1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Next thing I knew I was I was so so 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: dog going for I was hurting for money so bad 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: that i'd coast home. I'd find when I'd be driving home, 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I turned the motor off so I didn't burn the 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: gas trop going down hill. That and next thing I 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: knew that I could leave the motor running used to 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: get home. 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: And you were catching so many lines you could leave 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: the motor running when I was riding down the road 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: going down the hill. 11 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 3: YE made it. 12 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, I was really getting riched. 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: This is the story of Houndsman Advance in his twenty 14 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: five years guiding and hunting lions and bears in California. 15 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 2: He started as a suburban kid in the nineteen forties 16 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: with no connection to hounds or hunting, but would go on, 17 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: as he says, to be trained by a hound dog. 18 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: Ed published a book by that title in twenty nineteen, 19 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: and some time ago I traveled out to California to 20 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: hear his story of struggle, per severance, and success firsthand. 21 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: This story examines the drive of a young man to succeed. 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: I really doubt that you're going to want to miss 23 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: this one. My name is Clay Knukem, and this is 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: the Bear Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: search for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: the story of Americans who live their lives close to 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: the land. Presented by FHF Gear, American made purpose built 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear as designed to be as rugged 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: as the place as we explore. I'm in Posey, California, 30 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: two and a half hours from Los Angeles, in the 31 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: southern one third of the state, at the southern tip 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It was a time when 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: California was the place to be if you wanted to 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: hunt big game with hounds. 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 3: This place is gorgeous. This isn't what I expected. 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 4: From this property. 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: I caught lions and bears all over everything. 38 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 4: All of the stuff that you can see. 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: Advance points to a black hide draped over a couch. 40 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: It's the only hide in this house. He's not going 41 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: to tell me a story. He's going to show it 42 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: to me. 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: That was one of the toughest bears that I'd ever 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: got my dogs after. I mean, I'd had others that 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: were just as bad. But because there's the right here, 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: I'm going to explain to you, and I'm going to 47 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: show you where it started, where it went to, and 48 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: where it ended from. 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: Right here at this house. 50 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: Ed's home sits on top of a scrub oak covered 51 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: hill with a stunning three hundred and sixty degree view. 52 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: I envisioned this is what the mountainous regions of Kenya 53 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: look like. There are yellow, parched grasslands on big rolling mountains, 54 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: Emerald green oaks with round canopies stand alone dotting the 55 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: landscape like the dark rosettes of a jaguar. 56 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 3: The hills flow with the smooth. 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: Lines like that of a cat's shoulders hips and the 58 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: swooping tail like the deep valleys. Fully wooded and steep 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: rimrock bluffs break up the terrain in places. It's the 60 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: kind of place you feel like you need a horse. 61 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: This is some unusual and beautiful country. Ed points across 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: a deep valley, and to the east is a long 63 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: ridge that dominates the landscape. 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: This particular bear that I got out after it was 65 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: in it started him in October and it was just 66 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: at the crack of dawn, and so we stopped and 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to walk up a canyon and 68 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: see if I can get a bear started up there, 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: and I'm going to show you where this is at. 70 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: You see this bridge right in front of him, So 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: you see a lone tree standing up there all by myself. Yeah, 72 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: from that tree, if you went straight down into the canyon, 73 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: straight down into the bottom, that's where they started this bear. 74 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: By my best guess, they jumped the bear three miles 75 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: from Ed's back porch. This hunt took place in the 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: early nineteen seventies, but the landscape doesn't look much different 77 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: now than then there because that's been burned. 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: They pulled him out of that cannon. He came out 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: of that canyon, crossed onto this side of that ridge, 80 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: and he skirted that ridge almost on the top all 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: the way around, and then where you can see that 82 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: one high point, he turned and he went to the 83 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: opposite side of it. Now there was no roads to 84 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: speak of, and so I was following him on foot. 85 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: By the time I got to there, I could hear 86 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: those dogs. It was placed called Portuguese Pass, and Portuguese 87 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: Pass is the furthest ridge that you can see. 88 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, I see over there as. 89 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: Far as you can see, and he's just about to 90 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: go over. 91 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 4: And I thought, if he goes over. 92 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: That so there's a big valley in between that. 93 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: It's called bull Run Basin. The other side is called 94 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: bull Run Basin. 95 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: Anyways, Portuguese Pass is seven thousand feet in elevation. It 96 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: looks to be six or seven miles from where we're standing. 97 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: But the bear keeps running and Ed was following the 98 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: dogs by sound. This was thirty years before GPS, when 99 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: you turn dogs loose with just a leather collar on 100 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: their neck. 101 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: And they were Then he was moving and and these 102 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: dogs were were hitting it as hard as they could, 103 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: and that is like extremely steep and rough. Yeah, and 104 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: then I lost hearing of them. Now we're gonna have 105 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: to walk to another spot over then I'm gonna shows 106 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: you where this thing ended up at. 107 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: We walked forty yards to the north side of Ed's house, 108 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: and the panoramic story continues so far. We can see 109 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: every rock step he and the dogs covered. 110 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: So I came down through all of that, and it's 111 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: late in the afternoon. Now, I keep in mind this 112 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: started at about six in the morning, late in the afternoon, 113 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: which would be about I'm gonna say about three o'clock. 114 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: I crossed this road right here, the road that I'm 115 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: living on. But I was about four miles up and 116 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: I took my CBE radio and I to see if 117 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: anybody was there. And so this friend of mine, it 118 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: had been honey with me, he wasn't. I didn't even 119 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: know he was going to be up for this David. 120 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: When I triggered my mic on my CV radio, Lewis 121 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: answered and he asked where I was at, and I 122 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: told him. By then, the dogs had traveled at least 123 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: ten twelve miles through this steep terrain that you're looking at. 124 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: And I says, have you heard my dogs? And he says, yes, 125 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: your dogs. The last I heard him, He says, your 126 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: dogs are down on White River by the campground. Now, 127 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a White River campground. 128 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 4: Is that We got a walk. 129 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: Now we walk to the west side of the house, 130 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: and far in the distance is a long ridge. It's 131 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: hard to imagine traveling this far on foot in a 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: single day. 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: He wanted to come and pick me up, and I says, no, 134 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: I want to just go across the country. I'm just 135 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: gonna keep it's all downhill, and I can travel pretty 136 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: fast going downhill, And as long as I know that 137 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: that's where they're at and I says, so I'm going 138 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: to go drop down to on what's called bear Trot Ridge. 139 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 4: This is bear Trot Fridge right to our. 140 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: Right from Lewis this time, you've already traveled twelve fourteen 141 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: miles close to that, through through air miles, and so 142 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: we're going down in these steep valleys and ravines and 143 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: up mountains. 144 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: Yes, because where the bear was started was at the 145 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: five thousand foot elevation and Portuguese passes seven thousand. 146 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 4: Wow, So they almost got He almost had to. 147 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: You had to go. 148 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: You had to lose elevation and gain it. 149 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: And many times yes, yes, back and forth, back and forth. 150 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: This trek would have to push the limits of an 151 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: elite athlete for a day's travel. But there's an ancient 152 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: adrenaline download. When a man is following his hounds, emphasis 153 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: on his hounds, it can produce a superhuman drive. Ed 154 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: describes how he crossed a big valley heading towards the 155 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: White River and he could now hear the dogs barking 156 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: every breath, but this bear just won't tree. He knew 157 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: this bear, and he knew that it wouldn't trill. 158 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: He was getting close to cross and over and I 159 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: got to where I could drop down, and I came 160 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: head on onto him and we walked right into each other. 161 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: When he saw me, he spun and I had. 162 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: This far with the dogs behind him. 163 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 4: They weren't behind him, they were all right alongside of him. 164 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 4: They were right on him. Yeah, they're just walking, yes, 165 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 4: but they knew. 166 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: You don't a dog didn't dare taking and put his 167 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: mouth on that bear. 168 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 2: They knew with his three or four dogs swarming, the 169 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: bear edge shoots as it spins, but misses the mark. 170 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 4: And he took off. 171 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: And if you'll see that farthest ridge that we can 172 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: see over there in the in the distance, I got 173 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: my next shot at him, and I was almost at 174 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: the bottom between those two ridges. In fact, there's some 175 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: ranchers said they was listening to the whole thing. Oh wow, 176 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: And I shot and killed him right there. 177 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 4: Wow. 178 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: So how many miles it is, I don't know, but 179 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: I do know this. I had twenty minutes to get 180 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: the height off of him, and there's going to be dark. 181 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: That's an incredible feed for the has been an incredible 182 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: feat for a man. 183 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 4: Man. 184 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: How far do you think you went? 185 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: I mean really in miles? 186 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, there was a dirt trail and I was 187 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: walking it twenty five twenty five miles, I think. 188 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: Gaining I've never heard while I saw such a panoramic 189 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: story where you could see such distance from the same hilltop, 190 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 2: and I'd say, this is a good introduction to advance. 191 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: I'd like to tell you how I met him. I'd 192 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: say it was quite unusual for me. 193 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: Several months ago. 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: It was probably Lynnette that contacted me and said, I'd 195 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: like to send you a book that my husband wrote. 196 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: And I said, well, sure, And I get a lot 197 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: of books. 198 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 3: Ed, I really do a lot of people. A lot 199 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 3: of people write books, and I read a lot of books. 200 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: And when I read this book, I could tell that 201 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: the voice of this writer was someone special. I really did, 202 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: and I as I read the book, I thought, man, 203 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 2: I'd like to meet that guy. 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: And so anyway, thank you for host you welcome. 205 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 4: We're sure you're happy to have you here. 206 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: But it's an incredible and beautiful place. 207 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: We're on the southern southern tip of the Sierra Nevadas 208 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: in a mountain range known as the Greenhorn Mountains, and 209 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: Sequoyan National Forest and Sequoi National Monument is right on 210 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: these Greenhorn Mountains. It's the place that a lot of 211 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: people really don't know about. 212 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: Well, this morning we started often. I mean we were 213 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, Yes, Los Angeles, California. Seven lane going 214 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: one way, seven lane traffic going the other, and we 215 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: drove two and a half hours, and I mean we're 216 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: twenty miles from a gas station. 217 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 4: I mean we're here more than that. 218 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: More than that, we're in your wilderness. 219 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 4: Really, you're forty miles away from the gas station. 220 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: For all the negative press California he gets, this place 221 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: is a natural wonder with an order of geologic and 222 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: biologic diversity greater than any state. It's no wonder people 223 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: flocked here. I wanted to ask ed how he got 224 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: into hound hunting. 225 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: You know, I always as a kid. 226 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: I grew up in a suburb for the town by 227 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: the name of Glendale in California. And in those days, 228 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: of course, the population wasn't what it was today, and 229 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: I kind of liked the act, like I was hunting 230 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: him because of it. Right from our house, you just 231 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: go off in the hills they're just covered with brush, 232 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: just to kind of make believe, you know. But over 233 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: time I drifted away from that and then I found 234 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: myself working at an assembly plant for Chevrolet in Van Eys, California, 235 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: and directly across the line from me was a guy 236 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: by the name Sherwood Barrett. He was from Georgia, and 237 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: in Sherwood he was a Mormon, and he told me, 238 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: he says that he left Georgia and he's on his 239 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: way to Salt Lake City, and uh, because he wanted 240 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: to live there, but he had to get go someplace 241 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: and earn some money in the process, and so he 242 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: was I was putting gas lines, gasoline lines on these 243 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: cars as they passed through fifty something an hour, so 244 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: we'd get a few moments every now and then to visit. 245 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: And he started telling me about chasing these hound dogs 246 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: in the Oki Finok Swamp in Georgia, and uh, it 247 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: really caught my interests. I mean it really did. 248 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: And the next were down there, they're hunting hunting coons, 249 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: hunting coons, yeah, yep. 250 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: And uh so anyways, he tell me these stories about 251 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: this but what he was doing, and it just really 252 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: caught my interest, and so I asked him, I said, sure, 253 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: where would you where do you go to buy these dogs? 254 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: And he told me says, go to like outdoor life. 255 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: They had these guys advertising. I didn't know at the 256 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: time that most of those guys were selling dogs that 257 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: nobody wanted, you know, and people like myself would buy 258 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: them because I didn't know what I was buying in 259 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: the first place. So anyways, I started with that. 260 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 4: And what was your intention? 261 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: Was your intention to run lion or bear? 262 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: I just wanted I like dogs, and I liked the 263 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: idea of hunting and a honeywood dogs sounding it could. 264 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: So you would have been in your early twenties probably 265 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: at this. 266 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 4: Time I was. I was. 267 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: I just wanted some hunting dogs. 268 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: I was like twenty years old, yeah, and nobody in 269 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: my family had ever even heard of it. And so 270 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: I wed Heed a dog from him, and I got 271 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: a red bone hound and his nice looking dog actually 272 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: called him Buck. 273 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: Buck was shipped in a wooden crate by rail from 274 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: a kindle in Arkansas, and he paid thirty five dollars 275 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: for the dog and another thirty five for the shipping. 276 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: This first dog purchase coincided with a complete lifestyle change. 277 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: Is Ed moved to the city of Ohigh in rural California, 278 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: where he bought some horses and got a job working 279 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: at a self service gas station or sixty to seventy 280 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: hours a week to cover his expenses. But he was 281 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: about to meet somebody that would change his life. 282 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: So I got this dog and didn't know where to 283 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: go hunting. So I took off and I went up 284 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: in the mountains up by Ventura, which is just covered 285 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: with brushia I actually have a terrible place to try 286 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: and hunt dogs, and I never caught anything with him. 287 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: And then I started meeting different guys that had hound dogs, 288 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: and they weren't doing any good either, and so I 289 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: fooled around with those, and eventually I learned that what 290 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: these dogs were chasing was not anything they could climb 291 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: a tree at all. That the guys I was hunting 292 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: with they were chasing deers. What they were chasing, you know. 293 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: So the time went by, and next thing I knew, 294 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: I was introduced to a guy out of Utah by 295 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: the name of Willis Butteov, which was a very well 296 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: known government hunter and had caught hundreds of lions, unbelievable 297 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: numbers of life. So I got with him and hunted 298 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: with him a few times and bought a few dogs 299 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: from him. From there I started learning about the difference 300 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: between hunting dogs and taking dogs hunting and catching stuff, 301 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: and so then from there I ended up losing a 302 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: couple of these dogs to ten eighty poison, which was 303 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: terrible situation that was in Utah. 304 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: Ed wanted a dog that would treat mountain lions, and 305 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: after a couple of years of messing around with dogs 306 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: running deer, in nineteen sixty two, he drove seven hundred 307 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: miles one way in his nineteen fifty one gmc three 308 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: quarter ton pickup to meet a man named Willis Butov 309 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: in Utah. Can you imagine driving a truck like that 310 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: that far? Ed was in his twenties and had never 311 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: treated a single animal with his hound. In the book, 312 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: he describes arriving at Buttev's house visiting for several hours 313 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: before he he asked the man, when was the last 314 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 2: time you treat a lion? Ed wrote quote. He paused 315 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: for a minute and appeared as though he was trying 316 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 2: to remember back in time, and then he said today. 317 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 2: Buttev had killed the lion that very day and couldn't 318 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: remember it, and he had the hide saltan on the 319 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: back porch. Turns out Buttov had over four hundred and 320 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: fifty documented lion kills in Utah as a government hunter 321 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: during the bounty years. He was the real deal and 322 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: Ed was finally in the right place. Their relationship would 323 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: last many years, and Ed bought several young dogs from 324 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 2: him that never really worked out. A couple of years 325 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 2: after their initial meeting, Ed made the trip again to 326 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: Utah to hunt with Buttov, and while in the mountains, 327 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 2: they got word that Buttev's father had passed away in 328 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: sun Danced, Wyoming, And to kind of show you what 329 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: kind of man Ed was, Ed volunteered to drive Buttov 330 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: seven hundred miles one way to the funeral in his 331 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: new four wheel drive International Scout in the dead of winter. 332 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 2: Ed remembers they had to cover themselves with blankets while 333 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: they drove so they didn't freeze. The entire trip, they 334 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: talked about dogs. Ed was eating up every second he 335 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 2: had with Buttov, and what Buttov didn't know is that 336 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: Ed had taken out a thousand dollars loan with the 337 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: hopes to buy one of Buttov's lead dogs, not a 338 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: young one, but a fully trained lion hound, And on 339 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: the fourteen hundred mile trip, he agreed to sell Ed 340 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 2: one of his top hounds. Ed finally had a legit 341 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 2: lion hound. But listen to this, tragically and literally, the 342 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: first time that Ed turned the dog loose after paying 343 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: one thousand dollars for it, it was killed by TIS 344 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: eighty poison sodium flora acetate. This stuff was used to 345 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: kill ground squirrels and predators in California, and dogs that 346 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 2: would even find the dead carcass killed by the poison, 347 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 2: they themselves would get poisoned. 348 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 3: And was devastated. 349 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: So he again was back in the business of looking 350 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 2: for yet another dog. It was now nineteen sixty four. 351 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: And then I ended up meeting a guy that he 352 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: worked for a big farm out of Wasco, California, and 353 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: he said that people told me that he had a 354 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: hound that he might sell because of his age. I 355 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: got in touch with him. Guy's names J. D. Reynolds, 356 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: and he had this red tick hound that he said 357 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: he would sell, and I bought him, and I couldn't 358 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: believe what I had bought. I went from this from 359 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: not catching anything to speak of. So every time I 360 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: put that dog's foot on the ground, he caught something 361 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: and he didn't run deer. He didn't run coyotes, and 362 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: he caught bobcats and raccoons and foxes every time he 363 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: hit the ground practically. And from there I started learning 364 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: the difference between good dogs, mediocre dogs, and dogs that 365 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: just aren't any good. So on the book that I 366 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: titled Trained by a Hound Dog, the title was really 367 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: thinking about this dog, this red takeown. 368 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 4: Which we called Bo. 369 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: Like I say, he was six years old when I 370 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: got him. I was working as a carpenter framing houses 371 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: in Thousand Oaks, California, where framing houses there as a 372 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: carpenter was more like an athletic contest than it was 373 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: anything else, because it's all piece work and you didn't 374 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: get paid much. If you're going to have any money 375 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: at all, you're gonna work like you're fighting fire from 376 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: the moment she got there until there's time to go home, 377 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: which I did, and I take and load bow up 378 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: on Friday nights and I head off from the Ventura, 379 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: California to the Greenhorn Mountains, which is where we're at 380 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: right now, and which is where Bo was. Ray who 381 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: actually trained. He came from Arkansas. He was a red 382 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: de count out of the Elbert Vaughan stock of English hounds, 383 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: which eventually to be canting the Elber Blue tich. 384 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: If you're into hounds, you probably recognize the name Elbert Vaughan, 385 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 2: who made quite the mark on the Bluetick breed. But 386 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: the most compelling part of this story is the examination 387 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: of a young man's drive to succeed, starting from absolute 388 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: zero in the suburbs. It took him four years, a 389 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 2: lifestyle change, thousands of miles of travel. He went through 390 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: about ten dogs, countless dead ends, some of them tragic 391 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: and out of his control. But finally he got started 392 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 2: with this hound named bow Whatever you do in life, 393 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: it's going to take some work and there will be pain. 394 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 2: He had any of excuses to quit. 395 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: I think that first year I'd get off work and 396 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: I'd drive all the way up here, which was three 397 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: and a half to four hours each way, after working 398 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: all all week. And I think that first year I 399 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: had Bowen and I bought a plot hound. I called 400 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: him Pat, and he was like two years old when 401 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: I got him. Bo wouldn't run a line at all. 402 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: He wouldn't I'd find a line track is fresh, and 403 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: he wouldn't pay any attention. But Pat had been on 404 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: some lions. I got Pat from Willis Putev in Utah, 405 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: and he'd been on these lions, so he he was 406 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: eager more eager to try and trail. And then Boa 407 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: was Bo didn't care. I think I caught on Friday 408 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: night hunting Friday nights and Saturday right out one hundred 409 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: animals that first year. And that was driving four hours 410 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: each way to go after putting in five days of 411 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: slave labor type work. You know, which of is basically 412 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: bobcats and foxes with So. 413 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 3: They'd treat these foxes and these little oak trees. 414 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 4: They do tree here there. 415 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: It's called a grave cross fox. They're a lot harder 416 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: to tree than the bobcats are. 417 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: Starting from zero, Ed was now on his way, and 418 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: what would happen with Bo is that after Pat the 419 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: plot started trailing lions, Bo joined him and the pair 420 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: became an extraordinary team catching lions. But when you get 421 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: into hounds, it starts a never ending cycle of always 422 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 2: needing more dogs. So he hit the road again, driving 423 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: to Arkansas to meet with the blue tick breeder Albert Vaughan, 424 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: where he picked up some hounds that would become instrumental 425 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: in his pack for years to come. Ed and his 426 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: pack started treating lions and bears consistently, which led Ed 427 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: to want to change professions and become a full time 428 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: lion and bear outfitter. 429 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: I started advertising. I'd hurt my back really bad in 430 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: framing houses, and I I just couldn't. I couldn't and 431 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: keep doing it. So I left Ventura and I moved 432 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: to this area where we're out here. That was in 433 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six. When I moved here, I've been keeping mind, 434 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: had been hunting it for about three or four. 435 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: Years, been. 436 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: Traveling back and forth. But I moved here full time. 437 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: Started running some ads in the magazine, like Outdoor Life magazine, 438 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: fifty dollars a month for a one tolam inch ad. 439 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: And it was it was just about broke me to 440 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: have to pay that advertisement, you know, And I was 441 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: I was so poor. I was poor as a church mouse, 442 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: as a sands go you know, living in the back 443 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: of my truck at the same time. But anyways, I 444 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: rented an old shack, moved into that, started advertising and 445 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: I started getting some customers. 446 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: Ed bought a typewriter at a pawn shop and started 447 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: printing out brochures for his lion hunts that he hung 448 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: all across town. For a successful lion hunt, he charged 449 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: five hundred dollars, and if they treat a bobcat, it 450 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: was an extra fifty. It was now in nineteen sixty six, 451 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: and only three years prior, the bounty on Mountain lions 452 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: was stopped and lions were being managed as game animals. 453 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: Ed got his California guide license, which was nothing more 454 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: than a formality, and he was on his way. But 455 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: in the late fall of nineteen sixty seven, something beyond 456 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 2: his control happened. 457 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: And it started to grow from there, you know, and 458 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: then I ended up having a I guess people started 459 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: knowing a little bit about me being there. And I 460 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: knew this guy lived up at Sugarloa Village, and he 461 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: said that he knew a guy that worked for the 462 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: La Times, and he talked to him about what I 463 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: was doing, and they wanted to know if they could 464 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: come up here and I'd take him lying under they'd 465 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: run an article in the Los Angeles Times, so you know, 466 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: I said, well, yeah, okay, let's do it. 467 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: And this was obviously a time when was a little 468 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: more favorable to hunt lions California. 469 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 4: Yes, it was so. 470 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: Anyways, these guys came up, the guy named Dewey Lindsay, 471 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: and with him was this photographer that worked for the 472 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: He's a freelance photographer basically worked for a national geographic 473 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: And here I am twenty five years old with about 474 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: three hound dogs, and I got these high powered professionals 475 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: from Los Amps that come up here and want me 476 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: to catch a lion. They said, I only got three 477 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: days to do it. In the pressure was really on 478 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: because trying to you know, there's one thing to catch 479 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: a lion. Well, you're just out there hunting and you 480 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: run into them and you catch him as a as 481 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: they become available. But if you're going to do this 482 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: as a profession and you got people coming in and 483 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: you're on a no catch, no pay. 484 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: Which I was at those days, no catch, no pay, 485 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 4: no catch, no pay. If you didn't catch it, you 486 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 4: didn't get paid anything. 487 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: Was that common back then or is that just something 488 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 2: that you wanted to. 489 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: No, No, that was common. That was the way it 490 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: was everywhere, all of them through the mount in states. 491 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: Everybody no catch, no pay. You had to show for 492 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: these people around and pay for their food and sometimes 493 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: drive a couple hundred miles each way to an airport 494 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: to pick them up and take them back. And if 495 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: you didn't catch them a lion, you didn't get paid anything. 496 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 3: So that's business. 497 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 4: The pressure was on, you know. 498 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 3: Made for some good outfitters, didn't it. 499 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: It separated them, It truly did. Yeah, I caught them 500 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: a lion on the on the third day. 501 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: Third day, and you're just dry ground line hunting, so 502 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 2: you're just roaming around free casting the dogs. No, were 503 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 2: you on your horse at that. 504 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: No, I didn't know. I wasn't using horse. What what 505 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: I'd have to do is I just had to go 506 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: places where I knew that lions would frequent and and 507 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're kind of a strange animal in 508 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: that you find lions that would use certain areas and 509 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: airs are close by. They wouldn't even go and bother 510 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: over there. So I would go to these places where 511 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: I knew that it either caught lions already or I'd 512 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: seen lions. I was really looking for someplace where I 513 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: could find a lion track, knowing that I hadn't already 514 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: caught the thing. 515 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 4: So anyways, we ended. 516 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: Up catching the lion and they they ran this story 517 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: in the What's we call West magazine to the Los 518 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: Angeles Time. It's a weekend color magazine, and through that ad, 519 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: it generated quite a bit of a business for me. 520 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: Next thing I knew I was I was so so 521 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: dog gone for I was hurting for money so bad 522 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: that i'd coast home. I'd find when I'd be driving home, 523 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: I turned the motor off so I didn't burn the 524 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: gas for it going downhill. But and next thing I 525 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: knew that I could leave the motor running needs to 526 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: get home. 527 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: And you were catching some eighty lines. You could leave 528 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: the motors running when I start riding down the road. 529 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: That's right going down the hill. 530 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: Ye made it? 531 00:28:53,120 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I was really getting rich during the years 532 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: that I did all this. I wouldn't trade the memories 533 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: of that for anything at all. I mean, it was 534 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: just something that was just really important to me, and 535 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: I cherished those memories a dozen years there. I made 536 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: my living from that. If I had two nickels to 537 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: rub together, it was because somebody gave me that for 538 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: taking a hunting, And if they gave it to me 539 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: for taking a hunting, it's because they got the animal 540 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: that they were hunting for. Or they didn't give me 541 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: the two nickels, you know. But I'll tell you what. 542 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 4: I was so poor. It took every penny. 543 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: That I made to feed those dogs, buy new ones 544 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: if I needed to buy a dog, pay for gas. 545 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: Trucks didn't last very long in those days. Seventy thousand 546 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: miles on a truck that I was driving new, buy 547 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: one brand new, and then seventy thousand. 548 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 4: Miles later it was pretty rough shape. 549 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: So anyways, from there, I stayed in California, Yah, doing 550 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: the line of the bear, and I took the I 551 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: started hunting bears in northern California. I'd run into a 552 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: guy and his two boys, and it was nineteen sixty six, 553 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: it was December twenty seventh, I think, and we caught 554 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: this lion, but we got a flat tire and we 555 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: were just about ready to leave, and we're right at 556 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: the end of the dead end road. Anyways, at the 557 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: end of the road, couldn't be five hundred feet away 558 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: from us. I look down the road and there's these 559 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: two boys standing there with four hound dogs and asked 560 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: Roy Stevenson. I said, do you know those kids? He says, 561 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: I've never seen him in my life. And there was 562 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: a friendship that is still going on today. The two 563 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: boys was Bobby Bridges and Gary Bridges and their father, 564 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: Jim Bridges, who's now passed on, and we hit it 565 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: off really well. So next thing I knew, I was 566 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: up there taking bear hunts and Shatta County and Jim 567 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: Bridges was giving me a hand at it, and I 568 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: ended up buying three of those dogs that were standing 569 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: at the end of the road that day. Jim was 570 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: one of the actually one of the finest men that 571 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: I think I've ever known in my life. You could 572 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: believe anything he said, and you can't find any of 573 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: them that you can do that with. 574 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: You never know when you're going to meet a friend 575 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 2: that will stay with you for the rest of your life. 576 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: Ed met the Bridges at the end of a dead 577 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: end road. I really like Ed's qualification of a good man. 578 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: He said you could believe anything he said, which puzzled 579 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 2: me for a minute at how rare Ed implied this 580 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 2: trait to be. But I think a lot of people 581 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: just tell you what you want to hear. They may 582 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: not lie to you, but they don't tell you the 583 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: whole truth. And some people just aren't competent, and what 584 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: they say is often flawed, not reflecting reality. It's not 585 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: that they blatantly lie, it's just you can't really trust 586 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: their judgment. It made me stop and ask what integrity 587 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: really is. It's a powerful exercise to do a deep 588 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,479 Speaker 2: analysis of your personal integrity, and only you, with the 589 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: help of God, can do that. 590 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 3: I wanted to ask ed about horses. 591 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 2: I know in your book you talk about and this 592 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: is one thing that intrigued me. Was you hunted on 593 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 2: horseback a lot? Was that one of your favorite ways 594 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: to hunt ed was hunting on horseback with the dog's 595 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: free ranging out. 596 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 4: I did enjoy that. 597 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: It was you know, the easiest way to hunt dogs 598 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: is to turn the dogs loose and let him run 599 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: down the road in front of a pick out and 600 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: follo him in a truck. But in lion hunting, sometimes 601 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: with what I was doing, see, I couldn't catch lines 602 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: at just my leisure. It didn't make any difference. If 603 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I was out there and caught a line, I didn't 604 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: have anyone with me. I didn't do any good. I 605 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: didn't get paid anything, and I was full time doing this, 606 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: so I needed a paying customer to be with me 607 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: and a paying customer had to be there. 608 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 4: When I caught it. Yeah, I mean I could catch it. 609 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: I could catch the line the day after the guy left, 610 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: and it didn't do me any good because he left 611 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: and he took his money with him when he was 612 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: when he left. You know, So during those years I 613 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: had to go wherever the lions were at. It's like 614 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: most of the hunts were like one week hunts, and 615 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: during that week period of time, I had to come 616 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: up with the lion. And if I didn't come up 617 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: with the lion, I just got to I just got 618 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: to pay the bill all by myself. 619 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 3: You know, did that happen very often? Or did you 620 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 3: catch most most people lines? 621 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: You know, I was running of both the line, the 622 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: both line and barns. I was hitting pretty close to 623 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: ninety percent, which meant you if you had if you 624 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: had a guy on a lion hunt, you didn't get 625 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: much time to do that. So you better know where 626 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: there's one at. And so to do that, I had 627 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: to stay active, actively looking, even if I had nobody 628 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: with me. Well here comes the horse now, Okay. I 629 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: drive roads. I look for tracks alongside the roads, walks 630 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: and trails. But you can only walk so far. Then 631 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: there's other areas that you know that are pretty decent 632 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: for having lions in them. But it didn't do you 633 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: any good to go way back in the back country. 634 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: If you're going to take what we used to call 635 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: them dudes, take them in there to go catch a line, 636 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: because you had to get them in there too, you know. 637 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: So I would take and I'd use the horse to 638 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: scout to constantly look see if I could find a line. 639 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: If I caught them, i'd make sure i'd let them go, 640 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: but try and keep tract of it so that you 641 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: could hopefully find it again, which wasn't all that often. 642 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: I seemed like I'd guess lines, let them go, and 643 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: I never seem to see their tracks again. But anyways, 644 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: how many did I catch as compared to driving roads? 645 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: I caught more driving roads just because you can travel. 646 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 2: Fast, just it's an efficient way to hunt. 647 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 4: It is you can travel much faster. 648 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 3: You're looking for an actual track, yes, dirt track in 649 00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 3: the road. 650 00:34:59,239 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 4: That's right. 651 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: Lions, At least where I was hunting them, they seemed 652 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 1: to use trails. They were obvious to you. You get 653 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: to the point to where you could you could you 654 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: find a lion track. You're walking up a canyon, you 655 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: find a lion track, and just going a certain direction, 656 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: you look off in the distance. 657 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 4: You could just about say, if this lion. 658 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: Has gone that far whatever that is, a mile or 659 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: whatever it is, the chances are he went right through there, and. 660 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 4: You almost look, yes, you almost always right. 661 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: And the and the bears at that time in these 662 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: Greenhorn Mountains, which is where we're at, the bear pop 663 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: place was very poor. They'd had had a drought, a 664 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: severe drought in the late nineteen fifties. They said that 665 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: the bears went clear to the San Joaquin Valley in 666 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: those years. And in those years they were using the 667 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: poison called ten eighty to kill ground squirrels and everything else. 668 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: And ten eighty is a kind of a poison that 669 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: if a ground squirrel eat and something comes along and 670 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: eats the ground squirrel, it's going to kill that thing too. 671 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: And I kind of think that between the drought and 672 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: the widespread poisoning ground squirrels in these mountains, that had 673 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: just about wiped the bear population now for a long, 674 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: long waist away, And it wasn't until about nineteen sixty eight, 675 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: which would be about ten years after that drought that 676 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: we started spinning bears showing up. Yeah, and the bears 677 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: that we've would show up, they were adults, they were 678 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: all and most of our big, big bears to boots. 679 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 4: You know. 680 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: It weren't finding anything of females with cubs. They're just 681 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,959 Speaker 1: pretty good sized bears, and I think they just moved 682 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: into here. But up until then, up until about nineteen seventy, 683 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: I was spending all my time for the bear on 684 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: south in northern California. 685 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: What Ed is saying checks out, because males will be 686 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 2: the first ones to repopulate new territory. And interestingly, as 687 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 2: many know today, California has the most bears of any 688 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 2: state in the lower forty eight. The last half century 689 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: for black bears has surprised biologists by how quickly they 690 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: can come back. 691 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: That's a good thing. And back to horse hunting. 692 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: Ed had a really cool truck with a stock crack 693 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: and the bed built in dog boxes that he hauled 694 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: his horses and dogs without a trailer. 695 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 3: I've been watting one of those ever since I saw 696 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 3: his What was your favorite to chase with your hounds? 697 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,240 Speaker 4: I love chasing bears. 698 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 3: Did you more than lions? 699 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: Oh, that's hard to say. I'll tell you what I 700 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: liked about about the lion hunt. I really did enjoy 701 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: catching a lion where the dogs would start with a track. 702 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: There was almost nothing were they'd out there, and you 703 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: had to have dogs had good cold noses to where 704 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: they'd done. You find a lion track in the dirt 705 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: and you point out it, and they stick their nose 706 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: down there. They couldn't smell it, but they knew you 707 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: were pointing something out. They started looking. They'd find a 708 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: twig that had touched that animal side and they could 709 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: smell it on that twig, and they'd bark. And you 710 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: look at the ground where they're at, and there's that 711 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: lion's track, and you start from that, and maybe ten 712 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: miles later you're looking at the lion. That to me 713 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: made it all worthwhile. That was that was hunting dogs. 714 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: That wasn't hunting lions. That was taking dogs and seeing 715 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: them at their very finest, and I just loved that. 716 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: I know, there's lots of lines that I'd caught people 717 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: that I'd taken in the past. After writing this book, 718 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: they'd asked me about it, and I forgot all about 719 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: it because they were what we call a pop ups. 720 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: You know, you cut the track and it was fresh. Yeah, 721 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: a lie wasn't very far away from. 722 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 3: You, So that was the easy one. 723 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 4: Those Areasi's pop ups. 724 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: You don't even forget about them, but those ones that 725 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: where you get out out to those things. Then you 726 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: go all day long just working, sometimes in the summertime 727 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: where the dog just just taking both of you. You 728 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: got to find the track to help the dog, and 729 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: the dog take the track a little ways where you 730 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,919 Speaker 1: couldn't find it, and next thing you know, they turned 731 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: that thing into a movable track and like, say, miles later, 732 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: you're looking at it, there is a tree. 733 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 2: One thing that you did, and this I noticed inside 734 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: the book was you did some incredible athletic feats. In 735 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 2: my mind following these dogs. Were you a really great athlete? 736 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 4: Ed No. 737 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, as an infant, I had 738 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: to berkulosis, and they figured that I would never be 739 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: able to do anything athleticalized. But then i'd also had 740 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: learned that your lungs can repair, and. 741 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 4: Apparently mine did. 742 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know I would go places that following 743 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: a hound dog. I wouldn't even think of going there. 744 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: But it was because the dogs and I were doing 745 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: this together. Let me put it like this, but the 746 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: numbers of lines that I caught, I left let a 747 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: lot of them go, just let them go. Same with bears. 748 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: I let hundreds of bears go. I mean hundreds. It 749 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: was all about dog honting. There's a lot of times, 750 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: you know, I keep telling myself, no paint, no gain, 751 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 1: you know, But if I could hear those dogs, I'm 752 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: going to them. And there was one time in my 753 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: entire career that my dogs treat a bear and I 754 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: didn't go to him. I started to go to him, 755 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: but I had two guys with me. This is up 756 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: in Shasta County. They treat a bear in this place 757 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: called Hellsol that's with the name of that canyon. And 758 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: that canyon is so steep that you had to hang 759 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: on to stuff as you're going downhill, otherwise you're going 760 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: to just start sliding. 761 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 4: Then you go all the way to the bottom. 762 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: And from where the where we started, the bear, they 763 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: dropped off in a canyon that is about fifteen hundred 764 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: feet in elevation into the bottom of straight down and 765 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: treated about a thousand feet up the other side. And 766 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: we started going down to these dogs that had two 767 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: guys with me. One of them was really heavy set, 768 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: and I knew that Hugh was never going to get there. 769 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: The dogs were just blowing the top out of this 770 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: tree and across the canyon. From where we were standing 771 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: to where those dogs were actually trim we could not 772 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: have been a thousand feet through the air apart from 773 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: each other. And so I asked these guys, I said, 774 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: what's going to happen if we get to the bottom, 775 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to get back to the 776 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: up to the top, because if you can't, there's no 777 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: sense going down there. And they told me, they says, 778 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: we'll never make it. So I started yelling and I 779 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: fired my rifle a couple of times, and it's really 780 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: surprised me. I don't remember how many dogs I had, 781 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: and I probably I usually I usually had about four. 782 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: I liked to during the embarrassed season, I like to 783 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: have no less them three and usually about four. 784 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 4: I'd rotate the dog. 785 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 3: You could catch dogs. You can catch bears with three, 786 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 3: four or five hounds. 787 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I'll tell you a little about my philosophy 788 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: on that. But anyways, the dogs came to me and 789 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: I was totally shocked that they quit and came across 790 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: that canyon. But as we got out of there, you know, 791 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: when it comes to numbers of dogs, Willi's butt off. 792 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: He's a lion. He was a guy of excuse, went 793 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: to god. He was a government hunter, but he also 794 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: guided people as well, and he's he trapped for coyotes. 795 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,280 Speaker 1: He uses dogs for lions and bears. Stop killing lions 796 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: and bears. And he told me early on, he said, 797 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: if you have three or four dogs that can't catch 798 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: a bear, you don't need more, you need new ones. 799 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, on that to be true. 800 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 2: What Ed is saying isn't wrong. But as you take 801 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 2: a wider look at America, every region is different, and 802 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 2: in some places bears are harder to tree than others. 803 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 2: My buddies and houndsmen in the East would find a 804 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 2: reality out there that's way different, and they typically need 805 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,879 Speaker 2: more dogs to consistently tree bears. 806 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: But you know, there is something I'd like to say 807 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: that I haven't hundred hounds since well one hundred. With 808 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: Jim Bridges. One on one time up in Susanville that 809 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 1: was nineteen ninety five, we caught a bear and let 810 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: it go, of course, but I didn't. I haven't had 811 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: hound since the late nineteen eighties, and I kind of 812 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: burned myself out. 813 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 2: How long did you? Just to give an overview? So 814 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 2: you started, you started guiding in what year and ended 815 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 2: in what year? 816 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 4: Okay? 817 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: I started guiding in nineteen sixty six and in nineteen 818 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,720 Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies I quit guiding. I didn't quit hunting, 819 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: I quit guiding. 820 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 2: Ed's story of struggles starting from zero and ascending to 821 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 2: becoming an expert in his field is interesting and inspiring, 822 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 2: But the thing that stands out to me is simple. 823 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 2: It's just hard work to be good at anything. Everyone 824 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 2: has challenges to overcome, and it's in those challenges that 825 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 2: we find who we are. Challenge gives us identity. How 826 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 2: we deal with those challenges determines what our name is. 827 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 2: It's my hope that we never lose grit, determination, and 828 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 2: drive towards the things that seem most out of reach 829 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 2: to us. What I didn't hear inside of Ed's story 830 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 2: was excuses. Today it seems like a lot of people 831 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 2: have a lot of excuses, including me at times, but 832 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 2: I refuse to let those things define me on a 833 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 2: lot of inspiration from Ed's story, and I hope you 834 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 2: have too. You can find this book by searching for 835 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 2: Trained by a Hound Dog by d Vance. 836 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 3: I really thank ed for this. 837 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 2: Story, and don't forget California completely lost their rights to 838 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,399 Speaker 2: hunt lions and run bears with hounds. We can't ever 839 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 2: take for granted what we've got. We're living in the 840 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 2: glory days, and we've got to continue to fight for 841 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 2: our rights. 842 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 3: As hunters and conservationists. 843 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for listening to bear grease 844 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 2: to Brent's This Country Life podcast Into Lakes Backwoods University. 845 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live.