Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside the Studio presented by I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Joe Levy. So my guest this time
Speaker 1: out is California girl pop princess and American Idol judge
Speaker 1: Katie Perry. We talked about her new album Smile, about
Speaker 1: how she got through the dark and difficult times that
Speaker 1: followed the release of her last album, Witness, and also
Speaker 1: about a project of hers that she'd been working on
Speaker 1: with her fiancee, Orlando Bloom. Because I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've heard, but Katy Perry just had a baby, little
Speaker 1: girl named Daisy Dove. In fact, she was so very
Speaker 1: much pregnant when we spoke that I was gonna say
Speaker 1: she might have had the baby by the time I
Speaker 1: finished this sentence, except then she actually did, and I
Speaker 1: had to go back and re record this. And now
Speaker 1: I've heard the pregnancy has been pretty easy, but in
Speaker 1: later days it's been a little harder. What's What's What's up?
Speaker 1: Katie Perry trains coming into the station, and no, I
Speaker 1: mean only a couple of days. I'm like, I have
Speaker 1: to stop and lay down. I just gotta stop. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't want to get to biological but I think
Speaker 1: technically the train is leaving the station. It's coming into
Speaker 1: the station, though it depends on if like the canal
Speaker 1: as the station. This is taking a strange turn, and
Speaker 1: I'd like to keep going down this path. My understanding,
Speaker 1: and I'm not a parent, is that the train enters
Speaker 1: the station and nine months later it leaves. But wow,
Speaker 1: I guess I need to study some biology. So a
Speaker 1: couple of things about Katie Perry. Her given name is
Speaker 1: Katherine Elizabeth Hudson. Perry is her mother's maiden name. She
Speaker 1: grew up the middle child of two Pentecostal pastor parents
Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara, California, and she wasn't allowed to do
Speaker 1: some normal kids stuff like eat lucky charms. I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe because lepre cons are pagan. Also, she couldn't watch
Speaker 1: the Smurfs, who I guess are also pagan, although now
Speaker 1: I really want some smurfberries or marshmallow green clovers. Anyway,
Speaker 1: despite her strict religious upbringing, her right maybe because of it,
Speaker 1: Catherine would grow up into Katie. She started out as
Speaker 1: a more rock leaning Atlantis Morris set sort of singer songwriter,
Speaker 1: but she developed herself into a pop sensation who played
Speaker 1: around with vintage Hollywood pin up girl and burlesque imagery,
Speaker 1: and she sang about kissing girls or having love affairs
Speaker 1: that made you perpetually feel like a teenager checking into
Speaker 1: a motel for the first time, or she sang about
Speaker 1: wanting to see your peacock or whatever it is you're
Speaker 1: hiding underneath. She also eventually became the voice of Smurfet
Speaker 1: into Smurfs Movies in two thousand eleven, and I assume
Speaker 1: at this point she's allowed to eat all the lucky
Speaker 1: charms that she wants. Perry's first album, One of the Boys,
Speaker 1: arrived in June of two thousand and eight, which was
Speaker 1: a real changing of the guard moment in popular music.
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga released her debut a few months later in October,
Speaker 1: and in November, Taylor Swift's second album, Fearless, debuted at
Speaker 1: number one on the Billboard two hundred. Also, you may
Speaker 1: have heard of a British singer who released her debut
Speaker 1: album in January of two thousand and eight. She's named
Speaker 1: a Dell. All of these women would have boundary reshaping,
Speaker 1: record setting success. The offsided stat about Katie Perry is
Speaker 1: that her second release Teenage Dream in would become only
Speaker 1: the second album in history after Michael Jackson's Bad to
Speaker 1: produce five number one singles California Girls, Teenage Dream, Firework Et,
Speaker 1: and Last Friday Night. There's a sixth single, the One
Speaker 1: That Got Away, and it missed it by that much,
Speaker 1: peaking at number three, but then in a deluxe edition
Speaker 1: of the album added more tracks, including Part of Me,
Speaker 1: which also went to number one and which, like the
Speaker 1: other songs I mentioned, sold more than two million digital
Speaker 1: downloads in the US, which gave her another record for
Speaker 1: the most multi platinum singles for one album. It's a
Speaker 1: total of eight tracks selling more than two million apiece,
Speaker 1: which is at least sixteen million song downloads, which is
Speaker 1: a whole hell of a lot. And that kind of success,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a cliche, but it's hard to follow.
Speaker 1: People are always measuring you against the mountain that you
Speaker 1: climbed and not necessarily paying attention to what you're actually
Speaker 1: accomplishing or giving them. I mean, her next album, Prison
Speaker 1: had a mirror two number one singles Roar and dark Horse,
Speaker 1: but it was the album after that where trouble really
Speaker 1: began for her. So the first single from that album
Speaker 1: Witness in twenty seventeen was called Chain to the Rhythm,
Speaker 1: and it was trying to make some sense of let's
Speaker 1: call it a post truth America where people are drowning
Speaker 1: in social media distortions, and this is a song we
Speaker 1: talked about how we're all living in our own bubble bubble,
Speaker 1: not seeing the trouble trouble. And even as someone who
Speaker 1: thinks that pop songs can be really serious things, I
Speaker 1: found it strange that Chained to the Rhythm talked about
Speaker 1: how our favorite songs themselves are a distraction that keep
Speaker 1: us stumbling around like zombies. I mean, this was like
Speaker 1: a critique of pop music that was calling from inside
Speaker 1: the house, and I found it pretty fascinating. It did
Speaker 1: go to number one, after all, but let's just say
Speaker 1: that the trying to make sense of stuff, Katy Perry
Speaker 1: was not really the Katy Perry that people seem to want.
Speaker 1: The album got some pretty terrible reviews. A lot of
Speaker 1: critics reacted like they just had enough of her, and
Speaker 1: as she told me, she had tough times coping with
Speaker 1: things after the release of Witness, certainly the split she
Speaker 1: went through with Orlando Bloom in seventeen didn't help any
Speaker 1: and Smile is an album all about this, about coping
Speaker 1: with it and getting over it, dealing with it. As
Speaker 1: you can tell from the first track, which is called
Speaker 1: never Really Over, which her relationship with Orlando Bloom was
Speaker 1: not as it turned out, the whole idea of Smile
Speaker 1: is Katie getting her smile back. But the interesting thing
Speaker 1: is that she doesn't leave out the work or the
Speaker 1: tears it took to do it. Katie told me all
Speaker 1: about the intensive, week long therapy process that she went
Speaker 1: through at a point when, as she put it, she
Speaker 1: didn't feel confident she would live to see the next year.
Speaker 1: And she talked about learning to lean less on the
Speaker 1: validation of the outside world. She talked about in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, becoming a more whole person. Here's what
Speaker 1: else she had to say. Heyy Perry, welcome to inside
Speaker 1: the studio. Hello Joe, how are you? Isn't that a
Speaker 1: loaded question? Is a loaded question? Yes it is, you've
Speaker 1: been You've been quarantining for two This is unique. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think it's probably more it's a loaded question for everyone.
Speaker 1: But um, I definitely say as I'm about to give
Speaker 1: birth to two different things, both an actual physical human
Speaker 1: being and a record that I have been doing all
Speaker 1: of my promotion in you know, quarantine, and this time
Speaker 1: it's an interesting time, sure, and and and you know
Speaker 1: a lot of women and more power to them work
Speaker 1: into their third trimester. I really hope we get this
Speaker 1: interview done before your water breaks. Yeah, well I'm to
Speaker 1: my third trimester. I'm in my fourth trimester. I'm just kidding, No,
Speaker 1: I really you know, I think you are the last
Speaker 1: one of the last people I get to speak with
Speaker 1: before my world changes. So originally this album was at
Speaker 1: one point it was going to arrive in June and
Speaker 1: then in mid August, and it's it's been pushed back
Speaker 1: a little bit. But but also you must have discussed
Speaker 1: releasing it next year. Why why did you stick with
Speaker 1: this year? What was the thinking behind that? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean this year is a year of pivoting and going
Speaker 1: with the flow for sure, um And anyone that like
Speaker 1: makes hard plans besides the fact that possibly you will
Speaker 1: have a child for me, um is you know, is
Speaker 1: maybe setting themselves up for a surprise. Uh So I
Speaker 1: wanted to put the record out in June, obviously, I
Speaker 1: wanted to give myself a little bit more space and
Speaker 1: not you know, go head to head with who's coming
Speaker 1: for who's the headliner, who's the opener? Is it the child?
Speaker 1: Is that the baby? What? Um? But I did know
Speaker 1: that I was so excited about sharing this record that
Speaker 1: actually got me to this place um of life, of
Speaker 1: fullness of life, UM, that I didn't want to push
Speaker 1: it to twenty one because I just know my energy
Speaker 1: is about to shift UM and my world is about
Speaker 1: to expand in in such an incredible way that, like
Speaker 1: I wrote, I started kind of casually writing this record
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seventeen, and it's really the sound shot.
Speaker 1: I call it like the screen shot, but the sound
Speaker 1: shot of the past three years. And I know my
Speaker 1: next couple of years are going to be so full
Speaker 1: and I will have so much to say, so let's
Speaker 1: just onto the next. Plus it's a record full of
Speaker 1: you know, hopefulness and resilience and about coming out of
Speaker 1: the darkness. So I think if anyone is going through
Speaker 1: that now, it could be it could be something for them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think in a way, we're all going
Speaker 1: through that now, to one its stand or another. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to not be in the darkness at
Speaker 1: this particular time in human history, given given the pandemic.
Speaker 1: But you talk about coming out of the darkness. There
Speaker 1: there's a note in the packaging for Smile and it's
Speaker 1: it's actually signed Katherine, not Katie, and you you say,
Speaker 1: many of these songs were written coming out of one
Speaker 1: of my own darkest times, finding and fighting for the
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel. And so I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Smile, you finding your smile again.
Speaker 1: But let's start with the dark times, because that's kind
Speaker 1: of where the album begins, isn't it. The first few
Speaker 1: tracks on the record. Yeah, let's let's travel back to us.
Speaker 1: So I guess travel back a few years to or
Speaker 1: so oren. But but that's kind of where the album
Speaker 1: begins with never really over cry about it later to
Speaker 1: realize these are these are the darker times, right, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, actually you're you're you're making a very observant note.
Speaker 1: The sequence does tell a many story, um, and it
Speaker 1: does start out with kind of the letting go, the
Speaker 1: true letting go or or making a decision to let
Speaker 1: go of this loop of love that I was in,
Speaker 1: you know, the unhealthy relationships and going like I am
Speaker 1: not going to fall back into that loop. I am
Speaker 1: going to choose a different path, even though it's difficult. Um.
Speaker 1: But the you know, there was it was a few
Speaker 1: things in two thousand and seventeen. It was, um just
Speaker 1: a shift in my own uh excitement and getting high
Speaker 1: on my own supply with putting out music. It just
Speaker 1: didn't really, it didn't. It didn't slap like it used
Speaker 1: to UM. And I right before I put out the record,
Speaker 1: I actually broke up with my now baby daddy because
Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, I got to a
Speaker 1: tipping point and I thought I was going to lean
Speaker 1: on the validation of the outside world to get me
Speaker 1: through you know, the bummer time of breaking up with someone.
Speaker 1: But then, you know, then I wasn't getting fed from
Speaker 1: the outside world like I was used to. So everything
Speaker 1: started falling apart. Basically, the foundation started cracking. And I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that I put so much um uh self
Speaker 1: worth and validation and everyone else's hands, and when they
Speaker 1: don't give it back to you, it's a huge void. Um.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about when when Witness came out, that's
Speaker 1: that's the moment when we're it's you know, as a
Speaker 1: Katy Perry fan, as somebody who, hey, that's not my
Speaker 1: favorite Katie Perry record, but I like a lot of
Speaker 1: songs on it. It's a Katie Perry record. But the
Speaker 1: world seemed to say, like, you know what, maybe we've
Speaker 1: had enough, maybe we want to take a break. Am
Speaker 1: I am I exaggerating? No, you are not at all.
Speaker 1: You are so right. And I felt that, and I
Speaker 1: am a you know, I'm a master of feelings. That's
Speaker 1: my job is to um observe and feel the feelings
Speaker 1: and you know, put them into little definitions and ideas
Speaker 1: and songs. I take feelings and I create worlds. So
Speaker 1: I was feeling that rejection pretty heavily. Um and you
Speaker 1: know I did. I did what a lot of artists
Speaker 1: do at some point in their careers, is I took
Speaker 1: a leap because I wanted to experiment. I wanted to
Speaker 1: break them kind of box that I had created for
Speaker 1: myself of being maybe a little too Sachard or too pop.
Speaker 1: I wanted to really sonically investigate the dimensions out there.
Speaker 1: And I did. And so Witness was really my kind
Speaker 1: of like a little bit, a little bit not too much.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was like going cuckoo for cocoa puffs,
Speaker 1: you know, experimentally. Um. But I was definitely trying on
Speaker 1: new things and I loved it. Um. I was just
Speaker 1: trying to like kind of shake an old version of
Speaker 1: myself and evolve and I didn't really know how to
Speaker 1: do it, but this was my way of doing it artistically. Um.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it was um. It was a It
Speaker 1: was a shift, and it wasn't like the biggest shift,
Speaker 1: like I still had a number one record, I still
Speaker 1: had success with change of the rhythm. Bona petite is
Speaker 1: a huge you know, there's you know, if you look
Speaker 1: at it from a numbers world or a business world,
Speaker 1: it's not like as much as maybe I am I
Speaker 1: I made it out to be, or as much as
Speaker 1: I felt it. But remember I was only on a
Speaker 1: roller coaster going up for ten years, like hot hot, hot,
Speaker 1: hot fire, and any one small little shift was was
Speaker 1: like it was like the first time, you know, you
Speaker 1: feel an earthquake, You're like, what the hell is that?
Speaker 1: I'm getting my coffee? Okay, all right, I'm glad, I'm
Speaker 1: is it decalf Katie? Are you allowed to have caffeinated coffee?
Speaker 1: I am? Thank you for your concern and also she
Speaker 1: is cooked. Okay. She literally has a hand coming out
Speaker 1: right now waving to you. I'm good. You were saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm not going to compare myself to
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, but when Bob Dylan did his electric record,
Speaker 1: people were like boom, or when what's his name did
Speaker 1: his eighties record? Um, I'm totally pregnancy brain. That's why
Speaker 1: I grabbed my coffee. It's totally fine. But you know what,
Speaker 1: there are moments where people don't even have to try
Speaker 1: different things to get negative feedback. Like I think back
Speaker 1: to being a Madonna fan, Erotica comes out from from
Speaker 1: my perspective, her most consistent record from beginning to end,
Speaker 1: the world was like, yeah, I don't want this, We
Speaker 1: don't want this right now? Or Lady Gaga with art pop.
Speaker 1: The world suddenly seemed to discover all at once that
Speaker 1: she's kind of pretentious, and I was like, didn't we
Speaker 1: know that from the start, and that one of the
Speaker 1: reasons we enjoy her? Yeah, Like didn't we didn't? We
Speaker 1: love the the attitude, right wow, I love that, you
Speaker 1: know what it's and and it makes me feel like
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm on the right path, and it's
Speaker 1: really about peaks and valleys and writing it. Especially when
Speaker 1: I hear about you know, someone like yourself. You're a
Speaker 1: couple of years older than I am, but you've been
Speaker 1: a music fan and you saw Erotica, You've seen Madonna
Speaker 1: go through all those evolutions, and she's someone I really
Speaker 1: look up to for a couple of pillars. She has
Speaker 1: fought against agism, she has fought against sexism, she has
Speaker 1: fought against stereotypes. Like everyone wanted to put her in
Speaker 1: a box and she has broken. She's blown that box
Speaker 1: up every single time. And like whatever you think about
Speaker 1: her now, great, but like she laid the foundation, meaning
Speaker 1: like you know, she's still evolving and still changing. And
Speaker 1: I went and saw her last show, and if I'm
Speaker 1: doing that at her age, I would be so lucky.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I don't. I don't think I will be
Speaker 1: uh moving aerobically for that long a period. Uh that's
Speaker 1: the minutes of an exercise class, is what I can
Speaker 1: get through. Not an entire Madonna production. I mean it was,
Speaker 1: and it was really it was like it was innovative
Speaker 1: and interesting and it wasn't phoned in. But like thinking back,
Speaker 1: you know what you know of course, like I hear
Speaker 1: about um just you know, like people talking about there's
Speaker 1: always something shiny and new every year, right, and it's
Speaker 1: different when you be when you're not the shiny new thing,
Speaker 1: and it does something to your psychology. But it's it's
Speaker 1: it's actually it's like a good test of your character
Speaker 1: and a good test of who you are as an
Speaker 1: artist and what you're made of. And I just think back,
Speaker 1: like some of my favorite albums that I was aware
Speaker 1: of because I was, you know, a little bit younger,
Speaker 1: but Ray of Light, right after she had her baby,
Speaker 1: you know, changed my life. Confessions on a dance floor.
Speaker 1: She's in her forties, I think, you know, like, so
Speaker 1: I look at that, I go, wow, I'm excited for
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah. But but you were also talking about
Speaker 1: seeking validation from outside and and that moment when Witness
Speaker 1: came out was a moment. You may have had the numbers,
Speaker 1: you may have had the hits, but it was a
Speaker 1: moment where what was coming back. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how much you read criticism, but what was coming back
Speaker 1: would be a little mean, a little pointed. And I
Speaker 1: don't know how active you are on social media. Many
Speaker 1: of us follow you. I don't know how much you
Speaker 1: follow the rest of us. But did that stuff coming back,
Speaker 1: did it get you down? Yeah? I mean I don't
Speaker 1: have Google alerts on myself. Um, and I do wish that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I could be just you know, you just
Speaker 1: put it out in the world and go there. It
Speaker 1: is goodbye. And I do know I like and I
Speaker 1: maybe say it out loud because I'm still telling myself
Speaker 1: I have no control once I put it out, it
Speaker 1: is up to the consumer. It is up to the
Speaker 1: audience to do with it as they please. This is
Speaker 1: just my story, this is my experience, this is my touchdone.
Speaker 1: It's actually a real touchdone of a record. For me,
Speaker 1: smile is to remind myself that I walked through the
Speaker 1: hell and I survived it. But when Witness came out,
Speaker 1: or when any record comes out, you are more aware
Speaker 1: because just there's so much going on and so you
Speaker 1: will see stuff and you will hear stuff. But it
Speaker 1: was definitely like every artist goes through a bit of
Speaker 1: a leveling period, and it was definitely the leveling period.
Speaker 1: And I really believe that, you know, more than half
Speaker 1: of the reason I'm here is because of people, and
Speaker 1: they do have the power and they put me on
Speaker 1: the pedestal, and they, you know, every once in a
Speaker 1: while need to remind whoever they put on the pedestal
Speaker 1: that they put them there and smile. You talk about
Speaker 1: being served a piece of humble pie. Rejection can be
Speaker 1: God's protection. That's a lyric that popped out at me.
Speaker 1: Daisy's got um. It seems like a reference to this
Speaker 1: is well, took those sticks and stones showed them I
Speaker 1: could build a house. Right, I mean, this is this
Speaker 1: is you're you're you're talking about turning around the negativity
Speaker 1: into something useful for yourself. Well, I mean this might
Speaker 1: stunt a little bit, like you know, spiritual hippie dippy,
Speaker 1: but my brokenness became my wholeness because it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a scorpio. So I definitely resonate with
Speaker 1: the continual story of the phoenix rising from the ashes
Speaker 1: or the flower growing through the concrete. Like Resilient says
Speaker 1: on the record, Um, I I learned my best lessons
Speaker 1: from hitting the bottom sometimes or falling flat on my face.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I think when I say rejection is
Speaker 1: God protect God's protection or um took those six and
Speaker 1: stones and showed him I could build a house. I
Speaker 1: I built a new foundation and a version of me,
Speaker 1: not a version of me. I nurtured myself to be
Speaker 1: a multidimensional human rather than just a single minded you know,
Speaker 1: um one goal, which is to become the best pop
Speaker 1: star ever and ring that bell and have the biggest
Speaker 1: success tour, you know, number one, blah blah blah. Now
Speaker 1: like now I know how to be still. Now I
Speaker 1: know that, Like I'm going to have a baby and
Speaker 1: be a mother. Now I know how to say no,
Speaker 1: and now I know how to have like pause. I
Speaker 1: I was on a rocket ship and holding on for
Speaker 1: dear life and kind of foaming at the mouth, and
Speaker 1: it just feels a lot more grounded and expansive because
Speaker 1: I kind of got out of that loop of one
Speaker 1: single idea of one goal, you know. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think I'll look back and be like thanks God
Speaker 1: for otherwise. I feel like, you know, you read these
Speaker 1: stories sometimes about your favorite entertainers not having the best ending,
Speaker 1: and I want to be a grandma. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: that's putting a little pressure on the baby that hasn't
Speaker 1: been born yet. But we've we've she's she's got some
Speaker 1: time to catch up to your desire for grandchildren. What
Speaker 1: I'm saying, So let's talk about how some of this
Speaker 1: building the multidimensional Katie or Catherine happens. Um. You know, Uh,
Speaker 1: you talked a little bit. I think it was about this,
Speaker 1: and I was interested by this, so I looked it up.
Speaker 1: This intensive therapy project that the Hoffman Process, um and
Speaker 1: and I've read a little about it. You said it
Speaker 1: was a reset for you. I know it was started
Speaker 1: in the sixties by guy named Bob Hoffman. That it's
Speaker 1: a week long therapy retreat and it's centered around letting
Speaker 1: go of negative behaviors. What can you tell me about
Speaker 1: It's like ten years of therapy in one week. It's
Speaker 1: like concentrated juice. I'm done for that. Uh not because
Speaker 1: I want to take a shortcut, because I just like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to fight my demons for
Speaker 1: ten years. UM. So you know, it's a There's a
Speaker 1: lot of different things out there, but this process definitely
Speaker 1: put me on a new path. And actually my friends
Speaker 1: had gone before me, Orlando had gone before me. Um
Speaker 1: and I ended up going because I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I don't really have any more options. I either decide
Speaker 1: to change myself or I may not live to see
Speaker 1: the next year. Um, and so I did it. And
Speaker 1: it's basically it's one of the main things that you
Speaker 1: do is you rewire the way you think about yourself.
Speaker 1: Which I don't know about you, but for me, I
Speaker 1: have this like CNN News ticker of negat ativity that
Speaker 1: was constantly going through my mind, you know, and just
Speaker 1: like saying, you're fat, you're ugly, ugly, you're a loser,
Speaker 1: you're you just got lucky, you're just you know, you're
Speaker 1: not really invited, You'll never be enough, you'll never be enough,
Speaker 1: You'll never be enough, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And that was really loud, and um. There there's a
Speaker 1: process there by way of you know, like different like
Speaker 1: guided visualizations, different psychological exercise exercises, silence that you really
Speaker 1: quiet it and it and and it still pops up,
Speaker 1: you know, like the devil doesn't sleep. I always say that, like,
Speaker 1: and the devil works harder. It's those are two sayings
Speaker 1: I think that are hundreds of years old and still
Speaker 1: ring true. Like, you know, everything in life is two things.
Speaker 1: It's a yen a yang. You may not believe in
Speaker 1: the devil, but there is a positive and a negative,
Speaker 1: and you really have to do the work to stay
Speaker 1: on the positive path. So yeah, I went there and
Speaker 1: it changed my life and I've so far been able
Speaker 1: to um, you know send I would say thirty forty
Speaker 1: different people that are close to me, and it's changed
Speaker 1: their lives and I could not recommend it more. And
Speaker 1: it's the hardest thing you'll ever do. But it's a rebirth, um,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, rebirths are not neat and tidy,
Speaker 1: They're messy and bloody. Says the expectant mother. Uh, you
Speaker 1: were an assistant dullah for your sister for her home birth.
Speaker 1: Do I have this right? You've you've been through the
Speaker 1: birthing process for his secondhand as it were. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I wasn't. I wouldn't label myself as a duela,
Speaker 1: but um, I was there and I helped, and I
Speaker 1: saw and I experienced and I've seen the miracle of
Speaker 1: child birth and you know, so I M I haven't
Speaker 1: felt it, but I won't won't be surprised by the
Speaker 1: by the site and the idea of it. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to have that, you know, and not just have
Speaker 1: only YouTube video references to go by. So in talking
Speaker 1: about the happening process, you said two things I want
Speaker 1: to circle back on because there you were saying a
Speaker 1: lot there um and And the first is you said
Speaker 1: you went there and you felt like you had to
Speaker 1: go there, or you weren't sure you were going to
Speaker 1: see the next year or the next day. My voice,
Speaker 1: those voices were so loud, so and stop me if
Speaker 1: I'm getting too personal. Does that mean you were thinking
Speaker 1: I'm going to check out, I'm I'm I'm done, I'm
Speaker 1: withdrawing from life, or I'm ending my life or what? What? What?
Speaker 1: What were those voices saying? Yeah, I mean it was
Speaker 1: just saying that like, oh, you know, it's getting too
Speaker 1: hard to deal with the weight of the world old
Speaker 1: or you know, I don't know how other people think
Speaker 1: when they have these thoughts, if they ever have these thoughts,
Speaker 1: and not a lot of people have them. Some people do.
Speaker 1: Some people are listening right now and bobbing their hand
Speaker 1: and go, yep, I know exactly what she's talking about. UM.
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes it's like, oh, I'll have the
Speaker 1: last word. UM, you know I had I just had
Speaker 1: a friend of a friend, unfortunately UM pass away by
Speaker 1: taking her own life. And it was one of those
Speaker 1: things that we I'm not very close to her, but
Speaker 1: um and God rest her soul, but it was one
Speaker 1: of those things where she was suffering. And some people
Speaker 1: suffer so much and it's so hard, and they don't
Speaker 1: know where to turn, and they don't have the tools,
Speaker 1: and they're like almost just kind of stuck in that mindset.
Speaker 1: They just have no idea how to think outside of
Speaker 1: that mindset. And for me, I was there. I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know exactly that feeling. I know, like
Speaker 1: anyone could you know, someone could be like, well just
Speaker 1: think on the bright side, and you're like, fuck off.
Speaker 1: You're like you don't understand where I'm at right now mentally,
Speaker 1: like I can't get out of bed or what have you.
Speaker 1: But um, it's the real deal, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't discriminate, like depression and anxiety and all those things.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how much you have or how much
Speaker 1: you don't have. Sometimes you see the person that doesn't
Speaker 1: have anything and they're the happiest person in the world.
Speaker 1: You're like, what I mean, this is not what we've
Speaker 1: been sold. You know, I really want to express my
Speaker 1: admiration and appreciation for you being so open about this,
Speaker 1: and and I also want to emphasize that it's not
Speaker 1: the first time you've been vulnerable in this way. When
Speaker 1: I was preparing to do this interview, I went back
Speaker 1: I watched the part of Me film UM and I
Speaker 1: aw you at one of your lowest moments and thought,
Speaker 1: this is a brave choice to show yourself. You're you're
Speaker 1: in tears, you're you're dealing with the fallout of your
Speaker 1: first marriage, you're deciding whether or not to get on stage,
Speaker 1: and this is your movie. That was your choice to
Speaker 1: show this in this movie. And I thought, this is
Speaker 1: kind of amazing. Uh, this is this is brave. Is
Speaker 1: either like show the real and feel like connected and
Speaker 1: or or show some kind of cookie cutter propaganda like
Speaker 1: we all do on Instagram. Like what if we had
Speaker 1: an alt version of ourselves on Instagram where you just
Speaker 1: took photos of yourself when you're in the worst, like
Speaker 1: when you're crying, when you're upset, when you're stressed out,
Speaker 1: that would be that would be a real serve, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we only take photos of ourselves when we're
Speaker 1: trying to project perfectionism. And it's like tail as old
Speaker 1: as time you see sometimes people have like the best
Speaker 1: Instagram and then you meet them in real life and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, you're not the same person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen that movie. We put up vacation pictures. We
Speaker 1: don't put up our shitty day at work pictures. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like Joe, even if you just like took
Speaker 1: a photo of yourself off the shitty day at work
Speaker 1: and you just captioned it shitty day at work with
Speaker 1: like no like other angle, it would just be so
Speaker 1: funny because it's so real, you know. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: most seven out of ten days are kind of like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they not seven, maybe five maybe, I don't know. That's
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a pretty good average. Actually, out of
Speaker 1: ten in the pandemic, maybe three to five in outside
Speaker 1: of it. Okay, alright, alright, so, um, once we get
Speaker 1: past the darkness and we get back into the Daisies
Speaker 1: resilient not the end of the world, smile this moment
Speaker 1: in the album where you're you're you're regaining some of
Speaker 1: that power, some of that resilience, some of that smile
Speaker 1: talk to me about about first, let's talk about that
Speaker 1: point in your life. How did you reclaim that for
Speaker 1: yourself and then let's talk about the music. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I literally just had to kind of like push myself
Speaker 1: at my body and put one foot in front of
Speaker 1: the other, and like it's like when you when you
Speaker 1: for me, I don't love exercising, but I just we
Speaker 1: all just know that it's it feels so great afterwards,
Speaker 1: and then you tell yourself afterwards, You're like why don't
Speaker 1: I do this every day? You know? But putting on
Speaker 1: the sports where it's like come on, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like why, And so that's kind of what it was.
Speaker 1: It was like moving with cement feet, but I could
Speaker 1: still move little by little and the steps got bigger,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, there were people that were helping
Speaker 1: me obviously, Like Orlando never deserted me through this time.
Speaker 1: He was always there. Definitely had boundaries, and but it
Speaker 1: was always there kind of as a pillar and leading
Speaker 1: by example, and he was conscious of where I was.
Speaker 1: So he was there for me with you know, with
Speaker 1: with some boundaries, which was great. And so you know,
Speaker 1: it was good to have some friends and the my
Speaker 1: my team that I've had with me for over fifteen years.
Speaker 1: They were just like pushing me in the right direction.
Speaker 1: They helped me create the space to you know, do
Speaker 1: things like the Hoffman process. Um. But you know, I
Speaker 1: do have this higher self inside of me just like
Speaker 1: everyone else does, Like this higher consciousness, this better self
Speaker 1: inside of me that sometimes just takes over and goes
Speaker 1: all right, sweetie, looks like you can't put your pants
Speaker 1: on one leg at a time anymore. I'm gonna take
Speaker 1: over and I'm dragging you to words the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel. You know, there's like it's almost a bit
Speaker 1: magical in that way, like I truly believe I'm a
Speaker 1: soul wearing a costume or a meat sack. Um, And
Speaker 1: sometimes my soul is the one that's like, no, sweetie,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it now on my terms. So a
Speaker 1: little a little help from the ovens of sorts, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, and cry about it later. Teary eyes, those
Speaker 1: are those are sort of tears on the dance floor,
Speaker 1: like let's let's have a little fun. There's there's some
Speaker 1: bad times, there's some tragedy, but let's have a little fun.
Speaker 1: Was was that part of it for you too? Were you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: There's I mean there's some necessary escapism, but you know,
Speaker 1: you can't escape too much then, because then you find
Speaker 1: yourself at that um. You know, that that um, that
Speaker 1: Donkey Donkey, Disneyland and Pinocchio, where like you go there,
Speaker 1: it's fun, you're gambling your drink in, you're having cigars,
Speaker 1: you're with your friends, and then you turn into an ass.
Speaker 1: So you have to get out before you turn into
Speaker 1: an ass. And it's a fine line, and sometimes it
Speaker 1: creeps up on you. You know, it's like right around
Speaker 1: there and you're like, oh crap. I always referenced that
Speaker 1: time in Pinocchio because it's so true. It's like, have
Speaker 1: a little fun, but straddle the line, guys um, and
Speaker 1: so cry about it later. Interior Eyes is definitely about,
Speaker 1: you know, letting the letting go. It's the letting go
Speaker 1: of the loop of love that I was in, you know.
Speaker 1: It's the letting go of idealism. Is the letting go
Speaker 1: of the idea I could change someone. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the letting go of my twenties. It's the letting go
Speaker 1: of fantasy. It's the letting go of you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of different things. So I think there's like it's
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna keep moving, but I'm I may be crying.
Speaker 1: But that's okay, all right, here we go. Oh, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna let go and we're gonna keep moving. That's
Speaker 1: a lot to uh, that's a lot to let go.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of ground to cover in just two songs, Katie, Uh,
Speaker 1: well there's there. So there's a lot of other vibes.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. Smile and Daisies or or both
Speaker 1: songs about getting getting some strength back, taking some strength back,
Speaker 1: letting your higher self, higher better self, take the wheel
Speaker 1: as it were. Um, these are songs. We've been in
Speaker 1: this territory before with your records. You know, you've given
Speaker 1: us firework and roar and and so we're smiling Daisies.
Speaker 1: Are these more personal songs this time? Or the Cousins? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're more t m I cousins, Well not Daisies. But Smile,
Speaker 1: you know, is definitely kind of a real calendar journey
Speaker 1: of like what I went through, Like it's very it's
Speaker 1: very this is this is exactly how I would explain
Speaker 1: it if it wasn't in a song, right, But Daisy
Speaker 1: is a little bit you know, less personal maybe and
Speaker 1: for everyone to kind of find themselves in it as well,
Speaker 1: because I'm not the first person to have a dream
Speaker 1: bigger than what everyone else says I should be dreaming.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not the first one to dream big
Speaker 1: and then try and go for it um and be
Speaker 1: laughed at all along the way. Um. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that really resonate and relate
Speaker 1: to that that narrative. Like I said, I seem to
Speaker 1: really embody my scorpio archetype. I know jack shit about astrology,
Speaker 1: so you can tell me anything you want about that
Speaker 1: scorpio archetype and I'll agree with it. All I know
Speaker 1: is that the stars have been here for a long
Speaker 1: time before me, and we'll be there way after me,
Speaker 1: so they must hold some significant step. Sure, this is
Speaker 1: something we may need to consult Neil to grasp Tyson for.
Speaker 1: But yes, no, I think that there's there's probably some
Speaker 1: significance in in the Stars. It's funny you mentioned Smile
Speaker 1: as a almost like a timeline, and it's got that
Speaker 1: Lionel Richie name check in it. How much was American idol?
Speaker 1: I don't know a kind of safe place for you
Speaker 1: or replaced it to get back some some sense of
Speaker 1: strength and self because it's a different experience to do
Speaker 1: that show than to go out on the road touring.
Speaker 1: Is it a little healthier. Yeah, there's balance and that
Speaker 1: you're not, you know, flying from Europe to Australia twice
Speaker 1: a week, you know, I mean really it's it takes
Speaker 1: its toll sometimes when your body feels upside down. Um,
Speaker 1: the physical aspect of of touring is really intense. And
Speaker 1: every time I'm finishing a tour, I get a tattoo
Speaker 1: to kind of commemorate the intensity. And we all get
Speaker 1: a tattoo. It's like a bloodshed moment. You mean, the
Speaker 1: whole crew, everybody ever. Yeah, it's like I bring a
Speaker 1: tattoo artist and it's like a bloodshed bonding moment. It's like, Wow,
Speaker 1: we lived to tell and we're proud of it, you know,
Speaker 1: and now we'll now we'll forever have kind of this
Speaker 1: signature on ourselves that says that tells a story. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a moment for me to Also I've always
Speaker 1: wanted to do something like this American idol or you know,
Speaker 1: something that involved music and talent and competition. But I've
Speaker 1: always just been going hunter and fifty miles per hour.
Speaker 1: And also I took it as an opportunity for the
Speaker 1: American public to have better understanding of me as a
Speaker 1: person and not just as what they you know, saw
Speaker 1: what what I what? What what? Either I bite size,
Speaker 1: hand fed or the media decided that they we're going
Speaker 1: to make me out to be because the media can
Speaker 1: make anyone out to be any type of character. Um.
Speaker 1: And if you don't tell your story, someone's gonna tell
Speaker 1: it for you, honey. And so I found it to
Speaker 1: be uh, not only it was like three pronged. Of course,
Speaker 1: it was a way for me to have balance at home.
Speaker 1: It was a way for me to really kind of um,
Speaker 1: have a bigger better relationship with with the public personally,
Speaker 1: personality wise. And it truly was a show that was
Speaker 1: actually changing lives. And I'm about that, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: about people. I'm about heart, some about wholeness and happiness,
Speaker 1: and like this show every season has a lottery ticket
Speaker 1: for someone out there who's life will be changed and
Speaker 1: maybe even in the top five or top ten, their
Speaker 1: life will be changed and their fit and that means
Speaker 1: their family's life will be changed. That means you know,
Speaker 1: it's a ripple trickle down effect. Um. And so I
Speaker 1: love this show more than any of the shows, because
Speaker 1: you can name ten different successful artists and no other
Speaker 1: show you can, you know, even even if it shares
Speaker 1: this a little bit of the same format. And that's
Speaker 1: that's as trash talking as I'll be. Okay, While the
Speaker 1: gauntlet is thrown down, the American Idol Voice feud continues.
Speaker 1: It's not a feud. I'm not trying to make it
Speaker 1: out to be one. We don't have to complain about anything.
Speaker 1: I know you've you know, you've been very public about
Speaker 1: saying that you view the uh mending of fen is
Speaker 1: between you and Taylor Swift is a lesson for young
Speaker 1: women out there. Uh you know, I know you're not
Speaker 1: going to talk trash. You can only lead by example, huh. Okay,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you know, it's important to do that for
Speaker 1: the greater good. Okay, it's important to do it for
Speaker 1: you as well, right, I mean for the on the
Speaker 1: personal level, of course, of course that's important. But you know,
Speaker 1: you think about if you can, if you can zoom out,
Speaker 1: you think about you know, all of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess we are people that some young people look
Speaker 1: up to, and um, you know, I've never had a
Speaker 1: problem with that in the beginning. I remember it was
Speaker 1: so interesting into it was all about purity rings and
Speaker 1: the Jonas brothers had purity rings and everybody wasn't having
Speaker 1: sex before marriage, and you know there's this like real
Speaker 1: like traditionalism, and you know there there is all of
Speaker 1: the questions that were being asked of me and my
Speaker 1: two and three years is about being a role model.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of like I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: want to. I didn't want to say yes, because, uh,
Speaker 1: does a being a role model mean I have to
Speaker 1: be perfect and I can never make a mistake. It
Speaker 1: felt like that's what the setup was, right because I
Speaker 1: knew I was just I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: make mistakes, especially from where I come from. You know,
Speaker 1: I was born in like a single frame of mind.
Speaker 1: And um, so so you mean that you you you
Speaker 1: came from a sort of evangelist Christian perspective where a
Speaker 1: certain kind of I mean, being a role model was
Speaker 1: literally expected, right, I mean it's very clear. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm I'm a pastor's daughter. So like I
Speaker 1: understood what it means, what it meant to sit in
Speaker 1: the front role and not fidget and like you know,
Speaker 1: and to be attentive and aware and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: take notes and like lead by example. But I was
Speaker 1: never that way, and um, I always I always knew
Speaker 1: I was just like well all a lot of my
Speaker 1: education started when I had the opportunity to travel like expansively,
Speaker 1: when I was twenty three, when things started all happening.
Speaker 1: So most of my peeling off of ignorance and lack
Speaker 1: of education has just happened under the spotlight, you know.
Speaker 1: That's that's why I don't always get it right, because
Speaker 1: I'm learning through the process. Certainly, I remember this time
Speaker 1: when that first record came out. But it's so funny
Speaker 1: that that people are gonna come to you and ask
Speaker 1: you about being a role model, because coloring outside the
Speaker 1: lines was one of the great things about you at
Speaker 1: the start, that you you were in a cookie cutter
Speaker 1: pop star, that you you were you were different, right,
Speaker 1: I mean you you know, you had you had you
Speaker 1: had a sense of humor, You might curse, you might
Speaker 1: kiss a girl. We didn't know what was gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Can you believe you know? I wrote a song about
Speaker 1: you know, bisexuality back in two thousand and eight, and
Speaker 1: it was so taboo wow. Um. I also like to
Speaker 1: remind people that this is the business of rock and roll.
Speaker 1: Pre Internet, everyone was like having sex with everyone and
Speaker 1: doing copious amounts of drugs. So where was I? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Joe, you remember the time well, as the
Speaker 1: old Grace Slick saying goes, if you can remember them,
Speaker 1: you weren't there, that's amazing. But I barely can't remember twenties.
Speaker 1: So there we go. We had fun. Though. One last
Speaker 1: thing about the whole idea of the smile. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole idea of smiling. It comes up in another song.
Speaker 1: Not the end of the world you're talking about. Take
Speaker 1: that frown, turn it upside down, right. Its flipping things around.
Speaker 1: There's a reference to the old song uh Nana Hey,
Speaker 1: kiss him goodbye, but you're saying, don't say goodbye. So
Speaker 1: it's really about flipping things around. And it's like duality again.
Speaker 1: It's like it's to two choices. Like this free will
Speaker 1: thing that we have that people talk about. You have
Speaker 1: a choice to do this or a choice to do that.
Speaker 1: Every choice has an outcome. Um. Every you know, thought
Speaker 1: can be either negative or positive. Um. And you can
Speaker 1: either see an ending as a beginning or you can
Speaker 1: see an ending as a as a doom doom, doom
Speaker 1: doom moment. But I believe that everything is cyclical and
Speaker 1: that the ending is so close to the beginning, just
Speaker 1: like the hate is so close to the love you
Speaker 1: can almost reach out and touch it. But you know,
Speaker 1: in what sense? Can the smile or is the smile
Speaker 1: sometimes a mask? You know, we see you on the
Speaker 1: cover of the album. You're made up as a clown.
Speaker 1: You're you're You're not You're the sad clown, maybe not
Speaker 1: the happy clown. Melancholy melancholy a more sophisticated word, I
Speaker 1: stand corrected, Well, it is. It is playing off of
Speaker 1: that kind of simple narrative, the narrative of the clown
Speaker 1: who lust its smile or a sense of playfulness. Um,
Speaker 1: but I guess the I guess the album. The music
Speaker 1: actually is a lot more upbeat and you know, um
Speaker 1: energetic than the art is on the cover. I think
Speaker 1: maybe what I'm trying to say, or as I figured
Speaker 1: it out up until now, is that like through that
Speaker 1: art is that I found my smile. But wow, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna be ignorant to think that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: everything is hunky dorrier Peachie Keen jelly Bean for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life, like I will never not have problems,
Speaker 1: or like, for instance, if I could amend the saying
Speaker 1: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger too, what doesn't
Speaker 1: kill you makes you stronger, but sometimes you lose a limb,
Speaker 1: you know, or sometimes you stay in bed for a while,
Speaker 1: then I would because it's not always as black and
Speaker 1: white as what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's like,
Speaker 1: holy hell, that was intense. So I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about the last track on the record, What Makes
Speaker 1: a Woman, where you sing about feeling it your most beautiful,
Speaker 1: doing whatever the funk you want. Um So, when I
Speaker 1: first heard of this song, I thought about the acoustic
Speaker 1: album that you've threatened to make in the past. You know,
Speaker 1: you've talked about this a couple of times, right, and
Speaker 1: playing acoustic guitar is is one of the places where
Speaker 1: things really started for you with music. Um So, talk
Speaker 1: to me a little bit about this song, which you've
Speaker 1: said is has a real particular importance to you. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean many people that sequence the record or artists,
Speaker 1: they are always mindful of the first and the last song.
Speaker 1: The first song sets the town and that's what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do with this one with never really over.
Speaker 1: It's familiar, you sing along, you're already in. You get
Speaker 1: a good feeling from it because of maybe the nostalgia
Speaker 1: of not COVID two thousand nine, right, a different time, right.
Speaker 1: And then it ends with what makes a woman? Because
Speaker 1: it's really the I guess it's um, the song that
Speaker 1: I really resonate with the most, even right now, even
Speaker 1: even though I I didn't write it when I had
Speaker 1: a child in me. UM. But it is almost a
Speaker 1: trick question, um, because if you can answer what makes
Speaker 1: a woman, then maybe you are not a woman or
Speaker 1: you have yet to live your whole life as a woman.
Speaker 1: In that there's so much expansiveness. UM. I always and
Speaker 1: I have fought against this narrative that women are just
Speaker 1: one thing or can do just one thing. And it's
Speaker 1: really interesting, you know, I do these interviews and sometimes
Speaker 1: I will get people that you can tell are still
Speaker 1: they still think in a certain type of way, and
Speaker 1: they go Also, once you know you have the baby,
Speaker 1: you're going to go away for a while and you know,
Speaker 1: be a mom, and that's it, and just why don't
Speaker 1: you just go away and I'm like, um, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: You know, Beyonce has twins and another daughter and she's
Speaker 1: you know, doing what she loves. And there's many people
Speaker 1: that are working moms and do what they love. And
Speaker 1: are you basically telling me to forfeit or that I
Speaker 1: have to choose or that I won't I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: What I hear is that, like, I wouldn't be enough
Speaker 1: if I was doing both. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be doing it right. I guess that's what
Speaker 1: I hear. And what I think is like, actually, I
Speaker 1: feel like we were given this incredible opportunity to create
Speaker 1: life because we have more than enough. We have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we are women, are you know, we get a little
Speaker 1: bit stereotyped that we're incredibly emotional figures. That's because we
Speaker 1: can create multiple humans with multiple sets of emotions. Like
Speaker 1: it's all in there, honey, we are born with those eggs.
Speaker 1: We got it right. So it's also a song about
Speaker 1: the effortlessness that you know, we balance life with as women,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we decide to do it all in one
Speaker 1: day and go out in a pair of heels just
Speaker 1: to show off, like that we can't, you know, like
Speaker 1: There's a lot of layers and UM, it's just my
Speaker 1: it is my um constant way of you know, trying
Speaker 1: to um, I guess, fight for the right to be
Speaker 1: anything I want to be or try anything I want
Speaker 1: to try and be that chameleon that I know I
Speaker 1: am and not be put in a box. You brought
Speaker 1: up this sort of the expectations of what happens next.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're gonna take a break, maybe you're But so
Speaker 1: let me ask you what what happens next? Katie? What? What? What? What? What?
Speaker 1: What's the future? Hold? Whatever I want? Honestly, I'll do
Speaker 1: it as it comes. If you know, if I I
Speaker 1: feel like I can balance beautifully, I will. If I
Speaker 1: feel like I can't, I won't. I will obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: put my vulnerable young soon to be born child first. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm I don't think I'm going to
Speaker 1: have a plan necessarily. Planning is future. I just I
Speaker 1: think it's one of those moments where it's like just
Speaker 1: be present, sure, change some diapers and see what happens
Speaker 1: exactly all right, Katie Perry, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you Joe, thanks for this. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio is a production of I heart Radio.
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