WEBVTT - Focus on the D(evelopment) 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.600 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.120 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.640 trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.360 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:24.440 really is? What's up on? Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christen. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.600 Welcome back to add Landia, Episode ten, a full ten, 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.080 full ten. And because we're on episode ten, and because 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.720 we have such a killer guest today, we are actually 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.960 going to do are in the feed with our friend 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.240 Jared Dicker, who is the head of innovation and research 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.080 and development at the Washington Post. Just about everything. He 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.600 wears many hats and coming off a cam. We just 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.480 have so much to talk about. Jared and I spent 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:52.280 quite a bit of time floating around um the French riviera, 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.720 so to speak, kind of chatting about the future of 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.800 the business, and we thought, hey, let's bring him in. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:58.360 Let's bring him in and have a conversation and then 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.520 like also talk about what's the value of on there 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.160 are people big contingent who didn't go to CAN. I 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.480 didn't go to CAN. Lots of agencies. Actually it was 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:09.280 like you were there. I was walking with you and 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.399 we were talking yet about three in the morning and CAN. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.040 But you know, the big question of are these awards 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.240 shows um, should they live continue to live on people 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.000 being participants? What does that look like? Who are the 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.959 participants that should be there? And then I love something 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:28.640 that I think you're going to get into, which is 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.240 how do we get CAN to have a bigger impact 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.920 in the industry, but also how do you start democratizing it? 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:37.959 So so we hear that. Yeah, we'll be right back 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:51.400 with Jared Dicker from the Washington Post. What's up at Landia. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.160 We're back with the one and only Jared Dicker. Jared Dicker, 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.040 who is currently at the Washington Post, a good friend 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.680 of ours. So we were just talking about this. You have, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.400 you know, your standard title, but what do you really 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.480 do at the Washington Post, because it's much more than 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.400 your title says, Yeah, so many many hats, which is 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:14.640 a horrible analogy analogy to say. But the fun part 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.320 of my job at the Washington Post is that I 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.280 found our R and D group read which basically allows 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.960 me to focus on engineering and building new technologies that 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.760 we could then sell commercially in the Space Agency's clients partners. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.440 And we basically treat the Washington Post like a playground 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.200 to see what works consumer and commercial side, um other 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:38.880 than that oversea all business product engineering, operations strategy. And 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.440 you're like the man about town. Really, I like to 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.320 have a good time, that's for sure. Jared and I 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.720 are just back from CAN. I know we missed you. 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.079 I know I was the one that didn't go. There's 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.000 so many people who didn't go this year. It was 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.040 very interesting. Did you guys feel that when you were 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.160 a Can it was definitely lighter this year. I only 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.399 know that because there were no lines at the yachts. Yeah. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.440 I feel like people before they go to and book 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.160 their calendars, show their bosses by their tickets, and then 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.840 as soon as they land they cancel every single meeting. 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.160 So outside of so, it was lighter this year. What 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.520 were if you had like two things to take away 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.280 from Ken, what would you say those two big things 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:15.919 and different things than they have been in the past. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.240 Because I've heard a lot from a lot of folks 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.680 who have said it was actually different this year. Yeah, 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.200 I mean I would say I feel like ken is 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.119 a place where people identify issues but cannot solve them 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.560 or don't have a lot of positioning or power to solve. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.400 Someone said to me that, you know, publishers go out 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.800 there to meet with agencies and a lot of like 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.600 publisher where the clients they're oftentimes because of the ad 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.960 technology companies, And that's totally changed. Yeah, so that's become interesting. 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.240 But what's really interesting is they get the right people. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.680 They're having great conversations. I don't know what comes out 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.440 of it. I think you hear a lot of you mean, 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.600 like all the panels, great conversations, great panels, great you know, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.400 great people conversation talked on the show and Jar and 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:00.920 I were talking about it out there, and I think 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:02.720 this speaks to what you're saying in terms of solving 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.280 is like do we need to turn can into like 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.000 the G eight of media and marketing and like actually 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.960 have people coming with the outcome. Nobody was really, in 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.280 my opinion, pushing the envelope in terms of Holy sh it, 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.040 that was a real provocative conversation and that's going to 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.679 change the way we think about this industry moving forward. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.040 What do you think about Joe Marquis's announcement that they're 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.520 going to start making like six second ads. Yeah. I 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.279 think what's really special about Joe, and he's a friend, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.880 is that he's one of the few ad chiefs at 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.040 this point. He wasn't always an achieve. Now is an achief, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.720 accidental ad chief UM that can make things happen. So 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.280 he often says, you know, your attention is the number 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.960 one commodity, and we all recognize that, but it's very 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.200 hard to convince every single layer of advertising and media 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.080 to get on board with that and oversee something like 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.320 Fox and make those announcements, and also oversee a company 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.719 like True Acts that builds the actual ad products. He 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.680 has power to help instill these things. So it's interesting 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.880 because that's what happened with New York Times. I mean, obviously, no, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.520 Meredith was just on the show, and Um since then 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.240 has been promoted to CEO. And some of the conversations 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.640 that we're having out in Can were around the fact 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.800 that for the first time you're starting to see product 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.720 and marketing sitting in the same department, so to speak, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.479 starting to get tighter. There wasn't like a data conversation 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.640 happening over here. More people were saying like, Okay, now 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.320 do we make this applicable to creative? Did you catch 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.080 that while you were there or yes? So I've tried 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.120 to make my career out of that because everyone always 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.880 hated working on advertising or the commercial side of the business. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.000 But I really believe that this silo mentality of really 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.000 breaking up your organization to focus on consumer and commercial 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.039 and so forth is is old. You know, it really 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.279 doesn't help you move forward where where if you have 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.920 this no silo. Everyone wants to grow audiences. Right for 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.040 the Post, it's about growing audiences for the Times, it's 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.440 about growing audiences subscriptions. Every single person in that organization 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.520 should be working towards that, Like creative and data are 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.560 the two stuff advertising, And everyone's full of shit if 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.480 they say that they've been marrying them together and that 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.320 native advertising does that and so forth, like like, it's 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.240 very bullshit in that sense. So to that point, I agree, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.600 I think I think you really have to convince everyone 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.520 on board, from the newsroom to the engineers to sales like, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.160 this is our mission. This is how we'll get there 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.560 if we all do it. Correctly will all benefit? So 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.280 here's my last question. I can there are a ton 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.680 of agencies and ton of executives talking about how they're 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.880 backing out of award shows, the award shows are not 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.880 shouldn't be the focus anymore, and that they're focusing on 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.800 talent and they're focusing on real creative What do you 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.000 guys think about that? Like, do you think that can 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.960 is worth it anymore? Do you think from an award 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.800 show standpoint, like are they actually finding um and mining 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.159 the best kind of creative and talent and putting it 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.719 up as an industry standard? Well, it's hard. I think 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:57.680 with can UM the categories and the nominees are so 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.240 broad that you have companies like in Post competing with 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:06.080 Google VR for Welcome to the World, right right, But 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.520 but like that's where I think you see, like is 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.080 it worth it or not? Right? And with this sort 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.360 of investment, I think I think there is something about 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.840 can it exists for a reason. Um all of the 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.120 top creative lists and things that come out a week later, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.080 you know, the notoriety and things of that are great. 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.640 I think I think there needs to be some sort 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.800 of focus. Like what I saw is that there's there's 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.200 the media side of CAN, and then there's you know, 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.800 the ad side of CAN. I have two questions in 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.720 the industry. One, what is the value of a can lion? Yeah? 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.000 I want to know how we're equating that in the 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.440 industry because in pitch decks and when you're out obviously 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.440 um going after clients, it's wonderful to say I've won 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.120 a CAN line. But in the world of marketing and 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.720 the fragmentation that exists currently and the idea that creativity 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.400 is pervasive through literally everything, what is the value of 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.800 a CAN line? That is? That is an honest question. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.640 I'd love to solve question number two, or rather a 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.160 statement and you being there, Jared, I mean, feel free 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.000 to weigh. And every year we're constantly asking ourselves as 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.800 an industry are what are the standards? When we come 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.400 to CAN we get to see presumably the best of 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.840 what the industry has to offer as a gold standard 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.760 and work. Yet we're not applying this to what the 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:20.480 standards are? Two different standards to scalable, two scalable standards, right, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.600 So I B is all about scalable standards. Does this 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:25.520 give us an opportunity to do one or two things 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.640 either suggest that this is the way in which those 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.680 standards can be applied, or does it give us an 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.720 opportunity to say, actually, I b this is why this 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.000 guideline is broken. So that I think is very true. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.960 The other thing I'd say is that as we try 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.920 to differentiate ourselves and and as marketers have to make 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.760 tougher decisions on who to work with and narrow that scope, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.760 a can line is kind of like the end of 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.199 the road of your creative process. Like you did this, 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.640 it's launched, it's live, and now it's over. So like, okay, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.280 we could draw inspiration from this, but I can't leverage 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.160 this technology. I can't leverage this idea. It's already been done. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.960 So huge thing. That's an interesting point. Yeah, and like 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:03.520 a big thing, and like a big thing that I 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.520 pushed internally is like don't buy with us, or don't 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.880 buy our tech that has like an expiration date or 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.800 a shelf life, like work with us, because you could 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.560 take this, we could do something and then we could 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.400 evolve it. So I think with award shows to go 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.720 all the way back to like the beginning of the conversation. Um, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:22.280 it's kind of like an end road like here it 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.920 is here was the best of last year, so what's 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.439 next year? And maybe Can's positioning just has to be like, Okay, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.480 this is where we're going, and let's start to like 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.560 acknowledge the companies that are helping us push in that 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.360 sort of way. I love the idea of some sort 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.280 of like and like. So there's a tech conference called 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.760 source com that's out of Portland from the Mozilla teams, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.080 and basically, if you go and present, you have to 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.160 actually bring something that's hands on, and whoever goes and 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.880 attends your thing or session or workshop, um, you actually 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.760 have an angle to build something at the end. So 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.440 maybe cannas some applicable component where people calm and present 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.920 ideas and you kind of hackathon through these things. So 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.720 then you leave and CAN could get excited about something 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.439 like that because they could say, well, this was built 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.640 at CAN, so this is I was just you brought 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.160 me back to the point that I wanted to make, 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.120 is that I feel that CAN actually needs to find 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.280 a way to become democratized. It is so exclusive, it 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.000 is so expensive, um that it is very limited in 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.319 terms of what past you need to have to get 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.840 into the pel a to see the work um, when 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.960 actually that work should be shown off to the world 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.679 so that the you know, media planner who is just 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.200 getting started but might be the most creative kids sitting 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.840 in you know, insert holding company X has the opportunity 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.800 to be inspired by the simplicity of what I saw 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.280 in the pel A this year. And so the conversation 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.360 and we're gonna take it to the Washington Post and 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.160 what you're doing at the Washington Post because you've done 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.400 in the what last two years pretty much Washington Post 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.880 has gotten a ton of notoriety and awards right around. Um, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.720 new advertising technology and new models. How have you balance 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.160 creativity and the tech side at the Washington Post? Yeah, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.600 so um one our founders Jeff Bezos, which I don't 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.280 think we say enough. Well, I think people can we 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.400 stop there? Sorry, so people, And we were just talking 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.559 about this earlier to like people get confused sometimes they're like, oh, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.800 the Washington Post is owned by Amazon. No, the Washington 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.160 Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, right, And there's a 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.920 big difference. They're huge difference. And the inspiration that we 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.640 get through Jeff and his time that he dedicates to 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.640 the Post um is amazing. Because it's very particular. It's 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.319 not how can we work with Amazon, It's not distracted 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.080 with his other holding companies, you know, one of which 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.679 is soon to be Whole Foods, right, so, um, but 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.160 we get actual attention, you know, when it comes to 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.120 what's going to best benefit journalism and how we could 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.480 grow our brand and how we can be noticed in 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.720 this um, you know, very congested marketplace. So we balance 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.320 creativity and tech in in a variety of ways. I 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.959 think you mentioned earlier the operational side of things, getting 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:03.520 engineers in the news room. I mean when I was 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.880 at hof Post, we did that. Our CTO did sit 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.760 next orator in chief. But on the advertising side, we 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.600 did not have engineers on the sales floor, you know, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.280 we did not have engineers within marketing. And here we do. 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.960 And I think that's very crucial when it comes to 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.320 being created from a tech perspective and not just being 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.079 task oriented of saying, hey build this, this didn't work 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.920 and so forth. You know, Um, we pushed this big 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.640 idea and Paul Berry, you know, who were very much 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.320 close with from Rebel Moss huff Post days and an 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:37.000 amazing collaborator, always said, like the journey should always start 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.440 once you press publish, And that's how we bring creativity 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.199 and tech to everything that we do at the Post 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.199 as well, like, don't prepare for something, let it go live, 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:50.400 whether that's content, whether that's advertising, whether it's branded content, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.960 and so forth, have technology and mechanisms that help that 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.280 content fly. Especially with all the data and understanding of 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.679 what we have now, how can we structurally make this 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.640 easy year? And what I think is key, especially when 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.280 it comes to the newsroom is editors and writers and 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.240 journalists should never change their strategy. Right. What they've been 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.800 doing for the past hundred years works from its important 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:14.760 is extremely important that we don't want to change that. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.400 How do we build technologies that allow them to make 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.480 their job easier and also allow their content to fly farther. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.160 I'm gonna go left for a second because I know 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.200 we want to get really deep into the tech and 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.120 and the products that you're creating. But there's an elephant 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:28.800 in the room that I am so curious to get 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.080 your perspective on, and that's and someone who sits in 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.800 the far corner of the Washington Post working on all 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:39.359 of this great tech and development people in the marketplace. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.160 In my opinion. Vast majority still have the perception that 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.080 the Washington Post is a bureau for d C and 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.280 its content is focused on the Beltway. And granted, this 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.120 past election cycle has um done wonders, I know, But 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.800 how is somebody who sits in the innovation arm of 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.679 a company who from the other side of the table 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:05.400 can be perceived as Washingtonian battle with that internally to say, hey, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:06.960 we need to spend this on our head, We need 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.800 to get our tech and innovation at the forefront of 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.600 industry conversations, UM at the right balance with what's happening 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.800 in the newsroom to change perceptions about what it is 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.280 we're doing here. Yeah. So um, I say this often, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.640 but it takes a company to really believe in something 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.600 for it to actually happen. So in the sense of 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.480 the Washington Post. When I was at the Huffton in Post, 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.360 I never looked at the Washington Post as a competitor, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.200 to be completely frank like, in terms of the journalism, 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.560 for sure, I mean, there are many, many, many, many 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.240 politics ahead. But we were a tech company that also 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.880 did media. At the Uffington Post, we were blowing everyone 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.560 away at that time. And I think what happened, and 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.200 of course the Jeff acquisition or the buy of the 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.720 Washington Post allowed them to say, Okay, we don't need 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.800 to be extremely conservative with our risks anymore. We could 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.120 actually all move forward and promoting that and the Post 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.120 and our leadership, and that decision has really allowed us 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.200 to grow. You know, seven cent of our u S 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.280 audiences in the DC area, so like nine is outside 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.760 our largest audiences in California. I was going to say 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.000 everyone reads the Washington Post now, especially post election, right, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.840 like everyone? And then you have all these other news 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.160 organizations that are referring people to the Washington Post, one 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:17.760 of which I love. And we've talked about news and 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:23.000 guts with Dan, right. So I have a question, though 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.400 it pisces me off when I go on to the 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.440 Washington Post dot com and I go on to New 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.239 York Times dot com. I am looking at newspapers digitized. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.680 Why do they look the same. So I think there's 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.960 a long standing conversation about aggregation versus personalization, right, like 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.120 having editors decide what's on the home page and so forth. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.920 Now I'm not an editor, so I don't want to 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.400 speak for it, and um, I only want to manage 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.320 what I could control. Now that being said, we had 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.240 that conversation and I agree, and I think when you 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.880 think about how much data we have on users, Emilio 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.280 Garcia Ruez would actually say, you know what, I agree, 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:04.920 Why does it look the same? I'm putting words in 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.200 his mouth totally. So we so we um. We actually 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.200 did this on the branded content side to test things 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.160 like what's really cool at the post is that because 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.440 we have a commercial tech arm, we can actually test 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.160 these things with our advertisers, who, like you, are willing 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.040 to do new different things we want. We actually right 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.440 and then and and then we're able to test that 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:25.840 see if it works, and then we can actually bring 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.640 it to the court team and say, hey, is this 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.560 interesting for you? Like we launched a product called postcards 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.560 because of that mentality of saying, why should we deliver 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.960 content the same exact way that we delivered it fifty 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.200 years ago, right through print? And if we have all 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:43.960 this data that Laura consumes video and I consume image 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.600 or long form and so forth, why don't we deliver 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.200 that content type to the user directly where they are, 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.840 wherever they are? So can we go into your sandbox 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.760 for a second, because I'm really curious to know. Um, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.400 I have two questions. One, what's the product tech that 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.000 you're most excited about right now? One? And number two, 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.439 do you see what the Red Group is doing as 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.960 a potential way for The Washington Post to diversify revenue? 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.879 Because in this day and age, and one of the 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:12.800 things that I said that was very pervasive and can 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.680 is media companies and agencies are coming together to figure 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.160 out new ways to collaborate that don't necessarily include advice, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:24.120 but still monetizing monetize her ble. Yes, yeah, I mean 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.280 it's actually interesting. I've had conversations with multiple brands lately 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.160 where I realized that they brought me in and don't 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.679 want to be pitched. They just want to learn what 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:36.880 we've done. And you're talking about but like I'm like, wow, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.680 we have a whole new like consultation revenue model and 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.280 it comes outartnerships, right. So so, yes, I mean the 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.560 Red Group was built to um differentiate the Post. When 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.000 we launched it, we announced a NAweek or in that 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.159 age two years ago. When I joined, it was just myself, 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.400 you know. Now now it's an actual team of ten 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.480 engineers and product leads that are building these things, understanding 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.760 what's happening in the marketplace. I think a great basos 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.639 is um that helps. Uh. I want the book the innovation. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.440 I think Joey Joey Marburger has a deck of them. 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.960 But but um, but like one big one is like 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:12.760 what can we do that can't be done elsewhere? Like 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.080 everyone when they focus on innovation is like what are 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.879 we sucky at? And how do we get better at that? 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.480 Where it's like, well, actually, what are we really good at? 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.679 And how do we double down and get better there? Right? 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.600 Like forget about what we're not good at. Will never 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.240 be Facebook, right, We'll never be Twitter, will never be 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.920 like all of these companies. But we are the Post, right, 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.840 and we are a tech company now as well as 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.720 a media company, and how can we get better there? 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.119 So the investment you've seen in the Red group is 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.040 clearly aligned with the revenue that we've seen from that, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.600 and it's twofold. It's like, what is being done that 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.560 could be better? When everyone said the banner is dead, 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.840 I said, like, the banner is not dead, but like 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.520 we can make the banners somewhat better and understand that 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.040 you're advertising with the Post because you want to be 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.520 on the post, and our users are on the post 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.320 because they want to read the post. So let's take 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.359 all the hard work that you're doing and display and 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.199 video and make it more applicable to our consumers. And 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.800 that's through tech. So we'll build technologies that allow you 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.480 to do that. Put no pressure on your side that 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.440 you could go back to the CMO and say, hey, look, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.800 this is our creative that we've done. But we leverage 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.080 this post technology to make it more applicable to users. 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.320 And that doesn't necessarily require a media by to have access. No. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.439 I mean I often say too, is like if you 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.800 want to leverage the technology, we have a SAS model, right, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.280 So like, if you don't want to run on the 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.040 Washington Post, I love you too, But we're here to 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.359 help you build better branding, to leverage better technology. And 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.879 if you prefer to run programmatically or you prefer to 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.520 run on site, that's where I think that the industry 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.160 has to pivot. This is Alex and I talked about 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.760 this all the time, like the ad model and the 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.480 Washington Post dot com revenue stream to me and Alexa 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:49.080 is one avenue now within the post media company that 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.400