1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. The words 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: the pen is Mightier than the Sword were first written 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty nine by an English novelist and playwright. 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: It's an interesting concept, the power of words to defend, 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: to inspire, or to wound, especially now in a time 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: in which technology enables us to fire off texts, shoot 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: each other emails, and attack one another on social media 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: or online posts. It's something I thought of often as 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: I set out to write this podcast. The Vaughan family 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: had already experienced written outrage in many forms after Chris's arrest, trial, 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: and verdict. As we neared the release of our first episode, 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: potential response weighed heavily on everyone involved. The first article 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: about this podcast to go live was the local Patch 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: website in Shanahan where the tragedy occurred, and with it 15 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: came reader comments like these Jim from Joliet, lock me 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: in his cell with him. He'll remember who did it 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: real quick. Wally, also from Joliet. Unless the Vaughan family 18 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: is saying Chris is guilty, they really need to shut up. 19 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: And Phil from Wheaton, Illinois reference is another man convicted 20 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: of killing his family in his post. Let's lock him 21 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: up with Chris Watts and they can swap stories of 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: how they each murdered their children and wives while we 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: slowly burn down the place. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: this is murder in Illinois, okay you. After Chris Vaughn's 25 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: wife and three children were found dead, speculation as to 26 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Chris's guilt started immediately on message boards and reader comments 27 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: beneath news articles. Here's Gail's sister Rose. 28 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: Passing judgment on people hiding behind a screen and putting 29 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: words and texts on the Internet without knowing truths, not 30 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: knowing whole story, only seeing parts that have been manufactured 31 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 2: in a lot of different areas. 32 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: That's a hard one. 33 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot, and it's billed over in person on 34 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: a deeply personal level. 35 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: When this all took place, even though I don't live 36 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: anywhere near Missouri, but this is where our original family started, 37 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: I had to put my children of protectiveness. 38 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: At their school. 39 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: So I had two middle schoolers and I had to 40 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: go and talk to the principal because there were parents 41 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: that were just being I was stocked. I had people 42 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: in our driveway constantly. I had reporters. We have a 43 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: long driveway, like a three quarter of a mile driveway, 44 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: and there were people parked everywhere. I called the police, 45 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: but the police wouldn't do anything. 46 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: After Chris's arrest, many viewed the extended Vaughan family as 47 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: guilty too. By relation. Gail Vaughan was particularly targeted as 48 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: the woman who mothered the man accused of killing, the 49 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: mother of his three kids and his children. Some were 50 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: even motivated enough to express their thoughts in calls or 51 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: letters they mailed to her home. 52 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 4: Oh pretty much, How could you be the mother of 53 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 4: a killer? 54 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 5: Why did you even give him birth? 55 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 4: There was a gentleman that texted and said that in 56 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 4: his opinion, Chris was guilty and he needed to be 57 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 4: stripped and sent to Canada in the middle of the 58 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: winter and see if he can survive there. And just 59 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 4: a lot of why Chris was even here, Why are 60 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 4: you defending your son? 61 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: He did it? 62 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 6: And we received that stuff, but there again, our lawyers 63 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 6: told us not to speak the public, so we never 64 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 6: even gave a comment to any media person at all. 65 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: The letter started coming shortly after the tragedy. 66 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 5: It seemed like it was about a week. The letters 67 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 5: started coming after the funeral I got a number of 68 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 5: hate mail that just said vile things. I got a 69 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 5: couple letters from religious people that wanted to save Chris's soul. 70 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 5: Many of them were very, very hateful. 71 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt from one that she's capped for fourteen years. 72 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 5: There was no return address, it has been typed, it 73 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:35,559 Speaker 5: was not signed, and it's dated June twenty sixth, twenty seven. 74 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 5: Mister and missus Vaughan, as a resident of Aswego, Illinois. 75 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 5: I am sickened at the news of the heartless, cruel 76 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 5: act your son inflicted on his wife and beautiful children. 77 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 5: Following the news story from the moment it broke, I 78 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 5: had no doubt in my mind of your son's guilt. 79 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 5: His story made absolutely no sense from the very beginning. 80 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 5: What kind of sick mind would put two bullets through 81 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 5: each one of his children's bodies at such close range 82 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 5: and then kill his wife. I can't even begin to 83 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 5: imagine the scared thoughts running through those children's minds as 84 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 5: this punk riddled their bodies with bullets. Matter of fact, 85 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 5: Chris is such a coward he couldn't even put a 86 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 5: bullet through his own head, which is where it belongs. 87 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 5: We are delighted in the fact that he was arrested, 88 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 5: and now Kim and his precious children may rest in 89 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 5: the comfort of God's peace. It would have been highly 90 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 5: unfair for the souls of those murdered that Chris be 91 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 5: given the opportunity to attend their burial. Congratulations to the 92 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 5: law enforcement personnel who made his arrest early in the morning. 93 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 5: We are now left with having to playing to our 94 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 5: little children why the dad of Kim's three children killed them. 95 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 5: The children in this community do not understand, and frankly, 96 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 5: neither do the adults. Chris thought he was so cool 97 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 5: that he could get away with this horrific crime. I 98 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 5: look forward to the day he is found guilty for this. 99 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 5: Only a cold hearted, psychopathic mind would kill his children 100 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 5: and wife, and I would be disgusted and ashamed of 101 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 5: my son. May the souls of Kim, Abby, Sandy and 102 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 5: Blake rest in peace. Hell awaits those so cruel. 103 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: Written things would also play heavily and to the time 104 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: Galen Rose spent cleaning and clearing out the Vaughan family's 105 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: os we Go home after the tragedy. In Chris's office, 106 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: Rose discovered a written list on his desk. 107 00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: In his office. 108 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: He had an amazing book collection that was right next 109 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: to where he sat, and you could tell that he 110 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: used them quite often because there were markers and napkins 111 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: whatever marking places. And the books were amazing to me 112 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: because these are all my loves, David Throw, Walt Whitman, Emerson, 113 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: Edgar Allan Poe. There were just amazing books that he had, 114 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: and they weren't like they were on the top shelf. 115 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: They were right next to his desk, and because we 116 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: were cleaning everything out, they would take out annie markers 117 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: or names or anything like that. I took out a 118 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: piece of paper that was in one of those and 119 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: it looked like it was newer than later older, and 120 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: it struck me because the note was I'm looking at 121 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: my notes. It was a new Year's resolution list from 122 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: Chris written in his hand, and what it said on 123 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: it was he wrote about being a better reader, a 124 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: better listener. Nothing on the list was selfish or one sided. 125 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: Everything he wrote was about being better to be better 126 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: for others, and I think that speaks mountains with his demeanor. 127 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: In Abigail's room, Gail would discover a journal with a 128 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: single handwritten entry. It offers tender and revealing insight into 129 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: a young girl's life and family. Later, when we would 130 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: meet in person, Gail would share it with me. 131 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 5: This is what Abbie wrote, Read that, I mean it's touching. 132 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: Today was Valentine's Day. 133 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: My box won the contest on the best Valentine's Box. 134 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: That's how I got this notebook and all the other stuff. 135 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: I like the stickers best. I got a lot of 136 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: candy today. I'm going to try to save it. I 137 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: want Sandy and Blake to be jealous because I have 138 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: more candy than them, but probably going to eat all 139 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: of their candy in like two seconds. Sometimes Sandy saves 140 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: hers two sometimes she eats it. Blake, well, he eats 141 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: his in five seconds and then he complains to Mom 142 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: that we have more candy than him. He can be 143 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: whiny sometimes, and Sandy can be bossy. I don't know why, 144 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: but pain is only a four letter word. Pain seems 145 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: like it should be a bigger word. Everybody hates pain, 146 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: so why is one big thing so darn stinking small. 147 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: It seems like it should be a seven or eight 148 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: letter word, doesn't it. I don't think I've ever written 149 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: this far before, but I just don't write, but I 150 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: know I figured out it is the only way to 151 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: express my feelings without getting mad. I am an artist. 152 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: I am cursed with the gift of art. Unfortunately it 153 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: came with a couple of extra things. Anger, frustration, patience. 154 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 3: And of course a gazillion other things. 155 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: I just picture the thing I'm drawing in my head 156 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: and draw. Here comes the bad part. I always mess up, 157 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: like make mistakes, not just in drawing, but in other 158 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: things too. I have to have everything perfect. I have 159 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: a neatness problem. It's crazy, is it not. But think 160 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: of all the great artists you know of all of 161 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: them went through a lot of anger and frustration that 162 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 1: they made their mistakes. 163 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 7: Right. 164 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,119 Speaker 1: Well, that's how I am. 165 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 3: I am always angry. 166 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: When I think it's going to be a good day 167 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: and it's nice and sunny out, I always get angry 168 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: because of people yelling or fighting. I don't get why 169 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: I have to be like this. I am. I don't 170 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: want to be. I want to write more, to have 171 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: more stuff to tell you, but I'm so tired. It's 172 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: like when you're breathing and you want to breathe in 173 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: all the way, but you just can't. It's like part 174 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: of your breath is lost in some other dimension where 175 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: no one else but you have the key for. But 176 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: the bad part is you lost the key, lost the 177 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: key to your breath. I'm really tired now. I've written 178 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: for like five pages so far. 179 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 7: Weird. 180 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: I think mom might be in my room again. 181 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,599 Speaker 1: I'm really really tired. I don't know why, though, it 182 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: seems like my eyelids are begging the top ones to 183 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: come down together. Well, I think that's enough writing for now. Anyway, 184 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: I have a headache. 185 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 7: Abby. 186 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 4: What's the data that it is the February the sixth. 187 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: February fourteenth, two thousand and six. 188 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 5: I mean, that's pretty profound for that's but the. 189 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: Subject of pain and the fighting and the hollering. Yeah, 190 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: I always say that's what I picked up. Yeah, I 191 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: always get angry because of people yelling or fighting. And 192 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: this is interesting too. I think my mom might be 193 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: in my room. I think my mom might be in 194 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: my room again. I was there, so I don't know, 195 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: but that was just eerie. Now, I do know that 196 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: Kim told Chris he could not go into those girls'. 197 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 6: Room, any of the kids rooms, any of their rooms. 198 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: I reached out again to Abigail's closest friend at the 199 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: time of her death, Alexa and shared the journal entry 200 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: with her. Here are her thoughts. 201 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, after reading it, it seemed like she was kind 202 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 8: of I wouldn't I don't know how to say, like 203 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 8: crying out for help a little bit, or she was 204 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 8: in pain, but she was trying to figure out how 205 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 8: to navigate through it while writing, like she was wise 206 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 8: beyond her words or her years, like when she said, so, 207 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 8: why is this big thing? So darn's tinking small? It 208 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 8: seems like it should be a seven or eight letter word, 209 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 8: doesn't it. And then she started going into just reading, 210 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 8: writing and being tired, and it kind of opened my 211 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 8: eyes to seeing like maybe there were problems or issues 212 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 8: going on that she was not talking to everybody about. 213 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 8: Maybe she wrote about her kept to herself. 214 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I viewed it the same way. 215 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: And I have to say, having now mothered adolescents in 216 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: addition to having been one at one point, I do 217 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: feel children are like mood rings, very much manifest the 218 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: dysfunction that they are around. And it's as if she 219 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: couldn't articulate the real issue, the real problem, But she 220 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: felt that there was one. 221 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 8: Yes, I agree, and she was trying to get it 222 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 8: out through her writing. 223 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 3: Did you find anything odd? She does reference I think 224 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: my mom's in my room Again. 225 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 9: I was trying to decipher what that, what that meant. 226 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 8: It seemed like it was like, seems like she's been 227 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 8: in my room going through my things, or she's in 228 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 8: my room. 229 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 3: I couldn't. 230 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 8: I couldn't decipher between the two. 231 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: That just struck out. I remember getting a little bit 232 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: of a chill the first time I read that, because 233 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: it's it's what does that mean exactly? 234 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 9: Like, what's what's really going on? 235 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 8: That kind of made me think, like what what did 236 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 8: she mean by that? Does she mean she'd been going 237 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 8: through things? Did she mean she'd you know, been through 238 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 8: her room straightening? No idea what that. 239 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: Meant, But that made it sound like it had happened before. 240 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, And she said. 241 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: Again yeah, and that it was something that that wasn't 242 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: a good thing necessarily, It was something that seemed like 243 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: it was she was conflicted about it. 244 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, kind of like she had been, you know, going 245 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 8: through her things. It kind of made me remember like 246 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 8: a moment that we all had. 247 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 9: I remember being us. 248 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 8: All being in the car going to one of Blake's games, 249 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 8: and everyone was talkative and laughing and joking, all the 250 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 8: kids and whatnot. And then both mister and Missus Vaughn 251 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 8: got in the car and everything was just silent and 252 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 8: it was tense, and it was like you could hear 253 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 8: a pin drop on the carpeting in the floor of 254 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 8: the car, you know what I mean. Like the music 255 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 8: was playing really really low, you could really hear it, but. 256 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: No one was talking. That's interesting. 257 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: So their dynamic altered the atmosphere in the car, I. 258 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: Would say so. And we were literally laughing joking. 259 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 8: I remember, like Casandra said something about Blake sucks or 260 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 8: them being dirty and he never watches, you know, just joke, 261 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,479 Speaker 8: you know, like playful banter with kids and us laughing. 262 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 8: And then all of a sudden, it was just like 263 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 8: we all are just quiet and silent, you know, sit 264 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 8: up straight. 265 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 3: Don't say anything dumb. 266 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 8: I remember, just sitting in the car. It was a 267 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 8: like a switch, almost like a flip of a switch. 268 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: At this point, Christopher Vaughn and I had been communicating 269 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: regularly via email for about six months, and I was 270 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: making progress into gleaning increasingly more insight into the complicated 271 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: marital problems and dysfunctional dynamics. He and Kim shared during 272 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: his trial. Something Vaughn had said during his initial interrogation 273 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the day of the tragedy was held against him, that 274 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: divorce was not an option. Here's an excerpt from an 275 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: email I sent him. Also, another question which was made 276 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: over the comment attributed to you that divorce was not 277 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: an option? Would you expand on it and what would 278 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: it have meant to you? It resonated with me because 279 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: it's actually something I've said many times to my husband 280 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: of almost twenty four years. I don't mean it or 281 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: hear it as a threat, but more a principle. I'd 282 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: be interested in your thoughts. That appears to have struck 283 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: a chord with Chris. Here's his response, Lauren, I attempted 284 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: to answer your question regarding my comment about divorce and 285 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: quickly found I was unable to do it within the 286 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: limits of the email character count. Context is really needed. 287 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: I neglected to provide it then, and my comments were 288 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: seriously misinterpreted. He then expressed he'd write in letter form 289 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: and send it to my home address. That letter would 290 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: never arrive. Instead, Chris went radio silent for more than 291 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: two weeks. I worried that Chris was pulling back, that 292 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: COVID restrictions were easing, and I'd soon be sitting with 293 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: him in person. We were getting closer to the questions 294 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: I'd plan to ask him from the first moment I'd 295 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: learned about this case. Chris might not remember everything about 296 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: the way in which his family died that day, but 297 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: he's sure as hell would have remembered planning it. I 298 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: was going to ask Chris if he ever intended to 299 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: kill his wife and children. Gail and I began to 300 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: exchange concern texts and emails. He'd gone radio silent with 301 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: them too, for more than two weeks. 302 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: Have you heard from him from Chris? 303 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 10: Yes? 304 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, thank goodness. I was worried. 305 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: So when did you hear from him? 306 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 9: Let's see Wednesday? 307 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 5: Yesterday, Wednesday. 308 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 9: My week is all confused now because he sent us 309 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 9: a letter, and what he has in the letter is 310 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 9: something we don't know how to handle. But I wish 311 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 9: you to read it. It's five pages, okay, and I'd like 312 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 9: to send it to you some way and see how 313 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 9: it impacts what we're doing. 314 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 6: Me. 315 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 7: It's all good, okay. 316 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 9: How it'll be taken. 317 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: So you know, probably the quickest way to do it 318 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: would be to just take a picture of each page 319 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: and text it to me. 320 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 9: Okay, because once you read it, it's something I really 321 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 9: can't explain over the phone, and you have to actually 322 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 9: read it to take it in, and I don't know 323 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 9: how people are going to respond to it, so it's like, 324 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 9: oh my gosh, so I don't know what to do 325 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 9: with it to tell you the truth? 326 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 3: Do you want to send it to me and I'll 327 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 3: read it right away and call you back. 328 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: Gail would first try to text images of the letter. 329 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: They were too blurred to read. I waited, stomach nodded 330 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: as she scanned, and email them after reading the letter. 331 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: When I called Gail back, my fingers suddenly seemed too 332 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: large for the keypad. 333 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: Are you there? 334 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 9: Yes, Yes, we are. 335 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 3: Here, okay. I had to compose myself. 336 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 9: I know I couldn't have read it to you. 337 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: My next call was to Bill Clutter, Are you sitting down? 338 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 7: Yes? 339 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: I am sitting down, okay, because you might lose your 340 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: legs on this one. I just got off the phone 341 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: with Gail and Pierre. I have been waiting to get 342 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: a letter from Chris because I asked him to explain 343 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: what he meant by the expression that divorce was not 344 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: an option. I hadn't heard back, and Gail had reached 345 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: out to me concerned because she hadn't heard back from Chris. 346 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: On Wednesday, she received a five page letter from Chris. 347 00:21:54,680 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: He remembers that morning. Oh my god, he remembers everything. 348 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: After hearing nothing from Chris for two weeks, his parents 349 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: finally received a letter. It was likely prompted by my 350 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: question about the dynamics and his marriage leading up to 351 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: the tragedy. Pierre agreed to read the letter Chris sent. 352 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 6: Mom and dad. When Lauren showed interest in my case, 353 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 6: I truly thought she would go the way of the 354 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 6: others before. She still seems intent on telling the story. 355 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 6: I know I have not been forthcoming, approachable, or even 356 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 6: cooperative in talking about what happened. My standard deflection to 357 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 6: any question is that I do not remember. It has 358 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 6: been easier not to talk about the kids and more specifically, 359 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 6: what Kim did. I have been really hopeful that I 360 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 6: wouldn't need to talk about that morning. Ever, again, I 361 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 6: don't know why now should be any different. I don't 362 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 6: know if it would be better just to leave everything 363 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 6: as is. I don't believe anything will change my being 364 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 6: locked up. I'm sure talking now will only get things 365 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 6: stirred up for everyone. But I am also thinking that 366 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 6: Lauren has already started, that you have been with me 367 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 6: through all of this. I cannot even begin to express 368 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 6: how truly grateful I am. If I am going to 369 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 6: fill in the blanks, it will be for you first. 370 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 6: Perhaps that will be enough, and it will be of 371 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 6: any real value to give Lauren this. Just leave it 372 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 6: as is. I did not know how to or want 373 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 6: to deal with what happened that morning, so I lied 374 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 6: about not remembering how kimberly shot my kids then killed herself. 375 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 6: This is what happened. We drove to the water park, 376 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 6: as Kim and I had talked about the night before. 377 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 6: Kim told me she felt sick. I pulled over and 378 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 6: got out to give her a minute. When I was 379 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 6: around the back of the truck, heading back towards my door, 380 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 6: it sounded like the inside of the truck was exploding. 381 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 6: I opened my door, saw the gun Kim was holding, 382 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 6: and jumped in my seat to grab it. Kim fired 383 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 6: at me. I fell back out the door, preparing to 384 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 6: make another attempt. Kim looked at me and said, you 385 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 6: will not take my kids. You killed them. She then 386 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 6: turned the gun on herself and fired. I got back 387 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 6: in to check the kids. Nothing can be done. I 388 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 6: thought to drive the truck. Kim was slumped, so I 389 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 6: tried to buckle her. My hands shook badly. I couldn't 390 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 6: buckle the belt. I couldn't drive the truck. I got 391 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 6: to the road to get help. I was and am 392 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 6: deeply ashamed that I failed to protect the kids. I 393 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 6: am ashamed that I drove Kim to do something so horrible. 394 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 6: I am ashamed that had she not shot herself, I 395 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 6: would have taken the gun and shot her myself. I 396 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 6: did not want to deal with what happened. I was 397 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 6: completely unequipped to do so. I did not want to 398 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 6: discuss why Kim did what she did. I did not 399 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 6: want to repeat what she said to me before she 400 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 6: killed herself. So I lied, saying I did not remember. 401 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 6: I was certain that the investigation would make clear what happened. 402 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 6: How could it not. During the interrogation, I was back 403 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 6: and forth between admitting my lie and continuing on. The 404 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 6: more questions the police asked. The deeper I got and 405 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 6: the harder it was to explain my lie. I told 406 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 6: myself that it wasn't going to going to matter because 407 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 6: the investigation itself would provide the truth. When I got 408 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 6: a defense team, I believe they would piece it together. 409 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 6: Any involvement for me would only hinder their efforts and 410 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 6: show my lie. I was convinced that being caught lying 411 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 6: would have me convicted without further consideration, regardless of the evidence. 412 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 6: As I waited for the trial, I realized that it 413 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 6: really did not matter that I had not fired a shot. 414 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 6: I failed the kids. I drove Kim to do what 415 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 6: she did. What she said was true. I was responsible. 416 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 6: I would let the judge decide what my punishment would be. 417 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 6: I am sorry for so many things. I have a 418 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 6: lot of time to go back over a lifetime of mistakes. 419 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 6: Some made little difference and others considerable. Saying that I 420 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 6: did not remember the owning of the tragedy was a mistake, 421 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 6: and I am sorry. Not taking responsibility was a mistake, 422 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 6: and I am sorry. I hope that, after waiting all 423 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 6: this time to talk about it does not prove to 424 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 6: be a mistake. Also, love you both, Chris. 425 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: Many things about this case stood out as odd to 426 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: me from the very beginning, but the claims of dissociative 427 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,959 Speaker 1: amnesia were the hardest to accept. Not only was it 428 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: the largest hurdle in trying to find the truth about 429 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: that day, but something about its duration seemed off. When 430 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: I spoke to neuroscientist James Fallen, he conveyed his opinion 431 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: that even if Christopher Vaughan had initial gaps in his memory, 432 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: the likelihood was they wouldn't have been permanent. 433 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 11: The sausative amnesia occurs in about one percent of people 434 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 11: after trauma, but it's short lived, and it's not very 435 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 11: common in males, and it's temporary. The idea of this 436 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 11: being some sort of long lasting thing, I you know, 437 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 11: look at the litterature in the past ten years shows 438 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 11: that this very rarely happens. 439 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: The letter also called to mind something Chris's sister in 440 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: law had shared. Rachel also mentioned that she thinks that 441 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: Chris blamed himself for what happened and blamed himself for 442 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: not protecting the kids. It is a manager revelation That 443 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: letter provided insight into how Vond's blood could have gotten 444 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: onto Kim's retracted seat belt. His droplets on the passenger 445 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: side and how Kim's blood transferred to the back of 446 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: his jacket. But it also raised questions as to what 447 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: he remembered and when. 448 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 9: So I wasn't sure how this would affect your podcast. 449 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: No, it doesn't, because there's still a lot of work 450 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: that needs to be done. What I've said from the 451 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: beginning was the only thing that could make this horrible 452 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: tragedy more of a tragedy is if the person sitting 453 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: in prison for the murders of the family didn't actually 454 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: commit it. It is, and he's been punishing himself for 455 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: the fact that he feels he drove her to it 456 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: with his actions and that he didn't protect the kids. 457 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 9: Yep, that's it. Yeah, I'm not sure how it I mean, 458 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 9: does it help us or does it hurt us because 459 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 9: he lied? 460 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 3: Pierre, what did you think when you read it? 461 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 10: Well, kind of what we knew all along, but we 462 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 10: just didn't know how it would get brought out. I 463 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 10: just don't know. 464 00:30:59,160 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 11: What to do with it. 465 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 10: And you know what the public's reaction is going to 466 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 10: be to it. Are they going to say, well, you 467 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 10: lied then, or you lie up there? Do you make 468 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 10: up the story and lie about it now? People are 469 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 10: very cynical. 470 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: Well, this is a huge development now if you look 471 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 1: at a man who had been through that horror and 472 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: was internalizing that guilt and that shame. Of course he 473 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: pushed away the pictures. Okay, this doesn't change anything. This 474 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: makes it that much more important. I think that that's 475 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: why he didn't want to get on the phone with me. 476 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 3: I think he knew we were going to figure it out. 477 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 9: And he had such a faith in the system that 478 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 9: they would figure it out and this wouldn't have happened 479 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 9: in going to prison. 480 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 3: And this is why he wanted to see me in person. 481 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 10: Right. 482 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Having spent fourteen years trying to piece together what happened 483 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: in the Vaughn SUV seemed sincerely in shock as he 484 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: tried to reconcile his knowledge of the crime scene with 485 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: Vaughn's version of events. 486 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 12: Yeah. 487 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 7: I'm just trying to wrap my head around that. 488 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: He got back in after she shot herself because he 489 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: was going to drive the car to get help. 490 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 13: That's how her blood's all over, Yeah, all over the 491 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 13: back of his jacket, opens the door he's leaning in 492 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 13: to get in, that's when she shoots. 493 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm just trying to so With this version, she 494 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 7: shoots the kids first, and then. 495 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 3: Well, he was in the back. 496 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: When I was around the back of the truck heading 497 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: back towards my door, it sounded like the inside of 498 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: the truck was exploding. I opened my door, saw the 499 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: gun Kim was holding, and jumped in the seat to 500 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: grab it. 501 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 3: Kim fired at me. 502 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 7: Oh, okay, so he is in the car. 503 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: When that's happened, I fell back out of the door, 504 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: preparing to make another attempt. I got back in to 505 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: check the kids. Nothing could be done. I thought to 506 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: drive the truck. Kim was slumped, so I tried to 507 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: buckle her, so she was slumped over the console. He 508 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: tried to buckle her, so she took her belt off, 509 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: and he tried to buckle it again. That explains the 510 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: confusion over the blood transfer and his blood over her. 511 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: My hands shook badly. I couldn't buckle the belt, I 512 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: couldn't drive the truck. I got to the road to 513 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: get help. 514 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 7: Yeah. 515 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 3: What do we do with this? 516 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: Because if Chris is still in the mindset that he 517 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: deserves to be punished, he might not even want to 518 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: be helped. 519 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 7: Yeah. 520 00:33:53,400 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first version that makes sense for 521 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: the first time in fourteen years, Clutter had plausible explanation 522 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: as to why and how Christopher Vaughan's blood got on 523 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: the retracted safety belt of his dead wife, droplets on 524 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: her side of the car, and how her blood was 525 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: transferred onto the back right of the fleece he was wearing. 526 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: A scenario of the tragic events of June fourteenth, two 527 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: thousand and seven that could now be used to create 528 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: a crime scene reconstruction that could possibly vindicate Christopher Vaughan. 529 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: The reconstruction, while expensive and complicated, would be necessary. 530 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 12: That letter, I don't know that that would succeed with 531 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 12: any claim of accel innocence. You know, they would argue 532 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 12: at self serving, which is the big hurdle. 533 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 3: What do you make of his use of the word 534 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 3: lie in this letter. 535 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 7: I don't know that lie as an accurate description of 536 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 7: holding back the details of what he witnessed. It's more 537 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 7: of no mission and not wanting to reveel that information. 538 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 7: And that's what was motivating him, is not wanting to 539 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 7: portray his wife as the killer of his children. And 540 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 7: you think about it, I mean, it's completely consistent with 541 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 7: a person who's actually innocent. If the states theory was correct, 542 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 7: that he stages this and is able to pull it off, 543 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 7: or he's able to line up the shots to make 544 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 7: it look like she shot the children, and his intent 545 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 7: is to get away with murder. He would be blaming 546 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 7: her once they give him that opportunity in time after 547 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 7: time after time. I can't see Kim doing this. I 548 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 7: can't see her shooting the kids. 549 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: I think that that expression is really telling, and the 550 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: fact that he uses it constantly. I can't see her 551 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: shooting me. I can't see her hurting the kids. I 552 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: can't see her doing this. That is something I think 553 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: he's struggling with in real time during that. 554 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 3: Interrogation, right, right, absolutely, And I think he's still struggling 555 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 3: with it, right. 556 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 7: Yeah. 557 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 3: He needs he needs to be evaluated. 558 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 7: Yeah, and it has to be someone that can do 559 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 7: a forensic interview and to explain psychologically the unwillingness to 560 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 7: be forthcoming. I mean that's really a more accurate description this, 561 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 7: his unwillingness to be forthcoming with the truth. 562 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 5: Yeah. 563 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: I think that first and foremost, we really need to 564 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: test the version of events he presents in that letter. 565 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 7: Right. 566 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, he has never admitted guilt but 567 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: he's also never shared what happened that day. This is 568 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: the first time, and I think that it's because just 569 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: a little bit of chipping away. I think he was 570 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: convinced that I would just disappear like all the others 571 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: who had expressed interest in telling the story. 572 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 7: Well, now you've got to get in to see him. 573 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 3: That's yeah. 574 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: The second it's possible I will, But who knows when 575 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: that's going. 576 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 7: To be well, absolutely by May. 577 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: If anything, though, I think that this is a huge breakthrough. 578 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 7: Yeah, that it is. 579 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: That letter offered insight that could be used amount of 580 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: post conviction case that could possibly clear Christopher Vaughan, But 581 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: that would also entail Chris going through another trial and 582 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: possibly returning to Joliet and the Will County States Attorney. 583 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: That thought weighed heavily on us all. 584 00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 9: I mean, I don't think he's done feeling bad. I 585 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 9: don't think he's going to quit that, but he still 586 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 9: doesn't think he's paid the price for it. I don't 587 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 9: know if she will go through an appeal. 588 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 8: I don't know. 589 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: Our initial optimism about that letter would be replaced by 590 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: something else. As Chris again went silent before sending me 591 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 1: this email, Lauren, I am sorry to have wasted your time. 592 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: I am done with the podcast. I let my parents 593 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: drag me into something I was not comfortable with and 594 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: something I did do not want to do. I've mentioned 595 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: before that I do not believe it is remotely possible 596 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: to get back into court. I am not willing to 597 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: pay what it would take to try. With the outcome 598 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: of the court being all but predetermined, I am not 599 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: willing to go through another trial. My letter to my 600 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: parents was very difficult. I want to make sure you 601 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: understand this is in no way personal. Thank you for 602 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: your compassion and your willingness to help. I wish you 603 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: all the best. Chris, I can't. I'm just open. 604 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 3: Father right, you are not through the lame. 605 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: I'll never leave with them. 606 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 8: Dam stee we dream Hello, Yes, a dream steal we algy. 607 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: Dream Love. On the next murder in Illinois, Chris's parents 608 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: struggle to get him back on board. 609 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 7: It's an incredibly difficult case. Having this cooperation that's. 610 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: Essential, and he gains a powerful supporter in the world 611 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: of criminal justice reform. He didn't believe that he could 612 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: be wrongfully convicted, which is why he didn't really mount 613 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: a defense. And another in the realm of defense. 614 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 11: I've tried about over five hundred murder jury cases, and 615 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 11: I think it's a case that needs to be reevaluated. 616 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers 617 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 1: are Lauren Bright Pacheco and Taylor Chacoye. Written by Lauren 618 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: Bright Pacheco and Matthew Riddle, story editing by Matthew Riddle, 619 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: editing and sound design by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chackoyine 620 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: featuring music by Cicada Rhythm with new compositions engineered and 621 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: mixed by Evan Tyre and Taylor chackoin. For more podcasts 622 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 623 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: wherever you can at the stories that matter to you.