1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: really is? What's up on? Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christen. 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to add Landia, Episode ten, a full ten, 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: full ten. And because we're on episode ten, and because 11 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: we have such a killer guest today, we are actually 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: going to do are in the feed with our friend 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: Jared Dicker, who is the head of innovation and research 14 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: and development at the Washington Post. Just about everything. He 15 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: wears many hats and coming off a cam. We just 16 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: have so much to talk about. Jared and I spent 17 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: quite a bit of time floating around um the French riviera, 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: so to speak, kind of chatting about the future of 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: the business, and we thought, hey, let's bring him in. 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Let's bring him in and have a conversation and then 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: like also talk about what's the value of on there 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: are people big contingent who didn't go to CAN. I 23 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: didn't go to CAN. Lots of agencies. Actually it was 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: like you were there. I was walking with you and 25 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: we were talking yet about three in the morning and CAN. 26 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: But you know, the big question of are these awards 27 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: shows um, should they live continue to live on people 28 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: being participants? What does that look like? Who are the 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: participants that should be there? And then I love something 30 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: that I think you're going to get into, which is 31 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: how do we get CAN to have a bigger impact 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: in the industry, but also how do you start democratizing it? 33 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: So so we hear that. Yeah, we'll be right back 34 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: with Jared Dicker from the Washington Post. What's up at Landia. 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: We're back with the one and only Jared Dicker. Jared Dicker, 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: who is currently at the Washington Post, a good friend 37 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: of ours. So we were just talking about this. You have, 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, your standard title, but what do you really 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: do at the Washington Post, because it's much more than 40 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: your title says, Yeah, so many many hats, which is 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: a horrible analogy analogy to say. But the fun part 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: of my job at the Washington Post is that I 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: found our R and D group read which basically allows 44 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: me to focus on engineering and building new technologies that 45 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: we could then sell commercially in the Space Agency's clients partners. 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: And we basically treat the Washington Post like a playground 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: to see what works consumer and commercial side, um other 48 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: than that oversea all business product engineering, operations strategy. And 49 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: you're like the man about town. Really, I like to 50 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: have a good time, that's for sure. Jared and I 51 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: are just back from CAN. I know we missed you. 52 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: I know I was the one that didn't go. There's 53 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: so many people who didn't go this year. It was 54 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: very interesting. Did you guys feel that when you were 55 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: a Can it was definitely lighter this year. I only 56 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 1: know that because there were no lines at the yachts. Yeah. 57 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: I feel like people before they go to and book 58 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: their calendars, show their bosses by their tickets, and then 59 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: as soon as they land they cancel every single meeting. 60 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: So outside of so, it was lighter this year. What 61 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: were if you had like two things to take away 62 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: from Ken, what would you say those two big things 63 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: and different things than they have been in the past. 64 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: Because I've heard a lot from a lot of folks 65 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: who have said it was actually different this year. Yeah, 66 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean I would say I feel like ken is 67 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: a place where people identify issues but cannot solve them 68 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: or don't have a lot of positioning or power to solve. 69 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: Someone said to me that, you know, publishers go out 70 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: there to meet with agencies and a lot of like 71 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: publisher where the clients they're oftentimes because of the ad 72 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: technology companies, And that's totally changed. Yeah, so that's become interesting. 73 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: But what's really interesting is they get the right people. 74 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: They're having great conversations. I don't know what comes out 75 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: of it. I think you hear a lot of you mean, 76 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: like all the panels, great conversations, great panels, great you know, 77 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: great people conversation talked on the show and Jar and 78 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: I were talking about it out there, and I think 79 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: this speaks to what you're saying in terms of solving 80 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: is like do we need to turn can into like 81 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: the G eight of media and marketing and like actually 82 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: have people coming with the outcome. Nobody was really, in 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: my opinion, pushing the envelope in terms of Holy sh it, 84 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: that was a real provocative conversation and that's going to 85 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 1: change the way we think about this industry moving forward. 86 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: What do you think about Joe Marquis's announcement that they're 87 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: going to start making like six second ads. Yeah. I 88 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: think what's really special about Joe, and he's a friend, 89 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: is that he's one of the few ad chiefs at 90 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: this point. He wasn't always an achieve. Now is an achief, 91 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: accidental ad chief UM that can make things happen. So 92 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: he often says, you know, your attention is the number 93 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: one commodity, and we all recognize that, but it's very 94 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: hard to convince every single layer of advertising and media 95 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: to get on board with that and oversee something like 96 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: Fox and make those announcements, and also oversee a company 97 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: like True Acts that builds the actual ad products. He 98 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: has power to help instill these things. So it's interesting 99 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: because that's what happened with New York Times. I mean, obviously, no, 100 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: Meredith was just on the show, and Um since then 101 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: has been promoted to CEO. And some of the conversations 102 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: that we're having out in Can were around the fact 103 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: that for the first time you're starting to see product 104 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: and marketing sitting in the same department, so to speak, 105 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: starting to get tighter. There wasn't like a data conversation 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: happening over here. More people were saying like, Okay, now 107 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: do we make this applicable to creative? Did you catch 108 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: that while you were there or yes? So I've tried 109 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: to make my career out of that because everyone always 110 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: hated working on advertising or the commercial side of the business. 111 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: But I really believe that this silo mentality of really 112 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: breaking up your organization to focus on consumer and commercial 113 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: and so forth is is old. You know, it really 114 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: doesn't help you move forward where where if you have 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: this no silo. Everyone wants to grow audiences. Right for 116 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: the Post, it's about growing audiences for the Times, it's 117 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: about growing audiences subscriptions. Every single person in that organization 118 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: should be working towards that, Like creative and data are 119 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: the two stuff advertising, And everyone's full of shit if 120 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: they say that they've been marrying them together and that 121 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: native advertising does that and so forth, like like, it's 122 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: very bullshit in that sense. So to that point, I agree, 123 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: I think I think you really have to convince everyone 124 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: on board, from the newsroom to the engineers to sales like, 125 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: this is our mission. This is how we'll get there 126 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: if we all do it. Correctly will all benefit? So 127 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: here's my last question. I can there are a ton 128 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: of agencies and ton of executives talking about how they're 129 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: backing out of award shows, the award shows are not 130 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the focus anymore, and that they're focusing on 131 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: talent and they're focusing on real creative What do you 132 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: guys think about that? Like, do you think that can 133 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: is worth it anymore? Do you think from an award 134 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: show standpoint, like are they actually finding um and mining 135 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: the best kind of creative and talent and putting it 136 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: up as an industry standard? Well, it's hard. I think 137 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: with can UM the categories and the nominees are so 138 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: broad that you have companies like in Post competing with 139 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Google VR for Welcome to the World, right right, But 140 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: but like that's where I think you see, like is 141 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: it worth it or not? Right? And with this sort 142 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: of investment, I think I think there is something about 143 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: can it exists for a reason. Um all of the 144 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: top creative lists and things that come out a week later, 145 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, the notoriety and things of that are great. 146 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: I think I think there needs to be some sort 147 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: of focus. Like what I saw is that there's there's 148 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: the media side of CAN, and then there's you know, 149 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: the ad side of CAN. I have two questions in 150 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: the industry. One, what is the value of a can lion? Yeah? 151 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: I want to know how we're equating that in the 152 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: industry because in pitch decks and when you're out obviously 153 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: um going after clients, it's wonderful to say I've won 154 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: a CAN line. But in the world of marketing and 155 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: the fragmentation that exists currently and the idea that creativity 156 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: is pervasive through literally everything, what is the value of 157 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: a CAN line? That is? That is an honest question. 158 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: I'd love to solve question number two, or rather a 159 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: statement and you being there, Jared, I mean, feel free 160 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: to weigh. And every year we're constantly asking ourselves as 161 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: an industry are what are the standards? When we come 162 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: to CAN we get to see presumably the best of 163 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: what the industry has to offer as a gold standard 164 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: and work. Yet we're not applying this to what the 165 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: standards are? Two different standards to scalable, two scalable standards, right, 166 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: So I B is all about scalable standards. Does this 167 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: give us an opportunity to do one or two things 168 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: either suggest that this is the way in which those 169 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: standards can be applied, or does it give us an 170 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: opportunity to say, actually, I b this is why this 171 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: guideline is broken. So that I think is very true. 172 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: The other thing I'd say is that as we try 173 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: to differentiate ourselves and and as marketers have to make 174 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: tougher decisions on who to work with and narrow that scope, 175 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: a can line is kind of like the end of 176 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: the road of your creative process. Like you did this, 177 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: it's launched, it's live, and now it's over. So like, okay, 178 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: we could draw inspiration from this, but I can't leverage 179 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: this technology. I can't leverage this idea. It's already been done. 180 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: So huge thing. That's an interesting point. Yeah, and like 181 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: a big thing, and like a big thing that I 182 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: pushed internally is like don't buy with us, or don't 183 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: buy our tech that has like an expiration date or 184 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: a shelf life, like work with us, because you could 185 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: take this, we could do something and then we could 186 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: evolve it. So I think with award shows to go 187 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: all the way back to like the beginning of the conversation. Um, 188 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of like an end road like here it 189 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: is here was the best of last year, so what's 190 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: next year? And maybe Can's positioning just has to be like, Okay, 191 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: this is where we're going, and let's start to like 192 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: acknowledge the companies that are helping us push in that 193 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: sort of way. I love the idea of some sort 194 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: of like and like. So there's a tech conference called 195 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: source com that's out of Portland from the Mozilla teams, 196 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: and basically, if you go and present, you have to 197 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: actually bring something that's hands on, and whoever goes and 198 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: attends your thing or session or workshop, um, you actually 199 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: have an angle to build something at the end. So 200 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: maybe cannas some applicable component where people calm and present 201 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: ideas and you kind of hackathon through these things. So 202 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: then you leave and CAN could get excited about something 203 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: like that because they could say, well, this was built 204 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: at CAN, so this is I was just you brought 205 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: me back to the point that I wanted to make, 206 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: is that I feel that CAN actually needs to find 207 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: a way to become democratized. It is so exclusive, it 208 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: is so expensive, um that it is very limited in 209 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: terms of what past you need to have to get 210 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: into the pel a to see the work um, when 211 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: actually that work should be shown off to the world 212 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: so that the you know, media planner who is just 213 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: getting started but might be the most creative kids sitting 214 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: in you know, insert holding company X has the opportunity 215 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: to be inspired by the simplicity of what I saw 216 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: in the pel A this year. And so the conversation 217 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: and we're gonna take it to the Washington Post and 218 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: what you're doing at the Washington Post because you've done 219 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: in the what last two years pretty much Washington Post 220 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: has gotten a ton of notoriety and awards right around. Um, 221 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: new advertising technology and new models. How have you balance 222 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: creativity and the tech side at the Washington Post? Yeah, 223 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: so um one our founders Jeff Bezos, which I don't 224 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: think we say enough. Well, I think people can we 225 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: stop there? Sorry, so people, And we were just talking 226 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: about this earlier to like people get confused sometimes they're like, oh, 227 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: the Washington Post is owned by Amazon. No, the Washington 228 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, right, And there's a 229 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: big difference. They're huge difference. And the inspiration that we 230 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: get through Jeff and his time that he dedicates to 231 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: the Post um is amazing. Because it's very particular. It's 232 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: not how can we work with Amazon, It's not distracted 233 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: with his other holding companies, you know, one of which 234 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: is soon to be Whole Foods, right, so, um, but 235 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: we get actual attention, you know, when it comes to 236 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: what's going to best benefit journalism and how we could 237 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: grow our brand and how we can be noticed in 238 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: this um, you know, very congested marketplace. So we balance 239 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: creativity and tech in in a variety of ways. I 240 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: think you mentioned earlier the operational side of things, getting 241 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: engineers in the news room. I mean when I was 242 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: at hof Post, we did that. Our CTO did sit 243 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: next orator in chief. But on the advertising side, we 244 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: did not have engineers on the sales floor, you know, 245 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: we did not have engineers within marketing. And here we do. 246 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: And I think that's very crucial when it comes to 247 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: being created from a tech perspective and not just being 248 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: task oriented of saying, hey build this, this didn't work 249 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: and so forth. You know, Um, we pushed this big 250 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: idea and Paul Berry, you know, who were very much 251 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: close with from Rebel Moss huff Post days and an 252 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: amazing collaborator, always said, like the journey should always start 253 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: once you press publish, And that's how we bring creativity 254 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: and tech to everything that we do at the Post 255 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: as well, like, don't prepare for something, let it go live, 256 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: whether that's content, whether that's advertising, whether it's branded content, 257 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: and so forth, have technology and mechanisms that help that 258 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: content fly. Especially with all the data and understanding of 259 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: what we have now, how can we structurally make this 260 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: easy year? And what I think is key, especially when 261 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: it comes to the newsroom is editors and writers and 262 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: journalists should never change their strategy. Right. What they've been 263 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: doing for the past hundred years works from its important 264 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: is extremely important that we don't want to change that. 265 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: How do we build technologies that allow them to make 266 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: their job easier and also allow their content to fly farther. 267 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go left for a second because I know 268 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: we want to get really deep into the tech and 269 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: and the products that you're creating. But there's an elephant 270 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: in the room that I am so curious to get 271 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: your perspective on, and that's and someone who sits in 272 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: the far corner of the Washington Post working on all 273 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,359 Speaker 1: of this great tech and development people in the marketplace. 274 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: In my opinion. Vast majority still have the perception that 275 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: the Washington Post is a bureau for d C and 276 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: its content is focused on the Beltway. And granted, this 277 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: past election cycle has um done wonders, I know, But 278 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: how is somebody who sits in the innovation arm of 279 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: a company who from the other side of the table 280 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: can be perceived as Washingtonian battle with that internally to say, hey, 281 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: we need to spend this on our head, We need 282 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: to get our tech and innovation at the forefront of 283 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: industry conversations, UM at the right balance with what's happening 284 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: in the newsroom to change perceptions about what it is 285 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: we're doing here. Yeah. So um, I say this often, 286 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: but it takes a company to really believe in something 287 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: for it to actually happen. So in the sense of 288 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the Washington Post. When I was at the Huffton in Post, 289 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: I never looked at the Washington Post as a competitor, 290 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: to be completely frank like, in terms of the journalism, 291 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: for sure, I mean, there are many, many, many, many 292 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: politics ahead. But we were a tech company that also 293 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: did media. At the Uffington Post, we were blowing everyone 294 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: away at that time. And I think what happened, and 295 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: of course the Jeff acquisition or the buy of the 296 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: Washington Post allowed them to say, Okay, we don't need 297 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: to be extremely conservative with our risks anymore. We could 298 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: actually all move forward and promoting that and the Post 299 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: and our leadership, and that decision has really allowed us 300 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: to grow. You know, seven cent of our u S 301 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: audiences in the DC area, so like nine is outside 302 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: our largest audiences in California. I was going to say 303 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: everyone reads the Washington Post now, especially post election, right, 304 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: like everyone? And then you have all these other news 305 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: organizations that are referring people to the Washington Post, one 306 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: of which I love. And we've talked about news and 307 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: guts with Dan, right. So I have a question, though 308 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: it pisces me off when I go on to the 309 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: Washington Post dot com and I go on to New 310 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,239 Speaker 1: York Times dot com. I am looking at newspapers digitized. 311 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: Why do they look the same. So I think there's 312 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: a long standing conversation about aggregation versus personalization, right, like 313 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: having editors decide what's on the home page and so forth. 314 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: Now I'm not an editor, so I don't want to 315 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: speak for it, and um, I only want to manage 316 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: what I could control. Now that being said, we had 317 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: that conversation and I agree, and I think when you 318 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: think about how much data we have on users, Emilio 319 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: Garcia Ruez would actually say, you know what, I agree, 320 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: Why does it look the same? I'm putting words in 321 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: his mouth totally. So we so we um. We actually 322 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: did this on the branded content side to test things 323 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: like what's really cool at the post is that because 324 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: we have a commercial tech arm, we can actually test 325 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: these things with our advertisers, who, like you, are willing 326 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: to do new different things we want. We actually right 327 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: and then and and then we're able to test that 328 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: see if it works, and then we can actually bring 329 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: it to the court team and say, hey, is this 330 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: interesting for you? Like we launched a product called postcards 331 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: because of that mentality of saying, why should we deliver 332 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: content the same exact way that we delivered it fifty 333 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: years ago, right through print? And if we have all 334 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: this data that Laura consumes video and I consume image 335 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: or long form and so forth, why don't we deliver 336 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: that content type to the user directly where they are, 337 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: wherever they are? So can we go into your sandbox 338 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: for a second, because I'm really curious to know. Um, 339 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: I have two questions. One, what's the product tech that 340 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: you're most excited about right now? One? And number two, 341 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: do you see what the Red Group is doing as 342 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: a potential way for The Washington Post to diversify revenue? 343 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: Because in this day and age, and one of the 344 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: things that I said that was very pervasive and can 345 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: is media companies and agencies are coming together to figure 346 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: out new ways to collaborate that don't necessarily include advice, 347 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: but still monetizing monetize her ble. Yes, yeah, I mean 348 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: it's actually interesting. I've had conversations with multiple brands lately 349 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: where I realized that they brought me in and don't 350 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: want to be pitched. They just want to learn what 351 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: we've done. And you're talking about but like I'm like, wow, 352 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: we have a whole new like consultation revenue model and 353 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: it comes outartnerships, right. So so, yes, I mean the 354 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: Red Group was built to um differentiate the Post. When 355 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: we launched it, we announced a NAweek or in that 356 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: age two years ago. When I joined, it was just myself, 357 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: you know. Now now it's an actual team of ten 358 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: engineers and product leads that are building these things, understanding 359 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: what's happening in the marketplace. I think a great basos 360 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: is um that helps. Uh. I want the book the innovation. 361 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: I think Joey Joey Marburger has a deck of them. 362 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: But but um, but like one big one is like 363 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: what can we do that can't be done elsewhere? Like 364 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: everyone when they focus on innovation is like what are 365 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: we sucky at? And how do we get better at that? 366 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: Where it's like, well, actually, what are we really good at? 367 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: And how do we double down and get better there? Right? 368 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: Like forget about what we're not good at. Will never 369 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: be Facebook, right, We'll never be Twitter, will never be 370 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: like all of these companies. But we are the Post, right, 371 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: and we are a tech company now as well as 372 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: a media company, and how can we get better there? 373 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: So the investment you've seen in the Red group is 374 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: clearly aligned with the revenue that we've seen from that, 375 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: and it's twofold. It's like, what is being done that 376 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: could be better? When everyone said the banner is dead, 377 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: I said, like, the banner is not dead, but like 378 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: we can make the banners somewhat better and understand that 379 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: you're advertising with the Post because you want to be 380 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: on the post, and our users are on the post 381 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: because they want to read the post. So let's take 382 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: all the hard work that you're doing and display and 383 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: video and make it more applicable to our consumers. And 384 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: that's through tech. So we'll build technologies that allow you 385 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: to do that. Put no pressure on your side that 386 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: you could go back to the CMO and say, hey, look, 387 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: this is our creative that we've done. But we leverage 388 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: this post technology to make it more applicable to users. 389 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: And that doesn't necessarily require a media by to have access. No. 390 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: I mean I often say too, is like if you 391 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: want to leverage the technology, we have a SAS model, right, 392 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: So like, if you don't want to run on the 393 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: Washington Post, I love you too, But we're here to 394 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: help you build better branding, to leverage better technology. And 395 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: if you prefer to run programmatically or you prefer to 396 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: run on site, that's where I think that the industry 397 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: has to pivot. This is Alex and I talked about 398 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: this all the time, like the ad model and the 399 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: Washington Post dot com revenue stream to me and Alexa 400 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: is one avenue now within the post media company that 401 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: presents opportunity for brands. Well, you just talked about access 402 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: to your engineers, your sas model, all of these sorts 403 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: of things actually for brands who want to develop content 404 00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: on their own O and O as you just said, 405 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: brands who are looking for ways to diversify with their 406 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: own clients and business partners, these are things that they 407 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: need access to because presumably maybe they don't want to 408 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: develop an in house engineering team to do that. So 409 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: I mean you're selling in white labeling, yeah, right, And 410 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: the argument, lord, your point of view is like if 411 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: everyone's about platforms, right, and if our consumers are going 412 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: to consume our content on Snapchat, uh, Facebook, Google, whatever 413 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: the next big thing is, then like we're not selling 414 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: on our audience in five to ten years, So what's 415 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: going to differentiate us? Right? And and if you could 416 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: buy washpost content through Facebook cheaper, right or through Google 417 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: and so forth cheaper than like, what is going to 418 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: be our value play? And so us it's we're gonna 419 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: build technologies. We're not gonna leverage the same third party 420 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: technology that all our partners are leveraging but calling different names, 421 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: like we're actually gonna build some proprietary ship that's never 422 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: been done before and then go out to market and 423 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: be a game changer. I think we should go a 424 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: little deeper here because for folks listening, I'm not sure 425 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: it totally comes through. What does this mean. It means 426 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: that The Washington Post starts becoming like an agnostic tech 427 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: platform that you could sell. Yeah, period, right, and a 428 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: lot of and a lot of um. A lot of 429 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: critics will say, well, that will distract from the core mission, 430 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: like like we are one a journalism media company, we 431 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: always will be the benefit of what we've done again structurally, 432 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: which is like the key topic here is like operations 433 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: and structure, is that we built separate teams, so are 434 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: publishing you know, under Shylash Prakash our CTO is a 435 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: complete different team, right that focuses on building technologies that 436 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: we white label that we are currently white labeling to 437 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: trunk to Globe and mail to info by and the 438 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: Red Group. Those technologies go into that as well, so 439 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: that they could be set up in white labels. But 440 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: that does not distract our core mission. So I think 441 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: it probably helps your core mission, right because you're also 442 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: using those as like well, when you're using those as 443 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: like test Labs. I think it's interesting, right because if 444 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: you can lay to Alex what Alex is saying your 445 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: use cases in all of these different ways, when you 446 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: can just keep calm to me and say that you know, actually, 447 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: the same technology that's powering your experience on the Washington 448 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: Post is also powering what happens on the daily Email, 449 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: that's immediate validation to me as a buyer to say, hey, 450 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: not only can I solve for my media amplification needs here, 451 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: but if I'm a company that needs to create a 452 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: quick ad tech product for something has nothing to do 453 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: with the Washington Post, who am I coming to a 454 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: third party or somebody who's powering an entire mods room 455 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: with it? And I wonder also, then if and this 456 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: is you're going to be like roll eye roll when 457 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: I say this, but a w S, Amazon right Web 458 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: Services has become the platform right for cloud for pretty 459 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: much everyone, pretty much everyone. I don't see modern day railroads, 460 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: So why couldn't the Post be that? From a publishing standpoint, 461 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: and I mean publishing for brands, publishing for publishers, right, 462 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it becomes something that is much 463 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: much bigger. I think the strength of what we're doing 464 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: at the Post that and like saying how I've done 465 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: this in the past, and what we're doing here is 466 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: that the power of the post is key. You can 467 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: just say that that's the vision. No comment, um, but 468 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: that's um. That's what's very interesting. That's what makes me 469 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: most excited right about being here is like, um, the 470 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: fact that the power of the Post in selling our 471 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: technologies is such a secret sauce when it comes to 472 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: our differentiator in the marketplace. And I work on attack. 473 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: I hate when people are like he leads attack and 474 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: like makes me want to throw up in my mouth 475 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: because because the word, the word is like so dirty now, right, 476 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: it's like fraud, viewability blocking. It's like I don't want 477 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: to be anywhere near that, right, Like I like to 478 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: be like out in the st right Martex. But I 479 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: think a lot of that is because, like those things 480 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: have gotten so bad because publishers who care about users 481 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: and consumers never invested in building those things. So it's 482 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: always been these outside technologies coming in and solving our 483 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: problems and they have no idea what the problem my 484 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: got and sticking the straw in near milkshake and and 485 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: like taking money, and we realize, wait, if we just 486 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: look like all of these companies were built in a 487 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: garage by two people, Like is that all we need 488 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: to people? Right, right, but to like build these technologies, 489 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, we're not just saving 490 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: money on third parties, but we're actually different in the marketplace. 491 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: So yes, I mean that's the vision. We're actually doing it. 492 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: That's my vision on the commercial side. But but what 493 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: I think is what I think is the coolest is 494 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: that it's no bullshit, right, Like everyone talks about this. 495 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: We have post polst re engage, flex play, zeus in context. 496 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: That's it to me though, when you start talking about 497 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: I know we have to name things because they become identifiers. 498 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: But the minute we start doing this, because everyone though 499 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: has a version of a name, right, And so then 500 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: you get in the marketplace as a as a media 501 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: marketing person, you're like, well, what's different from the Washington 502 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: Post Zeus and voxes blah, right, because bank Off talks 503 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: about his what is it? Chorus? Chorus, chorus and concert 504 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: what like we're going from the gods. But what's interesting? 505 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: But I think an alex and I always say this, 506 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: it's like lead with the idea that you are a 507 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: tech focused media company that is developing and building proprietary 508 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: technology where the others, as we all know, And this 509 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: is where I think the Washington Post stands to go 510 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: after it aggressively. Are wit labeling and outsourcing that And 511 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: like I'm back to your earlier point talking about that 512 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: conference out in Oregon, I am a believe it when 513 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: I see it, when I see that you have the 514 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: ability to go there, when I actually see that I could. 515 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: And one thing that I love about you specifically is 516 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: that you've never been a tech person. So when Lauren 517 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: I went to years ago to build out a new 518 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: media product, You're like, this is totally different. This is 519 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: totally new. You are so creative that you're able to 520 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: take the technology and actually flip at ninety degrees to 521 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: create something that's totally different. We were two girls and 522 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: a guy in a garage on that part. But what's interesting, 523 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: I think, would you hit on it and forget all 524 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: the other jargon that I just said earlier. But like 525 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: the idea of home grown proprietary tech, and there are 526 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: very few I can aim on one hand who can 527 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: actually go out in the marketplace right now leading media 528 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: companies and say we've developed everything from scratch, no totally, 529 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: and um, look, it's very risky for media companies to 530 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: do that because again, that distraction factor is key. But 531 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: we made that choice. That's what attracted me to come here. 532 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: I mean to be honest, like, I like building technologies. 533 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: I like being creative with those technologies. So as much 534 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: as I love everything that's happening at the post, the 535 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: investment in that was very real to your point, like 536 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: the fact that we actually build products and could show 537 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: them and they're tangible and other publishers are coming to 538 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,239 Speaker 1: you to buy them and they're coming up by them, 539 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: and like what I hate about R and D And 540 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Bezos said this very early on when we presented the 541 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: Red Team to him is like focus on the D right, 542 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Like develop those products like right, Like so many people 543 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: in R and D forcused on the research, like oh, 544 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: here's what's happening, and and the web is fast, but 545 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: we're slow, so we need to be faster. And then 546 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: it's like three years later. I like that focus on 547 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: the day definitely the name of this episode. How do we? 548 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: How do we? It's like straight off. I also like 549 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: put a straw in your milkshake, So you didn't answer 550 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: my other question, what is the martek our marketing tech 551 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: that you were most excited about right now? So a 552 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: lot of the marketing tech that we're building. That's so 553 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: again I kind of got into it earlier, like how 554 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: do we make everyone's life easier, like sympathizing with the 555 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: client agency relationship, but also like what's new ship that's 556 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: never been done before? So like while Zeus while the 557 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: name and Mario, I want to name it Thorpe, but 558 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: it made no I'm Greek, I have no problem with 559 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: so like Zeus was faster, but like what I love 560 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: about Zeus is like when we came out and said 561 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: we were the fastest mobile website, everyone said, well, advertising 562 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: technology is going to slow it down. And I even 563 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: had conversations with Google um and like it wasn't anything 564 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: on their end that was an issue, but they could 565 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: and take responsibility for how other third party integrations worked 566 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: and so no one had to solved. So basically the 567 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: whole idea was like, Okay, your content could be fast, 568 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: but ads are going to be slow, until we came 569 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: in and said, let's blow this ship up right and 570 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: let's pretend that we could like redo how everything works 571 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: while not getting rid of technologies but keeping existing technologies 572 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: and can it be faster? And three weeks of work 573 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: allowed us to be fast. So that gets cool when 574 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: you start talking about on demand content, right, and some 575 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: of the things you guys are doing in the audio 576 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: space and you're doing it separately, let's just be clear 577 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: than Amazon and the Alexa that right, but talk talk 578 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: about um like audio articles and things like that that 579 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: you're doing. Yeah, So again going back to that educational 580 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: verse operational approach. Uh, we just leverage Polly on some 581 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: of our articles we're doing testing right now, which is 582 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: an Amazon got it. So Amazon has a technology called 583 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: Polly which basically could take content, read it, and then 584 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: give you audio of those articles. So so what we 585 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: realized the post again is like people are everywhere, to 586 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: your point, they consume content differently. Some people like video, 587 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: people are obsessed with audio. You're on the subway, you 588 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: want to download a podcast. You know, we're on a 589 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: podcast right now, right, So like there's all these different mediums. 590 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: So so we're actually leveraging audio technology on our site 591 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: for our articles in the test basically meaning some articles 592 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: when you go to them, you could click to play 593 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: and it'll read the article to you. So think about 594 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: you're in the shower, I mean, like barely have time 595 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: in the morning, right, you're walking dogs. I was thinking 596 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: about it trying to read the Obama Russia article that 597 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: came out like free days ago. That was so killer, 598 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: but it's so long, and I was had like a 599 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: million other things to do, and I'm literally running out 600 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: of my house finish. I'm like, I'm running out of 601 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: my house and I'm thinking, all i want to say 602 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: is Washington Post read it to me. Why can't I 603 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: do that? Yeah? So Polly is that? So Polly is 604 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: the top I don't want to go to Washington most 605 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: dot com. I just want to be able to say, 606 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: Washington Post read it to me on your phone. Yea, 607 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: we have to call Apple, but like probably, but yes, 608 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: I mean those are the investments right that we're looking 609 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: to do. Like, no, to your point earlier, the way 610 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: that content is delivered to you is very similar to 611 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: the way it was delivered to you fifty years I mean, apps, 612 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: can I just go back? Sorry? Apple News should be 613 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: all over that, and they should be a feature that 614 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: they offer publishers, why wouldn't they do that now? Right? 615 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: A lot of that so like to go really underneath 616 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: the covers, Like it's not easy for platforms broker these 617 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: relationships with the publishers, Like the post is the easiest, 618 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: I would argue, because we love taking risks and we 619 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: love testing, like the idea is like we'll test anything, 620 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: like of course if it's going to damage our reputation 621 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: or our company. We would never be like me, you'll 622 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: test anything that you have like a clear value prop 623 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 1: for right, You're like, okay, this could be valuable, right, 624 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: But so many publishers are like again going back to 625 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: that operational thing, it's like, well, how much money is 626 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: it gonna make me tomorrow? And is this worth it? 627 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: And should we take the time. So you think about 628 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: Apple News when they first came out, Um, they were saying, hey, 629 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: look your sales team could sell the yea and like 630 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: do all these things. But it's like, so now I 631 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: have to teach my sales team something new. The ad 632 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: sizes at that point we're different. It's too confusing, and 633 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: then publishers give up. So I think for Apple a 634 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: lot of it is not just hey, let's build audio 635 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: technology to read articles. It's how do we convince these 636 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: publishers that it's worth their time to ingest it and 637 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: that they're going to actually see value in dollars? No 638 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: bineriner to me, Well, it sounds like a brand could 639 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: put this together and propose it now, So that's how 640 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do it so like so like my 641 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: whole bread and butter is that it's like, I rather 642 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: not wait for all of these rules and how a 643 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: hundred people at the Washington Post want to broker relationship. 644 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: When we do it through the ad side, it's like, Okay, 645 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: there's dollars, we could do this. It could live anywhere, 646 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: here's the resources, and let's build it. So like for me, 647 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: and it's not bullshit, it's like a lot of the 648 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: innovation I firmly believe that happens in media happens because 649 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: of relationships with brands. And I just want to go 650 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: back to that flood. Can't rewind what replay that A 651 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: lot of the innovation I firmly believe that happens in 652 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: media happens because of relationships with brands, because that is 653 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: so true, and no one ever says that, yes, I mean, 654 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: we'll dropped to Mike, So I have one quick question. 655 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: Who is a brand that you are dying to work 656 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: with and you haven't worked with yet that I'm dying 657 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: to work with and haven't worked with it. Oh man, 658 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: that's tough. Um, take your time, all right. I love, No, 659 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: it's fine, I love. I feel like entertainment brands are 660 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: so hard to work with when it comes to like 661 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: diving deep in being able to collaborate because everything needs 662 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: to be done in five days. So like I remember 663 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: at HuffPo, we we used to do branded content early, 664 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: like in two thousand ten um, which by the way, 665 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: we created brand of content. Let's make sure we know 666 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: you want to put that, you want to put that 667 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: in there, but anyway, on the record, on the record, 668 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: all of that branded content, right was like supplied content 669 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: because they had to create it so quickly. And I 670 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: think the Sony's right, and those brands, like, while we 671 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: work with them, it's never like fully immersive because we 672 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: don't have the time right given to us because the 673 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: movie is launching and they need to get it out 674 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: there and they have the assets to do so. So 675 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: for me, what I think would be really fun is 676 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: like in the entertainment category, especially when it comes to 677 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: publishers in the tech that we're building and what we 678 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: could really see there that would be an exciting one 679 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: for us. Let's bring let's bring him into our standbox 680 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: and all new killed by hill by d I. Y, 681 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: you've done this before? Yeah, I forgot. What would you kill? Well, 682 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: don't say it again. What would you kill? What would 683 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: you buy? And what would you do yourself? Oh? Yes, 684 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: and I remember this, I remember anything. So, like, ideally 685 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: I would kill all reliance on outside technology. I mean, 686 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: we've made a key investment in building these things at 687 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: Rebel Mouse everywhere else. I'm like, I love my friends 688 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: that work at those companies, but they know that I'm 689 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: the hardest person to work with when it comes to 690 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: that because if they come in along like they come 691 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: in and present to me, it's like they better be 692 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: careful because if it looks too good, I'm gonna copy it, right, 693 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: So like so like that, so you want to make 694 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: everyone a technologist? Yes, okay, check all right? What I 695 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: would buy is Gawker. Oh yes, we talked about that 696 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: last right and and like I still believe it, And 697 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: I watched Nobody Speaks on Netflix have you watched. It's 698 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: amazing and it just really shows you, like that fine 699 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: line and what Gawker was able to do and how 700 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: they were literally like undercut and attacked and and what 701 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: basically happened. But the value of that brand, I mean 702 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: even for me as a New Yorker when Gawker was 703 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: like the New York to like becoming you know, this 704 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: massive skilled operation. To also how they I mean they 705 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: were the first to e commerce, right, it was like 706 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: GisMo and inventing a tremendous tech stack in their last 707 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: tremendous a few weeks. Yeah, I mean they're still doing Kinja. 708 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: I mean Kinja is their tech stack and it's amazing. 709 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: So like I would one buy them, Um, so you'd 710 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: buy you buy Gawker, right, I buy Gawker and then 711 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: do it yourself. Every kind of like that was kind 712 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: of your dear first one instead of kill is kind 713 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: of your d I Y. I think everything so like 714 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: something that's interesting for d I Y. I think you 715 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: see brands publishers taking different approaches where they're like buying 716 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: things to help be relevant in the space. And I 717 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: think that's key. I mean, I think the New York 718 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: Times buying wire Cutter was genius because it's very hard 719 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: for The New York Times to build their own e 720 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: commerce value when that's not critical to their mission. But 721 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: they just bought one of the bigger ones. So like, 722 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: for someone who does everything d I Y, I'd say 723 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: tread carefully with D I Y because I think what 724 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: you often find is that with D I Y, whether 725 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: like we could build tech because we had the investment, 726 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't encourage every publisher to do it, while I 727 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: think it's crucial for them to survive to do it, 728 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: to differentiate themselves and may kill them in the process. Right, 729 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: So like presumably by foods, yeah, I mean those that 730 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: was and the stock one up that never happens. So 731 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 1: like so like, I mean everything Bezos does is absolutely 732 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: um amazing. He hits gold right now. Yeah, So I'll 733 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: leave you with that. So if people want to develop 734 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: with you, where can they find you? They can find 735 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: me a Jared dot Dicker outwatch Bow. They can find 736 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: me on LinkedIn, they can find me on Twitter, Jared Dicker, 737 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: Jared Dicker, I'm Jared Dicker across the board. If they 738 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: want to see my twins. I was just gonna say 739 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: the ticker dudes, and they want to see my twins 740 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: and my dogs. They could follow Jared Dicker on Instagram 741 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: Dick dud dudes, congratulations on. Thank you so much. They rock, 742 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: Are you rock? And thank you so much for coming by. 743 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: We always love when you're here. It's always the work, 744 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: flash of ideas and excitement and we appreciate everything that 745 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,959 Speaker 1: you do to make us better. So thank you, thank you, 746 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: Thanks Jared Dicker, everyone special thanks to Cameron Drew's our producer, 747 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: Andy Bowers, Matt Sirk. This is our episode ten, so 748 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: thanks for being big listeners, big fans talking to us 749 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter, face Book, Instagram. At Atlantia Podcast, keep doing it, 750 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: great emails, great reviews. Really appreciate everyone who's listening and 751 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: giving us a lot of feedback. We'll see out there. 752 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks within all New Atlandia 753 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: m H Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own