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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Coming February, I'm Emilia on this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm taking you on a search, a search for love
Speaker 1: for hard working Latina. But there were other reasons. I
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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hey Leeth, the listeners take here. Last
Speaker 1: season on Lethal Lit, you might remember I came to
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Speaker 1: Lethal Lit is available now on the I Heart Radio app,
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Speaker 1: than I'm Jen Slada and I was a writer on
Speaker 1: the Office. Hello everyone, Welcome one and all to the
Speaker 1: latest and for this week greatest installment of the Office
Speaker 1: Deep Dive, I am your host, Brian bump partner. Today
Speaker 1: you will be experiencing my conversation with Jen Salada. Now.
Speaker 1: Jen joined our show as a writer in season two,
Speaker 1: and if you listen to my conversation with Mike, sure
Speaker 1: you know that Mike describes Jen as the beating heart
Speaker 1: of the show. I had never thought of it that way,
Speaker 1: but I realized after he said it that that is
Speaker 1: so true. And you can totally see Jen's influence on
Speaker 1: the show. Starting in that second season, Jen wrote some
Speaker 1: of the most complex, subtle, psychological storylines that we ever had,
Speaker 1: and it was so fun for me to talk about
Speaker 1: that with her. Um. Jen is also crazy smart and
Speaker 1: absolutely hilarious, and she has the most infectious laugh, which
Speaker 1: you will hear lots of momentarily. Um. But most importantly,
Speaker 1: she was the only guest who brought me cookies when
Speaker 1: she came in to talk. That's right, she she brought
Speaker 1: me cookies. So that officially makes Jen my favorite guest
Speaker 1: of all time. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my
Speaker 1: friend and soon to be yours, Jen Salata Bubble and Squeak.
Speaker 1: I love bubble and squeak, Bubble and squeaker cookie every
Speaker 1: month lift over from the natty. Yeah, yeah, so you
Speaker 1: look the same. I saw you look awesome. What the
Speaker 1: thing with dudes is they get you get to look
Speaker 1: better when you get older girls? True? Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a problem. It's like some distinguished silver fox gray that
Speaker 1: happens like girls. Don't you know? Why? Why can't why
Speaker 1: can't girls have that? I don't know. I'll try it out.
Speaker 1: It's just a little just a little side gray. You
Speaker 1: just look it just looks so young. You look you God,
Speaker 1: you do truth speak truth God. Why don't we hang
Speaker 1: home before? I think it every time we hang out?
Speaker 1: That should be microphones now, we shouldn't. We should all
Speaker 1: accord everything and no laws, just big just big Mike.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I just spent some time with ed Helms,
Speaker 1: so cool. Yeah, ran out of here to make sure
Speaker 1: he didn't see you. Seriously, what the fun is all about?
Speaker 1: You know what's amazing? I was going to maybe tell
Speaker 1: a sort of embarrassing story that doesn't make him look bad,
Speaker 1: that makes me totally embarrass about it. But I never
Speaker 1: told on anything. Okay, it's totally embarrassing. Now you're ready, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is embarrassing. Why am I starting with this? But
Speaker 1: you just mentioned his name is so funny? So um,
Speaker 1: I can't remember what season this was, but you'll know
Speaker 1: from what I'm talking about. I had an idea where
Speaker 1: Ed was going to sing take a chance on me,
Speaker 1: and um, I remember I told Greg that idea, and
Speaker 1: he's like, go down and tell Ed, you know, talk
Speaker 1: to him about it, you know, about the song because
Speaker 1: he'll be singing it soon. And I just remember, like,
Speaker 1: being a fan of Edge from the Daily Show, it
Speaker 1: was an attractive, interesting, cool dorky you know, banjo playing dude.
Speaker 1: So like there was a part of me that was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a cool dude. And I guess I got
Speaker 1: a little kind of nervous about you know, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just a tiny bit nervous around at first,
Speaker 1: you know, professional but just like a little bit nervous.
Speaker 1: So I go over and I knock on his trailer door.
Speaker 1: So I have to ask him, you know, do you
Speaker 1: know this song? And let's talk about this song or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he knows that he knows music. He's mr
Speaker 1: Music right knock on his door. He's like, hey, Jim.
Speaker 1: I was like, Hi, So I had this idea for
Speaker 1: an episode coming up soon, probably next week. I don't
Speaker 1: remember this, remembering exactly what, and and I said, it's
Speaker 1: take a chance on me. And I said, you know
Speaker 1: that song? He's like what. I was like, you know
Speaker 1: that song? He did not know the song. So I
Speaker 1: had to sing take a chance on me, do it.
Speaker 1: I'm the parking lot of the office, and I can't sing. Also,
Speaker 1: I can't sing, and I'm singing to a singer. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he was lovely, It's all fine, But it was one
Speaker 1: of the dorky moments of my life. I never told
Speaker 1: him that because it was just awkward, because I wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to be like, I'm nervous around you. But now
Speaker 1: I'll tell the world there it is. I will make
Speaker 1: sure you hear that story. Um, all right, so you
Speaker 1: so pre you you came to the Office in season two,
Speaker 1: which basically was when Lee and Gen joined to you
Speaker 1: were the new Kids. How was that? By the way,
Speaker 1: coming into that room, it was it was great. It
Speaker 1: was intimidating. I had been on a bunch of other
Speaker 1: writing staffs. I've been writing for a while, but this
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of the show. I was
Speaker 1: a huge fan of The British Office, and then I
Speaker 1: was on Malcolm in the Middle and watching The American Office,
Speaker 1: and I'd watched The Office when it aired. In the
Speaker 1: next morning, all I talked about at work was The Office.
Speaker 1: It was delightful for the well I was trying to
Speaker 1: write Malcolm um and uh so. I was just very
Speaker 1: intimidated at first, but excited. I felt like there were
Speaker 1: a lot of shows that I worked on that um
Speaker 1: there were a few shows that were my sensibility. I
Speaker 1: got to work on Andy Richter Controls the Universe, and
Speaker 1: got to work on some other, you know, interesting, cool shows.
Speaker 1: But this show was the first show where I was like,
Speaker 1: oh God, like the humor and the heart everything about
Speaker 1: it I just felt like so connected to and also
Speaker 1: just kind of dryer, subtle humor, dry humor, subtle humor,
Speaker 1: and there were so many things that were appealing to
Speaker 1: me about it. So I both was incredibly excited and
Speaker 1: also like, don't funk this up, cana um. So let
Speaker 1: me rewind a little bit. So you you're on Malcolm
Speaker 1: in the Middle, and then what happens you You get
Speaker 1: a meeting with get a meeting with Greg. I was
Speaker 1: on a development deal actually also with NBC. So I
Speaker 1: left Malcolm in the Middle. Um, full disclosure. Did not
Speaker 1: get asked back to Malcolm Middle that will come maybe
Speaker 1: because I just talking about the office all the time.
Speaker 1: They were like, what the hell? But um, yeah, So
Speaker 1: I left. I had a meeting with Greg. I met
Speaker 1: him at a coffee bean somewhere, just desperately wanted to
Speaker 1: be on the show. Had a fantastic meeting, loved him instantly.
Speaker 1: Had There was a very pregnant pause in my interview
Speaker 1: with him of just it felt like it was like
Speaker 1: five minutes long, but I'm not quite sure. It's just
Speaker 1: him sort of kind of putting his hand on his
Speaker 1: forehead and looking down and I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is I have no idea which way this
Speaker 1: is going, because like I think it was going well
Speaker 1: but I don't really know, and there's a long pause,
Speaker 1: and then he was like, hey, do you want to
Speaker 1: you want to join the staff in the moment, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of it, probably to Gregg's later dismay,
Speaker 1: is that when he was silent for a little while,
Speaker 1: just trying to process or think about things or who
Speaker 1: knows what, I didn't speak. Then surprise, surprise, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: shut up once he hired me. And I can tell
Speaker 1: you a funny story about that as well. I yeah, no,
Speaker 1: So I I felt so aligned with the office before,
Speaker 1: just even as a fan, and I noticed we made
Speaker 1: some there were some changes, and we did some tweaking
Speaker 1: the things going into season two, which made it even
Speaker 1: more maybe in my wheelhouse of kind of heart and
Speaker 1: you know, rooting for Krill and kind of finding the
Speaker 1: underbelly of his character and stuff like that. But season one,
Speaker 1: I was just a huge fan, so right, so waits, well,
Speaker 1: so many things. First of all, so what I've been
Speaker 1: told was that Greg, in consultation with the network and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, he needed to soften Steve first season two,
Speaker 1: that Kevin Riley was very happy with what had happened,
Speaker 1: but that people watching it was actually something that you
Speaker 1: want in television, and so he Greg came in. It
Speaker 1: will be interesting to hear your perspective on this because
Speaker 1: you weren't a writer before, but that Greg was the
Speaker 1: one who pushed for Steve being softened, and that there
Speaker 1: was everyone else who was in the room, and a
Speaker 1: writer at the time felt like, no, you're going to
Speaker 1: kill the show. Oh that's fascinating. I could. I do
Speaker 1: have thoughts on it, even though I wasn't there, um,
Speaker 1: because I think that depending on how you interpret saw
Speaker 1: often it could sound like something that could be very
Speaker 1: threatening to the show, and it could for me because
Speaker 1: I know what it ended up being. I'll explain why.
Speaker 1: I think it was a great decision. But I remember
Speaker 1: we were early on in season two talking about how
Speaker 1: do we do this, and a lot of people had
Speaker 1: great ideas. I just remember specifically, Um, I had talked
Speaker 1: to my dad, who's a physicist to come from a
Speaker 1: very kind of nerdy' or them family, a physicist and
Speaker 1: a psychologist and a mechanical engineers my brother and my
Speaker 1: dad was in UH had a high level position where
Speaker 1: he ended up having to fire people, and I remember
Speaker 1: him telling me about firing people from the point of
Speaker 1: view of a boss, that it's like you always are
Speaker 1: thinking about the person who gets fired, because that's the
Speaker 1: person you're sympathizing with. Right of course, you're going to
Speaker 1: tell a story you would sympathize with the person who's
Speaker 1: being fired. I remember my dad's saying, it's a very
Speaker 1: kind of lonely, weird thing, you know, and you're having
Speaker 1: to make a decision that's affecting another person and it's
Speaker 1: really difficult. And sort of the extension of that with
Speaker 1: having Mike Scott, who just like you, guys are his
Speaker 1: family and if you have to get rid of one
Speaker 1: of you, it's devastating. It was just sort of an
Speaker 1: interesting way to see things that affect him, but to
Speaker 1: understand and feel for him, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I think I think it's the feeling for him and
Speaker 1: seeing the underbelling and seeing the why of what he's doing,
Speaker 1: as opposed to what I think was a very common
Speaker 1: network note often which is makes someone more likable. And
Speaker 1: I think that if you take that for what it
Speaker 1: sounds like, just make somebody more likable, it feels like
Speaker 1: you're taking all the character and everything away and you're
Speaker 1: just softing them into this benign mush of human which
Speaker 1: would like imagine Carrell having to play somebody just you
Speaker 1: know that couldn't have any edges, that couldn't do outrageously
Speaker 1: ridiculously bad things. Right, well, and I think we're What
Speaker 1: Greg ultimately said was that for the episode, it would
Speaker 1: play the same way that he could still do this behavior.
Speaker 1: He could still be an idiot, he could still be insensitive,
Speaker 1: but then just find just a moment, tiny moment at
Speaker 1: the end that where you see this other side of
Speaker 1: him and actually you talked about um firing someone, and
Speaker 1: there's the Halloween episode again, that last moment you just
Speaker 1: see him giving out the candy to the kids and
Speaker 1: just humanizes him in a way where you understand like
Speaker 1: there's a kind of a man who's alone and he's
Speaker 1: given out candy. He's got the sweet part of him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, I can understand. We had. We had more
Speaker 1: arguments in that room than almost any other room I've
Speaker 1: ever been in, and they were, like I always say,
Speaker 1: it was like a healthy marriage where you're supposed to fight.
Speaker 1: They're supposed to be fighting. It's safe and we love
Speaker 1: each other, but we would fight and I just think
Speaker 1: it's because we all gave a ship. It's like we
Speaker 1: really really cared. I've been in rooms where everybody just
Speaker 1: sits there and kind of you know, wait, still time
Speaker 1: to go home more, And this was not that everybody
Speaker 1: cared desperately about everything. Yeah, um, do you think being
Speaker 1: a woman and only you and Mendy were women at
Speaker 1: the time, writers, do you feel you'll like, well, first
Speaker 1: of all, how was that for you? You know, I
Speaker 1: always feel like in this I'm supposed to be saying
Speaker 1: more than I do, or I'm reevaluating how I felt
Speaker 1: all the time, But I didn't think about it like
Speaker 1: I just I I don't know. I I'll talk with
Speaker 1: the office specifically in a second. But I've been so
Speaker 1: incredibly fortunate in my career to work worth incredibly evolved men,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, yes, I always wish there were
Speaker 1: more women and more diversity and every staff always that
Speaker 1: is always something that I wanted and wished for and
Speaker 1: asked for. But I didn't feel uncomfortable in any way. Um,
Speaker 1: I just felt very blessed and lucky. Again, it's on me.
Speaker 1: It's certainly in the later days to try to incorporate
Speaker 1: and bring in other people and make rooms more diverse.
Speaker 1: But um, I didn't have that feeling. And certainly when
Speaker 1: I got there, Mindy was there, and so I felt
Speaker 1: like and there were maybe I don't remember now six
Speaker 1: of us, seven of us, and you know, so there
Speaker 1: were two women out of seven, and I knew she
Speaker 1: was incredibly talented and just loved working with her. But
Speaker 1: um no, I didn't. I had I didn't continue. I
Speaker 1: feel like it should have occurred to me more than
Speaker 1: it did, and it didn't. So that's how I feel
Speaker 1: a responsibility to other ladies, you know, to just sort
Speaker 1: of go back and you know, think of things. So
Speaker 1: I certainly have had female friends that have had more,
Speaker 1: you know, because I was the only woman on maybe
Speaker 1: three staffs that I've been on. And even in those situations, again, yes,
Speaker 1: I would always like to have the more voices in
Speaker 1: the room, and the more diverse the voices are in
Speaker 1: the room. The bed of the show is just is
Speaker 1: so it always should be that way. But on the
Speaker 1: shows when I was coming up there, guys that I
Speaker 1: worked with were fantastic, and I didn't I didn't feel uncomfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Greg has talked about or this quote was attributed
Speaker 1: to him or something like it. Um. Mike Sure said
Speaker 1: that that Greg talked about wanting to create a writer's
Speaker 1: room that was like the X Men, right, so that
Speaker 1: not everybody had a special skill that was the same. So, UM,
Speaker 1: what I have been told is, and let's see you
Speaker 1: agree with that Lee and Jean Um were very good
Speaker 1: at the cringe comedy, that Mike was more optimistic, that
Speaker 1: Mindy was more absurdist, but also tied into, UM, some
Speaker 1: of the love stuff. Paul was very into Michael's worst instincts. Um.
Speaker 1: And then you, I was told one you were very
Speaker 1: into Pam and sort of the beating heart of the show.
Speaker 1: And then Greg wasn't sure about that. He said, you
Speaker 1: were very interested in Michael's stories and finding the complexity there.
Speaker 1: What's funny is that the episode that was reference for
Speaker 1: both of those two things from Mike Sure and from
Speaker 1: Greg was the same episode where the bird dies. Whereas
Speaker 1: Greg saw that as being about Michael and him having
Speaker 1: to find a way to deal with it, and Mike
Speaker 1: saw that as about Pam and Pam making the decision
Speaker 1: to facilitate the funeral for Michael. Oh my gosh. Interesting
Speaker 1: that they referenced the same episode, but came up with
Speaker 1: two different responses. Do you feel like, what was your superpower?
Speaker 1: What interested you? What's amaze? That is fascinating? And I
Speaker 1: can see how they both could say that what's interesting
Speaker 1: to me is that for me, it's understanding the humanity
Speaker 1: of a person and the levels of a person and
Speaker 1: to the psychology of a person. To me, it was
Speaker 1: very much Michael that you know, it was not the
Speaker 1: Pam element um in that I love Pam and Michael's connection.
Speaker 1: I love their relationship, but for me, it was steering
Speaker 1: Michael through that sort of the stages of grief. I
Speaker 1: never got to write internal stories where something kind of
Speaker 1: was happening to the insides of a character. And I
Speaker 1: was like, this is a story on a network television
Speaker 1: show that is an internal story where the character that
Speaker 1: it's happening to is not even aware of it. Like
Speaker 1: I was like, my brain was exploding. So I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like they're both They're both right in a
Speaker 1: way where it's like but with that particular episode was Michael.
Speaker 1: I had this moment with Steve when I was leaving
Speaker 1: the show and I told him, Um, it was very,
Speaker 1: very difficult decision was the best job I ever had
Speaker 1: by far. But I was starting to feel like I
Speaker 1: wanted to write some of my own stuff. And and
Speaker 1: I told Greg, and then I told Steve, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sad. I'm really upset. I mean, it was like
Speaker 1: the best opportunity of my life. And he said, I
Speaker 1: think this is going to be difficult for you. I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know why I could tell something He was saying
Speaker 1: something else, and he said, because I think you work
Speaker 1: out a lot of your own stuff through my character.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Michael Scott thinks I'm Michael Scott. I
Speaker 1: mean he meant it. He didn't mean it as a
Speaker 1: bad thing, but he just meant He was just earnest
Speaker 1: and genuine in it. And like I was like, why
Speaker 1: can't I be Pam? Why can't I be my candidate Phillis?
Speaker 1: I'll no, But I mean I adore I adore Michael,
Speaker 1: And he's not wrong. There are moments in my life
Speaker 1: I'm very intrigued with his character. But there are also
Speaker 1: moments in my life where I feel Michael Scotty and
Speaker 1: I think everyone does. But I thought that was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Fact is amazing, and and there's a sweetness to it,
Speaker 1: because I've told some people that and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: but Michael. You love Michael, and you know he's he's
Speaker 1: connected and he loves but like, I immediately went to
Speaker 1: the most ridiculous sides of Michael. Like there was a
Speaker 1: moment after it where I thought of him, where I
Speaker 1: was trying. I had to type up an email that
Speaker 1: I was gonna have to send as soon as I
Speaker 1: got home. I was, oh, God, this is terrible. Stay
Speaker 1: I was on the side, I was at a stoplight,
Speaker 1: and I had my computer open and I was type
Speaker 1: me because if you've finished typing it the second I
Speaker 1: got home, I was going to send it. And I
Speaker 1: just imagined like a cop pulling me over with my laptop.
Speaker 1: I mean, the drivers I'm driving and I've got my
Speaker 1: laptop open, and he's like, ma'am, you know, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not texting. I'm not texting, I'm emailing. There are
Speaker 1: definitely moments where I'm like, I think, maybe I am,
Speaker 1: but it's so amazing. I agree on a long journey
Speaker 1: there to that, but uh yeah. But I'm fascinated with
Speaker 1: what makes people tick and the layers underneath people and
Speaker 1: I feel like writing for me is about connecting. I
Speaker 1: think there's so many things that people think are just themselves,
Speaker 1: and when you see it on screen, you feel like
Speaker 1: kind of comforted forgetting. Maybe that's just me because the
Speaker 1: Michael scotten me, you're just comforted. The other people are
Speaker 1: like that too, So the stuff inside that you don't
Speaker 1: get to see is what I like to try to
Speaker 1: bring out or show, even if they're not saying it's happening.
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Speaker 1: Need to hire you need Indeed. The art world it
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Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows. There's something that came up
Speaker 1: in talking with Greg that I did not know. Um.
Speaker 1: It was very clear Greg wanted a collaboration, and he
Speaker 1: wanted the lines between the writers and the actors to
Speaker 1: be blurred, and he wanted it to be much more collaborative.
Speaker 1: I was aware that was happening, and I was aware
Speaker 1: that it felt very different than any other show. But
Speaker 1: I think for me it was always about really about
Speaker 1: the writers. That it was about the writers were acting,
Speaker 1: and the writer had sort of an unfettered access to set.
Speaker 1: Um Greg told me that his idea was not that
Speaker 1: his idea was to blur the lines between the writers
Speaker 1: and the actors because he felt that in this new
Speaker 1: genre the laughs were about behavior, that there was there
Speaker 1: was something for him that he needed the actors, for
Speaker 1: the writers to see the actors because behavior was way
Speaker 1: more important in this kind of a show than in
Speaker 1: traditional That's fascinating. I agree with that. I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever sort of felt it as that was what
Speaker 1: was happening, like kind of what you're saying, But I
Speaker 1: do think that anytime you try to it was. Part
Speaker 1: of me just thinks that blurring the lines just makes
Speaker 1: it a happier environment because it always felt like the
Speaker 1: writers were on the shows I worked on, the writers
Speaker 1: were off, and then the actors were off and there
Speaker 1: was absolutely no crossover, and you didn't feel like you
Speaker 1: were part of a family together with each other, like
Speaker 1: they'll be shows where I didn't even go down to
Speaker 1: the set. You know, you did never saw the show.
Speaker 1: You know, you never saw the actors act. And I
Speaker 1: just think it's always better if you kind of mush
Speaker 1: the two together. I think that it's uh kind of
Speaker 1: starting to create a character and then working with the
Speaker 1: actor to see what they do with it and how
Speaker 1: they make it. There's that kind of thing I feel like,
Speaker 1: And then when you have a specific story about a
Speaker 1: specific character going down and kind of getting to know
Speaker 1: them enough so that you can infuse it so much
Speaker 1: with the goodness and the specificity of you guys, is
Speaker 1: such a big thing. I guess I never really thought
Speaker 1: of it exactly that way what he's saying, But I
Speaker 1: I do think that if you think about this show
Speaker 1: being really needing to be real, I'm imagining the worst
Speaker 1: case of what would have happened if if what Greg
Speaker 1: was saying wasn't true, is that writers would be in
Speaker 1: a room coming up with these weedy one liners that
Speaker 1: were not based at all in what a human being
Speaker 1: would do, and the specific human being, so that if
Speaker 1: you go down and to the set down whatever we
Speaker 1: were a couple of minutes stories up like and then
Speaker 1: work with them and and more listen to them and
Speaker 1: see how they would get from point A to point
Speaker 1: B in a realistic way. It'll feel more real and
Speaker 1: more rich than if you're just like, ha ha, this
Speaker 1: is a funny joke. You know, like the worst kind
Speaker 1: of writing where you're like, here's a funny joke, and
Speaker 1: we'll just give this joke to somebody, you know, without
Speaker 1: really taking into consideration. But packing live. Um, why was
Speaker 1: writing the character so real so important for me? Because
Speaker 1: it was a mockumentary. I've found that a lot of
Speaker 1: the a lot of discussions we'd have were about comedy
Speaker 1: versus reality. So we had these discussions a lot. I
Speaker 1: think we had them even camera wise. Um, we also
Speaker 1: had a lot of moments we were talking about Michael
Speaker 1: and jan unbelievable relationship, so funny when once we got
Speaker 1: to the point where he seemed like he was almost
Speaker 1: evolving past her that moment. We had so many fights
Speaker 1: in the room because we and the fight seemed to
Speaker 1: be comedy versus mockumentary. But like reality versus comedy. It
Speaker 1: felt to me like if we were doing a mockumentary documentary,
Speaker 1: we're leaning into that we would want this character of
Speaker 1: Michael Scott to keep growing. If we're just thinking with
Speaker 1: our comedy glasses on, Jane is Jan and Michael are hilarious, right,
Speaker 1: So there's this tension of should we keep him stuck
Speaker 1: in this relationship because we can mind it for ridiculous humor,
Speaker 1: or should we evolve him? So I always lean to
Speaker 1: this point of evolving. I just start as a viewer
Speaker 1: with that particular show, disconnecting a little if I feel
Speaker 1: that somebody is stuck in a thing that would not
Speaker 1: be stuck in real life, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And I think the audience feels that too, They feel
Speaker 1: like they're being jerked around, And then I think you
Speaker 1: have it more. With Michael and with the Jim and Pam.
Speaker 1: We had those discussions most with those characters. Everybody we
Speaker 1: wanted to evolve or see different shades of or have
Speaker 1: them go through journey. Sometimes sometimes they go forward, sometimes
Speaker 1: they'd go backwards, but we'd want to see some amount
Speaker 1: of movement. But specifically, the biggest fights were even Michael's
Speaker 1: evolution because it was so central to what we were seeing,
Speaker 1: and also with Jim and Pam. So I remember those fights.
Speaker 1: I remember, and I remember being like, oh, no, we
Speaker 1: need to at some point, we can't break It felt
Speaker 1: fake to break Jim and Pam up once once. It
Speaker 1: was those characters set up by Greg and the early
Speaker 1: writers and then acted by John and Jenna in such
Speaker 1: a ridiculously beautiful way. I didn't believe that the threats
Speaker 1: that we were talking about that could come in to
Speaker 1: keep them apart so that we could kind of have
Speaker 1: more of that juice. It just didn't. Yeah, So I um,
Speaker 1: I've talked to a few people about this, just about
Speaker 1: comedy too, and I had this director that I worked with,
Speaker 1: and he was obsessed with the notion that comedy exists
Speaker 1: off of the beat. But Greg said something that you
Speaker 1: were just talking about, which is kind of the same idea.
Speaker 1: Actually you guys both said it in different ways, but
Speaker 1: about Pam and Jim, that there becomes an inevitability. And
Speaker 1: so what Greg said was the choice ultimately was get
Speaker 1: him together. Actually sooner than anyone thinks, right, so suddenly
Speaker 1: like it happens sort of in an instant, so fast on.
Speaker 1: One second you think he's going to be the manager
Speaker 1: at another branch, and then one second later it's do
Speaker 1: you want to go on a date, and then they're
Speaker 1: off and rolling. That's so pure Greg. He's such a genius.
Speaker 1: And what I love is he did that multiple times.
Speaker 1: He would we would come up with an idea or something,
Speaker 1: and he would advance it to to have that surprise factor.
Speaker 1: And what I loved about him was that he had
Speaker 1: the confidence and the skills clearly obviously to take that
Speaker 1: risk of doing something earlier than what was expected and
Speaker 1: knowing that we would be able to deal with the
Speaker 1: fallout of like there together, you know, um and I
Speaker 1: can't quite remember. I just can't remember. There was a
Speaker 1: season that we ended on a cliffhanger. We wrote ourselves
Speaker 1: a little bit into a corner and then we're just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like never point, guess what. We have
Speaker 1: eight weeks after this to figure it out. But I
Speaker 1: love that because it's daring and it's brave, and it's
Speaker 1: not like waiting till the last second and waiting till
Speaker 1: it all has it planned out. So there's like a
Speaker 1: thrill in terms of being a writer and story when
Speaker 1: you have Jim and Pam get together before you think,
Speaker 1: then you have to deal with all the repercussions of
Speaker 1: that quicker and it's scary, but that's there's a thrill
Speaker 1: about that. It's exciting. Right, I'm gonna go back for
Speaker 1: a second, because you were so articulate in your idea
Speaker 1: of of truth and comedy that no one has explained
Speaker 1: to me before. I know that there was a discussion
Speaker 1: about this and way way less significant then you know
Speaker 1: how long Michael should stay with jan or the gym
Speaker 1: and Pam thing. But when Dwight plays a prank on
Speaker 1: Holly and tells her that Kevin is slow, and everyone
Speaker 1: was like, we gotta keep this going, we gotta keep
Speaker 1: this going. But that actually you sort of saying that
Speaker 1: story for that joke too. That was my joke ahead,
Speaker 1: which I think you'll find you'll appreciate well. But just
Speaker 1: my point was that at a certain point in terms
Speaker 1: of truth versus comedy, like, at what point does it
Speaker 1: become unbelievable that Holly doesn't really know the truth. So
Speaker 1: that that just occurred to me as you were talking,
Speaker 1: like oh, I get that, yeah, that you're trying to
Speaker 1: find it ended up pretty quickly. But it's because there's
Speaker 1: a reality and a believability and the audience feels it.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's not always that they know exactly
Speaker 1: what it is, but I feel like there are certain
Speaker 1: things about that show particular, that if you went in
Speaker 1: a different direction, it can distance the audience. I mean
Speaker 1: one of the classic things is that you know, if
Speaker 1: hair starts looking too good and make up, wardrobe and
Speaker 1: the lights look too beautiful, it's like you're starting to
Speaker 1: feel a distance between these people. So I feel like
Speaker 1: there was a reality that you wanted to keep. Um
Speaker 1: just thinking about that joke, Uh, the backstory to that.
Speaker 1: There was a point in the show where I think
Speaker 1: it was coming from like Greg just feeling like, you know,
Speaker 1: probably doing twenty eight episodes of season, but it was like,
Speaker 1: we're getting lazy, We're getting lazy. We we know this
Speaker 1: about this character, we know this about this character. What
Speaker 1: else do we know about this character? So we did
Speaker 1: it for many, many of the characters, I think all
Speaker 1: of them probably, but I was specifically remember we were like,
Speaker 1: what do we know about Kevin? We know that he
Speaker 1: likes to snack, we know that he's maybe not the
Speaker 1: brightest accountant that we have, right, So it's like, if
Speaker 1: we're lazy, we go to these things too often. Right,
Speaker 1: So you know, in the ven diagram of all the
Speaker 1: things we know about Kevin or whatever, what are some
Speaker 1: more things like does he like opera? Would that makes sense?
Speaker 1: Forgot we know about Kevin? I mean literally we did
Speaker 1: this for multiple characters. But this was the moment that
Speaker 1: I remember being in there right when I was about
Speaker 1: to go off and write a script, and so I
Speaker 1: went off. In my interpretation of that was just to
Speaker 1: take one of those two things to blow it up.
Speaker 1: Like I I did definitely try to reach deeper because
Speaker 1: he was saying like go bigger, go deeper, find more.
Speaker 1: So now I took it all the way to the
Speaker 1: bar where it was like, yeah, Kevin is like, you know,
Speaker 1: mentally slow and there's a real there's a real issue here.
Speaker 1: And that's Holly's interpretation of it. And when I did it,
Speaker 1: I think I did it as a joke. It definitely
Speaker 1: was one joke in the script. It might have been two.
Speaker 1: And then I brought it back to the room and
Speaker 1: they're like no, no, no, we're doing more, more and
Speaker 1: more and more. So we expanded it but I just
Speaker 1: I was a little bit delayed, its least embarrassed about
Speaker 1: the fact that my goal was to find something different.
Speaker 1: I just doubled down on maybe not right. Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It always made me laugh. It always made
Speaker 1: me laugh. Um, was there anything else that was specific
Speaker 1: or unique? Do you remember about this writing room? Writer's room?
Speaker 1: It was the best writer's room I've ever been in. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I feel like it will be the best writer's
Speaker 1: room I'm ever in. I think the writers were exceptionally talented,
Speaker 1: and Greg was saying that everybody had their own super strength,
Speaker 1: but everybody was good at story and comedy and and motion.
Speaker 1: I felt that certain people, yeah, we're gifts, more gifts,
Speaker 1: more gifted in certain areas. But I've worked on staffs
Speaker 1: where one person was story, one person was comedy. There
Speaker 1: was a little bit more like that, and I felt
Speaker 1: like this staff, everybody had the ability to do everything,
Speaker 1: and the fact that everybody cared so much. There was
Speaker 1: an enormous discussion I don't know if anybody talked about
Speaker 1: it between whether the proposal should have sound or no sound.
Speaker 1: There were people on both sides. It was about fifty fifty.
Speaker 1: It was the craziest discussion. It was whether or not
Speaker 1: when we saw Jim proposed to Pam we should have
Speaker 1: sound and hear what he's saying, or just see the
Speaker 1: visual of him in the rain getting on one knee.
Speaker 1: And I found that that really explained the writer's room.
Speaker 1: Everybody cared so much. There was one moment where Greg
Speaker 1: was getting into his car, you know, after the discussion
Speaker 1: had gone on for a month and we were about to,
Speaker 1: you know, have to settle on it, where I was
Speaker 1: coming from a trailer and he was getting into his
Speaker 1: car and I said Greg, and he like turned and
Speaker 1: he was like kind of trapped between his car door
Speaker 1: in his car, and I was like, did you make
Speaker 1: did you decide yet it was sound or no sound?
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, no, I haven't, I haven't. It
Speaker 1: was literally a horror film. It was like stalking him
Speaker 1: to find out if the decision had been made. UM,
Speaker 1: we argued passionately, and it's just because everybody cared. And
Speaker 1: I think that, UM, a lot of it was just
Speaker 1: for the passion with which the passion everybody had for
Speaker 1: telling the story. I can talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the sound no sound if you want to hear it
Speaker 1: but you might hear it from everybody else. Go ahead. Um.
Speaker 1: So that was actually a decision a little bit that
Speaker 1: I feel like came down to another discussion that we
Speaker 1: had a lot of times in the room, which was
Speaker 1: kind of being more documentary and a little bit more
Speaker 1: real and a little bit more subtle and being a
Speaker 1: little bit more like a comedy or a show. So uh, Basically,
Speaker 1: the side that wanted to hear Jim's words were like,
Speaker 1: you've been waiting forever to hear him propose to Pam.
Speaker 1: Why would you take that moment away from people and
Speaker 1: not hear his actual words. It's like they've been waiting
Speaker 1: for it. You want to give them what they've been
Speaker 1: waiting for. Just might be slightly more of a comedy
Speaker 1: show kind of thing with a documentary mockumentary thing. It
Speaker 1: was a little bit more of like, God, it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful and subtle and to be across the street and
Speaker 1: I have to reach for it because he would turn
Speaker 1: his mic off in this moment. It's a big moment
Speaker 1: and once you see him down on one knee, we
Speaker 1: know what he's saying, and then actually filling in the
Speaker 1: blank is more beautiful. We went back and forth about
Speaker 1: this for so long. At one point, um Greg asked
Speaker 1: me to send in my pros and cons list, like sounded,
Speaker 1: no sound? And then I remember I was in his
Speaker 1: office a little bit later. We didn't still had made
Speaker 1: a decision, and I saw a list of people who
Speaker 1: wanted sound and a list of people who wanted no sound,
Speaker 1: and his wife and two kids was on one side
Speaker 1: of the list, and two other kids, or his wife
Speaker 1: and one kids. Once I listened to other kids, his
Speaker 1: family was split down the middle. So he was interviewing
Speaker 1: everybody and saying what should we do? What should we do?
Speaker 1: Um So there was a moment he was at the
Speaker 1: sound mix we were he had to make the decision,
Speaker 1: like this is the moment, and he's like, is there
Speaker 1: anybody we haven't asked? Is there anybody we haven't asked?
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, yeah, the security guard is there,
Speaker 1: you know, security guard whose name I can't quite remember him. Sorry,
Speaker 1: But I go and I get the security guard and
Speaker 1: it occurs to me during my walk to the office
Speaker 1: that he's never seen the office. Lovely love man protected us,
Speaker 1: all right, So I'm like, okay, cool. So now we've
Speaker 1: just got a very objective person. So I show him
Speaker 1: the scene without sound, and then I showed him the
Speaker 1: scene with sound, and I say, what did you prefer?
Speaker 1: And he said I liked the second one and I
Speaker 1: said why he said, oh, because I could hear it. Okay, Greg,
Speaker 1: he said he like the second one because he could
Speaker 1: hear it. So that was anyway, That wasn't what how
Speaker 1: the decision was made, but that was our last person
Speaker 1: weighing in, and then you know, it ended up airing
Speaker 1: with sound. But um, but it was the debate about
Speaker 1: whether or not it should be sound or no sound
Speaker 1: was the writer's room. To me, it was everybody incredibly
Speaker 1: passionate about something that we had worked towards, UM and
Speaker 1: just we really cared. Well, it's fascinating to me. Um,
Speaker 1: when Steve left and Pam goes to say goodbye, there's
Speaker 1: no sound. You know, it's weird. I saw it. I
Speaker 1: love did. I just got chills when you even just
Speaker 1: described it, because it's it's such a beautiful moment. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if it speaks to there's a secret
Speaker 1: dynamic between Pam and Michael that we just can't be
Speaker 1: privy to. I don't know, but it's a similar kind
Speaker 1: of moment, right. I mean, it's like, maybe, do you
Speaker 1: think it's possible that because the other one involved Jim
Speaker 1: and Pam and there were so many people like rooting
Speaker 1: for that relationship and kind of squeeing or whatever about them,
Speaker 1: that you couldn't take that moment away from them. But
Speaker 1: for Pam and Michael, who have an incredibly special dynamic too,
Speaker 1: it's not a like romantic thing. So it's not like
Speaker 1: fans have been shipping them for four years and we
Speaker 1: can do that. I don't know. I really don't know,
Speaker 1: because I don't know, But it's it's interesting because what
Speaker 1: you say is how people fill it in that moment
Speaker 1: when Michael leaves. You can't write it. It's written with
Speaker 1: Pam telling you what was said. But did she include
Speaker 1: every detail? Right? And what she says is beautiful? But
Speaker 1: you don't And I don't know. It's it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I like when you so I on the staff, like
Speaker 1: when you have to fill in the blanks more. I
Speaker 1: think when in Casino night we were we had another
Speaker 1: huge fight on staff about, you know, how to portray something,
Speaker 1: whether to make Jim and Pam in the parking lot more,
Speaker 1: you know, dirty or not and I was always I
Speaker 1: didn't want to miss everything. I just wanted to be
Speaker 1: late to the party, or find the shadow of them
Speaker 1: and to hear them talking, to not see it the cleanest,
Speaker 1: to not be very clean in terms of the presentation.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to reach, because I think reaching and
Speaker 1: filling the blanks is more. But I was probably on
Speaker 1: one end of the spectrum in that room with those things. Well,
Speaker 1: Greg brought up both of those moments, and I think,
Speaker 1: and I'm certainly not coming down on one side or
Speaker 1: the other. I think that I would tend to agree
Speaker 1: with you that I loved that moment when Michael leaves.
Speaker 1: I think it's perfect. But it's interesting what Greg said
Speaker 1: in that moment in the parking lot. Specifically, he said,
Speaker 1: these are really skilled actors and you can see a
Speaker 1: lot in their faces, and so in this moment, we
Speaker 1: need to see their face. Oh that's brilliant, and that
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Like I understand that. I
Speaker 1: completely get that. There was an interesting discussion, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't um that came up that I forgot to mention.
Speaker 1: When we were talking about sounds no sound and I
Speaker 1: was talking to my dad about offensive and defensive decision making.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were just digging deep and this sound
Speaker 1: really sounds like they're digging deep. And what I learned too,
Speaker 1: and this is where I know that sometimes I'm on
Speaker 1: the super kind of weirdo end of the spectrum. Is
Speaker 1: that with offensive, you just do what's your gut instinct
Speaker 1: and what's your best thing that you think you should do,
Speaker 1: and you don't worry about anything else any other factors.
Speaker 1: With defensive, that I think is an important thing, but
Speaker 1: I don't pay attention to it enough. Is what do
Speaker 1: the fans want? What will feel satisfying? Will I regret?
Speaker 1: You just kind of go outside? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: To think about you think about the audience a little
Speaker 1: bit more so in terms of the moment, specifically for
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam. Are we thinking what do we want
Speaker 1: to do kind of artistically, show wise, character wise, or
Speaker 1: are we thinking what do people want? The Gangster Chronicles
Speaker 1: podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld
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Speaker 1: We cover all facets of the game. Gainst The Chronicles
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Speaker 1: to be joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah
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Speaker 1: to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes
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Speaker 1: show got made with the writer's, guest stars and directors
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Speaker 1: we finally meet a podcast where we answer all your
Speaker 1: burning questions like is there really a bear in every
Speaker 1: episode of New Girl? Plus each week you'll hear hilarious
Speaker 1: stories like this at the end when he says you
Speaker 1: got some schmid on your face. I feel like I
Speaker 1: pitched that joke. I believe that I feel like I did.
Speaker 1: I'm not on a thousand percent I want to say
Speaker 1: that was I tossed that one out. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. You joined
Speaker 1: the staff in season two when the show was still well.
Speaker 1: We didn't know how many we were gonna do. Um,
Speaker 1: And so the question really is, what factors do you
Speaker 1: think helped to make the show? From the beginning of
Speaker 1: season two getting a six episode order, two by the end,
Speaker 1: completing a full twenty two episode season, and then immediately
Speaker 1: getting a third season. Were there any factors that you
Speaker 1: can point to for what was happening? I think a
Speaker 1: lot of it, and I've forgotten sort of the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes people fighting for it because I feel like
Speaker 1: Ben Silverman, a lot of people just fought very hard
Speaker 1: for things that I wasn't privy too. I was just
Speaker 1: coming on to try and you know, right, but I
Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of people fighting very
Speaker 1: hard for the show. UM. I think a couple of things.
Speaker 1: I think one was just reattacking Correll's character and just
Speaker 1: giving it more demension, just giving it more of a
Speaker 1: three and sixty degree feel. I think. I think, Um, well,
Speaker 1: there was another sort of significant thing that happened, which
Speaker 1: I don't expect you to remember, but iTunes. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so um I remember going and getting a computer around
Speaker 1: that time and seeing the Apple store just had the
Speaker 1: office everywhere. So yeah, so iTunes launching huge. Yes, So
Speaker 1: then people could just you know, download it and watch it.
Speaker 1: And then it started to feel like people were watching it,
Speaker 1: Like I think b J had this thing he said
Speaker 1: that it felt like it was an inside joke with
Speaker 1: our fans, like like like we didn't know that a
Speaker 1: lot of a ton of people were watching it. We
Speaker 1: just kept meeting some people who were fans and they
Speaker 1: were going crazy for it. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: the numbers were necessarily reflected right away. And I also
Speaker 1: remember Jenny Tan from Office Tally and I remember Jenna
Speaker 1: was like on my Space talking to fans. So I
Speaker 1: think the communication with the fans and and other ways
Speaker 1: for people to watch the show. And I also think
Speaker 1: deleted scenes start did really helping us too, is that
Speaker 1: people were getting bonus material and they were really excited
Speaker 1: about that. And I don't know when quite that was,
Speaker 1: if that was a little bit later, or yeah, it's
Speaker 1: this whole sort of wave of technology that was kiss
Speaker 1: meant for the show that people have been able to
Speaker 1: use the new technology that existed in the moment sort
Speaker 1: of at the perfect time for the Office. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember us going on office tally at the end
Speaker 1: of every episode to see like what the fans thought.
Speaker 1: That was just really like live time, kind of like
Speaker 1: reviews of the show by the people who watched it,
Speaker 1: And it was just fascinating. How much did that influence
Speaker 1: the writers its debt? We definitely felt it, I don't think,
Speaker 1: but you should ask other people because I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I don't remember it ever affecting any like storylines or changes.
Speaker 1: But I think that it was a barometer for certain things.
Speaker 1: You know, if we were slowing down Pam and Jim
Speaker 1: and everyone was like, I like the fact that it's slow,
Speaker 1: we would you know, like we we might not feel
Speaker 1: the pressure of it as much. I feel like there
Speaker 1: were little things like that, But it was never like, oh,
Speaker 1: they want this, so we have to give it to them,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? But there was a
Speaker 1: moment and you should have to confirm this, um we
Speaker 1: would have little debates in the room, and then I
Speaker 1: remember we would read the fans, and every once in
Speaker 1: a while the fans would comment on something that we
Speaker 1: you know, like should we do proposal sound or no sound?
Speaker 1: And then fans would say, like, you know, someone would
Speaker 1: be like I wish there was no sound, or which
Speaker 1: would be weird because like, how would they even know.
Speaker 1: But there was one little debate, and I can't remember
Speaker 1: what it was, but it was small. It was a
Speaker 1: small debate, but it was passionate as most things, and
Speaker 1: I think that Lee was on one side of the
Speaker 1: debate and I was on the other side of the debate.
Speaker 1: And after the episode aired, somebody on Office Telly said
Speaker 1: something that was just you know, totally agreeing with like
Speaker 1: how Lee felt and not agreeing at all with what
Speaker 1: I felt. And I was like, that's a bum or whatever.
Speaker 1: A few weeks or months later, I found out that
Speaker 1: Lee was that person. He wrote into Office Tallionder a
Speaker 1: fake name, just writing it. This was like a rich
Speaker 1: old Burner accounts existed in the office writer's throw you
Speaker 1: just confirm this. But I'm sure he did it. I
Speaker 1: think he was just doing it to give me ship,
Speaker 1: because like he disagreed with me, and he's like, look,
Speaker 1: even the fans has agree with you. I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: what the fun? This is not cool? I really thought
Speaker 1: people like the drug dusting episode, did anyone like it?
Speaker 1: Or there's just you guys. It was like, is anybody
Speaker 1: here not in the writer's room reading is amazing? I
Speaker 1: was aware. I mean, as an actor, I typically chose
Speaker 1: to not read it because because one, it's just not
Speaker 1: it's just not helpful. And too, it's the old thing
Speaker 1: where if fifty people say nice things about you and
Speaker 1: then one got that we got that we got, then
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know that's my comedy writerness or
Speaker 1: my jewishness. Although like I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: But yeah, people say something nice and one person is
Speaker 1: something wrong. It's like, what is that? Why did they
Speaker 1: say that? That be true? I don't know. I immediately
Speaker 1: forget all the other ones. Yeah. Um, by the way,
Speaker 1: this our conversation today, which I think is going really
Speaker 1: really well, So I realized I can take a pause.
Speaker 1: Here are people in the booth and nobody will ever know.
Speaker 1: I like, no, but I like keeping our conversation. You
Speaker 1: can't tell you a story about someone who didn't like
Speaker 1: the Office that I had this funny exchange. I was
Speaker 1: on a plane early on season three or four, had
Speaker 1: a dunder Mifflin sweatshirts getting off the plane where the
Speaker 1: pilot was saying thank you for flying, and he was
Speaker 1: an older man. I saw my dunder Mifflin sweatshirt. He's like,
Speaker 1: what is that? What is that? And I said dunder Mifflin.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it's dunder Mifflin. He's like, I
Speaker 1: know what that is. It's the Office. And I like
Speaker 1: something in his tone. I didn't really like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: working on my favorite however, I love it. He's like,
Speaker 1: I don't like that show. It's just like and he's
Speaker 1: just venting. By the way, there's people stacking up behind
Speaker 1: me trying to exit the plane. He goes, I'm so
Speaker 1: stressed on a day to day basis. Everything stresses me out,
Speaker 1: and everybody I work with stresses me out. I don't
Speaker 1: want to come home and feel that people are stressed
Speaker 1: out about where they work. Like is blood pressure was
Speaker 1: like going through the roof and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have a good day. And I was like so
Speaker 1: grateful that he had landed. The plane got really tense,
Speaker 1: and I for everybody who's loved it, I mean, I
Speaker 1: have I think the Office has got more fans than anything.
Speaker 1: I just want to go talk to University of Michigan
Speaker 1: and I had a line of people afterwards that were
Speaker 1: just like a hundred people that just wanted to say
Speaker 1: what the show meant to them and how excited they were. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that always sticks in my brain. If this guy just
Speaker 1: seeing the words dunder Mifflin, his blood pressure went up
Speaker 1: because he doesn't like uncomfortable humor, he doesn't like crane humor,
Speaker 1: and he must have seen particularly uncomfortable episode where people
Speaker 1: were frustrated. Well, I I mean one of the things
Speaker 1: that I've always said was that it has a subversive
Speaker 1: quality that I think appeals potentially to younger people. I
Speaker 1: had a conversation with my parents very similar to to
Speaker 1: your pilot story where they were talking about their friends
Speaker 1: who couldn't who didn't like it. It's just too mean
Speaker 1: and Michael Scott is just too mean. And here was
Speaker 1: my answer. My answer was, you know, what's the the
Speaker 1: actual number one show in television at that time was um,
Speaker 1: you know, through all the demographic however, all you are
Speaker 1: was c s I, this is true. I said, so, Mom.
Speaker 1: This is what you should should say to them. Is
Speaker 1: it's way more comfortable for you to watch, which every
Speaker 1: episode opened with a half naked dead woman or teenager
Speaker 1: lying in the desert and to hear somebody say something
Speaker 1: potentially a little uncomfortable or maybe hits a little too
Speaker 1: close to think long and hard about challenge that, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. All right, That is it for now, guys.
Speaker 1: But that is just the tip of the iceberg with Jen,
Speaker 1: just the tip. We didn't even get to the fact
Speaker 1: that she went on to run our show with Paul
Speaker 1: Lieberstein in season five, so we will have a lot
Speaker 1: more to talk about with Jen in a future episode.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, thank you all for listening, and let's
Speaker 1: let's take a page out of Jen's book this week,
Speaker 1: all right, and try to laugh just a little bit more.
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week. The Office. Deep Dive is
Speaker 1: hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our
Speaker 1: executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer,
Speaker 1: our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
Speaker 1: is die Go Tapia. My main man in the booth
Speaker 1: is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
Speaker 1: by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was
Speaker 1: mixed by seth Olandsky. Have you ever felt depressed about
Speaker 1: work only to have your dad be like, while you're
Speaker 1: so down? So you told him you hate your job
Speaker 1: and he said, well, you better talk yourself out of it,
Speaker 1: And then you thought, hmm, I love to talk. I
Speaker 1: could host a podcast. And then you went to Speaker
Speaker 1: from my Heart and started a podcast and got good
Speaker 1: at it, then monetized it, then quit your born job
Speaker 1: and told your dad thanks for the advice. And he
Speaker 1: was like, well, that's not what I meant, and I
Speaker 1: don't understand what a podcast is. But you seem happy,
Speaker 1: So that's great, kiddo. You ever do that? Well, you
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Speaker 1: E R. Ask your dad you actually don't. Adoption of
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Speaker 1: brought to you by the U. S Department of Health,
Speaker 1: that Human Services Administration for Children and Families, and the
Speaker 1: ACT Council. Hey Leeth, the listeners take here. Last season
Speaker 1: on Lethal Lit, you might remember I came to Hollow
Speaker 1: Falls on a mission. Well, I'm finding out that in
Speaker 1: this town, the dead don't keep their secrets for long,
Speaker 1: and the bodies keep piling up. The second season if
Speaker 1: Lethal Lit is available now on the I Heart Radio app,
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Speaker 1: M