1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Well, Elon Musk is 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate. 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: He says. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 3: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 3: be different. 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: He'll vote Republican. 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: on him. 12 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 3: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: of him anything he does, he's fascinating people. We built 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 3: the factory here in less time than it would have 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 3: taken to get THEE permits in California. 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Elon, Inc, Bloomberg's weekly show about all things 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, March twelfth. I'm Max Chafkin in 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: for David Popadopolis. You just heard Elon Musk talking about 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: his newly adopted state, Texas. This podcast is headed there. 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 3: We're going to. 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Austin for the South by Southwest conference this week where 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: we're doing a live show about all things Musk in Texas. 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: So today we've got a really interesting shorter episode featuring 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: Josh Green, who's Business Week's politics writer. And then on 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Thursday you can come right back to this feed and 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: get the full length Texas sized episode from Austin. Last week, 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: Elon took his jet to Florida, where he met with 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: Donald Trump to talk about, among other things, money. The 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: world's second richest man is of great interest to the 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: Republican presidential contender, as Trump's fundraising has struggled in comparison 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: to President Biden's and Elon of course has taken a 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: very strong, almost obsessive, you might say, interest in US 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: politics and seems very sympathetic to Trump's ideas and ideology 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: and politics. And we've the perfect guest to talk about this, 35 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: Josh Green, BusinessWeek's politics writer. He has a new book 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: that you should check out. 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: The Rebels. 38 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Josh also wrote pretty much the defining book about the 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: rise of Donald Trump. It's called Devil's Bargain. Josh is 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: here to talk about the complicated relationship between Elon Musk 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: and Trump. Josh, thanks for coming on, Elon. 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: Ink great to be with you. 43 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 3: All Right, So what is. 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: The status of the Elon Musk Donald Trump relationship? 45 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: Well, I mean they have a long and interesting relationship. 46 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 2: I mean Trump and Trump's White House has always been 47 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 2: fascinated by Elon. During the transition, right after Trump was 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: first elected in twenty sixteen, Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner 49 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: had him into Trump Tower and they wanted him to 50 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: be a kind of an avatar of the new Trump 51 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: administration because they were big into building things in America, 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: and Elon was a big automaker who built cool things 53 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: in the United States. And this was at a time 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: where like every reputable business didn't want to get within 55 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: one hundred yards of Donald Trump. So they brought in Elon, 56 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: and at one point he was set to chair a 57 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: new kind of committee of industrialists that Trump was putting together. 58 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: I actually had a source and reached out that was 59 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: going to leak this to us at Bloomberg News, and 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: then Trump did something awful and Elon kind of backed away. 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: I forget what exactly the controversy was. But back then 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: Elon still cared about kind of maintaining a good reputation 63 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: with kind of non right wing, non maga America. But 64 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: over the last for eight years, he's obviously traveled on 65 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: this pretty extraordinary political journey. Musk has and Trump has too. 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: He's back, He's going to be the GOP nominee, and 67 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: he now very badly needs one thing that Elon has 68 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: a lot of, and that is money. You know, Trump 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: has had an easy run through the Republican primaries, but 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: he has a big problem. He only has about thirty 71 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: million dollars. Four years ago at this time he had 72 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: abo one hundred million dollars, and I think he views 73 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: Elon as somebody who could easily fund his campaign, and 74 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: so he's had him down twice. Now I think tomorrow 75 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: lago to kind of sweet talk him and hopes that 76 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: Elon will jump on board the Trump train. 77 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course, I mean, unlike most people who 78 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: are near the top of the Bloomberg billionaire's list, Elon 79 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: Musk is not averse to these kind of far extreme 80 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: right wing politics. There's obviously like a close ideological connection 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: at this point. Just to go back to that, to 82 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: the history you're talking about, so, as I remember, there 83 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: were Tesla customers that were really mad about Donald Trump's 84 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: border policy, and I think back then he might have 85 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: been worried about what would the blowback be for customers, 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: But of course, as you point out now that there's 87 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: no risk of that for Elon Musk, right. He's on 88 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: Twitter every day essentially tweeting things that are pretty close 89 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: to white nationalism, lots of border panic, lots of concern 90 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: about minority groups. 91 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: It's very much. 92 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: The same thing that Donald Trumps saying from the campaign trail. 93 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean I think two 94 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: things have happened to bring us to where we are now. 95 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: One is that Trump has been normalized to a large degree. 96 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: When he was elected in twenty sixteen, corporate America didn't 97 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: want to have anything to do with him at all, 98 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: and that was a real humiliation and embarrassment to Trump, 99 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: who wants nothing more than to be seen as important 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: and genuflected to, especially by kind of sexy business leaders 101 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: like the tech industry. There's a famous meeting Elon was 102 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: at it during the transition where Trump flew all these 103 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: people and he was really hoping they would get on board, 104 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: and they didn't. Now you see a lot more corporate 105 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: business types and tech especially tech types, CosIng up to Trump. 106 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: And at the same time, you have people like Elon 107 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: who have been fully red pilled and now kind of 108 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: spout a lot of the MAGA immigration great replacement conspiracy theories. 109 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: So they're really kind of Peas in a pod at 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 2: this point, that's something that Trump wants to take advantage of. 111 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: So totally Peas and the pop politically, but maybe interpersonally, 112 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: not exactly the best relationship. We have some tape of 113 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump talking about his you know, potential new friend 114 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: and campaign savior, Elon Musk. 115 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 3: No, he's got himself a mess, you know. He said 116 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 3: the other day. Oh, I've never voted for a Republican. 117 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 3: I said, I didn't know that. He told me voted 118 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: for me. So he's another post artist. But he's not 119 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 3: going to be buying it. 120 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: He's not going to be buying it, although he might later, 121 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: who hell knows what's going to happen. 122 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 3: He's got a pretty rotten contract. I looked at his contract, 123 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: not a good contract. But he's got sign up for 124 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 3: Truth and I mean separately. 125 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: He went on Truth Social, which, of course as a 126 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: competitor to Elon Musk's social network. Said when Elon Musk 127 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: came to the White House asking me for help on 128 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: his many subsidized projects, whether it's electric cars that don't 129 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: drive long enough, for driverless cars that crash, or rocket ship, 130 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 1: said nowhere I could have said, drop to your knees 131 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: and bag and he would have done it. 132 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, really some harsh stuff here. 133 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: Elon, meanwhile, has also said some not so nice things 134 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: to Trump, although probably not quite as sharps is that 135 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: he said, I don't hate the man, but it's time 136 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: for Trump to hang up his hat and sail off 137 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: into the sunset. 138 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: He also told Walter Isaacson that. 139 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: That Trump was one of the best bullshters ever, which 140 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: I think coming from Musk, maybe both an insult and 141 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: a compliment, but needless to say, they don't get along 142 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: super well, no they don't. 143 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: And also look, I mean the thing that was noticed 144 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: by Trump was that Elon basically went out and supported 145 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis, his arch enemy in the primaries, and then 146 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: when DeSantis crashed and burned, flirted with Vivic Ramaswami. So 147 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: not a lot of love lost here. I think the 148 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: problem for both of them is that they both have 149 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: this burning need to be the center of attention, and 150 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: so it's almost like when you put two opposite magnets 151 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: against each other, like there's just this kind of natural pushback. 152 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: As Steve Bannon once told me, Donald Trump doesn't want 153 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: any co stars and I think the danger of bringing 154 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 2: Elon Musk in too closely is that, look, he's a 155 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: guy that generates a lot of attention, has a huge 156 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: social media file, and has the constant attention of the 157 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: news media. The problem for Trump, though, is he needs money. 158 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: He needs a sugar daddy, and he is looking at 159 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: Elon Musk to be that sugar daddy. There's a lot 160 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: that has gone wrong in Trump's world over the last 161 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: year or so. I mean, Number one, he has enormous 162 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: legal problems and that's really really expensive. And what's happened 163 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: is he's gotten the Republican National Committee in a super 164 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: pack basically to pay his legal bills. So donors don't 165 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: want to give money to Trump because they know it's 166 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: not going to elect Republicans, it's going to pay Trump's 167 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: legal bills. The donors wound up spending fifty million dollars 168 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: on Trump's legal bills last year. I just checked the numbers. 169 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: For January, they spent another five million. At the same time, 170 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: Trump has driven off the Republican Party's best fundraiser, former 171 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 2: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who's now gone. He also just 172 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: got rid of the head of the Republican National Committee, 173 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: Ronald McDaniel. And so there's like a real big problem 174 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: that Elon could if he wanted to solve for Republicans 175 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 2: by giving him a big chunk of money. And I 176 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: think if he were willing to do that, Trump would 177 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: overlook the slights, the support for destatus and so on. 178 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: But Trump is Trump, and he can't bring himself to 179 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: beg maybe not even to ask Elon. 180 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Also, after the New York Times reported and then I 181 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: think Bloomberg and some other outlets have also reported on 182 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: this this meeting, Elon tweeted that he's not going to 183 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: donate to either candidate. So, in other words, essentially it 184 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: seemed trying to deny these reports or to play them 185 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: down at the least. 186 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: Should we look at that as the last word? 187 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean, there are other avenues that he could. 188 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: Donate, Yeah, exactly. No, that's not really the issue here. 189 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: I mean, you're limited by law to donating I think 190 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: it's three three hundred dollars to candidates. That's not really 191 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: what Trump is looking for. What he's looking for is 192 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: for Elon to give fifty million or one hundred million, 193 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: or why not a billion dollars to his superpack to 194 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: one of these places where there is no limits, that 195 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: can then go pay off his lawyers help him with 196 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: all his legal problems. Judge in New York Is just 197 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: forced them to put up three or four hundred million 198 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 2: dollars in bonds. And also, Republicans need to hold on 199 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: to Congress if they win the White House and want 200 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: to get anything done. So the RNC needs money, the 201 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: Senate needs money, the House needs money. All of these 202 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: Republicans running need money. Traditionally, the great fundraiser for a 203 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 2: party is its presidential candidate. But Trump just doesn't seem 204 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: to be able to do that because nobody nobody trusted 205 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: with money anymore. They don't trust that he's not going 206 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: to turn around and hand it to his lawyers. 207 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: So are there already, like people within the sort of 208 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: magaverse trying to figure out which super pack he might 209 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: donate to, or like, are Republican operatives already salvating I 210 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: mean you start saying like tens of millions or hundreds 211 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: of millions or even a billion dollars, I mean that 212 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: could be a huge windfall for lots of people, right 213 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: it could. 214 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: I mean there are a couple of you know, sort 215 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: of Trump endorsed super packs. They're supposed to be separate. 216 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: But the way it works in politics is you kind 217 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: of like wink wink and say, boy, I'm really impressed 218 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: with the Save America pack, and then everybody knows, okay, 219 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: that's the pack that has Trump's blessing, like we're going 220 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: to give money there. The problem is a Save America 221 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: pack sluiced fifty million dollars in its donations to pay 222 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 2: Trump's legal bills last year. So really all it is 223 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: is like a slush fund for Trump's lawyers. And look, 224 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: that's obviously that's just a hard sell for MAGA donors. 225 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: Nobody wants to think that they're basically just paying Trump's lawyers, 226 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: even like kind of hardcore MAGA fans. 227 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we you talked about some of the sort 228 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: of similarities between Musk and Trump, Right, they both like 229 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: being center retention, they're both very provocative. They're also both 230 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: cheap and Trump, of course sort of historically, you know, 231 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: doesn't like to pay his bills, right Elon Musk kind 232 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: of similar you know, his one of his big things 233 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: at Tesla and SpaceX is essentially trying to squeeze suppliers 234 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: at you know, talking to somebody who who wants to 235 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: sell them a rocket part for one hundred dollars in 236 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: saying hey, how about I pay twenty five? So my 237 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: question is what would Elon get out of this, Like, 238 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: what is the argument that Trump could make or what 239 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: is the threat he could make? 240 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: I guess well, look, I think the argument Trump could 241 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: make is, hey, I follow your tweets and you are 242 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: obviously like you've gone full maga. We have to keep 243 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: Joe Biden and the evil liberals out of the White House. 244 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: Come support my candidacy and things will be great for you. 245 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: The other threat he could make is to say, hey, Elon, 246 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: look at the polls. I'm going to be the next president, 247 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 2: and if you don't give me money, I'm going to 248 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: cancel all your government contracts and make life hell for you. 249 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: But I think there's a more creative answer to that question. Max. Look, 250 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 2: Elon Musk has a dying property in Twitter or ex 251 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call it these days, like 252 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: nobody's on there. Remember when Elon took over, he reinstated 253 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: Donald Trump's account, and Trump hasn't used that. So, if 254 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: you're Elon and you need engagement and you need people 255 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: getting on there. Maybe he goes to mar A Lago 256 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: and says, the price of my financial support is you 257 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 2: Donald Trump getting back on Twitter and tweeting like a 258 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: madman the way you did back in twenty sixteen. That 259 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: will drive all kinds of eyeballs and attention to Twitter. 260 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: It will get Elon Musk more the attention that he wants, 261 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 2: and it will also be beneficial to Donald Trump because 262 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: not only will he have some money in his war 263 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: chest to pay off the lawyers, but it'll also have, 264 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: you know, be back to having all the attention he 265 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: did from cable news, from the media back in the 266 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: sort of golden era of twenty sixteen when he first 267 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: took over Twitter by storm. 268 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: I love this sery. 269 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: I've thought about Trump runs this competing platform. I'm not 270 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: sure the market is big enough for two trolling right 271 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: wing social networks. You know, Elon Musk is eventually going 272 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: to need to take Twitter public to give his investors 273 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: some sort of exit truth social has this spack? Why 274 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: why stop at just having Donald Trump tweet? 275 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Look, these are two distressed assets in Donald Trump 276 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: and Elon Musk, and maybe what they need to do 277 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: is perform a merger that each can convince will be 278 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: good for themselves and we will probably turn out to 279 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: be a disaster for America, but certainly something to talk about. 280 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: And and I know Trump wants it to happen, so 281 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 2: I think the balls and Elon's court and will have 282 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: to wait. 283 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: To So okay, so let's we'll start to wrap up. 284 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: But just just looking ahead, I'm kind of curious, So 285 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: how big a deal politically would an Elon Musk endorsement 286 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: or a big. 287 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 3: Check like like will he have? 288 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: Does he become an important surrogate or somebody who Trump 289 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: you know will okay, yeah, no. 290 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: No, not all. 291 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: Anybody. 292 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: Anybody who is an Elon Musk fanboy, if they even vote, 293 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: is by definition I think a maga voter. Maybe on 294 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: the margins. If Elon launched a register to vote campaign, 295 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: maybe you could move the numbers on the margins. But 296 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is not going to persuade independence and soft 297 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: Democrats to vote for Donald Trump. I think his only 298 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: real contribution, at least the Trump world views it this way, 299 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: is money, and the fact that he has a lot 300 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: of it makes him a tantalizing target. And I think 301 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: that's why he keeps getting invited back tomorrow longer. 302 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: Okay, great, well let's leave it there again. 303 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 3: We're gonna keep following this. 304 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll have Josh back on to discuss, you know, 305 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: any any possible Elon Musk Donald Trump deals, and also 306 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: just to talk about the state of the race because 307 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: of course X is gonna play a role here. Elon 308 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: could potentially play a role and I think there's there's 309 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot to pay attention to, So Josh, 310 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: thank you very. 311 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: Much, Gonna be with it. 312 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and 313 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: Rayhan Harmasi are senior editors. 314 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: The idea for this. 315 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: Very show also came from Rayhn Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, 316 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our 317 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson and thanks a bunch to 318 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: Joel Weber. The Elon ing theme is written and performed 319 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: by Taku Yasuzawa and Alex Sagierra. Our executive producer is 320 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: Brendan Francis Newman. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 321 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: I'm Max Chafkin. If you have a minute right view 322 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: our show. We'll let other listeners find us. 323 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: And we will appreciate it. See you on Thursday.