WEBVTT - David Dominé: A Dark Room in Glitter Ball City: Murder, Secrets, and Scandal in Old Louisville 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:05.640 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.240 Once they run that dark little room with the dirt floor, 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.320 they could see a patch against a wall, and they 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.840 started to dig, and four hours later they dug up 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.360 this blue rubber mad container with the remains of Jamie Carroll. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.279 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.080 in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.960 podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.960 research for my many audio and book projects has taken 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.280 me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:52.040 with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.480 and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.320 crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.240 good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:08.760 unpublished details behind their stories. I love a good murder 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.399 story set in the South, and this is a pretty 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.440 intense one. It centers on a vicious murder in a 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.479 crumbling Kentucky mansion and a killer who managed to cover 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.920 it up for months. Author David Domine writes about it 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.520 in his book A Dark Room in Glitterball City, Murder, Secrets, 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:32.760 and scandal in Old Louisville. You are someone after my 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.679 heart because you love a good ghost story. Tell me 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.000 about how you found the story to begin with. I've 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:39.920 read about it. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:41.840 It's just one of those stories that kind of fell 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.040 in my lap. So I live in Louisville, Kentucky right now. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.360 I'm not from this area. I'm from Wisconsin. I came 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.680 here in nineteen ninety three to go to law school, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.240 and you know, I didn't really look forward to coming 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.360 to Louisville, Kentucky. I've never been here before. So my 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.040 plan was to do my time and get out of town, 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.240 but that never happened. I ended up loving the city, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.520 and in nineteen ninety nine I bought a house. I 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.320 fell in love with one part of the town. It's 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.520 called Old Louisville. It's one of the largest historic preservation 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.240 districts in the country. There's forty five scare blocks of 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:15.160 old houses, roughly fourteen hundred old homes and mansions, mostly 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.560 from the eighteen eighties and the eighteen nineties, and so 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.919 that area just kind of sucked me in. Well. In 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.520 nineteen ninety nine, I had a chance to buy a 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.600 house in that neighborhood, and my partner and I lived 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.120 there for eight years. But right before we moved into 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.160 this house, the previous owner just casually mentioned that the 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.520 house was haunted and we moved in, we'd be getting 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.720 a resident polter guys named Lucy, and so I just 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.760 kind of, you know, pooh poohed her warnings and we 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.920 moved in, and sure enough, all the crazy stuff she 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.560 said what happened began to happen. And long story short, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.560 I never saw that ghost that was I was hoping 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.840 to see to kind of make me a true believer. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.160 But all these other things of a paranormal nature people 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.560 would say began happening in the house. And that's when 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.680 I began to discover more about the neighborhood, and I'd 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.239 found out more about the house, and I discovered you 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.399 can use ghost stories and hauntings as vehicles for more 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.400 than just talking about the pair ofanormal And there's history 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.000 and there's architecture. So I got into writing about the neighborhood. 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.600 And when we moved out in two thousand and eight 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.760 from that house, I was a food writer and I 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.000 heard right around the corner a new house had come 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.600 on the market a house that hadn't been for sale 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.959 in years. It was called the Richard Robinson House and 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.720 it was massive. It was like twelve bedrooms over ten 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.320 thousand square feet. But I heard they had the original 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.280 wine cellar from when the family built in eighteen ninety eight, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.400 and I got into my head somehow, if you're going 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:40.520 to be a food rid, you have to have a 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.920 wine cellar. So I made an appointment to go look 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.000 at the house and it was huge. It was just 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.200 too much work. I could tell right away, right when 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.000 I walked in. Despite the grand stairs and the beautiful 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.080 parquet in lay on the hardwood floors and the beautiful 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.680 molding and stained glass windows, I knew it was going 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.600 to be too much work. But I thought, well, go 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.560 look at the wine cellar. You know you're looking at 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.480 the house because you're interested in the wine cellar. So 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.920 went down to the basement, worked our way through this 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.640 maze like warrn of little rooms, and finally found the 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.640 wine cellar. And it was a disaster. Like much of 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.800 the house, it had a dirt floor, but previous tenants 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.479 had just thrown boxes of you know, trash in there, 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.839 and you could only tell it was a wine cellar 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.599 because of the shadows the outlines of the shelves that 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.400 had been on the brick wall at one time but 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.440 then had been removed over time, and so that was 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.960 kind of the nail in the coffin. I thought, no, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.240 don't need to do this, and so said thank you 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.960 to the real estate agent. And as we were going 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.120 out the front door and down the walkway to the 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.760 sidewalk out in front of the house, a man was 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.880 rushing up the stairs and it turns out he had 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.440 the appointment right after we did, and he kind of 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.400 bumped into me and didn't say excuse me. I thought 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.280 that was kind of, you know, rude, but I didn't 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.560 really think anything of it, and we went on with 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:58.600 the rest of the day and that was that, or 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.680 so I thought. Two years later, it was the morning 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:06.480 of June eighteenth, twenty ten. I teach at a local university. 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.760 I was up drinking my coffee, getting ready to go teach, 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.320 and I had one of the local stations on, and 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.920 all of a sudden, there was kind of a newsflash 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.760 and a big, boxy, red brick house popped up on 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.840 the screen and there were police out front that had 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.920 caution tape all around it. And I saw the house 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.560 and I thought, well, that house looks awfully familiar. And 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.520 I thought, well, probably down in old Louisville where all 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.640 the old Victorian houses are. And then a mug shot 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.960 popped up, and I stared at that mugshot, and I thought, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.599 who is he? I know that guy, you know? I 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.960 thought maybe just from the neighborhood or something. And then 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.039 all of a sudden it dawned on me that was 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.080 the guy who had the appointment with the real estate 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.040 agent that morning. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.599 So tell me about Jeffrey Mund, Joey Bannis, and Jamie 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.440 Carroll separately, and then tell me about when they came together. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.239 Yeah. So at the time they were all thirty seven 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.920 years old. Jeffrey Mount went to a good high school 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.359 here in Louisville. Is future boyfriend Joey Bannis did as well. 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.520 They both came from kind of privileged backgrounds. Jeffrey ended 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:12.200 up getting a scholarship at Indiana University and he studied 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.919 computer sciences and got a very good job. He was 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.200 a big it person. He ended up in Chicago for 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.799 a time. He was working at Northwestern Universities in charge 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.559 of their big technology overhaul and he had had other 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.200 jobs as well. Joey Bannis, on the other hand, he 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.800 was more of a ne'er do well. He was a 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.120 deadhead for a while and worked in restaurants, supposedly as 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.719 a ski instructor. He had designs of opening his own 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.880 club in town. He claimed to have already opened a club, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.400 but some people dispute that. But he was known in 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.840 the community for being kind of a colorful figure at 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.359 the local clubs. He bartended very often and he would 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.880 often have like his hair done in a bright blue 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.479 neon mohawk. He had body painting, and he really stood out. 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:06.520 And so Jeffreymont, according to his story, had just moved 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:10.360 back to Louisville from Chicago. He said his then boyfriend 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.200 had dumped him by text and he was kind of 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.920 coming back home to lick his wounds, and that's when 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.680 he met Joey Bannis in an online chat room and 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.720 they kind of hooked up and they started going out together. Eventually, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.160 Joey moved himself into the house on four Street, and 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:32.240 when he moved in, he had had several hookups with 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:37.000 Jamie Carroll. They met online and Jamie Carroll was a 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.840 drug dealer. Joey Bannis was a drug dealer as well, 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.600 but they had also kind of dated on and off, 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.400 and so the three of them kind of hooked up. 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.880 And so the night in question, June seventeen, twenty ten, 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.000 Jamie Carroll was in town and he had some outstanding 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.880 warrants and the idea was he had come to town 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.920 with the plan of turning himself in the next day. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:01.720 He was going to go to jail and try to 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.520 do his time and come out and be on the 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.640 straight and narrow, you know, get a fresh start. But 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.240 before he turned himself in that next day, he wanted 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.680 one last night out on the town. And when Joey 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.520 found out that he was in town, he said, come 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.080 on over to the house and bring lots of drugs 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.920 and Jeffrey and I will party with you. We'll send 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.840 you off with a bang. And Jamie arrived and they 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:28.360 started doing crystal meth and other things. And supposedly after 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.840 they ran through the first batch of drugs, Jamie left 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.400 went back to his hotel room to get more drugs. 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.920 And in that window of time that's where whoever you 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.880 believe Jeffrey floated the idea or Joey floated the idea 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.360 of killing Jamie and keeping his drugs and money because 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.600 Jeffrey and Joey were having major financial issues. Jeffrey had 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.520 been working at the University of Louisville as an IT consultant. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.840 He was making over a quarter million dollars a year, 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.520 but he started missing work and showing up Hie, so 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.520 they let him go, so no money was coming in 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.400 to pay the bills. Jamie did come back, and Jamie 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.760 was a hairdresser. He had a shop in Lexington, and 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:09.840 he had a checkered pass. You know, he had been 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.040 a drug dealer, and some people described him as ruthless, 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.199 but a lot of people said he was charming in 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.760 high school and he was out in the nineties in 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.000 eastern Kentucky and said he was very confident being a 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.640 gay man. And some said he didn't look like he 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.320 had a care in the world. But when he came back, 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.559 the three of them were in bed and they took 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.920 a little break from things, and depending on who you believe, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.840 Jeffrey got out of the bed, left Jamie and Joey 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.040 on the bed. When he went to pull up the 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.160 laptop and look at some porn and he heard a 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.280 scuffle and turned around and found Jamie yelling for help, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.720 and there was Joey stabbing him. If you believe Joey, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.440 he's the one that got out of bed. He heard 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.520 the scuffle at the computer, turned around and he saw 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:59.520 Jeffrey attacking Jamie. But whatever happened, Jamie ended up on 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.760 the floor or kind of cowering in a corner. He 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.400 was bleeding profusely. He had fallen into like a glass shelf, 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.360 and there was blood all over the place. And then 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.960 one of the two guys took a pistol and shot 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.880 him in the head, kind of execution style, and then 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:18.319 they took his body down to the basement and that's 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.000 when they proceeded to bury him. And it took well 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:22.760 over the course of a day. You know, they were 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.200 planning what to do and stuff, but they ended up 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.080 down in the basement. And it took him hours to 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.760 dig the pit where Jamie was buried, because he was 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.880 well over four feet into the ground. And yeah, whoever 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.959 you believe, Joey said he was terrified of Jeffrey. He 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.800 said Jeffrey had gone into kind of commando mode, ripped 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.120 out all the SIM cards in Jamie's phone and like 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.960 he had done stuff like this before. Jeffrey said, no, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.800 that's what Joey did. And then this is where it's 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.520 really interesting when the trials finally did take place, because 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.640 they were both arrested charged with murder. In the end, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.760 they both admitted to covering up the body, but they 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.920 each insisted they had only done this because each had 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.240 been living in fear of the other for the previous 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.240 seven months. And so in the first trial, Joey went 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.560 on trial first, separately. Several months later, in twenty thirteen, 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:20.440 Jeffrey went on trial, and originally the death penalty would 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.360 have been an option, but the prosecutor agreed to take 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.079 it off the table if they each agreed to testify 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:32.480 against the other. So when Joey was on the stand first, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.040 it came out that one of the reasons he was 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.480 terrified of Jeffreymont is because Jeffreymont had worked for the 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.439 CIA as an assassin and I killed over thirty some people. Okay, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.880 that's why he was terrified. And everyone in the courtroom 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.240 just kind of rolled their eyes. When Jeffrey was brought 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.040 to the stand and kind of asked about that, he said, no, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.600 I never have been an assassin, but he said Joey 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.280 and Jeffrey they had like role playing games for sex 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.319 and stuff, and one of their role plays was that 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.200 Jeffrey liked to play that he was an assassin from 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.080 the CIA. So no one really put too much store 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.280 in any of that until later on some weird things 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.040 came out and all of a sudden, people wondered if 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:14.360 maybe Jeffrey Wont wasn't working for the CIA, because they 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.640 found out he's an expert in different European languages, Eastern 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:22.439 European languages. There were pages and pages of text messages 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.360 and transcripts from emails in Russian and German that never 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.520 made it back from the translators in time. And what 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.880 was interesting is when the murder was found out on 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.080 June eighteen, two thousand and ten, Joey and Jeffrey were 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.400 already out on bond from another crime in April of 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.520 that year, twenty ten. They were up in Chicago when 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.240 they were arrested, so this was when Jamie's body was 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.880 down in the ground. They were arrested because they had 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.480 been counterfeiting money the whole time in the house on 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.319 four Street, the second floor. They kind of turned into 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.840 a counterfeit money operation. They were taking dollar bills, they 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.640 were bleaching them ands and then restamping those cleaned papers 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.520 as higher denomination bills as fifteen hundred dollar bills. So 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.920 that weekend in April of twenty ten, they went up. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.679 They checked into the Highatt Regency in downtown Chicago. I'm 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.880 assuming the idea was they were going up to see 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.200 how good they were, how much fake money they could pass. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.559 Evidently they weren't very good, because they had just checked 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.360 into the hotel and hadn't even left before they were arrested. 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.040 They had given the dorman a fake hundred dollar bill 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.040 and he knew right away something wasn't right. He said, 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.120 it kind of felt kind of oily, and he called 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.240 the police. The police came and ended up arresting Jeffrey. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.800 They found fifty four thousand dollars in counterfeit money in 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.600 their rooms, in addition to bags and bags of date 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.000 rape drugs, bomb making supplies, guns forged documents, and fake IDs. 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.200 They were planning a bank heist while they were up 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.720 in Chicago, and so the murder trial that kind of 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.800 trumped everything. But they were supposed to be all these 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.400 federal charges outstanding, you know, the counterfeit money and stuff 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.640 like that, and whatever happened with those trials, no one 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.920 really knows because they never made the news or anything. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.439 And some people have been floating the idea that it's 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.400 because Jeffrey was involved with the CIA and they kind 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:10.200 of got him off. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.760 So how long had Joey and Jeffrey been together before 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.920 all of this starts to happen. And I know it's 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.280 very sort of a loose term because they're bringing other 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.920 people into the relationship, but how long had they been involved? 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.520 Well, and of course it depends which side you listen to, 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.680 the prosecution or the defense, but it wasn't very long 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.360 in either case if you believe what Joey said. He 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.280 made it sound like they met around Halloween of two 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:41.600 thousand and nine. So the prosecution kind of painted it 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.520 as they were in this long term relationship and they 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.520 did everything together. But Jeffrey Month's defense attorney was kind 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.080 of able, i think successfully to point out, no, they 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.400 were only together for a few months, and he was 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.120 able to bring an evidence that Joey, who had just 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.400 gotten out of prison, had plans on finding a mark. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.560 He was looking for a man to live with and 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.200 mooch off of and he had I mean, they had 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:05.720 lists that he had made and one of the first 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.360 things was get money for bail tracking devices on the car. 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.640 I mean, just all this crazy stuff. Was looking for 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.520 machine guns, and every day the trial just kept getting 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.280 more and more bizarre. They had suicide tapes that Joey 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.600 had made, but then when they showed them, people suggested 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.920 that they were manufactured, you know, they were fabricated. They 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.960 had made those thinking that if they ever did get arrested, 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.440 they would have these things to kind of throw a wrench. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.400 That's what a lot of people think happened. It's just 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.200 a bizarre story, a bizarre murder trial. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.600 So when police separate Jeffrey and Joey, which is always 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.200 a good idea, and they start going back and forth, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.360 well Jeffrey did this, well, actually, you know, Joey's the 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.760 one that did this. Was there not a way to 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:57.080 tease out whose story actually matches the physical evidence? You know, 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.320 is there any way for the police to suss out 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.360 exactly what happened versus what these two guys who are 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.359 high on crystal meth. I'm assuming still during the interrogation 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:07.800 are telling the truth or not. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.000 Yeah, I mean I don't know that. They everyone bothered 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.640 to try to look at the logistics of three people 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.720 being on the bed and how it could have panned 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.040 out a certain way. But one thing was interesting. Certain 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.720 things were suppressed. And so when I sat through the 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.600 trials the first time, one of the things that was 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.040 kind of a mystery is the defense painted it as 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.160 Joey Bannis was the one who first brought up the 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.600 notion of the body being buried someplace, and their whole 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.400 justification was, now, if he's guilty, why is he going 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.200 to bring up a body in the basement. But then 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.680 it came out later on in the trials that Jeffrey Month, 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.240 according to the police reports, is the one that first 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.040 brought it up. He said to the responding officer, ask him, 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.280 pointing to Joey, ask him about the body and the basement, 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:02.400 and the defense successfully had a statement suppressed. So the 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.840 way the defense painted it, it did look like Joey 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.560 was the one to bring up this body in the 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.560 first place, and that's why so many people were confused. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.560 You know, why would he be bringing this up. He's 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.800 going to, you know, bring himself down if he's you know, 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.800 pointing out this body in the basement. But it turns 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.159 out esupposedly Jeffrey Munt had brought it up, and then 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.320 that kind of lent more credence to the overall notion 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:25.960 of what happened that night, And that's still kind of 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:30.000 a big mystery. But people suspect that Jeffrey had had 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.359 enough and he was probably going to go to the 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.560 police and had told Joey that night, the evening of 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.840 June seventeen, twenty ten, and Joey, you know, he had 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.960 been to prison numerous times already, he knew that was 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.280 going to be the end for him. He was going 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.440 to be going back. So he either he was high 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:47.919 and didn't know what he was doing, or else he 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:49.919 knew very well what he was doing and thought he'd 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.320 probably take Jeffrey down with him, probably thinking, you know, 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:53.520 if I'm going to go down, you're going to go 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:54.000 down with me. 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.280 With these two men, what is the caliber of their 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.480 defense teams? Are they school or because Jeffrey, I know 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.160 he's in debt, but because he had a job, does 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.000 he afford an attorney or do you have the classic 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.040 attorneys come to them because they want the publicity. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.640 You did notice, first of all, the size. They both 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.959 had excellent defense attorneys. Joey, who went on trial first, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.560 had Darren Woolf. He's quite a well known figure, and 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.240 he was assisted by Justin Brown. And then Jeffrey he 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.280 had four people on his defense team. Steve Romanes is 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.800 kind of a Mattlock Southern type of lawyer, you know, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.960 folksy kind of lawyer, was the lead defense and he 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.360 was assisted by Ted Shause, and then they had their 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.720 two assistance as well. And you just noticed by the number, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.800 you know, Jeffrey had twice as many people, you know, 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.520 sitting next to him when he was at the table. 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.200 And then the other thing is by that point Joey 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.720 was convicted of the bulk of the crimes during that 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.800 first trial, so when Jeffrey went on trial, they were 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.760 able to say, we already got person. He's been convicted. 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.960 And I think that really helped the defense a lot, 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:10.919 and also I think the prosecution they got somewhat complacent 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.879 after the first trial. Much of their argument for the 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.200 second trial was exactly the same. Some of their lines 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.240 were verbatim, so they were just I think, kind of 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.440 coasting thinking they were going to use the same defense, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.800 but by that point, Jeffrey Month's defense attorneys were able 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.080 to study things, and there was just all this stuff 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.600 that came out. It was two completely different trials. I 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.720 mean to see the stuff that was suppressed in the 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.320 first trial that was allowed to come out in the 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.960 second trial, and vice versa. And in the second trial 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.159 they brought up all this stuff about Joey Bannis. One 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.720 of the things that kind of impressed me during the 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.520 first trial is Joey Bannis. He was always even keeled, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.159 he was soft spoken, he was articulate, he never changed 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.120 his story once, and so a lot of people went 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.600 into that first trial thinking, like the media had painted it, 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.160 that Joey was probably more guilty of the two because 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.360 he had this rap sheet and he was notoriously violent 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.080 and volatile. Jeffrey mont had never had trouble with the 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.000 law before. They made it seem like he kind of 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.439 got swept up in all of this. But after that 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.280 first trial, just seeing Joey maintain his composure on the 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.399 stand and Jeffrey get caught in a lot of lies, 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.760 a lot of people left that first trial thinking that 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.639 Jeffrey probably was the more guilty of the two. But 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.000 during the second trial, then they brought in all this 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:28.240 other stuff about Joey, like how psychotic he really is psychopathic, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.639 and just all these things that he had planned. You know, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.280 they were able to, like I said, provide these lists, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.600 and we found out a little more about some of 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.800 his other crimes and stuff, and people were testifying against him. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.879 Supposedly his own family was telling people to stay away, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.080 that their brother, their son, you know, was evil. So 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.280 if your own family members are talking like that, that 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:52.840 says a lot about you know, you as a person. 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.399 I think what is the difference between as far as 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.560