gross. I know 271 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: a lot of unhelpful and fascinating kangaroo facts which we 272 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: don't we don't need to get here, but all I'm 273 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: the only reason I'm saying that is to point out that, yes, no, 274 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: you are, you are correct. It is it is not 275 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: a like a cozy It's not like that cozy little 276 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: side pocket you get on some jenes. It tot or 277 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: it would be if that was filled with snut when 278 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: you bought it. Absolutely absolutely spot on. So I mentioned 279 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: earlier the idea of live and dead animals being a 280 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: part of this trade. Um the dead animals were just 281 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: as important as the live, and in fact that those 282 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: are the ones we still think of today. That kind 283 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: of codify Britain's kind of empire building influence across the planet. 284 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: You know, the idea of like huntsmen or like some 285 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: like moneyed British royal or business person in their lodge. 286 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: You know, with all these severed taxidermy heads of different 287 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: animals they killed, um, you know, on safari or whatever. 288 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: This is almost a stereotypical image of imperialism. If you 289 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: think about during the reign of Queen Victoria, there was 290 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: an Indian based taxidermy company uh called Van ingen and 291 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: van ingen Um that stuffed close to forty three thousand 292 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: wild animals, including tigers and leopards and more between nineteen 293 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: hundred and uh nineteen fifty. So this is like well 294 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: beyond the era that we're specifically discussing today, but just 295 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: so you know how far this stuff goes. And this 296 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: was to supply the European and Indian demands for these 297 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: types of trophies that we're talking about, uh, and they 298 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: would you know, travel across the globe to you know, 299 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: get these specimens and then you know, stuff and mount them. 300 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: Um to Filippo's trophy type rooms that we're talking about. Yeah, yep, 301 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: And these animals weren't always just for show. Turtle feast 302 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: had a became a really popular fad in the city 303 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: of London. Like it wasn't a respectable social dinner unless 304 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: there was freshly prepared turtle. And this is one this 305 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: is one of the most pretentious things. This bothers me 306 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: because I like this animal. Eventually, at some point the 307 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: most well to do with aristocrats could have must have 308 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: their wigs dressed with bear grease and only bear grease, 309 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: and thousands of barrels of bear grease came from Arkansas 310 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: and this almost led to the extinction of bears in Arkansas. 311 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: Bears from Russia were fattened up and potential customers would 312 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: sometimes travel to witness the removal of fat from the 313 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: bear corpse is a guarantee they weren't getting swindled with 314 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: pig fat. This like this gets into some gross territory. 315 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: I think we should also note, for some foreshadowing here 316 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: that um, this did not come without cost for the 317 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: common people. The tiger that's just out wandering the streets 318 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: of London isn't gonna say, hey, I am gonna attack 319 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: the people who brought me here. They're just you know, 320 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: all humans are on the menu. So you can see 321 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: stories of panthers tearing off women's arms. You can see 322 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: stories of people getting their clothing attacked when they got 323 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: too close to a creature in a menagerie. Uh. There's 324 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: also a guy named well, a lion named Wallace the 325 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: Lion in the eighteen twenties who was famous for tearing 326 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: the hands and other limbs off three people on several 327 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: different occasions. He actually went to Derby. He escaped in 328 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: Derbyshire rather and killed a guy one time, but he 329 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: was not put down. It was returned to captivity because 330 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: they had already been so much investment in these creatures, 331 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: and indeed they became more successful, more profitable when they 332 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: had a bloody story in their past. Right now, you're 333 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: not seeing a regular lion, You're seeing a man eater. Uh. Yeah, 334 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: this is crazy. I love you mentioned Queen Victoria because 335 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: during her reign there was this explosion and construction of 336 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: all kinds of venues for seeing exotic animals private as 337 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: well as available to the public. Like zoos today, some 338 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: of it had ties to more of a scientific bent, 339 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, like we are learning more about the natural world, 340 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: which is a noble thing to do. Others were definitely 341 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: more kind of like a Barnum and Bailey type circus acts, 342 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: you know. So here's the other thing. This trade was unregulated. 343 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: All you needed to have was this scratch the starting capital. Uh. 344 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: It's true that the very first what we would call 345 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: animal welfare laws had been passed, and there were people saying, hey, 346 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: maybe we're going too far with the fur trade. A 347 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: lot of these animals are dying in transport, but that's 348 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: not something a lot of people wanted to hear. They 349 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: were more interested in having their turtle soup their tigers. 350 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: And there there bear grease wigs, which is still weird 351 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: to me that that was the like, of all the 352 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: things you could do with a bear, that's that's the 353 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: thing you want to brag about. So it's like some 354 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: really good grease man. I mean, what do you want? 355 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: You know, you when you win, the heart wants what 356 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: the heart wants, I guess so, and so does the wig. 357 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: So at this point, at this point, I believe it's 358 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: time for us to introduce Charles jam Rock you know, 359 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: it's funny you were mentioning this off air. I'm pretty 360 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: sure that we have some restaurants in Atlanta who are 361 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: named after Charles jam Rock. I don't know. They're named 362 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: after him. That spelled j A M R O c K, 363 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: which to me, I don't know. I think of like reggae. 364 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: Mu sick is like like roots rock reggae, you know, 365 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: like jam with jam and you know all that, like 366 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: that's a Bob Marley song and all of that, the whalers. 367 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: So the idea of jam rock to me seems like 368 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a very reggae kind of concept because these are in 369 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: fact Jamaican restaurants that were talking about. But yeah, Charles 370 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: jam Rock was not Jamaican at all. He was German heritage. 371 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: He was born in Hamburg, Germany, in eighteen fifteen as 372 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: Charles Christian jam Rock. That's my middle name actually, And 373 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: he went on to become a pre eminent dealer, as 374 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: we mentioned, the top of a wild and exotic creatures, 375 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: everything from birds to you know, four legged guys, whatever, 376 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: whatever was in demand, he could get you one wabat's Yeah, 377 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: he very much. So we'll get to that. And he 378 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: actually got the help of his father to establish this 379 00:22:53,520 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: vast trading network supplying to Zoo's menagerie, circuses, museums. Anyone 380 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: that was in need of a wild preacher, dead or alive, 381 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: he had their back. This was all during nineteenth century Europe, 382 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and even the famous English poet Dante, not the not 383 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: Dante allegory, but the British poet Dante Gabrielle Rosetti. Um, 384 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: he bought a wombat, his beloved pet wombat, from our 385 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: guy jam Rock. You gotta have one. A wombat is 386 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: like the It's like old Yeller for poets. You gotta 387 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: you gotta have what I want to. I want to 388 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: step back because the reason was setting up the Jamaican 389 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: restaurant joke here, which I'm gonna I'm gonna keep. I'm 390 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: just gonna make that my reality. Jam jam Rock is 391 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: spelled J A M R A C H. And made 392 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: the uh. After looking through some pronunciation possibilities, I just 393 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: decided to say jam Rock as well. For this it 394 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: sounds schooler. If you are a descendant of old C. C. 395 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: J himself and you have a preferred pronunciation, that's fine, 396 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: please right in love to hear it. But but this 397 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: guy followed. Like he said, he followed in his dad's footsteps, 398 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: and it made sense to his father is able to 399 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: help him because his father knew the trade, the trade rights. 400 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: He was very much set up to be that guy. Yeah, 401 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: he had insider information. He knew what was coming off 402 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: the boats and often knew when because he was a 403 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: harbor master, so he had the connects. In eighteen thirty nine, 404 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: Charles his brother Anton, moves to London to start his 405 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: own animal trade business, following in dear Old DAWs footsteps. 406 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: But unfortunately Anton passes away very soon after he arrives, 407 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: and this is an opportunity for Charles to take over 408 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: the business. After charles father expires in eighteen forty, there's 409 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: a tough series of years for Charles. Uh he moves 410 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: to London himself. He takes over. He opens an exotic 411 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: pet store and a museum of natural history called jam 412 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: Rocks Animal Emporium. I love it when people use the 413 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: word emporium. I am such a sucker for the word emporium. 414 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: I've been in so many tourist traps in the middle 415 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: of nowhere, America just because someone slapped emporium on their 416 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, on their kitch store, So thank you emporiums uh. 417 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: He also had a so he had the emporium on St. 418 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: George Street. He had another outfit, a menagerie on Bet Street. 419 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: And there's a pretty great uh. There's a pretty great 420 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: description of this from the Spectator in one where they 421 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: say Mr Childs jam Rock the wild Beast banners. He's 422 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: sometimes familiarly called never failed to have a large assortment 423 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: of tigers and lines on hand. The passages between the 424 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: two stories of cages would never and walk and walk 425 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: down them was occasionally like running the gauntlet. So they're 426 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: they're trying to sort of articulate the excitement, the endorphin rush, 427 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: the thrill of danger people experience because the animals, without 428 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: reading the whole quote right, the animals pause can reach people. 429 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: This is not like a modern zoo. There's not like 430 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: a pit and you know, a large fence. There's a cage. 431 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: And so if you walk too slow, you know, as 432 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: anybody like the three of us all have cats living 433 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: with us. If you walk by just a regular house 434 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: cat and it's feeling, you know, kind of in a 435 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: punching mood, they'll just swat at you, give you a swat, 436 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: give you a good old swat, and if you get 437 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: a little claw that it connects, you might end up 438 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: with a slice. Uh. And this is a you know, 439 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: significantly smaller cat than what we would be dealing with 440 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: in these emporiums or or Mr jam Rocks emporium. So 441 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: if you call one of those wipes, it might like 442 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, lose you a limb or the very least, 443 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, give you a serious injury you Oh yeah, yeah, 444 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: and uh, this is I can see this because this 445 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: is kind of embarrassing. That's why I found out cat 446 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: scratch fever is a real thing, not just the ted 447 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: nugent song. I actually one time got cat scratch fever 448 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: as a kid. Isn't it like a like a pair 449 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: a site almost It makes you like do bow to 450 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: the will of your feline masters. That's toxoplasmosis. Cat scratch fever. 451 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: Is cat scratch fever? Is you bacterial infection? And if 452 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: you if a cat bites you or scratches you. All 453 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: I remember is I got a fever and then I 454 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: had like, uh swollen area of my body. But I 455 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: got over it. I survived no toxoplasmosis, which I would 456 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: always love to avoid. But people weren't worried about toxoplasmosis. 457 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: They probably weren't too worried about cat scratch fever. They 458 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: wanted the thrill of feeling like they had escaped the 459 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: jaguar or a tiger. And so jam Rock is blowing up. 460 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: He's starting to be known as sort of world class 461 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: in the business, which he was, and more and more 462 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: people very well to do. People started to come to 463 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: him and say things like, misso, jam Rock, I'm follow 464 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: your career with great interest, and I've always wanted to 465 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: own in Almadillo, And like literally they would say this. 466 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: They would come to him and request specific animals and 467 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: he would he would say, you know, I imagine we 468 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: can work something out. And people would buy elephants and 469 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: like you said, parakeets and cause all kinds of stuff 470 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: from him. He also started networking. It's funny man at 471 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: our at our favorite local wing spot, and we shout 472 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: out all the time, called the local one of the 473 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: guys who works there, and I'm not gonna disclose his name. 474 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: He has a world class meteorite collection, like museum level. 475 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: And I was talking and I think you know the 476 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: guy know And I was talking to him about I 477 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: was like, how do you find these things? How does 478 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: it work? And he has a network of dealers across 479 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: the world, like when a meteorite falls, he knows the 480 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: guys who get on the plane to find it, which 481 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: is sort of like how jam Rock was with his 482 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: network that you know, he pretty much inherited from his dad, 483 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: I think, right, like he built upon it, but came 484 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: from his dad. Oh totally. I mean, that's the thing. 485 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean. Even though this was very big in London, 486 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: this whole exotic animal trade, it was probably a network 487 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: of only a handful of top top players, of which 488 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: jam Rock was like the a number one, And I 489 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: think we said they were like a hundred and something 490 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: dealers in London, which is a massive, massive metro area. 491 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: So you know, he was kind of, uh, the top 492 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: of the heap when it came to this relatively niche 493 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: industry because if after all, you could only afford this 494 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: if you were of a certain class, So this wouldn't 495 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: have been something like you know, necessities like you know, 496 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: food and grain and things like that, that would have 497 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: obviously been on a much much larger scale. Um even 498 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: as larger scales this was it was still only for 499 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: a very select few. But the thing that I think 500 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: is neat and probably one reason we still talk about 501 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: this guy today, was because he started to develop all 502 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: these relationships with these really important uh institutions in London 503 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: like the Natural History Museum and the Zoological Gardens is 504 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: now known as the London Zoo UM. So when he 505 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, would have overflow on his and his you 506 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: know pens or his facilities or whatever, uh, he would 507 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: essentially allow the Zoological Gardens to store these creatures for 508 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: him and it would be almost like a trial basis 509 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 1: where if the animals were a hit with you know, 510 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: the spectators, then the zoo would actually buy it from him. 511 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: So he had this kind of built in um relationship 512 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: with those guys that would help him sort of clear 513 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: some of his creatures out if if they were sticking 514 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: around for too long. Yeah yeah, no audition process, Uh well, 515 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: non consensual on the animals part. And you know a 516 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: lot of these animals are from very different climates, so unfortunately, 517 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: unless they were unless a lot of TLC was put 518 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: into their diet, they wouldn't last long once they arrived. 519 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: If they made it off the ship alive. And because 520 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: of that rate of attrition. Because so many animals were 521 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: dying in transit or within the first few weeks or 522 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: months after arriving, jam Rock naturally developed that side hustle 523 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: you were mentioning with taxidermy. He got more and more 524 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: and more and more successful. We're talking waiting list for animals, 525 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: stuff like that. People are kissing his keyst just to 526 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: get on his good side and maybe jump the line 527 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: a little bit. And in eighteen fifty seven, at the 528 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: high point of his success, he gets his crown jewel, 529 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: a fully grown Bengal tiger that came to England from 530 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: the East Indies. This takes us to that morning we 531 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: talked about the very top, the morning of October when 532 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: the tiger and several other large felines by the way 533 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: arrives at the Belt Street. Nagerie, whoa hold the phone? 534 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: Hold the horses grabbed the tigers. This is a two parter. 535 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: We have just gotten to the introduction of our main character, 536 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: not our protagonist. I would argue, it's also Christmas, so 537 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: give us a break. You know it's a two partner. 538 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: Come on, let us have this, please, we love you. 539 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: The next press is gonna be a lot of fun 540 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: and it happens this week, so not even that long 541 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: to wait. In the meantime, why not reach out to us, 542 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: send us an email. We've got one, right, Ben, we 543 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: do well. You guys have what I'm still trying to 544 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: get access to Ridiculous at I Heart media dot com. 545 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: But give us, drop us a line, let us know. 546 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: As always, we want to hear your strange animal encounters 547 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: from your neck of the global woods. You can also 548 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: tell us about that on Ridiculous Historians at Facebook. While 549 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: you're on the internet, you can make friends with us, 550 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: not just as I show, but as individuals and Ben 551 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: Bowling on Instagram bo w l I n Ben Bowling 552 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: hs W on Twitter get a look at my various 553 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: various misadventures. Um candidly, I had to be off social 554 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: media for a little bit, but I'm getting back to 555 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: it slowly but surely. Can't wait to hear from everybody. Yep, 556 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: you can find me on social media as well. I 557 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: am exclusively on Instagram at how now Noel Brown, We'll 558 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: see act folks. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 559 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 560 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.