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Speaker 1: On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef in best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Backdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my

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Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Toronte, and this is the backtel Cast,

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Speaker 1: our podcast about how women are portrayed in movie through

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. I know, oh, I just want

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Speaker 1: you for them now they know they well, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the beck Del Cast. We are like activated right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm less exhausted, I'm drinking of Mike's hard lemonade. We're

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Speaker 1: literally Rooney and Garland right now, aged twelve. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to be Rooney, please. I don't Ohoney and Judy Garland

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Speaker 1: arn my king. I love baking Rooney, I love small

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Speaker 1: thick Hey speaking okay, so us talking about Mickey Rooney

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Speaker 1: means that our conversation is not passing the Bechtel test,

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Speaker 1: always bringing it back. The Bechtel test, which is what

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Speaker 1: is the inspiration for our podcast, requires that a movie

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Speaker 1: has two female characters with names who talk to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man and based on

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Speaker 1: armed version of the Bechtel test. It just has to

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Speaker 1: be like a two line exchange among two female identifying characters.

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Speaker 1: Let's try it, shall we. I'd love to Hey Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: Hey Jamie, I was thinking about going to Chipotle after this.

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Speaker 1: Are you inviting me? Or are you just telling me?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to comment? I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: funk with Chipotle? Oh? I fuck with Chipole? Let's do it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Fun ye? Two women making plans our new show or

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Speaker 1: taking another out? Amazing two dope. Queen's making plans to

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Speaker 1: get to Chipotle together as a group. And that's the

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Speaker 1: whole title of the podcast. Yeah, I have to say

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Speaker 1: it in one breath. So we're here to talk about

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Speaker 1: a movie, as we always are, and as we always do.

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Speaker 1: We have a guest and our guests. Let's again just

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Speaker 1: reminding you what this podcast is. Sometimes every time we

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Speaker 1: reiterate what the podcast is, I do somehow internalize it

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Speaker 1: as like Jamie's so dumb, she probably forgot what the

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Speaker 1: podcast is about. But that is part of our job

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Speaker 1: and it's not a reflection on me, and I just

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Speaker 1: have to do more cognizant time I'm just always assuming

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Speaker 1: that every episode we do is the first episode that

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Speaker 1: one of our new fans listens to one of our

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Speaker 1: new fans, Right, We're always having new fans, so many fans.

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Speaker 1: I've addicted to the fans I'm getting I'm so tired,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know what's happening if this is the

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Speaker 1: first episode you're listening to. Well, sorry, let's introduce our guests. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I feel so bad she has had

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Speaker 1: to see this much. Yeah, she is a wonderful person.

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Speaker 1: She was my colleague at the Nerdest show room at

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Speaker 1: Meltont Comics, and she's a hilarious comedian. Jenny to Loocky in, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. Of course,

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Speaker 1: so you brought us, But I'm a cheerleater, a cheerleadter.

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Speaker 1: Tell us your history with this movie and when to

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Speaker 1: do you first see it? What's your relationship? I saw

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Speaker 1: it in high school. I saw it in Rome, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: in my friend's house. She put it on. I had

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Speaker 1: heard nothing about it, and I wasn't a gay then.

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Speaker 1: I just was just a freelance Jenny, A freelance Jenny.

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Speaker 1: I was too stupid to know I was gay, And

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Speaker 1: I watched this movie and yeah, it blew my tiny

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Speaker 1: little mind. Wait, how old were you at the time. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I did the five Year Plan in college. Seventeen sixteen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so around the age that Megan is in the movie.

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Speaker 1: I think, so, yeah, did you have a similar experience

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Speaker 1: where like people had to be like Jenny, I think

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Speaker 1: you might be gay. Yes, A couple of people approached

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Speaker 1: the object, and I was just like, what I would know, that,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't I I would be the first to know I

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Speaker 1: wasn't some people, some people caught on a little sooner

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Speaker 1: than I did. So yeah, good steaks, because like I

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Speaker 1: went to boarding school, I was I went to I

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Speaker 1: was in an all girls dorm, and I was like

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Speaker 1: one nine. Especially then, I definitely would know. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, girls are stressful. Didn't have anything

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Speaker 1: to do with like your upbringing or I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a pretty conservative religious household, but even then, like

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Speaker 1: my parents were very pro me, I just didn't have

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Speaker 1: any language to even figure out those feelings. Like I

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Speaker 1: remember looking up gay and homosexual in the dictionary or

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Speaker 1: the encyclopedia. We had an extensive encyclopedia and just not

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Speaker 1: much information there. I used to look up the word

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Speaker 1: penis in a dictionary me when I was like, probably

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Speaker 1: who has You're a little freak, I used to. I

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Speaker 1: had this elaborate plan. My friend Jade and I we

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Speaker 1: both had such a big crush on Ashton Kutcher and

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Speaker 1: we're both socially very weird. So we convinced our teacher,

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Speaker 1: who was like a very young nice teacher for America guy,

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Speaker 1: like we should be able to stay inside and google

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Speaker 1: things during recess because we don't like going outside because

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Speaker 1: we're losers. And he was like, okay, plenty well taken,

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Speaker 1: stay inside and google things. And so we just google

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Speaker 1: Ashton Kutcher nude frantically for days on end, just waiting

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Speaker 1: for the right photoshop to look realistic enough for us

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Speaker 1: to believe never happens. I saw this movie for the

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Speaker 1: first time. I think I was like a freshman in college. Um,

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Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine recommended to me, and

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Speaker 1: I was a young film major at the time, so

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Speaker 1: I was like, of course, I'll watch any movie. And

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Speaker 1: I remember liking a lot, thinking was really funny, and

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Speaker 1: I saw this movie and saved within I think probably

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Speaker 1: like a few months of each other, and I was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed them both. Me rewatching, but I'm a cheerleader

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Speaker 1: for this podcast. Is the first time I've seen it

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Speaker 1: in a long time, and I forgot how fun it

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Speaker 1: was and like just how visually interesting it is visually

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Speaker 1: so I had the style of this movie is so

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Speaker 1: cool and I didn't know that I saw this movie

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Speaker 1: before I knew who RuPaul was, so I totally forgot

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Speaker 1: he was in it, and I kind of did too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his character is so funny. He's great. And I saw

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Speaker 1: this movie. For those of you who are playing Bettel

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Speaker 1: cast Bingo out there, if we had Bingo boards recently anyways,

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Speaker 1: if anyone's got their Bengo board out there, I did

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Speaker 1: see this movie this morning and I loved it. I

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Speaker 1: really liked this movie. There's definitely stuff to talk about

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Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed. And just like from a visual standpoye,

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Speaker 1: this movie is so cool in the way it uses

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Speaker 1: like a very specific color palette and just I really

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Speaker 1: like it. And the director of this movie. For we

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Speaker 1: jump into queer female director Jamie Babbitt, who when I

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Speaker 1: started doing research on her, I was like, this name

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Speaker 1: looks really familiar to me, and I can't figure out why.

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Speaker 1: I directed almost every TV in existing. My favorite episodes

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Speaker 1: of Gilmore Girls were directed by this woman. She directed

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Speaker 1: United States of Tara Diablo Cody Show. She's directing a

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Speaker 1: lot of Silicon Valley. That's like Aaron right now, Like

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Speaker 1: she's she's legit. She this was her first movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was her first movie and it was just like

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Speaker 1: pretty impressive. She also um she directed, and then the

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Speaker 1: movie was produced by her I think then girlfriend who

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Speaker 1: she later married but also then divorced, Andrea Sperling because

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Speaker 1: she's now married to Carrie dornetto also a major I

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Speaker 1: think producer in Hollywood. Ever heard of it? All the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood heads out there are frothing now anyway. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's part of the fun of watching this movie. It

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Speaker 1: was like learning more about her and she seems so

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Speaker 1: fucking cool. She directed my favorite episode of Gilmore Girls ever,

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Speaker 1: which for all you Gilmore Girls sets out there, is

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Speaker 1: Take the Deviled Eggs. She's really funny. Thank you, just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of Jamie trivia for you. So yes,

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Speaker 1: this is an example of a movie about queer people

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Speaker 1: made by queer people. Oftentimes we encounter movies where there's

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Speaker 1: like maybe one gay character. They're usually sidelined, we hardly

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Speaker 1: know anything about them, and the movie was made by

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Speaker 1: a bunch of straight people. You can tell the execution

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Speaker 1: is three usually pretty they show their hand pretty quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'll do the recap. Let's do it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: but I'm a cheerleader. It's about a character named Megan

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Speaker 1: played by Natasha Laone, and she is a cheerleader and

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Speaker 1: she has a boyfriend who when she makes out with him,

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Speaker 1: she is picturing not him, but instead a lot of

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Speaker 1: boobs and cheerleaders doing flips and butts and all kinds

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Speaker 1: of non men body parts. Um, but she a very

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Speaker 1: accurate description and guessing. So she goes home and her

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Speaker 1: parents are like, um, hey, we're about to have an

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Speaker 1: intervention because we're pretty sure you're a lesbian. And she's like, what, No,

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Speaker 1: I'm not, and they're like, no, we're pretty sure. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a really funny sequence where they're like gay

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Speaker 1: iconography and there's like a Melissa Average post bluster and

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Speaker 1: they're like, and you're a vegetarian and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: make us eat tofu and you only ever have pictures

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Speaker 1: of girls in your locker. I love how they basically

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Speaker 1: do describe the like you seem like, I'm pretty good

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Speaker 1: and ethical person. Therefore, we are sending you away. Right.

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Speaker 1: So her parents are we can imagine, kind of conservative Christians.

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Speaker 1: There's also the vaginal pillow. The vaginal pillow, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that should have been an open and chut case

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Speaker 1: right there. She lays her head down and it's just like, oh, okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: continue as well. The first time we see the parents,

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Speaker 1: they're basically praying that she's not gay. So it's like, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got some conservative religious parents. She's just in the dark.

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Speaker 1: She's like, this prayer is very specific, is a very

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Speaker 1: specific prayer. So they have an intervention and basically like,

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Speaker 1: you're a lesbian and we don't want you to be,

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Speaker 1: so we're going to send you to something called True Directions,

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Speaker 1: which is a camp slash rehabilitation center to effectively turn

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Speaker 1: gay youth into hetero youth. So they sent her away

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Speaker 1: and she is reluctant, and she still does not acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that she is gay. She thinks she is straight. And

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Speaker 1: then so the facility is run by some named Mary,

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Speaker 1: and she has what is clearly a gay. Moriarty one

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Speaker 1: of the best character actors ever. Loved her work in

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Speaker 1: Casper and I love the scenes where her voice is

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Speaker 1: just like thirteen octaves lower than you're expecting. You're just

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Speaker 1: like canthy. Moriarty basically is a cigarette and she is

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Speaker 1: so amazing. I love her so much. She's she's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we meet her and her son named Rock, who

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Speaker 1: we can assume reference to Rock Hudson. Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't pick up on that, but yes, so I think

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Speaker 1: we can assume that she has tried to turn what

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Speaker 1: is clearly her gay son also into a straight person,

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Speaker 1: and it is working to not great effect. She basically

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Speaker 1: keeps him in a doghouse. It's crazy, but he's always

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Speaker 1: like pulling on chainsaws and just like jerking off a rake,

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Speaker 1: and all the dudes are an erotic housekeeper like her landscaper.

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Speaker 1: It's just I love Rock Rock Ros. So Megan meets

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Speaker 1: she meets all of her peers, who are other young

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Speaker 1: people whose parents have been like, you're gay, and we

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Speaker 1: don't like it, so we're going to try to turn

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Speaker 1: you straight. At this camp. The first step is to

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Speaker 1: like acknowledge that they are homosexual, and then they have

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Speaker 1: to figure out what their root is, like why they

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Speaker 1: have denied themselves of a heterosexual lifestyle. So there's all

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Speaker 1: these different steps they have to go through. And Megan

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Speaker 1: meets Graham played by Claia Duval and they who is

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Speaker 1: my root? Like, yes, she's also the person who in

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Speaker 1: She's all that tells what's her face to to kill

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Speaker 1: herself and ion lots of iconic claim mamas. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: the worst vectoral tests passing scene of all time is

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Speaker 1: clay as all motivated, where she's like, you could actually

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Speaker 1: kill yourself and say that it's like they had names. Yikes.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so Megan meets Graham, and Graham is a

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Speaker 1: little you know, she's kind of hardened, and she smoked

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Speaker 1: cigarettes and she swears and all this stuff. Also the

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Speaker 1: only character who doesn't apologize for being gay when we're

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Speaker 1: introduced to her basically yeah, which kind of changes letters.

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Speaker 1: So they get a little closer and they get a

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Speaker 1: little friendlier, and then they eventually develop a romantic relationship. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: all the people who are running the camp, one of

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Speaker 1: them being the character Mike played by RuPaul, who is

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Speaker 1: an ex gay. They're like, I used to be gay,

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Speaker 1: but then I turned hetero. From the camp and even

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Speaker 1: though it's like the gayest campable the time, it's oh god,

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Speaker 1: I love the graduation office, which is raincoat fabric. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: wearing raincoat, yes or something. You're just like, this is

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Speaker 1: a music video, Like it's just it's it's incredible. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: then Graham and Megan are like, let's run away together

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Speaker 1: because like, this whole thing is bullshit. Like you you,

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Speaker 1: you are who you are, you like who you like.

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Speaker 1: You can't change that. And a lot of the characters

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Speaker 1: do recognize this, but because of the press sure from

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Speaker 1: their parents and society, they are, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: deny who they are and adhere to society's norms. And

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Speaker 1: by the end, Megan's like, I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: this fun this like I like what I like, and

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Speaker 1: I like girls, and I like cheerleading and I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to apologize for that. She gets kicked out of

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Speaker 1: the camp because she and Graham get caught kissing, so

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Speaker 1: she gets kicked out, and then she's like, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe Graham didn't come with me. So she goes back

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Speaker 1: and effectively kind of rescues her from the graduation ceremony,

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Speaker 1: just this whole cheer and then finally Graham because what's

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Speaker 1: at stake for Graham is that she won't get to

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Speaker 1: go to college or get her trust fund or anything

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Speaker 1: like that because she comes from like a wealthy family. Right.

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Speaker 1: But then she realizes like, yeah, fun this, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: embrace who I am and be with Megans that they

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Speaker 1: run off together and that's pretty much the end. Also

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Speaker 1: a movie that ends with two women scaling offense and escaping.

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Speaker 1: Where usually the when we cover movies in this podcast,

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Speaker 1: it's a man jumping over a fence to surprise a woman.

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Speaker 1: This is two women escaping. Consensually big moment for fences. Normally,

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Speaker 1: fences really get the shaft totally in film. Check out

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Speaker 1: the movie Fences and it's been a plug for five

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Speaker 1: Fences on iTunes. I haven't seen it seemed pretty well received.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean it's an example of a movie

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Speaker 1: that is based on a play, which are almost always

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Speaker 1: extremely boring because it's nine dialect for doubt, just the

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Speaker 1: greatest movie of all time. It's really good. Anyway back

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Speaker 1: to but I'm a cheerleader, so but I'm doubt, But

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Speaker 1: I have a doubt, but I have such a doubt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the story of but I'm a cheerleader. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to talk about in this movie because it,

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Speaker 1: more than most movies, explore wars, gender identity, sexuality, societal expectations, heteronormativity,

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Speaker 1: Like there's a lot going on here. Yeah, it's also

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Speaker 1: real stylistic like it has. It really does have its

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Speaker 1: own look and feel, And if you want to have fun,

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Speaker 1: you should go back and read movie reviews of this movie,

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Speaker 1: done mostly by straight people, largely summed up by like,

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Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't why they made a

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Speaker 1: lot of choices. I didn't understand that it could have

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Speaker 1: been more gay. It was a popular one, and Roger

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Speaker 1: Ebert in his review is literally like someone told me

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Speaker 1: that these camps actually exist. That's crazy. I was just like, thanks, Rob.

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Speaker 1: He's like, it doesn't make sense because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, you always choose what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Roger, he also hated Josie in

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Speaker 1: The Pussycat, so fuck him. But he Rogerie, I feel like,

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Speaker 1: we mean it makes sense because he is the movie

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Speaker 1: critic or whatever. But for the most part, I feel

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Speaker 1: like whenever we're addressing his reviews on this podcast, it's

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Speaker 1: because he has a bad take. I'm just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you hate this movie that ten years on literally everyone loves.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's maybe he died from embarrassment. We can perhaps

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Speaker 1: the most scathing take ever on this podcast, Roger Yevert

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Speaker 1: died of badcasts of bad takes. I'm pretty sure it's

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Speaker 1: cancer big criticism, And again most of the criticism is

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Speaker 1: coming from straight mail movie critics. But a lot of this,

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Speaker 1: like the satire is heavy handed. It's like what else

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Speaker 1: would it be, Like you're trying to fit these kids

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Speaker 1: into this like very strict gender identity. They've pushed it

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Speaker 1: not even that much to the extreme, because like when

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Speaker 1: you think about it, like true headed ordativity is pretty extreme,

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Speaker 1: and so like get this very like polarized idea that

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Speaker 1: they're trying to inflict on it. It's like it's always

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Speaker 1: going to be heavy handed, like because that's what they're

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Speaker 1: ultimately trying to achieve, is this perfect, unachievable, absurd ideal

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Speaker 1: quotes of gender roles. And so it was such a

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Speaker 1: weird criticism here. Yeah, I mean the movie is a

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Speaker 1: clear satire, but I feel like a lot of like

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Speaker 1: people are like, what's happening? Why is it so pink?

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Speaker 1: And like I love the scenes where Mary is teaching

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Speaker 1: the girls how to like vacuum the carpet and paint

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Speaker 1: each other's nails, and and then like Rue Paul is

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Speaker 1: teaching the men how to chop wood and fix a car.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, I like how war is part of

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Speaker 1: the mail. It's so funny, like but it's like from

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Speaker 1: a satirical that's so funny. Also, the post, like the

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Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels post they make right before they like charge

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Speaker 1: the hill with like fake guns. It's just like this is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this could be like overtly explores what is considered very

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Speaker 1: stereotypical gender roles that most movies don't bother looking at

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Speaker 1: or examining or anything like that, and it's just so

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Speaker 1: funny like when you do look at it from such

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Speaker 1: a satirical point of view, where it's like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: teach boys that they should know how to fix cars

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Speaker 1: and play football and chop a piece of wood and

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Speaker 1: shoot a gun, and we teach girls that their main

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Speaker 1: job is to maintain a household and clean and wash

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Speaker 1: a dish. Like the like those these are so funny

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Speaker 1: and if you don't realize how absurd the gender roles

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Speaker 1: that we are inflicting on people even today, how they're

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Speaker 1: so silly and outdated and crazy, Like of course you're

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Speaker 1: not going to recognize that is satire, and of course

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh, this is this movie. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't get it. I know it doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: but and like the satire of like the scene they're

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Speaker 1: all with the family and they're looking for what Megan's

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Speaker 1: root is and Kathy Marie already just goes out on

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Speaker 1: a limb to the point where the parents are I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: of course you only care about it when you're sort

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Speaker 1: of being insulted, Like your daughter can be insulted and

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Speaker 1: you can send her away to be dislike completely flips

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Speaker 1: their own gender norms on them, right, Like you're the reason.

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Speaker 1: It's like, wait that right, They're like, it was only

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Speaker 1: nine months because Becau, I saw my mom working and

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Speaker 1: my dad wasn't working, and that's what probably made me gay.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like that, it's a it's a funny

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Speaker 1: sick burn. So Jenny, I'm curious because I think this

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Speaker 1: is the first movie we've done on the podcast that

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Speaker 1: features a predominantly queer cast of characters. If I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 1: it's a very good debut. That's a good movie to

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Speaker 1: open with. So I'm curious. I can only speak to

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Speaker 1: so much as a unfortunately hetero person. Um, So I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, And all her press clippings, Calin is

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Speaker 1: referred to as the tragically hetero. So I'm curious, Jenny,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel the like representation of lesbian characters

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Speaker 1: is in queerness in general, is in this movie. I

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Speaker 1: personally really enjoyed it because at its heart was a comedy. Again,

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Speaker 1: I grew up pretty sheltered, pretty like not realized that

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Speaker 1: I was gay, didn't have many clues to go on

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Speaker 1: in my mind, but like what I was exposed to

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Speaker 1: was just TV and film, most of which very depressing. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you're just trying to like figure out what gayness

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Speaker 1: is through movie and TV, it's pretty bleak. It's like,

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Speaker 1: even when sometimes there's a gay and lesbian directors or writers,

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Speaker 1: it'll be about you know, history or bullying or something,

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Speaker 1: all very important subjects, but terrifying if you're just in

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Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere being like that doesn't look like

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Speaker 1: any fun So I won't go further with this. Don't

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Speaker 1: like no levity in the way queer characters are. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I like to start it with chaotic and funny.

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Speaker 1: I responded to that at the time more than the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's like, oh, there's good representation, because I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't even know the deficit that I

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Speaker 1: was experiencing of like gay figures in media. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a problem for a lot of like people who

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Speaker 1: belong to marginalized group like because representation is so bad

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Speaker 1: for anyone who's not a straight, cis, white, able bodied

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Speaker 1: man in media historically throughout all the years, like I

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Speaker 1: grew up loving so many movies that treated women so

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Speaker 1: horribly because that's really all there was. And we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a positive trend of and it's not anywhere close to

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Speaker 1: being perfect or even good yet, but um a trend

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Speaker 1: toward better representation, more inclusion, where people who historically have

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Speaker 1: really never seen themselves represented on screen or finally seeing

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Speaker 1: more and better representations of themselves free. I mean, and

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Speaker 1: again this is I'm in a similar predicament, is you, Caitlin?

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Speaker 1: Where I am the terminally hetero Jamie Lofton, but the

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Speaker 1: upsettingly straight Jamie Loftons. Like this seems to me like

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Speaker 1: a very kind of like open and close case of

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Speaker 1: just like, yeah, you can make a really effective satire

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Speaker 1: about queerness if you give the reins to a queer

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Speaker 1: director and writer who knows what she's talking about, and

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Speaker 1: then it's like punching down to the right people. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, the same thing is happening in like Black

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Speaker 1: Panther or like Wonder Woman, where it's just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it can be like this, Like we all know repectel

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Speaker 1: Gast listeners know like representation is lacking, but when you

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Speaker 1: finally see a movie where that comes together, you're just like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, it's it's exciting. Yeah, and there is like

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Speaker 1: there it's this movie is like ultimately a sat tire,

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Speaker 1: but it's like well done because it's written by someone

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Speaker 1: who has perspective. I read an interview that Jamie Babott

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Speaker 1: did around this time and she was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was aware of these camps and like had heard all

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and then I wasn't aware of the extent

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Speaker 1: of the practices at the camp where when you see

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Speaker 1: it in a satire. You're like, there's no way there

400
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: was electric shock. There absolutely was electric shock. This was

401
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: a pretty benign representation. And it's still like yikes, yeah, yeah,

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00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: and I don't know what I mean, and like that's

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Speaker 1: so not cool that it happened, but cool that it's

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Speaker 1: represented in this very creative, interesting, stylized way. And I

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Speaker 1: also wanted to So this movie was directed by Jamie Babbitt,

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Speaker 1: written though by Brian So She also had a story

407
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: by credit, but the screenwriter was Brian Peterson, who I

408
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: tried to do some more research on. I couldn't find

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Speaker 1: a whole ton about him, so I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he commune somewhere right, So I was like, Okay, is

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Speaker 1: he gay or he is he? Oh? He is? He

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Speaker 1: is gay. I would be very surprised if the person

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Speaker 1: who wrote this movie was not gay. He is from

414
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Speaker 1: when I'm saying he's gay himself and had some experience

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Speaker 1: of conversion therapy while working at a prison clinic for

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Speaker 1: sex offenders. Holy shit. Variety named him one of ten

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Speaker 1: screenwriters to watch another thing about him. I probably I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to be on that list as well for

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Speaker 1: having anyway break that screenwriter. So heys out of the closet.

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Speaker 1: He is a core screenwriter as well, but this did

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Speaker 1: seem to be thoroughly Jamie Babbitt's story that she was

422
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: also direct. Definitely. Yeah. I think it's also helpful that

423
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: there's more stable gay characters, Like for the men and women,

424
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: there's like a spectrum of like femine butch men and women.

425
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: Like if there's just one gay character in a movie,

426
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: that gay character has to represent all of LGBT queer

427
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: people and that's impractical. So I think it was helpful

428
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: that there were just a zillion different types of you know,

429
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: even just people in the closet and not in the closet. Yeah,

430
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: I think that the representation could be better considering that

431
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: all of the women in the camp, maybe all but one,

432
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: were white. I think Jan was a person of color.

433
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: Jan is terminally ambiguous, like in every aspect of her life,

434
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: and God bless her. I believe that. Yeah. Yeah, well

435
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: that's like an amazing satirical move for people who don't

436
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: get it, we're watching this movie of like here's a

437
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: very painful outing as someone as straight. You know, it's

438
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: like that's so funny and absurd. But also for I

439
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: like imagine my dad who is progressive but doesn't totally

440
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: get it and seeing something like that and being like, oh, okay,

441
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, like that is like sort of like for

442
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: people who want to understand but don't quite get. I meant,

443
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: can funk with straight people too, Like I mean, if

444
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure both of you have been accused of not

445
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: being you know, oh, I've been determinally I've been assumed

446
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: to be or asked if I was a lesbian on

447
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: so many occasions in my life. I'm just like, I'm not,

448
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: but I you're blessed moment. In fact, my mom, so

449
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: there was a large span of time that has gone

450
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: on even longer by now. But when I was in

451
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: college that side time works, but I'm saying it never changed.

452
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: So and when I was in college, my mom a

453
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: few different times asked me if I was a lesbian

454
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: because I never had a boyfriend, which is a very

455
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: heteronormative assumption to make. It's like, oh, well, if you

456
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: don't have a boyfriend, it must be because you're gay,

457
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: And it's like no, because I'm emotionally damaged and don't

458
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: understand emotional intimacy. Mom. But yeah, so my mom's like,

459
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, it would be okay if you were and

460
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: I was to love you and you can come out

461
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 1: to me and all this stuff. And I'm just like,

462
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: I know that to be true, and if I was gay,

463
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: I would definitely tell you. I'm simply not. I'm simply

464
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: just a damaged person who does not know how to

465
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 1: connect with people emotionally. Well, that's very much queer culture.

466
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: So I'm basically my dad my yeah, my parent. This

467
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 1: is not gonna make my dad looks very good. I

468
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: was in the g s A all of high school,

469
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: the Gay Straight Alliance, and I identified as S. But

470
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: if you're in the g s A in like an

471
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: urban high school, most people just are like g It's

472
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: like but also what if my dad would be like, yeah,

473
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: it is the Gay Straight Alne really ignores a lot

474
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: of people in the queer community. But anyway, this was

475
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: a long time ago now, but I mean I was.

476
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: It was the only like that, and you know all

477
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: the other clubs I was in also, like Drama Club

478
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: in bad Also, I thought you were going to be

479
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: like Amis International, which is obviously dipping your toe into

480
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: going to the Gay Straightler there I was. I was

481
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: in the g s A all through high school and

482
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: my dad, you know, my parents were always like very

483
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: supportive of whatever I wanted to do. But my dad

484
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: would just be like, it's Jamie's gay Monday because he

485
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: had picked me up from the g s A thing,

486
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: Jamie's gay Monday Monday, and so every Monday he'd be like,

487
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: how is game Monday, Jamie. I was like, it was good.

488
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: We had productive discussion. It's like my gay little Jamie

489
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, fine, you know, and I

490
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: didn't fully get g s A um, but it was fun.

491
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't know recommend it's any such a weird relationship. Also,

492
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: Massa Chusetts was the first state to legalize gay marriage,

493
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: but also such a fucking weird state on every level.

494
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all that's where we all met, and

495
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: what a strange place where you can't Like, my dad

496
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: was fully accepting of me. This is peak New England,

497
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: fully accepting of me participating in the g s A.

498
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: Did have to call me get Jamie h gay Jamie's

499
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: gay Mondays, which is down like like if it is

500
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: the weird? Yeah, well, I so I grew up in

501
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: a as you know, a very small rural Pennsylvania town

502
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: where any sort of thing that wasn't had her own

503
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: normative was thought to be very evil and gross and horrible. Like,

504
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: it was a very conservative area, and to my knowledge,

505
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: there were no out gay people in my high school.

506
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: There were certainly gay people, but none of them felt

507
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: comfortable with being out. But when I got to college,

508
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: I soon met someone who to become my best friends

509
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: the cast Twilight episode. He would go to gay parties

510
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: all the time and bring me with him. I was like,

511
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: this is such a cool culture, and straight culture is

512
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: still fucking boring, and to the extent where I was

513
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: like all of the screenplays I was writing in film school. Again,

514
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: I did go to college and then grad school to

515
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: get a master's screen screen running from Boston University. Yeah.

516
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever mentioned that before. M Yeah. Yeah,

517
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: So anyway, all the screenplays I was writing were about

518
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: gay characters, which like, as a straight person, problematic, But

519
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, I was just like, I was so

520
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: fascinated by the culture and really just wanted everyone to

521
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: know that I was an ally. It's all I mean,

522
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's so weird because it's like

523
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: that this is like the fairly recent past. But I

524
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: feel like discourse and you have shifted so rapidly now

525
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: that it's like I mean, I think about my attitudes

526
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: towards gay culture and like how yeah, like hyped, I

527
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: was on it in like high school and like that

528
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: probably was not but also at that time, I don't know.

529
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: It's a tricky, tricky area to Yeah, I mean, it

530
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: takes a little while to figure out how to talk

531
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: about things, especially if you haven't done it in the past.

532
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think people give themselves a little

533
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: too much slack for not getting it right out the gate.

534
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: But like, gay culture is awesome. Everyone should have queer friends.

535
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: If you don't, you're missing out. And gay parties are

536
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: better than real parties. Yeah, smell way better. Straight parties

537
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: smell like straight up. I don't know one of the

538
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: things I wanted to talk about. So this podcast is

539
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: called the Becto Cast. You probably didn't know that. Again, Jamie,

540
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here to I need to like get some

541
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: self esteem. Like it's so stupid things I need. The

542
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: puppy has explained to me every single time we'd do it. Oh,

543
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: anything work. But there are a number of other cinematic

544
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: tests that you can apply to media, aside from the

545
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: backto tests that examine representation of other things. And one

546
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: of the things that I think has come up every

547
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: once in a while, but I would like to explore

548
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: it more and it is certainly relevant for this movie

549
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: is the Vito Russo test, which was named after Vito Russo,

550
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: a celebrated film historian and the co founder of GLAD

551
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: and wrote a book The Celluloid Closet, which remains a

552
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: foundational analysis of LGBTQ portrayals of Hollywood film. A movie

553
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: passes the Vito Russo test if it contains a character

554
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: that is identifiably lgbt Q, that character is not solely

555
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: or predominantly defined by their sexual orientation or gender identity,

556
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: and the character must be tied to the plot in

557
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: such a way that their removal would have a significant

558
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: impact on the story. Yeah, most movies don't even come

559
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: anywhere close to passing the Veto test. Certainly this movie

560
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: on we've done on the podcast. I don't think you

561
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: asked this question on Twitter and I was just firing

562
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: off like replies, and then I realized that all the

563
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: movies that I was saying they were just subtext gays,

564
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: where I was just like a lot of them were

565
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: Michelle Rodriguez movies. But uh so I wasn't completely wrong,

566
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize until literally that I had like

567
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: an existential meltdown where it was like all those movies

568
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: were just like they were just coded gay, and so

569
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: I just counted it so right because a lot of

570
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: movies will We talked about this, for example on the

571
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: episode about the Rock, where there is that stylist character

572
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: who is coded as gay doesn't necessarily identify himself as

573
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: being gay. Well, and then we get into a lot

574
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: of trope villain characters, so we are obviously removing Jaffar.

575
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: Sorry that I always go straight to Jaffar, but I

576
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: do have a crush on him, and it's never going

577
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: to happen. She's a gay icon, right, He's a gay

578
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: icon and also a cartoon who is not real. So

579
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: it's just never going to happen with me in Jaffar.

580
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: H But but like, obviously you removed Jaffar, the plot

581
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: is impacted, but there, but it's yeah, totally codd right,

582
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: We're right, yeah, and I mean and vilified exactly like yeah,

583
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: the villains across the border often coded right, Yeah, Disney

584
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: has a horrid history of this. And then yeah, I know,

585
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: but it's like, but then the characters are so dope.

586
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: The last time I went to Disneyland, I didn't know that.

587
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: It was like it was a gay day at Zealand

588
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: where there was like a massive meet up of LGBT

589
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: people at Disneyland, and it was like suddenly away better

590
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: day that I was originally going to have. It was

591
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: like everyone's like, it was just so exciting, the energy

592
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: was it selected, especially once it got to be nighttime

593
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: and people can start drinking. I was like, this is

594
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: the greatest Disneyland experience of all time. So great. Yeah.

595
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk about this movie, but I'm

596
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: a cheerleader in relation to the Vito Russo test, because

597
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: let's explore this, because the movie definitely has characters who

598
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: are identifiably l g B t Q. The caveat of

599
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: the Vito Russo tests that says that a character is

600
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: not solely or predominantly defined by their sexual orientation or

601
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: gender identity, I think is where we'll get into a

602
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: little bit of gray area. Because the whole movie is

603
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: about whether or not, like these characters being gay and

604
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: having to because of this camp they're in try to

605
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: deny themselves of their sexual orientation. So it's it's the

606
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: whole story is really tied in their and their characters

607
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: are really tied into the fact that they are gay.

608
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: So I don't know, do you have a I feel

609
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: like like Mary and the camp are way more obsessed

610
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: with their gayness and gender identity than the actual characters.

611
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: Like when you get down to it, you remember, Graham

612
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: is more like standoffish and like snobbish, and you know,

613
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: Megan is just like, you know, this wholesome, like they

614
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: all have personalities outside of and like even Megan's outing,

615
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: like her intervention, like it was absurd, Like they were

616
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: just like you have this poster in your room. It's like, well,

617
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything. And so I don't know. I

618
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: think they're gayness definitely comes into it, but I don't

619
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: think they're just solely defined by Yeah, like you can

620
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: say other things about these characters totally. Yeah, And by

621
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: the end of the movie, because I was wondering that

622
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: a little bit too, but them by the end of

623
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: the movie, I feel like there's that line that like,

624
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: there's not just one way to be a lesbian. You

625
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: have to continue to be who you are. Where that

626
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: point is made pretty explicitly of just like there's not

627
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: one way, you just continue to be yourself. The character

628
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: is saying that as he's handing her mom that just

629
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: as queer. It was like, is this commentary or just

630
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: a rogue props? Masters like, there's a there's many ways

631
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: to be a queer person. Now drink from this mug

632
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: that Yeah, I don't know. I mean, every character in

633
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: this movie, I feel like has a discernible personality one

634
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: way or another. And also Cathy Moriarity's character is gay,

635
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: are we That was my I don't know. I mean,

636
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. I To me, I was struggling. I

637
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: was like, is this just a cathe moriarity vibe I'm getting?

638
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: Is this is this her having like internalized homophobia? To me,

639
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: it read as her son Rock presents as gay and

640
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: she basically started this whole camp to be like I

641
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: have to convert my son into being a HEATERO, and hey,

642
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: if I can do it with my son, I can

643
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: do it with anyone. So like, I feel like this

644
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: whole thing is built around the fact that she doesn't

645
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: like that she has a gay son, and that's why. Yeah,

646
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: she's addict and she's not great at being a woman

647
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: like she does. She has to have plastic flowers, so

648
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: she's not actually tending to anything, and everything is plastic

649
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: over it. She can't keep anything clean at very least.

650
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: She is like intense internalized misogyny because she's just like

651
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: rubbed the floors. Yeah the boy. Now, I was reading

652
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: brag the Wikipedia page about this movie, and I don't

653
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: know if this was the I can't remember this was

654
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: exactly the intent of the filmmakers or if it was

655
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: just something that people are like, hey, this her Basically,

656
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: her character can be seen as the sort of panic

657
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: surrounding the AIDS crisis, and because she's so obsessed with

658
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: cleanliness and all of that stuff, where she's sort of

659
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: symbolizes like the panic around AIDS. And for sure, they

660
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: don't sleep on that. Like when they're protesting, it's like

661
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: eight skills baggets there. They're when they're folding napkins at

662
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: the gay men's home, there's like AIDS ribbon on the napkin,

663
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: Like yeah, no, you're totally right. I wanted to touch

664
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: a little bit more on the representation of um. Also

665
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: on the Wikipedia page about this movie, Jamie Babbitt was

666
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: saying how she like deliberately cast a lot of the roles,

667
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: and it seems to be this is especially true for

668
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: the men who were at true directions, not necessarily as

669
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: much for the women. But she did put a conscious

670
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: effort in casting people of color in the different roles,

671
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: because the characters of Mike, Dolph, and Andre are all

672
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: people of color. But um, I feel like, I don't know,

673
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: it just it struck me as a little weird that

674
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: the like the love story between Megan and Graham, it's

675
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: still very white, and I feel like I think that

676
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: if this movie was made today, we would see a

677
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: little bit more representation of people of color. Yeah, Like,

678
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: I think she definitely did try and go out of

679
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: her way to cast people of color, I think back then.

680
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: So there's probably some people it's like this is too much,

681
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: but yeah, I know, like, oh, actually, on that note,

682
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: um it says that bad Bit did briefly consider Rosario

683
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: Dawson for the role as of Megan, but the executive

684
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: producer persuaded her the Dawson, who is Latina, would not

685
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: be right for the quote unquote all American cheerleader Rosario

686
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: Dawson is now on Jane the Virgin in a lesbian

687
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: relations she is it's really good, Like I love Jane

688
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: the vision of my favorite TV show and so underrated.

689
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: I love it so much. Is not everyone in the

690
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: entire I've seen all of Jane the Vergon. Rosario Dawson

691
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: is also just killing it in that role. Just a

692
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: footnote that she couldn't have known. Tara Dawson plays a

693
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: great lesbian true ally. I also wanted to ask Jenny

694
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: Um about how how you feel about straight actors playing

695
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: gay characters on screen. I do not have a problem

696
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: with it, you know, I don't think it's uh again,

697
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: gay isn't like a personality. I think it is a

698
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: little different for transactors, but I think across the board,

699
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: like this wouldn't be an issue if they were any

700
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: part of LGBT were just cast regularly and not just

701
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: like across the board like passed over for gay or

702
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: not gay straight roller like, but like they are being

703
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: shut out, and I think that's it's just part of

704
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: It's like what we can't even play gay characters like

705
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: it's it's more that rather than like gay people are

706
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: the only people who can play gay characters, which I

707
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: just it's not true. Like, um, I have a little

708
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: SoundBite from Natasha Leon more recent because she's played several

709
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: queer characters, but it is straight, but it identifies as straight.

710
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: But then also tags that by saying, mind you, when

711
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: I say I'm not gay, it doesn't mean that I've

712
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: never tried sleeping with women. Of course I have. I'm

713
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: not a dumb, dumb fun time but she but there's

714
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: also uh, she she talks about like they're like, you're

715
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of like a queer icon, but you don't identify

716
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: as queer, and then she responded. This is a New

717
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: York Times interview from a year and a half ago.

718
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: She said, I never want to feel like I'm taking

719
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: ownership of an experience that's not my own. But it

720
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of the female experiences in response

721
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: to men, and when I play a lesbian character, it

722
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: means that she's on her own ride. I love men,

723
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: I want to sleep with as many as possible, but

724
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: I don't want my whole life and certainly my creative experience,

725
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: to be in response to just being the girl like

726
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: who needs it, and then she says she sleeps with

727
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 1: him because she's not a dumb dumb So yeah, I

728
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: I always I wonder. Part of me thinks that it

729
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: always kind of felt a little weird or wrong when

730
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: straight actors would play gay characters, because there runs a

731
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: big risk of them misrepresenting. Sure, and some people have

732
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: said some really dumb stuff after playing a gay character,

733
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: like but and like, I would also like to have

734
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: some LGBT slash queer actors that I can be like

735
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: hell yeah and root for them, because right now a

736
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: lot of queer icons are straight, and that is frustrating.

737
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: I don't think the answer is I don't know. I

738
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: hope that we can get to a point where gay

739
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: actors can just be cast in any role, not like

740
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: they they're seeing. Some of that was briefly a straight icon, toxic,

741
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity icon, interesting subversion, so straight that for a

742
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: while I was just like enough enough that it's like

743
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: you're hurting people. Rolled back, there be a book about

744
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: how to use women Neil Patrick's picture on which there was, Oh,

745
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: but like, Jenelle Manee is out there doing some awesome

746
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: stuff in terms of everyone of her new songs. I'm

747
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: just like, oh what a gift, and gift hasn't like

748
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga said, like, I only write songs for gay people.

749
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: Sure that makes sense. Um. I hope to one day

750
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: be a queer icon as a hope tragically strangers where

751
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: I still want to be a queer tragic where tragically

752
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: heteroical where icon. I recently lost my job, so in

753
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: order to grieve, I went to Vegas this weekend for

754
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: lesbian sci fi convention Clexicon. It was just a bunch

755
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: of lesbians running a buck in Vegas and a bunch

756
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: of shows that have had lesbian pairings and romances and

757
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: characters were all represented there. There's second con and it

758
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: was huge, so it's been a huge success. And all

759
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: the actresses were actors. Sorry, I guess that's reductive as well.

760
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: All the actors, all women who were there were just

761
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: like treated like royalty because they just represented these people

762
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: and people are thirsty for just seeing something up there.

763
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: But it was a pretty cool place to be. I

764
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: just you know, throw that out there, good good Vegas weekend. Yeah, yeah,

765
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: it was. It was pretty cool, very gay, very gay weekend.

766
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: It was clear Duval and Natasha ly and also played

767
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: a couple on screen in a movie, Clear Duval, who

768
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: does identify as queer. They played a couple on screen

769
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: in a movie. Clear d All wrote like last year, Yes,

770
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: what's it called The Intervention? Yes? Yes, yes, I reading

771
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: and I want to see it. Yeah. Same, So back

772
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 1: to but I'm a Cheerleader? Oh yeah this movie. Sorry

773
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: so for but I'm a Cheerleader. It was initially rated

774
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: by the m p a a As and the director

775
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 1: made cuts to allow it to be re rated. Are

776
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: But the reason that it was rated NC seventeen was

777
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: a couple of things, like it had nothing even really

778
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: graphic or anything like that. It was just like a

779
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: mention of a woman going down on another woman. This

780
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: movie is hell of vanilla when you actually the only

781
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: sex scene is it's like kind of boringly tasteful. There's

782
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: not that much happening, and yeah, it's it's sometimes can't

783
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: even tell what body Park is being like, yeah, they're like, oh,

784
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of skin and right, so it's

785
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: a PG thirteen sex scene totally. But because of society

786
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: and how we hold gay things to a different standard,

787
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: m p a A was like, because it's two women

788
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: in a homosexual sex scene. It's so obscene and so

789
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: graphic that we have to give it in an NC

790
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: seventeen riting. I suspect it's a double whammy where it's

791
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: gay and female pleasure. Yeah. Uh. She masturbates halfway through, right,

792
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: she does over the clothes, but still she's obviously Natasha

793
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: Leon's masturbation facial expressions. I'm just like, have you masturbated before?

794
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 1: Most people don't turn into cartoon characters. She also has

795
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: like eyes that are like one third of her face.

796
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: She is very but her eyes were like she would

797
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: like poke at her own vagina and then her eyes

798
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: would roll back into her head. I'm like, this is

799
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: an interesting She's also like vaguely praying. I think as

800
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: she's okay, this is a terrible realization to have. Oh,

801
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm very hard in the game. So that was one

802
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: of the scenes in the movie that didn't quite I

803
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: don't know if it did track for me or I

804
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: just like found it odd where she had just had

805
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: a sex dream where she was kissing Clara to Ball's character.

806
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: She goes into the room a different room and starts masturbating,

807
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: but then sees two men kissing and then says gross,

808
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: and then she basically rats them out. So she wrats

809
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: out her fellow, she's a snitch, and then no one

810
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: gives her any shit about it. They're just like mom, Like,

811
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: I felt like there should be some aftermath a little

812
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: shit about it. But I think it's part of the

813
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: thing where it's like all of them are so scared,

814
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: all of them are trying to be Yeah, I mean,

815
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: it didn't take much to push her over the edge

816
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: and be like, oh that is someone else. It's where

817
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: it's like you're experiencing the same things, but it's way

818
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: easier to villainize someone else. Granted, yeah, the two guys

819
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: who she catches do say shut the funk up a

820
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: little bit. I thought that was hilarious. Like, I, no,

821
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: I know that I shouldn't have left, but that's one

822
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: of my It's like Rufio is furious that, but yeah,

823
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like there was an opportunity

824
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: for maybe some more tension, for the other characters to

825
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: be like, hey, we're like, you know, we're all confused

826
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: and like, how could you rat out your fellow? I mean,

827
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: I think to a certain extent, they're partially brainwashed a

828
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: little too, because I mean they grew up in the

829
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: same like, this isn't what Mary's telling them isn't so

830
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: insanely foreign to them, Like they've been hearing it all

831
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: their lives. So I think that even when they're just like,

832
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: well this is kind of who I am, there's like

833
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: a grain of like, well this is bad as well,

834
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Um, back to the So

835
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: the movie was rated initially NC seventeen, and um, it's

836
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: now barely in our like there's aside from a few

837
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: times where characters say like fuck, Like, I feel like

838
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: it could get away with a PG thirteen rating. I

839
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: think so a few a few funks edited out, and

840
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: this is easily a PG. Theretem Yeah, what was Blackerd's rated? Oh,

841
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 1: I it has to be are I think, Yeah, I

842
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: don't know for sure, but characters they funk a lot,

843
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: And I think I don't know. It was just the

844
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: movie that I could think of most recently that would

845
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: be analogous to a teen ROMP. Yeah, I don't it

846
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: is okay. The documentary, Um, this film is not yet right.

847
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: It explores the sort of double standard. I think she

848
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: talks about the actual scenes she had to cut, I

849
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: think so, and then that documentary also it'll put up

850
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: like side by side sex scenes where gay sex is

851
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: being shown, and then right next to that a sex

852
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: scene where it's heterosex and they can be virtually identical

853
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: except for the fact that one of them is gay

854
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: and one of them is not. And the movies with

855
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: the gay sex scene almost always get the n C

856
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,479
Speaker 1: seventeen rating, whereas the movies with the hetero sex scene,

857
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: even if they're not any less graphic or show, you know,

858
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: like it's not as others like Dick's flying everywhere, like

859
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: hard to write, Like the the board, it's pretty vanilla,

860
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: and it's okay sex to the point where you can

861
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: just go just the tiniest notch above and I'm like, oh,

862
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 1: are we going, Like I'll just like be running around

863
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: the room, just like I can't believe that she gets

864
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: into a panic. I mean, it just shows that the

865
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: like gay sexuality is held to a different standard by

866
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: society and it's seen as more graphic and obscene. And well,

867
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: I also think that doing it right, it might be

868
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: that's also all sex. I don't know, And it is

869
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: such a it's frustrating to hear stuff like that, because

870
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: it does come down to such an issue of access,

871
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: where this is a movie that was successful. It had

872
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: only had a one million dollar budget and ended up

873
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: making two point six million. But this is like the

874
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 1: sort of movie where that if there was access given,

875
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: if this did have a PG thirteen rating, which it

876
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: easily could have, and was widely released, there could be

877
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: so many more young people who could have seen a

878
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: competent text and had access to it. This movie was

879
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: super important to me, and I wouldn't have seen it.

880
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: My friend wasn't like this. Yeah, it was only released

881
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: in something like a hundred and fifteen theaters across the country.

882
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: It had such a small theatrical release. Who knows what

883
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: like movie distributors are thinking. I don't know the intricacies

884
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: of that aspect of exhibition risk. Like I think at

885
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: the end of the day, all movie released, they don't

886
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: want to take a risk, whether it be people, fella,

887
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: gay people, women, all that stuff. If this movie came

888
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: out now, I feel like it would have gotten a

889
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: way wider release. And and I mean because like I'm

890
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: gonna keep harping about love Simon, but I literally have

891
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: the Wikipedia rating. But that's what Simon rated. It's Oh

892
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: good question. I don't know, but I know that it

893
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: It has a seventeen million budget and has so far

894
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: netted forty five. Like it's like movies, It's good. It's love.

895
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 1: Simon is PG thirteen years Kid. So one of the

896
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: last things I wanted to say about this movie is,

897
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: so when I was rewatching this and hadn't seen it

898
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: in a while and didn't totally remember all of the

899
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: details about it, the first probably three or so minutes

900
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: that you see of this movie, like the opening sequence

901
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: of like the credits and everything like that, is just

902
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: like again disembodied female parts. A lot of shots of boobs,

903
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: a lot of shots of cheerleaders doing splits, You see

904
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 1: their cratches, you see their butts, you see their like abs,

905
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: like all these like very sexualized images of like the

906
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: female form. And then you're like, oh, wow, this is

907
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: like some male gaze ship But then you realize it's

908
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: not coming from the male gaze per se. It's coming

909
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: from how Megan is viewing these characters. So it's really

910
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: coming from a lesbian female gaze, which who's probably trying

911
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: desperately not to think of such things, which probably does

912
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 1: not help. And I have complicated feelings about this where

913
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well, that's cool that you you're seeing

914
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: this imagery from a different perspective and from a different gaze,

915
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: but it's also like, should we really be objectifying women's bodies?

916
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I for for me, that was subverted

917
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: enough so that it worked. And that's true of almost

918
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: every stereotype present in this movie, where there's and and

919
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: correct me if there's anything, but like most of the

920
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: stereotypes in terms of how the movie is framed in

921
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: terms of the characterismself, almost every stereotype presented is commented

922
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: upon in some way to the point where it's challenged

923
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: or re contextualized. For me, that that those shots were

924
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: recontextualized in such a way that it was like, it's

925
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: weird because it's like, oh now we're getting into like

926
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: some some filmmajor tripe of you know, visually static image.

927
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: It's the same way you could have a male looking

928
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 1: at cheerleaders, but the context is so different. I feel

929
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: like goes hand in hand with like objectifying and not

930
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: caring about women, Like her boy friend is like, you

931
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: don't even like to kiss me. He knows that, and

932
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: he's still kissing her, and like you see her she's

933
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 1: attracted to female bodies, yes, but she's also like super

934
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: supportive of her friends and like you know, even at

935
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: the camp, like Graham has been kind of shitty to her,

936
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: She's just like, hey, do you need a hand, and

937
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: she's she's so I think that, yeah, she's might be

938
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: viewing women sexually and just kind of like that might

939
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: be detached. But I also think it goes back to

940
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: the thing like she's probably trying not to think of

941
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 1: like you know that, so it's probably amplified a little

942
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: in terms of like she's also a teenage exactly now

943
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 1: that anything about it. I want to watch the trailer

944
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: for this movie because I bet it's kind of I

945
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: would guess it's bad. The line used to market this

946
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: movie it was but I'm a cheerleader, a comedy of

947
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 1: social disorientation, which could mean so much. It's like, just

948
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: tell us what the movie is about. As a pre

949
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: nine eleven world, we didn't know that market things social

950
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: disorientation right this year this movie came out nine I

951
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: think if I mean, we say this a lot on

952
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: the podcast, but like if this movie was rewritten and

953
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: remade today it would be so different. So but for

954
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: the time, this movie is very progressive considering, I would agree. Yeah,

955
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: I think it's like nine to five where it's like

956
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: you could tell it was made in the past, but

957
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: the points are still pretty salient. Yeah, I mean there

958
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: was nothing in particular with it stood out to this

959
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: movie of like, yikes, that does not age very well, right,

960
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, yeah, the points that maybe

961
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: be hit home harder in a different way than they

962
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: were then. Now maybe there would be like more do

963
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: you don't have anything that stuck out to you as

964
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: like not not really, I think the only the only

965
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: real thing is it was very noticeable that almost all

966
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: of the women who were at true directions were white

967
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: women and the um. That's not to say that the

968
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: movie is completely devoid of people of color, because it's not.

969
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: But I think you know that that was a choice

970
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: that was made and in it's pretty glaring today. Um

971
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: Rosaria Dawson casting comments speaks a lot to the time

972
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: this movie was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think also if

973
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: it was made today, some updates might be that, like

974
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: it would be more inclusive of like trans people or

975
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: non binary people. Or by people just like any one

976
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: else on the queer spectrum, trying to think you had

977
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: cast if it were today, I think we'll feel like

978
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: Gina Rodriguez would be a strong contender for one of these.

979
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: Did you see her Annihilation? No? I haven't seen Annihilation

980
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: at so much. It's really overwhelming. That movie is very

981
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: pro has I'm in. I want to give my dollars

982
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: to people who like Gina Rodriguez only she's so great.

983
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie? I

984
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: wanted to shout out make Stole, who plays Megan's mom,

985
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: who's in every John uh Not John Hughes, Oh my god,

986
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, John waters John Watersman, sorry for just

987
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: having a peg. There's the French person who tries to

988
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: dance with Megan. Yes, I like that are most hateful

989
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: and most hateful way to take advantage of just how

990
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: Michelle was resting face looks. They're like, we're gonna make

991
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: her do something really mean. She has a mean resting face,

992
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: which I respond to very powerful. Yes, your disdain is

993
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: like food. I wish that there were more gay or

994
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: queer comedies. I think there's a huge fucking deficit that

995
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of I mean, it's very important to

996
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: remember your history and remember and to you know, shine

997
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: a light on issues faced in the gay, lesbian, trans,

998
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 1: bisexual queer community. But oh man, comedy would not go amiss. Yes,

999
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: and there's like a huge market for it. Yeah. I

1000
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: know we have conflicting thoughts on Scott Thompson, but he

1001
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: was the first gay person I saw on TV. And

1002
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: he was also the first gay person who fucking loved

1003
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: being gay and was just like, I'm so happy I'm gay.

1004
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: My life is better because I'm gay. And uh, definitely

1005
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen much of that since, like even today,

1006
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: Like it's just like not in the mainstream certainly. Oh man,

1007
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: it's pretty kick ass being gay something, which I mean,

1008
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: this has become a pretty cult movie and it's pretty

1009
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: recognizable to I mean, a lot of people have at

1010
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: least heard of this movie. Maybe not I host, but

1011
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people know about this movie.

1012
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: Give a guys. Yeah, I don't know. I wish i'd

1013
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: seen this movie sooner. Yeah, it's kind of one of

1014
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: the few movies about like queer culture that has kind

1015
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: of crossed over into the mainstream. I have seen a

1016
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: few game movies that um, I know rag that most

1017
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 1: people have not heard of at all. Uh, and that

1018
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:31,479
Speaker 1: our only popular community movies. Or it's just like it's weird,

1019
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: like because straight people do often their takeaway from gay

1020
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: movies is just like it's like, oh, you didn't get

1021
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: what you were watching. You should. You don't even realize how.

1022
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: Just by the way, the other three the only three

1023
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: lesbian comedies in existence. But I'm a cheer litter. Debs

1024
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: and possibly Imagine Me and You, Oh Debs, I haven't

1025
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: seen Deb's or Imagine Me and you. Um, Debs gets

1026
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: recommended to us to do on the podcast all the time.

1027
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: You guys, we got to do an episode. Oh god, guys,

1028
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing. Yeah again, very campy, very campy sounds great, um,

1029
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: which I'm not saying is a deterrent, but it's a

1030
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: quality film. Give it a describes a end of list.

1031
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 1: It's not even my favorite comedy, it's just the ones.

1032
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: Those are the comedy lesbian comedies that exist. I would

1033
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: love to be proven wrong. Tweet me, well, it's now

1034
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: is the time. Any lesbian writers out there who want

1035
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: to write more lesbian comedies please do it right right

1036
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: the stuff. Do it right now. We're millionaires, will give

1037
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: you our millions. My favorite gay thing in existence is

1038
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: gay mail web series called The Wonders Life Game Wondrous

1039
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: Life of Kale Galo Gayo Gallo Gallo. It's on YouTube.

1040
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: It might be the best thing in existence. It is

1041
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: gay case. It's so good, it's so funny. Freckle is

1042
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: a main character. Who is Freckle is the what the

1043
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: Wondrous gay and Wondrous life of Caleb Gallo. Oh, Jimmie,

1044
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: I really think you would. Spectral cast listeners, please watch

1045
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: this web series if you haven't already so excited. It's

1046
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: so good. Described as Will and Grace on Speed just

1047
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: does I feel like Will and Grace is reductive in

1048
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: this sense? It is so much more, so much more. Oh,

1049
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I don't know. It's great. Yeah, this

1050
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: movie was probably instrumental in me eventually coming out. That's great.

1051
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: And then again, we talked about this a lot on

1052
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: the podcast. But like movies and media are so influential,

1053
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 1: especially to young people or just people who find themselves

1054
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: not represented on screen, where if they do see a

1055
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: glimpse of someone like them, it's really powerful. Yeah, I'm

1056
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: glad it's for people who are too stupid to know that.

1057
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I watched Pizze Dragon on

1058
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 1: repeat because I had a huge honking crush on Helen Ready,

1059
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,479
Speaker 1: who was a lighthousekeeper, and I thought I just wanted

1060
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: to do chores in a lighthouse. That was my sexual

1061
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: orientation for a long time. Try and explaining trans is

1062
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: so much easier parents than being like mom, tad I'm

1063
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: in love with lighthouses. So yeah, I will shout out

1064
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: to queer dummies. I only had crushes on cartoon characters,

1065
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, up until as recently as today. The Dragon

1066
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: from Pizza Dragon for Anastasia. For me, Anastasia was anaesthesia.

1067
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: Technically Dmitri is Anastasia, but like genderal lift, it's like

1068
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: like Dmitri hot. I don't know. I just wanted to

1069
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: say I said gay a bunch of times, but I

1070
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: think if I still use gay as like queer and

1071
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: like an all encompassing LGBT thing, which some people find exclusionary.

1072
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, that sure, yeah listeners out there, Um yeah,

1073
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: the language. I feel like people are still trying to

1074
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 1: figure out exactly what language to use in a lot

1075
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: of situations because like some people find queer offensive, like

1076
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: within the LGBT community, but I think it's I prefer it.

1077
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: I think we on the podcast kind of use it

1078
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: as an umbrella term to describe anyone who's sexual orientation

1079
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: and or gender identity does not fall within Sorry, I

1080
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: know you're trying to wrap up, and I'm like, let's

1081
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: unpack all the language we just used. So we're always

1082
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: trying to do better. And if you, perhaps one of

1083
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: our listeners know of the term we may not know

1084
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: of we're addicted to information, let us not. We we

1085
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: we're hoping that our language, the queer community loves to share. Yes,

1086
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: we want, we want our language and our perspectives on

1087
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: things to be inclusive. If we're making any missteps, please

1088
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: let us know so that we can correct ourselves in

1089
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: the future. That being said, whether or not this movie

1090
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: passes the BACTO test, h it does, crazy but so yeah,

1091
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: I'll talk to it time. Also a movie I haven't

1092
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: still seen. Yes women talking to Yes. Um. Yeah. So

1093
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: Megan and Graham talk a bunch. Megan and Mary talk

1094
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: about all there's tons of female characters and they all

1095
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: talk to each other and sometimes they are mentioning a man,

1096
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: but for the most part, the conversations are more about

1097
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: sexual orientation and it's a non issue in this movie. Totally, yeah,

1098
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: no question about it. It passes it. Also, like we

1099
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: concluded earlier, it passes the Vito Russo test, which I'd

1100
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: have to really go back and look at the list

1101
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: of all the movies we've covered on the podcast so far,

1102
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's maybe the first movie to

1103
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: pass the Veto Russo tests that we've done so far.

1104
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Let's do

1105
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: it so I would give it four point five. I'm

1106
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: going to take a half nipple off for the fact

1107
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: that it could have been a little bit more intersectional,

1108
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: representing not just gay and lesbian characters, but also other

1109
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: people on the sexuality and gender identity spectrum as well.

1110
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: Is um could have been better representation of women of color.

1111
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: Aside from that, though, I it's such a fun movie.

1112
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: It is great that this movie exists, that it's a funny,

1113
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: lighthearted but also providing a lot of commentary on important

1114
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: issues like heteronormativity in gender roles and all that stuff.

1115
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: So it's it's getting a lot done while also being

1116
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: extremely entertaining. Yeah, it's just a great fun romp that

1117
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: I really enjoy, don't so yes, four and half nipples.

1118
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Megan, one to Graham, one to

1119
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: jan one too. We didn't talk about this character really,

1120
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: but Hillary from New Zealand Melanieland Australian or New Zealand

1121
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: New Zealand. Oh God, I love meld She's God bring

1122
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: her back chair. Also, her accent serves her so well.

1123
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 1: When you first made her, it's like lunch it'll leave.

1124
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: Gay people who like rules, by the way, are the

1125
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: most hysterical tragic to me. Ever, she was like pointing

1126
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: at that chart, and I mean they she loves the chat,

1127
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: the chat steep and then my half nipple will go

1128
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: to let's say, Michelle Williams, just because I forgot she

1129
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: was Yeah, cool, I gonna give it, uh fo uh.

1130
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: Sort Of based on the same reasons you described, I

1131
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: think across the board at this very well lacks intersectionality

1132
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: that I would wager was not present literally anywhere at

1133
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: the time, so there wasn't really a road map for it. Um.

1134
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: But there are some piky areas where for a reasons

1135
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: we've already discussed it could do a little bit better,

1136
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: but in terms of almost everything, it's like, you know,

1137
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: just having a movie made by a queer artist. I

1138
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: just wish that more people had been able to see

1139
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 1: it at the time and feel like the world would

1140
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: have been a little bit better if that were the case.

1141
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: Uh So, I'm gonna give four nippies. I'm gonna give

1142
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 1: two of the nippies to Megan we Have. I'm going

1143
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: to give my other ones to Melanie Lynskey because I

1144
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 1: just love her so much. She's so good in Heavenly Creatures.

1145
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: She's so good in everything. I really do love her.

1146
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 1: God bring back Melanie Lynskey. Now. I think you guys

1147
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: are spot on for the inner sectionality thing. I really do,

1148
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: especially since it is for her first movie and she

1149
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: was still trying to be like I would still like

1150
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: to make it as intersectional as possible. There's definitely more

1151
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: she could have done. I think she tried. But at

1152
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: the same time, like, the gay community is in a

1153
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: unique spot where they can be like, this is what

1154
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: we want to be about, and there is like a

1155
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: racism problem because racist on a systemic but but like you,

1156
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 1: I think the gay community is in a unique position

1157
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, we want to be about inclusivity

1158
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: and intersectionality. But I'm still going to give this movie

1159
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: all the nips five It's my It's one of my

1160
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: favorite movies. I'm sorry, thousand percent agree with you on

1161
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: the intersectionality thing. I'll give it to Clear Duval, who

1162
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: is my route, and just hero one to Jan who

1163
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: I think is one of the most important characters in

1164
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: the film. Totally gets overlooked. I think. I think even

1165
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: when I first watched it, I thought she was a

1166
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: little bit more of a punchline then she deserved to

1167
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: be Like I thought it was hilarious, like who does

1168
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: she think she's getting? But now I watch it and

1169
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, she is the best of us all.

1170
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: She is the most important character. I don't even know

1171
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: how she would fall now, Like I don't know if

1172
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: she really was straight or she was, you know, to

1173
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: do it and maybe, but I think it's it's cool.

1174
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 1: She's like, you're you know, you're not even putting me

1175
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: in the right box now, Like I think she was

1176
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: just kind of cool and very fluid in whatever she

1177
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: decided to be. I will give one to that vaginal pillow,

1178
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: which was incredible. Let me just throw a nip on

1179
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: the just throw a nip on it. Yeah, there RuPaul

1180
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: the soundtrack. At one point Rock is dancing to a

1181
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: RuPaul song and I think I have one where left

1182
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,959
Speaker 1: one to Mary's very deep voice, which I loved beautiful.

1183
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: When she comes in at night with like a flashlight,

1184
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: She's like, Megan, you got a phone call? I was

1185
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 1: just like, Oh, that's my sexual orientation. It's an older

1186
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: woman shining a flashlight, get a phone. And when she's

1187
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 1: on the phone, she's just in her bed, in her

1188
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: silk sheets, tuning an acoustic talks. So weird. Why Yeah,

1189
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: she's very never explained in this movie. Are the most

1190
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 1: important to me. Kathy Mariarty is so intentionally in the

1191
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: background of that entire scene the whole time, and it's

1192
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 1: so unclear. One great movie. Yes, um, well, Jenny, thank

1193
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: you so much for being where people. Thank you. So

1194
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: do you guys call your fans? That is what we

1195
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 1: call reason? Yeah we could have done better, but yeah,

1196
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 1: no one was like what if. We're like yeah, so

1197
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 1: I just like to tack head onto anything. Well, thanks

1198
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 1: for being a fan, thanks for being here today, and

1199
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: thanks for predating us this movie and is there anything

1200
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: you would like to plug? And also where can people

1201
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 1: follow you online? I am a comedian. You can find me.

1202
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: My name is my Twitter and Facebook and everything else.

1203
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: It's Jenny Chilikian. Sorry that name does not roll off

1204
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: the tongue. It is H A L I K I

1205
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 1: A N and Uh. I have a really cool show

1206
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: that I do with Aaron Judge every third Thursday in

1207
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: Culver City called Romantic Comedy. Such a great show. We

1208
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: usually have an incredible lineup. Both of you have been

1209
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: on it and Uh. In May we're having Nel Scovell

1210
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: as one of our guests, and we just have a

1211
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: really cool It's usually mostly women and it takes place

1212
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: in a bookstore, the Ripped Bodusty, which is just they

1213
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: sell exclusively romance and erotica and also just feminist texts

1214
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 1: about all sorts. But it's a really cool bookstore. Everyone

1215
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: who goes through there's just it's it's a cool place

1216
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: to hang out. Yeah. So yeah, if you live in

1217
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,120
Speaker 1: l A, check out Jenny Show. You can check us

1218
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 1: out on social media as well at bectol cast on

1219
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. Subscribe to our Patreon for Crying Out Loud.

1220
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: It's five dollars a month and you get access to

1221
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: to bonus episodes every single month. Wow, I know. Incredible. Also,

1222
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 1: it really hard for this podcast put a lot of

1223
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: materials we do, so give us your freaking money about it.

1224
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 1: We love content by our merch. We have really cute stickers,

1225
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: we've got really cute buttons, and it's very aggressive also

1226
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: by our merch. Merch. It was like, well I'm going

1227
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: to yeah, it's just Mary's voice. Well, there you have it,

1228
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: our discussion of but I'm a cheerleader. Jenny, thanks again

1229
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: for being here and everyone, just have a really special day. Okay. Bye,