1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stephew missed in History class from how works 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracey Wilson. 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Then I'm Holly Frye. We are picking up today where 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: we left off in the life of Harriet Tubmant and 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the last time we talked about her life while enslaved 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: in Maryland and her work with Underground Railroad. There's the 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: parts of her life and work the people are generally 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: most familiar with unless they have watched drunk history, thanks 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: in part to a reponderance of children's books about her 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: and the prevalence of the Underground Railroad and elementary school 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: lessons about slavery in the United States. But there was 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot more to Harriet Tubbans life and work 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: than her time as a conductor on the Underground Railroad. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Even during the years between eighteen fifty and eighteen sixty, 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: while she was actively leading enslaved people from Maryland into Canada, 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: she was also working with the move ments for abolition 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: and women's rights, and she traveled all over New England 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: to this end. She was connected to abolitionist John Brown 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: before his raid on Harper's Ferry, which was part of 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: a failed plan to start a slave uprising in the 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: months before the Civil War, and in Troy, New York, 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: she helped prevent an escaped slave named Charles Knall from 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: being captured by slave catchers uh and being returned South 24 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: by literally shielding him with her own body. Basically, she 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: did a lot and a lot of her work beyond 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: the underground railroad is overlooked entirely besides that drunk history 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: episode that I keep mentioning because it is quite funny, uh, 28 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: And that's what we're talking about today. We've talked in 29 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: more detail about how the Civil War started in our 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: podcasts on Robert Small's and there's some overlamp in this 31 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: story in that one. So if you've heard those podcasts, 32 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: some of this information might ring a bell. Very long story, 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: very very short. As the balance of power in the 34 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: United States government started to tip in sae for a 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: free States, slave states felt increasingly threatened. Many promise to 36 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: secede if Abraham Lincoln were elected president, and he was 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 1: so they did. Senator William H. Seward, who actually had 38 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: sold Harriet Tubman land in New York that was adjacent 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: to his own property, was one of the legislators who 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: introduced measures meant to try to appease the Southern States 41 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: in an effort to stop this secession crisis. These measures 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: included the return of escaped slaves back south. When this happened, 43 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: a lot of Tubman's friends started trying to get her 44 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: to flee back to British North America, which would become Canada, 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: from Albany, New York, where she had settled with her 46 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: aging parents. Because Seward and Tubman knew one another, people 47 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: were afraid that he can bite send her back to 48 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: Maryland as a show of goodwill to the South for 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: the sake of trying to hold the union together. The 50 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: idea that people would even think this really shed somewhit 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: on the links that like the the federal government slashed 52 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: the Northern States were willing to go to try to 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: keep the South from succeeding, like the fact that that 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: would even occur to people. She did not heed this advice, though, 55 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: and in the end Stewart did not use her as 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: a pawn. So we're including that mostly because it's illustrative 57 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: and it's not entirely clear what she did for the 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: first six months or so of the war. Her biographers 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: actually disagree, and even with that disagreement in mind, there 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: are still gaps left open where there's no information. But 61 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: by October of eighteen sixty one, she had started passing 62 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: the Union information about how the war was affecting enslaved people, 63 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: delivering her intelligence to Franklin Sanborn. Sanborn had been one 64 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: of the Secret Six co conspirators in John Brown's raid 65 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: on Harper's Ferry prior to the war. That fall, she 66 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: also traveled to Boston to talk to John A. Andrew, 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: who was the governor of Massachusetts, about how she might 68 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: serve the Union in the war. He thought, given how 69 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: long she had been undertaking secret missions into slave territory 70 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: as part of the Underground Railroad, and how staunchly opposed 71 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: she was to slavery, that she might make a good 72 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Union spy. Once the Union captured the Sea Islands off 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: the coast of South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, the same 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: islands that were so familiar to pass podcast subject Robert 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: Smalls Tubman did indeed go there to serve. In early 76 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, she was sent to Beaufort, South Carolina, 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: and from there to Port Royal Island. Her cover was 78 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: that she was there as part of a humanitarian mission 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: arranged by Boston Society's Rebolition to try to provide clothing 80 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: and other necessities to Port Royal Islands formerly enslaved population, 81 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: and she did do some of this humanitarian work, as 82 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: well as acting as a nurse to both soldiers and contraband. 83 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: Contraband is the catch all term for formerly enslaved people 84 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: who made their way to Union controlled territory. Her first 85 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: months in Port Royal were difficult. A number of missionaries 86 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: and or volunteers there died due to disease and extreme heat. 87 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: General David Hunter had issued an order that all enslaved 88 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: people in Union held territory be declared free, but Abraham 89 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: Lincoln had reversed that order, afraid it would provoke the 90 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: South even further, and this reversal, of course, enraged both 91 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: enslaved people and abolitionists. It's another example of lengths to 92 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: which the federal government was willing to go to appease 93 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: the slave States. Uh that could be a whole other 94 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: podcast anyway. Eventually, the Emancipation Proclamation was issued on January 95 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: one of eighteen sixty three, which freed the enslaved population 96 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: in the states that were rebelling against the Union. Also 97 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: in January, Colonel James Montgomery was authorized to recruit black 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: soldiers into military service and train them to be soldiers. 99 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: Once those two things happened, Tubman started investing her pay 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: into building a washhouse so she could teach formerly enslaved 101 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: women how to make a living for themselves. She invested 102 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: most of the rest of her money into similar endeavors, 103 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: and she gave up her privilege of military rations because 104 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: she thought it was causing jealousy among the people she 105 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: was working with. Instead, she made root beer pies in 106 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: gingerbread in her off hours so she could sell them 107 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: and earn her own keep. The presence of a black 108 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: fighting force played a role in Harriet Tubman's most famous 109 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: action during her time as a Civil War spy, which 110 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: was a raid up the Cumby River in June of 111 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three. You know, it's a little early, but 112 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: that is a pretty exciting story. We want to keep 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: it all together, so we're going to get to it. 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: After a brief word from a sponsor. By the summer 115 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: of eighteen sixty three, Harriet Tubman was definitely putting her 116 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: underground railroad experience to use as a spy in addition 117 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: to her humanitarian work. Earlier that year, she had been 118 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: issued a hundred dollars by the Department of the South, 119 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: which she used to create a spine network. Her spies 120 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: were all Contraband who had had experience as boat pilots 121 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: or doing other work on the water. Tubman ran this 122 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: network under the auspices of Colonel James Montgomery, who was 123 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: also by that point commanding the newly created second Regiment, 124 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: South Carolina Volunteer Infantry African Descent. That June, General Hunter 125 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: wanted to plan a raid of the Cumby River, which 126 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: was home to a number of plantations. It's possible that 127 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: the whole raid was Tubman's idea, based on intelligence that 128 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: she'd gathered from her network of spies. Exactly where this 129 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: idea actually came from is hard to pin down, but 130 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: the fact that Tubman played a critical role in it 131 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: is absolutely undeniable, along with the fact that she told 132 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: Hunter she'd only participate if Montgomery was in command. It 133 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: also seems as though she and her spine network participated 134 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: in other similar raids as well, but the Cumby River 135 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: raid is definitely the most famous. The plan was to 136 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: take a force up the Kumby River, evading and to 137 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: save ing minds that had been laid there, and then 138 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: raiding the rice and cotton plantations that lay along its length. 139 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: They would take what they could carry, liberate the enslaved 140 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: labor force, and then towards the rest of it. Apart 141 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: from the obviously humanitarian success of liberating hundreds of people 142 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: from slavery, this would also destroy a source of Confederate 143 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: assets and wealth. Tubman and the eight or nine scouts 144 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: that she employed together worked out the locations of all 145 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: the minds that needed to be disabled and spread the 146 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: word to the enslaved people on the plantations of what 147 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: was about to happen. She and at least some of 148 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: these scouts were aboard the lead boat when it's set 149 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: off up the river. Three gun ships in about three 150 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: hundred Black troops were involved as well. On June one, 151 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, they started their journey at the river. 152 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: They raided plantations in Cullaton and Bufort Counties, liberating the 153 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: enslaved people there, capturing what provisions they could and destroying 154 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: what they couldn't, so that the Confederacy couldn't continue to 155 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: use it. This whole thing happened with no injuries to Tubman, 156 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: her spies, or the Union fighting force who also participated, 157 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: possibly because the people who owned and ran the plantations 158 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: found the sudden appearance of the second regiment armed terrifying. 159 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: Farther upriver, plantation owners fled in advance of the incoming raid. 160 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: The rate captured about fifteen thousand dollars worth of property 161 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: and eight hundred and forty slaves, according to a letter 162 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: from a member of the Massachusetts fifty four Colored Regiment, 163 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: which was published in the New Bedford newspaper. According to 164 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: a letter that Tubman dictated herself, there were seven hundred 165 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: and fifty six slaves who were liberated. It was this 166 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: and other actions that wound up earning Tubman the nickname General, 167 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: with newspapers even going so far as calling her the U. S. 168 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Armies first woman general, even though she didn't actually hold 169 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: an official military rank. She is, however, the only woman 170 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: known to have led a military operation like this during 171 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: the Civil War. Aside note, after this mission, Tubman wrote 172 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: a letter to ask for money to buy a bloomer 173 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: dress of sturdy material because she tripped on her own 174 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: dress and tore it to shreds while trying to hurry 175 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: escaping slaves to the boats. A bloomer dress, as the 176 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: name suggests, had billowy pants under a shorter skirt, so 177 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: it would have been much more practical for running around. 178 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: That story really cracked me up. I need a better outfit. Yeah, 179 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: that's one of the One of the things that I 180 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: am to you while I was researching was this story 181 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: about the bloomer dress. Uh. The Coumpy River raid was 182 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the most dramatic moment in Harriet Tubman's Civil War service. 183 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: I mean a troops troops of one of the first 184 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: regiments for black soldiers making their way up the river 185 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: and burning down plantations is by itself pretty dramatic. But 186 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: for about a year after it was over, she stayed 187 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: in the Sea Islands. She maintained a spine network, acted 188 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: as a nurse, and can can you, supporting herself with 189 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: her baking and root beer. Following the raid, a big 190 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: part of her work turned towards seeing to the welfare 191 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: of the people that she had just liberated. While healthy 192 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: adult men were mostly recruited into the army, many others 193 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: were ill or injured, and none of them had what 194 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: they needed in terms of basic necessities. So as Harriet 195 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: continued her work as a nurse, she also developed a 196 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: reputation of being particularly skilled with herbal remedies, including a 197 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: treatment for dysenterry during an outbreak in eighteen sixty three 198 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: and eighteen sixty four. I mentioned it in the previous episode, 199 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: but we should pointed out here again that a lot 200 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: of this was probably folk traditions that had been passed 201 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: down from her ancestors who had learned them in Africa 202 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: and then brought them. Her grandmother was most likely a 203 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: member of the Ashanti tribe. In early eighteen sixty five, 204 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: Harriet Tammon went on leave and left the Sea Islands 205 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: to go north to try to visit her parents. Her 206 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: leave wasn't originally planned to be very long. The goal 207 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: had been to go back to the Sea Islands and 208 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: continue to educate the freed population on how to make 209 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: a living on their own, but she got sick while 210 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: she was away, and the war was nearly over when 211 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: she went south again, so she was still in the 212 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: North when Lincoln won reelection and when the Thirteenth Amendment 213 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: was passed an abolished slavery. When she did go south again. 214 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: Rather than to see Island, she spent time working as 215 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: a nurse in military hospitals in Virginia. In addition to 216 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: this work in nursing, she observed abuses that were going 217 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: on in some of the hospitals that she visited, and 218 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: she reported this information back to officials in Washington. After 219 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: the Civil War was over, Tubman and a number of 220 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: her abolitionists and civil rights allies really struggled for years 221 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: to try to get back pay for the time that 222 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: she had spent working for the Union Army, as well 223 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: as a veterans pension. These attempts were really unsuccessful because 224 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: she hadn't been enlisted. Because women couldn't enlist, she wasn't 225 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: viewed as a veteran even though she spent all that 226 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: time serving. Once the war was over, Tubman went back 227 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: to Auburn, New York, and we're going to talk about 228 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: her time there after. We paused for a brief word 229 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: from a sponsor. So going back to our tail. While 230 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman was on her way back to Auburn, New 231 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: York after the Civil War, a train conductor tried to 232 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: remove her from the train car that she was on. 233 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: She was traveling on a government pass rather than a 234 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: full price ticket, and the conductor, in addition to calling 235 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: her a racial epithet, tried to forcibly remove her from 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: the train. Seven had been doing manual labor for most 237 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: of her life. She was consequently very strong and she 238 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: resisted him powerfully. He called three men's who assist him, 239 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: and they threw her bodily into the baggage car. Her 240 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: arm was injured in all of this, and it's unclear 241 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: whether it was sprained or broken, but she wound up 242 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: having to wear it in a sling for a long 243 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: time afterward. She considered suing the railroad, especially because the 244 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: injury meant that she couldn't work, but nothing ever came 245 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: of it, apart from abolitionists and civil rights circles using 246 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: it to illustrate this discrimination on the railroad. Back in Auburn, 247 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: Tubman started something that would be her focus for the 248 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: rest of her life, and that was caring for people who, 249 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: because of age, poverty, illness, or other circumstances, couldn't take 250 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: care of themselves. Her home became a temporary lodging for 251 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: people that she had guided to freedom as they returned 252 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: back from Canada hoping to make their way home. She 253 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: typically had at least two or three people staying with 254 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: her who were elderly, sick, or otherwise in need of care. 255 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: She developed a reputation for never turning away anyone who 256 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: needed her help, whether she could actually afford to help 257 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: them or not. She also collected clothing and their nations 258 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: for schools for South Carolina's newly free population. Along with 259 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: other members of her household, she tried to make a 260 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: living through growing vegetables and fruit, raising chickens, bartering, and 261 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: doing domestic work. One of her Sarah Hopkins Bradford biographies 262 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: was actually a fundraising effort during this time. Their nations 263 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: from former abolitionists and civil rights reformers also helped to 264 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: pay the bills. Although she generally was extremely reluctant to 265 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: ask for money for herself, she would, however, ask for 266 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: money to help the people she was trying to help. 267 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: In the years after the Civil War was over, the 268 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: United States was struck with ongoing waves of racial violence. 269 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: In one of these, John Tubman, Harriet's former husband, was 270 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: shot and killed by a white man named Robert Vincent, 271 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: who was found not guilty by an all white jury, 272 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: and that event took place in eighteen sixty seven. In 273 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine, Tubman remarried to a man named Nelson 274 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: Davis at Central Presbyterian Church in Auburn. Davis had also 275 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: liberated himself from slavery. He had served in the Civil War, 276 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: and he had been boarding in her house for about 277 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: three years. In eighteen seventy three, Harriet Tubman and her 278 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: brother John Stewart had an unfortunate run in with a 279 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: couple of con men. They claimed to have five thousand 280 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: dollars worth of gold, which they were going to sell 281 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: Stewart for a mere two thousand dollars. They framed it 282 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: with a story that was taylor made to play on 283 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: tubman sensibilities. They said it was a trunk full of 284 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: gold that an ex slave had carried out of the 285 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: South and wanted to sell to her because he needed 286 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: money and he didn't trust white people. Stewart did not 287 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: have that kind of money, and neither did a sister. 288 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: But because of her work during the abolition movement and 289 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: her reputation from the underground Railroad, she was very well 290 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: connected with some of Auburn's most affluent and influential citizens. 291 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: Stewart looked some of them for money and a future. 292 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: A few people tried to discourage him from this whole 293 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: endeavor because they suspected correctly that it might be a scam, 294 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: but a man named Anthony Scheimer advanced them two thousand 295 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: dollars in cash, which the fraudsters said could only be 296 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: delivered by Tubman to a secret location. When the time came, 297 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: she went in to the woods by herself and found 298 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: the gold man, who claimed he had forgotten the key 299 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: to the trunk. She waited there for him while he 300 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: went to get it, and after he left, someone knocked 301 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: her out, probably with chloroform, tied her up, gagged her, 302 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: and stole the two thousand dollars. She actually managed to 303 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: get home again while she was still bound and gagged. 304 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: Authorities briefly suspected that Tubman and Stewart were in cahoots 305 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: with these conmen, and Scheimer claimed that he had loaned 306 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: the two thousand dollars with Tubman's house as collateral, so 307 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: her home and the shelter she was affording to many 308 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: other people were all at risk. In the end, though 309 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: Tubman and Stuart were cleared of all suspicion, with multiple 310 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: prominent people in Auburn speaking up for her absolute, unfailing integrity. 311 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: In the eighteen seventies, Tubman began attending the African Methodist 312 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Episcopal Zion Church in Auburn, where her husband was elected 313 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: as a church trustee. In eighteen seventy five. Tubman's father died, 314 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: her mother died in eighteen eighty her husband, Nelson Davis, 315 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: died of tuberculosis in By the late eighteen eighties, Tubman 316 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: was trying to turn her home based care for other 317 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: people into a more official charity, in part because most 318 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: of the places that we'd call nursing homes today weren't 319 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: open to black people, so she wanted to start a 320 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: quote home for aged and indigent negroes, which she hoped 321 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: to name John Brown Hall. To that end, she expanded 322 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: the industries being done at her home to include a 323 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: pig farm and a brickyard. She bid on neighboring land 324 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: and buildings at auction, even though she didn't have the 325 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: financing lined up to pay for him. Having successfully won 326 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: the auction, she called on her network at church and 327 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: in the community to scrape together a down payment and 328 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: secure a mortgage. From here, she turned to public appearances 329 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: and a new edition of her biography in the hope 330 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: of funding the rest of the one thousand, four hundred 331 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: and fifty dollars she needed. A lot of her speaking 332 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: engagements were at meetings and rallies to promote women's suffrage, 333 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: and she also spoke at the founding convention of the 334 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: National Association of Colored Women. But even so, raising the 335 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: money that she needed was extremely difficult, and she wound 336 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: up needing to remortgage her own home in eight After 337 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: speaking extensively at meetings and conventions for women's suffrage and 338 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: the National Association of Colored Women, reissuing her biography, and 339 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: continuing to try to fundraise for John Brown Hall, by 340 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: the mid eighteen nineties, Tubman realized she simply could not 341 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: do it all on her own. She turned to both 342 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: her friends from the Abolition movement and friends from the A. M. E. 343 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: Zion Church for help. Unfortunately, these two groups did not 344 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: work well together and they were sometimes at cross purposes. Yeah, 345 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: some of the biographers that look at this part of 346 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: her life get into probably some implicit racial bias on 347 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: the part of her friends from the Abolition movement. Because 348 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: there were definite, least some cases where it was like 349 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: her white abolitionist friends were making decisions based on what 350 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: they thought was best without actually consulting what was needed 351 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 1: or or what the people that they were trying to 352 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: fundraise for actually wanted. Over the years, the name and 353 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: the purpose of this project shifted as well. It went 354 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: from being John Brown Hall, which was a home for 355 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: im impoverished elderly people, particularly black women, to the Harriet 356 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: Tubman Home, which was both a residence for the elderly 357 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: and an industrial school to educate black women to do 358 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: domestic work. She actually felt kind of conflicted about this goal. 359 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: There's a whole other debate going on at the time 360 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: about what types of education the black community would be 361 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: best served by, Like was it best to have vocational 362 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: education so that people could learn to make a living 363 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: for themselves outside of the like the umbrella of slavery 364 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: and then um and then that would trick down to 365 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: like the next generations going to more academic colleges. Or 366 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: was it better to give people a more academic education 367 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: that would basically expand everyone's social standing and awareness. There's 368 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: a whole big debate about it. Um and then Harriet 369 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: Tubb and herself was kind of conflicted because she didn't 370 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: actually like doing domestic work. She had not been happy 371 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: doing that when she was younger. They didn't totally get 372 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: behind the idea of using her name to train black 373 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: women to do domestic work, but that's where it all 374 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: ended up. In eighteen ninety, Harriet applied for a Civil 375 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: War widows pension and she was finally granted one in 376 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: the amount of eight dollars a month. She and some 377 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: of her supporters once again renewed an effort to get 378 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: a pension based on her own service, and ultimately her 379 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: widows pension was raised to twenty dollars a month in 380 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: light of her work as a wartime nurse. She also 381 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: received a small lump sum of about five hundred dollars, 382 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: and that payout happened in eight This wasn't a lot 383 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: of money, though, and as we kept saying about, Harriet 384 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: Tubman was more interested in helping other people than she 385 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: was seeing to her own financial security. It's pretty clear 386 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: from her actions. So she spent the last years of 387 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: her life in poverty while still trying to see to 388 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: the needs of people who were even less fortunate than 389 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: she was. This sometimes drew the concerns of her old 390 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: friends and allies from the abolitionist movement UH. They were 391 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: worried that she was being taken advantage of sometimes, and 392 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: that worry actually was not entirely misplaced. In nineteen o seven, 393 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 1: she was robbed of money she had been given as 394 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: a Christmas gift, and that robbery was probably done by 395 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: someone who had been living with her. On May nineteenth 396 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: of nineteen eleven, she became ill enough to have to 397 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: move into the Tubman Home as a resident and be 398 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: looked after by nurses. She died there on March tenth 399 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirteen, at the age of roughly ninety three. 400 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, a payment of eleven thousand, 401 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty dollars was included in a Senate 402 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: appropriations bill basically as back pay for Harriet Tubmans wartime service, 403 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: with the idea that it would go toward restoring historical 404 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: sites that were associated with her life and work uh 405 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: and as was announced in April of which fostered a 406 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: flurry of requests about her. She is slated to appear 407 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: on a redesigned twenty dollar bill in the US on 408 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: the back will be the White House and President Andrew Jackson, 409 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: who is currently on the front of that bill. There are, 410 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: of course, many other lifetime and posthumous uh accolades granted 411 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: to her, and many things named after her, all kinds 412 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: of stuff. But that's really the highlights of the life 413 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: and work of Harriet Tubman, who's pretty awesome. Like a 414 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: lot of people know the Underground Railroad part, people that 415 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: watch drunk History or have seen that video on the 416 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: internet know the part about the Cumby River Raid. I 417 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: don't feel like it's particularly well known, especially maybe outside 418 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: of are New York. Then once the war was over, 419 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: she basically spent the rest of her life trying to 420 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: take care of people, even though she did not have 421 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: the money to take care of herself. She was basically like, 422 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm going to take care of these old 423 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: people who don't have anybody to look after them. I'm 424 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: gonna do whatever it takes to scrape up enough money 425 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: to make that work. I have one question, what is it? 426 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: Did she get the Bloomer dress? I don't know. That's 427 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: a great question, though my next question it would be 428 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: a listener mail I do. But before I get to 429 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: it um. I read two different biographies of Harriet Summon 430 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: for this, Uh. Like I said, the academic work on 431 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: her it is hard to come by. And so the 432 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: one of the funny things about it was that one 433 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: of the writers in the preface was talking about as 434 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: they were doing this research and going to all of 435 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: these sites and like pouring through archives, they kept seeing 436 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: the same name ahead of theirs in the in the registry, 437 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: and it was the writer of the other book that 438 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: I read. And the other thing is that the both 439 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: books and a lot of other writing does a lot 440 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: of comparison to Harriet Tubman and so Journer Truth, because 441 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: they have some things in common and they also have 442 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: some some differences. And one of the things that one 443 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: I don't remember which book it was, but one of 444 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: the things that one of these two books pointed out, uh, 445 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: was that so Journal Truth was not in favor of 446 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: bloomer dress. Harriet Tubman was like, can I plase have 447 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: a bloomer dress so I don't trip over myself while 448 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: escorting people to freedom? And so Journal Truth was like, no, 449 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: this is not what women should be doing with their 450 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: clothing anyway. I do, in fact, also have listener mail. 451 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: The slice boosterer mail is from Rachel and actually we 452 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: got a tweet about the same thing also, uh and 453 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: what a read it? And then I must talk a 454 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: little bit about how we came to that. So this 455 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: is for Rachel, and Rachel says Dear Holly and Tracy. 456 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: I started listening to stuff you met some history class 457 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: just a few months ago, but now it's one of 458 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: my favorites to listen to you during my hour long 459 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: subway commutes. I love supporting content written, produced and recorded 460 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: by women who strive to include diversity and support hashtags 461 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: like hashtag not only in the South, which is the 462 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: thing that we made up one time to point out 463 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people think that racism is only a 464 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: Southern problem, and that's false. To get back to the letter, 465 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: it's because of this that I'm writing you in regards 466 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: to your most recent episode Six Impossible Episodes. I was 467 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: thrilled that you mentioned Kitty Genovise is I think it 468 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: is a really misunderstood homicide case. But there was something 469 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: that you didn't mention that I think you'd be interested 470 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 1: in knowing. Kitty Genovise was a lesbian living with her 471 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: partner Mary and Zielanco at the time of her murder. 472 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 1: Forty years after her murder, NPR ran an interview with 473 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: Maryanne Zeilanco that was produced by Sow Portrait Productions and 474 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: which Marianne remembered Kitty and spoke about their relationship. The 475 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: Chicago Tribute also ran an article in two thousand four. 476 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: Another witness to the crime, Carl Ross, has also had 477 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: his name associated with the murder since his response of quote, 478 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get involved when the cops questioned 479 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: him repeatedly since he was friends with Kitty and directly 480 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: witnessed the murder. But it's possible he had a good reason. 481 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: It's believed that, in addition to the fact that he 482 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: was drunk the night of the murder, the fact that 483 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: Ross was gay is why he did not call the police. 484 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: There's another here's another article that talks about this, and 485 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: then she hasn't linked to it. The fact that Kenny 486 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: Genovies and potentially Carl Ross were gay is not well known, 487 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: although it has come more to light in the last 488 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: few years. I'm not sure if it had any effect 489 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: on why she was murdered, but I do think it 490 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: is an important thing to remember when talking about Kenny 491 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: Genovies and Carl Ross. Homosexuality was illegal in forty nine 492 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: states in ninety eight, including New York, and they had 493 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: very good reason to be afraid of the police. I 494 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: thought you and the other listeners and stuff you miss 495 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: in history class would be interested in this information. Thanks Rachel, 496 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: Thank you Rachel. Um So, had we done a whole 497 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: episode on Kenney Genevies, I probably would have found this information. 498 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: But because we the six impossible episodes format is usually 499 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: a shorter thing with less involved research, I did not 500 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: find that information. Uh So I did not know it 501 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: until Rachel wrote this email. But Rachel is absolutely right 502 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: um and looking into it further after getting this note 503 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: that the fact that there were other gay people living 504 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: in her neighborhood and the fact that she she herself 505 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: was a gay most definitely uh had an effect on 506 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: on how people felt like reporting it and UH and 507 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: whether they went to the whether whether they were okay 508 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: with going to the police. Um. It also definitely played 509 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: a part in how the case was investigated. There were 510 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: actually some speculations from law enforcement that Mary and was 511 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: involved in the crime in some way, which she was not. 512 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: Like Kitty Tenovies is Kitty Genevies is murderer, was a 513 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: serial killer who picked her at random, like the wrong 514 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. Um. But yeah, it's completely 515 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: logical that people who uh, it's completely logical that that 516 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: a gay community would have been reluctant to get involved 517 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: with the police. Um in nine. And it also was 518 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: completely logical that Marianne herself, since she was Kitty's girlfriend 519 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: and not just her roommate, probably would have been reluctant 520 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: to have that brought out as well, because in addition 521 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: to the fear of arrest and the fear of retaliation 522 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: by the police, would be the fear of people getting 523 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: fired if it came out in the newspaper that they 524 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: were gay. Like, there's a lot more going on there 525 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: and other violence being incited. I mean there's very real danger. Yeah, 526 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: like it's being out. Yeah, it's really easy to sit 527 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: in your armchair and be like, of course I would 528 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: have called the police. Uh, but in the moment, I 529 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: think there's a lot more nuance there. Um. And Carl 530 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: Ross I think eventually did call the police. He just 531 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: didn't call the police in the first moment that he 532 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: realized what's going on. Also, Kenny Geneviz's brother made a 533 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: documentary about her, and it's called The Witness, and I 534 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: haven't seen it because at this point it has only 535 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: played at a couple of film festivals. Um. But actually 536 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: I think by the time this episode comes out, it 537 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: will have opened in New York City and possibly also 538 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: l A. I'm not sure where it's opening from there. 539 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: The website is a little vague, but it is basically 540 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: her her brother researching the story of his sister's death 541 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: and researching what happened and talking about the fact that 542 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: she kind of became this emblem of passer by nonchalance, 543 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: uh for completely unfounded reasons. And then it also talks 544 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: like explores what the gay community was like in this 545 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: part of New York in so I am very interested 546 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: in seeing it if I am able to not totally 547 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: clear exactly where it will be playing. UM, So thank 548 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: you so much Rachel for writing to us about that. 549 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us about this 550 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: or any other podcast, where a history podcast at how 551 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook 552 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: dot com slash miss in History and on Twitter at 553 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: miss in History. 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