WEBVTT - The Onion Knight Ft. Ben Collins 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:03.560 All Zone Media. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.640 Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zetron. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:23.720 Also on April twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, Geomedia, the 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.920 private equity project best known for running websites like Deadspin 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.920 into the Ground, announced that it was selling satirical news 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:34.240 newspaper and website The Onion to a company called Global Tetrahedron. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.519 Though you knew it at the time, Global Tetrahedron was 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.720 an entity run by former NBC News This Information reporter 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.000 Ben Collins, funded by billionaire Jeff Lawson, best known for 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.960 founding Twilio. As a note, global Tetrahedron is a reference 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.120 to the company of the same name from The Onion's 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.400 anthology book Our Dumb Century. In one of the first 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:58.840 bits of good news I've had to share on this show, 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.040 The Onion is now on by somebody who has not 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.399 only done a job in journalism, written things, researched things, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.920 and worked in a news organization that didn't burned to 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.680 the goddamn ground. He also cares about the future of 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.800 the newspaper, best known for headlines like study reveals babies 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:20.240 as stupid, jurisprudence, fetishists get off on technicality and Mark 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.319 Zuckerberg worried Facebook listening to him after being pushed shirt 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.200 that says I just laid off ten thousand employees. Today, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.840 it's my immense pleasure to be joined by the Onion's 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:41.400 new CEO, Ben Collins. Okay, so how did this deal 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.600 to buy the Onion actually come together? 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.720 Okay? So I was it was January. I just quit 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:53.800 my job right for Christmas, and I was writing a 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.920 book about like some of the biggest pieces of shit 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.760 on the planet Earth, right, you know, the Elon Musks 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.720 and the Jim Jordan's of the world. And I was 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.520 like super depressed, and I was like I was platting 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:06.520 through it, but it wasn't. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:09.200 Having fun. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.040 Yeah, exactly, I have no idea. I don't even know 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:12.920 if it was good. I think it probably was all right, 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.680 but like the process was horrible. And I read an 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:21.000 ad week that the Onion was aggressively for sale, and 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.359 I had known, and I remembered that Elon Musk had 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:28.400 once tried to buy the Onion, right he wound up 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.560 poaching a bunch of staff and started this thing called Thud, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.800 which never really launched. He from what I've heard from 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.480 some lore in the office, by the way, is that 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.120 they after about a year. He didn't think anything that 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.360 these former Onion writers wrote was funny, and this was 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.920 like a peak era of the Onion. So he just 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.399 showed them away off campus, off the Tesla campus where 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.119 he had originally bought them for the SpaceX campus and 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.000 into this like weird remote area and then it just 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:02.080 died a like a and it died the death of 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.120 like a guy dying in the desert in a video game. 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.040 That's what happened. So I was worried that he was 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.880 gonna try to snap it up or like the AI 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.720 all the people who buy these like websites and turn 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.560 them into like weird zombie AI farms. 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.920 I thought that was Yes, that seems pretty likely. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:23.960 Yeah, And I really, I really did not want that 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.040 to happen. Like the Onion was a very important part 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.560 of my life grown up and kind of remains that way. 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.560 And it's like the last, the last American news institution 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.120 that has been completely unsullied, I would. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:41.360 Say, and also a rare good hit rate for decades. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.360 There's not really been a. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.880 Slump, Yeah, exactly, even in the last year when all 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.520 these other news organizations are really fumbling the bag. It's 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.240 like tripping over themselves. They weren't, you know, they were 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.080 very clear about AI and Gaza and all these other 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.360 things that people fell into, like some really weird rhetorical 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.640 traps for themselves that they are now having a hard 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.120 time getting out of the Onion and didn't do that. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.480 Like one of their headlines from last year was a 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.400 guy who sucks at being a person sees he's huge 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.800 potential in AI, which is just fucking right. It's just 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:15.200 really good. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:15.480 Yeah. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:20.960 Anyways, Yeah, so I I'd read in adweek that it 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:27.080 was very for sale and I put on Blue Sky. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.320 I said, uh, does anybody want to save the Onion? 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.040 I have like six hundred dollars or something like that, right, 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.360 And uh, my friend Leela Wilson, who lives in Chicago, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.880 was like, the Onion's like a Chicago institution. Like if 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.839 this thing goes away, it's like a really bad thing. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.960 Like who do we call to make sure somebody decent 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.680 ends up with this thing? So I was like, I 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.839 don't know, let me just make some calls and I'll 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.360 see what it costs, I guess, or see what it is, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.440 see what's going on with it, and I just kept 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.359 making phone calls. I just kept going. I just kept 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.440 like being like, how would I like if we were 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.480 to buy this, Like, how would we make money? How 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.160 do they make money? Now? Do they make money? Now? 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:07.400 What's going on with this thing? 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:08.480 Right? 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.080 And a couple of weeks later, we were just in 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.000 the thick of it, Like eventually we had we had 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.160 collected enough people who knew a rich guy or you know, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:23.039 to get in the equation. And then there was you know, 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.120 there was this guy named Jeff Lawson who had just 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.520 left Twilio just like a company, and he kind of 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.279 felt the same way about it that we did. And 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.800 we had you know, we just kind of like constantly 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.480 were in assurance to each other that neither of us 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:38.919 was going to mess this up, that we're all going 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.000 to like leave the processes be at the onion, that 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:48.080 it makes it great. And then it just happened, like, 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.919 I you know, within I think like eight weeks, it 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.280 went from like a hilarious joke in my house, like 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.280 I was telling my girlfriend, I was like I'm gonna 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.920 buy the onion, hah whatever, and then in like two 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.880 weeks it was like I think I'm gonna actually do this. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.120 I think this might actually happen, and then in eight 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.000 weeks it was pretty much done. Like we were that 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.040 we were fighting off some last second bitterers who were 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:08.040 particularly grulish, but. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.480 Like any clarity on who those might be. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:20.159 They're in the news. Oh okay, yeah, it's you know. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.240 But so perhaps a very direct question is, so, Jeff Lawson, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.760 he's a billionaire, ran Twilio, quite rich. How are you 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.600 going to avoid what has happened with a lot of 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.159 tech investor projects, because for the most part, they've been 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.960 pretty good, but generally when they start, like Jeff Bezos 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.360 has not really backed the Washington Post, he doesn't seem 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.680 to feed it more money, and the same kind of 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.640 like Benioff buying time and Mark Benioff's CEO of Salesforce 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.560 brought time a few years ago, and he again does 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:53.919 not seem to have like he doesn't seem to have 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.520 messed with it, but he also doesn't seem to have 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.080 helped it. What's the plan with Jeff Lawson. 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:00.720 Well, we're gonna do off a shair and I'm going 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.440 to make sure that the staff, if it does well, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.479 they get money for us. Like it's just straight up 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:08.680 what it is. You know, he used this as a 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.280 public like a public interest thing, just as we do that. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.800 It's an American institution, and if it dies, it sucks. 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.880 Like it's bad for everybody. Need we need somebody to 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:22.000 just aggressively need all bad people. And like this is 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.160 not his money making enterprise. I think he already did that, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.960 but like it is to Yeah, the goal of the 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.760 goal of that is to make an environment where writers 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.880 can make money for doing good writing. Like it's just 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:38.960 a weird idea that we had. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.080 Yeah, So with that in mind, what's the actual plan 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:44.960 to make money? How does it make money now? And 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:46.160 what's the plan for the future. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.320 Okay, cool, I actually want to talk to you about 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.400 this because this like fits with how we talk about 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:51.960 stuff you and I like when we text abouts. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.120 Yeah, I think it's important. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.440 So the way the Onion used to make money under 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.560 geomedia is basically one way. It's programmatic advertising. So programmatic 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.400 advertising is this horrible thing that sort of ate the 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.600 Internet and sort of ate our politics in the world. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:10.920 It's all those like you know, those like one weird 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.160 trick ads and. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.080 Yes, they're currently all over the bottom of the page. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.640 Yeah, when people think of in shitification. This is probably 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.480 what they're thinking about right right, and that's how they 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.880 make money right now. And I now on the other 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.440 side of this, I get it right. If you were to, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.680 you can run a business like this where it's really 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.640 low margins and you know, you have a small staff, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.520 and on top of that, basically you just keep running 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.400 websites where that's if you're updating it a little bit, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:44.599 you'll remain at the top of Google or whatever. And 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.640 then you get enough of these impressions so that these 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.680 horrible ads just keep, you know, showing up literally tenfolds 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.959 sometimes like one hundredsfold. 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.360 Underneath, and they get paid by the impression rather than 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:56.960 the click. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.720 Through, right exactly. So like it's it's like it would 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.840 be like if if every car that drove by a 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.319 billboard there was a you got paid for an eyeball. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.280 Right, every thousand cars. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.880 Right exactly, And then you get paid even more obviously 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.120 if somebody clicks on that. So the incentive structure is 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.920 bad to begin with, but then the incentive structure from 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.520 the person selling the thing on your website is even worse. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.920 So it's just like, can I tell you my favorite Programmac? Advertising. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.600 Please do Larry Bird Wife ad one. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:32.640 Second Larrybirdwife ad dot com. Oh, yes, I know the 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.040 one we're gonna I'll put a link to it in 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.000 the episode notes. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.680 Okay, I do want to Can I read it to you? 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:40.640 Please? Don't? Please read it to me. 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:48.560 It is meet Larry Bird's Repulsive Wife. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.600 Which is not an onion headline, right, that's an actual 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:58.120 programmatic clickbait advertising. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.520 You click on it, that's exactly what says it is. 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.040 It's them making fun of how this woman looks. And 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.439 she's not repulsive, by the way, but that's just. 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.640 One of the most things, and that's an automatic is 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.120 that it's I guess it was before AI generation that 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:12.760 came out, So there was a guy who was like, 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.760 you know who, you know, I'm gonna take the boots 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.440 to today that reports ugly wife. I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:19.560 take it down a few pegs. 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.080 Yeah, it's the twenty twenties, you know what it's time for. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:29.280 All the strame busted was just Jesus. But that's the 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.920 thing when you get websites and you can even see 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.240 it on big ones like NBC. I have mentioned this before. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.120 These programmatic ads are everywhere like outbring things. There's on 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.360 CNN as well, so you'll get like international news, international 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.200 news politics, and then the thing about how you're hearing 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.160 age should be better and you can buy them from 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.640 a special website that's full of spyware, and it's just crazy. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.600 And this is most of the media. But what do 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.400 you what are you gonna do with the onion though? 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.280 Because yeah, and I don't want to say, by the 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.160 way that design language of that sort of thing that 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.880 sort of made itiness and and how how they even 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.760 physically look. You see places like The New York Times 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.760 sort of copy that because people are used to that, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.520 the design language of trumbox ads. They're called chum boxes. Yeah, 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.600 and it just makes everything worse. Our politics sort of 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.640 sound like that now. The way people talk sort of 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.240 sound like meat Larry Bird's repulsive wife. Like that's just 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.080 sort of how things. That's how it feels like American life, right, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.400 And I it can't be good. It just can't be good. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.760 So how are we gonna make money? Great question in 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.800 a diverse way that is not that like there there's 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.760 a several part strategy that we have. First of all, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.600 we're gonna I don't want to like blow our load 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.320 here a little bit, but we're gonna have a membership 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.280 that maybe brings back the newspaper. Yeah, it's cool and 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.560 we're excited about it. We're going to sell direct ads, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.640 so like ads that want to like companies want to 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.920 directly deal with us, We're going to do that. We're 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.320 not going to be like a fifth party vendor to 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.160 some to scaringple on the internet. Companies, I want to 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:03.400 deal with this. We want to deal with them too. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.040 And like, uh, that's another thing. There's a thing called 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.240 we're basically we're going to write some ad copy where 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.120 we are also aware that there's there hasn't been a 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.440 funny super Bowl commercial in like fucking fifteen years, so 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.120 like we do want to be in that business too. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:17.600 And uh so. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.440 Wait, would you be making super Bowl commercials for other people? 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.360 Well, we'll be making ads for other people. Yeah, right, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:30.480 And and there's several different ways we can go with 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.120 video that we're currently trying to figure out the very 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.640 best one. But all of those ways sort of you know, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.040 they bring in cash, and then there's, uh, there's just 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:40.640 a lot of ways to do this. And we're going 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.520 to do a little bit of everything. But like I 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.280 would say, like the number one way you can do it, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.720 it's like subscribe to us when we launch our membership product. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:48.360 But we just want to be really good, So we 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.160 want the staff to own it and be you know, uh, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.280 and we want we want to hear more feedback of 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.720 what people want in a membership from us in the newspaper. 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.520 So that's where we're that's we're just taking our. 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:10.480 Time with that. So perhaps this is one you can't 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.240 necessarily speak to yet. But how much time do you have? 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.680 How has Lawson been very clear that this will take time, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.120 because that feels like the biggest failure of every digital 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.439 failed digital media product that I've seen the last few years. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.840 Yeah, well, I mean he's patient with the idea that 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:29.440 this does take time. You get to build out a 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:34.720 thing that you can't in what it's been six weeks 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.920 or something. You can't just like completely flip around an 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.760 entire business, and like we have to get out of contracts, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.440 we have to get out of whole thing. Like there's 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.200 a bunch of stuff that we have to do to 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:46.800 get out of that previous business. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.600 That also you're actually unbuckling parts of the Geomedia the Hydra. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:54.640 Yeah, I mean, like you know, we're in their old 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.720 building where there's just a lot of stuff that you 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.240 have to do. We had to set up a whole 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.560 you know, to set up a whole business with health 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.200 insurance and all the other stuff that you would do 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.000 when you buy a business, and and a lot of 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.160 it is unlearning stuff, right where part of part of 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.560 the previous business. Right, If you are doing programmatic advertising 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.719 as your primary business, you're doing slide shows all day. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.640 You are telling people, you're driving people to a slide 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.240 show and telling them to click the button over and 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.600 over again to get a new, freshly set life, freshly 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.360 created set of ads. Right. And we have to get this, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:32.000 you know, it's demoralizing to the staff. We have to 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.440 get them in the mindset that like maybe the best 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.240 joke is a TikTok video, Maybe the best joke is 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.880 is a whole newspaper. Maybe it's a physical object, Like 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.360 how do we actually satirize our current times right now 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.240 and not just you know, the internet from ten fifteen 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:55.280 years ago. Getting that mindset with the writer's room is important, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.160 And until six weeks ago, they didn't. They had no 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.240 idea who was going to take over this place, or 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:03.840 if anybody who was going to take over, it would 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.960 keep them on board. So I think we're, you know, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.600 part of us just winning their trust and we're well 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:11.080 on our way. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.040 That's cool, And you mentioned kind of expanding the media 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.880 side as it's weird. Over the years, the Onion went 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.040 from having probably some of the freshest media content to 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.360 being mostly written. There was a time when you had, like, 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.080 I don't know any listeners who remember this, don't I have 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.000 used for this, but Get Out of My Face was 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.840 one of the best comedy products of the last decades. 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.440 It was a sports show much like Around the Horn, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.520 except both hosts just completely hated each other and most 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.080 of the sport. But then it went away and it 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.960 felt like The Onion went very writing base, which is fine, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.680 it's good stuff, but so you're going to expand that then, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.080 right exactly. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.360 They Get Out of My Face day a segment where 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.280 I think it was called who should we assassinate? And 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.960 they would just pick a sportsfan athlete to assassinate. 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.680 I just remember one where it was just him screaming 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.360 about how Pennsylvania is a giant. It's a giant abandoned 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.680 parking lot and he couldn't wait to get home and 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.040 shave his entire body. Anyways, multimedia now, so you're going 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.680 to start expanding into video, I hope Again. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.600 Yeah, that's important to us because there's two reasons for that. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.520 First of all, the reason it was it became a 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.160 text heavy thing is because of the business of programmat advertising. 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.040 There's no they were just feeding that beast straight up. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:25.160 So we don't want to get out of that and 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.960 do bigger things. Second of all, we've accidentally developed this 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:36.200 massive fan base among the kids because in the last year, 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.800 if you watched CNN or MSNBC, or if you read the 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.440 New York Times or something and you're twenty two years old, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.240 you were just getting fucking yelled at by old people 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.400 like that was it? That's just what was that kind 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.920 of a Yeah, it was like your feelings aren't valid 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.920 and literally get off my lawn. That's what they were 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:52.920 saying to that, right, that was right. That's been the 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.560 last year of coverage. And we weren't like that, like 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:01.280 we you know, we've we've said, first of all, your 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.720 feelings are valid, you also may be right, and also, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.520 you know, there are a lot of parallels to previous 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.680 parts in history where the onion also stood up when 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.840 it was unpopular. For example, like during the Iraq War, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.200 they stood up all the time. You know, they back 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.400 peaked Dixie Chicks era. They were they had the same 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.720 political but they were thankfully the end was a little 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.320 bit funnier, so they got away with it right. And 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.119 that sort of mirrored a lot of the Gaza stuff 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.640 over the last year or two where they stood up 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:36.720 early on. Can I read you a headline? The headline 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.040 is the Onion stands with Israel because it seems like 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:40.159 you get in less trouble for that. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:46.720 That's is the most cutting media criticism you're rating. 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:52.960 Yeah, and like and and by the way, with trans coverage. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:54.960 Ahead with guns as well. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.320 But it was a it is journalism's sacred duty to 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.640 endanger the live of as many trans people as possible. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.200 This was like in the middle of the New York 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.720 Times every day just being like trans kids don't deserve 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.000 to be alive. Every single day when we do an 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:09.520 op ed, that. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.679 Says and as on the side, listeners, this is a 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.639 pro trans podcast. If you are anti trans, delete this 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.080 podcast go fuck yourself anyway, Just moving on. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.119 No, I'm in the Yeah, obviously the mass shooting stuff 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:28.000 where you know this happens to Yeah, there's no way 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:32.040 to prevent this. As only nation where this regularly happens, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.640 that is an iconic thing that we obviously repost every 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.680 time there's a major mass shooting, which is like every day, 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.439 and uh like there is nobody else that does this, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.000 and that's why we wanted this now. It's because when 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:52.600 all these other places sort of retreated back into being 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.080 really scared to to speak truth to power, they're actually 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.720 go they were like, no, fuck this, We're just gonna 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.320 keep making jokes and we're going to keep standing on 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.520 the side of people who are quite literally sometimes getting 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:05.399 murdered for no reason. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:12.320 Right And it's it's interesting, it's you are tangibly not necessarily, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.000 it's not even time the true it's just you're not 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.159 making any You're more making statements of comedic effect. But 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.840 it seems to be more bombed and fresh and focused 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.440 criticism than actual journalism right now. Why do you think 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.240 so many journalists are pulling their punches? And I mean 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.840 everywhere tech, politics, business, is it access or is it 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:31.520 something else? 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:34.920 I think in a lot of cases, it's just access 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.439 or pleasing their bosses who really care about access. I 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.360 think a lot of these places with the Trump stuff, 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:47.159 they decided the bosses decided the number one priorities that 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.680 you remain on the plane, that the campaign will keep 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.000 talking to you, that they will that you're not going 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.679 to piss them off enough, that we're not going to 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.240 be blackball or whatever, because the the fifty to fifty 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.040 journalism is to important. I think that's mostly it. And 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.360 I also think, like, I don't think they understand that. 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:11.280 I think so many times these people think that they 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:15.800 are the bastions of like purity and equality, and like 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.160 one side is this and this that the other side 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.920 is this, and they cannot be any truth. What they're 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.520 doing is actually really extraordinary, and not in a good way. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.320 It's extraordinary in the sense that this didn't actually happen 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.000 this way previously. They have been captured. They've been captured 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.800 in a political moment where they they where one side 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.720 has totally issued the concept of the truth. It didn't 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:41.520 used to work this way. People used to say that 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.119 if it was raining outside, they used to say it 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.280 was raining outside. Now it's right at these networks, whether 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.000 it's tech or it's politics. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.880 Or anything Walter related weather of them. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.760 Yeah, exactly. And also you know one one side of 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:58.080 the government insists it is not raining, right, and that's 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.320 like that that is that's it's new, like that's a 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.639 new kind of reportage in the sense that it sucks 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.160