WEBVTT - Can We Fix the Chaotic Vaccine Rollout? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:06.360 Welcome the prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day three hundred 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.520 and seven since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Today's 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:16.840 main story. The vaccine rollout in the US has been chaotic. 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.720 What can we expect will change under a Biden administration? 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:31.880 But first, here's what happened in virus News today. The 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.879 world's about to hit a frightening COVID nineteen benchmark, with 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:41.160 two million people dead, Global infections aren't expected to start 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:46.640 dropping anytime soon. The US is leading all countries and deaths, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:54.279 with Brazil, India, Mexico and the UK next in line. Meanwhile, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.640 New York City will run out of vaccines next week. 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.480 The city's mayor, build A. Blasio said in an interview 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.280 today that there will be no more doses available after 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:10.680 this week unless there is the supply infusion. Hospitals across 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.639 the city have canceled or stopped scheduling appointments for people 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:20.560 to get the COVID nineteen vaccine. In Italy, an advisor 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.480 says the country needs to reimpose strict lockdown measures. Walter Richiardi, 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.760 an advisor to the health minister, said in an interview 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.280 that the current system of on again, off again curbs 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:40.160 has failed to prevent a coronavirus resurgence. The original European 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.520 epicenter of the pandemic, Italy, imposed a nationwide lockdown in 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.960 the spring, despite more than two million virus cases to 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.720 date and a resurgence in recent weeks. The government has 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.600 thus far opted for a three tier system based on 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.040 regional restrictions that are generally softer the the measures scene 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:06.640 last spring. Finally, Fiser has notified countries around the world 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.440 that it will deliver fewer doses of its COVID nineteen 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.840 vaccine in the next three to four weeks as it 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.240 works to renovate a factory in Belgium. The renovations will 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.040 serve to boost capacity from mid February. According to statements 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:27.600 from Norway, Germany and the company. The factory in Pures 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.240 supplies the vaccine to all countries in the world outside 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.000 of the US. That's according to the German Health Ministry. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.360 And now for today's main story. An accelerating rush to 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:49.880 give coronavirus vaccines to Americans has caused confusion over who 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:54.720 can get a shot when, and the difficulty getting shots 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:59.000 or even information about the vaccine is complicating to push 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.560 towards widespread immunity. I spoke to health reporter Michelle fake 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.320 Cortez about what's going wrong with the vaccine rollout thus 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:11.800 far and whether the upcoming Biden administration's plans for it 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:20.920 will improve anything. COVID nineteen vaccines have been available in 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.320 the US for almost over a month now, but there 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.359 still seems to be a great deal of confusion about 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.959 who is eligible to get a vaccine and where one 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.320 can get a vaccine. I mean, just briefly, what has 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.760 led to things being so unclear at this point In 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.920 the United States, Every location has their own vaccine approach, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.400 and when I say location, I don't even mean state 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.840 or city. In some cases it's by county or even 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.000 by hospital. So where you go and when you go 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.440 in order to get access to a vaccine changes depending 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.840 on where you live. Not only that, the rules them 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.760 elves are changing. So in some cases, in some places, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.400 if you're sixty five and older, universally you can get 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.800 access to the vaccinations, regardless of whether you're a health 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.280 care worker, first responder, if you have other medical conditions 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.880 or anything. In some other cases, it's still very specific. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.640 Only people who work in a hospital or live in 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.600 a nursing home can get access. So that's the first 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.200 level of complexity. The second level of complexity is that 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:33.200 even for those who do have access, actually accessing that 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:38.080 access is challenging. There are websites set up. Sometimes it's 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.120 the state or the city that has set up the websites, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.520 sometimes it's a hospital. Those get overwhelmed. Many of them 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:51.200 are crashing repeatedly, and there's just no consistent outlet for 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.520 information on who, when, where to get vaccinations. And it 0:04:55.640 --> 0:05:01.840 is an unbelievable conglomeration of formation and really no one 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.880 has mastered it yet. Is it also an issue of 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:13.080 enough people trained to store or administer the vaccines in 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:17.000 this particular moment as we're speaking right now, there is 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.920 not an issue with supply, not when it comes to 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:21.920 the vaccines and not when it comes to the people 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.760 who are willing to administer them. That being said, as 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.479 we start rolling out more and more, supply is going 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.080 to be a critical issue. There's no way that we'll 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.640 be able to get that many shots into people's arms 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.000 in order to accommodate everyone who wants to get one. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.000 That being said, we are seeing astonishing stories across the 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.320 country of healthcare workers who are volunteering, people who are 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.480 working in emergency rooms during the day and volunteering at 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.760 night to give injections, people who normally work in nursing 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.760 homes in other places going and doing the check ins 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.840 and volunteering their time and effort, because this really is 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.840 a nationwide effort, and especially those people on the front 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.880 lines really do know how urgent it is that we 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.159 get these vaccinations out there. Just last night, President elect 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.200 Joe Biden announced a one point nine trillion dollar plan 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.800 to combat the pandemic, including a strategy for rebooting the 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.720 vaccine rollout. I was wondering if you might go into 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:24.680 some detail about what exactly he's proposing and whether you 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.599 think it's going to be enough to turn this around. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.600 President elect Biden has been very clear from the beginning 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.600 that he wants to have a more national approach when 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.920 it comes to fighting coronavirus. That's certainly the case when 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.320 it comes to this vaccination rollout, which of course is 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.480 going to be the foundation for getting rid of the 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.640 virus not only in the US but in the world. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.360 So he unrolled a twenty billion dollar plan to make 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.520 sure that we have a universal vaccination program in place. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.720 This is going to be critically important because it's going 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.640 to take the process away from that free for all 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.640 that we're seeing among the states and locations and really 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.680 kind of hone it in. Most critically, it's going to 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.520 give the states and locations the money that it needs 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.280 to get this work done, and in many cases, what 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.000 we've seen is the lack of money and manpower that 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.400 has made it such a challenge. Now the details of 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.920 the program are still to come, but we do know 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.200 that it's going to be a twenty billion dollar effort. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.520 It's going to involve things like helping locations rent out 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:29.880 big spaces like sports stadiums and amphitheaters, including doing things 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.840 like setting up twenty four hour vaccination clinics and even 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.640 even putting some of them on wheels, getting out some 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.640 mobile units that will be able to bring the vaccines 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.320 to the more rural and remote parts of our country 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.560 so that everybody will have access to the vaccine, not 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.000 just based on where they live. As far as the 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.160 ability to hit President elect Biden's goal, which is a 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:57.040 hundred million vaccinations in the first hundred days of his presidency, 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.200 that's going to be a little bit of a challenge. 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.680 We've already seen that we're getting closer to the rate 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.400 of one million vaccinations a day as the healthcare system 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.560 has been rolling out this process. So we are getting better, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:11.760 but there is going to be a heavy lift to 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.080 get us to the next level. Now. One of the 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.400 elements that has popped up in the news quite a 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:23.160 bit is the difficulty in storing these vaccines that level 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.840 of fragility in terms of making sure that the vaccine 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.200 is still viable. How perhaps is that contributing to some 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:34.200 of the confusion about how quickly vaccines can be distributed 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.880 and administered. One of the challenges is definitely the fact 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.599 that these first vaccines that we have are m RNA vaccines, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.719 the kind that have to be kept in subarctic temperatures. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.200 The key problem here is that once you thaw them, 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.720 they have to be used right away. You can't save 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.120 them up for later. There are stories of people who 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.000 are offered the vaccine because they're in a grocery store, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.959 or they're walking down a street close to a vaccination 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.080 clinic that has extra shots left over, and they're going 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.040 to have to throw them away, so they're out there 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.960 scrambling to give them to anyone that might be willing 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.640 to take them. For lack of better explanation, that's becoming 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.040 less and less common as the number of people who 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.880 can qualify have been increased in these locations. Understand that 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.240 they need to have a bigger number of people waiting 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.040 so that we have people waiting for the vaccine, not 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.280 the vaccine waiting for the people, So we're seeing less 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.000 and less of that. Another concern is that the vaccines 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.839 are difficult to break down into smaller lots, so they 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.280 get sent out in large numbers and you have to 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.240 vaccinate a large number of people at one time, so 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.760 it's harder to get to rural and small areas. I mean, 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.160 there does seem to be a push and pull debate 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.600 going on right now almost globally about whether to immunize 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.840 as many people as quickly as possible or making sure 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.720 the eligible people, the people in line for first, get 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.200 their doses first. Absolutely, it's exactly what we're talking about here. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.360 The issue is quantity versus quality, and it's the issue 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.520 of what's good for the global health versus what's good 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.720 for the individual health. So we know that in order 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.200 to get protection against the virus, we're going to need 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.360 to get to hurt immunity. That means at least the 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.199 population is either going to need to have been vaccinated 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.000 or to have been infected with the virus. The best 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.280 way to get to those kind of numbers is to 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.439 just open the spigots and vaccinate as many people as 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.319 you can. Let's get the line set up and just 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.120 go seven as much as you can. Use every bit 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.880 of the vaccine the minute it comes off of the 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.800 the production line, get it into someone's arms. That's the 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.079 most efficient way to get to those high numbers. The 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.520 challenge there is that there's some portions of the population 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.839 that are significantly lower risk. So if you're going to 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.800 be vaccinating people like you and need potentially who are younger, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:05.839 perhaps more healthy, don't have as many comorbidities, not living 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.480 in a nursing home, not seeing patients with coronavirus every day, 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.679 the fact that we're protected against it is going to 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.600 have less global impact on the virus itself, and it's 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.040 going to have less benefit in terms of reducing deaths, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.840 for example, because we would be already at low risk 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.360 for contracting the virus and dying from it. So the 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.840 issue is whether you really want to make sure that 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:34.480 the right people get vaccinated, which is a more difficult ask. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.600 You have to have more hurdles, you have to have 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.280 more slatting, You have to be evaluating each person as 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:44.480 opposed to just opening up the floodgates. On the other hand, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.800 if you open the floodgates, fewer of those people who 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.520 are high risk are going to be able to get vaccinated. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.040 They're going to be competing against millions and millions of 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.480 other people who need it. So it's a question of 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.040 what do you want to do. Do you want to 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.800 protect all the healthcare workers, do you want to protect 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.080 for the people who are most likely to die. Do 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.000 you want to protect first the people who are most 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.400 likely to be spreading the virus, or do you just 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.600 want to get to hurt immunity as quickly as you can. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.080 The paths to both of those things are different, and 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.360 every state, every location is trying to split the difference 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.800 here and figure out how they want to best protect 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:23.280 their populations, you know, trying to adhere to perhaps the 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.720 quality side versus the quantity side, making sure the people 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.360 most at risk are getting those doses first is a 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.600 very tall logistical order, and and there have been accusations 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:40.760 that really America's infrastructure just can't cope with this. I mean, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.080 what what is your response to that, you know, is 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:48.040 the system as it exists able to handle this incredibly 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.680 complex logistical challenge. It's a great question, and it's only 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.200 going to get worse as the numbers get bigger. I 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.600 think the challenge that we've seen early on in this 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.520 endeavor to start vaccinations is the fact that it's the 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:06.439 beginning of this massive undertaking. It's just hard to get 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.640 these shots out to people, going through the cold changed storage, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:15.040 thawing everything, handling everything in exactly the right way, knowing 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.360 which people you want to send to which nursing home, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.280 and administering all the shots. It's just tricky. And the 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.040 more that they do that, the more that our healthcare 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.960 professionals are on the front lines and getting this done, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.520 the more smoothly this process is going to happen. The 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.200 challenge is that we're going to have millions and millions 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.600 more people who are lining up and wanting this in 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.440 the days and weeks to come. We did see challenges 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.679 early on. I don't think that should have been surprising 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.880 for anyone, But really, we were only trying to vaccinate 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.040 twenty million or fewer people in these first few weeks. Now, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.360 with both the Trump administration and the Biden administration saying 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.000 that we should be trying to vaccinate everybody sixty five 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.000 and older, that's a hundred and twenty eight million people. 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.640 So the challenge is just going to be exponentially greater. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.440 That was Michelle Fake Cortez. And that's it for our 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.120 show today. For coverage of the outbreak from one hundred 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.560 and twenty bureaus around the world, visit Bloomberg dot com 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.760 slash Coronavirus and if you like the show, please leave 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.960 us a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.000 It's the best way to help more listeners find our 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.480 global reporting. The Prognosis Daily edition is produced by Topher 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.600 foreheads Magnus Henrickson and me Laura Carlson. Today's main story 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:42.080 was reported by Michelle Fake Quartets. Original music by Leo Sidrin. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.480 Our editors are Rick Shine and Francesca Levi. Francesco Levi 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.040 is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. Thanks for listening.