1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast, George

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,400
Speaker 1: nor with you, Gary Grossman with Us. His first novel,

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 1: Executive Actions, propelled him into the world of geopolitical thrillers

5
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:19,279
Speaker 1: Executive Treason, Executive Command, Executive Force. Old Earth further tapped

6
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 1: his experience as a journalist, newspaper columnist, media historian, and

7
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,799
Speaker 1: MBI Award winning television producer as well with many shows,

8
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 1: and then he wrote a couple of books Read Hotel

9
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 1: and Red Deception with Ed Fuller. Gary, welcome back, looking

10
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: forward to this, Thanks so much, George. Great to be back,

11
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,240
Speaker 1: and I tell you so once again like the old

12
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: DJ that I started as with the Vogues, you're the

13
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 1: one I spun that record back in Hudson, New York

14
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 1: as a DJ. I love it. That's a great song,

15
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 1: isn't it? Sure? Is? It brings back memories that absolutely

16
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 1: do they make music like that anymore? Not like that? No,

17
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 1: they do not. But great to be anyways, great book.

18
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 1: And as I was telling Ed, it is scary as

19
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: all get up. Well, you know, when you start thinking

20
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,119
Speaker 1: the unthinkable, you really can come up with what might

21
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 1: be unknowable to us, but it's sure knowable and doable

22
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: to other people. And sometimes those other people have real motives.

23
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 1: In the case of Red Hotel and now Red Deception,

24
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,640
Speaker 1: as Ed was talking about with you, it's a pretty

25
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: undisguised Vladimir Putin. Our character's name is Nikolay Gorshkoff, but

26
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: he is every bit drawn from the hard lines of

27
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: a KGB officer in the Cold War right through now

28
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,559
Speaker 1: the premier and the president of Russia with the hope

29
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: that he can rebuild that empire that Ed and you

30
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: talked about. It is a scary world. We just don't know,

31
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: and we have to think about all the possibilities that

32
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: there are, or hope that at least if we're not

33
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,040
Speaker 1: thinking about them, there are people who can do something

34
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: about it, who are thinking about did I see a

35
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 1: real story on the Internet or was it fake? Where

36
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: China is beefing up it's nuclear arsenal because of the

37
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: potential threats from US, China's beefing up everything. And again,

38
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 1: what we don't know, you can just imagine that what

39
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: you heard or what you saw is really the tip

40
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 1: of the iceberg they are building islands as we know

41
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: in the South China Sea, they have a navy that

42
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 1: is much bigger than ours, not as heavy as ours,

43
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 1: and in terms of you know, our number, they have

44
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,519
Speaker 1: more ships, but we've got more firepower. But they're building more.

45
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: They are in a land grab. A hundred years ago

46
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 1: they said what they want to do is control the world.

47
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 1: They're getting there there. They own part of the Panama

48
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: Canal now which we gave up, which which we gave up,

49
00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: We gave We absolutely gave it up. We absolutely did it.

50
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: And that's going to be in our in our next book.

51
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 1: In fact, Red Chaos will talk in another year. But

52
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,400
Speaker 1: even what Russia is doing in and I talk about

53
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 1: we're really facing We're not in the Cold War anymore,

54
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 1: but we have an ice cold war, and that ice

55
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 1: cold war is taking place in the Arctic, a warming

56
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: Arctic for sure, But Russia is there with a nuclear

57
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 1: powered icebreakers. China's building more icebreakers as well. What do

58
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 1: we have We have two icebreakers, one that's broken down

59
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: and one's in the Antarctic. Russia has nine nuclear powered icebreakers,

60
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,839
Speaker 1: thirty one others. Well, who's going to control that northern sea?

61
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: Root They are that's right. They are. Do you think

62
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: Russia and China truly can develop a workable alliance? Oh?

63
00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: I think that's the major question of our time. They're allies? No,

64
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 1: I'll put it this way, they're not really allies. I

65
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 1: think they're partners. They're able to partner on things like

66
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 1: gas and oil. Russia needs money, China needs oil. Well,

67
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 1: there's a great partnership. Would one attack the other? I

68
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040
Speaker 1: don't think they would attack each other. You know, that's

69
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 1: a good question for ed as well. I don't think

70
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 1: they would do that because their mutual interests are really interwoven.

71
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 1: If China were to attack then and their oil line

72
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,599
Speaker 1: dries up, where are they going to get the oil from?

73
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 1: Why can't we Why can't we have leaders, and I

74
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: mean across the board who get together with a glass

75
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 1: of beer or a wine and say, why don't we

76
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 1: build a planet that is unbelievable that helps people. Why

77
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,920
Speaker 1: can't we do that? Well? You and I grew up

78
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,359
Speaker 1: in a time when Gene Roddenberry was first doing Star Trek,

79
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 1: that's right, and we had the view of the world

80
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 1: that we had hoped the world, let alone the universe

81
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,280
Speaker 1: that was going to look like what Gene Roddenberry predicted.

82
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,400
Speaker 1: We would have the governments of Earth working together. We

83
00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 1: would explore arm in arm out into the universe. Yes,

84
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 1: there would be enemies there, but we would sit down

85
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 1: and we would talk with them. Well, even the Star

86
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: Trek of today that's on television is not the Star

87
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: Trek I think that Gene Roddenberry envisioned. It's really a darker,

88
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 1: uglier time. And you know, certainly as writers of thrillers,

89
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: we recognize that. I'll tell you, as a TV producer,

90
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: there's something I got completely wrong after nine to eleven.

91
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:47,160
Speaker 1: I thought wrongly that the public that we viewers, readers,

92
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: everybody would want to have lighter fare like people did

93
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: during the depression. You know, you don't want to go

94
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,159
Speaker 1: and see other people's problems. You want to be entertained

95
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: when you go to the movies. I got that totally

96
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,040
Speaker 1: wrong because that was really the launch of and the

97
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 1: rise of reality programming. And where did reality program come from?

98
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: Some of the reality arguments during the day on Jerry Springer,

99
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 1: and where did that lead to what we have in

100
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 1: Congress now? So will leaders sit down? I'm I'm not

101
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: optimistic about that, And especially when there's a leader like

102
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 1: Putin that we talk about and kind of even psychoanalyze

103
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: and try to get to an understanding of why does

104
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: he do the things he do? And if you're opposed

105
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: to him, look out. Oh, absolutely talk to Alexei Navalis

106
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 1: and other people. He's poisoned in England and how he

107
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,719
Speaker 1: must have had collusion with the capturing and the hit,

108
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 1: the kidnapping of the aeroplane that went to Belarus. Absolutely,

109
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 1: he is very predictable in a in a psychological way.

110
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 1: So how well will Biden do sitting down with him? Honestly,

111
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: I think it's about well. I think it's about showing

112
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 1: our hand at the front of it and the back

113
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 1: of it. Would Kennedy have handled this? Here? Another good question,

114
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:25,480
Speaker 1: good historical question that's probably something we'll never really know.

115
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 1: I think that he probably at that time in his

116
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: life had the vigor and the ideas and the sensibility

117
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,640
Speaker 1: to find solutions, but it still took what from Kennedy's

118
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: time until the fall of the Berlin Wall that was

119
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 1: another twenty six years, So I don't know. Those are

120
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: Those are the questions that as writers we have to

121
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 1: ask ourselves, and it's what makes good fiction. But when

122
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 1: we are able to jump from reality to fiction and

123
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 1: then back again and making people think just what we're

124
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: really trying to do in read deception, it can be

125
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 1: a wake up call. And Yeah, I wonder, I wonder

126
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 1: what he would have done, how they handled One of

127
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 1: my favorite books is Robert Kennedy's Thirteen Days about the

128
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:24,160
Speaker 1: Cuban missile crisis and how he and they dealt with that.

129
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: That's really worth reading. That's probably a George insight into

130
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: your question. And didn't Kruscheff admit to Kennedy this is

131
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,960
Speaker 1: beyond me that the my generals are going to be

132
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 1: in control of this if we don't get this settled.

133
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: Yes he did, and I'm sure you remember maybe other

134
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,080
Speaker 1: people as well. The route to solving the problem was

135
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 1: through an ABC newsman, John Scallly. John Scally was the

136
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,080
Speaker 1: intermediary who brought the message back between Russia and the

137
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,120
Speaker 1: United States that here was a solution, here was a

138
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: way for crustriff to back down without losing face. And

139
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 1: they used a reporter to do that. I mean, I

140
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 1: remember us doing these bomb fallout shelter drills in school,

141
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,319
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting outside of a locker on my butt

142
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 1: with my hands and over my knees in my head

143
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: thinking how is this going to stop me from a nuke?

144
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,679
Speaker 1: And guess what it wouldn't you know. What they said was, well,

145
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 1: you'll be protected from breaking glass. I'm sorry, the glass

146
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 1: is going to melt, yeah with me exactly. It's the

147
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 1: temperature is roughly one let's see one hundred million degrees

148
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,680
Speaker 1: celsius on an atomic bomb close by. Well, if that

149
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,560
Speaker 1: doesn't get you, certainly the radiation will. And everything that

150
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 1: we learned in the nineteen sixties and the fifties and

151
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: sixties about that it was all wrong. In the forties,

152
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: people were taught to watch the skies. They watched the

153
00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: skies for German planes and Japanese planes, and and watch

154
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 1: and look out for German submarines. In fact, Japanese sub

155
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 1: fired against Golida, California, and some shells landed. Japanese balloons

156
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,680
Speaker 1: landed in that were sent aloft. It took quite a

157
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,240
Speaker 1: long time for them to get to Washington State and

158
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 1: to Oregon, but they had incendiary devices in them. They

159
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,440
Speaker 1: landed and some of them blew up and started fires.

160
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 1: Then from that watching the skies it was duck and

161
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,439
Speaker 1: cover and hide. Well, we're a lot smarter now, we're

162
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 1: at least a lot smarter about what would happen. What

163
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 1: would happen if there's nuclear war? Is Putent capable of

164
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 1: launching one? Yes? Do we think as writers he's going

165
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 1: to do it? No? But will he one by one

166
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: look at the Baltic States very carefully? Will he move

167
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 1: further on Ukraine? And one by one, will China, as

168
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: you talk before, move into Taiwan. Will it create more

169
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 1: islands and challenge Japan. It's a matter of doing all

170
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 1: this one by one, and that's where it comes down

171
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 1: to what kind of muscle are we going to show?

172
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,679
Speaker 1: And what is the risk of even doing anything? Do

173
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 1: we have the appetite for it in this country? Would

174
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,920
Speaker 1: you be more concerned about Russia or China if you

175
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,680
Speaker 1: had to pick one? Ah, you're taking us from a

176
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 1: red Deception into our next book, Red Chaos, And those

177
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 1: keywords deception and chaos have a lot to do with it.

178
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:39,680
Speaker 1: We see Putin as more deceptive, We see China as

179
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 1: able as being able to create more chaos in the

180
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: long run. China in the long run, absolutely, China, Putin

181
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 1: and Russia don't have a rich company a country China does.

182
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,079
Speaker 1: Putin wants to be dictator for life. He's got to

183
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,880
Speaker 1: work at it a lot. China, he's dictator for life.

184
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 1: He is Putin respected in Russia or feared. I think

185
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 1: he's publicly respected because that's a lot safer way to live.

186
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,600
Speaker 1: I think he's despised quietly in the way that most

187
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,840
Speaker 1: dictators are. And there's not a lot people can do. No,

188
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 1: there really isn't. Do you think the military whatever? Cool?

189
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,559
Speaker 1: And oh, you're getting back to one of my important

190
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: books as a kid, Seven Days in May. Yeah. And

191
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 1: Burt Lancaster, absolutely, the movie was fabulous. Burt Lancaster behind

192
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,600
Speaker 1: a coup to act against the president of the United States,

193
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 1: who he feels is weak. Every couple of years I

194
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,880
Speaker 1: have to watch that film because it still feels so

195
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 1: present to me. Could there be a coup like that

196
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: in Russia? There could be. I don't know who is

197
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 1: ready to move up and control the country after you know,

198
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,400
Speaker 1: the bottom line, a lot of people just like to

199
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 1: be controlled and not have to make decisions. And when

200
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 1: you have Russia, which has virtually no history of democracy.

201
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: It was one of the problems with the Iraq War

202
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: we moved in and said, whoa, here you go, here's democracy,

203
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 1: and they said, well, we've been here seven thousand years.

204
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 1: What's democracy. If a population is not ready for that,

205
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 1: something may come in until the void, but then another

206
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,560
Speaker 1: power hungry despot is likely to step right in. I

207
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 1: had asked ed the question, are we prepared to do

208
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 1: anything as a nation against Russia if they take action

209
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 1: against Ukraine and China, if they take action against Taiwan,

210
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: both of which I think is a very real possibility. Well,

211
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: we didn't the last time when Putin took a step in,

212
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 1: a very large step in Crimea. I think Ed thinks

213
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: the next play is going to be one or more

214
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 1: of the Baltic nations, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. A lot

215
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 1: of those countries have a Russian population that in fact

216
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,320
Speaker 1: don't have the right to vote, particularly in Latvia and

217
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 1: the same way. I don't know if you've seen the

218
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 1: TV series yet. It's from Norway. It's called Occupied. It's

219
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful dramatic TV series. The Norwegians come up

220
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: with an alternate fuel source and Russia says that's not

221
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: going to be good for us, and they move in

222
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 1: with forces. Well, Putin could do the exact same thing

223
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: with Latvia easily. He has boasted that he could take

224
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 1: Kiev within two weeks. I think he's overstating that he

225
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: could take it in probably two or three days. How

226
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 1: quickly could we react to that? We couldn't. We couldn't exactly,

227
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure Gary, the American people have the

228
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 1: stomach for another kind of conflict, especially George, and one

229
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 1: where they can't even identify where the place is on

230
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 1: a map. Yeah, exactly. That is. So that really is

231
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: the bottom line, and you know, and that's that's again

232
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 1: the fun of us in writing Red Deception is we recognize,

233
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're creating these scenarios, but how much do

234
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 1: people really know about it? And what would we be

235
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: willing to do? You know, you talked a little bit

236
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 1: before about cyber attacks. We've got a tremendous ability to

237
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 1: counter attack. But are we going to flex the muscle?

238
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 1: Are we willing to do that? And maybe we already have,

239
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 1: maybe we have, We don't know, but right now we

240
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 1: look like a paper tiger. Listen to more Coast to

241
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go

242
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: to Coast to coast am dot com for more