Speaker 1: On the doll Cast. The questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
Speaker 1: it with the beck del Cast. Click click click click click,
Speaker 1: Hey Jamie, it's me the Predator. Click watch out, I'm
Speaker 1: coming for you. Click click click click click click click
Speaker 1: It's me the other Predator Predators Friend, Jamie, Wait, is
Speaker 1: there any Predator movies with two Predators? Good question? I've
Speaker 1: only seen I've seen Predator from nineteen eighties. Seven question mark.
Speaker 1: I've seen Pray obviously today's episode, and I've seen one
Speaker 1: of the Alien versus Predator movies. I don't so I
Speaker 1: can't speak to the other the other installments in the franchise.
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's usually a single Mr Predator.
Speaker 1: He's single, doing his business. He's single, he's just adjusting
Speaker 1: the single life. Really, when you think about it, Look,
Speaker 1: and this is the point where some guy on Twitter
Speaker 1: pulls a clip and they're like, they didn't even watch
Speaker 1: all eight Pridator movies. How can they talk about it? Look?
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Becktel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Darante, And this is our show where
Speaker 1: we examine movies from an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 1: Becktel test simply as a jumping off point for a
Speaker 1: larger discussion. Yes, can I tell you what that Bechdel
Speaker 1: test is while I'm at it? I would love for
Speaker 1: you to do that, all right. Well, look, it's a
Speaker 1: media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Wallace Test, originally made as a joke in
Speaker 1: a comic strip, but has since evolved to become kind
Speaker 1: of a metric that's often applied across media. Lots of
Speaker 1: different versions of it. The one we used to start
Speaker 1: our discussion is um, whether there are two characters of
Speaker 1: a marginalized gender with names who speak to each other
Speaker 1: about something other than a man for two lines of
Speaker 1: dialogue or more um and it should be some sort
Speaker 1: of narratively you know, relevant discussion. Yeah, so that's how
Speaker 1: we start a discussion. But then we kind of just
Speaker 1: talk about anything and everything, including how the predator is
Speaker 1: hot in this movie that we need will unpack that later.
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to get our guests involved
Speaker 1: because I don't feel like we can just make a
Speaker 1: claim like that and brush past. I just can't imagine
Speaker 1: having to stay silent as you are saying that. Um. So,
Speaker 1: let's so we are covering. Uh, it's our first recently
Speaker 1: released movie we've covered in a while. Um, but we
Speaker 1: know that our listeners wanted an episode on it. We
Speaker 1: wanted to cover it. It's Prey, and we have an
Speaker 1: absolutely wonderful guest today, so let's get her in the mix. Certainly,
Speaker 1: she is a professional indigeneered at a tribe called geek.
Speaker 1: It's Johnny J. Hey, everyone, welcome, it's me, Thanks for
Speaker 1: being here, thanks for having me. So we reach out
Speaker 1: to you because you wrote an incredible peace in a
Speaker 1: tribe called geek on this movie, and we are just
Speaker 1: interested to hear more of your thoughts. Um. But just
Speaker 1: to get us started, what's your relationship with the movie Prey.
Speaker 1: I have a very complicated relationship with the movie Prey. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: first off, when it first started being put out there
Speaker 1: that this movie was in the works, I was really
Speaker 1: skeptical right off the back because of the way that
Speaker 1: it was being um teased as hey, everyone, you know,
Speaker 1: like this movie is being pitched to different studios and
Speaker 1: it's going to follow a Comanche woman who goes against
Speaker 1: gender norms and traditions to become a warrior. And as
Speaker 1: these rumors kind of grew, as you know, like this
Speaker 1: was developing in Hollywood, you know, it started coming out
Speaker 1: like this is going to potentially be a predator movie,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like your spider sense to start tingling,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was just like, oh, no, this
Speaker 1: sounds so bad because they didn't just say a Native woman,
Speaker 1: you know, they said a Comanche woman. And at the
Speaker 1: time that the rumors had started about this movie, I
Speaker 1: was living in law in Oklahoma, which is where the
Speaker 1: Commanche nation is located, and you know, I've worked with
Speaker 1: Comanche women and the one thing that I was just like, what,
Speaker 1: Comanche women are so fierce, and you know, like a
Speaker 1: Native women have always kind of been the backbones of
Speaker 1: our societies and pre colonization. You know, while there were
Speaker 1: gender traditional gender roles, um, patriarchy and matriarchy were not
Speaker 1: what they are today for us. You know, like while
Speaker 1: it kind of describes it now from our perspective, um,
Speaker 1: it didn't back then. So you know, like even though
Speaker 1: you know, men were traditionally warriors. It didn't mean that
Speaker 1: women couldn't be warriors. And so you know they're like
Speaker 1: even from several different tribes, you know, there have always
Speaker 1: been this history of strong Native women who took on
Speaker 1: those warrior roles. Um, if you had a skill set,
Speaker 1: you know, even if you weren't a man, and it
Speaker 1: was traditionally a man's role, Um, if you were particularly skilled,
Speaker 1: nobody was keeping you from using your skills, you know,
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you're just a woman, you can't
Speaker 1: do that, Like that didn't really exist for us because
Speaker 1: you know, it was about survival and doing what you
Speaker 1: needed to survive. So everybody's skill set, you know, it
Speaker 1: had a place and it was kind of valued. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't the way that this was kind of being portrayed.
Speaker 1: So I can honestly say my relationship is complicated because
Speaker 1: I was talking crap about this movie since two thousand
Speaker 1: and sixteen. Um, any time a rumor or development would
Speaker 1: be released, I was just like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is not good. This is not good because Disney
Speaker 1: does not have a good historytive. That's and then and
Speaker 1: then upon seeing it, I mean, this is I'm aware
Speaker 1: of just because I've read your your piece about it.
Speaker 1: But what was your your first reaction on seeing the
Speaker 1: finished product? My mind was blown. Um, it was so good.
Speaker 1: I I'm a huge Predator fan. I love horror, and
Speaker 1: I grew up on Predator, and it's always been kind
Speaker 1: of disappointing, like after the first one. Um, And I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people tend to really love Predator too.
Speaker 1: Is that the Danny Glover one? Yes, that's over, and
Speaker 1: there's the debate between which one is better. But you know,
Speaker 1: for me, it was always about the original and everything
Speaker 1: else was just so disappointing. But I watched them and
Speaker 1: I'm excited to watch them because it's the Predator. And
Speaker 1: I even have a picture of me with a guy
Speaker 1: with the Predator life sized Predator. I went to an
Speaker 1: antique shop and it turns out that one of the guys,
Speaker 1: um that this dude is friends with, worked on the
Speaker 1: original Predator, Like he helped actually cast the Predator, like
Speaker 1: all the different pieces that they used, and so they
Speaker 1: started making these for fun and to just kind of
Speaker 1: have on display in his shop, and he sells them
Speaker 1: and I'm still like, let's let me win the lottery
Speaker 1: so I can at least have two of them because
Speaker 1: they are so badass, so cool. Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so you know, like I'm a Predator fan. I
Speaker 1: love the series, and so seeing this movie, like I
Speaker 1: I was already expecting badness. I didn't have high expectations,
Speaker 1: but oh my gosh, like my mind was blown and
Speaker 1: I never expected to be crying in a Predator movie,
Speaker 1: but I did. And you know, it was just so good,
Speaker 1: Like the story was so well developed, the characters were
Speaker 1: well developed, and it was like it wasn't just horror
Speaker 1: or action. You know, there was a lot of emotion
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of history that was being
Speaker 1: kind of conveyed in a way that was absolutely stunning. Um. So,
Speaker 1: like after watching the movie, I was just like did
Speaker 1: I just see that? Like did that just happen? Because
Speaker 1: the other thing that for me that really hit me
Speaker 1: in the feelers was the credits. Because you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of productions have native consultants. They'll bring people on
Speaker 1: to help, and they rarely get credit for that help.
Speaker 1: Um you don't really see their names in the credits
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But watching the credits and seeing
Speaker 1: the people that they brought into help with this movie.
Speaker 1: Being name checked was incredible because you know, having lived
Speaker 1: there in law in Oklahoma, you know, these are people
Speaker 1: that I've known. Um, they were people that I've worked
Speaker 1: with on other projects. Um, you know one of them
Speaker 1: is wanted a pot a Pony And I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I just pushered her last name, but um, she's a
Speaker 1: really well known commanche scholar and she had passed she
Speaker 1: just recently passed away. And you know, to see her
Speaker 1: having input on the movie and being included like and
Speaker 1: did see them kind of memorializing her was such a
Speaker 1: beautiful moment because you know, it just kind of showed
Speaker 1: that they really valued her input and the input of
Speaker 1: everyone that they brought in from you know, individuals within
Speaker 1: the tribe who were just language speakers or had some
Speaker 1: cultural knowledge, to the language department, to thinking the entire tribe.
Speaker 1: And you know, I was just like InCred doably moved
Speaker 1: by the credits, which who does that? So when people
Speaker 1: get credit for something that they usually don't get credit for,
Speaker 1: it's like very meaningful to like receive credit where credit
Speaker 1: is due. So I mean I don't and I know
Speaker 1: that we we talk a lot on the show about
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that the proper consulting work is
Speaker 1: both gotten and paid for. But I feel like that's
Speaker 1: such a good point that I don't even know that
Speaker 1: we've touched on. Is like also receiving the proper actual
Speaker 1: credit within the film credits in a way that isn't
Speaker 1: like you're waiting, you know, five hours to get to
Speaker 1: your name in size to font. Yeah, like that is
Speaker 1: that is extremely significant and that's so much. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the filmmakers behind this, but
Speaker 1: it's like with without the consulting, this movie would be
Speaker 1: a fraction of what it is. It's like, I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. I mean it's just like
Speaker 1: even now, like everything, I've watched it several times now
Speaker 1: because I get something different every single time, and it's
Speaker 1: just so phenomenal. It is. Jamie, what is your relationship
Speaker 1: with Prey with the Predator franchise in general? I mean,
Speaker 1: quite a short history with Prey as it just came out. However,
Speaker 1: I do remember seeing um, I didn't realize what a
Speaker 1: long production history this had, and I do remember at
Speaker 1: one point looking up, I was like, well, who is
Speaker 1: writing this movie and who were being slightly perturbed when
Speaker 1: I saw that it was being co written by a
Speaker 1: supervising producer on Jack Ryan. I'm like, hmmm, maybe not
Speaker 1: the kind of writing I'm going to enjoy, but I'm
Speaker 1: so I'm coming into the Predator franchise pretty cold. This
Speaker 1: was my first UM Predator Expanded Universe movie, and I
Speaker 1: really really really enjoyed it. Like, I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: talk about it. I have some thoughts on some things,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, I just like it's a
Speaker 1: It's UM for me, an action movie. Holding my attention
Speaker 1: is a huge accomplishment, and I really really enjoyed this movie.
Speaker 1: I think that there's so many good performances, the filmmaking
Speaker 1: is amazing, and the attention to detail culturally, I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to talk about and learn more about. So I
Speaker 1: liked it. Kyle, what's your history with Prey slash Predator
Speaker 1: at large? A large? I saw Predator one, I don't know,
Speaker 1: probably like fifteen years ago in college and was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's cool, that's fine. UM, but I haven't engaged very
Speaker 1: much with the franchise. But learning about this movie, I
Speaker 1: knew it came out, I was like, all right, this
Speaker 1: is on my list. Of things to see and then
Speaker 1: us doing this episode now gave me kind of the
Speaker 1: like kicking the bomb, I needed to actually watch it.
Speaker 1: I do wish that I could have seen this movie
Speaker 1: in theaters. Um as much as I like enjoyed watching
Speaker 1: it at home, I wish I could have seen this
Speaker 1: movie on a gigantic screen. Same and I've seen it
Speaker 1: twice now, once in English and once in Comanche. And
Speaker 1: then I also rewatched Predator yesterday just to see if
Speaker 1: it would like inform anything I had to say about
Speaker 1: Pray um, which I don't know, maybe it'll come up,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, I would say of the Predator movies
Speaker 1: i've seen, Pray is my favorite installment in the franchise.
Speaker 1: I also really enjoyed this movie Mr Predator Hot, but
Speaker 1: also everyone in the cast hot. Could you unpack Mr
Speaker 1: Predator hot for as someone who famously had a thing
Speaker 1: for the fish from Shape of Water? But I feel
Speaker 1: like that movie was actively encouraging you to want to
Speaker 1: have sex with the fish, and it just like worked
Speaker 1: on me faster than maybe the movie intended. I mean,
Speaker 1: have you seen Predator's body in this movie? I mean
Speaker 1: some abs? Yeah, he's he is often invisible but you
Speaker 1: know he's he's got abs, he's got nice shoulders. I
Speaker 1: forget you do love. I just think that he's Is
Speaker 1: it the shoulders thing? Look, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: have specifically a shoulders thing. The point is I am
Speaker 1: attracted to the predator from prey. I think it's really
Speaker 1: brave of you to say out loud, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: But that is neither here nor there. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to focus on that in this episode. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of more important things to talk about. So with that,
Speaker 1: I say we get into it, starting with the recap,
Speaker 1: actually starting with let's take a quick break and then
Speaker 1: we'll come back and recap. So we will be right
Speaker 1: back and we're back with Caitlin's famous recap. Okay, the
Speaker 1: movie opens. We are in the Great Northern Plains. It
Speaker 1: is the year seventeen nineteen. We meet Naru, played by
Speaker 1: Amber Midsunder. She's a young woman from the Comanche Nation.
Speaker 1: We see Naru gathering food with her dog. Sorry big
Speaker 1: sorry fan, Oh sorry, the dog good. Then we see
Speaker 1: her doing target practice with a throwing axe. She spots
Speaker 1: a deer, which gets spooked by a loud sound something
Speaker 1: flying overhead, maybe an alien spaceship we don't know, but
Speaker 1: a chase ensues and Naru chases and hunts the deer,
Speaker 1: but it gets away. Then she sees something in the
Speaker 1: sky and it's maybe an alien spaceship. Question mark done done.
Speaker 1: I also love every time they are in like Predator vision.
Speaker 1: It's so it just it made me giggle, maybe giggle.
Speaker 1: Every time he went heat vision mode, you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the future, because this movie does such a good job
Speaker 1: of entrenching you in seventeen nineteen than anytime you see
Speaker 1: heat vision you're like, hold on, uh uh. So. Then
Speaker 1: Naru speaks to her brother tab A played by Dakota Beavers.
Speaker 1: She tells him that she saw what she's calling the
Speaker 1: thunderbird in the sky. They talk about hunting. She says
Speaker 1: she's ready for her trial, and he's like, you want
Speaker 1: to hunt something that's hunting you? And we're like, that's
Speaker 1: the theme of the movie. And then Naru and her
Speaker 1: mom played by Michelle Thrush, have a conversation. Her mom asks,
Speaker 1: you're good at so many things, why do you want
Speaker 1: to hunt? And Naru says, because you all think that
Speaker 1: I can't, which is the most coming of age thing
Speaker 1: of all. I really like um Michelle Thrash's performance. This
Speaker 1: is also where you find out that her father has
Speaker 1: passed Naru's father. Yes. Yeah. We then cut to this
Speaker 1: thunderbird flying through the sky again. Then we see something
Speaker 1: that you recognize as the Predator alien if you've seen
Speaker 1: a Predator movie. It's invisible, but you can see its outline.
Speaker 1: You can hear it's like click click click noise its mouth.
Speaker 1: The clicks are cannon. I'm taking it. Yes, Yes, people
Speaker 1: love a good old fashioned predator click. I was loving it.
Speaker 1: It's good, it's good. Meanwhile, a lion has taken out
Speaker 1: one of the men from the village, Poohy, so Tabe
Speaker 1: and some other men start tracking the lion to rescue Poohi.
Speaker 1: Naru follows the men, but they don't take her seriously.
Speaker 1: They make a sexist remark toward her. Then Naru is
Speaker 1: the one to find pooh He alive, but he's badly injured,
Speaker 1: and she suspects that something else, something bigger, must have
Speaker 1: scared off the lion and that's why pooh He is
Speaker 1: still alive. Right, So Naru tends to his wounds and
Speaker 1: gives him a medicinal plant that cools his body temperature
Speaker 1: to slow down his blood flows so that he doesn't
Speaker 1: lose too much blood. Right. Then, Naru and the others
Speaker 1: carry Poohy back to their village while Tabe stays behind
Speaker 1: to hunt the lion. On the way back, Naru sees
Speaker 1: large footprints a skinned snake, kind of some freaky stuff.
Speaker 1: The snake scene was cool and the yeah, the snake effects,
Speaker 1: that was one of the scenes. We're like, why can't
Speaker 1: I see this in imax? This is so cool? Right,
Speaker 1: So she sees all this stuff, so she and this
Speaker 1: man Paca, turned back to warn Tabe and try to
Speaker 1: help him kill the lion, but the plan doesn't totally work.
Speaker 1: Tab has to save Naru and Paca from the lion,
Speaker 1: and he returns having vanquished the lion, and Tabe is
Speaker 1: made war chief. But Naru is like, well, there's something
Speaker 1: still out there and if I have to, I'll I
Speaker 1: will go out and hunt it by myself. And Toby
Speaker 1: is like, well, you tried and you failed and you
Speaker 1: can't do this, and you're like, Okay, this is some
Speaker 1: real protagonist shit going on. Yeah, So, not more determined
Speaker 1: than ever, sets off to find whatever this huge animal is,
Speaker 1: this predator with I hear kind of incredible shoulders. That's
Speaker 1: just what my friend said. Though great shoulders, nice abs,
Speaker 1: just kind of a good overall fish also had abs.
Speaker 1: If you recall so many they just kept going. He
Speaker 1: had like forty as he had a lot of absy
Speaker 1: confusing for me. Okay. Anyway, So we see Naru tracking
Speaker 1: the predator. She perfects her throwing as adds a rope
Speaker 1: to it so that she can easily retract it and
Speaker 1: catch it. Meanwhile, we see the predator alien hunting and
Speaker 1: killing a wolf. It rips the wolf's like spine and
Speaker 1: head off, so we're like, oh my gosh, this predator
Speaker 1: he means business and he has this yet like terminator
Speaker 1: like vision, like predator vision that is heat sensing, so
Speaker 1: he can see like warm bodies wherever he looks. Nauru
Speaker 1: comes across a field of slaughtered and skinned bison. But
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this wasn't the predator, even though predator
Speaker 1: love to skin things. Because she finds a what I
Speaker 1: think is a cigar, so we understand that humans did this.
Speaker 1: Colonizers did this. So she continues hunting. She gets stuck
Speaker 1: in like a marsh and has to use her axe
Speaker 1: like on a rope to pull herself out again, just
Speaker 1: like an unbelievable sequence. The tension in that scene I'm
Speaker 1: trying to I mean, anytime someone falls into a large marsh,
Speaker 1: it's just it's going to be thrilling. Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: Then she encounters a grizzly bear, which is about to
Speaker 1: kill her, but then the bear is distracted by the
Speaker 1: predator and she watches Mr. Predator fight and brutally kill
Speaker 1: the bear. She manages to escape, then bumps into the
Speaker 1: young men from the tribe who are out looking for her.
Speaker 1: Character named Wassape is kind of leading the group. He
Speaker 1: forcibly and violently tries to bring her back home, but
Speaker 1: she fights back and tries to warn them about the
Speaker 1: huge monster, but they don't believe her or take her
Speaker 1: seriously until the predator shows up and starts killing the
Speaker 1: men kind of one by one using it's like laser
Speaker 1: pointer and advanced alien weaponry, which I love. I I
Speaker 1: they advanced alien weaponry still feels like, oh, this was like,
Speaker 1: this is technology from the this is what the future
Speaker 1: was supposed to look like in the eighties. Like I
Speaker 1: just love that element to it is. So it's fun
Speaker 1: because going back and watching the advanced alien weaponry from
Speaker 1: the first Predator movie in the eighties is very funny
Speaker 1: to look. Is it the heat sensing vision? Anytime you
Speaker 1: like see the eighties version of the heat sensing technology,
Speaker 1: you're like, yep, this is from the eighties. That's wait, Johnny,
Speaker 1: when did you first see a Predator movie? Oh? I
Speaker 1: was young? Yeah, this is gonna date me that. I
Speaker 1: believe I was eight years old, so that would have
Speaker 1: been nice. Yeah, And I mean my family loved movies, um,
Speaker 1: and I was basically born a horror fans, so you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't unusual for you know, people to let me
Speaker 1: watch horror films because I remember watching Twilight Zone, Alfred
Speaker 1: Hitchcock and do you guys remember the TV series The Hitcher?
Speaker 1: What's that that was like on USA? And Tales from
Speaker 1: the Dark Side. I know my mom has pictures of
Speaker 1: me like peeking out from behind the couch and my
Speaker 1: hands are over my eyes. But that's how I used
Speaker 1: to watch shows. And I was super tiny, so sweet.
Speaker 1: So like, I grew up on horror, so you know,
Speaker 1: I had an early introduction into Predator and it kind
Speaker 1: of stayed with me because you know, the movies aren't
Speaker 1: that great, Like, you know, story wise, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of action, there are a lot of fun, but
Speaker 1: in terms of like a cinematic masterpiece, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a little debatable, but you you root for the
Speaker 1: movies because you love Predator. You know, you love this
Speaker 1: alien because, let's be honest, he's always getting his butt kicked.
Speaker 1: He's never come out the winner. He may have gotten
Speaker 1: a couple of kills in, but I mean, and it's
Speaker 1: a formidable opponent for sure. Yeah, and he's always been
Speaker 1: taken out by human intelligence, which can we just can
Speaker 1: we just talk about how absurd that is, Like, you're
Speaker 1: this creature that has heat vision and these advanced weapons
Speaker 1: is getting beat by humans, and not just beat by humans,
Speaker 1: but literally he got hit with a log, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like the first movie. But you still
Speaker 1: love him, you know what I mean, You still root
Speaker 1: for him. You get excited when you see a Predator
Speaker 1: movie and yeah, fish face, Mr Fish. That contextualizes it well.
Speaker 1: I feel like the way you're describing your feelings about
Speaker 1: Predator and the Predator franchise is how I feel about
Speaker 1: Jigsaw and the Soft franchise, where you're like Okay, the
Speaker 1: first one is genuinely really good. The rest we don't
Speaker 1: really know. But am I always rooting for Jigsaw, Yes,
Speaker 1: I am. I mean it's the same thing with like,
Speaker 1: you know, with Freddie and Nightmare on Elm Street, Jason.
Speaker 1: You know, like you've got these moments that are so
Speaker 1: good that draw you in, but then because you're so
Speaker 1: invested at that point, like it doesn't matter if all
Speaker 1: the rest of them suck, You're still excited for him
Speaker 1: and you still love them absolutely cool. I was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm always curious with like franchises, but I feel like
Speaker 1: eight that has to be that has to be such
Speaker 1: a sweet spot, that's a lifelong pledge to the Predator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I mean I am just as bad with Michael Myers.
Speaker 1: I'm actually wearing a Michael Myers shirt now. Um that
Speaker 1: is oh my gosh fandom that I am totally obsessed with.
Speaker 1: And my whole thing, like over at this entire pandemic
Speaker 1: has been just let me live to see the end
Speaker 1: of this trilogy. So that's that's how invested I am
Speaker 1: with my fandoms, you know. And it's the same with Predator.
Speaker 1: Like I've seen all of the movies um, and I've
Speaker 1: seen them almost except for the first two, all in theaters,
Speaker 1: so numerous times. I'm that nerd who's seen I hate
Speaker 1: to admit this Lord of the Rings probably about like
Speaker 1: ten times in theaters. I'm not that far behind you.
Speaker 1: I saw a Return of the King six times in theaters.
Speaker 1: Like you know, this was back in the day when
Speaker 1: you could afford to go to a movie multiple times.
Speaker 1: But you know, I remember just going to people who
Speaker 1: were like, you're going to see it again, and I
Speaker 1: was like yes. It was like you don't understand. You're like,
Speaker 1: don't judge me. Work hard for my money. I will
Speaker 1: spend it how I want. Yeah, okay, so back to
Speaker 1: back to the recap um. Okay. So it's the scene
Speaker 1: where Predator shows up and kills all of the young
Speaker 1: men in this group who is looking for Naru. Naru
Speaker 1: narrowly escapes again, but oh no, her foot gets caught
Speaker 1: in a trap and the predator comes right up to her,
Speaker 1: but then leaves, and then just then some French for
Speaker 1: trappers show up and abduct Naru. She wakes up. The
Speaker 1: French demand information from her about this monster. Turns out
Speaker 1: they've also captured her brother Tabe and the trappers tie
Speaker 1: them up in an open area and use them as
Speaker 1: bait for the predator, and mr Predator does show up,
Speaker 1: but rather than taking the bait, he kills all of
Speaker 1: the trappers and does not go after Naru and Tabeh.
Speaker 1: Naru real eyes is the predator doesn't want bait and
Speaker 1: won't attack anything that it doesn't consider a threat, so
Speaker 1: Naru and Tabe eventually escape. Tabe sets off to collect
Speaker 1: the frenchman's horses while Naru goes after her dog, Sorry,
Speaker 1: who is back at the French camp. And she gets there,
Speaker 1: she has to fight and kill a handful of French guys,
Speaker 1: and then she helps out this man whose leg was
Speaker 1: cut off. She gives him the medicine that lowers your
Speaker 1: body temperature and he kind of in exchange shows her
Speaker 1: how to use a gun. But oh no, the predator
Speaker 1: comes to the camp but doesn't see the French guy
Speaker 1: because his body temperature is too cold for the heat
Speaker 1: sensing vision, which is something that Naru pieces together. She
Speaker 1: kind of figures out that if you take this medicinal plant,
Speaker 1: it makes it so that the predator can't see you. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: predator is about to kill the dog, but then Tabe
Speaker 1: shows up on horseback. Naru and Tabe launch an attack,
Speaker 1: but the Predator kills Tabe and Naru runs away to safety.
Speaker 1: Every time a dog is introduced in an action movie,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, no, that dog is going to be
Speaker 1: in the trenches. It um But you know the dog survives,
Speaker 1: I know, and that that happy. That's what I call
Speaker 1: subversion volume twenty two. So the Naru comes across another
Speaker 1: surviving French guy, the same one who had injured her brother,
Speaker 1: so she gives him a gun that, oops, doesn't work.
Speaker 1: This is all part of her plan. Basically, she wants
Speaker 1: the Predator to think of him as a threat because
Speaker 1: he has a weapon. But the gun doesn't work, and
Speaker 1: her plan succeeds because Predator shows up and kills this
Speaker 1: French guy, giving her the opportunity to have this final
Speaker 1: showdown with Predator. She has taken the medicine that lowers
Speaker 1: your body temperature so Predator can't see her. They fight,
Speaker 1: she chops off his arm, She pulls him into the
Speaker 1: marsh that she fell into earlier, and then using its
Speaker 1: own alien technology against it, she is finally able to
Speaker 1: kill the Predator and she returns to her village with
Speaker 1: the decapitated head of Mr. Predator the glow in the
Speaker 1: dark blood like, oh, it's so cool. Yeah. Uh. She
Speaker 1: reunites with her mom and Naru is made the new
Speaker 1: war chief of her tribe. So that is the story.
Speaker 1: Let's take another break and we will come back to
Speaker 1: discuss and we're back. Okay, where shall we start, Johnny,
Speaker 1: is there anything in particular you would like to start
Speaker 1: the discussion with. We can we can jump in what
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot we can talk about. There
Speaker 1: is a lot um now, you know what I really
Speaker 1: want people to understand, like, is the context of the
Speaker 1: movie because I I don't know if you've seen it
Speaker 1: in Comanche, but there's such a huge difference in the
Speaker 1: way that the tone and even Naru's motivation is portrayed.
Speaker 1: Because one of the fears that I had with this
Speaker 1: movie from the very get go was that people would
Speaker 1: kind of run with the original tagline of this being
Speaker 1: a commanche woman who goes against gender norms and traditions
Speaker 1: to become a warrior. And in the English version, there
Speaker 1: are moments that kind of that kind of hint at
Speaker 1: that motivation. Um, you know, when Naru's talking with her mom,
Speaker 1: and her mom asked, why do you want a hunt?
Speaker 1: And she says, because you all think I can't. It
Speaker 1: seems like she's rebelling and that you know she's she's
Speaker 1: doing it to be rebellious and to prove that she
Speaker 1: can and that the tribe is kind of holding her back.
Speaker 1: But if you watch it in Command, she it's a
Speaker 1: very different context that it falls and the context comes
Speaker 1: back to it being about Nauru, Like she's not doing
Speaker 1: it in spite of the tribe. You know, she's doing
Speaker 1: it to prove it to herself, um, that she can
Speaker 1: do it. So it's not about you know, everybody else
Speaker 1: doubting her or anybody else's you know, ideas being pushed
Speaker 1: onto her. You know, it's about her proving to herself
Speaker 1: that she can. And I thought that was one of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful things about this movie being released in
Speaker 1: Commanche and English is because there's such a huge difference
Speaker 1: if you listen to if you watch the movie in Commanche,
Speaker 1: you're going to get more context, more humor, um and
Speaker 1: things are just better conveyed. I guess as far as
Speaker 1: like the messaging of the movie and when you get
Speaker 1: into the English, it almost seems like, which is kind
Speaker 1: of neat for me, because it almost seems like the
Speaker 1: English is the afterthought, like a lot of the humor,
Speaker 1: the nuance, you know, like they didn't really it doesn't
Speaker 1: come through in the English version. In the English version,
Speaker 1: you really got to watch it in Comanche to get
Speaker 1: the full effect of the movie and just how beautiful
Speaker 1: it is. Um. Even the conversation that you know, not
Speaker 1: Re has with her mother and her brother, it's better understood.
Speaker 1: And even just the title of the film itself is
Speaker 1: better understood in Comanche that it is in English. Um
Speaker 1: pray in Commanche. You know, if you're watching it, it's
Speaker 1: Catamia is the trial that she's looking to undergo. And
Speaker 1: that's actually what the movie. The title of the movie
Speaker 1: translates to um in commande. So it kind of explains
Speaker 1: why it's not a predator movie, like it's not Header
Speaker 1: than nine, you know. So, so I thought it was
Speaker 1: a genius use of the language um and shows how
Speaker 1: meaningful and intentful they were in the usage of the
Speaker 1: Comanche language. UM. So if you're watching in Comanche, like
Speaker 1: you get a totally different experience. And so I want
Speaker 1: people to really kind of understand like, this isn't a
Speaker 1: girl power movie. Um, it is, but it's not like
Speaker 1: she was doin it in spite of the men in
Speaker 1: her tribe, like she was trying to prove or rebel
Speaker 1: or anything, or they were trying to keep her from it.
Speaker 1: That really wasn't the context that they were kind of
Speaker 1: going for um And and there were moments where it
Speaker 1: really played out that way, you know, with the way
Speaker 1: that her interaction with the other warriors, um, which for
Speaker 1: a lot of us was kind of problematic because they
Speaker 1: would not have been able to treat her that way
Speaker 1: back then, and they wouldn't. I don't think they really
Speaker 1: would have thought to treat her that way as well, um,
Speaker 1: just because you know, pre colonization, you know, our relationships
Speaker 1: with you know, like being women and you know men,
Speaker 1: our relationships were very different. It was all about a
Speaker 1: balance of power. It wasn't about men holding power over
Speaker 1: women or women holding power over men. There was a balance,
Speaker 1: and so you know, that really kind of didn't come
Speaker 1: through and it was kind of it was a little problematic,
Speaker 1: but you know, like my thinking is nothing's perfect, so
Speaker 1: you know, it's still a major step up in terms
Speaker 1: of representation, but there are still these little little nuances
Speaker 1: where if you know, like if you're not Native, you're
Speaker 1: going to get something different out of it. And I
Speaker 1: think that could kind of be problematic just because so
Speaker 1: many times, you know, even now with like the fan
Speaker 1: backlash from this movie. You know that what I like
Speaker 1: to call the Foe boys, because they're not really fans.
Speaker 1: They're just like agency chaos who come in and just
Speaker 1: try to try ash things in, create drama. That's how
Speaker 1: they have joy in their life, which is um interesting.
Speaker 1: So sad, yes, that is the word. That is the
Speaker 1: word sad, pathetic, embarrassing, Yeah, but you know, like it
Speaker 1: kind of plays into that because I don't know how
Speaker 1: many comments I've seen after this we're like, oh, Native
Speaker 1: men were brutal to women and you know, they were
Speaker 1: raping and blah blah blah blah, and they project all
Speaker 1: of this you know, violence onto onto Native communities that
Speaker 1: wasn't there just because of the stereotypes that we've typically
Speaker 1: seen in movies. So you know, when I see things
Speaker 1: like that, like I always worry about, like what the
Speaker 1: takeaway is going to be, Like are people going to
Speaker 1: be like, see, that's how they really treated their Native
Speaker 1: women and you know, and it's like, no, it's a
Speaker 1: little more complicated than that, right, Yeah. So I saw
Speaker 1: it in both the English and Comanche and just kind of, yeah,
Speaker 1: what plays out in in both versions to I think
Speaker 1: a lesser extent in Comanche, but still have those scenes
Speaker 1: where the men aren't taking her seriously, they're being violent
Speaker 1: towards her, They're enforcing what feels like kind of like
Speaker 1: white Christian sexism on to her. And I'm like, that
Speaker 1: doesn't that didn't totally track. And I was glad that
Speaker 1: you mentioned that in your piece as well, Johnny, because
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know, I was like, this
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to square very well, and it's it seems
Speaker 1: to be kind of like a current film trope that
Speaker 1: has made its way into this story where it doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense for the period and the culture that this
Speaker 1: story takes place in, because it just feels like kind
Speaker 1: of this like loose, like like you said in your
Speaker 1: like a girl power narrative that like is taking place
Speaker 1: in a vacuum sort of. Yeah, And because I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I see this so often when we have
Speaker 1: discussions of like you know, especially like with women's issues,
Speaker 1: and women's rights. A lot of like white patriarchal values
Speaker 1: in feminist ideas get kind of projected onto Indigenous communities,
Speaker 1: which you know, for me, it's annoying because it kind
Speaker 1: of whitewashes and erases the inherent strength and power of
Speaker 1: Indigenous women that we've always had. You know, pre colonization,
Speaker 1: we weren't oppressed in our communities. You know, we were
Speaker 1: you know, they women have always kind of been the
Speaker 1: backbones of our societies and respected and treated well, you know,
Speaker 1: we held power, um, but it wasn't like we held
Speaker 1: power over um. You know, it was just like an
Speaker 1: equal distribution of power. Like our our thoughts, our work,
Speaker 1: our labor, everything had value and was respected. So you know,
Speaker 1: I always worry about when it's projected onto us because
Speaker 1: it really it almost is kind of like a way
Speaker 1: to deflect from the trauma of colonization, like to kind
Speaker 1: of be like, oh, well, you know, like look what
Speaker 1: they were doing. You know, they were they were pushing
Speaker 1: people into this, but it's not the same context. And
Speaker 1: you know, I don't if you're not Native like and
Speaker 1: not familiar with Native history or cultures or communities, you
Speaker 1: don't really understand like that the nuances that exist and
Speaker 1: so when I mean that was my main worry with
Speaker 1: this movie was just how like how these like patriarchal
Speaker 1: values were being kind of projected. And you know, and
Speaker 1: I kind of understand it to an extent too, because
Speaker 1: you know, this is a movie for a mass market
Speaker 1: and you know it has to you know, viewers have
Speaker 1: to watch it and understand what's going on. And while
Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't like they wish they would have
Speaker 1: tweaked it a little bit in different ways, um, I
Speaker 1: think it still did a really good job of showing,
Speaker 1: you know, the overall theme, right, because the one thing
Speaker 1: that really annoyed me, you know was just the fact
Speaker 1: that the like the men warriors that she was going
Speaker 1: out with, like the hunting parties and everything that you know,
Speaker 1: her brother would not have allowed them to treat her
Speaker 1: that way or to talk to her that way. Um,
Speaker 1: And they would not have treated her that way, especially
Speaker 1: once her brother became you know, like they're like they're
Speaker 1: war chief. You know, that wouldn't have happened. And the
Speaker 1: part where you know they really kind of just beat
Speaker 1: the crap out of her, Um, if if it was
Speaker 1: from a different tone it would have made sense if
Speaker 1: they weren't doing it to be sexist, if they weren't
Speaker 1: you know, telling her like, oh, you should be back
Speaker 1: in the village cooking, you know, like it kind of
Speaker 1: would have made sense because Nate, you know, I grew
Speaker 1: up kind of like I have brothers and sisters, um,
Speaker 1: and we used to fight and you know, like where
Speaker 1: I'm talking punching somebody's bleeding and you know, so it
Speaker 1: would have made sense if they were treating her as
Speaker 1: an equal, like a sister, and they were kind of
Speaker 1: like wrestling around and you know, fighting, it would have
Speaker 1: made sense, you know. But the fact that there was
Speaker 1: this very misogynistic tone to it didn't make sense. Like
Speaker 1: if they were if she was fighting them to prove
Speaker 1: that she could right like hanging with the boys, it
Speaker 1: would have been different because that's something that totally happens,
Speaker 1: like you you fight with your brothers to show you're
Speaker 1: just as stronger, just as good as you know, right right.
Speaker 1: But that misogynistic tone just was like there are a
Speaker 1: few lines that felt very like c w e in
Speaker 1: just like the oversimplification of the missile, like I mean
Speaker 1: just sort of echoing what you're saying. But then in
Speaker 1: the relationship with Naro and Tabe, there were moments where
Speaker 1: it felt like that, like it became it worked for
Speaker 1: me a lot better when he was doubting her because
Speaker 1: she was his younger sibling versus like you are a
Speaker 1: woman and I don't respect you. Yeah, And it wasn't
Speaker 1: just that they were doubting her ability to because if
Speaker 1: you watch it in command she, like I said, you
Speaker 1: get more nuanced and you kind of understand that they're
Speaker 1: not worried about whether or not she can do it.
Speaker 1: They're worried about whether or not she's doing it for
Speaker 1: the right reasons, and whether or not she understands what
Speaker 1: it is she's doing and what it means. And because
Speaker 1: like for her, you know, it is kind of like
Speaker 1: a rebellion. She's stubborn, she's headstrong, and she you know,
Speaker 1: like she she knows she wants to do this, and
Speaker 1: you know, there's even a part where her mom tells
Speaker 1: her that, you know, you want to take Katamiyah. And
Speaker 1: you think that it's only about the hunt and the kill,
Speaker 1: but the whole point of it is survival. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's not about just going out and hunting. It's about
Speaker 1: knowing how to survive. And you know, when you're talking
Speaker 1: it about survival, that's not just knowing when to fight,
Speaker 1: but also when to retreat. Because that was you know,
Speaker 1: when they had this conversation. It was after they went
Speaker 1: hunting for the Mountain Lion, and you know, like she
Speaker 1: almost died. And even her brother, you know, when he's
Speaker 1: trying to give her share credit, he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: like we did it. And then of course Naru is
Speaker 1: kind of being brad and you know, because like I
Speaker 1: think it is since she thinks her brother took her
Speaker 1: victory from her or her opportunity. So and you know,
Speaker 1: and then he's like, you know what, fine, we didn't
Speaker 1: do this. I did this, and you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of like trying to kind of taking it back from
Speaker 1: her like this entitlement. I guess, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: I was trying to share this with you. But if
Speaker 1: you're going to be that way, no, like if you're
Speaker 1: going to love her, jet to put yourself in danger again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and then of course you know what did she do.
Speaker 1: She took off and she put herself into dange But
Speaker 1: you know, I thought it was a good way to
Speaker 1: kind of show that nuance. You know that they were
Speaker 1: genuinely just more worried that she was rushing into something
Speaker 1: that she didn't understand. And you know, and when you're
Speaker 1: coming doing coming of age ceremonies or when you're going
Speaker 1: into ceremony in our communities, you know, knowing what you're
Speaker 1: getting into and the responsibilities that come with it um
Speaker 1: are very important and it's something that's very stressed. You know,
Speaker 1: like they don't want you just to jump into it
Speaker 1: just because you think it's cool or you know, to
Speaker 1: be trendy or to be different or whatever. Um, they
Speaker 1: really want you to understand, you know what the meaning
Speaker 1: of the ceremony is that and you go into it
Speaker 1: with the right kind of mind, your heart's right. So
Speaker 1: I really thought that was kind of like a really
Speaker 1: smart way to kind of show that, you know, that
Speaker 1: they wanted her to understand what it is she was
Speaker 1: undertaking and the responsibilities that come with that. The conversations
Speaker 1: with like Tabi and you know Nauru were so beautiful
Speaker 1: to me because that was the perfect sibling like conversations.
Speaker 1: You know, the brother trying to impart wisdom and she's
Speaker 1: over there pretending to snore, and you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: there was just so many things that were beautiful about that.
Speaker 1: But I really loved that they were kind of showing
Speaker 1: that care, and I wish they would have kind of
Speaker 1: carried that over to where the rest of the hunting
Speaker 1: party or the rest of the people in the village,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of had that same mindset too, instead
Speaker 1: of adding that misogynistic kind of viewpoint in there, you know,
Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, you you know, why are
Speaker 1: you here? You know, it's we're not going to be
Speaker 1: out here long. We don't need to cook, you know,
Speaker 1: we need a Yeah, that one, I was just like, okay,
Speaker 1: rolling a little bit of that. I think those scenes
Speaker 1: could have also worked if the narrative had been kind
Speaker 1: of adjusted so that because what's happening is that she
Speaker 1: is is like, because she's such a good tracker, she's
Speaker 1: noticing all these kind of peculiar things, right like the
Speaker 1: skin snake and the the large footprint, and she's like,
Speaker 1: there's something else out here. It seems like, you know,
Speaker 1: a monster from like our folklore. And of course if
Speaker 1: someone tells you that, it's going to be difficult to believe,
Speaker 1: especially like they know these lands very well, they know
Speaker 1: the wildlife So if it had just been them sort
Speaker 1: of being like, well, like, it doesn't sound like you're
Speaker 1: talking about something that's real, so that it's like we're
Speaker 1: having a trouble believing you. And and of course they
Speaker 1: would have trouble because this thing that she's encountering is
Speaker 1: like not of this world, like not something they're familiar with.
Speaker 1: So even if something like that had been more leaned
Speaker 1: into if it's like, well, yeah, we're not taking you
Speaker 1: seriously because you're describing something that doesn't exist, or that
Speaker 1: like we're not aware of yeah, or even if they
Speaker 1: had been joking about it, like even if the tone,
Speaker 1: like the delivery of the lines was less violent, less angry, Um,
Speaker 1: I think it would have played out like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: just joking with her and you know, kind of hazing
Speaker 1: a little bit like brothers and sisters do. And I
Speaker 1: would have made a little more sense to me. But
Speaker 1: like that that violent undertone with everything and how they
Speaker 1: interacted with her, you know, just didn't really sit well
Speaker 1: with me, Um, and I but I understand, you know,
Speaker 1: they had to do that more for like the mass market,
Speaker 1: for other people to to understand like what what this
Speaker 1: is and to kind of have that conflict like beyond
Speaker 1: her just fighting a predator, So like I kind of
Speaker 1: understand it, but at the same time, like I don't
Speaker 1: like it, but it's still it does feel like kind
Speaker 1: of insidious and bizarre that like to make a movie
Speaker 1: mass market of all, you have to layer on white
Speaker 1: Christian misogynist oppression onto a story. You're like, why there's
Speaker 1: because it does like feel like the story has if
Speaker 1: you take away like you're saying, Johnny, like the tone
Speaker 1: of a lot of those interactions and just like some
Speaker 1: of the like kind of overwritten lines that are are
Speaker 1: lobbed at nar like everything you need is there to
Speaker 1: understand why things are playing out the way they are.
Speaker 1: In addition to like something that I like that isn't
Speaker 1: said constantly, but I felt like you could feel was
Speaker 1: like this family has already endured a loss, so of
Speaker 1: course they're going to be worried about a very headstrong
Speaker 1: family member because they've already lost somebody. Like that is
Speaker 1: a very universal dynamic. I don't understand why this stuff
Speaker 1: had to be added. And there was a really beautiful
Speaker 1: scene to um when Naru first started just heading out
Speaker 1: of the village. They kind of did the overseens like
Speaker 1: the overhead shot where she's walking out of the village
Speaker 1: but all everybody else is walking in. And it was
Speaker 1: a very beautiful shot because for me, you know, Indigenous
Speaker 1: communities have always been communital, a communal. You know, you
Speaker 1: everything is for the betterment of the community. You don't
Speaker 1: have people just going off on their own and doing
Speaker 1: their own thing because they have a responsibility to the community.
Speaker 1: So it was a beautiful way, and it could be
Speaker 1: taken two ways, right because you could see it as
Speaker 1: her going against the norms. You know, she's going off
Speaker 1: on her own, she's daring to be different kind of thing,
Speaker 1: like you could get that out of that shot. But
Speaker 1: one of the things that I got out of it
Speaker 1: was you kind of see where her family's worry was
Speaker 1: valid because you know, she's she is being headstrong, she
Speaker 1: is being stubborn, and she's going out on her own, unprotected,
Speaker 1: without any backup, without letting anybody know. And you know
Speaker 1: she while she does have her own valid reasons for
Speaker 1: doing so, it kind of validates that concern that her
Speaker 1: brother and her mother had. You know that she doesn't
Speaker 1: understand what it is she's undertaking, and she really doesn't
Speaker 1: you know, like when she's out there, you know, she
Speaker 1: starts to understand like, oh, this is bigger than I
Speaker 1: thought it was, Like this is different, this is more
Speaker 1: dangerous um and realizing like I'm not equipped to deal
Speaker 1: with this, like I wasn't prepared for this, and you
Speaker 1: can kind of see that, and you kind of see
Speaker 1: that development too, like thank goodness she's observant, because that
Speaker 1: could have ended so badly if she wasn't. But the
Speaker 1: fact that she was able to watch and to really
Speaker 1: learn and you know, just kind of helped her survive
Speaker 1: this entire ordeal with the predator. But it could have
Speaker 1: ended so different because she went out just like you know,
Speaker 1: there's something out there, but I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to go out there with my dog,
Speaker 1: you know, and not let anybody know because it's not
Speaker 1: like she had a cell phone to call for help,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was really interesting for me to
Speaker 1: see how they showed that and just how different, like
Speaker 1: your perspective is going to be depending on your own
Speaker 1: personal viewpoints or perspectives and experiences when you're watching this movie,
Speaker 1: like you're going to read into it some something different,
Speaker 1: like there's several different ways that everything can be taken
Speaker 1: um which I think is one of the most genius
Speaker 1: things about the film is because if you're watching it
Speaker 1: from a Native perspective, it's going to be very your
Speaker 1: experience is very different than a non Native who's watching
Speaker 1: the same scene, Like it's You're going to get two
Speaker 1: different things out of it. So I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: that was a really beautiful thing. But also again it
Speaker 1: could be a little problematic. But I'm going with the
Speaker 1: positive here. Well, I mean, especially like Native audiences seem
Speaker 1: to generally agree that this movie is is a pretty
Speaker 1: big step forward as far as Native representation goes in media,
Speaker 1: especially considering how how low the bar is. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: most American media has portrayed Indigenous people very unfavorably, like
Speaker 1: a lot of racist stereotypes being leaned into Native characters
Speaker 1: being played by white actors, stories being told from the
Speaker 1: point of view of white characters where the Native characters
Speaker 1: are on the sideline, or just being used as set dressing.
Speaker 1: I mean the list goes on right or only validated
Speaker 1: as characters once they ally with the white characters. And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and you know, that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that I was kind of worried about, like from the
Speaker 1: very get go, and I was so glad to be
Speaker 1: proven wrong in a lot of regards. Um. But I'm
Speaker 1: also one of those people, you know, I practice what
Speaker 1: I like to call critical nerd theory um, and it's
Speaker 1: being able to watch and consume our media and being
Speaker 1: able to be critical about like the problems within that
Speaker 1: media while also like acknowledging like you can still love this,
Speaker 1: you know, like it doesn't mean that you have to
Speaker 1: throw it all away because it's not perfect. That's pretty
Speaker 1: much the thesis of our podcast. Yeah. Yeah, Like this
Speaker 1: was such a milestone for the Commanche nation in terms
Speaker 1: of the way that their tribe has been portrayed in movies.
Speaker 1: This is one of the only movies that has really
Speaker 1: portrayed Comanche people. Well. Um, And I was laughing because
Speaker 1: you know, again, I'm a horror nerd and I was
Speaker 1: thinking back too. I was trying to think, like, is
Speaker 1: there another movie where Comanche people have been mentioned or portrayed?
Speaker 1: And yes there is. And it's a movie that I
Speaker 1: loved growing up and I recently found it on YouTube
Speaker 1: and it did not age. Well. It is so bad.
Speaker 1: It's called the Seller. Oh I read about this movie.
Speaker 1: I have not seen it before. Yeah, it's this it's
Speaker 1: an old movie. I believe it was, like I think
Speaker 1: it came out around the same time as The First Predator. Actually, um,
Speaker 1: it may be in a couple of years later, but
Speaker 1: it's around that same time. And you know, it's about
Speaker 1: a family that moves into this you know, the dad
Speaker 1: lost his job and you know, he's got to take
Speaker 1: this oil rig job and they move out into the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere and there's a monster in the area
Speaker 1: that is has been kind of kept dormant. You know
Speaker 1: that there's a native man and he's he's been kind
Speaker 1: of tasked with making sure that this creature stays dormant,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's got spears and grounds to keep
Speaker 1: it underground. And of course, you know, the the white
Speaker 1: guy and his kid see one of the spears and
Speaker 1: the kids like, Dad, can I have it? And he's like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: go ahead, take it. The kid takes it, and all
Speaker 1: hell is unleashed. But the monster, you know in this
Speaker 1: movie was the Comanche, and some of the other tribes
Speaker 1: in the area were you know, trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to get rid of the white men, and so
Speaker 1: they created this monster called um coguy. I think it
Speaker 1: was um. I might be butchering the pronunciation, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's coguay. And it was a mix of all these
Speaker 1: different animals like lions and alligators and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to kill the white man and
Speaker 1: you know, and one of the guys was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, if it if it was supposed to protect
Speaker 1: the natives, you know, why are you guys keeping it
Speaker 1: locked up? And the guy's like, well, it started killing
Speaker 1: indians too. So it's so bad that I had not
Speaker 1: heard of that movie before I read about it referenced
Speaker 1: does yeah a movie that did not age very well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I watched it on a YouTube and I was
Speaker 1: just like, how is this one of my favorite movies?
Speaker 1: Because I used to watch it every time it came
Speaker 1: on and I would just be so excited to watch it. So,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the only other horror movie that has
Speaker 1: made really made mention of Comanche people, and it was
Speaker 1: just terrible. So for them to have prey, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a huge step up. But also just the way
Speaker 1: that this movie is something that is not only kind
Speaker 1: of showing the Comanche culture and a lot of different
Speaker 1: ways UM, but also helping with language preservation. You know,
Speaker 1: this is something that young people who are looking to
Speaker 1: learn their language can see this movie and be like
Speaker 1: more inspired to learn their language, to see it used
Speaker 1: in a more modern context, rather than it being something
Speaker 1: that's just always put in the past. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: I wanted to, yeah, go into that a little bit,
Speaker 1: or just more into the production history of this movie.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about it a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I just want to jump in so I believe
Speaker 1: this is the first movie to be completely dubbed in
Speaker 1: commanche by all of the actors are doing their own dubs.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed like the reading about I mean, Amber
Speaker 1: mid Thunder has given some really fabulous email or interviews, emails,
Speaker 1: Jamie interviews. She's been sending emails. She's on fire, but
Speaker 1: really amazing UM insights into how the movie was produced,
Speaker 1: and like even just reading about her AX training and
Speaker 1: all the practical stuff she did because she they put
Speaker 1: her in the fucking trenches. But reading about how Amber
Speaker 1: mid Thunder and other UM actors in the movie were,
Speaker 1: you know, either knew some ord had to be taught
Speaker 1: how to do their own dubs. I thought, was like,
Speaker 1: so incredible, So get this. So um. Dan Trackenberg had
Speaker 1: originally pitched the movie to only be in Commanche, and
Speaker 1: so when they were holding auditions for the roles, like
Speaker 1: they would come in and they were doing their lines
Speaker 1: in English, but then they literally handed them the script
Speaker 1: right then and there in Comanche, with no direction on
Speaker 1: how to say the words or anything, because they wanted
Speaker 1: to see how well they would be able just to
Speaker 1: read it and make, you know, like how well they'd
Speaker 1: be able to work it out and um, because that
Speaker 1: would kind of give the an idea of how quickly
Speaker 1: they would be able to learn the Commanche language or
Speaker 1: their proficiency. And so I was kind of shocked because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I would have just
Speaker 1: died right then and there right you know, like you're
Speaker 1: like they give they give you the script in English
Speaker 1: and you do your lines and you're like, I killed it.
Speaker 1: Then they're like wait wait a second, an there you go,
Speaker 1: and yeah, and it's in a language that you've never
Speaker 1: seen before or never heard spoken. I would have died,
Speaker 1: like I would have been like oh what, I was like.
Speaker 1: Auditions are stressful enough as it is, like oh my god,
Speaker 1: and then they have to do it in a foreign language,
Speaker 1: you know, like without any direction or anything. Um. So
Speaker 1: I thought that was really unique and a testament to
Speaker 1: the talent of this caste, to the cast because they
Speaker 1: all had to learn commanche, and you know, the command
Speaker 1: She Language Department, the Commanding Nation Language Department, did such
Speaker 1: a phenomenal job in teaching them. Because you know, there's
Speaker 1: been other native productions and they're really good, um Dark
Speaker 1: Winds for example. You know, like the story is good,
Speaker 1: the acting is good, but when it comes to incorporating
Speaker 1: the language, you know, there were a lot of Avajo
Speaker 1: people who were kind of criticizing how the language was used,
Speaker 1: like it was things weren't being said right or you know,
Speaker 1: from the right um perspective. I guess, um, because in
Speaker 1: a lot of our native languages, there's differences in the
Speaker 1: way that you say things for men and for women.
Speaker 1: So you know, like there's there's variations on words that
Speaker 1: only a man you know, that's what the way he
Speaker 1: would say it, and then there's you know, the way
Speaker 1: a woman would say it. You know, so there's like
Speaker 1: a gender difference in our language. And so you know,
Speaker 1: that also comes into play when you hear our languages
Speaker 1: being spoken, because sometimes you're cracking up dances with wolves,
Speaker 1: they use some lacoda words, but the way that they
Speaker 1: used them was from a woman's perspective, the way a
Speaker 1: woman would say those words. So there were a lot
Speaker 1: of people you know that still make fun of that,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, you know, he's he's talking like
Speaker 1: a woman. So you know, like there's there's it's really
Speaker 1: hard to get native languages correct because oftentimes, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not natives from those tribes speaking those languages, so
Speaker 1: they really don't know any different. So for the Commanding
Speaker 1: Nation Language Department to be as involved as they were,
Speaker 1: and for the time that they took, you know, to
Speaker 1: really make sure that the actors were learning the language,
Speaker 1: learning the pronunciation um really just kind of showed the
Speaker 1: care that was going into this production. But also, you know,
Speaker 1: Amber mid Thunder has talked about it too that she
Speaker 1: was really worried about taking on this movie because she
Speaker 1: was scared of how Indian country would respond to it.
Speaker 1: Like she wanted to do it right, she wanted to
Speaker 1: do it justice, and you know she had she worried,
Speaker 1: you know, she was like when I first got this
Speaker 1: and I found out is a Predator movie, She's like
Speaker 1: I cried, you know, not She's like and not tears
Speaker 1: of happy, but like just kind of like I was worried,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh no, like this is a huge
Speaker 1: franchise and I can't be the one to mess at EBB.
Speaker 1: Well that and I imagine, you know, there's so much
Speaker 1: pressure put on Indigenous actors, actors from really any marginalized
Speaker 1: community to represent their community well because there's just so
Speaker 1: few examples in media of positive representations of those people
Speaker 1: of those communities. So it's just again speaks to a
Speaker 1: need for more stories to exist. Um. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: I imagine part of it was like this this pressure
Speaker 1: to represent her community. Well, I mean I can't imagine. Um.
Speaker 1: I wanted to share a couple of quotes, Um, Amber
Speaker 1: mid Thunder. I, Um, I've seen her in in stuff before. Um,
Speaker 1: but this was I think the first like big leading
Speaker 1: role I had seen her in. Um, except I did
Speaker 1: watch Roswell in New Mexico. I really liked that show. Wow. Anyways,
Speaker 1: uh so she has she's from an acting family, and
Speaker 1: uh so I read a few things about just sort
Speaker 1: of how she has, you know, born witness kind of
Speaker 1: her whole life to how Indigenous people are represented in
Speaker 1: movies and in TV, and how those talks, what those
Speaker 1: talks were like in her family. So I just wanted
Speaker 1: to share some quotes from her. Here's one, uh quote.
Speaker 1: When you're represented by something you can't relate to or
Speaker 1: feel represent you poorly, that does affect you. My dad
Speaker 1: is an actor, but even still we would have a
Speaker 1: lot of conversations about how that was really not the
Speaker 1: way to do it, or ha ha, this is what
Speaker 1: they gave us to wear. Growing up, my parents handled
Speaker 1: it like an inside joke rather than being constantly hurt
Speaker 1: or offended by stuff. But getting old are in looking
Speaker 1: at it, I can see the importance of representing things
Speaker 1: accurately and respectfully on film, especially because to someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't grow up in an indigenous community or really close
Speaker 1: to one, it's maybe the only source of information unquote.
Speaker 1: Another major behind the scenes player I wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure we shouted out and spoke about a little bit
Speaker 1: was Jane Yes. Jane Myers is a producer on this film.
Speaker 1: She is a Comanche woman. Uh and she it sounds
Speaker 1: like I mean, I found like a bunch of different
Speaker 1: examples of things she had done, different representations of just like,
Speaker 1: for example, horses or the original draft of the movie
Speaker 1: there was like no horses involved in. Jane Myers was like,
Speaker 1: there has to be a horse like that, just basics
Speaker 1: to her culture that you know, this movie, it should
Speaker 1: be Z is written and directed by white guys. Still,
Speaker 1: and so while I think it's really really critical that
Speaker 1: there is a commanche producer on the movie, it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, what would they have done without her? It's
Speaker 1: so messed up a lot more things. We'd be having
Speaker 1: a very different conversation. Yeah, and joking quite a bit
Speaker 1: more about this movie. Yes, yes, yes, um so yeah.
Speaker 1: It was written. It was directed by Dan Tractonberg, who's
Speaker 1: best known for ten Cloverfield Lane, I believe, which I
Speaker 1: did love that movie. It is fun um and written
Speaker 1: by Patrick asan An not really sure how to pronounce
Speaker 1: his last name. Um. But these are two white men.
Speaker 1: And while I think it's largely agreed that the movie
Speaker 1: is well researched, and you know, they listened to producer
Speaker 1: Jane Myers and you know, did as much research as possible,
Speaker 1: worked with their cast to work with the convention nation like,
Speaker 1: but still two white guys, Still two white guys. And
Speaker 1: I think the conversation we had earlier about um, this
Speaker 1: kind of insertion of gender roles and and sexism that
Speaker 1: is not authentic to indigenous communities would probably have not
Speaker 1: been in the movie had been written and directed by
Speaker 1: indigenous filmmakers. So, and we've talked about this on the
Speaker 1: podcast quite a bit before about how it feels like
Speaker 1: we are in this phase of Hollywood right now where
Speaker 1: it seems like Hollywood is finally listening to and doing
Speaker 1: something about the strong demand for stories that aren't just
Speaker 1: about cis at white men. But those are the only
Speaker 1: people that they are still allowing to make movies. Obviously
Speaker 1: I'm exaggerating. Creators of many different backgrounds are being given
Speaker 1: more opportunities than before, but just like the very gate
Speaker 1: keeper nature of Hollywood, Yeah, and it's and it's also
Speaker 1: like thinking about the quality of the opportunities that they
Speaker 1: are being given because I feel like, you know, they
Speaker 1: like to jump on the bandwagon, you know, Native representation.
Speaker 1: It's a hot topic right now, and we've seen the
Speaker 1: success of Rutherford Falls and reservation Dogs and you know,
Speaker 1: Dark Winds came out, and of course Pray and you know,
Speaker 1: like these are critically acclaimed series and movies now, and
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, Hollywood is always like trying
Speaker 1: to jump on that next best thing. So now they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, there is a market for this, so
Speaker 1: let's go with it. And they're given Natives opportunities, but
Speaker 1: they're also not while the opportunity is there, they're not
Speaker 1: necessarily getting the support they need for those productions to
Speaker 1: be as successful as they could be. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: we recently saw the cancelation of Rutherford Falls, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that is a perfect example of that because
Speaker 1: like there wasn't a lot of advertisement. Um, there wasn't
Speaker 1: a lot of marketing anywhere for Rutherford Falls, like for
Speaker 1: a while, like with season two. UM, I saw maybe
Speaker 1: a couple of posters on a couple of US ops
Speaker 1: and I think they had a bus at at one point.
Speaker 1: But that's the only promotion that I saw outside of
Speaker 1: Indian Country, UM, outside of Native people really pushing the show.
Speaker 1: And it almost felt like the responsibility was put on,
Speaker 1: you know, the show runners and the writers and the
Speaker 1: actors to really try and make the show as successful
Speaker 1: as they could do, but they didn't have studio support,
Speaker 1: Like they didn't have the money behind them to really
Speaker 1: make that show successful as it could have been. And
Speaker 1: then of course, you know, they kind of get punished
Speaker 1: for the impact, which is, you know, not having the viewership.
Speaker 1: But I think if more people had been able to
Speaker 1: see some kind of marketing or some kind of push
Speaker 1: for it, you know, it could be just as successful
Speaker 1: as Reservation Dogs and as Prey because Rutherford Falls was
Speaker 1: so beautiful. Um, the second season was amazing to me. Um.
Speaker 1: There's a dirty dancing gomage too that's just freaking killed it. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's also a party scene where they have like what
Speaker 1: I call a condiment throw down, where you have some
Speaker 1: Native women that are all dressed as condiments because the
Speaker 1: hot guys in a hot dog suit. And then they're
Speaker 1: all fighting over this guy and he doesn't even know
Speaker 1: they're fighting over him, which I find hilarious. Special to me,
Speaker 1: it is, it is such a special show, and I
Speaker 1: wish they would have had the support. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's kind of the worry now, is that so
Speaker 1: many studios are going to be giving natives the opportunity
Speaker 1: to do these shows and taking that chance, but then
Speaker 1: the responsibility of the success of those shows is also
Speaker 1: going to be put on the show runners. And then,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, when it comes to marginalized people,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't oftentimes get a second chance. You know,
Speaker 1: we only have that one chance, and if you're not successful,
Speaker 1: you're not getting another chance. Meanwhile, you know, if it
Speaker 1: was a white show runner, you know they can make
Speaker 1: a bad show after bad show after bad show and
Speaker 1: keep getting opportunity after opportunity, and not only opportunity, but
Speaker 1: the marketing to try and make those things successful for
Speaker 1: inferior shows. Yeah, exactly, because I guarantee you if Pray
Speaker 1: did not have Dan Tracknenburg attached to it, we wouldn't
Speaker 1: be having this conversation. It wouldn't be the production that
Speaker 1: it is. Um Like, the studio wouldn't have invested the
Speaker 1: money that they did for the marketing. Because I mean,
Speaker 1: it was incredible here in l A. Because just driving
Speaker 1: to the supermarket, you passed reservation boards billboards, and then
Speaker 1: you pre you're passing prey billboards and like there's still
Speaker 1: prey billboards up now, And it's such an incredible thing
Speaker 1: to to be native in l A and to be
Speaker 1: just driving around and you're and like Native Film, Native show,
Speaker 1: you know, and to see them getting that marketing because
Speaker 1: you know, those billboards are not cheap and they're not
Speaker 1: the tiny little billboards like these are massive billboards. And
Speaker 1: one of the prey billboards that I saw actually had
Speaker 1: like where the red lights were were actually lit up
Speaker 1: kind of reflective. Yeah, so I was like wow, Like
Speaker 1: they went out and of course, you know, they were
Speaker 1: really mindful to try and include Native journalists and the
Speaker 1: marketing and the press um, you know, and I think
Speaker 1: that was so phenomenal because that doesn't happen with a
Speaker 1: lot of other shows, even if Natives are included, like
Speaker 1: we're not included. So they so this entire production was
Speaker 1: really intentful in making sure that Native people were included
Speaker 1: in almost every aspect of the rollout and development. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's really special, and I feel like Hollywood
Speaker 1: needs to do a better job of giving us, you know,
Speaker 1: full support, not just the opportunity, but making sure that
Speaker 1: you know, we're supported behind the scenes and also you know,
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to to kind of learn um because
Speaker 1: I feel so many of the time they're they're giving
Speaker 1: people like the opportunity, but they expect you to go
Speaker 1: in and just know what you're doing. But you know,
Speaker 1: not a lot of people have, you know, familiarity with
Speaker 1: how marketing works or with you know, how you're going
Speaker 1: to push the film. And it's just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of support, like the
Speaker 1: opportunities there now, but now we don't have the support,
Speaker 1: and the support is kind of like a major component
Speaker 1: to success. So it's kind of a catch twenty two
Speaker 1: because I feel I don't want to see a lot
Speaker 1: of really amazing Native talent being given this opportunity but
Speaker 1: then being just spit out, you know, if they don't
Speaker 1: have the support they need and it's as successful right
Speaker 1: off the back is like reservation dogs, right, And it's
Speaker 1: I I think that that's like such we've we've tried
Speaker 1: to touch on this in the show before, but the
Speaker 1: like the idea that there's not that institutional support for
Speaker 1: Native filmmakers that there is for Dan Trachtenburg, Like we
Speaker 1: need to get to a place where you don't need
Speaker 1: the endorsement of a Dan Tractenburg in order to get
Speaker 1: the institutional support that Prey did. Like it's just and
Speaker 1: it feels like we're still very very much stuck in
Speaker 1: that gate keeping aspect, like that has not been overcome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and it's very different for us too, because you know,
Speaker 1: I recently did an interview with with Monique Jones, and
Speaker 1: you know, she asked me like, well, do you think
Speaker 1: there's going to be more Native content now? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: there is an incredible amount of Native content now and
Speaker 1: there always has been because we have two different film
Speaker 1: industries for for Natives, Like we have Hollywood, the Hollywood industry,
Speaker 1: but we also have our own Native film industry because
Speaker 1: we've been kept out of Hollywood for so long that
Speaker 1: in order for our creatives to have that opportunity, we
Speaker 1: had to create it ourselves. So there is a thriving
Speaker 1: Native film community and industry, like we have so many
Speaker 1: different film festivals. You know, like Sterlett har Jo, a
Speaker 1: lot of people are just now hearing about him for
Speaker 1: Reservation Dogs, but he has an incredible body of work
Speaker 1: behind him, like award winning movies and shows that he's
Speaker 1: worked on, that he's written for, and he's really well known.
Speaker 1: A lot of the talent that you see in the
Speaker 1: show for for everybody else, you know, their newcomers. But
Speaker 1: for us, like they're some of them are legendary, you know,
Speaker 1: and so like there's this two different industries and they
Speaker 1: operate very differently from each other. And you know, like
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who are you know,
Speaker 1: who are very successful in our native film industry, you know,
Speaker 1: they're a little more easily able to adapt to the
Speaker 1: Hollywood industry. Um. But if you're a new, newcoming, upcoming
Speaker 1: talent and you don't have experience, like this is your
Speaker 1: first opportunity, you know, it's it's going to be a
Speaker 1: cult not only a culture shock, but just you know,
Speaker 1: a huge risk to the entire rest of your career
Speaker 1: like that to make it or break it thing, because
Speaker 1: you're not getting a second opportunity within the industry once
Speaker 1: they think like, oh, well we gave you your shot,
Speaker 1: you're not really worth developing, and you know, like they
Speaker 1: just spit people out. And I think that's such a
Speaker 1: hard pill to swallow because we have so many talented
Speaker 1: Natives out here who have been working in Hollywood for
Speaker 1: quite a few years, decades even and you know, they
Speaker 1: they're still not getting the opportunity to to run their
Speaker 1: own shows even though they've worked on you know, white
Speaker 1: rent shows, white creative shows. Um, but they've never been
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to really push their own. It's and
Speaker 1: it's really kind of heartbreaking too, you know, like I
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen the show Young
Speaker 1: and Hungry. Um, yes, I love that show so much,
Speaker 1: And just like I think it was last year I
Speaker 1: learned that they had a Native writer and you see
Speaker 1: his name on every single episode, and I'm like, how
Speaker 1: did I miss that? I would have loved that movie
Speaker 1: even or the show even more if I had realized
Speaker 1: put two to two. But you know, like, and you
Speaker 1: see that now that I know that, I watch and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's a Native writer. Oh that's a
Speaker 1: Native person. And I'm thinking, like, how is it that
Speaker 1: they've worked on all these incredible shows yet they have
Speaker 1: not been given the opportunity to do their own. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's just it's kind of frustrating. But also I realized, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I understand, like colonization has done such a
Speaker 1: really good job at making Native people invisible on our
Speaker 1: own homelands. So it's a different type of struggle because
Speaker 1: if you look at the Canadian film industry too, it's
Speaker 1: very different from our own. Um, it's nothing for Native
Speaker 1: people in Canada to be able to be cast on
Speaker 1: a show. And while they are native, it's not what
Speaker 1: revolve like their character doesn't revolve around them being native.
Speaker 1: They just happened to be a doctor who happens to
Speaker 1: be Native. Like it's very normalized. Um, But here in
Speaker 1: the US were always mothered and we're always you know,
Speaker 1: kind of portrayed very differently or they have to rely
Speaker 1: on these stereotypical tropes in order for them to have
Speaker 1: a native character. And so it's like our progress is
Speaker 1: very different and we're finally starting to catch up a little,
Speaker 1: but we're still so far behind. And it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of like how how how do we foster
Speaker 1: a better environment for that? You know? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: part of it too is that, like you mentioned, um,
Speaker 1: Hollywood is is seeing indigenous stories is like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: so hot right now, you know, And and if it's hot,
Speaker 1: it's going to be profitable. And Hollywood is also very
Speaker 1: averse to risk for profit reasons. And I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of Hollywood executives still see, for example, allowing
Speaker 1: an indigenous filmmaker to tell their own story as a risk.
Speaker 1: They view that as something that's christy because they don't
Speaker 1: think it would be relatable enough to a widespread audience.
Speaker 1: And they want a widespread audience because that will make
Speaker 1: them more money. So yeah, and and and you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to find a balance with that too,
Speaker 1: because it's like, come on, you guys, Like how many
Speaker 1: millions of dollars did you guys give to Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: for the Mummy? You know, oh my gosh, come on, right,
Speaker 1: And even like the concept of risk averse as defined
Speaker 1: by a lot of executives, it's just like absolute horseshit,
Speaker 1: because like, how is it more aversive risk to have
Speaker 1: like a mediocre like guy director like in a story
Speaker 1: that he like, it's like not a good match in
Speaker 1: an he went like it just it bothers me so much.
Speaker 1: When it's like, well this is less of a risk,
Speaker 1: You're like, this guy sucks like his track, look at
Speaker 1: his like a heavy page. He's not good, like, but
Speaker 1: he gets opportunity after opportunity after opportunity, And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: what the heck? But you know it's I mean, we've
Speaker 1: made progress, and I feel like, you know, we kind
Speaker 1: of have to acknowledge that progress too and kind of
Speaker 1: celebrate it because I think we also know that when
Speaker 1: you have a male dominated industry, it really runs on ego.
Speaker 1: So I feel like we kind of have to celebrate
Speaker 1: the winds because it's an ego thing for them. If
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, look, we got accolades for this. You know,
Speaker 1: I did the bare minimum and they're giving me cookies,
Speaker 1: then they're more likely to keep doing it. So so
Speaker 1: I try and I try to be very careful about
Speaker 1: this too, because I used to go really hardcore with
Speaker 1: my criticism, not really thinking about the larger impact because
Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, you know, I'm not an industry like,
Speaker 1: I'm not like known in their industry or whatever. But
Speaker 1: I kind of got an eye opening experience back when, um,
Speaker 1: when they were doing Pan and you know, they cast
Speaker 1: Rooney Mara as Tiger Lily, and a course, is that backlash?
Speaker 1: And you know, I had created the hashtag not your
Speaker 1: Tiger Lily to kind of discuss the whitewashing that happens
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, but also, you know, to kind of discuss
Speaker 1: the problematic nature of Tiger Lily and how you know
Speaker 1: she's this just a victim and then of course you
Speaker 1: they constantly are doing this problematic character and they keep
Speaker 1: doing Peter Pan and it's a problematic story anyway, but
Speaker 1: you know, it has very racist origins towards Indigenous people,
Speaker 1: like even in the book, and it hasn't gotten better
Speaker 1: in the depictions that we see on screen. The only
Speaker 1: difference is now that they're casting Native people as Tiger
Speaker 1: Lily as kind of like an appeasement, but they're not
Speaker 1: making the story or her character any better. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: you know, like I kind of wanted to bring attention
Speaker 1: to that. And one of the things that I found
Speaker 1: so hilarious about that was I realized that studios use
Speaker 1: our criticism as Native people as an excuse to not
Speaker 1: fund Native creative projects if they think that, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a potential for backlash here. Um. And I got that
Speaker 1: eye opening experience because I had noticed on my Twitter,
Speaker 1: like you know, it was already like months after um
Speaker 1: the casting had been announced, and actually I think it
Speaker 1: was like right before the release of the movie. I
Speaker 1: noticed that there were all these reporters starting to follow
Speaker 1: me out of l A. And I was living in
Speaker 1: Oklahoma at the time, so that was really weird to me.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what the heck is going on?
Speaker 1: And finally I got a message on my Twitter asking,
Speaker 1: you know, to call this reporter. She's like, I really
Speaker 1: like to talk to you, and I was like okay,
Speaker 1: So like I called because I was like curious about
Speaker 1: why these reporters were following me all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: and the studio had I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: a press release or in some interview that they had
Speaker 1: done or some conversation somewhere, they had mentioned a potential
Speaker 1: for that I was organizing a protest for the premiere,
Speaker 1: and so they were anticipating Natives to show up in
Speaker 1: protest at the premiere and I'm like what. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not even in l A, like I've been Homa.
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, you know, we were told
Speaker 1: that you're organizing this protest and I was like no.
Speaker 1: I was like, why would I kind of bring more
Speaker 1: attention to a film I'm trying to not bring attention
Speaker 1: to or to avoid, like because you know, Hollywood kind
Speaker 1: of operates on this any publicity is good publicity kind
Speaker 1: of thing. And it was really weird because she was
Speaker 1: just like, well, you know, we heard this um and
Speaker 1: she's like, you know, so we really want to learn
Speaker 1: more about this protest and why you don't think this film.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, this is weird. And um
Speaker 1: I was asking somebody else and they were like, well yeah.
Speaker 1: She was like, this is kind of like how they
Speaker 1: generate buzz for their film. You know, if they can
Speaker 1: find any anything that could pique interest in the movie, like,
Speaker 1: they're going to use it. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: that's really weird. I said, because I'm in Oklahoma, you
Speaker 1: think they would have done their homework first to make
Speaker 1: sure it was feasible. And she's like, oh, she's like no.
Speaker 1: She was just like, it's it's just what they do.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, like and I started asking her
Speaker 1: because she's worked in Hollywood for quite a while, and
Speaker 1: I started asking her questions, and you know, she was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, anytime that they see bad press coming out
Speaker 1: of out of like in in country, you know, they
Speaker 1: kind of use that as an excuse to pull funding
Speaker 1: or to not fund projects, to not give people the
Speaker 1: opportunity because they don't want that drama. Um. She's like,
Speaker 1: they don't want to be affiliated with that bad press.
Speaker 1: And so I it really made me think like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I was like, because you know, you want people to
Speaker 1: see your conversation. She want people to talk about these issues,
Speaker 1: but you also don't want it to hurt the people
Speaker 1: who are working in that industry. Um. And I realized like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: we kind of have to tread a lot careful, a
Speaker 1: lot more carefully than other people when we criticize like
Speaker 1: the like when we criticize Hollywood, and it's it's not fair,
Speaker 1: it's not right. But you know, it's also good to
Speaker 1: be aware of that because you know, it's made me
Speaker 1: really think about the way that I criticized films or
Speaker 1: the way that I bring about issues or the way
Speaker 1: that I talked about them, um, because I also don't
Speaker 1: want to vilify the Native people who are in those films,
Speaker 1: and that's something that happens quite a bit um. And
Speaker 1: we saw that with Ridiculous Six, where you know, they
Speaker 1: did have Native actors who did walk off the set
Speaker 1: because of the racist stereotypes that Adam Sandler was using.
Speaker 1: And you know, he had said like, oh, well, it's satire,
Speaker 1: but you know, for for Native people, like there's a
Speaker 1: difference between satire and racism, and it's a thin line, right,
Speaker 1: and it's not for Adam Sandler to decide what works,
Speaker 1: decide what exactly. So you know, while there were a
Speaker 1: lot of Natives who walked off the set, there were
Speaker 1: a lot of Natives who stayed. And you know, we're
Speaker 1: in the film and there was a lot of vilific
Speaker 1: Asian that happened, like oh well they're sellouts there this,
Speaker 1: and it's like no, their Native people trying to work
Speaker 1: in an industry that is very violent towards Indigenous people,
Speaker 1: um still, and they also have families to feed. It's
Speaker 1: a very hard balance to to kind of walk because
Speaker 1: you know, I think that you kind of do have
Speaker 1: to draw a line, but that line is going to
Speaker 1: be different for everybody else. You know, like Indian countries
Speaker 1: not a monolith. So you know, while one Native could
Speaker 1: be totally okay with how they were doing ridiculous six
Speaker 1: you know, they were Natives who worked, and it didn't
Speaker 1: mean that either one was wrong or invalid. It just
Speaker 1: means that they had very two different perspectives and also motivations,
Speaker 1: which for a lot of people, that motivation is to
Speaker 1: work and to be able to feed and take care
Speaker 1: of their families. And so you don't want to fault
Speaker 1: them for that, you know, especially like in our hard
Speaker 1: economic times. Because when I was asked to do the
Speaker 1: press for for Prey, like to cover it, I was
Speaker 1: really worried about having that access because I didn't want
Speaker 1: to like, I'm blunt, I'm honest about what I think.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh no, I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to to kind of like burn down this
Speaker 1: bridge of communication between me and the studio and being
Speaker 1: able to potentially cover other movies and other productions. UM,
Speaker 1: But I also want to be honest and fair about
Speaker 1: what I think about this, And given that I was
Speaker 1: already hesitant about this movie anyway, like I was like
Speaker 1: trying to make sure like I was going to be
Speaker 1: able to be fair and to be still be honest,
Speaker 1: and thankfully it kind of worked out. But you know,
Speaker 1: like I also know that I'm not the only native
Speaker 1: with an opinion, and you know, there's it kind of
Speaker 1: a balance, and I think we've all learned to kind
Speaker 1: of tread that balance to to kind of be fair
Speaker 1: but tough um in our assessment of this of these
Speaker 1: media productions, because we understand what's at stake, and we
Speaker 1: also you know, kind of understand now that it has
Speaker 1: a larger impact outside of you know, our own Native
Speaker 1: publications that we realize, like, oh, studios are watching what
Speaker 1: we're saying. They're watching, you know, how we respond to
Speaker 1: these productions, and that they're using that as a basis
Speaker 1: of how they decide who gets funded, who doesn't, who
Speaker 1: gets to be involved, and who doesn't. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's trying to be mindful of that too, because
Speaker 1: I mean, when I mean, I was just a Native
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. I live here in l A now, but
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, I didn't have a large following,
Speaker 1: I didn't have the platforms that I have now, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was really weird that they were using
Speaker 1: that as an excuse, you know, to say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know, this kind of proves that Native productions are risky,
Speaker 1: Like we're going to face backlash for them, so to
Speaker 1: avoid it, we're just going to leave them out of
Speaker 1: it altogether. Which is another reason that they largely cast
Speaker 1: a lot of non natives in native roles, because non
Speaker 1: natives don't have the understanding to realize like that portrayal
Speaker 1: is wrong or that this is this is a stereotypical trope,
Speaker 1: and they have no other knowledge outside of their relationship
Speaker 1: or experience with those mascots and stereotypes to know any different.
Speaker 1: So they will cast non natives knowing that they're not
Speaker 1: going to have a problem or having to be held
Speaker 1: accountable about how those characters are being portrayed, whereas if
Speaker 1: it was a native character, you know, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit different. You know. Even Amber min Thunder has talked
Speaker 1: quite a bit about that about how, you know, she's
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have kind of come into the industry
Speaker 1: when she did, when she has a little power to
Speaker 1: have some say over how the character is portrayed and
Speaker 1: how you know, they're telling these stories. It sounds like
Speaker 1: her parents did not have that luxury when they were
Speaker 1: were still are working in Hollywood. That is I thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing that experience. It I just like it's
Speaker 1: so frustrating, to frustrating, so indicative of like the very
Speaker 1: toxic nature of Hollywood to to receive criticism and rather
Speaker 1: than like very valid criticism and rather than listen to
Speaker 1: it and like course correct, they're like, well, we're just
Speaker 1: going to use this as an excuse to um not
Speaker 1: you know, make native projects or cast native actors. You know,
Speaker 1: And on top of that it's unfair to ask you
Speaker 1: to change how you do your job in order to
Speaker 1: appease Like it's just it's just bullshit top to bottom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you could easily say, like, well, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to because we have our own native film industry. But
Speaker 1: also you know, like I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: like I don't think that any Native person, you know,
Speaker 1: should be held to just being able to thrive in
Speaker 1: Indian country, like we to be able to thrive anywhere,
Speaker 1: you know, in whatever industry it is we want to
Speaker 1: work in, whether it's in the film industry in Hollywood
Speaker 1: or it's in tech or whatever it is. You know,
Speaker 1: we should have the opportunity to to explore those possibilities
Speaker 1: for ourselves and you know, and not be held back
Speaker 1: or have it be in spite of our nativeness. Because
Speaker 1: that's so much of our experience as indigenous people too,
Speaker 1: is that like our success is seen as being in
Speaker 1: spite of us being native, rather than you know, it's
Speaker 1: just a native person being successful. It always has to
Speaker 1: be in spite of us being native, Like because all
Speaker 1: of the issues that we face as indigenous people have
Speaker 1: become synonymous with our identities, which doesn't happen to anybody else,
Speaker 1: even though those same issues affect everybody else as well.
Speaker 1: But just because of the stereotypes and how prevalent they
Speaker 1: are and how little interaction you know, mainstream America has
Speaker 1: with Indian inn as communities. I mean, there are still
Speaker 1: people who think that we've been wiped out completely, or
Speaker 1: who think we all still live in tps. You know,
Speaker 1: so because of that lack of interaction, like they just
Speaker 1: honestly don't know any better. And that makes it really
Speaker 1: hard to try and navigate those spaces too, because you know,
Speaker 1: there are some people who are just truly ignorant. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, we also have to
Speaker 1: acknowledge that racism is institutionalized and normalized when it comes
Speaker 1: to Native people, that oftentimes it's not recognized until it's
Speaker 1: called out, and then when it's called out, you know,
Speaker 1: people go on the defense because that's the way it's
Speaker 1: always been and and it's never been a problem before,
Speaker 1: you know. So you know, it's such a hard balance
Speaker 1: to try and navigate, you know, for for Native people
Speaker 1: just existing in this country. Oh infuriating, I'm I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to Native directors getting some blank fucking
Speaker 1: checks to make their own movies. And because we we've
Speaker 1: had conversations like this in the past on the show
Speaker 1: where even when a marginalized filmmaker or writer is given
Speaker 1: an opportunity to make and make something, speaking to what
Speaker 1: you're just saying, Johnny, it's like, well, in order to
Speaker 1: make your project, you have to do it in a
Speaker 1: very particular way or like exploit your own trauma, or
Speaker 1: like we're only interested in work from you if it
Speaker 1: is about a very, very very specific topic. When it's
Speaker 1: like that, again, it's just like not an impediment that
Speaker 1: most white filmmakers ever encounter. Yeah, and you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad that Amber mid Thunder came from the family
Speaker 1: that she did too, because you know, I think they
Speaker 1: really prepared her for that and also made her a
Speaker 1: little more audacious in the way that she was expected,
Speaker 1: like in the expectations that she had for how she
Speaker 1: was going to interact with Hollywood, because is Amber is
Speaker 1: one of the few native actresses that has been able
Speaker 1: to cross over um into more mainstream Hollywood with like Roswell.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's she has so many credits to her name,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of amazing to see because she's not
Speaker 1: necessarily native in those productions. You know, she doesn't. It's
Speaker 1: she's hasn't really been pigeonholed as just a Native actress.
Speaker 1: And you know it, it's kind of like it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of funny too, because I was just thinking about
Speaker 1: the name of your podcast because in Indian Country, and
Speaker 1: I know, I'm good, probably going to butcher this name
Speaker 1: of this, but we have the Um it's either the
Speaker 1: Ala Test or the Okay, So we will talk about
Speaker 1: this when we Yeah, so it's been renamed to the
Speaker 1: Test and we will. Ali's been on the show many times,
Speaker 1: the friend of the cast. Yeah, so since it's come up,
Speaker 1: the criteria to pass the Ali Naughty Test are that
Speaker 1: the character is an Indigenous or Aboriginal woman who is
Speaker 1: a main character, who does not fall in love with
Speaker 1: a white man, and who does not end up raped
Speaker 1: or murdered at any point in the story. Obviously, Pray
Speaker 1: passes the test very handily. So shout out to Ali Naughty,
Speaker 1: the Ali Naughty Test, and um, yeah, something that just
Speaker 1: like helps spark conversation about Indigenous representation in media. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's incredible because you know, and I bring that
Speaker 1: up because Amber mid Thunder is one of the very
Speaker 1: few actresses that has pretty much been able to pass
Speaker 1: then in almost every production. And I think that kind
Speaker 1: of goes to speak to you know how. You know,
Speaker 1: her family came from this industry, so they were able
Speaker 1: to prepare her and she was able to have make
Speaker 1: sure that her own voice was heard, that she wasn't
Speaker 1: just um, that she understood she had power in this
Speaker 1: industry and she used it. So you know, it's really
Speaker 1: rare that we have Native actresses who have that opportunity,
Speaker 1: and it's incredible that, you know, Amber mid Thunder has
Speaker 1: the career that she has, and you know, especially in
Speaker 1: this role, you know, she was so worried about getting
Speaker 1: it right. Now. You know, Native girls have a badass
Speaker 1: Native warrior to look up to, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: incredible because you know, again, you know, while there were
Speaker 1: like scenes of violence against her um for misogynistic reasons,
Speaker 1: you know it, she didn't end up murdered, she didn't
Speaker 1: end up rate and that was an incredible feat for Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Load the bar is oh my god, yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: it's really hard to um. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: you guys have seen the recent episode of reservation dogs
Speaker 1: or if you're caught up on the series, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: A lot of it is about, like the show is
Speaker 1: kind of centered around, you know, how suicide and Indian
Speaker 1: effects Indian country. You know, like the first season revolves
Speaker 1: around four friends who are dealing with the suicide of
Speaker 1: one of their closest friends, and the second season kind
Speaker 1: of explores the generational trauma that kind of goes into
Speaker 1: that as well. And in this last episode, we saw
Speaker 1: Big who is the cop who has a lot of
Speaker 1: guilt because he thinks that he killed one of his friends,
Speaker 1: that he wasn't able to save her, and he carries
Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about that, and it kind of
Speaker 1: carries over how you know for this generation, Like for
Speaker 1: these kids, you know, the trauma that they're dealing with
Speaker 1: is the suicide of you know, their their best friend,
Speaker 1: their cousin, their brother. But you know, the adults in
Speaker 1: their lives, their parents, Um and the people in the community.
Speaker 1: You know, that trauma came from the death of this
Speaker 1: character Cookie, who is Um who plays DeVries Monk's character,
Speaker 1: I guess, but this was the first time that they
Speaker 1: showed that character in this episode, and it was such
Speaker 1: a beautiful UM, beautiful episode. It was so beautifully done
Speaker 1: and it was funny. I was really scared it was
Speaker 1: going to be one of those tear drekers again, and
Speaker 1: I was like, my emotions, can I handle this? But
Speaker 1: it was really funny and it was really heartfelt and
Speaker 1: it was emotional. But you know, the the actors who
Speaker 1: they cast to play Cookie Jenney ms so incredible in
Speaker 1: this UM and but you know, we want We went
Speaker 1: to a watch party UM to watch this episode with her,
Speaker 1: and you know, afterwards we were having the same conversation
Speaker 1: about you know, she's a Native actress and she was like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's I'm I'm typecast as the dead Native girl.
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, no shade too like reservation dogs
Speaker 1: or anything. She goes. But that's just the reality she goes.
Speaker 1: Whenever I go out for a part or audition, it's
Speaker 1: always for the dead Native girl. Um, she goes. It's
Speaker 1: just how they typecast her. She's like, you know, and
Speaker 1: she's she's actually going to be in UM Flowers Are
Speaker 1: the Killer Moon, so you know she's going to be
Speaker 1: one of the sisters in that, and you know it's
Speaker 1: a big role for her. And again you know, it's
Speaker 1: like she was saying, typecast as the dead Native girl,
Speaker 1: like I don't get to live in the comes that
Speaker 1: I'm in. Um. But you know, she's such an incredible actress.
Speaker 1: But you know, like these conversations like I feel like
Speaker 1: need to be had about the opportunities that are given
Speaker 1: to Native women because in almost any show that we
Speaker 1: where it is about Native women, that woman is always
Speaker 1: going to be right, She's always going to be murdered. Um.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be an incredible amount of violence
Speaker 1: enacted against her. And it's such a shame because you
Speaker 1: know that shouldn't be normalized, and it always is like
Speaker 1: it's and it's never shown as in a way where
Speaker 1: it's like raising awareness. It's always exploitative. Even Wind River,
Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, really use that show
Speaker 1: and they're like, it's the first show to really talk
Speaker 1: about the murder to missing an Diigenous women. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: but it's so exploitative and it kind of centers on
Speaker 1: that white saviorship and it doesn't talk about how that
Speaker 1: violence is wrong or you know that it needs to change.
Speaker 1: It just kind of plays into why it keeps happening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of hard conversations that still
Speaker 1: need to be had. But you know, thankfully we have
Speaker 1: actresses like Amberment Thunder. There's also Crystal Lightning, who you know,
Speaker 1: has won awards for her role in Trickster, which was
Speaker 1: an incredible series as well. Um, but the opportunities that
Speaker 1: they're given to be just anything more than you know,
Speaker 1: these stereotypical tropes. You know that, oh, the other trope
Speaker 1: is also the drunk woman or the drunk Indian woman,
Speaker 1: um and the dead Native woman. Like those are the
Speaker 1: two roles that Native women get in Hollywood usually, and
Speaker 1: it's such a shame because Native women are so strong,
Speaker 1: they're so fierce. Um. Even now, when you look at
Speaker 1: the different issues that affect in a country, it's always
Speaker 1: Native women right there on the front lines before anybody else.
Speaker 1: And you know, for us to just constantly be shown
Speaker 1: in this state of victimhood, you know, is just unacceptable
Speaker 1: in this day and age. And I do feel, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I'm so thrilled that ever mid Thunder is so
Speaker 1: successful and has you know, the institutional knowledge passed on
Speaker 1: from her parents. And also it's like the fact that
Speaker 1: she is such a large seems like such a large
Speaker 1: exception to this is like so discouraging. I really, I
Speaker 1: really loved that she seems determined to continue pushing the
Speaker 1: industry and using the power and knowledge she does have.
Speaker 1: And also, like speaking to what we were discussing a
Speaker 1: little earlier, the enormous pressure that that puts on her,
Speaker 1: that is like not a fair press to put on anyone,
Speaker 1: much as a young person. Yeah, and it's I mean
Speaker 1: it's incredible because I mean, with Prey, she could easily
Speaker 1: just wrote this success out and not addressed any of
Speaker 1: these issues and just been like it was a great experience,
Speaker 1: it was good. You know, everything's awesome. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to be here. But the fact that she's
Speaker 1: taken the risk to acknowledge how hard it is to
Speaker 1: be in the industry and the realities of being in
Speaker 1: the industry, you know, makes her incredible in my eyes,
Speaker 1: even more so because she is young and she is
Speaker 1: using her platform. You know. It kind of reminds me
Speaker 1: of when Ashley calling bull one Mrs World, you know,
Speaker 1: and she told them, what did you think when she
Speaker 1: started getting backlash about speaking about native issues? He's like,
Speaker 1: did you think I was just going to take this
Speaker 1: crown and stand here and be pretty. She's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use this platform for the betterment of my people.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I feel like that's kind of
Speaker 1: like the role that so many you know, Native entertainers
Speaker 1: and Native talent they kind of get cast into that,
Speaker 1: and I'm really looking forward to the day when they
Speaker 1: get to just be actors, when they get to just
Speaker 1: be writers and not have to be advocates as well. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: is there anything else that we'd like to touch on
Speaker 1: about about the movie, about behind the scenes about I
Speaker 1: have one really quick thing, which is that on IMDb,
Speaker 1: the French trappers, who are the only white characters you
Speaker 1: see on screen, are credited like their character's names are
Speaker 1: things like big Beard and waxed mustache, the way that
Speaker 1: indigenous people in movies have been credited as things like
Speaker 1: Indian right, Indian man. You know. So just that like
Speaker 1: the white people are big beard and waxed Mustache. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed that very much. That, Yeah, And it kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to showing just how intentional they were with
Speaker 1: this film. The fact that even in the movie, the
Speaker 1: French traders were never translated. We have no idea unless
Speaker 1: she speaks what they were saying, that yeah, there's no
Speaker 1: subtitles for it because it's just like, well, who gives
Speaker 1: it you? And that yeah, that does feel reflective of
Speaker 1: how Native people have been portrayed in the past, like
Speaker 1: it's yeah, and further demonstrates that the movie is told
Speaker 1: from an indigenous perspective because she doesn't know French exactly.
Speaker 1: And there's a scene and I didn't know this until
Speaker 1: I watched the Comanche dub of this, but there's a
Speaker 1: scene um in the English version where so obviously, like
Speaker 1: when you're when you're watching the English version, when you're
Speaker 1: watching the Commanche people speak to each other, you assume
Speaker 1: that they are actually speaking in Comanche, even though we
Speaker 1: are seeing them speak in English. But there's a scene
Speaker 1: where the French guy is speaking to Naru in English,
Speaker 1: and my brain understood it as, oh, she knows English
Speaker 1: and the French guy is speaking to her in English.
Speaker 1: But then when you watch the Commanche version, the French
Speaker 1: guy knows Comanche and is speaking to her in Commanche.
Speaker 1: You never you never hear her speak English in the
Speaker 1: Commanche version. That that scene is a little weird. In
Speaker 1: the English, it makes more sense of the Comanche dubbed totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's so funny too that you mentioned that, because because
Speaker 1: I was cracking up because of all the ridiculous, you know,
Speaker 1: like foe boy reactions that came from this movie that
Speaker 1: you know, like Amber had recently addressed him as well.
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I found so funny
Speaker 1: was that part of the criticism from people was like
Speaker 1: they speak English so well. They were like, you know,
Speaker 1: I really loved the film, but it was just so
Speaker 1: weird that the that the natives spoke English. And it's like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, you're surprised that in a movie in
Speaker 1: americ where a large part of the population speaks English
Speaker 1: and only English and only English, that the natives speak English.
Speaker 1: And I was like, how many other movies have they
Speaker 1: like there been like where the characters are you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's just supposed to be like inferred that they're
Speaker 1: speaking another language, but we're hearing get in English that
Speaker 1: nobody has had a problem with, but suddenly it's a
Speaker 1: problem because it's natives. I was like, so you're telling
Speaker 1: me that you think that the Hobbits were speaking English?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like what they never ceased to amaze
Speaker 1: with the reaching they are willing to do do not
Speaker 1: like something, it's just oh my yeah, Like it was
Speaker 1: so funny to me because I was like, of all
Speaker 1: the things to criticize, like that is the weirdest thing
Speaker 1: that I've heard, is like, you're so surprised that native
Speaker 1: people can speak English in America, that a film in
Speaker 1: America for American critics is an English Like what? Um.
Speaker 1: The last thing I wanted to touch on was I
Speaker 1: just this is like a little story touch that I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: we are we are trained to expect so little from
Speaker 1: how women are written in movies. I just liked that
Speaker 1: Naro was good at a lot of different things, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'd ever heard it like framed
Speaker 1: like this in a movie of just like why is
Speaker 1: this the thing you want to do? You're good at
Speaker 1: a lot of things, which is like true of so
Speaker 1: many kids. But I feel like it's like whatever protagonist
Speaker 1: writing trope to be like they're really good at this
Speaker 1: one thing and this one thing is all they can
Speaker 1: do because blah blah destiny. And I just like that
Speaker 1: she had a lot of different skills. She used a
Speaker 1: lot of different skills throughout the movie, like she used
Speaker 1: her knowledge of medicine at several different points. It became
Speaker 1: relevant several times her mom was like, well, why don't
Speaker 1: you want to do this? You're good at this, and she's,
Speaker 1: you know, she's just like, well, yeah, I'm I know
Speaker 1: how to do the thing I want to do, and
Speaker 1: I just simple thing. But I liked I did too.
Speaker 1: I really love that because it kind of showed um
Speaker 1: versatility and also just that, you know, like any human being,
Speaker 1: like we're not just one thing, Like we're a multitude
Speaker 1: of things, Like we wear many different hats. Like I
Speaker 1: don't know a single person who is just a doctor
Speaker 1: or just a lawyer or just a writer, like you're
Speaker 1: like even me, Like, and I know I get this
Speaker 1: from my mom because you know, my mom, she was
Speaker 1: a teacher, she was a firefighter. At one point, she
Speaker 1: was a security guard. You know, she did this whole
Speaker 1: wide variety of different jobs, you know, because and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of that was because she had me young,
Speaker 1: and she also had a lot of experiences when she
Speaker 1: was younger that kind of limited what she could do.
Speaker 1: So I think once she got older and once it's
Speaker 1: kids got old enough to kind of you know, live
Speaker 1: without her needing to be the um. She started exploring
Speaker 1: like what it is she wanted to do and what
Speaker 1: her talents were. I mean, she was an incredible artist.
Speaker 1: She could sing um. There are so many things that
Speaker 1: she did and I look back at and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, even without even knowing it, you know, I
Speaker 1: kind of followed my mom's footprints, like her lead, because
Speaker 1: you know, I've done corporate management. I was a fitness instructor,
Speaker 1: which is so hilarious to me it now, but you know,
Speaker 1: I I've had all these different jobs. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: a writer, and then now you know, recently, I'm an
Speaker 1: artist and and not just an artist, but like an
Speaker 1: award winning artist now. Um. And and it's something that
Speaker 1: I never really thought of, you know that. You know,
Speaker 1: like I used to draw, I used to do it all,
Speaker 1: but I never really saw it as anything I could do,
Speaker 1: like professionally or anything like that. But it kind of
Speaker 1: followed Naru's too, because you know, her skills were necessary
Speaker 1: for her survival, which is basically the same as my
Speaker 1: professional trajectory because I have lupus, and so you know,
Speaker 1: in every job that I've had, I've had to leave
Speaker 1: for health reasons and so like, I have to be adaptable.
Speaker 1: And you know, even now with art, I've been a
Speaker 1: graphic designer and digital artists since I was in my twenties,
Speaker 1: but um, I have like three of my fingers that
Speaker 1: are starting to kind of twist, and so I don't
Speaker 1: have the mobility that I used to have, and so
Speaker 1: like I started looking at, Okay, well, what can I
Speaker 1: do creatively that I can still do creatively, and so
Speaker 1: you know, I discovered poor art, fluid art, and it's
Speaker 1: kind of worked well for me, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, I am an artist, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: just a graphic designer or a digital artists, which I
Speaker 1: never saw as being an artist because I did it
Speaker 1: for money, Like I did it feel like it was
Speaker 1: me And I always felt like I was just bringing
Speaker 1: other people's creations to life, so I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: it was my artistry at all. So you know, it
Speaker 1: was kind of fun for me to watch Naru and
Speaker 1: for her to have all these different skills and to
Speaker 1: be able to use them, because it speaks to how
Speaker 1: Native people kind of had to survive colonization as well,
Speaker 1: and how we continue to survive in this society, like
Speaker 1: we have to be adaptable, and we don't always have
Speaker 1: all the resources we need, but we have to be
Speaker 1: able to use what we have. And you know, and
Speaker 1: I've been able to somehow still keep myself alive, you know,
Speaker 1: by by being adaptable, by being able to go from
Speaker 1: like corporate management to doing a fitness tech too, you know,
Speaker 1: becoming an artist in order to survive. And it was
Speaker 1: so fun for me to see Naru have those that
Speaker 1: same adaptability and for them to show it in the
Speaker 1: way that they did. To quote your own piece back
Speaker 1: at you, you say that this that this movie quote
Speaker 1: is a rare tribute to the ingenuity, strength, and sheer
Speaker 1: stubbornness that has allowed Native people to survive the forces
Speaker 1: that threaten our survival unquote. Yeah, and it's so true.
Speaker 1: Like when I watched the movie, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: I was blown away. Um, But there was such an
Speaker 1: emotional connection with every aspect of the movie because of that,
Speaker 1: you know, you get to see like just the people
Speaker 1: in the village as well, you know, what they were
Speaker 1: doing day to day to survive and to thrive in
Speaker 1: their environment. Um. And it wasn't an easy environment, as
Speaker 1: we saw with Naru, like there were mountain lions. They
Speaker 1: had a kid being taken out of their village by
Speaker 1: a mountain lion, like that was their day to day reality.
Speaker 1: There were bears, there were all these and that was
Speaker 1: the cool thing too, was to kind of how they
Speaker 1: showed that there were so many threats around Native people
Speaker 1: at the time, like it wasn't just the predator. And
Speaker 1: even the ending of the film when she defeated the
Speaker 1: predator and she went back to the village and she
Speaker 1: gave him their head, but then she threw the gun
Speaker 1: and she told him we need to move to higher ground.
Speaker 1: The fact that the predator wasn't the biggest threat, and
Speaker 1: Naru knew that, you know, like she knew I'm going, like,
Speaker 1: we're going to defeat this threat, but this other one,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we can because of the nature
Speaker 1: of that threat. And it was so beautiful to see
Speaker 1: that and to kind of show that, you know, she
Speaker 1: just had this all out brawl. She they lost all
Speaker 1: the warrior you know, like their young warriors in the village.
Speaker 1: She lost her brother, but yet the battle wasn't over,
Speaker 1: like they were still facing a threat that they had
Speaker 1: to address. And I thought That was the most incredible thing.
Speaker 1: Even when Teobi died and they flashed to the warrior
Speaker 1: bringing his like his I guess it was his rows
Speaker 1: sheet back to the village and his mom saw it,
Speaker 1: and she just knew that her son was gone, and
Speaker 1: she you know, she thought she lost Naru too, and
Speaker 1: knowing that her kids were gone, you know, you could
Speaker 1: see that grief on her face, but she didn't have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to to really just feel it. Like she
Speaker 1: turned around and she went back to doing what she
Speaker 1: was doing because it's what needed to happen for the
Speaker 1: betterment of the community. And so I really was just
Speaker 1: struck with how they were showing all these like communal relationships,
Speaker 1: that kinship and also you know just how Native people
Speaker 1: had to be adaptable and how to have they had
Speaker 1: to use the resources around them. And when it flashed
Speaker 1: back to Naru, you know, she's on that river bank
Speaker 1: and you know, she just lost her brother and she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking like, oh, I can't do this, but
Speaker 1: then she sees the the big trader guy at the
Speaker 1: river and she's like, OK, it's on a big beer
Speaker 1: because she's like, that's it, it's on. That was such
Speaker 1: a good action secause and so cathartic and just like
Speaker 1: they're so like in a in a relatively like um
Speaker 1: I don't mean simple and a reductive way, but it's
Speaker 1: like a very pair down story. But it's just like
Speaker 1: there are those huge moments of impact and a lot
Speaker 1: of the like what you just described with just like
Speaker 1: a single shot of um Nauru's mom communicated so much
Speaker 1: about the character, about the family, about the community, about
Speaker 1: the time, and it's just like this small moment, Like
Speaker 1: this movie is full of moments like that. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean the part that really had me in tears though,
Speaker 1: was when team died because it's not a big scene.
Speaker 1: It didn't lead up to it like where it came,
Speaker 1: you know, like was an action pack scene. You know,
Speaker 1: he knew he could, he heard the predator step and
Speaker 1: he knew that, okay, I'm not getting out of this,
Speaker 1: and he took what time he had left instead of
Speaker 1: trying to run or save himself, you know, he took
Speaker 1: that time. He accepted it, and he told Naru, he
Speaker 1: was like, this is this is as far as I go.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to bring this home now, like
Speaker 1: and and then she says it later and you're like,
Speaker 1: I know. I was like why because it was such
Speaker 1: a beautiful moment for him to say that, because you know,
Speaker 1: throughout the film he'd been so supportive of her Katamiya,
Speaker 1: and even when she didn't succeed, you know, he was
Speaker 1: still in telling her like, oh, you know, he's like,
Speaker 1: you can still bring it home, like you know, like
Speaker 1: you we still have to like even if we don't succeed,
Speaker 1: like we still have to keep going because we do
Speaker 1: have to protect our community, like it's larger than just
Speaker 1: him or her, like it's about the community. And for
Speaker 1: him to take that time, and for also for Naru
Speaker 1: to understand in that moment too, like it's no longer
Speaker 1: just about her and her Katamiya, but the protection of
Speaker 1: her entire village now, like it's on her because there's
Speaker 1: no one left, you know, And for her brother to
Speaker 1: tell her like it's on you to bring it home
Speaker 1: and to basically reassure her like you got this before
Speaker 1: he died, And for him to even take his last
Speaker 1: moments to make sure that she could get away because
Speaker 1: she was so stunned, you know, I was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, how they packed so much emotion in
Speaker 1: that scene as quick as it was. I was like
Speaker 1: in Tears, the sibling the sibling bond in this movie
Speaker 1: as just like absolutely incredible. I really loved it very well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like and even the ending, you know, like I teared
Speaker 1: up at the ending is too you know. And and
Speaker 1: and it was for the most funniest reason, and it's
Speaker 1: actually been kind of memed um. But the little girl,
Speaker 1: like when she comes back to the village and you know,
Speaker 1: they name her the next war chief and there's that
Speaker 1: little girl who's just looking at her with such awe
Speaker 1: on her bid Like I was tearing up, and I
Speaker 1: was like, but it hit me so emotionally because you know,
Speaker 1: even for me, like growing up, I didn't have the
Speaker 1: role models that I needed because when I was younger,
Speaker 1: like I wanted to be like an epidemiologist. This is
Speaker 1: what Outbreak came out, and I wanted to be in
Speaker 1: the thick of ebola. You know, I went in all
Speaker 1: these infectious diseases and stuff. But um, people would tell
Speaker 1: me like why, like no native is doing this, no
Speaker 1: native is there, and you know, and that's what I
Speaker 1: saw around me, was there was no native scientists or like,
Speaker 1: because of course we don't have the internet, like we
Speaker 1: do now. So I didn't have that representation around me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why it's so important to have opportunities to see
Speaker 1: yourself represented in media and represented in all industries, you know,
Speaker 1: not just entertainment. Um. Was there anything else that anyone
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about? Um? I think that was it
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, I think that was it. Although we
Speaker 1: should add the disclaimer that recently it's been um talked
Speaker 1: about that Dakota Beavers may or may not have Native heritage. UM.
Speaker 1: And it's a little bit more complicated because even if
Speaker 1: he's not Native, you know, he's still an Indigenous person
Speaker 1: within the larger indigenous diaspora. So you know, it is
Speaker 1: complicated and it's something that is still being investigated. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, it's been proven that he doesn't have ties
Speaker 1: to the tribes that he claimed, but that still doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that he has that he doesn't have ties
Speaker 1: to a native tribe. UM. It's just that, especially you know,
Speaker 1: like the history in New Mexico and around the area
Speaker 1: Native people through that area. You know, it's always really complicated.
Speaker 1: So you know, he's still doing a lot of research
Speaker 1: because you know, he was told all his life that
Speaker 1: he was Apache and Pueblo and it turns out that
Speaker 1: he's not, so you know, so it's not as though
Speaker 1: he was like lying. It's just that he was kind
Speaker 1: possibly like misinformed exactly exactly. And you know, and even
Speaker 1: without that, you know, he would still be an indigenous person.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's a lot more complicated than say,
Speaker 1: like Elizabeth Warren R. Yeah, that was a pretty cut
Speaker 1: and dry situation. Yeah, so you know, it's a little
Speaker 1: more complicated. And I feel really bad for him, being
Speaker 1: so young, and you know, this is his first movie role,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know when when you're in that spotlight,
Speaker 1: then everything is under intense scrutiny, no matter if you're
Speaker 1: Native or not. So you know, I really feel bad
Speaker 1: that this is his kind of introduction into that spotlight.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's just I feel really bad for him. Um.
Speaker 1: But also, you know, I just really hope that it
Speaker 1: doesn't really end up with like harassment or you know,
Speaker 1: him being vilified for it, because it's not like he
Speaker 1: intentionally lied, right, and he was apparently up front with
Speaker 1: the producers and everybody beforehand. Um, and he was still hired.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a really complicated situation. Because at that
Speaker 1: point to um, you know, the responsibility falls on you know,
Speaker 1: on his family and also you know, the people that
Speaker 1: hired him knowing that he had questionable ties. So you know,
Speaker 1: he kind of really did just get go into this
Speaker 1: thinking like I'm okay um. And and that's another reason
Speaker 1: I feel so bad for him, because it's not like
Speaker 1: he had a reason to not believe his parents or
Speaker 1: his family when they told him, you know, about who
Speaker 1: his what his heritage was, so you know, and he
Speaker 1: probably grew up all his life thinking, you know, that's
Speaker 1: who he was, and then now it's just gone. Um.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that's like a cultural shocking as well.
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean, I just I just feel
Speaker 1: really bad for him. But I think that's important to
Speaker 1: put out there just because you know, when it comes
Speaker 1: to Native representation, it's really hard for Native people to
Speaker 1: get roles as it is, and non natives are constantly
Speaker 1: being cast in Native roles, So you know, I do
Speaker 1: think that it needs to be kind of discussed, you
Speaker 1: know that, you know, why this is a conversation, why
Speaker 1: this is an issue, and also just to just to
Speaker 1: let people be aware that it's not always cut and dry,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's a lot of history with colonization.
Speaker 1: It's done a number on our ties to our communities.
Speaker 1: It's intentionally severed connections to your community. So you know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of Natives who are not enrolled,
Speaker 1: who are legitly native um, but because of blood quantum
Speaker 1: and different tribal enrollment requirements, even though they're Native, they
Speaker 1: may not necessarily qualify to be citizens of their nation.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's a lot of gray area. We
Speaker 1: had Natives who were adopted out, Natives who lost their
Speaker 1: ties through residential boarding schools, and it's just a really
Speaker 1: complicated history to try and entangle. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: I think that's why I feel so bad for him,
Speaker 1: because he's suddenly having to deal with all this and
Speaker 1: you know, of course shoulder all the responsibility and the
Speaker 1: blame for something that wasn't necessarily his fault or something
Speaker 1: that he didn't necessarily do intentionally of course. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And this is still a developing situation. So at the
Speaker 1: time of this recording, right, I guess for our listeners,
Speaker 1: because we record kind of for an advance. Sometimes we're
Speaker 1: recording this on September, so that is and also, like
Speaker 1: Johnny I genuinely was not even aware of that situation
Speaker 1: before today. So it's like, yeah, very much a developing, right,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I wish everyone the best. I mean
Speaker 1: that that is an incredible mind funk for someone who's
Speaker 1: so early in the public eye. Oh yeah, Um, what's that?
Speaker 1: The Bechtel Tests? The Bechtel Test? Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: I have Does this movie past the Bechtel Test? I
Speaker 1: believe it does. Between Naru and my mother, yeah, they
Speaker 1: talk about hunting, food, medicine, her future. I mean they
Speaker 1: talk about a lot of stuff. Yeah, her skills. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to give one more shout out to the
Speaker 1: Ali Naughty Test, which Naru in this movie passes with
Speaker 1: flying colors, So shout out to the Ali Naughty Test.
Speaker 1: And um, then we've got our Nipple scale, the only
Speaker 1: perfect media metric. It's flawless, ten out of ten. No notes.
Speaker 1: We rate the movie on a scale of zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples based on how it does when you look
Speaker 1: at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. I would
Speaker 1: give this movie. I want to give it a four.
Speaker 1: Four nipples. I'm gonna take a little bit of nippleage
Speaker 1: off for the behind the scenes as far as the
Speaker 1: movie was written and directed by white men, this is
Speaker 1: not their story to tell. I don't know why indigenous
Speaker 1: filmmakers couldn't have been given the opportunity to, you know,
Speaker 1: be the creative minds behind this movie. And I think
Speaker 1: that led to kind of the main thing that pinned
Speaker 1: for all of us, as far as the way gender
Speaker 1: is treated in the movie, as far as like European
Speaker 1: style patriarchal values being voisted onto this culture and community
Speaker 1: where that didn't fully track. So but there's just like
Speaker 1: so much else to to love about this movie as
Speaker 1: far as Indigenous representation and this movie pushing the needle
Speaker 1: forward in that regard. Um. I want to share a
Speaker 1: quick quote from Amber mid Thunder where she says, quote,
Speaker 1: this is the first time you get to see an
Speaker 1: indigenous female action hero at the center of a film
Speaker 1: that in and of itself is a really incredible statement unquote.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, the fact that this is the
Speaker 1: first time we're getting that in the year and I
Speaker 1: will also yeah, like it's amazing. But also I'm going
Speaker 1: to add, and I was talking with to Amber about
Speaker 1: this too, is that I'm a sexual and one of
Speaker 1: the things that really that I really loved about this
Speaker 1: movie too, is that she got to be an action
Speaker 1: star without a love interest. Yes, there was no male
Speaker 1: figure trying to pull her into a domestic life, for
Speaker 1: her having to choose between her people and a man, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there was no love story, and the love story that
Speaker 1: did exist was between you know, all of the native
Speaker 1: characters and their community. And so, you know, as somebody
Speaker 1: who's a set actual and to see a movie where
Speaker 1: there is no love interest or you know, romance being
Speaker 1: pushed onto any of the characters as part of pushing
Speaker 1: them forward or kind of developing as a person like
Speaker 1: that was phenomenal to me. And they did it so organically,
Speaker 1: like it didn't seem forced or you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: like they were like, oh, well, because she wants to
Speaker 1: be a warrior, no one wants to marry her or
Speaker 1: nobody is attracted to her kind of thing. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I really love that she just got to be not
Speaker 1: you know and just like a fully developed person on
Speaker 1: her own, without you know, a male figure having to
Speaker 1: come in and try and control her or you know,
Speaker 1: change the course of her action or it just you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just phenomenal to me, like I
Speaker 1: was so excited by that as somebody who is a
Speaker 1: sexual because in almost every movie we watch there is
Speaker 1: a love triangle of some sort, which is remarkable. I mean,
Speaker 1: in the action genre at all, I feel like it
Speaker 1: there's always a love story that is that or very
Speaker 1: often a love story that feels extremely shoehorned in and
Speaker 1: almost in this like weird marketing attempt to be like
Speaker 1: we need everyone to see this movie who likes a
Speaker 1: really forced heterosexual romance, And it's like everybody is for sure.
Speaker 1: I came to see a snake, a predator, and a
Speaker 1: girl with an axe, and I left satisfied, and I
Speaker 1: totally agree. Like having the most powerful bond in this
Speaker 1: movie be between siblings is really rare and like powerful
Speaker 1: and cool. Yeah, and it and it was there and
Speaker 1: not in a weird way, because there's a weird thing
Speaker 1: with siblings in movies where they're way too flirty with
Speaker 1: each other, you know, like there's just this weird dynamic
Speaker 1: with siblings that never really hits with me, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm thinking back to Monica and Ross and friends.
Speaker 1: You know, they're always hanging around on each other. You
Speaker 1: can lay up. Yeah, like there's just I mean, there's
Speaker 1: some weird sibling relationships out there, so it was really
Speaker 1: nice to see one where, you know, it felt like
Speaker 1: a sibling relationship with the teasing and you know, just
Speaker 1: kind of giving each other a hard time, but also
Speaker 1: that genuine care that they had for each other. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So with all of that in mind, I will give
Speaker 1: the movie four nipples. I will award one to Naru,
Speaker 1: I will give one to producer Jane Myers, I will
Speaker 1: give a nipple to Sorry the Dog, and I'll give
Speaker 1: my funnel nipple to the tooth brushing scene, which I
Speaker 1: really appreciated and was, um from what I read, carefully
Speaker 1: researched and you know, shout out to brushing your teeth.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'll meet you have four nipples. I think
Speaker 1: that this is a I mean, like, it's a really
Speaker 1: fucking cool movie. Um. I love that the production took
Speaker 1: such care to represent indigenous cultures so specifically in time
Speaker 1: and in their tribe and and and I mean the
Speaker 1: weird girl boss elements of like like modern feminism. Those
Speaker 1: moments were a little jarring, but thankfully they did not
Speaker 1: throw the movie off. Course. I feel like Naru is
Speaker 1: such a strong protagonist like she's you can't not root
Speaker 1: for her, and you can't not root for her whole community,
Speaker 1: even when they are at odds and even when they're
Speaker 1: being stalked by Predator, and you kind of can't help
Speaker 1: but root for Predator in a couple of moments, also
Speaker 1: because you know, at the end of the day he
Speaker 1: is boyfriend, and so I try to be respectful of that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I really love this movie. I agree that
Speaker 1: the fact that we're still kind of in this cultural
Speaker 1: moment where this whatever the Hollywood powers that be seems
Speaker 1: to feel that you still needed a white director and
Speaker 1: co writer to make this movie happen with the institutional
Speaker 1: um support it received, is super discouraging. As we discussed,
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like, you know, there's no world
Speaker 1: in which an indigenous filmmaker shouldn't get the first option
Speaker 1: to make a movie like this with the institutional support
Speaker 1: at the same level, and um, it's really frustrating that
Speaker 1: that is still not a place where we're at. But
Speaker 1: I do agree that this is a good stepping stone
Speaker 1: movie to bring what I hope will be more Indigenous
Speaker 1: stories by Indigenous people who are honestly indigenous filmmakers getting
Speaker 1: institutional support to make whatever they want. And I will
Speaker 1: say it's really hard for me too, because I in
Speaker 1: my head, after seeing Pray, I've super been wanting to
Speaker 1: just go hard campaigning for Dan Tracktonburg to direct or
Speaker 1: even just options Steven Graham Jones The Only Good Indians,
Speaker 1: which is one of the most terrifying Native horror books
Speaker 1: that I've read in such a long time, Like it's
Speaker 1: just haunts me. But after seeing Pray, I think that
Speaker 1: he would be the one director that could possibly bring
Speaker 1: it to life in a way that does it justice.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, Johnny, you're such a trader.
Speaker 1: You're such a trader. But well, Dan, I mean, he
Speaker 1: directed the hell out of this movie. And also, you know, Clover,
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Clover, like it's so good. It was
Speaker 1: so good, and I, you know, I had not I
Speaker 1: really wanted to hate it going in, and the story
Speaker 1: just kind of really got me interested, and I was
Speaker 1: just thinking, oh, like, this is a good twist. You know,
Speaker 1: she thinks the world's ending and she's just down here
Speaker 1: with this crazy dude, but then she gets out and
Speaker 1: lo and behold, the world has gotten right. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: my god, I love this And then seeing Pray, I
Speaker 1: was thinking, huh, I want to see Only Good Indians
Speaker 1: as a movie. Dan seems to have a good grass
Speaker 1: on horror, and you know what really kind of grabs
Speaker 1: those human elements, you know, like with the relationships, you know,
Speaker 1: beyond just the horror, you know, even better. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: just like, okay, now, like Dan Trachtenberg could be the
Speaker 1: kind of person to like champion an adaptation, find an
Speaker 1: intentionous director would do an amazing job with it and
Speaker 1: just like help steer the ship and keep things on
Speaker 1: board and keep institutions out of the way, you know exactly,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, there's so many options there. But I
Speaker 1: was like, Johnny, you're such a trader. You're such a trader.
Speaker 1: And and it's funny because I mean, I honestly, you know,
Speaker 1: I did not expect to lie Pray. Like, if we
Speaker 1: were having this conversation in two thousand sixteen, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: no nipples, we're taking their nipples completely away. But now
Speaker 1: it's like I would give them all the nipples. Well, well,
Speaker 1: on that note, what is your nipple rating? Um? I
Speaker 1: actually would give them a four and a half. I
Speaker 1: think they did such a phenomenal job because they really
Speaker 1: did have to turn that script around. Um, hearing some
Speaker 1: of the behind the scenes conversations with like Jane Myers
Speaker 1: and also with a lot of the Comanchee people that
Speaker 1: came on board to to kind of help develop the film.
Speaker 1: The original script was as bad as I thought it was. Um,
Speaker 1: So they did have to tweet quite a bit, and
Speaker 1: a lot of those little moments too, of where kind
Speaker 1: of like that misogyny where it just feels like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's not Native, that's not our culture, that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be you know, how Comanche men treated their women. A
Speaker 1: lot of those moments, you know, we're kind of slip
Speaker 1: through because of trying to I guess you would say,
Speaker 1: make it understandable from a mainstream perspective of what this
Speaker 1: story was. So I take away half a nipple for that,
Speaker 1: because I honestly just can't wait to where, you know,
Speaker 1: we get a Native film, you know, like where it's
Speaker 1: like Reservation Dogs, where it can be told through that
Speaker 1: native lens, completely through a Native lens, without having to
Speaker 1: try and figure out how to translate that also through
Speaker 1: a white lens. So but I mean, I think they
Speaker 1: did like a phenomenal job. Everything about that movie, Like
Speaker 1: there's so many little hidden Easter eggs, Like there's the
Speaker 1: scene where she's walking through right before the hunting party
Speaker 1: finds her after she gets out of the mud and everything.
Speaker 1: But if you look in that scene, you will actually
Speaker 1: see those Comanche warriors hiding behind the trees and in
Speaker 1: the background. So if you're not watching, like you'll miss it.
Speaker 1: But that's one of the things that Comanche people were
Speaker 1: known for was being able to hide and sneak up
Speaker 1: on people. So if you really watch that scene, you'll
Speaker 1: see them in the background, and so you know. And
Speaker 1: there's also a part where she whistles at night and
Speaker 1: the predator shows up, which is one of those things
Speaker 1: for Native people is very taboo. You don't whistle at
Speaker 1: night because you don't know what's going to whistle back
Speaker 1: or what it's going to bring forth, like what spirits.
Speaker 1: So it was really cool to have them have her
Speaker 1: whistle at night and then here comes the monster, you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of like solidifying that that believe. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: there were so many little Easter eggs, little things that
Speaker 1: were hidden that you know, if you're native, it really
Speaker 1: kind of just made you realize, like they took such
Speaker 1: incredible care with this movie and they wanted Native people
Speaker 1: to really connect with it, and you know, I really
Speaker 1: think it did a good job of resonating with Native
Speaker 1: people because of that. So, you know, I think they
Speaker 1: just did an incredible job overall. I'm so glad. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad we got to talk about this movie with
Speaker 1: you as well. Thank you for coming on the show. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me come back any time to
Speaker 1: talk about whatever. And where can people check out your
Speaker 1: stuff online? Follow you on social media anything like that. Well,
Speaker 1: folks can find me online at Johnny j on Twitter,
Speaker 1: on Facebook, and Instagram, and also check out a tribe
Speaker 1: called geek at www dot a tribe called geek dot com. Um,
Speaker 1: we have some great stuff coming up in terms of
Speaker 1: like content, but also I am so happy to announce
Speaker 1: that Indigenous pop X is back um since the pandemic,
Speaker 1: which for those of year you don't know, is kind
Speaker 1: of like the rebranding of Indigenous Comic con um. So
Speaker 1: I am super excited that we are back and we're
Speaker 1: going to be holding it in March of in Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City at the First Americans Museum. So that's an incredible
Speaker 1: as well. But I mean it's just an incredible celebration
Speaker 1: of indigenous pop culture. So if you're in the okay
Speaker 1: se area, check it out. I'm pretty sure things will
Speaker 1: be live streamed. As far as other things that are
Speaker 1: coming up, I'm going to be sharing some live streams
Speaker 1: in the next coming weeks um from a conference that
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to head out to tomorrow, and I'll
Speaker 1: be joining my Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse rest style presentation
Speaker 1: as well as some live art demonstrations. Amazing, that's so cool. Cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can find us UH in all the usual online
Speaker 1: places on Instagram and Twitter at Bexelkast. You can follow
Speaker 1: us on our patreon a k a Matreon. Five dollars
Speaker 1: a month gets you two additional episodes around a special
Speaker 1: team that you help Caitlin and I pick every month,
Speaker 1: or sometimes we just pick ourselves. So this month we're
Speaker 1: gonna be doing some fun horror movies including the James
Speaker 1: One Masterpiece, Malignant Um and also Final Destination three, So
Speaker 1: lots to look forward to over there. And Caitlyn, where
Speaker 1: can we get some merch from March that you design
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, which we don't mention enough. Um you can
Speaker 1: get that at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, support Jamie's art, Why don't you? Yes, follow
Speaker 1: your heart look no hard feelings either way. Um. And
Speaker 1: with that, um click click click click click click click click.
Speaker 1: That's how Predator says bye bye bye bye bye