WEBVTT - Ep. 349: Trained by a Hound Dog - Ed Vance 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.680 Next thing I knew I was I was so so 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:09.720 dog going for I was hurting for money so bad 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.320 that i'd coast home. I'd find when I'd be driving home, 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.840 I turned the motor off so I didn't burn the 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.000 gas trop going down hill. That and next thing I 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.759 knew that I could leave the motor running used to 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:21.120 get home. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.040 And you were catching so many lines you could leave 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.320 the motor running when I was riding down the road 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:27.200 going down the hill. 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:28.320 YE made it. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.160 Yeah, Yeah, I was really getting riched. 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.640 This is the story of Houndsman Advance in his twenty 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:40.760 five years guiding and hunting lions and bears in California. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.840 He started as a suburban kid in the nineteen forties 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.320 with no connection to hounds or hunting, but would go on, 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.560 as he says, to be trained by a hound dog. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.480 Ed published a book by that title in twenty nineteen, 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.400 and some time ago I traveled out to California to 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.320 hear his story of struggle, per severance, and success firsthand. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:08.080 This story examines the drive of a young man to succeed. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:10.840 I really doubt that you're going to want to miss 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:22.880 this one. My name is Clay Knukem, and this is 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.880 the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.960 search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.760 the story of Americans who live their lives close to 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:42.039 the land. Presented by FHF Gear, American made purpose built 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.759 hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:57.640 as the place as we explore. I'm in Posey, California, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.720 two and a half hours from Los Angeles, in the 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.240 southern one third of the state, at the southern tip 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.440 of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It was a time when 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.320 California was the place to be if you wanted to 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.200 hunt big game with hounds. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.239 This place is gorgeous. This isn't what I expected. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:20.680 From this property. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.240 I caught lions and bears all over everything. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.160 All of the stuff that you can see. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.640 Advance points to a black hide draped over a couch. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.720 It's the only hide in this house. He's not going 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.400 to tell me a story. He's going to show it 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:38.720 to me. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.679 That was one of the toughest bears that I'd ever 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:44.720 got my dogs after. I mean, I'd had others that 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:49.119 were just as bad. But because there's the right here, 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.519 I'm going to explain to you, and I'm going to 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.600 show you where it started, where it went to, and 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.280 where it ended from. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:58.280 Right here at this house. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.960 Ed's home sits on top of a scrub oak covered 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.080 hill with a stunning three hundred and sixty degree view. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.639 I envisioned this is what the mountainous regions of Kenya 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:15.080 look like. There are yellow, parched grasslands on big rolling mountains, 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.800 Emerald green oaks with round canopies stand alone dotting the 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.960 landscape like the dark rosettes of a jaguar. 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.519 The hills flow with the smooth. 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.800 Lines like that of a cat's shoulders hips and the 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.680 swooping tail like the deep valleys. Fully wooded and steep 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.400 rimrock bluffs break up the terrain in places. It's the 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.280 kind of place you feel like you need a horse. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.480 This is some unusual and beautiful country. Ed points across 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.480 a deep valley, and to the east is a long 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.280 ridge that dominates the landscape. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.040 This particular bear that I got out after it was 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.520 in it started him in October and it was just 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.600 at the crack of dawn, and so we stopped and 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.280 I said, I'm going to walk up a canyon and 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.840 see if I can get a bear started up there, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.360 and I'm going to show you where this is at. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.760 You see this bridge right in front of him, So 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.280 you see a lone tree standing up there all by myself. Yeah, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.479 from that tree, if you went straight down into the canyon, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.479 straight down into the bottom, that's where they started this bear. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.719 By my best guess, they jumped the bear three miles 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.039 from Ed's back porch. This hunt took place in the 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.240 early nineteen seventies, but the landscape doesn't look much different 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.640 now than then there because that's been burned. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.960 They pulled him out of that cannon. He came out 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.240 of that canyon, crossed onto this side of that ridge, 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.400 and he skirted that ridge almost on the top all 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.720 the way around, and then where you can see that 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.240 one high point, he turned and he went to the 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.440 opposite side of it. Now there was no roads to 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.520 speak of, and so I was following him on foot. 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.839 By the time I got to there, I could hear 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:09.000 those dogs. It was placed called Portuguese Pass, and Portuguese 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.719 Pass is the furthest ridge that you can see. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.479 Yeah, I see over there as. 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.560 Far as you can see, and he's just about to 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:17.000 go over. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:18.400 And I thought, if he goes over. 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.919 That so there's a big valley in between that. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.080 It's called bull Run Basin. The other side is called 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:24.880 bull Run Basin. 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.240 Anyways, Portuguese Pass is seven thousand feet in elevation. It 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.120 looks to be six or seven miles from where we're standing. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.120 But the bear keeps running and Ed was following the 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.800 dogs by sound. This was thirty years before GPS, when 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.200 you turn dogs loose with just a leather collar on 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:45.880 their neck. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.359 And they were Then he was moving and and these 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.679 dogs were were hitting it as hard as they could, 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:58.440 and that is like extremely steep and rough. Yeah, and 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.760 then I lost hearing of them. Now we're gonna have 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.799 to walk to another spot over then I'm gonna shows 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.560 you where this thing ended up at. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.719 We walked forty yards to the north side of Ed's house, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.440 and the panoramic story continues so far. We can see 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.000 every rock step he and the dogs covered. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.400 So I came down through all of that, and it's 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.240 late in the afternoon. Now, I keep in mind this 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.719 started at about six in the morning, late in the afternoon, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.560 which would be about I'm gonna say about three o'clock. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.160 I crossed this road right here, the road that I'm 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:39.120 living on. But I was about four miles up and 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.120 I took my CBE radio and I to see if 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.880 anybody was there. And so this friend of mine, it 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:48.760 had been honey with me, he wasn't. I didn't even 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.159 know he was going to be up for this David. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.760 When I triggered my mic on my CV radio, Lewis 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.960 answered and he asked where I was at, and I 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.120 told him. By then, the dogs had traveled at least 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.160 ten twelve miles through this steep terrain that you're looking at. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.800 And I says, have you heard my dogs? And he says, yes, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.360 your dogs. The last I heard him, He says, your 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.160 dogs are down on White River by the campground. Now, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.080 I'm going to show you a White River campground. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:19.960 Is that We got a walk. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.800 Now we walk to the west side of the house, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.880 and far in the distance is a long ridge. It's 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.560 hard to imagine traveling this far on foot in a 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:31.960 single day. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.240 He wanted to come and pick me up, and I says, no, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.000 I want to just go across the country. I'm just 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.880 gonna keep it's all downhill, and I can travel pretty 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.240 fast going downhill, And as long as I know that 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.960 that's where they're at and I says, so I'm going 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.840 to go drop down to on what's called bear Trot Ridge. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.160 This is bear Trot Fridge right to our. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.880 Right from Lewis this time, you've already traveled twelve fourteen 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.640 miles close to that, through through air miles, and so 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.000 we're going down in these steep valleys and ravines and 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:07.800 up mountains. 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.160 Yes, because where the bear was started was at the 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.520 five thousand foot elevation and Portuguese passes seven thousand. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.120 Wow, So they almost got He almost had to. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:18.000 You had to go. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.800 You had to lose elevation and gain it. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.520 And many times yes, yes, back and forth, back and forth. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.280 This trek would have to push the limits of an 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.560 elite athlete for a day's travel. But there's an ancient 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:36.079 adrenaline download. When a man is following his hounds, emphasis 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.959 on his hounds, it can produce a superhuman drive. Ed 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.760 describes how he crossed a big valley heading towards the 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.920 White River and he could now hear the dogs barking 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:51.440 every breath, but this bear just won't tree. He knew 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.000 this bear, and he knew that it wouldn't trill. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.880 He was getting close to cross and over and I 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.000 got to where I could drop down, and I came 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:04.640 head on onto him and we walked right into each other. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.319 When he saw me, he spun and I had. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:09.760 This far with the dogs behind him. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.199 They weren't behind him, they were all right alongside of him. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.720 They were right on him. Yeah, they're just walking, yes, 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:18.240 but they knew. 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.080 You don't a dog didn't dare taking and put his 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:22.960 mouth on that bear. 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.480 They knew with his three or four dogs swarming, the 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.360 bear edge shoots as it spins, but misses the mark. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:32.320 And he took off. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.880 And if you'll see that farthest ridge that we can 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.120 see over there in the in the distance, I got 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.200 my next shot at him, and I was almost at 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.080 the bottom between those two ridges. In fact, there's some 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.840 ranchers said they was listening to the whole thing. Oh wow, 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:48.559 And I shot and killed him right there. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:49.120 Wow. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.200 So how many miles it is, I don't know, but 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.800 I do know this. I had twenty minutes to get 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.120 the height off of him, and there's going to be dark. 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.960 That's an incredible feed for the has been an incredible 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:01.760 feat for a man. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:02.760 Man. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:04.640 How far do you think you went? 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.360 I mean really in miles? 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.440 Actually, Yeah, there was a dirt trail and I was 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:15.400 walking it twenty five twenty five miles, I think. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:20.400 Gaining I've never heard while I saw such a panoramic 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.480 story where you could see such distance from the same hilltop, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.000 and I'd say, this is a good introduction to advance. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.400 I'd like to tell you how I met him. I'd 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.000 say it was quite unusual for me. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:36.400 Several months ago. 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:41.120 It was probably Lynnette that contacted me and said, I'd 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.880 like to send you a book that my husband wrote. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.120 And I said, well, sure, And I get a lot 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:45.920 of books. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.120 Ed, I really do a lot of people. A lot 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.320 of people write books, and I read a lot of books. 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:55.000 And when I read this book, I could tell that 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.280 the voice of this writer was someone special. I really did, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.440 and I as I read the book, I thought, man, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:05.319 I'd like to meet that guy. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.160 And so anyway, thank you for host you welcome. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:09.720 We're sure you're happy to have you here. 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.920 But it's an incredible and beautiful place. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.720 We're on the southern southern tip of the Sierra Nevadas 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.240 in a mountain range known as the Greenhorn Mountains, and 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:25.600 Sequoyan National Forest and Sequoi National Monument is right on 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.640 these Greenhorn Mountains. It's the place that a lot of 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:30.880 people really don't know about. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.679 Well, this morning we started often. I mean we were 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:38.640 in Los Angeles, Yes, Los Angeles, California. Seven lane going 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.720 one way, seven lane traffic going the other, and we 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.960 drove two and a half hours, and I mean we're 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.000 twenty miles from a gas station. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:48.480 I mean we're here more than that. 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.120 More than that, we're in your wilderness. 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.319 Really, you're forty miles away from the gas station. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.440 For all the negative press California he gets, this place 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.640 is a natural wonder with an order of geologic and 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.000 biologic diversity greater than any state. It's no wonder people 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.720 flocked here. I wanted to ask ed how he got 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:13.600 into hound hunting. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:16.920 You know, I always as a kid. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.199 I grew up in a suburb for the town by 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.280 the name of Glendale in California. And in those days, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.319 of course, the population wasn't what it was today, and 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.960 I kind of liked the act, like I was hunting 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.160 him because of it. Right from our house, you just 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.160 go off in the hills they're just covered with brush, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.600 just to kind of make believe, you know. But over 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.640 time I drifted away from that and then I found 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.280 myself working at an assembly plant for Chevrolet in Van Eys, California, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.680 and directly across the line from me was a guy 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.719 by the name Sherwood Barrett. He was from Georgia, and 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.040 in Sherwood he was a Mormon, and he told me, 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.880 he says that he left Georgia and he's on his 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.720 way to Salt Lake City, and uh, because he wanted 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.439 to live there, but he had to get go someplace 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.000 and earn some money in the process, and so he 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.839 was I was putting gas lines, gasoline lines on these 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.920 cars as they passed through fifty something an hour, so 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.240 we'd get a few moments every now and then to visit. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.280 And he started telling me about chasing these hound dogs 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:26.560 in the Oki Finok Swamp in Georgia, and uh, it 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.920 really caught my interests. I mean it really did. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.600 And the next were down there, they're hunting hunting coons, 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.280 hunting coons, yeah, yep. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.720 And uh so anyways, he tell me these stories about 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.600 this but what he was doing, and it just really 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.560 caught my interest, and so I asked him, I said, sure, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.480 where would you where do you go to buy these dogs? 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.480 And he told me says, go to like outdoor life. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.360 They had these guys advertising. I didn't know at the 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.600 time that most of those guys were selling dogs that 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.600 nobody wanted, you know, and people like myself would buy 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.520 them because I didn't know what I was buying in 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.480 the first place. So anyways, I started with that. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:06.480 And what was your intention? 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.679 Was your intention to run lion or bear? 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.840 I just wanted I like dogs, and I liked the 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.640 idea of hunting and a honeywood dogs sounding it could. 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.800 So you would have been in your early twenties probably 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:17.120 at this. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:18.760 Time I was. I was. 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.600 I just wanted some hunting dogs. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.640 I was like twenty years old, yeah, and nobody in 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.080 my family had ever even heard of it. And so 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.440 I wed Heed a dog from him, and I got 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.400 a red bone hound and his nice looking dog actually 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:34.680 called him Buck. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.840 Buck was shipped in a wooden crate by rail from 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.000 a kindle in Arkansas, and he paid thirty five dollars 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.800 for the dog and another thirty five for the shipping. 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.720 This first dog purchase coincided with a complete lifestyle change. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.680 Is Ed moved to the city of Ohigh in rural California, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.000 where he bought some horses and got a job working 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.840 at a self service gas station or sixty to seventy 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.520 hours a week to cover his expenses. But he was 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.400 about to meet somebody that would change his life. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.800 So I got this dog and didn't know where to 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.440 go hunting. So I took off and I went up 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.320 in the mountains up by Ventura, which is just covered 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.520 with brushia I actually have a terrible place to try 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.120 and hunt dogs, and I never caught anything with him. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.800 And then I started meeting different guys that had hound dogs, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.920 and they weren't doing any good either, and so I 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.840 fooled around with those, and eventually I learned that what 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.160 these dogs were chasing was not anything they could climb 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.920 a tree at all. That the guys I was hunting 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.520 with they were chasing deers. What they were chasing, you know. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.040 So the time went by, and next thing I knew, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.680 I was introduced to a guy out of Utah by 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.480 the name of Willis Butteov, which was a very well 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:59.320 known government hunter and had caught hundreds of lions, unbelievable 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.800 numbers of life. So I got with him and hunted 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.600 with him a few times and bought a few dogs 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.120 from him. From there I started learning about the difference 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.240 between hunting dogs and taking dogs hunting and catching stuff, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.160 and so then from there I ended up losing a 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.080 couple of these dogs to ten eighty poison, which was 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.720 terrible situation that was in Utah. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.920 Ed wanted a dog that would treat mountain lions, and 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.520 after a couple of years of messing around with dogs 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.880 running deer, in nineteen sixty two, he drove seven hundred 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.280 miles one way in his nineteen fifty one gmc three 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.880 quarter ton pickup to meet a man named Willis Butov 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.280 in Utah. Can you imagine driving a truck like that 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.800 that far? Ed was in his twenties and had never 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.320 treated a single animal with his hound. In the book, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:59.440 he describes arriving at Buttev's house visiting for several hours 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.840 before he he asked the man, when was the last 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.439 time you treat a lion? Ed wrote quote. He paused 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.840 for a minute and appeared as though he was trying 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:14.120 to remember back in time, and then he said today. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.880 Buttev had killed the lion that very day and couldn't 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.320 remember it, and he had the hide saltan on the 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.600 back porch. Turns out Buttov had over four hundred and 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.480 fifty documented lion kills in Utah as a government hunter 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.040 during the bounty years. He was the real deal and 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.200 Ed was finally in the right place. Their relationship would 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.160 last many years, and Ed bought several young dogs from 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.720 him that never really worked out. A couple of years 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.919 after their initial meeting, Ed made the trip again to 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.520 Utah to hunt with Buttov, and while in the mountains, 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.119 they got word that Buttev's father had passed away in 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.840 sun Danced, Wyoming, And to kind of show you what 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.280 kind of man Ed was, Ed volunteered to drive Buttov 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.880 seven hundred miles one way to the funeral in his 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.960 new four wheel drive International Scout in the dead of winter. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.120 Ed remembers they had to cover themselves with blankets while 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.080 they drove so they didn't freeze. The entire trip, they 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.119 talked about dogs. Ed was eating up every second he 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.120 had with Buttov, and what Buttov didn't know is that 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.520 Ed had taken out a thousand dollars loan with the 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.280 hopes to buy one of Buttov's lead dogs, not a 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.960 young one, but a fully trained lion hound, And on 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.280 the fourteen hundred mile trip, he agreed to sell Ed 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.360 one of his top hounds. Ed finally had a legit 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:52.680 lion hound. But listen to this, tragically and literally, the 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.680 first time that Ed turned the dog loose after paying 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.960 one thousand dollars for it, it was killed by TIS 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:05.359 eighty poison sodium flora acetate. This stuff was used to 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.439 kill ground squirrels and predators in California, and dogs that 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.680 would even find the dead carcass killed by the poison, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:14.959 they themselves would get poisoned. 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:17.000 And was devastated. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.000 So he again was back in the business of looking 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:25.960 for yet another dog. It was now nineteen sixty four. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.399 And then I ended up meeting a guy that he 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.959 worked for a big farm out of Wasco, California, and 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.000 he said that people told me that he had a 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.520 hound that he might sell because of his age. I 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.160 got in touch with him. Guy's names J. D. Reynolds, 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.280 and he had this red tick hound that he said 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.120 he would sell, and I bought him, and I couldn't 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:56.160 believe what I had bought. I went from this from 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.840 not catching anything to speak of. So every time I 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.200 put that dog's foot on the ground, he caught something 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.240 and he didn't run deer. He didn't run coyotes, and 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.119 he caught bobcats and raccoons and foxes every time he 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.040 hit the ground practically. And from there I started learning 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:20.399 the difference between good dogs, mediocre dogs, and dogs that 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.040 just aren't any good. So on the book that I 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.320 titled Trained by a Hound Dog, the title was really 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.680 thinking about this dog, this red takeown. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:29.720 Which we called Bo. 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.520 Like I say, he was six years old when I 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.240 got him. I was working as a carpenter framing houses 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.639 in Thousand Oaks, California, where framing houses there as a 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.520 carpenter was more like an athletic contest than it was 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.080 anything else, because it's all piece work and you didn't 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.320 get paid much. If you're going to have any money 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:51.240 at all, you're gonna work like you're fighting fire from 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.680 the moment she got there until there's time to go home, 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.440 which I did, and I take and load bow up 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.560 on Friday nights and I head off from the Ventura, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.760 California to the Greenhorn Mountains, which is where we're at 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.560 right now, and which is where Bo was. Ray who 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.600 actually trained. He came from Arkansas. He was a red 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.080 de count out of the Elbert Vaughan stock of English hounds, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.520 which eventually to be canting the Elber Blue tich. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.480 If you're into hounds, you probably recognize the name Elbert Vaughan, 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.159 who made quite the mark on the Bluetick breed. But 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.600 the most compelling part of this story is the examination 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.680 of a young man's drive to succeed, starting from absolute 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.840 zero in the suburbs. It took him four years, a 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.080 lifestyle change, thousands of miles of travel. He went through 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:48.000 about ten dogs, countless dead ends, some of them tragic 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:52.080 and out of his control. But finally he got started 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.919 with this hound named bow Whatever you do in life, 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.600 it's going to take some work and there will be pain. 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.400 He had any of excuses to quit. 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.680 I think that first year I'd get off work and 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.800 I'd drive all the way up here, which was three 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.439 and a half to four hours each way, after working 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.480 all all week. And I think that first year I 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.280 had Bowen and I bought a plot hound. I called 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:20.840 him Pat, and he was like two years old when 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.400