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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. Hi,

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Speaker 1: this is Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Masters in Business podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is somebody that is a little bit

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Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone. It's chef Bobby Flay. You

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Speaker 1: probably know him from any of the sixteen cookbooks or

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Speaker 1: thirteen shows he's hosted on the Food Channel or the

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Speaker 1: the Cooking Channel. Um, I gotta tell you a quick,

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Speaker 1: funny story. So the whole concept of this show is

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Speaker 1: find somebody who's a master in their area, whether it's

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Speaker 1: investing in finance or or business people like um, Jim

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Speaker 1: McCann at Flowers or Mark Cuban who owns the Dallas Mavericks,

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Speaker 1: and and find out what makes made them the terrific

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Speaker 1: business person they were. And I've been trying to do

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Speaker 1: more and more non finance people, and I thought of

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Speaker 1: Bobby Flay. I don't know what made me. It pop

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Speaker 1: into my head. Maybe it was something I saw on television.

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Speaker 1: And so I had reached out to his people and

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, sure, he's got a new show and

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Speaker 1: he's got a new cookbook. He's happy too, And so

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Speaker 1: we had this really fascinating conversation. Of course, on the

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Speaker 1: way home, I think of a thousand questions I should

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Speaker 1: have asked him as a restaurateur instead. Instead, I have

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Speaker 1: two cookbooks of his about his famous restaurant, Mesa and

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Speaker 1: this wonderful dish that my wife. I took my wife

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Speaker 1: there for a birthday years ago and she has not

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Speaker 1: stopped talking about this dish. And he actually walked me

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Speaker 1: through the through the recipe for that dish. But here's

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Speaker 1: the most fascinating part. The guy is just such a real,

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Speaker 1: genuine person and such a true New Yorker. After the show,

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Speaker 1: we walk him down to the um out of the building.

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Speaker 1: Where you going, Bobby, I'm taking the subway down to

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Speaker 1: my office. Bobby Flight takes the subway. Yeah, it's the

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Speaker 1: most efficient way to get around the city. So we

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Speaker 1: walk across Lexington Avenue. People come, Hey, it's Bobby Flay,

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Speaker 1: like the crowd season. He says, Hi, shakes the hand.

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Speaker 1: The three of us head down into the subway. He

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Speaker 1: gets on a train and goes off to his destination.

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Speaker 1: It was really quite fascinating that as as real a

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Speaker 1: person and as true and New Yorker as ever you

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Speaker 1: want to meet without further ado, Here is our conversation

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Speaker 1: with chef and respirator Bobby Flay. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest

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Speaker 1: today is a well known chef, author of a cookbook,

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Speaker 1: restaurateur and star on the Food Network. Bobby Flay, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Masters, and I'm so glad to be here. Your

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Speaker 1: introduction is going to take a while. Let me give

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Speaker 1: you the give people the quick version of it. Um,

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Speaker 1: you became head chef. First of all, you drop out

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Speaker 1: of high school to start working in restaurants. You're seventeen.

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Speaker 1: You be come head chef at Miracle Grill, which was

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Speaker 1: a lovely little place in the village. Then you open

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Speaker 1: your first restaurant, Masa Grill. It gets named Restaurant of

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Speaker 1: the Year by Gayle Green, you win the James Beard

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Speaker 1: Foundation Rising Star Chef of the Year, and ninety three

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Speaker 1: you now host or have hosted or specials on the

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Speaker 1: Food Network and Cooking Channel over thirteen shows. How many

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Speaker 1: cookbooks is this right? Over twelve cookbooks? Yeah? I think

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Speaker 1: it's thirteen four. And you've, of course you've won three

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Speaker 1: Emmy's and you're the first chef we've had on on

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Speaker 1: Masters and business. You know, I followed your career accidentally.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know I was following your career. When

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Speaker 1: I was in grad school. The only nice restaurant I

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Speaker 1: could afford to take my then where grad school was

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Speaker 1: here in the city was that a university. The only

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Speaker 1: restaurant I could afford that was nice was Miracle Grill,

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Speaker 1: and that was late eighties, early nineties. It had this

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Speaker 1: delightful outdoor garden you'd of a garden and a fantastic

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Speaker 1: brunch and one day we just asked somebody, who's the

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Speaker 1: chef here? Oh, some guy named Bobby Flay. Okay, that's nice.

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Speaker 1: So when Mesa opens, we're one of the first people there.

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Speaker 1: I remember taking my wife. I think it was hurt

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Speaker 1: I won't say what number, but it was a round

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Speaker 1: number birthday, and there was a dish that I have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of your cookbooks and we still can't find

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Speaker 1: this dish, which was clams in a curry thaie coconut

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Speaker 1: sauce not but it's not in the Mesa cookbook and

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Speaker 1: it's not in the I don't know if it's in

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Speaker 1: any of your cookbooks. That's a long time ago. That

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Speaker 1: dish has haunted me for years. Is it didn't have

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Speaker 1: like a wild rice waffle with it. No, it definitely didn't.

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Speaker 1: It was almost like, you know, you go get molt

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Speaker 1: a Belgian place and they pretend to have a tie sauce.

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Speaker 1: It was like that, only delicious. So you you, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that specifically. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the development of food. So so I mentioned earlier, dropped

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Speaker 1: out of high school at seventeen, found your way to restaurants.

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Speaker 1: When did you first fall in love with cooking? It's

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Speaker 1: hard to say, really, I think, you know, I remember

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Speaker 1: cooking with my mother when I was a kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: at home. Um, the very first thing I remember cooking

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Speaker 1: was um mighty fine chocolate pudding, okay, right from the package,

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Speaker 1: from the package, and you all you would do is

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Speaker 1: you get a sauce pan and put some milk in there,

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Speaker 1: you know, you measure out the milk and you would

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Speaker 1: bring it to a skald and then you would add

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Speaker 1: the sort of package of chocolate powder or whatever was

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Speaker 1: in there. And then I remember just uh stirring it

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Speaker 1: with a wooden spoon and watching me get thick and chocolate.

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Speaker 1: And I thought Wow, that's this is what cooking is.

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Speaker 1: It actually changes the texture and the look in the

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Speaker 1: flavor of things. And that's what led you to molecular astronomy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't do astronomy, but but um, you know it's

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Speaker 1: it's my very first cooking memory. But like I used

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Speaker 1: to like make a lot of deviled eggs at home,

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Speaker 1: and you know, things like that, I mean, really simple things.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that I was really interested in cooking

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Speaker 1: as a profession because, frankly did no precedent for that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, cooking was only thought of as a blue

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Speaker 1: collar profession. Even when I started cooking professionally, more like

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Speaker 1: a short order chef than a real we just you know,

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Speaker 1: there was no such thing as as a celebrity chef,

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Speaker 1: for a chef that had any sort of name or knowledge.

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Speaker 1: I mean, besides, I'm sure you know some some French

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Speaker 1: chefs who own the top restaurants of the day. But um,

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Speaker 1: in terms of like a network dedicated to food and

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Speaker 1: things like that, that that was way far in the future.

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Speaker 1: And as this an urban legend, you're eight years old

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Speaker 1: and you're folks, as you only want for Christmas, and

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Speaker 1: you said an easy bake oven. Now that's a real story.

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Speaker 1: The urban legend is how good I am in the

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Speaker 1: basketball court. Not true. Now, I used to actually I was.

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Speaker 1: I was a good ball player. I mean, I'm a

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Speaker 1: I'm a city kid, so I grew up playing a

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Speaker 1: lot of sports outside in the streets and UMT just yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love I played ball all the time.

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Speaker 1: We were talking before the show about what happens, and

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Speaker 1: you hit a certain age. Right before I got married,

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Speaker 1: I was playing on the courts over a thirty third

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Speaker 1: and second by the turns to the tunnel and I

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Speaker 1: twist my ankle and I walk home and I'm living

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Speaker 1: and my wife said, that's what you've done with ball.

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Speaker 1: I I quit. I quit it forty two. Um, And honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think about it every day because I love playing basketball.

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Speaker 1: Used to we used to play in a restaurant league,

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Speaker 1: um at Basketball City on the West Side, you know,

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Speaker 1: at Chelsea Piers. And it was it was, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was great competition. And I mean I I I

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Speaker 1: grew up playing basketball in my whole life, so it

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Speaker 1: was it was almost like my my my renaisce my

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Speaker 1: basketball renaissance. And then um, like you, um, I went

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Speaker 1: up for a rebound and I came down wrong on

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Speaker 1: my ankle and I I didn't really hurt myself. I

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Speaker 1: just sprained my ankle and I was like, the next time,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be in a cast and I can't

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Speaker 1: do this. And that was you know, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: friend of a friend. I want to get the name right.

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Speaker 1: David Chang just to open a new restaurant, and we

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Speaker 1: had said to friends, let's go this weekend. It's in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: will go on Sunday. Oh no, it's closed. He's in

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Speaker 1: the restaurant ball league he plays, so the restaurants closed

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. Right, So some of these guys who are

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Speaker 1: serious cooks also serious ball. Absolutely, So let's keep working

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Speaker 1: our way through our list. Um. So you studied with

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Speaker 1: some of the great chefs at the French Junary Institute,

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Speaker 1: and you said, when you grew up, there really wasn't

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Speaker 1: a frame of reference for chefs. What is it that

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Speaker 1: makes a great chef? Um? And you can answer your

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Speaker 1: question the other way, what makes a chef great? If

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Speaker 1: that's a uh, well, I think I think the original

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Speaker 1: question is really the real question. I think you know,

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Speaker 1: what makes a great chef? I mean lots of things. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, the words chef really means chief. So basically,

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Speaker 1: besides you being well, first of all, you have to

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Speaker 1: be a good cook. Let's let's let's get the fundaments

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Speaker 1: out of the way. You need to be a good cook.

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Speaker 1: You need to understand the fundamentals. You need to be

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Speaker 1: a very good teacher because you need to be able

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Speaker 1: to teach your brigade, so to speak, to pull off

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Speaker 1: the things that you need pulled off in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: You can never do it by yourself as a chef.

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Speaker 1: You also need to be a good leader. You need

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Speaker 1: to be inspirational. Um. And you know, ultimately I think

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Speaker 1: that um, you need to be dedicated and passionate about food.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry rid Holts. You're listening to Masters in Business

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Bobby Flay,

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Speaker 1: best known for his work with Miracle Grill. Let's go

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Speaker 1: down the list, nayso all of the shows on the

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Speaker 1: Food Network. Let's talk a little bit about the business

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Speaker 1: of restaurants. Since you are essentially a restaurateur, everybody knows

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Speaker 1: it's a really challenging business. Most new restaurants don't survive

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Speaker 1: when they open up. What is it that makes it

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Speaker 1: such a challenging proposition for a restaurant to become successful

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Speaker 1: in New York anywhere, but New York City for sure

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Speaker 1: right now? Um, it's is a real squeeze on on

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Speaker 1: small businesses in New York City, especially the restaurant business.

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Speaker 1: As you know, the ransom New York are spectacularly insane,

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Speaker 1: just in the labor costs go go up and up.

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Speaker 1: Tip credit just got uh brush to the side. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as it is the restaurant business in general, Okay, across

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Speaker 1: the board, across the country, it's very difficult to make

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Speaker 1: a profit unless you're unless you're slammed every single night. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now bring it to New York with a rents are

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Speaker 1: you know quadruple any place else? The labor costs are

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Speaker 1: the same. Um, all the regulations, I mean, it just

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Speaker 1: makes everything really really difficult. I mean, frankly, I just

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Speaker 1: opened my new restaurant, Gotto a year ago, and I

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Speaker 1: looked at my business partner, who has been my We've

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Speaker 1: been business partners for twenty five years, and I said, Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted you to know I want to open

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Speaker 1: this restaurant really badly, but we're gonna probably lose money.

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Speaker 1: And what does he say to this? All right, let's

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Speaker 1: do it, because because it's important to us. We you know,

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Speaker 1: we really want we really wanted to open Goto. It

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Speaker 1: was a restaurant that I was pining a way to open.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, you do things not for the money,

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Speaker 1: and and this is a perfect case of that, you

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Speaker 1: do it for the love of So that's a question

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you later, but let's bring it forward.

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Speaker 1: What gets you excited about new restaurant? Um? Well, the energy? Uh,

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Speaker 1: of course, going through the food. I mean to me,

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Speaker 1: when I when I open a restaurant, it's food first.

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Speaker 1: So I come up with the menu and the concept

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Speaker 1: first in terms of what I want to cook and

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Speaker 1: what I want to serve, and then everything else sort

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Speaker 1: of gets built around it. Then the then the design

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Speaker 1: comes in. You know, I think about what the energy

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Speaker 1: of the room wants wants to be, um, and then

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Speaker 1: you know that those are the two most important things,

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Speaker 1: and then we just sort of fill everything in around it.

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Speaker 1: So it starts with the food. Then the energy is

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Speaker 1: that is that the decor, the staff, the flow, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean it's all of it. But like when

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Speaker 1: you walk into a restaurant as a customer, there's a

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Speaker 1: certain buzz. Sometimes it's quiet and people the restaurantur wants

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Speaker 1: it to be quiet. Sometimes it's really loud and maybe

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Speaker 1: the maybe the restaurantur wants to be really loud, but

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Speaker 1: the customers are sort of not sure if they want

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Speaker 1: it that way. I mean, you have to take um,

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Speaker 1: you have to take attack, and you have to stick

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Speaker 1: with it. So, for instance, that Gotto, I wanted high energy.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be bustling, but I wanted it to

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Speaker 1: be controlled chaos. I didn't want it to be just

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to feel like a nightclub. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to feel like a really good restaurant that's kind of

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Speaker 1: fun and has a little buzz going to it. And

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Speaker 1: then the lighting is incredibly important UM, and that is

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Speaker 1: not on my list. That's interesting. I have a list

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Speaker 1: of things to ask you about what's most important in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant, and I don't even think about. When it

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Speaker 1: comes to design, lighting is the number one thing, the

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Speaker 1: number one thing for design that lighting, and we spent

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Speaker 1: we spent a lot of money on lighting um lighting

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Speaker 1: design UM. And if you go to Bar American, which

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Speaker 1: is in midtown here, or if you go to Gatto,

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Speaker 1: they both have these sort of orange glows to the room.

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Speaker 1: It makes everybody look good, and when you look good,

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Speaker 1: you feel good. You know. I was at a restaurant

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Speaker 1: not too long ago, and I won't mention their name,

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Speaker 1: and it was very dim, and there's a fine line

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Speaker 1: between romantic and too dark. And the waiters literally had

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Speaker 1: these squeezy hand held flashlights. So when you couldn't read,

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Speaker 1: everybody's whipping out their phones to read the menu, and

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Speaker 1: the waiters come by with a flashlight, and I was

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Speaker 1: compelled to ask, Hey, if the waiters have to have flashlights,

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Speaker 1: maybe that means something's wrong with the lighting in the restaurant. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's just because you can't see the menus like me.

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Speaker 1: But it was everybody. It wasn't just old people who

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Speaker 1: were fifty, it was you walk in. I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: it's it looks like the section is closed. It could

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Speaker 1: be too people, could you know. I mean they're looking

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Speaker 1: for that sort of mood lighting. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that restaurants can certainly be too dark for sure.

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Speaker 1: And you're saying lighting is really very Lighting is important yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So on a on a related note, so when you're

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Speaker 1: looking to launch a new restaurant, and let's use Mesa

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Speaker 1: as an example. So there's the Mesa that just closed

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Speaker 1: in New York not too long ago. I think to

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Speaker 1: make way for a condo. Is that? No, that's that boo,

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Speaker 1: to make way for a condom? Mason closed because after

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Speaker 1: twenty three years is that my rent was quadrupled? That's

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Speaker 1: a lot. So you opened up a Mesa in Vegas

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Speaker 1: and the Bahamas. And so when you're opening out a place,

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Speaker 1: when you're scouting a place to open a new restaurant,

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Speaker 1: what is it that you're looking at? Is it just

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Speaker 1: traffic or is it uh something more complex than that. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: first of all, location is important. I don't care how

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Speaker 1: good you are, how popular you are, Um, you want location.

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Speaker 1: You know the you know the old sort of at

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Speaker 1: age location, location, location. When it's really true, when I

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Speaker 1: open a restaurant and we're gonna spend a bunch of

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Speaker 1: money to open a restaurant, I want every chance I can,

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Speaker 1: So I start with location. Location is very important then

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Speaker 1: to how the space feels. Um is it? Is it

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Speaker 1: a space that we can actually design a restaurant that's

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Speaker 1: gonna actually feel good when you walk into it. I

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Speaker 1: don't like restaurants that where the ceilings are too low.

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Speaker 1: For instance, Um, I don't like restaurants that that where

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Speaker 1: the rooms are broken up like one big room. When

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Speaker 1: you can and when you walk in, the bar and

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Speaker 1: the and the dining room have a have an affinity

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Speaker 1: for each other. I think that it's really important, and

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Speaker 1: their energy sort of bounces off each other. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about restaurants that aren't yours. What sort of rooms

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Speaker 1: do you walk in and say, Wow, there's a really

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Speaker 1: good energy in here. Keith McNally, do you know that

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Speaker 1: I know the name? Okay, so he owns like Baltas

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Speaker 1: are he had Pastis Marandi. I eat in Keith mcnalley's

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Speaker 1: restaurants more than I eat in any other restaurant besides

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Speaker 1: my own. Actually, I don't really eat my own, but

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Speaker 1: when I when I go out, I mean I'm in

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Speaker 1: Keith mcdalley's restaurants. Because this guy, to me, he is

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Speaker 1: a fan. He is he is one of the best

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Speaker 1: restaurateurs in New York, and he creates an amazing energy

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Speaker 1: and great um surroundings and it makes you want to

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Speaker 1: be there. And the food is really simple. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's not reinventing the wheel by any stretch of the imagination.

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Speaker 1: But but he but the food is always solid and

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Speaker 1: good and you know what to expect, and they deliver

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Speaker 1: on their promise. And I always feel good in his

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Speaker 1: in his restaurants. So in the last minute we have

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Speaker 1: left in this segment, what are the things? What is

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Speaker 1: the most important thing that most restaurateurs get wrong? They undercapitalize.

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Speaker 1: It takes that a lot of money to open up

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Speaker 1: a a restaurant. Well, if let's say you think it's

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Speaker 1: gonna cost two million dollars, it's really four double whatever.

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Speaker 1: You're double the time to build it and double the

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Speaker 1: money to finance it. I'm Barry Rihult. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: Bobby Flay, restaurateur, host on the Food Network, Cooking Channel, uh,

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Speaker 1: cookbook author, and let's get into the specific details. You've

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Speaker 1: hosted more than a dozen cooking shows on the Food

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Speaker 1: Network and Cooking Channel. You have thirteen cookbooks published currently.

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Speaker 1: Your shows are Bobby Flay's Barbecue Addiction and the Worst

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Speaker 1: Cooks in America and you've won three Emmy's. And the

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Speaker 1: funny thing is you began your television career back in

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Speaker 1: How does a chef find his way into television? Well,

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Speaker 1: the Food network UM started in New York and as

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Speaker 1: a startup cable company, and Mason Grille was what was

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Speaker 1: one of the hot restaurants of that time, Restaurant of

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Speaker 1: the year, the James Beard Award that was that was

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Speaker 1: the pinnacle in New York back then. Yes, exactly, And

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Speaker 1: so they were looking for people to come on the network,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and frankly a lot of people were like,

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Speaker 1: what are they going to talk about? You know, for

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours in food you know, they'll run out

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Speaker 1: of things to talk about to anyway, Um, long story short,

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Speaker 1: I saw it as an opportunity to to showcase, you know,

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Speaker 1: who I was and what my restaurants were, because I

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Speaker 1: knew that people all over the country would start watching

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Speaker 1: this network. And so like when the family from Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: is coming to New York for three days, they'll maybe

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Speaker 1: they'll pick my restaurant as one of the restaurants that

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Speaker 1: they'll come to. It just puts you know, basically, um,

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Speaker 1: people in there in your seats, and so I looked

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Speaker 1: at it as a really good way to market my restaurants.

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Speaker 1: But this has evolved until a lot more than hey,

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Speaker 1: let me get some more butts in the seats. This

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Speaker 1: has really become a second career for you. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really has in some way. I never think of myself

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Speaker 1: on television because I'm because the restaurants are so important

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Speaker 1: to me that you know, and the Food Network knows this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've been on the Food Network for twenty years,

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Speaker 1: but they're they're they're in second place. My restaurants, my kitchens,

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Speaker 1: that's the place that I always want to be more

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Speaker 1: than any place else. But the network obviously has become

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Speaker 1: very much my family and has given me a fantastic

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Speaker 1: platform for what I want to do and what I

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Speaker 1: want to to try and experiment with. And the amazing

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Speaker 1: thing is really food on television. What was Julia Child

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Speaker 1: like nineteen sixty three? The Food Network has exploded in

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Speaker 1: popularity the past couple of years. It's it's really part

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Speaker 1: of pop culture now. I mean I think that Iron

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Speaker 1: Chef did that, you know, when I when I when

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Speaker 1: I when I competed against the Japanese um Iron Chef

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Speaker 1: in America. I think it's probably twelve years ago now.

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Speaker 1: I think that that really changed the way people looked

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Speaker 1: at food on television, and then that led to throw

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Speaker 1: down with Bobby Flag and that ultimately Now, originally there

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Speaker 1: was a little bad blood between you and um the Japanese. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: and now you guys are supposed to be but now

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Speaker 1: we're good friends. I mean, you know, it was just

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Speaker 1: it was sort of in the heat of the competition,

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Speaker 1: but you know how that goes, for sure, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you had you had famously leapt up on the table

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Speaker 1: and brandished your knives and they were offended by that.

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Speaker 1: They were offended by um, a little cultural difference. Now,

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Speaker 1: apparently the cutting board in Japan is sacred. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that, did you know know until I read it

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Speaker 1: and something you had written. Yeah, I said, no idea.

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Speaker 1: So I had no idea obviously, And my sush chefs

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Speaker 1: kind of lifted me up on the table. We we

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Speaker 1: sort of made it. We were having a hard time

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Speaker 1: for the hour, and we sort of came back at

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Speaker 1: the end, got all the food done, and we were

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Speaker 1: just happy. They lifted me up on the table and

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, I you know, obviously I insulted him,

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Speaker 1: so I apologized and now it's all it's all good,

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Speaker 1: so good too. So when you're um, how involved you

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Speaker 1: in the creation of some of these new shows, because

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Speaker 1: you've done a lot of these, it looks like you're

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Speaker 1: trying a lot of really interesting things. Well, right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing Beat Bobby Flay, which is my new show.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I created throw Down, I created Beat Bobby Flay,

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Speaker 1: I create I create most of the shows that I do,

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Speaker 1: barbecue addiction. So nobody's pitching you. You know, you're not like,

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Speaker 1: I gotta take a meeting with the Food Network now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do for chefs. No, they I'm sure you'll

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Speaker 1: see that soon. Um No, they pitched me all the time.

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Speaker 1: I have a really good relationship with them. And I

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Speaker 1: have a production company to ROCKSTRM Productions is my production company,

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Speaker 1: so we produce, you know, a lot of my shows,

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Speaker 1: and we produce other people's shows as well. So what

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Speaker 1: makes you decide to accept or or you know, give

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Speaker 1: green light or pass on a show? What elements are

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Speaker 1: you looking at? What factors? I'm looking for simplicity, And

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of times people missed that

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Speaker 1: miss that the concept of a show is simple, that

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Speaker 1: those are the successful ones. A lot of times they'll say,

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Speaker 1: just kind of what you did. We're gonna take Shark Tank,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take Iron Chef, We're gonna take this, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna roll it into this this one show.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna have all these different elements. But basically what

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Speaker 1: happens is it gets muddled and you can't follow it.

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Speaker 1: Beat Bobby Flay is really simple. Two of my friends

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Speaker 1: show up, they bring two chefs with them. Those two

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Speaker 1: chef go at it for twenty minutes. One of them wins.

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Speaker 1: Then that chef then tells me what their signature dishes,

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Speaker 1: and we cook it for forty five minutes and there's

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Speaker 1: a winner. That's it, and it's really simple. But what

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Speaker 1: we do is we surround it with a big audience,

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Speaker 1: um and it's got It's basically thirty minutes of pure energy.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a lot of fun. So now let's

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Speaker 1: shift to publishing and cookbooks. In the last minute we have,

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Speaker 1: you've got a dozen plus cookbooks out. What drives the

425
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: process of putting out a new cookbook and how do

426
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: you develop new recipes basically either a new show or

427
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: a new restaurant. Basically begets a new book, and there's

428
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: a whole theme of cooking, and you can basically work

429
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: your way through all of that in a single cook exactly.

430
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: I have a show about brunch called Bunch of Bobbies

431
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: on Food Network, and so in the fall, we have

432
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: a brunch book coming out. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening

433
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My guest today

434
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: is restaurateur and Food Network star Bobby Flay. Before we

435
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about investing in restaurants, let me

436
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: ask you this question. How does a kid from the

437
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 1: city find his way into thoroughbred horse race? Uh, well,

438
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: when you drop out of high school or you cut school,

439
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: um in the eighties, you go to the aqueduct in

440
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: Belmont with your friends. That's what we did. I mean,

441
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 1: we you know, we you know, we were New York

442
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: City kids and you know, we we didn't want to

443
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,239
Speaker 1: go to school, so we went to the track. I mean,

444
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: it's sort of like at that of the movie kind

445
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: of story. And so I was always fascinated by My

446
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: grandfather took me to Saratoga Springs, which is one of

447
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: the most beautiful places ever. And I still go every August.

448
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: And then when I started getting a little success in business,

449
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it would be really cool to

450
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: own a horse. And I really, um, I've really gotten

451
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: into in a big way. You know, I race and

452
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: I breed horses. I have a lot of horses in Kentucky.

453
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: And you've had a few big winners too. Yeah. Yeah,

454
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean if i've I've I've had a little bit

455
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: of luck. It's just so much fun. And I love

456
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: the social part of it. I loved getting dressed up

457
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: for the big races and throwing parties beforehand. It's just

458
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things that I think a

459
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: city kid, Um, it's nice to kind of get out

460
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: to the country every once in a while. And you know,

461
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: and I go to Kentucky a lot, and I spent

462
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: a lot of time there. I always tell people who

463
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: are from the downstate New York region who have never

464
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: been up to Saratoga. Man, hey, you have to get

465
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 1: up there. It's unlike any other place. Yeah. It's actually

466
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: six weeks from the middle of July to the end

467
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: of till till basically um Labor Day. Um. That there's

468
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: a great race meet some of the best horses in

469
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: the world, you know, show up there to compete. But

470
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: it's just a great social environment and it's and people

471
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: just have a great time. And the great thing about

472
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: a horse racing is for two dollars you can have

473
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: an opinion. Um. And actually, now you know, Governor Cuomo

474
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 1: appointed me to the New York Racing Association board. So

475
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: I've been trying my hand at that. That's a whole

476
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: new experience. That sounds like a lot of fun. You're

477
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna get involved in politics. UM. So let's talk

478
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: a little bit about the business of new restaurants. How

479
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: how often are you looking at new opportunities? Always, always,

480
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: always looking at new opportunities, you know, Um, besides my

481
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: Hi restaurants, I also have a UM, I have a

482
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: slew of Burger places, eighteen bobbies, Burger palaces, you go,

483
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: you got it. And so you know, we're constantly looking

484
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: to to expand that as well. And I think that's

485
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: the one that sort of can grow from a business standpoint.

486
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: I think that the sky's the limit there for sure.

487
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: What's fascinating, and again, this is a business show. We

488
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: see McDonald's running into a lot of trouble. And then

489
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: we see places like Shake Shock, like five guys go

490
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: down the list of all the non burger king slash

491
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: McDonald's burger joints doing really well. What is it about

492
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: the simple burger that has so much room for potential growth? Well,

493
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: first of all, um burger is such an American thing.

494
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: It's something that never goes out of style. It doesn't

495
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: um have any loss of gain based on the economy.

496
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: It's always something that's gonna be um a popular period.

497
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, as our taste change

498
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: in this country for the better, people want better everything,

499
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: including burgers, And so I think that that's that's some

500
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: of the struggles that McDonald's is having. That now you

501
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: can get a better burger, you know, for for a

502
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: value price, right, not a buck or two more money.

503
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: You know, a meal at McDonald's is what five or

504
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: six dollars when you come out. You shouldn't know, Um,

505
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: when you come out of a place like Shake Shock,

506
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: it's eight or ten bucks. I'm assuming you guys similarly,

507
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: And I notice you guys do a lot of things.

508
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: The burger of the month. There's a lot of a

509
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: lot of variations there that I haven't seen elsewhere. Yeah,

510
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: and we you know, you know, unlike some of the

511
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: other other better burger places. You know, we have handcut fries.

512
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the it's the real you know, French

513
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: process of cooking French fries. Um. And you know, obviously

514
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: are the meat is amazing. All of our ingredients are

515
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: incredibly fresh. I mean, that's what people want to eat

516
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: these days. And if I can, if I can reach

517
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: people who can't get to my high end restaurants, whether

518
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: it's at their price point or they're just at it's

519
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: out of their location, um, I can reach them through

520
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: Bobby's Burger Palace. And that's that's really my goal. So

521
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: you started that out in smith Haven Mall by Stony

522
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: Brook University. What was it like first testing a new

523
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: burger joint out in the bourbs like that? Well, that

524
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: was our pilot store, you know, and um, it's uh

525
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: it was. It was a great testing ground, it really was. Um.

526
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: You know, it's in a mall, it's out in Long Island, um,

527
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: and people have really gravitating towards it. So how many

528
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: of these would you like to open? Are you're gonna

529
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: go for a hundred and more long term plan. I

530
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: don't look at it that way. Um. Right now we

531
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: have eighteen. We're gonna open another one in Maryland in

532
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: a few months, and then you know, we're gonna do

533
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: some we we want to go to them to the

534
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: Middle East as well and and open some there. But

535
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: we have this is a big country, and so we

536
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: want to go to places like Texas and California and

537
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: open more in Florida, places that we haven't done yet.

538
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: That sounds fascinating. And if you look at the success

539
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: of some of these other burger chains, clearly there's a

540
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: demand for higher quality, not quite fast food. Yeah, absolutely know.

541
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Shake Shack. You know they on their first day they

542
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: were valued at one point six billion dollars, not to

543
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: Chevy No. And some people say, well, is it overvalued?

544
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, who knows? I mean, but I think

545
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: I think the most important message there is that it's

546
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: a message that people are saying in the marketplace, is

547
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: saying we we want better and we'll pay a little

548
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: bit more for it. We saw that with Chapult, which

549
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: was first bought by McDonald's and then spun out as

550
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: a standalone and there's lines out the door constantly. We've

551
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: done a great job. It's clear that at least the

552
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: millennial generation is much more interested in fresh food that

553
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: willing to pay a little more, and they're really not

554
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: McDonald's customers. So let's talk a little bit about how

555
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: the Internet has has impacted the restaurant business. We have

556
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: yelped and you could purchase reviews and yelp which has

557
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: been a problem um for them. We have open table

558
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: Twitter blogs. How has the internet impact did the restaurant business? Well,

559
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: I think the Internet first and foremost has impacted it

560
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: from um, just from information. You know, obviously it's it's

561
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: the information highway as they call it. Right. So now

562
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: when people want to go to a restaurant, they go

563
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: to the Internet and they check certain blogs, they check

564
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: certain lists, and they see what people are saying about

565
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: your restaurant. UM, where the restaurant is. They're making reservations

566
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: online more than ever, and so you know, obviously it's

567
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: it's um. It's it's incredibly important and and and social

568
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: media as well. Does open table work for the advantage

569
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: of the restaurateur or is it taking money out of

570
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: their pockets? I don't. I mean it's taking money out

571
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: of our out of our pockets because we pay a fee,

572
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: so it literally is taking money out of our pockets.

573
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean you pay for good service.

574
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: And I think that that open table is the way

575
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: people at this point want to make their reservations, and

576
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: so we make it available to them. Does it bring

577
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: more customers in? Is it an advantage to a restaurant?

578
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Because when I'm as someone who goes out to eat

579
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: a lot, when I look at a restaurant to get

580
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: the phone number, I see open tables over there, I'd

581
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: rather call directly than just click. But it's because you're

582
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: old school. I do the same thing. Yeah, I don't

583
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: know if it's old school. I just like, why am

584
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: I paying these guys two dollars just as happy? You know?

585
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: Why do I am I gonna make? Look? I put

586
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: myself through college and grad school as a waiter, as

587
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: as a as a bartender, so I know how a

588
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: little bit how the business works. And I'm always like,

589
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: why is this middleman between me and the restaurateur? And

590
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: how many people are they charging? How much it is

591
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: all the time. Well, that's just the cost of doing business,

592
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: I guess it is. And what about reviews, blogs, things

593
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: like that. Is that something that matters or is it

594
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: not as significant? You know, the movie we just saw

595
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: that was out last year was Chef with the famous

596
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: scene with the meltdown. Obviously it's a gross exaggeration, but

597
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: there's always a touch of truth. How annoying are some

598
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: of these um, Yelp reviews and blog you don't know?

599
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: To me, the problem with Yelp is that I don't

600
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: even know. It could be some of my competitors writing reviews.

601
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you still you don't know. So to me,

602
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: it's like it's the last place that I look as

603
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: opposed to, let's say, as the Gats, where I like.

604
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: I like. I like the Gats because they do really

605
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: um interesting stories and they have integrity. Um, there's a

606
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: there's a there's one called Infatuation, which I think is fantastic.

607
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: It's a couple of guys who have really built up

608
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: their business and they're building it more and more, and

609
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: they go into restaurants looking for the good. Now if

610
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: it's not good, they will tell you. Okay. It's not

611
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: like they're just gonna only write good reviews. But but

612
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: I like their attitude towards things. There were also some

613
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: bloggers who go on looking for the bad because they

614
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: feel like if they write a bad review, they're gonna

615
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: get more clicks because it's gonna get noticed. Yes, because

616
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: people like negativity. But you know, I think that's unfair obviously,

617
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: especially for restaurant tours who put up all their money

618
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: and their blood, sweat and tears, worked their whole careers

619
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: and then somebody's gonna write a bad review about them

620
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: because while they can get more clicks on their on

621
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: their on their site. It's not fair. No, that's not

622
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: And look, you know, if you've ever worked as a

623
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 1: as a waiter or a short order chef, it's really

624
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: hard work. This isn't the sort of thing that you

625
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: can phone in. No. I mean in New York I

626
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: think rub Street Is is a good one as well,

627
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: But frankly, the New York Times is the king. Really

628
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to restaurant reviews. There is no more

629
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: impactful review than the New York Times. It's not even

630
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: it's not even nothing is in the same ballpark. So

631
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: there's it's the New York Times, nothing else. Wow, that's amazing.

632
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: And you know, even out on in the Bourbs where

633
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: I live, we were going to this local restaurant. It's

634
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: called the Brass It's still called the Brass Rail and

635
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: great burgers, really good food. I love their caesar salad

636
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: specham wrapped around a romane lettuce and um. And then

637
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: the New York Times review comes out. You can't get

638
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: near the place months and it's even out in the burbs.

639
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: It's really yeah, it's really amazing there. Absolutely. Um, let's talk,

640
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: since we're in New York City, talk a little bit

641
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: about some of your favorite UM restaurants. And I want

642
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: to get down and dirty. So other than your own restaurants,

643
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: what's your favorite pizza here in the city. Uh pizza.

644
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: I like Motorno. I think it's a fantastic napoleonon style pizza. UM.

645
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: And how about your favorite uh burger joint? Oh? J G.

646
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: Mellins everybody I grew up there. Oh really, my father's

647
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: best friend owns it. So that. But but no, no,

648
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: no, no no, let me tell you. No bias involved, no

649
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: zero bias. You just love them burgers. And I get

650
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: it consistent. I get a check every time, So there's

651
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: no like, there's there's no sort of nepotism. I mean

652
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: it's but and you ask anybody if there's something about

653
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: that burger, and just like you asked me about the shows.

654
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: It's so simple, but there's something that hits the spot.

655
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: We've been speaking with Bobby Flay, restaurateur, cookbook author, star

656
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: of the Food Network. If you enjoyed these conversations, be

657
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: sure and check out our full podcast, where the tape

658
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: keeps running and we discussed many more things in great detail.

659
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: Be sure and check out my daily column on Bloomberg

660
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: View dot com. Uh follow me on Twitter at rid Holts.

661
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to Masters in Business on

662
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast. This is Barry Ridholts.

663
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I

664
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast, as we were talking earlier, because I

665
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about commercials or the time or

666
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: anything like that, and I could relax a little bit.

667
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: Um I mentioned previously, I first started eating your food

668
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: at Miracle Grill, which really stood out. That was that

669
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: the first restaurant where you really took over a kitchen

670
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: and made it your own. Yeah. I was the chief

671
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: there for three years and it was a brand new restaurant,

672
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: and I stayed there for three years in the kitchen,

673
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: and you know, it was a fantastic experience. It was

674
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: also a delightful restaurant. I think it was first and

675
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: sixth is that six and seven on First Avenue? And

676
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: it was also one of the first times in New

677
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: York City I had something with the Southwestern flavor. How

678
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: did you come by? And that's really become your signature.

679
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: You worked with somebody who exposed you to that. Tell

680
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: us a little a guy named Johnathan Waxman who now

681
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: has a restaurant called Barbuto in the West Village, And

682
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 1: if you haven't been there, go there. It's so good.

683
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: Um he um. He was from California and in the

684
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: early to mid eighties came to New York and basically

685
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: brought California and Southwestern cuisine to to the East Coast

686
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: for the first time. Uh and he I worked in

687
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: all of his restaurants, and I fell in love with like,

688
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, the you know, the fresh and dried chili peppers,

689
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: and you know, blue corn not not in a bag,

690
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: not in a tortilla chips, but like real blue corn

691
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: meal and making dishes out of blue corn and all

692
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: kinds of beans and limes and avocados and all those

693
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: amazing ingredients that make up Southwestern cuisine. So I really

694
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: decided to hone in on that as something that I

695
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: really want to to to research even further. So then

696
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: I went to the Southwest, and I worked in lots

697
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: of different restaurants, and you know, just for a few

698
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: weeks at a time. So one thing about our business

699
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: is it's very giving um and people let, you know,

700
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: chefs and cooks into their kitchens just to kind of

701
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: experience it. So you can reach out to a restaurant

702
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: in Arizona and say, how you don't know me on

703
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: Bobby Flay one day, I'm gonna be someone big in

704
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: New York, but I'd like to work in your kitchen

705
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: for a few weeks, and you probably get a positive response. Really, So,

706
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: how many different restaurants did you and what what was it?

707
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: California was in New Mexico, it was mostly mostly Texas

708
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: and New Mexico. I worked in about three or four

709
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: restaurants over like, you know, two month period, just kind

710
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 1: of hang out and see what was going on down there,

711
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: and you really pick up the flavor of that cuisine

712
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: and and then I came back and you know, worked

713
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: at uh a Miracle Grill, and then and then I

714
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: opened Macy Relle. So the love of barbecue does that

715
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: come directly from Texas? The love of barbecue is just

716
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: I just like it. Well, listen, what's more primal than

717
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: a couple of is throwing meat on an open flame.

718
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: But you really have taken it to a whole different level. Yeah,

719
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: I mean we can get into the whole barbecue versus

720
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: grilling things. Okay, so let's let's talk about that. Well,

721
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: do you know the difference between whether you're smoking something,

722
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: what's grilling in barbecue? What's the difference? Um? So, the

723
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: one thing I know is you don't close the lid

724
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: on the barbecue. You leave it open. Once you want

725
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: the open flame. I'll give us you're smoking. I'll give

726
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: you a simple definition. Go ahead. Barbecue is low and slow.

727
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: Grilling is quick. So if I'm grilling something and want

728
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: to grill a steak, you throw it on the grill,

729
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: you cook it for a few minutes, it's done. Barbecue

730
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: is like barbecue brisket or pork shoulder or ribs, things

731
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: that you cook really low and slow. Sometimes there's smoke

732
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: on it. Sometimes there's not, but that's basically I mean,

733
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: it's always there's always sa to smoke up. That makes sense.

734
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: Where do you come on the dry rub versus wet sauce? Uh?

735
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: I like them both. I like dry rubbing to create

736
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: a crust and I like to finish it with a sauce.

737
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: So you do both on the same meat. Yes, that

738
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: that's that's one way to uh, one way to solve it. Um,

739
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: what are the restaurant concepts are you thinking about going forward? Like?

740
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: Are you always you always have three or four restaurants

741
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: out ahead of you. I don't know about that. I

742
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: do want to you know, there's a possibility that I

743
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: want to do the next version of Masa Grill since

744
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: Macy Reill did close last year. UM, I miss it,

745
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: you know. But at the same time, you know, it

746
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: was twenty three years old and it was time to

747
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: to sort of do the next version of it. So

748
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: in some ways I might have been a blessing in disguise,

749
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: just like Goatto is the next version of what Bolo was.

750
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: Um that closed six years ago when they knocked them

751
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: building down. So you know, Gato is a Mediterranean restaurant.

752
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: Obviously Mason Grille would be more in the in the

753
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: south By Southwest vernacular, so that used to be on

754
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: lower Fifth below. That's fairly fairly prime real estate. Can

755
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: you now pop open a restaurant anywhere in New York

756
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: and in a lower rent district and you're still gonna

757
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: attract patrons or do you still need that sort of flow?

758
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: I think I want. I want every advantage I can get.

759
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: It's too hard. It's just it's just really too hard.

760
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like you look at the restaurants in Tribeca.

761
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to get to Tribeca, and I

762
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: love going to Tribeca, but I would say that restaurants

763
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: in Tribeca are at a disadvantage than in restaurant like

764
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: say in Midtown or you know, or like even in

765
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: NoHo or Soho, because there's just not as much traffic

766
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: and it's not like the rents are that much cheaper anymore.

767
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: There used to be this huge disparity that was a

768
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: lower rent district. You can't say that anymore. Now that's said,

769
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: there were some very successful restauranents in Rebeca. You know,

770
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: you talk think about Nobu Friends or Tribeca grill. You know,

771
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: there's a handful of there's a handful um of restaurants

772
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: in Tribeca that are successful, but not not dozens and dozens,

773
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: and and that's a function of the locale more just

774
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: to look Asian thing. So let me ask you what

775
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: surprises you when you open a new restaurant, because I

776
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: would imagine because you roll out a lot of fairly

777
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: creative dishes. I don't want to say out their dishes.

778
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: You're never weigh on the fringe, but you ever surprised

779
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: you roll out a new dish and it it flops,

780
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: and other dishes you think, ah, this is the throwaway.

781
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: I'll just put it on the menu and everybody's ordering it.

782
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: I think that you put menu. I think there there

783
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: is some look. I think that you have to have

784
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: a combination of a couple of things in your menu.

785
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: You have to have some things that are crowd pleasers.

786
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: So like, for instance, you know, you know people are

787
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: gonna order chicken. You know people are gonna order certain

788
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: kinds of fish like salmon. Um, you know they're gonna

789
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: order a steak. But you also have to have some

790
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: things that that um sort of add to the interesting

791
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: part of the menu. So like you know, if I

792
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: do a quail dish, I might sell five at night.

793
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's not going to be the most popular thing,

794
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: and I know it's not going to But for the

795
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: people who want to try something a little bit more

796
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 1: exotic or they don't want to go sort of down

797
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: the sort of pedestrian lane, there's something there for them.

798
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: And I think you have to have both. Do you

799
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: do you ever get really surprised by something that you

800
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: didn't think was gonna pop, that gets traction and takes off. Yeah.

801
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a there's a dish at um at Gatto,

802
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: which is a vegetarian dish. And you know, people are

803
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: eating vegetables, ma'am, more than ever. Um And and as

804
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: a chef, we have to make them more interesting. So

805
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: for instance, um, we have a dish called um it's

806
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: a piea, okay, and you usually piea has lots of

807
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: shellfish and chicken and charizoh, and it's it's it's you know,

808
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: it's got all these different proteins. We are. Paea is

809
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: made with kale and wild mushrooms and crispy water chokes.

810
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: It's completely vegetarian sounds awful and you're telling me that's delicious.

811
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: It's it's the number one entreeply listen to this, Okay,

812
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: we've been open for it just over a year. It's

813
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: undefeated every night, every single night, Um, since we've opened,

814
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: it's been the number one entree every night. That's that's stunning,

815
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: that absolutely stunning. So now let's expand that. How often

816
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: do you do something with a restaurant or you see

817
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: a new restaurant and you say that's a slam dump

818
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: that's gonna kill it and it flops or vice versa.

819
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: You walk out of a restaurant and go, I don't

820
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: know what these people are thinking, and it blows up.

821
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: You know. That's that's that's the thing about the restaurant business.

822
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: You can do everything right and fail. I mean I

823
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: really and it's it's it's hard to even believe that

824
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: that's true. But the restaurant business is a very tough business.

825
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: It's competitive, it's expensive, there's razor thin margins. Yes, and

826
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: also you can do things not well and be really successful.

827
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all been to restaurants where like you like,

828
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: this place is not good, but you turn around and

829
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: the place is packed and there's a line out the door.

830
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's listen. I I don't pretend to

831
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: know or have the magic potion for successful restaurants. The

832
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: only thing I you know, I'm a native New Yorker.

833
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: I feel like I know how to feed New Yorkers

834
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: and that's sort of how I keep it. And we're

835
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: a fairly discriminating bunch, but we're pretty open mind. Did

836
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: we tend to try a lot of different foods? Well, yeah,

837
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: but New York has a lot of options, and so

838
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: somehow you have to capture the customer. You have to

839
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: capture their attention, don't let them keep it. How important

840
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 1: is repeat business to a restaurant. It's it's life or death.

841
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: It's the life blood. It's the life of death. And

842
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, frankly like it got though it's a it's

843
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: a very difficult reservation right now. Um. We we've been

844
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: lucky enough to get some really fantastic reviews and buzz

845
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: and people really seem to like the restaurant. So people

846
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: are coming far and wide to eat there. They're making

847
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: reservations thirty five days ahead of time. Um, but I

848
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: know that the core of my business there for the

849
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: long term are the people that live in the neighborhood.

850
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: So we really look to take care of people in

851
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Like if somebody from around the corner um

852
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: walks into the restaurant, we'll find a table for them.

853
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: So do you expect that a hot restaurant eventually cools

854
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: all has it becomes just a local neighborhood joint. It

855
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: has to the question. The question is, and you've seen

856
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: this many times hot restaurants, you can't believe how hot

857
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: they are, and then you look at them six months

858
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: later and they're gone. The key is it's about I

859
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: would say it's about eighteen months. If you if you

860
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: have if you're lucky enough to have a restaurant that

861
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: has some buzz and it's hot and has some good reviews,

862
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: that around eighteen months, a lot of that sort of

863
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: just fades away. And if you can transition to then

864
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: become a restaurant that people think of as one of

865
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: their sort of local places, then you can have success

866
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: and you you can actually run into an issue where

867
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: people are even afraid to try, Oh, I'll never get

868
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: a rest We don't want anybody to feel that way,

869
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: So that that sounds like you have a a savvy approach. Um,

870
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: let's talk about some other chefs. You mentioned one earlier

871
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: that you really liked. Who are the chefs that you

872
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: think are underrated or underappreciated that you really like what

873
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: they do? Uh? Underrated or under appreciated? M Well, we

874
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: can ask the other question, who do you think is

875
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 1: overrat um? That's not you know, That's why I asked

876
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: the first question. I thought you would prefer that that's

877
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: never happening. Um, I don't think any chef is overrated.

878
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: I think that if you're a chef, like you've given

879
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: your life to this business, it's like more powered to you.

880
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: You know, Um, who's overlooked? Who do people? Or let

881
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: me ask it differently, what chefs out there that you

882
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: found that you really like haven't been discovered by the masses.

883
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: That's not none, none, no, especially because because now if

884
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: somebody is really good, they get distarted. They get discovered

885
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: in about thirty seconds because of all the blogs and

886
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: the internet, social media, Twitter, So there's no more people

887
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: toiling away in obscurity. If they're half decent, they'll be

888
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: found exactly right? Is that good for the restaurant and

889
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 1: that's got to be good for chefs who are who

890
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: in the past might have been toiling away in obscure. Yeah.

891
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways it's almost too much information

892
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: because it's it's almost hard to separate at all. But

893
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: it's I think that in general, I think that you know, um,

894
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: it's just making everybody better. So that's one way the

895
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: industry has changed, the rise of social media and everything else.

896
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: How else has the restaurant business itself changed. I think

897
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: it's harder to make more. I think it's harder to

898
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: make a profit, um, just based on what's going on

899
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, you mentioned earlier in New

900
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: York City is making it harder to be a restaurateur.

901
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: What are some of the things that the city is doing. Well,

902
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: it's a city and the state really, but it's you know,

903
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: the the tip credit um for for explain that people

904
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: used to service used to get paid a low wage

905
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: to it dollars an now and they would actually earn

906
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: most of their living on of course, because that's how

907
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: that's how service makes basically. Has that changed, Well, it's

908
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: it's going to add hundreds of thousands of dollars of

909
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: costs to a restaurant tour um depending on how much

910
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: business you do. And it's just makes it almost impossible

911
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: two um to turn a profit. So what's the thinking

912
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: behind that? Because a decent restaurant with a good waiter

913
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: is going to make a couple of hundred bucks a

914
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: night easily. What's the thing behind it? I have no idea.

915
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make any sense. Well not to me.

916
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it was done for for a particular reason,

917
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: but I just I just think that, um, you know, listen,

918
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a political issue obviously, but I

919
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: I just you know, I when I look at it,

920
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, Okay, we're giving hundreds of people

921
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: jobs or across the board in New York, you know,

922
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: thousands and tens and tens of restaurants in New York. Yeah,

923
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean you can't I can't imagine how many jobs

924
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: that restaurant tours are giving out there. And so that

925
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: so that should we should be in some ways celebrated

926
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: for that. Instead we're being penalized for it. And it

927
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: just makes it almost impossible. You'll see restaurants closed because

928
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: of it, be close of this yeah, absolutely that And

929
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: and is Is there any pushback? Is there any Backlas show, Well,

930
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: there will be pushedback. It's supposed to start January one

931
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: of next year, and you know, we're we're basically looking

932
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: at lots of options. Has there been litigation filed against

933
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: the city for this? Um? I don't know, and it'll

934
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: be interesting to see, uh how this developed. So so

935
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: that makes it more difficult to run a restaurant in

936
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: New York City. How do you like the the A, B,

937
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: C D restaurant ratings which we now see in windows?

938
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: I like the A, B, C D restaurant ratings. You

939
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: know when it first started, Um, there was a lot

940
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: of controversy about you know, uh, the city going after

941
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: every single restaurant, failing them, then passing them and making

942
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: us pay fees. I mean again, it was another controversial

943
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: thing that happened. Um. I think that I think the

944
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: Health Department has now got it right. And for people

945
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: outside of New York City listening to this, every restaurant

946
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: in New York gets a health grade and it's right

947
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: in your window. It's an A. And let me tell

948
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: you something, you don't have an A, R, A B.

949
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: People aren't going in there. That's true. You know, so

950
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: you have it's either a or your toast. Yeah, but

951
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 1: you know, listen, I think that what's happened now is that, um,

952
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: I think the Health Department is sort of seeing like

953
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: that they're basically making judgments. Of course, there's always a

954
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: they can always get you on some technicalities that have

955
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you know, with really serving clean

956
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: and healthy food in a clean and healthy environment. And

957
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: so um, I think that they're taking a much bigger

958
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: picture of you now, and I think it's I think

959
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: it's actually working out well. So this is actually a positive. Yes,

960
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: but it started out it was a disaster. When the

961
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: disaster disaster, it was a mess. There were a lot

962
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: of good restaurants that we're not getting as well. They

963
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: they they they took Thomas Keller at per Se, who

964
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: was you know, charges five a person. Basically they took um.

965
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: You know, I can't remember what happened, but they either

966
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: gave him a really bad grade or they're closing down

967
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: to something ridiculous. And then and then there was like

968
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: outcry from everybody, like the New York Post road some editorial,

969
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: I mean, and they find only sort of took a

970
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: look and got their act together said we we we

971
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: need the bigger purposes to clean up the troublesome rest exactly,

972
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: not take the top to your restaurants that are doing that,

973
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: are actually have that have great technique and set the

974
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 1: standards kitchens and cleanliness. And look, anyone who's ever worked

975
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: as a waiter can tell horror stories. Of course, milk

976
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: left out overnight, and that that's probably the least terrible

977
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: thing you could say. So let's let's keep plowing through

978
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: some of my um questions about your cooking. So, I

979
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: know you started you fell in love with Southwestern cuisine,

980
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: but how is your cooking evolved since then? Well, now

981
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm cooking Mediterranean food at Gato, So I mean, I

982
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: that's a big change. I do a little bit of both.

983
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I love I love traveling in

984
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean. I love you know, Italy and France and

985
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 1: Spain and Greece and you know, on and on and

986
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: so I love eating that way. So I decided to

987
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: open a restaurant of how I want to eat today,

988
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: and that's what Gato is. So how often do you

989
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: actually all the cooking You're you're back on the kitchen,

990
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: Like if I walk into Gato on a Friday night,

991
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: Bobby Flay is making my dinner, really, and that's really

992
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 1: not the case for a lot of other chefs who

993
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: do a little bit of everything. Yeah, I mean, like

994
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: I said before, my most favorite place to be is

995
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: the kitchen, and so you'll you'll find me my restaurants

996
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: almost whole the time. So what else were your big

997
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: food influences? Meaning? What? So? What did this? Clearly this

998
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: just doesn't pop out of nowhere? Your parents, friends, family,

999
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: like what first started pushing you into um, becoming a

1000
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: chef wanting to run restaurants? That that just doesn't spring

1001
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. I need a job. So that's how

1002
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: you first started working in the restaurant. You left high school,

1003
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: you started working and then you ultimately someone said I

1004
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: gotta send this kid to French Cornia Joe Allen who

1005
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: I mean famous Broadway restaurants still open. And you know,

1006
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: Joe gave me my tuition to go to school. I

1007
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: was working there. That was my first job, and then

1008
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: he said, you know there's a new school opening up

1009
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: called the French Culinary Institute and you should go there.

1010
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I don't want to go back

1011
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: to school. I had just gotten out of school. I

1012
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: was happy to be out of it. But anyway, I

1013
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: actually had to go back and get my my g

1014
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: e D, my equivalencely diploma in order to go to

1015
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: school there because but he had to see something in

1016
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: you to get you to uh just he didn't just

1017
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: randomly pluck you from the line. Yeah, I mean, I

1018
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: think he thought that, you know, maybe I could be

1019
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: an asset to him later on, and I listen, he

1020
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: The thing about Joe Allen that I was taught and

1021
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: have taken with me is he doesn't do everything for

1022
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: the money. He does things because he feels like doing

1023
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: it and he feels like it's the right thing to do.

1024
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: And that's what he did by handing me my tuition

1025
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: that day. That's an amazing, amazing story. So we're talking

1026
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: about some changes in the industry, it's not just the internet.

1027
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: What's your opinion on food trucks. I love food trucks,

1028
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: but like like anything else, is good food trucks and

1029
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: not good food trucks. But I think it's really cool

1030
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: that you can get like, you know, Korean tacos that

1031
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: are delicious on a food truck, or you can I

1032
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: mean you name, you name a cuisine, it's a truck.

1033
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: And I think that that's great. If you go over

1034
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: to sixth Avenue in the mid forties, you'll you can

1035
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: walk four or five blocks and come across a dozen

1036
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: different It's amazing. And you know what it does. It

1037
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 1: gives people who have the passion for this an opportunity

1038
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: for not so much money to actually go out and

1039
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, put their own shingle out. And it's not

1040
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: running a restaurant for two million dollars. You get a

1041
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: truck and and basically you start promoting. And I love that,

1042
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: and I think that that's a great way for somebody

1043
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: to start a business. Is that potentially an entree into

1044
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: the restaurant business for this for sure? I mean there's

1045
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: there's been plenty of stories of food trucks turning into uh,

1046
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, Brooks and mortar actual restaurants. And then I

1047
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 1: want to I want to talk a little bit about

1048
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: the cookbooks, because we really have glossed over that. What's

1049
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: the process like of creating a new dish? Is this experimentation?

1050
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: Are you looking at a dish and saying, you know,

1051
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: I could twist this a little bit and make it

1052
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: more interesting. How do you come up with something that's

1053
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: unique and special and not just you know, grilled chicken.

1054
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: You know, I have this team of women in my

1055
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: office known as the B Team. I don't know if

1056
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: you've looked at my website, but they are, um they're

1057
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: all they all have their own lanes um as my assistance,

1058
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: but they all share one thing, which is they they

1059
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: all love the cook and they all love food. So

1060
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: in my office, all we're doing is talking about ingredients

1061
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: and dishes and restaurants and on. I mean, that's basically

1062
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: the conversation that happens. Like it'd be like a Bloomberg.

1063
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,240
Speaker 1: I mean, people are talking about finance in my office,

1064
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: We're always talking about food at some level. So those

1065
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 1: conversations spur all kinds of things. They spur new shows,

1066
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: new new dishes, new idea is when I need to,

1067
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: like you know, I'm working on my spring menus for

1068
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: God doing for Bar American right now. Like I'll sit

1069
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: down with them and I'll brainstorm with them. Those That's

1070
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: how books and shows and new dishes, that's how it

1071
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: all gets done. How often are you coming up with

1072
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: new dishes for for the restaurants? Is this seasonal four

1073
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: times a year. So and once you get a seasonal menu,

1074
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: does that continue unchanged or will you move stuff in

1075
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: and out? I move it. I moved it every day.

1076
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: So you tried different specials. You see what works, you

1077
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 1: see what doesn't work. That's it's an ongoing problect, completely ongoing.

1078
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: And the last question that has been tormenting me, why

1079
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 1: can I find the tormented the mesa recipe for the

1080
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: tie clams in in coconut curry. Uh, I don't know,

1081
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: is it it's clams? What was it? Just clams? So

1082
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: this was I want to say mid nineties, maybe even later.

1083
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 1: What was the dish though? So it was an appetizer.

1084
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: It was a bowl of clams in a thaie coconut

1085
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: broth and it had a red curry. It was sort

1086
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: of some fresh salantrou uh, some scallions and look, I've

1087
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: had variations of that dish in a million places. My

1088
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: wife to this dish. Oh you're seeing Bobby Flay today,

1089
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: ask him about that coconut. But what you did something

1090
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: with that that was unlike anything we've had else Well,

1091
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a lot of like aromatic,

1092
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: so it's like fresh ginger, garlic and onions, and then

1093
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: some chilies, and then you sweat it with some white wine.

1094
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: Let the white wine reduced alow way down, and then

1095
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: red curry paste, a good quality red curry paste. Let

1096
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: that cook for a little while. Then you add a

1097
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: bunch of coconut milk, um, and then let that cook

1098
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: for a little while. And then some some clam broth

1099
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: as well, and that becomes the broth. Then you strain

1100
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: that out and then you open the and you steam

1101
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: the clams in the broth. You cover it and then um,

1102
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: as soon as the clams are open, they're cooked. Then

1103
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: you put them in the bowl. You take the broth,

1104
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: add a whole bunch of fresh silancho and scions onto it,

1105
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: and then just pour it over the over the clams

1106
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: and you're done. How did you get all that? So?

1107
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: I served with some bread, some toast, some fresh some

1108
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: fresh bread with us. All Right, we're down because I

1109
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 1: know I have to get you out of here sooner

1110
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: rather than later. We're down to our last Um. A

1111
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 1: few questions that that dish. By the way, I'm not exaggerating.

1112
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: My wife, it's got to be ten or fifteen years ago.

1113
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: She still brings it up. She's like, be sure you

1114
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: ask him about that, because we've never been able to

1115
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: find I have a stack of your cookbooks at home.

1116
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: I brought two of them in today. We've never been

1117
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: able to find that any of your cookbooks and we can.

1118
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: It continues to haunt me that that one dish you

1119
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 1: know how to make it? So all right, well, now

1120
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: she knows how to make it. I'm I'm in charge

1121
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: of grill. She's in charge of of that sort of stuff.

1122
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: So the one key question I asked everybody, and and

1123
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: take as much time as you are, as short as

1124
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 1: you want with this. So what do you know about

1125
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: the cooking business, about business in general, and about the

1126
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: television business today that you wish you knew twenty five

1127
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: years ago when you started all of it? I knew nothing.

1128
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: I mean I still know nothing. But I mean I'm

1129
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: gonna stop you right there and say I think you

1130
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: know more than nothing. Well, I mean, listen, it's let me.

1131
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna rephrase it. I'm gonna ask you a different question.

1132
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: What do you wish you knew twenty five years ago

1133
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: would have made your life easier? Um? Well, um, that's

1134
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: a very tough question. Isn't that a good question? I mean,

1135
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: honestly nothing. I mean, let me let me tell you,

1136
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: let me tell you why. Um. I've had a wonderful career.

1137
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: It's been so rewarding and so incredibly enjoyable that I

1138
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: think that not knowing things and learning them along the

1139
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: way has been really a big part of that. The

1140
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: journey has led you to who you are too. Yes,

1141
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: I I Um, I function with goals in front of me,

1142
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: and if I had if I just knew everything, then

1143
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have as many goals as I had then.

1144
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: And so to be able to kind of, you know,

1145
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: try to reach those goals and in some ways surpass them,

1146
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: in some ways not meet them. Um, that's been the

1147
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: fun part of it. As you call it, the journey,

1148
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: I think that that's that's what it's that's what it's

1149
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: all about. So you come out of the French Culinary Institute,

1150
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: do you have a set of goals when you graduate?

1151
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: You're saying, this is what I want to do. I

1152
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: want to be my own chef for a few years.

1153
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: I want to open my own restaurant. I want my

1154
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: own throat. I want Bobby Flake TV. Well, no, the

1155
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: TV was never thought of, I mean because there was

1156
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: no precedent for it. So I never thought I'd be

1157
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: on television cooking. But I always wanted to open a big,

1158
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: bustling restaurant that had a lot of energy, and that

1159
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: turned out to be Masa Grill. So that was my

1160
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: only goal. And what how does Masa do out in Vegas?

1161
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: I would imagine that's a hop and joint out there

1162
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: does really well. We've been opened ten years. There any

1163
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: plans to open another one outside of New York City? Uh,

1164
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: it's definitely possible. But you know, I like New York

1165
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: and I like being in New York. And so you're

1166
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: in New York, Irish kid, grew up in New York.

1167
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: You strike me as a you know, really deep down

1168
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: inside sort of New Yorker. Oh no, it's not deep

1169
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: down inside, it's it's throughout me. Yeah, you got a

1170
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: touch of a New York accent. I mean, you know,

1171
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: my favorite thing about New York is the subway. You know.

1172
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: We came here from my office and someone said, oh,

1173
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna be late. No it's three minutes. Yeah, I'm

1174
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: ont park and oh no, no, we're gonna We're gonna

1175
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: trust me, and it's right up in this building. You

1176
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: pop up and it's it's I find it like fascinating.

1177
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if they'll ever get around to finishing

1178
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: the Second Avenue subway. They're probably gonna close it up

1179
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: again and start again in ten years, right and going

1180
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: down forever. But you know, my most valuable thing in

1181
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: my while is my metro card. That's really fascinating. Bobby,

1182
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being so generous with your time.

1183
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: You've been huge fans of your restaurants for as far

1184
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: back as I can remember, going back to Miracle Grill. Uh.

1185
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: We've been speaking with Bobby Flay, restaurateur, cookbook author, food

1186
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: network star. If you enjoy this conversation, look up an

1187
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: intro Down an Inch on iTunes and you'll see the

1188
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: rest of our shows. Um be sure and check out

1189
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: my daily column on Bloomberg View dot com or follow

1190
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: me on Twitter. I forgot to ask my Twitter handle

1191
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: at Ridholtz. You're on Twitter at b Flay at b

1192
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: Flay To check out Bobby Flay. You can also see

1193
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: Bobby Flay dot com. You have a list of all

1194
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: your shows, you have recipes, you have cookbooks, everything else,

1195
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridholts. You've been listening to Masters in Business

1196
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio