1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. Hey, it's wanha Heir 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: from the Big Take team. Today we want to share 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: with you an episode about Indonesia trying to build a 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: new capital city from scratch. Now, this ambitious plan was 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: a crown jewel of former President Joko Wadodo known as Jacobe. 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: This episode was first published in September when Jacob was 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: still in office, and since then Indonesia's got a new president, 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: Proboo Subianto, and he says he's committed to building the 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: new capital. But how do you replace a century's old 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: capital city and convince millions of people to uproot their 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: lives and start anew Jakarta, Indonesia's biggest city, is in 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: trouble right now. 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: So many vehicles on the roads at one time. It 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: makes the city overcrowded and congested and polluted. 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: Forres Mark dar is a Bloomberg government reporter based in Jakarta. 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: The pollution, or hayes was so bad. It is a 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: very very common sight. If you walk down the streets, 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: there are people wearing masks and traffic is so bad 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: people actually do meetings in cars. 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: The gridlock costs an estimated six and a half billion 21 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: US dollars a year in lost productivity for the greater 22 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Jakarta area. And on top of that, the city itself 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: is sinking. 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: I think forty percent of Jakarta the capital is under 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: sea level, and in some parts of northern Jakarta it's 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 3: sinking eleven inches a year. 27 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 2: Some of the hottest hit areas have really subsided by 28 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: more than sixteen feet in terms of high that's slightly 29 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: shorter than a two story apartment if you can visualize it. 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: Experts say the city only has until twenty thirty to 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: figure out how to stop the sinking and breathing, mass flooding, 32 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: and millions getting displaces. 33 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Jagarta is home to more than ten million people and 34 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: is the center for the Indonesian government. So what's the 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: country to do when it's capital is overwhelmed by explosive growth. 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: In the case of Indonesia, the world's fourth most populous country, 37 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: the answer is to build a new one from scratch. 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: The new capital is a huge priority for the country's president, Djokovidodo, 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: better known as Jacoe, who sees it as an opportunity 40 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: to help transform Indonesia into a high incomnation. So it's 41 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: in the same league economically as other countries in the 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: region such as Japan and China. 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: Under Jakoby's Tenye Tanio, he has gone on this ambitious, 44 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: massive infrastructure spree, costing hundreds of billions of dollars. He's 45 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: building the hardware because the unnecessary for Indonesia's long term 46 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 2: economic growth, and this new capital is say is not 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: just the crown jewel of Jocoi's ambitious infrastructures free, it 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: is also the centerpiece of his legacy. 49 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: Here's President Jacobe talking to Bloomberg about the project in 50 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. 51 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: Hopefully few people will drive cars. A green city, a 52 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: smart city, and a forest. 53 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: City for a city. 54 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: In August, there was a big party for the new 55 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: capital city called Nucenthara. Eight thousand people were supposed to 56 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: cheer the inauguration of the city, but the inauguration that 57 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: had been planned didn't happen. In the end, the celebration, 58 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: which was pegged to the country's independence day, was muted. 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: Just thirteen hundred people attended against a backdrop of half 60 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: completed buildings and construction cranes, and for now Jakarta remains 61 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: the official capital. 62 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: The satellite images that we acquired. I mean you can 63 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: look that road sustain being laid out. Workers have said that, 64 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, during rainy season it's tough to construct. The 65 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: land is a very muddy. The project really is still 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: at its infancy. 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 68 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: Every week we take you inside some of the world's 69 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and 70 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, 71 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: Indonesia's ambitious project to build a new capital city from 72 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: the ground up is falling short, and its biggest champion, 73 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: President Jacoe, is running out of time to track the 74 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: investment needed to finish it. What's likely to happen next, 75 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: and what's at stake if the project fails. The idea 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 1: of moving Indonesia's capital was brought up by the country's 77 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: first president way back in nineteen fifty seven, but it 78 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: wasn't until twenty nineteen that President Djoko Wadodo formally announced 79 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: the plan to relocate the capitol. He pitched it as 80 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: a new, green, high tech city that would take pressure 81 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: off the sinking and congested capital city of Jakarta. Here 82 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: he is in twenty nineteen, talking to Bloomberg editor in 83 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: chief John Michaelswaet about his vision, Hanya. 84 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: Go. 85 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 3: We are moving the capitol to Kalimantan because there are 86 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: no earthquakes, no floods. We want to have an efficient 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: and effective capital where we can walk, we can ride bikes, 88 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 3: we can use public transportation. Hopefully few people will drive cars. 89 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: Jacobe said he wanted Nucenthara to have an environmentally friendly 90 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: transportation system and that he wanted the city to achieve 91 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: net zero carbon emissions. That's a far cry from the 92 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: crippling traffic, gridlock and air pollution that's challenging the current capital. 93 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: The idea is they are learning from the experiences of Jakarta. 94 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: Here's Bloomberg's far As Makdar again. 95 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: They do not want congestion. They certainly do not want 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: that many cars or bikes on the roads. They definitely 97 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: do not want to have polluted air. It wants the 98 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: new capital to be this smart forest city powered by renewables. 99 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: And Jacoby and other leaders also see the new capital 100 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: as a way to spread wealth more evenly across the 101 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: country instead of it being so concentrated on the island. 102 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: Of Java where Jakarta is. Here's President Jacobi again. 103 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: ATADITOA. 104 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 3: One hundred and fifty million people are in Java, but 105 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: we have seventeen thousand islands. Fifty eight percent of GDP 106 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: is concentrated in Java. We need to distribute the population 107 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: and economy to other islands. Em Gone. 108 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: The government said it expects the new capital to create 109 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: more than four million jobs over the next two decades 110 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: and to help attract new foreign investment to what is 111 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:09,679 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia's largest economy. But building a new city isn't easy, 112 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: especially when that new capital is more than six hundred 113 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: miles away on a different island in the Borneo Rainforest. 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: In Indonesia's multi billion dollar new capital has been plagued 115 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: with problems from the start. Forrest says the plan to 116 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: gradually move more than ten thousand civil servants, the president 117 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: and his cabinet to the new capital has already been 118 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: postponed twice. 119 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: The relocation plans have definitely been pushed back. They are 120 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: still testing out the water supply and also to make 121 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: sure that the water is clean. There's also issue of 122 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: access to electricity that's still being hashed out, but it's 123 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: basically far from complete. 124 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: Satellite imagery that Bloomberg obtained shows as recently as mid July, 125 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: nearly one hundred acres of land around the heart of 126 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: the city. It's just dirt and standing water. Construction is 127 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: complete at just one office building that will be used 128 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: by government agencies, and when civil servants do arrive, they 129 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: may have to share rooms and work from temporary quarters 130 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: such as cafeterias. And even the project's champion, President Jakoe, 131 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: admitted that his first night in the new unfinished presidential 132 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: palace was rough. 133 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: Reporters actually asked him, you know, how is your first 134 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: night sleeping here? And he was like, it wasn't good. 135 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, and it will take some time getting 136 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: used to. And so what you're saying now is a 137 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: more tempered response. They are essentially walking back on that 138 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: optimism because it is far from ready, and Jokobi himself 139 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: said that the project is only fifteen percent complete, so 140 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: no one is moving there at this point in time. 141 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: Well, I guess the bigger question is do people even 142 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: want to move there even if it's ready. 143 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: That is a good question because even when the idea 144 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: was made public, there was initial skepticism and that skepticism 145 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: grew over the last couple of years, primarily because this 146 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: is a near capital that is located in the middle 147 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: of nowhere. It's in the middle of the jungle in 148 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: the island of Borneo, far from like you know, the 149 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: fancy bars and restaurants of Jakarta, far from the shopping 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: madels and all that far It says. 151 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: The government has been offering tax incentives to civil servants 152 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: and even came out with a plan targeting those who 153 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,119 Speaker 1: were single to move there, but he said the response 154 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: has been less than enthusiastic. 155 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: According to local media reports is that these civil servants 156 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: didn't want to move. Some of them either resigned from 157 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: the government, some asked for postings outside of Jakarta in 158 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: the other provinces, and some of the singles also chose 159 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: to get married and have kids. They are finding any 160 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 2: excuse they can to not move. 161 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Another group of people who've been less than enthusiastic about 162 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: the new capital are private investors. According to the official estimate, 163 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: the project is expected to cost roughly twenty nine billion dollars, 164 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: and the government has said eighty percent of that cost 165 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: will need to be covered by private investors, both local 166 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: and foreign. Initially, foreign investment did look promising. Companies like 167 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: SoftBank offered to invest up to forty billion US dollars 168 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: toward the project, but before construction even began in August 169 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two, they pulled out. SoftBank declined to 170 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: comment on its decision. 171 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 2: They didn't specify why EZACLY or gave any clear reasons 172 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 2: or explanation, but that sent the signal that hey, maybe 173 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: they did not have confidence that Indonesia could pull off 174 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 2: this project. 175 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: After the break, Can Indonesia raise the money it needs 176 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: to finish the new capital and what will it mean 177 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: for the country and the rest of the world if 178 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: it fails. So far, Indonesia has spent around four point 179 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: six billion dollars to finance its new capital city, Nucenthara, 180 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: but it estimates it needs over twenty four billion more 181 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: to complete the project. The government wants that money to 182 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: come from local and foreign investors, but so far local 183 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: investors haven't seen that interested. Despite incentives like tax breaks 184 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: and long term property rights, Nucentaura has attracted less than 185 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: three point two billion dollars in local investments. And as 186 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: for foreign investors. 187 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: What has been happening in the last couple of years 188 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: is that Indonesia has yet to secure a single foreign 189 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: private investor in the new capital city, and so the 190 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 2: financing is stuck in that sense, and that adds to 191 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: the complications of building this new capital city. 192 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: Back in twenty nineteen, there was serious interest in the 193 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: project from foreign investors. So why has that interest dwindled? 194 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: I think a key part of that is basically because 195 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: you know, number one, it is really a gargantuan project. 196 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: It is super ambitious, and you know, there is a 197 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: concern whether Indonesia can pull it off. Now, another key 198 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: factor was that this project, you know, the construction started 199 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: at the tail end of Djocovi's residency. And so what 200 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: happened from twenty tweeny two onwards was that a lot 201 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: of the foreign investor community they adopted a weight and 202 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: see approach because they did not want to be in 203 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: a situation where I invest my money right now hundreds 204 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: of millions or more, only for the project not to 205 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: advance under a new administration. 206 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: The change in leaders comes at a time when Indonesia 207 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: is under pressure to spur economic growth and forre says 208 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: the country's next leader, President elect Proboo Subianto, has his 209 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: own agenda. 210 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,359 Speaker 2: His very focused on welfare policies such as distributing females 211 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: to children, ramping up healthcare infrastructure, boosting the quality of education, 212 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: making sure that the housing infrastructure for the low income 213 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: Indonesians are met, and that will require a lot of spending. 214 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Proboo said he's committed to continue and if possible, finish 215 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: the new capital. 216 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: The key question when it comes to the construction of 217 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: the new capital city will be what is the pace 218 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: of the construction. So what the analysts have pointed out 219 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: is that what future administrations can do is perhaps prolong 220 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: it or delay it. 221 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: Plagued by construction delays in financing woes, far says it 222 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: will take years before Indonesia and the rest of the 223 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: world will know. If this megaproject ultimately pans. 224 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: Out, Indonesia could actually be offering a blueprint and a 225 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: template for other emerging markets. It will offer the other 226 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: countries a lot of learning points, a lot of lessons, 227 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 2: and it would be Indonesia's great success story if they 228 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: can pull it off. Now, there is also the other scenario, 229 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: which is all doman gloom, that this could end up 230 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: as a total failure, that this new capital might not 231 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: actually take off because given that they've already missed the 232 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: first dateline of construction, that isn't really inspiring confidence that 233 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: Indonesia can pull off such an ambitious real estate project. 234 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: And should it really not take off, then Jocob we 235 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: could end up in the history books for the wrong reasons. 236 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm 237 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: wan ha. This episode was produced by Young Young Naomi, 238 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: Jessica Beck, and Adriana Tapia. It was edited by Caitlin Kenny, 239 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: Jeff Grocott, Lisa Bayer, and Claire Jow. It was mixed 240 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: by Blake Maples and fact checked by Jessica and Eddie Duane. 241 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponzo. Nicole Binksterbower is our 242 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: executive producer, and Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. 243 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: If you like our show, please leave us a review 244 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and please tell your friends 245 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: it makes a huge difference. Thanks and see you next time.