1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

2
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: Never told your production of I Heart Radio. Yes, and

3
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 1: today we are finally tackling an episode topic we have

4
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 1: been wanting to do for a while now and so

5
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: excited to bring on an expert in the field who

6
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 1: has been all up in the world of brewing. Oh. Yes,

7
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,120
Speaker 1: we love beer and she's been there for a long time.

8
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Welcome Jim, thank you, Thank you both for having me.

9
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm super excited to be here. I've listened to this

10
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 1: podcast since way back in the day, so this is

11
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:53,480
Speaker 1: like kind of surreal to actually be on it. Yes. Yes,

12
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 1: we're very excited to have you. I know I've been

13
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: talking about this for so long, Like Annie the perfect

14
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 1: person to talk about beer because we love we love beer.

15
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 1: We have a happy Hour. We featured a beer that

16
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 1: we will talk about soon that you helped creating, and

17
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be awesome.

18
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: But before we can get all into that, will you

19
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,399
Speaker 1: introduce yourself for our listeners? Yes, definitely so so. I

20
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 1: am Jen Blair and I am jokingly not jokingly described

21
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 1: myself as being all beer all the time. Um, I

22
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,920
Speaker 1: am an Advanced ciserone, so that is the the equivalent

23
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 1: um cisserone is the equivalent to Smalley A for the

24
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: wine world. I actually took my Master sister in exam

25
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: last month and I am expecting my results any day now.

26
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,759
Speaker 1: I'm expecting to take it again because specifically speaking, most

27
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 1: people don't pass on their first time. But that is

28
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: the equivalent to Master Salmollier for wine. I'm also a

29
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 1: National b j CP judge, So b j CP is

30
00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 1: Beer Judge Certification Program. Um. I been a National b

31
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: j c P judge for a couple of years now,

32
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: and I'm working also on getting that Master b j

33
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 1: c P designation. Hopefully in two I'll be able to

34
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 1: make that happen. Uh. So, you know, I do a

35
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 1: lot with within the brewing industry. I've jokingly been referred

36
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,079
Speaker 1: to as a Swiss army knife with the kind of

37
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,079
Speaker 1: the different skill sets that I brought and that I've

38
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 1: picked up since I've been in the beer industry. But

39
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 1: really the core of what I do is talking to

40
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 1: people about beer, educating people about beer, making sure that

41
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 1: they understand that beer is accessible to them. Yes, I

42
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: love that, and uh, we've got to sit together for

43
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,919
Speaker 1: a little while not too long ago, to talk about, Yeah,

44
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: the vast amount of experience that you've had in the

45
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 1: beer world and just your history is amazing, and that

46
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 1: that you've really pursued it to where you've gotten to

47
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 1: is an amazing because we don't see many women who

48
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 1: even feel like they can't get to this point and

49
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,919
Speaker 1: get to the point that you're at and really strive

50
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 1: to do this in such a really male dominated field.

51
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,079
Speaker 1: But we'll get into that in a minute. And yeah,

52
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 1: it makes me miss beer a lot being in the

53
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 1: industry and all I did was serve and kind of

54
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 1: learned very little about the beer. Started studying for this

55
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 1: is a road and I was like, oh my god,

56
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: what is this because we had like textbook on textbook

57
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,680
Speaker 1: a lot. We need to talk about the hops and

58
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,920
Speaker 1: the barley. I'm like, I feel like, yeah, definitely, like

59
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 1: you need to go to school for this and that's

60
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 1: kind of the way you're doing it. Um, But before

61
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: we start that, how did you get into the brewing

62
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 1: in beer industry? You know, I got I'm not alone

63
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: in this. I've actually found a few people who got

64
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 1: into the beer industry in sort of a similar way.

65
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 1: But before I was in the beer industry, I actually

66
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 1: worked as an attorney and it did not really enjoy

67
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: it all that that much. It turns out that, um

68
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,839
Speaker 1: it's not like what you see on TV, and not

69
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 1: everybody yeah, not everybody gets to, you know, go work

70
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 1: for a nonprofit. So I wasn't really very happy in

71
00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: the legal industry. I had been homebrewing for a few years,

72
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 1: and like everyone who starts homebrewing, if you've ever been

73
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 1: around a new homebrewer, they able homebrew for a few

74
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: months and be like, you know what, I'm going to

75
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: open a brewery like this is my my neighbors like

76
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,600
Speaker 1: my beer, my friends like my beer. Um, so this

77
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 1: is a viable business option for me. So I, you know,

78
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,280
Speaker 1: from homebrewing, knew that I was really interested in brewing

79
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,720
Speaker 1: beer and also learning more about beer, and knew that

80
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,599
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be very easy for me to

81
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,040
Speaker 1: make a lateral move into a new industry, particularly coming

82
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: from an industry that is um known for that. Then

83
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't true for very many people in

84
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 1: the legal industry, but a lot of people see that

85
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: as this is someplace where you make a ton of

86
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: money and you know you're very successful all the time,

87
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: and that's really just not the reality. Um, so I

88
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,920
Speaker 1: knew I was going to be running into some barriers

89
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,039
Speaker 1: from people who, you know, think that, Okay, maybe you

90
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: want to do this for now, because I don't know

91
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 1: if you all know this, but there's not a ton

92
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,520
Speaker 1: of money for people in the brewing industry. But yeah,

93
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 1: that's when I started down the path of pursuing this

94
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 1: our own certifications, starting beer judging. I started a beer

95
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 1: blog back when people had beer blogs all kind of

96
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 1: a ways to show that I was committed to learning

97
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,280
Speaker 1: what I could about being in this industry and was

98
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,080
Speaker 1: was actually starting to get a little frustrated because the

99
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 1: jobs I was seeing that were available in the brewing

100
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 1: industry weren't necessarily jobs I wanted to do. Uh. So,

101
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, finally I sat down and just wrote out

102
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 1: a job description for myself, what is it that I

103
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: would like to do, because up until that point, I

104
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,920
Speaker 1: had really just been defining what I didn't want to do.

105
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 1: And within a couple of months of sitting down and

106
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 1: really articulating where I was interested in going in the

107
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 1: in the brewing industry, I saw a job posting for

108
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: an executive director for the North American Craft Monsters Guild.

109
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: I thought that there was no way that I would

110
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: get hired for it. I almost didn't apply, and I

111
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 1: did apply and I did get higher and so I

112
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: joined that, as you know, on the supply side as

113
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 1: the first executive director of the Craft Monsters Guild. And

114
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 1: from there really just continue to pursue beer sensory beer education,

115
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 1: starting to do more trainings. Uh. You know, people consumers

116
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 1: really want to learn about beer, and it's it's incredibly

117
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: interesting no matter what you're you know, no matter where

118
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 1: your interests lie, there is something you can learn in

119
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 1: beer history that's going to deepen your knowledge of whatever

120
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 1: your field is that you're interested in. So from there

121
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 1: I moved into working in breweries and more of an

122
00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:51,359
Speaker 1: educator role um and now I am building a few

123
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 1: different projects in terms of continuing to make beer accessible

124
00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 1: to everyone. And yeah, I think your key point of

125
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 1: being making it accessible, that's one of the big things

126
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 1: that we do talk a lot about about who who

127
00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,359
Speaker 1: is it made for, who is it geared towards, and

128
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: how is the ads going and who actually is a

129
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 1: part of this industry. And you and I talked again

130
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 1: because things have been happening in the industry. Our audience

131
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 1: knows because we have been talking about it, the me

132
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: too movements that's been happening. We even had episodes about

133
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 1: how the sexist idea that men drink beer, women drink wine,

134
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 1: men eat me, women drink eat salads, like that type

135
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 1: of narrative, which is really damaging and unfair for any

136
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 1: gender saying that in any way. And it's always shocking

137
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 1: to me to know the history of things, and we've

138
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 1: talked about it before, like the history of beer is

139
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: it was started by women. They were the ones that

140
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 1: were making the beer. They were the ones that had

141
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: the market, and they did it for many other reasons

142
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: like saving grains and such and all that, and then

143
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: we come to the point of maybe not completely historically

144
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 1: in context, but yeah, witchcraft was a part of this

145
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 1: uh industry as well, that even some who men became

146
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 1: competitive and realizing damn, there's some money in this and

147
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,800
Speaker 1: maybe accusing some of the l wives of being witches

148
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: so they can kick out the competition. That's a whole

149
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: other conversation in itself. But when we look at the

150
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: numbers and when we talk about who's involved and yet

151
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: who is allowed to be involved. Accessibility? Is that key point?

152
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: Why do you think this is important and why do

153
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that comes back up again again? Yeah,

154
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's absolutely important because for you know, for me,

155
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 1: I want to be in the industry and I have

156
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: a valuable contribution to make, and you know, so does

157
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: so does anybody who wants to be in the industry.

158
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: And it's it's just so important. You know, with craft

159
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,840
Speaker 1: beer specifically, there was the Sam cal Gione quote about

160
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, craft beer is asked free and it's like,

161
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: how many women did you ask? Like what was your

162
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 1: sample size? For? You know, we're getting this information, um,

163
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 1: And so for a long time, it was very much

164
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: this we're all good guys, beers. Fun. Beer is just

165
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,319
Speaker 1: supposed to be fun, and if you are having an

166
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: issue with it, that's you issue. That's not something with

167
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 1: this industry, because in this industry, we're all about fun

168
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's very toxic and that has

169
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: really permeated the industry. And I've sortunately spoken with men

170
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 1: who have said, well, gosh, I've seen some things happen,

171
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 1: but I didn't know it was this bad. And it's

172
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,560
Speaker 1: like yes you did. And now now it's just very

173
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,800
Speaker 1: difficult to ignore or to pretend like you didn't see that.

174
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: And if you've ever told a woman server, you know, hey,

175
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 1: you handled that really well, you probably could have stepped

176
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 1: in right. And um, it's it's just so important that again,

177
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 1: anyone who wants access understands that they have access. And

178
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 1: it's um and that's not always the case, you know,

179
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 1: And there's again going back to the craft beer industry,

180
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: is we're all just having fun. This is all just

181
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: a fun group of people for who though, you know who?

182
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,800
Speaker 1: Who is that a fun industry for? And who is

183
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 1: allowed to have fun? Who's allowed to even be in

184
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 1: the room and at the table. And it can be exhausting.

185
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,720
Speaker 1: I mean there have been times when I've said I'm

186
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 1: not going to do you know, this this beer industry thing,

187
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 1: because I don't feel like fighting. I don't feel like

188
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 1: showing up and having to really prove that not only

189
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,320
Speaker 1: do I know what I'm talking about, I probably know

190
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,040
Speaker 1: more than what anybody else in the room knows, right,

191
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 1: And you know, and having just those assumptions made that

192
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm there as someone's wife or um, I'm you know,

193
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: I got into it because that's what boys like. And

194
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's just that whole, the whole thing, and

195
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: that's that's not the case. That's not the case for

196
00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 1: so many people. And to just be a allowed to

197
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,640
Speaker 1: feel welcome and you know, be allowed to exist in

198
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 1: the space is something that is not available to so

199
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,439
Speaker 1: many people. And you know, there there are a thousand

200
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: reasons why. And I know that you all address topics

201
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,959
Speaker 1: like this on your podcast all the time. Um, so

202
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,480
Speaker 1: it's important to have those voices to say, you don't

203
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 1: listen to the rest of them. I'm telling you that

204
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,920
Speaker 1: you have access and that you are welcome, and if

205
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,439
Speaker 1: somebody is making you feel unwelcome, then you know, let's

206
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 1: let's explore why that is. You know, let's have those

207
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: uncomfortable conversations as an industry and be willing to move

208
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 1: forward from it, right, And yeah, I love that statement.

209
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 1: Just you have the right to exist, which should be simple.

210
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 1: It really should just be like clearly easily done, but

211
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 1: it's not. Unfortunately, and especially if you're someone of the

212
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,079
Speaker 1: marginalized community, that there's more questions and yeah, there's this

213
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 1: expectation that you're going to take what is this out

214
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 1: to you just because this environment is supposed to be

215
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 1: uh small business, fun startup company that allows for abuse.

216
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 1: I guess like it's kind of like you shouldn't have

217
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: oversea like no motion to be able to oversee whether

218
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,040
Speaker 1: or not you are a good company a good person,

219
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: Like why is this even a conversation? As if we

220
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,640
Speaker 1: have to clarify why? And then bringing it out means

221
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: y'all are being to pc or over overly sensitive, which

222
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 1: is of course our favorite comments right on here. Um

223
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 1: And I found interesting down right, I think you're just

224
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: being emotional, calm down. And you know, I was founded

225
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: interesting because yeah, even though they want to say this

226
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: is just a fun we're just doing our hobbies turning

227
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 1: into a job. Great, but they want to be taken

228
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 1: seriously by businesses and industries and want to eventually become

229
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,680
Speaker 1: the company that does make millions of dollars or be

230
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 1: the next big brewery or winning all the awards as

231
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: a business for them when it comes to the money

232
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 1: and the story. And I find that interesting that as

233
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,600
Speaker 1: I was researching, like we've got some newer numbers as

234
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 1: of September showing ownership, and that they are like, you

235
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 1: know that at least sev of the companies of the brewers,

236
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 1: the owners are men, like, that's the number. However, when

237
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 1: they looked even further, like, actually, it might be even

238
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 1: less than that, and that women mayme may makeup of

239
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,240
Speaker 1: I don't know two of the owners. So that's a

240
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 1: really large number. And the fact that the I think

241
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 1: he's the chief financial advisor for the Beer Association was like, well,

242
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: our numbers may have been inflated because when we did

243
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,319
Speaker 1: send out these little random forms, it was only to

244
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760
Speaker 1: a small portion of people, and the people who are

245
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 1: most likely sending them back were women, right. And you know,

246
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 1: another interesting way to parts that out is because I've

247
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,559
Speaker 1: I've seen the Brewers Association and other industry people say,

248
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, they look at these numbers, is growing or

249
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: look at this number. And another further parsing of that

250
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,400
Speaker 1: is how many of the owners who are women are

251
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,559
Speaker 1: co owners with their spouses. And that's and I don't

252
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,040
Speaker 1: say that to to imply that there's absolutely anything wrong

253
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 1: with that, because there's not, but it's you know, I

254
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: guess you might have two percent of women, but if

255
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,040
Speaker 1: you're looking at breweries that are solely owned by women

256
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,040
Speaker 1: and not co owned with the spouses, that number gets

257
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 1: even smaller. Right, we have been trying to feature it

258
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: as many beers as we could that are female owned.

259
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: We meant women owned or at least like partially owned

260
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 1: or involved with Like you have a female brewer, you

261
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,200
Speaker 1: have a woman brewer. Wonderful, let's bring Herberia. And you're

262
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: like trying to find that and it's really hard. It is.

263
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 1: That doesn't include talking about trying to get it, like

264
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: different states getting those beers, because that's impossible in itself,

265
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 1: but even still trying to find those names. It's kind

266
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 1: of like, wow, because we may got we may have

267
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: gotten some information one month, two months later, they're not there,

268
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 1: like I do us so many times because that environment

269
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 1: was so toxic. They couldn't they couldn't last there. They

270
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 1: weren't a looted to exist there, and so they were

271
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: pushed out essentially, And I was like, damn it, what

272
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: is wrong with this industry? Like what is happening? And

273
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: what can we do? What? Like, what what is happening? Jen?

274
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: What's happening? Sure? Well, you know, so this back in May,

275
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 1: and I believe that you mentioned that you all have

276
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 1: spoken about this on the podcast before. But back in May,

277
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: Brian Allen, who at the time was a brewer for

278
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 1: Notch Brewing, in her Instagram stories said what sexist comments

279
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 1: have you gotten in the beer industry? And that actually

280
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 1: wasn't the first time that she had asked that in

281
00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 1: her stories, but it you know, it hit at the

282
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 1: right time where it was thousands of people shared their stories. Um,

283
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: I was one of them. I ended up leaving my

284
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: job because it was it was something that had been

285
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 1: building up, you know, over the course of the the

286
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 1: year and a half that I had been there, that

287
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,840
Speaker 1: finally like reading through all the other stories, you know,

288
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: there was there were things that I already knew. I

289
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 1: was called terse for asking for equal pay um during

290
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 1: an employee of evaluation, all sorts of things like that

291
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 1: that you know, telling people about it is kind of

292
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: like when you're talking I mean it is a toxic relationship, right,

293
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like when you're talking about like

294
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: your your toxic boyfriend. And I remember telling my friends

295
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 1: one night, like, you know, here's everything that's been happening,

296
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: and they were like, that's a that's a lot of

297
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: red flags and actually saying it all out loud and

298
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 1: seeing their reactions was like, oh, that's right, that's not

299
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 1: okay for somebody to treat me like that, let alone unemployee. UM.

300
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: And you know, thousands of people felt the same way.

301
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: I We're sharing their stories, and it got to such

302
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 1: a volume that the industry could not ignore it any longer.

303
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: And you know, since then, there's been a core group

304
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 1: of us who have continued to beat that drum and

305
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 1: not at all to to minimize I know that there

306
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 1: are a ton of people out there doing a ton

307
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: of work behind the scenes. And that's what we want,

308
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,440
Speaker 1: right is we want that work behind the scenes. I

309
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,879
Speaker 1: don't want social media posts. I don't want you know,

310
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,840
Speaker 1: we're listening, we are learning, you know, platitudes. I want

311
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 1: to know that there are people doing that work. UM.

312
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 1: So in the months since then, you know, we've put

313
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 1: together several different initiatives to help support historically excluded people

314
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: in the brewing industry, whether that is raising money for

315
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 1: them to have financial assistance so they're not stuck in

316
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: a job, UM, whether it is you know, helping vet

317
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: employers so people know, hey, if you see this organization

318
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: post this job, you know that this that this company

319
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 1: has been vetted UM And sometimes it's also just being

320
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 1: or I shouldn't say just sometimes it's being a sympathetic ear.

321
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I continue to have people reach

322
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 1: out to me through social media, through email, you know,

323
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 1: sometimes even in person to say, Hey, this happened or

324
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 1: this is going on at my job and I don't

325
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: know what to do about it. Um. So those conversations

326
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: really hit a fever pitch in May or June. Um

327
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,199
Speaker 1: it's been somewhat frustrating to see everybody kind of be like, Okay,

328
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: that's you know, just like we solved racism last year,

329
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: we solve sexism this year because like we posted a

330
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 1: black square, we said that we're listening to we're learning,

331
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: so we can all move on from it. And uh,

332
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, that's obviously very much not the case. And

333
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 1: so continuing to keep those conversations going and continuing to

334
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: let people know that there is support out there. And

335
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 1: you know, for me, one of the biggest things was

336
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 1: realized sing that I wasn't alone, that this wasn't happening

337
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 1: to me in isolation, because that was something that was

338
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: very much happening. After I left, I heard from several

339
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: other employees, and I heard from employees while I was there,

340
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: who said, this has been happening to me, but I

341
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 1: didn't have anybody to talk to you or I didn't

342
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 1: know who to talk to, and the you know, the

343
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: the company, the management very much kept it that way,

344
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 1: kept people isolated from each other, kind of kept information

345
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,919
Speaker 1: from people, and a lot of people feel that isolation

346
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 1: and so seen other people share those stories made made

347
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 1: a lot of people realize, that's right, it is not

348
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 1: okay for me to be treated this way. And it's

349
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 1: not a me problem. I don't need to calm down.

350
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm not being overly sensitive. You are wrong, you were

351
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: mistreating employees. Yeah, it's one of those things that's so infuriating.

352
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: So much of what you're talking about is just infuriating

353
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 1: because it feels like this culture of you know, isolating

354
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: people and making people think like you're so lucky to

355
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 1: have this job, like we're allowing you to play in here,

356
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: um and you should be grateful for that opportunity that

357
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: we are granting you um. Which is another way of

358
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: keeping people quiet about things that they're experiencing and then

359
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 1: having people talk, like speak up about it, which is great,

360
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: and you know, finding that out you're not alone is great,

361
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: but it's also frustrating too, because I feel like so

362
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 1: many of us women are like it's almost like yeah,

363
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 1: and guys are like, what, yeah, I can't just go

364
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: into a hotel room at a conference without cahol. I'm sorry,

365
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: I can't, right, which is ridiculous that they are all

366
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: these things people have to take into consideration, and that

367
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: it's keeping people either out of the business or pushing

368
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: them out once they finally get in. I know so

369
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: many incredibly talented, incredibly qualified women who have said, Okay,

370
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: you know what, you don't want me here, I won't

371
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: be here anymore. And you know, in all honesty, I've

372
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: in the past few months, I have definitely reached that

373
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: point myself a few times, to be like, Okay, if

374
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: it's if my presence is so bad for everyone, if

375
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: my speaking up makes it so uncomfortable for everyone else,

376
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: then maybe I'll just leave. And then it's like, no,

377
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: you leave, I'm right, you leave, or you do better, right, right, right,

378
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 1: Like I will remain here. You're the problem, not me, right,

379
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: You're not going to make the problem go away just

380
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: because I leave necessarily, Like this is a an internal

381
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: problem that needs to be addressed. And I feel like,

382
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 1: maybe because I have been in the industry a little

383
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: longer and well, once upon a time anyway, that there's

384
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: some some like a cyclical thing where an incident will happen,

385
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: will kind of listen and then move on, Like how

386
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 1: do we think? How do you think that perhaps, of

387
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: course this was a whole bigger thing, it actually got

388
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: national attention from so many but why do you think

389
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: we keep getting into these traps of like kind of

390
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 1: like as you were talking to me about the Black

391
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: Lives Matter, like this is so great and important, and

392
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: all these rulers like, yeah, we got the black Square,

393
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: we gotta bear for you. But it was literally just

394
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: talk like how do we keep getting into these messages?

395
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: Not we I kind of already know the answer, but

396
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, how do we get out of it? Yeah?

397
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: You know it's I don't know, I I don't have

398
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: assistant answer, And well again I say I don't know,

399
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 1: I do know. Um, we need to continue to hold

400
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: ourselves accountable, and we need to continue to commit to

401
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes being uncomfortable and sometimes messing up and

402
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: learning from that discomfort, learning from those mistakes and moving forward,

403
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: and that people don't want to do that. And you know,

404
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: as long as we're still at critical mass with a

405
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, the industry being dominated by primarily you know,

406
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: middle aged has had white men UM. It doesn't affect them.

407
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: You know, the is the is the default, and I

408
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: should I shouldn't put an entire blanket over saying like

409
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect them, because I'm sure it does on

410
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: some level, but not to the degree that it affects

411
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: other people. And that you know, it can't continue to

412
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: fall on the shoulders of the people who are historically

413
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: excluded to continue to push and to continue to say,

414
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: please just treat me equally. I'm not even asking to

415
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: be treated better. I'm just asking asking, you know, not

416
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: to be groped or not to be paid less, or

417
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: not to have to deal with, you know, microaggressions all

418
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: of the time, and that that shouldn't always fall on

419
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: the people who are affected to be educating those who

420
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: aren't UM. And that's really where we've found ourselves within

421
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: this movement now, is you know, I can't be your

422
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: search engine, and you also can't task the all of

423
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: the women who work for your brewery to start a

424
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: committee to educate you on how they could be treated better.

425
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: Um that there is some value in doing things like that,

426
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: of course, and asking your employees for feedback, receiving it,

427
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: and then acting on it. There can be a ton

428
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: of value in that, but it's also just as valuable

429
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: for leadership to be able to point to these are

430
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: the steps we have taken. And those steps aren't commanding

431
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: other employees to do additional work, probably for not additional pay,

432
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: and probably outside of the scope of what they were

433
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: hired to do. But you know, this is the training

434
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: that I took. These are the articles that I've read

435
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: that these are the resources that I've sought out on

436
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: my own to make myself a better leader, to make

437
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: sure that I understand as well as I can what's

438
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: going on and how to make it better for you.

439
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: And that's what you know. Again, I get asked a

440
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: lot of really elementary questions by people that I'm like,

441
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm not your search engine. If you know you can yeah, yeah, exactly.

442
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: You You can look up somebody's like some random nine

443
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: the actors height on Google. You can google like anti

444
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: racist resources, and it's much more meaningful to me if

445
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: somebody comes to me and says I have found like

446
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: these five things, um, you know, and here the my

447
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: opinions I formed on whether these are good resources. What

448
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: what do you think? Is there something else that I'm

449
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: missing because we don't know what we don't know? But

450
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: yes Google exists. Um so yeah, so you know, you know,

451
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: moving forward, it is if we really are the industry

452
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: we say we are, then it shouldn't be a problem

453
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: to sometimes be uncomfortable if that means that from that

454
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: discomfort comes growth and you know, more accessibility and a

455
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: better understanding of how we can serve everyone who wants

456
00:25:48,440 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: to be in the beer industry. I I feel like

457
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: so many things you're talking about can be like we

458
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: see it in all kinds of like it's not just

459
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: this one right, and it's just like making me angry

460
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: and angrier. Like you said, Samantha, we have this history

461
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: of kind of kicking women out of beer, of like

462
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: making it and then even drinking it. I remember for

463
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: a while, and this was me very much internalizing stuff.

464
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: But I've heard it from other friends. Like I thought,

465
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, if I ordered a beer, it had to

466
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: be a light beer or else people would think who

467
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: knows what they would think. But like she's a lady

468
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: down to get frisky or something, which is ridiculous that

469
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: we have these stereotypes about drinks, but we do. UM.

470
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: So it's just like so much too untangled, And then

471
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,959
Speaker 1: it's I don't keep using the word frustrating, but it does.

472
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: It frustrates me that you could. You've got so much

473
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: talent and you've done so much stuff, and you've reached

474
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: this point where you're getting You're like, I'm almost done

475
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: with this and it shouldn't be on you to take

476
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: on that emotional baggage, but unfortunately that's where we are.

477
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: So I kind of want to ask you, um, when

478
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: you made that list of like this is what I

479
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: want to do, what's your thing about brewing? That was

480
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: like that you loved and that you really really excited you.

481
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: You know. For me, I'm very much a lifelong learner,

482
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: Like I always joke if I could stay in school forever,

483
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: I would, and beer really hits that for me. So

484
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: in addition to having come from the legal world, my

485
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: my undergraduate degree was in economics, and it's amazing how

486
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: much beer has shaped history, its shaped economics, it's it's

487
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: funded wars, it has you know, been influenced by and

488
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 1: has influenced tax codes. It reaches every facet and for me,

489
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: I'm at the spot now where I am very much

490
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: a non a scientific person. So a lot of the

491
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: like the biochemistry and microbiology part of beer is I

492
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: can say the words, but I just don't really like

493
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: I I sort of understand it, but I'm like, I

494
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: need somebody to teach me chemistry, like I am a

495
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: middle schooler because that's the last time I was in

496
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: a chemistry class um. And so that's you know, that's

497
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: a new challenge for me now is getting better at

498
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: understanding really the science behind it and that you know,

499
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: the science part specifically is where it is super old

500
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: dudes who have been doing it for fifty years, and

501
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: that's fabulous. They have a wealth of information and they've

502
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: done some really cool things, but it's hard to find

503
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: you know that that technical information that's presented in a

504
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: way that's designed to make it accessible to somebody from

505
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: a non technical background. Um. So you know that for me,

506
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: just always being able to learn something really does it

507
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: for me. And then I'm also huge into beer sensory

508
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: and talking to people about beer flavor, and that is

509
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: again another area that you know, the last year or

510
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: so that I've been asking who gets to decide, who

511
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: gets to decide what beer style guidelines look like, who

512
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: gets to decide the terminology or who has historically decided

513
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: the terminology we use to describe beer. Um, it's a

514
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: very small pool of people, and there's a very large

515
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: pool of people out there who could contribute to making

516
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: that sensory language more meaningful to more people. And that's

517
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, that's another area of with the public again,

518
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: empowering people. This is accessible to you. You are qualified

519
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: to talk about what you're tasting. You're the most qualified

520
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: person to talk about what you're tasting when you taste beer.

521
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: And then also personally, I'm I'm always developing my palate

522
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: and I'm always learning how to detect to detect something new.

523
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: And you know, again Google exists, so like if I

524
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: smell something and I think this smells like permasely susan,

525
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: then I can go on Google and like look up

526
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: what are what are compounds and perm solution and like

527
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: work backwards from that. Um. So yeah, I mean with beer,

528
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: it's I don't think it's possible to ever know everything

529
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: there is to know about beer. Yeah, I love that

530
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't remind me of all the times that I

531
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: would go in and we would do our tasting, so

532
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: we get the tasting this when we're describing beer to customers,

533
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: my favorite thing was to be like, what do you

534
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: typically drink? What do you typically like? And let me

535
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: give you this, and that satisfying moment of it being like,

536
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's like it's was one of my

537
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: favorite was satisfying moments. I'm like, that's right, I know,

538
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: and being able to turn people onto beers that they

539
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: never had, didn't think they liked and and I love

540
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: that and and like any was saying it's such a

541
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: gender to drink, which irritates me to no end. But

542
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: the assumption that I didn't know what I was talking

543
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: about or people didn't want to talk to me because

544
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: I was a girl. Uh, and trying to be like, no,

545
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: this is the beer that you're talking this is even

546
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: though they're fighting with me, they're like, no, no no, no,

547
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm talking about. My dude, I work here,

548
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: I know are here. I had those moments and yeah,

549
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: it was typically most times, dudeum, but within those times,

550
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: like you talk about your love the experience and almost

551
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: and then also talking about the fact that, yeah, you

552
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: have had many times being like I'm done, I'm frustrated

553
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: that it's not welcoming, but you continue to fight, which

554
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: is what we love to see. And then again you

555
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: talked about the incident with Brian Allen, which we were like,

556
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is I was reading through NonStop,

557
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: like trying to catch up, and of course like saying

558
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: this is familiar, this is not familiar. This brewery is

559
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm not drinking from there again, I'm not drinking from

560
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: here again. Who's actually making a stand, who's actually making

561
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: a difference, and who's actually not. But there were so many,

562
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: like international level of stories that happened, and yeah, I

563
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: did ended up reading your experience, but um, can you

564
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: kind of go into your own experiences with movements like

565
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: this and how it affects you and how you've been

566
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: able to continue on? Yeah, you know, I have a

567
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: lot of times with with this specifically, and I guess

568
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: again feeding into that lifelong learner. I don't really want

569
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: to learn about all the ways that I've been harassed

570
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: or discriminated against, but you know, there there are things

571
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: that I learn every day that helped me say Okay,

572
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: this is what happened to me. Now I have words

573
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: to describe it, and this is like, this is also

574
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: how I can talk to someone else about it, because

575
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: for me that is hugely important that there is a

576
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: lot of you know, people who don't truly understand power dynamics. Yeah,

577
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: you might be the nicest guy. You might go out

578
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: and drink with all of your employees and have a

579
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: good time, you are still the CEO. There is still

580
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: a line that is going to be difficult for people

581
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: to cross, and is still going to be difficult for

582
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: someone to come to talk to you about something that's

583
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: happened to them. And you know, that's where I've done

584
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: a ton of learning and just having people reach out

585
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: over social media saying this is happening, or I can't

586
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: afford to leave, I don't have time to look for

587
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: another job, and even if I do find another job,

588
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: how do I know that it's going to be any better?

589
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: It could very possibly be worse. And figuring out, Okay,

590
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: what kinds of resources do you need right now? What

591
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: is the most helpful, And that's you know, that's really

592
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: um My experience within this this movement has been kind

593
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: of staying one lesson ahead of the students, um, but

594
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: also being willing to say, I don't know, let's let's

595
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: figure it out together. UM, let's talk about, you know, what,

596
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: what is it? What really is just the crux of

597
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: what's going on here to help everyone verbalize what's happening

598
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: and then also make a plan for moving forward from it. Um.

599
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I've I've been, you know, was

600
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: spoken feminist my entire life. So you know, one of

601
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: the areas with this movement that I think has been

602
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: the most the most difficult conversations, the most difficult to

603
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: really enunciate what is happening is I mean, just white

604
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: feminism has been a huge issue with this, and you know,

605
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: as as women were not afforded the ability to disagree

606
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: with each other right and with historically excluded people like

607
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: everybody has the same homogeneous experience, and you can't say

608
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: I don't like the way you're feminine is in you know,

609
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: and because then it's like, oh, well you we we

610
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: don't even need to listen to you because you're you're

611
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: not representing an entire gender with what it is that

612
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: you're saying. And I've seen such a lack of intersectionality

613
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: with a lot of what's going on in the brewing industry,

614
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: and particularly with you know, people who have been in

615
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: the industry a while who you know will say, uh, well,

616
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: I won't go into like a ton of specifics about

617
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: particular people, but that's happened a lot where I've had

618
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know this isn't we can't speak

619
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: and we um specifically you know me sis had white

620
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: woman can't speak for all of the experiences that are

621
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: happening in the beer industry. There is in our sectionality

622
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: here and we need to be learning how to make

623
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: sure that we are doing our best to either make

624
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: sure those resources are available, we're getting out of the

625
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: way and you know, insane, I'm not the most qualified

626
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: person to talk to you about this, this woman is

627
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: because of these intersectional issues that are happening with what's

628
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: going on. UM. So that's been one of the areas

629
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: that I've I've personally been trying to learn more about

630
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: is to help enunciate that better and to help myself,

631
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, understand my role in what's going on and

632
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: then also understand how those dynamics work and when is

633
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: it time for me to step aside, and what is

634
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: it time for me to reach out to other women

635
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: and share what I'm learning so we can make sure

636
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: that this movement is truly for all women affected by it.

637
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: Out of curiosity, because you've been doing this for a while,

638
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: have you seen changes for better or worse during your

639
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: time in this industry? Um? Yes, and yes, uh so.

640
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: I I have seen people, you know, making incremental changes

641
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: and people willing to do that that hard work, willing

642
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable, willing to get the training, willing to

643
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: have those hard conversations with all of their employees, and

644
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: also willing to you know, have somebody approached them. That

645
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: was a resource that I had shared with people of Hey,

646
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: somebody has called you out. What do you do? You know,

647
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: how do you react and somebody has come to you

648
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: with a problem. What is the proper way to listen

649
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: to them and to empathize with them and not say

650
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: something like that doesn't sound like them. You know where

651
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: you're You think you're trying to be helpful, but somebody's

652
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: like re traumatizing themselves to tell you what happened, and

653
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: you just minimize it. And so they've learned a very

654
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: important lesson, right that they can't speak up or they

655
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: can't speak to you about it. And I've seen a

656
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: lot of people being willing to have those conversations. I've

657
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: seen a lot of breweries, um, you know, willing to

658
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: be more transparent about things like here's our code of conduct.

659
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: You can you know you can. We have it posted

660
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: on our website. You can read what we're doing to

661
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: keep you safe, to keep our employees safe, you know,

662
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: to keep everyone safe, the and the this is also

663
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: the resources that are available to you when you're in

664
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: our tap room. I've seen not great things, you know,

665
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: I've I've heard people say like, oh, this blew over already,

666
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: you know, week after I left my former company, they

667
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,479
Speaker 1: that that was something that was being said, like, oh, yeah,

668
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: that blew over. We don't have to worry about that anymore.

669
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: Um So, I've seen a lot of that, and I've

670
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: seen a lot of people who and I'll try to

671
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: be as fair as I can, but a lot of

672
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: breweries who seemingly have decided that they don't need to

673
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: care about it anymore, or you know, there's some sort

674
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: of cognitive dissonance. Say there's a festival that they want

675
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: to attend with a very problematic brewerer person who's involved

676
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: with it and they really want to go, but you know,

677
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: they also then have to answer questions from customers and

678
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 1: from the industry on. I thought that this is where

679
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: you stood, but now you're doing this, so we need

680
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: you to reconcile that. And and I say, you know,

681
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: trying to be fair, because again, social media doesn't tell

682
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: the entire story, right, So I it means more to

683
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: me for a brewery when I ask as a customer

684
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: what are you doing for them to say we did

685
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: these five things? Or you know, you can go to

686
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: our website and you can see this. These are our

687
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: policies for our employees. That that transparency is so much

688
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: more meaningful than you know, posting on on social media

689
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: saying that you're not going to the festival or saying

690
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: that you're not going to do this. Okay, great, that's

691
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: that's something, but that's that doesn't tell me if you've

692
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: learned anything from that experience or how you're going to

693
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: move forward from the experience. That's a lot. You know,

694
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: you are talking a lot about how we can support

695
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: you know, individually, but because you're involved in a lot

696
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: of different things, you've got your hands and so many things.

697
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: What are some organizations that we should know about that

698
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: could support and bring about change and or at least

699
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: bring awareness for us to know what's going on in

700
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: the industry. One of the causes that I'm involved in,

701
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: and this is actually how Sam and I met, was

702
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: with Brave Noise. And this is a collaboration within the

703
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: beer industry for breweries to show their support for historically

704
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: excluded people. And the way the Brave Noise works is

705
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: when you sign up, you actually submit a copy of

706
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: your code of conduct, and you receive the beer recipe,

707
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: brew it. When the beer is ready to go, you

708
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: donate the proceeds to a nonprofit that helps support historically

709
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: excluded people in the brewing industry somehow that can look

710
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: like whatever you would like it to look like. And

711
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: then also on your beer, can you print the QR

712
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: code that will people can scan and it will take

713
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: them to your code of conduct. That is a great

714
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: way for consumers, specifically, ask your favorite brewery if they're

715
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: planning to brew Brave Noise, and if they're not, ask

716
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: them why not. And I definitely don't mean that in

717
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: a bullying way, because you know, I've talked to some

718
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: breweries who are like, we schedule our beers out, you know,

719
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: like six months in advance or something. So there there

720
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: are reasons why people might not be able to prioritize that,

721
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: but it's still worth asking. Um. I have a friend

722
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: of mine who was doing that, you know, on her own,

723
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 1: just started emailing breweries to say, and you know, emailing

724
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: as a consumer to say, hey, you know, these two

725
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: breweries in town brew Brave Noise and I really like

726
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: your brewery, I really like your beer. Are you planning

727
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: to brew it? And I think at least two of

728
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: the breweries that she had emailed ended up saying, you know,

729
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: we had talked about it, and yes, now now we will.

730
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: So for consumers, you know, ask them if they're if

731
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: they're planning to brew Brave Noise. If you're in a brewery,

732
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 1: ask about their code of conduct. Ask, you know, what

733
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: what do they have in place to help keep customers safe.

734
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: Do they have training? You know, there's things like safe

735
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: Bars training where where breweries will get trained on how

736
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: to do a good by standard intervention, what to look for,

737
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: how to keep people safe, what to do with the

738
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: situation escalates, how to deescalate all sorts of things, and

739
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: there are a ton of breweries were doing stuff like that.

740
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: So ask because you know a lot of times if

741
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: the if the consumers the one asking. Breweries want to

742
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: give consumers what they want. That's why we have so

743
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: many like fruited sours and you know, like stouts with

744
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: like twinkies and like chewed up bubblegum in it and stuff.

745
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: So breweries want to make their customers happy, right, make

746
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: sure that you're letting them know that this would make

747
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: me very happy as a consumer. Other things to be

748
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: aware of. We also have the Brave Voices Fund, which

749
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: is a fund that we created to be able to

750
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: help provide financial assistance for people who need to leave

751
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: that job. You know, again, it was it was a

752
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: huge privilege and continues to be a huge privilege for

753
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: me that I'm part of a dual income household. So

754
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: it was not easy for me to leave my job.

755
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: But we were going to be fine in the interim

756
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm part of a dual income household.

757
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: We can make it work and a lot of people

758
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: don't have that privilege, and so that's just a reality. Um.

759
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: The Brave Voice is fund is it accepts donations. You

760
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: can also go to the Brave Noise dot com website

761
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: and there's a ton of different charities and nonprofits on

762
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: there where you can donate your money directly that are

763
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: doing different things like promoting mental health, you know, providing training,

764
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: providing job training, all sorts of things. There are a

765
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: lot of really great organizations doing really good work right

766
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: now that would be happy to receive your money, receive

767
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: your time, receive your donation, um receive your voice. You know,

768
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: amplifying these things as consumers is huge. I mean, that's

769
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: that's really everything, and that's that's one of the things

770
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: that's been frustrating at times throughout this movement is the

771
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: general public isn't aware of what's of everything that's been

772
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: going on, right, So making more people aware that none

773
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: of us can humanly care about every single thing in

774
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: the world. Right, but you know, there are causes we

775
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: can be deliberate when we're making some of our purchasing decisions.

776
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: Someplace like craft beer is a great place to be

777
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: able to do that. You know, your your money has power,

778
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: and if somebody you know isn't isn't able to show

779
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: you what they're doing again, if it's something that's important

780
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: to you. If you're listening to this, I'm guessing it

781
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: probably is important to you. You know, you can ask

782
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: those questions and make your purchasing decisions accordingly. That's that's

783
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: all amazing. So is there looking back now? Is there

784
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: something you would tell your younger self as you're getting

785
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 1: into this industry, any advice you would give? Oh man, Yeah,

786
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think it would be too gosh. I

787
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: think it would be too you know, speak up more.

788
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to condition myself out of politely laughing

789
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: when a man says something to me that, I'm like,

790
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: my first reaction is ha and then like it'll soak

791
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: in what was just said to me. Um. So I'm

792
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: still trying to like unlearn doing that and unlearn. Um.

793
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah that that polite laugh gets me so much and

794
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: I get so frustrated by it. So I think I

795
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: would tell myself my younger self, you don't have to

796
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: do that, right you. You don't have to make the

797
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: people around you comfortable when it means that you are

798
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: feeling uncomfortable or unsafe. That's really good. Um. And because

799
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: you know we are talking about beer and you're an expert,

800
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: what is your top three beers that we should know about.

801
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: I'm giving you three because if you're more more like

802
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: any and now we have too many, especially in the

803
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: field that we love. Um except an he likes to

804
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: take bonuses. I'm not giving you bonuses. Just okay. I

805
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 1: will give you three beer styles. This is a little

806
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: bit of a cheap because I'm not going to help

807
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: three specific beers. It will give you three beer styles.

808
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: Number one smoked beer. It's my absolute favorite. The reason

809
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: why I'm telling you I'm not giving you a specific

810
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 1: beer for this is because smoked beer is such a

811
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: wide range of flavors and levels of smoke that I

812
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: am an evangelist for smoked beer. So there is a

813
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,959
Speaker 1: smoked beer out there for everyone, the same way there's

814
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: a beer out there for everyone. There's a smoked beer

815
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: out there that you will like. Uh So, smoked beer

816
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: number one like by by a long shot. Yes, everyone, Everyone,

817
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: go find a smoked beer. And if you don't like

818
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: the first one, keep trying, because I guarantee you will

819
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: find a good one. Number two. I would have to say, really, oh,

820
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: this is tough because it's kind of like when you

821
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: ask like a film person what their favorite movie is.

822
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: It's like, well, it depends you found one way to

823
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: cheat those, Yes, you know. My other one, I would

824
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: say to seek out a really well made mixed fermentation beer.

825
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: So that's going to be something that's going to have

826
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: some sour characteristics, some funky Britaina mice's characteristics. And I

827
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: say well made because there's a lot of like not

828
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: super great ones out there, but there are a few

829
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: places who do them really well. Um, So I would

830
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: search out one of those, and that that style, that

831
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: mixed fermentation is going to be one that is really great.

832
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: If you are a wine drinker, particularly if you like

833
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: natural wines, you're going to love a mixed fermentation beer.

834
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: And then my last recommendation, This one is tough because

835
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: in my mind I'm thinking about all these different ones

836
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, which one would be a good

837
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: third place? Um, But I will go with one of

838
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: my favorites, which is a barley wine. If you can

839
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: find a really nice barley wine, I'm partial to American

840
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: barley wines. There's American and English barley wines there. They're

841
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: all amazing. Um, they're all very you know, both styles

842
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: have their pluses and minuses. My preference is for American

843
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: barley wine. One of my very favorite, like top five

844
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: years of all time is here Nevada Bigfoot, and that's

845
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 1: a great one that is really easy to find. UM,

846
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: so I would recommend that one as well. I love it.

847
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: I We're gonna have some English barley but I know,

848
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, that one's email. Okay, do you have

849
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: any breweries that you would like to shout out or

850
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: any of that group? I don't know why I like that. Yeah,

851
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: you know, I think I would shout out again. You

852
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: can go to the Brave Noise website, UM, and all

853
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 1: of the brewers who are participating are listed on there.

854
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: You can search by state, you can search by country.

855
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: I would shout out every single brewery who has signed

856
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: up to brew Brave Noise. Yes, Yes, and and shout

857
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: out to you for all of the work you are

858
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: doing this, all of it. That's so amazing, UM, and

859
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: thank you for being here for this fantastic conversation. Good

860
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: luck on all of your area you're coming up. UM,

861
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: where can the good listeners find you? You can find

862
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: me on on social media. I'm under the influence. You

863
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: can also visit my website under the influence dot Beer.

864
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: I do have some online beer training courses that I

865
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: will be really not very shortly. Um So if you're

866
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: interested in learning more about becoming a beer judge or

867
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: doing something like this is around certification program, I will

868
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: have something for you very soon. But I love hearing

869
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: from people. I love getting questions, Um, you know, beer recipes,

870
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: which beer should I drink? Which beer should I brew next?

871
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: Where do I even get started? Reach out to me.

872
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: I also co host a podcast called Fosse Bottom Girls

873
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: and that is you can find us on False Bottom Girls,

874
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook's cool. Yes, and yes, we definitely want

875
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: to hear more about all of your recommendations. And yeah,

876
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: we need your help in learning about beer. I was

877
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: just thinking about Annie talking about how she can't describe things.

878
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, we wouldn't have to do a personal session.

879
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: I think, Yes, I love that idea. I've into it.

880
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: I have a lot to learn, and I'm I'm excited

881
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: to learn it. So I've been proved well. Thank you

882
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: so much again, Jen for being here such a delight,

883
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: and thanks to you listeners for listening. If you'd like

884
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: to email us, you can or email Stuff Idia mom

885
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. You can find

886
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You, or

887
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always,

888
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: you're a super producer. Christina, Thank you and thanks to

889
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: you for listening. Told instruction of Heart Radio for more

890
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: podcast on my Heart Radio video, Heartradio App. Have a

891
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H