WEBVTT - #550 Lauren Bright Pacheco with Oscar Eagle

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<v Speaker 1>On March eighth, nineteen ninety eight, seventeen year old Oscar

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<v Speaker 1>Eagle was shot in the leg in Los Angeles' Peico

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<v Speaker 1>Union neighborhood. Six days later, sixteen year old Benjamin Eureus

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<v Speaker 1>was also shot, a non fatal wound that police believed

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<v Speaker 1>was in retaliation for Oscar's shooting. Soon police arrested Oscar Eagle,

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<v Speaker 1>but the charges were dropped when Eureus failed to appear

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<v Speaker 1>in court. Then something changed. Eureas suddenly became confident that

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar was the shooter, even though he'd always said the

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<v Speaker 1>gunman had run to and from the car. But with

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar's debilitating leg injury, could he really have done that?

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<v Speaker 1>This is wrongful conviction. The Fox Foundation is proud to

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<v Speaker 1>support this episode of wrongful conviction and the work of

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<v Speaker 1>After Innocence, a nonprofit that helps hundreds of people nationwide

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<v Speaker 1>rebuild their lives after wrongful incarceration. Each year, innocent people

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<v Speaker 1>are released after spending years behind bars for crimes they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't commit. Nearly all of them leave prison with nothing

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<v Speaker 1>more than the clothes on their backs, with no help

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<v Speaker 1>or compensation from the state, as they face the steep

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<v Speaker 1>challenges of rebuilding their lives after wrongful imprisonment. After Innocence

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<v Speaker 1>is changing that After Innocence helps exoneries get and make

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<v Speaker 1>good use of essential services like health care, dental care,

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<v Speaker 1>mental health support, legal aid, financial counseling, and more. Since

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen, they've brought that help to more than eight

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<v Speaker 1>hundred exoneries across forty six states, working tirelessly to ensure

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<v Speaker 1>that no one released after wrongful incarceration is left behind.

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<v Speaker 1>Learn more at After Dash Innocence Ditte and join After

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<v Speaker 1>Innocence to support exoneries as they rebuild their lives. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your host, Lauren Bright Pacheco,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm so glad to be back for another season.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're starting off in Los Angeles in the late

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen nineties, a time to find by gang hysteria and

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<v Speaker 1>the sweeping mass incarceration that followed. Joining me today is

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<v Speaker 1>someone who lived through it as a kid, Oscar Eagle.

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar welcome, thank you, and to help tell the story.

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<v Speaker 1>His attorney from California Innocence Advocates, Megan Bacha welcome, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>So Oscar grew up in the eighties and the nineties

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<v Speaker 1>in the Peico Union area of Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>I had two loving parents, had a sister that lived

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<v Speaker 2>with me, and I had a brother that was in

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<v Speaker 2>and out of juvenile hall camp. And she was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot older than me. It was about ten years older

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<v Speaker 2>than me. Yeah, so the family life was comfortable. My

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<v Speaker 2>dad after work, he came straight home and we wait

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<v Speaker 2>at the dinner table in the living room. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a good time growing up in the house. But outside

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<v Speaker 2>of my house was the projects in the Pickle Union.

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<v Speaker 1>Which was the main hangout for a gang called the

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<v Speaker 1>Burlington Locos.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wouldn't stand growing up looking out my window

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<v Speaker 2>watching them, you know, riding on the walls. And I

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<v Speaker 2>love art, you know, I love drawing, and probably like

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<v Speaker 2>ten years old, I got into graffiti that had to

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<v Speaker 2>continued when I got involved with gangs.

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar's graffiti tag was clown and graffiti really was the

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<v Speaker 1>extent of his criminal activity.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that drew a lot of attention to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Growing up in Pickle Union, I was always getting haarressed

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<v Speaker 2>by these cops. At one time when I was younger,

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<v Speaker 2>the LPD pulled probably about five of us on in

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<v Speaker 2>front of my house and after the cops left. All

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<v Speaker 2>my friends they started to leave. I went back to

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<v Speaker 2>my house, but in front of how some other kids

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<v Speaker 2>that lived in the neighborhood that were not gang members,

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<v Speaker 2>they gather up like about four or five Christmas trees

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<v Speaker 2>and they put it on fire, and the police showed up.

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<v Speaker 2>They took a guest and said, oh, well, Oscar was

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<v Speaker 2>just hanging out in front of the house right here.

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<v Speaker 2>They arrested me and were saying that they watched me

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<v Speaker 2>from across the street burning the Christmas trees.

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<v Speaker 1>So this was the first time that Oscar's alleged gang

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<v Speaker 1>affiliation led to false charges against him. In Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 1>at the time, there was a specialized unit called CRASH,

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<v Speaker 1>short for Community Resources against Street Hoodlums. But as we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen in other cities with heavy gang policing, when a

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood is associated with a gang, an alleged member of

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<v Speaker 1>the area's gang will usually be targeted for any crime

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<v Speaker 1>that occurs in the area, innocent or not. And most

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<v Speaker 1>gang members aren't involved in violent crime at all, like

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<v Speaker 1>graffiti artists, but they are painted with the same bra

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<v Speaker 1>criminal brush.

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<v Speaker 3>That's absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if every game member was violent, man, it

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<v Speaker 2>would be super chaotic out there, but it's only a

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<v Speaker 2>small percentage of every gang that has these type of

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<v Speaker 2>individuals that are violent, like social paths or whatever you know.

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<v Speaker 1>All So, while on probation, Oscar was targeted again while

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<v Speaker 1>at his friend Victor's house. There was a party going

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<v Speaker 1>on outside. When LAPD raided the.

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<v Speaker 2>Location, an officer put the flash light on me and

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<v Speaker 2>I heard him say to another officer that clown is

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<v Speaker 2>right here. That's what they used to call me, clown.

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<v Speaker 2>And they cut me up and they told me that

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<v Speaker 2>I was being arrested for violating my probation for hanging

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<v Speaker 2>around with Victor, who is a bursting game member. So

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<v Speaker 2>they cut me up. They threw me in that cop car.

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<v Speaker 2>As soon as we left eighteen and Union. We headed

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<v Speaker 2>down towards Venice and Union, and a guy named one

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<v Speaker 2>Carlos and Martha Torres acrossing the street, and one Carlos

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<v Speaker 2>was a game member from Drifters them up. They opened

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<v Speaker 2>up the truck of the car and they pulled something

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<v Speaker 2>out of the car, but there was a bag of something.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was marijuana or what, but

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<v Speaker 2>they say you're gonna get arrested. For this, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you said that shit in minds and they're like, get.

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<v Speaker 3>In the car.

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<v Speaker 2>And there was two eighty street Game members crossing the street.

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<v Speaker 2>They pulled up on them, chased them on foot. They

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<v Speaker 2>grabbed a hold of a guy named Weto and another

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<v Speaker 2>guy out of what the other guy's name was, and

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<v Speaker 2>they threw them in the car. Car with us went

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<v Speaker 2>to the police station. There was a lot of activity

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<v Speaker 2>going on that day. It was a lot of cops everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of people in there. They were

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<v Speaker 2>interested on the guy from at street, the guy named Wetto,

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<v Speaker 2>and they started talking to him and they were bragging

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<v Speaker 2>about they killed somebody that looked just like him.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Crash Unit Officer Nino Durden threatened Oscar with

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<v Speaker 1>firearm charges.

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<v Speaker 2>Officer Durden, he threw the mem in a room and

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<v Speaker 2>started to tell me that I was gonna go down

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<v Speaker 2>for some guns and that IU. I guess he wanted

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<v Speaker 2>me to admit the guns or something like that. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, I'm gonna do that. Man like man,

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<v Speaker 2>you me for violation probation, Just take me in and ready,

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<v Speaker 2>and I went to juvenile hall. Actually got convicted for

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<v Speaker 2>the gut charge. I got out of camp around October

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<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety seven. I believe I was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>be more mature at that time. I kept my routine up, exercising,

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<v Speaker 2>going to school, going to my community service. And on

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<v Speaker 2>March eighth, it was my niece's birthday. We celebrated her

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<v Speaker 2>birthday at my house. After that party, Bortom said it

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<v Speaker 2>and I said, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>What I'm gonna. I'm gonna go to Peak Co Union.

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<v Speaker 2>I took the bus to Pickle Union and I started

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<v Speaker 2>walking looking for the guys, and I couldn't find nobody

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<v Speaker 2>from the neighborhood. So I started walking towards the bus

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<v Speaker 2>stop on Pickle and Union to go home in Easter Day.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when I was walking over there, a car

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<v Speaker 2>pulled up and started shooting at me and immediately hit

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<v Speaker 2>me in my calf.

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar turned eighteen two days after he was shot, and

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<v Speaker 1>the wound made it very difficult for him to walk,

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<v Speaker 1>let alone run, which became a very important fact on

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<v Speaker 1>March fourteenth, when a sixteen year old kid named Benjamin

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<v Speaker 1>Urius was also shot.

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<v Speaker 4>So Arias was a sixteen year old kid who was

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<v Speaker 4>just walking in the Pico Union neighborhood of Los Angeles

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<v Speaker 4>and a car pulled up. He says that somebody jumped

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<v Speaker 4>out of the back seat yelled Burlington Locals, which is

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<v Speaker 4>the name of the local gang and one that Oscar

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<v Speaker 4>was associated with. He said that the shooter took off running,

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<v Speaker 4>which is important, chased after Arias. Arias went to hide

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<v Speaker 4>under a nearby vehicle. Ultimately, several shots went off and

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<v Speaker 4>one grazed Arisa's chest, in another his leg, and then

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<v Speaker 4>the shooter ran back to the car. Again important considering

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<v Speaker 4>that Oscar was incapable of running.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you're on crutches, right it went into your calf.

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<v Speaker 1>The bullet was still lodged there.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was still lodge right there.

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<v Speaker 4>And Arias originally told responding officers that the shooter was

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<v Speaker 4>wearing shorts. Oscar also had a drain on his legs

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<v Speaker 4>where the blood was draining out from the bullet wound,

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<v Speaker 4>and Rhea said that he didn't notice anything on the

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<v Speaker 4>shooter's leg on the strain would have been very visible.

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<v Speaker 1>But despite these disqualifying elements, they contacted Oscar under the

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<v Speaker 1>auspices of his own debilitating shooting.

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<v Speaker 2>March fifteen, I get a call from Detective Caserras. And

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<v Speaker 2>I told you guys already that I didn't see who

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<v Speaker 2>shot me. I don't have nothing else to say to

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<v Speaker 2>you guys. He goes, well, we need to close that

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<v Speaker 2>case up and we need you to pretty much like

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<v Speaker 2>sign off on it or something like that. And then

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<v Speaker 2>on March seventeen, he showed up right away. He looked

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<v Speaker 2>at my leg and seeing that I was on crutches,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's like, hey, you can't walk, and I go, nah,

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<v Speaker 2>could you put your foot to the floor And I

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<v Speaker 2>said nah, my calf locked and I wasn't able to

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<v Speaker 2>stretch my leg or nothing. He told me, hey, you

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<v Speaker 2>know Junior from at Street and I was like no,

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<v Speaker 2>and he goes, well, he knows you.

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<v Speaker 1>The guy he's calling Junior is Benjamin.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yes, yes, And I was like, maybe I do

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<v Speaker 3>know him. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up right there in people in Union. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know him personally. Maybe we see each other around.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's like, well, he's saying that you shot up.

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<v Speaker 2>I go, don't know what it's talking about. So he

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I don't think he did, because I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>at your leg and I don't think you're capable of

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<v Speaker 2>doing this crime.

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<v Speaker 1>It later became clear that neither did the victim, Benjamin Urias,

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<v Speaker 1>but Oscar was affiliated with the Burlington Locos, so they

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<v Speaker 1>brought him in anyway, and he told them exactly where

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<v Speaker 1>he was during the shooting at the hospital with his

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<v Speaker 1>friend Becky Chavez, whose friend Susie had gone into an

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<v Speaker 1>early and false labor.

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<v Speaker 2>I went to the hospital like all day. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>going back and forth to drink water. I remember the

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<v Speaker 2>camera being right above the water, found it and then

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<v Speaker 2>the security I remember him being a short black officer,

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<v Speaker 2>So I was like, go talk to that security guard,

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<v Speaker 2>go get the camera right there, and didn't do none

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<v Speaker 2>of that. They called Becky Chavis, who I was with

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<v Speaker 2>that night, so she got down there. They put Becky

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<v Speaker 2>in a room, they questioned her, and she just verified

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<v Speaker 2>the same thing that I told him, and they came

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<v Speaker 2>out and they put me in front of her and

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<v Speaker 2>they asked me, you better say you did it, because

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<v Speaker 2>if not, Becky, job is going to go down for

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<v Speaker 2>this tool. And I was like, man, why are you

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<v Speaker 2>doing this to us? She told me like, don't listen

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<v Speaker 2>to these cops, you know. So I told Becky, Becky, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna have to get arrested too, because you know

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't I didn't do this crime.

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<v Speaker 3>And then I've seen her walk out, and then.

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<v Speaker 2>It took me a week or two to get a

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<v Speaker 2>public defender to come visit me at the Ali County.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one of the first things I told him, Man,

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<v Speaker 2>go get the footage from the hospital. And my first

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<v Speaker 2>two courts, I was going in crutches. And then on

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<v Speaker 2>the third court day the case got.

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<v Speaker 1>Dismissed because Junior didn't show up.

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<v Speaker 3>He didn't show up.

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<v Speaker 1>In order to indict Oscar again, they were gonna need

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<v Speaker 1>the victims cooperation. But there's a record of this new

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<v Speaker 1>interaction with ben Urius which appears to shed light on

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<v Speaker 1>why he hadn't shown up to the prior court proceedings

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<v Speaker 1>and also why he was now open to suggestion.

0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 4>So we don't have a recording of the first lineup,

0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.840
<v Speaker 4>and we don't know precisely what happened there, but it's

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.840
<v Speaker 4>really clear from the recording of the second lineup that

0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.920
<v Speaker 4>police definitely pushed Areas into selecting Oscar.

0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Ureus also repeatedly asked if they were going to help

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>him on his other case, and six times the new detectives,

0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Muriel and Wiseman, assured him they'd get him on home

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:42.400
<v Speaker 1>confinement instead of juvenile camp. Interestingly, these new detectives were

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 1>from the homicide unit, even though this wasn't a homicide.

0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.720
<v Speaker 1>They asked Ureus if he knew his shooter's name, and

0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Urreus said, quote, they said, Oscar Eagle. Then he's shown

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:59.360
<v Speaker 1>a lineup with Oscar in position four. Urreus denied recognizing

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 1>his shooter. Detective Muriel urged him, quote, take a closer

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 1>look at it there. Again, Urius didn't make an identification silence.

0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Then Uria says, quote looks sort of looks. Murl cut

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 1>him off, quote like number four.

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 4>And then Oria says the number that they had pointed

0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.840
<v Speaker 4>to that the police pointed to in the lineup. I

0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.640
<v Speaker 4>don't know why they were so focused on Oscar or

0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 4>why police didn't bother investigating other alternative suspects, but it

0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.000
<v Speaker 4>seems that once they had their eyes set on Oscar,

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.120
<v Speaker 4>they just weren't going to take anything else other than Oscar.

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.440
<v Speaker 1>So, you know, just to show how crazy this was

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 1>at the time of your trial, forget about Becky, They've

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 1>pulled in another woman randomly a young woman named Martha

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Torres who's twenty years old, just happened to be from

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood. And now they're claiming that she was driving

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:04.439
<v Speaker 1>the car that you were in the night Junior was shot.

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:09.120
<v Speaker 1>And now they twisted so that the motive is that

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 1>you're shooting Junior in retaliation for you being shot, and

0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 1>that Torres is motivated by the fact that her brother

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 1>was murdered by a member of the same rival gang,

0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.000
<v Speaker 1>and none of it's true.

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 2>And her brother was not even a Births and Game member.

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Her brother was from another different gang called Drifters, but

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 2>they made it seem like he was from a neighborhood too,

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh man, this guy's not even

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 2>from my neighborhood.

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 1>And then the saddest part is she, like you, is

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>completely innocent, but they talk her into taking a plea

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>deal for five years.

0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Miss Torres, I think made the right decision. Unfortunately,

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.360
<v Speaker 4>even though she was innocent, because she was facing life

0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 4>as well, I mean, she could have ended up doing

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 4>more than twenty six years like Oscar as well. So

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 4>she began trial with Oscar. Part Way through the beginning

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 4>of trial, she separately took a plea deal, and the

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 4>judge had to instruct the jury that they weren't supposed

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 4>to draw any conclusions. By Miss Torres no longer being

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 4>part of Oscar's trial. You know, Miss Torres still maintains

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 4>her innocence and there was no evidence against her. She

0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 4>had never driven, she didn't have a driver's license, she

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 4>didn't know how to drive. Her friend's father happened to

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 4>own a vehicle that looked similar to the one Areas described.

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 4>That's it.

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 1>So Martha Torres did the math and did not like

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 1>her odds. But Oscar's appointed attorney, Patrick Lake, gave him confidence.

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 2>He started to tell me that he talked to my alibis,

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.000
<v Speaker 2>he talked to my doctor. He said that they all

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 2>confirm and verify my story and that we're good and

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 2>we got a strong case right here. And also the

0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 2>joys that we're going to be in front of is

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>a band from school or something like that.

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 1>But it seems like Patrick Lake had given Oscar false confidence.

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.280
<v Speaker 4>So a trial against Oscar. There was the test money

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 4>of Benjamin Arias, and by the time of trial he

0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 4>was much more confident that it was Oscar. He wasn't

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:13.600
<v Speaker 4>cross examined thoroughly. It seems that maybe Oscar's defense council

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 4>hadn't listened to the audio recorded police interview, because if

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 4>he had, then it's inexplicable why he wouldn't have cross

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 4>examined him on the inconsistencies that Rias didn't originally pick

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.720
<v Speaker 4>out Oscar, that the police directed him to pick out Oscar.

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 4>In fact, they said, how about this one.

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 2>He's the quiet, he's the quiet, and I was like,

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.560
<v Speaker 2>the hell, Like, you're not going to speak for me.

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 2>And then I told him he is the doctor going

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.120
<v Speaker 2>to show up and he goes, oh, he'll be here tomorrow.

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.479
<v Speaker 4>There was that there was testimony from police officers, including

0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 4>you know, gang investigators, which is scary for the jury

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 4>to hear about gang members in their community.

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 3>And I had all two tattoos.

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 2>So when I was in trout, they had like poster

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>size pictures and that's deftly part of the stand and

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 2>starts saying, oh, these are old English type letters, and

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, she's start telling professional opinion. I was like, oh,

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.120
<v Speaker 2>this is they're just trying to just any little things,

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:05.399
<v Speaker 2>just to.

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Just anything they could do to make you look.

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Bad, just look like an animal. And Patrick Lake, he

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.159
<v Speaker 2>doesn't talk again, and I'm like, hey, man, what's going on?

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:13.400
<v Speaker 4>Man?

0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Go I'm preparing. I'm preparing. So I told me what's

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:18.160
<v Speaker 3>up with the doctors? He's showing up?

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 2>And he said, yeah, he'll be here tomorrow and said,

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 2>you told me that yesterday. Every day he kept telling

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 2>me that, and the next thing know, the cases almost

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 2>over with and and I'm like, hey, where's the doctor

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 2>at Oh, he's not going to show up.

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like your representation didn't prepare at all. You

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.639
<v Speaker 1>only had one witness called in your defense, and that

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.720
<v Speaker 1>was Becky. I'm gonna throw it to you, Megan. When

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:47.439
<v Speaker 1>you looked into the witnesses that Patrick Lake claimed to

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 1>have contacted for his defense, what did you find.

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.680
<v Speaker 4>Well, we spoke to the friend that had false labor

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.360
<v Speaker 4>that day that Oscar went to go see in the hospital,

0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.040
<v Speaker 4>and she absolutely remembered this day she was in the

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.919
<v Speaker 4>hospital for false flabor, So that's documented. She said Patrick

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 4>Lake had never interviewed her or her mother, and when

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.440
<v Speaker 4>Patrick Lake said that he left a message on their

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 4>answering machine, she says they didn't even have an answering

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 4>machine back then. That she absolutely would have appeared at

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 4>trial had she been called to do so, but she

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 4>wasn't even interviewed. Quite simply, he didn't interview witnesses. He

0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.920
<v Speaker 4>didn't call these witnesses that were so crucial. And then

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.679
<v Speaker 4>in fact, it's very apparent that he lied to the

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.600
<v Speaker 4>court about having interviewed these witnesses. You know, he stood up,

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 4>he looked around court and said, I don't see them here.

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't know why they're not here to testify. Well,

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.080
<v Speaker 4>because he hadn't bothered to even talk to them.

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.480
<v Speaker 1>And then at one point I think the judge said,

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 1>we'll give you twenty more minutes.

0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.119
<v Speaker 4>So even when the judge gave an additional twenty minutes,

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.160
<v Speaker 4>even if Patrick had called, then she would have been

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 4>completely unprepared. She probably in LA. She wouldn't even be

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 4>able to get to the courthouse in that amount of time.

0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.359
<v Speaker 2>My mom passed me a NOE that morning. She said,

0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.960
<v Speaker 2>fire your lawyer, like this guy do nothing for you.

0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 2>He didn't even contact your alibies. I raised my hand

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 2>and the judge was like, what are you doing? And

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, man, I want to fire this guy. And

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.000
<v Speaker 2>he's like, well, hold on, hold on, and he took

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 2>everybody out the court. Room, and he said, you're doing

0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:12.639
<v Speaker 2>a Marston motion or something like that, and I was like,

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:14.439
<v Speaker 2>I'll go I don't know what that is. I just

0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.840
<v Speaker 2>want to fire this guy because he hasn't been representing me.

0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 2>And he goes, Oh, you just don't like the way

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>your trial's going, and so you just want to get

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:22.720
<v Speaker 2>rid of your lawyer. He goes, it doesn't work that way,

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, sit back down. So I was like, man,

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 2>let me take the stand in. I was like, man,

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 2>at least let me show the jurors because they're going

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:29.639
<v Speaker 2>to see the whole of my leg and they're going

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 2>to be like, oh, man, this guy wasn't able to

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 2>do this crime. As soon as I got up on

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.719
<v Speaker 2>that stand, I just felt attacked by the DA and

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.960
<v Speaker 2>then next thing you know, it was go sit back down.

0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.920
<v Speaker 2>So I turned around and told the judge, Hey, Judge,

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I show my leg to the jurors.

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.360
<v Speaker 3>He said, now go back and sit down.

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.399
<v Speaker 4>Patrick Lake could have asked to show that to the jury,

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 4>but Oscar, as the witness at that time, can't just

0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 4>turn around and ask to judge, hey, let me show

0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 4>my leg.

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>And then a detective takes a stand. He holds up

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 1>two pictures. One is you holding a gun, no context

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 1>of where or when it was taken. The other one

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.920
<v Speaker 1>is you standing next to somebody holding a gun. And

0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.719
<v Speaker 1>on March twelfth, nineteen ninety nine, you were convicted of

0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:16.360
<v Speaker 1>attempted first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison

0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>plus twenty five years.

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.880
<v Speaker 2>At that moment, you know, I was stoic and shocked.

0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know how to react, but I.

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 3>Just remember my brother. She was right behind me.

0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I heard her cry. When I heard her cry,

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:43.120
<v Speaker 2>I turned around. The judge was talking and I didn't

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 2>hear nothing at all. I just just my brother. I

0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>was feeling double. She said, she was feeling you know,

0:20:50.800 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 2>they're separating us for life. My mom I stopped drinking

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 2>when I was probably about twelve thirteen years old.

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 3>She made me a promise that she wasn't gonna drink

0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:15.880
<v Speaker 3>no more. And after I.

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Got convicted, I started hearing that she was drinking and

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what the hell there? And I knew

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I knew it was it was because of.

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:30.440
<v Speaker 1>People, because of what was done to you.

0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:39.920
<v Speaker 1>You then ended up entering California's adult prison system as

0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:40.679
<v Speaker 1>a teenager.

0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I got there at nineteen years old. I didn't know

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.160
<v Speaker 2>how to sell it at that time. It was twenty

0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:49.120
<v Speaker 2>four hour lockdown, sometimes going years and year's lockdown.

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 3>It was a biling. It was riots.

0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:53.920
<v Speaker 2>When I got there to Pelican Bay, there was a

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>big riots and a fair way of two thousand and

0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I ended up going to the ads say for that

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 2>for sixteen months, and then I ended up in ire

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Was state prison.

0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 3>I found a good program right.

0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.880
<v Speaker 2>There in a completed computer class, and I started having

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:08.800
<v Speaker 2>a border job.

0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.080
<v Speaker 3>And I always been drawing, you know, that was my thought.

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 2>So I used to tell my mom those semi money,

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>just buy me my art supplies and I'll figure out

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:16.879
<v Speaker 2>how to get money.

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.840
<v Speaker 1>While Oscar's early appeals failed, the LAPD was still reeling

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 1>from what became known as the Rampart scandal. It began

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>with a nineteen ninety seven road rage incident, but exploded

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the following summer when crash unit officer Rafael Perez was

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:37.080
<v Speaker 1>caught stealing cocaine from an evidence locker and selling it

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:41.919
<v Speaker 1>nearly eight hundred thousand dollars worth to save himself. Perez

0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 1>turned state's witness and became a whistleblower, exposing everything Oscar

0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:53.360
<v Speaker 1>had already experienced and more brutality, planted evidence, perjury, drug trafficking,

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.639
<v Speaker 1>bank robbery cover ups, and even ties to organized crime.

0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Perez also revealed the officers would gather at a bar

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.400
<v Speaker 1>near Dodgers Stadium to celebrate their shootings, handing out red

0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 1>cards for a wound and black cards for a kill.

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:15.919
<v Speaker 1>Perez implicated at least seventy officers, including crash officer Nino Durden,

0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 1>and how he had engineered the false firearm charge against

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 1>then sixteen year old Oscar Eagle, but that was a

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.959
<v Speaker 1>different crime, so Oscar remained behind bars for yet another

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:30.639
<v Speaker 1>crime he did not commit.

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.240
<v Speaker 2>My mom died in two thousand and seven, and after

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.080
<v Speaker 2>her death, I went into the depression and I couldn't

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:40.720
<v Speaker 2>snap out of it. I was breeving. I started making

0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 2>poor decisions. Eventually, the squad unit came in and the

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:45.639
<v Speaker 2>gaffled me up. They had searched my cell and they

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>found an address book. I had an address to Gigi

0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Gordon that was helping me in my case years prior,

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 2>and she happy to have a client that was a

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 2>member of the Mexican mafia.

0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:57.760
<v Speaker 3>And they said that.

0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.639
<v Speaker 2>I was using her as a third part dropped to

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.000
<v Speaker 2>connect with the mesic of mafia. So they sent me

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to the whole You're.

0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:09.359
<v Speaker 1>Again like falsely accused and you get thrown pretty much

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 1>in solitary for six years.

0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I just would think that, man, I must be cursed.

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 2>You know that that night marries got worse and worse.

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And so I was like, man, you guys are just stretching.

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>You guys are just stretching to validate me or to

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.399
<v Speaker 2>break me or something. And I got a visit from

0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:30.679
<v Speaker 2>my dad when I was in essay. That was the

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:33.400
<v Speaker 2>last time I see them. I told me that they're

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:38.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to they're trying to break me in here, and yeah,

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>he just said, he said, oh, you know, don't break.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Just believe in a higher power, man, just don't break.

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:46.720
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned that that was the last time you saw

0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 1>your father, because unfortunately both of your parents passed while

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 1>you were incarcerated. What at that point kept you from

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:58.440
<v Speaker 1>giving up hope completely?

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 3>I was in the shoe.

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>We end up having a hunger strike, and the result

0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:06.680
<v Speaker 2>of the hunger strikes that we went through, they start

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 2>to release suspect to the general population. I started to

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:13.160
<v Speaker 2>see the GP as freedom, you know, So I was like,

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:14.520
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, I'm going to go.

0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:15.440
<v Speaker 3>Back to the mainline.

0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 2>I always loved running laps, so I was like, man,

0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 2>I could go out there and run again, you know,

0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:21.880
<v Speaker 2>like I could get into school and try to get

0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:24.119
<v Speaker 2>an education, and.

0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:27.760
<v Speaker 1>With greater freedom of movement and access to educational materials.

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:30.640
<v Speaker 1>He was able to submit his case to the Conviction

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:35.159
<v Speaker 1>Review Unit under Jackie Lacy, the LA District attorney at

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 1>the time, but citing that it was submitted with no

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:43.200
<v Speaker 1>new evidence, he was denied a reinvestigation, so Oscar had

0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>to wait for the election of George Gascon in order

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 1>to resubmit his case, around which point Megan got involved.

0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:54.720
<v Speaker 4>I was actually at a transitional house at an event

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:58.000
<v Speaker 4>for other clients, and I was approached by a couple

0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:02.399
<v Speaker 4>of Oscar's friends. They had with them an entire file

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:06.080
<v Speaker 4>full of things, and they sat me down and showed me.

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.919
<v Speaker 4>During this party, they ended up showing me all this

0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 4>evidence and how Raphael Press had admitted that they had

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 4>essentially placed at false gun charge on Oscar to begin with.

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 4>And what really drew me to his case was it

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 4>doesn't seem that Arias ever really identified Oscar until the

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:30.919
<v Speaker 4>police pointed him to do so. So I had been

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:34.680
<v Speaker 4>working in other cases with doctor Wicksted. He's an eyewitness

0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:38.199
<v Speaker 4>identification expert, and there is a new consensus in the

0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:42.920
<v Speaker 4>eyewitness identification scientific community, and I thought that Oscar's case

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 4>fell perfectly in line with that. So I was gathering

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:50.240
<v Speaker 4>everything that we needed. I went to the offices of

0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 4>Gig Gordon, whose Gordon has passed away. I contacted all

0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:57.639
<v Speaker 4>of Oscar's prior council and got materials from the California

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 4>Court of Appeal. That all takes a lot of time

0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:04.120
<v Speaker 4>to gather the materials. In the meantime, the LA District

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 4>Attorney's office, well, Oscar was blessed. I'll just say that

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:12.000
<v Speaker 4>because there was a Deputy District Attorney in Los Angeles

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:17.800
<v Speaker 4>who is behind I think seven exonerations. Now. She really

0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 4>believed in these cases and incorporated the eyewitness identification consensus

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:26.359
<v Speaker 4>into most of them. She has now gone on to

0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 4>become a judge, which is a great loss to the

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 4>innocence community. But she ended up looking at the case

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 4>as well, so she and I actually ended up working

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:40.160
<v Speaker 4>on the case together. We interviewed witnesses together. I flew

0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 4>to northern California to interview Benjamin Arius, who was actually

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:49.480
<v Speaker 4>incarcerated at that time, interviewed him with some attorney investigators

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:51.960
<v Speaker 4>as well, and it just seems so clear that there

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 4>was no evidence against Oscar. The only evidence was this

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.040
<v Speaker 4>quote unquote identification by Arius, which never existed.

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Baca and the DA's Habeas Corpus litigation office together filed

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>a joint writ arguing that Oscar's conviction was the result

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:13.480
<v Speaker 1>of ineffective counsel for all the reasons we've already discussed.

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:18.199
<v Speaker 1>His attorney had failed to impeach Benjamin Urius or Detective Muriel,

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:23.119
<v Speaker 1>with the audio recording of the flawed identification process, ignored

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:28.439
<v Speaker 1>the issue of Urius's unrelated criminal case, did not present

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 1>more alibi witnesses or supporting evidence. Most critically, the defense

0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:38.880
<v Speaker 1>never introduced proof of Oscar's compromised physical condition or called

0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 1>his doctor to testify that given his injuries, he could

0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 1>not have committed this crime.

0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 4>So, although the ineffective assistance of counsel is what led

0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:54.480
<v Speaker 4>Oscar to be wrongfully convicted in the first place, Elisa

0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:56.960
<v Speaker 4>meant that some of this evidence that we were able

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 4>to use to prove his innocence wasn't already used in

0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:02.880
<v Speaker 4>the past, so that we couldn't, you know, bring that

0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 4>up again post conviction.

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>And relatively speaking, once you got involved, it was pretty fast.

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:13.400
<v Speaker 4>It was really fast. And again that is thanks to

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:17.520
<v Speaker 4>Dia Laura bazign of the LA District Attorney's office. She

0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 4>was in the conviction integrity unit and then went over

0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:23.680
<v Speaker 4>to the habeas litigation unit. And you know, if she

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:28.280
<v Speaker 4>hadn't been working with us jointly, then this would have

0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:29.560
<v Speaker 4>taken years and years.

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:35.160
<v Speaker 1>On July tenth, twenty twenty five, Oscar's conviction was vacated.

0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 4>Once he was out, we got to meet face to

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 4>face for the first time, and now he's my next

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:41.000
<v Speaker 4>door neighbor.

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:48.400
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. You know, the Los Angeles Times did basically

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 1>where are they now in terms of all the different

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:58.600
<v Speaker 1>people who contributed to this wrongful conviction and the LAPD

0:29:58.760 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 1>spokesperson had no comment on it. Others denied wrongdoing. You know,

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:06.800
<v Speaker 1>even Patrick Lake, your attorney, who claims he doesn't even

0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:12.880
<v Speaker 1>remember your case. I want to ask about accountability. What

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:15.720
<v Speaker 1>does accountability mean in a case like this.

0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I just don't see them taking accountability. I should think,

0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:24.000
<v Speaker 2>like man, I wonder sooner or later are they going

0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 2>to step up and say, you know what, I did

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 2>something wrong back then. You know, I gotta get off

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the streets in But I'm not the only one. There's

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.280
<v Speaker 2>other guys still stuck in there from the rap par scandal.

0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:38.440
<v Speaker 2>I would love to see these officers have integrity and

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:40.480
<v Speaker 2>do the right things, but I don't think it's going to.

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 4>Happen no matter how we hold the people responsible to account.

0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 4>Oscar lost his entire twenties and thirties to prison. He

0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 4>wasn't there when either of his parents passed away, and

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:54.840
<v Speaker 4>there's absolutely nothing to get him that time back. I

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:58.920
<v Speaker 4>think that the state bar should take these cases more

0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 4>seriously when they is such egregious, ineffective assistance, just simply

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:08.840
<v Speaker 4>no evidence put on that was very apparent and readily available.

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 4>I also think that qualified immunity is a huge issue.

0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 4>I don't see how prosecutors or police can ever really

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 4>be held accountable so long as there's this immunity. I

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:27.880
<v Speaker 4>also think that even all of these years later, even

0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:31.040
<v Speaker 4>when district attorney's offices are willing to do the right thing,

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 4>and they you know, they get so much credit for me.

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm so grateful to them. You know, even in Oscar's case,

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:39.920
<v Speaker 4>the elected DA of La County showed up and appeared

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:43.960
<v Speaker 4>on the record in his case, which is huge. However,

0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, the police still aren't held to account for

0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:52.200
<v Speaker 4>the wrongdoing. And the problem is the police are the

0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 4>investigating agency for the District Attorney's office. I mean they

0:31:56.160 --> 0:31:59.479
<v Speaker 4>work together, they work hand in hand. Police unions don'tate

0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:05.800
<v Speaker 4>to prosecutorial elections. Aside from overhauling the system completely, I

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.440
<v Speaker 4>don't know how we can ever prevent this sort of

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 4>thing from happening again, considering that they work so closely together.

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 1>And when people say, oh, well, they're settlements and there's

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 1>money paid, that money is not coming from the people

0:32:21.720 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 1>who caused the wrongful conviction. That's not accountability. That's society

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:34.200
<v Speaker 1>basically trying to pay off to protect the people in power.

0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 4>Right right, That's coming from the taxpayers.

0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 1>So with that, we're going to close out this interview

0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:47.000
<v Speaker 1>by asking our audience to support Megan's organization. They're out

0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>there doing the work necessary to finally bring about some

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 1>measure of justice in these cases. So we're going to

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 1>link California Innocent's advocates in the episode description. Please donate,

0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 1>follow them on social media, or otherwise get involved. And

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:04.520
<v Speaker 1>now I'm just going to thank you both for sharing

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 1>this story with us before I leave the floor to

0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>you for any final thoughts.

0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:15.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I will say that I am consistently shocked by

0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 4>how little evidence needs to be put on for a

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 4>jury to convict. I don't think that people understand the

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.760
<v Speaker 4>burden of beyond a reasonable doubt. And when the crime

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:31.880
<v Speaker 4>is allegedly gang motivated and they have gang investigators coming

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:34.600
<v Speaker 4>up and testifying, it just sort of scares the jury

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 4>into let's lock up whoever, because it sounds like, you know, hoodlums.

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:42.800
<v Speaker 4>It's all these hoodlums out there destroying our communities, like

0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 4>the crash units.

0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.400
<v Speaker 1>I was just about to say, like the crash unit

0:33:47.000 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 1>street hoodlum.

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 4>That's right, even though in Oscar's case, what he was

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 4>doing was artwork on walls. He was doing graffiti. You know,

0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:58.000
<v Speaker 4>he wasn't out shooting people. But they lump them all

0:33:58.040 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 4>into being sort of the same, and that, you know,

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:03.440
<v Speaker 4>anybody that's getting associated just having grown up in that neighborhood,

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:06.160
<v Speaker 4>they're necessarily evil and violent.

0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I just want to let people know that, you know,

0:34:09.760 --> 0:34:12.120
<v Speaker 2>our system is bad, you know, like they don't need

0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:16.480
<v Speaker 2>concrete evidence or direct evidence to find you guilty. Here,

0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:20.839
<v Speaker 2>it's like they don't take a human life serious, you know.

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:24.759
<v Speaker 2>And I just tell people just to be more open

0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 2>minded and look beyond somebody's image because it's easy for

0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:36.160
<v Speaker 2>a district attorney, it's easy for a police officer to

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:38.440
<v Speaker 2>draw a negative image to somebody.

0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:39.320
<v Speaker 3>That's understand.

0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:43.840
<v Speaker 2>We take their word as gold, and they got to

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:47.640
<v Speaker 2>be able to see behind the words. When you make

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.600
<v Speaker 2>a person into a monster and an animal, it's real

0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:53.160
<v Speaker 2>easy to convict them as soon as you have that

0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:54.240
<v Speaker 2>thought in your mind.

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:05.759
<v Speaker 1>to this and all Lava for Good podcasts one week

0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 1>early and add free by subscribing to Lava for Good

0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:12.399
<v Speaker 1>Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'd like to thank our production team,

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as executive producers

0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Jason Vlahm, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Clyburn. The

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:22.360
<v Speaker 1>music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR

0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:25.400
<v Speaker 1>nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across

0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:28.359
<v Speaker 1>all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at

0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at

0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Lauren Bright Pacheco. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 1>for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 2>We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:43.480
<v Speaker 2>in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed

0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:45.839
<v Speaker 2>by the individuals featured in this show are their own

0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:48.719
<v Speaker 2>and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good