1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: I believe we got a job to preserve democracy, but 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: I think we got the ticket a little step further. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: But other people in this country are saying the country 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: is on the wrong track. So we've got to show 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: them that we will put this country back on the 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: track making America's greatniss accessible and affordable for all. 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: So I just sat down with Congressman Jim Clyburn on 8 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: the same day that we learned of Jesse Jackson's passing. 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: We talked about Jesse Jackson, John Lewis, talk about the 10 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: history of the civil rights struggle, but also the history 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: of reconstruction and whether or not we are entering into 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: phase two of Jim pro This is Gavin Newsom, and 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 2: this is Congressman Jim Clyiber. Congressman, it's a pleasure to 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: have you here, particularly here in Sacramento and Ronald Reagan's 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: old mansion or Al Warrens old match. 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're warned as one of my favorites, as you 17 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: can imagine, having been governor of California. And the interesting 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: thing when I first started studying politics, I remember studying 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: a little bit about Earl Warren and it happened to 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: have had both the Democratic and Republican nominations. That made 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: it kind of interesting. And growing up in the household 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: my parents were Republicans, all members of the Party of Lincoln, 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: And of course I went Oway to college thinking maybe 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: I was too, and I was happening to be on 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: that campus. In the nineteen sixty election between Richard Nixon 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: and Robert F. Kennedy, it's the first time I really 27 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: got to understand how politics can be so different, even 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: within the house. Well, I'll always believe my mother voted 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: for Kennedy, and I will always believe my father voted 30 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: for Nixon. This is nineteen sixty. A lot of people 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: don't realize it, but twenty eight percent of the American 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: vote in nineteen sixty went to Richard Nixon. Interesting, and 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: the big transition did not take place until nineteen sixty 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: four when the Civil Attack of sixty four and then 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: the Wooden Right cycle of sixty five, those things drove 36 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: strong thuming than the others out of the Democratic Party, 37 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: and they took over the Republican Party that had been 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: basically African Americans. And so when people tell me about 39 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, you know, 40 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln. This and the Opraham Lincoln that he did 41 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: so much for African Americans. Yeah, as the sixteenth president, 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: but just remember Ruthall be Hayes. It was also a 43 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: Republican and it was he who initiated the biggest double 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: cross in African American history when he brought an end 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: to reconstruction. 46 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, I want to talk about all of that and 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 2: maybe reconstruct a little bit more about your history. And 48 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: I love a little bit of history in the Glens 49 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: and to your mom and dad. You know, all that 50 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: history was made in South Carolina where you were born. 51 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: And it's interesting today a little bit of history has 52 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: been marked by the loss of Jesse Jackson, Greenville, South Carolrolina. 53 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: Justs and I go back to high school. He was 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: at Sterling High School in Greenville. I graduated from Mather 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: Academy in Camden, and we played against each other in football. 56 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: I was nowhere near the football player that Jesse was. 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: Jesse was an exceptional athlete. A lot of people don't 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: realize that great quarterback. 59 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: He was a three letters football, baseball, basketball as well. 60 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: Right, so I played all the sports, but the one 61 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: the way the colleges on the football Scoltip went up 62 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: to Illinois first, and then from there he went to 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: North Coliny and T and I often saying we used 64 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: to talk about this a lot, that we were rivals 65 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: in high school, and we were rivals in college because 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: nothing on A and T in South Carolina State, where 67 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 1: I went, we weren't particularly fond of each other when 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: it came to sports. His mother was on the biggest supporters. 69 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: He really helped launch my political career. And so Jesse 70 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: suffered a long time with the Parkinson's and other ancillary things. 71 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: And now you look at this and talking with Jonathan, 72 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: I know how that is because I went through the 73 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: same thing with my late wife. 74 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: You married fifty eight years, fifty eight years. 75 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: We were hired, and for thirty of those years she 76 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: battled diabetes. 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: I love the story of the two you guys met 78 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: in jail. 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: In jail. True story, huh, true story, true story? What 80 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: were you both doing in jail? March fifteen, nineteen sixty 81 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: we had this big march, you know, the city in 82 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: started on February one, nineteen sixty, up in Greensboro, North Carolina, 83 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: and on February fifteenth, those of us at South Carolina 84 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: State and Clafformd University attempted to sit in, but they 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: had removed all the stools out of the shcrest. Then, 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: so we went back to the campus and we started organizing, 87 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: and we organized this big march that took place in 88 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: March fifteenth, nineteen sixty and of course we got arrested. Well, 89 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: they'd be full up all the jails, and the jails 90 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: could not they had no room for people. They started 91 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: herding all the students back to the campuses. Well, they 92 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: got into the cafeteria to bring us food, and I'm 93 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: sitting there in jail waiting to get bailed out. We 94 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: had all been gathered in one spot to be bailed out, 95 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: but they were kind of laxed with everything else. And 96 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: so those students who had gotten into the cafeteria brought 97 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: some food to us at the jail, and then they 98 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: walked toward me with this hamburger in the hands. I 99 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: really didn't know her at the time. I reached for 100 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: the hamburger. She broke it in half. Give me a 101 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: half hamburger. She had the other half. I was so 102 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: grateful for the half hamburger. I'm mad. Or eighteen months later, 103 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: how old were you at the time both of you 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: we got married. I was twenty yeah, she was twenty one. Okay, 105 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: well that's respectful. Oh yeah, she always said she was 106 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: a cougar. 107 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, so it's interesting just going back. 108 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: I mean, the march is another mind. 109 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: I mean, so much of Jesse jackson life is sort 110 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: of you know, that is the marches, the advocacy, you know, 111 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: despite the runs for elected office, so much of his 112 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: life and legacy is defined by what he did out 113 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: of office. You chose a very different path. You chose 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: to develop strategies from within. 115 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: Was that intentional? 116 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: Is that by design or was it just by happenstance. 117 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know, even back when I was doing Citians 118 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: and stuff, for some strange reason, there was a little 119 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: group they would call There was seven of us, four 120 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: from South Carolina State, three from next door, a client 121 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: from We were the so called Ramsberg seven. We were 122 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: the leaders and when we were meet especially at Rales, 123 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: they always asked me to do the implication. And whenever 124 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: it came time to negotiate with authorities, I was always 125 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: asked to lead those negotiations. Even the president of South 126 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: Kron State when things got real bad and he refused 127 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: to meet with the students. He agreed to meet with me, 128 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: and they blessed that meeting, and so I sat down 129 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: to the president. So it just got to be the 130 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: point where people just said, you are negotiated, you did this, 131 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: and so that's what happened. And so I just developed 132 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: that motule. And so when it came to running for office, 133 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: I didn't spend a whole lot of time yelling and 134 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: raising ca and I I try to find a way 135 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: to create an atmosphere that allowed me to do a 136 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: deal when one was possible. And so I'll do the 137 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: same thing today. I give speeches. I try not to 138 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: call names. I think it's insulting. I don't want to 139 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: be insulted, so I try not to insult others. I 140 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: do try to make my point, but I try to 141 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: do it in such a way that you will accept 142 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: the fact that you need to think about what you 143 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: just said or just did. 144 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 2: We were talking right before we went on air, a 145 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: little bit about your dad, and we were talking about 146 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: your time running the NAACP is a twelve year old 147 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: and I have. 148 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: That was the youth counsel. 149 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: Youth counsel, but I mean the idea that anybody's in 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: a leadership position at twelve years old. 151 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: I got to I have a twelve year old. 152 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: She's remarkable, but it's a you know that's that's a 153 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: remarkable thing, and it's up to me. What marked this 154 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: question is how your father, who was a preacher, had 155 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: certain expectations of a twelve year old. That was a 156 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: time of life, and you had to develop a state 157 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: of mind, yeah, of accountability, responsibility. 158 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: Well, my dad used to preach as often from the 159 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: Old Testament as he did from than New, and I 160 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: developed favorite scriptures because my dad had two rules in 161 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: our house, well more than two, but two of the 162 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: rules had to do with our studies. First one was 163 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: every morning at breakfast, we had to recite a Bible 164 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: verse and you couldn't say the same one twice. And 165 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: every evening before retiring to bed, we had to share 166 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: with him and my mother a current event. And we 167 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: didn't have television, but the newspapers delivered to our house 168 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: every afternoon, and we had to read that newspaper in 169 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: order to really share current events. So I grew up 170 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: doing that. And my dad had this thing about the 171 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: age of responsibility, and that was twelve and that came 172 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: from the story of Jesus assuming responsibility at the age 173 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: of twelve. I mean, that's what there was grounded in. 174 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: So you grew up with that. And so here we 175 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: are in the early fifties, and things were beginning to happen, 176 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: segregation being challenged, and activities that led up to the 177 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty fourth Supreme Court. We were involving those things. 178 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: And the people who started that in Cladland County, South Carolina, 179 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: twenty three miles away, Reverend J. Aided Lane was a 180 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: good friend of my dad, and so we just grew 181 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: up in this stuff. And by the time I went 182 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: away to college, I graduated high school at age of sixteen, 183 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: and I get to college and all of a sudden 184 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: things begin that happened in college campuses. So here I 185 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: was nineteen years old. John Luce and I met as 186 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: nineteen year old college students. We were both in the 187 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: Student Non Violent Courtinating Committee commonly called SNICK. I met 188 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: him and Martin Luther King Junior on the same day, 189 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: March of nineteen sixty I saw we met in October. 190 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: We started SNICK in March May of nineteen sixty on 191 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: Shaw University's campus in North Carolina. But the second meeting, 192 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: the organizing meeting that took place on the campus of 193 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Moles College, those events just changed my life. In fact, 194 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: that meeting with King was over a disagreement between the 195 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: oldsters and the youngsters. To find that oldsters versus the youngsters. Yeah, 196 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: King was preaching nonviolence and all of us were practicing nonviolence. 197 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: The King was also preaching disobeying unjust laws and paying 198 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: the price for it, and we thought that he wasn't 199 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: demonstrating enough leadership in that particular category. In fact, if 200 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: you go back and check a lot of people of 201 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: laughing at the number of people who checked this out, 202 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: the big event that turned the nineteen sixty president of 203 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: the election. And I bet you've not heard this men 204 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: about it because people, I don't think really focus on this. 205 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: In October of nineteen sixty when we had that meeting. 206 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: It was after that meeting on more House Gard's campus 207 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: that King went to jail the following week in Georgia. 208 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: And it was while he was in judge And I 209 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: remember what's going on in nineteen sixty you got a 210 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: big presidentcy election going on, being John F. Kennedy, Yes, 211 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: and Richard Nixon. And this was October the fifteenth, three 212 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: weeks before the election. That jail visit prompt a phone call. 213 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: The phone call, that's right, the phone call, the infamous 214 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: phone call. 215 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: The infamous phone call from John F. 216 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: Kennedy to missus King, against all kinds of advice. 217 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: Do you have to do it, sir, do not do it. 218 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely that changed that election. 219 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: You really feel that I've had a lot of speculation, 220 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: but to hear from you, that's really interesting. 221 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely changed that election. I tell people all the time, 222 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: going into that election, if you look at the polling, 223 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon was getting the job of the black vote. 224 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: Even afterwards, twenty eight percent of that vote still went 225 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: to Richard Nixon. 226 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: But it sent a message the Centermity was willing to 227 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: take a risk, do the right thing. 228 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: And I'll always believe that in spite of what was 229 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: done back in nineteen forty eight, Harry Truman, what he 230 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: did in nineteen forty eight when he integrated the armed 231 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: services when Franklin Roosevelt has refused to do so. It 232 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: was Truman was the first president to address the National 233 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: Convention of the NAACP those moves on this path. It 234 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: was Truman who introduced the first resolution to create civil 235 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: rights committees to look at this stuff. That started in 236 00:14:54,680 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight, but it all culminated with Linda Johnson's 237 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: election nineteen sixty four. That's when Thurman took his second 238 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: exit from the Democratic Party, and that's when all of 239 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: the shifts began to take place, when the Democratic Party 240 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: made the decision that you and many others have decided 241 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: to amplify that we are going to be the party 242 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: of democracy and dignity. And so these two d's were 243 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: very important to the people. It's one thing to talk 244 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: about democracy, is something else to talk about dignity. And 245 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: what was going on in the sixties as related the 246 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: civil rights, what was going on with the Brown v. 247 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: Vote of education, says, was a search for dignity. 248 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: I want to come back to that because I think 249 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: it's powerful and we don't talk about that enough. Democracy 250 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: we talked, and we should be talking as much and 251 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: more about. 252 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: But dignity not enough. 253 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: But I want to go back just at the time 254 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: because I and forgive me, I want to also dignify 255 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: your visit a little bit by trying to understand just 256 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: I love the you know, meeting John Lewis meeting Martin 257 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: Luther King. You're contemporary of all these folks, yeah, Jesse Jackson, 258 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: all these folks. 259 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean there's so were they, you. 260 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: Know for someone like me sitting back, I mean we 261 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: look at these people and obviously in appropriately reverential terms, 262 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: as we do you, but as a living testament to that. 263 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: But at the time, who were I mean, was it 264 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: defined by I mean it was just situational. Did you 265 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: have a sense of who you were with and becoming 266 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: was there and expected? I mean, was John Lewis, John Lewis, 267 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: then Martin Luther King? Martin Luther King then? 268 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: No? No, I mean mean New King was special. Yeah, 269 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: there's no question about that. And we treated him, treated 270 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: him that way. A lot of us near that John 271 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: Lewis was special John, it was internalized King's teachings. A 272 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: lot of us practiced it. I was one of those 273 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: who practiced nonviolence. I never lived nonviolence as John did. 274 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: Even when we were serving together in Congress. John said 275 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: to me one day, is you know I never dreamed 276 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: that we would be here in this place. We were 277 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: sitting near the back of the chamber one day the 278 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: House chamber when he talked about that, and it's kind 279 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: of interesting. For some reason, John never had a real 280 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: define players to sit on the floor. I did, and 281 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: still do. People know where to find me on the floor. John, 282 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: it was always among people, most often on our side 283 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: of the ore. But there's nothing usu for him to 284 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: sit down with somebody on the other side of they are. 285 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: And so John and I had this friendship that a 286 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: lot of people in the Congress did not really know about. 287 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: And it's kind of in the same age where he 288 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: was a few months older, and we both married librarians. 289 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: Lillian was a librarian, and Lilian and Emily became fast friends. 290 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: Nice and John and I talked often. In fact, I 291 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: spoke with him in just a few hours before he 292 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: passed away the night or the late afternoon that he 293 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: was going to leave go home. He knew he wasn't 294 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: coming back. He called me to the back of the chamber. 295 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: One thing we said to that day. He said to me, 296 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: I said, never forget this. He says, you know, I'm 297 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: a fred that what is taken place here today is 298 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: reminiscent of what happened to us with Baron. Baby Baron. 299 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: He said, defund the police. It's going to do to 300 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: our party, but Baron baby Barn did through our movement, 301 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: and in so many words, you said to me, we 302 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: should not let that happen. And a lot of people 303 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: ask when I made a public statement that UH, defund 304 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: the police was not in the best interest of our 305 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: party uh, And a lot of people asked me, why 306 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: did I do that? John asked me to. 307 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: And he understood that just intuitively on that basis of 308 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 2: that experience. What was I may I ask, I can't help. 309 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 2: I mean, it's private, and I appreciate if you dismiss it. 310 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: What what You've talked to him right before he passed? 311 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: What was what was that conversation? 312 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: Like, Well, it was more me talking to him because 313 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: a rumor gotten out the John had passed away, and 314 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. So I called him chiefs 315 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: of staff and I said to him, I said, yeah, 316 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: I've gotten a several calls said John had passed away. 317 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: I said, if you heard anything from Michael, it's cheap. 318 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: He says, no, that can't be true. I said, called 319 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: Michael and check on the phone. So he did, and 320 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: he called me back. He said, no, I just talked 321 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: to Michael. John has not passed away, said something about okay. 322 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: He said, well, Michael wants you to call him. So 323 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: I called Michael and told him what I had heard. 324 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: I said, please tell John that I'm thinking about him, 325 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: praying for him. He said, well, he's he's away, why 326 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: don't you tell him? And that's what it was. So 327 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: he put the phone next to his ear in the 328 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: cuilding and I could barely hear him, but I just 329 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: told him how much I loved him, ended I was 330 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: thinking about praying for him, And that was it to us, 331 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: me really talking to him. I love it. When was 332 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: the last time he talked to Jesse Jackson? You know, 333 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: Jesse called me, but Jesse a couple of weeks ago, uh, 334 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: and I talked to Jonathan a whole lot about it. UH. 335 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: And Jesse's body guy is the son of one of 336 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: my classmates from college. John was my classmate. John's son, 337 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: Uh was Jesse's body guy right now? Now. He called 338 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: me last week and I tried to call him back, 339 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: and I did not get him. But I talked with Jonathan. Uh. 340 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: And Jonason's spending a lot of time me in South Carolina, 341 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: and so we kind of, uh just chatted about his dad. 342 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: But you know, you don't get too deep in those 343 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: things because everybody knows what's going to happen, and you know, 344 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: knows jack about to say you your dad was proud 345 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: that you got into politics. I think so. I know 346 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: my mother was. My mother was extremely proud. My dad 347 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: was more reticent about politics than my mother, but he 348 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: he was conflicted when we got in the Citians. My 349 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: dad was not too sure about the Citians. 350 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 2: Worried about your safety, worried that it was going too far, worried. 351 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: Well, he is more old school. I think my dad 352 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: would probably never say it, but I do believe that 353 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: he had accepted the separation of the racist way. My 354 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: mother never did, and so I was always there. He'd 355 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: never opposed anything I was doing, so was supported what 356 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: we were doing. But in the conversations my two brothers 357 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: and I knew that he wasn't all that I did 358 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: about what we were doing. My mother was. She was 359 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: one of the biggest fundraisers for the ACP. It was 360 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: the biggest in our hometown, and she became the first 361 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: in the ACP Woman of the Year back they started 362 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: real serious fundraising. She was the Woman of the Year 363 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: well because of how much money she was raising. They 364 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with being anything else. You were. 365 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: Before you were in politics, you were someone else. You 366 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: were not only in the nasap yourself in junior capacity 367 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 2: at twelve years old, but then you went on. You 368 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 2: were a teacher. And I love, by the way, I'm 369 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 2: going to get your book. I love that it begins 370 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: with two of your students right the forward, which is 371 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: wonderful on so many levels. 372 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: But then you were also, you know, an activist of 373 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: sorts in. 374 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: Terms of just youth organizations and economic empowerment and the like. 375 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 2: But you got into politics by the way of the 376 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: governor working in the governor's office talk a little bit 377 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: that that for office. 378 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy round for the state legislature, and it 379 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: was declared the winner at around ten o'clock in the 380 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: evening at this big celebration round three thirty. The next morning, 381 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: I got this missic for a TV reporter. He said, 382 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: you better get down to the courthouse. I just left 383 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: the courthouse and something's going wrong with this count. My 384 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: wife and I were down there, and sure enough they 385 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: told me, rather than being the five on the vote winner, 386 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: I was a five in the vote loser, somebody adding 387 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: up the votes forgot to carry on one. Okay, So 388 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: that was a verdict. And so when I got my 389 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: office that day, I got this phone call from a 390 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: reporter never so forget Barbara Williams will become the editor 391 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: of the Charleston Post and Courier. So Barbara asked me 392 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: what happened. And for the life of me, I cannot 393 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: put it on anything but a background. But I was 394 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: taught and something Emily said to me earlier that year, 395 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: and she asked me what happened. I says, it looks 396 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: like I didn't get enough votes. And she says, oh, Climburn, 397 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: you know what everybody is saying. What do you think 398 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: really happened? I says, I should have gotten some more votes. 399 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: I didn't get enough. So the next morning, this is 400 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: Wednesday after the election, Thursday morning, newspapers coming out, I 401 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: didn't get enough votes. In quotes, John Lewis had just 402 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: gotten elected governor. In that I'm a John West. John 403 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: West has just gotten elected governor that day. It's the 404 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: same ballot. Interesting, yeah, and he was on his way 405 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: to Kiwa. Fish back then was a hunting preserved nothing 406 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: like it was what the day and he was going 407 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: out there too, R and R with friends, and he 408 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: stopped in Cholson and picked up a newspaper. When he 409 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: saw that and called my house and I wasn't at home. 410 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: He told my wife and gave her his fun He said, 411 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: asked me to call him. So I called him, and 412 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: he said, can you meet me in Columbia Monday morning? 413 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: This is Thursday, And that's what I think I can. 414 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: And when I met with him, he said to me, 415 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: we will not leave our wounded on the battle. I 416 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: want you to consider come working for me. That's two days. 417 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: And so I said to him, I said, well, Governor, 418 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I says, you know, I'm a 419 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: little too much of the activist to be in office. 420 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: And he looked at me and said these words. He said, 421 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, if I were black with your talent, I'll 422 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: be much more of the activist than you are. And 423 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: it kind of seemed there, and so I accepted the 424 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: job and the rest of history. You were how old then? 425 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: I was thirty years old? Thirty years old? 426 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: And you were there for how many years in the 427 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 2: governor's office? 428 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: Oh, I was there for three years, in about ten months. 429 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: Three years ten months. What happened three years and eleven months. 430 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: He named me to run the state agency, and that 431 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: state agency, the state Team and the first commission I 432 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: became the commissioner of that and I was there for 433 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: almost eighteen years. I retired from state government from that 434 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: job to run for Congress. And of course it was 435 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: that year that we had this big shift. Oh yeah, 436 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: in the in the South. It's the year of that 437 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: John Lewis got a elected. We didn't have anything by 438 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: elected from Florida. There was one from Georgia. No blacks 439 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: elected from North Carolina. And this is in nineteen ninety two. 440 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: The election was in that election and we all met 441 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: in fact, Ben and Thompson, Bobby Scott from Virginia, Stamford 442 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: Bishop from Georgia. We were all in that class. And 443 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: there were five of us running in South Carolina. And 444 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: I was told that I had no chance to win. 445 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: That there were two state senators running all four of 446 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: the candidates. Other candidates were elected officials, and one of 447 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: them would certainly win. Well. When the county was over 448 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: this time, I had fifty six percent by my lawnsome uh, 449 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: and the other four she had for the percent do. 450 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: You remember the campaign, You remember the why? What was 451 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: the motivation, what was the issue? What was when people 452 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 2: said why are you running for Congress? 453 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: You remember I have always said in more wage than one, 454 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: But I've got that all balled down to one bumper sticker. 455 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: It was really a billboard making America's greatness accessible and 456 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: affordable for all. That's been the theme from the beginning, 457 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: from the beginning, and my late wife insisted that every 458 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: time I ran, she wanted to see billboards. Just I 459 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: don't care how many TV as you do. I don't 460 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: care how many radio as you do. I won't see physically. 461 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, because she wanted what did you to 462 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: distill the essence of the world? I've asked her. She 463 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: didn't for some reason. I don't think she felt that 464 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: the political campaign should be She's a librarian, remember, and 465 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: so all this new fangled stuff. She wanted people driving 466 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: down the highway that misses making the America's greatness accessible 467 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: and affordable for all. And that was on the billboard. 468 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Yes it's still on my bill box. 469 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: But it's I mean, even if it was a different reason, 470 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I love that, I mean that she wanted 471 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: to see it but it also forced you forced me 472 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: to distill. 473 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, which and that's almost everything. Everything is 474 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: focused on that. Everybody says, you know, I'm on the 475 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: Appropriations Committee, and it says, and I am the ranking 476 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: member on Transportation and HUD and my whole thing is 477 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: what can I do in this account to make transportation 478 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: more accessible than affordable, to make housing more accessible than 479 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: a fable it I in fact, if you look back 480 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: and look at the so called broadband bill that became 481 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: this big thing with sixty five billion or so, I 482 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: recalled sixty five billion. Yeah. Now when I passed the House, 483 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: it was ninety five billions, Okay, sixty five bill. But 484 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: the name of that bill is making broadband accessible an 485 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: a photoble. So I love it. I put it on 486 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: everything I can. You know, I've got this other thing 487 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: that a lot of people UH are enamored with that 488 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: I call ten twenty thirty yep. And that is they 489 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: say that we classify UH counties in this country basement 490 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: what we call persistent poverty counters Now by five from 491 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: the UH, we're between four sixty and five from the counters. 492 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: Every time the censors come out, they classify these counts 493 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: as persistent poverty counters and so I've always maintained and 494 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: I've got it in seventeen appropriations accounts something I called 495 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: ten twenty thirty. And then they say a county is 496 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: considered to be in persistent poverty when twenty percent of 497 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: more of the population was stuck within the power level 498 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: for thirty years. And so I say, we are a 499 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: direct or target at least ten percent of all the 500 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: money in this account into those counts. So ten percent 501 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: of the money should go over twenty percent of more 502 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: of the population. They have been stuck for thirty years, 503 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: so in the power level for thirty years. So that's 504 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: what I do with all the stuff, trying to do 505 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: things in such a way. And I'll tell you something else. 506 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: And people says, oh, is that you only focus on 507 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: black people. Well, twenty percent of the mother population. And I 508 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: say the black population. And if you look at that, 509 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: two thirds of the countess that fall into this category 510 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: or represented by Republicans, and they ain't black in Kentucky, 511 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: for instance, they're going to be white throughout that poleture. 512 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: If you're in Alaska, there could be Native Americans. If 513 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: you're in New Mexico. You're in California, I mean, yeah, 514 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: white and Hispanic absolutely, yep, absolutely. So this is about 515 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: targeting resources into communities of need. And I emphasize all 516 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: of that and the fact that you're picking up only 517 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: a third of them happening to be African American. So 518 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: what that one third will not give attention if we 519 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: didn't do it, So why do I care about two thirds? Again, 520 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: so long as we pick up the communities of need. 521 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: So there's nothing about that as racial. Is all about 522 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: using the resources we're have in this country. So that 523 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: everybody think about this. When the FCC used to classify 524 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: broadband coverage, they did it by census tracks, and that 525 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: one residence in a community had broadband, the entire census 526 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: tract would be considered as covered. Now, the reason I 527 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: was so insulted by that, now, my daughter was on 528 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: the f C. See, so she's the one that first 529 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: schooled meet to this. Because I didn't know about this. 530 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: She thought it was a real insult. And her thing was, Daddy, 531 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: we down there living where all these plantations were, and 532 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: when the big house gets connected, all the little houses 533 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: around it ain't got no connection. But according to the 534 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: FCC that entire census tract is connected. So that's the 535 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. We've had these kinds of things going 536 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: on in government for a long time, and so that's 537 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: why I we need to focus people's attention on what 538 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: this means. So why would you ignore the census tract? 539 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: It's covered? I copied. Then why it's covered because the 540 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: big house got covered. 541 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 2: Well that leads me focusing a little bit more on 542 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 2: this book, which, by the way, I loved and is 543 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 2: what a history lesson and what a reminder, but history 544 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 2: of the lens not only your personal biography, a little 545 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 2: bit memoir in history, and you bring it to light, 546 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 2: particularly in the epilogue about where we are today and 547 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 2: connects a little bit of that dot, but also through 548 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 2: South Carolina and just reconstruction a little you know, a 549 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: little bit earlier than some. 550 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: Had maybe believed. 551 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 2: But I want to just make a deeper point, and 552 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: that is many people believe in you write about this 553 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: in your book that you were the first black representative 554 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: when you were elected in ninety two is sworn in 555 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 2: nineteen niney three, that was not the case. And in 556 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: so little ways and inspired you writing. 557 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: This book made me start the right end of the book. 558 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: But when I got halfway through it, thought I was 559 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: halfway twenty twenty election came about. The reaction to that election, 560 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: and the front called down to Georgia, find me eleven thousand, 561 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: seven hundred and eighty votes. I saw what was going on. 562 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 1: I saw that the attempt was being made to treat 563 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election the way the eighteen seventy sixth 564 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: election was treated. And there was that eighteen seventy sixth 565 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: election and the aftermath that led to the end of 566 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: the careers of these eight African Americans, as well as 567 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: all other African Americans throughout the South, and led to 568 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: the fact that they are ninety five years between number 569 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: eight and it was truly number nine and so. And 570 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: then what I emphasized in this book and what I 571 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: wish people would get from this book is the importance 572 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: of respecting history, because you must know that anything that's 573 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: happened before can happen again. How many times have we 574 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: heard people refer to the student movement of the nineteen 575 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: the sixties as men the second reconstruction. The only way 576 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: you're going to have a second reconstruction is for the 577 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: first one to come to an end. And so the 578 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: first reconstruction come to an end, why not the second 579 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: reconstruction come to an end? And that's what I think 580 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: is under a way, And so the book is about 581 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: saying that people be careful of this. And then remember 582 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: there was no big wave over the country that led 583 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: to the end and of reconstruction. Reconstruction came to an 584 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: end by a vote of eight to seven. One vote 585 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: brought an end to reconstruction. Jim Crow became the law 586 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: of the land by an Electoral College vote of one 587 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: eighty five to one eighty four. The difference was one vote. 588 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: Samuel Tilden had one eighty four. Brother b. Hayes had 589 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: one eighty five. Why did that happen? Because when the 590 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: voting was over and Tilden had one eighty four, he 591 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: needed one eighty five. Brother Hayes had one sixty five, 592 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: and there were twenty dispirited votes sitting in three states Florida, Louisiana, 593 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: and South Carolina. And when the House of Representatives couldn't 594 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: figure out what to do, they appointed the fifteen member 595 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: Commission to study the issue of meeting with the candidates 596 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: and make a recommendation that fifteen member Commission voted eight 597 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: to seven. That was to give those twenty votes to Hayes. 598 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: Why becausey has told them give me these votes bringing 599 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: the into reconstruction. That's what you went in Florida. That's 600 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: what you went in Louisiana. That's what you went in 601 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: South Carolina. They gave him the twin of votes. He 602 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: brought an endo reconstruction. One month after he was sworn in, 603 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: he removed all the troops from the South and allowed 604 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: Jim Crow to become the law of the land. And 605 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: that lasted for nearly one hundred years. 606 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 2: You write about it's interesting you write briefly about what 607 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 2: you just said that you were in the process, I 608 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 2: think in the introduction where you talk about him two 609 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 2: years into this book and all of a sudden you 610 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 2: were reflecting on January sixth as well in your own 611 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 2: personal experience relations to that, not just what happened down 612 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: with the Secretary of State in Georgia. You reflect as 613 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: you were getting sworn in, or not just sworn in, 614 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 2: but as you spent your time in the capital, that 615 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: there was no reference to reigning the first African American. 616 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: There's nothing you can find, and so you started, you know, 617 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 2: to apply even before you write the book years and 618 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 2: years ago. You said a lot of respect, absolutely, these 619 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 2: respects you've started to put there, especially when you get 620 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: a majority leader out a little bit more power in 621 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: that respect. He said, let's let's start to celebrate these 622 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 2: fun Yeah. 623 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I introduced a resolution to put a portrait of 624 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: Rennie in the Capitol building, and we were successful in 625 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: doing that. And then on this one hundred and fifty, 626 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty, the universary of him having been 627 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: sworn in. He was sworn into the House of Representatives 628 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: on December twelfth, eighteen seventy, and so on the one 629 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth year, we put up another resolution to 630 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: have a room in the capital name in his honor, 631 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: and so on the first four of that copper room 632 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: one fifty oh his name for Joseph Rennie. So you know, 633 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time with trying to make history. 634 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: I think rhymes on his own, but sometimes I try 635 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: to strike up a tune. They helped it. You have 636 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: the rhythm a little bit. So that's one of the 637 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: things I've done. 638 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: But you said something, and I hope everybody picked up 639 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 2: on it. I ampi fhied a little bit more this. 640 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 2: You know, when Reconstruction ended, and you can argue the 641 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 2: sort of traditional prison eighteen sixty five what to eighteen 642 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,720 Speaker 2: seventy seven, and then the establishment of these crow laws 643 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,479 Speaker 2: and you know, poll taxes, and I mean the voter 644 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 2: registration issues, not just ID issues. And we can get 645 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 2: to that a little bit more Save Act and it 646 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 2: goes to this point you made in the question I 647 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 2: want to offer. You talked about the second Reconstruction potentially 648 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: coming to an end, and I mean, do you feel 649 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: like we're in that moment today in vivid terms? I mean, 650 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 2: you talk about the red Shirts becoming the red Hats, 651 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 2: You talk about, you know, redeemer Democrats. You talk a 652 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: lot about the contours of today, rewriting history, sensory historical facts. 653 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 2: You reference CRT, THEI I'll add ESG and you know 654 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 2: all the anti woke, which seems to me pretty much 655 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 2: anti black. So the one thing that has in common 656 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 2: so much of that rhetoric. 657 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: I mean, do you how concerned? 658 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 2: Are you very much a moment where in absolutely think 659 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 2: it's hyperbolic? Do you think we're overstating or do you 660 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 2: feel like there's no way God bless. 661 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: It's not hyperbolic to say it. We are in the 662 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,919 Speaker 1: throws of trending the clock back, and you mentioned voter 663 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,479 Speaker 1: registration and voter I D. And we've seen the House 664 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: just pass a law on vote I D. I want 665 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: somebody explained to me, why is it when these states 666 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: to put the stuff in. Why is it when they 667 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: started talking about what phams of I D would be accepted. Yep, 668 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: in the hunting license, thank you would be accepted. You'll 669 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: pitch it on the hunting I said, will be accepted 670 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: as ID. But your picture on a student activity card 671 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: will not be accepted. Correct. Somebody explained that to me. 672 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: And so when you tell me if I vote ID, 673 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: and I say to people all the time, and they 674 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: try to twistle this around, I have never voted when 675 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: I did not ID myself because the moment I present 676 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: my registration card as I always do when I vote, 677 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 1: that is my ID. So now you're saying that's not 678 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: good enough. It's been good enough for all these years, 679 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: but not good enough now. And so when you come 680 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: up with all of these forms of ID, it's where 681 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: the problem is. And so I'm telling people all the time, 682 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: don't tell me because I object to this law that 683 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: they're trying to pass that against ID. I am not 684 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: against ID in yourself to vote. I am against your 685 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: telling me that the ID that I'm more apt to 686 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: have in my possession will be no good. But the 687 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: I D that someone else has, like a hunting license. 688 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: And you compare the number black people with the hunting 689 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: license I supposed to white people with the hunting license? 690 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: How many black people? But you're these things that white 691 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:27,800 Speaker 1: people possess, uh, who travel, who use various IDs for travel. 692 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: Uh Okay, these things we just have to just call 693 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: them out. Yep. So no, that's not what this is. Uh. 694 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: Let's talk about what I D you would would have 695 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: that you don't have to pay for. Don't put a 696 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: poll tax on this. Don't say to this senior citizen 697 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: who's having a job making ends meet, that we're gonna 698 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: charge you another one hundred and undred fifty dollars uh 699 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: to get an ID to vote. That's a poll tax, 700 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: it seems to me. So that's the kind of thing 701 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, and that happens over and over again. 702 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: And there are other forms of ID that we've seen discussing. 703 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:12,959 Speaker 1: Nobody's talking about. 704 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 2: And of course we're not talking about the other aspects 705 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 2: of the Save Act to go well beyond ID and 706 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 2: it goes to the I mean, which is also part 707 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 2: of Jim grow the history, and that is when it 708 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 2: comes to registration, you got to find your birth certificate 709 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: if you know where yours is, I have no clue 710 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 2: where mine is. Or you have to passport. In two 711 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 2: thirds African Americans don't even have passports. 712 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,840 Speaker 1: The past word I was blocking on justing, but not 713 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:41,760 Speaker 1: only that, how many people go out get married, yes, 714 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: and then square their married name with their birth certificate 715 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: and that would be thrown out under that law? On 716 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: the law. 717 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's what just passed the House of Representatives 718 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 2: now needs to get the sixty in the Senate. So 719 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,919 Speaker 2: I like what Schumer said, dead on arrival, But what's 720 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 2: not dead is we are. We have arrived at a 721 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,879 Speaker 2: moment in time where there's so much other vandalism that's 722 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,320 Speaker 2: going on. That's so reminiscent of what happened after reconstruction 723 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 2: as it relates to voting rights acts, civil rights acts, 724 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 2: issues related to trying to turn back the clock in 725 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 2: mid districting, mid decade, redistrict team rigging, the germana, which. 726 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: Is again you big in your book as well. I'll 727 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,879 Speaker 1: ask to be able to remember. At the time most 728 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 1: of what this book is about in South Carolina, it 729 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,800 Speaker 1: was sixty percent the population was African American. 730 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's remarkable in its absolutely six zero and I 731 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 2: don't know. 732 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean just and the same thing when it came 733 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: to resisted voters. How is it then that you have 734 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: seven condorsspeople and only one. That's what it is now. Yep. 735 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: But at the end of this period of time, there 736 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: were seven African America, seven congress people in South Carolina 737 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,320 Speaker 1: on the one district. They call it the shoe String district. 738 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: It's because it was going in such a way that 739 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 1: all the black people were in that one district and 740 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 1: the other six were white. And that's what it is today. 741 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 2: I was telling my staff after reading this book, I yeah, 742 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 2: a lot of the history I vaguely remember. But you 743 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 2: were able to connect dots and entire your own personal 744 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 2: history to this and really distill the essence of how 745 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,319 Speaker 2: South Carolina played such an outside roll and all this. 746 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 2: And I said I preferred not to read it, And 747 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,919 Speaker 2: they said why, I said, my blood is boiling even 748 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 2: hotter than it was six hours ago. To ignorance allows 749 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,800 Speaker 2: me to get through the day sleeping. I mean, but 750 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 2: I mean that, you know, I feel like you know 751 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 2: my own complicity this moment, and we're not doing enough 752 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,439 Speaker 2: that we're not calling this out. How in the hell 753 00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 2: is this happening at the kind of scale I mean 754 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 2: when we talk about rewriting history and sensoring historical facts, 755 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,959 Speaker 2: it's quite literally happening institutions across this country, institutions virel 756 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 2: learning what's happening with the EI and the assault to it. 757 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,200 Speaker 2: They just rank racism that's coming from the FEE the 758 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 2: social media feed of the present United States, just recently, 759 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 2: what he did to the Obamas. It's a low disgrace, 760 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 2: you know, But tell me why it shouldn't be more outraged. 761 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: I think you've demonstrated time and time again that you 762 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: are that you can't let it go. I know a 763 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: lot of people say, and remember is one thing to 764 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: for democracy is something something else again, to augur for 765 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: dignity and back to I think you have to look 766 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 1: at what is happening today and saying where is the 767 00:48:53,840 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 1: dignity in this Obama the Obama's piction where's the dignity 768 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:09,360 Speaker 1: in that that kind of thing can't operate within democracy? 769 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: Because you've got freedom of expression and all of that, 770 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: and you can stretch us. And if you remember the President, 771 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,000 Speaker 1: even at the time he did it, he talked about 772 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 1: that freedom that being at first in the freedom, and 773 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: it may be, but where is the dignity? And so 774 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: I think that it's one thing to have democracy, is 775 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,239 Speaker 1: something else to have dignity. And I think that the 776 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: dignity and respect that we need to have within this 777 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 1: democracy is something we need to talk about more. And 778 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: so I say to my democratic friends, I believe we 779 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: got a job to preserve democracy, but I think we 780 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: got to take it a little step further, and that 781 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 1: is to talk about the dignity and respect that must 782 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: exist within this democracy that we hold near and there. 783 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: And I'll see what has happened in time and time 784 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: again today as the lowering of the dignity sendates that 785 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: used to be important to this country and needs to 786 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: come back. You know, I've been saying this all over. 787 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if I said that to the students 788 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,960 Speaker 1: earlier today, but I was down in Atlanta on Sunday 789 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: and met with a lot of college students, and I 790 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,240 Speaker 1: said to him, you know, when I was a student, 791 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: I learned in my history classes that Thomas Edison was 792 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,360 Speaker 1: the greatest American inventor of all time in large measure 793 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: because he invented the light bulb. However, what I did 794 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: not get in my history books was the fact that 795 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison couldn't get that light bulb to work until 796 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,240 Speaker 1: he got Lewis Latimer's filament put in that light bulb. 797 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: Lewis Latimer came up with the filament, the son of 798 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:19,440 Speaker 1: former slaves who discovered the filament. And it's when Thomas 799 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,280 Speaker 1: Edison had enough maturity to step outside of his comfort 800 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: zone and sit down with this black guy, Lewis Latimer. 801 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: That's what made his light bulb work. And I can 802 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,279 Speaker 1: tell why is it an insult for his student, black 803 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 1: or white to learn that? So why is that not 804 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,920 Speaker 1: in our textbooks? So I think that what we have 805 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: to do is call people out on this because I'm 806 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: amazed at the number of people. And I walked through 807 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,760 Speaker 1: other things I was talking about it, and I forgot 808 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,359 Speaker 1: what came up, and I says, yeah, we were able 809 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,560 Speaker 1: to do that. They were talking about soldiers and bellfy 810 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,760 Speaker 1: because Charles Drew discovered the way the physic red blood. 811 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: And see, well this person had never heard of Charles Drup, 812 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,960 Speaker 1: but they knew bout blood transfuseons. And so we don't 813 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: have any problems. We're putting things in the textbooks that 814 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:19,479 Speaker 1: nick white students proud, but there's a problem they're putting 815 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: stuff in textbooks that would make black students proud. 816 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,839 Speaker 2: I mean, Congressman, you remember it was just a few 817 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 2: years ago that there was a SOCIALI Siddies book in 818 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 2: Florida that they rewrote under the Anti Woke Act, and 819 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 2: they removed Rosa Park's race absolutely because it was quote 820 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 2: unquote two insensitive. 821 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. What happens. 822 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's happened only because of the blowback and the outrage. Yeah, 823 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,480 Speaker 2: that major national publisher that was threatened by other states, 824 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,520 Speaker 2: did they back off this. 825 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: Kind of interest? You bring up Florida. Frederick Wilson, a 826 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:59,240 Speaker 1: congresswoman from Florida. I was on a zoom a virtual 827 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: meeting with her the other day and she brought up 828 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: the flat fact, the same thing you just brought up, 829 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: And she mentioned only two states in the Union that 830 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:16,320 Speaker 1: made a study of black history mandatory in our schools 831 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,960 Speaker 1: in South Carolina one of them. And I had never 832 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,760 Speaker 1: really thought about it. And I remember how that happened. 833 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: It was to settle a lawsuit. And I happened to 834 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: be on the committee that was appointed by Dick Riley 835 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 1: to come up with some ways that he could go 836 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,680 Speaker 1: to the courts and get lost to settle. I was 837 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: on that committee and happened to be one of the 838 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: people that that's one of the things we put in 839 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: that settlement. They put black history in our schools. And 840 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,560 Speaker 1: she says on the two Stags, thats got that. I 841 00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: got to check on that. I don't know if that's 842 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,120 Speaker 1: true or not, but that's what she said. This was 843 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: just a week or so ago. 844 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,280 Speaker 2: Well, we don't have much more time, and I regret 845 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,240 Speaker 2: if we didn't just quickly jump into Yeah, you mentioned 846 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 2: the twenty eight percent black support that Nixon received. 847 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump wasn't that far behind, right, It wasn't that 848 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,359 Speaker 1: What the hell happened? Is that on us? Yes? That's 849 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,879 Speaker 1: on us? Yes? Yeah. Remember there was one question that 850 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,680 Speaker 1: Trump in his first campaign, and he was talking to 851 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 1: black folksman, he did, what do you have to lose? Yep? Now, 852 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:45,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people had trouble answered that question. I've 853 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,799 Speaker 1: never had trouble answer that question. And I think that 854 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:55,120 Speaker 1: we've seen enough today to know exactly what you've had news, 855 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,839 Speaker 1: and so what we've got to do is and that's 856 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: why I keep hopping indignity and respect, because he got 857 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: a big person of the African American vote, mostly African 858 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:15,320 Speaker 1: American men, simply because of that little word of dignity, 859 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:20,359 Speaker 1: maybe those two words in respect. And when you run 860 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:27,399 Speaker 1: a campaign and no matter of what people of color say, 861 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:32,000 Speaker 1: you tell me you know more about this because your 862 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:37,560 Speaker 1: algorithms or whatever you use it rather than the lived experiences. 863 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:43,920 Speaker 1: When the algorithms get more weight than lived experiences, you're 864 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,279 Speaker 1: going to have a problem. And I think that that's 865 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 1: what has happened in all too many instances. It's getting 866 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:55,240 Speaker 1: much better. I think that we are. We're now begin 867 00:55:55,360 --> 00:56:01,720 Speaker 1: to see especially like the last election, and I think 868 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,720 Speaker 1: we won't be making that mistake again. 869 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 2: What is what? What advice going forward? I mean, we're 870 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,760 Speaker 2: going to be successful this November. What does a hakkeing 871 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 2: Jeffries mean to you? I mean it would be a 872 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:13,560 Speaker 2: historic It. 873 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,760 Speaker 1: May would be historic because I think what it would 874 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: mean is that sensitivity and sensibilities will be brought back 875 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,960 Speaker 1: into the process. Not so much because it is Hakim 876 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,239 Speaker 1: Jeffries because but because it is a party that he 877 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 1: represents that offers to this country affordability and accessibility, and 878 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 1: offers to this country's dignity and respect h and will 879 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,760 Speaker 1: define for the country exactly what you've got to lose 880 00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,400 Speaker 1: if you do not change to the direction you're going in. 881 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,279 Speaker 1: But there are other people in this country are saying 882 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,399 Speaker 1: the country is on the wrong track, so you've got 883 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,200 Speaker 1: to show them that we will put this country back 884 00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,520 Speaker 1: on the track, the right track. 885 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:14,000 Speaker 2: Well, that's a great way to end dignity, affordability, accessibility. 886 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,480 Speaker 1: And the spirit of Isaiah. The repairs of the breach. 887 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,360 Speaker 1: Repairs of the breach, Irishman's great to have you here. 888 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me