Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Hey, it's Jake. We've been hard at work on season
Speaker 2: four of deep Cover. I can't say much about it yet,
Speaker 2: but I will tell you this, it's a story you
Speaker 2: won't want to miss. We'll be releasing it this spring.
Speaker 2: But today we're back with an update on a story
Speaker 2: from season two.
Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty two, we released a series called
Speaker 1: Camouflage Bias, where we shared the story of Ronnie Kerascillo,
Speaker 1: a man who is loosely connected to a case that
Speaker 1: we covered in deep Cover season two, Mobland. Today we're
Speaker 1: releasing this special bonus episode with an update on Ronnie's
Speaker 1: case because there's some big news. If you haven't heard
Speaker 1: the original episodes, you can go back and listen now.
Speaker 1: We just re released them in our feed, so they're
Speaker 1: the most recent two episodes you'll see just before this one. Okay,
Speaker 1: here's the update. I want to start with giving you
Speaker 1: a brief refresher in Ronnie's case. In the late nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: Ronnie Carascio went on trial for the murder of a
Speaker 1: Chicago police officer named Terence Loftus.
Speaker 3: I've seen everybody running round, so I so Galgias fired
Speaker 3: a gun and isn't a breakof and they're gonna run.
Speaker 3: So I just fired four shots and I left. I walked.
Speaker 3: I didn't run, I didn't know I shot anybody. I went,
Speaker 3: walked up back in the house. I walked out the
Speaker 3: back door, and I left.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy eight, the judge in Ronnie's case ultimately
Speaker 1: found him guilty of murder. I spoke with Michael Deutsch,
Speaker 1: one of Ronnie's attorneys.
Speaker 3: The judge gave you two hundred to six hundred years.
Speaker 1: Wait, did you say six hundred years?
Speaker 2: Two hundred to six hundred years he gave him.
Speaker 1: Michael thought that the timing of Ronnie's sentence was suspicious.
Speaker 1: Here's why. He noted that just a few months prior,
Speaker 1: the judge, Frank Wilson, had allegedly taken a bribe and
Speaker 1: let a hitman walk free, a notorious hit man named
Speaker 1: Harry Alamann. Point being, Michael believed the judge wanted to
Speaker 1: make an example out of Ronnie to restore his own
Speaker 1: reputation as a tough judge.
Speaker 3: Wilson took ten thousand dollars to quit Harry Aloman, and
Speaker 3: now he needed what's called compensatory bias.
Speaker 1: Compensatory bias. That's this idea that a judge takes a
Speaker 1: bribe in one case and then, to avoid suspicion, punishes
Speaker 1: the hell out of another defendant in a separate case.
Speaker 1: It's also called camouflage bias. After the verdict came down,
Speaker 1: Ronnie began serving out his two hundred to six hundred
Speaker 1: year long sentence.
Speaker 3: Wake up and realize, man, I'm in trouble.
Speaker 1: Ronnie filed some early appeals that went well nowhere.
Speaker 3: That's my father. Don't buy no more appeals, don't find
Speaker 3: no more lawyers. I go to the par boarder than
Speaker 3: the season, and I shot this type of far away
Speaker 3: there's no attention in it, and I'll make parole parole.
Speaker 1: Ronnie and his legal team thought that this would be
Speaker 1: their best recourse, the best chance at getting Ronnie released,
Speaker 1: But as we reported back in twenty twenty two, that
Speaker 1: route has presented some challenges.
Speaker 3: How many times have you been before parole board. I've
Speaker 3: think thirty five times, at least thirty five times.
Speaker 1: In the forty seven years that Ronnie's been incarcerated. He's
Speaker 1: come close to being granted parole a few times. He's
Speaker 1: even come within one vote of being set free, but
Speaker 1: it hasn't happened, in part because there's been stiff opposition
Speaker 1: from the police unions. Ronnie turned sixty five last year.
Speaker 1: He spent nearly all of his adult life serving out
Speaker 1: this sentence, but he's never given up hope that one
Speaker 1: day he might be released. In this episode, we'll cover
Speaker 1: Ronnie's latest parole hearing, and we'll hear an update from him,
Speaker 1: because since we last spoke with him, his story has
Speaker 1: taken a very big turn. I'm Jake Calpern and this
Speaker 1: is deep Cover. The last time I spoke with Ronnie,
Speaker 1: he was still in prison and hoping that his next
Speaker 1: parole board hearing would finally work out.
Speaker 4: These hearings are a very big deal. We bring seventy
Speaker 4: eighty people with us from Chicago to come and show
Speaker 4: support for the hearing, which takes place in Springfield.
Speaker 1: That's Jennifer Soble. She's the executive director of the Illinois
Speaker 1: Prison Project, a nonprofit that represents incarcerated people. She's represented
Speaker 1: Ronnie for the last few years when he appeared before
Speaker 1: the parole board.
Speaker 4: So you know, at five am, we all get in
Speaker 4: our cars, get in our buses, and our vans, and
Speaker 4: we piled them to Springfield.
Speaker 1: Jennifer and a gaggle of Ronnie's supporters show up at
Speaker 1: the hearing, and on that particular day, Jennifer had a
Speaker 1: special guest.
Speaker 4: The person sitting next to me who was going to
Speaker 4: argue that Ronnie should be released was Tom Breen, who
Speaker 4: prosecuted Ronnie in the first place.
Speaker 1: Tom agreed to help advocate for Ronnie's freedom. In fact,
Speaker 1: he told Jennifer that he expected and had hoped that
Speaker 1: Ronnie would have been paroled decades ago. So here was
Speaker 1: the prosecutor who'd put Ronnie in prison, now he was
Speaker 1: telling the parole board to let him out. Tom said
Speaker 1: that he was quote astounded that mister Karraschio hasn't been
Speaker 1: paroled yet. Tom Brain's attendance there that day was a
Speaker 1: big deal, But Jennifer told me what was even more
Speaker 1: striking was who wasn't at this meeting.
Speaker 4: The members of the Prisoner Review Board sort of started
Speaker 4: whispering to each other, and it became very clear, very
Speaker 4: quickly that something was wrong. There were no police officers,
Speaker 4: the Eternal Order of Police wasn't there. It was just
Speaker 4: us and Ronnie supporters.
Speaker 1: Remember, Ronnie had been convicted of the murder of a
Speaker 1: police officer, and representatives of the Fraternal Order of Police
Speaker 1: had followed Ronnie's case carefully. I'm not going to get
Speaker 1: into their stance in detail here, but if you're interested
Speaker 1: in more background, we included more on them in the
Speaker 1: original episodes about this case. Anyway, as you may recall,
Speaker 1: every few years when Ronnie was eligible for parole, they
Speaker 1: would pack into the hearing room to object to his release,
Speaker 1: except on that day when no one from the organization
Speaker 1: was there. It seemed like someone had forgotten to tell them.
Speaker 4: And so what the parole board did, over my strenuous
Speaker 4: objection is they I'm doing air quotes here. They bifurcated
Speaker 4: the hearing.
Speaker 1: The parole board decided mid meeting to bifurcate the hearing,
Speaker 1: split it in two, and here's how that played out.
Speaker 1: On that day, Ronnie's side made its case. Jennifer told
Speaker 1: the board that the teenager who entered prison over forty
Speaker 1: years ago was a different person now. She told them
Speaker 1: that he fully admits to his crime and that Ronnie
Speaker 1: has even been hand picked to move into a re
Speaker 1: entry center to prepare him for life on the outside.
Speaker 1: And then A few months later, the board convened again
Speaker 1: for a second meeting, one that ended up being well
Speaker 1: attended by the police union, and in the months in between,
Speaker 1: some people left the board, new members joined, new members
Speaker 1: who never heard from Jennifer or the prosecutor about why
Speaker 1: Ronnie should be granted parole, and in the end the
Speaker 1: result was still the same. Another dead end for Ronnie.
Speaker 4: Was an extremely frustrating hearing, and at the end of
Speaker 4: that hearing, the vote I believe was eight to one
Speaker 4: against parole. It wasn't even closed. I like, eternally the
Speaker 4: optimist was like, we're gonna get him out this year.
Speaker 4: I really had fate that we would be able to
Speaker 4: make this system work for Ronnie, and so that denial
Speaker 4: was a pretty crushing blow.
Speaker 1: Who breaks this news to Ronnie?
Speaker 4: I do. It was awful. It was really awful. But
Speaker 4: Ronnie has walked this line between optimism and realism for
Speaker 4: forty seven years and he was not surprised. I think
Speaker 4: he was extremely disappointed, and in like very like typical
Speaker 4: Ronnie fashion, He's like, onto the courts, let's get to
Speaker 4: the next So he was already ready to do the
Speaker 4: next thing.
Speaker 1: Ronnie's chances that parole seemed even slimmer than before. His
Speaker 1: legal team realized he needed a plan B, and in fact,
Speaker 1: they'd already been pursuing that plan B for some time,
Speaker 1: knowing full well that the whole parole board thing might
Speaker 1: never work out, and that Plan B was to use
Speaker 1: the courts to petition the state of Illinois to overturn
Speaker 1: Ronnie's original sentence. Ronnie's attorneys made the case that since
Speaker 1: he was barely eighteen at the time of the crime,
Speaker 1: that should be taken into consideration today. They i argued
Speaker 1: that he should be re sentenced not as an adult,
Speaker 1: but as a juvenile.
Speaker 4: People in this eighteen to twenty six twenty seven to
Speaker 4: twenty eight range are often called In the social sciences,
Speaker 4: they're called emerging adults because although they're physically vague and
Speaker 4: they often act a lot like adults, their neurocognitive development
Speaker 4: is not done.
Speaker 1: The state opposed a new sentence for Ronnie. Their argument
Speaker 1: was Ronnie had a shot at release parole, and as
Speaker 1: long as he did well, he shouldn't be granted a
Speaker 1: new sentence, and the court agreed with this. Ronnie's legal
Speaker 1: team appealed that decision. It took time, but Eventually, a
Speaker 1: panel of three judges heard their appeal. By then it
Speaker 1: was the summer of twenty twenty three. Ronnie had just
Speaker 1: been denied parole in that eight to one vote. After
Speaker 1: the bifurcated hearing that I just told you about, Ronnie's
Speaker 1: legal team argued that this latest denial was proof that
Speaker 1: he had no real shot at parole, and this is
Speaker 1: why he needed a new sentence.
Speaker 4: Ronnie just went before the parole board. He's never gotten
Speaker 4: out before, and now his book count is going down.
Speaker 4: He had this great hearing, he had the prosecutor who
Speaker 4: prosecuted him saying he should get out. Parole is not
Speaker 4: meaningful for Ronnie. For Ronnie, parole is a sham.
Speaker 1: The panel of judges heard Ronnie's appeal. They heard about
Speaker 1: his childhood, about his years in prison, and about the
Speaker 1: many times that he'd appeared before the Illinois Prisoner Review Board.
Speaker 1: And then one day they reached a decision.
Speaker 4: I'm in my office and I get an email from Chick,
Speaker 4: Ronnie's appellate layer, saying that the court has agreed with
Speaker 4: us that parole is meaningless in this context, that Ronnie
Speaker 4: should at least have the opportunity to be treated like
Speaker 4: a juvenile and that the matter was going to be
Speaker 4: remanded back to the trial court.
Speaker 1: What's the moment when it becomes clear to you that
Speaker 1: maybe this is going to happen.
Speaker 4: When the judge said, all right, well, let's get this
Speaker 4: on the calendar next week. He's waited long enough, That's
Speaker 4: when I knew. That's when I hoped, thanks for real.
Speaker 1: When the judge said let's get this on the calendar,
Speaker 1: he's talking about a new sentence for Ronnie as in
Speaker 1: it's time. We'll be right back. On October eighteenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, yet another hearing was held. The appellate court
Speaker 1: had thrown out Ronnie's two hundred to six hundred year sentence.
Speaker 1: The judge at this hearing will determine what his new
Speaker 1: sentence would be.
Speaker 4: It was absolutely packed was Ronnie's friends and families, but
Speaker 4: several members of the parole board who had been fighting
Speaker 4: for his release for years came to the hearing, which
Speaker 4: was just unbelievable. The hearing was short. Jos Maldonato had
Speaker 4: already heard hours and hours days in fact of testimony
Speaker 4: about how incredible Ronnie was. The judge rules from the
Speaker 4: bench and sentenced him to forty seven years, and the
Speaker 4: courtroom just exploded.
Speaker 1: Forty seven years. Ronnie had been incarcerated since nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: so this new sentence amounted to time served, meaning Ronnie
Speaker 1: would be released right away.
Speaker 4: People are crying. I was crying. I think all the
Speaker 4: words were crying. Ronnie was really still. I don't think
Speaker 4: that he had fully taken it in, or maybe wasn't
Speaker 4: ready to trust it until he was released, which happened
Speaker 4: later that day. Yeah, it was amazing. It was one
Speaker 4: of the most I asked things I've wetnessent apart.
Speaker 1: In late October of last year, I got a text
Speaker 1: from Ronnie's brother telling me that Ronnie was home. I
Speaker 1: couldn't quite believe it, not until I actually heard directly
Speaker 1: from Ronnie.
Speaker 3: Ronnie, Yes, sir, how are you well? I'm just my
Speaker 3: brain camera's just taken in off kind of new things,
Speaker 3: you know, started from scrash, like kindergarten or something.
Speaker 1: I spoke to Ronnie on the phone in late December
Speaker 1: and we talked about the lead up to his release.
Speaker 1: For the last year before getting out, Ronnie had been
Speaker 1: held in a lower security facility known as a re
Speaker 1: entry center.
Speaker 3: They placed me in there to get basically like re established,
Speaker 3: learn a little computers, learn how to say hello again.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're in a maximum setting for so
Speaker 3: many years, you basically lose out to say good morning
Speaker 3: or good afternoon.
Speaker 1: Ronnie told me that living in this re entry center
Speaker 1: was an adjustment. He'd spent decades in a maximum security prison,
Speaker 1: being told where and when to go now Here. He
Speaker 1: was for the first time checking a watch.
Speaker 3: You steady looking at your clock, What time is it?
Speaker 3: I was like, man, he just watches like a job.
Speaker 3: You know. I never never paid attention to a watch.
Speaker 3: It didn't matter. In a maximum setting Sunday three o'clock,
Speaker 3: five o'clock, you're just going around circles. But in the
Speaker 3: renswery center, you make your appointment and it helps you
Speaker 3: to be there.
Speaker 1: Ronnie was moved to this reentry center in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: It's a small and selective place designed for people who
Speaker 1: are on the brink of being released. But exactly how
Speaker 1: that might happen for Ronnie still remained elusive. Then one
Speaker 1: day Ronnie got a phone call.
Speaker 3: I was out in the yard and a councul ladies
Speaker 3: you know, me and her kind of cool. So she
Speaker 3: come run out there and she said, hey, I got
Speaker 3: a call from your your brother and he says to
Speaker 3: call home. She says, not an emergency, but you need
Speaker 3: to call home.
Speaker 1: Ronnie called his brother and he told him the news.
Speaker 1: The court had ruled in his favor. His two hundred
Speaker 1: to six hundred year sentence had been vacated. Then someone
Speaker 1: at the re entry center printed the decision for Ronnie
Speaker 1: to read.
Speaker 3: All it said was a sentenced vacator. When I seen
Speaker 3: when I when I seen that, I was like, oh man,
Speaker 3: you know six hundred years gone. I was like, whoa man,
Speaker 3: this is a you know, this is it.
Speaker 1: Ronnie understood what would happen next. He began to prepare.
Speaker 3: So I just passed everything out commissary, my tablet, whatever, lamps, radio, everything, TV.
Speaker 3: You said, fans, you raise her Stremmers. I'll take everything.
Speaker 3: I'm not coming back. It's over.
Speaker 2: Well, you gave away all your possessions that you had.
Speaker 3: I didn't take nothing but my bible, my photo album,
Speaker 3: and my legal papers. On than that. I didn't need
Speaker 3: none of that.
Speaker 1: On October eighteenth, twenty twenty three, Ronnie was released. The
Speaker 1: very same day he was resentenced. He walked out into
Speaker 1: the free world. A crowd of supporters greeted him. They
Speaker 1: waited hours, but really years.
Speaker 3: For this moment. All my brothers, my sisters, you know, friends, attorneys,
Speaker 3: a lot of people. People I've been in prison with people,
Speaker 3: I've been lived in prison with just a multitude of
Speaker 3: people waiting out there, a lot of people.
Speaker 2: That sounds like that could be kind of overwhelming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. Now
Speaker 3: you can't everybody's you know, you're hugging one after another
Speaker 3: just to see him. Some of them some people I
Speaker 3: haven't seen thirty years, and you know, seeing I know
Speaker 3: him as a young man. Now I'm looking and you know,
Speaker 3: we're all older. And he just laughed. He just having
Speaker 3: a good time.
Speaker 1: I asked Ronnie about that first night that he spent
Speaker 1: on the outside with his family.
Speaker 3: We just you know, sat around and you know, they
Speaker 3: was pizzas and donuts and just you know, juice, just
Speaker 3: talking and hugging on each other and just you know,
Speaker 3: we haven't sat on couches together since little kids, so
Speaker 3: just leaning on each other, laying on each other and
Speaker 3: just you know, just love.
Speaker 1: Ronnie told me, took turns catching up with people for
Speaker 1: hours and hours late into the night, you know, until.
Speaker 3: One or two o'clock in the morning. Finally a hey,
Speaker 3: you're gonna You're gonna lay down a little bit. So
Speaker 3: I was eating cough drops after cough jobs, losing my
Speaker 3: voice talking so much. That's what happened.
Speaker 1: We talked a bit about Ronnie's plans for the holidays
Speaker 1: and how he intends to spend his days now as
Speaker 1: a free man.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go back to the prison I came from
Speaker 3: because I started the program and there were other individuals
Speaker 3: called Credible Messengers mentorship program. Now I'm soliciting to the
Speaker 3: juvenile centers and the wardens to I want to walk
Speaker 3: into the facilities where the juvenile again men are and
Speaker 3: walk the yard with them or be in the gym
Speaker 3: with them, you know, to help them understand direction, because
Speaker 3: some of them guys already have sentences and they have
Speaker 3: to go to the prison. So I just want to advise.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 2: That kind of blows my mind, though, I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: It's hard to put myself in your mindset you'd actually
Speaker 2: want to step foot inside of prison again.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've been practicing Christianity for a long time,
Speaker 3: and I don't leverage God. But uh, I'm a walking
Speaker 3: grace or I understand walking into a prison system when
Speaker 3: I was eighteen years old with six hundred years, I
Speaker 3: understand them young men that are in that in that position.
Speaker 3: So it's bigger in me. It's not about my life.
Speaker 3: I did mine already, so now it's you know, reach him.
Speaker 1: Back years back, when Ronnie was still in prison, I
Speaker 1: asked him what he'd most look forward to doing if
Speaker 1: and when he ever got out. He said he'd just
Speaker 1: walk out into the backyard, look up at the stars,
Speaker 1: take a deep breath, and at last savor the feeling
Speaker 1: of being safe. Now, I asked him if you ever
Speaker 1: did this.
Speaker 3: So once I got to the house, it was nighttime,
Speaker 3: I didn't go to the back, but I just stayed
Speaker 3: in the front just looking around, just like wow, just
Speaker 3: peace and quiet. I just said, Hey, this is it.
Speaker 3: You could just see the peace. I said, Hey, it's Ober.
Speaker 1: Deep Cover is produced by Amy Gaines McQuaid and Jacob Smith.
Speaker 1: Our editor is Karen Chakerji, mastering by Jake Gorsky. I'm
Speaker 1: Jake Halpern