1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome in special out kick the Show. I am Clay Travis. 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: You might well have heard me converse with this man 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: on his podcast here recently. He is Steven A Smith 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: of ESPN, and we're going to have a lot of fun. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: I think you guys are going to enjoy it, and 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: I can't wait to bring him in. But let's go 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: ahead and bring in Steven A. Now. We did a 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: home and home. I appreciate right off the top of 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: you having me on your podcast several months ago when 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: we talked then you said you would come on. You 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: asked the questions last time, I'll ask, although I'm sure 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: there'll be questions going back and forth, as both of 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: us are used to asking and answering questions. So let's 14 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: start off right here. This is a question I always 15 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: like to ask. I wanted to be good at radio 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: writing and TV because I saw Tony Kornheiser do it 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: and do it so well with The Washington Post, with 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: his local radio show, and then obviously with PTI, which 19 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: is probably the most iconic, certainly sports show. I would 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: say of the last twenty five years or so, beyond 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: the shadow of doubt, I think you'd probably agree with that. Too, 22 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: So I'm curious for you right off the top. You 23 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: have had success writing, You've had success on radio, You've 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: had success on TV, which is harder? Which do you 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: like more? How would you assess the different challenges of 26 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: each discipline and was it your goal? Was there someone 27 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: you saw who was good at all three that you 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: sought to emulate in your career in some capacity? 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: Well, I would say to you, the hardest is writing, obviously. 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: So just finished writing a book, a bestseller. I'll never 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: want to write a book again every in life. 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: I don't want. 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: I don't want any parts of it. Okay, it's one 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: of the hardest things that I've ever had to do. 35 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: And not only that, that's not where my confidence lies. 36 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: People are usually telling me what a good writer I am. 37 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: I've never quite believed that totally. I knew I could 38 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: write a little bit. I can write good enough to 39 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: be a professional writer, but watching the greats like the 40 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: Ralph Wileys of the world and the Michael Willbonds of 41 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: the world, along with the bevy of others. I mean, 42 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: I grew in Philadelphia with I worked for the Phillyelphie Inquirer. 43 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: I thought Bill, you know Bill Lion was a poet, 44 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 2: you know, people like that. Tony Kornhizer was absolutely fabulous 45 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: and hysterical. 46 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: The list just goes on and on. 47 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: And I was definitely an admirer of Ralph Wiley and 48 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: the great work that he did. 49 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: What I enjoy most is television. 50 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: Now radio is right in between, because I enjoy radio 51 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 2: from the standpoint that you get to really really speak 52 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: your mind and speak excessively on things, and you don't 53 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: feel as limited. But I love having an impact and 54 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: I don't think anything is more powerful than the visual. 55 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 2: And I grew up idolizing Howard Cosell and Bryant Gumble 56 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: and then later on the late great Ed Bradley for 57 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: sixty minutes when I thought about, you know, television, those 58 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: are the guys I mean, of course, I learned to 59 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: love and appreciate and revere the Stuart Scott's and the 60 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: John Saunders of the world God rested soul as my 61 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: former colleagues, and the Chris Berman's of the world and others. 62 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 2: But Howard Cosell and Brian Dumble definitely stand above the crowd. 63 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: All right. So you mentioned I agree with you one 64 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: hundred percent. Writing is the hardest. If someone out there, 65 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: let's just start right off the top. If someone out 66 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: there is watching and they say, I love what steven 67 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: A does for a living, I want to be the 68 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: next stephen A Smith. Would you encourage them to begin 69 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: with writing, or due to the decline of newspapers and 70 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: the challenge frankly of jobs, would you suggest some other direction? 71 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: How How would you suggest twenty year old person listening 72 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: to us right now becomes the next steven A. 73 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: I would say, definitely have versatility because you want to 74 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: do the writing, because it requires research. You can't possibly 75 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: you can talk. You can talk out your behind anytime 76 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: you want to for a couple of minutes, but you 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: can't write that way. You got to have something to say. 78 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: You have to have something that you're bringing to the table. 79 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: And I think that that has a lot to do 80 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: with it. And so writing definitely encourages research. It encourages 81 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: content and substance, and I think that's where it all starts, Clay, 82 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: And I'm sure you cappreciate that obviously, because of the 83 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 2: industry itself, particularly with newspapers, and how it's been basically 84 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: disintegrating before our very eyes. That's not necessarily where the 85 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: money is, but in terms of the skill set that 86 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: you're able to ultimately accomplish and that you can parlay 87 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: into greater things, even in different genres like television, radio. 88 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: Et cetera, et cetera. 89 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: I would definitely encourage people to start with writing because 90 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: of that, because it's going to encourage you to be 91 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: about substance more than sizzle. 92 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: And I think that's where it starts. 93 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: When did you first write something that someone reacted to 94 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: in a favorable way? Do you remember? Was it in 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: high school? Was it in middle school? Maybe it was 96 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: your mom? Do you remember getting encouraged from a writing perspective? 97 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: It was two times in my life. 98 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: One was when I was a college student at an 99 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: HBCU Wister Salem State University of North Carolina, where my 100 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: critical and persuasive writing looked at my essay and said 101 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: I was a born sports writer. He asked me the 102 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: right he asked the class of right essays, and I 103 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: turned in an essay and he said, you're a born 104 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: on sports writer. 105 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 3: Let me take you out to lunch and really talk 106 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: to you about this. 107 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 2: And I thought we were gonna go down the block, 108 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: down the road in Winston, Salem some one of my 109 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: favorite soul food spot called K and W where you 110 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: could get a full flow meal chicken and macaroni and 111 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: veggies and all this stuff at eight dollars. You know, 112 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: I was looking forward to that, so I thought that's 113 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: where he was gonna take me, and lo and behold. 114 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: He drove me straight to the Winster Salem Journal Daily newspaper, 115 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: and I walked upstairs and he took me and lo 116 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: and behold who was waiting there for me? The sports 117 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: edited the Winster Salem Journal, who spoke to me for 118 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: five minutes and then hired me on the spot as 119 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: a clerk. And that's how my career got started. So 120 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: that was definitely a very very impactful. That's moment number one. 121 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: And moment number two was when I was a high 122 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 2: school sports reporter for the New York Daily News in 123 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three and I wrote a two page pull 124 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: out end zone piece on this kid named Carlton Hans 125 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: who was a former star high school athlete but had 126 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: gotten gunned down in broad daylight the Bronx at two 127 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 2: thirty in the afternoon. And to get that story, I 128 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: had to, you know, work the streets work, the angles, 129 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: the street agents and what have you. I had to 130 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: talk to drug dealers and folks like that that was 131 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: connected to that, to the street life. Obviously, ultimately had 132 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: to make connections with his family and stuff like that, 133 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: where I ultimately got an exclusive interview with his mother, 134 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: his brothers, his family, to the point where she literally 135 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: gave me pictures of him sitting laying in his casket 136 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: for crying out loud. 137 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 3: Those are the kind of things that's happened. 138 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: And that was clearly the most impactful story because when 139 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: I did that, and then I showed up to the NABJ, 140 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: the National Association of Black Journalism conference, and I showed 141 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 2: them that end Zone piece that I had done for 142 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: the New York Daily News as a high school sports reporter. 143 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: That's when both the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily 144 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: News and the Washington Post and a bevy of other 145 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: papers were interested in hiring me before I ended up 146 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: landing at the Philadelphia Inquirer a couple of months later 147 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: in October of nineteen ninety four. 148 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: All Right, I'm going to come back to that because 149 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by how you get to where you are. 150 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: But what I read is and I try to do 151 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of research. You were a basketball player 152 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: at Winston Salem State. I would be curious what would 153 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: stephen A. The prognosticator say about Steven A the basketball player? 154 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: How would you assess your game back in those. 155 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: Days that I was allergic to defense. I had no 156 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: desire to play defense whatsoever. I could really really shoot 157 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: the basketball, but I was really lighting the behind. I 158 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: was about five to nine, about one hundred and twenty 159 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: five hundred and thirty pounds, soaking wet, and I was 160 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: basically a street ball. I could handle, I could shoot, 161 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: I could play, and I was certainly good enough to 162 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: get a college basketball scholarship. But I was incredibly weak 163 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: because I was so skinny. And when you're growing up 164 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: in the hood and you're playing on the street, you're 165 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: playing on concrete a lot, and by virtue of playing 166 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: on that concrete, what happens is your knees ultimately get 167 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: a bit damage. 168 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: You knees your hips and stuff like that. 169 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: In my case, chronic tendonitist ultimately transit, you know, ultimately 170 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: evolved into a cracked patella, and that really really compromised 171 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: my aspirations as a basketball player. But even if I 172 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: were one hundred percent healthy, I think I would have 173 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: been a pretty damn good Division. 174 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: Two basketball player. 175 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: But I was too light in the behind and not 176 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: gifted enough to be an elite Division IE player, let 177 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: alone an NBA player. 178 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: So that's how we're classify it. 179 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: Okay, it's interesting when did you Everybody has a dream. 180 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: Every single person is, certainly who likes sports thinks, oh, 181 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to be a pro athlete someday, And maybe 182 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: it happens when you're sixteen, maybe it happens when you're twelve. 183 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: At some point, the cold hard hand of reality slaps 184 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: you in the face. For most people, right, was there 185 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: a moment in time. I'm sure you dreamed of playing 186 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: in the NBA growing up. Was there a moment in 187 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: time where you went up against somebody, or you played 188 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: in a game, or you had a moment of recognition 189 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: where you said, no, what, I don't know this is 190 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: happening for me, Maybe I need to have a plan. B. 191 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: It wasn't because of the competition, because that's the beauty, 192 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: that's the secret source in the sport of basketball. Win 193 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: and you can shoot the basketball when you are. You 194 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: know you're a marksman. You believe you can beat anybody. 195 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: You never believe you're inferior to anybody because everybody can't shoot. 196 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: You got guys that can jump out the gym, they 197 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: can dunk on you, they could do all the stuff. 198 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: But if they can't shoot, you ain't worried about them. 199 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: If you can shoot, everybody's got to be worried about you. 200 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: That's why Steph Curry is so phenomenal. He's the greatest 201 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: shooter of God ever created. We all know this watching 202 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: him play basketball. And no matter what greatness you see 203 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: from other people, to Michael Jordan's of the world, to 204 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: the Kobe's and the Lebrons and everybody else, you can't 205 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: even debate the fact that any of those players would 206 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 2: wish they could shoot the way that kid can shoot. 207 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: And so that's something that's special and so for me personally. 208 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: Growing up, there was a guy by the name of 209 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: Lloyd sweet p Daniels who was considered like the second 210 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: coming to Magic Johnson. He was six feet eight with 211 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: a handle, but he had a lot of issues in 212 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: school and all of this other stuff, but he was 213 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: a phenomenal player and he and I won a couple 214 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: of summer league tournaments together. You know, he was the 215 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: star by leaps bounds, but I would still be in 216 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: the summer league play averaging twenty to twenty five a game. 217 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: And then I turned around and go and play at 218 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: Winston Salem State and looked like I couldn't score. 219 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 3: Three points, let alone five. 220 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 2: Why because I was scared the coach was gonna take 221 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: me out, Whereas in summer league I didn't have to 222 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: worry about that. So it just shows the mental fortitude 223 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 2: or the lack thereof, that you could have and how 224 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: that could derail you. And then in college at Winston 225 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: Salem State my first year, in my first two months there, 226 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: I cracked my kneecap in half. 227 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: I cracked that petella. 228 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: That's when I knew it was over because when they 229 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: told me I had to have surgery, And then when 230 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 2: they told me I had to go home to rehab 231 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: because it was a Division two program that facilities were 232 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: not D one quality in terms of that financial backing 233 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: and things of that nature. And as a result, my 234 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: mother's insurance had to pick up the tab for my rehabilitation. 235 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: When I had to go home and go through that 236 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: level of rehab. My mother looked me in the face 237 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: and said, well, there goes that dream. It's not gonna happen. 238 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 2: So what you're gonna do now? And I'll never forget 239 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: what I said to her. I looked at her. I 240 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: wasn't the pressed about it. I wasn't down about it. 241 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 2: I looked at her and I said, I'm going to 242 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: be in television. That's exactly what I said to him. 243 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to be in television. And I had no 244 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: idea how I was going to get there, but I 245 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: said that's what I'm going to do. And then a 246 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: few hours later, laying down thinking about it, my sister 247 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: reminded me that I could write, and then I focused 248 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: on my journalism and I went from there. 249 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: So is this true that you wrote a column for 250 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: your student newspaper arguing that the head coach of the 251 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: basketball team should retire because of health issues. What was 252 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: the reaction when you wrote that piece? 253 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: Well, I wrote it while I was on the basketball team, 254 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: that is true. I looked him in the face and 255 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: told him I was going to write that, which was true. 256 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: He cussed me out a little bit and told me 257 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: to get the f out of his office, go ahead 258 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: and do what I want to do. And then I 259 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: went and did it, and then assistant coaches were really 260 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,239 Speaker 2: ticked off at me. The chancellor the school wanted me expelled, 261 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: and coach Gaines stood up for me. He said, everybody 262 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: stand down. He wants to be a journalist. He came 263 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: to me, he looked at me in my face. He 264 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: told me how he felt. He told me why, and 265 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: he told me exactly what he was going to do 266 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 2: before he did it. That's what comes along with his profession. 267 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: Leave him alone, and that's what saved me from being expelled. 268 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: What I don't know how old coaches Gains is now? 269 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: Did you he passed away in two thousand and five. 270 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: I think he was like eighty eighty one years of age. 271 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: Did he? 272 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,479 Speaker 1: So he saw you have some success in the profession. 273 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: Then did you guys have any relationship after you left? 274 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: Oh? 275 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, school. He was like a father to me. He 276 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 3: was he was always. He just looked at me. 277 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 2: And I remember one time we went in practice and 278 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: you know, the players were talking to me because I 279 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: wasn't dead that particular day. I was back home in 280 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: New York and the player said that he was talking 281 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: about me and brought me up and then he said, 282 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: goddamn it, that boy wants to be somebody. 283 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: And that's what he would say about me. 284 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: He ain't out he ain't out here messing around. He's 285 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 2: on a mission. He's trying to make something happen. And 286 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 2: he usually when I would speak to him, he will 287 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: remind me, well, you, dann Well, better be somebody, because 288 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: the damn traint gonna be a basketball player, So you 289 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 2: better be something, and you better be something that's gonna 290 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: ultimately make a contribution to HBCUs. And that's something that 291 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: I swore to him that I would fulfill until my 292 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: dying day. 293 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: What do you do now for kids at HBCUs. 294 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: Well, I've generated I'm the ambassador for. 295 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 3: HBCU Week, which. 296 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: Was an organization that originated out of Delaware and the 297 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: University of Delaware violated by the name of Ashley Christopher 298 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: and she's phenomenal with what she does, and Mayor Perscicki 299 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 2: there in town has been helpful a lot in terms 300 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: of jump starting HBCU Week. They came to me a 301 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: week a few years ago in twenty nineteen, if I 302 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: remember correctly, asked me to be the ambassador for HBCU Week, 303 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: and since then, I've partnered with them and I've helped 304 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 2: generate in excess of seventy million dollars in scotlar Ship's 305 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: actually sixty five million in scholarship. I'm sorry for over 306 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 2: twelve thousand students in county. 307 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: That's incredible that I didn't know that story. How many 308 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: kids out there do you think have the ability to 309 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: be the next stephen A that just don't get the 310 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: opportunity to do it. 311 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: Well. 312 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: I'm never gonna sit up there and say that there 313 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: aren't an abundance of people that can't be me. They 314 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: just need to understand what being me entails. That means 315 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: putting your head down and willing to put into work. 316 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: That means willing to make personal sacrifices for a grade 317 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: of goal. Understanding that everything that glitters isn't gold. It's 318 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: about the work. Don't look at the twenty minutes or 319 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: the two hours or whatever it is that I'm on television. 320 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: Think about the work that I've had to put in. 321 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: Think about the sacrifices. I remember when a kid came 322 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: up to me years ago and he said, mister Smith, 323 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: I'm an Admira I'm a fan and I just want 324 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: to talk to you. And I said, what's up. He said, 325 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: I got this job offer in Seattle. I said, so, 326 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: what's the problem. And he said, well, I'm in love, 327 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, I don't want to leave, Carl. 328 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: My lady's not coming to Seattle with me, but I 329 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: don't want to leave. And I said, I can't make 330 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: that decision for you. Here's all I could tell you, love, 331 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: don't pay the bills, I said, And at the end 332 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: of the day, if you don't have anything going for you, 333 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: you got to take care of yourself. Because I assure you, 334 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: if you can't take care of yourself, she's not gonna 335 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: want to have to take care of you, which means 336 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: she ain't gonna be there anyway. So I strongly suggest 337 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: that you think about this decision long and hard. And 338 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: I use that as an example, just a highlight for folks. 339 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: It's about the work. You know, when you Stephen A. Smith, 340 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: it's everybody from you know, people in the industry in 341 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: the world of sports, to somebody like yourself, Klay Travis, 342 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: and the list goes on and on. Well, guess what, 343 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: there's a standard that's been a set there's a standard 344 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: that's been established, there's a standard that has been exceeded. 345 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: Are you measuring up to that? Are you bringing that 346 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: to the table, and are you committed to doing so, 347 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: to making sure that you have that kind of impact 348 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: where you resonate or you just looking for somebody to 349 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: hand you opportunities and hand you rewards that you haven't earned. 350 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: I've never been about that. 351 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: I've always been about going after mind and get mine 352 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: and being willing to put into work and make the 353 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: necessary sacrifices. So what I preach to a lot of 354 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: youngsters out there, if you're willing to do that, you're 355 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: damn right you can be me. And I said this 356 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: years ago. I said, the jay Z's, the Kobe Bryant's 357 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: got arrest, the Souldier Shaquille o'neils, Lebron James and others. 358 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: You can't be them. They're not the American dream, they're 359 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: the American fantasy come reality, I said, because it's an aberration, 360 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: that's a once in a billion shot. 361 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: I said, But you can be Stephen A. Smith. 362 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: You can get left back in the fourth grade because 363 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: you had a first very ready reading level. You can 364 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: have the selexy and work your tail off and overcome that. 365 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: You can put your head down and work hard and 366 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: be committed to being the best that you possibly can be, 367 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: and you can end up being successful. Everybody can't be them, 368 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: but there's millions of people that can be me. 369 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 3: I firmly believe that, and I stand by that. 370 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: You said you started at Winston Salem Journal, that professor 371 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: takes you there and says you're going to be a 372 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: sports writer. What was your salary for the first job 373 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: you ever got? 374 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 3: I made four hundred dollars a week. 375 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: Four hundred dollars a week, which was like four hundred thousand. 376 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 2: You're a college student, like four hundred thousands. It's like 377 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 2: it's like four it's like four hundred thousand dollars. Let 378 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: me tell you something right now. I mean, you're talking 379 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: to a dude that when I first started this business, 380 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: I was living off for tuna fishing kool aid, making 381 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: fifteen thousand dollars fifteen thousand, three hundred dollars a year. 382 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 3: So for me to give four hundred. 383 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: Dollars a week as a college student at that time 384 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 2: while working for the local paper, that was great. But 385 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: then what made it even better was the month was 386 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: the assignment. I'm going to be a clerk. I'm sitting 387 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 2: in there. I'm doing agate material and school, you know, 388 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 2: all of this other stuff. And they set me out 389 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: to do a feature on wake Forest soccer, which was 390 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: ranked number three in the nation. And I went to 391 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: wake Forest one down. Like I said to the sports 392 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: out of the Deterbee overless, I don't know anything about soccer. 393 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: And only soccer match I've ever watched was Peyle in 394 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. I don't know any thing about this, he said, 395 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: tell me how. That's my problem. Figure it out. And 396 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: so I went over there to wait for as university 397 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: and the coach's name was Walt Chisowitch. I'll never forget 398 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 2: him as long as I live. He's passed away now, 399 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: God rest his wonderful soul. And I walked up to him, 400 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: this little black kid from Hollis Queens, New York City. 401 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: And I walked up to. 402 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,239 Speaker 2: This guy and I said, sir, I'm from the I'm 403 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: Steven Aisman from the Wizards Salem General. I'm an aspiring 404 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 2: sports writer. I have never covered soccer in my life, 405 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 2: but they've sent me on this assignment. And if I 406 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: don't do it right, my chances of becoming a sports 407 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: writer ain't gonna look too good. Could you help me? 408 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: And he looked at me and he said, how much 409 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 2: time do you have? I said till this Saturday. And 410 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: he caught the entire team over. He had just met 411 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 2: me like three minutes ago. He caught the entire team 412 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: over and he said to the team, you are to 413 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 2: give him complete access to all of you for the 414 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: remainder of this week. You understand me. And they all 415 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 2: looked and they nodded, yes, sir, he says, Stephen, you 416 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: will stand by me. And the coach, along with the players, 417 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 2: spent that entire week teaching me the game of soccer. 418 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: I ended up writing a good piece. I went back 419 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 2: wrote it two page pull out piece again before that 420 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: big piece. 421 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 3: For the New York Daily News. 422 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 2: And I wrote that piece and the next day the 423 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: editor sports editor, Terry Obley, called me into the Winston 424 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: Salem Jones. He said, congratulations, you're the new beat writer 425 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: for wake Forest Soccer. And that is how my career 426 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: started while I was a student at Winster Salem State. 427 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: That is an amazing story. Then you go to the 428 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: Greensboro News if I got this right. The New York 429 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: Daily News, Philly Inquirer. You said four hundred dollars a 430 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: week felt like a ton. But I always like to 431 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: start because I think it's important. And I don't know 432 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: if you find this to be the case too. In 433 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: this Instagram era, everybody thinks that they should have everything 434 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: almost instantaneously, this Mike Wave generation. You don't get paid 435 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: very much in media, no matter where you start. It's 436 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: really low. Can you run us through your career, your 437 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: salaries at those newspapers and how many hours you were 438 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: working and what was required of you to be able 439 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: to make it? Probably I bet to an area where 440 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: you could even afford rent in a place you'd want 441 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: to live, right, Because I think this is super important 442 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: for anybody going into media. 443 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: I started off at the Greensboro News and Record after 444 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: graduating and doing my internships at the Winsors Salem Journal. 445 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: Because that job that was paying me four hundred dollars 446 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 2: a week clay that ultimately became I was able to 447 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: parlay that into an internship so I would get the 448 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: credit hours necessary in order to graduate. And I also 449 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 2: did an internship at the Atlanta Journal Constitution for six 450 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 2: months thereafter, the Greensboro News and Record came hiring me 451 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: as a sports clerk for its editorial assistant to be 452 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: exact for its high Point Bureau, which was down the 453 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: block from Archdale, North Carolina, where I was living in 454 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: an apartment for three hundred dollars a month. And so 455 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 2: I went there and I was doing calendar items, school 456 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 2: lunch menus, agate stuff and all of this right, And 457 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 2: in order for me to write articles for the Greensboro 458 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: News and Record newspaper, I had to do it in 459 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: my off time. So I would work from eight thirty 460 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: to six o'clock and then I would travel to the 461 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: schools where they were playing football because football high school 462 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 2: football is big, and that Piedmont tried area, Greensboro, Burlington, 463 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 2: he went to see them all of these places. And 464 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: I would work from during football season from like seven 465 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 2: pm until close to midnight, and during the basketball season 466 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: sometimes as well. And I didn't get paid for it. 467 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 2: The only thing they were paid for was my gas. 468 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: That was it gas and everything else was on me. 469 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: And so I was making fifteen thousand, three hundred dollars 470 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: a month and I was living off a tuna, fish 471 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: and kool aid. Prior to that, before I got that job, 472 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: I did a summer job where I would work at 473 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 2: the Salvation Army Boys and Girls Club during the day 474 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: from seven thirty to four counseling kids. I was counselor 475 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 2: for kids underage kids, and then from four thirty to 476 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 2: nine thirty, I would load and unload eighteen wheel of 477 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: trucks for roadway you know. So that was like the 478 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: rival for ups or whatever it was. So all of 479 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: that led up to it. And then after I went 480 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: there from Greensboro, I ultimately transitioned to the New York 481 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: Daily News. And this is where it was a game 482 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: changing for me. Yeah, high school sports department was the 483 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 2: funk for a few months. 484 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 3: They had a strike. 485 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: They just sbanded the department in like April of that 486 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: year whatever, and then came back in August of nineteen 487 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: ninety three. Well, they didn't want to lose me because 488 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 2: I was freelancing for them for a few months. And 489 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: when I was freelancing for them, I was getting like 490 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: a thousand dollars per article. Per freelance article, my attitude was, 491 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: oh my goodness, I do ten to fifteen of these, 492 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: I'll make just as much as I was making in Greensborough. 493 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: So I was excited about that. And then I got 494 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 3: an offer from the met Pro. 495 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: Internship program, which is a collaboration of New York News 496 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: Day in LA Times at the time, where they would 497 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: take candidates and they would like, you know, get like 498 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 2: two three thousand applicants and take the final twenty four. 499 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: And I was one of those final twenty four. Well, 500 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: when they knew I was about to go to that program, 501 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: the New York Daily News turned around and offered me 502 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 2: a job as a high school sports reporter. And they 503 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: offered me fifty three thousand, five hundred dollars. Remember I 504 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: was just making fifteen, so this is like heavy, you know, 505 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: It's like, oh my goodness. Not only is the money, 506 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: but I'm back in my hometown, New York instead of 507 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 2: being a native New York stuck in Archdale, North Carolina. 508 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: So it was like the heavens opened up. So I 509 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 3: was happy about that. 510 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: Then I did that big two page end zone piece 511 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: that I told you about earlier, and then the newspapers 512 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: came calling, and the Philadelphia Inquirer came calling for me. 513 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: When they came calling for me, they gave me sixty 514 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 2: thousand a year, which ultimately went to seventy five, which 515 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: ultimately went to one hundred and twenty five, which ultimately 516 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: went to two hundred and then two hundred and twenty 517 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 2: five before ESPN came call. 518 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: All right, So, at what point along that pathway did 519 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: you think, Okay, I finally made it. Was there a 520 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: dollar figure in your mind? I always like to ask 521 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: this because I grew up public school kid. I always 522 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: looked at the price of everything on the menu. And 523 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: I only think in like the last seven or eight 524 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: years where I've been like, I can go into a 525 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: restaurant and mind you, I'm not going into you know, 526 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: the highest in restaurant on the planet, but where I 527 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: can go in and I see something on a menu 528 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll order whatever I want. Right. Was 529 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,959 Speaker 1: there a moment in time where you felt like, okay, 530 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: you started at four hundred dollars a week fifteen to 531 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: three at the Greensboro News. Was there a moment along 532 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: that pathway or you thought, hey, I've made it. Now 533 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: I've been I'm in a success level where I feel 534 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: like I can live in a way that maybe maybe 535 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: I didn't anticipate growing up. 536 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: The brief moment was when I got the salary from 537 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: the New York Daily News, and then I went looking. 538 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 2: I thought I made it at that moment of fifty 539 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 2: three thousand, and then I went looking for my own apartment. 540 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: I needed my mama to co sign, and so when 541 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: my mama needed to co sign for me, and I told, 542 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: and they asked me my salary, and I gave them 543 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: my salary. That was when I found out my mother 544 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: had never made fifty three thousand. 545 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 3: Dollars a year in her life as a registered nurse. 546 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 2: And so when I looked at it from that perspective, 547 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: I thought for a second that I made it until 548 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: my first monthly bill came, and when I saw how 549 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: much was being taken away in Texas, combined with what 550 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: I had to pay New York rent, I realized ain't 551 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: no such thing as making. 552 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 3: I ain't making yet. 553 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 2: I didn't make it yet, And that the thing about 554 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: it is that it's sort of like hurt me from 555 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: the standpoint that throughout my life. You know, this is 556 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 2: why even though I'm a registered independent, so many people 557 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: think I'm a staunch Republican, because ever since then, I 558 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: paid attention to my money it's like this, this, this, 559 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: this is a lot of this state income tax. He 560 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: in New York, in California. This for the birds. I 561 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: can't deal with it. 562 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 3: All of a sudden. 563 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: You go to Tennessee, you go to Delaware, you go 564 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: to Nevada, you go, I mean, Texas, Florida. 565 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: I know the states that there's no state income tax. 566 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: I got zero. I got zero state income income tax. 567 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: Where I'm talking to you from Tennessee right now. A 568 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: lot of people in Florida. Florida is a pretty good place. 569 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: Zero state income tax. Texas ain't a big deal. Real 570 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: state income tax. It's a big deal of me. 571 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: I'm not extreme left, but I'm relatively socially moderate to liberal. 572 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: But I am very conservative monetarily fiscally. I mean, you 573 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: want to turn me off to talk to me about that. 574 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: I don't get You know, they can bring up a 575 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: whole but said they bring up race, they bring up. 576 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 3: This man, Please with my money. You know what I'm saying. 577 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: This is just problems everywhere, But Devin, the biggest problem 578 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: is when you're earning this money and you don't see 579 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 2: it because the state income tax and federal income tax 580 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: and fighter and of the means everywhere your turn they're 581 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 2: taking your damn money. That's when I lose it. I'm 582 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: like this, man, I can't deal with this much longer. 583 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 2: And so I've always been like that, and then you know, 584 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: it's been problematic because during my negotiations, whether it's me 585 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: directly in the newspaper industry or through an agent and 586 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 2: a representative and television or whatever, I'm very big on 587 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 2: excuse me, y'all got me here in the state of 588 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: New York. You know, why don't y'all have me based 589 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 2: out of Connecticut. I mean, the ESPN is based out 590 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: of Connecticut. How come I'm not hearing that? Because I mean, 591 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 2: they taking my money here in New York. They taking 592 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: my money here in California. 593 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 3: This is ridiculous. You know. 594 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 2: Can we talk about loanout status? Can we talk about 595 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: a ten ninety nine instead of a W two? You know, 596 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 2: I'm not getting what I want, But I'm fighting and 597 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 2: fighting and fighting throughout the years because I remembered years 598 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: ago when I made that fifty three five and they 599 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: would take in most of my money and all of 600 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 2: them damn taxes in New York. 601 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 3: It was driving me. 602 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: Crazy, I tell you, The first time I ever went 603 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: out to Fox Sports in twenty thirteen when they launched 604 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: FS one was to do their college football show. I 605 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: got my paycheck and I saw what they took to 606 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: appear in Los Angeles because I would get on a 607 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: plane fly out there, and I would be like, are 608 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: you kidding me? Like I legitimately could not believe because 609 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: I got a zero state income tax here fifteen sixteen 610 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: percent coming out just for me getting on an airplane 611 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: and traveling out there, And that's why we started doing 612 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: the sports gambling show. I did it from here, and 613 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: I was like, you'll put a camera in my house, 614 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: like I'll come out to LA occasionally, but I don't 615 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: want to get murdered on the tax rate, like as happened. 616 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 3: All right, So so right, what. 617 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: Did that feel like? You were similar to me the 618 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: first So when I finished practicing law, first job I 619 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: got after practicing law is actually, I think a lot 620 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: of your family is from the US Virgin Island, So 621 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: I practiced in the US Virgin Islands. My very first 622 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: paycheck as a lawyer, when I was in the summer 623 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: doing my internship, was more than my dad or mom 624 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: ever made in their entire career. So on some level, 625 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: when you get that and you recognize how difficult it 626 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: is for you to live as a single guy in 627 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: the New York City area, you're a you got five 628 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. If I, if I did the research correctly, 629 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: did you look at your mom and be like, even 630 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: more respect than you had beforehand that she raised an 631 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: entire family off of less money than you were making 632 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: and struggling to live on your. 633 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: Own, Absolutely, no question about it, And you just you 634 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: just had a great, great appreciation for it. And you know, 635 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: we spent it was minimal, but we spent a short 636 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 2: time on welfare. Obviously, we struggled tremendously. We knew how 637 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 2: to do without, we knew how to survive, but we 638 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: certainly knew that we were poor. It wasn't one of 639 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: the things where people say, oh, you know, you had 640 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: so much love in the house and you don't know 641 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: that you're poor. 642 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: Bs. No, we knew we were poor, no question about it. 643 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: That we were deprived of a lot of things because 644 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: of our circumstances. But your respect and admiration for her 645 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 2: just elevated amongst all of us. Because in order to 646 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: be able to take care of us. There had to 647 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: be such an incomparable level of selflessness where it was 648 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: about us and it wasn't about her. You know, She's 649 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: the reason that I always came up with a slogan 650 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: when it came to me and my two daughters, and 651 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 2: that is, if they're hungry, it's because I'm starving. You know, 652 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 2: I'm not comfortable unless they're comfortable. I don't eat unless 653 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: I know they're eating. I'm not living it comfortably unless 654 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: I know they're okay. 655 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 3: They are first. 656 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: And so I got that from mom because Mom was 657 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 2: that way, and she mandated that her children be that 658 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 2: way as well. And certainly my four oldest sisters are 659 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 2: definitely that way. And it's because of her. 660 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: And I think you just I read that you just 661 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: lost your mom and that that was one of the 662 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: most difficult twenty seventeen, and I read that for a 663 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: couple of years, it was absolutely devastating for you. I 664 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: know we're coming up on the holiday season, but are 665 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: the holidays more difficult for you without her? What would 666 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: you say to everybody out there? I mean, and there's 667 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: people dealing with very many losses out there. Always got 668 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: to keep that in your mind. Did it change the 669 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: way you worked? Did it change the way that you 670 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: did your jobs and also interacted with people on a 671 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: daily basis that loss. 672 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: I will tell you that the only reason I celebrate 673 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 2: the holidays is because of my daughters and my family, 674 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: the rest of my family, my sisters. 675 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 3: I have no desire to celebrate the holidays. 676 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: The holidays aren't incredibly miserable time for me for two reasons. 677 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 2: Number one, because she's gone, and number two, you're constantly 678 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: seeing those who have their loved ones talking about their 679 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 2: loved ones and how happy they are and whatever. One 680 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: of the most difficult things of all the things that 681 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 2: I've done in my career, I will tell you that 682 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 2: the most difficult thing that I do on ESPN is 683 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: when I have to work on Mother's Day it is, 684 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: or Mother's Day week. It is the most miserable, miserable time. 685 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 2: All the stuff about cancer research and stuff like that, 686 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: that definitely is second on the list because that's where 687 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: she passed away from. So it's a constant, perpetual reminder, 688 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: and it just takes me to a very very dark 689 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: place where I just don't want to be around anybody. 690 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to be alone. It's not as bad 691 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: as it was from twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen. To 692 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 2: be honest with you, therapy helped with that. I know 693 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: a lot of us, particularly as black men, don't. That's 694 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 2: like to admit that, but it's true. I was in 695 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: therapy for a while. I have to lose with my 696 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: mother because it is the worst feeling that I've ever 697 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: had in my life. I've never known that level of misery. 698 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: I've never known that level of emotional non control. For 699 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: lack of better words, there, I just I would sit 700 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: on the air Travis at times, and I just have 701 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 2: to openly confess this. There were times and it wouldn't last. 702 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: It wouldn't last but a few seconds or whatever. But 703 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 2: there's literally times where I'm sitting across from someone and 704 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: I didn't hear them, and I didn't see them. It 705 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 2: was dark and all I saw was my mom's casket 706 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: being lowered into the ground, and it was just the 707 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 2: worst feeling in the world. And that's when I knew 708 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 2: that I had to go to therapy, because it was like, 709 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: you know, I'm saying things, I'm a bit sharp with 710 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: my tongue. I'm not having the level of compassion that 711 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: I know that I feel in my heart. There's so 712 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: many different things that come with it. I know I'm 713 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: better than that, but I just I didn't have control 714 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: because I was emotionally in turmoil, and I just you know, 715 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: and I think, to be honest with you, it was 716 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: also the biggest time where I regret it not ever 717 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 2: being married, because you see, when you're married, you know, 718 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: that's basically handing Mama, handing the baton to that lady 719 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 2: that you found and it's forever. And so what happens 720 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: is is that as a man, when you have as 721 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 2: close of a relationship with your mother as I have, 722 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 2: the belief is, you know what, here's this person that 723 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: loves me conditionally, unconditionally, and you know it's it's a 724 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: love that I can depend upon and rely upon for 725 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: the rest of my life, and you never ever think 726 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: about what if it's not there anymore. And what happened 727 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: is is that when she passed away, and that the 728 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: day of her funeral arrived and it was over and 729 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 2: we went to the cemetery, it was the first time 730 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 2: in my life that I literally said, oh my god, 731 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 2: I don't have a woman that I know for beyond 732 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: the shadow of a doubt loves me unconditionally anymore. And 733 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: it was a misery that just overwhelmed me. And I 734 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: truly believe that my daughter's existence is what saved me, 735 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: because I knew that I had to be here for them. 736 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 2: But it was just a miserable abyss that I was 737 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 2: sitting in for a long long time. And I had 738 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 2: to go on television, national television every day and hide 739 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: it because I had a job to do. I had 740 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 2: to get it done, and I couldn't bring my misery 741 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 2: to the audience. But sometimes I was more effective than 742 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: others in that way. 743 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: Did it being sports make it somewhat tougher? And I 744 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: asked that because, and I'm sure you are aware, and 745 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's been times in your life. A lot 746 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: of people look to sports to take them away from 747 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: the serious things in their life. Right, You come home 748 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you pop a beer, 749 00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: you put your feet up, and you watch to see 750 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: what going to happen in whatever game is going on. 751 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: But when you're working in sports, it's almost like you 752 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: don't have and it's going to sound a little bit strange, 753 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily have that same escape because it 754 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: is a job. Did that sometimes conflict in that? I 755 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: imagine for you, sports has been something that you've enjoyed, 756 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: like most of the people who are watching or listening 757 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: to this right now, for much of your life, and 758 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: so when your job is connected, you can't even really 759 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: escape it. Does that make sense? 760 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 2: And so, yeah, how that impacted your grief, That's not 761 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: how I felt for the most part. I only felt 762 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 2: that day. I only felt that way when I returned 763 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 2: to the NBA Finals in Cleveland. I believe it was 764 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: a game I can't remember it was game three or four, 765 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 2: but I came there in Cleveland when they were playing 766 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: Golden State. 767 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 3: And that was the day after I buried. 768 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: We buried my mother because my sisters, after, you know, 769 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 2: to repass and everything transpired, they said, okay, so when 770 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 2: you're going back to work, kind of like, what do 771 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 2: you mean going back to work? And they're like, when 772 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: you talk about the NBA Finals going on, what will 773 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: mommy say? And we all knew what she would say, 774 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: finish the job. My mother was very very big on 775 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: that West Indian woman born and raised the same time 776 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 2: as virgin Onlie. She was about that work Clay, get 777 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 2: the work done first. My mother, I could hear her 778 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: in my void in my head that day. Get the 779 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 2: job done, you got all some of the mourn me. Literally, 780 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 2: I could hear her saying that, because that's exactly something 781 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 2: that she would have said. 782 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 3: And so my sister said, it's time to get back 783 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 3: to work. 784 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 2: And then I watched it the day of that she 785 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 2: had passed a when it was Game one and we 786 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 2: were supposed to be doing the show first take from 787 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 2: Lake Chalet, Lake Chalette, I think it's Chalai. I think 788 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: that's how it's pronounced in Oakland, California. And they found 789 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 2: out that I wasn't gonna be there because my mom 790 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: passed away, and damn near seventy five percent of the 791 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 2: audience disappeared, and I just said, my sister's are right. 792 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: I got a job to finish. And we were doing 793 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 2: a special afternoon special for the first take in Cleveland 794 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 2: that afternoon, and I showed up, and I showed up 795 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 2: that afternoon a week later and was ready to go, 796 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 2: and it was just I just had to do it 797 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 2: because I knew that's what she would have mandated, and 798 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 2: I did exactly what she would have wanted. 799 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 3: Me to do. I went there, I did my job, and. 800 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 2: Then I spent the rest of the summer and practically 801 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 2: the next two years really really mourning her. But the 802 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: only day that was where it was hard on the 803 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 2: job on the court was when I went to the 804 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: court for the first time. H Jesse Jackson showed up 805 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: one minute to give me a hug, and doctor Michael 806 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 2: Eric Dyson showed up another time. Sage Steele, who used 807 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 2: to work for ESPN. Christopher Broussard was there, along with 808 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 2: A Paul Pierce and Chauncey Billups came in to give 809 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: me a hug. And then standing outside the door was 810 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 2: Kevin Durant's mom and she just gave me a big 811 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: hug and said, we love you with you know, the 812 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 2: NBA moms are here for you. Just wanted you to 813 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: know that. So that meant the world to me because 814 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 2: I almost broke down crying on a court because I 815 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 2: was still, you know, really going through it from having 816 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 2: lost my mom. 817 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that's why you haven't gotten married, because 818 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: your mom occupies such an incredible part of your life 819 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: that you haven't found someone who can match up with 820 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: her in your mind? 821 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 3: No, I don't think that's it. 822 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 2: I think that well, first of all, let me say 823 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,720 Speaker 2: this what I'm about to say. I'm not casting blame 824 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: because ultimately it's my responsibility. I'm a father. I'm a 825 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 2: father out of wedlock. That is the one thing that 826 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 2: my mother was not proud of me about. She did 827 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 2: not raise me to have children out of wedlock and stuff. 828 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 2: But I did that and it happened to transpire at 829 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 2: the time that I was, you know, unemployed, for crying 830 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 2: out out on the verge of being unemployed, and I 831 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 2: just did I didn't. I didn't handle my business correctly, 832 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 2: So that's on me. But at the end of the day, 833 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 2: I would tell you in terms of marriage, I was 834 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 2: engaged twice. Mother is a lot to live up to. 835 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 2: But it's not so much that you can say in 836 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 2: around about way Clay is her. But for me, in 837 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 2: this day and age, we see so many women and 838 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 2: a lot of issues pertaining the women coming to the forefront, 839 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 2: and it's emboldened women in a way that has them 840 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: being incredibly independent, strong, yet at the same time highly intolerable. 841 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 2: And they're not wrong for being that way. What I'm 842 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 2: saying is is that my dad, I love him, I 843 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 2: always will. 844 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 3: But he was not a good man. He was not 845 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 3: a good father. 846 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 2: And I saw a person who performed a dereliction of 847 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 2: duty as a father, did not take care of his family, 848 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 2: put entirely too much on the shoulders of my mother. 849 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: And I saw this woman stay with him anyway for 850 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 2: sixty years. Now passed away when I was forty nine, 851 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 2: so obviously I didn't see it the whole time, but 852 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 2: she was with him for sixty years, never left. And 853 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 2: so when I think about my mom and how wonderful 854 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 2: she was, how tolerant she was, how strong she was, 855 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: and how committed she was to her family, it's kind 856 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 2: of hard growing up seeing all of that, and then 857 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 2: dealing with women who make you feel like you're expendable. 858 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 3: We can take you or leave you. 859 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 2: I'm the kind of person you even breathe in my 860 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 2: direction that you could take me or leave me. 861 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 3: I'm leaving. 862 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 2: That's how I am. And that's hard for a lot 863 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 2: of people to tolerate. But that's just the truth about me. 864 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 2: I'm very successful. Any woman that's in my life I 865 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 2: treat like a queen. But the second she gives me 866 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: the impression she even utters words in my direction. It 867 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 2: gives me the impression that she can take me or 868 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 2: leave me, that I'm this expendable part. She can go 869 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 2: find somebody else, because I damn sure will. That's my attitude. 870 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,399 Speaker 2: That's how I am. That's not to say I'm right. 871 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: My pastor has spoken to me about it on many occasions. 872 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 2: It's something that I need to improve upon, no doubt, 873 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 2: because my tolerance level is lower. 874 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,240 Speaker 3: Because my attitude is if that. 875 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 2: Man could have a woman as wonderful as my mother 876 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 2: for all of those years, I should be able to 877 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 2: get at least somebody half that quality. That's just the 878 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 2: way that I've thought, and that's the way. That's the 879 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 2: reason I've been single. My mother has held it against 880 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 2: me until the day I died, But it was true. 881 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 3: It was absolutely true. 882 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: What's more likely the Knicks win a championship or you 883 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: get married? 884 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 3: Me getting married? Okay, that's got to be tough. 885 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: As a lifelong mix fan. 886 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 2: Well you know what I mean. Listen, I'm getting older, 887 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 2: and you know what I don't. I'm not scared to 888 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 2: be alone. I've been blessed to be very successful. I 889 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,280 Speaker 2: definitely have a woman in my life. I'm good life 890 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 2: is cool. But in the same breath, you know, I 891 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 2: kind of love it's kind of nice having somebody. I mean, 892 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 2: I used to like being alone. Now I don't mind 893 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 2: being in the company of somebody else and imagining forever 894 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 2: with somebody else. It actually is kind of cool right now. 895 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: Okay, you u We've talked about a lot of your career. 896 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: I believe you're fifty six years old right now. 897 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 3: Yes, I am. 898 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: I always like to ask, what's something you know now 899 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: that would have saved you an awful lot of trouble 900 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: if you had known it in your twenties or thirties. 901 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 3: Hmm. 902 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 2: I would say that more people want you to succeed 903 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 2: than you realize. What I try to tell folks, particularly 904 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 2: in white America, is that you have to be a 905 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 2: bit forgiving, considering our nation's history, considering the plight of 906 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 2: black people and some of the things that we've been through, 907 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 2: the suspicious nature, the high level of skepticism, the chip 908 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 2: on our shoulders, proverbally speaking from time to time, et cetera, 909 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 2: et cetera. It doesn't come from nowhere, it doesn't come 910 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 2: out of thin air. But in the same breath as 911 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 2: black folks, we have to understand that doesn't make us 912 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 2: right either. You know, there's a reason for thinking the 913 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 2: way that a lot of us think. I can't speak 914 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 2: for everybody, of course not. There's a reason for thinking 915 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 2: the way that we think. But it doesn't always make 916 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 2: us right. You know, growing up in the streets of 917 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 2: Hollis Queens, New York City, I wasn't exposed to a 918 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,879 Speaker 2: bunch of white folks. But here's the beauty of it, 919 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 2: Thank the good Lord, my grandmother was white. So I well, 920 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 2: I didn't walk around thinking that because I'm black and 921 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 2: somebody's white, they're automatically against me. 922 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: Because, by the way, sorry, sorry to cut you off. 923 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: Did how did your your grandmother was white? How did 924 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,240 Speaker 1: that relationship come to pass? 925 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:42,840 Speaker 3: Oh? 926 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 2: She loved her baby boy. She called me her baby boy. 927 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 2: I was Stephen. She was born and raised in Saint 928 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 2: Thomas as well, and she loved the around that I 929 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 2: walked on, and she, you know, my mother. I'll never 930 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 2: say anybody loved me more than my mother, but my grandmother. 931 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 2: No one showed me more love than my grandma. 932 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,799 Speaker 1: But I mean that had to be. But for her 933 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: to be in an interracial relationship, that had to be 934 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: one like the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties. That had 935 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: to be virtually unheard of then, even in the Caribbean, 936 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,760 Speaker 1: that would have been rare at the time. 937 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 3: No question. 938 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 2: And she did it anywhere and took a lot of 939 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 2: vitriol and heat because of it. And she and this 940 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 2: is why a lot of white folks can't argue with 941 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 2: me about this. She's the one that taught me what 942 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 2: racism was. My mother and my father never talked about racism. 943 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 3: Ever. 944 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 2: They didn't want it as they didn't want it as 945 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 2: a crutch. They didn't want an excuse. They didn't deny 946 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 2: that it existed. But they were like, okay, so what you're. 947 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 3: Gonna do to get around it? 948 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 2: What you're gonna do to overcome those obstacles, those battles 949 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 2: or whatever, because everybody ain't gonna like you. And oh, 950 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,479 Speaker 2: by the way, sometimes people who are white that don't 951 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 2: like you, it ain't because you black. It's because they 952 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 2: don't like you what I'm saying. So you can't always 953 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 2: point the racist stuff like that. Sometimes it's applicable, sometimes 954 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 2: it's not, and you have to deduce which one is 955 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 2: which to the best of your ability. But what you're 956 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 2: not going to be allowed to have in this house. 957 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 2: Is that as an excuse for curtailing you your ability 958 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 2: to succeed. We're not letting that happen. My grandmother, on 959 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 2: the other hand, would say, as a white person, here's 960 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 2: what racism really really looks like. This is what you 961 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 2: need to see, This is what you need to know. 962 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 2: This is how you can tell the difference. Okay, and 963 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 2: understanding that, I was able to walk out there, and 964 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 2: she taught me this very much, which was very, very big. 965 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 3: Never judge the book by its cover. Don't assume this 966 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 3: person feels this. 967 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 2: Way about you just because they look differently than you, 968 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 2: they share a different ideology, they come from a different 969 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 2: background or whatever. Give them a chance. It's not the 970 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 2: end of the world to give somebody a chance. And 971 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 2: she taught me that, and that has helped me go 972 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 2: a long way, because when I communicate with people who 973 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 2: look different than me, who come from different cultural and 974 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 2: ethnic backgrounds and things of that nature, they don't see 975 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 2: a guy that wears this on his sleeve where automatically 976 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 2: I'm against you because I think you're against me. 977 00:46:54,920 --> 00:47:00,280 Speaker 3: I've never had that issue. 978 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that from a financial perspective. You're very conservative, 979 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: you tend to be a little bit socially liberal. I'm curious, 980 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: bigger picture, do you think that America would be better 981 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,879 Speaker 1: off if Democrats and Republicans had to equally compete for 982 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: the black vote instead of many black voters automatically aligning 983 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: with the Democrat Party sometimes arguably and I think accurately, 984 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: meaning that black issues get taken for granted by the 985 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 1: Democrat Party because they feel like they've already got that support. 986 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: Would it be better to have a competition for the 987 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: black vote in your mind? 988 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think it would be better for society as 989 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 2: a whole. I've always stated that I've given speeches. You're 990 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,360 Speaker 2: Alma made one of the Alma Madas because I know 991 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 2: you got a law degree and stuff like that for 992 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 2: Vandabilt University. I spoke at Vanderbilt University, and you know 993 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 2: when I spoke did that was one of the places 994 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,720 Speaker 2: that I've spoken at, but I've spoken in many places 995 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 2: throughout the country, and one of the lines that I've 996 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 2: used is that I wish or one election, every black 997 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 2: person votes for Republican. They were like what, And I 998 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,959 Speaker 2: was like, yes, I said, because anything that you buy. 999 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 2: You have to see I guess what convinced me? You know, 1000 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 2: flatter me. You want to buy a new car, Show 1001 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 2: me what you got. You want a new house? Show 1002 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 2: me what you got. You want to condomt Show me 1003 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 2: what you got. You want some clothes? Show me what 1004 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,280 Speaker 2: you got. Why are we being transparent and our support 1005 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 2: our times have changed, obviously because of Trump or whatever 1006 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 2: you And that's not a subject that I'm running from 1007 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 2: with you or anybody else, by the way, because I 1008 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 2: have different reasons of feeling the way that I feel. 1009 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 2: But nevertheless, the point that I'm making is is that 1010 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 2: prior to him, I was always big on look flatter me. 1011 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,919 Speaker 2: Don't assume I'm voting now. Granted, most of the time 1012 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 2: I've voted Democratic. A matter of fact, I've the only the 1013 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 2: Republican I have a voted for. It was Chris Christy 1014 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,239 Speaker 2: because I couldn't stand corsigoned in New Jersey. But as 1015 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 2: I reflected on elections over the years, there are times 1016 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 2: that I wish I would have voted for a Republican 1017 00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,759 Speaker 2: because I don't get caught up in all of that. 1018 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 2: I believe in free market cap I believe in national security. 1019 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,399 Speaker 2: I don't believe in these high taxes that you see 1020 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 2: in the state of New York in California. I do 1021 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,960 Speaker 2: think that the wealth needs to be spread out. But 1022 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 2: I do believe in free market capitalism. I absolutely do that. 1023 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,239 Speaker 2: I'm not ashamed of that by any stretch of the magic. 1024 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 2: You've got a lot of people here thinking capitalism is evil, 1025 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 2: and my attitude is, well, then why don't you go 1026 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,399 Speaker 2: somewhere else? And I don't mean leave the country and 1027 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 2: you shouldn't be an American citizen or whatever the case 1028 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 2: may be. What I'm saying is this is our society 1029 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 2: is considered one of the best on a planet. We 1030 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 2: have our flaws, we have our mistakes, we're not perfect. 1031 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 2: I get all of that, But based on what I 1032 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 2: see elsewhere in this world, I can't imagine a system 1033 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 2: that I would rather be under, at least before the 1034 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 2: last six or seven years or so. 1035 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 3: Where I think chaos has just rained. 1036 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 2: That's just how I feel about it, and I don't 1037 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 2: apologize for it to anybody. 1038 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 1: What do you like about Chris Christy, Because I think 1039 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: you tweet saying you'd like to s see him on 1040 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: the on the debate stage. We got the debate coming 1041 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,800 Speaker 1: in a couple of days down in Tuscal Lou's, Alabama. 1042 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: He'll be there. He's been on Clay and Buck a bunch. 1043 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 3: I like him. 1044 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 1: He's a huge sports fan. I'm sure that you guys 1045 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: can connect on sports, but we're friends from that thing 1046 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: decently at this point. Yes, so what. 1047 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,839 Speaker 3: More, it's more personal than anything else. 1048 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,280 Speaker 2: Clay, from the standpoint that I've gotten to know him personally, 1049 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,920 Speaker 2: I like him a great deal. I think that he's smart. Obviously, 1050 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 2: he's accomplished. I think that he is about national security. 1051 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,960 Speaker 2: I thought that he did a relatively decent job, and 1052 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 2: it wasn't for the whole scandal with George Washington Bridge 1053 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 2: and or Bridgegate and stuff like that. I thought that he, 1054 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,360 Speaker 2: you know, up until that moment, he was incredibly popular. 1055 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,319 Speaker 2: But it's really just about to me, I'm weird in 1056 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 2: the sense that I don't necessarily. 1057 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 3: Have to agree with all of your policies. 1058 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 2: I have to trust that your soul is in the 1059 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 2: right place, that you're about doing what's in the best 1060 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,839 Speaker 2: interests of the country, not just yourself. 1061 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,479 Speaker 3: That's been to. 1062 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 2: Me, Okay, it's not about changing the country ideologically or 1063 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 2: having that dramatic shift or anything like that. It's about 1064 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 2: making sure that we do the kind of things that 1065 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 2: serve to appease the whole to a best of your ability, 1066 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 2: willing to find some level of compromise. We know that 1067 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,440 Speaker 2: in the state of New Jersey, the Democrats was running 1068 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,760 Speaker 2: the House in the Senate locally, you know, state wise, 1069 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 2: but somehow, some way, he was able to get some 1070 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 2: things done in the state of New Jersey. So I 1071 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 2: think about things along those lines, and I say, Okay, 1072 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 2: this is a person that has the ability to work 1073 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 2: across the aisle and try to get things done. And 1074 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 2: I think somebody like that is somebody that I believe 1075 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 2: is worth supporting. But it's really about me knowing him 1076 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 2: a bit personally. Compared to other guys. 1077 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 1: Trump and Biden look like they're going to be the 1078 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,840 Speaker 1: Democrat and Republican nominees in twenty twenty four. I know 1079 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 1: they'll be third parties. Would you vote Biden, would you 1080 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,360 Speaker 1: vote Trump? Would you vote third party? Or are you 1081 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: so frustrated you just throw up your hands, which, unfortunately, 1082 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are going to be 1083 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,680 Speaker 1: and just wouldn't even bother to show up because you 1084 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna matter. 1085 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,399 Speaker 2: As a black man, I would never throw away my vote. 1086 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 2: People died to fight for the rights for us to vote. 1087 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 2: I would never disrespect my descendants by doing something like that. 1088 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 2: You know, people made tremendous sacrifices with their lives for 1089 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 2: us to have the right to vote. And I'm definitely 1090 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,719 Speaker 2: gonna you know, voting Rightsack kicks in in nineteen sixty five, 1091 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,319 Speaker 2: I need hell the nineteen sixty PIPA crin out lot 1092 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 2: we go do all of that, then you're not going 1093 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 2: to vote. I think that's shameful, and I think that's irresponsible, 1094 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 2: and I think that it's important to recognize that the 1095 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,440 Speaker 2: biggest conduit, the biggest conduit for change is your vote. 1096 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 3: That's number one. 1097 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 2: Having said all of that, here's my answer to your 1098 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,719 Speaker 2: question about a third party as opposed to Trump about it, 1099 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,800 Speaker 2: I would tell you that I would vote third party 1100 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 2: in a heartbeat if I thought it could it could 1101 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,560 Speaker 2: win an election. I don't want to throw away in 1102 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 2: my vote, Okay, but I will tell you I'm not 1103 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,080 Speaker 2: enamored with either candidate. 1104 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 3: I'm not as damn on all of. 1105 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 2: Trump's policies as people are. There are some good things 1106 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 2: he's done. I'm from an HBCU. I know that he 1107 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 2: did things for HBCUs. I know that the economy was flourishing. 1108 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 2: We can act like we don't know that, but damn it, 1109 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,120 Speaker 2: it's true. It was flourishing under his stewardship for some time. 1110 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 2: I know COVID ended up being a disaster. Now we're 1111 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 2: finding out saying something new every day about doctor Fauci 1112 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 2: or anybody else. I don't know all of the details 1113 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 2: of this stuff, but you just read the news and 1114 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,800 Speaker 2: you see what's going on. You're listening to people like yourself, 1115 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 2: and I don't give a damn what people say about 1116 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 2: Klay Travis anybody else. 1117 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 3: Don't tell me who you like. Are they telling the truth? 1118 00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 3: Are they telling the truth? Damnit? 1119 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 2: If you're telling the truth, that damnit, I like you. 1120 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,759 Speaker 2: I mean, I just got to take it. So that's 1121 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,080 Speaker 2: just the way that it is. But when I look 1122 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,799 Speaker 2: at Trump, here's where I think that all of his 1123 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,439 Speaker 2: supporters should take something into consideration. I think that he's 1124 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,319 Speaker 2: so divisive that he could potentially cause civil war in 1125 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:56,040 Speaker 2: this country. 1126 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,319 Speaker 3: That's my concern about him. 1127 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 2: What I would ask the Republican ends is this somebody 1128 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,800 Speaker 2: like de Santists would vote right along how he'd vote. 1129 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 2: They try to implement policies just like he's implementing it. 1130 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,160 Speaker 2: Nikki Healey as well, I mean, what are you talking about. 1131 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,160 Speaker 2: They would do the things that Trump does, They would 1132 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,399 Speaker 2: just do it with considerably more decorum. 1133 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:20,439 Speaker 3: And dare I. 1134 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,319 Speaker 2: Say decency as opposed to being so divisive where you 1135 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 2: ultimately cause civil war in this country. On the other hand, 1136 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 2: this Biden, and there are a lot of people with 1137 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,360 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party that I won't give their names, but 1138 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,799 Speaker 2: they've made sure to contact me because they didn't like 1139 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,000 Speaker 2: the fact that I said this, Clay, we need a 1140 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 2: new president. The man is gonna be eighty two years 1141 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,240 Speaker 2: of age in a year twenty twenty four. There's nowhere 1142 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 2: around it. We need to stop now. You know, I 1143 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 2: would get on my man showing handed you a lot. 1144 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 2: Stop causing trouble. You're just trying to create a narrative. 1145 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 2: And here's what you're doing. Your trouble make itself. You're 1146 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,760 Speaker 2: gonna get Clay on your show. You're gonna get everybody 1147 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,840 Speaker 2: else on your show starting this nonsense. 1148 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: Why the way, who don't know For people who don't know, 1149 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,879 Speaker 1: you watch Fox News. I mean, you enjoy shot Hannity show, 1150 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: You'll watch all of Jesse Waters like, yeah. 1151 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,279 Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. I didn't like listen. I'm a fan of 1152 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,319 Speaker 2: Jesse Waters. I just didn't like what he did with 1153 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 2: the whole Dessantus thing with slavery. All I said about 1154 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 2: him was this, Why even defend that, Why even bring 1155 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,480 Speaker 2: that up? Why even try to investigate all of their 1156 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 2: positive benefits to slavery? Stop that, Let that go. You 1157 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 2: should have told the census to shut the hell up. 1158 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,840 Speaker 2: But that's the only issue that I've ever had with 1159 00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 2: Jesse Waters. But I respect the hell out of him 1160 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,520 Speaker 2: and the show that he does, and I'm fond of 1161 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 2: the work that he does. Sean Handy and I people 1162 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,600 Speaker 2: black folks just need to get over it. We go 1163 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 2: back twenty years, damn near twenty years. Sean Hannity and 1164 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,839 Speaker 2: I are gonna be cool, and that's just the way 1165 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 2: it's gonna be. I'm not apologizing for that to anybody. 1166 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 2: The same goes to Mark Levin. They know I don't 1167 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,120 Speaker 2: agree with all of their politics. But what you're not 1168 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,400 Speaker 2: gonna do is use is come to me as a 1169 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,279 Speaker 2: black man and tell me that I'm supposed to be 1170 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 2: speaking against them, as if there's some racist as people 1171 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,440 Speaker 2: or something like that, just because you don't agree with 1172 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 2: them ideology. I don't agree with them ideology ideologically. Rather, 1173 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,360 Speaker 2: they know that. But I know a they know what 1174 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 2: they're talking about too. They make salient points. And I 1175 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,040 Speaker 2: think those two guys are both decent dudes, and that's 1176 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,400 Speaker 2: just the way they'll feel about them. 1177 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 3: And I'm not changing. 1178 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 1: No, they're good dudes. I agree with that. Well, so 1179 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: what grade Joe Biden? You say eighty two? I think 1180 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 1: seventy five. The way, seventy five percent of people, regardless 1181 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,560 Speaker 1: of politics, agree that Joe Biden is too old and 1182 00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,880 Speaker 1: seems mentally and physically overwhelmed. So only twenty five percent 1183 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,799 Speaker 1: of people would even disagree with that statement that I made, 1184 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:36,359 Speaker 1: seventy five percent. It is hard to get seventy five 1185 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,920 Speaker 1: percent of people to agree on anything. So what should 1186 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,680 Speaker 1: happen for the Democrats? Like, should they pick somebody else? 1187 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:42,719 Speaker 3: What they mean? 1188 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,719 Speaker 1: If Biden's too old and I agree with you, what 1189 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:45,320 Speaker 1: should happen? 1190 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,759 Speaker 3: Right? First of all, let me tell you this. 1191 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,880 Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of people If you're a liberal, 1192 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that agree with what Biden 1193 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,480 Speaker 2: has done. They look at the economy, they don't think 1194 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,719 Speaker 2: it's that bad. They look in inflation issues, they don't 1195 00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 2: think it's that bad. They don't think we're in a 1196 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,400 Speaker 2: recession or anything like that. These are the kind of 1197 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,399 Speaker 2: things that they say. Obviously, you know, getting folks out 1198 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,480 Speaker 2: of jail for nonviolent crimes, they give them credit for that. 1199 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,720 Speaker 2: There's a litany of things. My issue is this. It's statesmanship. 1200 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,319 Speaker 2: So definitely I get where they're coming from. But you 1201 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:19,080 Speaker 2: gotta show the ability not just to be competent and cogent, 1202 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 2: alert and vibrant, Okay, these things come into play, but. 1203 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 3: The ability to show, to display. 1204 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,320 Speaker 2: There's no reason to doubt that you'll be this way 1205 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,000 Speaker 2: for the next four years. And you cannot tell me 1206 00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,640 Speaker 2: that that's what's he's showing us. It's just a fact, 1207 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 2: and nobody wants me to say it. I can't even 1208 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,240 Speaker 2: tell you, especially both of the Bike Blue believe. What 1209 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,800 Speaker 2: the hell, y'all know what you talked about. Why would 1210 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,240 Speaker 2: you say this blah blah blah blah. I said, because 1211 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:45,080 Speaker 2: he's losing. It's one thing if he's winning, because I 1212 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,600 Speaker 2: do think he would be less harmful than Trump in 1213 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,040 Speaker 2: terms of just keeping us whole as a society per se. 1214 00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm not talking policy play. I'm not talking policy because 1215 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,720 Speaker 2: it depends on what your taste is. 1216 00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:57,160 Speaker 3: Whatever. 1217 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,040 Speaker 2: You know me, I can go both ways because I'm 1218 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,080 Speaker 2: gonna have more money. I'm up with Trump. I'm gonna 1219 00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,080 Speaker 2: have more money in my pocket with Trump. Okay, But 1220 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,439 Speaker 2: of course there's some other things that may now work 1221 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,400 Speaker 2: to my advantage. And I get all of that. But 1222 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:11,800 Speaker 2: when I'm thinking about Biden, you have to show that ability. 1223 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,720 Speaker 2: You haven't been. There has been flagrant slippage. And in 1224 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,960 Speaker 2: my perfect world, it would be nice if Kamala Harris 1225 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,800 Speaker 2: showed up and had more of an impact. That has 1226 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,200 Speaker 2: not been the case. Now here's where I'm going. I 1227 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:33,800 Speaker 2: am in no way saying that me myself supports this move. 1228 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 2: But what makes sense if you are a flaming liberal, 1229 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:44,800 Speaker 2: what makes sense is that Biden bows out and Gavin 1230 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:51,000 Speaker 2: Newsom takes the mantle and runs for the presidency against 1231 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,880 Speaker 2: whoever the Republican nominee is. It presumably is Trump. But 1232 00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,240 Speaker 2: ninety one counts against you, you know, you know, four 1233 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 2: different charges counts. What if he gets convicted, what will happen. 1234 00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:07,160 Speaker 2: Then Nikki heally gaining some momentum, Ron Desanta's gaining some momentum. 1235 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,320 Speaker 2: Christy is still alive. I understand it's a big deal. 1236 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,960 Speaker 2: I get where you're coming from with all of that. 1237 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 2: But what I would tell you is, at the end 1238 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,040 Speaker 2: of the day, this is what it comes down to. 1239 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 2: In the end, it would be to me Trump versus gavenusom. 1240 00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,200 Speaker 1: A couple more questions for you. I appreciate this has 1241 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,960 Speaker 1: been so much fun. By the way, are you optimistic 1242 00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: or pessimistic on race relations. 1243 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,760 Speaker 3: I'm pessimistic. I'm pessimistic because. 1244 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 2: It's not On one hand, I hold their politicians accountable 1245 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 2: because it's very, very different. 1246 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,960 Speaker 3: It's very it's very difficult to hold. 1247 00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,040 Speaker 2: Folks to a standard in our nation that our leaders 1248 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:58,000 Speaker 2: won't comply with. We have politicians on Capitol Hill calling 1249 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 2: each others out their names than like a bunch of hooligans, 1250 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 2: a bunch of belligerent children. It's embarrassing and they should 1251 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,040 Speaker 2: be ashamed of themselves. They really really should, because I 1252 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 2: think that they've contributed to the disintegration of our society morally, 1253 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,560 Speaker 2: not just by how they've conducted themselves, but how they've 1254 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,640 Speaker 2: chosen to conduct themselves openly. 1255 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,560 Speaker 3: I think Trump is guilty of that. 1256 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,640 Speaker 2: I think folks with the whole McCarthy thing when he 1257 01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,480 Speaker 2: was trying to become the Speaker of the House. You 1258 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 2: saw how folks were acting. You saw how they were 1259 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,480 Speaker 2: acting when they pushed them out. You see some of 1260 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,720 Speaker 2: the things Republicans and Democrats alike, how they speak about 1261 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:39,200 Speaker 2: one another, no honor, no decorum, no decency whatsoever. You know, 1262 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,880 Speaker 2: there's been people on the left that's calling Republicans all. 1263 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:44,600 Speaker 3: Kinds and names. 1264 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,480 Speaker 2: But then you want to do business with them and 1265 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,440 Speaker 2: expect us to believe that y'all could do business with 1266 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,320 Speaker 2: one another. I think that's an utter disgrace. But I 1267 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,440 Speaker 2: also think that society has gravitated towards that. And I 1268 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 2: think that you have an abundance of people out there 1269 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,840 Speaker 2: who were looking for an excuse to get away or 1270 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,480 Speaker 2: to find a way to be able to get away 1271 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,080 Speaker 2: with acting the way that they always wanted to act 1272 01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,800 Speaker 2: to begin with. Do I think, for example, Clay as 1273 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 2: I'm sitting here with you now that Donald Trump and 1274 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 2: and you know, kind of provoked and egged on dudes 1275 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,920 Speaker 2: of folks that that that that you know showed up 1276 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,320 Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill. Do I believe it was an insurrection? 1277 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:20,160 Speaker 3: Sure? 1278 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,600 Speaker 2: But I also think, and I've said this publicly, those 1279 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,680 Speaker 2: were grown ass people. Now, he gave a speech and 1280 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,200 Speaker 2: he talked about walking over there peacefully, but in the 1281 01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 2: same breath, you know, peace wasn't on his mind. And 1282 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,200 Speaker 2: you could can, you can engage in whatever you want, 1283 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,120 Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, they're responsible for 1284 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 2: their actions to me, not necessarily him. That's my personal opinion. 1285 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 2: But in the same breath, my god, what if elected 1286 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 2: officials had gotten killed, five police officers did die. I'm 1287 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,440 Speaker 2: just thinking along those lines, how are we okay with that? 1288 01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,560 Speaker 2: And so then when we look at a society and 1289 01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,240 Speaker 2: we say we are okay with that, there's a lot 1290 01:01:58,280 --> 01:01:59,960 Speaker 2: of us that are okay with that. We see a 1291 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 2: lot of lawlessness going on throughout this country. You know why, 1292 01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,600 Speaker 2: because that's how they wanted to be to begin with. 1293 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,760 Speaker 2: They were just looking for an excuse. And I don't 1294 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,000 Speaker 2: see how it gets better if our leaders don't get better. 1295 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,919 Speaker 1: So in the eighties, nineties, early two thousands, I want 1296 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,480 Speaker 1: to see if you agree or disagree with this thesis, 1297 01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:24,040 Speaker 1: it seemed like most of what we did was say, white, Black, Asian, 1298 01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,040 Speaker 1: and Hispanic. We may look different, but we actually are 1299 01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,920 Speaker 1: far more in common even though our identities may appear different. 1300 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:37,120 Speaker 1: In other words, that seemed to be the culture that existed, 1301 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,320 Speaker 1: and I was very optimistic that people were getting along better. 1302 01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly when that shifted, but it 1303 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,680 Speaker 1: seems to me that the rise of what I call 1304 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,240 Speaker 1: identity politics. And I know we talked about this last 1305 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,040 Speaker 1: time on your show, which is to me that your 1306 01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: identity defines what you believe. I e. You're a black man, 1307 01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,520 Speaker 1: so it's expected that you're going to believe X Y 1308 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 1: and Z. I'm a white guy in the South, so 1309 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,160 Speaker 1: I should believe X Y and Z. When the reality 1310 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: is both of us and everybody out there listening to 1311 01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,640 Speaker 1: us too, is far more complicated and interesting than whatever 1312 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,240 Speaker 1: your physical identity might be. And that it is therefore 1313 01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,280 Speaker 1: this idea that we're all primarily defined by the things 1314 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,360 Speaker 1: we don't control, by the choices we don't make. As 1315 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,160 Speaker 1: opposed to as you said, I mean, I think everybody 1316 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,920 Speaker 1: who's listened to us talk over the course of the 1317 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,520 Speaker 1: show is going to have a different opinion that of 1318 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,439 Speaker 1: you than they had before. I think a more favorable one, 1319 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,360 Speaker 1: as typically happens when a conversation takes place. So I 1320 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,640 Speaker 1: think we have to break identity politics and stop looking 1321 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,520 Speaker 1: at someone primarily as their race, or their gender or 1322 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,640 Speaker 1: their sexuality as a defining characteristic. And I think that's 1323 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: what has led us apart. 1324 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,000 Speaker 2: That's my thes that's one way, that's one way to 1325 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 2: look at it. Let me tell you where I feel 1326 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,440 Speaker 2: differently as a black man. My experiences are different than 1327 01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,000 Speaker 2: you in this country. One of the things that I'm 1328 01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,640 Speaker 2: very popular for saying the white America is if I 1329 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,840 Speaker 2: call somebody a racist bastard or no good bastard, would 1330 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,960 Speaker 2: prejudice sifting through their soul or whatever. If that's not you, 1331 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about those people 1332 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,080 Speaker 2: who are that way, not white people. I'm talking about 1333 01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:23,680 Speaker 2: those people, those individuals, those characteristics that I highlighted. What 1334 01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,720 Speaker 2: you have is a situation where you can look at 1335 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,280 Speaker 2: identity politics in a slightly different way than me. 1336 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 3: You just articulated where you're coming from. 1337 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,720 Speaker 2: You know what I would also call identity politics play 1338 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,920 Speaker 2: somebody that automatically assumes they have to jump on the 1339 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,560 Speaker 2: bandwagon and support the person that you just excorre that. 1340 01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,640 Speaker 2: I just excoriated, classifying them the way that they did, 1341 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960 Speaker 2: as if I'm talking about them when I wasn't. If 1342 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,600 Speaker 2: it doesn't identify with you and you have nothing to 1343 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,800 Speaker 2: do with such a characterization, why are you being defensive. 1344 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about those people 1345 01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,160 Speaker 2: who conduct themselves that way. Take the into account, Clay. 1346 01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,280 Speaker 2: During the civil rights era, there were black folks fighting 1347 01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,280 Speaker 2: and marching and putting their lives on the line. 1348 01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,760 Speaker 3: For civil rights. I recall seeing white people out there 1349 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:10,480 Speaker 3: fighting with them. 1350 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:12,720 Speaker 2: There were some white people out there fighting with them, 1351 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,960 Speaker 2: putting their lives on the line, fighting for civil rights 1352 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,200 Speaker 2: for black people. Everybody that's white ain't evil. Everybody that's 1353 01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 2: black ain't good. Okay, So we got to understand that 1354 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,680 Speaker 2: and take it to that point. But here's where I 1355 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,360 Speaker 2: would really differ from you. You talked about identity politics. 1356 01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:35,240 Speaker 2: I got something ten times more damaging woke culture. It 1357 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,760 Speaker 2: ain't popular to say it's walk culture. Here's why wok 1358 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,240 Speaker 2: culture is possible is worse because no matter what your 1359 01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 2: identity is or what my identity is, we can live 1360 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,240 Speaker 2: in our separate worlds. So we could choose to come 1361 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 2: together woke get you fired if you ain't woke enough, 1362 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,320 Speaker 2: if you don't agree with what the woke culture says 1363 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,680 Speaker 2: it wants you to agree with. And so what happens 1364 01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,800 Speaker 2: is somebody like me Clay Travis might say ten things 1365 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,240 Speaker 2: I disagree with, but nine of them I have no 1366 01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,000 Speaker 2: problem with. 1367 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,680 Speaker 3: Now, if I have a problem with something, I'll say so. 1368 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,640 Speaker 3: But the other nine things you said. 1369 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,960 Speaker 2: I'm like, wait a minute, he might feel differently than me, 1370 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,920 Speaker 2: but it's perfectly within his right to say that, is 1371 01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,680 Speaker 2: perfectly within his right to feel that way. He said 1372 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,440 Speaker 2: absolutely nothing wrong. Why are you trying to get him fired? 1373 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,120 Speaker 2: And then here's where it comes. I'm looking at Clay 1374 01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,800 Speaker 2: on the right, but I see Bill Maher on the left. 1375 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,480 Speaker 2: I was at Club Random in Hollywood talking to Bill 1376 01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,200 Speaker 2: Maher on his podcast for two hours. Okay, his politics 1377 01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,640 Speaker 2: don't identify with Clay, But listening to the both of them, 1378 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,439 Speaker 2: I don't see that big of a difference in terms 1379 01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 2: of their belief in freedom of speech, freedom of expression, 1380 01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,919 Speaker 2: having the right to say what you feel, as long 1381 01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 2: as it comes from a cojing and substantive place, there's 1382 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,680 Speaker 2: no problem with it. Who said we have to disagree 1383 01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,400 Speaker 2: if Clay Travis invited me on this show and we 1384 01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,640 Speaker 2: talked politics for two hours. I'm quite sure we would 1385 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,640 Speaker 2: disagree on a few things. You know what you wouldn't 1386 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:12,360 Speaker 2: get from me offensiveness. I wouldn't be offended by what 1387 01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,680 Speaker 2: you're thinking. I told you I'm cool with Sean Hennity. 1388 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,280 Speaker 2: I told you I'm cool with Mark Levin. I can 1389 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,560 Speaker 2: assure you they both know. Sixty five or seventy five 1390 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,520 Speaker 2: percent of the time, I think they're off their rocker, 1391 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,680 Speaker 2: but you know something, they know what they're talking about. 1392 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,400 Speaker 3: They're firm with what they believe and. 1393 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,360 Speaker 2: At their core the dc human beings, and I'm good 1394 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,919 Speaker 2: with that. They get a little wild sometimes, especially Mark 1395 01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,640 Speaker 2: Levin because he's so dogged about the Constitution and everything. 1396 01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,960 Speaker 2: Don't get me started with him, but I respect the 1397 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,600 Speaker 2: hell out of them. That what's wrong with it. We 1398 01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,280 Speaker 2: got to grow up as a society and accept the 1399 01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:52,760 Speaker 2: fact that differences are okay as long as we're wishing 1400 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,080 Speaker 2: the best for our fellow man and women, and we're 1401 01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,720 Speaker 2: not using every little excuse that we can to end 1402 01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,360 Speaker 2: some body's career. Because I've made mistakes, You've made mistakes, 1403 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,600 Speaker 2: we all have. But my God, should we lose our 1404 01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:07,560 Speaker 2: careers for it. 1405 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,080 Speaker 3: I don't agree. I don't agree with that at all. 1406 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:14,120 Speaker 2: And I think WoT culture has instigated that kind of thinking. 1407 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,840 Speaker 2: And that's why when you've spoken about WoT culture, I've 1408 01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,840 Speaker 2: sat up there and said the people he's right, he's right. 1409 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,680 Speaker 1: I just think the idea of firing anybody because you 1410 01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,040 Speaker 1: don't like their opinion, oftentimes on a show that is 1411 01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:34,240 Speaker 1: based on opinions, like wo P Goldberg got suspended on 1412 01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,360 Speaker 1: the View for sharing her opinion. I'm like, I know 1413 01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,200 Speaker 1: you've gotten suspended before. Almost everybody in media. It feels 1414 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,360 Speaker 1: like who has strong opinions has gotten suspended for saying 1415 01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,599 Speaker 1: things that they actually believe. And I just think it's wrong, right, 1416 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,000 Speaker 1: Like you can agree, it's long, react, it's crazy. 1417 01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:53,200 Speaker 3: It's wrong. It's wrong. 1418 01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:55,439 Speaker 2: But I've told you this on my show, and I'll 1419 01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,840 Speaker 2: tell you this to your audience right now. The one 1420 01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:59,680 Speaker 2: thing that I would only, the only thing that I 1421 01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,760 Speaker 2: would ask an abundance of people on the right, including yourself, 1422 01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:10,479 Speaker 2: is that be sensitive and appreciative of the platform you 1423 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,760 Speaker 2: have because you can afford to disagree and keep your job. 1424 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,479 Speaker 2: There are a lot of people that lose their jobs 1425 01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,080 Speaker 2: for saying. There's a lot of the things that you 1426 01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:23,080 Speaker 2: guys say, most of which I have no problem with. Okay, 1427 01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,400 Speaker 2: it's just the way that we live. And so if 1428 01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,080 Speaker 2: you have somebody and they're working under an umbrella where 1429 01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,320 Speaker 2: you have those kind of restrictions, okay, then what's the 1430 01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,040 Speaker 2: greater good here? I might need to be quiet about 1431 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,600 Speaker 2: this because I'm about to raw about that. And the 1432 01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,759 Speaker 2: thing that I'm about to raw about is gonna affect 1433 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,120 Speaker 2: millions alive. This one right here ain't gonna affect folks 1434 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 2: so much, So it's not that big a deal. You 1435 01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:49,080 Speaker 2: make those judicious decisions sometimes depending on who you work for. 1436 01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,160 Speaker 2: Then we got advertise as a sponsors. Okay, Yeah, you 1437 01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:53,720 Speaker 2: can say what you want, but we ain't gonna spend 1438 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,439 Speaker 2: our money on this platform because we don't like what 1439 01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:56,920 Speaker 2: you said. 1440 01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,519 Speaker 3: And so you got to be sensitive to what they said. 1441 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,720 Speaker 2: Now guys will acknowledge, well, they just got to be 1442 01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:04,720 Speaker 2: sensitive because the advertiser would have let them go, or 1443 01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:05,760 Speaker 2: their job would have let them go. 1444 01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,040 Speaker 3: But then they're insulted for that. Well, wait a minute, if. 1445 01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:10,800 Speaker 2: They don't have a job waiting for them and they 1446 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 2: got bills to pay, Oh, all I have to do 1447 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,360 Speaker 2: for these next fifteen minutes to shut the hell up 1448 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,040 Speaker 2: and not say anything about this issue. You live to 1449 01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,920 Speaker 2: fight another day in life. We make those decisions all 1450 01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,519 Speaker 2: the time. There's nothing wrong with that when that's the reason. 1451 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,160 Speaker 2: But there is a level of fearlessness that you have 1452 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,040 Speaker 2: to have in this industry. People like me have it, 1453 01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,760 Speaker 2: You have it, and others. But it took us a while. 1454 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,680 Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't take us too long to get there. 1455 01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:36,880 Speaker 2: We understood what it is, we understood what we were 1456 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,439 Speaker 2: going to be. But we also are smart enough to 1457 01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,400 Speaker 2: know where the true mind fields lie. And there's always 1458 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,639 Speaker 2: mindfields that you have to avoid, even in our profession. 1459 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:48,840 Speaker 1: A couple more I want to hit you. I know you. 1460 01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,599 Speaker 1: This has been amazing. I think people are gonna. 1461 01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:51,000 Speaker 3: Love it good. 1462 01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:55,360 Speaker 1: When you lost, you had a show quite frankly, two 1463 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,280 Speaker 1: thousand and five to two thousand and seven, A lot 1464 01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,280 Speaker 1: of people out there getting there her own show is 1465 01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,880 Speaker 1: the biggest dream they could possibly have. You said, you 1466 01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,320 Speaker 1: told your mom after your knee injury that she had 1467 01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,160 Speaker 1: to pay for on her own health insurance. I'm gonna 1468 01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,839 Speaker 1: be on TV. You worked your ass off, take those jobs. 1469 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,639 Speaker 1: Fifteen three hundred dollars four hundred dollars a week, fifteen 1470 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,639 Speaker 1: to three a year. You get a show, it only 1471 01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,200 Speaker 1: lasts for a year, then you're off ESPN. What were 1472 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,280 Speaker 1: your thoughts when you got to that pinnacle and then 1473 01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,559 Speaker 1: you kind of got it yanked out from underneath you. 1474 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,240 Speaker 1: Did you think you would get another shot? Was that 1475 01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,720 Speaker 1: a dark time for you to have success and then 1476 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,000 Speaker 1: have it coupled so quickly with a loss. 1477 01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:40,880 Speaker 3: It was a very dark time, you know. 1478 01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,200 Speaker 2: When I first got the job, first of all, I 1479 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,040 Speaker 2: was scared to death because I never hosted the show 1480 01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,519 Speaker 2: in my life. And my oldest sister Linda's like, you know, 1481 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,599 Speaker 2: she gets mellow and all of that stuff. And when 1482 01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,400 Speaker 2: I told her I was scared, she looked at me 1483 01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,760 Speaker 2: and said, oh, we are punk now, that's what we are. 1484 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,200 Speaker 3: We are punk now. We scared. 1485 01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,679 Speaker 2: I mean, ask what you're doing. That's not the brother 1486 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,960 Speaker 2: I know. I mean, you be ashamed of yourself, you know. 1487 01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,600 Speaker 2: And I was like, holy shit, I couldn't believe she 1488 01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:05,920 Speaker 2: said that to me. And I was like, all right, 1489 01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,479 Speaker 2: I accept the challenge. And then when I did the show, 1490 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,320 Speaker 2: I did three hundred and twenty seven shows interview nearly 1491 01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,599 Speaker 2: eight hundred guests, had practically everybody on near but Tiger 1492 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,320 Speaker 2: Woods and Michael Jordan. And when it got canceled, I 1493 01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,519 Speaker 2: had taken over as executive producer the previous six months 1494 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 2: and the ratings had gone up about twenty three percent, 1495 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,840 Speaker 2: So I certainly, I certainly was a bit disconcerted about that, 1496 01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,599 Speaker 2: But I also understood business. It was in New York, 1497 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,639 Speaker 2: inside the Penaltel, right across the street from Madison Square Garden. 1498 01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,840 Speaker 2: It cousted a lot of money to have a show there, 1499 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,080 Speaker 2: and the ratings that I was generating didn't justify the 1500 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,040 Speaker 2: course to produce the show on a daily basis, And 1501 01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:47,600 Speaker 2: so understanding the business climate that that hurt. But nevertheless 1502 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,160 Speaker 2: I had other jobs for ESPN. It was when they 1503 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 2: came to me a year later and told me that 1504 01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,080 Speaker 2: they didn't want me anymore, that I wasn't going to 1505 01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,280 Speaker 2: be under contract with them at all. 1506 01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:58,760 Speaker 3: That's when it was very sore. 1507 01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,200 Speaker 1: Was that conversation, like, what was that moment like for you? 1508 01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:03,080 Speaker 1: When that happened. 1509 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:08,240 Speaker 2: The one of the executives for ESPN met me in Stanford, Connecticut, 1510 01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,439 Speaker 2: met me at a lobby at a restaurant at the 1511 01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:15,120 Speaker 2: Mariotte hotel. I believe it's off for Route fifteen, if 1512 01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:19,760 Speaker 2: I remember correctly. And he sat me down, and I 1513 01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:23,759 Speaker 2: had received the heads up from somebody an hour earlier 1514 01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,120 Speaker 2: that they were meeting with me to let me know 1515 01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,400 Speaker 2: that my contract wasn't going to be renewed. And so 1516 01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,880 Speaker 2: this one executive met with me and he told me 1517 01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,519 Speaker 2: that my contract wasn't going to be a new It's 1518 01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,080 Speaker 2: all in my books Straight Shooter Memoir, Second Chances and 1519 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,120 Speaker 2: First Takes, which I'm proud to say as a New 1520 01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,320 Speaker 2: York Times bestseller, and it was there in the book 1521 01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,720 Speaker 2: that I wrote. He sat down, he met with me. 1522 01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:50,000 Speaker 2: He said, very matter of factly, we decided that we're 1523 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,360 Speaker 2: not going to bring you back. We're not going to 1524 01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:55,839 Speaker 2: renew your contract. And this was not a unilateral decision. 1525 01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:00,519 Speaker 2: So he basically said that you're not coming back, and 1526 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:02,080 Speaker 2: it's because a collection of us. 1527 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:02,919 Speaker 3: Don't want you anymore. 1528 01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,439 Speaker 2: And I remember how devastated I was, but I tried 1529 01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,280 Speaker 2: to hide it. And then what happened was is that 1530 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:14,320 Speaker 2: I said to him, who knows, you know, I said, 1531 01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,519 Speaker 2: I thank you for everything. I appreciate it. I'm sorry 1532 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,960 Speaker 2: it didn't work out, but who knows. Maybe unfortunate and 1533 01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,360 Speaker 2: lucky enough to get back come back someday, and. 1534 01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:24,479 Speaker 3: He said yeah, just shrugged it off. 1535 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,639 Speaker 2: And then I was eating my salad and I said, 1536 01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:29,760 Speaker 2: I don't mind eating right here. 1537 01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:30,920 Speaker 3: I finished my salad. 1538 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,880 Speaker 2: He said sure, and he got up and he walked 1539 01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,640 Speaker 2: to the other side of the room and left me 1540 01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,920 Speaker 2: sitting there eating by myself. And what it said to 1541 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,800 Speaker 2: me was that they wanted nothing to do with me, 1542 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,880 Speaker 2: and that was devastating. So I was driving home and 1543 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,120 Speaker 2: then I pulled over on one of those mobile gas 1544 01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:53,960 Speaker 2: station rest stops while I was driving back to New York, 1545 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:56,880 Speaker 2: and all I did was take both of my hands 1546 01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:00,200 Speaker 2: and bury my face in my hands because I knew 1547 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 2: it was over and I had no prospects zero. I didn't, 1548 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,519 Speaker 2: you know, I wasn't knowledgeable, I was stupid. I wasn't 1549 01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:13,360 Speaker 2: knowledgeable enough about the industry. I didn't prepare myself to 1550 01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:17,160 Speaker 2: have to lose everything. I went through all of that. 1551 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,559 Speaker 2: And when I went through all of that, it was 1552 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:26,640 Speaker 2: incredibly scary because I wasn't expecting dad. That's when my 1553 01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,640 Speaker 2: ex was pregnant at the time, and so you know, 1554 01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,360 Speaker 2: when that happened, it was like, oh my god, and 1555 01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,719 Speaker 2: so all of a sudden, everything is flashing before my eyes. 1556 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm unemployed, I have no prospects, and I'm about to 1557 01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:43,559 Speaker 2: be a dad and unintentionally, am I going to be 1558 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,120 Speaker 2: my father? Am I going to be somebody that's not 1559 01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,200 Speaker 2: going to be paying the bills and not going to 1560 01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,759 Speaker 2: be able to provide for my family? Or he chose 1561 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,759 Speaker 2: not to. I was in a position where I had nothing. 1562 01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,840 Speaker 2: All I had was my savings, and fortunate enough for me, 1563 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,479 Speaker 2: I had saved up a few hundred thousand dollars, so 1564 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,920 Speaker 2: I had some money to live off of. But it was, 1565 01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,320 Speaker 2: without question, the scariest time of my life. 1566 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,599 Speaker 1: How long did it take you to get back on 1567 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,519 Speaker 1: your feet? Because I've been fired? I bet that almost 1568 01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,040 Speaker 1: everybody out there who's listening to us right now has 1569 01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 1: lost a job at some point. It's a more debilitating 1570 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,200 Speaker 1: feeling when you have kids that are responsible for you, 1571 01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,720 Speaker 1: or a family that's responsible for you, because it just 1572 01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,519 Speaker 1: it takes like it just absolutely zaps your soul in 1573 01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,120 Speaker 1: many ways. And most people are not fortunate enough, as 1574 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned, to have tons of savings, so it's not 1575 01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,600 Speaker 1: like you can just retire. I mean, I'm doing the 1576 01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,120 Speaker 1: math here you're roughly forty two, forty three years old 1577 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,880 Speaker 1: when this happened, So you know, it's not like you're 1578 01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,240 Speaker 1: close to retirement or medicare or anything like that. Like 1579 01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:45,720 Speaker 1: you got to get on your feet and get back. 1580 01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:46,559 Speaker 1: How long did it take? 1581 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,320 Speaker 2: Ten months? Ten and a half months, to be exact. 1582 01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,599 Speaker 2: I was unemployed the whole time. I was living off 1583 01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:59,040 Speaker 2: my savings the whole time, and ultimately I ultimately got 1584 01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,080 Speaker 2: a job. I had a warm an agent who came 1585 01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,040 Speaker 2: back into my life just to help me get back 1586 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,320 Speaker 2: on my feet. His name is Steve Mountain, based out 1587 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,639 Speaker 2: of Philadelphia, represents a lot of hockey players. I'll never 1588 01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,080 Speaker 2: forget him as long as I live. Eternally grateful to 1589 01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,519 Speaker 2: him for helping to get me back on my feet, 1590 01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,200 Speaker 2: and he ultimately got me a job at Fox Sports Radio. 1591 01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,280 Speaker 2: I had gone from making one point three million to 1592 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:25,000 Speaker 2: making zero to now making three hundred and sixty thousand dollars, 1593 01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:29,400 Speaker 2: and so for me, you know, it was just about 1594 01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,719 Speaker 2: getting started and getting back into the mix and putting 1595 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,120 Speaker 2: myself in a position to resurrect my career. 1596 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,720 Speaker 3: And I was hell bent on doing just that. 1597 01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,639 Speaker 2: And you know, while I was there at Fox Sports Radio, 1598 01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,759 Speaker 2: I was the one who broke the story that Lebron 1599 01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,559 Speaker 2: James would be taking his talents to South Beach. I 1600 01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,280 Speaker 2: had broken that story weeks before anybody else had it, 1601 01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,679 Speaker 2: that he would be joining Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh 1602 01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:53,839 Speaker 2: in Miami to play for the Miami Heat. 1603 01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,880 Speaker 3: And so when I did that, the sports world took notice. 1604 01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:59,600 Speaker 2: And they were reminded of the kind of contacts and 1605 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,200 Speaker 2: resource that I have. And as a result, a guy 1606 01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:05,160 Speaker 2: by the name of Dave Robins, who's the boss at 1607 01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,799 Speaker 2: one of the bosses at ESPN, was always a champion 1608 01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,479 Speaker 2: of mine. He was running ESPN Radio in New York 1609 01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:15,599 Speaker 2: and he had asked me to come back, and he 1610 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 2: had to convince the hanchos to let me come back. 1611 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,040 Speaker 2: And when they let me come back, it was two 1612 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:22,000 Speaker 2: things that happened. 1613 01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,519 Speaker 3: First of all, you have a radio show, you know 1614 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:25,400 Speaker 3: this Clay. 1615 01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:27,120 Speaker 2: If you got like a two hour radio show in 1616 01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,800 Speaker 2: a media market like New York, you're gonna make about 1617 01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,320 Speaker 2: three to four hundred thousand. Well, I had a two 1618 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,839 Speaker 2: hour radio show in New York and then immediately following 1619 01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,880 Speaker 2: that a two hour radio show in LA and combined, 1620 01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,840 Speaker 2: I was making four hundred thousand that's all they were paid. 1621 01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,080 Speaker 2: And Dave Robinson said to me, I know this is wrong, 1622 01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,479 Speaker 2: I know this sucks. It's a low number, but you're 1623 01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:53,800 Speaker 2: one of the best ever, and you're gonna come back 1624 01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,959 Speaker 2: here and you're gonna show them that you can kick ass. 1625 01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,280 Speaker 2: And when you do that, we'll have no choice but 1626 01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,240 Speaker 2: to take care of you. Take this opportunity. And I 1627 01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,320 Speaker 2: left out one important nugget. As you know, I've been 1628 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,479 Speaker 2: number one with first take on morning television sports television 1629 01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,360 Speaker 2: for twelve consecutive years in counting. I was prohibited from 1630 01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,479 Speaker 2: being on television, so when they brought me back, they 1631 01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,040 Speaker 2: wouldn't allow me on ESPN television the same boss side 1632 01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,720 Speaker 2: it Let Me Go brought me back, but I was 1633 01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,080 Speaker 2: prohibited and restricted. I could not show up on television. 1634 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,960 Speaker 2: So from essentially May of two thousand and nine to 1635 01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:36,000 Speaker 2: April of twenty twelve, people don't realize I wasn't on 1636 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,400 Speaker 2: sports television. If you wanted to see me, you saw 1637 01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:42,840 Speaker 2: me on the air talking politics for MSNBC, Fox News, 1638 01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,960 Speaker 2: and CNN. That's when you saw me on television. And 1639 01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:49,240 Speaker 2: I didn't get paid a dime for any of those appearances. 1640 01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,599 Speaker 1: So when you see the success of first take. Now 1641 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,200 Speaker 1: two parts, When did you think to yourself, Okay, we 1642 01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,720 Speaker 1: got something because you had a television show before. And 1643 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,439 Speaker 1: second part, when did you start to feel like, Okay, 1644 01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,400 Speaker 1: I can breathe and enjoy it. And let me tell 1645 01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,240 Speaker 1: you why. I asked that I like to throw on 1646 01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:15,599 Speaker 1: the television and watch sometimes people without the sound on it. All. 1647 01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,360 Speaker 1: I did early sports talk radio, so you know, i'd 1648 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:20,360 Speaker 1: be watching the news to make sure I didn't miss anything. 1649 01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:24,160 Speaker 1: Early morning with our friend Julie Talbot show. She's phenomenal, 1650 01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,200 Speaker 1: and I felt like I could tell she's amazing. I 1651 01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:31,479 Speaker 1: felt like I could tell who truly loved their job 1652 01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:35,360 Speaker 1: by just facial expressions and the fun that they seem 1653 01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:38,439 Speaker 1: to be having on air, because it's contagious. So when 1654 01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:40,800 Speaker 1: did you know you had something? And when did you 1655 01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,720 Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, they're not gonna take it away from me, 1656 01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,880 Speaker 1: I can really enjoy it. Or do you still in 1657 01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:48,960 Speaker 1: the back of your mind think to yourself, Oh, they 1658 01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:50,920 Speaker 1: could still take this away from me like they did 1659 01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:51,360 Speaker 1: it before. 1660 01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,160 Speaker 2: Well, I know we had something special when Skip and 1661 01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,120 Speaker 2: I catapulted to number one on ESPN two in one month, 1662 01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,600 Speaker 2: and within one year we were number one in the 1663 01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,000 Speaker 2: morning period and we've never relinquished that spot ever since. 1664 01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:08,640 Speaker 2: That's the answer the first question. The second question is no, 1665 01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,639 Speaker 2: I never feel like I have it. I always feel 1666 01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:14,200 Speaker 2: like they're going to take it away. It's one of 1667 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,759 Speaker 2: the reasons I have my own podcast, my own YouTube channel, 1668 01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,679 Speaker 2: I build my own I'm building my own production company. 1669 01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,160 Speaker 3: Even now as we sit here tonight, I'm so. 1670 01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:29,000 Speaker 2: I have a very close relationship with everybody, from the CEO, 1671 01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:32,800 Speaker 2: Bob Iger, to Jimmy Pittarboro the president, who both of 1672 01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:35,400 Speaker 2: them have been absolutely wonderful to me and what have you. 1673 01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,920 Speaker 2: But Clay, they know I don't assume they're gonna want me. 1674 01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:42,920 Speaker 2: My contracts up in eighteen months, and I can tell 1675 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,160 Speaker 2: you right now I'm not planning on staying. I hope 1676 01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:49,759 Speaker 2: to stay, I want to stay, but make no mistake 1677 01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,120 Speaker 2: about it, I will never get over how they let 1678 01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,760 Speaker 2: me go. Never, And as far as I'm concerned, they 1679 01:21:57,240 --> 01:22:01,240 Speaker 2: means everybody. It's not about esp In, It's about corporate 1680 01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:05,120 Speaker 2: America at the snap of a finger, particularly particularly rather 1681 01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:08,080 Speaker 2: in this day and age, whether it's Disney, whether it's 1682 01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:12,439 Speaker 2: Spotify recently, whether it's Amazon, it's whomever, you want to 1683 01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:17,439 Speaker 2: point to. We see cuts taking place all the time, 1684 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,519 Speaker 2: and that is why I'm so grateful. I can't even 1685 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,879 Speaker 2: tell you how ecstatic I am. First of all, somebody 1686 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,679 Speaker 2: like yourself doing what you do with your show without kick. 1687 01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:27,960 Speaker 3: I respect your vision. 1688 01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:29,840 Speaker 2: I respect the fact that you're a person that went 1689 01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,120 Speaker 2: out there and built your own stuff. 1690 01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,360 Speaker 3: I got mad respect for that. I don't know about 1691 01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:35,439 Speaker 3: anybody else, but I know. 1692 01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:37,920 Speaker 2: I respect it. I'll tell you somebody else. I respect 1693 01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,840 Speaker 2: Pat McAfee. I can't thank Pat McKee enough for coming 1694 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,599 Speaker 2: to ESPN, because thank him for setting the model. 1695 01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,760 Speaker 3: You know you want ESPN. You want something turnkey. 1696 01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,960 Speaker 2: You want somebody that comes with their own established product, Okay, 1697 01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,920 Speaker 2: that they own, that they operate, that they can license 1698 01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:57,360 Speaker 2: to you, and all you got to do is. 1699 01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:58,960 Speaker 3: Turn the key. But that's what I did. 1700 01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,760 Speaker 2: I built my own television studio out of my own 1701 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,240 Speaker 2: pocket in New Jersey. My own studio. I just opened 1702 01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:07,400 Speaker 2: it three weeks ago. This is my home studio here. 1703 01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:09,040 Speaker 2: But I built my own studio. 1704 01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:10,759 Speaker 3: Okay. I came seven. 1705 01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,000 Speaker 2: Figures out of my own pocket and built it. Okay, 1706 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,960 Speaker 2: I got my own YouTube channel. I'm not playing around. 1707 01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:19,760 Speaker 2: I'm not gonnsider it. I will never ever ever in 1708 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:26,240 Speaker 2: life again sit around and wait praying that whether it's 1709 01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,240 Speaker 2: Disney and ESPN or somebody else praying that I get 1710 01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:33,120 Speaker 2: something from them. I'm going to make sure exhaust myself 1711 01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:36,160 Speaker 2: doing everything that I can to have something to offer. 1712 01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,439 Speaker 2: That way, if they don't want it, somebody else will. 1713 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:44,320 Speaker 2: And it absolutely positively breeds from what transpired to me 1714 01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:47,599 Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine. I woke up one day 1715 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,599 Speaker 2: and I had four jobs when I woke up that morning, 1716 01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:56,320 Speaker 2: and that afternoon I had zero. That will never ever 1717 01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,320 Speaker 2: happen to an unprepared stephen A. 1718 01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:00,000 Speaker 3: Smith again. 1719 01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,120 Speaker 2: It could happen to anybody. It could happen to me again, 1720 01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,519 Speaker 2: but not while I'm unprepared. I'm always going to be 1721 01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,880 Speaker 2: prepared to be gone. That's why I would change. That's 1722 01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,080 Speaker 2: why I started out Kick. That's why I started out 1723 01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:13,080 Speaker 2: Kick because I would. 1724 01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:15,360 Speaker 1: I didn't want to ever be in that position where 1725 01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,080 Speaker 1: somebody could sit across from me and say you're not 1726 01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,960 Speaker 1: employed anymore and I couldn't take care of my family. 1727 01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:24,160 Speaker 1: That was the reason. So I totally understand the motivation. 1728 01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,080 Speaker 1: Is it important to you? You mentioned Pat McAfee, and 1729 01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:30,880 Speaker 1: I always say, I root for everybody in media to 1730 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,839 Speaker 1: make more money on each new contract, just like probably 1731 01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,599 Speaker 1: every starting quarterback in the NFL roots for the guy 1732 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,880 Speaker 1: whose contracts up to make more. Heck, I hope you 1733 01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,080 Speaker 1: get unbelievable numbers. I hope I pick up the newspaper. 1734 01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:43,960 Speaker 1: I still like to read old school newspapers, and I 1735 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,479 Speaker 1: see how much money you got. Is it important to you, 1736 01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,280 Speaker 1: based on the way the first time ended at ESPN, 1737 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,519 Speaker 1: that you are the highest paid person on ESPN given 1738 01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:54,680 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing for them, do you think 1739 01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:55,719 Speaker 1: that should be the case. 1740 01:24:56,439 --> 01:25:00,679 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm not stuttering. Hell yes' apps soolutely true. 1741 01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:05,679 Speaker 2: Now, I respect the fact if they feel differently, it's 1742 01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,400 Speaker 2: not gonna be animosity. It's not gonna be something where 1743 01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:10,879 Speaker 2: I'm looking at them and I feel like I got screwed. 1744 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,280 Speaker 2: It's a business, and I understand that, and I'm a 1745 01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:17,439 Speaker 2: big boy, but I don't believe it's because of what 1746 01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,320 Speaker 2: transpired in two thousand and nine. That's what under the bridge. 1747 01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:22,160 Speaker 2: The same bosses that let me go, I'm friends with 1748 01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:24,840 Speaker 2: them now. They explained a lot. They highlighted for me 1749 01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:27,840 Speaker 2: what I did wrong, what role I played. My own 1750 01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,120 Speaker 2: mother looked me in the face and said, when are 1751 01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,559 Speaker 2: you gonna look at yourself? It's real easy to point 1752 01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:34,040 Speaker 2: the finger at them, but you're trying to tell me 1753 01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,599 Speaker 2: you didn't deserve You may not have deserved to be fired, 1754 01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,400 Speaker 2: but would you have wanted somebody like you working for 1755 01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:41,639 Speaker 2: you the way you may have acted towards your bosses 1756 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:43,680 Speaker 2: at that time in two thousand and nine. You are 1757 01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,719 Speaker 2: a bit out of control. So my own mother told 1758 01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,880 Speaker 2: me that. So I don't blame me ESPN for that. 1759 01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:53,160 Speaker 2: But here's the thing I've changed. I've changed for the better. 1760 01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,519 Speaker 2: I grew up and more importantly, I've mastered my own 1761 01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:01,439 Speaker 2: business in the world of sports televis Klay Travis. I've 1762 01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,280 Speaker 2: been number one for twelve years come April first, from 1763 01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,360 Speaker 2: more twelve consecutive years I've been number one. And not 1764 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,280 Speaker 2: only have I been number one every year, I've been 1765 01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,479 Speaker 2: number one every week and every month of every year 1766 01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,040 Speaker 2: for the last twelve years. 1767 01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:16,519 Speaker 3: You don't get to say that about too many people. 1768 01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,280 Speaker 2: I look at whether it's Pat McAfee, it's Mike Greenberg, 1769 01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,240 Speaker 2: it's Scott van Peld's, Troy Aikman, it's Joe Buck, it's 1770 01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,160 Speaker 2: Kirk curbs Street, the list goes on and on. I'm 1771 01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,479 Speaker 2: so honored to have the colleagues that I have that 1772 01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,360 Speaker 2: I work with at ESPN. Every day I look at 1773 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,680 Speaker 2: other people in the business. I got a bunch of 1774 01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,799 Speaker 2: friends at FS one, you know what, Michael Irvings, dire Key, Seawan, Skip, 1775 01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:38,480 Speaker 2: Richard Sherman. 1776 01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:39,760 Speaker 3: Rob Parker, Chris Sad. 1777 01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,760 Speaker 2: The list goes on and on, even Leshawn McCoy and 1778 01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:46,479 Speaker 2: Emmanuel Laccho and Joy Taylor with her fabulous self. The 1779 01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:48,400 Speaker 2: list goes on and on and on. But let me 1780 01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,080 Speaker 2: tell you something. I'm the one that's been number one, 1781 01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:53,760 Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it would be 1782 01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:58,040 Speaker 2: nice one day for this man to stand before everyone 1783 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,760 Speaker 2: and be like, this is not numberumber one, and this says. 1784 01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:02,519 Speaker 3: I'm number one. Now. 1785 01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:04,840 Speaker 2: One would argue that that may have been the case 1786 01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:07,360 Speaker 2: years ago before, because I got my money and then 1787 01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:10,360 Speaker 2: Troy Aikman. I'm sorry Troy if Tony Romo got his 1788 01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:12,720 Speaker 2: from CBS or whatever the case may be. 1789 01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,559 Speaker 3: But I'm not just a talent. I'm a business. 1790 01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,840 Speaker 2: I have my own production company, like you said, I've 1791 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,880 Speaker 2: got my own YouTube channel, I've got my own show. 1792 01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,680 Speaker 2: It's not even just a podcast, it's a show with 1793 01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,240 Speaker 2: a fully loaded television studio. That's what I built for myself. 1794 01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,960 Speaker 2: You know that can go linear or digital. The list 1795 01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:30,880 Speaker 2: goes on and on. I'm doing all of these things. 1796 01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:32,880 Speaker 2: I'm not doing all of that to be in second place. 1797 01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:34,720 Speaker 2: I'm not doing all of that to look up at 1798 01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:36,920 Speaker 2: somebody else and see that they're making more than me 1799 01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:41,640 Speaker 2: when I'm producing superior ratings and revenue. No, I'm not 1800 01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,519 Speaker 2: doing that, and I'm not apologizing for anybody for it. 1801 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:48,639 Speaker 2: So it's not I've been treated incredibly well by ESPN. 1802 01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,559 Speaker 2: I expect to continue to be well treated well by ESPN. Again, 1803 01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:55,360 Speaker 2: I've got great relationships and what have you. But this 1804 01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,080 Speaker 2: is a business, and Disney has a right to run 1805 01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,080 Speaker 2: his business the way it sees fit is does as well. 1806 01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:03,720 Speaker 2: But if they do, so do I. I hope that 1807 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,120 Speaker 2: we're able to work it out. I'm confident that we 1808 01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:08,000 Speaker 2: will because I'm incredibly happy there. 1809 01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:09,160 Speaker 3: But we'll see. 1810 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:11,920 Speaker 1: He's Stephen A. 1811 01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:12,439 Speaker 3: Smith. 1812 01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:14,840 Speaker 1: I always like to ask this question back when I 1813 01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,880 Speaker 1: practice law, and I always sound sometimes it led to 1814 01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,200 Speaker 1: really interesting answers and depositions. I'd say, last question, what 1815 01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,880 Speaker 1: did I not ask you that you wish I had? 1816 01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,559 Speaker 1: Asked that you'd like to be able to say to 1817 01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:29,360 Speaker 1: this audience, now, is there anything else out there that 1818 01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,479 Speaker 1: you think to an audience that may not be that 1819 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,040 Speaker 1: familiar with you, other than watching you occasionally on first 1820 01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:37,679 Speaker 1: take and having seen you over the years, what else 1821 01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:38,880 Speaker 1: do you wish they knew about you? 1822 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:43,519 Speaker 2: After all I've accomplished, what do I still dream about? 1823 01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:52,160 Speaker 2: And I have aspirations? Think Antoine Fuqua, who's the director 1824 01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:55,799 Speaker 2: and producers some of Denzel's films, The Equaliza, Antoine Fisher, 1825 01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:00,519 Speaker 2: Olympus Has Fallen, stuff like that. Think Jerry Bruck with 1826 01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:03,679 Speaker 2: some of the fabulous sensational work he's done over the years. 1827 01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,080 Speaker 2: Think about Dick Wolf, the fabulous incomparable Dick Wolf, stuff 1828 01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:10,600 Speaker 2: like that. Who knows whether I'll ever be blessed and 1829 01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,880 Speaker 2: fortunate enough to pull that off, But I do have a. 1830 01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,000 Speaker 3: Strong desire to build the content. I want to have 1831 01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:19,080 Speaker 3: my own network. 1832 01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:21,400 Speaker 2: I want to have my own production company where I'm 1833 01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:26,120 Speaker 2: doing scripted and unscripted content in both television and film. 1834 01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:28,920 Speaker 2: I do have an aspiration to do those things. And 1835 01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:32,400 Speaker 2: more importantly, you know, when you get to a certain point, Clay, 1836 01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,920 Speaker 2: and you get a certain age, you know it's not 1837 01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,639 Speaker 2: just the accomplishments that are important. It's the fact that 1838 01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:43,200 Speaker 2: you're able to benefit others along the way. When I 1839 01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,400 Speaker 2: think about Shannon Sharp coming into first take and I 1840 01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:52,840 Speaker 2: think about how great he's done, I'm prideful about that. 1841 01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:55,360 Speaker 2: I'm proud of them. I'm proud of Ryan Clark and 1842 01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:57,559 Speaker 2: what he's doing with inside the NFL. I'm proud of 1843 01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,719 Speaker 2: Marcus Spears and what he's doing on Money Day's NFL 1844 01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:03,760 Speaker 2: countdown to Dan Olowski calling Monday night football games and 1845 01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,000 Speaker 2: Mad Dog Russo telling me his career was resurrected because 1846 01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,080 Speaker 2: of me. I don't believe that for one second, because 1847 01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:11,800 Speaker 2: he's a Hall of Famer, but he's been fabulous. 1848 01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,880 Speaker 1: By the way you put together in a good team. 1849 01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I handpicked everybody, and so you know, the Molly Krum's, 1850 01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:23,559 Speaker 2: the Kimberly Martins, the Monica mcnutts, the Mina Comes. I'm 1851 01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,519 Speaker 2: just really really proud of this diversity as white, it's black, 1852 01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,479 Speaker 2: it's male, it's female. The list goes on and on, 1853 01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:32,160 Speaker 2: and to me, my goal is to make sure because 1854 01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:34,400 Speaker 2: I remember when I said this, I said, this is Swaghul, 1855 01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:35,320 Speaker 2: who's Marcus Spears. 1856 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:36,280 Speaker 3: I said it's Royan Clark. 1857 01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,000 Speaker 2: I said it to Shannon Shop I said, if you're 1858 01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:43,160 Speaker 2: not better off later than you were when you first arrived, 1859 01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:44,720 Speaker 2: I have failed you. 1860 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:47,960 Speaker 3: It's my job. I'm the point god for first take. 1861 01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:51,840 Speaker 2: It's my job to make sure that everybody succeeds, not 1862 01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,559 Speaker 2: just me, and that's what I aim to achieve. 1863 01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:55,719 Speaker 3: That's what I aim, no compass. 1864 01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:59,880 Speaker 1: Steven A. Smith's been fabulous. I know you're busy. We've 1865 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,760 Speaker 1: been talking about this for a while, but I think 1866 01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:03,760 Speaker 1: people are gonna love it. Thanks for having me on 1867 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,440 Speaker 1: your show, and thanks for returning the favor. 1868 01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:08,519 Speaker 2: Man, my pleasure man. All the best of you will 1869 01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:09,960 Speaker 2: talk soon. You take care of yourself, all right,