1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day three hundred 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: and fifty six since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Today's main story. Demand for the Fiser vaccine from everywhere 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: in the world far outstrips supply. That means the company 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: has made tough decisions about how much to supply to 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: different countries, and many world leaders aren't happy about the 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: way they've done it. But first, here's what happened in 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: virus news today. People in the US are warming to 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: the idea of getting a vaccine. A Pew Research poll 10 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: shows COVID nineteen vaccine hesitancy in the country is ebbing, 11 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: But the same study shows that partisan differences in people's 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: intention to get vaccinated is widening. In November, thirty nine 13 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: percent of people said they probably or definitely wouldn't get 14 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: a shot. That number declined to thirty percent in February. 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: About three quarters agree that widespread vaccination would help the economy. 16 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: The Republicans are less prone to that view than Democrats. 17 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: The vaccine, being developed by Astra Zenica and Oxford University, 18 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: appears to protect against the Brazilian variant of the disease. 19 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: A person familiar with the matter told Reuters the shot 20 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: will not need to be modified to protect against the 21 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: Brazil P one variant. Results come from a study by 22 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Oxford University that has not yet been made public. Finally, 23 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Canada's Public Health Agency licensed Johnson and Johnson's coronavirus vaccine, 24 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: making it the fourth shot available in the country. Anada 25 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: is struggling to keep up with its group of seven 26 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: peers on inoculations. Canada has an agreement to purchase thirty 27 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: eight million shots from the New Jersey based company. The 28 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: one dose J and J shot could help Prime Minister 29 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau achieve his target of vaccinating every Canadian that 30 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: wants one by September. And now, for today's main story, 31 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: vaccine distribution still has the feel of a zero sum game. 32 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: Five days after Israel received seven hundred thousand doses of 33 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: the Fiser bio and Tech vaccine, Fiser told other non 34 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: u as customers that it would cut supplies while it 35 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: briefly closed a facility in Belgium. The disparity in vaccine 36 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: allocation is the product of a company struggling to apportion 37 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: doses while demand our exceeds supply. I spoke with Stephanie 38 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: Baker and Cynthia Coons, who reported for Bloomberg Business Week 39 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: that the company has determined how many doses a country 40 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: gets through an opaque process that appears to involve a 41 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: mix of border size, position in the queue, production forecasts, 42 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: calls from world leaders, and of course, the desire to 43 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: make a profit. Vaccine programs have begun to roll out 44 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: in earnest throughout the US and across much of Europe. 45 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: Many states are discussing opening eligibility to younger and younger demographics, 46 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: but many still are awaiting their first shots. Now, this 47 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: situation is a pretty stark contrast to what's happening in Israel, 48 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: for example, which you know, currently holds the record of 49 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: having administered the most COVID vaccine doses per capita than 50 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: any other country in the world. And just to start 51 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: off with, you know, what are some of the factors 52 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: that have accounted for Israel's incredibly accelerated vaccine distribution. You know, Israel, 53 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: of course has been a world leader in vaccination, and 54 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: that is in part due to fiser Uh and the 55 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: deal that Israeli's Prime Minister Benjamin Nettiyah, who struck with 56 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: Visor's CEO Albert Borla. Israel was prioritized for two reasons. 57 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: Really one um it paid more, paid almost thirty dollars 58 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: a dose, which was about fifty more than the US paid. 59 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: And to it, it offered to almost exclusively use the 60 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: Fiser vaccine in order to generate a real world effectiveness 61 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: study to show how the vaccine works in a much 62 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: larger group of people than in the control controlled trials. 63 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: And this has generated a stream of positive headlines about 64 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: how effective the Visor vaccine is, which has only helped 65 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: Fiser as its um marketed at the COVID vaccine worldwide UM. 66 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: And it came at a time when europe um was 67 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: being short changed with vaccines because Visor needed to shut 68 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: down its Belgian production facility in order to boost production 69 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: long term. But that that shutdown lasted for about two weeks, 70 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: and you know, while Israel was being supplied with millions 71 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: of doses of vaccines europe, European supplies were cut and 72 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: you know that had a huge effect on Europe's vaccine rollout. Now, Stephanie, 73 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: you mentioned Viser CEO Albert Borla, and I'm wondering what 74 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: specifically his role was in this negotiation of vaccine supply 75 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: and kind of an accelerated timeline with regard to israel I. Mean, 76 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: what overall does he have control over when when kind 77 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: of negotiating which countries will receive Visor's vaccine first and 78 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: and the wanted to use will receive. You know, that's 79 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: a good question. You know, he told us that UM, 80 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: he was more focused on UM the scientific efforts to 81 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: develop a new COVID vaccine against the new variants and 82 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: some of the scientific developments on make it easier to 83 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: store Visor's vaccine, which needs to be kept at sub 84 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: arctic temperatures. But at the same time, during the past 85 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: six months he turned into this kind of quasi statesman, 86 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: holding talks with world leaders UM, including you know, he 87 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: spoke to Israeli's Prime Minister Benjamin Natanya, who more than 88 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: twenty times, and Natanya who bragged that he was able 89 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: to get Borla to take his call even at two am. UM. 90 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: He went on to have you know, talks with the 91 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: European Commission President Ursula vonder lyand who called and complained 92 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: when FISER announced its cut. In mid January, he had 93 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: talks with UH, the Canadian leader Justin Trudeau, who was 94 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: also upset that Canada had been cut um. You know, 95 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: so he occupies this very uh strange position right now 96 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: where he's the CEO of a pharma giant, but you know, 97 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: he is involved in politics, um, whether he likes it 98 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: or not. And of course this effort in Israel came 99 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: out of crucial time for Netan Yahoo, who was facing 100 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: re election in March um and it's very much positioned 101 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: his COVID vaccination campaign as part of his political campaign, 102 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: and you know, arguably has boosted his chances of re election. 103 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: We're often talking about FISER because it very obviously it 104 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: was first out of the gate, and understandably this allowed 105 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: to make these kinds of deals with the governments of 106 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: as we've been saying, Israel, obviously, the US and beyond. 107 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering about the logistics of how it was 108 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: able to achieve this goal in terms of the amount 109 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: of investment it did of its own money in research 110 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: and development, how this has affected negotiating deals with governments 111 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: and and in particular setting prices for doses. Yeah, Visor 112 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: is unique in particular because they decided not to take 113 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: money from Operation Warp Speed, which was the US government 114 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: program that gave money to manufacturers in order to help 115 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: spur vaccine development and invest in manufacturing, etcetera. Visor didn't 116 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: didn't need that money, but arguably other large companies that 117 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: didn't need that money participated and took some and so 118 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: that was sort of a public private partnership, if you will, 119 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: just to get vaccines going. And the US created essentially 120 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: created a market for vaccines. And what they did, though, 121 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: was there with the US, was that the US had 122 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: an advanced purchase order, so the US was going to 123 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: be able to buy something around the tune of two 124 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: billion dollars worth of vaccine. So the US put money 125 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: on the table and Fiser had a market. And that's 126 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: really important too. It's not insignificant. It still means that 127 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: they're incentivized to create a vaccine because there's someone who's 128 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: on the other end who's going to buy it if 129 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: it works. But it's not the same thing as the 130 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: government being involved in their day to day getting reports 131 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: and updates on their manufacturing. And I think this explains 132 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: some of the snags they hit, at least in the US, 133 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: because the government didn't have the insight into their manufacturing 134 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: that they did with their competitors. So for for Fiser, 135 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: they've said they spent about two billion dollars developing this 136 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: drugs are vaccines very expensive to develop, especially the trials, 137 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: the huge trials, which is why a lot of their 138 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: competitors would have taken money from the government. So Fiser 139 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: basically stood a bit apart from the pack and that 140 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: did allow it to negotiate in a different way, perhaps 141 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: even allowed it to go around the world and start 142 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: striking contracts quite early, because say Maderna, for example, which 143 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: was authorized by the d at the same time as Visor, 144 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: just around the same time, they had taken substantially more 145 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: government government money and they have not done the number 146 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: of deals that Viser has done around the world. But 147 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: they're also a smaller company. Advisor is already globally, already 148 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: has a global footprint, so they had that advantage, and 149 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: that brings up an interesting question about profit. What has 150 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: Flier said regarding how much it is expecting to make 151 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: from its vaccines and how does this contrast perhaps with 152 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: some of the other drugmakers, say Maderna and whatnot. So 153 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: Fiser has said it expects initial profit margins in the 154 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: high twenty percent range, which is high for a vaccine 155 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: during the pandemic. This is they're they're looking at it 156 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: in terms of pandemic pricing, that they could look at 157 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: increasing that price after the pandemic is over, when people 158 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: have a choice of what vaccine they want and they 159 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: believe they have, you know, high brand recognition, why be 160 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: regarded as a very highly effective vaccine and that people 161 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: will want it over some of the other vaccines. In contrast, 162 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: you have manufacturers like Astra Zenica that has promised to 163 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: sell the vaccine globally on a not for profit basis 164 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: for just a couple of dollars of dose. UM Johnson 165 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: and Johnson has also UH promised to do that sell 166 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: it on a not for profit basis. And you know, 167 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: the way this really comes to the four is looking 168 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: at how all these drug manufacturers have interacted with Kovacs, 169 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization backed facility to distribute vaccines to 170 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: low income countries uh Visor. At the end of January, 171 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: UM did a deal with CoV X to sell forty 172 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,239 Speaker 1: million doses, which is about two percent of visors projected 173 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: output this year. And to put that into context, Astra 174 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: did a deal for a hundred and seventy million doses 175 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: and Johnson and Johnson has a preliminary co vacs deal 176 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: for five million doses um. And there's another deal that 177 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: Covex did with the Serum Institute of India that is 178 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: producing the Astrosonica vaccine again for just a few dollars 179 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: of dose. So that sort of puts Fiser into a 180 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: very different league in terms of COVID vaccines and how 181 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: much they're likely to make from them. And just to 182 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: add to that, the top line number here is that 183 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: Fiser has said they expect revenue of fifteen billion dollars 184 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: this year, and that doesn't that includes the contracts they've 185 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: already struck or bakes in the contracts they anticipate. So 186 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: there's an ability for them to now continue to make 187 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: deals around the world and make more than fifteen billion. 188 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: They're not going to take home fifteen billion. They have 189 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: a partnership with bion Tech. Just to be clear, fifteen 190 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: billion dollars makes it among one of the biggest selling 191 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: drugs in the world, and that never happens right out 192 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: of the gate. Drug companies never come out of the 193 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: gate with a huge selling product. They usually come out 194 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: and takes years to get to these levels. So first, viser, 195 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: it's extraordinary revenue and income boost. Returning to the question 196 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: of Viser CEO Borla, what are your reactions, let's say, 197 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: to to an accusation that that someone like Borla, a 198 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: CEO of a drugmaker, shouldn't be wielding this amount of 199 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: power in terms of you know, supply and cost of vaccines. 200 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's not a public or an 201 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: elected official, but you know he at the end of 202 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: the day is making some of the most important decisions 203 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: in a global health crisis. I think the real issue 204 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: is that most people and global public health don't think 205 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: that this is how we should be fighting the pandemic. 206 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: This is not the best way to end the pandemic 207 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: and to bring infection rates down around the world. But 208 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is that Fiser, together with 209 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: bion Tech and it's brilliant scientists, stepped up to the 210 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: plate and developed an incredibly effective vaccine. The question I 211 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: think is um whether or not it ought to have 212 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: been following a more uh not for profit approach like 213 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: some of the other vaccine developers during the pandemic. And 214 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: I think that is that would have made it easier 215 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: to get the vaccine out more widely, made it perhaps 216 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: easier for um the likes of covacs to buy more 217 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: doses or for other countries to do bilateral deals. But 218 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, when you think about how we might fight 219 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: the next pandemic um and when governments are putting up 220 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: money for research and development, whether or not there are 221 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: more strings attached so that governments have a bit more 222 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: control when some of these drugs get to the market. 223 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: I think too, this is sort of a fundamental question 224 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: about capitalism and healthcare, right, and it's come up in 225 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: every iteration of analyzing the U S health care system 226 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: when you overlay the need for a company to make 227 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: profits because it's answering to shareholders and the reality that 228 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: these drugs are vaccines, are life saving, and therefore should 229 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: there be you know, someone else in charge. And so 230 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: the Kovac's plan obviously didn't pan out. There have been 231 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: other examples of this. The w h I wanted a 232 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: patent pool that didn't exactly pan out, because pharma companies 233 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: need to own that i P in order to make 234 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: money off these products in future years. So I think 235 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: what this story highlights is something that's really chronic in nature, 236 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: in that we have this capitalist healthcare system and when 237 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: it comes to the vaccine in public health, it just 238 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: appears to be a mismatch. But how do we frain 239 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: that in how do we change that? And that's really 240 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: the question that was Stephanie Baker and Cynthia Coons. And 241 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: that's it for our show today. For coverage of the 242 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: outbreak from one bureaus around the world, visit Bloomberg dot 243 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: com slash coronavirus and if you like the show, please 244 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: leave us a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts 245 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: or Spotify. It's the best way to help more listeners 246 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: find our global reporting. The Prognosis Daily edition is produced 247 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: by to for Foreheads, Magnus Henrickson and me Laura Carlson. 248 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: Today's main story was reported by Stephanie Baker and Cynthia Coon's. 249 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: Original music by Leo Cedrin. Our editors are Rick Shine 250 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: and Francesca Levi. Francesco Levi is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. 251 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.