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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's Jake. We've been hard at work on season

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Speaker 2: four of deep Cover. I can't say much about it yet,

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Speaker 2: but I will tell you this, it's a story you

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Speaker 2: won't want to miss. We'll be releasing it this spring.

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Speaker 2: But today we're back with an update on a story

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Speaker 2: from season two.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty two, we released a series called

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Speaker 1: Camouflage Bias, where we shared the story of Ronnie Kerascillo,

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Speaker 1: a man who is loosely connected to a case that

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Speaker 1: we covered in deep Cover season two, Mobland. Today we're

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Speaker 1: releasing this special bonus episode with an update on Ronnie's

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Speaker 1: case because there's some big news. If you haven't heard

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Speaker 1: the original episodes, you can go back and listen now.

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Speaker 1: We just re released them in our feed, so they're

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Speaker 1: the most recent two episodes you'll see just before this one. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the update. I want to start with giving you

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Speaker 1: a brief refresher in Ronnie's case. In the late nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: Ronnie Carascio went on trial for the murder of a

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Speaker 1: Chicago police officer named Terence Loftus.

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Speaker 3: I've seen everybody running round, so I so Galgias fired

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Speaker 3: a gun and isn't a breakof and they're gonna run.

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Speaker 3: So I just fired four shots and I left. I walked.

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Speaker 3: I didn't run, I didn't know I shot anybody. I went,

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Speaker 3: walked up back in the house. I walked out the

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Speaker 3: back door, and I left.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy eight, the judge in Ronnie's case ultimately

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Speaker 1: found him guilty of murder. I spoke with Michael Deutsch,

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Speaker 1: one of Ronnie's attorneys.

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Speaker 3: The judge gave you two hundred to six hundred years.

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Speaker 1: Wait, did you say six hundred years?

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Speaker 2: Two hundred to six hundred years he gave him.

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Speaker 1: Michael thought that the timing of Ronnie's sentence was suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Here's why. He noted that just a few months prior,

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Speaker 1: the judge, Frank Wilson, had allegedly taken a bribe and

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Speaker 1: let a hitman walk free, a notorious hit man named

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Speaker 1: Harry Alamann. Point being, Michael believed the judge wanted to

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Speaker 1: make an example out of Ronnie to restore his own

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Speaker 1: reputation as a tough judge.

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Speaker 3: Wilson took ten thousand dollars to quit Harry Aloman, and

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Speaker 3: now he needed what's called compensatory bias.

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Speaker 1: Compensatory bias. That's this idea that a judge takes a

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Speaker 1: bribe in one case and then, to avoid suspicion, punishes

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Speaker 1: the hell out of another defendant in a separate case.

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Speaker 1: It's also called camouflage bias. After the verdict came down,

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Speaker 1: Ronnie began serving out his two hundred to six hundred

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Speaker 1: year long sentence.

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Speaker 3: Wake up and realize, man, I'm in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie filed some early appeals that went well nowhere.

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Speaker 3: That's my father. Don't buy no more appeals, don't find

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Speaker 3: no more lawyers. I go to the par boarder than

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Speaker 3: the season, and I shot this type of far away

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Speaker 3: there's no attention in it, and I'll make parole parole.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie and his legal team thought that this would be

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Speaker 1: their best recourse, the best chance at getting Ronnie released,

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Speaker 1: But as we reported back in twenty twenty two, that

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Speaker 1: route has presented some challenges.

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Speaker 3: How many times have you been before parole board. I've

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Speaker 3: think thirty five times, at least thirty five times.

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Speaker 1: In the forty seven years that Ronnie's been incarcerated. He's

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Speaker 1: come close to being granted parole a few times. He's

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Speaker 1: even come within one vote of being set free, but

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Speaker 1: it hasn't happened, in part because there's been stiff opposition

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Speaker 1: from the police unions. Ronnie turned sixty five last year.

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Speaker 1: He spent nearly all of his adult life serving out

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Speaker 1: this sentence, but he's never given up hope that one

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Speaker 1: day he might be released. In this episode, we'll cover

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Speaker 1: Ronnie's latest parole hearing, and we'll hear an update from him,

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Speaker 1: because since we last spoke with him, his story has

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Speaker 1: taken a very big turn. I'm Jake Calpern and this

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Speaker 1: is deep Cover. The last time I spoke with Ronnie,

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Speaker 1: he was still in prison and hoping that his next

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Speaker 1: parole board hearing would finally work out.

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Speaker 4: These hearings are a very big deal. We bring seventy

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Speaker 4: eighty people with us from Chicago to come and show

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Speaker 4: support for the hearing, which takes place in Springfield.

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Speaker 1: That's Jennifer Soble. She's the executive director of the Illinois

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Speaker 1: Prison Project, a nonprofit that represents incarcerated people. She's represented

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Speaker 1: Ronnie for the last few years when he appeared before

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Speaker 1: the parole board.

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Speaker 4: So you know, at five am, we all get in

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Speaker 4: our cars, get in our buses, and our vans, and

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Speaker 4: we piled them to Springfield.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer and a gaggle of Ronnie's supporters show up at

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Speaker 1: the hearing, and on that particular day, Jennifer had a

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Speaker 1: special guest.

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Speaker 4: The person sitting next to me who was going to

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Speaker 4: argue that Ronnie should be released was Tom Breen, who

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Speaker 4: prosecuted Ronnie in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Tom agreed to help advocate for Ronnie's freedom. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he told Jennifer that he expected and had hoped that

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Speaker 1: Ronnie would have been paroled decades ago. So here was

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor who'd put Ronnie in prison, now he was

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Speaker 1: telling the parole board to let him out. Tom said

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Speaker 1: that he was quote astounded that mister Karraschio hasn't been

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Speaker 1: paroled yet. Tom Brain's attendance there that day was a

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Speaker 1: big deal, But Jennifer told me what was even more

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Speaker 1: striking was who wasn't at this meeting.

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Speaker 4: The members of the Prisoner Review Board sort of started

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Speaker 4: whispering to each other, and it became very clear, very

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Speaker 4: quickly that something was wrong. There were no police officers,

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Speaker 4: the Eternal Order of Police wasn't there. It was just

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Speaker 4: us and Ronnie supporters.

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Speaker 1: Remember, Ronnie had been convicted of the murder of a

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Speaker 1: police officer, and representatives of the Fraternal Order of Police

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Speaker 1: had followed Ronnie's case carefully. I'm not going to get

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Speaker 1: into their stance in detail here, but if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in more background, we included more on them in the

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Speaker 1: original episodes about this case. Anyway, as you may recall,

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Speaker 1: every few years when Ronnie was eligible for parole, they

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Speaker 1: would pack into the hearing room to object to his release,

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Speaker 1: except on that day when no one from the organization

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Speaker 1: was there. It seemed like someone had forgotten to tell them.

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Speaker 4: And so what the parole board did, over my strenuous

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Speaker 4: objection is they I'm doing air quotes here. They bifurcated

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Speaker 4: the hearing.

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Speaker 1: The parole board decided mid meeting to bifurcate the hearing,

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Speaker 1: split it in two, and here's how that played out.

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Speaker 1: On that day, Ronnie's side made its case. Jennifer told

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Speaker 1: the board that the teenager who entered prison over forty

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Speaker 1: years ago was a different person now. She told them

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Speaker 1: that he fully admits to his crime and that Ronnie

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Speaker 1: has even been hand picked to move into a re

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Speaker 1: entry center to prepare him for life on the outside.

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Speaker 1: And then A few months later, the board convened again

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Speaker 1: for a second meeting, one that ended up being well

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Speaker 1: attended by the police union, and in the months in between,

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Speaker 1: some people left the board, new members joined, new members

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Speaker 1: who never heard from Jennifer or the prosecutor about why

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Speaker 1: Ronnie should be granted parole, and in the end the

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Speaker 1: result was still the same. Another dead end for Ronnie.

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Speaker 4: Was an extremely frustrating hearing, and at the end of

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Speaker 4: that hearing, the vote I believe was eight to one

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Speaker 4: against parole. It wasn't even closed. I like, eternally the

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Speaker 4: optimist was like, we're gonna get him out this year.

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Speaker 4: I really had fate that we would be able to

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Speaker 4: make this system work for Ronnie, and so that denial

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Speaker 4: was a pretty crushing blow.

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Speaker 1: Who breaks this news to Ronnie?

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Speaker 4: I do. It was awful. It was really awful. But

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Speaker 4: Ronnie has walked this line between optimism and realism for

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Speaker 4: forty seven years and he was not surprised. I think

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Speaker 4: he was extremely disappointed, and in like very like typical

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Speaker 4: Ronnie fashion, He's like, onto the courts, let's get to

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Speaker 4: the next So he was already ready to do the

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Speaker 4: next thing.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie's chances that parole seemed even slimmer than before. His

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Speaker 1: legal team realized he needed a plan B, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: they'd already been pursuing that plan B for some time,

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Speaker 1: knowing full well that the whole parole board thing might

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Speaker 1: never work out, and that Plan B was to use

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Speaker 1: the courts to petition the state of Illinois to overturn

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Speaker 1: Ronnie's original sentence. Ronnie's attorneys made the case that since

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Speaker 1: he was barely eighteen at the time of the crime,

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Speaker 1: that should be taken into consideration today. They i argued

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Speaker 1: that he should be re sentenced not as an adult,

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Speaker 1: but as a juvenile.

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Speaker 4: People in this eighteen to twenty six twenty seven to

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Speaker 4: twenty eight range are often called In the social sciences,

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Speaker 4: they're called emerging adults because although they're physically vague and

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Speaker 4: they often act a lot like adults, their neurocognitive development

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Speaker 4: is not done.

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Speaker 1: The state opposed a new sentence for Ronnie. Their argument

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Speaker 1: was Ronnie had a shot at release parole, and as

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Speaker 1: long as he did well, he shouldn't be granted a

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Speaker 1: new sentence, and the court agreed with this. Ronnie's legal

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Speaker 1: team appealed that decision. It took time, but Eventually, a

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Speaker 1: panel of three judges heard their appeal. By then it

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Speaker 1: was the summer of twenty twenty three. Ronnie had just

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Speaker 1: been denied parole in that eight to one vote. After

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Speaker 1: the bifurcated hearing that I just told you about, Ronnie's

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Speaker 1: legal team argued that this latest denial was proof that

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Speaker 1: he had no real shot at parole, and this is

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Speaker 1: why he needed a new sentence.

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Speaker 4: Ronnie just went before the parole board. He's never gotten

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Speaker 4: out before, and now his book count is going down.

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Speaker 4: He had this great hearing, he had the prosecutor who

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Speaker 4: prosecuted him saying he should get out. Parole is not

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Speaker 4: meaningful for Ronnie. For Ronnie, parole is a sham.

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Speaker 1: The panel of judges heard Ronnie's appeal. They heard about

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Speaker 1: his childhood, about his years in prison, and about the

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Speaker 1: many times that he'd appeared before the Illinois Prisoner Review Board.

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Speaker 1: And then one day they reached a decision.

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Speaker 4: I'm in my office and I get an email from Chick,

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Speaker 4: Ronnie's appellate layer, saying that the court has agreed with

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Speaker 4: us that parole is meaningless in this context, that Ronnie

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Speaker 4: should at least have the opportunity to be treated like

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Speaker 4: a juvenile and that the matter was going to be

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Speaker 4: remanded back to the trial court.

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Speaker 1: What's the moment when it becomes clear to you that

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Speaker 1: maybe this is going to happen.

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Speaker 4: When the judge said, all right, well, let's get this

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Speaker 4: on the calendar next week. He's waited long enough, That's

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Speaker 4: when I knew. That's when I hoped, thanks for real.

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Speaker 1: When the judge said let's get this on the calendar,

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Speaker 1: he's talking about a new sentence for Ronnie as in

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Speaker 1: it's time. We'll be right back. On October eighteenth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, yet another hearing was held. The appellate court

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Speaker 1: had thrown out Ronnie's two hundred to six hundred year sentence.

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Speaker 1: The judge at this hearing will determine what his new

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Speaker 1: sentence would be.

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Speaker 4: It was absolutely packed was Ronnie's friends and families, but

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Speaker 4: several members of the parole board who had been fighting

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Speaker 4: for his release for years came to the hearing, which

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Speaker 4: was just unbelievable. The hearing was short. Jos Maldonato had

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Speaker 4: already heard hours and hours days in fact of testimony

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Speaker 4: about how incredible Ronnie was. The judge rules from the

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Speaker 4: bench and sentenced him to forty seven years, and the

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Speaker 4: courtroom just exploded.

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Speaker 1: Forty seven years. Ronnie had been incarcerated since nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 1: so this new sentence amounted to time served, meaning Ronnie

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Speaker 1: would be released right away.

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Speaker 4: People are crying. I was crying. I think all the

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Speaker 4: words were crying. Ronnie was really still. I don't think

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Speaker 4: that he had fully taken it in, or maybe wasn't

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Speaker 4: ready to trust it until he was released, which happened

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Speaker 4: later that day. Yeah, it was amazing. It was one

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Speaker 4: of the most I asked things I've wetnessent apart.

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Speaker 1: In late October of last year, I got a text

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Speaker 1: from Ronnie's brother telling me that Ronnie was home. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't quite believe it, not until I actually heard directly

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Speaker 1: from Ronnie.

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Speaker 3: Ronnie, Yes, sir, how are you well? I'm just my

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Speaker 3: brain camera's just taken in off kind of new things,

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Speaker 3: you know, started from scrash, like kindergarten or something.

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Speaker 1: I spoke to Ronnie on the phone in late December

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Speaker 1: and we talked about the lead up to his release.

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Speaker 1: For the last year before getting out, Ronnie had been

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Speaker 1: held in a lower security facility known as a re

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Speaker 1: entry center.

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Speaker 3: They placed me in there to get basically like re established,

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Speaker 3: learn a little computers, learn how to say hello again.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you're in a maximum setting for so

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Speaker 3: many years, you basically lose out to say good morning

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Speaker 3: or good afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie told me that living in this re entry center

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Speaker 1: was an adjustment. He'd spent decades in a maximum security prison,

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Speaker 1: being told where and when to go now Here. He

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Speaker 1: was for the first time checking a watch.

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Speaker 3: You steady looking at your clock, What time is it?

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Speaker 3: I was like, man, he just watches like a job.

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Speaker 3: You know. I never never paid attention to a watch.

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Speaker 3: It didn't matter. In a maximum setting Sunday three o'clock,

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Speaker 3: five o'clock, you're just going around circles. But in the

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Speaker 3: renswery center, you make your appointment and it helps you

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Speaker 3: to be there.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie was moved to this reentry center in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: It's a small and selective place designed for people who

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Speaker 1: are on the brink of being released. But exactly how

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Speaker 1: that might happen for Ronnie still remained elusive. Then one

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Speaker 1: day Ronnie got a phone call.

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Speaker 3: I was out in the yard and a councul ladies

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Speaker 3: you know, me and her kind of cool. So she

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Speaker 3: come run out there and she said, hey, I got

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Speaker 3: a call from your your brother and he says to

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Speaker 3: call home. She says, not an emergency, but you need

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Speaker 3: to call home.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie called his brother and he told him the news.

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Speaker 1: The court had ruled in his favor. His two hundred

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Speaker 1: to six hundred year sentence had been vacated. Then someone

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Speaker 1: at the re entry center printed the decision for Ronnie

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Speaker 1: to read.

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Speaker 3: All it said was a sentenced vacator. When I seen

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Speaker 3: when I when I seen that, I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 3: you know six hundred years gone. I was like, whoa man,

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Speaker 3: this is a you know, this is it.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie understood what would happen next. He began to prepare.

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Speaker 3: So I just passed everything out commissary, my tablet, whatever, lamps, radio, everything, TV.

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Speaker 3: You said, fans, you raise her Stremmers. I'll take everything.

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Speaker 3: I'm not coming back. It's over.

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Speaker 2: Well, you gave away all your possessions that you had.

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Speaker 3: I didn't take nothing but my bible, my photo album,

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Speaker 3: and my legal papers. On than that. I didn't need

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Speaker 3: none of that.

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Speaker 1: On October eighteenth, twenty twenty three, Ronnie was released. The

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Speaker 1: very same day he was resentenced. He walked out into

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Speaker 1: the free world. A crowd of supporters greeted him. They

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Speaker 1: waited hours, but really years.

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Speaker 3: For this moment. All my brothers, my sisters, you know, friends, attorneys,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people. People I've been in prison with people,

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Speaker 3: I've been lived in prison with just a multitude of

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Speaker 3: people waiting out there, a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: That sounds like that could be kind of overwhelming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. Now

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Speaker 3: you can't everybody's you know, you're hugging one after another

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Speaker 3: just to see him. Some of them some people I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen thirty years, and you know, seeing I know

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Speaker 3: him as a young man. Now I'm looking and you know,

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Speaker 3: we're all older. And he just laughed. He just having

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Speaker 3: a good time.

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Speaker 1: I asked Ronnie about that first night that he spent

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Speaker 1: on the outside with his family.

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Speaker 3: We just you know, sat around and you know, they

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Speaker 3: was pizzas and donuts and just you know, juice, just

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Speaker 3: talking and hugging on each other and just you know,

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Speaker 3: we haven't sat on couches together since little kids, so

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Speaker 3: just leaning on each other, laying on each other and

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Speaker 3: just you know, just love.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie told me, took turns catching up with people for

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Speaker 1: hours and hours late into the night, you know, until.

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Speaker 3: One or two o'clock in the morning. Finally a hey,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna You're gonna lay down a little bit. So

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Speaker 3: I was eating cough drops after cough jobs, losing my

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Speaker 3: voice talking so much. That's what happened.

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Speaker 1: We talked a bit about Ronnie's plans for the holidays

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Speaker 1: and how he intends to spend his days now as

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Speaker 1: a free man.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go back to the prison I came from

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Speaker 3: because I started the program and there were other individuals

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Speaker 3: called Credible Messengers mentorship program. Now I'm soliciting to the

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Speaker 3: juvenile centers and the wardens to I want to walk

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Speaker 3: into the facilities where the juvenile again men are and

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Speaker 3: walk the yard with them or be in the gym

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Speaker 3: with them, you know, to help them understand direction, because

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Speaker 3: some of them guys already have sentences and they have

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Speaker 3: to go to the prison. So I just want to advise.

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Speaker 3: I can't.

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Speaker 2: That kind of blows my mind, though, I can't imagine.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to put myself in your mindset you'd actually

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Speaker 2: want to step foot inside of prison again.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've been practicing Christianity for a long time,

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Speaker 3: and I don't leverage God. But uh, I'm a walking

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Speaker 3: grace or I understand walking into a prison system when

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Speaker 3: I was eighteen years old with six hundred years, I

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Speaker 3: understand them young men that are in that in that position.

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Speaker 3: So it's bigger in me. It's not about my life.

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Speaker 3: I did mine already, so now it's you know, reach him.

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Speaker 1: Back years back, when Ronnie was still in prison, I

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Speaker 1: asked him what he'd most look forward to doing if

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Speaker 1: and when he ever got out. He said he'd just

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Speaker 1: walk out into the backyard, look up at the stars,

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Speaker 1: take a deep breath, and at last savor the feeling

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Speaker 1: of being safe. Now, I asked him if you ever

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Speaker 1: did this.

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Speaker 3: So once I got to the house, it was nighttime,

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Speaker 3: I didn't go to the back, but I just stayed

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Speaker 3: in the front just looking around, just like wow, just

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Speaker 3: peace and quiet. I just said, Hey, this is it.

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Speaker 3: You could just see the peace. I said, Hey, it's Ober.

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Speaker 1: Deep Cover is produced by Amy Gaines McQuaid and Jacob Smith.

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Speaker 1: Our editor is Karen Chakerji, mastering by Jake Gorsky. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jake Halpern