Speaker 1: Welcome to had of money.
Speaker 2: I'm Joel, I'm Matt.
Speaker 3: Today we're talking accidental landlords, debilitating debt, and the work
Speaker 3: from home premium.
Speaker 2: Happy beautiful Friday, everyonek it's beautiful at least where we
Speaker 2: are actual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: You know what else was beautiful is the run that
Speaker 2: I got to go on. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: The mustache. Oh thank you, it's coming in nice.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the mustache is doing it for me.
Speaker 2: I take that back. I love your mustache, I think there.
Speaker 2: How's the family taking to it? Yeah, your family is
Speaker 2: so much more accepting of your mustache than my family was.
Speaker 2: Even your daughter of my mustache.
Speaker 3: The other day, she hopped in the car and she said,
Speaker 3: I like your mustache, not my dad's.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, yours is a bit thicker.
Speaker 2: It's a bit thicker and bushier than mine. Facial hair
Speaker 2: has always been my nemesis, so that's rare. No, it's
Speaker 2: I think it's legit. Man. You kind of got like
Speaker 2: the what's the uh blonde?
Speaker 1: Bert Reynolds is what I'm coming for? The whitet arp.
Speaker 2: From is that tombstone?
Speaker 1: I don't think. Let's be honest and you're just buttering
Speaker 1: me up.
Speaker 2: Oh it is good. No, I was gonna say the
Speaker 2: beautiful morning that we both got to enjoy because we
Speaker 2: both unplanned went on a run this morning and literally
Speaker 2: you were running out onto the street that I was
Speaker 2: on at the same time section and we just kind
Speaker 2: of like linked up, high fived and immediately started talking
Speaker 2: about money on our on our un No, you would
Speaker 2: have been sorely disappointed if that's what you're expecting, just
Speaker 2: random catchup friend stuff. We did hold hands for a
Speaker 2: second because we thought it was so funny.
Speaker 3: And that's what people expect from us at this point,
Speaker 3: right tied at the hip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty funny. But I know this is our
Speaker 2: Friday flight. The most pertinent headlines we think to your
Speaker 2: personal finances. We want to talk about how changes out
Speaker 2: in the world are impacting your dollars. And first of all, man,
Speaker 2: let's touch on the government shutdown, because the threats of
Speaker 2: federal layoffs have actually finally came to pass this week.
Speaker 2: And by the way, we're not here to assess the
Speaker 2: political fallout or anything. We're going to stick to the
Speaker 2: individual financial implication. I want to tell about personal finance here.
Speaker 3: I forget which department it was in, but I think
Speaker 3: there was an accidental firing of double the amount of
Speaker 3: intended people Human services.
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, roughly four thousand folks across a few different
Speaker 2: agencies are no longer just furloughed, but they're actually out
Speaker 2: of a job, and threats of more firings are being
Speaker 2: made in an attempt to end the shutdown. But it
Speaker 2: appears that we are still at an impass. But beyond that,
Speaker 2: close to a million federal workers are still for a
Speaker 2: load and haven't gotten paid. Although I think I saw
Speaker 2: the news yesterday was the fact that some of our military,
Speaker 2: some of our members of the military, they're getting their
Speaker 2: their checks paid, at least for this paycheck as they're moving, yeah,
Speaker 2: offing dollars trying to make things happen. But the President
Speaker 2: has threatened that there will be additional folks who won't
Speaker 2: receive back pay that's legally due to them. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure how that would actually play out. I'm sure would
Speaker 2: end up in courts, but I am almost certain that
Speaker 2: this is going to have broader economic implications. But I'm
Speaker 2: just going to.
Speaker 1: Tee it up for you, Joel.
Speaker 2: What's the responsibility that we can transfer to ourselves and
Speaker 2: how we could get by a financial little storm like this.
Speaker 3: Let's be let's be honest that just the feeling of
Speaker 3: not getting a paycheck when you're supposed to get one
Speaker 3: sucks totally, you know, Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2: So on say it. I'm seeing I'm teeing it up
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of personal responsibility in play at play
Speaker 3: in having your finances in order so that you're not
Speaker 3: terribly impacted by something like this. But thirty six months three, Yes,
Speaker 3: you're supposed to have thirty six months. That's why it's
Speaker 3: so important. The emergency fund is so important. But I
Speaker 3: guess I just I think it's important to speak to
Speaker 3: the fear and anxiety that people feel when they're like,
Speaker 3: how long is this going to go on? And how
Speaker 3: long are is my paycheck going to get punted? And
Speaker 3: I can maybe I can miss one, but it's hard
Speaker 3: to miss too. And the truth is, yes, you should
Speaker 3: have three to six months worth of savings on hand.
Speaker 3: But we know this, Matt, from all the studies, we
Speaker 3: see that the vast majority of Americans do not have that,
Speaker 3: and so it puts them in a really tough place.
Speaker 3: Where how am I going to get money to cover
Speaker 3: expenses when a paycheck stops unexpectedly?
Speaker 1: Sure, And so what's.
Speaker 2: Really fascinating is the fact that I think a lot
Speaker 2: of folks who had government jobs probably thought that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a type of work where I don't have
Speaker 2: to you know what, entrepreneurship. That's not for me. I
Speaker 2: just want a steady paycheck from the government. And then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden they find themselves in a situation
Speaker 2: like this, and they might even be sort of less
Speaker 2: prepared from a mental standpoint, right, because like, if you
Speaker 2: are going to launch your own business, you kind of
Speaker 2: know that, man, it's going to be feast or foula,
Speaker 2: you know, like instead the ability to.
Speaker 3: You're ready for the variability of income the entrepreneurship brings,
Speaker 3: whereas You're right, if you sign up for the steady
Speaker 3: paycheck life, it feels more like a gut punch. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's so yeah, I think too. What this highlights, and
Speaker 3: this is something we talk about sometimes on the show,
Speaker 3: is the need for a BBB, a bare bones budget.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and the BBB is ideally something that you
Speaker 3: would kind of figure out and and and suss out
Speaker 3: before you hit this point where you don't have money
Speaker 3: coming in, but also, hey, like if you don't have
Speaker 3: if you're already in hard times, sometimes you just gotta
Speaker 3: go with what's gonna work. And the bear bones budget
Speaker 3: is one of those things that is it's underrated. And
Speaker 3: what you're doing is you're really separating your needs and
Speaker 3: your wants and you're saying, well, these are these are
Speaker 3: just these are things I enjoy saving up for the vacation,
Speaker 3: or saving up for that new car, or streaming services,
Speaker 3: whatever it is. I you know, buying stuff on Amazon
Speaker 3: willy nilly, that's just kind of fun to have, Like
Speaker 3: buying new clothing, like those are all things that can
Speaker 3: really be kind of shoved aside until the bleeding is stopped,
Speaker 3: until the paycheck's resumed. So we have an article up
Speaker 3: on the site about creating a bar bone budget. The
Speaker 3: goal isn't to live like that forever, right to not
Speaker 3: be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor and
Speaker 3: buy some of those things that you care about that
Speaker 3: you've put into the wants category. But the goal is
Speaker 3: too safe for the time being. Wants are off the
Speaker 3: table until that inflow of cash is restored.
Speaker 2: It feels like a like an intermittent financial fasting, right,
Speaker 2: Like you're focusing all the things that are going to
Speaker 2: allow you to survive, but you're cutting out a whole
Speaker 2: lot of the other stuff, Joel, As you alluded to
Speaker 2: in the title of this episode, we are seeing a
Speaker 2: rise in accidental landlords. There are folks who want to
Speaker 2: sell their home, but they aren't very enthusiastic about the
Speaker 2: price that they're able to fetch on the market, and
Speaker 2: they're finding that renting their home out that it might
Speaker 2: be a better bet. There's a research group, Parcel Labs,
Speaker 2: and of course parcel they leave out the E. That's
Speaker 2: how you know it's a new hit think tank anything.
Speaker 3: My son was asking the other day about a hat
Speaker 3: I was wearing and it's from a running company brand.
Speaker 3: It's called Runner Runner yess that's what they're called. But
Speaker 3: it's like are in n R? And he was like,
Speaker 3: what does that spell? And he's in kindergarten, so he's liked,
Speaker 3: where are the vowels? Man Like, sorry, Bud, He's like,
Speaker 3: those aren't that's not that's not.
Speaker 1: A real word. This is how all brand names are made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, but this research group found that more homes
Speaker 2: are being taken off the MLS in order to be
Speaker 2: rented out rather than being sold for a lesser amount,
Speaker 2: and this is another sign that the housing market is
Speaker 2: a little less friendly to sellers these days, and that
Speaker 2: buyers are likely to see better prices in the coming months,
Speaker 2: I think. And the housing market it's really complex, man,
Speaker 2: it's a little fickle, and what happens with race are
Speaker 2: going to have a significant impact on the buyer demand.
Speaker 2: But just know that selling a home and running it
Speaker 2: out are quite different decisions. You've got to be ready
Speaker 2: to take on the reality of landlording and it might
Speaker 2: make financial sense, but it might not. And so we
Speaker 2: would encourage folks to run the numbers. We want folks
Speaker 2: to consider the time that's going to be involved, that
Speaker 2: it's more like a part time job as opposed to
Speaker 2: this passive stream of income. We're just kind of kicking
Speaker 2: back and just cruising down the stream of cash flow.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I will say though, that terms such a tough one,
Speaker 3: the passiving Yeah, just because I think people believe something.
Speaker 1: That's not actually true. Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: But I think what could be helpful too is the
Speaker 2: different folks have heard of the the one way door
Speaker 2: and the two way door decision matrix in selling your
Speaker 2: home certainly falls into the category of more of the
Speaker 2: one way door where you can't easily undo that. You
Speaker 2: can't get your house back, You can't hit command Z,
Speaker 2: you can't you can't undo that transaction and say you
Speaker 2: know what, actually I don't want to do that anymore. No, sorry,
Speaker 2: you don't have that three and a quarter percent mortgage anymore.
Speaker 2: You sold that, You sold that house. As opposed to
Speaker 2: a two way door where you can I think Jeff
Speaker 2: Bezos actually is the one. He coined this or made
Speaker 2: it popular. But like a two way door allows you
Speaker 2: to experiment, try things out at a very low cost,
Speaker 2: and because it's no big deal if it doesn't work out, well,
Speaker 2: no harm, no foul.
Speaker 1: Yeah I hate landlording.
Speaker 2: Well you can already that pretty quick, exactly exactly. And
Speaker 2: so I think that being said, if you know you
Speaker 2: are and did potentially in being a landlord, and you
Speaker 2: have a house and you're not it's sat there on
Speaker 2: the market, it's definitely something to consider.
Speaker 3: Makes me think actually of a house right around the
Speaker 3: corner from ust Matt that was listed for well, I
Speaker 3: think nine hundred thousand and ended up selling for less
Speaker 3: than six hundred thousand.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, yeah, like I know what's what you're
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we looked up the records.
Speaker 3: We were curious to see what it sold for after sold,
Speaker 3: and we're like, oh my gosh, I did not realize
Speaker 3: it sold for that much less than asking price. So
Speaker 3: sometimes that that bitter reality hits you in the face
Speaker 3: when you were assuming, based on the listing prices of
Speaker 3: homes around, you were gonna get a lot more. But
Speaker 3: the market isn't quite what it used to be, and yeah,
Speaker 3: it might be a lot.
Speaker 2: We'll say this particular home, I think they were shooting
Speaker 2: for the moon. Yeah, then they probably realized, oh lady,
Speaker 2: this house hasn't been touched in forty years.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of a lot of issues with it.
Speaker 3: So I feel like I'm seeing a lot more multi
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars price cuts on homes, just people shooting
Speaker 3: for the moon and realizing the market ain't there. And
Speaker 3: another reason homeowners are staying put I think two which
Speaker 3: is making things difficult in the market, matters because they're
Speaker 3: going to owe tax if they sell. Because if someone
Speaker 3: has owned a home for a long time, and the
Speaker 3: value of their home has appreciated significantly. Capital gains taxes
Speaker 3: are going to kick in right if they were to sell,
Speaker 3: which offers another reason to stay put. It's it's not
Speaker 3: just oh, I'm abandoning a three percent mortgage. It's gosh,
Speaker 3: my home is worth eight hundred thousand dollars more than
Speaker 3: it used to be, and I don't want to pay
Speaker 3: forty five thousand dollars in tax because of it. This
Speaker 3: is particularly true for many older homeowners who live in
Speaker 3: expensive markets. But Business Insider had an interesting article about
Speaker 3: whether or not capital gains taxes on primary homes should
Speaker 3: just be eliminated altogether, and similar to a lot of legislation,
Speaker 3: this hasn't been updated since nineteen ninety seven. So if
Speaker 3: we were to index inflation for inflation caps on what
Speaker 3: you would pay from a tax perspective when you sold
Speaker 3: your home, they wouldn't be what they are right now,
Speaker 3: which is two hundred and fifty thousand for single individuals
Speaker 3: and five hundred thousand dollars for people married filing jointly.
Speaker 3: They'd be something like double that. Maybe five hundred thousand
Speaker 3: and a million dollars would be the exclusion.
Speaker 2: Doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this happened in ninety seven, and so they
Speaker 3: would be even higher, by the way, if they were
Speaker 3: indexed to home price growth. But this is something that
Speaker 3: we as individuals don't really have any control over. But
Speaker 3: it is interesting food for thought that is just a
Speaker 3: kind of another lock in mechanism, that is, I think,
Speaker 3: hampering home sales. And if something were to be done
Speaker 3: from a legislation perspective, which again I think there are
Speaker 3: a couple of different proposals, one to eliminate and then
Speaker 3: one just to increase like that, that could actually move
Speaker 3: things forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those capital gains are just one of the manufacturers
Speaker 2: keeping houses from being on the market being opened up
Speaker 2: for folks who really want to live there. Let's touch
Speaker 2: on the cost of utilities. Man, Inflation has calmed down
Speaker 2: in many parts of the economy, but certainly not all parts.
Speaker 2: And we've recently discussed how how much more expensive healthcare
Speaker 2: is getting, but electricity prices are going up at a
Speaker 2: similar ten percent clip year over year.
Speaker 3: Do you blame artificial intelligence and the power sucking to idea? Actually, yeah,
Speaker 3: it has a lot to do with It's got to
Speaker 3: be part of it. I literally went too chachipt to
Speaker 3: ask it if it was the problem behind higher electricity
Speaker 3: product crisis, and it was like, hey, dude, list and
Speaker 3: this is a multi fasted problem.
Speaker 2: Don't just play me. But wasn't getting defensive, But yeah,
Speaker 2: it might be part of it. You're picking up on
Speaker 2: the tone.
Speaker 3: No, it was pretty straightforward in its approach. But it
Speaker 3: was funny how it was like trying not to take
Speaker 3: all the blame.
Speaker 2: What's so crazy is? I mean? I saw I just
Speaker 2: saw the headline yesterday. I didn't read it, but talking
Speaker 2: about how the AI data centers they're building their own
Speaker 2: power plants because of the amount of electricity that they
Speaker 2: are requiring. And you were recently in Memphis, which is
Speaker 2: where Elon Musk's newest the Colossus. Did you swing by there?
Speaker 2: No he didn't. Friend of the show. Yeah, yeah, are
Speaker 2: the world's richest buddy. He didn't give you a tour?
Speaker 1: But no, he didn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't it Microsoft that bought a defunct nuclear power
Speaker 3: plant trying to bring it back online.
Speaker 2: So it's crazy, yeah, but it also it makes a
Speaker 2: ton of sense because it's it almost seems like AI
Speaker 2: has become this public utility. But oh, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we In that sense, it is sort of like a
Speaker 2: public utility because we are all paying the price to
Speaker 2: a certain extent in higher electricity prices. But it makes
Speaker 2: sense though that seventy eight percent of folks are saying
Speaker 2: that their energy bills just across the board are a
Speaker 2: source of stress. And so one tip if you live
Speaker 2: in a state where you can shop with different natural
Speaker 2: gas marketers, we'll certainly do that. And there are all
Speaker 2: sorts of other ways to make your home more efficient
Speaker 2: and still get tax credits for doing it at the
Speaker 2: end of the year, right, yeah, well, and yeah, and
Speaker 2: depending on the state as well, Like so for instance,
Speaker 2: our local there's we've a tax rebate for thermostats. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and guess what, I didn't replace all my thermistats this year,
Speaker 2: just the ones you get, just the two because I'm
Speaker 2: wait until next year. Yeah, because those are still going
Speaker 2: to be there. But you can also make other changes
Speaker 2: to use less energy as well. I'm thinking of the
Speaker 2: ability to wear warmer clothes so you can lower thermistat temperature.
Speaker 3: Thanks dad, I can't wait. Man, you sound just like
Speaker 3: my dad, but now I'm a dad and I say
Speaker 3: the same. No, that's what's it's crazy? I think about
Speaker 3: one of our daughters and she loves and I know
Speaker 3: you've got a daughter this way too. What is up
Speaker 3: with these girls they love? Like in the summer months,
Speaker 3: they're wearing these very warm robes. Yeah, and then they're
Speaker 3: one in the air to be a little bit cooler.
Speaker 3: And I go in her room and the fans on
Speaker 3: full blast. It's like a like a wind tunnel, and
Speaker 3: they're so typical dad fashioned. I say, hey, sweetie, you
Speaker 3: know if you took off your robe and only Warrior
Speaker 3: Jamie's you could lower the fan from high on to
Speaker 3: low that way. It wasn't you know your your mouth
Speaker 3: wouldn't get so dried out in your eyes are so
Speaker 3: dry because the wind's.
Speaker 1: Blowing so hard. I don't quite understand.
Speaker 2: She just stares at me with that like that blank
Speaker 2: preatine stare like that, you don't understand anything.
Speaker 1: We're at the.
Speaker 3: Point now in their progress as adolescents where I think
Speaker 3: they really think we they're getting the point where they
Speaker 3: don't they think they know more than us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they think we're idiots. I don't know how
Speaker 2: I feel about this, but in some ways we are idiots.
Speaker 2: That's true some ways, we are not.
Speaker 3: They're pointing out the truth in some ways. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it's important to note that the tax credits
Speaker 3: for a lot of these home, these green improvements, they
Speaker 3: are federal tax credits. Yeah, through the end of the year.
Speaker 3: And one of the things I think Matt people don't
Speaker 3: consider is insulation. And this is a DIY project you
Speaker 3: can do. I've done it in the past. You can
Speaker 3: like rent that gear by the product and hurl it
Speaker 3: into your attic and it's not that difficult. Me and
Speaker 3: a buddy did it in like hour and a half,
Speaker 3: like insulating the attic at one of my old houses.
Speaker 3: And so think about that, and then just think about
Speaker 3: how much you can save. You can get it deeply
Speaker 3: discounted thanks to the federal government, and then at the
Speaker 3: same time you're going to reduce those those energy costs.
Speaker 3: So and then there might be another way to save
Speaker 3: Matt outside the box way here. Space heaters could be
Speaker 3: a good way to save money this one.
Speaker 2: Or like inside the box space heater box.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess they come into box.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to lean into the whole Dad
Speaker 2: Dad jokes.
Speaker 3: Well seen at ran the numbers which I appreciated specifically
Speaker 3: about how much a save space heater can save if
Speaker 3: you opt to use that, and they can basically save
Speaker 3: depending on how you're getting your energy where you live
Speaker 3: in the country. They can help you save hundreds of
Speaker 3: dollars a year if you use it. And this is
Speaker 3: really important to heat specific spaces over keeping the heat
Speaker 3: on throughout your home. So this I think, yeah, especially Matt,
Speaker 3: for people who work from home, who maybe they're alone
Speaker 3: in the house and they don't need to heat the
Speaker 3: whole entire house. They can turn the temp way down
Speaker 3: this winter and they just have their space heater warming
Speaker 3: up their little space you're heating. Instead of heating twenty
Speaker 3: five hundred square feet, you're heating three hundred square feet,
Speaker 3: whatever it is. I think not heating the whole house,
Speaker 3: but just the space you're using is a smart way
Speaker 3: to go. And this is going to be actually even
Speaker 3: more impactful for people who live in the States where
Speaker 3: home heating oil is the main source of energy because
Speaker 3: it is a much more expensive form of energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, heating oil and propane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, less helpful if you use natural gas, But I
Speaker 3: think it's also even more helpful if you have a
Speaker 3: larger home, because yeah, if you're turning on the heat everywhere,
Speaker 3: and the bigger your house is, the more you're spending
Speaker 3: to keep that house warm.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. What I like what you said though about insulation, though,
Speaker 2: is that that is a passive form of energy saving.
Speaker 2: Whereas the space heater, though it's better than heating the
Speaker 2: whole house, it's still active, it's still costs you money.
Speaker 2: And so yes, heating let's say, one floor as opposed
Speaker 2: to the entire house, is better than heating the whole house.
Speaker 2: And yes, heating one room is better than heating the
Speaker 2: entire floor. But you know what's better than heating an
Speaker 2: entire room just heating yourself. And uh, put that roadback on, sweet,
Speaker 2: because it's winter.
Speaker 3: And you know what you're you're probably number one tip
Speaker 3: to stay warm in the winter. What am I gonna say?
Speaker 2: Oh, man, I can't wait to start drinking hot water. Water.
Speaker 2: We definitely aren't in that season yet.
Speaker 3: But occasionally, every once in a while, you it's too hot,
Speaker 3: you burn your tongue, and I look over that and
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I feel bad for you.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I have gotten better about always testing the
Speaker 2: water before chugging it, but uh, Okay, one other monthly
Speaker 2: cost that's been going down the price of cell service,
Speaker 2: and Mint Mobile is pushing to make the same true
Speaker 2: of home internet.
Speaker 1: They've got a thirty.
Speaker 2: Dollars a month for at home five G internet plan.
Speaker 2: This is if you already have a mit mobile plan.
Speaker 2: But that's pretty great. This is another more competition, ways
Speaker 2: to integrate lower prices or ways for us to be
Speaker 2: or to have available to us some of these different providers.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: Well, for the longest time it was cable company and
Speaker 3: phone companies where you can get internet from. And now
Speaker 3: that you can get them get you know, internet service
Speaker 3: five G from a bunch of different players now, which
Speaker 3: we talked about not too long ago. But it's nice
Speaker 3: to see mint Mobile entering this space as well. Thirty
Speaker 3: bucks a month. And I was looking at the speeds.
Speaker 3: If you look at they have like their little cards
Speaker 3: almost like nutrition fact labels, telling you about how fast
Speaker 3: your download speeds are going to be. They're pretty fast.
Speaker 3: I mean they're not a terabyte, but they're like, you
Speaker 3: don't need a terabyte. Somebody between one hundred and thirty
Speaker 3: and four hundred megabyte, which which is.
Speaker 2: Most that's what most people need me, right, most people
Speaker 2: don't even need that much. Yeah, that's crazy. So if
Speaker 2: you're gonna be a serious techie, if you're w in
Speaker 2: over five hundred.
Speaker 3: I think saw a Facebook post in the how to
Speaker 3: Money Facebook group this week someone said, I spent fifty
Speaker 3: six minutes on the phone to try to lower my
Speaker 3: internet bill. But hey, I saved sixty bucks a month.
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money to save that much money.
Speaker 3: But if this might be one of those ways where
Speaker 3: you don't actually have to get on the phone with anybody.
Speaker 3: You literally just go to mint Mobile's website, you sign
Speaker 3: up for this thing. The equipment is free as well.
Speaker 3: There's no extra fews for that. So thirty bucks a
Speaker 3: month will save a lot of people out there listening
Speaker 3: quite a bit of money, and they'll still get pretty
Speaker 3: fast internet.
Speaker 2: That's right. I would even say that that is a
Speaker 2: form of creative destruction, Joel. Which is another story that
Speaker 2: we're going to get to. We'll touch on the perceived
Speaker 2: importance of college and more right after the break.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, we're back.
Speaker 3: Let's get to the Ludacris headline of the week. Da
Speaker 3: Luda this one cous Does he appear like in the
Speaker 3: state farm commercials.
Speaker 2: When you do that, that's just our new little jingle
Speaker 2: Ducas headline.
Speaker 1: Okay, I like it.
Speaker 3: So this one comes from CNBC and it says attending
Speaker 3: a wedding can cost you as much as a typical
Speaker 3: month's rent. And this is not getting married. This is
Speaker 3: not throwing a wedding. This is going to a wedding.
Speaker 3: This is a study from Zillow which found that going
Speaker 3: to like being involved in the wedding party, essentially going
Speaker 3: to the bachelor bachelorette party plus travel, that's going to
Speaker 3: cost the average attendee more than two thousand bucks, which
Speaker 3: I think just slightly over the typical renters monthly rent.
Speaker 3: And Matt, you and I were no longer in the
Speaker 3: friends getting married phase of our lives. We talked about
Speaker 3: that recently. We're no longer in the friends that are
Speaker 3: getting or having kids phase of our lives, although I
Speaker 3: guess that still happens on occasion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're hey, you speak for yourself. I hold babies occasionally.
Speaker 1: You old babies too.
Speaker 2: Oh baby, We've got plenty of friend who are having babies. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying personally, we are not. I'm saying we're old,
Speaker 2: we don't fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: I'll go to weddings as much as they used to.
Speaker 2: Know, And that's actually kind of sad. Weddings are a
Speaker 2: ton of fun. They are so fun, so much fun. Well,
Speaker 2: you definitely go to a lot less than you used to.
Speaker 3: Used to photograph them, used to be there, be there
Speaker 3: all the time, right, But I guess I too. I
Speaker 3: just I feel for young folks who are put in
Speaker 3: this position. I remember being in that position of someone saying, hey,
Speaker 3: be in my wedding, and it'll be and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're my friend. I would love to be in your wedding.
Speaker 3: And then you're like they're like, oh, you gotta buy
Speaker 3: this suit, and you need to travel here, and we're
Speaker 3: gonna throw this party, and like there were all these
Speaker 3: expenses that were expected from from you as a participant
Speaker 3: in the wedding. And that can feel especially as someone
Speaker 3: who's trying to be frugal, trying to save money, trying
Speaker 3: to make progress. And typically when you're in that young
Speaker 3: phase of life, it's not like you got tons of
Speaker 3: money rolling in and you're like, oh, yeah, this is
Speaker 3: no big deal. It's like two thousand bucks feels like
Speaker 3: a lot of money in a lot of money your
Speaker 3: mid twenties, right, but there's a lot.
Speaker 2: Of money in your even if someone were to be
Speaker 2: in their mid forties, on the mid forties, even if you're.
Speaker 1: Getting close up early forties. Baby, Do you think there are.
Speaker 3: Still ways though, for people be able to tone down the
Speaker 3: cost of stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think maybe.
Speaker 2: Having conversations, yeah, and there's ways to even I think
Speaker 2: be involved in the planning a little bit, Like you're
Speaker 2: talking about bachelor. Maybe not the actual wedding, but when
Speaker 2: it comes to the plans for a bachelor or a
Speaker 2: bachelorette party, it's like, hey, guys, maybe we don't order
Speaker 2: that bottle of crystal hall because it's too infuensive for
Speaker 2: my taste. Why it is that? Anyone?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Why is that? That is? Even? The thing is like
Speaker 2: mind blowing, Like just the whole club culture, like ordering
Speaker 2: a bottle at a club, being there with a bunch
Speaker 2: of other people who are also doing the same thing,
Speaker 2: Like why would you not do that in your own
Speaker 2: home or like a place that you would rent on area.
Speaker 2: It's such an old school way of doing things, but.
Speaker 3: It still happens. Your friend blowing. I'll buy the case
Speaker 3: of beer. Let's do board game n at my house.
Speaker 3: That's the bachelor party, right, Yeah, make the suggestion like.
Speaker 2: That, although I will say, I mean, we want folks
Speaker 2: to be there for their friends. But yes, if you
Speaker 2: have especially if you have other financial goals, I think
Speaker 2: find a way to do it a little bit more
Speaker 2: on the frugal side. But prices or what it is
Speaker 2: that folks were spending on weddings have it has gone
Speaker 2: down in the past twenty years pretty significantly?
Speaker 1: Really Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I mean, like not the actual prices, Like
Speaker 2: when you adjust for inflation, it peaked around two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven, the amount of money that folks were spending on,
Speaker 2: and so it's it's I think it's around like twenty
Speaker 2: five percent less now than it was twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: Wedding's just aren't that crazy matter in the same way.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think folks are just they're just spending
Speaker 2: much less on getting married and all the events surrounding
Speaker 2: the wedding. Folks I think, I mean, folks obviously are
Speaker 2: still getting married, but they're just not throwing the massive
Speaker 2: traditional parties that one might assume needs to be thrown
Speaker 2: as opposed to more alternative ways to elope or to
Speaker 2: get married at the courthouse and then hey, we're running
Speaker 2: out our favorite little restaurant here. Everyone's invited. That's basically
Speaker 2: the reception, right like that, think about how much more
Speaker 2: affordable that is and throwing like a one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty percent wedding. Yeah, that's going to cost you thirty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: So I think I think young people to maybe what
Speaker 3: this speaks to as well is that they're they're thinking
Speaker 3: about those bigger financial decisions are coming up for them,
Speaker 3: including wanting to buy a house.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Instead they're saying, like, should we spend all this money
Speaker 3: on a party a single day? And I think that, Like,
Speaker 3: I love the party atmosphere, like I love that the
Speaker 3: weddings are so much fun. I think back on mine
Speaker 3: with tons of fondness, and I wouldn't want to do
Speaker 3: it any differently. Yeah, we also didn't spend too much
Speaker 3: money on it. But yeah, like I think if you're
Speaker 3: saying we're prioritizing this instead, we want the long term
Speaker 3: benefit of owning our own home, it makes sense that
Speaker 3: you might spend less on a wedding.
Speaker 2: I get it. We've already touched on working from home,
Speaker 2: but the trend away from working from home is in
Speaker 2: full swing, so hybrid work I think. I don't know.
Speaker 2: My impression is that it's still pretty normal, but some
Speaker 2: companies are playing hardball. Their employees aren't loving it, and man,
Speaker 2: there are some folks who are just straight up opting
Speaker 2: to quit their job rather than going back to commuting,
Speaker 2: you know, driving into.
Speaker 1: The office four or five days a week.
Speaker 2: And on top of that, many folks are willing to
Speaker 2: get paid less elsewhere in order to keep that work
Speaker 2: from home perk, that flexibility. There's a new study from
Speaker 2: Harvard that found that software engineers and data scientists with
Speaker 2: multiple job offers, they declined the higher paying ones that
Speaker 2: required in office attendance in order to keep that work
Speaker 2: from home flexibility to the tune of twenty five percent
Speaker 2: less pay, which is significant. Man, Like I would have
Speaker 2: expected something like, oh, yeah, I'll take out ten percent cut,
Speaker 2: but twenty five percent is major. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It just shows how much haircut? No, man, that's like
Speaker 3: it's like taking it down to the scalp. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: straight edge undercut like to this, yeah, to the scalp.
Speaker 2: It just shows Wait, is thatways called undercut, like when you, yeah,
Speaker 2: still out their hair on top. Yeah, I don't want
Speaker 2: you to think like under No, that's an uppercut, like
Speaker 2: a punch, punch to the gut. I don't want you
Speaker 2: to think I was confusing, mixing, mixing up my metaphors.
Speaker 2: But it shows you how much individuals these days are
Speaker 2: valuing that perk. And it also it just makes sense
Speaker 2: to not just commuting to work, Like if you think
Speaker 2: about the total amount of time that you're spending away
Speaker 2: from home. Like we were just touching on people being
Speaker 2: in their homes. There's like a lot of young professionals
Speaker 2: who spent a lot of money on their home, right,
Speaker 2: Like they spend money on that nice new wallpaper or
Speaker 2: the nice new piece of art that they've got up
Speaker 2: on the wall. And if you think about the amount
Speaker 2: of time you dedicate to getting ready for work, commuting
Speaker 2: to work, the time actually being at work then coming
Speaker 2: back home, think about how little time you spend at
Speaker 2: home as opposed to some drab office part where if
Speaker 2: you want to go for a walk after work, it's
Speaker 2: you're walking in a parking deck or or walking the
Speaker 2: stair well as opposed to walking around and your you know,
Speaker 2: your beautiful, sunny neighborhood.
Speaker 3: And also I think your tone on this is also
Speaker 3: revealing maybe a more introverted way of existing in the world.
Speaker 3: I'm more of an extrovert, and so I don't think
Speaker 3: of coming into the office in that same.
Speaker 1: Way I'm showing my cards. Everybody feels.
Speaker 3: People feel differently about it, right, And I think most
Speaker 3: people can admit that, like, oh, if I'm stuck in
Speaker 3: like an hour plus long traffic slog to and from work,
Speaker 3: that that commute can really can be unsatisfying, to say
Speaker 3: the least. But I do think for especially for younger workers,
Speaker 3: this is something we've talked about, Matt, but I think
Speaker 3: it can bring increased connection, increased joy in your work,
Speaker 3: and then specifically more ability to advance. But then it's
Speaker 3: also true that maybe you've been working in the same
Speaker 3: industry for fifteen years or something like that, you have
Speaker 3: a lot of connections, and you have other priorities, and
Speaker 3: so working from home is something that you're more than
Speaker 3: willing to trade off less paid for. I do think
Speaker 3: this this this perk of work from home is not
Speaker 3: seen as a perk anymore. It's almost seen as for
Speaker 3: a lot of people like table stakes for me to
Speaker 3: even consider, you're working at your job in this place,
Speaker 3: and I think the companies who are saying no, no, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have to work in person, they're going to have
Speaker 3: to come up with a compelling reason why, and part
Speaker 3: of that is going to have to be increased pay.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I agree. I do think it does
Speaker 2: feel more like a middle aged slash introvert benefit working
Speaker 2: from home, yeah, as opposed to like that younger but
Speaker 2: also more extroverted approach.
Speaker 3: It's also interesting, right that this study was done of
Speaker 3: tech workers, and it's easier to take a twenty five
Speaker 3: percent pay cut when you're talking about a job that
Speaker 3: pays two rand one hundred fifty grand. It's harder to,
Speaker 3: I think, take that twenty five percent pay cut if
Speaker 3: you're talking about a job that pays one hundred grand
Speaker 3: and seventy five grand or the stakes are different there too,
Speaker 3: So I don't know that everyone's willing to make that
Speaker 3: exact same trade off.
Speaker 1: Not everyone has the.
Speaker 3: Same ability to turn down a much bigger paycheck, and
Speaker 3: part of that is because of the propensity for Americans
Speaker 3: to be in debt. And there was a study debt
Speaker 3: keeps seven in ten people from building wealth. This was,
Speaker 3: according to a new survey from the National Foundation for
Speaker 3: Credit Counseling, not shocking at all. Really, that's why we're
Speaker 3: against most forms of debt because they keep you spinning
Speaker 3: your wheels, they keep you locked in place, they keep
Speaker 3: you unable to make decisions that are in your best
Speaker 3: future interest because you're paying for past mistakes. And for
Speaker 3: most folks too, it takes a while to dig that
Speaker 3: debt hole, in quite a while to dig out of it.
Speaker 3: So if you find yourself in that scenario, you're one
Speaker 3: of those seven and ten people, you're like I hear
Speaker 3: Matt and Joel talking about building net worth. This is
Speaker 3: something that I would love to do, but my goodness,
Speaker 3: I feel like I just can't get out of this
Speaker 3: perpetual debt hangover that I'm living in. Facing the facts
Speaker 3: is crucial because there's no way to really start taking
Speaker 3: yourself out until you do look at head on and say, hey,
Speaker 3: list out all your debts, know what you actually owe,
Speaker 3: and figure out what the monthly payments are. That's a
Speaker 3: really important part of it. And going back to the
Speaker 3: beginning too, Mat I think that barebones budget might be
Speaker 3: the right thing for some of these people who are
Speaker 3: saying I can't build wealth because I'm in lots of debt,
Speaker 3: cutting back significantly for a time in order to make
Speaker 3: sure that you can pay off those debts.
Speaker 1: In shorter order.
Speaker 3: With that kind of goal in mind, it makes it
Speaker 3: easier for a lot of people to actually make progress,
Speaker 3: not just from a financial standpoint, but from that sort
Speaker 3: of myopic focus standpoint. And so I would I'd love
Speaker 3: to see more people who find themselves in that position
Speaker 3: just kicking it up into top gear to be able
Speaker 3: to pay off that debt more quickly.
Speaker 2: Totally and at the very least. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: another way to think about a baarbones budget too, is
Speaker 2: it's sort of like a financial bug out bag, you know,
Speaker 2: for the preant bugapag bug out bat like preppers like
Speaker 2: folks are just like, oh, in case, like you know,
Speaker 2: it hits the fan or there's a natural disaster, like
Speaker 2: a lot of times, it'll include some nonperishable meals like
Speaker 2: a flashlight, I don't know, cash, things like that, but
Speaker 2: something that allows you to hit the road soon without
Speaker 2: having to sit there and figure it out, right. And
Speaker 2: so that's why figuring out a bare bones budget ahead
Speaker 2: of time before some of the furlough.
Speaker 1: Pay takes place.
Speaker 2: But what you're talking about implementing it right now, not
Speaker 2: like off way off in the future, but putting it
Speaker 2: to use right now. But I don't know. I'm just
Speaker 2: helping folks to try to help folks understand how to
Speaker 2: potentially use a bare bones budget. You know, it's just
Speaker 2: a plan for where the the worst financial outcomes were
Speaker 2: they to happen. Yeah, Like it's like a fire drill, right,
Speaker 2: Like the reason you do a fire drill is like
Speaker 2: you hope you don't have to do that, but if
Speaker 2: it gets really bad, you know exactly what it is
Speaker 2: that you should be doing.
Speaker 3: And I do think for some of these people who
Speaker 3: are saying I can't build wealth because I'm in debt,
Speaker 3: like that might be really bad, right and that.
Speaker 2: Might just be like finally fed up and tired of
Speaker 2: the situation that they find themselves in.
Speaker 3: And maybe maybe you implement halfway me But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes for a lot of people, like halfway
Speaker 3: measures can be like you want to make more progress
Speaker 3: on your goal quickly, and it just depends on where
Speaker 3: your mindset's at and how fed you fed up you
Speaker 3: are with the debt that you've got on hand, But like,
Speaker 3: if that were me, because I know what's possible, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to live in this for longer than
Speaker 3: I have to. And then once you reach a certain
Speaker 3: point of stability where you're starting to make where you've
Speaker 3: gotten rid of a lot of that debt, you're starting
Speaker 3: to make progress on your net worth, that's when you
Speaker 3: can kick that barebones budget to the curb and start
Speaker 3: living a life that's more measured in how you spend,
Speaker 3: so that you're not going back to that place, but
Speaker 3: you can also enjoy more of that stuff that you
Speaker 3: care about totally.
Speaker 2: What are you thinking about college these days, Joel, I'm
Speaker 2: not going back. Have I talked to you about the preparation?
Speaker 2: Have we talked about that.
Speaker 1: This guy that's.
Speaker 2: Coming up with this like alternative plan for his for
Speaker 2: his son, I think he's like, I think he wrote
Speaker 2: a book or something about it. But uh, it's like
Speaker 2: all these different paths that you can explore, and they
Speaker 2: each have like kind of a cutesy name, but allows
Speaker 2: you to explore like an entirely different industry, different activities
Speaker 2: to do. I don't know it was really fascinating kid,
Speaker 2: so is high school kids. He's like he's got a
Speaker 2: teenager that yeah, that I think he's putting through that.
Speaker 2: But it did really well. I don't know, just the
Speaker 2: way the hym and somebody else got together and you
Speaker 2: can created a book on that, because there are more
Speaker 2: folks who are just not sure if the high cost
Speaker 2: of college are going to be worth it for you. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: that's cool. I've not heard about that off. Like like
Speaker 2: one is like the medic and it's basically like I
Speaker 2: wish I knew it better. But for instance, you go
Speaker 2: to an EMT like training course, you do this, you've
Speaker 2: all you working a volunteer in hospital. It's just all
Speaker 2: these different avenues of what it looks like to be
Speaker 2: in healthcare to a certain extent. But like at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, after you do like the little course,
Speaker 2: like in that sector, you actually have marketable skills. You
Speaker 2: have not talents, but ability skills that you've learned. Maybe
Speaker 2: maybe a certificate of some yeah exactly, like one of them,
Speaker 2: Like okay, so what maybe one was like home building,
Speaker 2: And I think this certificate costs a lot, like a
Speaker 2: larger amount of money, like the outlays a little bit more,
Speaker 2: but you learn how to operate bulldozers and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: which evidently that costs a lot of money, but it
Speaker 2: kind of makes sense given the distruction that you can
Speaker 2: that you could renk on a site.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like that's.
Speaker 2: Something that even if you choose not to be a
Speaker 2: quote unquote homebuilder and you're not totally sure what you
Speaker 2: want to do with your life, at the end of
Speaker 2: the course, you've got this certificate that then allows you, well,
Speaker 2: instead of driving for Uber, which is of course the
Speaker 2: lowest hanging fruit for a lot of folks because they
Speaker 2: can just download it under their smartphone, you can go
Speaker 2: and work for a company. Yeah, earn way more per hour.
Speaker 2: In the meantime, well the very least.
Speaker 3: You if you become a homeowner at some point, you
Speaker 3: have the ability to fix your own home, probably in
Speaker 3: ways that you wouldn't have before.
Speaker 1: And you're just getting exposure.
Speaker 3: I like that because you're getting exposure to instead of
Speaker 3: just saying, hey, you're eighteen, what is the thing you
Speaker 3: want to do for the rest of your life? Pick
Speaker 3: that thing right now, you're getting exposure to a bunch
Speaker 3: of different things before you get to that point the way, Yeah, yeah, Well,
Speaker 3: I think is fascinating while you're bringing this up, is
Speaker 3: because there was this like Gallop Pole, and basically Gallop
Speaker 3: found that the importance of college is being questioned now
Speaker 3: more than ever before. Only thirty five percent of Americans
Speaker 3: think that college is very important. That's compared to seventy
Speaker 3: five percent twenty ten. It's interesting to see that the
Speaker 3: decline across every subgroup of American life, that nobody really
Speaker 3: thinks college is as important as it used to be.
Speaker 3: But that's not surprising to me, right, And this is
Speaker 3: why people are coming up with alternative routes to tease
Speaker 3: their kids or to help their kids figure out what
Speaker 3: they want to pursue in the future before they just
Speaker 3: go off send them to an expensive four year school.
Speaker 3: I think it's escalating cost, mounting student loan debt. Those
Speaker 3: are big parts of the reason. And we're just seeing
Speaker 3: a higher percentage of college graduates not putting their degree
Speaker 3: to good use, feeling like they could have gone without
Speaker 3: and then they wouldn't have been saddled with that debt.
Speaker 3: I don't know that a college degree is the same
Speaker 3: crucial stepping stone to living in a middle class lifestyle
Speaker 3: as it once was. I mean, to be fair, the
Speaker 3: other side of the equation, the average college graduate, it
Speaker 3: still makes a lot more over their lifetime that someone
Speaker 3: with just a high school diploma, but the value proposition
Speaker 3: isn't what he used to be. And I just don't
Speaker 3: know if that reality is going to hold over the
Speaker 3: next thirty years in the way that it has over
Speaker 3: the past thirty Exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should mention one silver lining. Yes, overall college
Speaker 2: costs are going up, but so are the discounts that
Speaker 2: colleges are offering. And we got to mention in front
Speaker 2: of the show Ron Lieber because he reports that the
Speaker 2: average discounts for full time students at private colleges is
Speaker 2: fifty six percent, which is that's a big discount man.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So basically they say it's going to cost forty grand,
Speaker 3: and then it costs nowhere near that ultimately because of than.
Speaker 1: Half of that aid that's offered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're paying nowhere near that the shockingly high
Speaker 2: list price. It is not the real price. This is
Speaker 2: the good news. But only for the folks out there
Speaker 2: who know this and who are acting accordingly, who are
Speaker 2: pushing for a financial aid, who are pushing for just
Speaker 2: different merit aid that might be available to them, and
Speaker 2: who are searching for schools that offer more of both
Speaker 2: of this aid. But still the lack of transparency about
Speaker 2: what discounts are offered and to whom it is being
Speaker 2: offered to is It's a frustrating part of the process.
Speaker 2: But certainly know that the list price is not the
Speaker 2: actual cost of attending that school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, let's quickly touch on the Nobel Prize
Speaker 3: in Economics was warded to three different economists secons early
Speaker 3: this week. I'm not going to lie and say that, oh,
Speaker 3: I followed their work mostly or anything like that, because
Speaker 3: that's not true.
Speaker 1: I did not.
Speaker 3: But in reading about kind of why these guys won
Speaker 3: the Nobel Prize, that I thought was at least worth
Speaker 3: mentioning because their work centered around explaining and quantifying the
Speaker 3: reality of creative destruction, which is an important concept in economics.
Speaker 3: And I don't know that you and I have touched
Speaker 3: on it a lot because we mostly talk personal finance microeconomics,
Speaker 3: but this is truly one of the most important features
Speaker 3: of our economics system, and it ensures that the top
Speaker 3: dogs aren't going to be there forever. It realizes that
Speaker 3: innovation drives competition, increases standard of living for all of us,
Speaker 3: and then it drives down prices as a whole over time.
Speaker 3: And while it can suck, I guess to be in
Speaker 3: the industry that's on the fritz, that's kind of in decline,
Speaker 3: like being in typewriters right when computers are coming.
Speaker 1: Around the processors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like no, but ultimately it's better for humanity
Speaker 3: as a whole, and so we shouldn't want the typewriter
Speaker 3: industry to stick around. It makes you think of this
Speaker 3: happens all the time all the time, and we just
Speaker 3: assume that the top dogs are going to be there forever.
Speaker 3: So like Kodak, they found out about digital technology in
Speaker 3: photography before anybody else and they kind of sat on
Speaker 3: it and then they were usurped by a bunch of
Speaker 3: other players in the photography industry. Same thing even with
Speaker 3: Google and AI right now, there's I think Google wrote
Speaker 3: this incredible. They had a lot of in house work
Speaker 3: on that. They wrote white paper on it in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: and other people have surpassed them quickly. Because Google didn't
Speaker 3: want to cannibalize the money maker, which was paid search.
Speaker 2: Ads ad sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's just fascinating to see that the companies you
Speaker 3: think right now are unstoppable, they probably won't be forever.
Speaker 3: And if history has anything to say about it, creative
Speaker 3: destruction means think, yeah, some companies are going to lose,
Speaker 3: but that we're.
Speaker 1: All going to benefit from that losing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to allow for that creative destruction is so important.
Speaker 2: And this is not to go take a political turn
Speaker 2: or anything, but this is like my beef with the
Speaker 2: government shutdown, because what's at the center of the government shutdown.
Speaker 1: It's a healthcare subsidies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and so which is the government reducing the
Speaker 2: price of a system that is not working very well.
Speaker 2: And so the fact that the government is subsidizing the
Speaker 2: cost of health care, it only like, do the insurance
Speaker 2: have any in the healthcare providers? Do they have any
Speaker 2: incentive to reduce the prices or to get creative or
Speaker 2: for there to be more competition.
Speaker 3: No, and so there's already very little incentive based on
Speaker 3: the way that the structure is set up.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so actually, but yeah, I want to see
Speaker 2: more creative distruction, specifically in healthcare, because that's something that
Speaker 2: a lot of folks are talking about these days, there
Speaker 2: need to be more competitors, there need to be more alternatives,
Speaker 2: and maybe this is on my mind. We never listened
Speaker 2: to the radio, but we were in a while. We
Speaker 2: were in a loner vehicle yesterday and the radio was
Speaker 2: on and there is an ad for a health sharing
Speaker 2: company that I never heard of, and my daughter was like, well,
Speaker 2: what's that? And I got to explain to her what
Speaker 2: that is, and that's how that's actually something that we
Speaker 2: are on. This is not that particular one, but just
Speaker 2: explaining basic essentially creative distraction and how like this is
Speaker 2: coming up because there is a desire for there to
Speaker 2: be alternatives.
Speaker 3: So favorite podcast episode I've listened to recently was specifically
Speaker 3: on the healthcare topic, and it was an actually an
Speaker 3: episode from like ten years ago from this podcast called
Speaker 3: econ Talk, Oh Yeah and Man, which is just one
Speaker 3: of the greatest if you care about economics at all,
Speaker 3: and Russ Roberts is such a great host's been doing
Speaker 3: it for.
Speaker 2: A long time, but he's very smart individual. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: spoke with.
Speaker 3: A guy who started the Surgery Center of Oklahoma and
Speaker 3: they don't take insurance, and he talked about the way
Speaker 3: they've created an actual free market health system inside of
Speaker 3: their location, and this has spread to many other parts
Speaker 3: of the country. But that's just not how it works
Speaker 3: for the most part in healthcare. It is such an opaque,
Speaker 3: non market based system. And so I love seeing stuff
Speaker 3: like that pop up. And actually, people with insurance go
Speaker 3: to the Surgery Center of Oklahoma or other similar places
Speaker 3: because it's actually cheaper to pay the cash rate at
Speaker 3: a place like that than it is to pay the
Speaker 3: insurance adjusted rate in going to your local hospital.
Speaker 2: So and guess what, they're probably getting better service, better providers,
Speaker 2: better surgeons because of the fact that they don't have
Speaker 2: to deal with all the red tape, they don't have
Speaker 2: to deal with insurance, and they're attracting the talent. They're
Speaker 2: offering a superior product essentially, and then patients are going
Speaker 2: there because they want that.
Speaker 1: Superior service, superior product.
Speaker 2: Okay, was that we dabbled too much in politics for
Speaker 2: the end there?
Speaker 1: How about that?
Speaker 3: I think we're good. But if you have angry emails,
Speaker 3: send them directly to Matt. Send him to Joel how
Speaker 3: money Pot atjmail dot com.
Speaker 2: We read them all we do we do.
Speaker 3: Please reach out holler at us We love to hear
Speaker 3: from you, and we hope you have a great weekend.
Speaker 3: But until next time, Matt. Best friends Out, best Friends Out,